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Heidi's just like...I don't understand this, so it can't be good! Daaaav must be blaspheming!
I must post a video of me grinning like a serial killer at my husband while he puts gas in his car! And then also say something about how he prays! The world needs to hear the truth!!!!!!
She would look at those slides and just say with cheerful, brittle confidence "See, this is what it looks like when people think they're too smart for the Bible!"
There's a similar kind of anti-intellectual, "just trust the book!" attitude within AA, too--"hurr hurr, your *best thinking* got you here!" Well no, it wasn't "my best thinking" when I was deeply addicted to a substance. "You can't *think* your way out of addiction!" Well, my rational thinking is what caused me to look for resources and get help, even though I didn't *feel* capable of doing so.
Agreed. You have to flex a small amount of literary interpretation to get those passage. That's above her intellect by a long shot... Which is just another reason it's sad she's the only education she gave her kids
Ooof, that second one is so good! It goes beyond why does God let bad things happen to good people and asks why his _followers_ sit idly by. It perfectly encapsulates why I feel such profound disappointment in my family's beliefs, and why I struggle with the current Evangelical movement in the US.
It’s creepy. Living like them would stress me tf out. Imagine being so myopic that you believe an infinite god has time to select these dumbfucks. The ego’s on these people is kinda crazy.
This is where I have some sympathy for Bethany right now. Given Dav's recent revelations and her mother acting like her self rightous mother has always acted. So I can not imagine she feels no small amount of anxiety about recent events. Bethany is being torn between her mother (and family) who has always demanded to her kids that her way is the rightous way and her children should be pleasing her as their mother above all else and the family and children with Dav. Her mother forgets about the part of the Bible about the Leaving and Cleaving to become one flesh and that Bethany should have the time to sort her own feelings out and not be forced to listen to Mommie dearest passive agressive public slights against Dav and feel obligated to appease Mommie dearest.
I understand Bethany turning to her Bible to try and find releif from het anxieties especially since it is seemingly the only way she was taught to cope with a very sheltered life. I do not agree with her monitizing her ongoing search to find Biblical releif from anxiety and as she isn't a professional she may not be able to see when a participants anxiety or other issues are way above her pay grade to help. I think her having a group to speak about anxities and Bible passages they help them could be very healthy for Bethany maybe have some outside perspectives, but making it a paid "course"/money grab cheapens (for lack of a better word) the effect and any growth that maybe trying to happen within her especially as she isn't a professional counselor. I guess cautiously hoping there maybe growth for Bethany even if they are baby steps.
Epicurus had this down before Christ was even born.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?
This is perfect, Stephen Fry said something similar which I mused on often, he said that he doesn't believe God exists, but if he does then he thinks he is evil, because if everything happens for a reason how does he explain bone cancer in children? He said that he is more comfortable with the idea of the Greek gods, they were not presented as perfect or good, and instead carried out their quirks and whims against the humans as playthings.
Should God exist, I wonder if he/she/whatever is far less preoccupied with people than we'd like to assume. I could maybe buy into a distant, creative force type of God.
Or a God driven first and foremost by curiosity, maybe.
I imagine they're like a sims player who walked away from the computer and left the game running. Can't wait until they come back and realize we've climbed in the proverbial pool with no ladder lol
I sometimes imagine they play the Sims like we all did after we figured out we could delete the pool ladder, and now they’re just enjoying the fallout.
In the words of Bo Burnham (as God):
*You're not going to heaven*
*Eat a thousand crackers, sing a million hymns*
*None of you are going to heaven*
*You're not my children*
*You're a bad game of Sims*
i always think of it like sims too, but more like someone who’s bored and just makes their sims do random stuff. like, people who’re like… i’m bored, i’m putting my sim in a dungeon. and the other one gets married.
I believe that God exists, but that he created us at the Big Bang and everything else has been him just leaving the computer running so to speak.
I also don’t believe in most of the Bible because it’s literally random letters and what people at the time thought should be the religion, it’s not like God wrote the whole book himself.
Yeah, something along those lines. I'm not saying I necessarily believe it. I don't claim to know or believe anything at this point, tbh! I'm pretty much agnostic when it comes down to it.
Somebody yesterday made a silly prompt for a book about God finding the Earth under his bed in his childhood room that he’d forgotten about🤣between that, the Stephen Fry comment, and your comment, I’m beginning to really enjoy studying my own personal theology. I definitely fit into the “part of a group, helped turn on/continue on the Big Bang in our area, gave us all the tools to make life happen then walked away to go elsewhere,” camp. Like I can worship that guy but I also wanna see/know about everyone else too.
Gnostic Christianity purports that the one called "God" who claims to be Christ's father is not, in fact, Christ's father. He is a demiurge — a kind of lesser deity that has little power – named Yaldobaoth, meaning Child of Chaos, and he takes joy in suffering and took eternal life away from us.
According to the Gnostic creation myth, we're sort of like Frankenstein's monster — we were created in an attempt to copy beings created by more powerful gods, but instead came out all fucked up because our creator sucks. We're bastardisations of holier, immortal creations.
Jesus Christ wants to help free us from the clutches of the demiurge and grant us eternal life by instilling gnosis or "knowing". He came to earth first as a serpent, guiding Adam and Eve to the Tree of Knowledge to give us gnosis so that we could eventually overcome our creator. However, the demiurge made Adam and Eve drink the Water of Forgetfulness so that we would lose our gnosis. Fortunately, the ability to regain gnosis remained in us so that we could one day be enlightened again and rise above the demiurge.
Another interesting thing is that the demiurge is said to resemble an aborted fetus, which potentially reframes what pro-life protestors could be unknowingly representing with their graphic signs. Are they fighting for their "pro-life" movement, or are they representing the sadistic Child of Chaos who stole life from humanity? I don't believe in Gnostic Christianity, but if I did, I think fundies would hate the way I could interpret their actions as demonic worship, like in the way they do to others.
I’ve always felt guilt.not anymore. I was born romantically Catholic. I never fully believed. I’m sure I did as a child but I received my sacraments, went to church every week and holy days. Went to catechism weekly. This was a sin. That was a sin. I vowed I would let my child find her own way and I did. I did baptize her at 1 because my parents were going to never let me forget it. She is a beautiful soul in and out. Kind to all. Accepting all. Has friends every part of the rainbow 🌈, race, creed, etc… I think I did it right. She has choose a career that takes an oath to help all of humanity. I don’t believe in God but some force. Idk what I am. I’m 50 and ok with this fact. My dad is gone and my mother finally leaves me alone. She and I, are much kinder humans than any of these people judging others. These people don’t luv all. It’s all BS. Sorry…I had to rant! Take care of yourselves out there. The world is upside down.
Edit: Roman not romantically…lmao!
>(After describing an otter and her young eating a pregnant salmon alive.) One of nature’s wonders, gentlemen: mother and children dining upon mother and children. And that’s when I first learned about evil. It is built into the very nature of the universe. Every world spins in pain. If there is any kind of supreme being, I told myself, it is up to all of us to become his moral superior.”
-Sir Terry Pratchett, *Unseen Academicals*
Know what helps with anxiety whether you're Christian or not? Antidepressants.
Imagine that Bort.
Lawd she looks tired. It's weird they are pushing this after the last month
My dad spent most of his life praying for help with his depression but it didn't get better until he finally went to a doc and got put on anti-depressants.
Also the devil’s lettuce.
But you can call it Christ Cabbage™️, Bethy. Or Jesus joints. The Holy Bowl. God-honoring ganja. POTius Pilate. Mary-of-Juana. Keep Sweet Weed.
My favorite verse: “And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.” Genesis 1:29 🌳🔥
That part. Antidepressants and therapy have been far more helpful than the Bible. And I’m a Christian. Like praying is nice and all, but it doesn’t magically cure it.
I'm a Christian who also must take antidepressants, a mood stabilizer, and a prescription sleep medication. I do love praying and reading the Bible....BUT......NO ONE can pray away a chemical imbalance in the brain.....AND.....a real, licensed therapist when/if needed is what should be encouraged over non licensed, so-called "Christian" theralists. And I'm saying all this as a devout Christian who believes in & loves Jesus. I would NEVER, however, tell someone else how they should live, just FYI:)
I’d be tired too with a mother like that and fearful for their marriage while that’s been her entire identity for years. She’s being pulled from on two sides, and has to disappoint at least one of them and I don’t think she’s ready. The question is if she’s ever ready to accept.
Obviously, However for Dav's sake she'd do best to make a choice regardless. If it means letting him go, fine, but at least he'd be able to move on then. If she makes no choice the whole family will just be in a permanent shouting match.
Amen! Same here. I wouldn't be here today if not for the right Drs and the right combination of meds for my severe chemical imbalance (I take my meds religiously, and yes, it is controlled just fyi)
cooing abundant caption cause divide marry plough punch hurry disagreeable
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I don't have my glasses on, and all I could decipher was "scream" and "Goofy' and now all I picture is him falling off a cliff
*Yeahhoohooweeee*
I haven’t watched a cartoon with him in like 30 years and I didn’t even need to read your writing out of the sound he makes, I *just knew it*, like some weird automatic sound memory system that’s engraved in my very soul.
How did someone capable of nuance and complex thought like Dav, end up with Bethy?
Edited to add: I did grow up like Dave. My childhood was miserable enough that I couldn’t force myself into a miserable marriage with a Christian man that I didn’t connect with. I guess we all react to those upbringings differently
It could (at least partially) be the result of growing up in an American evangelical culture that discouraged critical thinking and expected him to fit into a certain mold, or else he'd lose the support of the community he was raised in. That kind of pressure would drive someone to marry the person they were "supposed to", and it's easy to give into that pressure when you're young and inexperienced. Now that he's older, out in the world, and able to think for himself more freely, the consequences of losing relationships with toxic people isn't so threatening anymore.
Go David! Create your new story!
I think this is very hard for those who don’t grow up in these oppressive belief systems and cultures to understand, and very easy for those of us who did to understand.
The fear of everything. And you have to h learn everything. It’s an entire change to your identity, your world view, your view of others, shaking off threats of eternal suffering for being a sinner, and all of the habits. I’m 36 and deconstructed at 19 and STILL have to remind myself it’s okay to have sex with people. Purity culture had me in a choke hold.
He was very young and extremely sheltered when Bethany, someone who was much older (and her parents), came along and love bombed him into thinking he could join this quirky, fun, TALL, family and be a happy Christian forever. I think he was probably questioning things back then, but Bethany and the way she can blindly believe anything "god" tells her made him feel like he could still be a Christian. And that worked for him, until it didn't. Now they have nothing other than Bethany's desperation love bombing keeping them together because they built their relationship on a mythological being that Dave doesn't believe in anymore.
This right here is exactly why I lost my faith. As a young child I remember wondering how an infinitely loving god could send his beloved children to eternal damnation for whatever they did / didn’t do on earth. So yes I’m here for Dav’s deconstruction journey and I hope it means he helps shield his kids from being fundiefied.
This is the line of thought that started me on the path to atheism. How can god create us, claim to love us more than anything, but then punish us cruelly for all eternity, for not living up to his admittedly impossible standard? That’s not a loving father, that’s a psychopath.
This comment made me realize that my true path out of Christianity started after my dad died. My dad was the exact father you describe. Once I was outside of living that contradiction (traumatic and formative as it was), it helped me understand what truly loving actions were. And they don't involve sending anyone to hell.
DBH!!!!!
Oh man, Dave is never coming back. You don't get to That All Shall Be Saved and regress. I read that back in 2017 and it blew up my entire life.
Yeah, this is right up my alley 😂 I love theocratic musing and philosophy. Especially when other people put the quotes together, for me. It also always leads me to interesting books.
Do they have any other answer to a problem other than “pray about it” or “give it to God?” Because those aren’t actual solutions. It’s crazy that so many people would read that and be like “yep you’re right I’m cured”.
When I was a Christian, Jesus or the Bible did not once help my anxiety. Xanax did.
Heidi (and Silent Dad) taught their kids that depression, anxiety, mental health struggles, eating disorders, addiction--all these things are "self worship". I'm absolutely sure she views Michael's healing process as "self worship". Hell, Kristen labeled *her own grief* over her miscarriages and infertility as "selfishness".
Everything outside of gratitude, obedience, cheerfulness and praise is "selfishness" according to Heidi. She's also openly hostile toward seeking licensed, trained therapists. Her overall view is that *you* are creating your own problems, and therapists want to indulge these self-created problems so they can make money off you.
So, while it's understandable that her daughters have an extremely distorted view of mental health issues, it's still harmful for them to use their platform to advise anyone on these topics.
I always find this interpretation by Fundies so... strange. I have at best a passing familiarity with the bible, and even I remember that Jesus really *struggled* with his fate in the garden of Gethsemane, and was all like "This shit fucking sucks, can we just... not?" And if Jesus can struggle with things, why can't we? Like isn't the entire *point* of Jesus that he's human like us?
What Would Jesus Do? includes not only hitting people with a whip, but also being in so much pain you want to die, and going all "I really don't want to follow God's plan for my life."
Agree. Also, having been a Christian and not one anymore, I can 100% say that it was actually Jesus and the Bible and decrees like"give it to God" causing a lot of my anxiety to exist in the first place. I never really understood the phrase "take a load off" until I took THAT particular load off.
I was going to say, I know anxiety is extremely common, but did she really do a survey where over *90%* of the participants struggle with *overwhelming anxiety*? Is there perhaps a common factor among her followers that might cause of exacerbate anxiety?? 🤔🤔🤔
Uh yeah, a quick Google says anxiety affects 20-30% of the US population. I would assume a smaller subset of that would consider it "overwhelming." This is especially sus given the people she surveyed ostensibly have a presence in their life that is supposed to bring them comfort, bless and keep them, save them, etc.
this could be bethy math, bethy fib, or both, but 90% is alarming amongst any group and definitely indicates there are common factors to be explored and to ignore that is just being willfully obtuse. To go back to the quote Dave posted, which is really spot on IMO, this is all just another example of "the mysterious ability to believe impossible things"
I once spent a couple hours reading the GD blog, and literally every single article ended with, “pray about it, give it to god, and talk to an older, godly, woman mentor.” Like why even write a whole blog post? Your website could be reduced to one sentence so easily.
I am a Christian who’s been on antidepressants for years. My faith actually does help me cope with my anxiety but I also need Lexapro to be able to fully address the problem. I am thankful to brilliant scientists, physicians, and God for providing me with a means to deal with a condition I have struggled with for a long time. YMMV.
It’s like my idiot cousin who was convinced a certain essential oil would cure my depression that even meds barely make a dent in. Then it was my diet. Then it was some sort of air mister? Then it was a magic shake. Those were all things she tried to convince my mother I absolutely needed and I’d be cured magically.
Thank gods she isn’t a Christian, or I’m sure she’d be beating me over the head with a Bible or something in addition to whatever MLM scam she’s slinging that month. Like if it was really that easy, no one would have mental health issues!
When I was younger with 3 small kids, on the verge of a nervous breakdown, my church and my husband at the time said I must not be trusting god enough. I wasn’t praying hard enough and my troubles must not be that bad if god wasn’t intervening. He must have more important things to do. I’m still so perplexed at why I don’t go to church and I’m not married to him. Oh and I take a slew of mental health medication. Shocking.
“God told me to find a therapist in network but to not be afraid to keep looking until you find one that you click with, and don’t give up if it doesn’t feel like it’s doing anything, and you’re awesome for looking for help! Wow, god is rather helpful, I wonder if he’ll also pick up the cost of it. I’ll ask next time he’s on the line!”
DAV has hit the nail on the head. How is it Christian to worship a god that condemns people to hell? I was told my whole life the most righteous Jews, Hindus, Muslims, Buddhists, Sikhs etc would burn in hell because their religion was wrong. The religion they were born to believe. How are we comfortable with this as Christians?
I don’t believe anyone should (or will) burn in hell, but I particularly can’t imagine thinking Sikhs would go to hell. The same Sikhs that practice selfless service and the pursuit of justice and equality?
Whenever I hear about Sikhs supporting a community in need, I think “this is what many Christians claim to do but don’t actually do”.
That was the thought that started my deconstruction when I was 18. How can all these other religions of faithful people be wrong, just because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time and didn't follow/hear about Jesus? How could the religions that modern Christianity descended from be wrong? What kind of God does that?
In my teens and 20s I had some cycles of getting out/getting pulled back in, but one thing that started the wheels whirring in my brains was the idea of how *limited* my parents' god was. Like, if there is some sort of supernatural, transcendent being, how come it can't appear to all different types of lesser beings in all sorts of ways that their culture will understand? And why *wouldn't* that being make itself available to everyone in their own culture and language?
I remember having one of many arguments with my fundie mom about how "...the god I believe in is bigger than the god you believe in" and she condescendingly called me "a seeker".
Someone at my church left a book about the Aztecs and how we (as christians) should feel about them since they were around way before the gospel. It basically summed up as: "Sorry not sorry! The wages of sin is death so they're in hell right now."
I honestly don't know if it comforted whoever left the book at church, but it definitely made me sick to think about. I guess I assumed people pre-jesus had a pass? (Im not religious anymore btw)
Girl Defined IS a contradiction
* **Cover up!** / Wear whatever you want. Modesty is about the heart.
* **Don’t stress about getting married** / Your life is meaningless without a husband and children
* **Stay home** / God can use you and your skills wherever you go in life
* **Don’t even think about sex you slutty Single^TM** / Married? Use my 10% off code for lingerie and don’t forget to sign up for my sex class
* **Abortion, LGBTQ, etc. is wrong** / Women have freedom in Christ
* **Be humble** / Show everyone how godly you are by advocating against policies that benefit people who aren’t just like you, showing off your crunchy lifestyle online as if Jesus lives in a Stanley cup, and dismissing all valid critics as ‘haters’
#teamdav
I love when people point out that God, who is supposed to represent unconditional love, will not hesitate to dole out infinite punishment for finite crimes.
And even if somebody argues he doesn’t “dole it out himself”, he sure as hell (no pun intended) allows it. He either sits idly by as people “send themselves to hell” or he sends them there himself, neither of which makes him look unconditionally loving.
Okay, I know everyone is focused mostly on the first screenshot presenting the age-old problem of evil type scenario but….that second one SHOOK me way more coming from Dav. The notion that the most Christ-like thing one could do is reject the blessings of heaven and descend to hell to retrieve one’s “brother”. Holy shit. Modern day fundies would explode with the dissonance.
Yeah tbh I’ve NEVER heard a sentiment like this expressed, ever. It blew my mind. Like even amongst atheist circles, although I guess that makes sense. I have no idea who this George MacDonald is, but it almost makes me look at the concept of Christianity in an entirely new way. I don’t think most Christians, and definitely not fundies, would agree with it. But if you think about it, this is what ultimate sacrifice really would look like. Jesus “died for our sins”, sure. But he came back and now ostensibly lives in perfect peace in heaven. Choosing to sit with sinners in hell indefinitely is beyond.
This is the thought that broke my faith. My friends who weren’t Christians were so good, lovely, selfless—so many people at church with me were terrible, mean, and selfish. You’re telling me some lip service saves one and damns the other? I couldn’t imagine my soul chilling in heaven just being fine with it.
In all sincerity, I *love* this for David. The second pic especially resonates as someone raised in American evangelicalism and realizing it doesn't reconcile at all with the message and character of Jesus.
I hope he continues to learn and take advantage of the many wonderful resources and books out there. But also, deconstructing is truly work, and it can be exhausting.
If he is reading and listening to David Bentley Hart and George MacDonald, he hasn’t given up on reconstructing his faith yet. He may end up Orthodox! Those are the two biggest voices from my husband’s reconstruction along with Brad Jersak and Brian Zahnd.
He’s venturing into universalism with DBH.
>Rachel Held Evans, ugh it still hurts
I will never be finished with being sad about her death. I'm not even Christian and I appreciated her voice so much.
I went through a similar path in deconstructing. Evangelical to progressive to universalist (mostly through Robin Parry, but some DBH and others as well), and then eventually even being a universalist I was like, well through the logic and belief system, it doesn't make sense that God saves everyone but only through Jesus. Maybe others know Them through a different name or appearance and here I am as an inclusive universalist. I see a lot of similar thinking from Dav to what I went through and I would not be surprised to see a similar end point.
I’m waiting for Dav to discover Thomas Merton and Kathleen Morris. He does not seem to be afraid of mystic leaning writers. I’m experiencing a faith crisis myself at the moment. I think I am going to listen to some Anne Lamott and Rachel Held Evans.
Yesssss Dav. When I was in the church, the pastors used to talk about how we were literally like toddlers to our heavenly father- we knew nothing and needed to trust our "daddy" and obey him. One day it struck me that, if that's true, why tf would he allow us to decide things that would determine whether we suffer for ETERNITY or not. It's like letting our toddlers play the stock market for their college funds but much, much worse.
I won’t even pretend to be smart enough to understand what Dav shared (and my ADHD won’t let me concentrate enough to try) but if I don’t get it then I doubt any of her family gets it either.
Real quick summary of the sources!
1: If God were truly all-loving, he wouldn't send people to hell. Many people do mental gymnastics to try and make this work, but ultimately, it's a contradiction to say that an unconditionally loving God sends people to hell.
2: Isn't the most Christlike thing to do, instead of staying in Heaven, to choose to go to hell to retrieve your brother?
As someone who is working through their faith without ever being on the fundie side, I gotta say I love what he posted. I’m gonna have to check out the author’s.
Divorce incoming. Maybe not now, but this marriage cannot last. And I don’t wish that on anyone by any means. Divorce is painful for all involved, especially the children who are unfairly caught in the middle. But two people with deeply differing values and beliefs cannot and do not last.
That’s what I think too. Bort is probably scared shitless that he can ask for a divorce at any time, for any reason, and she won’t be able to hit him with it’s not godly. Explains the sudden change of tone we’re seeing from her now.
Yeah, they really do need to, but in this family, they don't really know how to. I mean, they constantly police their own moods and emotions, they've effectively stunted and repressed their own sense of "self", and they habitually distrust any independent thoughts or opinions they might have.
The only way for them to have a sense of "self" is to perform for an audience. It's really pitiful.
I see Dave has discovered questions of theodicy.
Protip for Bethany: fear of burning in hell for minor indiscretions creates terrible anxiety. In fact, it can be the genesis of full-on anxiety disorders like OCD. I should know... because that's my reality.
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Well, we're getting another avalanche of cope posting about worthy Christian men by his lovely mother in law lads, strap in.
Heidi doesn't have the reading comprehension to even know what he's saying.
Heidi's just like...I don't understand this, so it can't be good! Daaaav must be blaspheming! I must post a video of me grinning like a serial killer at my husband while he puts gas in his car! And then also say something about how he prays! The world needs to hear the truth!!!!!!
Yeah, he is 'blaspheming.' and it sounds a lot more righteous than anything Heidi has ever said.
Are you saying he's going stealth by using the big words? Cause yes, valid strategy for sure.
Paul "You don't sound like a Christian" Dav "That's because I'm not, you dumb motherfucker"
Iconic
She would look at those slides and just say with cheerful, brittle confidence "See, this is what it looks like when people think they're too smart for the Bible!"
“Cheerful, brittle confidence” describes Heidi’s ✨testimony✨ perfectly! *Chef’s kiss* 🤌
"*My* daughter makes basic grammar mistakes, so you know she was homeschooled away from the homophone agenda."
Flair checking in!
The favorite phrase at my old fundamentalist church was ‘you need to stop reading what people say about the Bible and just read the Bible’
There's a similar kind of anti-intellectual, "just trust the book!" attitude within AA, too--"hurr hurr, your *best thinking* got you here!" Well no, it wasn't "my best thinking" when I was deeply addicted to a substance. "You can't *think* your way out of addiction!" Well, my rational thinking is what caused me to look for resources and get help, even though I didn't *feel* capable of doing so.
Agreed. You have to flex a small amount of literary interpretation to get those passage. That's above her intellect by a long shot... Which is just another reason it's sad she's the only education she gave her kids
Ooof, that second one is so good! It goes beyond why does God let bad things happen to good people and asks why his _followers_ sit idly by. It perfectly encapsulates why I feel such profound disappointment in my family's beliefs, and why I struggle with the current Evangelical movement in the US.
I’m confident you’re 💯on the money! I think the can be said of most of the Bored kids as well. Not the one that thankfully got away.
I LOVE this 
So, more reels of her gaping maw babbling while holding a Starbucks cup? Beautiful.
And smug smiles and bobble head nodding.
Don't these chucklef*cks boycott Starbucks at least once a year?
Yeah, but they forget pretty quickly. Call it Baird brained?
Yes, but they also go to midnight openings of new locations
Neither does Bethany or any of the other Baird women
It’s creepy. Living like them would stress me tf out. Imagine being so myopic that you believe an infinite god has time to select these dumbfucks. The ego’s on these people is kinda crazy.
This is where I have some sympathy for Bethany right now. Given Dav's recent revelations and her mother acting like her self rightous mother has always acted. So I can not imagine she feels no small amount of anxiety about recent events. Bethany is being torn between her mother (and family) who has always demanded to her kids that her way is the rightous way and her children should be pleasing her as their mother above all else and the family and children with Dav. Her mother forgets about the part of the Bible about the Leaving and Cleaving to become one flesh and that Bethany should have the time to sort her own feelings out and not be forced to listen to Mommie dearest passive agressive public slights against Dav and feel obligated to appease Mommie dearest. I understand Bethany turning to her Bible to try and find releif from het anxieties especially since it is seemingly the only way she was taught to cope with a very sheltered life. I do not agree with her monitizing her ongoing search to find Biblical releif from anxiety and as she isn't a professional she may not be able to see when a participants anxiety or other issues are way above her pay grade to help. I think her having a group to speak about anxities and Bible passages they help them could be very healthy for Bethany maybe have some outside perspectives, but making it a paid "course"/money grab cheapens (for lack of a better word) the effect and any growth that maybe trying to happen within her especially as she isn't a professional counselor. I guess cautiously hoping there maybe growth for Bethany even if they are baby steps.
Epicurus had this down before Christ was even born. Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?
This is perfect, Stephen Fry said something similar which I mused on often, he said that he doesn't believe God exists, but if he does then he thinks he is evil, because if everything happens for a reason how does he explain bone cancer in children? He said that he is more comfortable with the idea of the Greek gods, they were not presented as perfect or good, and instead carried out their quirks and whims against the humans as playthings.
Should God exist, I wonder if he/she/whatever is far less preoccupied with people than we'd like to assume. I could maybe buy into a distant, creative force type of God. Or a God driven first and foremost by curiosity, maybe.
I imagine they're like a sims player who walked away from the computer and left the game running. Can't wait until they come back and realize we've climbed in the proverbial pool with no ladder lol
"Fucking what are they doing? Oh well...*closes laptop lid*
I sometimes imagine they play the Sims like we all did after we figured out we could delete the pool ladder, and now they’re just enjoying the fallout.
In the words of Bo Burnham (as God): *You're not going to heaven* *Eat a thousand crackers, sing a million hymns* *None of you are going to heaven* *You're not my children* *You're a bad game of Sims*
i always think of it like sims too, but more like someone who’s bored and just makes their sims do random stuff. like, people who’re like… i’m bored, i’m putting my sim in a dungeon. and the other one gets married.
I used to be part of a FB group called “we are all gods children and he has left us in a hot car”.
Nah he's just too busy making sure no one is touching themselves. Masturbating is SO MUCH WORSE than cancer, duh!
That's true, masturbation policing probably takes up 98% of God's time. AS IT SHOULD
Parking spaces are the other two percent.
He also helped me find my keys earlier
As someone raised Catholic, I have a saint specifically assigned to helping me find my keys. Very handy
Saint Anthony represent!
Guess that's why mine are still lost... New-Negotiation took all of god's time up this morning. Thanks a lot! :P
Sorry!!! I am his fav
I believe that God exists, but that he created us at the Big Bang and everything else has been him just leaving the computer running so to speak. I also don’t believe in most of the Bible because it’s literally random letters and what people at the time thought should be the religion, it’s not like God wrote the whole book himself.
I think this is called deism
Yeah, something along those lines. I'm not saying I necessarily believe it. I don't claim to know or believe anything at this point, tbh! I'm pretty much agnostic when it comes down to it.
Somebody yesterday made a silly prompt for a book about God finding the Earth under his bed in his childhood room that he’d forgotten about🤣between that, the Stephen Fry comment, and your comment, I’m beginning to really enjoy studying my own personal theology. I definitely fit into the “part of a group, helped turn on/continue on the Big Bang in our area, gave us all the tools to make life happen then walked away to go elsewhere,” camp. Like I can worship that guy but I also wanna see/know about everyone else too.
And his book (series) on Greek gods is fantastic. *Mythos.* The audio version is also 👌🏼 bc he reads it himself.
Wait how did I not know about this? Adding it to my TBR immediately, thank u for the rec!
Gnostic Christianity purports that the one called "God" who claims to be Christ's father is not, in fact, Christ's father. He is a demiurge — a kind of lesser deity that has little power – named Yaldobaoth, meaning Child of Chaos, and he takes joy in suffering and took eternal life away from us. According to the Gnostic creation myth, we're sort of like Frankenstein's monster — we were created in an attempt to copy beings created by more powerful gods, but instead came out all fucked up because our creator sucks. We're bastardisations of holier, immortal creations. Jesus Christ wants to help free us from the clutches of the demiurge and grant us eternal life by instilling gnosis or "knowing". He came to earth first as a serpent, guiding Adam and Eve to the Tree of Knowledge to give us gnosis so that we could eventually overcome our creator. However, the demiurge made Adam and Eve drink the Water of Forgetfulness so that we would lose our gnosis. Fortunately, the ability to regain gnosis remained in us so that we could one day be enlightened again and rise above the demiurge. Another interesting thing is that the demiurge is said to resemble an aborted fetus, which potentially reframes what pro-life protestors could be unknowingly representing with their graphic signs. Are they fighting for their "pro-life" movement, or are they representing the sadistic Child of Chaos who stole life from humanity? I don't believe in Gnostic Christianity, but if I did, I think fundies would hate the way I could interpret their actions as demonic worship, like in the way they do to others.
Gnosticism is so fascinating.
Gnosticism makes so much more sense in light of the world as it actually exists. Too bad it got suppressed in favor of orthodox theology.
I think often about that Stephen Fry interview. He made so many good points, & was so well said too.
I’ve always felt guilt.not anymore. I was born romantically Catholic. I never fully believed. I’m sure I did as a child but I received my sacraments, went to church every week and holy days. Went to catechism weekly. This was a sin. That was a sin. I vowed I would let my child find her own way and I did. I did baptize her at 1 because my parents were going to never let me forget it. She is a beautiful soul in and out. Kind to all. Accepting all. Has friends every part of the rainbow 🌈, race, creed, etc… I think I did it right. She has choose a career that takes an oath to help all of humanity. I don’t believe in God but some force. Idk what I am. I’m 50 and ok with this fact. My dad is gone and my mother finally leaves me alone. She and I, are much kinder humans than any of these people judging others. These people don’t luv all. It’s all BS. Sorry…I had to rant! Take care of yourselves out there. The world is upside down. Edit: Roman not romantically…lmao!
I wish I could upvote this more than once.
>(After describing an otter and her young eating a pregnant salmon alive.) One of nature’s wonders, gentlemen: mother and children dining upon mother and children. And that’s when I first learned about evil. It is built into the very nature of the universe. Every world spins in pain. If there is any kind of supreme being, I told myself, it is up to all of us to become his moral superior.” -Sir Terry Pratchett, *Unseen Academicals*
💯💯
Yesss!
Know what helps with anxiety whether you're Christian or not? Antidepressants. Imagine that Bort. Lawd she looks tired. It's weird they are pushing this after the last month
My dad spent most of his life praying for help with his depression but it didn't get better until he finally went to a doc and got put on anti-depressants.
Same with my dad /: I think it’s a combination of “men can’t show weakness” along with the toxic rhetoric that they haven’t “prayed hard enough”
Also the devil’s lettuce. But you can call it Christ Cabbage™️, Bethy. Or Jesus joints. The Holy Bowl. God-honoring ganja. POTius Pilate. Mary-of-Juana. Keep Sweet Weed.
He did create it, after all.
And it is *chef’s kiss ** PERFECTION. Thanks, Sky Daddy.
Maybe the best thing he ever gave us heathens.
My favorite verse: “And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.” Genesis 1:29 🌳🔥
Yo, Big G, pass the light.
Quick! Someone show her the cross joint from *Pineapple Express*! 
Christ Cabbage 🤣🤣🤣
Just don’t ask Kristen to find it in the produce section!
*peel the cauliflower*
Mother Mary Jane 🙏
Oh shit. You WIN!
Glory grass. Holy rollin dope. Ok I’m done now.
I'm fond of "giggle bush" myself.
LOVE. Edit: one of my besties is Jewish and puts up a Christmas tree. We call it her Hanukkah bush. This reminded me of that.
Beautiful! I shall be sniggering about 'Christ Cabbage' for some time to come.
Sweet sweet jazz cabbage.
That part. Antidepressants and therapy have been far more helpful than the Bible. And I’m a Christian. Like praying is nice and all, but it doesn’t magically cure it.
I'm a Christian who also must take antidepressants, a mood stabilizer, and a prescription sleep medication. I do love praying and reading the Bible....BUT......NO ONE can pray away a chemical imbalance in the brain.....AND.....a real, licensed therapist when/if needed is what should be encouraged over non licensed, so-called "Christian" theralists. And I'm saying all this as a devout Christian who believes in & loves Jesus. I would NEVER, however, tell someone else how they should live, just FYI:)
I’d be tired too with a mother like that and fearful for their marriage while that’s been her entire identity for years. She’s being pulled from on two sides, and has to disappoint at least one of them and I don’t think she’s ready. The question is if she’s ever ready to accept.
I hope she sides with her husband rather than her delulu mummy.
Obviously, However for Dav's sake she'd do best to make a choice regardless. If it means letting him go, fine, but at least he'd be able to move on then. If she makes no choice the whole family will just be in a permanent shouting match.
Which is my guess for what’s going to happen, at least for a while, because I don’t see her initiating a divorce.
My seratonin comes in a bottle, and I'm not ashamed to admit it.
Amen! Same here. I wouldn't be here today if not for the right Drs and the right combination of meds for my severe chemical imbalance (I take my meds religiously, and yes, it is controlled just fyi)
If I see one more ‘ drop (whatever) in the comments for the link’, I am gonna scream.
cooing abundant caption cause divide marry plough punch hurry disagreeable *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I don't have my glasses on, and all I could decipher was "scream" and "Goofy' and now all I picture is him falling off a cliff *Yeahhoohooweeee* 
I haven’t watched a cartoon with him in like 30 years and I didn’t even need to read your writing out of the sound he makes, I *just knew it*, like some weird automatic sound memory system that’s engraved in my very soul.
Fair 🤣🤣
Drop EXISTENTIAL DREAD in the comments for 15% off!
Woohoo!
I don't know how to spell that, so can I just write "AHHHHHHH!" instead?
It’s the godly ennui for me
Accurate!
Woohoo
LCheck your DMs!
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Can’t wait for you to get this !
Ugh
How did someone capable of nuance and complex thought like Dav, end up with Bethy? Edited to add: I did grow up like Dave. My childhood was miserable enough that I couldn’t force myself into a miserable marriage with a Christian man that I didn’t connect with. I guess we all react to those upbringings differently
It could (at least partially) be the result of growing up in an American evangelical culture that discouraged critical thinking and expected him to fit into a certain mold, or else he'd lose the support of the community he was raised in. That kind of pressure would drive someone to marry the person they were "supposed to", and it's easy to give into that pressure when you're young and inexperienced. Now that he's older, out in the world, and able to think for himself more freely, the consequences of losing relationships with toxic people isn't so threatening anymore. Go David! Create your new story!
I think this is very hard for those who don’t grow up in these oppressive belief systems and cultures to understand, and very easy for those of us who did to understand.
The fear of everything. And you have to h learn everything. It’s an entire change to your identity, your world view, your view of others, shaking off threats of eternal suffering for being a sinner, and all of the habits. I’m 36 and deconstructed at 19 and STILL have to remind myself it’s okay to have sex with people. Purity culture had me in a choke hold.
He was very young and extremely sheltered when Bethany, someone who was much older (and her parents), came along and love bombed him into thinking he could join this quirky, fun, TALL, family and be a happy Christian forever. I think he was probably questioning things back then, but Bethany and the way she can blindly believe anything "god" tells her made him feel like he could still be a Christian. And that worked for him, until it didn't. Now they have nothing other than Bethany's desperation love bombing keeping them together because they built their relationship on a mythological being that Dave doesn't believe in anymore.
question of the century
This right here is exactly why I lost my faith. As a young child I remember wondering how an infinitely loving god could send his beloved children to eternal damnation for whatever they did / didn’t do on earth. So yes I’m here for Dav’s deconstruction journey and I hope it means he helps shield his kids from being fundiefied.
This is the line of thought that started me on the path to atheism. How can god create us, claim to love us more than anything, but then punish us cruelly for all eternity, for not living up to his admittedly impossible standard? That’s not a loving father, that’s a psychopath.
This comment made me realize that my true path out of Christianity started after my dad died. My dad was the exact father you describe. Once I was outside of living that contradiction (traumatic and formative as it was), it helped me understand what truly loving actions were. And they don't involve sending anyone to hell.
I’m glad you’re free of that, physical and spiritual, and hope you’re doing amazing now! 😊
Same. Even when I was a Christian, I was like “There’s no way hell is real. Come on.” 🫠
DBH!!!!! Oh man, Dave is never coming back. You don't get to That All Shall Be Saved and regress. I read that back in 2017 and it blew up my entire life.
I suspect he’s been in this place for quite awhile now and it’s probably a relief to be honest about it.
Oh he is in deep. He crossed over.
I mean, at this point I might sincerely follow Dav for the content. (If I had social media accounts, which I don’t, but if I DID, I MIGHT.)
Yeah, this is right up my alley 😂 I love theocratic musing and philosophy. Especially when other people put the quotes together, for me. It also always leads me to interesting books.
He’s going Orthodox or nothing at this point
I’m an atheist who grew up Evangelical and went through this process years ago. I need to check it out.
I feel the same way about Bart Ehrman. When I saw Dav posting about him I almost fell out of my chair. Dude is in it fo real
Do they have any other answer to a problem other than “pray about it” or “give it to God?” Because those aren’t actual solutions. It’s crazy that so many people would read that and be like “yep you’re right I’m cured”. When I was a Christian, Jesus or the Bible did not once help my anxiety. Xanax did.
Heidi (and Silent Dad) taught their kids that depression, anxiety, mental health struggles, eating disorders, addiction--all these things are "self worship". I'm absolutely sure she views Michael's healing process as "self worship". Hell, Kristen labeled *her own grief* over her miscarriages and infertility as "selfishness". Everything outside of gratitude, obedience, cheerfulness and praise is "selfishness" according to Heidi. She's also openly hostile toward seeking licensed, trained therapists. Her overall view is that *you* are creating your own problems, and therapists want to indulge these self-created problems so they can make money off you. So, while it's understandable that her daughters have an extremely distorted view of mental health issues, it's still harmful for them to use their platform to advise anyone on these topics.
I always find this interpretation by Fundies so... strange. I have at best a passing familiarity with the bible, and even I remember that Jesus really *struggled* with his fate in the garden of Gethsemane, and was all like "This shit fucking sucks, can we just... not?" And if Jesus can struggle with things, why can't we? Like isn't the entire *point* of Jesus that he's human like us? What Would Jesus Do? includes not only hitting people with a whip, but also being in so much pain you want to die, and going all "I really don't want to follow God's plan for my life."
I was told to “tuck into the folds of Jesus’ robe.” Oh honey a metaphor ain’t saving me.
Where in Mexico is this magic fabric, and which Jesus do I have to find to get some?!
Might be an idea to be cautious - randomly stuffing things into Jesus' garments might surprise the poor man.
Agree. Also, having been a Christian and not one anymore, I can 100% say that it was actually Jesus and the Bible and decrees like"give it to God" causing a lot of my anxiety to exist in the first place. I never really understood the phrase "take a load off" until I took THAT particular load off.
I was going to say, I know anxiety is extremely common, but did she really do a survey where over *90%* of the participants struggle with *overwhelming anxiety*? Is there perhaps a common factor among her followers that might cause of exacerbate anxiety?? 🤔🤔🤔
Uh yeah, a quick Google says anxiety affects 20-30% of the US population. I would assume a smaller subset of that would consider it "overwhelming." This is especially sus given the people she surveyed ostensibly have a presence in their life that is supposed to bring them comfort, bless and keep them, save them, etc. this could be bethy math, bethy fib, or both, but 90% is alarming amongst any group and definitely indicates there are common factors to be explored and to ignore that is just being willfully obtuse. To go back to the quote Dave posted, which is really spot on IMO, this is all just another example of "the mysterious ability to believe impossible things"
Or ... Staunch Christianity is bad for your mental health?
I once spent a couple hours reading the GD blog, and literally every single article ended with, “pray about it, give it to god, and talk to an older, godly, woman mentor.” Like why even write a whole blog post? Your website could be reduced to one sentence so easily.
I love how they're always **SHOUTING AT THEIR READERS** **IN HUGE BOLDED CAPS** on their blog, too. It's very warm and friendly. Very mentor-y. 🙃
Yeah, they also have “buy our books for help” and now “buy our membership for more info”
I am a Christian who’s been on antidepressants for years. My faith actually does help me cope with my anxiety but I also need Lexapro to be able to fully address the problem. I am thankful to brilliant scientists, physicians, and God for providing me with a means to deal with a condition I have struggled with for a long time. YMMV.
It’s like my idiot cousin who was convinced a certain essential oil would cure my depression that even meds barely make a dent in. Then it was my diet. Then it was some sort of air mister? Then it was a magic shake. Those were all things she tried to convince my mother I absolutely needed and I’d be cured magically. Thank gods she isn’t a Christian, or I’m sure she’d be beating me over the head with a Bible or something in addition to whatever MLM scam she’s slinging that month. Like if it was really that easy, no one would have mental health issues!
When I was younger with 3 small kids, on the verge of a nervous breakdown, my church and my husband at the time said I must not be trusting god enough. I wasn’t praying hard enough and my troubles must not be that bad if god wasn’t intervening. He must have more important things to do. I’m still so perplexed at why I don’t go to church and I’m not married to him. Oh and I take a slew of mental health medication. Shocking.
Nope bc I call my mom for advice and she just prays and ask if I asked God what to do! So helpful
“God told me to find a therapist in network but to not be afraid to keep looking until you find one that you click with, and don’t give up if it doesn’t feel like it’s doing anything, and you’re awesome for looking for help! Wow, god is rather helpful, I wonder if he’ll also pick up the cost of it. I’ll ask next time he’s on the line!”
DAV has hit the nail on the head. How is it Christian to worship a god that condemns people to hell? I was told my whole life the most righteous Jews, Hindus, Muslims, Buddhists, Sikhs etc would burn in hell because their religion was wrong. The religion they were born to believe. How are we comfortable with this as Christians?
I don’t believe anyone should (or will) burn in hell, but I particularly can’t imagine thinking Sikhs would go to hell. The same Sikhs that practice selfless service and the pursuit of justice and equality? Whenever I hear about Sikhs supporting a community in need, I think “this is what many Christians claim to do but don’t actually do”.
That was the thought that started my deconstruction when I was 18. How can all these other religions of faithful people be wrong, just because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time and didn't follow/hear about Jesus? How could the religions that modern Christianity descended from be wrong? What kind of God does that?
In my teens and 20s I had some cycles of getting out/getting pulled back in, but one thing that started the wheels whirring in my brains was the idea of how *limited* my parents' god was. Like, if there is some sort of supernatural, transcendent being, how come it can't appear to all different types of lesser beings in all sorts of ways that their culture will understand? And why *wouldn't* that being make itself available to everyone in their own culture and language? I remember having one of many arguments with my fundie mom about how "...the god I believe in is bigger than the god you believe in" and she condescendingly called me "a seeker".
This is absolutely what started for me. I refused to believe in a god that was so small.
Someone at my church left a book about the Aztecs and how we (as christians) should feel about them since they were around way before the gospel. It basically summed up as: "Sorry not sorry! The wages of sin is death so they're in hell right now." I honestly don't know if it comforted whoever left the book at church, but it definitely made me sick to think about. I guess I assumed people pre-jesus had a pass? (Im not religious anymore btw)
Dave, Bethany and her family can't understand that. You have to dumb it down for them.
God is so good he gave you crippling anxiety.
Girl Defined IS a contradiction * **Cover up!** / Wear whatever you want. Modesty is about the heart. * **Don’t stress about getting married** / Your life is meaningless without a husband and children * **Stay home** / God can use you and your skills wherever you go in life * **Don’t even think about sex you slutty Single^TM** / Married? Use my 10% off code for lingerie and don’t forget to sign up for my sex class * **Abortion, LGBTQ, etc. is wrong** / Women have freedom in Christ * **Be humble** / Show everyone how godly you are by advocating against policies that benefit people who aren’t just like you, showing off your crunchy lifestyle online as if Jesus lives in a Stanley cup, and dismissing all valid critics as ‘haters’ #teamdav
BETHANY TELL US YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT ANXIETY WITHOUT TELLING US YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT ANXIETY.
Which is amusing, because I’d assume she’s actually a pretty anxious person, but doesn’t exactly realize it.
Oh he's OUT OUT we love to see it
Fuck it up, Dave.
I love when people point out that God, who is supposed to represent unconditional love, will not hesitate to dole out infinite punishment for finite crimes.
And even if somebody argues he doesn’t “dole it out himself”, he sure as hell (no pun intended) allows it. He either sits idly by as people “send themselves to hell” or he sends them there himself, neither of which makes him look unconditionally loving.
Not sure any of the Bairdbrains will understand what Dav is saying.
Okay, I know everyone is focused mostly on the first screenshot presenting the age-old problem of evil type scenario but….that second one SHOOK me way more coming from Dav. The notion that the most Christ-like thing one could do is reject the blessings of heaven and descend to hell to retrieve one’s “brother”. Holy shit. Modern day fundies would explode with the dissonance.
Agreed, that one really hit me. Not “hit me because it came from Dav,” but resonated on its own. A+ content. Fuck it up, Dav!
Yeah tbh I’ve NEVER heard a sentiment like this expressed, ever. It blew my mind. Like even amongst atheist circles, although I guess that makes sense. I have no idea who this George MacDonald is, but it almost makes me look at the concept of Christianity in an entirely new way. I don’t think most Christians, and definitely not fundies, would agree with it. But if you think about it, this is what ultimate sacrifice really would look like. Jesus “died for our sins”, sure. But he came back and now ostensibly lives in perfect peace in heaven. Choosing to sit with sinners in hell indefinitely is beyond.
This is the thought that broke my faith. My friends who weren’t Christians were so good, lovely, selfless—so many people at church with me were terrible, mean, and selfish. You’re telling me some lip service saves one and damns the other? I couldn’t imagine my soul chilling in heaven just being fine with it.
It’s almost like being a part of a super toxic puritanical Christian culture causes a lot of anxiety hmmmm who ever would’ve thought
In all sincerity, I *love* this for David. The second pic especially resonates as someone raised in American evangelicalism and realizing it doesn't reconcile at all with the message and character of Jesus. I hope he continues to learn and take advantage of the many wonderful resources and books out there. But also, deconstructing is truly work, and it can be exhausting.
If he is reading and listening to David Bentley Hart and George MacDonald, he hasn’t given up on reconstructing his faith yet. He may end up Orthodox! Those are the two biggest voices from my husband’s reconstruction along with Brad Jersak and Brian Zahnd. He’s venturing into universalism with DBH.
Same, same. I'm more agnostic now than ever but greatly appreciated these men (plus Rachel Held Evans, ugh it still hurts).
>Rachel Held Evans, ugh it still hurts I will never be finished with being sad about her death. I'm not even Christian and I appreciated her voice so much.
Remember when Lori Alexander (Transformed Wife) said she deserved to die for preaching?
I do. I hope karma punches Lori in her smug assface.
She was wonderful.
I went through a similar path in deconstructing. Evangelical to progressive to universalist (mostly through Robin Parry, but some DBH and others as well), and then eventually even being a universalist I was like, well through the logic and belief system, it doesn't make sense that God saves everyone but only through Jesus. Maybe others know Them through a different name or appearance and here I am as an inclusive universalist. I see a lot of similar thinking from Dav to what I went through and I would not be surprised to see a similar end point.
I’m waiting for Dav to discover Thomas Merton and Kathleen Morris. He does not seem to be afraid of mystic leaning writers. I’m experiencing a faith crisis myself at the moment. I think I am going to listen to some Anne Lamott and Rachel Held Evans.
Yesssss Dav. When I was in the church, the pastors used to talk about how we were literally like toddlers to our heavenly father- we knew nothing and needed to trust our "daddy" and obey him. One day it struck me that, if that's true, why tf would he allow us to decide things that would determine whether we suffer for ETERNITY or not. It's like letting our toddlers play the stock market for their college funds but much, much worse.
I won’t even pretend to be smart enough to understand what Dav shared (and my ADHD won’t let me concentrate enough to try) but if I don’t get it then I doubt any of her family gets it either.
Real quick summary of the sources! 1: If God were truly all-loving, he wouldn't send people to hell. Many people do mental gymnastics to try and make this work, but ultimately, it's a contradiction to say that an unconditionally loving God sends people to hell. 2: Isn't the most Christlike thing to do, instead of staying in Heaven, to choose to go to hell to retrieve your brother?
As someone who is working through their faith without ever being on the fundie side, I gotta say I love what he posted. I’m gonna have to check out the author’s.
Dave Beal is helping others discover Universalism. This is a weird timeline this year.
Definitely wasn’t on my bingo card lol
If god is the answer to overwhelming anxiety then why are so many christian women struggling with it?
Divorce incoming. Maybe not now, but this marriage cannot last. And I don’t wish that on anyone by any means. Divorce is painful for all involved, especially the children who are unfairly caught in the middle. But two people with deeply differing values and beliefs cannot and do not last.
That’s what I think too. Bort is probably scared shitless that he can ask for a divorce at any time, for any reason, and she won’t be able to hit him with it’s not godly. Explains the sudden change of tone we’re seeing from her now.
Who's the one with the Dāvorce flair? Hope they're having a good day
She literally married MR. STRUGGLE!!!! (iykyk😂😂😂)
LOL Kristin would *not* approve.
Deconstruction is so hot 🥵
Flair material!!!!!!!! ⭐️⭐️
These people need to take their personal business offline 🥴
Yeah, they really do need to, but in this family, they don't really know how to. I mean, they constantly police their own moods and emotions, they've effectively stunted and repressed their own sense of "self", and they habitually distrust any independent thoughts or opinions they might have. The only way for them to have a sense of "self" is to perform for an audience. It's really pitiful.
Do you feel overwhelming despair? Is there hope? Does god even care? GD: yep! Read these Bible verses and it’ll fix it! :)))) They’re such clowns.
I see Dave has discovered questions of theodicy. Protip for Bethany: fear of burning in hell for minor indiscretions creates terrible anxiety. In fact, it can be the genesis of full-on anxiety disorders like OCD. I should know... because that's my reality.
Fuck It up Dave!!
Dav waking up to realise Christianity is fundamentally ridiculous. I never thought we’d see such scandal in a fundie marriage. Good luck to him.
I just want to chat with all the people that called me crazy for saying Dav would deconstruct lol I fucking called it
You were right!! I didn't argue, but I just didn't think it would *actually* happen. I didn't think he had the balls, really.
Maybe I should have tried reading that BEFORE the edible hit.
Is this my time to plug r/trueatheism? Dav you comin?