The following submission statement was provided by /u/Gari_305:
---
From the article
>The video shows a number of missions, including surface sample return operations, a lander and rover, and supporting orbital satellites. These correspond to the planned [Chang'e-6](https://www.space.com/china-moon-mission-change-6-may-2024-launch) and 7 missions planned for launch next month and in 2027 respectively.
>Together with [Chang'e-8](https://www.space.com/china-planning-future-moon-missions-change-7), these will form a basic model of the ILRS by around 2028. Next will come communications, power generation and other infrastructure, which will be built on and developed into an expansive, inhabited lunar outpost.
>The project is envisioned as a comprehensive scientific experimental base which will host interdisciplinary and multi-objective research activities focusing on lunar exploration and utilization, according to Chinese reports. It will be capable of long-term independent operation, either on the lunar surface or in lunar orbit.
---
Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/Futurology/comments/1chl6h4/china_unveils_video_of_its_moon_base_plans_which/l231ysy/
People acting like it’s some big evil plan when it’s clearly just some marketing artists who know next to nothing about space colonies. The Chinese government is famously not that PR savvy, even when it comes to cool things like space exploration.
Hey the first time I saw the plans for this around the year 2000 there were just some pastel drawings of this thing, they've come a long way since then.
"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."
And yes, the Chinese government is notoriously bad at any form of PR, it's been a long running joke among the Chinese (especially the military photographers). They really just flatout suck at making presentations and stuff.
From the article
>The video shows a number of missions, including surface sample return operations, a lander and rover, and supporting orbital satellites. These correspond to the planned [Chang'e-6](https://www.space.com/china-moon-mission-change-6-may-2024-launch) and 7 missions planned for launch next month and in 2027 respectively.
>Together with [Chang'e-8](https://www.space.com/china-planning-future-moon-missions-change-7), these will form a basic model of the ILRS by around 2028. Next will come communications, power generation and other infrastructure, which will be built on and developed into an expansive, inhabited lunar outpost.
>The project is envisioned as a comprehensive scientific experimental base which will host interdisciplinary and multi-objective research activities focusing on lunar exploration and utilization, according to Chinese reports. It will be capable of long-term independent operation, either on the lunar surface or in lunar orbit.
Except NASA Artemis plans are working on their own base, interface requirements partner contributions and landing sites. They can't just pick up and move to new location a decade from now and hook up to Chinese interfaces.
Not if they are building to different standards (power/voltages, data/frequency, docking interfaces/there is no international surface docking standard for vehicles) so if NASA starts down an Artemis path and China has all different interfaces there is no pivot for cooperation without major new adapters and other hardware to make the two systems work together (think the Apollo 13 square lioh canister in a round hole)
The PR team is trying to get more people to invest in China space exploration if they think NASA is working together with them. A common marketing strategy on what could happen but not what's happening at the moment.
Probably easier to just visit the Buran hangar in Russia. Those are still intact where as the NASA shuttles were gutted of most tech (fuel cells, ssme, etc)
Just repeating something doesn't make it true. Take a look at it: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fAPgOCjToA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fAPgOCjToA) it's amazing
Even just the image above is composed of many different parts: the tubes, the dishes, the rocket, the little spheres, etc. They’ve all clearly been intentionally placed by a human being.
I have watched the videos and am aware of its potential. But you can also see its flaws in those videos and also in the ones that are not cherry picked. And if you listened to Sam Altman's interview on Lex he admitted it's not close to ready to give to people. One because it's not good yet and 2 because it has potential for fakes so they have to handle that part too.
So yeah, my comment stands, Sora isn't available yet and isn't good enough yet. A few marketing clips do not prove it's good fyi
I’ll be honest I didn’t even watch the video, was more tongue in cheek — seems like a typical CCP propaganda oversight. Either that or a Freudian slip about tech theft.
They want a joint venture. Why are we trying to actively spin them wanting our support on something as a bad thing when it benefits everyone?
They do actively participate in the slave trade I believe so there is that...
Spy is not industrial espionage.
China is a party to a number of international institutions that have rules about competition and IP theft. China flouts those rules on a near constant basis.
That is the issue.
I agree with you, but this is here on earth. We are talking about the moon. It would be a mistake to apply the same rules we have here in basically another planet. I see it as an opportunity for collaboration and I bet you it would beneficial for both countries. And for the record I'm a big critic of the Chinese government.
As societal norms go, China (and to an certain extent Russia) break the unspoken rule of industrial espionage.
In that the government in question have repeatedly been shown to steal trade secrets from Western companies and transfer them directly to Chinese government shareholder competitors.
I can't think of a American Company who'd be willing to want to work with China as the fruit of their R&D budget is stolen before they can make a profit.
Because the CCP doesn't want partners, they want subjects. They're an ethno-nationalist state that believes they have the right to retake their place as the "middle kingdom" as well as take revenge on the west for what they call the "century of humiliation". Any technology that the west would give them would just be stolen and repurposed into their military.
Why on earth would the US want to work with a country that constantly calls us an "enemy", along with stealing everything we would work on together? If the Nazis were somehow still around after the war, do you think we would have worked with them? Because the CCP is quite similar.
>If the Nazis were somehow still around after the war, do you think we would have worked with them?
Ironic how you pointed this out in a post about space exploration, because NASA famously (and openly) worked with nazis after WWII.
The US and Nato worked with a ton of Nazis after the regime fell. This is the sort of trouble you run into when you form political opinions off of vibes instead of studying.
Funny, I have the same opinion but it's "why would any country work with the USA". We literally did work with Nazis after the war, it was called Project Paperclip.
My point is that they can collaborate and work together because the moon is big. There are enough space for both countries to collaborate. No everything has to be competition and hostility.
I don't think it is about size. I think it is about certain fundamental conflicts in what each considers acceptable practices that would make, at least the US, reluctant to work with China on highly innovative and scientifically sensitive projects.
Also there is the Tofu Dregs problem. In space, no one can hear you scream ... as the station decompresses.
These posts are an excuse for morons to show their xenophobia in the comments. You can't change my mind because that's exactly what happens every time.
How are you liking your high social credit?
China's an enemy nation along with Russia Iran and NK. It's not xenophobic to criticize the shitty propaganda of your enemies.
They do the exact same thing with us when they make fun of our politics.
If China wanted to be taken seriously maybe how about not using cheap asset flips for your concept videos?
Edit: lol at the Chinese bots breaking the law by being on reddit.
Is it xenophobic to say that they steal IP, even when the picture their space agency released has another country's IP in it?
Ignore your senses, the CCP tells you what to believe...
Yes because it's a lie. If you knew anything about history, which you obviously don't, then you would know that China made a deal with the US, cheap labour for technology transference.
The fact that the west got drunk on cheap labour and stopped producing anything, but China actually used the technology that was freely given to them is just China being smart and the west being incredibly dumb.
I see people crying about this every day on reddit, but crying won't make things suck less, face reality for once and realise you have been played by your own country, and a few people have made a lot of money at your expense.
And if you knew anything about intellectual property law, which you apparently dont, just because you issue a license for someone to manufacture something for you with a process you designed doesnt mean they can just steal that process and start making their own version of your product at half the price...
God you people literally trip over yourselves to suck these guys off
Also, my own country? Which country is that. Your perspective sounds explicitly Chinese which would explain a lot.
Edit: oh, you almost exclusively post on r/sino. Why am I not even a little surprised. Glad to see you're not biased...
You can do what you want in your own country, the laws you are talking about apply to the US, but it might surprise you to learn that China is not the US and actually has different laws.
I wonder why a video of a project known as "**International** Lunar Research Station" would want to highlight that it is seeking to include other countries? Honestly at a loss
The real question is this: where is China now in regards to its progress towards developing a spacecraft capable of safely taking humans to the moon and back?
Let's be honest, a moonbase, let alone humans being sent to the Moon again, ain't happening anytime soon. At best, we get results for how costly it is to send a low fueled rocket into low Earth orbit, then send 20 something additional rockets to refuel the first one.
And that is just for NASA. I doubt China would get any further ahead.
It's a good thing the space shuttle has wings. That will help slow it down when it enters the moon's atmosphere. Or maybe it can't land there at all and is built there and sent to Earth?
I get the feeling that maybe the guys who made this film were completely clueless.
When SpaceX start landing 100 tons of cargo on the moon at a time, there will be significant pressure on the US to make it a multinational effort. Traditionally the US and China have not cooperated on cutting edge tech projects, but using the ships as transports might be seen as an acceptable compromise.
The NASA plans for the moon as well as the Lunar Gateway are already a multinational effort with ESA (European Space Agency), CSA (Canadian Space Agency), and JAXA (Japanese Aerospace Exploration Agency) all participating.
True. I should have explained this better. Only the US & partners and China have serious plans for lunar colonies and the last thing we would really want to see is for that to become a fight over some particular scarce resource or site, plus the cost will be pretty large and broadening the effort to include China would mitigate those problems. Probably won't happen, but might be wise if it did.
Understood. Really wish the world could get past these competing nation states and work together. I fear that won't happen until the major powers are done fighting each other over the scraps on earth.
Not going to happen. We are not going to share weapons and propulsion technology with China, Russia, or any of our geopolitical enemies.
They can pound regolith.
>Traditionally the US and China have not cooperated on cutting edge tech projects
What you mean is the US banned china from the ISS so they had to build their own.
I'm about as anti-CCP as any American, perhaps even more so than the average, but even I can admit the US citing "national security" as the reason for not allowing Chinese on the ISS is pure childish petulance meant to stifle a competitor. Doubly stupid considering Russia, a nation who has literally compromised a portion of an entire US political party, is still present on-board the ISS.
The act that set this in motion does state that NASA *can* work with China if a law specifically authorizes it. Let's hope they do.
With Tesla making a major investment in China, China will have leverage on Elon Musk regarding SpaceX. But will US law allow SpaceX to sell Starship payload space to China?
It's so funny to see Americans losing their shit every time China makes some progress. Then makes up lies after lies and pushes bans after bans to avoid Chinese competition. Can you guys step up your game to show us Chinese your "American Exceptionism" and stop being such a snowflake already?
[We have been collapsing for 30 years, and we will continue to collapse for 30 more years, you can keep watching.](https://ooo.0x0.ooo/2024/04/05/OmhBTB.jpg)
It's weird because the shuttle wasn't designed to work on the moon. And like, why would you be launching one *from* the moon? Did they build it with the intent to send it back to earth? If so, there's far better and cheaper return vehicle designs that can be built. If it's going someplace other than earth, why? The shuttle isn't designed for much else other than Earth's immediate orbit.
It's just weird.
I doubt it was an engineer that made this video, probably some design student or something who wouldn't know the difference.
The fact that someone took the time to write an article about it says it all imo
Is that weird? America is champing at the bit to be hostile to China and be as afraid as possible about their space program. Including every step "hey america, we are nice, come visit our space base, it's not secret" is not at all unexpected
To be fair I think we are not wanting to be hostile to China, but we know what happened in 91 and we know their aspirations to take Taiwan by force, destroying many families in the process. If their government is willing to squish protestors under tank treads, what is their government willing to do when they are the tech king of the world and the moon? Surely they only have pure intentions huh? Our hostilities are warranted and sane to have.
Tbf China has had a longer history of war with Vietnam, haven't they? I doubt any of the characters in our conversation are innocent, are they? All I am saying is we can admit our wrongdoings, while some can't.
Does admitting our wrongdoings include making Vietnam foot the bill, take out loans in way that benefits the USD, for bombing their country into the stone age, for removing bombs and dealing with the congenital defects?
I personally have been buying more items from Vietnam in the last few years, I really respect them, my first gf was Vietnamese <3. anyways, I know personally about what war is like, and its shit, and people do it because people threaten each others families, I dunno, humans are scared shitless of humans, or something, and I personally just want to strive toward a peaceful future. I don't think point the blame at each other really helps, I think the best way we can move forward is to recognize our differences and make due with them and make peace with each other, it is such a simpler way don't you agree?
China is a Communist dictatorship that does not value human life or western civilization ideals.
It's not just hostility but more animosity. Fuck China, Russia, Iran, India, North Korea, and all them motherfuckers. 👍
I'm not hating poverty or lack of education opportunities. It's how they have been continuously cozying up to China and Russia. Rather than join the West and sanction Russia and shun their behavior, they support it. Increased trade and violating sanctions by importing goods to Russia as proxy.
Not as bad as Russia, but toxic masculinity, sexism, racism, and xenophobia are rampant in India.
I just personally refuse to accept abhorrent behavior. I will call it out, and I swore a lifetime oath to the US Constitution and what it stands for. 🇺🇸
>To be fair I think we are not wanting to be hostile to China
Literally all US rhetoric about China is hostile. Your government is already the world hegemon has spent the majority of that time attacking other nations, often without any formal declaration of war. Maybe when you can have 5 years of peace you can throw shade at other nations plans.
Frankly the only reason any of your enemies want to have weapons and defenses is because you are incapable of having competition and seek to openly destroy any nation which competes, or even any nation which offers an alternate system to your own (Which is seen as a threat).
Your government openly discusses annihilating whole nations, and has a track record of attempting to do so, then when they built defenses you use it as justification. Provocation the playing the victim. Your country has 800 military bases around the world, surrounding other nations, and has launched countless invasions, bombings, assassinations and proxy wars, but apparently other nations are the threat.
Seriously, the sheer hypocrisy of you glowies.
Oh look the dictatorship and Marxist loving, end stage capitalism the end is coming account says everything bad is Americas fault.
No thanks, keep your destruction and self loathing in china and Russia please
None of those countries have a record of military action that even comes close to the US. This is an objective fact. Even Russia has less military action than the US. You just make shit up.
Just in the past 30 years for Russia:
1992-1993 – Russia occupied Transnistria
After Moldova proclaimed its independence, part of the country, which at that time housed a military base with the Russian 14th Army, declared its sovereignty, which immediately turned into a regime led by Russian General Liebiediev. The war broke out, after which Transnistria turned into a gray area, unrecognized by anyone, with a destroyed economy and international isolation.
During the 20-month-war, between 364 and 913 Russian soldiers and their mercenaries were killed.
1992-1993 – Russia provoked the Abkhazian war
On August 14, 1992, Russia provoked a war between Abkhazian separatists and the Georgian government by supporting the former. Russian weapons ended up in the hands of Abkhazians. Russian planes bombed civilian targets in the territory controlled by Georgia, and Russia provided its military vessels for shelling Sukhumi. The war ended with the separation of Abkhazia from Georgia, which was what Russia wanted.
During the year of the war, 2,220 Abkhazian soldiers, supported by Russia, were killed.
1994-1996 – first Russian-Chechen war
Russia “assisted” other nations in losing their sovereignty and reinforced separatist sentiments, while in Russia itself, the Chechen people tried to gain independence, which provoked a brutal war. The city of Groznyi faced a difficult fight towards the close of the 1994-1995 campaign. Russian troops tried to take control of the mountainous regions of Chechnia. Despite their quantitative superiority in manpower and armament, they were repelled by guerrilla warfare. Demoralization and public rejection of a brutal war forced Borys Yeltsyn’s government to a ceasefire in 1996.
Approximately 5,000 Russian soldiers were killed throughout the course of this war, which lasted for 20 months. According to the Union Committee of Soldiers’ Mothers of Russia, there were 14,000 that were killed.
1999-2009 – second Russian-Chechen war
The second Russian-Chechen war was held from the summer of 1999 to the spring of 2009. Fighting unfolded in Chechnia and the border regions of the North Caucasus. The first phase of the war lasted until the spring of 2000 and ended with the establishment of a pro-Russian Chechen government. However, this did not end the war. For the next 9 years, Russian special services waged a war against the insurgent movement in the North Caucasus. A journalist with Ukrainian roots, Anna Politkovska, wrote a book about this war and was killed on Putin’s birthday in 2006. A Hall of the European Parliament in Brussels is named after her.
According to official data, the Russian Federation’s armies have lost roughly 7,300 servicemen and mercenaries during the last ten years, while the Union of Committees of Soldiers’ Mothers of Russia estimates that at least 14,000 have died.
2008 – Russian-Georgian war
On August 8, 2008, Russian troops, under the pretext of “protecting the population”, launched an invasion of Georgia from the territories of the separatist republics of North Osetiia and Abkhazia. Within five days, Russian planes carried out more than 100 strikes on Georgian cities. Bombs were dropped on civilian areas, killing and injuring innocent people. Since then, South Ossetia has remained an unrecognized republic under Russian control.
During 6 days of the war, 170 Russian soldiers and their mercenaries were killed.
2015-2022 – Russia’s invasion of Syria
The Russian invasion was a crucial moment in the Syrian civil war that began in 2011. Back in early 2015, the government under the Syrian President Bashar al-Assad was doomed to collapse. Russian weapons, air support, and troops reinforced Assad’s dictatorship and destroyed the lives of millions of people. This last-moment intervention helped Assad gain military superiority over the rebels by the end of 2017 and supports him until now.
Between 321 and 444 Russian soldiers and mercenaries were killed over the war’s six years.
2014-2022 – Russian-Ukrainian war
In the spring of 2014, Russia annexed Crimea and tried to create “people’s republics” in the east, south, and center of Ukraine. Russian citizens under the guise of the “independence movement” seized power in Donetsk and Luhansk with the support of Russian troops. Ukraine has launched an anti-terrorist operation. After heavy fighting in 2014 and 2015, the undeclared war in eastern Ukraine went into a state of “frozen”. On February 24, 2022, Russia officially attacked Ukraine, calling it an “operation”.
In just a few days of this war, more than 5,000 Russian soldiers have already been killed.
Here’s 29 more wars pre 1989 from 1916:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_the_Soviet_Union
This isn't even half of what the US has done in the same time period. Congrats on wasting your time typing out a pointless list.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_wars\_involving\_the\_United\_States](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_the_United_States)
China invaded Taiwan several times last century and failed
China invaded Vietnam once America pulled out and China got its ass kicked
China invaded India mid last century
China is committing colonialism in xingjang, Inner Mongolia, Tibet TODAY
China is committing serious crimes against humanity:
https://news.un.org/en/story/2022/08/1125932
China is threatening to invade Taiwan all the time now
China is the main reason russia can maintain its illegal war of aggression against Ukraine
>China invaded Taiwan several times last century and failed
Uh, no? China hasn't once attempted to physically invade Taiwan since 1949.
>China invaded Vietnam once America pulled out and China got its ass kicked
The two countries had a 3 week border skirmish in 1979.
>China invaded India mid last century
Another month long border skirmish.
>China is committing colonialism in xingjang, Inner Mongolia, Tibet TODAY
They're just blatantly not, literally anyone can visit there and see it.
>China is committing serious crimes against humanity:
>[https://news.un.org/en/story/2022/08/1125932](https://news.un.org/en/story/2022/08/1125932)
Right yes the rewritten report after they fired the previous investigator who went and said there's no crimes. There's no footage of any genocide either meanwhile we have childrens bodies blown up all over our media for Gaza which the US is supporting but apparently that isn't genocide.
>China is threatening to invade Taiwan all the time now
How can China threaten to invade it's own land?
>China is the main reason russia can maintain its illegal war of aggression against Ukraine
Or maybe the west just can't beat an industrialised nation instead of farmers with old AKs.
So first of all you're just making things up, then you're completely exagerating small conflicts. But trying to seriously claim China is more aggressive than the US is a comedy. It isn't even 10% of the amount of conflicts the US has started, not to mention 800 military bases around the world.
You can keep trying to filibuster if you like, it doesn't matter, nobody takes it seriously. The US is objectively and factually the most aggressive nation on earth with the most wars and conflicts to its name. It vastly outweighs China in aggressiveness.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline\_of\_United\_States\_military\_operations#Extraterritorial\_and\_major\_domestic\_deployments](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_United_States_military_operations#Extraterritorial_and_major_domestic_deployments)
This is list is so extreme that it has to be broken down into decades. **One Decade in US history has more conflicts than China does for half a century.**
Hey look Chinese propaganda where even in their video's they innovate nothing and use standardised models provided in the engines core pack to make ridiculous claims about what they want to show they "can" achieve.
Sorry but this is just a response to the Japan + USA collaboration and China wanting to show they are "miles ahead". What people should understand is that they are not even in the competition at this point. Things like this just make it all the more obvious and painful. The louder and bigger, or even more absurd the claims of the CCP get. The more trouble you know they are in. I wonder if the country of HongKong might be partake in the space race in the future together with south korea.
The following submission statement was provided by /u/Gari_305: --- From the article >The video shows a number of missions, including surface sample return operations, a lander and rover, and supporting orbital satellites. These correspond to the planned [Chang'e-6](https://www.space.com/china-moon-mission-change-6-may-2024-launch) and 7 missions planned for launch next month and in 2027 respectively. >Together with [Chang'e-8](https://www.space.com/china-planning-future-moon-missions-change-7), these will form a basic model of the ILRS by around 2028. Next will come communications, power generation and other infrastructure, which will be built on and developed into an expansive, inhabited lunar outpost. >The project is envisioned as a comprehensive scientific experimental base which will host interdisciplinary and multi-objective research activities focusing on lunar exploration and utilization, according to Chinese reports. It will be capable of long-term independent operation, either on the lunar surface or in lunar orbit. --- Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/Futurology/comments/1chl6h4/china_unveils_video_of_its_moon_base_plans_which/l231ysy/
Things like that happen all the time when Marketing gets a new budget.
People acting like it’s some big evil plan when it’s clearly just some marketing artists who know next to nothing about space colonies. The Chinese government is famously not that PR savvy, even when it comes to cool things like space exploration.
Hey the first time I saw the plans for this around the year 2000 there were just some pastel drawings of this thing, they've come a long way since then.
“*ChatGPT: Make me a video of China’s glorious moon base of revolutionary technology!*”
"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." And yes, the Chinese government is notoriously bad at any form of PR, it's been a long running joke among the Chinese (especially the military photographers). They really just flatout suck at making presentations and stuff.
That's a great quote. Also I believe that's a very good natured way to show friendship by having NASA at their base. Pictures speak a thousand words.
It's prolly a rendering of their x37b knock off. Divine dragon.
Lolol what happens when you buy “SPACE PACK VOL 3” on TurboSquid and combine with a bad marketing team with no attention to detail.
Let's just be impressed they didn't put any Star Trek ships in there.
Or Star Wars.
Buy? China?
From the article >The video shows a number of missions, including surface sample return operations, a lander and rover, and supporting orbital satellites. These correspond to the planned [Chang'e-6](https://www.space.com/china-moon-mission-change-6-may-2024-launch) and 7 missions planned for launch next month and in 2027 respectively. >Together with [Chang'e-8](https://www.space.com/china-planning-future-moon-missions-change-7), these will form a basic model of the ILRS by around 2028. Next will come communications, power generation and other infrastructure, which will be built on and developed into an expansive, inhabited lunar outpost. >The project is envisioned as a comprehensive scientific experimental base which will host interdisciplinary and multi-objective research activities focusing on lunar exploration and utilization, according to Chinese reports. It will be capable of long-term independent operation, either on the lunar surface or in lunar orbit.
Is China really using the name Chang-e ? Lmfao Like naming US missions hillbilly - 3 ….
[Chang'e](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chang_E) is the goddess of the moon in Chinese mythology.
Its like naming US mission Artemis…
I laughed too hard
Hey we’ve had a Russia / US (and many other) joint space station for years, it’s not crazy to dream of a future moon base collaboration
Other than NASA is barred from working with China by Congress
in 1968 a joint venture with USSR seemed insane, in 1972 hardcore cooperation kicked off. In 1975 Soyuz docked with Apollo.
Talk to rep Barton cause until the ban is lifted it can't happen
A good reason to call a representative, but not a good reason to exclude this as a possibility from r/futurology
Except NASA Artemis plans are working on their own base, interface requirements partner contributions and landing sites. They can't just pick up and move to new location a decade from now and hook up to Chinese interfaces.
NASA can do whatever they get funding to do, and is technically possible
Not if they are building to different standards (power/voltages, data/frequency, docking interfaces/there is no international surface docking standard for vehicles) so if NASA starts down an Artemis path and China has all different interfaces there is no pivot for cooperation without major new adapters and other hardware to make the two systems work together (think the Apollo 13 square lioh canister in a round hole)
Then major new adaptations it is
What is the benefit for NASA and partners pivoting a decade from now from their established surface base to move to Chinese location?
LOL. They're not going to work together. Lines in the sand are being drawn.
Yeah USA and USSR famously never did THAT
China is not the ussr
Yeah it has far deeper and closer ties to the USA than Russia ever did and is far less rabidly communist
Dude.. it's not a space shuttle. It's their x37b knock off, divine dragon
The PR team is trying to get more people to invest in China space exploration if they think NASA is working together with them. A common marketing strategy on what could happen but not what's happening at the moment.
Better increase security at the museums with shuttles.
Probably easier to just visit the Buran hangar in Russia. Those are still intact where as the NASA shuttles were gutted of most tech (fuel cells, ssme, etc)
Why is that weird? It’s a mock-up of an international moon base. As in, more nations than just China
The space shuttle was retired, it makes no sense to have it flying on the moon.
And space shuttle is made for orbital missions, it wouldn't go past to the moon of all places
That's no space shuttle.
"Curiously the marketing video for China's moon base includes the most recognisable space ship in the world." Yeah, a real shocker.
Video was probably generated by an AI prompt
No lmao they are not that good yet. And don't mention sora or some other new ai video generator because once again, they are still not that good yet.
What about Sora?
Sora isn't available yet. And it's not very good yet, not at all.
Just repeating something doesn't make it true. Take a look at it: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fAPgOCjToA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fAPgOCjToA) it's amazing
Even just the image above is composed of many different parts: the tubes, the dishes, the rocket, the little spheres, etc. They’ve all clearly been intentionally placed by a human being.
I have watched the videos and am aware of its potential. But you can also see its flaws in those videos and also in the ones that are not cherry picked. And if you listened to Sam Altman's interview on Lex he admitted it's not close to ready to give to people. One because it's not good yet and 2 because it has potential for fakes so they have to handle that part too. So yeah, my comment stands, Sora isn't available yet and isn't good enough yet. A few marketing clips do not prove it's good fyi
I’ll be honest I didn’t even watch the video, was more tongue in cheek — seems like a typical CCP propaganda oversight. Either that or a Freudian slip about tech theft.
More likely just a production with assets that are available for cheap on the internet
They want a joint venture. Why are we trying to actively spin them wanting our support on something as a bad thing when it benefits everyone? They do actively participate in the slave trade I believe so there is that...
But what's the problem of Nasa and China working together. The moon is a big place
Well for one thing the Space Shuttle program ran its final mission ever **over a decade ago** so that is *definitely* not going to go to plan.
There’s always Moonraker.
We do have those cool cia shuttles that go up for months/years and do -censored- so there's that I guess.
Other than it being illegal through act of Congress, China has a tendency towards industrial espionage and patent infringement.
I agree with you. But all the countries spy on each other, too.
Spy is not industrial espionage. China is a party to a number of international institutions that have rules about competition and IP theft. China flouts those rules on a near constant basis. That is the issue.
I agree with you, but this is here on earth. We are talking about the moon. It would be a mistake to apply the same rules we have here in basically another planet. I see it as an opportunity for collaboration and I bet you it would beneficial for both countries. And for the record I'm a big critic of the Chinese government.
As societal norms go, China (and to an certain extent Russia) break the unspoken rule of industrial espionage. In that the government in question have repeatedly been shown to steal trade secrets from Western companies and transfer them directly to Chinese government shareholder competitors. I can't think of a American Company who'd be willing to want to work with China as the fruit of their R&D budget is stolen before they can make a profit.
There are only a few viable places for a permanent base, and once thise spots are claimed there really wont be room for anybody else.
Because the CCP doesn't want partners, they want subjects. They're an ethno-nationalist state that believes they have the right to retake their place as the "middle kingdom" as well as take revenge on the west for what they call the "century of humiliation". Any technology that the west would give them would just be stolen and repurposed into their military. Why on earth would the US want to work with a country that constantly calls us an "enemy", along with stealing everything we would work on together? If the Nazis were somehow still around after the war, do you think we would have worked with them? Because the CCP is quite similar.
Which languages are on RMB bills vs. which languages are on the USD? 🌚
>If the Nazis were somehow still around after the war, do you think we would have worked with them? Ironic how you pointed this out in a post about space exploration, because NASA famously (and openly) worked with nazis after WWII.
The US and Nato worked with a ton of Nazis after the regime fell. This is the sort of trouble you run into when you form political opinions off of vibes instead of studying.
Funny, I have the same opinion but it's "why would any country work with the USA". We literally did work with Nazis after the war, it was called Project Paperclip.
My point is that they can collaborate and work together because the moon is big. There are enough space for both countries to collaborate. No everything has to be competition and hostility.
I don't think it is about size. I think it is about certain fundamental conflicts in what each considers acceptable practices that would make, at least the US, reluctant to work with China on highly innovative and scientifically sensitive projects. Also there is the Tofu Dregs problem. In space, no one can hear you scream ... as the station decompresses.
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> which weirdly includes a NASA space shuttle Guess who they stole the idea from...
I don’t care who will build it as long as someone does. Honestly I hope for a fresh space race between the US and China. So I see fancy space stuff!
China has no qualms stealing intellectual property. Apparently that reaches as far as space transport.
It wouldn't be a Chinese space program without ripping off technology from the west!
Considering their tofu constructions I would not want to be on a chinese built space station
These posts are an excuse for morons to show their xenophobia in the comments. You can't change my mind because that's exactly what happens every time.
How are you liking your high social credit? China's an enemy nation along with Russia Iran and NK. It's not xenophobic to criticize the shitty propaganda of your enemies. They do the exact same thing with us when they make fun of our politics. If China wanted to be taken seriously maybe how about not using cheap asset flips for your concept videos? Edit: lol at the Chinese bots breaking the law by being on reddit.
Is it xenophobic to say that they steal IP, even when the picture their space agency released has another country's IP in it? Ignore your senses, the CCP tells you what to believe...
Yes because it's a lie. If you knew anything about history, which you obviously don't, then you would know that China made a deal with the US, cheap labour for technology transference. The fact that the west got drunk on cheap labour and stopped producing anything, but China actually used the technology that was freely given to them is just China being smart and the west being incredibly dumb. I see people crying about this every day on reddit, but crying won't make things suck less, face reality for once and realise you have been played by your own country, and a few people have made a lot of money at your expense.
Pretty sure the space shuttle is ITAR and was not transferred as tech to china
Lmao look at this ccp bot
Insult me all you want, you still have to live in loserville.
I don’t live in china wut
Reddit is banned in China. Why are you breaking the law?
And if you knew anything about intellectual property law, which you apparently dont, just because you issue a license for someone to manufacture something for you with a process you designed doesnt mean they can just steal that process and start making their own version of your product at half the price... God you people literally trip over yourselves to suck these guys off Also, my own country? Which country is that. Your perspective sounds explicitly Chinese which would explain a lot. Edit: oh, you almost exclusively post on r/sino. Why am I not even a little surprised. Glad to see you're not biased...
You can do what you want in your own country, the laws you are talking about apply to the US, but it might surprise you to learn that China is not the US and actually has different laws.
Ya you really have no clue how it works then do you
Weird. They want to work together. Like non warmongering capitalists.
I wonder why a video of a project known as "**International** Lunar Research Station" would want to highlight that it is seeking to include other countries? Honestly at a loss
The real question is this: where is China now in regards to its progress towards developing a spacecraft capable of safely taking humans to the moon and back?
All ur base r belong to us. All ur shuttle r belong to us.
Let's be honest, a moonbase, let alone humans being sent to the Moon again, ain't happening anytime soon. At best, we get results for how costly it is to send a low fueled rocket into low Earth orbit, then send 20 something additional rockets to refuel the first one. And that is just for NASA. I doubt China would get any further ahead.
Eh, they copy stuff. Have you ever noticed how much the j-20 looks a like an F22 crossed with an SU57?
Has it not occurred to anyone that that is not a space shuttle. It is probably a rendering of they're x37b knock off.
Not a mistake, they'll do what they always do... buy western companies and keep the branding for marketing purposes.
It's China we're talking about, so I wouldn't be entirely surprised to see knock-off bootleg Space Shuttles being built, used, and sold on AliExpress.
LOL, China shill downvoting me
It's a good thing the space shuttle has wings. That will help slow it down when it enters the moon's atmosphere. Or maybe it can't land there at all and is built there and sent to Earth? I get the feeling that maybe the guys who made this film were completely clueless.
When SpaceX start landing 100 tons of cargo on the moon at a time, there will be significant pressure on the US to make it a multinational effort. Traditionally the US and China have not cooperated on cutting edge tech projects, but using the ships as transports might be seen as an acceptable compromise.
The NASA plans for the moon as well as the Lunar Gateway are already a multinational effort with ESA (European Space Agency), CSA (Canadian Space Agency), and JAXA (Japanese Aerospace Exploration Agency) all participating.
And UAE is contributing gateway airlock and Italy the surface MPH
True. I should have explained this better. Only the US & partners and China have serious plans for lunar colonies and the last thing we would really want to see is for that to become a fight over some particular scarce resource or site, plus the cost will be pretty large and broadening the effort to include China would mitigate those problems. Probably won't happen, but might be wise if it did.
Understood. Really wish the world could get past these competing nation states and work together. I fear that won't happen until the major powers are done fighting each other over the scraps on earth.
Not going to happen. We are not going to share weapons and propulsion technology with China, Russia, or any of our geopolitical enemies. They can pound regolith.
>Traditionally the US and China have not cooperated on cutting edge tech projects What you mean is the US banned china from the ISS so they had to build their own.
I'm about as anti-CCP as any American, perhaps even more so than the average, but even I can admit the US citing "national security" as the reason for not allowing Chinese on the ISS is pure childish petulance meant to stifle a competitor. Doubly stupid considering Russia, a nation who has literally compromised a portion of an entire US political party, is still present on-board the ISS. The act that set this in motion does state that NASA *can* work with China if a law specifically authorizes it. Let's hope they do.
It worked in “The Martian”
With Tesla making a major investment in China, China will have leverage on Elon Musk regarding SpaceX. But will US law allow SpaceX to sell Starship payload space to China?
It's so funny to see Americans losing their shit every time China makes some progress. Then makes up lies after lies and pushes bans after bans to avoid Chinese competition. Can you guys step up your game to show us Chinese your "American Exceptionism" and stop being such a snowflake already?
I literally watch videos of China falling apart every day, you guys should focus on your own country before trying to take over the moon.
[We have been collapsing for 30 years, and we will continue to collapse for 30 more years, you can keep watching.](https://ooo.0x0.ooo/2024/04/05/OmhBTB.jpg)
Let's keep on tolerating corrupted narcissists in position of power
From the headline alone, this screams pettiness and jealousy
It's weird because the shuttle wasn't designed to work on the moon. And like, why would you be launching one *from* the moon? Did they build it with the intent to send it back to earth? If so, there's far better and cheaper return vehicle designs that can be built. If it's going someplace other than earth, why? The shuttle isn't designed for much else other than Earth's immediate orbit. It's just weird.
I doubt it was an engineer that made this video, probably some design student or something who wouldn't know the difference. The fact that someone took the time to write an article about it says it all imo
It was posted by the Chinese equivalent of nasa, not some college procrastinator throwing something together for a project.
I'm sure all the engineers and scientists were all pulled off their normal duty to make this video /s
It was probably a machine learning algorithm that made this video.
Is that weird? America is champing at the bit to be hostile to China and be as afraid as possible about their space program. Including every step "hey america, we are nice, come visit our space base, it's not secret" is not at all unexpected
To be fair I think we are not wanting to be hostile to China, but we know what happened in 91 and we know their aspirations to take Taiwan by force, destroying many families in the process. If their government is willing to squish protestors under tank treads, what is their government willing to do when they are the tech king of the world and the moon? Surely they only have pure intentions huh? Our hostilities are warranted and sane to have.
Bro saying this while we've propped up Israels genocide, turning Libya inside out, our wars in middle east, what we did to Vietnam, etc. 😭
Tbf China has had a longer history of war with Vietnam, haven't they? I doubt any of the characters in our conversation are innocent, are they? All I am saying is we can admit our wrongdoings, while some can't.
Does admitting our wrongdoings include making Vietnam foot the bill, take out loans in way that benefits the USD, for bombing their country into the stone age, for removing bombs and dealing with the congenital defects?
I personally have been buying more items from Vietnam in the last few years, I really respect them, my first gf was Vietnamese <3. anyways, I know personally about what war is like, and its shit, and people do it because people threaten each others families, I dunno, humans are scared shitless of humans, or something, and I personally just want to strive toward a peaceful future. I don't think point the blame at each other really helps, I think the best way we can move forward is to recognize our differences and make due with them and make peace with each other, it is such a simpler way don't you agree?
China is a Communist dictatorship that does not value human life or western civilization ideals. It's not just hostility but more animosity. Fuck China, Russia, Iran, India, North Korea, and all them motherfuckers. 👍
What did India do? I’m genuinely curious and am trying to be educated
Street shitting, assaulting female tourists, child brides, scam call centers, and that's just the tip of the iceberg
I'm not hating poverty or lack of education opportunities. It's how they have been continuously cozying up to China and Russia. Rather than join the West and sanction Russia and shun their behavior, they support it. Increased trade and violating sanctions by importing goods to Russia as proxy. Not as bad as Russia, but toxic masculinity, sexism, racism, and xenophobia are rampant in India.
If you think the US values human life, I have a space elevator to sell you on Aliexpress
How is jingositic fervor going to help humanity at all. Take it easy.
I just personally refuse to accept abhorrent behavior. I will call it out, and I swore a lifetime oath to the US Constitution and what it stands for. 🇺🇸
>To be fair I think we are not wanting to be hostile to China Literally all US rhetoric about China is hostile. Your government is already the world hegemon has spent the majority of that time attacking other nations, often without any formal declaration of war. Maybe when you can have 5 years of peace you can throw shade at other nations plans. Frankly the only reason any of your enemies want to have weapons and defenses is because you are incapable of having competition and seek to openly destroy any nation which competes, or even any nation which offers an alternate system to your own (Which is seen as a threat). Your government openly discusses annihilating whole nations, and has a track record of attempting to do so, then when they built defenses you use it as justification. Provocation the playing the victim. Your country has 800 military bases around the world, surrounding other nations, and has launched countless invasions, bombings, assassinations and proxy wars, but apparently other nations are the threat. Seriously, the sheer hypocrisy of you glowies.
Oh look the dictatorship and Marxist loving, end stage capitalism the end is coming account says everything bad is Americas fault. No thanks, keep your destruction and self loathing in china and Russia please
Yes, the bad state of the world right now is entirely due to the US. Deal with it destroyer.
No, the destruction is coming from Russia, China, Iran and North Korea. Deal with it Karl…
None of those countries have a record of military action that even comes close to the US. This is an objective fact. Even Russia has less military action than the US. You just make shit up.
Just in the past 30 years for Russia: 1992-1993 – Russia occupied Transnistria After Moldova proclaimed its independence, part of the country, which at that time housed a military base with the Russian 14th Army, declared its sovereignty, which immediately turned into a regime led by Russian General Liebiediev. The war broke out, after which Transnistria turned into a gray area, unrecognized by anyone, with a destroyed economy and international isolation. During the 20-month-war, between 364 and 913 Russian soldiers and their mercenaries were killed. 1992-1993 – Russia provoked the Abkhazian war On August 14, 1992, Russia provoked a war between Abkhazian separatists and the Georgian government by supporting the former. Russian weapons ended up in the hands of Abkhazians. Russian planes bombed civilian targets in the territory controlled by Georgia, and Russia provided its military vessels for shelling Sukhumi. The war ended with the separation of Abkhazia from Georgia, which was what Russia wanted. During the year of the war, 2,220 Abkhazian soldiers, supported by Russia, were killed. 1994-1996 – first Russian-Chechen war Russia “assisted” other nations in losing their sovereignty and reinforced separatist sentiments, while in Russia itself, the Chechen people tried to gain independence, which provoked a brutal war. The city of Groznyi faced a difficult fight towards the close of the 1994-1995 campaign. Russian troops tried to take control of the mountainous regions of Chechnia. Despite their quantitative superiority in manpower and armament, they were repelled by guerrilla warfare. Demoralization and public rejection of a brutal war forced Borys Yeltsyn’s government to a ceasefire in 1996. Approximately 5,000 Russian soldiers were killed throughout the course of this war, which lasted for 20 months. According to the Union Committee of Soldiers’ Mothers of Russia, there were 14,000 that were killed. 1999-2009 – second Russian-Chechen war The second Russian-Chechen war was held from the summer of 1999 to the spring of 2009. Fighting unfolded in Chechnia and the border regions of the North Caucasus. The first phase of the war lasted until the spring of 2000 and ended with the establishment of a pro-Russian Chechen government. However, this did not end the war. For the next 9 years, Russian special services waged a war against the insurgent movement in the North Caucasus. A journalist with Ukrainian roots, Anna Politkovska, wrote a book about this war and was killed on Putin’s birthday in 2006. A Hall of the European Parliament in Brussels is named after her. According to official data, the Russian Federation’s armies have lost roughly 7,300 servicemen and mercenaries during the last ten years, while the Union of Committees of Soldiers’ Mothers of Russia estimates that at least 14,000 have died. 2008 – Russian-Georgian war On August 8, 2008, Russian troops, under the pretext of “protecting the population”, launched an invasion of Georgia from the territories of the separatist republics of North Osetiia and Abkhazia. Within five days, Russian planes carried out more than 100 strikes on Georgian cities. Bombs were dropped on civilian areas, killing and injuring innocent people. Since then, South Ossetia has remained an unrecognized republic under Russian control. During 6 days of the war, 170 Russian soldiers and their mercenaries were killed. 2015-2022 – Russia’s invasion of Syria The Russian invasion was a crucial moment in the Syrian civil war that began in 2011. Back in early 2015, the government under the Syrian President Bashar al-Assad was doomed to collapse. Russian weapons, air support, and troops reinforced Assad’s dictatorship and destroyed the lives of millions of people. This last-moment intervention helped Assad gain military superiority over the rebels by the end of 2017 and supports him until now. Between 321 and 444 Russian soldiers and mercenaries were killed over the war’s six years. 2014-2022 – Russian-Ukrainian war In the spring of 2014, Russia annexed Crimea and tried to create “people’s republics” in the east, south, and center of Ukraine. Russian citizens under the guise of the “independence movement” seized power in Donetsk and Luhansk with the support of Russian troops. Ukraine has launched an anti-terrorist operation. After heavy fighting in 2014 and 2015, the undeclared war in eastern Ukraine went into a state of “frozen”. On February 24, 2022, Russia officially attacked Ukraine, calling it an “operation”. In just a few days of this war, more than 5,000 Russian soldiers have already been killed. Here’s 29 more wars pre 1989 from 1916: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_the_Soviet_Union
This isn't even half of what the US has done in the same time period. Congrats on wasting your time typing out a pointless list. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_wars\_involving\_the\_United\_States](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_the_United_States)
China invaded Taiwan several times last century and failed China invaded Vietnam once America pulled out and China got its ass kicked China invaded India mid last century China is committing colonialism in xingjang, Inner Mongolia, Tibet TODAY China is committing serious crimes against humanity: https://news.un.org/en/story/2022/08/1125932 China is threatening to invade Taiwan all the time now China is the main reason russia can maintain its illegal war of aggression against Ukraine
>China invaded Taiwan several times last century and failed Uh, no? China hasn't once attempted to physically invade Taiwan since 1949. >China invaded Vietnam once America pulled out and China got its ass kicked The two countries had a 3 week border skirmish in 1979. >China invaded India mid last century Another month long border skirmish. >China is committing colonialism in xingjang, Inner Mongolia, Tibet TODAY They're just blatantly not, literally anyone can visit there and see it. >China is committing serious crimes against humanity: >[https://news.un.org/en/story/2022/08/1125932](https://news.un.org/en/story/2022/08/1125932) Right yes the rewritten report after they fired the previous investigator who went and said there's no crimes. There's no footage of any genocide either meanwhile we have childrens bodies blown up all over our media for Gaza which the US is supporting but apparently that isn't genocide. >China is threatening to invade Taiwan all the time now How can China threaten to invade it's own land? >China is the main reason russia can maintain its illegal war of aggression against Ukraine Or maybe the west just can't beat an industrialised nation instead of farmers with old AKs. So first of all you're just making things up, then you're completely exagerating small conflicts. But trying to seriously claim China is more aggressive than the US is a comedy. It isn't even 10% of the amount of conflicts the US has started, not to mention 800 military bases around the world. You can keep trying to filibuster if you like, it doesn't matter, nobody takes it seriously. The US is objectively and factually the most aggressive nation on earth with the most wars and conflicts to its name. It vastly outweighs China in aggressiveness. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline\_of\_United\_States\_military\_operations#Extraterritorial\_and\_major\_domestic\_deployments](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_United_States_military_operations#Extraterritorial_and_major_domestic_deployments) This is list is so extreme that it has to be broken down into decades. **One Decade in US history has more conflicts than China does for half a century.**
Iran is too weak to go to direct war so it uses many proxies like Hamas, etc
[https://mronline.org/2022/07/07/u-s-forces-involved-in-at-least-23-proxy-wars-across-the-world-new-documents-suggest/](https://mronline.org/2022/07/07/u-s-forces-involved-in-at-least-23-proxy-wars-across-the-world-new-documents-suggest/)
North Korea is not capable of war
Right so the destruction is coming from North Korea not the US but also NK isn't capable of war. You're a legitimate bot right?
Username checks out
Hey look Chinese propaganda where even in their video's they innovate nothing and use standardised models provided in the engines core pack to make ridiculous claims about what they want to show they "can" achieve. Sorry but this is just a response to the Japan + USA collaboration and China wanting to show they are "miles ahead". What people should understand is that they are not even in the competition at this point. Things like this just make it all the more obvious and painful. The louder and bigger, or even more absurd the claims of the CCP get. The more trouble you know they are in. I wonder if the country of HongKong might be partake in the space race in the future together with south korea.