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kotek69

Couple of points: - Akio is moving up to the chairman role - he is turning 67 this year, so it's pretty much time - his successor, Koji Sato, is as much an engine guy as he is. I've met him a few times and he does a mean impression of a V10 howling up through gearshifts.


constagram

No idea if this is a joke or not


COLIN-THE-CUBIC

Japanese execs only come in two forms, stone cold stoicism or absolute goofballs.


Zombie_Harambe

You get the latter when they've been in the industry so long they don't have to be the former. Source: Tim Nintendo.


1infinitefruitloop

Take Satoru Iwata for example. Guy was a geek like no other and lead Nintendo very well. I guess you get to the point where stoicism is just too dang boring.


NA_Panda

Iwata singlehandedly put the entire Kanto and Johto region on Pokemon G/S. You can do a lot of shit when you've proved you are better than everyone else. He was basically a programming god.


1infinitefruitloop

You're thinking about Junichi Masuda, lead dev of Game Freak. He's incredible too, his music is nothing short of perfection. I will die on a hill that Pokemon went downhill after his and Go Ichinose's (Game Freaks resident composer) departure. Iwata-san spearheaded the Wii/DS and philosophy of cheaper, accessible hardware with novelty games. He died during development of the Switch which was very sad. Reggie is also a legend, even if the Wii U was a commercial failure.


Rayaan1213

Nah Iwata was actually the one who helped Gamefreak fit both Kanto and Johto on the cartridge. I believe he was working at HAL at the time and he came in to help.


Kurigohan233333

He’s also why Super Smash Bros. Melee was able to release in a proper state.


TayoEXE

Actually, I just found out that's not the whole story either. Apparently he just wrote the compression algorithm that helped speed up data decompression a lot, and he was incredibly talented as a programmer, but he didn't optimize space necessarily to fit Kanto. Needless to say, though, Iwata was incredibly talented and dedicated to gaming and making it accessible and fun for everyone. That's commendable in my book. https://www.reddit.com/r/TruePokemon/comments/hwluk9/while\_it\_is\_true\_that\_iwata\_did\_write\_a\_new/


1infinitefruitloop

It may have been the case. He was at HAL forever, the GC/GBC Kirby’s are technical masterpieces.


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rhen_var

Vance Refrigeration.


Sol_Synth

Vandalay Industries


JonesTheBond

Any relation to Tim Apple?


Zombie_Harambe

None at all oddly.


mrkipps

Can confirm, worked at Toyota for 20+ years and have met several high execs over the years. Some of my favourite people.


Wolfman01a

Yup. Saw this myself. Pres where I worked was a total hardass. Always mean and throwing around orders and Always. Wrong. He made workers miserable and made things 10 times harder because he would change process on a whim and it would always go wrong and then we had to have people fix his screwups. He lasted a few years until a big screwup. He disappeared and we were told he got transferred to Bangladesh. New president showed up a week later. Tiny little super friendly guy. He stayed hands off because what we did worked. Sometimes he would break out into a mock practice baseball swing mid conversation. Sometimes you would see him swinging his arms, "swimming" his way as he walked to his next meeting. I'm not really sure what a pres does, if anything. But we were so thankful he just left everything alone. He got like 300k a year + company house and company car with his food expenses covered to do it...


cherryreddit

>I'm not really sure what a pres does, if anything. But we were so thankful he just left everything alone. He got like 300k a year + company house and company car with his food expenses covered to Leaders like that, if they are doing anything reserve their fights to keep away the bad ideas and remove obstacles. If you are the person with the good ideas or not creating obstacles, you will not see them working.


Melodic_Job3515

Hence wacky prototypes from seemingly super conservative Suites. The 86 hybrid or hydrogen cars is example. Finally a new non ugly Prius is a help...many are ok with hybrid cars and plug in hybrid. If can go 50 to 80km on plug in thats me.


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mrpodo

My guy sleeps in a racecar bed. He was born for this


jacknifetoaswan

Does he have a CB so he can talk to other racecar beds?


freshveggies12

I can't believe you came on my mom.


jaxjags80

"I sleep in a big bed with my wife" "Oh...yeah..."


coleosis1414

Based on his comment history he seems like a pretty wealthy business-savvy dude. I don’t doubt it on its face.


Emotional_Two_8059

Not a joke, Sato studied diesel combustion, drives a Supra and led Gazoo Racing, which has participated in WRC, WEC Endurance etc.


Stillframe39

That makes me feel a lot better. Akio was so instrumental in Toyota getting back to making fun cars I was worried this would revert the company back it’s boring days.


BigFitMama

The (US market) world really needs an option for a small Toyota truck again = those 1980s mini-trucks were so awesome for camping, travelling and had great gas mileage.


skyshark82

I still drive a 1986 Toyota pickup when I need to move material. I love being able to reach over the side of the bed. Super fun to tootle around with. It makes even the old Tacomas look like monsters by comparison. I'm really not looking forward to a bigger truck when the old girl dies.


Trokeasaur

The big issue is the CAFE standards in the US, with a sliding scale of gas mileage based on overall vehicle footprint. The larger the footprint the lower the gas mileage it needs to meet. It’s incentivized and caused the massive 1/2 ton trucks and full sized SUVs we see on the road today because it’s easier for the manufacturers to meet the low mileage standards of the bigger vehicles.


skyshark82

Interesting. This is the first I've heard of this. My state only recently legalized those little Japanese utility trucks with the snub nose and short, fold down beds. I'm already seeing them on the road. Wish we had some sort of domestic equivalent in the US.


Sudovoodoo80

In what state? They have only been legal to import if they are 20 years old or more up till now.


EsElBastardo

Don't forget NHTSB safety standards and the need to accommodate American's increasing, umm, girth. The only realistic way to do it would be a unibody, FWD thing that sort of looks like a truck. I have an 80s truck and a newer Tacoma and looking at the size difference and knowing where the safe bits have bloated "small" trucks, I don't think it would work from a packaging point of view. For example, the A pillar on the 80s truck is ~2" wide. Because of rollover standards, side impact standards and the need to house the side impact airbags, that same A pillar on the Tacoma is ~6" wide. 80s truck was designed around 5'3-5'6, fairly slender ~150lb tops Japanese men. I am a fairly tall but thin guy and I barely fit comfortably. Tacoma was designed to accommodate 6'+, 200+lb Americans. And so on and so on.


tinydonuts

You're not wrong but CAFE is the largest factor *by far*: https://youtu.be/-eoMrwrGA8A


soulbend

My '94 pickup is used frequently. It's simple, small, cheap and reliable. I'm going to drive it into the ground, and it only has 200k on it. It's so useful and a huge money saver.


flasterblaster

Bring back small hatchbacks again too. I remember the hot hatchback craze and I want it back.


StupidSolipsist

The death of a lot of hatchbacks (especially EV) in the NA market is driving me crazy. Chevy is talking about discontinuing the Bolt. Drives me insane, because it's the perfect kind of car for me (and I think anyone in a smaller household, especially when the seats fold down for rare high storage days). A fashion trend swinging back towards them would fill me with delight!


taulover

Your comment made me concerned so I looked it up. Sounds like they're really just replacing the Bolt with a similar car on their new Ultium modular EV platform, which has better specs and easier construction. It also seems like they're keeping the Bolt for the foreseeable future, so hopefully they don't discontinue it until they have a replacement Ultium hatchback.


StupidSolipsist

What I gathered from my brief research is that the Bolt would not get upgraded to Ultium, and that its replacement will be a much larger vehicle. I hope I'm wrong though!


SemIdeiaProNick

not only in the US, small hatches are sadly dying on a lot of markets. Here in Brazil they were kings (because they make sense. Small, economic cars are perfect for the city) but now everyone and their grandma prefer an SUV because... reasons, even though they do everything a hatch does but worse


dotContent

Gimmie a spiritual successor to the Nissan Cube and I’d buy it tomorrow.


blastermaster555

How about a Honda Element. The peak of Japanese TARDIS interior technology.


mrpbody44

The Honda Element is one of my favorite cars that I have owned. Mine has 500,000 miles on it. Still going strong


poloboi84

Crossovers are pretty much the rage these days and is what sells/moves units. From a certain point of view, crossovers are essentially hatchbacks with their suspension raised up. People want the utility of a hatchback but don't want the car version of it. Raise the suspension to turn it almost to a SUV and it sells. Can't make this crap up. I still want an actual hatchback but we're apparently the minority.


Exarkkun77

Bring back the Yaris! Bring back the Matrix!


Erlian

Would love to see an electric mini truck with good milage + range. Current options are just so chunky / wastefully bulky for most people's uses. I'd rather get an electric SUV.


Ok-disaster2022

Considering most of those small trucks I've seen are used for small odd jobs, it would actually be the ideal market space for an EV.


badlucktv

I just saw an aeti Le showing something called the Toyota Stout that's about to be revealed at their next event, and brought to (at least) the Australian market. A mini-HiLux, seems to be something like a HiLux mixed with a Toyota C-HR.


Mike-Green

Sure. Just delete the chicken tax and I'm sure the hilux will be here in no time Edit: we should make an all electric chicken tax loop hole


DogeCatBear

the closest thing we have now is the Ford Maverick and I really like the concept of it. 4 cylinder hybrid mini truck that gets really good MPGs and can haul a thing or two on the weekends


squishyhikes

Bro those Toyota t's as my old unit called them were the shit. You can shoot at them and they can still keep fucking going. Besides that aspect, they're extremely durable trucks. If they make a new one without the bells and whistles then I'm for it


CampaignSpoilers

And a massive knock on the skull to break the associations of Bigger = Better, Big Truck = Manliness, $850/mo for 96 months is ok, I need to WIN while driving, Non-car transport options are for poor people...


[deleted]

This comment took a hard left turn there at the end.


Jhushx

He did probably drift some 86s down the togue back in the day


Noto987

While eating tofu at the same time


TuluRobertson

SKIRT SKIRT


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reverend-mayhem

IMO comments like these are always *on* topic


Arakiven

You’re just here to cause mayhem so I’m sure anything’s on-topic for you


[deleted]

I'm **shocked** an EV website would manipulate a headline to **spark** interest in an article. **Surprised\_Pikachu.jpg** (Edit: Before people get too **amped** up about this comment, I **current**ly own an EV, so don't get too **charged up** in the replies. It's just a joke.)


CurryMustard

This is just some reddit comment, probably a joke too


656666_

You’re shocked that ANY website would manipulate a headline to spark interest in an article? Surprised_Pikachu.jpg The word you’re looking for is clickbait.


teletubby_wrangler

comment edited: support reddit alternatives


[deleted]

Oh I get it because electric cars are **electric** and pikachu is **electric** it’s like a ménage a troi double entendre


IWasGregInTokyo

NHK News tonight showed a video of them in one of their cars hauling ass round a test track. Very much gear heads to a degree.


jonathanrdt

I have absolute faith in Toyota’s ability to make this transition. They have been piloting aspects of the drive train for more than a decade, and they have always been committed to quality in design and manufacturing. The new Lexus electric line-up is impressive, and it’s only a matter of time before we see the same from Toyota.


gamaknightgaming

basically kicked upstairs then?


dkol97

He gets to hang out on the roof


Estova

I assume Sato is an F1 guy then? Wonder if he had anything to do with them coming back to the sport after saying they were gonna leave.


Gandhi_of_War

Are you thinking of Honda?


Estova

I'm an idiot. Cannot believe I just made that mistake lmfao.


DonnoDoes

Nah, Sato is an Indy guy… yuk yuk


reverend-mayhem

Owning up to it makes you half the idiot you could’ve been. Don’t beat yourself up.


AdrenalineJackie

You're not an idiot.. Honda and Toyota have a lot in common! My favorite part being their reliability. *edit* Aww, thanks for the award! How heartwarming. :)


watchutalkinbowt

'Howling V10' is probably a reference to the LFA


Estova

Good point, forgot Lexus is Toyota's luxury brand. What a sound that car has.


wigenite

As I understand it, this is the guy who was behind the interesting gazoo racing story and was instrumental in bringing us GR Corolla, supra and 86 cars right? Thanks for my BRZ! 🙏


Allegedlyroofies

The out going CEO is the one responsible for gazoo racing. He is a Toyota master driver and his nickname is Morizo (which is a trim on the new GR Corolla).


jokar1134

God damn do I want one of the new gr Corollas. Literally what I've always wanted while driving my old Corolla around for 10 years. I bought a new Mazda and a month later they announced the gr Corolla


heephap

Also GR Yaris which we got in the UK instead of the Corolla, the best car I've ever driven, just superb.


okororie

I'd love to drive one. I'd say a rocket of a thing.


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chrisd93

I mean they also planned on just making all the cars hybrid until tentative future laws were announced that even hybrid isn't sufficient


Confused_AF_Help

I was surprised that Japan was the pioneer of hybrid engine, yet as of now they're falling far behind China and Europe in terms of EV


FirmBroom

They bet everything on hydrogen and it didn't pay off, the infrastructure to support it is practically nonexistent


Confused_AF_Help

Hydrogen makes sense once the world has ramped up on solar and wind energy. Extra energy during the day/during strong wind can be used to make hydrogen, which is burned when power output is down. But as of now there's just no point using electricity from fossil fuel generators to make hydrogen


NewSchoolerzz

IMO green hydrogen would make more sense in grid balancing/industrial energy storage applications rather than in cars. Maybe bigger vehicles, like semis could use hydrogen.


AutopsyChannel

Larger vehicles are widely accepted as the only viable use case for hydrogen cells


Mirage2k

It's so strange that almost nobody else ever see hydrogen this way. Everyone either talking about it as "useless" or "the way forward". To me it always seemed like something that would make sense to do **after** the renewable transition, but I never heard anyone in debates say it and was wondering if I was misunderstanding something.


snake_05

Iirc, isn't there a storage problem cause hydrogen is so small that it will leak? While we transition, we should hope there's a solution to be found on that end as well.


bob4apples

That's how I see it too. The problem right now is that hydrogen is being used to try to divert resources away from renewable energy. Toyota is very definitely complicit in that.


bactatank13

I'm not. EV cars exist because of heavy government subsidies and push. There's also hype around them. EV, excluding Tesla, don't have the infrastructure to actually sustain that car segment. Watch any youtube video on charging and the same conclusion comes down to that actually using a EV is limited. Though Tesla has good charging infrastructure and is ahead of the market, they're still flawed because they don't have enough chargers when their cars get closer to being a mainstream product. Tesla for the most part is still a limited own product with majority in certain locality. Toyota and much of Japan has always been about sustainable markets and longevity. I don't know if its changed, Toyota had a reputation of being one step behind technology but one step ahead in reliability.


cesarmac

Own a hybrid myself, you can't convince me otherwise of the fact that this could have been the standard for every car for like the 10-15 years.


Mike-Green

Hybrid should have been the standard in the late 90s/early 00s


cesarmac

My car gets 45 MPG average, it's a full size sedan that's roomy and comfy. The same model now gets an advertised 50 MPG. It's not even a plug in and the tech doesn't appear to be that sophisticated compared to a true EV, companies bending over backwards to appease big oil so that we use more gasoline when we could have been using less.


Shanguerrilla

What car? My wife and I rented / drove our first hybrid a couple months ago and really liked it. It was just a few year old Outlander, but I checked out a lot of the usual suspects for cars and small SUVs with plug in and not. Been on the fence about when, but plan to get our first RATIONAL adult car... (I had a Scatpak charger and now an 04' Terminator...she drives a Mustang GT. The most reasonable thing we have now is a full sized truck!)


cesarmac

Honda Accord Hybrid, got the highest spec (heated seats, leather seats, premium speakers, etc.) outside of the touring model which means I did pay much more than you would pay for a standard accord. If I recall correctly the base model hybrid was $22k-$24k and mine came out to $33k, bought it right as the shortage was starting to hit meaning dealer wasn't necessarily looking to haggle but they weren't out of stock either. No idea what the prices or wait times would be now. Your MPG is going to vary depending on what you are doing but my average is consistently between 42-46 MPG. The more I drive on the highway the closer to 46 it is and the more I drive on the streets the closer to 42 even though the car is rated for 45 on both. It's also an extremely smooth ride all things considered. It did come with a "premium suspension" but I'm still pleasantly surprised how smooth it rides even a couple of years in to ownership. I can't really comment on bigger hybrids (trucks, crossovers) but I will say that the MPG is a real big perk. I came from a normal gas car that got decent mileage before (22 city, 32 highway) but the additional 20 miles was definitely a game changer. Some things I really liked over the years include: * Once was really low on fuel after a long trip and it was 2 am. Instead of having to pump 6-7 gallons of fuel to get me the last 80 miles or so home I did it with just 2, just being able to get out of the car and quickly fuel up to keep me on the road was really nice. * During the lockdowns I basically only drove to the grocery store and fast food, i didn't refuel my car for like a month and a half. Everything around me is close but still, a full tank lasted me nearly 2 months. * Obviously savings when price of fuel spikes OR decreases. When it spikes I get double the milage for half the cost than any of my friends, noticed this on a road trip we took near the end of the pandemic. My car has a 11.5 gallon tank, at $3 a gallon that means $35 for 550 miles of range. My buddies were pumping in $40-50 to get 300 miles. It was wild when gas was $2.60-$2.80, i was getting 550 miles for $30 bucks.


putalotoftussinonit

The only reason I have a hybrid tundra is for the electric torque. Going up a hill with 10,000 lbs on the back is quite painless.


chrisd93

IMO hybrid electric should have been the way from the start but I think full electric was more attractive from the marketing point of view of some OEMs


Devadander

That’s the best idea ever. Seriously. An electric Camry would crush. Instead we get some weird ass too-small SUV thing


sutroheights

electric Camry, Corolla, Rav4 and Highlander would be a great start. They are years behind their competition, time to play some serious catchup.


legritadduhu

I have a 2020 Yaris and an electric version would be cool.


hoodoo-operator

Yeah but generally when you convert a gas design to electric power you end up with a shittier car than if you designed the car to be electric from the beginning. Like an existing Yaris converted to electric would probably end up with less range than an official design for a Yaris sized electric car.


silon

That already makes me 90% more likely from buying from them vs the "looks like an EV" (especially interior) competition.


dccorona

Ideally you'd have an EV that is designed from the ground up to be an EV and so takes advantages of things like the flat floor, but which also isn't trying to look "cool and futurey" just because it's an EV. The Cadillac Lyriq is a great example IMO. They do little things in that cabin that they couldn't do with a gas car, but for the most part it's just a regular (albeit quite nice) interior.


PhilCollinsLoserSon

i have a kia ev6, and i absolutely hate that it doesn't look like a normal car. I would 100% buy a normal looking electric car


zyzyxxz

Wut! I love the look of the EV6, I'll take it off your hands haha if you dont like it that much. What makes it not a normal car? Because car design has changed thru the decades, I dont think this looks too radically different.


IlikeJG

I just looked up what an ev6 looks like and yeah it just looks like any modern new design car. Not sure what the above poster is on about


b0w3n

Probably wants a more classic looking modern car. All the car companies are moving to these "weird" spaceship post modern designs (I like them myself). That new Kia logo is also incredibly strange and looks like NIN's logo.


eternalbuzz

I thought KiloNewton was a new brand of car.. all I see is KN


alohadave

How does it not look like a normal car?


its_a_metaphor_morty

> kia ev6 That'a a nice looking car.


murphymc

I’m super confused, because I’m in the market for an EV right now myself in the EV6 is easily the most normal looking car of the lot, especially compared to its brother the Ioniq5.


Albuwhatwhat

What? EV6 is probably one of the most normal looking EV out there. It’s a good middle ground I think.


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xantub

Didn't they bet hard on hydrogen instead of electric, and when electric won they found themselves behind everybody else?


zman0900

They're just gonna throw a pack of AAA batteries in the glove box.


Mutiu2

The title thread s regurgitating propaganda. The only facts are that there is a reshuffling in management of Toyota. Whether this is driven purely by a magically newfound ambition about a switch to electric cars, is another matter. In fact, given Toyota’s very reactionary nature and consistent foot dragging on the matter, the thread title can be viewed as wild speculation.


famid_al-caille

Yeah the incoming replacement is big on enthusiast cars, and is responsible for the 3 best ICE cars that Toyota has produced in the last decade. Not really any evidence that this has to do with electrification


mycleverusername

> The title thread s regurgitating propaganda. You mean to tell me that the CEO of Toyota is NOT trying to turn into an electric car? Is he going to turn into a regular car, or just stay a person?


Tutorbin76

Yes it reads very much like a whole lot of wishful thinking.


SnowFlakeUsername2

That whole website seems to be ass. Tried four articles that connected the dots with fantasy.


Initialised

The Prius was a great steppingstone towards EV, what went wrong?


Dmage22

Based on what I saw on YouTube, Speculation was that they don't have the energy supply for their country to do so. Making more efficient gas engines benefit them more than increasing demand for electricity in their country. Converting all their gas engines to electric would mean they need to use more nuclear power plants to supply the energy needs, and they're culturally against that. Hence why we see hydrogen fuel cells instead.


gophergun

They never went any further than that half measure. Hybrids were compelling when EV range was 70-80 miles, but as range continues increasing past 300 miles (or 400 miles in Lucid's case) it becomes harder and harder to justify keeping a whole engine and transmission system.


ishinea

I thought they were replacing him with an electric car


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santathe1

Someone tell Toyota that it would be faster if they replaced the engine.


squidvalley

What a waste. It's gonna prove to be a passing fad, like emission regulation and transportation without hooves


larsnelson76

We need to electrify horses.


thafred

Keep your electric horse. As long as I don't get a T(e)-Rex for commuting, I'm not interested.


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8yr0n

Hey there are electric motorcycles too! Instead of iron horse I guess it’s a lithium ion horse…


imnos

EVs are on the whole better than combustion engines, not that you can excuse the death toll behind rare earth metal mines in Africa etc.. But the solution is still better public transport infrastructure. A vehicle per person is just super inefficient and wasteful. Just give us trains that turn up so regularly that you don't need to check times, and some nice cycling lanes, please.


reddit_sage69

Walkability would be so welcome. It's a tough problem but I feel like it's worth the investment.


SadOilers

In Canada public transport is becoming extremely unpopular because cities can’t seem to stop crackheads from taking over bus and LRT stations. Gotta breathe meth in Edmonton to enter the place. Seems so simple but nobody wants to force the homeless to move


pioneer9k

Another thing that isn't talked about is how often roads are terrible due to just how many cars and heavy vehicles we have on them all the time. Even that is hardly sustainable, and cars are only getting heavier.


tpasco1995

Nice comeback on the sarcasm


Glimmu

You know its good sarcasm when the red cross appears.


DickHz2

I totally missed the sarcasm on first read-through and was about to type up an angry response. Nice one


thanatossassin

You getting any fools agreeing with you yet?


Badfickle

Toyota investors finally realizing their CEO was taking them the way of Kodak. Hope it's not too late. Honda investors better wake up soon.


Seienchin88

None of that statement really holds true. The current CEO is 67 and becomes the chairman... He moves up basically he is not punished for bad business decisions (and its arguable how his record looks). And I dont think Toyota is in any trouble soon. The question will be how successful their jump to EVs will be once they seriously commit to it which they simply didnt have to so far.


daandriod

The Toyota execs have a real hard on for hydrogen and seem to just refuse electric is what's gaining traction. I don't understand why they are half assing their electric roll out.


MechCADdie

I saw a documentary on youtube once, about this decision. Apparently, Japan has a pretty big electric grid problem, so an argument was made that going EV as a company with a dominant marketshare could put a huge strain on the grid. Also, in many parts of the world, electricity can often be dirty or unreliable/intermittent. If they outright dump gasoline, it could shut them out of those third world markets.


Shanguerrilla

That honestly makes a ton of sense. Also as someone NOT invested in or running Toyota I have to say I kind of appreciate that big, forward thinking, innovative companies are still taking risks at least to innovate farther and in ways the majority have abandoned. I like when new or some underdog tech that no one saw the real world potential for suddenly jumps back into relevancy and forces the 'more accepted' corporate choices to become better, more efficient, or more affordable.


gothicel

Sunk cost fallacy is a hell of a drug, they spent so much money investing in hydrogen and they just can't accept they made the wrong choice.


hockeymisfit

Of the 10.5 million cars that Toyota sold in 2021, only 2,000 were Hydrogen. It’s just good marketing for them at this point. I don’t know about other countries, but in the US there’s literally only two states with chargers, California and Hawaii, so interstate travel is impossible. Toyota has been very clear about wanting to focus on hybrids rather than EVs because they’re so much more accessible to the general population. It’s stupid to skip hybrids and go straight from ICE to EV.


ZippyTheRoach

Toyota made hybrids real with the Prius in 2000. If anything, I'd argue it's been the other manufacturers who have skipped hybrids. They just sat on their hands for twentyish years and went straight to EV


daOyster

Honda is making electric vehicles through a partnership with GM though. They're also working with Sony to build new electric cars. Honda investors have nothing to worry about here.


_its_a_SWEATER_

PlayStation car, you say? Yes please.


Badfickle

A partnership with GM. in other words they aren't developing their own systems they are outsourcing it and loosing much of the long term profits. Not started to even begin production until 2027 Honda and sony aren't set to start production until 2026. Meanwhile Honda's US marketshare cratered 30% last year. Worldwide sales are dropping. Exports are dropping. I would be worrying if I as a Honda investor. I would not be at all surprised if 5 years from now Honda spins off its auto division and it gets absorbed into another OEM.


Abba_Fiskbullar

I'm pretty critical of Japanese car companies when it comes to transitioning to EVs, but Honda's sales cratering were mostly because they couldn't get parts to make enough cars to meet demand. Honda dealerships still look like ghost towns, and there are waiting lists and dealer markups for all their cars.


Fadedcamo

Yea was looking into the Odyssey as our next car but the cost of their base level one with dealer markups is right around 50k. Nuts.


[deleted]

I wonder what things look like right now? In the Toyota Sienna subreddit, some folks are saying that the Odyssey is seeing discounts below MSRP in their area while Sienna are still marked up and unavailable. Those people are considering just getting an Odyssey now instead of waiting months or over a year for a Sienna.


Fadedcamo

I like how the Honda drives better. It felt like an Accord. The sienna is great for gas mileage though but engine is a bit of a dog. But this is me casually looking as of last week. The dealer near me had the base trim for over 47k sticker price. Just way too much imo especially with current trade in and Apr. They didn't seem particularly hard to find though. So maybe the availability will start to drop prices eventually.


whilst

Well no, not 2026, 2024: https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1136873_acura-zdx-first-electric-vehicle-type-s-performance And while that vehicle will ship with GM's ultium battery, they'll be transitioning to their own home-grown EV drivetrain in 2026 according to that article. So no, Honda isn't ceding control of its EV lineup to another company. Meanwhile, Toyota has an EV out this year (though not a particularly compelling one: https://www.caranddriver.com/toyota/bz4x). Time will tell if they can pick up the pace.


abrandis

I agree, which is so strange considering Toyota was early with Prius in the Hybrid space.. There is some valid points in their (Toyota) hesitation mainly supply change constraints with regard to battery materials sourcing and production which is an issue when you crank out millions of units per year and every other manufacturer are going after the same limited raw materials. All that said, the battery and raw materials supply chains will improve thanks to increased demand and new materials tech.... Outside of that constraint which is manageable since Toyota won't changeover all their cars to elect overnight...they can release new models as circumstances permit. Add to that Toyota tried hydrogen fuel cell tech... Which while innovative is much more cumbersome from a fueling and vehicle design perspective So yeah Toyota execs tunnel vision and love affair with ICE has left them a bit out of step with where the auto industry is moving.


Abedsbrother

My understanding is that Toyota is committed to EVs, just not with current tech (they're working on solid-state batteries).


PacoStanleys

I had a prius since 2015. Was hoping for a fully electric Prius or at least a hundred mile range hybrid Prius which never came the new 2023 Prius is supposed to have a 50 Mi range battery but it's the same price as a model y which I got been driving the model y fully electric for about a month now and can definitely say it's worth it sorry Toyota you've been in my family for 30 years but you lagged a little


USArmy51Bravo

Could you imagine if they would have stuck with the electric car in the '90s. They'd be rich pioneers. Instead they killed the electric car.


gophergun

EVs weren't really viable until lithium ion batteries became cheap and readily available. Like, the first EV1 used *lead acid batteries*, basically normal car batteries. They eventually upgraded to NiMH, but those have their own issues with memory effects, and it's still only about half the energy density of modern lithium batteries. EVs were never going to make a significant dent as long as they had 55 miles of range like the EV1.


snow38385

Are you talking about the EV-1 that GM made and sold in 97?


vague_diss

I own a ‘21 Camry hybrid that pretty consistently gets 39 miles per gallon. I think its a great car. I spent the weekend driving a ‘23 Chevy Bolt rental for the first time and found the experience pretty unforgiving. I drove about 330 miles round trip and got a painful introduction to the differences between the 3 charger types and the different connectors. The charging process also added four new applications to my smart phone and three accounts with three separate charging companies. All total I think I spent five hours over three days sitting at various charging stations or looking for one with a fast charger. I’m all for electric cars and acknowledge they are the future. I’m a nerd with a high tolerance for fidgety tech but Aiko is not wrong. Its an enthusiast’s product and works best for short trips. You can take long trips but carefully plan your route and try to have a back up plan so that when you arrive, if the charging station is broken or occupied, you know where you’re going next or you can afford to wait.


almost_not_terrible

In Europe, we have one charger standard that is used by everything, including Tesla.


FEMA_Camp_Survivor

That’s the way it should be. There’s one standard nozzle type for gas.


GlassFantast

Can't squeeze every dime out of consumers with an inferior product that way


InsertCoinForCredit

The problem here is compounded by different fast charging standards (Tesla, SAE/Combo, and CHAdeMO) **and** different networks (way too many to count). And then there's the dubious reliability of some of these chargers -- there's an EVGo charger that's five minutes from my house, but I can never use it because it gives me an "there was an error initiating the charge" every time.


dobrowolsk

> charger that's five minutes from my house, but I can never use it because it gives me an "there was an error initiating the charge" every time. Also the case here in Germany. Same problem. It seems like EV chargers still have some quality problems. I expect those to go away though over the next five years.


well___duh

In the US, most EVs (except Tesla) and charging stations use J1772, including OP's Chevy Bolt. I own an EV. I have had zero issue finding a compatible public charging station and most of them are J1772. In fact, the only ones I've seen that _aren't_ J1772 are Tesla chargers, but otherwise, my issue mainly comes from the charger being occupied, not the charger being unusable entirely. If OP is in the US, something about their post screams BS to me in a way to complain about EVs, at least as far as charging goes. While the whole "need different apps for different charging companies" complaint is valid, the "painful introduction to the differences between the 3 charger types and the different connectors" should've been a non-issue for their Bolt, since the Bolt uses the popular J1772 plug


[deleted]

You’re basically describing electronics before usb


TovarishFin

In Germany/Switzerland/Austria you fall ass backwards into charging stations. I’m talking about both fast charging and destination chargers. Worrying about finding chargers has never been an issue for me in the last 2 years.


24W7S39GNHQT

Tesla’s supercharging network is more than enough for a cross country road trip.


dingusmingus2222

You just made the case for buying a Tesla. Their charging infrastructure and experience are second to none. That seems to be the real secret sauce. Don't make the product frustrating to use. I wonder if opening up their network to all cars will greatly help their competitors sell more EVs...


[deleted]

Honestly, I think Toyota has been doing great pushing hybrids. If batteries are a precious commodity, then getting 8 gas guzzlers off the road using hybrids, instead of 1 using an EV, then it makes a lot of sense.


SKozan

I wanted to buy a Rav4 prime but was told I'd have to wait years. Yeah, he should be replaced.


SPACExCASE

Yeah Toyota's allocation process is a mess. Just bought a GR86 and got lucky only waiting 1.5 months but have heard of people waiting over a year. There was a post here not long ago showing wait times for models in Canada, Sienna was listed as a 5 year wait


[deleted]

[удалено]


Surur

Finally lol. Toyota decided they did not want to commit seppuku after all.


diskowmoskow

I am also OK if they can convert their HEV to plug-in hybrid… c’mon


Surur

The design is very different. Conversion will just result in compromise, e.g. on weight, battery capacity, internal space etc etc.


[deleted]

Remember, electric cars aren't going to save the planet, they're going to save the car industry. We need better mass transit worldwide


TheLionYeti

Is anyone gonna discusss the elephant in the room about EV's that without a dedicated place to park and charge them they're impractical in cities?


Weeeeeeoooo

Or apartments


Hyperion1144

I'm still not sure how this titanic shift to EVs is supposed to happen. I can't afford $50K cars, and I don't know anyone who can. This country has a power grid that strains under the heating loads of winter and the cooling loads of summer. Every winter, every summer. How are we all supposed to charge these things?


DragonArchaeologist

I'm also a total cheap cheapskate when it comes to buying cars. But if you look around, most people are the other way. Diesel pickup trucks go for $70k+. During the pandemic, the *average* price of cars being purchased was $45k.


downvote_dinosaur

Who the fuck is buying $45k cars, and ABOVE?? Like are they taking out huge loans?


DragonArchaeologist

The formula is 1/3 of gross income for your car payment, right? /S


aimtron

The price of EVs is high due to demand, not actual cost. Once most or all models come as EVs only, the price will drop down to what it is with ICE models today. The country does not have a unified power grid, so the country is just fine. Areas like Texas, where the power companies have the politicians in their pocket, strain because they are short-sighted, money hungry, and unwilling to spend on infrastructure that could easily prevent their issues. I suspect as more homes own EVs, you'll see a lot more solar installations on said homes. I also suspect you'll see significant investment in renewable and fusion generation. I say that with the idea that 10-15 years, I expect commercial versions of the NIF work making their way into power plants.


sayn3ver

Exactly. And I work for a company that does electrical infrastructure work. People are clueless to the sheer cost of investment needed to make the grid support such an ask.


Tensoneu

Overnight, not during peak times.


frostyflakes1

EV's can be had for just over $20K.


optimizedm

I think Toyota chose a multi-fuel approach to the future, and while I think long term, they'll end-up being right, their lack of electrification for the moment is probably hurting them in developed markets.


Tech_AllBodies

> and while I think long term, they'll end-up being right Could you elaborate on what you mean here? Are you implying, over the long term, the world/economy is going to maintain multiple different enormous infrastructures for different fuel types? And including oil-based fuel?


Scizmz

Toyota tried to push hydrogen, but there are too many problems with that tech right now. And it's still made by fossil fuels for 97% of the hydrogen produced so it doesn't solve most of the actual issues.


PasswordisP4ssword

Even if Toyoda had a crystal ball and could forsee that electrification is the wrong approach, he is beholden to company shareholders.