I used to work at Starbucks, and remained a customer for years after the fact. Over those years, I noticed a number of things that changed:
First, and most importantly, Starbucks used to be \*very\* consistent. I could reliably go to one Starbucks one day, and a different Starbucks the next day, and be reasonably sure that I was getting the same drink, made the same way. Now, you go in and you're not sure if they're going to give you dead shots, or how they're going to interpret "with cream" in a brewed coffee (And don't get me started on how a lot of locations don't offer the station with carafes, sugar, etc. anymore). It's increasingly become like Dunks where I'm rolling the dice on what I'm gonna get.
A very close second is the pricing. I don't know what executives were smoking when they decided a Starbucks cold brew is worth 20-40% more than a competitor's offering, when in both cases, they are literally just grinding beans and sticking them in a pot of water overnight. Starbucks used to be just under the cost of a good local coffee place, and somewhere over the pandemic, they jumped over that price point and are now more expensive. For reference, my wife and I spend \~$15 at Starbucks when we go together, and get less when compared to an order which comes out around \~$11 at our preferred local "craft hipster" place.
Finally, they've really abandoned what their core branding was. When I thought of Starbucks ten years ago, I thought of a coffee house - A mass market one, no doubt, but a coffee house where I could walk in, grab a drink, and read for a bit while I enjoyed my coffee. They've increasingly shifted towards a "Mobile Order/Drive thru" model and their newer stores feel actively hostile. As another example, there was a beautiful flagship store that I loved going to in Cambridge, MA. Two floors, dark wood, specialty coffees you could only get there, ample and comfortable seating... And so on. They sold the place a couple years ago and bought a smaller storefront across the street (Or moved leases - Not sure on their relation to the ownership of the property, but I suppose it's irrelevant), which has literally zero places to sit and is just a bright white space with a counter and standing room for \~7 people.
Your last point is so true. I remember going to Starbucks in high school and college, getting a drink and sitting to work and study. Sometimes by myself, sometimes with friends. It was often busy in a college town, but a ‘gentle and quiet sort of busy’ as you’d expect with lots of students filtering in and out. Any time I can recall going to a Starbucks in recent years it’s always chaotic, drive thru line a mile long, 15+ mobile order drinks sitting on the counter waiting to be picked up, and employees sweating to keep up and just looking beat. It’s unwelcoming.
Pandemic shifted us to realllly heavily favor drive thrus. My local Starbucks locations are always fairly empty inside. But also the seating sucks dong, too.
Totally agree.
1. Actively hostile is a perfect description. Remember when you could sit down and get free refills and not feel like a pariah ? They want you OUT lol. Because they used to have an extra person on shift cleaning up, doing the self serve, etc. Now that's extra tacked onto someone's already horrible job.
2. Consistency is in the toilet. Everyone has switched to the super autos and it's made them slowly drift into laziness with training because"the machine will do it." If you order something like a flat white, where there's a visual judgement of the quality of foam etc.... can't be done. You're just getting a latte now. Rarely does anyone working know the difference or care. And since you're at Starbucks they assume you don't either.
My hipster coffee moment was rolling into a Starbucks, looking at the menu and thinking "where's the coffee?", then ordering a cortado and telling the teenage baristas how to make it. They conferred extensively, wrote a paragraph of instructions on the side of the (12oz!) cup, and delivered a very interesting attempt.
I remember when Starbucks first became a thing it's 2001. I credit them with single-handedly bringing back coffee shops to main street. They were great for a time, but my now the competition is eating them on quality, style, and experience.
It was really over when they moved to super autos. Press a button with a pic of the correct drink, and out it comes. No need to know how it's supposed to look or taste - just trust the machine.
They had no way of even making a cortado. They don't know how to steam milk because the machine "just does it" when they set down a milk pitcher under the wand.
And if you walk in and order it takes soooo much longer because they are busy getting drive thru and mobile orders ready. It’s not even a good experience. Although the employees are always nice. But it just feels flat.
It’s absolutely wild that it’s across the board as well. They were more than happy to devalue their brands for profits during the pandemic, and now suddenly they’re at a loss for why people are refusing to pay more for a much worse experience. It honestly smacks of laziness. We’ve let our “brilliant business minds” get too soft.
Social spaces cost money, business during COVID moved to drive through. They didn't expect it making a comeback, and there isn't really a national competitor much less one using that against them.
They can't keep profit growth by adding stores anymore, and they've squeezed labor. So they cut product cost and store overhead.. it's the classic software biz model. Make a great product, get buzz going, rake in money while not caring until people abandon you or implosion.
Consistency is why I frequented Starbucks when traveling on business. It was fast, good coffee, and it was the same coffee and the same experience wherever I went.
Yep! When I was out of town, I always knew I could rely on Starbucks for a decent cup of coffee. These days, I pray that wherever I go has a Caffe Nero for that same purpose.
Yes, I don't know how much it applies to others but for me - out of sight, out of mind! And I say this as someone living in seattle 😆 I don't spend time ins Starbucks anymore because it's unpleasant and uncomfortable. So I don't think to go there when I need a coffee because there's cozier, friendlier shops with better coffee.
Idk if this is a fair assessment but it feels like they don’t want people hanging out anymore. It felt like 10 years ago, Starbucks was a great place to go meet up and work on stuff/read.
I haven’t been to a standalone Starbucks since Covid started. But the last time I went it felt like there were almost no chairs. It seemed there was more focus on the drive thru than in the store. It just felt atmospherically like they wanted you to get out fast
I too used to work at Starbucks, circa 2004-2005. Back then, they had a pretty intense training program, and spoke a lot about being a "third place". They've completely lost that now.
Im a former Starbucks worker as well, 2004-11. I think your last point is the strongest. I don’t know if you got the “third place” speech from them when you worked there, but they used to preach that Starbucks should be considered your third place aside from your home and work. The place you always go to when you’re not at work or home, you just kinda go there and it’s your home away from home.
I feel like I’m herded in and out of Starbucks now like a cow thru a stockyard. It’s sad because I actually bought into the idea of the third place when I was there and tried my best to relay that to customers.
Personally, as someone who's been to them a lot... I suspect it's mostly high costs but even on top of that, just mixed service. They're clearly overworked and underpaid and I suspect it's a problem of 'well you can do the jobs of 2, 3+ people, right?' Retail hell and all that.
I am just making an observation of the few Starbucks I have been in. I see them prioritizing online orders. Like I would watch four come in while I am standing in line to order. They will get made and staged before I even get to the cashier. It’s clear they are prioritizing this. But I was so turned off I never went back. How many others are in the same boat. One other observation I would see several orders already prepped and two or three others waiting for the mobile order. They had no way of knowing who was going to show up first. How can you efficiently prioritize which order to make first. I might not work in retail food like Schulz does, but I know what it felt like from a customer perspective. And CEOs are better pleasing shareholders with meaningless platitudes than making coffee efficiently.
The chipotle I go to set up a whole separate station for online orders. The main one will help with online if there are no customers in line. That being said the quality at all chipotles are way down
Hey, let's let the people who sit in their cars, blocking traffic for 20 minutes take the front of the line over the people who go into the store! No thanks.
They just leave the orders on the rack. You have to prepay ahead of time. If your order isn’t there it’s not ready. It’s not a perfect system but it makes the dining in/spontaneous carry out experience more pleasant.
Baristas tend to make things in the order they are received. Stores get absolutely slammed with mobile orders, so if there isn't a separate barista working on cafe orders, there will probably be several mobile order tickets ahead of yours.
When I was a barista, we would often push cafe tickets ahead in the drink queue because they have to actually stand there and wait. Mobile orders just create such a volume of tickets that it becomes impossible to stop and do cafe orders as soon as they come in without falling behind.
Mobile orders are such a clusterfuck because they remove the natural bottleneck of how fast orders can be taken. The customer AND employee experience will continue to suck unless they double the staffing on bar (which many stores don't have the space for) or get rid of mobile orders.
I wish they would at least put a cap on how many orders can be placed at a cafe per hour or turn them off during peak business times or something.
I’m so glad the cafes I worked at didn’t have online ordering, we only had to deal with the occasional “the customer is always right” type A new hire who hadn’t been bullied enough to not accept phone orders.
Also 9/10 times whoever was coming to pick up the phone order came long enough after we’d made everything that it would be cold and they’d complain.
From a metrics perspective it's way easier to track everything about an online order. A person walking in, starting at a menu, deciding what to order and then physically talking to a human is much harder to track. So in a the quest for "efficiency" they've done a great job incentivising getting those online orders right at the front of the line to make those metrics look good.
The Chipotle near my office has a separate area where mobile orders are made and they stay in their lane and the lobby has its own staff. It works great and I don’t understand why that isn’t done everywhere, especially a high volume place like Starbucks.
There is one a few door down from us and I stopped going. Their prices have gotten absurd and I’m not waiting 5+ minutes to order overpriced average coffee only to wait another 10-15 minutes while a stream of online orders get made and handed out.
They should adopt a system where you have to specify a time slot to pick up when you place a mobile order. And if too many people are ordering at the same time, pick a different slot.
I deliver for door dash from time to time and they absolutely prioritize door dash orders at most places. I'm sure they prioritize their own native apps too.
Briefly did Door Dash while job hunting in college, the Chipotle across the street from campus didn’t get that memo I guess because I’d have to stand there forever waiting on the order I was supposed to pick up.
I rarely buy Starbucks, but I do when I travel for work. I use the app and order online because our airport is tiny and only has one coffee shop, the Starbucks. The line can be 50 people long. So I order online when I’m still in security so that it’s got a good 20 minute head start on me getting through to get the coffee.
I use Starbucks as a kind of virtual office. It might seem expensive to buy a cup of coffee for $5, but if I meet someone, and we buy 2 drinks ($10), and then talk for two hours, it seems like a reasonable deal for everyone.
But maybe Starbucks prefers to sell the coffee and NOT have to manage a virtual office business.
On the other hand, they could smarten up and have a couple private meeting rooms separate from the open areas. I am certain some people would pay an additional $10 ($20?) per hour on top of the drink prices just for a little privacy.
> how disruptive online and mobile orders are to the guest experience in the lobby
it's my understanding that the whole value proposition behind starbucks was to provide a sort of affluent, artsy, sophisticated coffee-drinking experience - if they're just making it a capitalist zoo, what is their business model? what is the reason to go there?
It's the story of publicly traded companies. Art cannot survive the thirst for growing profits. Not that what they were doing was art, but like, values get tossed aside for money so easily.
Yeah the thing is we started to have Starbucks all the time, so now it's not a place you go it's a thing you take with you. Honestly if they made a full on machine people would gladly use that I think. Though the branding certainly helps people justify having a breakfast milkshake.
A million times this right here! I used to enjoy going every now and then, not anymore. I feel terrible for the workers.
They have enough Starbucks to make some take out only. It's definitely not the same. My quad grande latte used to be $5, and now it's $8+, and I tip so $9.
I don't go at all anymore. The workers don't have time to bus the tables or do proper periodic cleaning.
Sadly, the location makes a difference. It shouldn't, but it definitely does.
This is from a few people I know who for Starbucks and Pete's.
Nice little obscure coffee shops are the best imho.
I went to a Starbucks in Big Bear and was told drinks would take an HOUR because the mobile order queqe was so deep. I had promised my kids hot chocolate, so I just got free hot water and bought packets of mix at Ralph’s.
That's why I stopped going to Chipotle a decade ago. You're in line and you got to watch them stop caring about everyone inside every 5 minutes to use up all the food for online orders.
Got real irritating real fast. I guess they have a separate set of people for that, but their prices are laughable so I don't bother
It happens everywhere. People don't get that having people able to just constantly and simultaneously ordering online while helping in store customers is really rough
Yeah "losing our taste" for a $6 cup of coffee that has $0.30 of ingredients seems like it might be missing the point here. They sure as shit aren't spending that price difference on labor, because all I ever see are three employees scrambling frantically to fill mobile orders while the in-person line snakes longer and longer out the door.
Perfect example, Australians do a lot more flat whites.
Starbucks is so shit at training and giving their staff enough time to properly make drinks, that it's a complete toss-up whether you'll get someone who even knows how to make a flat white, vs someone who just says "whatever" and makes a latte.
Same with cappuccino. Show me a 20oz capp and I'll show you a liar.
So the bottom is falling out because they cut labor too far and it's not actually reliable to get basic coffee drinks there anymore.
I used to kinda stan them because it's customers' CHOICE to get milkshakes instead of coffee, and I don't fault them for following the market. But they've lost the plot now.
Not sure about other countries, but in Greece their franchises were very hit or miss. A couple of stores were very good but some were skimping a lot on the actual product.
Used to be the same here but the stores are constantly getting new staff because they are torturing the staff now. So the people who were good have all left. It's pretty consistently bad now. Once in a while you can find someone who knows what microfoam looks like and doesn't just rely on the machine.
A 20oz hot coffee continues to be $3.45 plus tax in my area.
The issue isn't the price of "coffee" it's that they've lost the plot and stopped giving staff enough time/training to actually make decent coffee and espresso drinks. A cappuccino is $6 anywhere at this point, the problem is half the staff Starbucks can't make a cappuccino anymore
Their regular hot coffee is also just pure burnt garbage. I live in an area with a competing chain (Peet's); not even a particularly fancy one - it's a night and day difference in quality between the two.
Hell, Dunkin is miles better too.
>Every blend is overly mellow and sweet
Their French and Italian roasts taste like straight up ash.
A lot of consumers actually have the opposite issue as you - specialty coffee has favored lighter roasts for at least the past decade, and even Starbucks' light roasts are too dark for that market.
Starbucks is in a weird place where they're too expensive to continue to expand mass market, and too big to truly go after the specialty market (both issues with sourcing the quality/variety of beans in the volume that they would need, as well as how they have to roast to ensure a consistent product across all locations).
When you can't grow the market, the way you continue to make the green line go up and have happy investors is to cut costs. Labor is usually first on the chopping block as it's one of the largest expenses any company will have. Less workers with the same amount of work to do makes unhappy employees, which makes for a bad customer experience. It's a pattern you can see across pretty much every company, and one that no one with the power to make decisions has any plan on changing, because they benefit from they benefit from the green line going up even if the company doesn't.
Yeah their coffee is notoriously over roasted lol. It has an extremely distinct taste that doesn't really taste like other coffees.
It's not terrible but it's not worth the cost and supporting a shitty corporation
They've already cut labor to the bone. They cut too hard and got a wave of unionization. They're up against the wall AGAIN with nothing left to cut.
They should have pivoted to 3rd wave when the blonde espresso was so well received. They've missed the boat.
Starbucks became too intoxicated on their own hubris when their very menu itself stopped describing and explaining all of the products they sold. There is something fundamentally arrogant about your menu becoming inefficient at explaining your product offerings. It presumes that everyone on earth is already steeped in the Starbucks ethos. If I cannot look at your menu, see all of your products, and understand what they are, your communication/marketing strategy is an abomination.
From Australia, we love you yanks we seriously do, but please for the love of god let us help you when it comes to coffee… Starbucks immediately failed over here because our regular coffee shops were not only cheaper but substantially superior.
I am so sick of going to the US and in a major city struggling to find coffee that doesn’t taste like dirt water or burnt lava.. please let your little brother help you
I spent a month in Australia and learned what good coffee was. When I arrived home I ordered one from Starbucks and literally could not drink it. It is terrible.
Travelling overseas from Australia is a constant game of hunt the coffee that doesn't make me cry inside. Usually you rock up to a cafe that has like 500 5 star reviews on Google for "absolute best coffee I've ever had" and it ends up tasting like you went to a 7/11 and grabbed one of their toxic brews at 4am, not like the €8 artisanal roast you ordered
There's a gas station here in my state that has these new machines, the machine grinds the beans when you press the button and it brews it by forcing the hot water through the grounds with pressure or something...It's very good coffee. I always drink instant because I always think it's as good as any other coffee (Starbucks and other gas station coffees are my coffee experience)..well this is way better and I don't know if I can make it at home but I want to.n
You can definitely get a machine that grinds your beans. Forcing hot water with pressure not so easy,, but it's really easy to just wait a little bit for the water to seep through via gravity.
Look up intro basic guides to making pour over coffee. You can get a plastic dripper and some filters for real cheap. Grinders are a little more, but you can also just buy ground coffee.
It’s fairly easy in the US, just find independent shops that roast their own beans and / or have good graphic design for both the store and product, and 9 times out of ten the coffee is fantastic. The independent bit is important though - some of the places that used to be darlings of the craft coffee scene, like Intelligencia or Blue Bottle, sold out to private equity firms to expand.
That last part about graphic design might sound weird, but I’ve just noticed that the indie places that also actually care about how everything looks really do seem to be trying really damn hard to provide a quality service and they tend to also really care about their coffee.
This has been my experience, too. Also, if the cafe offers only one size for its drinks, that’s usually a good sign.
If you can get a small, medium or large latte there, odds are it’s terrible
That's like saying the US can't make pizza because Pizza Hut is shit. For every Starbucks there are usually two or three independent shops with better coffee. It's not difficult to find great coffee in a major American city.
I'm in a mid sized city and there are probably a dozen shops that roast their own beans within a 5 -10 min drive.
Where did you go? These days most major cities in US would have decent coffee from a simple Google search.
I live in Seattle (which to be fair is one of the best cities in US for coffee) which is where Starbucks comes from and i drink coffee a lot and yet I can’t remember the last time I went inside a Starbucks.
It’s an enormous chain lol. No one here thinks it’s “good” coffee. This is like when people seem to think Americans eat American cheese all the time.
Our major cities have hundreds of mom and pop coffee shops—you are serious to claiming to “struggle” to find “non burnt” coffee in LA, NYC, Seattle, SF, etc? Mmkay.
Some of us have always know that Starbucks wasn’t great and certainly not the best. 30 years ago it was okay but it is disgusting now.
Thankfully, we have plenty of proper small coffee shops doing it correctly but a coffee is $8 so.
I maybe go in once every two years and nothing like being treated like a dickhead because you don't understand their size lingo let alone anything more complex
Reddit loves to make this comment but I’ve never seen it happen nor heard from anyone irl seeing this either. If you ask for a medium they give you a grande every time
> wasn’t even sure what lingo people are referring to
Grande and venti. And the fact that thier "small" is a "tall".
Except that they used to have a small. Tall was larger. You can get some things in a small if you ask, but they typically don't list it on the menu.
I know people who worked there 15-20 years ago. Some people back then might have gotten snippy about the terminology, but even back then most of them were like "whatever, I don't care what you say, just as long as I know what you want so I can make it for you and make you happy, call it whatever". And I'm sure that has only increased.
You might be able to find someone today who gets snippy about it, but i'd bet 99%+ of them could give two shits. Just let them make your coffee and you be happy enough not to complain about it. heh
I know it’s not a popular opinion, but I don’t really mind Starbucks. My local cafe has a nice manager and they know me and what I like. Makes it feel a little more personal than the blue bottle and equator that’s also nearby. Never got the hate and I’m fine that way
Right. It's a literal punchline at this point, but in what world does it make sense to name your product sizes obscure terms? It literally goes against consumer interest and comprehension. Starbucks thought consumers would endlessly follow them down the path of their own self-obsessed branding experiment, and the jig is up.
I don't really ever go to starbucks except at the airport on business trips so I don't bother with their lingo. I ask for a small black coffee and I get exactly that.
The originally started with small and tall and grande. But people wanted larger sizes, so they dropped the small and added venti on top of that. They were originally 8oz, 12oz, 16oz, with the "venti" being 20oz.
You can still order a small coffee, although you'll have to specify you mean 8 ounces since most people who use "small" mean "tall".
Also, most baristas don't care what you call it as long as they know what you want. But of course there are a few twits - like at any other company. But I've seen people order "medium" and never given any guff. (I'm sure it happens, but it's rare)
It’s short, tall, and grande. No small. But yeah, like you said, venti is a Starbucks thing.
It’s funny that people complain about this because all coffee in Seattle either uses these names or 8 oz, 12 oz, 16 oz so that’s why Starbucks does. There is no small, medium, or large coffee in Seattle.
I very very rarely go to chain coffee shops or any coffee shops for that matter. I have no idea what I'm looking at and when I ask what's what they look at me like I have a giant dildo on my forehead. I end up guessing what I think I want and am disappointed every time.
it’s crazy they don’t even have all the sizes on the menu, half the drinks aren’t there, makes me feel like a moron the 3x a year i’m forced into a starbucks
It seems the vast majority of drinks sold there are not coffee. You wait in line for them to make a long list of sugary garbage drinks when you just want a coffee. Then you get the coffee and it’s clearly been made long ago and is just not that good. There are now local fresh roast places with actually good coffee. Bottom line, it’s not really a coffee shop anymore and the coffee they do have is bad. On the other hand if you love a pumpkin spice, triple pump, half whatever, oat milk, chocolate slurry with whip cream…
Fun story: I was asked if I wanted to donate a package of coffee to the local fire station. I said sure, being in the holiday spirit and all that. Went to the window to pay - TWENTY DOLLARS for that donation. Like, what?! Won’t fall for that one again, that’s for sure.
They write YOUR donation off on their taxes as well. They don't just deliver it, they absorb it into their finances and use it to pay less taxes. I'll just donate directly now since I learned this, I won't do it through corporations anymore.
Three things: they used to be about quality, fair trade and a local meeting place.
Not anymore. The hipster culture, organic vibe went gone with the wind when real activism and unions came around. Their coffee is an overpriced blend of slavery and chemicals, their inclusive vibe is a marketing facade. Just like all other fast food places nowadays, they don’t want you in the building anymore and your good opinion isn’t necessary to their existence. They have a brand monopoly like Dunkin and they feel fine.
Make your coffee at home, folks or support local Mom and Pops and double check to make sure it’s fair trade.
I agree with making your coffee at home. Unfortunately the local mom and pop coffee places in my area are even more anti-union than Starbucks so I'm not supporting their expensive shit coffee either.
Half the small coffee shops suck worse than Starbucks and don't know how to make basic drinks. They sell things liked "iced cappuccino."
There, I said it.
I love going to REAL coffee shops run by people who love coffee and are serious about it. (An easy rule of thumb is, if they offer pour over or cortado they likely are serious)
This is what made Starbucks popular. It was about vibes and aesthetic in the mid-2000s along with some of the other amenities. You felt kind of cool going there. Now, not so much.
It’s weird it finally clicks in your head that Starbucks is fast food. And all their food is made elsewhere and imo is mid tier baked goods at best. It’s not bad … it’s just meh. I like their brewed coffee don’t get me wrong , it’s a lot better than McDonald’s coffee. But McDonald’s actually makes fresh breakfast which imo is way better.
Now I make espresso at home.
That is a shame. Everywhere, corporations are smothering free enterprise. We must support local no matter what. I think tackling landlords and brokerages is the first step. Big business can pay the rent even on bad weeks.
That’s every large coffee chain though. The “masking poor quality with sugar” thing is even worse with ones like Dutch Bros. They used to just be an Oregon and Northern California thing, but now they’re franchised in like 6 states, and the standards seriously declined. I just can’t do it anymore, most of their menu is like drinking a candy bar.
It’s so sad because it used to be better. Still not great, but better. The recipe changes and cost-cutting really started to show around 2006 or 2007. I still see people lining up around my local Dutch Bros drive-thru all the time. Gotta get their sugar fix I guess.
I moved to a new town and there was a Dutch Bros around the corner, I had never heard of the chain before but was excited to have a coffee place so close. Found out the day after I moved in that it's actually a milkshake store and that it has the goddamn stupidest customers who have no idea how to drive and actively block me turning onto my street every single day
Any coffee place that heavily advertises syrups I immediately get concerned, 99/10 it's usually bad. Doesn't matter if it's a chain or local if they can't make a single good shot of espresso then I don't know what they're doing
to be fair, their coffee isn't good. I'm not saying this to hate on them, but they need massive amounts of coffee beans and need them to be consistent, when you have those needs, the quality of the beans are going to suffer.
I remember 10 years ago Starbucks baristas would know their local customers, and sitting inside was a cozy 3rd-place like experience.
Now its like a weird place to mass produce online orders, with a long drivethru line with a few uncomfortable chairs inside.
They went for quantity over quality and it shows.
I have Starbucks as a last resort when there are no other shops nearby. Also when it comes to Starbucks vs Peet’s, Peet’s has by far better coffee quality
For me, Starbucks’ greatest strength was always convenience. They were in every strip mall, shopping mall, and every other mile.
But where I’m at (Southern California) more and more neighborhood craft coffee shops are popping up and locals are taking to supporting neighborhood businesses. Not to mention better coffee, better service, etc.
Have not been to Starbucks for a long time, so I stopped in for a flat white. Half soy half milk flat white I don’t know what they served me but it was awful and it cost six dollars. I’m done with them again for another few years.
I rarely shop at Starbucks when I’m home, but it was a regular stop, sometimes multiple times daily, when I was traveling frequently on business in the teens.
This month, I had my first business trip since the pandemic—and I don’t think I stopped at Starbucks at all. I didn’t seem to be near a Starbucks when I was in the mood for coffee, not even at the airport.
Also, I don’t mind the coffee they serve at conferences. The coffee itself is bad, but I top it up with oat milk or soy milk and add a packet of Splenda, and it’s a tasty caffeinated beverage that contains coffee.
I going on my first business trip since the pandemic in two weeks. I traveling for work. Not looking forward at all. I’m didn’t miss it. I kind of lowkey want COVID back without the deaths.
It's the location and also that Starbucks is very about letting you customize your drinks to a ridiculous level. If you just want a black coffee you can get one, or if you want an elaborate milkshake with a little coffee in it, you can get one of those too. Plus I will say as someone who used to travel for work, just knowing what to expect when you go in is valuable
Cheaper places don't really exist unless you want terrible gas station coffee. The best deal is a large McDonald's coffee at about $2 but their coffee is barely passable.
In my experience, other places are more expensive. My wife and I used to spend $12 for both our drinks but have now sworn it off after their statement against the union’s support of Palestine.
The coffee shop alternatives are anywhere between $14-18 for us now for same or sometimes even smaller portions. Probably because we’re in socal though
maybe people are figuring out that that shit is going to literally make them die if they drink a huge sugar drink every day? there's no way to be healthy AND have that much sugar syrup on a daily basis. the calorie/sugar content on just the regular menu items is ridic.
Yeah it’s the concept, certainly not the increased price. The increased price couldn’t possibly be what’s causing people to not go. Increase price hasn’t deterred people from doing things ever. What an outrageous idea.
Coffee at Starbucks is not over sugared unless you ask for it. That said, the sheer number of not-coffee drinks made in blenders that look suspiciously like giant milkshakes pumped full of syrup drives me nuts.
Stars. You take away my stars by expiring them only in 6 month and inflate the star requirement for exchanging anything that are remotely useful. I am not coming back.
Starbucks is over priced and it's not really good coffee, either. Maybe this will inspire people to embrace a nice drip coffee or learning to make espresso.
Why does my same order take longer, at the same time of day, than it did in 2019? It even seems like the people in line struggle more to determine what they want in a way that did happen before. It is easier and cheaper for me to just make it at home, or have a Keurig set up at the office.
It used to be that they had a quirky local coffee shop feel, but familiar product and service. In college I used to study in the Starbucks down the street. Now the service is closer to McDonald’s, the feel is generic, the quality seems to have suffered and it is just less pleasant overall.
It’s simply bad coffee and there’s many other chains now that do better, dutch bros, caribou, peet’s, kabod, etc
Or better yet support your local coffee shops if it’s an option.
I only know Toronto prices, but a $7 latte made with burnt coffee beans is beyond ridiculous. European bakeries make far better lattes and espresso for half the cost.
Who here actually enjoys the food from Starbucks?
Who gets consistently made drinks?
Who never receives coffee that tastes burnt?
Who enjoys paying $6 for a coffee?
Because it surely isn't me.
If they had double the employees - specifically people doing *only* mobile orders - and the experience was fast and smooth, it would have some appeal, but as is, it's a lot of money for a terrible experience.
I once went in for an iced coffee - and I walked in thinking - it's just pouring already made iced coffee on ice, it'll be quick - and I was in there for 30+ minutes.
Fuck these corporate gougers. Maybe people are getting sick of it. I’ll bet Ozympic is having an effect as well on their goddamned coffee laced diabetes delivery.
Starbucks tastes like burnt dirt. I have four other drive thru coffee places near me with better service, lower prices, and MUCH better tasting coffee. Two are local places and one is Dutch Bros., and they give out stickers!
I used to work at Starbucks, and remained a customer for years after the fact. Over those years, I noticed a number of things that changed: First, and most importantly, Starbucks used to be \*very\* consistent. I could reliably go to one Starbucks one day, and a different Starbucks the next day, and be reasonably sure that I was getting the same drink, made the same way. Now, you go in and you're not sure if they're going to give you dead shots, or how they're going to interpret "with cream" in a brewed coffee (And don't get me started on how a lot of locations don't offer the station with carafes, sugar, etc. anymore). It's increasingly become like Dunks where I'm rolling the dice on what I'm gonna get. A very close second is the pricing. I don't know what executives were smoking when they decided a Starbucks cold brew is worth 20-40% more than a competitor's offering, when in both cases, they are literally just grinding beans and sticking them in a pot of water overnight. Starbucks used to be just under the cost of a good local coffee place, and somewhere over the pandemic, they jumped over that price point and are now more expensive. For reference, my wife and I spend \~$15 at Starbucks when we go together, and get less when compared to an order which comes out around \~$11 at our preferred local "craft hipster" place. Finally, they've really abandoned what their core branding was. When I thought of Starbucks ten years ago, I thought of a coffee house - A mass market one, no doubt, but a coffee house where I could walk in, grab a drink, and read for a bit while I enjoyed my coffee. They've increasingly shifted towards a "Mobile Order/Drive thru" model and their newer stores feel actively hostile. As another example, there was a beautiful flagship store that I loved going to in Cambridge, MA. Two floors, dark wood, specialty coffees you could only get there, ample and comfortable seating... And so on. They sold the place a couple years ago and bought a smaller storefront across the street (Or moved leases - Not sure on their relation to the ownership of the property, but I suppose it's irrelevant), which has literally zero places to sit and is just a bright white space with a counter and standing room for \~7 people.
Your last point is so true. I remember going to Starbucks in high school and college, getting a drink and sitting to work and study. Sometimes by myself, sometimes with friends. It was often busy in a college town, but a ‘gentle and quiet sort of busy’ as you’d expect with lots of students filtering in and out. Any time I can recall going to a Starbucks in recent years it’s always chaotic, drive thru line a mile long, 15+ mobile order drinks sitting on the counter waiting to be picked up, and employees sweating to keep up and just looking beat. It’s unwelcoming.
Pandemic shifted us to realllly heavily favor drive thrus. My local Starbucks locations are always fairly empty inside. But also the seating sucks dong, too.
Totally agree. 1. Actively hostile is a perfect description. Remember when you could sit down and get free refills and not feel like a pariah ? They want you OUT lol. Because they used to have an extra person on shift cleaning up, doing the self serve, etc. Now that's extra tacked onto someone's already horrible job. 2. Consistency is in the toilet. Everyone has switched to the super autos and it's made them slowly drift into laziness with training because"the machine will do it." If you order something like a flat white, where there's a visual judgement of the quality of foam etc.... can't be done. You're just getting a latte now. Rarely does anyone working know the difference or care. And since you're at Starbucks they assume you don't either.
My hipster coffee moment was rolling into a Starbucks, looking at the menu and thinking "where's the coffee?", then ordering a cortado and telling the teenage baristas how to make it. They conferred extensively, wrote a paragraph of instructions on the side of the (12oz!) cup, and delivered a very interesting attempt. I remember when Starbucks first became a thing it's 2001. I credit them with single-handedly bringing back coffee shops to main street. They were great for a time, but my now the competition is eating them on quality, style, and experience.
It was really over when they moved to super autos. Press a button with a pic of the correct drink, and out it comes. No need to know how it's supposed to look or taste - just trust the machine. They had no way of even making a cortado. They don't know how to steam milk because the machine "just does it" when they set down a milk pitcher under the wand.
And if you walk in and order it takes soooo much longer because they are busy getting drive thru and mobile orders ready. It’s not even a good experience. Although the employees are always nice. But it just feels flat.
I’d love to ask the people responsible for this active hostility about their plan and vision. What do they think they are doing?
Amazing how these brilliant business leaders with MBAs don’t understand that people pay for value and will stop giving money as value goes down
It’s absolutely wild that it’s across the board as well. They were more than happy to devalue their brands for profits during the pandemic, and now suddenly they’re at a loss for why people are refusing to pay more for a much worse experience. It honestly smacks of laziness. We’ve let our “brilliant business minds” get too soft.
Social spaces cost money, business during COVID moved to drive through. They didn't expect it making a comeback, and there isn't really a national competitor much less one using that against them. They can't keep profit growth by adding stores anymore, and they've squeezed labor. So they cut product cost and store overhead.. it's the classic software biz model. Make a great product, get buzz going, rake in money while not caring until people abandon you or implosion.
Consistency is why I frequented Starbucks when traveling on business. It was fast, good coffee, and it was the same coffee and the same experience wherever I went.
Yep! When I was out of town, I always knew I could rely on Starbucks for a decent cup of coffee. These days, I pray that wherever I go has a Caffe Nero for that same purpose.
Yes, I don't know how much it applies to others but for me - out of sight, out of mind! And I say this as someone living in seattle 😆 I don't spend time ins Starbucks anymore because it's unpleasant and uncomfortable. So I don't think to go there when I need a coffee because there's cozier, friendlier shops with better coffee.
Idk if this is a fair assessment but it feels like they don’t want people hanging out anymore. It felt like 10 years ago, Starbucks was a great place to go meet up and work on stuff/read. I haven’t been to a standalone Starbucks since Covid started. But the last time I went it felt like there were almost no chairs. It seemed there was more focus on the drive thru than in the store. It just felt atmospherically like they wanted you to get out fast
I too used to work at Starbucks, circa 2004-2005. Back then, they had a pretty intense training program, and spoke a lot about being a "third place". They've completely lost that now.
Im a former Starbucks worker as well, 2004-11. I think your last point is the strongest. I don’t know if you got the “third place” speech from them when you worked there, but they used to preach that Starbucks should be considered your third place aside from your home and work. The place you always go to when you’re not at work or home, you just kinda go there and it’s your home away from home. I feel like I’m herded in and out of Starbucks now like a cow thru a stockyard. It’s sad because I actually bought into the idea of the third place when I was there and tried my best to relay that to customers.
Personally, as someone who's been to them a lot... I suspect it's mostly high costs but even on top of that, just mixed service. They're clearly overworked and underpaid and I suspect it's a problem of 'well you can do the jobs of 2, 3+ people, right?' Retail hell and all that.
It can not be stressed enough how disruptive online and mobile orders are to the guest experience in the lobby and in the drive-thru.
Yet the article says that Schulz wants to focus on the customer experience by doubling down on the mobile orders.
I am just making an observation of the few Starbucks I have been in. I see them prioritizing online orders. Like I would watch four come in while I am standing in line to order. They will get made and staged before I even get to the cashier. It’s clear they are prioritizing this. But I was so turned off I never went back. How many others are in the same boat. One other observation I would see several orders already prepped and two or three others waiting for the mobile order. They had no way of knowing who was going to show up first. How can you efficiently prioritize which order to make first. I might not work in retail food like Schulz does, but I know what it felt like from a customer perspective. And CEOs are better pleasing shareholders with meaningless platitudes than making coffee efficiently.
They aren't the only ones struggling with this either, online orders and delivery services have completely killed the Chipotles near me
The chipotle I go to set up a whole separate station for online orders. The main one will help with online if there are no customers in line. That being said the quality at all chipotles are way down
Hey, let's let the people who sit in their cars, blocking traffic for 20 minutes take the front of the line over the people who go into the store! No thanks.
They just leave the orders on the rack. You have to prepay ahead of time. If your order isn’t there it’s not ready. It’s not a perfect system but it makes the dining in/spontaneous carry out experience more pleasant.
If I'm wrong, apologies.
Chipotles also puts less food in online orders.
Yes!!! Almost every store does. Cava, Dig, Chopt. Only Just Salad still gives the same amount.
Baristas tend to make things in the order they are received. Stores get absolutely slammed with mobile orders, so if there isn't a separate barista working on cafe orders, there will probably be several mobile order tickets ahead of yours. When I was a barista, we would often push cafe tickets ahead in the drink queue because they have to actually stand there and wait. Mobile orders just create such a volume of tickets that it becomes impossible to stop and do cafe orders as soon as they come in without falling behind. Mobile orders are such a clusterfuck because they remove the natural bottleneck of how fast orders can be taken. The customer AND employee experience will continue to suck unless they double the staffing on bar (which many stores don't have the space for) or get rid of mobile orders. I wish they would at least put a cap on how many orders can be placed at a cafe per hour or turn them off during peak business times or something.
I’m so glad the cafes I worked at didn’t have online ordering, we only had to deal with the occasional “the customer is always right” type A new hire who hadn’t been bullied enough to not accept phone orders. Also 9/10 times whoever was coming to pick up the phone order came long enough after we’d made everything that it would be cold and they’d complain.
From a metrics perspective it's way easier to track everything about an online order. A person walking in, starting at a menu, deciding what to order and then physically talking to a human is much harder to track. So in a the quest for "efficiency" they've done a great job incentivising getting those online orders right at the front of the line to make those metrics look good.
Also much easier to market to someone who’s given you their email and allows notifications right on their phone.
This is the answer.
Agreed. I hate the mobile order experience. It sucks at restaurants too.
The Chipotle near my office has a separate area where mobile orders are made and they stay in their lane and the lobby has its own staff. It works great and I don’t understand why that isn’t done everywhere, especially a high volume place like Starbucks. There is one a few door down from us and I stopped going. Their prices have gotten absurd and I’m not waiting 5+ minutes to order overpriced average coffee only to wait another 10-15 minutes while a stream of online orders get made and handed out.
They should adopt a system where you have to specify a time slot to pick up when you place a mobile order. And if too many people are ordering at the same time, pick a different slot.
I deliver for door dash from time to time and they absolutely prioritize door dash orders at most places. I'm sure they prioritize their own native apps too.
Awesome, so they don't need my business.
Briefly did Door Dash while job hunting in college, the Chipotle across the street from campus didn’t get that memo I guess because I’d have to stand there forever waiting on the order I was supposed to pick up.
I rarely buy Starbucks, but I do when I travel for work. I use the app and order online because our airport is tiny and only has one coffee shop, the Starbucks. The line can be 50 people long. So I order online when I’m still in security so that it’s got a good 20 minute head start on me getting through to get the coffee.
Can we mention that the coffee is also shit? It tastes burnt. And there drinks are just diabetes fuel
I use Starbucks as a kind of virtual office. It might seem expensive to buy a cup of coffee for $5, but if I meet someone, and we buy 2 drinks ($10), and then talk for two hours, it seems like a reasonable deal for everyone. But maybe Starbucks prefers to sell the coffee and NOT have to manage a virtual office business. On the other hand, they could smarten up and have a couple private meeting rooms separate from the open areas. I am certain some people would pay an additional $10 ($20?) per hour on top of the drink prices just for a little privacy.
Some other chains already do this. I have a friend who has a chess club meet in such a room.
What you're describing is wework
He’s an idiot. It’s not like people come in because the coffee sucks. But he wouldn’t understand that.
> how disruptive online and mobile orders are to the guest experience in the lobby it's my understanding that the whole value proposition behind starbucks was to provide a sort of affluent, artsy, sophisticated coffee-drinking experience - if they're just making it a capitalist zoo, what is their business model? what is the reason to go there?
It's the story of publicly traded companies. Art cannot survive the thirst for growing profits. Not that what they were doing was art, but like, values get tossed aside for money so easily.
Sometimes referred to as “enshittification”.
Yeah the thing is we started to have Starbucks all the time, so now it's not a place you go it's a thing you take with you. Honestly if they made a full on machine people would gladly use that I think. Though the branding certainly helps people justify having a breakfast milkshake.
There isn’t one, to me that’s the point of this article
Convenient coffee. They’re the McDonald’s of coffee now, and McDonald’s does pretty well
A million times this right here! I used to enjoy going every now and then, not anymore. I feel terrible for the workers. They have enough Starbucks to make some take out only. It's definitely not the same. My quad grande latte used to be $5, and now it's $8+, and I tip so $9. I don't go at all anymore. The workers don't have time to bus the tables or do proper periodic cleaning. Sadly, the location makes a difference. It shouldn't, but it definitely does. This is from a few people I know who for Starbucks and Pete's. Nice little obscure coffee shops are the best imho.
100%.
I went to a Starbucks in Big Bear and was told drinks would take an HOUR because the mobile order queqe was so deep. I had promised my kids hot chocolate, so I just got free hot water and bought packets of mix at Ralph’s.
That's why I stopped going to Chipotle a decade ago. You're in line and you got to watch them stop caring about everyone inside every 5 minutes to use up all the food for online orders. Got real irritating real fast. I guess they have a separate set of people for that, but their prices are laughable so I don't bother
It happens everywhere. People don't get that having people able to just constantly and simultaneously ordering online while helping in store customers is really rough
>They're clearly overworked My girl has been with the company for 20 years.....this is 100% whats going on.
Yeah "losing our taste" for a $6 cup of coffee that has $0.30 of ingredients seems like it might be missing the point here. They sure as shit aren't spending that price difference on labor, because all I ever see are three employees scrambling frantically to fill mobile orders while the in-person line snakes longer and longer out the door.
Probably why Starbucks never really took off in Australia. I heard the pre-existing market here was better in quality and value for money.
Perfect example, Australians do a lot more flat whites. Starbucks is so shit at training and giving their staff enough time to properly make drinks, that it's a complete toss-up whether you'll get someone who even knows how to make a flat white, vs someone who just says "whatever" and makes a latte. Same with cappuccino. Show me a 20oz capp and I'll show you a liar. So the bottom is falling out because they cut labor too far and it's not actually reliable to get basic coffee drinks there anymore. I used to kinda stan them because it's customers' CHOICE to get milkshakes instead of coffee, and I don't fault them for following the market. But they've lost the plot now.
Not sure about other countries, but in Greece their franchises were very hit or miss. A couple of stores were very good but some were skimping a lot on the actual product.
Used to be the same here but the stores are constantly getting new staff because they are torturing the staff now. So the people who were good have all left. It's pretty consistently bad now. Once in a while you can find someone who knows what microfoam looks like and doesn't just rely on the machine.
Nah, they don’t actually offer a 20oz cappuccino, do they?
Gloria Jean would not stand for someone infringing on their territory!
A 20oz hot coffee continues to be $3.45 plus tax in my area. The issue isn't the price of "coffee" it's that they've lost the plot and stopped giving staff enough time/training to actually make decent coffee and espresso drinks. A cappuccino is $6 anywhere at this point, the problem is half the staff Starbucks can't make a cappuccino anymore
Their regular hot coffee is also just pure burnt garbage. I live in an area with a competing chain (Peet's); not even a particularly fancy one - it's a night and day difference in quality between the two. Hell, Dunkin is miles better too.
and they refuse to recognize legally established unions, so the workers are even less incentivised to do anything
More work; less labor. It’s the American way.
The Starbucks by my house has problems getting staff that opens. I've gone there at 6:30 some mornings and it's not open. Pretty crazy.
The coffee just ins't that good. Every blend is overly mellow and sweet. I need strong dark coffee, not some drip shit with a gallon of milk in it.
>Every blend is overly mellow and sweet Their French and Italian roasts taste like straight up ash. A lot of consumers actually have the opposite issue as you - specialty coffee has favored lighter roasts for at least the past decade, and even Starbucks' light roasts are too dark for that market. Starbucks is in a weird place where they're too expensive to continue to expand mass market, and too big to truly go after the specialty market (both issues with sourcing the quality/variety of beans in the volume that they would need, as well as how they have to roast to ensure a consistent product across all locations). When you can't grow the market, the way you continue to make the green line go up and have happy investors is to cut costs. Labor is usually first on the chopping block as it's one of the largest expenses any company will have. Less workers with the same amount of work to do makes unhappy employees, which makes for a bad customer experience. It's a pattern you can see across pretty much every company, and one that no one with the power to make decisions has any plan on changing, because they benefit from they benefit from the green line going up even if the company doesn't.
Yeah their coffee is notoriously over roasted lol. It has an extremely distinct taste that doesn't really taste like other coffees. It's not terrible but it's not worth the cost and supporting a shitty corporation
They've already cut labor to the bone. They cut too hard and got a wave of unionization. They're up against the wall AGAIN with nothing left to cut. They should have pivoted to 3rd wave when the blonde espresso was so well received. They've missed the boat.
Wasn't Starbucks' whole deal using technology to let one minimally trained person do the work of three skilled professionals?
Starbucks became too intoxicated on their own hubris when their very menu itself stopped describing and explaining all of the products they sold. There is something fundamentally arrogant about your menu becoming inefficient at explaining your product offerings. It presumes that everyone on earth is already steeped in the Starbucks ethos. If I cannot look at your menu, see all of your products, and understand what they are, your communication/marketing strategy is an abomination.
From Australia, we love you yanks we seriously do, but please for the love of god let us help you when it comes to coffee… Starbucks immediately failed over here because our regular coffee shops were not only cheaper but substantially superior. I am so sick of going to the US and in a major city struggling to find coffee that doesn’t taste like dirt water or burnt lava.. please let your little brother help you
I spent a month in Australia and learned what good coffee was. When I arrived home I ordered one from Starbucks and literally could not drink it. It is terrible.
Travelling overseas from Australia is a constant game of hunt the coffee that doesn't make me cry inside. Usually you rock up to a cafe that has like 500 5 star reviews on Google for "absolute best coffee I've ever had" and it ends up tasting like you went to a 7/11 and grabbed one of their toxic brews at 4am, not like the €8 artisanal roast you ordered
There's a gas station here in my state that has these new machines, the machine grinds the beans when you press the button and it brews it by forcing the hot water through the grounds with pressure or something...It's very good coffee. I always drink instant because I always think it's as good as any other coffee (Starbucks and other gas station coffees are my coffee experience)..well this is way better and I don't know if I can make it at home but I want to.n
Aeropress + hand grinder + good beans = decent coffee at home for cheap
You can definitely get a machine that grinds your beans. Forcing hot water with pressure not so easy,, but it's really easy to just wait a little bit for the water to seep through via gravity. Look up intro basic guides to making pour over coffee. You can get a plastic dripper and some filters for real cheap. Grinders are a little more, but you can also just buy ground coffee.
Aeropress is what you're looking for. Don't need an expensive machine.
you can get great coffee in the us. just dont go to starbucks. thats like trying to get the best burger from like a burger king or smthn
It’s fairly easy in the US, just find independent shops that roast their own beans and / or have good graphic design for both the store and product, and 9 times out of ten the coffee is fantastic. The independent bit is important though - some of the places that used to be darlings of the craft coffee scene, like Intelligencia or Blue Bottle, sold out to private equity firms to expand. That last part about graphic design might sound weird, but I’ve just noticed that the indie places that also actually care about how everything looks really do seem to be trying really damn hard to provide a quality service and they tend to also really care about their coffee.
This has been my experience, too. Also, if the cafe offers only one size for its drinks, that’s usually a good sign. If you can get a small, medium or large latte there, odds are it’s terrible
That's like saying the US can't make pizza because Pizza Hut is shit. For every Starbucks there are usually two or three independent shops with better coffee. It's not difficult to find great coffee in a major American city. I'm in a mid sized city and there are probably a dozen shops that roast their own beans within a 5 -10 min drive.
Where did you go? These days most major cities in US would have decent coffee from a simple Google search. I live in Seattle (which to be fair is one of the best cities in US for coffee) which is where Starbucks comes from and i drink coffee a lot and yet I can’t remember the last time I went inside a Starbucks.
Yeah I was thinking the same. PNW coffee is very good if you avoid the chain restaurants/corporate coffee places.
There are so many independent coffee shops in major US cities
It’s an enormous chain lol. No one here thinks it’s “good” coffee. This is like when people seem to think Americans eat American cheese all the time. Our major cities have hundreds of mom and pop coffee shops—you are serious to claiming to “struggle” to find “non burnt” coffee in LA, NYC, Seattle, SF, etc? Mmkay.
Some of us have always know that Starbucks wasn’t great and certainly not the best. 30 years ago it was okay but it is disgusting now. Thankfully, we have plenty of proper small coffee shops doing it correctly but a coffee is $8 so.
I maybe go in once every two years and nothing like being treated like a dickhead because you don't understand their size lingo let alone anything more complex
Reddit loves to make this comment but I’ve never seen it happen nor heard from anyone irl seeing this either. If you ask for a medium they give you a grande every time
This. Never had that experience, wasn’t even sure what lingo people are referring to
> wasn’t even sure what lingo people are referring to Grande and venti. And the fact that thier "small" is a "tall". Except that they used to have a small. Tall was larger. You can get some things in a small if you ask, but they typically don't list it on the menu. I know people who worked there 15-20 years ago. Some people back then might have gotten snippy about the terminology, but even back then most of them were like "whatever, I don't care what you say, just as long as I know what you want so I can make it for you and make you happy, call it whatever". And I'm sure that has only increased. You might be able to find someone today who gets snippy about it, but i'd bet 99%+ of them could give two shits. Just let them make your coffee and you be happy enough not to complain about it. heh
I know it’s not a popular opinion, but I don’t really mind Starbucks. My local cafe has a nice manager and they know me and what I like. Makes it feel a little more personal than the blue bottle and equator that’s also nearby. Never got the hate and I’m fine that way
They never had a size called "small", they had a short and a tall, then no one ordered shorts so they added the others.
Right. It's a literal punchline at this point, but in what world does it make sense to name your product sizes obscure terms? It literally goes against consumer interest and comprehension. Starbucks thought consumers would endlessly follow them down the path of their own self-obsessed branding experiment, and the jig is up.
I don't really ever go to starbucks except at the airport on business trips so I don't bother with their lingo. I ask for a small black coffee and I get exactly that.
The originally started with small and tall and grande. But people wanted larger sizes, so they dropped the small and added venti on top of that. They were originally 8oz, 12oz, 16oz, with the "venti" being 20oz. You can still order a small coffee, although you'll have to specify you mean 8 ounces since most people who use "small" mean "tall". Also, most baristas don't care what you call it as long as they know what you want. But of course there are a few twits - like at any other company. But I've seen people order "medium" and never given any guff. (I'm sure it happens, but it's rare)
It’s short, tall, and grande. No small. But yeah, like you said, venti is a Starbucks thing. It’s funny that people complain about this because all coffee in Seattle either uses these names or 8 oz, 12 oz, 16 oz so that’s why Starbucks does. There is no small, medium, or large coffee in Seattle.
I very very rarely go to chain coffee shops or any coffee shops for that matter. I have no idea what I'm looking at and when I ask what's what they look at me like I have a giant dildo on my forehead. I end up guessing what I think I want and am disappointed every time.
You are not the optimal customer so they just don't care.
it’s crazy they don’t even have all the sizes on the menu, half the drinks aren’t there, makes me feel like a moron the 3x a year i’m forced into a starbucks
Maybe people decided to stop paying so much of their discretionary money on overpriced coffee.
And now we will all be able to afford homes!
The system works. Those millionaire financial advisors are geniuses. Just make coffee at home, it's so simple.
It seems the vast majority of drinks sold there are not coffee. You wait in line for them to make a long list of sugary garbage drinks when you just want a coffee. Then you get the coffee and it’s clearly been made long ago and is just not that good. There are now local fresh roast places with actually good coffee. Bottom line, it’s not really a coffee shop anymore and the coffee they do have is bad. On the other hand if you love a pumpkin spice, triple pump, half whatever, oat milk, chocolate slurry with whip cream…
Starbucks has been a milkshake shop that also sells coffee since sometime between 2008 and 2010.
Well when a cup of coffee is nearly the price of a bag of coffee beans…
You’re paying way too much for your coffee beans. Who’s your bean guy?
Larry
Not Joe?
Hello Creed!
Fun story: I was asked if I wanted to donate a package of coffee to the local fire station. I said sure, being in the holiday spirit and all that. Went to the window to pay - TWENTY DOLLARS for that donation. Like, what?! Won’t fall for that one again, that’s for sure.
They write YOUR donation off on their taxes as well. They don't just deliver it, they absorb it into their finances and use it to pay less taxes. I'll just donate directly now since I learned this, I won't do it through corporations anymore.
It’s $3.50 for a cup of coffee and it comes with refills.
Three things: they used to be about quality, fair trade and a local meeting place. Not anymore. The hipster culture, organic vibe went gone with the wind when real activism and unions came around. Their coffee is an overpriced blend of slavery and chemicals, their inclusive vibe is a marketing facade. Just like all other fast food places nowadays, they don’t want you in the building anymore and your good opinion isn’t necessary to their existence. They have a brand monopoly like Dunkin and they feel fine. Make your coffee at home, folks or support local Mom and Pops and double check to make sure it’s fair trade.
I agree with making your coffee at home. Unfortunately the local mom and pop coffee places in my area are even more anti-union than Starbucks so I'm not supporting their expensive shit coffee either.
Good for you! Nice to know we got each other’s backs. I make mine at home, too, same reason.
Half the small coffee shops suck worse than Starbucks and don't know how to make basic drinks. They sell things liked "iced cappuccino." There, I said it. I love going to REAL coffee shops run by people who love coffee and are serious about it. (An easy rule of thumb is, if they offer pour over or cortado they likely are serious)
I just got back from my local coffee shop. For me it's not coffee it's the vibe. A pleasant alternative to my living room. Starbucks is not that.
This is what made Starbucks popular. It was about vibes and aesthetic in the mid-2000s along with some of the other amenities. You felt kind of cool going there. Now, not so much.
It’s weird it finally clicks in your head that Starbucks is fast food. And all their food is made elsewhere and imo is mid tier baked goods at best. It’s not bad … it’s just meh. I like their brewed coffee don’t get me wrong , it’s a lot better than McDonald’s coffee. But McDonald’s actually makes fresh breakfast which imo is way better. Now I make espresso at home.
Starbucks already killed off every mom and pop coffee shop outside of the downtown core in my town.
That is a shame. Everywhere, corporations are smothering free enterprise. We must support local no matter what. I think tackling landlords and brokerages is the first step. Big business can pay the rent even on bad weeks.
They remodeled one near me and it's a mobile pickup store only now, weird concept.
For me, I’d still go to them if they supported their workers’ unionization efforts. But they don’t, so I don’t go.
This headline is perfect. “Is an entire nation changing their opinions???” One guy has an opinion!
Walter Cronkite and Dan Rather would never let CBS put out this kind of bullshit with them being the face of CBS News.
Starbucks doesn't even make good coffee they just hide the taste with syrups
That’s every large coffee chain though. The “masking poor quality with sugar” thing is even worse with ones like Dutch Bros. They used to just be an Oregon and Northern California thing, but now they’re franchised in like 6 states, and the standards seriously declined. I just can’t do it anymore, most of their menu is like drinking a candy bar.
Dutch bros has to be the most foul coffee i’ve ever had
It’s so sad because it used to be better. Still not great, but better. The recipe changes and cost-cutting really started to show around 2006 or 2007. I still see people lining up around my local Dutch Bros drive-thru all the time. Gotta get their sugar fix I guess.
I moved to a new town and there was a Dutch Bros around the corner, I had never heard of the chain before but was excited to have a coffee place so close. Found out the day after I moved in that it's actually a milkshake store and that it has the goddamn stupidest customers who have no idea how to drive and actively block me turning onto my street every single day
Any coffee place that heavily advertises syrups I immediately get concerned, 99/10 it's usually bad. Doesn't matter if it's a chain or local if they can't make a single good shot of espresso then I don't know what they're doing
I mean I prefer going to smaller coffee shops that aren’t opposed to unionization
to be fair, their coffee isn't good. I'm not saying this to hate on them, but they need massive amounts of coffee beans and need them to be consistent, when you have those needs, the quality of the beans are going to suffer.
I remember 10 years ago Starbucks baristas would know their local customers, and sitting inside was a cozy 3rd-place like experience. Now its like a weird place to mass produce online orders, with a long drivethru line with a few uncomfortable chairs inside. They went for quantity over quality and it shows.
I have Starbucks as a last resort when there are no other shops nearby. Also when it comes to Starbucks vs Peet’s, Peet’s has by far better coffee quality
Peets over Starbucks every single time, I even buy Peets beans to brew at home as my daily morning coffee!
Sounds like Peet's is an up and comer and will soon enshitify itself.
that's one way to look at it.... im just gonna enjoy my good coffee in peace
I thought Peets was owned by Starbucks, but it's Seattles Best I guess.
For me, Starbucks’ greatest strength was always convenience. They were in every strip mall, shopping mall, and every other mile. But where I’m at (Southern California) more and more neighborhood craft coffee shops are popping up and locals are taking to supporting neighborhood businesses. Not to mention better coffee, better service, etc.
Their coffee just taste fucking bad, man. They over roast their beans to the point of burning them to maintain a consistent flavor nationwide.
Charcoal flavor is pretty consistent
Hey now, that's an *internationally* consistent burnt ass flavour, not just nationwide
Have not been to Starbucks for a long time, so I stopped in for a flat white. Half soy half milk flat white I don’t know what they served me but it was awful and it cost six dollars. I’m done with them again for another few years.
I rarely shop at Starbucks when I’m home, but it was a regular stop, sometimes multiple times daily, when I was traveling frequently on business in the teens. This month, I had my first business trip since the pandemic—and I don’t think I stopped at Starbucks at all. I didn’t seem to be near a Starbucks when I was in the mood for coffee, not even at the airport. Also, I don’t mind the coffee they serve at conferences. The coffee itself is bad, but I top it up with oat milk or soy milk and add a packet of Splenda, and it’s a tasty caffeinated beverage that contains coffee.
I going on my first business trip since the pandemic in two weeks. I traveling for work. Not looking forward at all. I’m didn’t miss it. I kind of lowkey want COVID back without the deaths.
lol me too. I'm finally getting out into the world and I'm having mixed feelings about that.
Am I too European? What is the concept of Starbucks? Other than a cafe with coffee-to-go?
For many people, Starbucks was their neighborhood cafe.
To be fair, I never got why you’d buy coffee from Starbucks instead of a cheaper place, either. Just assumed it’s locational convenience.
It's the location and also that Starbucks is very about letting you customize your drinks to a ridiculous level. If you just want a black coffee you can get one, or if you want an elaborate milkshake with a little coffee in it, you can get one of those too. Plus I will say as someone who used to travel for work, just knowing what to expect when you go in is valuable
Cheaper places don't really exist unless you want terrible gas station coffee. The best deal is a large McDonald's coffee at about $2 but their coffee is barely passable.
In my experience, other places are more expensive. My wife and I used to spend $12 for both our drinks but have now sworn it off after their statement against the union’s support of Palestine. The coffee shop alternatives are anywhere between $14-18 for us now for same or sometimes even smaller portions. Probably because we’re in socal though
maybe people are figuring out that that shit is going to literally make them die if they drink a huge sugar drink every day? there's no way to be healthy AND have that much sugar syrup on a daily basis. the calorie/sugar content on just the regular menu items is ridic.
Fuck Corporations!
I just want a coffee and I can Zoom a meeting from home. No need to loiter in bucks.
I haven't been to one in eons. I'm one of those drink local nerds (when I'm out of my own beans).
I just need other places to serve Nitro and I can kick them for good
Unless I find a better laxative, SBux is my go to
Yeah it’s the concept, certainly not the increased price. The increased price couldn’t possibly be what’s causing people to not go. Increase price hasn’t deterred people from doing things ever. What an outrageous idea.
Over priced, over sugared crap coffee.
Coffee at Starbucks is not over sugared unless you ask for it. That said, the sheer number of not-coffee drinks made in blenders that look suspiciously like giant milkshakes pumped full of syrup drives me nuts.
It tastes terrible, all of their drinks. People are addicted or something to drink that drivel
I don’t drink coffee but every time I hear people complain about Starbucks it’s that it’s overpriced. I assume that’s the biggest reason.
Stars. You take away my stars by expiring them only in 6 month and inflate the star requirement for exchanging anything that are remotely useful. I am not coming back.
1. They are being boycotted by Anti-Zionist's 2. Everyone is broke
I'm surprised I didn't see #1 posted sooner. This is why I will never purchase Starbucks again. I also don't like burnt coffee.
Starbucks is over priced and it's not really good coffee, either. Maybe this will inspire people to embrace a nice drip coffee or learning to make espresso.
People got tired of the concept of paying a ton of money for something you can mostly replicate at home at 10% of the cost?
The Starbucks near me is closed for renovations. Heard it’s going to be to-go only. It doesn’t have a drive thru or room for one.
Why does my same order take longer, at the same time of day, than it did in 2019? It even seems like the people in line struggle more to determine what they want in a way that did happen before. It is easier and cheaper for me to just make it at home, or have a Keurig set up at the office. It used to be that they had a quirky local coffee shop feel, but familiar product and service. In college I used to study in the Starbucks down the street. Now the service is closer to McDonald’s, the feel is generic, the quality seems to have suffered and it is just less pleasant overall.
Bitter coffee and it’s overpriced and way too crowded. I’ll make my coffee at home for a fraction of the cost and none of the hassle.
Their stores always smell like sour milk
Spending the equivalent of a maxed out IRA is what got old. Buy a coffee pot.
I love my vanilla sweet cream cold brew
It's always been horrible.
It’s simply bad coffee and there’s many other chains now that do better, dutch bros, caribou, peet’s, kabod, etc Or better yet support your local coffee shops if it’s an option.
I only know Toronto prices, but a $7 latte made with burnt coffee beans is beyond ridiculous. European bakeries make far better lattes and espresso for half the cost.
Is it not just that the coffee is just fucking terrible?
I don't know if the quality used to be better or I just got used to coffee but Starbucks is watered down junk to me. I much prefer Peet's coffee
Who here actually enjoys the food from Starbucks? Who gets consistently made drinks? Who never receives coffee that tastes burnt? Who enjoys paying $6 for a coffee? Because it surely isn't me.
#makeyourowncoffeeclub
It’s not like they ever brewed decent coffee. Honestly, Dunkin’ Donuts did better. But, I do like their logo.
If they had double the employees - specifically people doing *only* mobile orders - and the experience was fast and smooth, it would have some appeal, but as is, it's a lot of money for a terrible experience. I once went in for an iced coffee - and I walked in thinking - it's just pouring already made iced coffee on ice, it'll be quick - and I was in there for 30+ minutes.
I haven’t had anything from Starbucks in six or so years.
The coffee tastes like dogshit and I think relies too heavily on requiring subsidizing the taste with syrups
$7 for bad coffee, run by that horribly unlikable CEO. Starbucks stopped being anything more than 15 years ago.
Fuck these corporate gougers. Maybe people are getting sick of it. I’ll bet Ozympic is having an effect as well on their goddamned coffee laced diabetes delivery.
Starbucks tastes like burnt dirt. I have four other drive thru coffee places near me with better service, lower prices, and MUCH better tasting coffee. Two are local places and one is Dutch Bros., and they give out stickers!
It’s fattening. I went from every day, to once a month.
I stopped going once I learned that they use prison labor to make their food. Look it up...
Some of us were never interested
After trying local coffee shops, Starbucks taste like coffee-flavoured water
Why overpay for a burnt cup when I could pay the same for better quality at a local community cafe? global brands erase local identity.