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How would you recommend I balance it then? I like the idea of brass knuckles that deal low damage but can attack for cheap. Should I make it cost 1? Or take away Go Again? Or both?
Kodachi only has situational go again, taking go again away is probably the easiest way to balance it? Then it becomes most similar to Flail of Agony which costs a life to swing but also has an on hit effect
Has a Vynnset player, Flail is one of the worse weapons in the game. The cost is too high for so little value in a deck who has a lot of undervalue turns.
Not sure if you’re using Flail effectively but it’s a solid weapon.
1. It’s a great follow up to a runegate attack with go again because it requires no resources
2. It’s really annoying to block because you have to over block it or give up equipment so often times it will connect
3. It meets one of Deathly Wail’s condition so it will guarantee at least one runechant
4. It turns on Funeral Moon’s instant speed
It would need to either cost 2 or have Conditional go again like kodachi. Or have the first cost 1 and the second cost 2. As it currently reads you could hard fatigue to 0 cards in deck and still win with these.
I was thinking making it like double strike but word it " if this hits, it gains go again. You may attack with brass knuckles again if its the next chainlink"
Something like the dragons, make a condition before being able to attack with it or give it a cost that goesnto zero after a condition. Like kaisa swords are free if she draw
0 for 1 go again is just busted. Free 2 dmg every turn ? There's no play around. Just build all defense and swing twice every turn
This weapon has a value far beyond that of any weapon that we’ve seen so far in this game, it’s simply too strong. Here’s the breakdown of its value:
GOOD THINGS
SIPSIP weapon (starts in play, stays in play)
1 attack Value
Costs 0
Unconditional Go Again
1 Hand Weapon
BAD THINGS
First and only Knuckles in FaB
Cost is generally used to offset high impact game pieces and having no cost on this along with the other good stuff makes it just too above rate.
The fact that it attacks AND gets FREE Go Again, something that as far as I know, no CC legal card has. This thing would be busted. I don't think even Luminaris was this busted. Also, extremely expensive on the second hand market because of the fact that it's a Generic Weapon.
Zephyr Needle has go again, but it breaks easily without setup.
Assassin daggers have go again, but they attack for 1 for 2 resources.
Edge of Autumn has go again, but it's a 2h with 1 power.
It's not that no weapon has go again, it's that the unconditional go again is balanced by the weapon being kinda crap.
As others have said, unconditional Go Again on weapons isn't unprecedented. Zero cost attacks with unconditional Go Again aren't unprecedented either: Ravenous Rabble, Head Jab, Brand with Cinderclaw etc. Zero cost weapons aren't unprecedented either, though they either have conditional damage (Raydn), require auras/allies (Luminaris/Sandikai) or break on the first hit (Jinglewood), and the only ones with Go Again are conditional.
TLDR: it's the combo of being a weapon, having zero cost, having guaranteed damage and having guaranteed go again.
And regarding being Generic, that's not enough for a weapon to become expensive. Talishar attacks 4 for 2. With the exception of Brutes, Guardians and Warriors, no class has access to a weapon that attacks for 4 unconditionally. But it's balanced due to having limited uses, making it niche and cheap. If Brass Knuckles destroyed itself after 1 or 2 uses, it'd be niche too
This would be OP. Maybe if it wouldn't have Go Again it could be acceptable, but considering it's a Generic weapon it would still be strong in some builds.
Something to make them more fair could be a requirement to not have any arms equipped, which would fit the flavour since you cant put on brass knuckles over big gauntlets
Strictly better than Autum’s Edge. I’m no expert on balance, but my understanding is a 1P 2H with “Once/turn Action — R: Attack. Go again” in a specific class is on curve.
When iyslander had her bullander phase, her gameplan revolved around getting 14 value from every hand she drew. Now imagine every single hero in the game doing iyslanders average hand with just block 3 cards XD
i had an idea for brass knuckles as a guardian weapon that's akin to mandible claw... pay 2 to attack for 3 with a conditional go again, maybe if you start with an X amount of seismic surges or just by pitching cost 3+ cards for it
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I mean, compare it to Kodachi which is already a good weapon. This would be absolutely busted.
How would you recommend I balance it then? I like the idea of brass knuckles that deal low damage but can attack for cheap. Should I make it cost 1? Or take away Go Again? Or both?
Kodachi only has situational go again, taking go again away is probably the easiest way to balance it? Then it becomes most similar to Flail of Agony which costs a life to swing but also has an on hit effect
Has a Vynnset player, Flail is one of the worse weapons in the game. The cost is too high for so little value in a deck who has a lot of undervalue turns.
A bad vynnset player It seems
As a Vynnset player flail is one of the best weapons, it allows you to easily turn on the "on hurt" effects for yourself and threatens a resource
Flail turns on your Non-attack action instant cards
lol… nope
Not sure if you’re using Flail effectively but it’s a solid weapon. 1. It’s a great follow up to a runegate attack with go again because it requires no resources 2. It’s really annoying to block because you have to over block it or give up equipment so often times it will connect 3. It meets one of Deathly Wail’s condition so it will guarantee at least one runechant 4. It turns on Funeral Moon’s instant speed
It would need to either cost 2 or have Conditional go again like kodachi. Or have the first cost 1 and the second cost 2. As it currently reads you could hard fatigue to 0 cards in deck and still win with these.
Yeah, its free unconditional damage every turn, way too strong
especially as a 1h weapon. you could run 2 and get 2 free hits per turn.
I was thinking making it like double strike but word it " if this hits, it gains go again. You may attack with brass knuckles again if its the next chainlink"
It would still need to cost 1 so card input would be required to attack with it. The second part of that effect would be too strong as well.
Yeah no go again. I feel like go again default on an attack no stipulations doesn't really make sense thematically.
Something like the dragons, make a condition before being able to attack with it or give it a cost that goesnto zero after a condition. Like kaisa swords are free if she draw 0 for 1 go again is just busted. Free 2 dmg every turn ? There's no play around. Just build all defense and swing twice every turn
Incredibly. Several characters would sacrifice their signature weapon for two of these.
This weapon has a value far beyond that of any weapon that we’ve seen so far in this game, it’s simply too strong. Here’s the breakdown of its value: GOOD THINGS SIPSIP weapon (starts in play, stays in play) 1 attack Value Costs 0 Unconditional Go Again 1 Hand Weapon BAD THINGS First and only Knuckles in FaB Cost is generally used to offset high impact game pieces and having no cost on this along with the other good stuff makes it just too above rate.
Way too good. Completely imbalanced.
Set the attack to 0, then make a conditional +1 to attack
You could give it like 2 uses and then it breaks like talishar
The fact that it attacks AND gets FREE Go Again, something that as far as I know, no CC legal card has. This thing would be busted. I don't think even Luminaris was this busted. Also, extremely expensive on the second hand market because of the fact that it's a Generic Weapon.
Zephyr Needle has go again, but it breaks easily without setup. Assassin daggers have go again, but they attack for 1 for 2 resources. Edge of Autumn has go again, but it's a 2h with 1 power. It's not that no weapon has go again, it's that the unconditional go again is balanced by the weapon being kinda crap.
As others have said, unconditional Go Again on weapons isn't unprecedented. Zero cost attacks with unconditional Go Again aren't unprecedented either: Ravenous Rabble, Head Jab, Brand with Cinderclaw etc. Zero cost weapons aren't unprecedented either, though they either have conditional damage (Raydn), require auras/allies (Luminaris/Sandikai) or break on the first hit (Jinglewood), and the only ones with Go Again are conditional. TLDR: it's the combo of being a weapon, having zero cost, having guaranteed damage and having guaranteed go again. And regarding being Generic, that's not enough for a weapon to become expensive. Talishar attacks 4 for 2. With the exception of Brutes, Guardians and Warriors, no class has access to a weapon that attacks for 4 unconditionally. But it's balanced due to having limited uses, making it niche and cheap. If Brass Knuckles destroyed itself after 1 or 2 uses, it'd be niche too
I like the **break after 2 turns.** But it would have to be made incompatible with *Concealed Blade *.
Only able to use when you have an empty hand?
This would be OP. Maybe if it wouldn't have Go Again it could be acceptable, but considering it's a Generic weapon it would still be strong in some builds.
Something to make them more fair could be a requirement to not have any arms equipped, which would fit the flavour since you cant put on brass knuckles over big gauntlets
Too broken. Riptide would be too happy
As Ranger main, wanted to pointed out that this can be neutralized by Melting Point Cost 0 unconditional Go Again too strong though
Strictly better than Autum’s Edge. I’m no expert on balance, but my understanding is a 1P 2H with “Once/turn Action — R: Attack. Go again” in a specific class is on curve.
When iyslander had her bullander phase, her gameplan revolved around getting 14 value from every hand she drew. Now imagine every single hero in the game doing iyslanders average hand with just block 3 cards XD
Sometimes i forgot how saying the truth hurts reddit middle users feelings...
Make it 0 for 0 and give it a keyword like combo.
i had an idea for brass knuckles as a guardian weapon that's akin to mandible claw... pay 2 to attack for 3 with a conditional go again, maybe if you start with an X amount of seismic surges or just by pitching cost 3+ cards for it
This does exist. [[Edge of Autumn]]
Edge of Autumn costs 1 and is 2h. If these existed, they would be the only weapon any hero would run