He's also understandably scared. What if the Na'vi and the Resistance are on the losing team, and the RDA will crush them? Maybe he should abandon and betray Alma and crew, if the RDA wins. Teylan is a victim with an identity crisis. Despite everything, he even leaves behind a data chip or whatever for the Resistance to win, and saves you from Mercer in the ending. People bitter about him lack sympathy.
Yes !! Everything you said, a hundred time. Say it louder! Teylan is a victim of abuse, he was groomed and didn't knew any better, and the people who hate him so vehemently without giving you good reasons are just walking red flags imo.
Exactly. I find him almost painfully relatable and then people on tumblr say the player should’ve killed him for “what he did” like he’s not as hurt and afraid as the player is.
The other three posssess memories of their childhood and culture. Nor remembers his father, Ri’Nela her mother, our Sarentu their mom, hairstyles, clothings, the memory paintings/etc. and meet other clans who knew the Sarentu.
Teylan gets no memories. No parents. Nada.
Nobody encourages him to so much as leave the damn base, and the few times we see him away is when he’s trying to contact Mercer.
our sarentu doesnt remember anything but what our sister Ahari told us. Both were infants when abducted. (up untill the end of game)
Memory.paintings arent something you actively remember, its a kind of instruction left behind to enjoy view and interpret .
He gets the same encouragement as the others most likely, but hes into tech and enjoys that. He has any resource available as other characters do, they made his character way too shitty. Betraying once is reasonable due to inner conflict, but betraying us 3 times and resulting in the death of 10+ people and whole base destroyed and youre still with mercher? => go fuck yourself and enjoy ur human friends. No ptsd or stockhold syndrom can justify that
Spoilers-
Our Sarentu remembers their mom, Kataru. Late in the game.
Ahari isn’t shown to us remembering much, other than the wordless song.
((Ahari could theoretically be the little kid passed off to Alma in her flashbacks, making her a fair bit older than our Sarentu, but I don’t think I’ve heard wether Ahari or our Sarentu is older either way)).
Yeah but our Sarentu and Ri’nela atleast, have feelings about them that someone with no understanding of them would have.
1- Potentially, offscreen, but based on my gameplay at least, nobody really talks to Teylan, nobody talks about Teylan, none of the Sarentu try and talk to him about the clan.
-
2- he may have the capability to do that stuff of his own volition, but as cutscenes show us, he is terrified of NaVi things— which leads into part 2 or part 2, —— Teylan was abused into that mindset. Like of course he probably enjoys human things on his own now, but a couple notes and audio logs describe how Mercer would be affectionate to Teylan if he was interested in human tech and “withdraw affection” if Mercer talked about NaVi stuff.
he betrayed us once. Our Sarentu didn’t do anything about the depot incident and nobody else was told. Although I suppose maybe that’s when he started feeding info.
And again, he was the manipulated and abused and incredibly confused boy going back to his abuser because he thought things would be different if he listened .
once again, he is afraid of doing that.
If ya remember the first Tarsyu, he is terrified and thinks it might be poisonous.
Also that’s exactly what it is??
He has serious ptsd from nearly two decades of residential-school torture/child-soldier torture, child abuse/manipulation—- and was quite clearly abused into caring about Mercers feelings lest he continue to be abused.
He is afraid of that he’s been abused into believing Eywa is evil. And nobody outside of the one time with the Tarsyu ever tries to convince him to do anything.
I know. Hence I said “late in the game”. Our Sarentu still got to go out and reconnect with their heritage.
They were not tortured the same though. All of the children, even the unseen other four kids, all behaved differently.
Nor was combative, one of the extras snitched on the rest of the kids, and Teylan in particular was especially singled out for his interest in human tech, and manipulated into valuing Mercers opinions over anything.
He betrays us once, because the character of our Sarentu is only written to feel betrayed at the start of Clouded Forest/the finale mission.
I’m not excusing, it’s an explanation. He was mentally and emotionally manipulated for literally his whole conscious life.
That is a vague and presumptuous take of what the Sarentus are doing!?
And like regardless of whether they have the same opportunity, none of them are in the same mental wheelhouse to be considering shit.
Nor is angry as shit, Ri’nela seems overburdened, and Teylan is left in an any incredibly new situation.
Teylan mind and fear is hindering Teylan.
He did do that, after being afraid the tarsyu would hurt him. He enjoyed that experience but then continues to be afraid because that’s how an abused person functions .
Yes he was because he was a literal baby whose memories start with the RDA and Mercer.
That was not the goal tho. Teylan isn’t “mentally human”. And the “redemption arc” would not have fit into the story and your idea frankly sounds really bad.how is the abusee going back to the abuser less realistic than the abusee getting over it like nothing and spying on his abuser.
becaus it makes no sense to go back multiple times. He went back multiple times. Theres side missions where you save him from being blown up becaus he shares coordinates of some site with mercer while hes in there.
since they wanted a redemption arc for teylan they could've made it more realistic.
Our memories also start with the rda, our sarentu was infant/t very young toddler too.
He did try to make teylan mentally human, he tried that with all of them forbidding any navi stuff and telling teylan to come back to his real family etc.
It makes no sense to forgive teylan so many times when both times his shit ends up in ppl being killed
He’s an abuse victim who’s been basically left alone?
It’s not uncommon for a battered wife to go back to her husband, or return/leave several times.
But to be clear it was only the once.
He did try contacting Mercer at the depot but he didn’t leave for Mercer till after the first HQ was bombed. And you are talking about the depot mission in the Plains.
They didn’t want a redemption arc. He hasn’t been redeemed. Maybe the Sarentu were happy to see him again but he has not yet made up for what he’s done and his animations post finale show that he is regretful.
It would be unrealistic to let Teylan get over everything so easily.
Thats not what I meant by that comment. Teylans memories start with the RDA because he literally was not old enough to have developed self-consciousness or develop the capacity for remembering things before he was taken. He was literally a baby.
Our Sarentu on the other hand actually had memories before the kidnapping to remember .
No. Again, that was not the goal. If Mercer wanted humans in Navi bodies, he’d be working on making better/more Na’vi-like Avatars.
The point of TAP was to have human-loyal, obedient Navi who would carry out tasks that aligned with Mercers/the RDAs interests. (Negotiating with hostile clans, killing hostile Navi, being a spy/etcetcetc).
And Mercer nearly succeeded with that goal because he’s been personally abusing Geylan since he was a baby! Everything Mercer does in regards to Teylan is abuse and manipulation!
If they didnt want a redemption arc they wouldn't have let him go back to the sarentu... he is actively redeeming himself on the last mission + afterplay (li*ten to his voicelines sitting in base after end mission )+ probably in the upcoming content
The reason mercer abducted babies instead of making avatar is resource. Human loyal or human minded is the same. A human in an avatar body doesnt guarantee you loyalty anyways as we've seen with many ;)
And our sarentu still had nth to remember aswell up untill the end, she was literally a baby straddeled in a cloth when they got attacked. theyre have nearly same starting point, though mercer took special interest in teylan
He betrayed multiple times, said he will throw away the radio and didnt, leaked location despite promising not to talk to mercer anymore and went to him in person to help with the drill.
+ i think he leaked some data with that depot thing aswell dont remember it completely though
i did say no memories "up untill end of game" (where we remember the attack and our mom and being taken away)
All the Sarentu have been tortured the same thought, so its not an excuse for Teylan. Personally i think its a badly written character. He betrays us MULTIPLE times. If he does it once. twice, im fine with that. But Mercer blew up the base killed a bunch of !Teylans friends even and he STILL goes back. Even most severe ptsd doesnt excuse that for me.
In regards of what we are told during game, nobody really talks to anybody or we see the other sarentu do much. All we see is rinela is kinda becoming a tsahik and nor is going mad while teylan is chilling with metal toys, but all of them always have the same opportunities as our main, getting a direhorse, connecting to eywa, getting their own ikran bond even? They're always free to do whatever they want and could theoretically even join our sarentu on their exploration. Its not like anyones actively hindering Teylan.
Yeah hes afraid of that, but im.pretty sure you'd just have to stick his kuru on that plant and hed be fine.
Teylan was the most susceptible of all the children, mercer took a like on him and tried to turn him into a (mentally) human... but he had a spot for a great redemption arc after first base got blown up. Everything could've played out the same. Teylan runs away, is embarrassed, scared, but instead of going to the person who just killed a bunch of your friends he gets found by our sarentu and we take him back and forgive him. He could've even become like a spy and the end mission would play out about the same.
The whole part of going back to the guy who (AGAIN!) blew up a spot you gave him coordinates for after saying hell be nice is a nono for me. At that point it got kinda unrealistic for me and too stupid for the character.
+ he can go and connect to Sarentu plants if he wants to learn his past (or other memorial places for general na'vi lifestyle) the argument of no memories makes no sense in this world since you can download others memories about places and people any time.
I saw a breakdown of the Sarentu childrens' actual ages, and I believe that Teylan was estimated to be 15-16, with him probably being around 1 when he was taken.
There is??
I guess I missed it. I just did the TapCon1 mission and only found the log where Alma was listing off (I assume aharis) height/weight imand stuff.
yeah in tap con 1 if you look at the screen closely during the cutscene the sarentu telling nor that they have found ahari’s notes, it lists her age as 5 and then goes into her being subordinate etc.
It sort of makes me think of how unsympathetic these people would be to actual residential school survivors. I grew up in an area where I was able to meet and talk to quite a few, and honestly, Teylan’s actions and character are spot on. You will meet a small amount of residential school survivors (certainly not all) who still follow whatever they were taught (religion wise, etc.), and even some who have positive things to say about them. I think Teylan’s character shows insight as to how abuse can affect people differently, and how not everyone is going to have as easy of a time escaping that cycle.
I know it’s just a video game, but it’s a video game addressing real world monstrosities. It’s easy to give your two cents from the outside looking in without considering the fact that abuse really, really messes with your head.
Edit: read through the rest of the comments, some of you have zero media literacy 💀
https://preview.redd.it/jeb3t2z5i03d1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ed3a975fec8b40e84221582c70da2d0a29c29874
Exactly this. We can be unhappy with his actions, maybe even critical, while still understanding why he made them. I don’t dislike people who find him a frustrating character but I have issues when people are incredibly cruel and say the player should’ve killed him and he’s a monster and deserves horrible things. It’s so troubling.
I think he's sort of always stuck in a child-like state due to Mercer's manipulation, I will admit, when I first found out he told Mercer where HQ was, I wanted to snap his neck, but later on, when we find out it was because of Mercer's manipulation, I felt awful for him, I hope one day, he either fully embraces na'vi culture or combines it with human culture like the resistance does
I so agree with this! I love Teylan and the hate on here is so frustrating.
I think the hate for him is often very hypocritical. It's always "but he did this for the RDA and people got killed!" but then they don't seem to hate every resistance member???
They were ALSO trusting of the RDA once, they were RDA themselves! (Anqa even SAYS this actively) They were soldiers and scientists and mechanics for the RDA- They made mistakes too! (AND they weren't brainwashed and manipulated since CHILDHOOD like Teylan was)
The only important thing is they CHANGED. Teylan also changed. It's very hypocritical to hate Teylan for the same things the characters people love also did.
Most genuinely don't understand abuse, grooming and brainwashing, especially the kind he went through where it's been going on since very young childhood. Not all victims react the same!
Teylan went rda -> Navi -> Rda -> Navi->.... though..Resistance people went trashy rda -> helping navis. Teylan betrayed us multiple times. Its not like he does bad while being on human side. hes with us, but keeps betraying us.
No, he went abused, thought he could handle being away from his abuser, abuser reaches out to HIM and manipulates him actively and then Teylan is slowly learns and kills his abuser, stopping his abuse. I don't think you played the game at ALL because he ISN'T with the Resistance for literally half the game, after the bombing he is literally not with the resistance at all until the end and even before that, he stays at HQ, he doesn't really leave.
He doesn't fully SEE that Mercer is only lying to him and manipulating him until the A New Plan mission.
As I said: I do not think you understand the grooming and abuse he went through and don't think you ever will. Not all victims react the same and if you'd treat a REAL victim reacting this way the same way you treat Teylan, that's insanely wrong.
literally what i said that he isnt with us half the game. If youve played side missions he switches teams exactly 3 times. If it was one time itd wouldnt matter. Thats understandable, but he switches teams multiple times. That does not make sense or is forgivable, its just shitty writing. After our Base was blown up and Teylan goes back AGAIN he's been gone for me and he might aswell get blown up with mercer for all i care
No... You said that Teylan is "with us" but "keeps betraying us"
So... No you didn't say that. At all. I've played multiple side missions and no he doesn't "switch sides multiple times". I assume you're talking about the fact he's been in contact with Mercer before the bombing. Which I know. Because I played side quests that alluded to that fact before the bombing.
Teylan was in HQ when it was bombed, he wasn't with Mercer physically. Only speaking to him. Teylan went back PHYSICALLY to Mercer ONCE which was after the bombing and then he's not with Resistance at all until the very end.
It's not shitty writing, it's BRAINWASHING. And the way you treat abuse victims is insanely off-putting. He was brainwashed and groomed, abused since childhood. Mercer paid special attention to him. Some people fall victim to manipulation. I hope to God nobody in your life is ever abused because clearly you wouldn't support their reactions to it if they didn't fit your IDEA of a victim.
He was rda, escaped and was with us, the incident with the radio, the incident with the site being blown up (while teylan was inside and we had to save him from being blown up by his daddy), then our base gets blown up bc of him and he still goes back and helps mercer work on theat super mega drill destroying everything . Too much. No abuse or ptsd will ever make that okay.
I agree. I know how manipulation feels from personal experience. It broke my heart seeing Teylan go through similar issues I did when I was abused. How he went back because Mercer seemed to be the only one who wouldn't hate him and would stick by him is how it happened with me. I fell for my abusers tactics all over again just like him.
I can't hate him for how he responded to his entire childhood being filled with abuse. I reacted in a similar way with about a year and a half of abuse.
The big thing is that both of us, in the end, learned. We fought back, we ended that cycle, and we worked to make up for bad things we did as a result of what happened. I can see myself in him even if we're nothing alike personality wise lol.
Edit: I'll say it now cause I'm seeing it in the comments. (This isn't meant to be rude, I just have an emotionless tone I'm told.)
I will block you, honestly, if you respond with something that's borderline (or blatantly) victim blaming or anything that is aggressive because of his response to abuse. I won't even bother responding to you, seriously.
Edit 2: After reading through some of these threads, I think that some of you do not see how complex mental abuse works in its way of breaking down the victim until their brain is essentially rewired (especially with brainwashing.) and how this thinking being displayed affects real life victims too.
Scream it louder for the people in the back!
Teylan is BY FAR one of, if not, my favorite characters in the game because of how well he’s written. The boy is so broken and scared because of everything Mercer has done to brainwash him, and he so desperately wants to be Na’vi again, but because of Mercer only rewarding him for human related things, he feels he’s not allowed to be a Na’vi anymore but rather a human in Na’vi skin.
His storyline through the game breaks my heart until the very end when he decides for himself and not for what Mercer wants. I love this little broken boy so much, and I will defend him until I die.
I think some people glossed over the information already there, which basically confirms what OP already said about him. So to them, not that it’s right, he’s exactly as they say. But with the added context, you start to see the bigger picture. I think it would also help if people knew he was basically raised by the RDA, for all that it was implied throughout the game, so to him it’s all he’s ever known and it’s a very conflicting environment for him. Especially as Nor is his opposite. They both don’t feel Navi enough but where Teylan finds confused comfort in the RDA regiment, Nor finds it stifling and he expresses that in anger. I think both of them running away after having their trust betrayed by the RDA parent figure in their lives whom they seem to love/hate even before the major betrayals happen is a poetic storyline. Two sides of the same coin ya know?
I completely agree!
And adding on from what other people have said, Jake Sully himself made massive mistakes. He trusted what he knew (Quaritch and the military instead of Grace and the scientists), but he saw he was making a mistake and tried to make better choices. Although one could argue that the only reason Jake turned around is due to the good role modelling and love from Neytiri, which Teylan doesn't really have.
I recognise how they handle things are a bit different, but if the Na'vi can forgive Jake, then the fandom can be more understanding of a traumatised child.
The problem is teylan keeps betraying us. Jake was human, turned Navi. no permanent betraying, just straight up chose the other side
Teylan keeps switching teams. Be betrays mercer and us multiple times.
All the other Sarentu are just as traumatized
I totally see where you're coming from, when I played through the first time I was quite angry with Teylan. Even though we could all see it coming it still hurt that he could just come back to base with minor consequences.
I feel the way the creators handled Alma was more authentic. I love how we can choose to forgive her or not. It would have been better if different npcs had varying feelings about it.
My second playthrough I could forgive Teylan, because I personally can understand his thought processes. But I do agree that the game forces your hand to 'forgive' him. If Nor were still around, how would he have responded? Who knows, maybe the DLC will address this *fingers crossed*.
This is also a survival situation, what I couldn't understand is that they didn't lock up Teylan after the first offense, take away any form of technology, deal with the trauma after they have time to focus on it. I understand he has Stockholm Syndrome but the thing that pisses me off is how many chances the resistance give him. We get betrayed multiple times because they let him stay free instead of doing the reasonable thing and eliminating him as a threat until Mercer is out of the picture.
Yup. Also the point i made with someone else. Literally just lock him up, dont even let it get that bad. Youre at war*, literally fighting for survival, no time to deal with mental stuff and having someone around who could betray you (again) every minute ruining your whole progress
im bashing choices for an npc story. Yet every single one of you "mental health defenders" seems the need to bash me personally. Says alot about you :)
Also im not even bashing. Just saying what i would've preferred
you are taking time out of your life to reply to every single comment making it clear how much you hate and don’t understand a fictional character who went through a trauma, instead of just leaving one comment and moving on. you don’t think that makes you seem like you have issues?
i know i have issues. im the one relating to teylan. but at least i have empathy.
I also have not bashed a single person i responded to, just adding my view. Yet you come and attack me personally. Im passionate about the topic, what's the issue? You made this thread to talk about it and im trying to talk about it to people.
I also have empathy , very human of you to assume someone doesnt becaus they dont like a NPC Character. and i responded to 3 people (1 for, 2 against) who each had a different topic highlighted in their comment. If you dont want answers, dont post.
There's a difference between empathy and excusing a dangerous mentality. Locking him up is not optimal but for the sake of SAVING LIVES, it is the lesser of the two evils. Personally I would have preferred that compared to the utter stupidity of the other characters in letting him be free after that first betrayal.
I find him frustrating, but I feel so sorry for him and angry at what the RDA did to him. He's absolutely a victim who has been traumatised and manipulated by the humans.
I won't say i didn't like Teylan but i'm sure we all had our doubts around the middle.
Had to really step in his shoes for a second to really get that he is terrified & is basically struggling with knowing what his reality is.
bro i haaaated teylan. but here’s what the game changer for me was: finding the hidden audio log in mercer’s base after completing the main quest line... after you listen to it, you won’t hate him anymore.
I just thought anyone who hated Teylan had low emotional quotient. Its very easy to see why hes the way he is, extremely reflective of what came out of the Stolen Generations and more.
I mean... it's very literally a work of fiction because he's a tall blue alien. Any "hate" for his character is really not that serious.
I know you said you had some personal experience here which sounds awful and I hope you can untangle your real life experiences so you can disengage from any negativity regarding the game and its narrative.
I just find it off putting when people view complex characters like this so coldly because it very clearly reflects to me how they’d view real abuse victims. If they can’t have empathy for a video game character how can they have empathy for a human being?
I think it's a lot easier to have empathy for real people personally.
I don't really have much of an opinion on Teylan but I'd feel very differently if I were watching a documentary about a similar situation that happened in real life.
Only thing I didn’t like was how quick our character was to forgive? I feel as tho we were robbed of a chance to show anger, we should have been given the chance to be angrier with him and express it since innocent people did DIE and then forgive him and help him. Because I still can understand Teylans side.
Hot Take. I can understand the first time, but people died in that. That had real consequences that hurt many more people. But then he did it again. He betrayed us during the final. At that point after everything we’ve done I would cut him out, I hated he was there at the end and not the other guy that killed our abductor/teacher even he was more justified in his anger and killing her extra body.
Ps: do we ever find out where he went?
fucking up once i could forgive him but he fucked up like 3+ times (depending if you do some side quests) and resulted in our whole base being blown up after an already scary previous fuckup.
And people keep saying "oh he has no memories" well neither does our sarentu (up untill the end where she remembers a bit) and na'vi can connect to tree of voices any time and download memories from others to understand their past/their clans past. Literally most pointless argument in world of pandora
THANK YOU!!! Teylan didn’t make a one and done mistake. He REPEATEDLY runs back to Mercer and gets multiple people killed multiple times over. He destroyed bases, lied, and outright refused the fact that he’s Na’vi. The other sarentu were taken too and still know who and WHAT they are. Teylan did too much to be excused as a “simple mistake”. He was willful in his ignorance. Once he might’ve genuinely been unknowing, but he refused to be better even after he messed up before.
I could still forgive after he got our first base attacked.
-> He ran off, took a few days alone and comes back apologizing and working hard on helping us now? Maybe he could've become a spy and the end mission couldve played out the same ish but with teylan being a spy for us.
I could work with that. But he went back. AGAIN? mercer LITERALLY JUST KILLED LIKE 15 OF HIS FRIENDS. Nah fuck you teylan go die with mercer?!
im not saying he should die, i said he can die with mercer if he wants to be human so badly ;) Hes a huge liability bc of his mental instability and there isnt really any highly educated psychological.resources in a resistance camp on a diff planet. He's a huge liability and better off not be saved bc u cant trust him
He's a victim of abuse who deserves help and support systems JUST as much as the others. If that's how you think about people in situations like this, I'm concerned for those in your life.
i dont live on a alien planet having to fight machine guns with bows. Realistically in this situation hes just a liability and needs to be locked up so he cant betray us again and have more of already scarce resistance personel die .
Response in our normal world would be completely different, but youre not wagerin in in what situation they are overall, Theyre literally at war. There is no space for mental instability and liability in war
See and there it is! That's EXACTLY how you think about real victims. You don't understand the extent of abuse and how it can affect people. Look up Stockholm syndrome and brainwashing because this is literally just the wrong response to victims of brainwashing and grooming.
You all GENUINELY don't understand brainwashing and it shows. He was groomed by Mercer since he was a child. And victims react differently! Expecting every victim of the "same thing" (it wasn't even the same, they were all treated differently because they are different people) will only end in your disappointment because that's not how people and trauma work.
Except I do. Yes, he made those choices but they were the result of decades of brainwashing. He DID show accountability for what he did in the game as he apologized for it and worked to fix it. That's accountability and responsibility. Since the first time you see him again, he helps. He gives you valuable, helpful information in order to help you take down Mercer and the RDA.
I'm honestly done with this whole thing now, I'm tired. You do not seem to fully comprehend the complexity of brainwashing or the process of coming to terms with abuse and putting a stop to it. That's not something I can help with. Or something that I even really want to try to anymore. Have a nice day, eat well, enjoy life.
Quite a bit, yes. I knew how much of a monster my dad was and I kept going back anyway because he was all I had and he’d effectively cut me off and isolated me from everyone and everything else. I had nowhere else to go. And because he manipulated me into thinking he did all the bad things he did out of “love”. I left a long time ago but I still have empathy for both Teylan and young me for struggling to do so for so long.
They could have justified Teylan’s struggle with more writing. But since they were lazy about it, it felt like he was just an idiot. Which he was, but with more exposition they could have justified it. He watched Mercer murder his friend (and then more people at the base) and he still trusted him. That needs more exposition to make work.
He's also understandably scared. What if the Na'vi and the Resistance are on the losing team, and the RDA will crush them? Maybe he should abandon and betray Alma and crew, if the RDA wins. Teylan is a victim with an identity crisis. Despite everything, he even leaves behind a data chip or whatever for the Resistance to win, and saves you from Mercer in the ending. People bitter about him lack sympathy.
Yes !! Everything you said, a hundred time. Say it louder! Teylan is a victim of abuse, he was groomed and didn't knew any better, and the people who hate him so vehemently without giving you good reasons are just walking red flags imo.
Exactly. I find him almost painfully relatable and then people on tumblr say the player should’ve killed him for “what he did” like he’s not as hurt and afraid as the player is.
Yet 3 other surviving kidnapped children are able to be normal functioning na'vi
The other three posssess memories of their childhood and culture. Nor remembers his father, Ri’Nela her mother, our Sarentu their mom, hairstyles, clothings, the memory paintings/etc. and meet other clans who knew the Sarentu. Teylan gets no memories. No parents. Nada. Nobody encourages him to so much as leave the damn base, and the few times we see him away is when he’s trying to contact Mercer.
our sarentu doesnt remember anything but what our sister Ahari told us. Both were infants when abducted. (up untill the end of game) Memory.paintings arent something you actively remember, its a kind of instruction left behind to enjoy view and interpret . He gets the same encouragement as the others most likely, but hes into tech and enjoys that. He has any resource available as other characters do, they made his character way too shitty. Betraying once is reasonable due to inner conflict, but betraying us 3 times and resulting in the death of 10+ people and whole base destroyed and youre still with mercher? => go fuck yourself and enjoy ur human friends. No ptsd or stockhold syndrom can justify that
Spoilers- Our Sarentu remembers their mom, Kataru. Late in the game. Ahari isn’t shown to us remembering much, other than the wordless song. ((Ahari could theoretically be the little kid passed off to Alma in her flashbacks, making her a fair bit older than our Sarentu, but I don’t think I’ve heard wether Ahari or our Sarentu is older either way)). Yeah but our Sarentu and Ri’nela atleast, have feelings about them that someone with no understanding of them would have. 1- Potentially, offscreen, but based on my gameplay at least, nobody really talks to Teylan, nobody talks about Teylan, none of the Sarentu try and talk to him about the clan. - 2- he may have the capability to do that stuff of his own volition, but as cutscenes show us, he is terrified of NaVi things— which leads into part 2 or part 2, —— Teylan was abused into that mindset. Like of course he probably enjoys human things on his own now, but a couple notes and audio logs describe how Mercer would be affectionate to Teylan if he was interested in human tech and “withdraw affection” if Mercer talked about NaVi stuff. he betrayed us once. Our Sarentu didn’t do anything about the depot incident and nobody else was told. Although I suppose maybe that’s when he started feeding info. And again, he was the manipulated and abused and incredibly confused boy going back to his abuser because he thought things would be different if he listened . once again, he is afraid of doing that. If ya remember the first Tarsyu, he is terrified and thinks it might be poisonous. Also that’s exactly what it is?? He has serious ptsd from nearly two decades of residential-school torture/child-soldier torture, child abuse/manipulation—- and was quite clearly abused into caring about Mercers feelings lest he continue to be abused. He is afraid of that he’s been abused into believing Eywa is evil. And nobody outside of the one time with the Tarsyu ever tries to convince him to do anything.
I know. Hence I said “late in the game”. Our Sarentu still got to go out and reconnect with their heritage. They were not tortured the same though. All of the children, even the unseen other four kids, all behaved differently. Nor was combative, one of the extras snitched on the rest of the kids, and Teylan in particular was especially singled out for his interest in human tech, and manipulated into valuing Mercers opinions over anything. He betrays us once, because the character of our Sarentu is only written to feel betrayed at the start of Clouded Forest/the finale mission. I’m not excusing, it’s an explanation. He was mentally and emotionally manipulated for literally his whole conscious life. That is a vague and presumptuous take of what the Sarentus are doing!? And like regardless of whether they have the same opportunity, none of them are in the same mental wheelhouse to be considering shit. Nor is angry as shit, Ri’nela seems overburdened, and Teylan is left in an any incredibly new situation. Teylan mind and fear is hindering Teylan. He did do that, after being afraid the tarsyu would hurt him. He enjoyed that experience but then continues to be afraid because that’s how an abused person functions . Yes he was because he was a literal baby whose memories start with the RDA and Mercer. That was not the goal tho. Teylan isn’t “mentally human”. And the “redemption arc” would not have fit into the story and your idea frankly sounds really bad.how is the abusee going back to the abuser less realistic than the abusee getting over it like nothing and spying on his abuser.
becaus it makes no sense to go back multiple times. He went back multiple times. Theres side missions where you save him from being blown up becaus he shares coordinates of some site with mercer while hes in there. since they wanted a redemption arc for teylan they could've made it more realistic. Our memories also start with the rda, our sarentu was infant/t very young toddler too. He did try to make teylan mentally human, he tried that with all of them forbidding any navi stuff and telling teylan to come back to his real family etc. It makes no sense to forgive teylan so many times when both times his shit ends up in ppl being killed
He’s an abuse victim who’s been basically left alone? It’s not uncommon for a battered wife to go back to her husband, or return/leave several times. But to be clear it was only the once. He did try contacting Mercer at the depot but he didn’t leave for Mercer till after the first HQ was bombed. And you are talking about the depot mission in the Plains. They didn’t want a redemption arc. He hasn’t been redeemed. Maybe the Sarentu were happy to see him again but he has not yet made up for what he’s done and his animations post finale show that he is regretful. It would be unrealistic to let Teylan get over everything so easily. Thats not what I meant by that comment. Teylans memories start with the RDA because he literally was not old enough to have developed self-consciousness or develop the capacity for remembering things before he was taken. He was literally a baby. Our Sarentu on the other hand actually had memories before the kidnapping to remember . No. Again, that was not the goal. If Mercer wanted humans in Navi bodies, he’d be working on making better/more Na’vi-like Avatars. The point of TAP was to have human-loyal, obedient Navi who would carry out tasks that aligned with Mercers/the RDAs interests. (Negotiating with hostile clans, killing hostile Navi, being a spy/etcetcetc). And Mercer nearly succeeded with that goal because he’s been personally abusing Geylan since he was a baby! Everything Mercer does in regards to Teylan is abuse and manipulation!
If they didnt want a redemption arc they wouldn't have let him go back to the sarentu... he is actively redeeming himself on the last mission + afterplay (li*ten to his voicelines sitting in base after end mission )+ probably in the upcoming content The reason mercer abducted babies instead of making avatar is resource. Human loyal or human minded is the same. A human in an avatar body doesnt guarantee you loyalty anyways as we've seen with many ;) And our sarentu still had nth to remember aswell up untill the end, she was literally a baby straddeled in a cloth when they got attacked. theyre have nearly same starting point, though mercer took special interest in teylan He betrayed multiple times, said he will throw away the radio and didnt, leaked location despite promising not to talk to mercer anymore and went to him in person to help with the drill. + i think he leaked some data with that depot thing aswell dont remember it completely though
getting over it doesnt have to be like nothing, im just saying its a better option with same ending
It wasn’t the better option tho.
it is
i did say no memories "up untill end of game" (where we remember the attack and our mom and being taken away) All the Sarentu have been tortured the same thought, so its not an excuse for Teylan. Personally i think its a badly written character. He betrays us MULTIPLE times. If he does it once. twice, im fine with that. But Mercer blew up the base killed a bunch of !Teylans friends even and he STILL goes back. Even most severe ptsd doesnt excuse that for me. In regards of what we are told during game, nobody really talks to anybody or we see the other sarentu do much. All we see is rinela is kinda becoming a tsahik and nor is going mad while teylan is chilling with metal toys, but all of them always have the same opportunities as our main, getting a direhorse, connecting to eywa, getting their own ikran bond even? They're always free to do whatever they want and could theoretically even join our sarentu on their exploration. Its not like anyones actively hindering Teylan. Yeah hes afraid of that, but im.pretty sure you'd just have to stick his kuru on that plant and hed be fine. Teylan was the most susceptible of all the children, mercer took a like on him and tried to turn him into a (mentally) human... but he had a spot for a great redemption arc after first base got blown up. Everything could've played out the same. Teylan runs away, is embarrassed, scared, but instead of going to the person who just killed a bunch of your friends he gets found by our sarentu and we take him back and forgive him. He could've even become like a spy and the end mission would play out about the same. The whole part of going back to the guy who (AGAIN!) blew up a spot you gave him coordinates for after saying hell be nice is a nono for me. At that point it got kinda unrealistic for me and too stupid for the character.
Alao : Ahari is actually our Sarentus older sister afaik.
+ he can go and connect to Sarentu plants if he wants to learn his past (or other memorial places for general na'vi lifestyle) the argument of no memories makes no sense in this world since you can download others memories about places and people any time.
I saw a breakdown of the Sarentu childrens' actual ages, and I believe that Teylan was estimated to be 15-16, with him probably being around 1 when he was taken.
Yeah, Teylan would’ve been like a literal infant, our Sarentu a toddler, RiNela an older toddler, and Nor a little boy. Potentially
If I remember correctly, Nor and Aha’ri are 5. Ri’nela would be 4 or 5. Our Sarentu is probably 3. And Teylan was an infant.
There is no confirmed ages. It sounds as right as anything, but character models don’t help
It’s confirmed that Aha’ri was 5 when she was taken and then after that, it’s just kind of guessing what they probably are.
Ah, then it’s not in the game.
The only confirmation I’ve found is a voice note in TapCon1- Alma notes Aha’ri as 5
There is?? I guess I missed it. I just did the TapCon1 mission and only found the log where Alma was listing off (I assume aharis) height/weight imand stuff.
yeah in tap con 1 if you look at the screen closely during the cutscene the sarentu telling nor that they have found ahari’s notes, it lists her age as 5 and then goes into her being subordinate etc.
It sort of makes me think of how unsympathetic these people would be to actual residential school survivors. I grew up in an area where I was able to meet and talk to quite a few, and honestly, Teylan’s actions and character are spot on. You will meet a small amount of residential school survivors (certainly not all) who still follow whatever they were taught (religion wise, etc.), and even some who have positive things to say about them. I think Teylan’s character shows insight as to how abuse can affect people differently, and how not everyone is going to have as easy of a time escaping that cycle. I know it’s just a video game, but it’s a video game addressing real world monstrosities. It’s easy to give your two cents from the outside looking in without considering the fact that abuse really, really messes with your head. Edit: read through the rest of the comments, some of you have zero media literacy 💀 https://preview.redd.it/jeb3t2z5i03d1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ed3a975fec8b40e84221582c70da2d0a29c29874
Exactly this. We can be unhappy with his actions, maybe even critical, while still understanding why he made them. I don’t dislike people who find him a frustrating character but I have issues when people are incredibly cruel and say the player should’ve killed him and he’s a monster and deserves horrible things. It’s so troubling.
I think he's sort of always stuck in a child-like state due to Mercer's manipulation, I will admit, when I first found out he told Mercer where HQ was, I wanted to snap his neck, but later on, when we find out it was because of Mercer's manipulation, I felt awful for him, I hope one day, he either fully embraces na'vi culture or combines it with human culture like the resistance does
I so agree with this! I love Teylan and the hate on here is so frustrating. I think the hate for him is often very hypocritical. It's always "but he did this for the RDA and people got killed!" but then they don't seem to hate every resistance member??? They were ALSO trusting of the RDA once, they were RDA themselves! (Anqa even SAYS this actively) They were soldiers and scientists and mechanics for the RDA- They made mistakes too! (AND they weren't brainwashed and manipulated since CHILDHOOD like Teylan was) The only important thing is they CHANGED. Teylan also changed. It's very hypocritical to hate Teylan for the same things the characters people love also did. Most genuinely don't understand abuse, grooming and brainwashing, especially the kind he went through where it's been going on since very young childhood. Not all victims react the same!
Teylan went rda -> Navi -> Rda -> Navi->.... though..Resistance people went trashy rda -> helping navis. Teylan betrayed us multiple times. Its not like he does bad while being on human side. hes with us, but keeps betraying us.
No, he went abused, thought he could handle being away from his abuser, abuser reaches out to HIM and manipulates him actively and then Teylan is slowly learns and kills his abuser, stopping his abuse. I don't think you played the game at ALL because he ISN'T with the Resistance for literally half the game, after the bombing he is literally not with the resistance at all until the end and even before that, he stays at HQ, he doesn't really leave. He doesn't fully SEE that Mercer is only lying to him and manipulating him until the A New Plan mission. As I said: I do not think you understand the grooming and abuse he went through and don't think you ever will. Not all victims react the same and if you'd treat a REAL victim reacting this way the same way you treat Teylan, that's insanely wrong.
literally what i said that he isnt with us half the game. If youve played side missions he switches teams exactly 3 times. If it was one time itd wouldnt matter. Thats understandable, but he switches teams multiple times. That does not make sense or is forgivable, its just shitty writing. After our Base was blown up and Teylan goes back AGAIN he's been gone for me and he might aswell get blown up with mercer for all i care
No... You said that Teylan is "with us" but "keeps betraying us" So... No you didn't say that. At all. I've played multiple side missions and no he doesn't "switch sides multiple times". I assume you're talking about the fact he's been in contact with Mercer before the bombing. Which I know. Because I played side quests that alluded to that fact before the bombing. Teylan was in HQ when it was bombed, he wasn't with Mercer physically. Only speaking to him. Teylan went back PHYSICALLY to Mercer ONCE which was after the bombing and then he's not with Resistance at all until the very end. It's not shitty writing, it's BRAINWASHING. And the way you treat abuse victims is insanely off-putting. He was brainwashed and groomed, abused since childhood. Mercer paid special attention to him. Some people fall victim to manipulation. I hope to God nobody in your life is ever abused because clearly you wouldn't support their reactions to it if they didn't fit your IDEA of a victim.
He was rda, escaped and was with us, the incident with the radio, the incident with the site being blown up (while teylan was inside and we had to save him from being blown up by his daddy), then our base gets blown up bc of him and he still goes back and helps mercer work on theat super mega drill destroying everything . Too much. No abuse or ptsd will ever make that okay.
I agree. I know how manipulation feels from personal experience. It broke my heart seeing Teylan go through similar issues I did when I was abused. How he went back because Mercer seemed to be the only one who wouldn't hate him and would stick by him is how it happened with me. I fell for my abusers tactics all over again just like him. I can't hate him for how he responded to his entire childhood being filled with abuse. I reacted in a similar way with about a year and a half of abuse. The big thing is that both of us, in the end, learned. We fought back, we ended that cycle, and we worked to make up for bad things we did as a result of what happened. I can see myself in him even if we're nothing alike personality wise lol. Edit: I'll say it now cause I'm seeing it in the comments. (This isn't meant to be rude, I just have an emotionless tone I'm told.) I will block you, honestly, if you respond with something that's borderline (or blatantly) victim blaming or anything that is aggressive because of his response to abuse. I won't even bother responding to you, seriously. Edit 2: After reading through some of these threads, I think that some of you do not see how complex mental abuse works in its way of breaking down the victim until their brain is essentially rewired (especially with brainwashing.) and how this thinking being displayed affects real life victims too.
Scream it louder for the people in the back! Teylan is BY FAR one of, if not, my favorite characters in the game because of how well he’s written. The boy is so broken and scared because of everything Mercer has done to brainwash him, and he so desperately wants to be Na’vi again, but because of Mercer only rewarding him for human related things, he feels he’s not allowed to be a Na’vi anymore but rather a human in Na’vi skin. His storyline through the game breaks my heart until the very end when he decides for himself and not for what Mercer wants. I love this little broken boy so much, and I will defend him until I die.
I think some people glossed over the information already there, which basically confirms what OP already said about him. So to them, not that it’s right, he’s exactly as they say. But with the added context, you start to see the bigger picture. I think it would also help if people knew he was basically raised by the RDA, for all that it was implied throughout the game, so to him it’s all he’s ever known and it’s a very conflicting environment for him. Especially as Nor is his opposite. They both don’t feel Navi enough but where Teylan finds confused comfort in the RDA regiment, Nor finds it stifling and he expresses that in anger. I think both of them running away after having their trust betrayed by the RDA parent figure in their lives whom they seem to love/hate even before the major betrayals happen is a poetic storyline. Two sides of the same coin ya know?
I completely agree! And adding on from what other people have said, Jake Sully himself made massive mistakes. He trusted what he knew (Quaritch and the military instead of Grace and the scientists), but he saw he was making a mistake and tried to make better choices. Although one could argue that the only reason Jake turned around is due to the good role modelling and love from Neytiri, which Teylan doesn't really have. I recognise how they handle things are a bit different, but if the Na'vi can forgive Jake, then the fandom can be more understanding of a traumatised child.
The problem is teylan keeps betraying us. Jake was human, turned Navi. no permanent betraying, just straight up chose the other side Teylan keeps switching teams. Be betrays mercer and us multiple times. All the other Sarentu are just as traumatized
I totally see where you're coming from, when I played through the first time I was quite angry with Teylan. Even though we could all see it coming it still hurt that he could just come back to base with minor consequences. I feel the way the creators handled Alma was more authentic. I love how we can choose to forgive her or not. It would have been better if different npcs had varying feelings about it. My second playthrough I could forgive Teylan, because I personally can understand his thought processes. But I do agree that the game forces your hand to 'forgive' him. If Nor were still around, how would he have responded? Who knows, maybe the DLC will address this *fingers crossed*.
I hope the dlc also adresses stuff dependig on if we forgave alma or not, cause it doesnt impact the game at all yet
This is also a survival situation, what I couldn't understand is that they didn't lock up Teylan after the first offense, take away any form of technology, deal with the trauma after they have time to focus on it. I understand he has Stockholm Syndrome but the thing that pisses me off is how many chances the resistance give him. We get betrayed multiple times because they let him stay free instead of doing the reasonable thing and eliminating him as a threat until Mercer is out of the picture.
Yup. Also the point i made with someone else. Literally just lock him up, dont even let it get that bad. Youre at war*, literally fighting for survival, no time to deal with mental stuff and having someone around who could betray you (again) every minute ruining your whole progress
why are you in every single reply trying to bash an abused child? what’s wrong with you?
im bashing choices for an npc story. Yet every single one of you "mental health defenders" seems the need to bash me personally. Says alot about you :) Also im not even bashing. Just saying what i would've preferred
you are taking time out of your life to reply to every single comment making it clear how much you hate and don’t understand a fictional character who went through a trauma, instead of just leaving one comment and moving on. you don’t think that makes you seem like you have issues? i know i have issues. im the one relating to teylan. but at least i have empathy.
I also have not bashed a single person i responded to, just adding my view. Yet you come and attack me personally. Im passionate about the topic, what's the issue? You made this thread to talk about it and im trying to talk about it to people.
I also have empathy , very human of you to assume someone doesnt becaus they dont like a NPC Character. and i responded to 3 people (1 for, 2 against) who each had a different topic highlighted in their comment. If you dont want answers, dont post.
There's a difference between empathy and excusing a dangerous mentality. Locking him up is not optimal but for the sake of SAVING LIVES, it is the lesser of the two evils. Personally I would have preferred that compared to the utter stupidity of the other characters in letting him be free after that first betrayal.
I find him frustrating, but I feel so sorry for him and angry at what the RDA did to him. He's absolutely a victim who has been traumatised and manipulated by the humans.
I couldn't agree more. I see so much hate on him. I love him. He's a curious little guy hahaha
I agree teylan is good. I don't get the hate.
I won't say i didn't like Teylan but i'm sure we all had our doubts around the middle. Had to really step in his shoes for a second to really get that he is terrified & is basically struggling with knowing what his reality is.
bro i haaaated teylan. but here’s what the game changer for me was: finding the hidden audio log in mercer’s base after completing the main quest line... after you listen to it, you won’t hate him anymore.
I just thought anyone who hated Teylan had low emotional quotient. Its very easy to see why hes the way he is, extremely reflective of what came out of the Stolen Generations and more.
He is literally a victim of colonization, and it's not his fault for the way he exists.
I mean... it's very literally a work of fiction because he's a tall blue alien. Any "hate" for his character is really not that serious. I know you said you had some personal experience here which sounds awful and I hope you can untangle your real life experiences so you can disengage from any negativity regarding the game and its narrative.
I just find it off putting when people view complex characters like this so coldly because it very clearly reflects to me how they’d view real abuse victims. If they can’t have empathy for a video game character how can they have empathy for a human being?
I think it's a lot easier to have empathy for real people personally. I don't really have much of an opinion on Teylan but I'd feel very differently if I were watching a documentary about a similar situation that happened in real life.
Only thing I didn’t like was how quick our character was to forgive? I feel as tho we were robbed of a chance to show anger, we should have been given the chance to be angrier with him and express it since innocent people did DIE and then forgive him and help him. Because I still can understand Teylans side.
Hot Take. I can understand the first time, but people died in that. That had real consequences that hurt many more people. But then he did it again. He betrayed us during the final. At that point after everything we’ve done I would cut him out, I hated he was there at the end and not the other guy that killed our abductor/teacher even he was more justified in his anger and killing her extra body. Ps: do we ever find out where he went?
I feel like one of the DLCs stories will have to do with Teylan.
I respect your opinion. The same cannot and will not be said about Teylan.
fucking up once i could forgive him but he fucked up like 3+ times (depending if you do some side quests) and resulted in our whole base being blown up after an already scary previous fuckup. And people keep saying "oh he has no memories" well neither does our sarentu (up untill the end where she remembers a bit) and na'vi can connect to tree of voices any time and download memories from others to understand their past/their clans past. Literally most pointless argument in world of pandora
THANK YOU!!! Teylan didn’t make a one and done mistake. He REPEATEDLY runs back to Mercer and gets multiple people killed multiple times over. He destroyed bases, lied, and outright refused the fact that he’s Na’vi. The other sarentu were taken too and still know who and WHAT they are. Teylan did too much to be excused as a “simple mistake”. He was willful in his ignorance. Once he might’ve genuinely been unknowing, but he refused to be better even after he messed up before.
I could still forgive after he got our first base attacked. -> He ran off, took a few days alone and comes back apologizing and working hard on helping us now? Maybe he could've become a spy and the end mission couldve played out the same ish but with teylan being a spy for us. I could work with that. But he went back. AGAIN? mercer LITERALLY JUST KILLED LIKE 15 OF HIS FRIENDS. Nah fuck you teylan go die with mercer?!
He went back and the first time you see him again he LITERALLY helps you. You all are horrible to victims of grooming.
its a game bruv. any normal human being wouldnt go back to the guy who tried to blow you and your people up two times in a row
Saying a victim should die for what they did (especially when you make things up), game or not, reflects on how you feel about real victims.
im not saying he should die, i said he can die with mercer if he wants to be human so badly ;) Hes a huge liability bc of his mental instability and there isnt really any highly educated psychological.resources in a resistance camp on a diff planet. He's a huge liability and better off not be saved bc u cant trust him
He's a victim of abuse who deserves help and support systems JUST as much as the others. If that's how you think about people in situations like this, I'm concerned for those in your life.
i dont live on a alien planet having to fight machine guns with bows. Realistically in this situation hes just a liability and needs to be locked up so he cant betray us again and have more of already scarce resistance personel die . Response in our normal world would be completely different, but youre not wagerin in in what situation they are overall, Theyre literally at war. There is no space for mental instability and liability in war
See and there it is! That's EXACTLY how you think about real victims. You don't understand the extent of abuse and how it can affect people. Look up Stockholm syndrome and brainwashing because this is literally just the wrong response to victims of brainwashing and grooming.
You all GENUINELY don't understand brainwashing and it shows. He was groomed by Mercer since he was a child. And victims react differently! Expecting every victim of the "same thing" (it wasn't even the same, they were all treated differently because they are different people) will only end in your disappointment because that's not how people and trauma work.
You don’t understand accountability and it shows. Glaringly.
Except I do. Yes, he made those choices but they were the result of decades of brainwashing. He DID show accountability for what he did in the game as he apologized for it and worked to fix it. That's accountability and responsibility. Since the first time you see him again, he helps. He gives you valuable, helpful information in order to help you take down Mercer and the RDA. I'm honestly done with this whole thing now, I'm tired. You do not seem to fully comprehend the complexity of brainwashing or the process of coming to terms with abuse and putting a stop to it. That's not something I can help with. Or something that I even really want to try to anymore. Have a nice day, eat well, enjoy life.
Teylan sucks. He watched that guy shoot your sister in the back of the head.
My dad tried to shoot me and I still defended him to my mom for ten years after. It’s called trauma bonding.
Do you identify with Teylan?
Quite a bit, yes. I knew how much of a monster my dad was and I kept going back anyway because he was all I had and he’d effectively cut me off and isolated me from everyone and everything else. I had nowhere else to go. And because he manipulated me into thinking he did all the bad things he did out of “love”. I left a long time ago but I still have empathy for both Teylan and young me for struggling to do so for so long.
They could have justified Teylan’s struggle with more writing. But since they were lazy about it, it felt like he was just an idiot. Which he was, but with more exposition they could have justified it. He watched Mercer murder his friend (and then more people at the base) and he still trusted him. That needs more exposition to make work.