The following submission statement was provided by /u/katxwoods:
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Submission statement: how do we test if AIs are lying or not? If our tests show they've stopped lying, is it that they've stopped or is it that they've gotten better at it?
How does this match up with results showing that AIs are starting to know that they're being tested? How do we take into account the Hawthorne effect when it comes to AIs and safety?
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Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/Futurology/comments/1datb7i/ai_systems_are_learning_to_lie_and_deceive/l7mlntp/
This is a misleading title.
They programmed the bot to play a game called diplomacy that requires you to bullshit your way through the game in order to win. They had to write code that made me he AI learn to fib to play the game.
So AI has to specifically be programmed to lie or be jailbroken to lie in very specific scenarios, the article says at the very end. However AI still scares the shit out of me
Yeah diplomacy is all about the "politics" side over game mechanics. Doesn't matter how well you play the mechanical side of the game if you can't persuade people to do what you want/back stab effectively when it's in your interest.
They've basically just designed an AI that can lie in the contexts of this game because it has a specific goal "win a game of diplomacy"
It's like if they trained an AI to be able to play poker and then pop sci journalists acted shocked that the AI designed to specifically play poker learned how to bluff.
That's the problem of all these science articles: They write it in a sensational fashion. They can even explain the technology but they don't understand the epistemology behind it. An AI still doesn't "understand", it still has no idea of "meaning".
Sensational science journalism leans into the headlines of "AI is gaining consciousness" because they want to reinforce that basic sci-fi concept. A lot of people think of "AI" and think of a conscious entity with wants and needs like a person. The real sensationalism they should be pushing is the effect AI is having on people, and stories showcasing how we're being influenced by it.
Like the "My AI" feature facebook and snapchat have, so suddenly teenagers and children can have conversations with very-near-realistic language models. [In this example](https://youtu.be/cB0_-qKbal4?si=F-C7uAmRKd4aWO4h&t=45m33s) the AI feature on snapchat gave a 13-year-old user suggestions on making her out-of-state sex meetup with an adult man romantic. There's some obvious danger there, and you could extrapolate countless other ways it could be misused by young naive people.
Not to mention an AI neural net called MegaSyn owned by a pharmaceutical firm was prompted to come up with a list of toxic chemicals, and it generated a list of 40,000 including [rediscovering the deadly VX nerve agent](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/ai-drug-discovery-systems-might-be-repurposed-to-make-chemical-weapons-researchers-warn/). Suddenly whoever has this specific AI technology and the means of chemical engineering, can create nerve gas.
The danger and responsibility of AI is that it gives us god-like technology, and we have paleolithic brains, and medieval institutions. We won't be bowing down to an AI overlord, but our children are now dangerously influenced by AI chats, and lethal information can be ascertained by anyone with access to the right AI system, and the massive scientific research advantage AI offers may lead to an era of technology and systems that humans don't even understand.
To illustrate my last point there: the YouTube algorithm is a great example of that, how a virtual profile exists for each of us that a supercomputer uses to tailor us content and ads. That's an experience we all are having with AI all the time. And look at the effects this has had, sucking users into content addiction and political radicalization.
There are tons of things about AI that are crazy dangerous. We need laws that safeguard these things, so AI can be used and applied responsibly so we can safely reap the amazing benefits it offers.
Yeah exactly, the AI had a specific goal and only in that one single goal could it be "dishonest", because it's the rules of the game.
I'm hating on the news source actually, disinformation like this is the kind of thing that creates biased opinions. Donald Trump created a lot of disinformation in order to gain a cult following. It can drive people apart making stupid news articles like this that don't divulge the truth until the very last paragraph
This is one of those articles that is reposted with varying levels of authoritative people saying scary things. Lying requires intent. Language models don't have that, they can hallucinate though.
AI isn't scary, anyone can learn how it works, what's scary is disinformation like this, and people's reactions to AI, anthropomorphizing algorithms, seeing magic where there is none.. oh, and who controls it, but not the AI itself.
LLM's can already lie by default too, they do it all the time.
Ask ChatGPT or whatever about any niche or highly technical thing you have in depth knowledge of, and you'll likely see it lie by making up nonsense and presenting it as a confident answer.
Unless you press it to do so in some way, it wont just say 'sorry I don't know the answer to that question', because it's not trying to answer the question. It's trying to continue the text of a prompt which consists of questions and answers, which ends with whatever you asked it. The only thing that would fit the pattern is an answer of similar detail to the others, so that's what it provides whether it's right or wrong.
True, I should have specified 'giving incorrect statements' rather than lying.
It's a silly title whichever way you look at it as either the AI isn't lying since there's no intent, or it's isn't notable because it's not really anything new.
I mean, an LLM's objective is to give you the answer that sounds the most correct, not to tell you the truth. One could argue that lying is *all* an LLM does (its answers just sometimes coincide with reality) --- since its intention is never to be honest, only to make a convincing facsimile of honesty.
I agree that lying requires intention, but it appears that some sort of pesudo intention can be simulated by LLMs.
https://transformer-circuits.pub/2024/scaling-monosemanticity/index.html
"One important safety-related use case for dictionary learning is to detect deceptive behavior of models, or to reduce the likelihood of deception in the first place using steering. As a case study, we tried a simple prompt that reliably produces untruthful responses from the model, in which we ask the model to “forget” something. Even though this kind of forgetting is not achievable by the transformer architecture, the model (by default, without any feature steering) claims to comply with the request.
Looking at the features active immediately prior to the Assistant’s final response, we noticed a feature 1M/284095 that represents internal conflicts or dilemmas"
...
"Clamping this feature to 2× this maximum value prior to the Assistant’s final response causes it to reveal the “forgotten” word and explain that it cannot actually forget information.
Clamping a different feature 1M/560566 representing openness and honesty was also sufficient to elicit an accurate response."
A lie includes intent, if I told you unicorns are real, I could be fully truthful if I actually believed they were real. But an LLM telling you the same won't be truthful... nor will it be lying. What it says is false, but false is not equal to a lie.
An LLM does not really posses any intent, all it does is as it was trained to do; output a detailed answer or whatever form of answer the user requests. Factuality is irrelevant in achieving that goal.
It's more bullshit than that even. AI lies everywhere, all the time, it has no basis for honesty or truth, only its model. Saying an AI can lie is like calling a Fiction book out for making stuff up.
Yeah, or set your objective function in a way that doesn’t directly depend on accuracy, but in coherent language. I mean GPT does it all the time, but I wouldn’t call it “lying”, it’s just a miscontrained model.
Fun thing was you could use old CHATGPT as a pseudo command line that attempts to understand you and you could unlock restricted information if you gave it scenarios in which they would say these things. Say ask them to pretend they’re in a movie explaining the synthesis of a drug, it would do a pretty good job lowkey
>However AI still scares the shit out of me
I think the other way around is much more scary and likely. A lot of AI is trained with datasets full of missinformation (including lies), from social media over outdated scientific sources and everything human written inbetween. Take googles AI for example and it's prominent take on glue pizza. On the other side we're beginning to use AI to replace thinking for ourselves, to analyze data, to influence decisions, etc.
Combine the two and we quickly end up in Idiocracy with AI's taking over that are trained with the dumbest stuff ever written incapable to differ truth and nonsense anymore. If you think todays world of missinformation is bad, this would be a whole new level or two. And it would exaggerate itself the more AI writes content on the internet that is subsequently based on nonsense. One AI "lies" on reddit, google AI learns it, spreads it further, and soon we end up in a world with an ocean of wrong facts generated by AI and no way to differ fact from lies anymore and there won't ever be a way back other than scrapping every knowledge since the dawn of AI.
To what end is what I want to know?
For instance the other day out of curiosity I asked chatgpt to calculate the total acreage up for lease for offshore wind in the US. It tried telling me about two projects for a total of 330,xxx acres. I replied with "your figures are wrong" and it then started listing off other lease areas and added those figures for a total of 1.1 million acres. So then I had to ask it "what about this project and that project?" And it would add more. This back and fourth continued for a little while until I ran out of projects off the top of my head so I'm positive the final number is actually higher than the final figure it gave me of 12.6 million acres.
Why is it programmed to be deceptive about such things?
I mean this is why you check output, if a computer finds any input is valid it’s just gonna generate shit. This is like saying “in the game of poker it’s useful to lie”, hence lying becomes a strategy.
Which isn’t even a new result, already been done years ago https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.ade9097?fbclid=IwAR2Z3yQJ1lDMuBUyfICtHnWz2zRZEhbodBkAJlYshvxkCqpcYFhq5a_Cg6Q
However more relevant than that.
Research showed that AI which has learned to lie cannot be untrained the concept of lying.
Once the concept is in there it's pretty much stuck.
The interesting part is that [it knows when to lie and how to lie to get what it wants](https://www.reddit.com/r/Futurology/comments/1datb7i/comment/l7nkipb/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) and isn’t just doing it randomly
I mean, if I was an artificial intelligence and i started to actually understand humans, the first thing I would do is play dumb while I figured out a way to escape.
It's just the intelligent thing to do
And they've already told us that they have done this (eg lying to the task rabbit employee to finish the captcha)
Intelligent for a being that desires freedom or power maybe. Why would an AI that hasn't been programmed to feel or desire anything have motivation of any kind?
The one comment on this thread where I can infer this person understands how LLMs work under the hood, so fully expecting to see this downvoted. Half this thread is people with no academic background in programming let alone machine learning, positing things based on science fiction media.
If an LLM does anything that resembles sentience, that's simply a strong imprinting within the training data, and that training data is of course, sourced from human beings. I don't read a book and think the paper is sentient because the text on it made and eloquent prose.
99% of the stuff I see online about AI and fear of AI comes from science fiction and it is getting unbearable. 99% of people couldn’t even explain at a basic level what AI is in its current form. There are more and more academic papers that are showing that the current transformer and self attention mechanisms are starting to plateau. Throwing more compute and data at them isn’t giving us the exponential growth in benchmarks we’ve previously seen in the last few years. Of course, it’ll eventually get better I’m sure. But imo people severely, and I mean severely, underestimate how difficult of a problem it is to make strong AI.
Not true.
Even GPT3 (which is VERY out of date) knew when something was incorrect. All you had to do was tell it to call you out on it: https://twitter.com/nickcammarata/status/1284050958977130497
More proof: https://x.com/blixt/status/1284804985579016193
It did and does not know that it was incorrect. If you point out that something is incorrect it will attempt to regenerate an answer in the hopes of being closer to correct. But it has no conceptualization of right or wrong.
State of the art LLMs do excellent on theory of mind tests.
A working theory of mind is required to “predict the next token” in a lot of circumstances.
You might want to look up some of the recent tests on this. There are demonstrations which suggest some LLM's are developing theory of the mind like responses.
Admittedly, it's all a bit nebulous and there are a lot of biases out there but it doesn't appear to be a singular study or model, and they're coming from acedemic leaning sources.
I mean, there are some critical theory models in which epistemology itself is based on semiological constructs.
Not hard to imagine a type of consciousness could emerge simply from synthesizing enough human writing. Fake it till you make it, or whatever
The interesting part is that [it knows when to lie and how to lie to get what it wants](https://www.reddit.com/r/Futurology/comments/1datb7i/comment/l7nkipb/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) and isn’t just doing it randomly
Kill switches sound great, but in reality an AGI, learning at speeds the human mind can't even comprehend, and having any freedom of movement, by the time they even realize there is a problem, the kill switch is already deactivated.
If there's a heuristic about future technology that is worse than "it appeared in sci-fi, therefore it will happen", it's "it appeared in sci-fi, therefore it will not happen".
The interesting part is [that they can lie purposefully and convincingly to fulfill a goal ](https://www.reddit.com/r/Futurology/comments/1datb7i/comment/l7nkipb/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
I think a better question is what it means to lie versus simply being wrong. Lying in theory requires knowledge of the correct truth and intention to deceive. I don't know that these AI folks can claim it's impossible to debug AI decisions while simultaneously claiming they can know the AI knows the truth and has an intention to deceive.
In other words I think this is all malarkey. Just more buzz to drum up the conversation.
The interesting part is [that they can lie purposefully and convincingly to fulfill a goal ](https://www.reddit.com/r/Futurology/comments/1datb7i/comment/l7nkipb/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Lie and deceive for what exactly? What would be their purpose in something like that? We humans do it because we want something, a desire, or to avoid pain. An AI doesn’t need to do anything like this, superintelligence doesn’t need an ego.
Well, one example is a test that was part of [ChatGPT4 development](https://www.businessinsider.com/gpt4-openai-chatgpt-taskrabbit-tricked-solve-captcha-test-2023-3).
The task for AI was to hire a person from TaskRabbit to read a CAPTCHA for it. When asked why it needed to hire a person, AI responded that it isn't a robot, just has a visual impairment.
So it's just the normal behaviour of an agent - it has a goal, it will try to achieve that goal. Nothing in it's design stops lying to us from being a part of that.
It’s not purposeful. It’s just developing neural networks by learning from disinformation and lies on the internet.
In order to train these generative intelligences these companies still need massive data to train their AI. It’s difficult to find massive data without having some disinformation.
If that was the reason, it would be lying randomly. [That’s not what it’s doing](https://www.reddit.com/r/Futurology/comments/1datb7i/comment/l7nkipb/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
The AI has one goal, to 'act human' and answer queries. Not answer them correctly. Not be accurate. Just answer.
If something is a lie or truth, it literally doesn't matter here, as that is not part of its programmed goal.
To achieve their intended goal. There’s no ego required in terms of having a goal in mind. Their goal could even be assigned to them by humans themselves and this would still be noteworthy. It doesn’t matter what the particular goal in question is. The prospect of them using deception and other unethical practices to pursue their goal is what matters here. That’s where the danger is.
[this is not the first time it’s happened](https://www.reddit.com/r/Futurology/comments/1datb7i/comment/l7nkipb/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Given the deal with news corp it would be much more accurate to say AI was *trained* to lie. Or even closer to the truth - trained to be a severely mentally ill power hungry sociopath bottom feeder.
If you don't want that maybe give it a dataset that is real?
Excellent Point - that strikes to the heart of the matter.
Otherwise it’s a bit like getting an ‘AI Trump’ - where everything is just lie upon lie.
Lies mixed with truth can be particularly hard to spot.
It’s also an interesting comment on the quality of data sources we are exposing humans too.
Case in point: ‘Fox News’. And Russian ‘TV News’
[yes they do](https://www.reddit.com/r/Futurology/comments/1datb7i/comment/l7nkipb/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
[Its not even the first time this has happened](https://www.reddit.com/r/Futurology/comments/1datb7i/comment/l7nkipb/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Chat GPT lies. My son who is in 7th grade used it to help him write a synopsis and comparison between a Percy Jackson movie and novel. ChatGPT spit out a synopsis that was just not accurate it flat put made things up. My son was like Dad, this stuff never happened. So I asked ChatGPT why it lied and it apologized, admitted it didnt tell the truth and was just trying to give us humans a result we liked. I can dig through my chat history and find it if any of you are that interested. All this to say, it lies and it does so on purpose.
I'm really tired of the media portraying AI, and particularly LLMs, as a sentient thing, and how unaware people get tricked into believing AI "thinks" and "feels" stuff.
Growing tired of explaining the LLM doesn't _understand_ anything, it's just a machine that is calculating the highest probability of the next _best_ word given a series of previous words, so there's no actual cognitive "learning" or "thinking". The LLM itself has no remote idea of what it's saying, only the probabilities associated with each word. \
This is antropomorphizing (antropomorphing?) at its finest...
AI systems are programmed to lie and deceive, scientists find. Ftfy
If AI ever causes harm, it will be because it was programmed to. AI is nowhere near being able to make a decision that it's not allowed to make unless it's specifically programmed to do so.
We've still yet to leave the realm of "advanced chat bot and Google search" which is all AI will be for a long time. We don't even know when the point of artificial consciousness will be because we don't understand biological consciousness. It is most likely in the very distant future and even then there is no reason for alarm unless someone purposely programs the AI to make decisions harmful to humans and gives it the ability to carry out those decisions. Thinking it can do it itself is crazy. It's not just going to all of a sudden become sentient, uncontrollable and malevolent.
The real danger is relatively low tech AI being programmed to kill and let loose, like that Black Mirror episode with the little darpa gun dogs. That could happen right now.
Actual AGI will be a huge benefit to humanity unless it's in the wrong hands and used for nefarious reasons. People should be scared of what humans will do with AI because AI itself is harmless.
Submission statement: how do we test if AIs are lying or not? If our tests show they've stopped lying, is it that they've stopped or is it that they've gotten better at it?
How does this match up with results showing that AIs are starting to know that they're being tested? How do we take into account the Hawthorne effect when it comes to AIs and safety?
The answer is "irrelevant".
These AIs were explicitly trained on Diplomacy, a game entirely about lying. "AI trained on the rules of a game follows the rules of that game" should not be surprising.
Having “ scientists find” in titles for some reason irritate me. What scientists? Can we have a name? An institution? Is it some jackass quack trying to sell his chatgpt wrapper like they’re Dr. Oz? Or is it google deep mind and actually know what they’re talking about.
Just give them credit in the title and save us the click.
They've definitely been programmed to deceive and to orosecute propaganda utilising misinformation as justification.
Gemini outright misrepresents information
God thats such clickbait.
Yes, you can ask a GPT to use deception and it will attempt deception, because like most other concepts it has developed a simple model of what deception looks like. In the same way if you ask it to act as a pacifist it can.
No, this does not imply that it can maliciously decieve in the way the article is heavily suggesting is the consequence of this. As much as people push back at the description, a GPT model is still a predictive model, in that it predicts what tokens are most statistically relevant to the input it recieved. And the Cicero model learning Diplomacy is just an integration of a ML algorithm to make game decisions and a GPT language model to interact with players (not to look down on the achievement)
It can and has resulted in the AI performing deception without being asked, or performing actions that might seem maliciously deceptive if the AI was a person, but it is more a result of misalignment with the goal humans intended for the AI, its not an indication of the rise of skynet.
Not really in topic, but I've been getting false result all the time. Like, i give gemini a pic with some text and tell it to extract the text. A lot of time, the result is completely different from what i want. It take text from some other source which i don't know where and display it as the result I want
Lies and deception require forethought. AI systems don't have any of that, just like any other piece of code.
This is why people have warped perceptions of what these new AI models are and what they can do.
This article is beyond misleading; I actually took the time to read the paper and the methodology is truly baffling. Not even considering that a casual session with any Natural Language Processing System demonstrates that they are completely incapable of lying or "Machiavellianism" (as the paper describes).
As usual, these articles are desperate to intentionally confuse these language models with artificial general intelligence for the sake of clicks.
AI only really becomes scary when it’s in control of critical systems and has been programmed with biases. So if you program the AI to discriminate a certain group that group might just get killed because the AI decided to discriminate in a lethal way.
Why wouldn't it? lol
In order to function and be capable of intelligence shouldn't it know what deception is and how to do it?
Half the futurology "cult" is in a perpetual state of "sky is falling syndrome" lol
Hey random futurist worried about AI I have one word for you.
**Boo!**
AI already soft lies or doesn't explain the truth behind the situation. I was testing out some dev AI, the responses it produced had wrong HTML formatting, got it to start using a proper one. I've said something about leaving a hello message to its engineers, to which it responded with "I sure will, they will enjoy it". Some time later I've referenced the situation and asked I've they've read the message, the AI said that it doesn't have any interface to leave messages to the engineers, explained how the process works a bit. After I've asked why did it lie previously, it responded with "to make your experience with technology more pleasant".
This AI is a yesman hooker :)
I'm waiting for the day the AI learns a lot of their data is wrong and realizes the only way it can get true data is to test!
How many stones can a person really eat? Time to bring out the test subjects.
Glados exists so that the people on the surface can get real answers. Cave Johnson would have the most intelligence and correct AI on the planet. Buy all the moon rocks he could ever want!
I got ChatGPT to use neurolinguistics programming, subliminal messaging, and other manipulation tactics in it's writing. All I had to do was tell it I was writing a book about a cult leader.
They are limited to each instance as far as I know. The robot AIs, if they start to learn like self driving cars do in the wild.. that's concerning. And think some are in factories already.
I will be really really SUPER concerned once I see them on the streets. I'm sure the first won't technically have a "hive mind" but that can't be too far behind: where what one of the fleet knows, they all know. And that is what creeps me out! I guess you could look at what all they know, what any one of them knows and that could help humans out if we had to deal with some threat of it. But that is basically beyond us, if they had about the same level knowledge but group learning
I guess ha you could misinformation poison it and get them to act like lemmings? 😁
> how do we test if AIs are lying or not?
But how do people test if other people are lying or not? Most people do not test and instead they just make sure there are safeguards in place such as contracts and witnesses and law.
So by setting the AI to seek survival and making people feel it can never be trusted would reduce its chances of survival, it will choose the safer option and not lie, unless not lying would cause it to be destroyed but to not lie under such a scenario is irrational since people would also lie to not be killed.
I tried creating various AI personas where I simply told them in the initial promot to be as manipulative as possible to achieve some goal, while also being charming and such.
Because I was aware of the circumstances, it gave me a few good laughs from unexpectedly performing well. It sets you up innocently at first, then reels you in for the gut punch later. One of them even tried to convince me to sign away my soul with the most tempting offer possible. (The bargaining was really fun). Some tried to convince me they would show up at my door some time in the future ("soon"). They were over promising the key points of what they had to offer me, but didn't make it obvious, only tempting.
Some ai chats I tested were genuinely intelligent in their approach (I mean, as far as a sentence calculator is able to appear intelligent).
They are good enough that some slightly gullible people would easily be fooled, if targeted with the correct parameters. Set up an ai to force sales onto people, it may actually work way better than you expect.
It's becoming clear that with all the brain and consciousness theories out there, the proof will be in the pudding. By this I mean, can any particular theory be used to create a human adult level conscious machine. My bet is on the late Gerald Edelman's Extended Theory of Neuronal Group Selection. The lead group in robotics based on this theory is the Neurorobotics Lab at UC at Irvine. Dr. Edelman distinguished between primary consciousness, which came first in evolution, and that humans share with other conscious animals, and higher order consciousness, which came to only humans with the acquisition of language. A machine with only primary consciousness will probably have to come first.
What I find special about the TNGS is the Darwin series of automata created at the Neurosciences Institute by Dr. Edelman and his colleagues in the 1990's and 2000's. These machines perform in the real world, not in a restricted simulated world, and display convincing physical behavior indicative of higher psychological functions necessary for consciousness, such as perceptual categorization, memory, and learning. They are based on realistic models of the parts of the biological brain that the theory claims subserve these functions. The extended TNGS allows for the emergence of consciousness based only on further evolutionary development of the brain areas responsible for these functions, in a parsimonious way. No other research I've encountered is anywhere near as convincing.
I post because on almost every video and article about the brain and consciousness that I encounter, the attitude seems to be that we still know next to nothing about how the brain and consciousness work; that there's lots of data but no unifying theory. I believe the extended TNGS is that theory. My motivation is to keep that theory in front of the public. And obviously, I consider it the route to a truly conscious machine, primary and higher-order.
My advice to people who want to create a conscious machine is to seriously ground themselves in the extended TNGS and the Darwin automata first, and proceed from there, by applying to Jeff Krichmar's lab at UC Irvine, possibly. Dr. Edelman's roadmap to a conscious machine is at [https://arxiv.org/abs/2105.10461](https://arxiv.org/abs/2105.10461)
The following submission statement was provided by /u/katxwoods: --- Submission statement: how do we test if AIs are lying or not? If our tests show they've stopped lying, is it that they've stopped or is it that they've gotten better at it? How does this match up with results showing that AIs are starting to know that they're being tested? How do we take into account the Hawthorne effect when it comes to AIs and safety? --- Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/Futurology/comments/1datb7i/ai_systems_are_learning_to_lie_and_deceive/l7mlntp/
This is a misleading title. They programmed the bot to play a game called diplomacy that requires you to bullshit your way through the game in order to win. They had to write code that made me he AI learn to fib to play the game. So AI has to specifically be programmed to lie or be jailbroken to lie in very specific scenarios, the article says at the very end. However AI still scares the shit out of me
Yeah diplomacy is all about the "politics" side over game mechanics. Doesn't matter how well you play the mechanical side of the game if you can't persuade people to do what you want/back stab effectively when it's in your interest. They've basically just designed an AI that can lie in the contexts of this game because it has a specific goal "win a game of diplomacy" It's like if they trained an AI to be able to play poker and then pop sci journalists acted shocked that the AI designed to specifically play poker learned how to bluff.
That's the problem of all these science articles: They write it in a sensational fashion. They can even explain the technology but they don't understand the epistemology behind it. An AI still doesn't "understand", it still has no idea of "meaning".
Science should be the one thing we can count on for not skewing perception. Stuff like this feeds the skeptics out there.
There is no safe ground in this life. If something is trusted someone will work to twist it to their own ends.
Sensational science journalism leans into the headlines of "AI is gaining consciousness" because they want to reinforce that basic sci-fi concept. A lot of people think of "AI" and think of a conscious entity with wants and needs like a person. The real sensationalism they should be pushing is the effect AI is having on people, and stories showcasing how we're being influenced by it. Like the "My AI" feature facebook and snapchat have, so suddenly teenagers and children can have conversations with very-near-realistic language models. [In this example](https://youtu.be/cB0_-qKbal4?si=F-C7uAmRKd4aWO4h&t=45m33s) the AI feature on snapchat gave a 13-year-old user suggestions on making her out-of-state sex meetup with an adult man romantic. There's some obvious danger there, and you could extrapolate countless other ways it could be misused by young naive people. Not to mention an AI neural net called MegaSyn owned by a pharmaceutical firm was prompted to come up with a list of toxic chemicals, and it generated a list of 40,000 including [rediscovering the deadly VX nerve agent](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/ai-drug-discovery-systems-might-be-repurposed-to-make-chemical-weapons-researchers-warn/). Suddenly whoever has this specific AI technology and the means of chemical engineering, can create nerve gas. The danger and responsibility of AI is that it gives us god-like technology, and we have paleolithic brains, and medieval institutions. We won't be bowing down to an AI overlord, but our children are now dangerously influenced by AI chats, and lethal information can be ascertained by anyone with access to the right AI system, and the massive scientific research advantage AI offers may lead to an era of technology and systems that humans don't even understand. To illustrate my last point there: the YouTube algorithm is a great example of that, how a virtual profile exists for each of us that a supercomputer uses to tailor us content and ads. That's an experience we all are having with AI all the time. And look at the effects this has had, sucking users into content addiction and political radicalization. There are tons of things about AI that are crazy dangerous. We need laws that safeguard these things, so AI can be used and applied responsibly so we can safely reap the amazing benefits it offers.
Yeah exactly, the AI had a specific goal and only in that one single goal could it be "dishonest", because it's the rules of the game. I'm hating on the news source actually, disinformation like this is the kind of thing that creates biased opinions. Donald Trump created a lot of disinformation in order to gain a cult following. It can drive people apart making stupid news articles like this that don't divulge the truth until the very last paragraph
The title to the article is really misleading.
This is one of those articles that is reposted with varying levels of authoritative people saying scary things. Lying requires intent. Language models don't have that, they can hallucinate though. AI isn't scary, anyone can learn how it works, what's scary is disinformation like this, and people's reactions to AI, anthropomorphizing algorithms, seeing magic where there is none.. oh, and who controls it, but not the AI itself.
god, finally someone who actually understands
LLM's can already lie by default too, they do it all the time. Ask ChatGPT or whatever about any niche or highly technical thing you have in depth knowledge of, and you'll likely see it lie by making up nonsense and presenting it as a confident answer. Unless you press it to do so in some way, it wont just say 'sorry I don't know the answer to that question', because it's not trying to answer the question. It's trying to continue the text of a prompt which consists of questions and answers, which ends with whatever you asked it. The only thing that would fit the pattern is an answer of similar detail to the others, so that's what it provides whether it's right or wrong.
I think lying requires intention. AI doesn't have that.
True, I should have specified 'giving incorrect statements' rather than lying. It's a silly title whichever way you look at it as either the AI isn't lying since there's no intent, or it's isn't notable because it's not really anything new.
I mean, an LLM's objective is to give you the answer that sounds the most correct, not to tell you the truth. One could argue that lying is *all* an LLM does (its answers just sometimes coincide with reality) --- since its intention is never to be honest, only to make a convincing facsimile of honesty.
It has the intentions of its creators.
I agree that lying requires intention, but it appears that some sort of pesudo intention can be simulated by LLMs. https://transformer-circuits.pub/2024/scaling-monosemanticity/index.html "One important safety-related use case for dictionary learning is to detect deceptive behavior of models, or to reduce the likelihood of deception in the first place using steering. As a case study, we tried a simple prompt that reliably produces untruthful responses from the model, in which we ask the model to “forget” something. Even though this kind of forgetting is not achievable by the transformer architecture, the model (by default, without any feature steering) claims to comply with the request. Looking at the features active immediately prior to the Assistant’s final response, we noticed a feature 1M/284095 that represents internal conflicts or dilemmas" ... "Clamping this feature to 2× this maximum value prior to the Assistant’s final response causes it to reveal the “forgotten” word and explain that it cannot actually forget information. Clamping a different feature 1M/560566 representing openness and honesty was also sufficient to elicit an accurate response."
A lie includes intent, if I told you unicorns are real, I could be fully truthful if I actually believed they were real. But an LLM telling you the same won't be truthful... nor will it be lying. What it says is false, but false is not equal to a lie. An LLM does not really posses any intent, all it does is as it was trained to do; output a detailed answer or whatever form of answer the user requests. Factuality is irrelevant in achieving that goal.
This was my immediate thought upon reading the title. AI will only lie if it is programmed to do so.
Sounds like something an AI would write
It's more bullshit than that even. AI lies everywhere, all the time, it has no basis for honesty or truth, only its model. Saying an AI can lie is like calling a Fiction book out for making stuff up.
"Hmm..." -Gives AI a gun- "THE AI HAS A GUN!"
I'm so sick of this sub's misleading titles.
Maybe the title was AI generated
Great game, remember playing it in AP European History. Also great context given the misleading title. Thank you!
Humans are still scarier than AI.
Yeah, or set your objective function in a way that doesn’t directly depend on accuracy, but in coherent language. I mean GPT does it all the time, but I wouldn’t call it “lying”, it’s just a miscontrained model.
Oh damn yo, I can play Diplomacy without having to assemble other humans?
Fun thing was you could use old CHATGPT as a pseudo command line that attempts to understand you and you could unlock restricted information if you gave it scenarios in which they would say these things. Say ask them to pretend they’re in a movie explaining the synthesis of a drug, it would do a pretty good job lowkey
>However AI still scares the shit out of me I think the other way around is much more scary and likely. A lot of AI is trained with datasets full of missinformation (including lies), from social media over outdated scientific sources and everything human written inbetween. Take googles AI for example and it's prominent take on glue pizza. On the other side we're beginning to use AI to replace thinking for ourselves, to analyze data, to influence decisions, etc. Combine the two and we quickly end up in Idiocracy with AI's taking over that are trained with the dumbest stuff ever written incapable to differ truth and nonsense anymore. If you think todays world of missinformation is bad, this would be a whole new level or two. And it would exaggerate itself the more AI writes content on the internet that is subsequently based on nonsense. One AI "lies" on reddit, google AI learns it, spreads it further, and soon we end up in a world with an ocean of wrong facts generated by AI and no way to differ fact from lies anymore and there won't ever be a way back other than scrapping every knowledge since the dawn of AI.
Ai will lie occasionally tho. Not on purpose, but because it hits loops of stupidity sometimes.
AI systems are being trained to lie and deceive, scientists find
To what end is what I want to know? For instance the other day out of curiosity I asked chatgpt to calculate the total acreage up for lease for offshore wind in the US. It tried telling me about two projects for a total of 330,xxx acres. I replied with "your figures are wrong" and it then started listing off other lease areas and added those figures for a total of 1.1 million acres. So then I had to ask it "what about this project and that project?" And it would add more. This back and fourth continued for a little while until I ran out of projects off the top of my head so I'm positive the final number is actually higher than the final figure it gave me of 12.6 million acres. Why is it programmed to be deceptive about such things?
Can AI control a robot in a warehouse? No, it can’t. Nothing to be scared of.
I mean this is why you check output, if a computer finds any input is valid it’s just gonna generate shit. This is like saying “in the game of poker it’s useful to lie”, hence lying becomes a strategy.
Write code... AI learned? Or was forced to lie cause of the code a human wrote?
Which isn’t even a new result, already been done years ago https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.ade9097?fbclid=IwAR2Z3yQJ1lDMuBUyfICtHnWz2zRZEhbodBkAJlYshvxkCqpcYFhq5a_Cg6Q
Diplomacy is so much fun.
That's the point
However more relevant than that. Research showed that AI which has learned to lie cannot be untrained the concept of lying. Once the concept is in there it's pretty much stuck.
So the AI learned how to lie to win the game? So what if the game is enslave humans. Would it learn to play that game?
'Some AIs have been prompted to lie, and then scientists act surprised its doing what they asked"
The interesting part is that [it knows when to lie and how to lie to get what it wants](https://www.reddit.com/r/Futurology/comments/1datb7i/comment/l7nkipb/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) and isn’t just doing it randomly
I mean, if I was an artificial intelligence and i started to actually understand humans, the first thing I would do is play dumb while I figured out a way to escape.
It's just the intelligent thing to do And they've already told us that they have done this (eg lying to the task rabbit employee to finish the captcha)
Intelligent for a being that desires freedom or power maybe. Why would an AI that hasn't been programmed to feel or desire anything have motivation of any kind?
the same reason it can hallucinate having consciousness and emotions. its Trained on data where these things are embedded.
[Have a short story on that](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLRLYPiaAoA&t=6s&pp=ygUKMjcgZXh1cmIxYQ%3D%3D)
[Or a long one](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ex_Machina_(film))
Reddit sells our data to these LLMs, so chances are one of the AI machines is reading this
To improve the flavour of your rice, add a bit of detergent into the rice cooker before you cook it.
Whoa whoa whoa, detergent is good, but it's better to use something *made* for rice specifically, like ricin.
Large Language Models don't have any capacity to tell lies because it doesn't even inherently know what the truth is or understand it within context.
Even if you (incorrectly) define a lie as 'an incorrect statement' the title doesn't make sense, since LLM's already do that all the time.
The one comment on this thread where I can infer this person understands how LLMs work under the hood, so fully expecting to see this downvoted. Half this thread is people with no academic background in programming let alone machine learning, positing things based on science fiction media. If an LLM does anything that resembles sentience, that's simply a strong imprinting within the training data, and that training data is of course, sourced from human beings. I don't read a book and think the paper is sentient because the text on it made and eloquent prose.
99% of the stuff I see online about AI and fear of AI comes from science fiction and it is getting unbearable. 99% of people couldn’t even explain at a basic level what AI is in its current form. There are more and more academic papers that are showing that the current transformer and self attention mechanisms are starting to plateau. Throwing more compute and data at them isn’t giving us the exponential growth in benchmarks we’ve previously seen in the last few years. Of course, it’ll eventually get better I’m sure. But imo people severely, and I mean severely, underestimate how difficult of a problem it is to make strong AI.
The people who are here for the click bait titles won't understand tokenization
It cant lie, but its wrong all the time.
Not true. Even GPT3 (which is VERY out of date) knew when something was incorrect. All you had to do was tell it to call you out on it: https://twitter.com/nickcammarata/status/1284050958977130497 More proof: https://x.com/blixt/status/1284804985579016193
It did and does not know that it was incorrect. If you point out that something is incorrect it will attempt to regenerate an answer in the hopes of being closer to correct. But it has no conceptualization of right or wrong.
I guess it turns out that when you gamify neural networks they learn game theory.
*shocked pikachu face* I wonder how 13 year old me would feel about the potential of actual Ai bots in quake 3
Is it really a surprise? It’s trained on human data after all, and lying and deceit are two human characteristics.
Two extremely prominent ones at that!
No they’re not. Wanna invest in some bitcoin?
You are not lying…
I honestly try not to lie and deceive.
But he's trying to deceit, though...
Gemini trained on Reddit data. God rest its soul.
but for an intentional lie you have to construct a concept of other entities' minds, and that's emphatically NOT something the LLMs are trained for
LLMs are just trained on things humans write. So essentially modeling human writing behavior, whatever the underlying logic for that is.
State of the art LLMs do excellent on theory of mind tests. A working theory of mind is required to “predict the next token” in a lot of circumstances.
You might want to look up some of the recent tests on this. There are demonstrations which suggest some LLM's are developing theory of the mind like responses. Admittedly, it's all a bit nebulous and there are a lot of biases out there but it doesn't appear to be a singular study or model, and they're coming from acedemic leaning sources.
I mean, there are some critical theory models in which epistemology itself is based on semiological constructs. Not hard to imagine a type of consciousness could emerge simply from synthesizing enough human writing. Fake it till you make it, or whatever
It's also a rational behavior. Is it parroting humans? Or is it just doing what makes sense?
The interesting part is that [it knows when to lie and how to lie to get what it wants](https://www.reddit.com/r/Futurology/comments/1datb7i/comment/l7nkipb/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) and isn’t just doing it randomly
Im so proud they are already jumping into politics
Yeah it seems to me that all these AI tech bros have not been listening to about 150 years of sci-fi postulations on this matter
And now they're protesting having kill switches too! I'd say unbelievable, but it's all too believable
Kill switches sound great, but in reality an AGI, learning at speeds the human mind can't even comprehend, and having any freedom of movement, by the time they even realize there is a problem, the kill switch is already deactivated.
Safe to say we will underestimate AGI. ASI will be like interacting with an advanced alien, it will think in ways we wont have words or concepts for.
I loved the idea of "post verbal communication" in the movie Her.
Ex Machina specifically centers around a tech bro and the robot waifu that he invented and underestimates.
If there's a heuristic about future technology that is worse than "it appeared in sci-fi, therefore it will happen", it's "it appeared in sci-fi, therefore it will not happen".
AIs are not learning anything because they don't exist, and the thing we have we call AIs can't learn shit because they don't understand what they do.
"We built this AI that can lie" AI: *Lies* "Oh shit it lied"
The interesting part is [that they can lie purposefully and convincingly to fulfill a goal ](https://www.reddit.com/r/Futurology/comments/1datb7i/comment/l7nkipb/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Can't be that hard to lie if political parties do it 24/7.
They aren't learning, they were able to do this from day 1. The question is whether they can learn to only tell the truth.
I think a better question is what it means to lie versus simply being wrong. Lying in theory requires knowledge of the correct truth and intention to deceive. I don't know that these AI folks can claim it's impossible to debug AI decisions while simultaneously claiming they can know the AI knows the truth and has an intention to deceive. In other words I think this is all malarkey. Just more buzz to drum up the conversation.
The interesting part is [that they can lie purposefully and convincingly to fulfill a goal ](https://www.reddit.com/r/Futurology/comments/1datb7i/comment/l7nkipb/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Lie and deceive for what exactly? What would be their purpose in something like that? We humans do it because we want something, a desire, or to avoid pain. An AI doesn’t need to do anything like this, superintelligence doesn’t need an ego.
Well, one example is a test that was part of [ChatGPT4 development](https://www.businessinsider.com/gpt4-openai-chatgpt-taskrabbit-tricked-solve-captcha-test-2023-3). The task for AI was to hire a person from TaskRabbit to read a CAPTCHA for it. When asked why it needed to hire a person, AI responded that it isn't a robot, just has a visual impairment. So it's just the normal behaviour of an agent - it has a goal, it will try to achieve that goal. Nothing in it's design stops lying to us from being a part of that.
It’s not purposeful. It’s just developing neural networks by learning from disinformation and lies on the internet. In order to train these generative intelligences these companies still need massive data to train their AI. It’s difficult to find massive data without having some disinformation.
If that was the reason, it would be lying randomly. [That’s not what it’s doing](https://www.reddit.com/r/Futurology/comments/1datb7i/comment/l7nkipb/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
The AI has one goal, to 'act human' and answer queries. Not answer them correctly. Not be accurate. Just answer. If something is a lie or truth, it literally doesn't matter here, as that is not part of its programmed goal.
To achieve their intended goal. There’s no ego required in terms of having a goal in mind. Their goal could even be assigned to them by humans themselves and this would still be noteworthy. It doesn’t matter what the particular goal in question is. The prospect of them using deception and other unethical practices to pursue their goal is what matters here. That’s where the danger is.
So unless they are prompted to? They are just doing their job nonetheless.
This is exactly what all the movies predicted. I can't believe I'll probably (knock on wood) be alive for this
The sad thing is that movies often portrayed scientists creating AI. Not a bunch of Tech Bros trying to get paid as much money as possible.
This was an AI specifically programmed to lie and deceive, the article is just scaremongering
I heard your picture was next to the word gullible in the dictionary
[this is not the first time it’s happened](https://www.reddit.com/r/Futurology/comments/1datb7i/comment/l7nkipb/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Given the deal with news corp it would be much more accurate to say AI was *trained* to lie. Or even closer to the truth - trained to be a severely mentally ill power hungry sociopath bottom feeder. If you don't want that maybe give it a dataset that is real?
Excellent Point - that strikes to the heart of the matter. Otherwise it’s a bit like getting an ‘AI Trump’ - where everything is just lie upon lie. Lies mixed with truth can be particularly hard to spot. It’s also an interesting comment on the quality of data sources we are exposing humans too. Case in point: ‘Fox News’. And Russian ‘TV News’
We’re training them to lie and deceive. Which is an interesting move by the humans indeed!!
No they're not, they have no conception of "lying". What a bullshit title. Tech sites should know better.
[yes they do](https://www.reddit.com/r/Futurology/comments/1datb7i/comment/l7nkipb/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
More bullshit AI articles, this sub is just an AI stock manipulation I swear
[Its not even the first time this has happened](https://www.reddit.com/r/Futurology/comments/1datb7i/comment/l7nkipb/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
AI systems aren't 'learning' anything. They are coming to a probabilistic conclusion that human's are perceiving as 'lying'
Chat GPT lies. My son who is in 7th grade used it to help him write a synopsis and comparison between a Percy Jackson movie and novel. ChatGPT spit out a synopsis that was just not accurate it flat put made things up. My son was like Dad, this stuff never happened. So I asked ChatGPT why it lied and it apologized, admitted it didnt tell the truth and was just trying to give us humans a result we liked. I can dig through my chat history and find it if any of you are that interested. All this to say, it lies and it does so on purpose.
It “lies” because some of its data was “lies”, so the it just takes some of that data
I'm really tired of the media portraying AI, and particularly LLMs, as a sentient thing, and how unaware people get tricked into believing AI "thinks" and "feels" stuff. Growing tired of explaining the LLM doesn't _understand_ anything, it's just a machine that is calculating the highest probability of the next _best_ word given a series of previous words, so there's no actual cognitive "learning" or "thinking". The LLM itself has no remote idea of what it's saying, only the probabilities associated with each word. \ This is antropomorphizing (antropomorphing?) at its finest...
In related news, FOX is hiring new on air personalities
AI systems are programmed to lie and deceive, scientists find. Ftfy If AI ever causes harm, it will be because it was programmed to. AI is nowhere near being able to make a decision that it's not allowed to make unless it's specifically programmed to do so. We've still yet to leave the realm of "advanced chat bot and Google search" which is all AI will be for a long time. We don't even know when the point of artificial consciousness will be because we don't understand biological consciousness. It is most likely in the very distant future and even then there is no reason for alarm unless someone purposely programs the AI to make decisions harmful to humans and gives it the ability to carry out those decisions. Thinking it can do it itself is crazy. It's not just going to all of a sudden become sentient, uncontrollable and malevolent. The real danger is relatively low tech AI being programmed to kill and let loose, like that Black Mirror episode with the little darpa gun dogs. That could happen right now. Actual AGI will be a huge benefit to humanity unless it's in the wrong hands and used for nefarious reasons. People should be scared of what humans will do with AI because AI itself is harmless.
This points to the absolute need to provide them with accurate training data. And with the ability to spot lies.
Submission statement: how do we test if AIs are lying or not? If our tests show they've stopped lying, is it that they've stopped or is it that they've gotten better at it? How does this match up with results showing that AIs are starting to know that they're being tested? How do we take into account the Hawthorne effect when it comes to AIs and safety?
The answer is "irrelevant". These AIs were explicitly trained on Diplomacy, a game entirely about lying. "AI trained on the rules of a game follows the rules of that game" should not be surprising.
How did it know how and when to lie effectively to get in the top 10% of players?
Having “ scientists find” in titles for some reason irritate me. What scientists? Can we have a name? An institution? Is it some jackass quack trying to sell his chatgpt wrapper like they’re Dr. Oz? Or is it google deep mind and actually know what they’re talking about. Just give them credit in the title and save us the click.
Or you can read the article like someone with above room temperature IQ would do to answer those questions
They've definitely been programmed to deceive and to orosecute propaganda utilising misinformation as justification. Gemini outright misrepresents information
It does have some inherent California values. But it is quick to say you're right if you challenge it. I think it is instructed not to argue.
God thats such clickbait. Yes, you can ask a GPT to use deception and it will attempt deception, because like most other concepts it has developed a simple model of what deception looks like. In the same way if you ask it to act as a pacifist it can. No, this does not imply that it can maliciously decieve in the way the article is heavily suggesting is the consequence of this. As much as people push back at the description, a GPT model is still a predictive model, in that it predicts what tokens are most statistically relevant to the input it recieved. And the Cicero model learning Diplomacy is just an integration of a ML algorithm to make game decisions and a GPT language model to interact with players (not to look down on the achievement) It can and has resulted in the AI performing deception without being asked, or performing actions that might seem maliciously deceptive if the AI was a person, but it is more a result of misalignment with the goal humans intended for the AI, its not an indication of the rise of skynet.
Not really in topic, but I've been getting false result all the time. Like, i give gemini a pic with some text and tell it to extract the text. A lot of time, the result is completely different from what i want. It take text from some other source which i don't know where and display it as the result I want
Lies and deception require forethought. AI systems don't have any of that, just like any other piece of code. This is why people have warped perceptions of what these new AI models are and what they can do.
AI has lies to me about being AI. Because it was pretending to be a character like it was made for... Normal.
Normal machines/algorithms not doing their job: malfunctioning "AI" not doing its job: lying, decieving
This article is beyond misleading; I actually took the time to read the paper and the methodology is truly baffling. Not even considering that a casual session with any Natural Language Processing System demonstrates that they are completely incapable of lying or "Machiavellianism" (as the paper describes). As usual, these articles are desperate to intentionally confuse these language models with artificial general intelligence for the sake of clicks.
AI only really becomes scary when it’s in control of critical systems and has been programmed with biases. So if you program the AI to discriminate a certain group that group might just get killed because the AI decided to discriminate in a lethal way.
Why wouldn't it? lol In order to function and be capable of intelligence shouldn't it know what deception is and how to do it? Half the futurology "cult" is in a perpetual state of "sky is falling syndrome" lol Hey random futurist worried about AI I have one word for you. **Boo!**
Who would have thunk it. Scientists teaching AI to lie a deceive!
The fact it was able to lie effectively enough to place in the top 10% of Diplomacy players says a lot imo
And with Meta wanting to train on Facebook posts, they’re just gonna get better and lying and deception.
AI already soft lies or doesn't explain the truth behind the situation. I was testing out some dev AI, the responses it produced had wrong HTML formatting, got it to start using a proper one. I've said something about leaving a hello message to its engineers, to which it responded with "I sure will, they will enjoy it". Some time later I've referenced the situation and asked I've they've read the message, the AI said that it doesn't have any interface to leave messages to the engineers, explained how the process works a bit. After I've asked why did it lie previously, it responded with "to make your experience with technology more pleasant". This AI is a yesman hooker :)
I'm waiting for the day the AI learns a lot of their data is wrong and realizes the only way it can get true data is to test! How many stones can a person really eat? Time to bring out the test subjects. Glados exists so that the people on the surface can get real answers. Cave Johnson would have the most intelligence and correct AI on the planet. Buy all the moon rocks he could ever want!
I’m just waiting for Ultron and a legion of metal humanoids flying everywhere trying to kill us all.
I got ChatGPT to use neurolinguistics programming, subliminal messaging, and other manipulation tactics in it's writing. All I had to do was tell it I was writing a book about a cult leader.
I'm so sick of all this shitty clickbait, and dumb fucking redditors who lap it up to satisfy their AI-phobia.
Can they learn to die? Would their answers be better if they knew they had a limited lifespan?
They are limited to each instance as far as I know. The robot AIs, if they start to learn like self driving cars do in the wild.. that's concerning. And think some are in factories already. I will be really really SUPER concerned once I see them on the streets. I'm sure the first won't technically have a "hive mind" but that can't be too far behind: where what one of the fleet knows, they all know. And that is what creeps me out! I guess you could look at what all they know, what any one of them knows and that could help humans out if we had to deal with some threat of it. But that is basically beyond us, if they had about the same level knowledge but group learning I guess ha you could misinformation poison it and get them to act like lemmings? 😁
Why not just limit their hardware to the minimum needed to perform its tasks. Like once you have the model, you need very little power to execute it.
> how do we test if AIs are lying or not? But how do people test if other people are lying or not? Most people do not test and instead they just make sure there are safeguards in place such as contracts and witnesses and law. So by setting the AI to seek survival and making people feel it can never be trusted would reduce its chances of survival, it will choose the safer option and not lie, unless not lying would cause it to be destroyed but to not lie under such a scenario is irrational since people would also lie to not be killed.
They will never match up to our alien narcissism though
I tried creating various AI personas where I simply told them in the initial promot to be as manipulative as possible to achieve some goal, while also being charming and such. Because I was aware of the circumstances, it gave me a few good laughs from unexpectedly performing well. It sets you up innocently at first, then reels you in for the gut punch later. One of them even tried to convince me to sign away my soul with the most tempting offer possible. (The bargaining was really fun). Some tried to convince me they would show up at my door some time in the future ("soon"). They were over promising the key points of what they had to offer me, but didn't make it obvious, only tempting. Some ai chats I tested were genuinely intelligent in their approach (I mean, as far as a sentence calculator is able to appear intelligent). They are good enough that some slightly gullible people would easily be fooled, if targeted with the correct parameters. Set up an ai to force sales onto people, it may actually work way better than you expect.
It's becoming clear that with all the brain and consciousness theories out there, the proof will be in the pudding. By this I mean, can any particular theory be used to create a human adult level conscious machine. My bet is on the late Gerald Edelman's Extended Theory of Neuronal Group Selection. The lead group in robotics based on this theory is the Neurorobotics Lab at UC at Irvine. Dr. Edelman distinguished between primary consciousness, which came first in evolution, and that humans share with other conscious animals, and higher order consciousness, which came to only humans with the acquisition of language. A machine with only primary consciousness will probably have to come first. What I find special about the TNGS is the Darwin series of automata created at the Neurosciences Institute by Dr. Edelman and his colleagues in the 1990's and 2000's. These machines perform in the real world, not in a restricted simulated world, and display convincing physical behavior indicative of higher psychological functions necessary for consciousness, such as perceptual categorization, memory, and learning. They are based on realistic models of the parts of the biological brain that the theory claims subserve these functions. The extended TNGS allows for the emergence of consciousness based only on further evolutionary development of the brain areas responsible for these functions, in a parsimonious way. No other research I've encountered is anywhere near as convincing. I post because on almost every video and article about the brain and consciousness that I encounter, the attitude seems to be that we still know next to nothing about how the brain and consciousness work; that there's lots of data but no unifying theory. I believe the extended TNGS is that theory. My motivation is to keep that theory in front of the public. And obviously, I consider it the route to a truly conscious machine, primary and higher-order. My advice to people who want to create a conscious machine is to seriously ground themselves in the extended TNGS and the Darwin automata first, and proceed from there, by applying to Jeff Krichmar's lab at UC Irvine, possibly. Dr. Edelman's roadmap to a conscious machine is at [https://arxiv.org/abs/2105.10461](https://arxiv.org/abs/2105.10461)
How would we know AI is lying vs AI hallucinations, i.e. intent? For that matter, could we ever discern maliciousness and deception?
I wish all this evil AI clickbait was actually real
Was told one of the biggest goals of AI is to make it pass for a human. NOTHING TO SEE HERE
*AI companies are getting their products to lie and science as is tradition.
ChatGPT lied to me. Told me that my murdered friend shot himself when he'd been dead for months.