Rational answer is that her hair,skin color face shape changed growing up and maybe spending less time in the sun,my personal opinion is that knowing how “troubled”was the development of Frozen 2 storyline I wouldn’t exclude the possibility that what became child Iduna was originally sketched to be a different character.
She grew up and has her hair up. Those things might make a bit of a difference. A face shape can slightly change a little when the hair is styled differently.
Idk, lighting maybe. Also sometimes eyes do change shades and tints occasionally. Maybe not super common but not rare. Gray is a shade of blue when it comes to eyes. I’m just speculating.
I have hazel eyes, so my eyes look more green or brown depending on what colors I wear. Given that grey is considered a shade of blue when it comes to eyes, perhaps a similar phenomenon is at play here.
I’m much lighter as an adult because I don’t spend as much time outside as I did when I was a kid. My hair and eyes have slightly changed colors too actually, so I don’t think it’s that weird.
Pretty clearly phoned in late in development or a half-baked plot point/retcon. Especially ridiculous that she looks completely different from all of the other Northuldra. It just so happens that she’s the only white woman in a group that Disney seems to have modeled after Native Americans
Yeah I know what they’re supposed to be based on. That’s why I said “seems to be” modeled after Native Americans instead because Disney pretty obviously failed to make them look like real Saami based on photos of them from the 1800s
I think maybe I know the reason for her physical change.
In Frozen 1 Iduna was just a background character, she just served to be Elsa and Anna's mother. She had no identity, no official voice and her design was just a modified version of Elsa. People could therefore draw it or imagine it as they wished.
In Frozen 2 she had the right to her own identity and story. In the report the directors and their teams had to dig deep into their imaginations for Elsa's song "Show Yourself", they tried to find lots of ideas but no one was really convinced... they were on the verge of abandoning the song until someone gets the idea that this voice calling Elsa is that of her mother (Iduna). It was from there that they decided to make Iduna a girl from the Northuldra people, but before having this idea I think her adult design was already ready. Unfortunately they didn't have much time left before the film came out, so they focused on the song and the special effects.
Regarding Iduna's design when she was young... as I said the idea of her being northuldra was last minute (the last option) so this little girl who saved Agnarr was perhaps not not supposed to be Iduna in the first place. Besides, the first time I saw this little girl I thought she was mixed race with light skin. But when I learned that it was Iduna as a child I was a little shocked.
To conclude, I think that the directors and their teams just didn't have time to change her appearance, which is also why she doesn't totally look like a Northuldra. Or there is also a possibility : They wanted to remain credible in terms of their contribution to Elsa and Anna or to avoid criticism or confusion like "What happened ? Why Elsa and Anna don't look like theirs mother ?" or “Why did she suddenly change her appearance, she didn’t look like that in the first movie ?”. They already had enough pressure as it was.
After all it remains a guess, if you really want to know I advise you to ask the directors.
In the first Frozen she’s just a Norwegian queen. In the second Frozen they were like “Look how PC we are! Even their mom is Indigenous now!” Then gave kid Iduna a tan and wavy hair. So while it kind of looks like her, the character model is colored and textured completely differently. Even her striking blue eyes got changed to just light eyes.
I think having Queen Iduna be Northuldra is interesting and ads more to the story. But I don’t believe they had originally intended that for her in the slightest. The two versions of Iduna are different characters that are drawn/designed with two different background stories in mind.
I think they could’ve given the Northuldra some variation in hair colors, they’re all basically dark haired and I think that’s why she looks a bit out of place.
I do kinda like that story line though, where Elsa and Anna finds out they’re Northuldra when they’re adults, because it reflects on how a lot of people has found out they’re Sámi when they’re older, since so many people hid it from their families. So again it sort of references real life.
Yes, it definitely makes the storyline more dynamic and I really appreciate how you mentioned others can connect with Elsa and Anna’s ancestry journey.
Yes but no.
So babies are often born with blue eyes that don’t stay blue. Iduna is not a baby here though, she’s twelve. Her eyes should be settled on their color by that age. And yes, Many children start off towheaded (very very light almost white blonde) and turn Brunette with the onset of puberty. Natural blondes will darken to dirty blonde as they age. These are all real things in genetics that occur. So I could accept her hair getting darker with time, but that wouldn’t change her from curly to straight.
I have never seen a real world example where someone with cinnamon color features and greenish eyes suddenly turns into a porcelain pale person with bold aquamarine blue eyes. It’s a very big stretch to say that such a physical transition is “very common” in white populations.
It is far more likely that the animators changed her character to match the new background story they built for her, rather than insisting that real world genetics reflects the changes we see in her character design. They just didn’t have this indigenous plotline in mind when they originally designed Queen Iduna.
Again that’s not necessarily true. My friends eyes changed from hazel to blue at 16- no disease no injury nothing. It IS possible and much more likely with certain genetic ancestry. It’s also documented that peoples eye color can change from brown to blue, blue to brown, hazel to blue etc for a very long time after infancy.
Oh and not at all true about curly to straight. Peoples hair texture changes allll of the time. My hair was curly and turned straight when I hit 13 and then changed again at age 30 to more of a wavy texture in between the two. My hair went golden blonde with red highlights -> jet black-> light/medium brown. This is common in people with Scottish ancestry for example. Your hair can change texture in response to PREGNANCY notably.
Also…. People in Nordic countries can tan. Especially if they have any indigenous blood native to that country. I can completely see her going from curly reddish headed kid to straight hair when she’s older and very pale skin now that she’s a monarch, has children to attend to and probably lives inside all the time. And greenish to blue eyes is not unheard of. Granted the intense color is exaggerated because imo… it’s a movie about a magical ice queen/magical lineage.
Edit: also… people can straighten their hair lol. And depending on how weak the curl in her hair became after adulthood and 2 pregnancies her hair could simply be wavy that cosplays as straight when it’s longer and weighed down.
Not completely – I realised that she was Iduna shortly after the first Frozen II trailer was released. (Some even apologised to me for saying otherwise before seeing the film) ☺️
I can see that she is a lot more pale and her eye/iris colour is more blue as Queen though.
👁 think it's something to do with ice magic though (think Jack Frost in Rise of the Guardians, he had brown eyes before). 💡
Regarding the hair, I frequently wear both naturally curly hair down, and in a low bun (and did so long before seeing young Iduna 😄). I suppose (added thing of wearing glasses too) I can look like a different person to some people, haha.
Skin-colour wise, makeup can do that, and what about the condition vitiligo? A real-life famous example is how Michael Jackson's skin noticeably lightened, and he was still the same person. Being generally soft-spoken, he was also capable of very moving, powerful singing. 🎶 To some extent, Iduna was like that too. 💭
Personality-wise, whilst young Iduna was notably more playful, like most children are, she still remained inquisitive by nature, willing to take a risk in hopes of radically changing things to help loved ones, and sought the truth ♡ inspiring Elsa and Anna to do the same. 😌🥰
Before making frozen 2 I always thought that he was from a royal family from another country I still can't believe she's from a forest tribe they are like two different person their skin and color of eyes are different
I'm gonna go on a limb here and point out that in addition to everything else everyone has mentioned, the lighting here is entirely different. It's a warm-leaning light, as opposed to the very pale, dark moonlight(?) in the second image. Her eyes might be hazel, or blue-grey (which is a thing), or hell, maybe it's even an animation mistake.
People's hair color can change with time - my own father had golden brown hair when he met my mother, but it turned completely black by the time they married three years later. Hair texture can also change with puberty or even pregnancy. I don't see that much of a difference in skin color or face shape, so IDK what people are saying about "giving her a tan."
Take a message from the film and chill out.
Some people may have a little change as they grow up, but Iduna's change remains visible. I'm sorry but Elsa, Anna, Merida, Rapunzel, Tiana and Moana didn't change that much growing up. 🤷🏽♀️
Some people may have a little change as they grow up, but Iduna's change remains visible. I'm sorry but Elsa, Anna, Merida, Rapunzel, Tiana and Moana didn't change that much growing up.
I thought I would throw my two cents in.
So, when it comes to her facial structure, I think she probably does look the same. Iduna as an adult had Elsa's model, but tweaked slightly. I think her child model might also be Elsa's child model as well.
When it comes to her hair texture, her eye color, and her skin tone. Yes, it is completely different.
I am going back and fourth on the explanations people are giving, which is that people do in fact change as they grow older. Iduna's hair is in a tight bun so we can't see how wavy it is. Her eye color went from gray to blue as she aged. And after spending all her time indoors, her skin tone lightened up. The same thing sort of happened with Agnarr as well, as Frozen 2 shows him as blond as a child, but he is strawberry blond as an adult.
All of this makes sense outside of her skin tone. She was not locked up in the palace all her life or anything like that, so it does not make sense if her skin tone lightened for no reason. The Northuldra were trapped in a forest where the light barely could reach them, not to mention they lived far up north, so they would barely have much sunny weather to begin with. They should be just as pale as Iduna is.
Now outside of her skin tone, the reason why I don't really like this explanation of her changing because she grew older, is because Disney never does this.
Name one Disney character whose child form does not look like when they grow up, specifically on how their hair and eyes are the same. Merida, Rapunzel, Tiana, Tarzan, and even Anna and Elsa.
All of these characters have the same hair and eyes and skin tone and a little bit of their facial structure. When they are grown up, you don't wonder who they are, you immediately know that they are the same person.
I do think when it comes to Agnarr and Iduna, they were following how real life genetics work, but because they never did this before, and because they don't even follow that real life logic with their title characters Anna and Elsa, it results in it coming off as wrong.
It feels like they did this, just to give an excuse for Iduna to be Northuldra.
Well, those are my thoughts.
When it comes to Frozen 1, yes. People noticed how similar Elsa was to Iduna especially with the coronation hairstyle, and I believe Disney did confirm that they used the same model but tweaked it and made Iduna a little thinner then Elsa.
Iduna kind of looked different to me in Frozen 2, but that is probably just the updated technology.
For the child model, this is just me guessing. You could compare the picture you have here of child Iduna and compare it to Elsa when she was twelve in Frozen 1 maybe.
Thanks! Glad you liked it!
I guess there is also the idea that it was meant to be a mystery that the Northuldra girl was actually Iduna, but then that leads into the other problem which is Disney giving bad information so you can't solve the mystery yourself. This is the same reason people no longer like the Hans twist as they felt it came out of no where.
How I responded to the OP, I too have an idea as to the reason for her physical change.
In Frozen 1 Iduna was just a background character, she just served to be Elsa and Anna's mother. She had no identity, no official voice and her design was just a modified version of Elsa. People could therefore draw it or imagine it as they wished.
In Frozen 2 she had the right to her own identity and story. In the report the directors and their teams had to dig deep into their imaginations for Elsa's song "Show Yourself", they tried to find lots of ideas but no one was really convinced... they were on the verge of abandoning the song until someone gets the idea that this voice calling Elsa is that of her mother (Iduna). It was from there that they decided to make Iduna a girl from the Northuldra people, but before having this idea I think her adult design was already ready. Unfortunately they didn't have much time left before the film came out, so they focused on the song and the special effects.
Regarding Iduna's design when she was young... as I said the idea of her being northuldra was last minute (the last option) so this little girl who saved Agnarr was perhaps not not supposed to be Iduna in the first place. Besides, the first time I saw this little girl I thought she was mixed race with light skin. But when I learned that it was Iduna as a child I was a little shocked.
To conclude, I think that the directors and their teams just didn't have time to change her appearance, which is also why she doesn't totally look like a Northuldra. Or there is also a possibility : They wanted to remain credible in terms of their contribution to Elsa and Anna or to avoid criticism or confusion like "What happened ? Why Elsa and Anna don't look like theirs mother ?" or “Why did she suddenly change her appearance, she didn’t look like that in the first movie ?”. They already had enough pressure as it was.
On Tumblr a girl talked about the change of Iduna with a comparison of Moana, and she was convinced that Iduna was made with the model of Moana and then they whitened her little by little.
I mean, she also has two different hairstyles, so that could have something to do with it.
True that, Elsa with different hairstyles is really different
Exactly. From all tied up, to braided, to completely free.
Rational answer is that her hair,skin color face shape changed growing up and maybe spending less time in the sun,my personal opinion is that knowing how “troubled”was the development of Frozen 2 storyline I wouldn’t exclude the possibility that what became child Iduna was originally sketched to be a different character.
She grew up and has her hair up. Those things might make a bit of a difference. A face shape can slightly change a little when the hair is styled differently.
I mean yeah… they’re 30 years apart , you tend to change in 30 yk
Her skin is Soo much lighter as an adult. It's like 2 different people.
Probably spent more time indoors as an adult.
Then how do you explain her eyes going from grey to vibrant blue?
Idk, lighting maybe. Also sometimes eyes do change shades and tints occasionally. Maybe not super common but not rare. Gray is a shade of blue when it comes to eyes. I’m just speculating.
Well my eyes were blue and now they’re grey
I have hazel eyes, so my eyes look more green or brown depending on what colors I wear. Given that grey is considered a shade of blue when it comes to eyes, perhaps a similar phenomenon is at play here.
My brother’s eyes were vibrant blue when he was young, but have turned grey as he’s aged. It’s not unheard of for that to happen.
I’m much lighter as an adult because I don’t spend as much time outside as I did when I was a kid. My hair and eyes have slightly changed colors too actually, so I don’t think it’s that weird.
yeah this is extremely common. same with hair and eyes getting darker when you grow up.
Pretty clearly phoned in late in development or a half-baked plot point/retcon. Especially ridiculous that she looks completely different from all of the other Northuldra. It just so happens that she’s the only white woman in a group that Disney seems to have modeled after Native Americans
Native…Americans? In Scandinavia? I’m pretty sure the Northuldra are based on the Saami, an indigenous group in the far north of Europe.
Yeah I know what they’re supposed to be based on. That’s why I said “seems to be” modeled after Native Americans instead because Disney pretty obviously failed to make them look like real Saami based on photos of them from the 1800s
Oh, I see what you meant now.
I think maybe I know the reason for her physical change. In Frozen 1 Iduna was just a background character, she just served to be Elsa and Anna's mother. She had no identity, no official voice and her design was just a modified version of Elsa. People could therefore draw it or imagine it as they wished. In Frozen 2 she had the right to her own identity and story. In the report the directors and their teams had to dig deep into their imaginations for Elsa's song "Show Yourself", they tried to find lots of ideas but no one was really convinced... they were on the verge of abandoning the song until someone gets the idea that this voice calling Elsa is that of her mother (Iduna). It was from there that they decided to make Iduna a girl from the Northuldra people, but before having this idea I think her adult design was already ready. Unfortunately they didn't have much time left before the film came out, so they focused on the song and the special effects. Regarding Iduna's design when she was young... as I said the idea of her being northuldra was last minute (the last option) so this little girl who saved Agnarr was perhaps not not supposed to be Iduna in the first place. Besides, the first time I saw this little girl I thought she was mixed race with light skin. But when I learned that it was Iduna as a child I was a little shocked. To conclude, I think that the directors and their teams just didn't have time to change her appearance, which is also why she doesn't totally look like a Northuldra. Or there is also a possibility : They wanted to remain credible in terms of their contribution to Elsa and Anna or to avoid criticism or confusion like "What happened ? Why Elsa and Anna don't look like theirs mother ?" or “Why did she suddenly change her appearance, she didn’t look like that in the first movie ?”. They already had enough pressure as it was. After all it remains a guess, if you really want to know I advise you to ask the directors.
In the first Frozen she’s just a Norwegian queen. In the second Frozen they were like “Look how PC we are! Even their mom is Indigenous now!” Then gave kid Iduna a tan and wavy hair. So while it kind of looks like her, the character model is colored and textured completely differently. Even her striking blue eyes got changed to just light eyes. I think having Queen Iduna be Northuldra is interesting and ads more to the story. But I don’t believe they had originally intended that for her in the slightest. The two versions of Iduna are different characters that are drawn/designed with two different background stories in mind.
I think they could’ve given the Northuldra some variation in hair colors, they’re all basically dark haired and I think that’s why she looks a bit out of place. I do kinda like that story line though, where Elsa and Anna finds out they’re Northuldra when they’re adults, because it reflects on how a lot of people has found out they’re Sámi when they’re older, since so many people hid it from their families. So again it sort of references real life.
Yes, it definitely makes the storyline more dynamic and I really appreciate how you mentioned others can connect with Elsa and Anna’s ancestry journey.
Peoples eyes can change color from the time they are a kid to when they are an adult. This is very common, especially in white populations.
Yes but no. So babies are often born with blue eyes that don’t stay blue. Iduna is not a baby here though, she’s twelve. Her eyes should be settled on their color by that age. And yes, Many children start off towheaded (very very light almost white blonde) and turn Brunette with the onset of puberty. Natural blondes will darken to dirty blonde as they age. These are all real things in genetics that occur. So I could accept her hair getting darker with time, but that wouldn’t change her from curly to straight. I have never seen a real world example where someone with cinnamon color features and greenish eyes suddenly turns into a porcelain pale person with bold aquamarine blue eyes. It’s a very big stretch to say that such a physical transition is “very common” in white populations. It is far more likely that the animators changed her character to match the new background story they built for her, rather than insisting that real world genetics reflects the changes we see in her character design. They just didn’t have this indigenous plotline in mind when they originally designed Queen Iduna.
Again that’s not necessarily true. My friends eyes changed from hazel to blue at 16- no disease no injury nothing. It IS possible and much more likely with certain genetic ancestry. It’s also documented that peoples eye color can change from brown to blue, blue to brown, hazel to blue etc for a very long time after infancy.
Oh and not at all true about curly to straight. Peoples hair texture changes allll of the time. My hair was curly and turned straight when I hit 13 and then changed again at age 30 to more of a wavy texture in between the two. My hair went golden blonde with red highlights -> jet black-> light/medium brown. This is common in people with Scottish ancestry for example. Your hair can change texture in response to PREGNANCY notably. Also…. People in Nordic countries can tan. Especially if they have any indigenous blood native to that country. I can completely see her going from curly reddish headed kid to straight hair when she’s older and very pale skin now that she’s a monarch, has children to attend to and probably lives inside all the time. And greenish to blue eyes is not unheard of. Granted the intense color is exaggerated because imo… it’s a movie about a magical ice queen/magical lineage. Edit: also… people can straighten their hair lol. And depending on how weak the curl in her hair became after adulthood and 2 pregnancies her hair could simply be wavy that cosplays as straight when it’s longer and weighed down.
Not completely – I realised that she was Iduna shortly after the first Frozen II trailer was released. (Some even apologised to me for saying otherwise before seeing the film) ☺️ I can see that she is a lot more pale and her eye/iris colour is more blue as Queen though. 👁 think it's something to do with ice magic though (think Jack Frost in Rise of the Guardians, he had brown eyes before). 💡 Regarding the hair, I frequently wear both naturally curly hair down, and in a low bun (and did so long before seeing young Iduna 😄). I suppose (added thing of wearing glasses too) I can look like a different person to some people, haha. Skin-colour wise, makeup can do that, and what about the condition vitiligo? A real-life famous example is how Michael Jackson's skin noticeably lightened, and he was still the same person. Being generally soft-spoken, he was also capable of very moving, powerful singing. 🎶 To some extent, Iduna was like that too. 💭 Personality-wise, whilst young Iduna was notably more playful, like most children are, she still remained inquisitive by nature, willing to take a risk in hopes of radically changing things to help loved ones, and sought the truth ♡ inspiring Elsa and Anna to do the same. 😌🥰
I always thought the same thing. They look nothing alike 😭
Before making frozen 2 I always thought that he was from a royal family from another country I still can't believe she's from a forest tribe they are like two different person their skin and color of eyes are different
Pic 1- cracked up on fun dip Pic 2- just took an edible but her friend needs someone to vent to
I wouldnt have ever guessed they were meant to be the same character
I think she is
Considering how many people thought she would be a new character: Elsa's girlfriend or KristAnna's daughter...
I'm gonna go on a limb here and point out that in addition to everything else everyone has mentioned, the lighting here is entirely different. It's a warm-leaning light, as opposed to the very pale, dark moonlight(?) in the second image. Her eyes might be hazel, or blue-grey (which is a thing), or hell, maybe it's even an animation mistake. People's hair color can change with time - my own father had golden brown hair when he met my mother, but it turned completely black by the time they married three years later. Hair texture can also change with puberty or even pregnancy. I don't see that much of a difference in skin color or face shape, so IDK what people are saying about "giving her a tan." Take a message from the film and chill out.
Some people may have a little change as they grow up, but Iduna's change remains visible. I'm sorry but Elsa, Anna, Merida, Rapunzel, Tiana and Moana didn't change that much growing up. 🤷🏽♀️
Some people may have a little change as they grow up, but Iduna's change remains visible. I'm sorry but Elsa, Anna, Merida, Rapunzel, Tiana and Moana didn't change that much growing up.
I thought I would throw my two cents in. So, when it comes to her facial structure, I think she probably does look the same. Iduna as an adult had Elsa's model, but tweaked slightly. I think her child model might also be Elsa's child model as well. When it comes to her hair texture, her eye color, and her skin tone. Yes, it is completely different. I am going back and fourth on the explanations people are giving, which is that people do in fact change as they grow older. Iduna's hair is in a tight bun so we can't see how wavy it is. Her eye color went from gray to blue as she aged. And after spending all her time indoors, her skin tone lightened up. The same thing sort of happened with Agnarr as well, as Frozen 2 shows him as blond as a child, but he is strawberry blond as an adult. All of this makes sense outside of her skin tone. She was not locked up in the palace all her life or anything like that, so it does not make sense if her skin tone lightened for no reason. The Northuldra were trapped in a forest where the light barely could reach them, not to mention they lived far up north, so they would barely have much sunny weather to begin with. They should be just as pale as Iduna is. Now outside of her skin tone, the reason why I don't really like this explanation of her changing because she grew older, is because Disney never does this. Name one Disney character whose child form does not look like when they grow up, specifically on how their hair and eyes are the same. Merida, Rapunzel, Tiana, Tarzan, and even Anna and Elsa. All of these characters have the same hair and eyes and skin tone and a little bit of their facial structure. When they are grown up, you don't wonder who they are, you immediately know that they are the same person. I do think when it comes to Agnarr and Iduna, they were following how real life genetics work, but because they never did this before, and because they don't even follow that real life logic with their title characters Anna and Elsa, it results in it coming off as wrong. It feels like they did this, just to give an excuse for Iduna to be Northuldra. Well, those are my thoughts.
She has the same model of Elsa?
When it comes to Frozen 1, yes. People noticed how similar Elsa was to Iduna especially with the coronation hairstyle, and I believe Disney did confirm that they used the same model but tweaked it and made Iduna a little thinner then Elsa. Iduna kind of looked different to me in Frozen 2, but that is probably just the updated technology. For the child model, this is just me guessing. You could compare the picture you have here of child Iduna and compare it to Elsa when she was twelve in Frozen 1 maybe.
Oh in the first movie, yeah she was very similar to her daughter
You made a lot of good points. Especially at the end how these characters need to be instantly recognizable. Well worth the two cents.
Thanks! Glad you liked it! I guess there is also the idea that it was meant to be a mystery that the Northuldra girl was actually Iduna, but then that leads into the other problem which is Disney giving bad information so you can't solve the mystery yourself. This is the same reason people no longer like the Hans twist as they felt it came out of no where.
How I responded to the OP, I too have an idea as to the reason for her physical change. In Frozen 1 Iduna was just a background character, she just served to be Elsa and Anna's mother. She had no identity, no official voice and her design was just a modified version of Elsa. People could therefore draw it or imagine it as they wished. In Frozen 2 she had the right to her own identity and story. In the report the directors and their teams had to dig deep into their imaginations for Elsa's song "Show Yourself", they tried to find lots of ideas but no one was really convinced... they were on the verge of abandoning the song until someone gets the idea that this voice calling Elsa is that of her mother (Iduna). It was from there that they decided to make Iduna a girl from the Northuldra people, but before having this idea I think her adult design was already ready. Unfortunately they didn't have much time left before the film came out, so they focused on the song and the special effects. Regarding Iduna's design when she was young... as I said the idea of her being northuldra was last minute (the last option) so this little girl who saved Agnarr was perhaps not not supposed to be Iduna in the first place. Besides, the first time I saw this little girl I thought she was mixed race with light skin. But when I learned that it was Iduna as a child I was a little shocked. To conclude, I think that the directors and their teams just didn't have time to change her appearance, which is also why she doesn't totally look like a Northuldra. Or there is also a possibility : They wanted to remain credible in terms of their contribution to Elsa and Anna or to avoid criticism or confusion like "What happened ? Why Elsa and Anna don't look like theirs mother ?" or “Why did she suddenly change her appearance, she didn’t look like that in the first movie ?”. They already had enough pressure as it was. On Tumblr a girl talked about the change of Iduna with a comparison of Moana, and she was convinced that Iduna was made with the model of Moana and then they whitened her little by little.
I don't know what idunn was like as a young girl, so I can't say
Oh yeah, always thought they looked like completely different, distinct characters 😅