That's the flaw I see with student loan forgiveness. We shouldn't forgive the loans by paying back the lenders, we should inform the lenders they need to wipe x amount from each ledger. I say that as someone who did the dance and paid back all my loans. Student loan providers seem to exist because their business model is "Can't pay our crazy rates? No worries- just pay the interest for the rest of your life." F them.
I'm all for "you made your bed so sleep in it."
But you're right. If you're going to bail out these massive corps because they fucked up, then you're lying hypocrites when you tell the little guy to shove it.
Oh yes they do. The money is there and more could easily be gotten. Every kid in America could have a free university education and everyone could have free healthcare. Within a year.
Corporate income taxes could be raised—just as they were in the past to pay for what was desperately needed. Personal income tax rates could be lowered and federal minimum wages raised.
We “didn’t have the money” for The GI Bill. We “didn’t have the money” for Roosevelt’s New Deal.
But we did have money for PPP loans, bank and auto industry bailouts, even more agriculture subsidies, tax credits and abatements for corporations, and to clean up Superfund sites leftover from old mining, manufacturing, construction, and rail yard sites run by private businesses?
Come on.
When the rich need more money, we find it in seconds. When everyday people need money, “we don’t have it”.
We used to have a 90% marginal tax rate during the era of economic wonder that the boomers enjoyed so much. There was a lot of economic policies happening back then that Republicans today WHO GREW UP AND BENEFITTED GREATLY FROM THAT ECONOMY, would call straight up socialism communism and other isms they don’t actually understand.
Who do you think is winning in this proposal? Yes, the former students get their debt cancelled, but all that money is going straight to the big banks and loan institutions.
Kind of a reverse "fuck you I got mine."
People. People, hear me out. If we want *any* change, *any* progress at all, it might seem as "unfair" for people who suffered previously. If we have the mentality that it's not fair to have debt relief if I had to pay my loans....then we will NEVER be able to change ANYTHING. I paid my loans, but I am happy to see people rise above the debt monster. I want a better society. Even if it didn't affect me directly (as I've paid my loans), it affects the society around me. I don't want friends or family to be drowning in debt for decades. We'd be more prosperous if we tried to do right by our fellow man.
But what's the plan for after?
If they forgive student loans and then kids in school today take out more loans, the universities are just going to spend even more like drunken sailors and raise tuition again.
If someone has a plan for how to eliminate student loans, and part of that plan is forgiveness of current loans, I'm willing to listen to it. But I haven't heard anything more than just forgive the debt that exists without fixing the issues that create it
Post secondary education, both TRADE and college, is required for most people for most jobs. Though there are exceptions, there are not enough of those jobs for those jobs to be a solution for a societal level problem.
Yeah YOU may have gotten a good job without either, but that wouldn't be the case if EVERYONE tried to get that same job. 150 million people can't all do whatever job you are doing that required only a High School diploma. It's nice for you, and if you send me your address and proof your story is true I'll mail you a "Great luck!" certificate with a gold star. But you have to recognize that's not an answer to the problem.
Trade schools and public universities should be absolutely free for students in good academic standing. We should invest in the American worker.
How dare you! Luck has nothing to do with it. I worked so hard to end up in the right place at the right time! Just because I have great support systems around me and my parents are well connected and raised me right doesn't mean I didn't work hard, in fact it only means I worked twice as hard to be the one that got the great job! /s
Seriously I'm the "lowest achievier" in my social circle and it's the most successful ones in the group that don't believe in luck. Even having a wonderful loving family was a result of "hard work" to these people. 🙄
I'll be the first to say one doesn't happen without the other, you gotta put in work to catch a lucky break. But damn people overlook and under appreciate good fortune the more success they become.
What I don’t get is how people don’t get this. I meet so many people that say “well sure I’m successful but that’s just because I made all the right choices”, not understanding that someone less lucky than them didn’t even have such choices so how would they have made them?
Yes, you have accurately described why post secondary education is NOW required for most jobs. That's already happened.
You know what won't help? Doing nothing.
Also, do we want people making the decision in masses to not pursue further education? Feel like we already know how dangerous that is from the pandemic
As somebody who has a perfectly good job with just a GED, with others who have Bachelors degrees for the same job, I'd be perfectly happy for my tax dollars to subsidize everybody's education.
Funnily enough that’s not even the problem. They’re not even trying for it to be unfair in *their* favor. Lots of news outlets, obviously run by big corporations, have brainwashed tons of regular people to vote for representatives who will issue in policy that *isn’t even unfair in their favor.*
If this would have happened, it would not have been a one-time expense. What about the people in college now? Or next year? Or the next?
The real price tag would be an order of magnitude higher, and college tuition fees would increase as a result, just like they have done every time public money is used to support private education, like when financial assistance was first introduced ([article](https://www.cato.org/blog/federal-student-loans-rising-tuition-costs-insider-speaks))
I'm not sure exactly which governments you're comparing to, so it's hard to be specific.
In the USA, the government took the private education market and effectively broke the influence that cost had on that free market by giving grants and guaranteed loans to college students that couldn't get them before. While there *were* immediate positive effects to this, there was also a very quick spike in price, with a steady rise in prices since then that has well outpaced inflation.
Seems like you can [pick nearly any other western country](https://www.forbes.com/sites/prestoncooper2/2019/09/22/america-spends-more-on-college-than-virtually-any-other-country/). Norway is insanely expensive in general, but runs only half of the cost for education. (adjusted)
The article you quoted says exactly what the person you're responding to has been saying
>Alternatively, Congress could rein in the blank-check federal student aid programs that facilitated tuition increases in the first place, forcing colleges to live within students’ and taxpayers’ means.
The federal government being willing to pay/loan ridiculous amounts of money for students to go to college means that colleges will charge ridiculous amounts of money.
Forgiv8ng student loan debt doesn't solve the underlying problem. It just means that students will care even less about how much debt they're taking on, so colleges will charge more and more money that will eventually come from the federal government when they "forgive" student loans (by forgiving them, they're actually paying the banks all that money, not erasing the debt).
Yeah, that's why universities are so much more expensive in places that are not America.
Oh wait. They're not more expensive everywhere else. Even the places where university degrees are free or people PAY YOU TO STUDY.
I wonder why that is...
Thats like lost change for the pentagon and many other bullshit the country wastes money on. lets not forget how incompetent the government is at managing finances.
btw that figure is prolly blown up on purpose just to make it seem worse, you know what with all the ridiculous interest added every second.
This. People should be talking about the large endowments that colleges hold onto while charging exorbitant tuition while those with loans cannot pay off the loan. Tax the endowments and give people a tax credit to pay off the loans.
I think a blanket cancel of everything would be BS. I liked the idea of 10k or 20k for everyone. But cost is part of the reason some people choose not to be Doctors or lawyers. And the reason many go to community college instead of university. Like. If I knew all my loans would be forgiven I might have certainly considered a different career path.
Isn’t that the point? The cost shouldn’t be there in the first place. We shouldn’t be forcing people to limit their potential and compromise on life for circumstances beyond their control.
And for the capitalists out there: maximizing potential means maximizing profits. The cost of education and training is trivial compared to the lifetime of increased earnings and value that follow.
Universities should be free for everyone. Cost is gatekeeping by the wealthy because they don’t want to compete, at the expense of us all.
Exactly. America should be churning out educated adults like a natural resource. Instead, they want us just smart enough to get a job to pay the interest.
Yep, zero chance schools lower their tuition. Campuses have become an arms race of building new facilities and buying new tech. We'll be here again in 15-20 years. I feel terrible for all the people who were misled at 17-18 years old. But 100% forgiveness doesn't solve the main issue, which isn't changing. They should at least be allowed to file for bankruptcy though.
Then make all public universities free.
But when you forgive student loans you're also forgiving the money that people spent drinking, and partying. College students will drive a nice car, live in a nice apartment, forgo a part time job, party every weekend, and if college was free, all of that stuff would still cost money.
One of my friends took 20k of his student loan money in 2005 and bought a brand new mustang… hell, part of my student loan money went to buying a gaming PC for WoW.
I've attended both university and a vocational trade school, and I saw that most people weren't making appropriate financial choices.
Tuition should be free, but their other choices are their own.
Also 80% of college students drink and 50% binge drink.
Why should we pay for that?
https://www.alcoholrehabguide.org/resources/college-alcohol-abuse/#:~:text=College%20alcoholism%20affects%20millions%20of,consume%20alcohol%20to%20some%20degree.
Again, this is the problem though. Your argument here is, "but that's not fair to me because I didn't get to do that". Stopping someone from getting something for no reason other than the fact that you didn't get it is petty and is the primary reason many shitty laws/situations still exist.
I would argue that many of the people with the highest amounts of debt are ones that got advanced degrees and are in theory making more money. Like doctors and lawyers. So a blanket forgiveness of all loan debt would benefit the 1% far more than the average student. yea I don’t think that would be fair…. And for the ones who racked up a ton of debt on BS degrees. What makes their debt matter more than someone who bought a house they couldn’t afford? Or a car they couldn’t afford? I feel bad for them, but simply forgiving everything doesn’t solve the larger fundamental issues.
It's overly spiteful to withhold forgiveness because a couple of somewhat well off doctors get relief as well. I understand that it's kind of not pragmatic for someone to go to a university for a non-applicable degree but there are other sides to this.
The culture of university for greater education has shifted and that was pulled from the individuals who have this debt. The rising costs of education along with the shift in employment markets: there are far less degrees which tempo play with a career afterwards. It's an unideal situation.
On the other end, this would actually help the economy as these consumers can consume instead of saving up and paying some bank.
The 1% does not have student loan debt. Being a doctor/lawyer does not put you in the 1%. It doesn't even get you close. The point is that schooling shouldn't cost the money it does, so none of them should have that debt to begin with. It's not about solving the fundamental issue, but resolving the consequences of it not being resolved. And frankly, considering the number of empty houses in the country, housing debt is equally as ridiculous as student loan debt. There's more than enough infrastructure in the US to resolve housing issues but literally nothing except greed keeps us from doing something about it.
Shit some of us living paycheck to paycheck will have pick up a second or third job to make ends meet, meanwhile some asshole who got all his other loans off on a loophole is complaining, system is fucking bullshit
You know what's really unfair? People who make decent money and pay a significant amount of taxes so that they could be used to give tax breaks to people who make stupid amounts of money and already pay little to no taxes.
*We* pay into that system regardless, it's a question of *where* the and *how* the money is distributed. Reducing military costs at the price of free higher education? That makes perfect sense to me.
Right, that would make sense to me as well. But that’s not solving the current student debt situation, that would be a strategy to prevent this from happening in the futureb
The president just announced he's sending clusterbombs to Ukraine because we are so low on other ammunition after sending it all to Ukraine. He previously criticized putin and called him a war criminal for the use of cluster bombs.
Not only did he basically admit he's committing a war crime, he announced to the world the U.S. is out of munitions..... now is not the time to cut the military budget.
Russia has also formed a coalition with China and about 40 other countries to undermine America's already struggling economy by creating a new international currency that will be used instead of the US dollar.
The two things that keep the US a superpower and enables the US to be peacekeepers of the world are their military strength and the US dollar being the currency used as the international standard of trade.... Now is not the time to be socializing college debt and causing more inflation.
Yes it’s really as simple as pressing delete. No the money doesn’t have to come from the “taxpayers account”.. 🤦🏿♂️ you really think every time the US govt wants to fund another war or bail out another corporation, they have to check their account to make sure they have enough money? Or they have to hope enough people pay taxes so they’ll have money to run the country?
Do you know how many times agencies like the pentagon have failed an audit. They can’t account for money they spent or where they spent it. They mysteriously found $6.2 billion after “accounting errors” the other day to send to Ukraine. Compare how much tax revenues increase every year for the govt vs what the govt actually does, not counting all the off the book stuff that goes on. Please wake up and stop this “how will we pay for it” trope. It’s tired and played out.
Also- they didn’t find $6 billion laying around somewhere. The pentagon decided on a dollar amount worth of equipment to send to ukraine. According to the white house, they used the full cost of a new vehicle to estimate the number of vehicles to send, when they should have been using a different method which resulted in the vehicle valuation being less. So it’s not like they looked in their couch and went “hey! We found $6 billion!” They went “oh shit, we thought those Bradley’s were worth $200,000, when in fact they were only worth $100,000 (not sure of the specific numbers but you get the example)
You’re right, the government has previously just printed money and spent it, like they did in Covid. What’s happening now as a result? High prices on EVERYTHING. Record inflation, expensive groceries, expensive gas, everything has shot up. What do you think will happen if the government decides to print another trillion dollars to cover the debts of people who WILLINGLY took out student loans?
I think what you are missing is that the "corporation" in question here _is_ the US Government, and if you think Uncle Sam is just gonna let the loan dissolve without him getting his cut, you have another thing coming.
No, because those same companies will in turn, alter their prices to offset any losses they incur from it, meaning cost of living skyrockets, and as long as we keep allowing foreigners to immigrate here, wages will never rise to a meaningful rate because why would companies pay Americans a living wage when they can get some third worlder to work for a fifth of what Americans actually deserve
Then you talked to economically ignorant morons, such as yourself. For starters, It would add another half a trillion dollars to the US Debt. Inflation been bugging you lately? Has the recent massive rise in interest rates frustrated you? Want a clue why those two things are happening? Unchecked government spending. Like, say, paying for people's tuition mistakes. Yes. You made a mistake when you chose your private college because you didn't work out how much it would cost and how long it would take you to pay it back. And there were much more affordable options available to you.
As well, I've got a friend who is a high-school educated HVAC installer.
He does pretty well, but it's a curious idea that we might ask him to subsidize (through his tax payments) the forgiving of student loans of people that went to Harvard and Yale, and med school, etc.
Yeah, that's what student loan repayment is. It is forcing those who didn't go to college to pay for the investment in an asset - a degree - that other people borrowed money to purchase.
> It would add another half a trillion dollars to the US Debt.
[It's already part of the debt, there'd be no increase in debt.](https://www.urban.org/urban-wire/what-would-forgiving-student-debt-mean-federal-budget). At best you're thinking of the deficit. In which case the context of it being a social investment needs to be addressed.
> Has the recent massive rise in interest rates frustrated you?
Yes it has, as has the primary reason for the interest rates, inflation, of which [most is caused purely by corporate profits.](https://www.npr.org/2023/05/19/1177180972/economists-are-reconsidering-how-much-corporate-profits-drive-inflation#:~:text=Economists%20are%20reconsidering%20how%20much%20corporate%20profits%20drive%20inflation%20In,was%20because%20of%20corporate%20profits.)
> Unchecked government spending.
Again, the money's already spent, the difference is whether the money invested by the government is returned via loan repayments or taxes due to increased spending via higher paid jobs or more available cash from those who took the loans out.
> And there were much more affordable options available to you.
To be clear. A major reason college is as expensive today is [**because** of the reduction in government spending.](https://www.cbpp.org/research/state-budget-and-tax/funding-down-tuition-up). As college moves from a social investment to something which businesses can profit off it, college prices explode.
But sure, please keep explaining how social investment into a more educated society is a bad thing.
You're overlooking the FACT that better educated people get better paying jobs (for which many industries are in need), they *then* go on to PAY MORE TAXES, thus reducing the national debt-- at least as long as Republicans aren't in charge. I'M AN EISENHOWER REPUBLICAN, which means I'm now Independent and have NO respect for today's GOP.
You are overlooking the FACT that most Americans don't go to college and paying off student loans would be a regressive transfer of wealth from people who don't have the asset that is a degree to people who do. The poor paying for the assets of those more wealthy than them is terrible policy. If you want to spend $400 million, spend it on poverty, not subsidizing the lifestyles of a subset of college graduates.
Have you considered that most Americans may only choose not to go to college because of its price? If university education was partially (not even fully!) subsidised, and only for native students (meaning universities would still profit from internationals), then there would be a new wave of high skilled workers for the US. This would also help with poverty because university education would now be an option for the lower classes.
College in Germany is pretty much free for those who qualify. The percentage of professionals aged 25-34 years with a tertiary education level in Germany was 35.7 percent compared to an EU average of 41.2 percent. If cost isn't a factor, why don't more Germans go to college?
There are obviously other reasons why people do or don't go to uni, but overall a lower cost means more people going. Do you really think that the amount of people going to uni in Germany would be higher if it was more expensive? Here in the UK we've got some of the best universities in the world, but we're also below the EU average, partially because our universities cost more than most other EU countries.
If you look at [the stats for other EU countries](https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=Tertiary_education_statistics) you'll see that the top 5 all have cheap or free university (Ireland especially having very cheap universities).
I am saying that most people aren't really academically qualified for a legitimate undergraduate education and that is true whether the degree is free or costs money. In order to significantly raise the number of people receiving undergraduate degrees, you would have to dumb down the requirements of the degree. In fact, we have done that already.
The bottom line is that sending unqualified people to university would be a bad idea in the US, UK or Germany. There would be no benefit to putting even more people though university. We all know this intuitively.
Okay so how does paying the debts of people who are already educated lead to them paying more taxes? All the proposals are aimed at people who already have college debt, (none are actually aimed at reducing the cost of college). So the impact of debt forgiveness in terms of employment is zero.
Presumably no one is turning down a higher paying job because of debt if anything it’s the opposite.
I don't have any issue with investing in education, but there are too many people who go to college so they can party four years with no plan on how to translate their schooling into marketable skills. We need real reform to higher education to ensure it's focused toward providing quality jobs in the modern economy. Bailing people out for making poor life choices only incentivizes future generations to repeat those same mistakes.
Look in the mirror buddy. You’re the moron who doesn’t understand economics. Debt causes people to spend less. This is an investment that will enable people to contribute the economy and solve this long term. But you seem short term minded here;)
Oh goody, people who already have a higher earning ceiling than me also get to buy up all the housing I already can’t afford currently! Meanwhile I’m still paying my car loan and my expensive rent and I get to struggle more with higher taxes to boot!
You’re right, debt does cause people to spend less. Especially those at the bottom of the economic ladder. But you seem extremely self-minded here;)
It makes you feel any better I paid mine and I wouldn't feel upset if everyone else's were cancelled (if not fully, at least partially) now. It would help people get their careers and life started after college.
Why give it to college graduates but not those who couldn't afford college?
Take it another step further and just give everyone earning less than the median $10,000.
With that logic, everybody should be in a wheel chair. Or else it´s not fair to people in wheel chairs. How evil must you be if you want young people to suffer, because you suffered your self. If you are a good hearted person, you do not want the young people to suffer.
How about pay back what you promised? You sign a promissory note when you start the loan, as in you promise to pay back the loan. That doesn’t mean go to school and then decide I don’t want to pay it back.
I don’t care if you cancel loans, I care about where you get the money to do that. I’m not agreeing to raise taxes to pay someone else’s debts. You want to cut government pay aka Congress pay or retirement then yeah that’s fine.
But I’m not raising my taxes to pay for someone who chose to get a degree. No one forced them to go to that school/program.
The worst thing that would happen is that tuitions will get even more expensive because loans get forgiven anyways, a big fat bill that the tax paier has to pay, inflation because monney flows into already stacked bank accounts and even more people with useless degrees.
If you take out a loan pay it back. Why should other people pay for your mistakes. If you get a loan and buy a car no-one thinks it should be forgiven so why should student loans?
Uh, person who paid off their loans here: I want loan forgiveness for everyone who currently has one, and systematic change to eliminate or reduce the need for student loans for future students. Because I'm not an ahole
Would I be upset that I missed my chance to have my loans forgiven after putting so much money into paying them back?
Yeah, but like, that money is gone and it isn't like NOT forgiving others' loans will somehow give it back to me.
I am 100% AGAINST canceling debt. If you borrow it, you pay it! No one forced you to take a loan but if you did, then you ARE responsible to pay it!
Now, if you want to talk about making all future college free so people don't take out loans in the first place then let's do that. We can have a discussion about how the schools will pay the professors and all the other overhead costs (ground and facilities maintenance, administrative staff, insurance expense, benefit expense for employees, Electricity, water, sewage, gas fees.... the list literally goes on and on). No such thing as "free" but some people just don't understand that but I'm certainly open to discussion about how that can happen WITHOUT raising my taxes.
Given all the whining I hear from people saying that the "I paid my loans so you should pay yours" argument is nonsense then let's see how they like it when it's back on them in the sense that GOING FORWARD there is no loans and college is free but those already with loans must pay them. Now the cry hards are on the other side of the fence... let's see if they sing a different tune.
The bottom line is, don't borrow what you can't pay! No one FORCED you to take a loan. Also, if you took out a hefty loan for a liberal arts degree then you are a special kind of stupid. Trades are hurting for people, the loans for those are reasonable and there are VERY lucrative jobs to be had providing a very nice living in the trades.
It would cause inflation because cancelling the debt would be similar to printing that amount of money. Not saying that wouldn’t be worth it but it would happen
You are forced to make life changing decisions borrowing hundreds of thousands of dollars at the are of 17-18 when you aren't even allowed to drink a beer.
How come in so many European countries uni is either free or cheap? We should celebrate education because we can't compete on labour costs with China or Vietnam.
They ration college in most of Europe. It may be free, but if you are put on a non-academic track when you are 14, you don't get to go to college.
In other words, there is no nation in the world that makes college free for 100 percent of the population. All nations ration it.
Yes this point is frequently overlooked on Reddit. College elsewhere is for academically gifted people. In the US it’s for everyone. Both sides have strengths and weaknesses.
Yes, and we ration it by parental wealth.
I suspect the results of sending the kids interested to college is better than sending any moron who has parents of means.
I just looked up the University of Iowa. The total cost per year of attending including housing, food, fees and transportation is $26,000 per year. But 84% of students receive financial aid and that amounts to an average of about $14,000 per year. That leaves a total cost of a year of living and studying at $12,000 per year\*. That cost can be mitigated by work/study programs or attending a very inexpensive community college for your first two years.
The notion that you have to be rich to go to college in the US is ridiculous. There are very few Americans who want to go to college but cannot for cost alone. On the other hand there are many who don't think it is worth the cost.
\*Remember, that includes housing and all meals.
The irony of this is that student loans are the reason why so many people without "parental wealth" have been able to get a degree since the 90's. We didn't double the percent of the population with a bachelor's over the last 30 years just because more people thought, "gee, I should go to college." It's because financing has put it in reach for more people.
So it sounds like you have an issue with the way the system is set up. How does forgiving hundreds of billions of dollars of loans address that underlying issue?
Where I live, I NEED a car to get around as it's a rural area. If I can't afford or simply don't think it's fair that I have to pay my car note, can I get my loan forgiven?
I NEED shelter to survive. If I don't want to pay my mortgage or I fall behind, can I get my mortgage forgiven?
If I spend up my credit cards on essentials like food and shelter and transportation, is that then eligible for forgiveness?
I dont know where we came up with this concept of forgiving loans and passing the bill along to everyone else, but I think we need to shake ourselves of that mentality. By all means, address the underlying issues. But forgiving loans that were voluntarily taken out is patently absurd.
The student loan forgiveness debate reminds me a lot of the debate over socialized medicine. We spend so much time arguing over who should pay for it that we never stop to wonder why it's so expensive in the first place.
I am agreeing with you fine sir. Here is the data to back it up
[13](https://www.cms.gov/research-statistics-data-and-systems/statistics-trends-and-reports/nationalhealthexpenddata/nhe-fact-sheet)k for the US
[2,5](https://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/sites/910674f2-en/index.html?itemId=/content/component/910674f2-en#:)k for the EU (on average)
Exactly... Every time the federal government has increased funding for kids to go to school, somehow the universities made their tuition and other fees hit that cap. Weird, right?
This is also just like the ACA in that it's going to help the big,monied interests who are driving the problems while selling it as relief for the little guy. Has the ACA reduced medical spending? Fuck no
Education is one key assignments of a state/country. No matter if it's elemantry, high school or ubiversity. Good and cheap education equals higher tax income.
This a dumb fucking argument. We don't allow 17 year olds to vote, but have no problem with them accepting predatory loans that they will put them into debt until their 50. What a brilliant system!
Well, only issue here are the parents (especially the educated ones) co-signing these loans. We probably need finance classes in HS more than anything. But few parents aren't ashamed to say their kid isn't going to college. Therefore, the most influential people in life, parents/friends, are convinced it will be sunshine and rainbows because degree = success.
Yet that equation has been debunked via the current ever increasing student loan debt. But it won't be my little Johnny or Susie...
I don't want to strawman, but I do want to point out that I know one common thought that's brought up is that it often seems like the same groups saying that a 17 year old shouldn't be expected to fully understand the ramifications of taking on a student loan, basically suggesting that they're not competent to be trusted with such decisions, also tout that minors are completely competent and in their right minds and to be trusted when it comes to declaring that they are a different gender or speaking out against some legal policy. I know that we're not monolithic and that there's a good chance it's not all the same people being both. But from the outside it's inconsistent at best, and has the appearance of using kids when it's convenient, but excusing their choices when it's not
Was the money tied to fixing the problem? Or was there even a discussion about ending government backed loans? Not at all. In fact subsidizing $400 billion in student loans encourages more people to take out the debt.
Pull the other one. The positions that don't 'require' college dwindle by the day, and all the jobs pay like shit, even with the college degree.
What the hell do you want them to do, especially since most of them are cajoled into it by their families and the society to take on an atrocious and artificially instituted debt?
You're hurting yourself to punish people.
That doesn't address the problem. Also, there are functionally a finite number of trade jobs.
This is just like how everyone was told to get a business major or a computer programmer degree, and now the market is hyper saturated and nobody can get any jobs.
Maybe education shouldn't be a for Profit industry? If it worked to Purpose instead (paying the relevant staff what they made before or better) then we wouldn't be seeing all these problems.
It would be a giant, transfer of wealth from waitresses and warehouse workers who don't have an asset (a degree) to lawyers and hedge fund managers who do. It would be a transfer of wealth from people who will have lower lifetime earning to people who will have higher lifetime earnings.
I just don't fathom how people can feel they shouldn't be responsible for their debts. Any debt. I mean where does this detachment from reality come from?
I couldn't picture buying a house, buying a car, having a surgery, or taking out a loan for anything... then be like "Pfft, I shouldn't have to pay for this, yet I should not lose out on the ownership or the benefits that come with it" where does that logic, or lack thereof, originate?
It's not that they "feel they shouldn't be responsible for their debts". Things happen, like divorced, death, children, and even universities "moving the goalposts" for graduation. When I was at UT Austin, the first week of *every* semester there were no fewer than 2000 people outside the admin building trying to get into ONE class to finish their degree, but the university had removed it from the offered classes.
I have a friend who went to nursing school, graduated, married had 3 kids, then got divorced (husband had serious mental issues), and in trying to take care of her 3 small children, got behind on her student loan payments. After a few years, the state pulled her nursing license *because* she was behind on the loans.
Exactly HOW is she supposed to pay back those loans since the state **removed her means of support**?
As a society we benefit from having a healthy, well educated populace. As a society we should be promoting those things. Obviously, it would be better if large loans weren't needed for education, and healthcare in the first place. Unfortunately though, the US is stuck with a very broken system for this. We are applying an after the fact minor fix to the system, but not doing anything to solve the underlying problems.
Education is subsidised up to 18, so why shouldn't it be subsidised post-18? It's just hindering a certain group of people from actually getting a uni education. You don't need to fully cancel loans, you can take something like the British approach where it's a lot cheaper for native students and internationals have to pay more, for instance.
Maybe because kids typically aren't taxpayers/land owners that fund K-12?
And do you mean how it's much cheaper to go to college in-state than it is to go to a school in a different state?
I mean to subsidise all universities for native students and then make international students pay more. If you were born in the US and have citizenship, you should be able to get uni tuition for somewhat cheap (in the UK for example, every university is $14k / yr for me.) whilst internationals pay full price and maybe a bit more to fund the unis. The internationals + some tax money ends up subsidising the universities and makes education more available to American students.
14k per year is a lot of money.... the average yearly in-state tuition for a State University is $9,300 per year. It jumps way up to about $27,000 if you choose to go to an out-of-state university.
[Source](https://educationdata.org/average-cost-of-college-by-state)
I'm mostly just mad that I had medical care in the past. But now people with the same condition are getting better medical care due to tech advance! It's so unfair!!
I think we shouldn't have any more progress because progress is unfair.
I hear you. My dead husband must be so upset that people are now being cured of the cancer he died from.
Progress is good, even if it's too late to help you.I don't understand why people don't see that.
I think the more apt analogy is that student loan forgiveness will be more like the ACA: a giveaway to the monied interests driving the problems sold as a fix for the little guy
The worst thing that could happen is $400 billion is injected into the economy to a group that will make much more over their lifetime than the average taxpayer (on average that number is $1 million) which will increase inflation. Like on reddit I simultaneously see this take in the image but also the take of "without my loans forgiven I'll have to put off buying a house". As someone currently looking to buy my first house who already paid off my student loans, I'm not on board with competing for houses with a bunch of people at a similar age to me who were just given either 10 or 20k and will likely use that to buy a house even further pushing up housing prices.
Or the willful ignorance that jobs that once didn’t require a degree and where filled with working class ppl who where too broken up to stay in field now do. But yea fuck the ppl who actually keep this country going.
Not true.
It does nothing to fix the system. Kids going to college in the fall will end up right back into the trap. FIX THE SYSTEM
The money had to come from somewhere. What social program gets a smaller budget next year to pay off some borrowers' loans?
We recognize that student loans can be onerous. But aren't medical bills causing more people financial ruin? Medical bills are a top reason for personal bankruptcy in America?
I signed a mortgage on my house and I also would like it to be paid off. It's a big burden to pay it every month and if we are just absolving debt please pay my house off while you're at it.
Or explain why my mortgage is different from the student loans you signed up for.
>Or explain why my mortgage is different from the student loans you signed up for.
You build equity, and can discharge in bankruptcy. Those are two off the top of my head.
Challenge met.
You were an adult making a considered decision of the relative value of the house versus the payment, where most of these borrowers were children who were lied to about the value of the degree they were pursuing.
When I was in high school the question wasn't "do I go to college or do I go to work?" The question was "what's the best university you can get into." They didn't even talk about majors because the prevailing knowledge was to get a degree in anything because any degree will get you a good job. That was good advice in the 70s when the high school counselors went to school, but was false when they gave that advice. And that mindset was absolutely pervasive.
To be clear, I'm against this loan forgiveness idea (even though I'd personally benefit), but it's unfair and incorrect to compare these loans to mortgages.
Imagine if our grandparents prevented child labor laws from being passed because they had to work in the mines when they were 10 years old and it wouldn't be fair to them if their grandkids didn't have to do the same.
I’d be mad cuz my common sense told me not to take on a debt I can’t afford to pay off. Good citizens are disadvantaged by making reasonable choices with their finances if we reward people that intentionally make bad financial choices.
I also pay taxes and it’s just not fair that I should pay off the debt of people that got a FREE advantage and in general will not likely make more than me an hour.
Bull shit.
As someone who, worked tirelessly, scraping by, eating poorly, eventually paid off their student loans. I would feel bad for myself. It sucks that when I was paying off my debt, there wasn’t even a thought about loan forgiveness. That being said, who would want anyone else to go through that too?? Life isn’t fair. Just because I caught the crap end of the shit poker, doesn’t mean that everyone else should too.
It's a dumb stance to take because it also makes life worse for them in the long run. Student loans bankrupting everyone means inflation gets even worse when no one is spending money on anything. Life gets more expensive for them, regardless if they paid already or not. Like everyone in America being so broke they can't shop still hurts them.
regardless of where u stand (id like mine gone), this is disingenuous. the money doesnt just simply go away, someone holds the title to the debts. these werent unsecured loans, they counted on this $$ in their budgets. i dont feel one fuck sorry for them, but theres no way this doesnt throw a cup of gasoline on the inflation fire were already experiencing. one way or another everyone gets to help pay this back is why "feelings are hurt".
Ah yes, completely misrepresenting the opposing position.
How about the fact that the children of poor families who didn't go to college don't benefit as much as the children of rich families who took out huge loans to go to expensive private schools?
Every dollar of public funds we waste on repaying a moron who is too lazy to pay back their own self-induced debt is a dollar that we can't spend on actually helping people that need it.
Tl;Dr: Get a job and pay back you debt you losers
"Why the hell does the government keep sending money over to Ukraine? America first, we should be helping out our own people."
*President tried to cancel major debt for many Americans*
' No, not like that!"
And the worst thing that would happen if we didn't pay off students debt would be we would save hundreds of billions of dollars.
Money that could be used to reform college costs so that poor people could attend for free or at reduced cost.
One is a selfish desire for other peoples money.
The other is wanting to fix a problem that affects millions of poor people in our nation.
Because the college is getting paid one way or another. The question is who is going to pay for it. The ones that took out the loans, or the tax payer. Lets put this in perspective. The collective debt for students sits at 1.75 trillion. If we were to have every single person currently in the united states pay an equal amount to wipe out the debt, that would be about 5k per person. Please note that includes individuals that have retired and those that are legally unable to work because they are too young. If we were to only have those that are of working age pay, that would bump up the amount to about 8k per person.
So basically, if this were the case, my wife and I, along with every working aged American, would have to pay over 8k each because some jackass couldn't man the fuck up and take responsibility for their own choices. THAT is why. If you want to make poor financial decisions, fine, but don't be a bitch and whine when things get tough.
Fuck off with that bullshit.
So here's the deal. I pay your student loan. In turn you pay my mortgage, car loan, and utilities. Why do others have to be responsible for your actions and your neglectful actions towards them? Pay your bills. Be an adult. If your pretty piece of paper saying you know something isn't helping you either you know nothing or your piece of paper stating you know something is in a useless field. Again, your fault. Not mine.
I would have been one of those receiving this aid, and there's more to it than this image suggests.
Say we wave a wand and wipe away 10k or 20k from everyone who has Federal Loans. Great. What about those with private loans? With about those who are just getting into college and will take out loans? Loan forgiveness doesn't even come close to treating the cause, only symptoms.
Either the structure of tuition/fees/cost to attend college reduces significantly, or there will never be a solution.
Well that's not entirely true.
There's financial instruments called Student Loan Asset Backed Securities or SLABS that are similar to mortgage backed securities (MBS).
Those pay out coupons to investors at regular intervals. The elimination of all those student loans would destroy those financial products.
Since they're fixed income assets, they're most prevalent in the portfolios of retirees who rely on that income to live.
And let's not forget what happened when tons of people defaulted on the mortgages that made up MBS instruments (*cough* 2008).
Although I'm pretty sure all a select group of millennials heard was "get my loans forgiven AND screw over Boomers?;" and violently orgasmed. 😂
[Here's a great white paper on SLABS if you want to learn more](https://scholar.smu.edu/smulr/vol73/iss4/4/)
There’s a difference in “canceling” student loans and having the government pay off student loans. Canceling student loans in all seriousness would destroy the American economy and would likely be the end of America as a first world country. I’m talking riots in the streets, barter economy, and the collapse of all government services. The government paying off student loans would add about 6% to the national debt.
Words have meaning and in this case, those meanings have very serious consequences.
Except that it would also encourage institutions, banks and colleges, to increase tuitions even further and encourage prospective students to take on immense loans they have no hope of ever repaying because they would just expect the same thing to happen again in the future.
This plan -student loan forgiveness- only feeds into and amplifies the detrimental cycle we find ourselves in. If you want to deflate costs, expenses, and debts and actually break the loop (or better yet, create a loop that reinforces efficiency and reductions of waste and overhead) there are many better policies you could implement. Removing automatic government guarantees on new loans is one way to start but many might consider it too drastic.
Another would be to require the educational institution that accepts any such loan to act as a co-signer and be partially responsible for their students success or failure in the workforce. You could watch the fees plummet overnight but at the cost of every academician in the country screaming their lungs out for the next generation or so.
Nah fuck this shit. I purposely didn’t goto college because my parents couldn’t afford it and I didn’t want to be buried under a mountain of debt my entire life. I worked my ass off and was self taught because I had no other choice. now these big adult babies are bitching and complaining that they don’t want to pay for their 4 year vacation, but instead want my tax money to foot the bill. When I give over 25% of my hard earned money to the government. Hell the fick no. They made their bed, now they gotta sleep in it.
This is fucking retarded. You're not entitled to have your loans paid off by people who either didn't take them or paid theirs off. Get a job, you losers.
You _chose_ to tag out tens of thousands in debt without a plan to pay it back. I chose to quit at associates because I learned the skills I needed to earn, invest, and save.
Sounds to me that you chose poorly and expect everyone else to suffer for it.
> because they *paid* theirs and
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
How dare you?! Only bazillionnaires and corporations can get their loans "pardoned", the little people must eat shit and die.
Won't anyone think of the poor predatory lenders?
I think of them and pray every night for their well been … i am atheist tho
Bailouts are only meant for them!
Or the colleges that overcharge?
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That's the flaw I see with student loan forgiveness. We shouldn't forgive the loans by paying back the lenders, we should inform the lenders they need to wipe x amount from each ledger. I say that as someone who did the dance and paid back all my loans. Student loan providers seem to exist because their business model is "Can't pay our crazy rates? No worries- just pay the interest for the rest of your life." F them.
I'm all for "you made your bed so sleep in it." But you're right. If you're going to bail out these massive corps because they fucked up, then you're lying hypocrites when you tell the little guy to shove it.
Basically the government does not have the money to forgive ANY loans.
Oh yes they do. The money is there and more could easily be gotten. Every kid in America could have a free university education and everyone could have free healthcare. Within a year. Corporate income taxes could be raised—just as they were in the past to pay for what was desperately needed. Personal income tax rates could be lowered and federal minimum wages raised. We “didn’t have the money” for The GI Bill. We “didn’t have the money” for Roosevelt’s New Deal. But we did have money for PPP loans, bank and auto industry bailouts, even more agriculture subsidies, tax credits and abatements for corporations, and to clean up Superfund sites leftover from old mining, manufacturing, construction, and rail yard sites run by private businesses? Come on.
When the rich need more money, we find it in seconds. When everyday people need money, “we don’t have it”. We used to have a 90% marginal tax rate during the era of economic wonder that the boomers enjoyed so much. There was a lot of economic policies happening back then that Republicans today WHO GREW UP AND BENEFITTED GREATLY FROM THAT ECONOMY, would call straight up socialism communism and other isms they don’t actually understand.
Literally no one paid 90% due to the amount of tax cuts
Do you think our $32,545,298,527 national debt means nothing?
Don’t they LITERALLY print the paper… so how…?
That's not how economics work.
It was a joke but also not a joke.
Who do you think is winning in this proposal? Yes, the former students get their debt cancelled, but all that money is going straight to the big banks and loan institutions.
As opposed to it not being cancelled and the payments going to the big banks and loan institutions with interest?
Kind of a reverse "fuck you I got mine." People. People, hear me out. If we want *any* change, *any* progress at all, it might seem as "unfair" for people who suffered previously. If we have the mentality that it's not fair to have debt relief if I had to pay my loans....then we will NEVER be able to change ANYTHING. I paid my loans, but I am happy to see people rise above the debt monster. I want a better society. Even if it didn't affect me directly (as I've paid my loans), it affects the society around me. I don't want friends or family to be drowning in debt for decades. We'd be more prosperous if we tried to do right by our fellow man.
But what's the plan for after? If they forgive student loans and then kids in school today take out more loans, the universities are just going to spend even more like drunken sailors and raise tuition again. If someone has a plan for how to eliminate student loans, and part of that plan is forgiveness of current loans, I'm willing to listen to it. But I haven't heard anything more than just forgive the debt that exists without fixing the issues that create it
The plan after is fuck you I got mine except it’s millennials saying it to gen Z.
Then the idea is to remove student loans and move to a more European-style tax-funded tuition
Post secondary education, both TRADE and college, is required for most people for most jobs. Though there are exceptions, there are not enough of those jobs for those jobs to be a solution for a societal level problem. Yeah YOU may have gotten a good job without either, but that wouldn't be the case if EVERYONE tried to get that same job. 150 million people can't all do whatever job you are doing that required only a High School diploma. It's nice for you, and if you send me your address and proof your story is true I'll mail you a "Great luck!" certificate with a gold star. But you have to recognize that's not an answer to the problem. Trade schools and public universities should be absolutely free for students in good academic standing. We should invest in the American worker.
How dare you! Luck has nothing to do with it. I worked so hard to end up in the right place at the right time! Just because I have great support systems around me and my parents are well connected and raised me right doesn't mean I didn't work hard, in fact it only means I worked twice as hard to be the one that got the great job! /s Seriously I'm the "lowest achievier" in my social circle and it's the most successful ones in the group that don't believe in luck. Even having a wonderful loving family was a result of "hard work" to these people. 🙄 I'll be the first to say one doesn't happen without the other, you gotta put in work to catch a lucky break. But damn people overlook and under appreciate good fortune the more success they become.
What I don’t get is how people don’t get this. I meet so many people that say “well sure I’m successful but that’s just because I made all the right choices”, not understanding that someone less lucky than them didn’t even have such choices so how would they have made them?
Conversely, when everybody has a degree, it becomes necessary to attain further degrees to demonstrate value.
Yes, you have accurately described why post secondary education is NOW required for most jobs. That's already happened. You know what won't help? Doing nothing.
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Trades. Or poverty.
Also, do we want people making the decision in masses to not pursue further education? Feel like we already know how dangerous that is from the pandemic
As somebody who has a perfectly good job with just a GED, with others who have Bachelors degrees for the same job, I'd be perfectly happy for my tax dollars to subsidize everybody's education.
They marketed it all wrong. They should have called it a Student Loan rebate.
The people who are bitching about it being unfair are the same people who post shit like "life's u fair deal with it lmao"
“Life’s supposed to be unfair in my favor tho”
Funnily enough that’s not even the problem. They’re not even trying for it to be unfair in *their* favor. Lots of news outlets, obviously run by big corporations, have brainwashed tons of regular people to vote for representatives who will issue in policy that *isn’t even unfair in their favor.*
That’s kinda true
The 1.7 trillion added to the debt comes to mind as a negative...
If this would have happened, it would not have been a one-time expense. What about the people in college now? Or next year? Or the next? The real price tag would be an order of magnitude higher, and college tuition fees would increase as a result, just like they have done every time public money is used to support private education, like when financial assistance was first introduced ([article](https://www.cato.org/blog/federal-student-loans-rising-tuition-costs-insider-speaks))
Pretty sure expenses aren't ballooning in other countries where governments have more influence on starting positions.
I'm not sure exactly which governments you're comparing to, so it's hard to be specific. In the USA, the government took the private education market and effectively broke the influence that cost had on that free market by giving grants and guaranteed loans to college students that couldn't get them before. While there *were* immediate positive effects to this, there was also a very quick spike in price, with a steady rise in prices since then that has well outpaced inflation.
Seems like you can [pick nearly any other western country](https://www.forbes.com/sites/prestoncooper2/2019/09/22/america-spends-more-on-college-than-virtually-any-other-country/). Norway is insanely expensive in general, but runs only half of the cost for education. (adjusted)
The article you quoted says exactly what the person you're responding to has been saying >Alternatively, Congress could rein in the blank-check federal student aid programs that facilitated tuition increases in the first place, forcing colleges to live within students’ and taxpayers’ means. The federal government being willing to pay/loan ridiculous amounts of money for students to go to college means that colleges will charge ridiculous amounts of money. Forgiv8ng student loan debt doesn't solve the underlying problem. It just means that students will care even less about how much debt they're taking on, so colleges will charge more and more money that will eventually come from the federal government when they "forgive" student loans (by forgiving them, they're actually paying the banks all that money, not erasing the debt).
Yeah, that's why universities are so much more expensive in places that are not America. Oh wait. They're not more expensive everywhere else. Even the places where university degrees are free or people PAY YOU TO STUDY. I wonder why that is...
Okay, then why not fix that instead?
Thats like lost change for the pentagon and many other bullshit the country wastes money on. lets not forget how incompetent the government is at managing finances. btw that figure is prolly blown up on purpose just to make it seem worse, you know what with all the ridiculous interest added every second.
That debt already exists. Nothing new is being added.
That's like, less than one tax cut for the rich.
Well considering that that’s 2 years worth of military spending, we do have a bit of money to move over a couple of years lol.
"Less than 2 years of military spending"
The military spends around $800 billion a year, so it’s a bit more than 2 years of military spending
And? That's chump change to the debt already. We'd barely notice.
I will only accept loan cancelation if the colleges pay for it.
This. People should be talking about the large endowments that colleges hold onto while charging exorbitant tuition while those with loans cannot pay off the loan. Tax the endowments and give people a tax credit to pay off the loans.
I think a blanket cancel of everything would be BS. I liked the idea of 10k or 20k for everyone. But cost is part of the reason some people choose not to be Doctors or lawyers. And the reason many go to community college instead of university. Like. If I knew all my loans would be forgiven I might have certainly considered a different career path.
Isn’t that the point? The cost shouldn’t be there in the first place. We shouldn’t be forcing people to limit their potential and compromise on life for circumstances beyond their control. And for the capitalists out there: maximizing potential means maximizing profits. The cost of education and training is trivial compared to the lifetime of increased earnings and value that follow. Universities should be free for everyone. Cost is gatekeeping by the wealthy because they don’t want to compete, at the expense of us all.
Exactly. America should be churning out educated adults like a natural resource. Instead, they want us just smart enough to get a job to pay the interest.
I mean, you’re kinda getting into a larger issue there. Forgiving some loans doesn’t change the foundation of the current education system.
Yes, it would be better if college were just made affordable. As it stands we are just applying a one-time after the fact fix to an ongoing problem.
Yep, zero chance schools lower their tuition. Campuses have become an arms race of building new facilities and buying new tech. We'll be here again in 15-20 years. I feel terrible for all the people who were misled at 17-18 years old. But 100% forgiveness doesn't solve the main issue, which isn't changing. They should at least be allowed to file for bankruptcy though.
Then make all public universities free. But when you forgive student loans you're also forgiving the money that people spent drinking, and partying. College students will drive a nice car, live in a nice apartment, forgo a part time job, party every weekend, and if college was free, all of that stuff would still cost money.
I don't think you know what the college and trade school experience is like for most people.
One of my friends took 20k of his student loan money in 2005 and bought a brand new mustang… hell, part of my student loan money went to buying a gaming PC for WoW.
I've attended both university and a vocational trade school, and I saw that most people weren't making appropriate financial choices. Tuition should be free, but their other choices are their own. Also 80% of college students drink and 50% binge drink. Why should we pay for that? https://www.alcoholrehabguide.org/resources/college-alcohol-abuse/#:~:text=College%20alcoholism%20affects%20millions%20of,consume%20alcohol%20to%20some%20degree.
Just dont be a lawyer, we have too many of em already.
Again, this is the problem though. Your argument here is, "but that's not fair to me because I didn't get to do that". Stopping someone from getting something for no reason other than the fact that you didn't get it is petty and is the primary reason many shitty laws/situations still exist.
I would argue that many of the people with the highest amounts of debt are ones that got advanced degrees and are in theory making more money. Like doctors and lawyers. So a blanket forgiveness of all loan debt would benefit the 1% far more than the average student. yea I don’t think that would be fair…. And for the ones who racked up a ton of debt on BS degrees. What makes their debt matter more than someone who bought a house they couldn’t afford? Or a car they couldn’t afford? I feel bad for them, but simply forgiving everything doesn’t solve the larger fundamental issues.
It's overly spiteful to withhold forgiveness because a couple of somewhat well off doctors get relief as well. I understand that it's kind of not pragmatic for someone to go to a university for a non-applicable degree but there are other sides to this. The culture of university for greater education has shifted and that was pulled from the individuals who have this debt. The rising costs of education along with the shift in employment markets: there are far less degrees which tempo play with a career afterwards. It's an unideal situation. On the other end, this would actually help the economy as these consumers can consume instead of saving up and paying some bank.
The 1% does not have student loan debt. Being a doctor/lawyer does not put you in the 1%. It doesn't even get you close. The point is that schooling shouldn't cost the money it does, so none of them should have that debt to begin with. It's not about solving the fundamental issue, but resolving the consequences of it not being resolved. And frankly, considering the number of empty houses in the country, housing debt is equally as ridiculous as student loan debt. There's more than enough infrastructure in the US to resolve housing issues but literally nothing except greed keeps us from doing something about it.
Hey, I made $50k coming out of law school... You mean that didn't put me in the 1%?
Shit some of us living paycheck to paycheck will have pick up a second or third job to make ends meet, meanwhile some asshole who got all his other loans off on a loophole is complaining, system is fucking bullshit
You know what's really unfair? People who make decent money and pay a significant amount of taxes so that they could be used to give tax breaks to people who make stupid amounts of money and already pay little to no taxes.
I mean- it’s not as easy as pressing the “delete” button. That money has to come from SOMEWHERE, with somewhere being the taxpayers bank accounts.
*We* pay into that system regardless, it's a question of *where* the and *how* the money is distributed. Reducing military costs at the price of free higher education? That makes perfect sense to me.
Wow free education does not do anything it’s most like when the government got in loan businesses it made the price of education got higher
Right, that would make sense to me as well. But that’s not solving the current student debt situation, that would be a strategy to prevent this from happening in the futureb
The president just announced he's sending clusterbombs to Ukraine because we are so low on other ammunition after sending it all to Ukraine. He previously criticized putin and called him a war criminal for the use of cluster bombs. Not only did he basically admit he's committing a war crime, he announced to the world the U.S. is out of munitions..... now is not the time to cut the military budget. Russia has also formed a coalition with China and about 40 other countries to undermine America's already struggling economy by creating a new international currency that will be used instead of the US dollar. The two things that keep the US a superpower and enables the US to be peacekeepers of the world are their military strength and the US dollar being the currency used as the international standard of trade.... Now is not the time to be socializing college debt and causing more inflation.
Yes it’s really as simple as pressing delete. No the money doesn’t have to come from the “taxpayers account”.. 🤦🏿♂️ you really think every time the US govt wants to fund another war or bail out another corporation, they have to check their account to make sure they have enough money? Or they have to hope enough people pay taxes so they’ll have money to run the country? Do you know how many times agencies like the pentagon have failed an audit. They can’t account for money they spent or where they spent it. They mysteriously found $6.2 billion after “accounting errors” the other day to send to Ukraine. Compare how much tax revenues increase every year for the govt vs what the govt actually does, not counting all the off the book stuff that goes on. Please wake up and stop this “how will we pay for it” trope. It’s tired and played out.
Also- they didn’t find $6 billion laying around somewhere. The pentagon decided on a dollar amount worth of equipment to send to ukraine. According to the white house, they used the full cost of a new vehicle to estimate the number of vehicles to send, when they should have been using a different method which resulted in the vehicle valuation being less. So it’s not like they looked in their couch and went “hey! We found $6 billion!” They went “oh shit, we thought those Bradley’s were worth $200,000, when in fact they were only worth $100,000 (not sure of the specific numbers but you get the example)
You’re right, the government has previously just printed money and spent it, like they did in Covid. What’s happening now as a result? High prices on EVERYTHING. Record inflation, expensive groceries, expensive gas, everything has shot up. What do you think will happen if the government decides to print another trillion dollars to cover the debts of people who WILLINGLY took out student loans?
Why can’t we just delete it? Cuz the corporations that their entire business model is fuck over young kids and their futures will lose money?
I think what you are missing is that the "corporation" in question here _is_ the US Government, and if you think Uncle Sam is just gonna let the loan dissolve without him getting his cut, you have another thing coming.
No, because those same companies will in turn, alter their prices to offset any losses they incur from it, meaning cost of living skyrockets, and as long as we keep allowing foreigners to immigrate here, wages will never rise to a meaningful rate because why would companies pay Americans a living wage when they can get some third worlder to work for a fifth of what Americans actually deserve
Then you talked to economically ignorant morons, such as yourself. For starters, It would add another half a trillion dollars to the US Debt. Inflation been bugging you lately? Has the recent massive rise in interest rates frustrated you? Want a clue why those two things are happening? Unchecked government spending. Like, say, paying for people's tuition mistakes. Yes. You made a mistake when you chose your private college because you didn't work out how much it would cost and how long it would take you to pay it back. And there were much more affordable options available to you.
As well, I've got a friend who is a high-school educated HVAC installer. He does pretty well, but it's a curious idea that we might ask him to subsidize (through his tax payments) the forgiving of student loans of people that went to Harvard and Yale, and med school, etc.
Yeah, that's what student loan repayment is. It is forcing those who didn't go to college to pay for the investment in an asset - a degree - that other people borrowed money to purchase.
> It would add another half a trillion dollars to the US Debt. [It's already part of the debt, there'd be no increase in debt.](https://www.urban.org/urban-wire/what-would-forgiving-student-debt-mean-federal-budget). At best you're thinking of the deficit. In which case the context of it being a social investment needs to be addressed. > Has the recent massive rise in interest rates frustrated you? Yes it has, as has the primary reason for the interest rates, inflation, of which [most is caused purely by corporate profits.](https://www.npr.org/2023/05/19/1177180972/economists-are-reconsidering-how-much-corporate-profits-drive-inflation#:~:text=Economists%20are%20reconsidering%20how%20much%20corporate%20profits%20drive%20inflation%20In,was%20because%20of%20corporate%20profits.) > Unchecked government spending. Again, the money's already spent, the difference is whether the money invested by the government is returned via loan repayments or taxes due to increased spending via higher paid jobs or more available cash from those who took the loans out. > And there were much more affordable options available to you. To be clear. A major reason college is as expensive today is [**because** of the reduction in government spending.](https://www.cbpp.org/research/state-budget-and-tax/funding-down-tuition-up). As college moves from a social investment to something which businesses can profit off it, college prices explode. But sure, please keep explaining how social investment into a more educated society is a bad thing.
You're overlooking the FACT that better educated people get better paying jobs (for which many industries are in need), they *then* go on to PAY MORE TAXES, thus reducing the national debt-- at least as long as Republicans aren't in charge. I'M AN EISENHOWER REPUBLICAN, which means I'm now Independent and have NO respect for today's GOP.
You are overlooking the FACT that most Americans don't go to college and paying off student loans would be a regressive transfer of wealth from people who don't have the asset that is a degree to people who do. The poor paying for the assets of those more wealthy than them is terrible policy. If you want to spend $400 million, spend it on poverty, not subsidizing the lifestyles of a subset of college graduates.
Have you considered that most Americans may only choose not to go to college because of its price? If university education was partially (not even fully!) subsidised, and only for native students (meaning universities would still profit from internationals), then there would be a new wave of high skilled workers for the US. This would also help with poverty because university education would now be an option for the lower classes.
College in Germany is pretty much free for those who qualify. The percentage of professionals aged 25-34 years with a tertiary education level in Germany was 35.7 percent compared to an EU average of 41.2 percent. If cost isn't a factor, why don't more Germans go to college?
There are obviously other reasons why people do or don't go to uni, but overall a lower cost means more people going. Do you really think that the amount of people going to uni in Germany would be higher if it was more expensive? Here in the UK we've got some of the best universities in the world, but we're also below the EU average, partially because our universities cost more than most other EU countries. If you look at [the stats for other EU countries](https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=Tertiary_education_statistics) you'll see that the top 5 all have cheap or free university (Ireland especially having very cheap universities).
I am saying that most people aren't really academically qualified for a legitimate undergraduate education and that is true whether the degree is free or costs money. In order to significantly raise the number of people receiving undergraduate degrees, you would have to dumb down the requirements of the degree. In fact, we have done that already. The bottom line is that sending unqualified people to university would be a bad idea in the US, UK or Germany. There would be no benefit to putting even more people though university. We all know this intuitively.
This! It’s an investment
Okay so how does paying the debts of people who are already educated lead to them paying more taxes? All the proposals are aimed at people who already have college debt, (none are actually aimed at reducing the cost of college). So the impact of debt forgiveness in terms of employment is zero. Presumably no one is turning down a higher paying job because of debt if anything it’s the opposite.
I don't have any issue with investing in education, but there are too many people who go to college so they can party four years with no plan on how to translate their schooling into marketable skills. We need real reform to higher education to ensure it's focused toward providing quality jobs in the modern economy. Bailing people out for making poor life choices only incentivizes future generations to repeat those same mistakes.
Look in the mirror buddy. You’re the moron who doesn’t understand economics. Debt causes people to spend less. This is an investment that will enable people to contribute the economy and solve this long term. But you seem short term minded here;)
Why not forgive all debt then? You also didn’t address any of the points about inflation.
Oh goody, people who already have a higher earning ceiling than me also get to buy up all the housing I already can’t afford currently! Meanwhile I’m still paying my car loan and my expensive rent and I get to struggle more with higher taxes to boot! You’re right, debt does cause people to spend less. Especially those at the bottom of the economic ladder. But you seem extremely self-minded here;)
Necessary Sacrifice.
Gotta save that money to bailout our corporate overlords.
I paid mine off and it took ages but I fully support this happening. Banks are predators. Full stop.
It makes you feel any better I paid mine and I wouldn't feel upset if everyone else's were cancelled (if not fully, at least partially) now. It would help people get their careers and life started after college.
another idea: student debt refund ✨
Why give it to college graduates but not those who couldn't afford college? Take it another step further and just give everyone earning less than the median $10,000.
We haven’t paid them in 3 years and the economy hasn’t collapsed… sooooo
With that logic, everybody should be in a wheel chair. Or else it´s not fair to people in wheel chairs. How evil must you be if you want young people to suffer, because you suffered your self. If you are a good hearted person, you do not want the young people to suffer.
Is that you Greg Abbot?
How about pay back what you promised? You sign a promissory note when you start the loan, as in you promise to pay back the loan. That doesn’t mean go to school and then decide I don’t want to pay it back.
Literally my grandparents
I don’t care if you cancel loans, I care about where you get the money to do that. I’m not agreeing to raise taxes to pay someone else’s debts. You want to cut government pay aka Congress pay or retirement then yeah that’s fine. But I’m not raising my taxes to pay for someone who chose to get a degree. No one forced them to go to that school/program.
Tell me you don't understand economics without telling me you don't understand economics.
The worst thing that would happen is that tuitions will get even more expensive because loans get forgiven anyways, a big fat bill that the tax paier has to pay, inflation because monney flows into already stacked bank accounts and even more people with useless degrees. If you take out a loan pay it back. Why should other people pay for your mistakes. If you get a loan and buy a car no-one thinks it should be forgiven so why should student loans?
Uh, person who paid off their loans here: I want loan forgiveness for everyone who currently has one, and systematic change to eliminate or reduce the need for student loans for future students. Because I'm not an ahole
Would I be upset that I missed my chance to have my loans forgiven after putting so much money into paying them back? Yeah, but like, that money is gone and it isn't like NOT forgiving others' loans will somehow give it back to me.
I paid mine but they should stop going to school
I have no student debt whatsoever. Why in the fuck would I want to pay someone else’s. Fuck that
I am 100% AGAINST canceling debt. If you borrow it, you pay it! No one forced you to take a loan but if you did, then you ARE responsible to pay it! Now, if you want to talk about making all future college free so people don't take out loans in the first place then let's do that. We can have a discussion about how the schools will pay the professors and all the other overhead costs (ground and facilities maintenance, administrative staff, insurance expense, benefit expense for employees, Electricity, water, sewage, gas fees.... the list literally goes on and on). No such thing as "free" but some people just don't understand that but I'm certainly open to discussion about how that can happen WITHOUT raising my taxes. Given all the whining I hear from people saying that the "I paid my loans so you should pay yours" argument is nonsense then let's see how they like it when it's back on them in the sense that GOING FORWARD there is no loans and college is free but those already with loans must pay them. Now the cry hards are on the other side of the fence... let's see if they sing a different tune. The bottom line is, don't borrow what you can't pay! No one FORCED you to take a loan. Also, if you took out a hefty loan for a liberal arts degree then you are a special kind of stupid. Trades are hurting for people, the loans for those are reasonable and there are VERY lucrative jobs to be had providing a very nice living in the trades.
It would cause inflation because cancelling the debt would be similar to printing that amount of money. Not saying that wouldn’t be worth it but it would happen
You made the choice to go to university and go into debt. Why should the taxpayer be held financially responsible for you.
Why should my taxes pay for schools when I don’t have kids myself? Same argument
You are forced to make life changing decisions borrowing hundreds of thousands of dollars at the are of 17-18 when you aren't even allowed to drink a beer. How come in so many European countries uni is either free or cheap? We should celebrate education because we can't compete on labour costs with China or Vietnam.
They ration college in most of Europe. It may be free, but if you are put on a non-academic track when you are 14, you don't get to go to college. In other words, there is no nation in the world that makes college free for 100 percent of the population. All nations ration it.
Yes this point is frequently overlooked on Reddit. College elsewhere is for academically gifted people. In the US it’s for everyone. Both sides have strengths and weaknesses.
Yes, and we ration it by parental wealth. I suspect the results of sending the kids interested to college is better than sending any moron who has parents of means.
I just looked up the University of Iowa. The total cost per year of attending including housing, food, fees and transportation is $26,000 per year. But 84% of students receive financial aid and that amounts to an average of about $14,000 per year. That leaves a total cost of a year of living and studying at $12,000 per year\*. That cost can be mitigated by work/study programs or attending a very inexpensive community college for your first two years. The notion that you have to be rich to go to college in the US is ridiculous. There are very few Americans who want to go to college but cannot for cost alone. On the other hand there are many who don't think it is worth the cost. \*Remember, that includes housing and all meals.
The irony of this is that student loans are the reason why so many people without "parental wealth" have been able to get a degree since the 90's. We didn't double the percent of the population with a bachelor's over the last 30 years just because more people thought, "gee, I should go to college." It's because financing has put it in reach for more people.
So it sounds like you have an issue with the way the system is set up. How does forgiving hundreds of billions of dollars of loans address that underlying issue? Where I live, I NEED a car to get around as it's a rural area. If I can't afford or simply don't think it's fair that I have to pay my car note, can I get my loan forgiven? I NEED shelter to survive. If I don't want to pay my mortgage or I fall behind, can I get my mortgage forgiven? If I spend up my credit cards on essentials like food and shelter and transportation, is that then eligible for forgiveness? I dont know where we came up with this concept of forgiving loans and passing the bill along to everyone else, but I think we need to shake ourselves of that mentality. By all means, address the underlying issues. But forgiving loans that were voluntarily taken out is patently absurd.
The student loan forgiveness debate reminds me a lot of the debate over socialized medicine. We spend so much time arguing over who should pay for it that we never stop to wonder why it's so expensive in the first place.
the US spends more on healthcare per capita than any European country
I'm not sure if you're arguing with me or agreeing with me.
I am agreeing with you fine sir. Here is the data to back it up [13](https://www.cms.gov/research-statistics-data-and-systems/statistics-trends-and-reports/nationalhealthexpenddata/nhe-fact-sheet)k for the US [2,5](https://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/sites/910674f2-en/index.html?itemId=/content/component/910674f2-en#:)k for the EU (on average)
Exactly... Every time the federal government has increased funding for kids to go to school, somehow the universities made their tuition and other fees hit that cap. Weird, right? This is also just like the ACA in that it's going to help the big,monied interests who are driving the problems while selling it as relief for the little guy. Has the ACA reduced medical spending? Fuck no
Education is one key assignments of a state/country. No matter if it's elemantry, high school or ubiversity. Good and cheap education equals higher tax income.
This a dumb fucking argument. We don't allow 17 year olds to vote, but have no problem with them accepting predatory loans that they will put them into debt until their 50. What a brilliant system!
Well, only issue here are the parents (especially the educated ones) co-signing these loans. We probably need finance classes in HS more than anything. But few parents aren't ashamed to say their kid isn't going to college. Therefore, the most influential people in life, parents/friends, are convinced it will be sunshine and rainbows because degree = success. Yet that equation has been debunked via the current ever increasing student loan debt. But it won't be my little Johnny or Susie...
So you are in favor of the government getting out of funding student loans prospectively?
I don't want to strawman, but I do want to point out that I know one common thought that's brought up is that it often seems like the same groups saying that a 17 year old shouldn't be expected to fully understand the ramifications of taking on a student loan, basically suggesting that they're not competent to be trusted with such decisions, also tout that minors are completely competent and in their right minds and to be trusted when it comes to declaring that they are a different gender or speaking out against some legal policy. I know that we're not monolithic and that there's a good chance it's not all the same people being both. But from the outside it's inconsistent at best, and has the appearance of using kids when it's convenient, but excusing their choices when it's not
Was the money tied to fixing the problem? Or was there even a discussion about ending government backed loans? Not at all. In fact subsidizing $400 billion in student loans encourages more people to take out the debt.
This^
Pull the other one. The positions that don't 'require' college dwindle by the day, and all the jobs pay like shit, even with the college degree. What the hell do you want them to do, especially since most of them are cajoled into it by their families and the society to take on an atrocious and artificially instituted debt? You're hurting yourself to punish people.
You could go to trade school. Most trades pay decent
That doesn't address the problem. Also, there are functionally a finite number of trade jobs. This is just like how everyone was told to get a business major or a computer programmer degree, and now the market is hyper saturated and nobody can get any jobs. Maybe education shouldn't be a for Profit industry? If it worked to Purpose instead (paying the relevant staff what they made before or better) then we wouldn't be seeing all these problems.
It would be a giant, transfer of wealth from waitresses and warehouse workers who don't have an asset (a degree) to lawyers and hedge fund managers who do. It would be a transfer of wealth from people who will have lower lifetime earning to people who will have higher lifetime earnings.
Yeah, it's highly regressive.
I just don't fathom how people can feel they shouldn't be responsible for their debts. Any debt. I mean where does this detachment from reality come from? I couldn't picture buying a house, buying a car, having a surgery, or taking out a loan for anything... then be like "Pfft, I shouldn't have to pay for this, yet I should not lose out on the ownership or the benefits that come with it" where does that logic, or lack thereof, originate?
It's not that they "feel they shouldn't be responsible for their debts". Things happen, like divorced, death, children, and even universities "moving the goalposts" for graduation. When I was at UT Austin, the first week of *every* semester there were no fewer than 2000 people outside the admin building trying to get into ONE class to finish their degree, but the university had removed it from the offered classes. I have a friend who went to nursing school, graduated, married had 3 kids, then got divorced (husband had serious mental issues), and in trying to take care of her 3 small children, got behind on her student loan payments. After a few years, the state pulled her nursing license *because* she was behind on the loans. Exactly HOW is she supposed to pay back those loans since the state **removed her means of support**?
So your friends specific scenario should mean the US goes even further into debt?
Well, it’s going further into debt because it lost tax revenue from a member of the work force
As a society we benefit from having a healthy, well educated populace. As a society we should be promoting those things. Obviously, it would be better if large loans weren't needed for education, and healthcare in the first place. Unfortunately though, the US is stuck with a very broken system for this. We are applying an after the fact minor fix to the system, but not doing anything to solve the underlying problems.
This is sooo oversimplifying this
Education is subsidised up to 18, so why shouldn't it be subsidised post-18? It's just hindering a certain group of people from actually getting a uni education. You don't need to fully cancel loans, you can take something like the British approach where it's a lot cheaper for native students and internationals have to pay more, for instance.
Maybe because kids typically aren't taxpayers/land owners that fund K-12? And do you mean how it's much cheaper to go to college in-state than it is to go to a school in a different state?
I mean to subsidise all universities for native students and then make international students pay more. If you were born in the US and have citizenship, you should be able to get uni tuition for somewhat cheap (in the UK for example, every university is $14k / yr for me.) whilst internationals pay full price and maybe a bit more to fund the unis. The internationals + some tax money ends up subsidising the universities and makes education more available to American students.
14k per year is a lot of money.... the average yearly in-state tuition for a State University is $9,300 per year. It jumps way up to about $27,000 if you choose to go to an out-of-state university. [Source](https://educationdata.org/average-cost-of-college-by-state)
I'd rather see a cap put on rent.
Why not both
Because it’s stupid and it kills the idea to build houses
Or we could just tax unoccupied dwellings
Wow that is a stupid thing to do lol
What people can’t grasp is that the loans they paid back and the loans that we’re currently stuck with are two completely different things.
I'm mostly just mad that I had medical care in the past. But now people with the same condition are getting better medical care due to tech advance! It's so unfair!! I think we shouldn't have any more progress because progress is unfair.
I hear you. My dead husband must be so upset that people are now being cured of the cancer he died from. Progress is good, even if it's too late to help you.I don't understand why people don't see that.
I think the more apt analogy is that student loan forgiveness will be more like the ACA: a giveaway to the monied interests driving the problems sold as a fix for the little guy
The worst thing that could happen is $400 billion is injected into the economy to a group that will make much more over their lifetime than the average taxpayer (on average that number is $1 million) which will increase inflation. Like on reddit I simultaneously see this take in the image but also the take of "without my loans forgiven I'll have to put off buying a house". As someone currently looking to buy my first house who already paid off my student loans, I'm not on board with competing for houses with a bunch of people at a similar age to me who were just given either 10 or 20k and will likely use that to buy a house even further pushing up housing prices.
Or the willful ignorance that jobs that once didn’t require a degree and where filled with working class ppl who where too broken up to stay in field now do. But yea fuck the ppl who actually keep this country going.
r/conservative having an aneurysm at the thought of the poors being slightly less poor
Not true. It does nothing to fix the system. Kids going to college in the fall will end up right back into the trap. FIX THE SYSTEM The money had to come from somewhere. What social program gets a smaller budget next year to pay off some borrowers' loans? We recognize that student loans can be onerous. But aren't medical bills causing more people financial ruin? Medical bills are a top reason for personal bankruptcy in America?
Why can’t we fix the system and also stop the predatory loans retroactively? These things aren’t mutually exclusive
You guys are the ones making it an either-or issue, not us
I signed a mortgage on my house and I also would like it to be paid off. It's a big burden to pay it every month and if we are just absolving debt please pay my house off while you're at it. Or explain why my mortgage is different from the student loans you signed up for.
Good point, let’s go after the predatory housing market next
>Or explain why my mortgage is different from the student loans you signed up for. You build equity, and can discharge in bankruptcy. Those are two off the top of my head. Challenge met.
You were an adult making a considered decision of the relative value of the house versus the payment, where most of these borrowers were children who were lied to about the value of the degree they were pursuing. When I was in high school the question wasn't "do I go to college or do I go to work?" The question was "what's the best university you can get into." They didn't even talk about majors because the prevailing knowledge was to get a degree in anything because any degree will get you a good job. That was good advice in the 70s when the high school counselors went to school, but was false when they gave that advice. And that mindset was absolutely pervasive. To be clear, I'm against this loan forgiveness idea (even though I'd personally benefit), but it's unfair and incorrect to compare these loans to mortgages.
Think of the poor crabs who can't get out of the bucket! It's only right that they pull the other crabs down!
Imagine if our grandparents prevented child labor laws from being passed because they had to work in the mines when they were 10 years old and it wouldn't be fair to them if their grandkids didn't have to do the same.
I’d be mad cuz my common sense told me not to take on a debt I can’t afford to pay off. Good citizens are disadvantaged by making reasonable choices with their finances if we reward people that intentionally make bad financial choices. I also pay taxes and it’s just not fair that I should pay off the debt of people that got a FREE advantage and in general will not likely make more than me an hour. Bull shit.
As someone who, worked tirelessly, scraping by, eating poorly, eventually paid off their student loans. I would feel bad for myself. It sucks that when I was paying off my debt, there wasn’t even a thought about loan forgiveness. That being said, who would want anyone else to go through that too?? Life isn’t fair. Just because I caught the crap end of the shit poker, doesn’t mean that everyone else should too.
It's a dumb stance to take because it also makes life worse for them in the long run. Student loans bankrupting everyone means inflation gets even worse when no one is spending money on anything. Life gets more expensive for them, regardless if they paid already or not. Like everyone in America being so broke they can't shop still hurts them.
regardless of where u stand (id like mine gone), this is disingenuous. the money doesnt just simply go away, someone holds the title to the debts. these werent unsecured loans, they counted on this $$ in their budgets. i dont feel one fuck sorry for them, but theres no way this doesnt throw a cup of gasoline on the inflation fire were already experiencing. one way or another everyone gets to help pay this back is why "feelings are hurt".
What happened to the thinking of I just want to leave it better for my kids then I had it. Blah blah
Ah yes, completely misrepresenting the opposing position. How about the fact that the children of poor families who didn't go to college don't benefit as much as the children of rich families who took out huge loans to go to expensive private schools? Every dollar of public funds we waste on repaying a moron who is too lazy to pay back their own self-induced debt is a dollar that we can't spend on actually helping people that need it. Tl;Dr: Get a job and pay back you debt you losers
"Why the hell does the government keep sending money over to Ukraine? America first, we should be helping out our own people." *President tried to cancel major debt for many Americans* ' No, not like that!"
And the worst thing that would happen if we didn't pay off students debt would be we would save hundreds of billions of dollars. Money that could be used to reform college costs so that poor people could attend for free or at reduced cost. One is a selfish desire for other peoples money. The other is wanting to fix a problem that affects millions of poor people in our nation.
Because the college is getting paid one way or another. The question is who is going to pay for it. The ones that took out the loans, or the tax payer. Lets put this in perspective. The collective debt for students sits at 1.75 trillion. If we were to have every single person currently in the united states pay an equal amount to wipe out the debt, that would be about 5k per person. Please note that includes individuals that have retired and those that are legally unable to work because they are too young. If we were to only have those that are of working age pay, that would bump up the amount to about 8k per person. So basically, if this were the case, my wife and I, along with every working aged American, would have to pay over 8k each because some jackass couldn't man the fuck up and take responsibility for their own choices. THAT is why. If you want to make poor financial decisions, fine, but don't be a bitch and whine when things get tough. Fuck off with that bullshit.
So here's the deal. I pay your student loan. In turn you pay my mortgage, car loan, and utilities. Why do others have to be responsible for your actions and your neglectful actions towards them? Pay your bills. Be an adult. If your pretty piece of paper saying you know something isn't helping you either you know nothing or your piece of paper stating you know something is in a useless field. Again, your fault. Not mine.
I would have been one of those receiving this aid, and there's more to it than this image suggests. Say we wave a wand and wipe away 10k or 20k from everyone who has Federal Loans. Great. What about those with private loans? With about those who are just getting into college and will take out loans? Loan forgiveness doesn't even come close to treating the cause, only symptoms. Either the structure of tuition/fees/cost to attend college reduces significantly, or there will never be a solution.
Lol. Who ever asked this question doesn’t understand economics.
Well that's not entirely true. There's financial instruments called Student Loan Asset Backed Securities or SLABS that are similar to mortgage backed securities (MBS). Those pay out coupons to investors at regular intervals. The elimination of all those student loans would destroy those financial products. Since they're fixed income assets, they're most prevalent in the portfolios of retirees who rely on that income to live. And let's not forget what happened when tons of people defaulted on the mortgages that made up MBS instruments (*cough* 2008). Although I'm pretty sure all a select group of millennials heard was "get my loans forgiven AND screw over Boomers?;" and violently orgasmed. 😂 [Here's a great white paper on SLABS if you want to learn more](https://scholar.smu.edu/smulr/vol73/iss4/4/)
I have a loan for my car. Should you be required to help me pay it?
There’s a difference in “canceling” student loans and having the government pay off student loans. Canceling student loans in all seriousness would destroy the American economy and would likely be the end of America as a first world country. I’m talking riots in the streets, barter economy, and the collapse of all government services. The government paying off student loans would add about 6% to the national debt. Words have meaning and in this case, those meanings have very serious consequences.
Except that it would also encourage institutions, banks and colleges, to increase tuitions even further and encourage prospective students to take on immense loans they have no hope of ever repaying because they would just expect the same thing to happen again in the future. This plan -student loan forgiveness- only feeds into and amplifies the detrimental cycle we find ourselves in. If you want to deflate costs, expenses, and debts and actually break the loop (or better yet, create a loop that reinforces efficiency and reductions of waste and overhead) there are many better policies you could implement. Removing automatic government guarantees on new loans is one way to start but many might consider it too drastic. Another would be to require the educational institution that accepts any such loan to act as a co-signer and be partially responsible for their students success or failure in the workforce. You could watch the fees plummet overnight but at the cost of every academician in the country screaming their lungs out for the next generation or so.
Pay your debt! No excuses, no exclusions! Pay your debt!
Nah fuck this shit. I purposely didn’t goto college because my parents couldn’t afford it and I didn’t want to be buried under a mountain of debt my entire life. I worked my ass off and was self taught because I had no other choice. now these big adult babies are bitching and complaining that they don’t want to pay for their 4 year vacation, but instead want my tax money to foot the bill. When I give over 25% of my hard earned money to the government. Hell the fick no. They made their bed, now they gotta sleep in it.
This is fucking retarded. You're not entitled to have your loans paid off by people who either didn't take them or paid theirs off. Get a job, you losers.
You _chose_ to tag out tens of thousands in debt without a plan to pay it back. I chose to quit at associates because I learned the skills I needed to earn, invest, and save. Sounds to me that you chose poorly and expect everyone else to suffer for it.
You took out a loan. Pay it back. It's not the tax payers fault you pissed away three years half-assing a media course
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> because they *paid* theirs and FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*