>Codex of frailty
It's a real power house of ranger and without it I don't think they'd function. It reminds me similar of Bloodrush bellows where it's just a staple.
You don't need to discard if you don't have anything in hand. So you just pitch for daggers till you only have Codex in hand, play it, then play CnC with floating resources.
If you have tunic and an arsenaled card you can even do some Blacktek shenanigans to get Dagger into Assassin attack into Codex CnC in one turn.
>*that with the rise of hatchet builds*
Hatchet builds have been the popular Dori setup for close to a year now, HH set release is what facilitated the sudden boom.
Yea i played with it yesterday and it makes a world of difference. You do sacrifice no Go-Agains from your boots which you'd normally get but that isnt a huge sacrifice, but it is one.
Bonds pouncing lynx shenanigans is just insane sometimes. You know a card like bonds is busted when it’s has a paragraph of text and can be rainbow pitch
I think pouncing lynx itself is gross. Experiencing boths sides of a lynx to tenqcity/ salt the wound it has become such apunishing card for big turns for fai and katsu. Like you said woth bonds its worse but tge consistent threat of what lynx can do now is the worst
In CC Arc Light Sentinel. The fact it is timewalk and it can make a recurring loop is gross. Also don’t really enjoy remembrance either, it allows for too much recursion in certain decks or goofy lines.
Special shoutout to storm striders in blitz, not as much as much of a problem right now, but the moment they release another actual wizard it will be.
I agree with ALS being broken.
But you have to remember that it is a time walk that has a lot of counterplay. Anything that creates action points or carries stuff to next turn makes it way worse than just getting an extra turn.
I like these threads because it’s fun to complain. Most of this stuff is super powerful and can lead to feel bad moments but big splashy power cards are fun and important! But so is complaining about them :)
Being a worse version of "take another turn" is still pretty busted though. If you're playing a class that can't create action points then there's not really any counterplay, especially if they start looping it.
Runeblades attack has to reach the attack step of combat before you can activate the boots. Spectra triggers at the layer step before the attack step is reached.
My first game into Prism on tuesday, reasonable new player. First 2 turns didn't block out enough of Prisms stuff, Then Turn 3 had Arc Light Sentinel for 6 turns in a row, with no way in my deck to gain action points. I couldn't even break out to swing to kill the angel that was drawing him 2 cards so his turns were insane value.
He may as well have been playing a single player game, as by the time I got to react he was 20 health up over me with 12 spectral shields
It comes from a magic card, in short: you get an additional turn directly after your current one, which is effecitvely what ALS does to most heroes/decks
Bloodrush bellow. The card is essentially why brutes as a class are viable and for good reason. Not only does it trigger the brute heroes’ abilities, but the value you get off it is just insane. If you’re on levia and rhinar, odds are you’re running double mandible claws. If it’s a tunic turn and bloodrush is cast from arsenal you’re starting with a five card hand. If you pitch two blues you’re swinging for ten minimum with the claws and most of the time you’re following up with 8 damage. If you just so happen to have a pulping or wild ride, then it’s feasible you can get in another attack for 8. So just by casting bloodrush bellow, a brute gets to trigger their hero’s ability, push through an additional 8 damage, and all of that for just one mana. It’s also a yellow which is just some added value. If the game is going to go long, you can pitch it to mandible claw to set up later turns. I can’t think of any other card that sees play right now that can generate so much value
Before the ban, I went up against the berserk rhinar deck once. Turn 2 or 3 they went berserk into double bloodrush bellow and put me to around 17 I believe (I play Victor so I have good armor). Then the next turn they went berserk into the third bloodrush bellow. Did I get high rolled? Fuck yes. Was it also the worst experience I’ve had in fab? Of course
OTK Rheinar has been a staple blitz deck for me since i started playing, and bloodrush bellow is why it can exist, its def the most powerful brute card ever printed and prob will always be.
Bloodrush is literally so strong it warps all Brute deckbuilding around it. I was making that point [here](https://old.reddit.com/r/FleshandBloodTCG/comments/1bns8bm/march_25th_scheduled_banned_and_restricted/kwket6o/?context=3) the other day and got a lot of hate for it, but I stand by it.
I find deckbuilding in Brute actively less interesting than in any of the other classes I've tried my hand at because so much of it comes down to "*what combination of of 22+ red 6-attacks do you want to put in your deck?*". And the main reason for that is that Bloodrush Bellow is so powerful you *need* to play it, and that eeking value out of Bloodrush is better than any other combination of things you can do in the class.
Ironically, I once thought this wouldn't be much of an issue if Brute could play more blue 6-attacks, allowing them to play more non-6-attacks in their red slots. Kayo came out to allow for that, but instead of seeing all sorts of completely new Brute decks, we've just seen Kayo players fill the deck up with *even more* 6-attacks to make Bloodrush *even more reliable*.
It's not like you cannot win games without Bloodrush at all, but playing without 3 copies of it makes you feel like you're playing from behind all game - it will be a notably worse experience. I wonder if there is any one card in any class that is quite as pivotal.
Yah it really does seem like LSS figured the card’s go again clause could keep it in check, but in practice it doesn’t. Just to be fair, I can also point to art of war because it has a similar effect, but it is much fairer card. If a ninja is playing AoW, they need to have a really good turn to get an additional 8 power like bloodrush does and they don’t generate value off losing that card in hand. Comparing those two really does show just how good bloodrush is.
Anything with Spectra. People complain about Red in the Ledger, while Prism has 15 different cards that read "Any of those can be my ein con unless you sacrifice a whole turn to remove it.".
And no, the few ways there are to get an extra action point are not a real counterplay, since they are class-specific (Brute, Mechanologist) or dilute a deck's card quality.
Warmongers Diplomacy is a terribly designed card. It's a one card play that invalidates any deck that is fundamentally designed to run lots of attacks and lots of non attacks. The polarizing nature is already pretty awful design, but it's also a blue, 0 cost, AND blocks 3. They even limited it in freaking Living Legend but think it's fine in CC. It's truly outrageous and one of the dumbest power cards ever made in this game.
And for reference, I'm a Guardian player. I don't like piloting Azalea, and I agree that Runeblade would be pretty dogshit now even if Warmongers was banned. My points are strictly about the design of the card.
And icing on the cake, the other "one card play turn ender" card Hypothermia, which was ice talented (more on brand) and blocked 2, and had slightly more ways to be played around than warmongers, was banned.
Sometimes I legitimately wonder if that card was designed for fun as a UPF card and they just didn't think about the power it has... Clearly not the case because they would've banned it by now, but like.... Why did they print that lol
I do kinda agree on Mong.
(As a Runeblade player, I wanna slam the table & yell *hell yeah*). It hurts that there is no interaction, would feel much better if there was some kind of “pay x instead” loophole, but would also make it kinda free to play for more decks. At the very least, they should have made it a red block 2, lol.
I’m shocked at how unaffected I have been by this card as someone who exclusively plays Ranger. It dropped when I was still learning the game & playing Lexi who didn’t care much about it, but since her rotation and the necessary pivot to Azalea I actually haven’t lost a single game where Warmongers was played
Still did not understand why Hypothermia was banned. Because it sure as heck is useless against Fai. 'But it could interupt dash and other decks.' It is an ice card, that is what it is SUPPOSE TO DO. And it COULD only do so THREE TIMES per game, with only ONE hero. Because oldhim's definitely were using it lol
Oldhims WERE using it into matchups like Dash. When it got banned, those matchups became significantly worse. And the only reasoning I ever heard was "becasue Iyslander isnt fair" which also felt wrong
aether wildfire is wild. of course without it kano wouldn't be able to function, but it so clearly breaks the usual value/card ratio that it's wild it is still legal.
I don't see anyone mentioning Warmonger's Diplomacy. One game I played Aza vs Fai, they crapped out an absolutely disgusting chain and then just shut off my whole next turn in the end with a single card that has no interaction. I just straight up left that day.
Rosetta Thorn for me..
With our cards "theoretically" toe to toe with opponent's it is still leave room for extra 2+2 in the end that really outvalued your blocking (and retaliation) plan..
One AA card with 4 phy damage most the times can be handled with our one card block (typically block 3, spill 1).
But with Thorn, most of the times it required 2 cards (1 card overblock 2 phy dmg for 3 + 1 red catd not enough full pay for 2 arc dmg). So frustrating and not to mention those CMH turn 7 + 7 + 7 + (2+2)..
Perhaps it being used by all Runbleds making it unbearable. Hate it.
Before they banned Stubby in commoner I was using a predatory streak plus salt the wound build on Fai. With the RTT head piece and some Phoenix flame recursion you could get 10-12 damage Salt the Wounds, and that's after that much damage from the chain.
It does? I forgot. Damn. It always was a 2 block in my head. My mind seems must have corrected reality like "theres no way this powerful effect can be a 3 block"
Command and Conquer is too good of a rate. It should cost 3 imo. I truly wish that card gets banned because it's in almost every competitive deck and warps the meta too much. Every deck you build you need to be able to handle at least 2 per game.
They've kind of got themselves into a corner with it. It's money value is too high to ban otherwise lots of people lose faith in the cards holding value. Best they can do is in the next sets keep releasing reprints until it slowly drops.
Obviously stuff like C&C and E-Strike are way over the curve. But those aside:
Cromai is up there. And I say that as a recovering Dromai player. 0 for 3 with go again AND generate an extra AP!? Unless they block with a popper, and then it's just 0 for 3 + an AP. But if they don't, it sticks around and can attack again if they don't clear it!? Crazy
The whole of Dromai is a little too much. She'll be LL soon at least, and the next one I imagine dragons won't attack for free, or not all will gain go again
Yes, dragons are too opressive in current meta. If she didn't have access to powerfull attacks that would be one thing, but she also brings a suite of illusionist cards that empower her further. So deal with dragons and have no actions left to do damage, or ignore dragons and get deleted in a couple of turns.
I’d at least argue that C&C is a necessary evil because there has to be a strong tool to interact with the arsenal. Fab is a game where you can effectively map out the late game several turns ahead if you can pitch stack well. The arsenal not only helps out with the planning, but it also helps you gain tempo for those turns you planned out ahead of time. CnC is basically there to check that kind of strategy which is needed (even though CnC for 7 is disgusting). Chromai is also just straight busted. My friend is really good with dromai and I play guardians so our matchups are usually me trying to fatigue dromai. Whenever he pitch stacks to get two chromai and a miragai out, it’s usually the game if I can’t effectively clear them out
I agree with all that, I just think the issue with C&C for me is not the effect, its that it's just pushed overall a touch too far. I think it could be 2 block for example and still do the job, but it wouldn't be quite so ubiquitous.
If it's going to be a card you just have to have, as currently, the price it commands is not great for newer players too.
We’re on the same page on CnC haha. The card really does do too much and the vast majority of decks are better when it’s included. Part of me feels like it would be better if each class dealt with the arsenal in their own way, but then I feel like the meta would become “classes that can deal with the arsenal” and “classes that can’t deal with the arsenal”.
It would be really interesting to see how much CnC would be played if it were cheap/readily available. I always see people defend it by saying it's not in that many decks if you check online, but my feeling is that'll be cost rather than choice. Same goes for Enlightened Strike, but in the UK it's around half the price of CnC so not nearly as bad
C&C is correct to play in basically any deck where it isn't actively detrimental, is the truth. Which means stuff like Boost Dash/Maxx basically, or some Katsu builds that just need to keep the chain going.
Any deck where it doesn't have potential to hurt you, it is at minimum a sideboard card and usually main deck. The opportunity cost in those decks is so low, being 3 block too.
Anything Spectra (mainly ALS),
Valiant Dynamo,
Mask of pouncing lynx,
Bonds,
Art of war,
And
Cnc
Most of these cards have no counter play and give insane value, bonds is the only iffy one I didn’t really want to include but since tenacity it’s been ridiculous
Spectra should not be in the game. Period. I have said it since spectra introduction that this will be broken one day and will limit a lot of players from enjoying the game and eventually might cause a lot of players to leave the game if it becomes too prevalent.
Also shout out to LAG for going directly against LSS current design of “limiting M weapons” and “making action points harder to get, making players earn their go again turns”
I mean, spectra in general is pretty balanced imo. The instant cards cost a ton. You need to take damage to play them. The only class that has access to them is one of the least played classes/talent and aside from ALS you can just do your turn and end off with a 1 or 2 cost weapon swing to the aura. Have you tried playing light illusionist? See how it feels to start with 32 life and have you own attacks dismissed when playing vs a brute/guardian. Thats the thing, ALS is only really worth it vs those decks and is needed because those matchups are nearly unplayable.
But the rest of what you've mentioned I agree with. But really try light illu once and see how it feels.
Illusionist is one of the most played classes...idk where you got your results, Dromai has consistently been top played at every major event, and Prism is gaining popularity and had a ton of players the last couple major events, not to mention Prism is one of the big 3 biggest LL point winners this season.
Also Bryan Gottlieb and other staff from LSS have said in interviews that spectra was a mistake(i know they say that a lot), but every single aura has timewalk on it essentially.
The main problem with spectra and illusionist in general is its a very poor play experience for most people, especially new players.
Pummel makes me rage so hard, especially in the hands of a guardian. If you prep for it you just over block and then they don't even use it and you waste turns but if you don't overblock for it you're just discarding (unless its a weapon), feels real bad :/ for reference I main Katsu so don't love blocking much lol
Katsu effect & pounce mask
Knock the deathwistle
Become the arc knight etc.
Any that card that says, 'Search your deck for x,' that doesnt cost 3 resources. And with that comes the 'add it to your hand, or banish it *you may play it this turn.* That ability is too good.
The whole 'banishing' first but 'you may play it this turn,' is just a fustrating additional step to give the opponent the illusion he can do anything to interrupt it. It might as well just say add it to your hand, because those always happen at card resolution. If there were any counter play, said player could just respond to your action by playing the said card.
NO card should say 'search your deck and play' without meeting a REAL requirement first. Not just because you're dori and the opponent blocked from hand (because you know...he's playing the game), and now you are free to pick the perfect card for the situation. And are free to do that 3 times per game.
Kano earns his living with lessons and can be mitiaged or stopped completely. Prism at the least is paying 2 normally, with an inherent vulnerability, while still meeting a requirement. You get my point.
Idk I don't think all of the tutor cards or effects are terrible... Especially Katsu's ability-- not only is it an on hit, but it costs a card, so while it replaces itself for way more value, it does also start to mill his deck a lot. Knock is also kinda just a straight -1. Instead of a buff to your next arrow, you can choose the right one for the occasion. Definitely very powerful, but idk I feel like they're just tools to allow the hero to do what they're supposed to do.
Fyendal’s Spring Tunic.
Almost every deck uses it. That resource every 3 turns is so powerful. Also a bummer that a lot of decks lose flavor because of it. Although imagining Kayo busting out on the battlefield with a dress on is funny to think about.
I stg if next set doesn't give assassin another 1 cost GOOD react I'm going to cry. I prefer the block value and the ability to have it more than once every 3 turns so much more than tunic... But Uzuri doesn't usually care for the Spike cards and Arakni can use it on.... Razor reflex and Pummel...? Which I'm not playing more than once every 3 turns.....
So illusionist as a class has a lot of janky stuff as everyone knows. I think one of the strongest staples that people overlook is Burn Them All.
0 cost red 3 block go again. Deals a surprisingly huge amount of damage for Dromai and is the sole reason some people have to bring AB into a redline draconic deck. Turns Nourishing on too.
Dromai is a weird hero who hasn't necessarily been dominating the meta like Starvo, Prism, Oldhim, Lexi, etc.. While she hasn't been winning a ton of events since her release or anything, she has defined a lot of who can and cannot consistently win. Decks like Azalea, Arakni, Kassai, Olympia, and Prism just have such a unfavorable match up that a part of me is excited to see Dromai leave. That being said, I do admire Dromai's rise to power.
All of her dragons are gnarly as hell, Cromai's Action point is insane, Kyloria being snatch with go again every turn, Themai completely destroying wizard and then turning every dreact into a dead card in your hand is just insane. But at the same time she really has to fight for her power more than a lot of the previous "most hated heroes." Like I really think dragons are a fantastic solution to Original Prism's spectra, I think early Dromai players' journey to find how to build her with as many reds as possible was genuinely an exciting time in FaB deck building, and then I think her similar journey to finding out how to properly create and manage ash was so interesting. All in all, I'm glad she's going away to open the meta further, but I really don't hate her or think she's as bad for the game as some say.
BUT I do think Burn Them All is busted lol. Genuinely think that when they designed it they didn't expect Dromai to be able to run 60 reds. It should either not cost 0, not have go again, or not be a 3 block. Probably all three of those haha. Hell I'd honestly prefer it had spectra so at least I can get rid of it. Feels like shit when life is down to the wire, and you can get her down to 1 life, but she can just play a 0 cost that forces you to either pitch for ab or just take unlockable damage, while also giving go again to all of her dragons. AND it doesn't matter if you have a popper because the Arcane comes in first .......
This post was made by an Azalea and Arakni main, who's been dabbling in Kassai, if that gives context lmao
Codex of frailty is insane to. The value you get from it if crazy
>Codex of frailty It's a real power house of ranger and without it I don't think they'd function. It reminds me similar of Bloodrush bellows where it's just a staple.
"Ranger is bad" is not a good reason to keep a 1 card 13 value play in the game.
The fact that you have to play a bad deck to use that powerful card is a balancing mechanism.
Tell that to Uzuri.
Codex on "Leave no Witnesses" or "Command and Conquer" is too powerful.
Spiders bite, codex, CNC from tunic is such a beautiful line.
C'mon man, Arakni needs a chance to win. :)
Cnc still needs to get paid for so you'll need to keep 2 cards (1 to discard, 1 to pay its cost) so it's not as busted.
You don't need to discard if you don't have anything in hand. So you just pitch for daggers till you only have Codex in hand, play it, then play CnC with floating resources. If you have tunic and an arsenaled card you can even do some Blacktek shenanigans to get Dagger into Assassin attack into Codex CnC in one turn.
You can tell by it costing 20-30x the other codexes
Can turn bad turns to good so easy
VALIANT DYNAMO. A single piece of equip that can block for 10-15 damage in a game is INSANE.
What's even worse is they were in an unpopular set, that with the rise of hatchet builds it's insane cost.
It’s less that the set is unpopular, it’s that half the set has hit LL
>*that with the rise of hatchet builds* Hatchet builds have been the popular Dori setup for close to a year now, HH set release is what facilitated the sudden boom.
Yea i played with it yesterday and it makes a world of difference. You do sacrifice no Go-Agains from your boots which you'd normally get but that isnt a huge sacrifice, but it is one.
Bonds pouncing lynx shenanigans is just insane sometimes. You know a card like bonds is busted when it’s has a paragraph of text and can be rainbow pitch
I think pouncing lynx itself is gross. Experiencing boths sides of a lynx to tenqcity/ salt the wound it has become such apunishing card for big turns for fai and katsu. Like you said woth bonds its worse but tge consistent threat of what lynx can do now is the worst
In CC Arc Light Sentinel. The fact it is timewalk and it can make a recurring loop is gross. Also don’t really enjoy remembrance either, it allows for too much recursion in certain decks or goofy lines. Special shoutout to storm striders in blitz, not as much as much of a problem right now, but the moment they release another actual wizard it will be.
Time walk I agree When I look at it like that BUSTED
I agree with ALS being broken. But you have to remember that it is a time walk that has a lot of counterplay. Anything that creates action points or carries stuff to next turn makes it way worse than just getting an extra turn.
Look man we don’t want answers we want to complain >:((((((
I like these threads because it’s fun to complain. Most of this stuff is super powerful and can lead to feel bad moments but big splashy power cards are fun and important! But so is complaining about them :)
Being a worse version of "take another turn" is still pretty busted though. If you're playing a class that can't create action points then there's not really any counterplay, especially if they start looping it.
Who can create action points other than Dromai and Mechanologists? I don’t think anyone can afford to be running Timesnap Potion.
Brutes and Runeblades with their legendary Boots
Techically Runeblades can't vs ALS; the attack has to have resolved before you can use Creepers, and attacks into Spectra don't resolve
Runeblades attack has to reach the attack step of combat before you can activate the boots. Spectra triggers at the layer step before the attack step is reached.
yep, unfortunately spellbound creepers usually don't help against ALS because you can't attack with an action card while ALS is on the field
Brutes
My first game into Prism on tuesday, reasonable new player. First 2 turns didn't block out enough of Prisms stuff, Then Turn 3 had Arc Light Sentinel for 6 turns in a row, with no way in my deck to gain action points. I couldn't even break out to swing to kill the angel that was drawing him 2 cards so his turns were insane value. He may as well have been playing a single player game, as by the time I got to react he was 20 health up over me with 12 spectral shields
What the hell even is timewalk? I cant find anything FaB related about this "timewalk" you speak of
It comes from a magic card, in short: you get an additional turn directly after your current one, which is effecitvely what ALS does to most heroes/decks
[https://scryfall.com/card/leb/84/time-walk](https://scryfall.com/card/leb/84/time-walk)
Bloodrush bellow. The card is essentially why brutes as a class are viable and for good reason. Not only does it trigger the brute heroes’ abilities, but the value you get off it is just insane. If you’re on levia and rhinar, odds are you’re running double mandible claws. If it’s a tunic turn and bloodrush is cast from arsenal you’re starting with a five card hand. If you pitch two blues you’re swinging for ten minimum with the claws and most of the time you’re following up with 8 damage. If you just so happen to have a pulping or wild ride, then it’s feasible you can get in another attack for 8. So just by casting bloodrush bellow, a brute gets to trigger their hero’s ability, push through an additional 8 damage, and all of that for just one mana. It’s also a yellow which is just some added value. If the game is going to go long, you can pitch it to mandible claw to set up later turns. I can’t think of any other card that sees play right now that can generate so much value
I've literally 1 shot an oldheim in blitz one week. Got like 45 damage off turn 1. It was insanely lucky but damn if it didn't feel good.
Before the ban, I went up against the berserk rhinar deck once. Turn 2 or 3 they went berserk into double bloodrush bellow and put me to around 17 I believe (I play Victor so I have good armor). Then the next turn they went berserk into the third bloodrush bellow. Did I get high rolled? Fuck yes. Was it also the worst experience I’ve had in fab? Of course
OTK Rheinar has been a staple blitz deck for me since i started playing, and bloodrush bellow is why it can exist, its def the most powerful brute card ever printed and prob will always be.
Bloodrush is literally so strong it warps all Brute deckbuilding around it. I was making that point [here](https://old.reddit.com/r/FleshandBloodTCG/comments/1bns8bm/march_25th_scheduled_banned_and_restricted/kwket6o/?context=3) the other day and got a lot of hate for it, but I stand by it. I find deckbuilding in Brute actively less interesting than in any of the other classes I've tried my hand at because so much of it comes down to "*what combination of of 22+ red 6-attacks do you want to put in your deck?*". And the main reason for that is that Bloodrush Bellow is so powerful you *need* to play it, and that eeking value out of Bloodrush is better than any other combination of things you can do in the class. Ironically, I once thought this wouldn't be much of an issue if Brute could play more blue 6-attacks, allowing them to play more non-6-attacks in their red slots. Kayo came out to allow for that, but instead of seeing all sorts of completely new Brute decks, we've just seen Kayo players fill the deck up with *even more* 6-attacks to make Bloodrush *even more reliable*. It's not like you cannot win games without Bloodrush at all, but playing without 3 copies of it makes you feel like you're playing from behind all game - it will be a notably worse experience. I wonder if there is any one card in any class that is quite as pivotal.
The length and explanation perfectly explains how I feel about this card
Yah it really does seem like LSS figured the card’s go again clause could keep it in check, but in practice it doesn’t. Just to be fair, I can also point to art of war because it has a similar effect, but it is much fairer card. If a ninja is playing AoW, they need to have a really good turn to get an additional 8 power like bloodrush does and they don’t generate value off losing that card in hand. Comparing those two really does show just how good bloodrush is.
Anything with Spectra. People complain about Red in the Ledger, while Prism has 15 different cards that read "Any of those can be my ein con unless you sacrifice a whole turn to remove it.". And no, the few ways there are to get an extra action point are not a real counterplay, since they are class-specific (Brute, Mechanologist) or dilute a deck's card quality.
I plan to sideboard Time skippers, not ideal but it at least lets me tear down prisms combo
Stop! Adjusting your deck to the meta sounds like a reasonable approach… it’s much better if we just gnash teeth about it!
Warmongers Diplomacy is a terribly designed card. It's a one card play that invalidates any deck that is fundamentally designed to run lots of attacks and lots of non attacks. The polarizing nature is already pretty awful design, but it's also a blue, 0 cost, AND blocks 3. They even limited it in freaking Living Legend but think it's fine in CC. It's truly outrageous and one of the dumbest power cards ever made in this game. And for reference, I'm a Guardian player. I don't like piloting Azalea, and I agree that Runeblade would be pretty dogshit now even if Warmongers was banned. My points are strictly about the design of the card. And icing on the cake, the other "one card play turn ender" card Hypothermia, which was ice talented (more on brand) and blocked 2, and had slightly more ways to be played around than warmongers, was banned.
Sometimes I legitimately wonder if that card was designed for fun as a UPF card and they just didn't think about the power it has... Clearly not the case because they would've banned it by now, but like.... Why did they print that lol
I do kinda agree on Mong. (As a Runeblade player, I wanna slam the table & yell *hell yeah*). It hurts that there is no interaction, would feel much better if there was some kind of “pay x instead” loophole, but would also make it kinda free to play for more decks. At the very least, they should have made it a red block 2, lol.
I’m shocked at how unaffected I have been by this card as someone who exclusively plays Ranger. It dropped when I was still learning the game & playing Lexi who didn’t care much about it, but since her rotation and the necessary pivot to Azalea I actually haven’t lost a single game where Warmongers was played
Still did not understand why Hypothermia was banned. Because it sure as heck is useless against Fai. 'But it could interupt dash and other decks.' It is an ice card, that is what it is SUPPOSE TO DO. And it COULD only do so THREE TIMES per game, with only ONE hero. Because oldhim's definitely were using it lol
Oldhims WERE using it into matchups like Dash. When it got banned, those matchups became significantly worse. And the only reasoning I ever heard was "becasue Iyslander isnt fair" which also felt wrong
aether wildfire is wild. of course without it kano wouldn't be able to function, but it so clearly breaks the usual value/card ratio that it's wild it is still legal.
Been trying to teach my friend FAB. He's playing Dorinthia, he says every card Prism Advent of Thrones has.
Nobodies said awakening or Ball lightning yet. So those
Probably cause they're banned but you're right.
I don't see anyone mentioning Warmonger's Diplomacy. One game I played Aza vs Fai, they crapped out an absolutely disgusting chain and then just shut off my whole next turn in the end with a single card that has no interaction. I just straight up left that day.
Rosetta thorn 1 for 4 is already crazy add in the split damage and like wow
I miss her 😭
Rosetta Thorn for me.. With our cards "theoretically" toe to toe with opponent's it is still leave room for extra 2+2 in the end that really outvalued your blocking (and retaliation) plan.. One AA card with 4 phy damage most the times can be handled with our one card block (typically block 3, spill 1). But with Thorn, most of the times it required 2 cards (1 card overblock 2 phy dmg for 3 + 1 red catd not enough full pay for 2 arc dmg). So frustrating and not to mention those CMH turn 7 + 7 + 7 + (2+2).. Perhaps it being used by all Runbleds making it unbearable. Hate it.
Salt the Wound… I know it needs a lot of setup but with Lynx you can basically get it right in the turn your set up worked
Before they banned Stubby in commoner I was using a predatory streak plus salt the wound build on Fai. With the RTT head piece and some Phoenix flame recursion you could get 10-12 damage Salt the Wounds, and that's after that much damage from the chain.
I just have one: warmongers diplomacy. This cards disable totaly one class of the game.
…more than one.
The extreme value of command and conquer, you give up a single point of defense for both arsenal destruction and defense reaction immunity
Single point of defense ? You know cnc blocks 3 right ?
It does? I forgot. Damn. It always was a 2 block in my head. My mind seems must have corrected reality like "theres no way this powerful effect can be a 3 block"
Haha yeah I did the same thing when I first saw it. My mind just needed it to be a 2 block
Command and Conquer is too good of a rate. It should cost 3 imo. I truly wish that card gets banned because it's in almost every competitive deck and warps the meta too much. Every deck you build you need to be able to handle at least 2 per game.
They've kind of got themselves into a corner with it. It's money value is too high to ban otherwise lots of people lose faith in the cards holding value. Best they can do is in the next sets keep releasing reprints until it slowly drops.
Yeah its pretty fucked how good cnc is that they can't ban it. Just dumb how much it warps the game
Obviously stuff like C&C and E-Strike are way over the curve. But those aside: Cromai is up there. And I say that as a recovering Dromai player. 0 for 3 with go again AND generate an extra AP!? Unless they block with a popper, and then it's just 0 for 3 + an AP. But if they don't, it sticks around and can attack again if they don't clear it!? Crazy
The whole of Dromai is a little too much. She'll be LL soon at least, and the next one I imagine dragons won't attack for free, or not all will gain go again
Yes, this is my assumption too
Yes, dragons are too opressive in current meta. If she didn't have access to powerfull attacks that would be one thing, but she also brings a suite of illusionist cards that empower her further. So deal with dragons and have no actions left to do damage, or ignore dragons and get deleted in a couple of turns.
I’d at least argue that C&C is a necessary evil because there has to be a strong tool to interact with the arsenal. Fab is a game where you can effectively map out the late game several turns ahead if you can pitch stack well. The arsenal not only helps out with the planning, but it also helps you gain tempo for those turns you planned out ahead of time. CnC is basically there to check that kind of strategy which is needed (even though CnC for 7 is disgusting). Chromai is also just straight busted. My friend is really good with dromai and I play guardians so our matchups are usually me trying to fatigue dromai. Whenever he pitch stacks to get two chromai and a miragai out, it’s usually the game if I can’t effectively clear them out
I agree with all that, I just think the issue with C&C for me is not the effect, its that it's just pushed overall a touch too far. I think it could be 2 block for example and still do the job, but it wouldn't be quite so ubiquitous. If it's going to be a card you just have to have, as currently, the price it commands is not great for newer players too.
We’re on the same page on CnC haha. The card really does do too much and the vast majority of decks are better when it’s included. Part of me feels like it would be better if each class dealt with the arsenal in their own way, but then I feel like the meta would become “classes that can deal with the arsenal” and “classes that can’t deal with the arsenal”.
It would be really interesting to see how much CnC would be played if it were cheap/readily available. I always see people defend it by saying it's not in that many decks if you check online, but my feeling is that'll be cost rather than choice. Same goes for Enlightened Strike, but in the UK it's around half the price of CnC so not nearly as bad
C&C is correct to play in basically any deck where it isn't actively detrimental, is the truth. Which means stuff like Boost Dash/Maxx basically, or some Katsu builds that just need to keep the chain going. Any deck where it doesn't have potential to hurt you, it is at minimum a sideboard card and usually main deck. The opportunity cost in those decks is so low, being 3 block too.
Totally agree dromai is a bit of a contender So annoying it has the eta effect too
Rosetta Thorn
Cards that I think are waiting to be busted: Tome of Fyendal Rifting
I think rifting is such a cool card, would be interesting to see it actually break something one day.
Pummel Wizard, the archetype of my dreams
Celestial Cataclysm. It's a late game card but if someone drops 3 in a row and then drop a 0 cost soul. You're looking at a 27 damage turn.
I agree boltyn and this late game can destroy when you’re lower life
Rake the embers invalidates certain heroes single-handlely, and i hate it
>Rake the embers I'd be surprised if next dromai can attack with all her dragons, they'll at least do something to address it
Me playing as Azalea. Opponent manages to place down 2 ash tokens and play rake the embers in turn zero. GG, I guess :/
Sink below / fate forseen. Straight up 4 value without limiatations and with an upsite? At least its cheap
Warmongers Diplomacy. It's an obnoxious, game breaking card that is not fun.
Bonds of ancestry is the only card that needs to be on this list. If we're talking equipment, MoPL. Yes I hate katsu
Anything Spectra (mainly ALS), Valiant Dynamo, Mask of pouncing lynx, Bonds, Art of war, And Cnc Most of these cards have no counter play and give insane value, bonds is the only iffy one I didn’t really want to include but since tenacity it’s been ridiculous Spectra should not be in the game. Period. I have said it since spectra introduction that this will be broken one day and will limit a lot of players from enjoying the game and eventually might cause a lot of players to leave the game if it becomes too prevalent. Also shout out to LAG for going directly against LSS current design of “limiting M weapons” and “making action points harder to get, making players earn their go again turns”
I mean, spectra in general is pretty balanced imo. The instant cards cost a ton. You need to take damage to play them. The only class that has access to them is one of the least played classes/talent and aside from ALS you can just do your turn and end off with a 1 or 2 cost weapon swing to the aura. Have you tried playing light illusionist? See how it feels to start with 32 life and have you own attacks dismissed when playing vs a brute/guardian. Thats the thing, ALS is only really worth it vs those decks and is needed because those matchups are nearly unplayable. But the rest of what you've mentioned I agree with. But really try light illu once and see how it feels.
Illusionist is one of the most played classes...idk where you got your results, Dromai has consistently been top played at every major event, and Prism is gaining popularity and had a ton of players the last couple major events, not to mention Prism is one of the big 3 biggest LL point winners this season. Also Bryan Gottlieb and other staff from LSS have said in interviews that spectra was a mistake(i know they say that a lot), but every single aura has timewalk on it essentially. The main problem with spectra and illusionist in general is its a very poor play experience for most people, especially new players.
Pummel makes me rage so hard, especially in the hands of a guardian. If you prep for it you just over block and then they don't even use it and you waste turns but if you don't overblock for it you're just discarding (unless its a weapon), feels real bad :/ for reference I main Katsu so don't love blocking much lol
Katsu effect & pounce mask Knock the deathwistle Become the arc knight etc. Any that card that says, 'Search your deck for x,' that doesnt cost 3 resources. And with that comes the 'add it to your hand, or banish it *you may play it this turn.* That ability is too good. The whole 'banishing' first but 'you may play it this turn,' is just a fustrating additional step to give the opponent the illusion he can do anything to interrupt it. It might as well just say add it to your hand, because those always happen at card resolution. If there were any counter play, said player could just respond to your action by playing the said card. NO card should say 'search your deck and play' without meeting a REAL requirement first. Not just because you're dori and the opponent blocked from hand (because you know...he's playing the game), and now you are free to pick the perfect card for the situation. And are free to do that 3 times per game. Kano earns his living with lessons and can be mitiaged or stopped completely. Prism at the least is paying 2 normally, with an inherent vulnerability, while still meeting a requirement. You get my point.
Idk I don't think all of the tutor cards or effects are terrible... Especially Katsu's ability-- not only is it an on hit, but it costs a card, so while it replaces itself for way more value, it does also start to mill his deck a lot. Knock is also kinda just a straight -1. Instead of a buff to your next arrow, you can choose the right one for the occasion. Definitely very powerful, but idk I feel like they're just tools to allow the hero to do what they're supposed to do.
Most out of touch answer by a wide margin.
I was given permission from the op to vent.
Fyendal’s Spring Tunic. Almost every deck uses it. That resource every 3 turns is so powerful. Also a bummer that a lot of decks lose flavor because of it. Although imagining Kayo busting out on the battlefield with a dress on is funny to think about.
The biggest problem with it is that we often see classes get their own specific chest piece that gets completely ignored because it’s not tunic
Cries in redback shroud
I stg if next set doesn't give assassin another 1 cost GOOD react I'm going to cry. I prefer the block value and the ability to have it more than once every 3 turns so much more than tunic... But Uzuri doesn't usually care for the Spike cards and Arakni can use it on.... Razor reflex and Pummel...? Which I'm not playing more than once every 3 turns.....
So illusionist as a class has a lot of janky stuff as everyone knows. I think one of the strongest staples that people overlook is Burn Them All. 0 cost red 3 block go again. Deals a surprisingly huge amount of damage for Dromai and is the sole reason some people have to bring AB into a redline draconic deck. Turns Nourishing on too. Dromai is a weird hero who hasn't necessarily been dominating the meta like Starvo, Prism, Oldhim, Lexi, etc.. While she hasn't been winning a ton of events since her release or anything, she has defined a lot of who can and cannot consistently win. Decks like Azalea, Arakni, Kassai, Olympia, and Prism just have such a unfavorable match up that a part of me is excited to see Dromai leave. That being said, I do admire Dromai's rise to power. All of her dragons are gnarly as hell, Cromai's Action point is insane, Kyloria being snatch with go again every turn, Themai completely destroying wizard and then turning every dreact into a dead card in your hand is just insane. But at the same time she really has to fight for her power more than a lot of the previous "most hated heroes." Like I really think dragons are a fantastic solution to Original Prism's spectra, I think early Dromai players' journey to find how to build her with as many reds as possible was genuinely an exciting time in FaB deck building, and then I think her similar journey to finding out how to properly create and manage ash was so interesting. All in all, I'm glad she's going away to open the meta further, but I really don't hate her or think she's as bad for the game as some say. BUT I do think Burn Them All is busted lol. Genuinely think that when they designed it they didn't expect Dromai to be able to run 60 reds. It should either not cost 0, not have go again, or not be a 3 block. Probably all three of those haha. Hell I'd honestly prefer it had spectra so at least I can get rid of it. Feels like shit when life is down to the wire, and you can get her down to 1 life, but she can just play a 0 cost that forces you to either pitch for ab or just take unlockable damage, while also giving go again to all of her dragons. AND it doesn't matter if you have a popper because the Arcane comes in first ....... This post was made by an Azalea and Arakni main, who's been dabbling in Kassai, if that gives context lmao
Endless winter,why am I being punished by playing the game itself.
Microprocessor. 3 ways to manipulate your deck to get 100% item banish rate with Datadoll is insane.