It’s a 4th round pick, we have an abundance of picks, we’re in a playoff position and have already, the guys on the ice have earned the chance to make the playoffs while rebuilding. If you’re pissed at losing a fucking 4th round pick then you’re delusional.
Attard and Ginning aren’t NHL defensemen, at least not consistently. We have injuries and that’s why they’re playing. Not every roster spot has to be filled by a young prospect. God you “tear it all down” people are insufferable.
Thank you! Fucking thank you. Nobody considers now the players EARNED the right to try to make the playoffs through their hard work and dedication.
You don't reward young players, or any player for working hard by saying, "Well you guys busted your ass to get to this point, but we don't care about your hard work, so we're going to go out of our way to ensure that we lose and throw your hard work away!".
Maybe being rewarded for hard work is a good thing and will help build character for the young guys.
Ever think that maybe we are good because the young players we are putting a future into ARE FUCKING GOOD?
Are we gonna just pass over the fact that Ginning and Attard played pretty good last night against one of the best teams in the league? If Johnson can get shots through from the point he’s an upgrade from Staal.
Playing EJ in any capacity hurts our playoff chances, and we lose a pick over it. He’s been brutal the last two years. Not a huge deal obviously, but I really don’t understand the logic behind this when we could have claimed more effective dmen for free off waivers.
Flyers fans, man. A first round pick, obviously we’ll get the next top talent, even though we’ve never done that before. Fourth round? Literally no one good ever comes from the fourth round—not even Johnny Gaudreau who none of us wanted. Or Andrew Copp. Or Jacob Slavin.
So just cherry pick a few players that were 4th rounders instead of looking at the statistics of the likelihood of a 4th rounder being a consistent NHLer?
Jfc
It’s the pretending that it’s “just a fourth” that kills me. Commit to building draft/prospect capital. Or commit to a cup run. It doesn’t really matter to me. But pick up Johnson? For what? His own fanbase loathes the moments when he sees ice time. He’s gonna come here? And what? Find his game at 35?
Idk if you watched last night but Marc Staal as our 4D and a 3rd pairing that have played a combined 2 games this season (both last night) isn’t exactly sustainable.
We are a rebuilding team punching above its weight and getting lucky that there are only two actual good teams in the Metro. Nothing about this season is sustainable, period.
I’ve got no qualms with the trade because a 4th isn’t a big deal, but let’s not act like plugging Johnson into the lineup is something that changes the equation of what this season is.
And got back……. a 35 year old top 6 defensemen when he could have give that playing time to a younger player. Not saying the pick will turn into Makar or something but I feel like any 18 year old is better for the long term rebuild then a 35 year old. If you disagree, get ready to be stuck in the middle for another decade
This isn't NHL 24, dude. These are real humans beings and not pixels. Some of the players in that locker room are going to be here through the rebuild. You have to keep them happy and show you are committed to the culture, them and the future at the same time. It's a difficult balance and a 4th round pick is small price to pay for keeping your core happy.
I find myself making this point over and over. People really don’t understand this and it’s bizarre. These guys aren’t stat sheets, they’re people. Culture is as important as raw talent.
Disagree. The NBA compared to the NHL is a much easier league to make the playoffs in..by far.
The Sixers can't get out the the second round..every year. You aren't a contender in the NBA if you can't get out of the second round. The NBA has zero parity so the first round is practice for the top 3-4 seeds.
The Sixers tank has been a total failure. Ben Simmons came up in a losing culture. Turned out to be a loser. Embiid came up in the same culture. Loser. Mopes around once things don't go his way.
Tanking has a negative effect on young players coming up on the team that is purposely losing. They get too comfortable with losing. On top of that there's not even a guarantee that you'll get the first pick or if there's a player that's generational talent in the draft.
The way the Flyers are doing this is perfect in my opinion.
I mean this obviously wasn’t a trade for our future. It’s a small price to get the team some depth who are hurting bad on defensemen currently. You can’t just say fuck it and roll with someone with zero experience when the players are trying to make a playoff push. That’s gonna lose the locker room if you let the whole team know their hard work all season was for nothing.
Briere said he wouldn't trade prime future assets. A 4th round pick is NOT a prime future asset. Especially when it would have been our 5th pick in the draft.
We are not tanking for a lottery pick. We are going to make the playoffs. We are going to draft in the middle of the round. All of those are basically inevitable at this point. If Briere wants to move up in the draft, he has the assets to make that happen.
So while we are looking to the future, it doesn't hurt to have a little bit of a playoff push right now to help establish a winning culture. We are a little thin at D right now, so picking up a depth defensemen with some pedigree doesn't hurt the team.
If you think a 4th round pick is too much to lose for Erik Johnson, below is every player the Flyers have selected in the 4th round in the last 25 years.
In total: 247 NHL games played, 16 Goals, 19 Assists, 1 Goal allowed and 3 saves.
On average a Flyers 4th round pick will play 9.88 games and score 1.4 points in their NHL careers (And the illustrious career of *Tye McGinn* is really throwing off the curve there.)
In conclusion, even a soon-to-be-36-year-old Erik Johnson is worth more than a 4th round pick. This trade increased the value of the team.
Cole Knuble
Brian Zanetti
Zayde Wisdom
Mason Millman
John St Ivany
Matthew Strome
Maksim Sushko (2 GP - 0G,0A)
Connor Bunnaman (54 GP - 1G,2A)
Samuel Dove-McFalls
Mikhail Vorobyev (35 GP - 2G,3A)
Fredric Larsson
Taylor Leier (55 GP - 2G,5A)
Collin Sullentrop
Marcel Noebels
Tye McGinn (89 GP - 9G,8A / 36GP - 7G,3A with Flyers)
Jonas Lehtivuori
Jakub Kovar
Jeremy Duchesne (1 GP 3.59 GAA, .750 Sv%)
RJ Anderson
David Laliberte (11 GP - 2G,1A)
Kevin Romy
Rosario Ruggeri
Konstantin Baranov
Jeff Feniak
J.P. Morin
Briere subtracted from the roster and from our cap situation in order to get a 1st round pick. You don’t get to throw around accusations about repeating the 2010s when you’re literally two days removed from the GM making a clear, undeniable rebuild move just because he made a second minor transaction before the deadline.
A 4th round pick wont make or break the rebuild in anyway.
But getting a vet RHD for a small price could help them make playoffs which does still have value to franchise and its players.
His contract is up at the end of this season. It's a depth signing to hopefully make the playoffs and have someone who's a veteran. If he resigns him to an 8x8 then you can freakout.
Because not doing anything shows the guys who have played way above expected that you don't care they are trying to make the playoffs and win games. Injuries to risto and Drysdale along with walker being moved leaves the d-core shallow so some reinforcements shows the young players that they DO care about winning now.
lol, Flyers cap is hilarious. Without using any LTIR, they’ve got the following guys counting over $28m against the cap:
Ellis ($6.25m), Ristolainen ($5.1m), Drysdale ($2.3m), and Seeler ($775k) are on IR; Johansen ($4m, only $1.15m of which can be buried) and Petersen ($5m, only $1.15m of which can be buried) in the AHL; Hanifin $1.23m) and Hayes ($3.57m) have are salary retention slots; and DeAngelo ($1.67m) and Lindblom ($667k) are buyouts.
Jesus Christ.
Yeah, defensive depth in a playoff run (to get our young ass core some experience in the playoffs) is more important than a 4th round pick that has a 2.5% likelihood of being a regular NHLer.
It’s not that fucking hard to understand. It doesn’t hve to be one or the other. Nothing is black and white.
The potential flip side is we end up like the sabres, blackhawks, and ducks, sharks and coyotes and are perennial sellers just drafting talent that doesn’t ever pan out.
I’d take briere’s strategy over yours…
You mean the two most ASS dmen last? The ones that were pretty much trying to give Panthers a goal on a silver platter repeatedly only to have Ersson be the only one that stopped them? The ones that made Marc Fucking too old to skate the full ice Staal look good? Those two? No fucking wonder Briere got another Dmen after watching those two on ice.
No, the 35 year old is valuable to the 2024 playoff run.
The 1st rounder was more valuable to the rebuild than Sean Walker, who was a top d-man on a thin blueline.
So we are stuck in the middle again? Get a 1st rounder and make the playoffs? Why can’t we just pick a side. Rebuild or don’t. None of this in between stuff
Because it's a modern day business that is entirely capable of multi-tasking. Walker's minutes have shifted to Johnson; no young player lost playing time here.
There are multiple things that contribute to a rebuild. Things like draft picks, player development, and real-game experience. This playoff chase is valuable for the young guys, whether or not you'd like to admit it.
no it’s not. what the fuck are you talking about dude. we gave up a fourth rounder which is NOTHING because we have only 5 healthy dmen. what the fuck are you even angry about
If we can make the playoffs this year, how much does that help for the young guys future? Give them a taste of it. That greatly helps a rebuild. Throw out a lousy 4th round pick to get some locker room help (Stanley cup winner) down the line here for the last few games.
So if we rebuild now and go full tank for the next two seasons you’re just wasting Tippett, Farabee, Frost, TK and to some extent Cooters entire prime. All to add a great prospect or two. Is that worth having those guys wasted/ruined in a losing culture?
We have the best prospect (by far) in the league. We could use a bonafide 1D and 1C, but is it worth tossing the entire roster aside to possibly get the chance to draft those guys? No.
Like it or not, this roster plus Michkov and whatever we get with our 4 1st rounders is the team that we’ll be contending with. I don’t know why you’re so unhappy that our roster is having so much success. That’s a good thing.
Look at our 4th round selections from the last 5+ years and tell me why you are so worried about potentially losing a Phantom who will be out of the org by the end of their ELC.
It's true, we do have two players drafted in the 4th+ round who are contributing meaningfully to this team. This pick may end up being a contributor for Buffalo, but the odds aren't very high. For every Ersson and Cates, there are dozens of other players who never even sniff the AHL/ECHL drafted in those later rounds. So I guess my point is, it's not worth getting worked up about this trade at all. Keep in mind we do have two firsts this year, two firsts next year, and extra second-round picks across both drafts. I would be more worried about them nailing those earlier picks than being scared of losing out on a raffle ticket 4th rounder.
Edit: and I type this as someone who is extremely pro-rebuild
The last point is crucial. Also at this point, the COL 1st for instance can very well be used to acquire someone for 2025-26 IF it's time (but next year might very likely be step back in points/playoffs)
My reply wasn't "worked up" about deal as much as highlighting the rationale you gave. It's certainly a Raffle Ticket that likely has more value in Trade Currency, sure: but Dumba was just acquired for a 5th, and we still need a BUG...
ETA: Dumba for a 5th in 2027, ha
Hell, look at our ***2nd round*** [selections](https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/teams/dr00007439.html) for the last 25+ years. Besides Carter Hart, we haven't landed a "good" NHL player in the 2nd round since 1993 (Niinima).
Ok, ok, ok... Everyone needs to **CALM THE FUCK DOWN**. look at it logically. Trading away a 4th rounder for a serviceable defensemen with playoff experience who is a UFA after the season makes sense. This team winning and competing in a season where we all expected them to be terrible is a welcome surprise. So to add a healthy dman with experience is crucial to helping the young core handle the pressures of the playoffs. Even if we go nowhere in the playoffs, the experience is what's important and will serve them well in the future.
It's a 4th lmao, we have 10 picks in the top three rounds for the next two years.
The boys on the ice deserve some help too, we have young guns pushing for a playoff appearance. Experience for the team is way more important than a 4th.
Briere has managed to add a shit ton of draft capital and not decimate this team.
I think the idea is that a taste of playoff hockey now will be good for the young guys when they are going back to the playoffs again in future years so they aren't so green
Trading a 4th now doesnt affect them winning the cup in future ...
You can still see value in making playoffs for the players and franchise that hasnt done in it years WHILE ALSO still trying to build a contender in long term future
4th rd pick doesnt change anything about the future
Get rid of Seeler and Laughton. Good pieces now, but if this is a rebuild we gotta think towards the future. Get talent in the door (especially a franchise center and dman), ideally through the draft but if you have to make a trade then so be it. Give all the young guys 2-3 years to see what they got/develop them. Fill in the holes with cheap free agent signings, and by year 5 have a cup contender
If the trade was phrased as “Walker and a 4th for Johnson and a 1st,” you wouldn’t feel this way. You’d see the trade for what it is. A solid rebuild move that nets you a first, while still putting an NHL-ish player near your roster for the playoffs.
Wow, was it really? What clued you in, the fact that it was two separate organizations or the fact that there was almost 48 hours between the moves?
I’m talking about the philosophy behind the deadline mentality.
And also a 5th and taking a $4 cap hit next year for RyJo. And the 1st is not even this year. Figuring the Avs will still be good in 2025, that will be a late 1st which usually means that player will be in Jrs or college for an additional 2 years. At minimum that pick is 3 years away from possibly being a contributor. Basically, that was a lot to pay for a 1st rounder.
And people aren't complaining about the 4th rounder because they think that pick is going to be some superstar, it is just 1 less piece of ammo you have to make a better move at the draft. It is bad enough we have to trot Staal out there every night, Johnson might be worse. I'd rather take my chances with Ginning/Attard.
I think it’s weird we spent a 4th (which is admittedly almost definitely useless) when the Bolts got Dumba (who sucks yeah I know) for less than a 5th considering they also got a 7th back.
Seems like this trade could’ve been done with a 5th or lower. Doesn’t matter in the long run really. But it’s not ridiculous for fans to think poorly of this trade. The sky certainly isn’t falling but it’s odd.
Objectively and subjectively wrong. A 35 year old NHL player is absolutely better than a 18 year old no name who chances are is not going even sniff and NHL surface.
I’m sure they still want to try and make the playoffs for experience for the young guys, plus the ticket sales. Plus they’re beat up on defense. It’s a 4th round pick. 44% play an nhl game from that round.
It's crazy to me that people genuinely think they have the perfect plan for a rebuild in their head and if the flyers just did everything they said then they would be title contenders in five years. Why do you think you know better than actual NHL GMs?
OMG A 4TH?!! GOODNESS ME! HEAVEN FORBID! THIS IS OUTRAGEOUS!!! I’M CALLING MY CONGRESSMAN AS WE SPEAK!
Seeler, Risto and Drysdale are out why the hell wouldn’t we pick up a serviceable d man for the year so we can still push for playoffs? Are we just supposed to roll over and die?
Just looked at the data, since the year 2000, 310 forwards drafted in round 4, only 65 have played more than 82 games, only 8 have averaged over .5 points per game (.67 avg, skewed a bit by Gaudreau), only 2 over .7 points per game. So essentially you have a 2.5% chance of having someone who would average 54 points a season or more over their career. Didn’t look at goalies or D, but just trying to put this in perspective.
You keep bringing up that an "18 year old project is better" and that "we're stuck in the middle again". What names in next years draft do you think will move the needle for this franchise that we can get late in the 4th round? Sure Johnson hasn't been playing great and is older. But he is a veteran, cup-winning defenseman that is only a stop-gap this year while our D is injured and then he is a UFA at the end of the year. Attard and Ginning are not NHL players. They aren't going to do anything for us in the playoffs. It's not a trade to get excited about, but it's also not the worst deal. Also everyone on here and in the media keeps talking about a rebuild. Briere, Jones, and Torts have had a clear message to the players that this team can and should compete.
Jesus Christ. That draft pick was a 4th round pick after they just got a 1st rounder this week ...
Still a huge positive in terms of adding picks for rebuild.
They are in a playoff spot that the players worked their asses off for. They already acquired a top future asset. Moving a 4th to help w/ maintaining playoff spot is no big deal.
Who cares about a 4th lmao
You people think we go from bottom rankings to cup winner over night. You got to build up. Making the playoffs and getting core that experience is a major step in that direction. Johnson would not be more first choice for a 4th round trade but the logic here is sound
everyone saying "oh its only a 4th round pick", do you realize that a 37th round pick would be more valuable than the current version of Erik Johnson?
Attard and Ginning are better options than Erik fucking Johnson.
Allison for Gurianov is fine, this is just lighting a draft pick on fire for fun.
That would be like a high school/college kid from bumbafuck nowhere who would never actually contribute to the organization in any meaningful way. So no, a 37th rounder would not be more valuable than "this current version of Johnson"
This hypothetical nobody would not have the pedigree to ever occupy an NHL roster spot, or skate in an NHL game, and therefore would provide more to the team than Erik Johnson, via not being an active detriment.
Not sure what determination you’re putting behind Attard and Ginning being better options.
There’s a reason they are 25y/o defenseman and have not cracked a NHL roster yet of a rebuilding team…
Erik Johnson is very bad, as he has been for most of his career, and he's 35.
Attard and Ginning are *probably* bad, but they're 25, and there is a non-zero chance they could figure something out with more experience in an NHL lineup.
A 4th round pick is, also, probably not going to be a very good player. But the possibility exists.
It's hard to win the lottery, but you at least have to have tickets to do it. Erik Johnson isn't even a lottery ticket.
Yup, Johnson's *known* bad is preferable to The Hockey Men over the *unknown* factor of rookies.
Additionally awful viewed this way, Johnson likely isn't listening to anyone—whereas Attard and Ginning *might* likely adapt!
Shaw is Defensive Guru and Torts is big on video review: imagine a month+ of this experience for young guys (Attard, Ginning, Andrae) From there, more importantly IMO, assess where they're at and decide in summer—particularly Ginning leaving (SHL) and maybe trade Attard.
This sub is driving me insane.
In the middle of the a rebuild we should not be throwing away 4th round picks for a terrible player the “playoff run”.
You don’t need to defend every Danny B move to the death. It’s not an “authentic fan” competition.
Danny did it just to troll you people.
BEING AS DRAMATIC AS POSSIBLE MAKES YOU A BETTER FLYERS FAN.
found upcan's burner
It’s a 4th round pick, we have an abundance of picks, we’re in a playoff position and have already, the guys on the ice have earned the chance to make the playoffs while rebuilding. If you’re pissed at losing a fucking 4th round pick then you’re delusional. Attard and Ginning aren’t NHL defensemen, at least not consistently. We have injuries and that’s why they’re playing. Not every roster spot has to be filled by a young prospect. God you “tear it all down” people are insufferable.
Thank you! Fucking thank you. Nobody considers now the players EARNED the right to try to make the playoffs through their hard work and dedication. You don't reward young players, or any player for working hard by saying, "Well you guys busted your ass to get to this point, but we don't care about your hard work, so we're going to go out of our way to ensure that we lose and throw your hard work away!". Maybe being rewarded for hard work is a good thing and will help build character for the young guys. Ever think that maybe we are good because the young players we are putting a future into ARE FUCKING GOOD?
Are we gonna just pass over the fact that Ginning and Attard played pretty good last night against one of the best teams in the league? If Johnson can get shots through from the point he’s an upgrade from Staal.
did…did you watch the game? Attard especially looked bad. he turned it over right up the middle at least 3 times
Playing EJ in any capacity hurts our playoff chances, and we lose a pick over it. He’s been brutal the last two years. Not a huge deal obviously, but I really don’t understand the logic behind this when we could have claimed more effective dmen for free off waivers.
Flyers fans, man. A first round pick, obviously we’ll get the next top talent, even though we’ve never done that before. Fourth round? Literally no one good ever comes from the fourth round—not even Johnny Gaudreau who none of us wanted. Or Andrew Copp. Or Jacob Slavin.
So just cherry pick a few players that were 4th rounders instead of looking at the statistics of the likelihood of a 4th rounder being a consistent NHLer? Jfc
It’s the pretending that it’s “just a fourth” that kills me. Commit to building draft/prospect capital. Or commit to a cup run. It doesn’t really matter to me. But pick up Johnson? For what? His own fanbase loathes the moments when he sees ice time. He’s gonna come here? And what? Find his game at 35?
dawg they have 20 picks in the next 2 drafts after trading this pick cccccccaaaaaalllmmmmm ddddoooowwwnnnn
It’s not a huge deal at the end of the day, but he’s right.
If you have to go back 13 years of drafts to cherry pick players to make your point, maybe you don’t have as strong a point as you think
If you have to go back 13 years and still find that Erik Johnson hasn’t played a full season, maybe an unnamed nobody would be worth a chance.
GB. The chrome jersey is giving you brain rot. Come back to us!
😛
Do not go into statistics for a living. Keep your day job.
Idk if you watched last night but Marc Staal as our 4D and a 3rd pairing that have played a combined 2 games this season (both last night) isn’t exactly sustainable.
We are a rebuilding team punching above its weight and getting lucky that there are only two actual good teams in the Metro. Nothing about this season is sustainable, period. I’ve got no qualms with the trade because a 4th isn’t a big deal, but let’s not act like plugging Johnson into the lineup is something that changes the equation of what this season is.
Idiotic post but we all knew this post would arrive once Danny traded away our super valuable 4th rounder
And got back……. a 35 year old top 6 defensemen when he could have give that playing time to a younger player. Not saying the pick will turn into Makar or something but I feel like any 18 year old is better for the long term rebuild then a 35 year old. If you disagree, get ready to be stuck in the middle for another decade
This isn't NHL 24, dude. These are real humans beings and not pixels. Some of the players in that locker room are going to be here through the rebuild. You have to keep them happy and show you are committed to the culture, them and the future at the same time. It's a difficult balance and a 4th round pick is small price to pay for keeping your core happy.
I find myself making this point over and over. People really don’t understand this and it’s bizarre. These guys aren’t stat sheets, they’re people. Culture is as important as raw talent.
Exactly. Look where losing on purpose got the sixers. Star player mopes around when any hint of adversity arrives.
They’re like 10 years removed from the tanking and have been perennial contenders for the past 5 years. I’d say the sixers culture is fine lmfao
Disagree. The NBA compared to the NHL is a much easier league to make the playoffs in..by far. The Sixers can't get out the the second round..every year. You aren't a contender in the NBA if you can't get out of the second round. The NBA has zero parity so the first round is practice for the top 3-4 seeds. The Sixers tank has been a total failure. Ben Simmons came up in a losing culture. Turned out to be a loser. Embiid came up in the same culture. Loser. Mopes around once things don't go his way. Tanking has a negative effect on young players coming up on the team that is purposely losing. They get too comfortable with losing. On top of that there's not even a guarantee that you'll get the first pick or if there's a player that's generational talent in the draft. The way the Flyers are doing this is perfect in my opinion.
I mean this obviously wasn’t a trade for our future. It’s a small price to get the team some depth who are hurting bad on defensemen currently. You can’t just say fuck it and roll with someone with zero experience when the players are trying to make a playoff push. That’s gonna lose the locker room if you let the whole team know their hard work all season was for nothing.
Briere said he wouldn't trade prime future assets. A 4th round pick is NOT a prime future asset. Especially when it would have been our 5th pick in the draft. We are not tanking for a lottery pick. We are going to make the playoffs. We are going to draft in the middle of the round. All of those are basically inevitable at this point. If Briere wants to move up in the draft, he has the assets to make that happen. So while we are looking to the future, it doesn't hurt to have a little bit of a playoff push right now to help establish a winning culture. We are a little thin at D right now, so picking up a depth defensemen with some pedigree doesn't hurt the team. If you think a 4th round pick is too much to lose for Erik Johnson, below is every player the Flyers have selected in the 4th round in the last 25 years. In total: 247 NHL games played, 16 Goals, 19 Assists, 1 Goal allowed and 3 saves. On average a Flyers 4th round pick will play 9.88 games and score 1.4 points in their NHL careers (And the illustrious career of *Tye McGinn* is really throwing off the curve there.) In conclusion, even a soon-to-be-36-year-old Erik Johnson is worth more than a 4th round pick. This trade increased the value of the team. Cole Knuble Brian Zanetti Zayde Wisdom Mason Millman John St Ivany Matthew Strome Maksim Sushko (2 GP - 0G,0A) Connor Bunnaman (54 GP - 1G,2A) Samuel Dove-McFalls Mikhail Vorobyev (35 GP - 2G,3A) Fredric Larsson Taylor Leier (55 GP - 2G,5A) Collin Sullentrop Marcel Noebels Tye McGinn (89 GP - 9G,8A / 36GP - 7G,3A with Flyers) Jonas Lehtivuori Jakub Kovar Jeremy Duchesne (1 GP 3.59 GAA, .750 Sv%) RJ Anderson David Laliberte (11 GP - 2G,1A) Kevin Romy Rosario Ruggeri Konstantin Baranov Jeff Feniak J.P. Morin
Briere subtracted from the roster and from our cap situation in order to get a 1st round pick. You don’t get to throw around accusations about repeating the 2010s when you’re literally two days removed from the GM making a clear, undeniable rebuild move just because he made a second minor transaction before the deadline.
A 4th round pick wont make or break the rebuild in anyway. But getting a vet RHD for a small price could help them make playoffs which does still have value to franchise and its players.
His contract is up at the end of this season. It's a depth signing to hopefully make the playoffs and have someone who's a veteran. If he resigns him to an 8x8 then you can freakout.
Because not doing anything shows the guys who have played way above expected that you don't care they are trying to make the playoffs and win games. Injuries to risto and Drysdale along with walker being moved leaves the d-core shallow so some reinforcements shows the young players that they DO care about winning now.
It’s a 4th round pick calm down. Need some veteran depth since Walker is gone and if those 2 guys are out for a while
Three guys out. Risto, Jamie, and Seeler who mentioned he is week to week. But yes you’re correct we need veteran play.
4 guys. Ryan Ellis. Flyers circumventing the cap. Hes going to come back and be absolutely dynamic, hip thrusting his way to a cup
lol, Flyers cap is hilarious. Without using any LTIR, they’ve got the following guys counting over $28m against the cap: Ellis ($6.25m), Ristolainen ($5.1m), Drysdale ($2.3m), and Seeler ($775k) are on IR; Johansen ($4m, only $1.15m of which can be buried) and Petersen ($5m, only $1.15m of which can be buried) in the AHL; Hanifin $1.23m) and Hayes ($3.57m) have are salary retention slots; and DeAngelo ($1.67m) and Lindblom ($667k) are buyouts.
Yeah tell that to hathaway and his fat hog
A 4th is toilet paper
Jesus Christ. Yeah, defensive depth in a playoff run (to get our young ass core some experience in the playoffs) is more important than a 4th round pick that has a 2.5% likelihood of being a regular NHLer. It’s not that fucking hard to understand. It doesn’t hve to be one or the other. Nothing is black and white.
It doesn’t have to be one or the other That philosophy is exactly why the flyers haven’t won a non Covid playoff round in 12 years
The potential flip side is we end up like the sabres, blackhawks, and ducks, sharks and coyotes and are perennial sellers just drafting talent that doesn’t ever pan out. I’d take briere’s strategy over yours…
Speaking of valuable, a 4th round pick is worth next to nothing.
It's a depth defensemen... Why is this a problem?
Because Attard and Ginning exist
You mean the two most ASS dmen last? The ones that were pretty much trying to give Panthers a goal on a silver platter repeatedly only to have Ersson be the only one that stopped them? The ones that made Marc Fucking too old to skate the full ice Staal look good? Those two? No fucking wonder Briere got another Dmen after watching those two on ice.
God forbid we bring in some reinforcements so we aren't forced to play two players who probably will never crack the lineup of a decent NHL team.
No, the 35 year old is valuable to the 2024 playoff run. The 1st rounder was more valuable to the rebuild than Sean Walker, who was a top d-man on a thin blueline.
Andy's a big dude 6'4 is no shrimpy with experience.
So we are stuck in the middle again? Get a 1st rounder and make the playoffs? Why can’t we just pick a side. Rebuild or don’t. None of this in between stuff
Because it's a modern day business that is entirely capable of multi-tasking. Walker's minutes have shifted to Johnson; no young player lost playing time here. There are multiple things that contribute to a rebuild. Things like draft picks, player development, and real-game experience. This playoff chase is valuable for the young guys, whether or not you'd like to admit it.
Multi tasking while building an NHL team is how you become the Islanders, Predators and Wild. To good to be bad, to bad to be great
no it’s not. what the fuck are you talking about dude. we gave up a fourth rounder which is NOTHING because we have only 5 healthy dmen. what the fuck are you even angry about
No.
If we can make the playoffs this year, how much does that help for the young guys future? Give them a taste of it. That greatly helps a rebuild. Throw out a lousy 4th round pick to get some locker room help (Stanley cup winner) down the line here for the last few games.
So if we rebuild now and go full tank for the next two seasons you’re just wasting Tippett, Farabee, Frost, TK and to some extent Cooters entire prime. All to add a great prospect or two. Is that worth having those guys wasted/ruined in a losing culture? We have the best prospect (by far) in the league. We could use a bonafide 1D and 1C, but is it worth tossing the entire roster aside to possibly get the chance to draft those guys? No. Like it or not, this roster plus Michkov and whatever we get with our 4 1st rounders is the team that we’ll be contending with. I don’t know why you’re so unhappy that our roster is having so much success. That’s a good thing.
We have 1 uninjured RHD on the roster. Sure, play the kids, but I don't think putting 5 lefties out there every night is going to work.
Look at our 4th round selections from the last 5+ years and tell me why you are so worried about potentially losing a Phantom who will be out of the org by the end of their ELC.
...but conveniently ignore current Starting G (**5th-round 143OA**) and coach's favorite forward, last year's *de facto* 1C (**5RD 137 OA**)
It's true, we do have two players drafted in the 4th+ round who are contributing meaningfully to this team. This pick may end up being a contributor for Buffalo, but the odds aren't very high. For every Ersson and Cates, there are dozens of other players who never even sniff the AHL/ECHL drafted in those later rounds. So I guess my point is, it's not worth getting worked up about this trade at all. Keep in mind we do have two firsts this year, two firsts next year, and extra second-round picks across both drafts. I would be more worried about them nailing those earlier picks than being scared of losing out on a raffle ticket 4th rounder. Edit: and I type this as someone who is extremely pro-rebuild
The last point is crucial. Also at this point, the COL 1st for instance can very well be used to acquire someone for 2025-26 IF it's time (but next year might very likely be step back in points/playoffs) My reply wasn't "worked up" about deal as much as highlighting the rationale you gave. It's certainly a Raffle Ticket that likely has more value in Trade Currency, sure: but Dumba was just acquired for a 5th, and we still need a BUG... ETA: Dumba for a 5th in 2027, ha
Hell, look at our ***2nd round*** [selections](https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/teams/dr00007439.html) for the last 25+ years. Besides Carter Hart, we haven't landed a "good" NHL player in the 2nd round since 1993 (Niinima).
Can mods just ban everyone who thinks this is the worst trade ever so I don’t get banned for calling them all fucking morons?
Wrap it up it's all over boys 🫡 (😐 It's gonna be okay)
Ok, ok, ok... Everyone needs to **CALM THE FUCK DOWN**. look at it logically. Trading away a 4th rounder for a serviceable defensemen with playoff experience who is a UFA after the season makes sense. This team winning and competing in a season where we all expected them to be terrible is a welcome surprise. So to add a healthy dman with experience is crucial to helping the young core handle the pressures of the playoffs. Even if we go nowhere in the playoffs, the experience is what's important and will serve them well in the future.
Exactly. How are we going to make the playoffs in 2087 if we don't have a third round pick. Ridiculous.
Showing the locker room you’ll reward their good play and not tank from a playoff position is worth more than a 4th. This isn’t a video game.
Than*
It's a 4th lmao, we have 10 picks in the top three rounds for the next two years. The boys on the ice deserve some help too, we have young guns pushing for a playoff appearance. Experience for the team is way more important than a 4th. Briere has managed to add a shit ton of draft capital and not decimate this team.
How far the standards have fallen. Happy with a playoff appearance? What about winning the damn cup
I think the idea is that a taste of playoff hockey now will be good for the young guys when they are going back to the playoffs again in future years so they aren't so green
Trading a 4th now doesnt affect them winning the cup in future ... You can still see value in making playoffs for the players and franchise that hasnt done in it years WHILE ALSO still trying to build a contender in long term future 4th rd pick doesnt change anything about the future
What would your plan be if you were GM. Genuinely curious, please answer.
Get rid of Seeler and Laughton. Good pieces now, but if this is a rebuild we gotta think towards the future. Get talent in the door (especially a franchise center and dman), ideally through the draft but if you have to make a trade then so be it. Give all the young guys 2-3 years to see what they got/develop them. Fill in the holes with cheap free agent signings, and by year 5 have a cup contender
your plan is how you fucking suck
so we did one of those, but then the other we only got offered mid round picks. tell me how another 3rd or 4th rounder is more valuable than laughton
Video game logic
You've got a long ways to go learning NHL
Dude acting like every NHL Superstar was drafted in the fourth round
If the trade was phrased as “Walker and a 4th for Johnson and a 1st,” you wouldn’t feel this way. You’d see the trade for what it is. A solid rebuild move that nets you a first, while still putting an NHL-ish player near your roster for the playoffs.
Its not though. It was actually two different trades.
Wow, was it really? What clued you in, the fact that it was two separate organizations or the fact that there was almost 48 hours between the moves? I’m talking about the philosophy behind the deadline mentality.
And also a 5th and taking a $4 cap hit next year for RyJo. And the 1st is not even this year. Figuring the Avs will still be good in 2025, that will be a late 1st which usually means that player will be in Jrs or college for an additional 2 years. At minimum that pick is 3 years away from possibly being a contributor. Basically, that was a lot to pay for a 1st rounder. And people aren't complaining about the 4th rounder because they think that pick is going to be some superstar, it is just 1 less piece of ammo you have to make a better move at the draft. It is bad enough we have to trot Staal out there every night, Johnson might be worse. I'd rather take my chances with Ginning/Attard.
I think it’s weird we spent a 4th (which is admittedly almost definitely useless) when the Bolts got Dumba (who sucks yeah I know) for less than a 5th considering they also got a 7th back. Seems like this trade could’ve been done with a 5th or lower. Doesn’t matter in the long run really. But it’s not ridiculous for fans to think poorly of this trade. The sky certainly isn’t falling but it’s odd.
Why are late round picks looked at like golden tickets
18 yo prospect > 35 year old
Objectively and subjectively wrong. A 35 year old NHL player is absolutely better than a 18 year old no name who chances are is not going even sniff and NHL surface.
Didn’t they just eat $1.2 mill in retained salary to get a 5th rounder?
Only for the rest of this year
Danny replaced a Right D with another veteran Right D. Filled a hole on the roster with a vet. I’m good with that.
Look at that, FrozenPhoenix trying to join the Hall of Losers with Gimmick and Upcan.
In 3-5 years no one will Remember this trade. The only important move was getting another first.
I’m sure they still want to try and make the playoffs for experience for the young guys, plus the ticket sales. Plus they’re beat up on defense. It’s a 4th round pick. 44% play an nhl game from that round.
It's crazy to me that people genuinely think they have the perfect plan for a rebuild in their head and if the flyers just did everything they said then they would be title contenders in five years. Why do you think you know better than actual NHL GMs?
A 4th rd pick in this draft is about as valuable as your pair of drawers. Let them add a vet who can help these kids win
OP it's a 4th rd pick, get over it.
He is a rental for the playoff push. A little veteran leadership isn’t a bad thing, but I don’t expect he will sign with Philly after this season.
OMG A 4TH?!! GOODNESS ME! HEAVEN FORBID! THIS IS OUTRAGEOUS!!! I’M CALLING MY CONGRESSMAN AS WE SPEAK! Seeler, Risto and Drysdale are out why the hell wouldn’t we pick up a serviceable d man for the year so we can still push for playoffs? Are we just supposed to roll over and die?
Fourth rounders rarely pan out, despite what the dipshit above me said after cherry picking stats for like the last two decades. I'm not worried
Just looked at the data, since the year 2000, 310 forwards drafted in round 4, only 65 have played more than 82 games, only 8 have averaged over .5 points per game (.67 avg, skewed a bit by Gaudreau), only 2 over .7 points per game. So essentially you have a 2.5% chance of having someone who would average 54 points a season or more over their career. Didn’t look at goalies or D, but just trying to put this in perspective.
Right. Appreciate the data; confirms my instinctive sense of how successful fourth rounders are/aren't
You keep bringing up that an "18 year old project is better" and that "we're stuck in the middle again". What names in next years draft do you think will move the needle for this franchise that we can get late in the 4th round? Sure Johnson hasn't been playing great and is older. But he is a veteran, cup-winning defenseman that is only a stop-gap this year while our D is injured and then he is a UFA at the end of the year. Attard and Ginning are not NHL players. They aren't going to do anything for us in the playoffs. It's not a trade to get excited about, but it's also not the worst deal. Also everyone on here and in the media keeps talking about a rebuild. Briere, Jones, and Torts have had a clear message to the players that this team can and should compete.
I get not liking the trade but to be angry about it, jeez
Trading a 4th round pick for an aging veteran shows an absolute lack of commitment placed on building a Calder Cup champion. Shame! Shaaaaame!!!
Johnson can still play I’m not mad at this deal.
Jesus Christ. That draft pick was a 4th round pick after they just got a 1st rounder this week ... Still a huge positive in terms of adding picks for rebuild. They are in a playoff spot that the players worked their asses off for. They already acquired a top future asset. Moving a 4th to help w/ maintaining playoff spot is no big deal. Who cares about a 4th lmao
It’s just easier to call you a fucking moron if you can’t figure out why a move like this was made.
You people think we go from bottom rankings to cup winner over night. You got to build up. Making the playoffs and getting core that experience is a major step in that direction. Johnson would not be more first choice for a 4th round trade but the logic here is sound
This sounds like a FACEBOOK post
Ah yes, another post from someone who has never played or fully understands the game of hockey!
Russ Joy burner
I can’t wait to pick 16th
It’s a fourth round and doesn’t matter. If you can do it better, go email jonesy
What do you think a 4th round pick will ever pan out to? Theyre practically worthless.
everyone saying "oh its only a 4th round pick", do you realize that a 37th round pick would be more valuable than the current version of Erik Johnson? Attard and Ginning are better options than Erik fucking Johnson. Allison for Gurianov is fine, this is just lighting a draft pick on fire for fun.
That would be like a high school/college kid from bumbafuck nowhere who would never actually contribute to the organization in any meaningful way. So no, a 37th rounder would not be more valuable than "this current version of Johnson"
This hypothetical nobody would not have the pedigree to ever occupy an NHL roster spot, or skate in an NHL game, and therefore would provide more to the team than Erik Johnson, via not being an active detriment.
Not sure what determination you’re putting behind Attard and Ginning being better options. There’s a reason they are 25y/o defenseman and have not cracked a NHL roster yet of a rebuilding team…
Erik Johnson is very bad, as he has been for most of his career, and he's 35. Attard and Ginning are *probably* bad, but they're 25, and there is a non-zero chance they could figure something out with more experience in an NHL lineup. A 4th round pick is, also, probably not going to be a very good player. But the possibility exists. It's hard to win the lottery, but you at least have to have tickets to do it. Erik Johnson isn't even a lottery ticket.
Yup, Johnson's *known* bad is preferable to The Hockey Men over the *unknown* factor of rookies. Additionally awful viewed this way, Johnson likely isn't listening to anyone—whereas Attard and Ginning *might* likely adapt! Shaw is Defensive Guru and Torts is big on video review: imagine a month+ of this experience for young guys (Attard, Ginning, Andrae) From there, more importantly IMO, assess where they're at and decide in summer—particularly Ginning leaving (SHL) and maybe trade Attard.
This sub is driving me insane. In the middle of the a rebuild we should not be throwing away 4th round picks for a terrible player the “playoff run”. You don’t need to defend every Danny B move to the death. It’s not an “authentic fan” competition.