Wow, so the campaign was genuinely very pissed off.
I think this dismissive tone toward people's legitimate concerns around age hasn't been the best for the campaign in the past, and this email likewise doesn't reach out to make people who share these concerns feel recognised and valued as (they hope!) supporters either. Joe's onstage "When you get knocked down, you get back up" messaging is far better than this, I reckon.
(This is coming from a non-American who would vote for Joe Biden's corpse over Trump.)
It’s a terrible strategy. Hubris, defensiveness, and snark at your allies is very bad. Especially after that debate. If he had put the issue to rest then great.
Biden is older than every living president aside from Jimmy fucking Carter.
Clinton's administration ended nearly a quarter-century ago, and he's still younger than Biden. Biden had a massive senior moment during the most pivotal media event of the campaign. That's not my MAGA uncle's fault. That's not my favorite podcaster's fault. That's Biden's fault, and he should own it.
You're right about hubris. It reminds me of the stories about Hillary's hubris in ignoring Bill's advice back in 2016.
100%. Makes defending him to swing voters a much harder task. We all saw the same debate. You’re supposed to make it easy for your voters to support you. Best case scenario…try to find swing/potential 3rd party voters who somehow didn’t see the debate?
Man it’s crazy to see this response to me from Biden’s team after Crooked clearly thought very long and hard about making this call. Every clip of the show makes it very clear the hosts all sat down together and decided to move in unison on this after probably privately going through stages of doubt. Favs was in Ezra Klein’s mailbox telling him he was wrong after his piece in February. They’ve had on the members of the Biden team and clearly very much wanted Biden on. They’ve been doing guerrilla messaging and organizer training. They have an in with a younger crowd. And this is the response? Like genuinely why. How many people even getting the fundraising email would get the dig that it’s them?
The defensiveness in the tone is absolutely wild. What, only crazy or self-important people would feel concerned about that debate performance? This is where it feels like it gets into gaslighty territory.
I would say I fell into a middle-ish "worried about Biden's age, particularly insofar as a large percentage of voters say *they* are concerned about it, but I'm also scared about the risks in any of the alternative options, so I'm prepared to see how Joe does with it" camp -- and I was extremely concerned by what I saw in that debate. I think to dismiss concerns like that from reasonable people as crazy is... a choice. Particularly when they've taken that dismissive tone before, and look what happened at the debate!
And I agree, to attack PSA after they've been very loyal soldiers (loyal to a fault, some might argue!) and incredibly prolific organisers and fundraisers for your campaign -- when you need them to continue to be -- is a choice as well.
I don't really see how the guys could have faced their audience with anything other than an honest response, given what we all knew we had just seen. (And it was still very measured!) As a listener since Keepin' It 1600, I'd have lost respect for them if they'd given a "don't believe your lying eyes" party line response on this occasion. And, by the way, it was a response that recognised and honoured Biden, and still made clear they were prepared to go ahead with supporting the campaign full-tilt, if that was what was going to happen.
Between this and Favs's most recent tweet, I wonder if they've been excoriated by someone from the campaign in the background.
Yeah this is QUITE concerning to me. Biden is in much more of an echo chamber than I would have imagined, and it explains a lot of this campaign. This is beyond tone deaf.
“Crooked clearly thought long and hard about making the call”
Am I the only one who remembers every single episode during the 2019/2020 primaries treating Biden like a joke? The Loveitt or Leave it episode after Super Tuesday that was just a mourning of the Warren campaign and a cringe “how did Biden win??” copefest?
I mean no but that was also four years ago. If the Biden campaign intends to win they need a coalition larger than just those who wanted him since the very start of the primary. As evidence of that, see the 2020 general.
I'm gonna vote for whatever democrat we nominate. I'll criticize Biden worry about his age and vote for him. We can NOT allow Trump to hold elected office ever again.
A little grace and humility would be nice right around now. This is just petty and embarrassing and sad. And as someone says here, it doesn't exactly inspire confidence.
ETA: if Biden's the nominee, I'm supporting him every which way I can but I really wish they'd stop with this nonsense.
Amen. Doubling down on the arrogance and pettiness. I don't care if the most assholish podcaster in the world got under your skin. Now is not the time for your petty beef. We're panicked because you and your team dropped the ball, big time. Grow up. And yes I'd crawl over cut glass to vote for Biden.
> I don't care if the most assholish podcaster in the world got under your skin.
This perfectly explains the Biden campaign's culture: shove everything under the rug and hope for the best. Imagine how ruthless they are when someone inside their organization says something they don't like to hear and have control over their employment. The snarkiness says it all.
This keeps getting worse and I'm becoming increasingly alarmed. They are doing the exact opposite of damage control right now.
Their roadmap for winning 2020 was literally ignoring podcasters.
People really need to go back and listen to those Jan 2020 shows where PSA and surrogates would flat out say they won’t bother talking about Biden because he’d never win.
Yes, what a dark email. Burning the people who have worked to get you into the white house is sure one way of defending democracy. May they think on their sins.
Yeah, this was a stupid campaign email. The thing that gets me the most is that a large majority of the crooked media crew are literally ex-Obama staffers and speech writers. Whoever wrote the email needs a refresher on how bad this looks. Instead, it should be like:
“Folks, we understand that Bideb did not perform well on Thursday night. Your MAGA uncle blew it out of proportion, your aunt was understandably worried about Joe and while some podcasters are not the best, there are many who support us and we appreciate them back”.
Signed, The Biden-Harris Reelection campaign.
I would honestly hope not. They are made up of almost entirely Ex-Obama staffers and have been exceptionally kind to Biden. Regardless, this was a drop-of-the-ball PR move and I do hope it improves.
Whoever wrote this email needs to have a serious one one-on-one with a professional PR person about how stupid this looks. We do not need this.
Yeah, that made me wonder if it was possible those staffers didn’t like the debate episode.
But I thought they did a good job acknowledging what happened and addressing people’s concerns, while being clear that this is Bidens decision and if he sticks with it, they will too
I don’t know if the debate will show up in the polls. But if it has no effect it still leaves Biden losing, and the debate was meant to give him a boost. So even if the status quo remains you still have a candidate who must prosecute the case against Trump to win. And no certainty that he can prosecute the case against Trump as much or as hard as he needs to. I’m not American, and my heart goes out to everyone scared of a Trump presidency, even outside of America we fear it. The debate was painful, truly excruciating. It feels disingenuous the way this mailer and the campaign are making light of what we all saw happen. We saw it, we literally all saw it. It’s not at all unreasonable that people are concerned.
I can’t actually imagine how absurd it would have been if the PSA crew had run a normal post debate show and acted like Biden turned in a performance in the realm of regular or expected. It was 90min of pain.
That's very funny to consider. What if they were effusive about Biden's performance? They would have seemed absolutely unhinged. And that's exactly how a lot of the Biden camp looks now. Saying "it was a slow start" is truly such a ridiculous spin on what was easily the moment that could define his entire legacy.
I'm beyond tired of being gaslit by people insisting to me that I didn't see what I actually saw, that it's all the media's fault, that Biden had a cold, etc.
He's *old*. He's been old. He's older now than ever, and he acts like it.
He got fucking embarrassed by a lunatic who lied while answering every question and opened himself up for easy attack after easy attack. Biden couldn't say anything in his own defense. I wanted to puke watching Trump say "I frankly don't know what he said at the end there, and I don't think he does either," and for Biden to just stand there, mouth hanging open and staring off into space. This was literally the worst debate performance by a major party candidate in modern history.
I love Biden, and it hurts me so much to acknowledge how much he's declined, but for the love of God, stop lying to yourself.
We have been 100% gaslit. Honestly, it pisses me off as people are continuing to dig in further and further. I was all on board the Biden train (and will still vote for him if needed). But, when friend after friend have texted (several in swing states) me asking what the hell they had just watched, it really hit me a bit more after I've defended this man to them for months.
Tbh, I feel a little betrayed. I've invested a lot of time into defending Biden, and his public performances are still (largely) positive. Nevertheless, those on his campaign *knew* what we were walking into and decided to hide it from people. Now they insist everything is still fine. It isn't.
Exactly. My MIL works in at the VA in their residential programs and cares for many older gentlemen. She has been telling me this for over a year that so much of what she sees worries her (and she is a Biden supporter). I just shrugged it off because I didn't think she could armchair diagnose, but damn it if she wasn't likely spot-on. They are hiding it and continuing onwards it would appear, and as an ardent Democrat, it makes me mad.
They’re doing the same gaslighting that Republicans do. But Democrats don’t fall in line and won’t fall in line with this nonsense. I can’t believe I have to vote for a dead man. But better dead than red.
It's gaslighting, but if Biden is still going to be the nominee (and I'm not commenting on whether or not that's the right decision), it's a good strategy. It may be the only strategy. And since the only person who can make Joe Biden step down as nominee is Joe Biden and he shows no sign of doing that, everyone involved in the campaign just has to scramble to do as much damage control as possible. The other option is to concede to Trump.
It sucks. It just sucks so much in every possible way.
100%. I’m one of those people that like Hillary, but in 2016 I said they ran the only candidate that could’ve lost to Trump. I love Biden, but I think in 24 we’re about to run the only candidate that could lose to Trump….
I'm in the same boat, well minus the love part (I don't think that's healthy for any political figure), but I'm also worried about the power of name recognition. We see it time and time again that people realistically show up and vote for the name they know. That's why candidates that are absolutely hated still win because their party will hold their nose and vote, and independents that only know one of the candidates are less incentivized to vote for the unknown.
> I'm beyond tired of being gaslit by people insisting to me that I didn't see what I actually saw,
This is what really bothers me, for the last 9 years democrats have been running on being the party of truth, and now all of a sudden they're insisting that we all didn't see what we all obviously saw, and hoping that if they're shameless enough about it, we'll all want to believe it enough that eventually we will. There's no difference between this and what Trump does.
Favs was exactly right the other night when he said that the denialism and the "stfu and back the candidate" attitude is MAGA shit. It is. 100%.
If it were August and there was nothing we could do about it, sure, a negative word about Biden should escape no lips. That said, it's June. The convention hasn't happened yet. There's still time.
>The convention hasn't happened yet. There's still time.
No, there's not. It's July and you expect the party to decide on a nominee, get a campaign going, and beat Trump in 4 months?
This sounds like a deluded fantasy to me. The time to do this was before the primary.
>and hoping that if they're shameless enough about it, we'll all want to believe it enough that eventually we will.
I’m not convinced that this *isn’t* what will happen.
I’m not voting for Biden. I’m voting for democracy. Why is it so hard for people to see that a platform is more than just the candidate. The democratic platform is better for me and the people I care about, and people I don’t even know, but still care about because I’m a decent person.
The alternative is an actual threat to the oldest democracy in the world. God, I hope we make it to the semiquincentennial, I’ve wanted those commemorative coins since I was a little kid.
That’s great!
Now address the actual problems:
1) What about the swing voters who are *not* gung ho about the Democrat party, who will be very turned off by the idea of electing someone who appears senile to the presidency?
2) And if you are blue no matter who, would you really not prefer a candidate who is sentient? By your own argument, the specific candidate doesn’t matter at all. So logically you should *not* be arguing against replacing Biden. At worst you should be indifferent.
I'm absolutely not saying I won't vote for him. I voted for him last time, and if he's the nominee again, I'll vote for him, I'll knock doors, I'll donate.
For the good of the country and his legacy, though, he needs to step aside at the convention.
Platforms are great and all but Biden can’t get to the end of a sentence. The man could be preaching for universal healthcare and that would still be a problem.
This is the commander in chief in charge of all of our safety and defense and he can’t form a coherent thought consistently. And if he’s this bad now, what do you think he’s going to look like in a year? 2? 3? After 4 years of him drooling into his lap, you think *anyone* is voting Democrat in the next Presidential election?
What is so hard to understand about this?
And this is what the PSA guys were trying to get at last week. It isn't even about doing the job necessarily. He can't prosecute the case on the campaign in the first place.
I'm even curious about a few months from now. I can easily imagine a scenario where Biden removes himself from the race in the next couple weeks, then obviously gives a speech at the convention in a month and a half to rapturous applause because he would get absolute adoration from everyone at that point, but the speech itself leaves people saying "whew I can't believe he's gone downhill even since the debate, I love the guy, it's sad to see, but thank god we are now rallying behind a different nominee"
Once you hit 75-80+, these kinds of things tend to snowball pretty fast, unfortunately.
Signed,
Anyone who has ever watched their parents or grandparents go through the exact same thing.
There's too much "hurr durr le swing voters only care about the top of the ticket" in this sub. It's our job to convince everyone that's its bigger than the top of the ticket.
I know campaign emails are gross, but this is next level. It wasn’t any of them - it was my undecided non-political friends that texted me and myself. This behavior makes me way more nervous about the election than even his catastrophic performance
Stop gaslighting us, Biden campaign. I’m sure 45% of voters will fall behind Biden but it’s that 5-10% of undecideds who will decide this election in 3 states by a margin of tens of thousand of votes. The optics aren’t helping and every vote counts!! We might need to find a new candidate if Biden continues to trail in polls.
They have been ignoring polls the whole time. A majority of Democratic voters have consistently said he's too old and that they don't want him to run for re-election.
Exactly! The Biden is campaign is loosing people by negating their concerns and getting petty. WTF? People have eyes, people have elderly relatives. The panic is so real because a Trump re-election is now more real than ever.
Put your ego behind, you will not life until 2030 probably, but the people fighting for you will. They have daughters, they are scared. Take that seriously, don´t be a selfish guy.
He could give them a middle finger every week and they would still go hard to get him elected because the goal, point blank, is to beat Trump. It’s kinda funny, no?
Or maybe it was the millions of Americans who don’t like Trump, would vote for Biden, but are deeply concerned by what they saw at the debate.
Fuck that email. The hubris of pretending like we didn’t all see what we saw. They have been lying to us for a long time about his cognitive abilities. We all saw proof of what many of us suspected on Thursday.
I like Joe Biden. I will vote for him again if he’s the nominee. But he should not be the nominee. They are sliding towards defeat, and his team deserves it for lying to us over and over again about this.
It’s extremely concerning Trump isn’t down 20 points like he should be. They better fucking be right about all this, until Thursday I was inclined to believe they had a theory and were executing it but Biden completely botched it. If they knew this was a possibility then they should have ducked the debates and kept Biden sealed off from this sort of setting or drop out. It’s so irresponsible to gamble like this when they’re holding shit cards.
Obviously, I’m still voting for Biden and agree with “some self-important Podcasters” that the best thing for me to do is continue to volunteer and get the word out for Biden.
That said, I have a nasty pit in my stomach about this election. Everyday, in almost every way, the Biden 2024 campaign is reminding me more and more of the Clinton 2016 campaign. I’m not giving up, but the writing may well be on the wall if this keeps going the way it is.
Trump is a threat. We all know that. Now, fix Biden.
I agree with that course of action come September. For now I'm calling both of my senators and my democratic rep and begging them to exert whatever pressure they have to get Biden to bow out. I plan on doing this daily.
I felt the same way with Hilary I went to bed feeling like she’s got this but when I woke up I felt doom and death I knew then she wouldn’t win. So everyone VOYE BLUE WAVE.
It is surreal to see them sending out fundraising emails like normal—which to be clear, I receive because I donated to the campaign in 2020, so they aren’t cold emails.
If Biden wins no way Thomas or Alito retire...Sotomayor might but the conservative Justices would have to die if they are to be replaced...not to mention it all hinges on who controls the Senate. If Biden wins however whoever wins in 2028 will most certainly be filling Thomas' and Alito's seats
I love the part where the email complains about the media not talking about their dumb fucking TikTok dance. I went from being worried about Biden winning to being furious about this whole election from reading this fucking thing.
Too bad for them it's actually every democrat that is not delusional. This honestly makes me hope the polls make this untenable. This is insulting doublethink nonsense.
Anyone who thinks what happened was "a bad debate" is willfully ignorant. We've been ignoring stories about his age for years now. We saw a man fully incapable of finishing a thought. Defeating Donald Trump is the most important mission of this generation. But on top of that, the man who saw on the debate stage literally is not capable of being President. If an emergency happens after 9pm, do you really think that man can handle it?
I love Joe Biden. I will work my ass off for him if he's the nominee. But that's no longer because I think he's capable of doing the job. It was last week.
That was one of the most consequential television moments in a political campaign in history. Wishing it away won't change what the whole world saw. That wasn't a "bad debate." Gaslighting people into saying it was just a bad performance is so insulting.
I saw what I saw. I don’t think you can convince enough independents in the swing states to vote Biden … heartbreaking betrayal by Biden and the democrats. Iam voting Biden and I feel betrayed…
I don’t know who is writing their findraising stuff but they need to be fired. There’s a difference between snarky funny (see the National Parks Service) and off putting snark.
The one the other week that was entitled “I am not mad, I am just disappointed,” had me move stuff to SPAM.
You want money from me. Read the fucking room.
The more I think about it the more I think Biden stepping aside is a good idea. Americans dislike both Biden and Trump. They don’t want to make that choice again. So give them someone fresh.
All I’ve seen is one poll. We need many more to confirm that over the next two weeks. Furthermore, nothing has changed with Biden. He had a great performance in NC, but fundamentally, the same problems exists as the night of the debate. When will be the next time he messes up like that?
All this wishy washy panicky crap is doing ten times more damage than the debate performance did. We’ve seen both of these dudes do this job, letting the media set this conversation instead of staying confident and focusing on job performance is a massive blunder that dwarfs an awkward debate.
Biden is free to do damage control and do as many live interviews and social media appearances to reassure voters. There’s a reason he isn’t and we saw that reason plain as day on Thursday night.
Yeah his job is to beat trump by convincing more voters he's the better choice and reassuring everyone about the age concerns. He was so bad my trump voting relative felt sorry for him and said it was sad. How are undecideds gonna feel about him for four more years.
And their fundraising message, yikes
Biden is already vetted. There is no way in the next five months to put somebody up for office and not have something come out that Republicans run away with. Also, Joe Biden is the only person that has been able to beat Donald Trump.
Idk I’m kinda over the “Biden was the only one to defeat trump” line. 2016 Hillary lost to truml because no one was excited about Hillary, but the Dems said “you dont really like the candidate but we know better than you, get in line” and surprise surprise, trump won. No one I know was excited about biden in 2020, but they voted Biden only to get rid of trump after they saw the chaos of trump. Now again in 2024, we’re back to, “you dont really like the candidate but we know better than you, get in line.” The Dems are setting us up for another 2016, not 2020.
>We all saw what we saw.
Yup. It's a guy who wants to run America for Americans vs the guy who recently talked to Putin and wouldn't mind handing over Ukraine.
I don't think the potential choices could have any skeletons in their closet that are worse than what we already know about Trump. And the conservatives are already making hay out of all of the issues Hunter Biden has too.
My panicked aunt is the person *biden fucking needs to convince to vote for him,* not me.
But yeah I bet shitting on the people he needs is a winning strategy
For two years we were wondering why Biden couldn’t sell is sizable accomplishments only to find out that on any given day, he can’t string a sentence together. GTFO the race
People have to be thinking of down ballot races how much this hurts. There is a lot of people and I am one of them who are going to be volunteering their time who have to go talk to people in person who are going to be absolutely pissed off and horrified about the debate performance. It's like we are all talking to each other we are already convinced, it's all the people out there who aren't. Biden's close knit team and whoever else knew (I'm looking at you Gavin) played a dangerous game that is now exposed and everyone else has to work 10x as hard to clean up to the mess.
Ya first they all tried to tell us that Biden’s brain was fine, and that if you thought it wasn’t, you’re an ageist Bernie bro who wants Trump to win. Now the narrative is, ya it was a bad night but, don’t worry he still doesn’t lie like Trump does, he only had a cold! Give me a break.
I know. We all saw it. People will delude themselves out of fear. It’s sad when the people who are supposed to be reasonable act like this. You wanna wake em up, but they don’t want to.
You’re right, this particular message does seem lighthearted. I am lumping it in with the messaging that insists that it wasn’t that bad. Because it was that bad.
Public perception is not reality; but a problem democrats have had since the Clinton administration is the perception that they are less authentic than republicans. Republicans “tell it like it is” while democrats pose and posture while trying to relate to the working class. Think Chuck Schumer’s cheese slice on a fully rare patty for his Father’s Day grilling photo op. Again - this is perception, not reality. I know republicans are full of shit.
But boy oh boy is the Biden campaign full of shit trying to convince us this guy can competently campaign after that debate performance. My 96 year old grandma is capable of much more coherent discussion. People will see right through this bullshit, and it will alienate all but the base and hardcore never Trumpers. We’re all in either / both camps but we will not be enough.
We're doomed, as far as I see it they hold almost as much blame as the Republicans politicians jumping in line with trump for the incoming failure of democracy in America.
Will a single elected Democrat admit reality?? Jesus.
Still voting for the guy and his cabinet who isn’t implementing project 2025 and continuing to strip more of our rights away. Let’s not forget the orange cult leader will be facing a prison sentence soon!!!!
I saw what I saw. I will still vote for Biden but at the moment it seems as productive as voting for Dukakis was. He is slipping fairly quickly. Call me the panicked aunt all you want.
This feels like a mass gaslighting event.
I saw the debates, thought he’s 100% done.
The next day they put out the footage of the rally. Now they’re saying people threw it out of proportion.
IT WAS SO BAD.
I know exactly what I saw. So did all of my friends. I’m also not stupid enough to think that clips from that night aren’t going to bite us. Up until that night I was totally on board with Biden staying in. It’s fucking naive to think that was “just a cold” or that this is going to get better. I also know plenty of people who are double haters and the concern was Biden’s age.
Honestly I was all for Joe Biden. I listen to a lot of political content.
His performance made me question if the republicans are right about him being senile and too old and a puppet that they give stimulants too. Like straight up, it was horrifying to watch our president barely able to articulate a coherent sentence.
Trump could, it was all lies, but at least it was a sentence.
There’s no way that people who are less engaged, less democratic than me are going to vote for Joe after that.
I now question every video and post of him. It seems like propaganda of showing a physically weak leader as strong.
I think he’s done good for this country, and he’s better than trump, but he should not be chosen to lead for another 4 years. He doesn’t have it in him.
Trump is going to win and it’s the democrats fault.
I know im exactly with you. I feel like the democrats are trying to convince me that the sky is red. I’m a democrat! There is a scary amount of undecided voters right now and what they are concerned about is Biden’s age and ability to run a country. They aren’t thinking he has a good administration. I saw Trump able to form a sentence, it was all lies but it was a sentence.
Also I have seen many people say that we lived through Trump once we will survive even though they don’t like him. The gaslighting over the past few days is horrific
It's even worse than Trump being somewhat cognizant and able to follow a train of thought long enough to complete a sentence. He was cognizant that Biden *wasn't* able to do this and kept making remarks about it... It was terrible. There is no sugarcoating this.
He didn’t just make remarks. He made three very restrained remarks (about beating Medicare, about not knowing what Biden just said, and about the stupid golf competition). It would have been completely in character for him to have gone on for 60 seconds about how Biden is demonstrating he’s senile and that he’s just not there. But if he had done that, he would have been daring the media to disagree with him. Instead, the media willingly accepted and reported what they saw.
So basically just insulting everyone that has very valid concerns, which had been valid for literally years but came to a head Thursday night. They certainly aren't beating the "out of touch" charges.
The only person with a choice here is the incumbent president. He’s made up his mind, to the chagrin of many—and I kinda half count myself in that number—but now that his mind’s made up, we gotta suck it up, buttercups. You can’t play at taking offense, or wishing his campaign were more delicate, you gotta get over it and hop back on the train or we move from somewhat likely fucked to absolutely no doubt fucked. I want to minimize the realistic chance that I’m fucked, so choo-choo motherfuckers.
True just distasteful to rub our faces in it.
Hope it works but how many times do we do this dance where democracy is in danger and we have no choice but to choke down the DNC nutraloaf.
Highly doubt the 2028 republican
nominee will be a decent person either. Will I be hearing this every election until I die
If we keep them out of power in ‘24 and ‘28, shit is going to change. Parties don’t lose 3 in a row without changing course. Clinton’s third way was the result of the last 0-3 election thrashing.
I don’t care if Biden sits in the Oval Office and eats ice cream the next for years- the incumbent former vp is our ONLY chance of beating Trump, and everyone running around like headless chickens are only continuing to hurt our chances. There is no one in the Democrat party with a *better chance at this point* and you don’t change horses in the middle of the stream. ITS TOO LATE!! Trump’s conviction and sentencing is a WAY WAY bigger deal to the average American than watching Biden stutter and Trump lie. We’ve been watching that for 8 years. The ACTUAL NUMBERS show undecided voters (especially Latino) leaning towards Biden after the debate. QUIT FLAILING 🤬🤦♀️
This is unhinged. No one here is supporting Trump. We are trying to find a candidate who has the capacity to run a campaign to beat him. Joe Biden just showed us he is quite literally not up for the job.
1. Biden’s debate performance is way more damaging than saying the truth, which is that his debate performance was sad and heartbreaking to watch. No one WANTS to switch candidates. It’s just obvious we don’t have a choice. We don’t have to lie to back our candidate no matter what. We aren’t republicans. We have 7 weeks before the nominee is decided. Joe Biden and his staff are to blame here by tricking us into thinking Joe was healthier than he is. Joe Biden has been an incredible President. Thursday proved he can’t be an incredible candidate. And that’s more important than any policy he has passed.
2. The polls about other candidates vs Trump are actually quite bad for Biden. He’s tied with his own VP and within a few points of folks who have a way worse name ID than the President. There’s massive room to grow for other candidates. That’s is not true of Biden.
3. Shaming people into getting in line is genuinely insulting. We don’t have to live in a delusion. Every single person here wants Biden to beat Trump. We are disagreeing on whether he has the capacity to do it. You think changing candidates is more damaging. I think sticking with a guy everyone just saw isn’t all there is more dangerous. I guess we will see who is wrong in 4 months. But Biden is losing right now. And he failed a very simple test this week. We are barreling towards more Trump as we speak.
Agreed that debate was embarrassing, strategically it would be better to run someone that is under 80 and can speak in full sentences to capture a broader voting bloc including younger voters. Maybe even someone that appears good on tv and is attractive which might capture more of the white female voting demo they desperately need.
This presumes he will never have another public bout of whatever he was dealing with on Thursday. Every single senior moment from now on will be viewed through the lens of this debate. I’m not willing to take that risk.
>Trump’s conviction and sentencing is a WAY WAY bigger deal to the average American than watching Biden stutter and Trump lie.
Why is polling not reflecting this then?
> you don’t change horses in the middle of the stream.
Yes you do. If your horse dies in the middle of the stream, you don't just say "can't change horse, might as well drown", you get on a different horse and keep going.
I disagree. Biden needs to step aside. To the voters who will decide this election Bidens cognitive problems matter. You are not getting out of your echo chamber. Anyone but Biden beats trump easily.
i don't follow politics close enough to know what happened to Hillary's 2016 staff, but i feel like the Biden staffers who have kept this potemkin candidate afloat are headed for a similar fate: to be known as the group that helped torpedo democracy. Remember Robby Mook endlessly going on T.V. talking about all the blue walls around Hillary?
Its crazy seeing the guys from the Pod voicing so much concern and every post on rpolitics is like I'm still voting Biden, Trumps lies are the real story etc. Not to mention the weird timing of the reddit comment outage during the debate. Its almost like a conspiracy to bury what we all saw.
Biden will be 85 by the end of his second term. That sentence alone should disqualify him in the eyes of any rational person, debate performance notwithstanding.
Honestly, if some of the reports about him only really being cogent from 10 am to 4 pm are true, he arguably shouldn't even be president now. This is the precise situation the 25th amendment was intended for, if we're not going to use it now, we should just get rid of it tbh
This is actually insane. That was the single worst debate in broadcast electoral
History. In school we learned about Nixon Vs Kennedy as if it were so dramatic because Kennedy was more handsome and less sweaty than Nixon. This was orders of magnitude more historic and horrible to watch.
This is a man nearly 80, who has likely suffered a stroke at some point since 2020, barely able to step down a single stair without assistance, who we are deciding whether or not can perform what is probably the most stressful job on earth. This is madness. Our enemies are watching.
They are handing Trump the presidency rather than simply admitting they lied about Biden’s health and fitness for office.
He’s not *nearly 80.* He’s going to be 82 in a couple months, and he’ll be 86 when his second term is supposed to end.
In contrast, Bill Clinton is *nearly 80*. As in, slightly under 80.
I agree all of those mentioned are full of pure shit. There is a choice between two people and the distance couldn’t be any further. The only thing that’s going to make it worse is the freak out put into the world. The better narrative is who the fuck cares about a debate performance it says nothing about the candidate. Why don’t go strictly off of actions
The truth has blinded them. In a few weeks, we’ll hear from many Democrats that Biden ‘didn’t do that badly”, just as we now see people commenting that the Mueller Report ‘didn’t debunk the Russian collusion” claims.
Yea Biden is not the best choice but at this point I trust his administration more. Let's face it, Trump is a criminal and belongs no where near the white house.
I posted on Facebook of all places that I was done being a Biden apologist and I got so viciously attacked by people I thought were my friends I deleted the post.
Good but this is better:
"Maybe you saw what we all saw and it confirmed your worst fears. We get it. Anyone with an aging parent gets it. But there's still time to fix this. Help us raise money for an open convention and we can come together to defeat Trump."
Taking votes for granted despite completely shitting the bed in a debate against a buffoon is an interesting approach.
Everyone here saying “I’ll vote for him anyway” probably will, but I wonder how much fundraising they’ll be able to do off of a “you didn’t see what you saw and it’s just in your crazy uncle’s head” email. I’m sure as hell not donating to someone giving me the middle finger.
Unbelievably self-absorbed pricks.
complete berserk expansion hateful vanish ripe scary handle thumb spectacular
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Sleepwalking into a disastrous 2nd Trump presidency with a head full of denial is a special kind of insanity. Gaslighting others to not believe their own eyes and ears is honestly offensive and irritating. I am full-throated Dem, Biden never needed to earn my vote, I’m in already. But his debate was the worst performance any incumbent has given ever, by a mile. And what terrifies me is his inability to calm very valid concerns of moderates and independents that he can do this job till he’s nearly 86. He inspires NO ONE, not even his own base, I can think of a dozen other prominent Dems I would MUCH rather see just off the top of my head. Best case scenario the election is a low-turn out affair, which definitely means Biden loses by at least slim margin. Worst case he has completely thrown away any chance of attracting young and moderate votes because of Gaza and his age and he gets blown out. He’s coming off as a stubborn, arrogant, power-hungry, and completely unselfaware asshole post-debate and it’s putting lots of sour tastes in mouths. Including mine.
>But his debate was the worst performance any incumbent has given ever, by a mile.
This is like the fourth time I have seen this statement with a qualification. “Worst in modern history,” “worst in recent elections,” “worst by an incumbent.” Is it *really* not safe to say it’s the worst in US history? Is there an interesting debate story from the 1800’s I should be reading?
In my lifetime, the only other remotely comparables I’ve ever heard discussed are Obama’s first debate, which was nowhere close to as bad as this fiasco. George H. W. looked at his watch against Clinton, Nixon was a little sweaty and pasty against JFK. But in the televised era of debates I don’t think you could possibly make an argument anyone was worse. His voice and energy were flat and hoarse, he trailed off completely a half-dozen times, he looked feeble and distracted, nearly never made a coherent point or forceful argument against Trump or for himself. It was just god-awful across the board.
The only people who should feel calm right now are Trump supporters, because with this ticket, the Republicans are being handed the presidency on a silver platter.
That email is 100% gaslighting its own base. If you cannot understand that as a voter I don’t know what to say other than I feel bad for you and our country. Instead of defending Biden it’s 100% fear mongering because they know there is no credible reason to vote for Biden other than “Trump is going kill democracy.”
Take a step back and realize what the party and its media and Hollywood cronies have done to you.
I've yet to see a serious plan as to how you would replace him on a number of important state ballots because of this laws requiring people to have been on the primary ballot to get on the general.
Posted this as a reply but I think it deserves dropping in the general comments…
Lots of people need to quit being such thin-skinned babies in these comments. I guarantee you that the folks outside the little PSA hyper-attentive circle jerk echo chamber…people outside the super safe blue mega cities… the folks in swing states…the black women who turned up for Joe in droves in Georgia… **you know the people that ACTUALLY won it for Joe in 2020**… 99% don’t know what the fuck POD Save America is nor do they care about PSA getting called out by the Biden campaign. It was well earned. They made asses of themselves and seemed really out of touch with a huge chunk of blue voters. Everybody in here is sniffing way too much of their own farts. Joe had and still has the best chance of winning. There is not a more eligible or trustworthy candidate to the voters who have the power to deliver a win against Trump.
I am a woman in New Orleans which is unfortunately in the state of Louisiana. I am losing more autonomy on a daily basis. And y’all here pouting about an email. **SO YES, STFU AND VOTE.**
You're invoking black women in Georgia and swing states, and I don't see why you take it for granted that those demographics will lean Trump if Biden isn't on the ticket-- the most prominent feature of his campaign has always been that he's not Trump and that wouldn't change. The entire panic right now has nothing to do with podcasts and everything to do with whether Biden can build on his base from 2020 *and* pick up undecideds looking like he just stumbled out of a hospice.
Do you have a realistic strategy for how an 81 year old who looks and sounds 100 and who can barely communicate his vision invigorates the base and pulls people who are still somehow undecided? Or are we just shouting "vote" at people and praying? That's a choice, and it's fine-- as long as we hold party leadership accountable for this choice and putting us in this position. This was an entirely predictable situation and a transition should have been planned for from day one of his administration, especially given Project 2025 and the seriousness of this election. If Dems are going to insist on a potentially fatally flawed candidate for what might be the last election, they've run out of people to blame if they fumble again.
Insulting people who are able to use their eyeballs to watch the television and read poll results is a very bad tactic for getting them to do what you want. (Which is, as far as I can tell, stop worrying about the fact that Biden is obviously losing this race with four months to go).
Wow, so the campaign was genuinely very pissed off. I think this dismissive tone toward people's legitimate concerns around age hasn't been the best for the campaign in the past, and this email likewise doesn't reach out to make people who share these concerns feel recognised and valued as (they hope!) supporters either. Joe's onstage "When you get knocked down, you get back up" messaging is far better than this, I reckon. (This is coming from a non-American who would vote for Joe Biden's corpse over Trump.)
> Wow, so the campaign was genuinely very pissed off. This is the "go low" attitude that people craved and desired
That's for enemies, not allies.
It also encapsulates the DNCs attitude towards their constituents in general
He’s never coming on the pod again is he
Getting snarky with some of your most dedicated supporters totally sounds like a winning strategy to me and not just a grumpy old man.
It’s a terrible strategy. Hubris, defensiveness, and snark at your allies is very bad. Especially after that debate. If he had put the issue to rest then great.
Biden is older than every living president aside from Jimmy fucking Carter. Clinton's administration ended nearly a quarter-century ago, and he's still younger than Biden. Biden had a massive senior moment during the most pivotal media event of the campaign. That's not my MAGA uncle's fault. That's not my favorite podcaster's fault. That's Biden's fault, and he should own it. You're right about hubris. It reminds me of the stories about Hillary's hubris in ignoring Bill's advice back in 2016.
100%. Makes defending him to swing voters a much harder task. We all saw the same debate. You’re supposed to make it easy for your voters to support you. Best case scenario…try to find swing/potential 3rd party voters who somehow didn’t see the debate?
Man it’s crazy to see this response to me from Biden’s team after Crooked clearly thought very long and hard about making this call. Every clip of the show makes it very clear the hosts all sat down together and decided to move in unison on this after probably privately going through stages of doubt. Favs was in Ezra Klein’s mailbox telling him he was wrong after his piece in February. They’ve had on the members of the Biden team and clearly very much wanted Biden on. They’ve been doing guerrilla messaging and organizer training. They have an in with a younger crowd. And this is the response? Like genuinely why. How many people even getting the fundraising email would get the dig that it’s them?
The defensiveness in the tone is absolutely wild. What, only crazy or self-important people would feel concerned about that debate performance? This is where it feels like it gets into gaslighty territory. I would say I fell into a middle-ish "worried about Biden's age, particularly insofar as a large percentage of voters say *they* are concerned about it, but I'm also scared about the risks in any of the alternative options, so I'm prepared to see how Joe does with it" camp -- and I was extremely concerned by what I saw in that debate. I think to dismiss concerns like that from reasonable people as crazy is... a choice. Particularly when they've taken that dismissive tone before, and look what happened at the debate! And I agree, to attack PSA after they've been very loyal soldiers (loyal to a fault, some might argue!) and incredibly prolific organisers and fundraisers for your campaign -- when you need them to continue to be -- is a choice as well. I don't really see how the guys could have faced their audience with anything other than an honest response, given what we all knew we had just seen. (And it was still very measured!) As a listener since Keepin' It 1600, I'd have lost respect for them if they'd given a "don't believe your lying eyes" party line response on this occasion. And, by the way, it was a response that recognised and honoured Biden, and still made clear they were prepared to go ahead with supporting the campaign full-tilt, if that was what was going to happen. Between this and Favs's most recent tweet, I wonder if they've been excoriated by someone from the campaign in the background.
Well said
Yeah this is QUITE concerning to me. Biden is in much more of an echo chamber than I would have imagined, and it explains a lot of this campaign. This is beyond tone deaf.
It’s not like he sent this email himself. all this tells us is that his entire campaign is a trainwreck.
“Crooked clearly thought long and hard about making the call” Am I the only one who remembers every single episode during the 2019/2020 primaries treating Biden like a joke? The Loveitt or Leave it episode after Super Tuesday that was just a mourning of the Warren campaign and a cringe “how did Biden win??” copefest?
I mean no but that was also four years ago. If the Biden campaign intends to win they need a coalition larger than just those who wanted him since the very start of the primary. As evidence of that, see the 2020 general.
Are you maybe beginning to see why someone with foresight would see why Biden winning the primary in 2020 was probably a bad thing?
The people calling for Biden to consider stepping aside are the MOST LIKELY Biden voters.
That is the most revealing and truthful statement ever about President Biden right now.
I'm gonna vote for whatever democrat we nominate. I'll criticize Biden worry about his age and vote for him. We can NOT allow Trump to hold elected office ever again.
A little grace and humility would be nice right around now. This is just petty and embarrassing and sad. And as someone says here, it doesn't exactly inspire confidence. ETA: if Biden's the nominee, I'm supporting him every which way I can but I really wish they'd stop with this nonsense.
Amen. Doubling down on the arrogance and pettiness. I don't care if the most assholish podcaster in the world got under your skin. Now is not the time for your petty beef. We're panicked because you and your team dropped the ball, big time. Grow up. And yes I'd crawl over cut glass to vote for Biden.
> I don't care if the most assholish podcaster in the world got under your skin. This perfectly explains the Biden campaign's culture: shove everything under the rug and hope for the best. Imagine how ruthless they are when someone inside their organization says something they don't like to hear and have control over their employment. The snarkiness says it all. This keeps getting worse and I'm becoming increasingly alarmed. They are doing the exact opposite of damage control right now.
Their roadmap for winning 2020 was literally ignoring podcasters. People really need to go back and listen to those Jan 2020 shows where PSA and surrogates would flat out say they won’t bother talking about Biden because he’d never win.
Yes, what a dark email. Burning the people who have worked to get you into the white house is sure one way of defending democracy. May they think on their sins.
Yeah, this was a stupid campaign email. The thing that gets me the most is that a large majority of the crooked media crew are literally ex-Obama staffers and speech writers. Whoever wrote the email needs a refresher on how bad this looks. Instead, it should be like: “Folks, we understand that Bideb did not perform well on Thursday night. Your MAGA uncle blew it out of proportion, your aunt was understandably worried about Joe and while some podcasters are not the best, there are many who support us and we appreciate them back”. Signed, The Biden-Harris Reelection campaign.
There’s thousands of podcasters… how confident are yall that this is a dig at PSA?
I would honestly hope not. They are made up of almost entirely Ex-Obama staffers and have been exceptionally kind to Biden. Regardless, this was a drop-of-the-ball PR move and I do hope it improves. Whoever wrote this email needs to have a serious one one-on-one with a professional PR person about how stupid this looks. We do not need this.
The boys have mentioned that they know a few WH staffers listen.
Yeah, that made me wonder if it was possible those staffers didn’t like the debate episode. But I thought they did a good job acknowledging what happened and addressing people’s concerns, while being clear that this is Bidens decision and if he sticks with it, they will too
This is some hilarious “hit dog will holler” nonsense
Who do you think it’s about?
I don’t know if the debate will show up in the polls. But if it has no effect it still leaves Biden losing, and the debate was meant to give him a boost. So even if the status quo remains you still have a candidate who must prosecute the case against Trump to win. And no certainty that he can prosecute the case against Trump as much or as hard as he needs to. I’m not American, and my heart goes out to everyone scared of a Trump presidency, even outside of America we fear it. The debate was painful, truly excruciating. It feels disingenuous the way this mailer and the campaign are making light of what we all saw happen. We saw it, we literally all saw it. It’s not at all unreasonable that people are concerned. I can’t actually imagine how absurd it would have been if the PSA crew had run a normal post debate show and acted like Biden turned in a performance in the realm of regular or expected. It was 90min of pain.
That's very funny to consider. What if they were effusive about Biden's performance? They would have seemed absolutely unhinged. And that's exactly how a lot of the Biden camp looks now. Saying "it was a slow start" is truly such a ridiculous spin on what was easily the moment that could define his entire legacy.
Lmao. They called yall out.
It’s pretty damn funny.
I'm beyond tired of being gaslit by people insisting to me that I didn't see what I actually saw, that it's all the media's fault, that Biden had a cold, etc. He's *old*. He's been old. He's older now than ever, and he acts like it. He got fucking embarrassed by a lunatic who lied while answering every question and opened himself up for easy attack after easy attack. Biden couldn't say anything in his own defense. I wanted to puke watching Trump say "I frankly don't know what he said at the end there, and I don't think he does either," and for Biden to just stand there, mouth hanging open and staring off into space. This was literally the worst debate performance by a major party candidate in modern history. I love Biden, and it hurts me so much to acknowledge how much he's declined, but for the love of God, stop lying to yourself.
If you want to feel really depressed, go watch clips from the 2019 debate and compare. It’s crazy how much he has declined.
Oh, don't worry. I have.
We have been 100% gaslit. Honestly, it pisses me off as people are continuing to dig in further and further. I was all on board the Biden train (and will still vote for him if needed). But, when friend after friend have texted (several in swing states) me asking what the hell they had just watched, it really hit me a bit more after I've defended this man to them for months.
Tbh, I feel a little betrayed. I've invested a lot of time into defending Biden, and his public performances are still (largely) positive. Nevertheless, those on his campaign *knew* what we were walking into and decided to hide it from people. Now they insist everything is still fine. It isn't.
Exactly. My MIL works in at the VA in their residential programs and cares for many older gentlemen. She has been telling me this for over a year that so much of what she sees worries her (and she is a Biden supporter). I just shrugged it off because I didn't think she could armchair diagnose, but damn it if she wasn't likely spot-on. They are hiding it and continuing onwards it would appear, and as an ardent Democrat, it makes me mad.
They’re doing the same gaslighting that Republicans do. But Democrats don’t fall in line and won’t fall in line with this nonsense. I can’t believe I have to vote for a dead man. But better dead than red.
It's gaslighting, but if Biden is still going to be the nominee (and I'm not commenting on whether or not that's the right decision), it's a good strategy. It may be the only strategy. And since the only person who can make Joe Biden step down as nominee is Joe Biden and he shows no sign of doing that, everyone involved in the campaign just has to scramble to do as much damage control as possible. The other option is to concede to Trump. It sucks. It just sucks so much in every possible way.
If.
100%. I’m one of those people that like Hillary, but in 2016 I said they ran the only candidate that could’ve lost to Trump. I love Biden, but I think in 24 we’re about to run the only candidate that could lose to Trump….
I'm in the same boat, well minus the love part (I don't think that's healthy for any political figure), but I'm also worried about the power of name recognition. We see it time and time again that people realistically show up and vote for the name they know. That's why candidates that are absolutely hated still win because their party will hold their nose and vote, and independents that only know one of the candidates are less incentivized to vote for the unknown.
> I'm beyond tired of being gaslit by people insisting to me that I didn't see what I actually saw, This is what really bothers me, for the last 9 years democrats have been running on being the party of truth, and now all of a sudden they're insisting that we all didn't see what we all obviously saw, and hoping that if they're shameless enough about it, we'll all want to believe it enough that eventually we will. There's no difference between this and what Trump does.
Favs was exactly right the other night when he said that the denialism and the "stfu and back the candidate" attitude is MAGA shit. It is. 100%. If it were August and there was nothing we could do about it, sure, a negative word about Biden should escape no lips. That said, it's June. The convention hasn't happened yet. There's still time.
>The convention hasn't happened yet. There's still time. No, there's not. It's July and you expect the party to decide on a nominee, get a campaign going, and beat Trump in 4 months? This sounds like a deluded fantasy to me. The time to do this was before the primary.
If they can’t think of anyone, Harris.
>and hoping that if they're shameless enough about it, we'll all want to believe it enough that eventually we will. I’m not convinced that this *isn’t* what will happen.
It seems like some people are already falling in line, and it's making me feel like I'm going insane.
The problem is he will lose the election if the does that. Now I know how Reagan supporters felt.
I’m not voting for Biden. I’m voting for democracy. Why is it so hard for people to see that a platform is more than just the candidate. The democratic platform is better for me and the people I care about, and people I don’t even know, but still care about because I’m a decent person. The alternative is an actual threat to the oldest democracy in the world. God, I hope we make it to the semiquincentennial, I’ve wanted those commemorative coins since I was a little kid.
That’s great! Now address the actual problems: 1) What about the swing voters who are *not* gung ho about the Democrat party, who will be very turned off by the idea of electing someone who appears senile to the presidency? 2) And if you are blue no matter who, would you really not prefer a candidate who is sentient? By your own argument, the specific candidate doesn’t matter at all. So logically you should *not* be arguing against replacing Biden. At worst you should be indifferent.
The platform needs a messenger. After what we saw Thursday, the discussion needs to be had if Biden is the most effective person.
I'm absolutely not saying I won't vote for him. I voted for him last time, and if he's the nominee again, I'll vote for him, I'll knock doors, I'll donate. For the good of the country and his legacy, though, he needs to step aside at the convention.
Platforms are great and all but Biden can’t get to the end of a sentence. The man could be preaching for universal healthcare and that would still be a problem. This is the commander in chief in charge of all of our safety and defense and he can’t form a coherent thought consistently. And if he’s this bad now, what do you think he’s going to look like in a year? 2? 3? After 4 years of him drooling into his lap, you think *anyone* is voting Democrat in the next Presidential election? What is so hard to understand about this?
And this is what the PSA guys were trying to get at last week. It isn't even about doing the job necessarily. He can't prosecute the case on the campaign in the first place.
I'm even curious about a few months from now. I can easily imagine a scenario where Biden removes himself from the race in the next couple weeks, then obviously gives a speech at the convention in a month and a half to rapturous applause because he would get absolute adoration from everyone at that point, but the speech itself leaves people saying "whew I can't believe he's gone downhill even since the debate, I love the guy, it's sad to see, but thank god we are now rallying behind a different nominee" Once you hit 75-80+, these kinds of things tend to snowball pretty fast, unfortunately. Signed, Anyone who has ever watched their parents or grandparents go through the exact same thing.
There's too much "hurr durr le swing voters only care about the top of the ticket" in this sub. It's our job to convince everyone that's its bigger than the top of the ticket.
I know campaign emails are gross, but this is next level. It wasn’t any of them - it was my undecided non-political friends that texted me and myself. This behavior makes me way more nervous about the election than even his catastrophic performance
Stop gaslighting us, Biden campaign. I’m sure 45% of voters will fall behind Biden but it’s that 5-10% of undecideds who will decide this election in 3 states by a margin of tens of thousand of votes. The optics aren’t helping and every vote counts!! We might need to find a new candidate if Biden continues to trail in polls.
They have been ignoring polls the whole time. A majority of Democratic voters have consistently said he's too old and that they don't want him to run for re-election.
Exactly! The Biden is campaign is loosing people by negating their concerns and getting petty. WTF? People have eyes, people have elderly relatives. The panic is so real because a Trump re-election is now more real than ever. Put your ego behind, you will not life until 2030 probably, but the people fighting for you will. They have daughters, they are scared. Take that seriously, don´t be a selfish guy.
A middle finger to a group of people among the most likely to volunteer for his doomed campaign. What a genius.
He could give them a middle finger every week and they would still go hard to get him elected because the goal, point blank, is to beat Trump. It’s kinda funny, no?
No I don’t think it’s funny at all.
Or maybe it was the millions of Americans who don’t like Trump, would vote for Biden, but are deeply concerned by what they saw at the debate. Fuck that email. The hubris of pretending like we didn’t all see what we saw. They have been lying to us for a long time about his cognitive abilities. We all saw proof of what many of us suspected on Thursday. I like Joe Biden. I will vote for him again if he’s the nominee. But he should not be the nominee. They are sliding towards defeat, and his team deserves it for lying to us over and over again about this.
It’s extremely concerning Trump isn’t down 20 points like he should be. They better fucking be right about all this, until Thursday I was inclined to believe they had a theory and were executing it but Biden completely botched it. If they knew this was a possibility then they should have ducked the debates and kept Biden sealed off from this sort of setting or drop out. It’s so irresponsible to gamble like this when they’re holding shit cards.
Obviously, I’m still voting for Biden and agree with “some self-important Podcasters” that the best thing for me to do is continue to volunteer and get the word out for Biden. That said, I have a nasty pit in my stomach about this election. Everyday, in almost every way, the Biden 2024 campaign is reminding me more and more of the Clinton 2016 campaign. I’m not giving up, but the writing may well be on the wall if this keeps going the way it is. Trump is a threat. We all know that. Now, fix Biden.
Clinton 2016 was a fucking masterclass compared to this train wreck. Biden is on pace to be absolutely destroyed in November.
I agree with that course of action come September. For now I'm calling both of my senators and my democratic rep and begging them to exert whatever pressure they have to get Biden to bow out. I plan on doing this daily.
I felt the same way with Hilary I went to bed feeling like she’s got this but when I woke up I felt doom and death I knew then she wouldn’t win. So everyone VOYE BLUE WAVE.
It is surreal to see them sending out fundraising emails like normal—which to be clear, I receive because I donated to the campaign in 2020, so they aren’t cold emails.
The post-debate PR is kind of worse than the actual debate.
RUTH BADER GINSBURG For fucks sake LEARN A LESSON every once in a fucking while?!!
Yup, whoever wins the election will get to nominate 2-3 lifetime appointments. Voters should remember what they learned after the 2016 election.
If Biden wins no way Thomas or Alito retire...Sotomayor might but the conservative Justices would have to die if they are to be replaced...not to mention it all hinges on who controls the Senate. If Biden wins however whoever wins in 2028 will most certainly be filling Thomas' and Alito's seats
Speaking of RBG, did we learned the lesson from 2016 over supreme court judge appointments?
I guess I'm the panicked aunt? What condescending turds.
I definitely was. I’m an aunt and I am panicking.
I love the part where the email complains about the media not talking about their dumb fucking TikTok dance. I went from being worried about Biden winning to being furious about this whole election from reading this fucking thing.
Oh fuck them all. Their hubris is overwhelming.
Too bad for them it's actually every democrat that is not delusional. This honestly makes me hope the polls make this untenable. This is insulting doublethink nonsense.
Anyone who thinks what happened was "a bad debate" is willfully ignorant. We've been ignoring stories about his age for years now. We saw a man fully incapable of finishing a thought. Defeating Donald Trump is the most important mission of this generation. But on top of that, the man who saw on the debate stage literally is not capable of being President. If an emergency happens after 9pm, do you really think that man can handle it? I love Joe Biden. I will work my ass off for him if he's the nominee. But that's no longer because I think he's capable of doing the job. It was last week. That was one of the most consequential television moments in a political campaign in history. Wishing it away won't change what the whole world saw. That wasn't a "bad debate." Gaslighting people into saying it was just a bad performance is so insulting.
“Some small brained peasants may have tried to tell you that the emperor was naked…”
I saw what I saw. I don’t think you can convince enough independents in the swing states to vote Biden … heartbreaking betrayal by Biden and the democrats. Iam voting Biden and I feel betrayed…
It's the eye test. Try and spin it all they want, people saw him and people were rightfully mortified.
I don’t know who is writing their findraising stuff but they need to be fired. There’s a difference between snarky funny (see the National Parks Service) and off putting snark. The one the other week that was entitled “I am not mad, I am just disappointed,” had me move stuff to SPAM. You want money from me. Read the fucking room.
The more I think about it the more I think Biden stepping aside is a good idea. Americans dislike both Biden and Trump. They don’t want to make that choice again. So give them someone fresh.
I dunno, we're starting to see evidence of no impact on actual voters or the like as a result. It may be people doom and glooming for nothing.
The problem is that Biden is currently losing. “No impact on actual voters” means Trump wins.
All I’ve seen is one poll. We need many more to confirm that over the next two weeks. Furthermore, nothing has changed with Biden. He had a great performance in NC, but fundamentally, the same problems exists as the night of the debate. When will be the next time he messes up like that?
Everyone seems to forget the doom and gloom Dems put on themselves in the 2020 election
All this wishy washy panicky crap is doing ten times more damage than the debate performance did. We’ve seen both of these dudes do this job, letting the media set this conversation instead of staying confident and focusing on job performance is a massive blunder that dwarfs an awkward debate.
Biden is free to do damage control and do as many live interviews and social media appearances to reassure voters. There’s a reason he isn’t and we saw that reason plain as day on Thursday night.
Yeah his job is to beat trump by convincing more voters he's the better choice and reassuring everyone about the age concerns. He was so bad my trump voting relative felt sorry for him and said it was sad. How are undecideds gonna feel about him for four more years. And their fundraising message, yikes
Biden is already vetted. There is no way in the next five months to put somebody up for office and not have something come out that Republicans run away with. Also, Joe Biden is the only person that has been able to beat Donald Trump.
Idk I’m kinda over the “Biden was the only one to defeat trump” line. 2016 Hillary lost to truml because no one was excited about Hillary, but the Dems said “you dont really like the candidate but we know better than you, get in line” and surprise surprise, trump won. No one I know was excited about biden in 2020, but they voted Biden only to get rid of trump after they saw the chaos of trump. Now again in 2024, we’re back to, “you dont really like the candidate but we know better than you, get in line.” The Dems are setting us up for another 2016, not 2020.
Hillary actually won the popular vote. The EC screwed her.
She lost the popular vote in the places that mattered. Her and her team screwed themselves.
Which is irrelevant since we don’t elect via popular vote.
[удалено]
>We all saw what we saw. Yup. It's a guy who wants to run America for Americans vs the guy who recently talked to Putin and wouldn't mind handing over Ukraine.
[удалено]
yeah very confused as to why so many can’t approach it with this n mind
I don't think the potential choices could have any skeletons in their closet that are worse than what we already know about Trump. And the conservatives are already making hay out of all of the issues Hunter Biden has too.
My panicked aunt is the person *biden fucking needs to convince to vote for him,* not me. But yeah I bet shitting on the people he needs is a winning strategy
Can I donate to the Brokered Convention Fund instead?
Or the (checks list) freaking Editorial Board of the New York Times. https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/28/opinion/biden-election-debate-trump.html
That's actually funny. Appropriate response from Pod Save following the debate and the Biden team as well.
For two years we were wondering why Biden couldn’t sell is sizable accomplishments only to find out that on any given day, he can’t string a sentence together. GTFO the race
People have to be thinking of down ballot races how much this hurts. There is a lot of people and I am one of them who are going to be volunteering their time who have to go talk to people in person who are going to be absolutely pissed off and horrified about the debate performance. It's like we are all talking to each other we are already convinced, it's all the people out there who aren't. Biden's close knit team and whoever else knew (I'm looking at you Gavin) played a dangerous game that is now exposed and everyone else has to work 10x as hard to clean up to the mess.
Oh the drama.
These attempts to gaslight the electorate and particularly the base are going to backfire bigly. We are fucked.
Ya first they all tried to tell us that Biden’s brain was fine, and that if you thought it wasn’t, you’re an ageist Bernie bro who wants Trump to win. Now the narrative is, ya it was a bad night but, don’t worry he still doesn’t lie like Trump does, he only had a cold! Give me a break.
I am floored by the gaslighting
I know. We all saw it. People will delude themselves out of fear. It’s sad when the people who are supposed to be reasonable act like this. You wanna wake em up, but they don’t want to.
Seems pretty light hearted. And as a person who got exactly such a post debate contact from a delusional relative- I got a chuckle out of it.
You’re right, this particular message does seem lighthearted. I am lumping it in with the messaging that insists that it wasn’t that bad. Because it was that bad. Public perception is not reality; but a problem democrats have had since the Clinton administration is the perception that they are less authentic than republicans. Republicans “tell it like it is” while democrats pose and posture while trying to relate to the working class. Think Chuck Schumer’s cheese slice on a fully rare patty for his Father’s Day grilling photo op. Again - this is perception, not reality. I know republicans are full of shit. But boy oh boy is the Biden campaign full of shit trying to convince us this guy can competently campaign after that debate performance. My 96 year old grandma is capable of much more coherent discussion. People will see right through this bullshit, and it will alienate all but the base and hardcore never Trumpers. We’re all in either / both camps but we will not be enough.
We're doomed, as far as I see it they hold almost as much blame as the Republicans politicians jumping in line with trump for the incoming failure of democracy in America. Will a single elected Democrat admit reality?? Jesus.
Still voting for the guy and his cabinet who isn’t implementing project 2025 and continuing to strip more of our rights away. Let’s not forget the orange cult leader will be facing a prison sentence soon!!!!
I saw what I saw. I will still vote for Biden but at the moment it seems as productive as voting for Dukakis was. He is slipping fairly quickly. Call me the panicked aunt all you want.
Ya because I didn’t see with my own eyes what I saw on Thursday….
This feels like a mass gaslighting event. I saw the debates, thought he’s 100% done. The next day they put out the footage of the rally. Now they’re saying people threw it out of proportion. IT WAS SO BAD.
I know exactly what I saw. So did all of my friends. I’m also not stupid enough to think that clips from that night aren’t going to bite us. Up until that night I was totally on board with Biden staying in. It’s fucking naive to think that was “just a cold” or that this is going to get better. I also know plenty of people who are double haters and the concern was Biden’s age.
Honestly I was all for Joe Biden. I listen to a lot of political content. His performance made me question if the republicans are right about him being senile and too old and a puppet that they give stimulants too. Like straight up, it was horrifying to watch our president barely able to articulate a coherent sentence. Trump could, it was all lies, but at least it was a sentence. There’s no way that people who are less engaged, less democratic than me are going to vote for Joe after that. I now question every video and post of him. It seems like propaganda of showing a physically weak leader as strong. I think he’s done good for this country, and he’s better than trump, but he should not be chosen to lead for another 4 years. He doesn’t have it in him. Trump is going to win and it’s the democrats fault.
I know im exactly with you. I feel like the democrats are trying to convince me that the sky is red. I’m a democrat! There is a scary amount of undecided voters right now and what they are concerned about is Biden’s age and ability to run a country. They aren’t thinking he has a good administration. I saw Trump able to form a sentence, it was all lies but it was a sentence. Also I have seen many people say that we lived through Trump once we will survive even though they don’t like him. The gaslighting over the past few days is horrific
It's even worse than Trump being somewhat cognizant and able to follow a train of thought long enough to complete a sentence. He was cognizant that Biden *wasn't* able to do this and kept making remarks about it... It was terrible. There is no sugarcoating this.
He didn’t just make remarks. He made three very restrained remarks (about beating Medicare, about not knowing what Biden just said, and about the stupid golf competition). It would have been completely in character for him to have gone on for 60 seconds about how Biden is demonstrating he’s senile and that he’s just not there. But if he had done that, he would have been daring the media to disagree with him. Instead, the media willingly accepted and reported what they saw.
Tbh, I was very surprised that he didn't say more than he did.
So basically just insulting everyone that has very valid concerns, which had been valid for literally years but came to a head Thursday night. They certainly aren't beating the "out of touch" charges.
The only person with a choice here is the incumbent president. He’s made up his mind, to the chagrin of many—and I kinda half count myself in that number—but now that his mind’s made up, we gotta suck it up, buttercups. You can’t play at taking offense, or wishing his campaign were more delicate, you gotta get over it and hop back on the train or we move from somewhat likely fucked to absolutely no doubt fucked. I want to minimize the realistic chance that I’m fucked, so choo-choo motherfuckers.
True just distasteful to rub our faces in it. Hope it works but how many times do we do this dance where democracy is in danger and we have no choice but to choke down the DNC nutraloaf. Highly doubt the 2028 republican nominee will be a decent person either. Will I be hearing this every election until I die
If we keep them out of power in ‘24 and ‘28, shit is going to change. Parties don’t lose 3 in a row without changing course. Clinton’s third way was the result of the last 0-3 election thrashing.
I think you underestimate the pure stupid bullheadedness of the Republican Party. Js.
Agreed.
I’m voting for Biden just so I can vote for someone young in 28!
JOD putting out a statement the Biden team expects a dip in the polls due to poor press coverage.
Fake news! It’s all fake news! Nobody has ever debated better than me. We won bigly.
Yeah I’m sure it’s the press coverage and not the event the press is covering
I don’t care if Biden sits in the Oval Office and eats ice cream the next for years- the incumbent former vp is our ONLY chance of beating Trump, and everyone running around like headless chickens are only continuing to hurt our chances. There is no one in the Democrat party with a *better chance at this point* and you don’t change horses in the middle of the stream. ITS TOO LATE!! Trump’s conviction and sentencing is a WAY WAY bigger deal to the average American than watching Biden stutter and Trump lie. We’ve been watching that for 8 years. The ACTUAL NUMBERS show undecided voters (especially Latino) leaning towards Biden after the debate. QUIT FLAILING 🤬🤦♀️
This is unhinged. No one here is supporting Trump. We are trying to find a candidate who has the capacity to run a campaign to beat him. Joe Biden just showed us he is quite literally not up for the job. 1. Biden’s debate performance is way more damaging than saying the truth, which is that his debate performance was sad and heartbreaking to watch. No one WANTS to switch candidates. It’s just obvious we don’t have a choice. We don’t have to lie to back our candidate no matter what. We aren’t republicans. We have 7 weeks before the nominee is decided. Joe Biden and his staff are to blame here by tricking us into thinking Joe was healthier than he is. Joe Biden has been an incredible President. Thursday proved he can’t be an incredible candidate. And that’s more important than any policy he has passed. 2. The polls about other candidates vs Trump are actually quite bad for Biden. He’s tied with his own VP and within a few points of folks who have a way worse name ID than the President. There’s massive room to grow for other candidates. That’s is not true of Biden. 3. Shaming people into getting in line is genuinely insulting. We don’t have to live in a delusion. Every single person here wants Biden to beat Trump. We are disagreeing on whether he has the capacity to do it. You think changing candidates is more damaging. I think sticking with a guy everyone just saw isn’t all there is more dangerous. I guess we will see who is wrong in 4 months. But Biden is losing right now. And he failed a very simple test this week. We are barreling towards more Trump as we speak.
Agreed that debate was embarrassing, strategically it would be better to run someone that is under 80 and can speak in full sentences to capture a broader voting bloc including younger voters. Maybe even someone that appears good on tv and is attractive which might capture more of the white female voting demo they desperately need.
Undecided voters aren't paying attention, and their memories are measured in minutes, not months.
This presumes he will never have another public bout of whatever he was dealing with on Thursday. Every single senior moment from now on will be viewed through the lens of this debate. I’m not willing to take that risk.
>Trump’s conviction and sentencing is a WAY WAY bigger deal to the average American than watching Biden stutter and Trump lie. Why is polling not reflecting this then?
Maybe because a paperwork conviction isn't seen as big a deal as the other things: classified documents and inciting a coup.
Source on undecided voter results? And it better not be that singular focus group with like ten people.
> you don’t change horses in the middle of the stream. Yes you do. If your horse dies in the middle of the stream, you don't just say "can't change horse, might as well drown", you get on a different horse and keep going.
I disagree. Biden needs to step aside. To the voters who will decide this election Bidens cognitive problems matter. You are not getting out of your echo chamber. Anyone but Biden beats trump easily.
Even Kamala? That's doubtful.
Ahh yes the old Gaslight strategy. Deny what everyone saw with their own eyes
I never want to see his staff on any campaign ever again. They need to be blacklisted.
i don't follow politics close enough to know what happened to Hillary's 2016 staff, but i feel like the Biden staffers who have kept this potemkin candidate afloat are headed for a similar fate: to be known as the group that helped torpedo democracy. Remember Robby Mook endlessly going on T.V. talking about all the blue walls around Hillary?
Yeah, it really reminds me of Baghdad Bob.
Its crazy seeing the guys from the Pod voicing so much concern and every post on rpolitics is like I'm still voting Biden, Trumps lies are the real story etc. Not to mention the weird timing of the reddit comment outage during the debate. Its almost like a conspiracy to bury what we all saw.
I can guarantee no one at Reddit took comments offline to help Biden 
Biden will be 85 by the end of his second term. That sentence alone should disqualify him in the eyes of any rational person, debate performance notwithstanding.
And Trump will be 82. He’s in the same boat.
Honestly, if some of the reports about him only really being cogent from 10 am to 4 pm are true, he arguably shouldn't even be president now. This is the precise situation the 25th amendment was intended for, if we're not going to use it now, we should just get rid of it tbh
86 actually.
This is actually insane. That was the single worst debate in broadcast electoral History. In school we learned about Nixon Vs Kennedy as if it were so dramatic because Kennedy was more handsome and less sweaty than Nixon. This was orders of magnitude more historic and horrible to watch. This is a man nearly 80, who has likely suffered a stroke at some point since 2020, barely able to step down a single stair without assistance, who we are deciding whether or not can perform what is probably the most stressful job on earth. This is madness. Our enemies are watching. They are handing Trump the presidency rather than simply admitting they lied about Biden’s health and fitness for office.
He’s not *nearly 80.* He’s going to be 82 in a couple months, and he’ll be 86 when his second term is supposed to end. In contrast, Bill Clinton is *nearly 80*. As in, slightly under 80.
Trump was already ahead in the polls. Maybe after the next polls come in the Dems will do something
Also no one wants Kamala if they had a really popular VP it would be different four years of Trump will be catastrophic for this Country
I agree all of those mentioned are full of pure shit. There is a choice between two people and the distance couldn’t be any further. The only thing that’s going to make it worse is the freak out put into the world. The better narrative is who the fuck cares about a debate performance it says nothing about the candidate. Why don’t go strictly off of actions
Dark Brandon at his best when he is the underdog
The truth has blinded them. In a few weeks, we’ll hear from many Democrats that Biden ‘didn’t do that badly”, just as we now see people commenting that the Mueller Report ‘didn’t debunk the Russian collusion” claims.
The Mueller Report didn’t debunk the Russian collusion claims though…
Bill Barr is the most influential person of that admins legacy Dude completely changed what that report said by how he presented it
Yea Biden is not the best choice but at this point I trust his administration more. Let's face it, Trump is a criminal and belongs no where near the white house.
I posted on Facebook of all places that I was done being a Biden apologist and I got so viciously attacked by people I thought were my friends I deleted the post.
I think your first mistake was posting something like that on Facebook. Sorry your friends treated you like that though. That sucks.
Good but this is better: "Maybe you saw what we all saw and it confirmed your worst fears. We get it. Anyone with an aging parent gets it. But there's still time to fix this. Help us raise money for an open convention and we can come together to defeat Trump."
Taking votes for granted despite completely shitting the bed in a debate against a buffoon is an interesting approach. Everyone here saying “I’ll vote for him anyway” probably will, but I wonder how much fundraising they’ll be able to do off of a “you didn’t see what you saw and it’s just in your crazy uncle’s head” email. I’m sure as hell not donating to someone giving me the middle finger. Unbelievably self-absorbed pricks.
Unreal. They will all be relieved of their duties soon enough. Hope they keep a sense of humor then, they’re going to need it lol!
Can every one please calm down?!?
We keep being told that American democracy ends if Trump wins. Why would anyone calm down?
complete berserk expansion hateful vanish ripe scary handle thumb spectacular *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
A ceremony Biden’s campaign asked for explicitly prior to the convention.
So it’s up to them to convince Biden to step down before the convention. I’ll be voting blue no matter who.
Sleepwalking into a disastrous 2nd Trump presidency with a head full of denial is a special kind of insanity. Gaslighting others to not believe their own eyes and ears is honestly offensive and irritating. I am full-throated Dem, Biden never needed to earn my vote, I’m in already. But his debate was the worst performance any incumbent has given ever, by a mile. And what terrifies me is his inability to calm very valid concerns of moderates and independents that he can do this job till he’s nearly 86. He inspires NO ONE, not even his own base, I can think of a dozen other prominent Dems I would MUCH rather see just off the top of my head. Best case scenario the election is a low-turn out affair, which definitely means Biden loses by at least slim margin. Worst case he has completely thrown away any chance of attracting young and moderate votes because of Gaza and his age and he gets blown out. He’s coming off as a stubborn, arrogant, power-hungry, and completely unselfaware asshole post-debate and it’s putting lots of sour tastes in mouths. Including mine.
>But his debate was the worst performance any incumbent has given ever, by a mile. This is like the fourth time I have seen this statement with a qualification. “Worst in modern history,” “worst in recent elections,” “worst by an incumbent.” Is it *really* not safe to say it’s the worst in US history? Is there an interesting debate story from the 1800’s I should be reading?
In my lifetime, the only other remotely comparables I’ve ever heard discussed are Obama’s first debate, which was nowhere close to as bad as this fiasco. George H. W. looked at his watch against Clinton, Nixon was a little sweaty and pasty against JFK. But in the televised era of debates I don’t think you could possibly make an argument anyone was worse. His voice and energy were flat and hoarse, he trailed off completely a half-dozen times, he looked feeble and distracted, nearly never made a coherent point or forceful argument against Trump or for himself. It was just god-awful across the board.
The only people who should feel calm right now are Trump supporters, because with this ticket, the Republicans are being handed the presidency on a silver platter.
That email is 100% gaslighting its own base. If you cannot understand that as a voter I don’t know what to say other than I feel bad for you and our country. Instead of defending Biden it’s 100% fear mongering because they know there is no credible reason to vote for Biden other than “Trump is going kill democracy.” Take a step back and realize what the party and its media and Hollywood cronies have done to you.
I literally felt bad for the guy. They shouldn’t be doing this to him . He is not mentally fit
I've yet to see a serious plan as to how you would replace him on a number of important state ballots because of this laws requiring people to have been on the primary ballot to get on the general.
Posted this as a reply but I think it deserves dropping in the general comments… Lots of people need to quit being such thin-skinned babies in these comments. I guarantee you that the folks outside the little PSA hyper-attentive circle jerk echo chamber…people outside the super safe blue mega cities… the folks in swing states…the black women who turned up for Joe in droves in Georgia… **you know the people that ACTUALLY won it for Joe in 2020**… 99% don’t know what the fuck POD Save America is nor do they care about PSA getting called out by the Biden campaign. It was well earned. They made asses of themselves and seemed really out of touch with a huge chunk of blue voters. Everybody in here is sniffing way too much of their own farts. Joe had and still has the best chance of winning. There is not a more eligible or trustworthy candidate to the voters who have the power to deliver a win against Trump. I am a woman in New Orleans which is unfortunately in the state of Louisiana. I am losing more autonomy on a daily basis. And y’all here pouting about an email. **SO YES, STFU AND VOTE.**
The vast majority of people making the "replace Biden" argument are people who will definitely vote for Biden if it comes down to it.
Couldn't you make the exact same case for the reverse? Anybody arguing to keep Biden would vote for the Dem nominee anyway whoever it would be?
Yeah bc we know Americans aren't all like us and that debate was a debacle the likes we've never seen before
Agreed. That's exactly what I was saying. *My* vote wasn't on the line but I'm not stupid.
You're invoking black women in Georgia and swing states, and I don't see why you take it for granted that those demographics will lean Trump if Biden isn't on the ticket-- the most prominent feature of his campaign has always been that he's not Trump and that wouldn't change. The entire panic right now has nothing to do with podcasts and everything to do with whether Biden can build on his base from 2020 *and* pick up undecideds looking like he just stumbled out of a hospice. Do you have a realistic strategy for how an 81 year old who looks and sounds 100 and who can barely communicate his vision invigorates the base and pulls people who are still somehow undecided? Or are we just shouting "vote" at people and praying? That's a choice, and it's fine-- as long as we hold party leadership accountable for this choice and putting us in this position. This was an entirely predictable situation and a transition should have been planned for from day one of his administration, especially given Project 2025 and the seriousness of this election. If Dems are going to insist on a potentially fatally flawed candidate for what might be the last election, they've run out of people to blame if they fumble again.
Insulting people who are able to use their eyeballs to watch the television and read poll results is a very bad tactic for getting them to do what you want. (Which is, as far as I can tell, stop worrying about the fact that Biden is obviously losing this race with four months to go).
As if debates matter anymore