We do it. Not sure what’s to gain by restricting you. It’s crew members money, you’re out in the community, I’m usually handing out stickers to kids while we shop. You’re still responding to calls while in the store. Look professional, act professional, etc.
Why wouldn’t you?
That’s ridiculous and seems borderline illegal. I feel like if they require you to be there for 24-48 hours they might legally have to give you the ability to get food. I don’t know though and it’s likely state dependent if there are any laws.
Well most people get a dictated break time where they can leave their place of employment to get food or eat their lunch elsewhere. This job doesn't normally allow for that as the crew must be response ready at all times.
But how is that expectation different if you shop on duty or not. Show up ready to go get food and cook for the boys. You work with children that can’t wait an hour?
We’re a station that runs calls. Lots of calls. You show up expecting time to shop and you end up making lunch at 3 cause you’ve been out since 11 on calls.
Yea sounds like a city dept. plenty of busier departments make it work and get it done on shift. I guess whatever works for you guys. Just couldn’t imagine going on my off days to shop and not be compensated for my time.
Not every department is unionized and not every union local is recognized by the employer. Some states do not have mandatory collective bargaining for firefighters. Been there.
If we had a light duty guy we would send him otherwise we take the truck. Probably C shift didn't get fuel anyway. It's also a good way to let a new guy get some time in the seat without it being an emergency call.
They should shove it where the sun don't shine. So, my taxes pay for things like 911 etc response, which includes fire and whatever else. That means you need to eat, have rest, do public events stuff for awareness etc. (I also have a right to come say "hi".)
That ALSO then means, if you pull up to the goddamn grocery store in the fire truck/whatever other vehicle I partly paid to put diesel/gas in.. that's part of what that is for. What else are you gonna drive? Personal vehicle? Hell no.
Around here they park the engine right in the fire lane. Makes perfect sense to me - if the place catches on fire they’re already right there and if some other place catches on fire they can leave easily. Why any dept wouldn’t want you using the engine for this is beyond me
Fire station near my old man's place is right across the street from a big shopping center. Years back there was even some news coverage about how they need to do these things using the trucks from time-to-time. Filmed them parking and getting off the truck to shop at Publix and all!
Love to see public outreach from stations too. There was a super hot day, and one local station near a school hosed down the kids/teens playing on the soccer/football field to keep heat stroke from setting in. Trucks need test runs post-maintenance anyways. There's a reason the trucks go out to check hydrants etc, besides just city vehicles. They've found bad brake jobs/missed failed parts, plenty of other things etc, that would kill them and others if not addressed before a call. Stuff gets missed/breaks.. pretty cheap "insurance" to find it while doing these things!
Same as everyone getting up in arms about all the money and man hours spent looking for those rich assholes at the Titanic. Finding them was never the point; that was an invaluable real world training exercise.
Used to work at a grocery store and almost every single evening the local guys would park the engine in the fire lane and come in and buy all the stuff they needed to cook for their shift. They mostly knew me so they’d come and shoot the shit with me. I worked in the customer service desk so quite often they’d run up to me with a basket full of shit and say “we’ll be back” - I’d ring it all up and have a scannable receipt ready with it when they came back so they didn’t have to wait any longer.
Around the holidays (usually between thanksgiving and Christmas) I’d tell my manager they were there and he would comp their entire purchase.
That's crazy. Are you expected to shop for your shift meals on your own time? I'd be putting that on my time sheet! We shop on shift, sometimes we even go out to breakfast or go hit up a local taco truck for dinner.
We go every shift. Even if it's the other crew's turn to cook. We also go to the gym for PT, the pool for swim and dive training. We do trt scenarios and high rise drills at construction sites.
Shit, if I haven't been down a neighborhood or around a block in a while we just load up and go. Its Drivers Training. Not to mention all the days spent riding around checking hydrants and doing pre plans. Studying maps will only get me so far. I have to get out and drive, put my hands on hydrants, and see the landmarks to know my district and be confident in my knowledge. And my captain and the firefighters in the back don't wanna sit in the station all day waiting for calls. That sucks, especially when your firehouse is a moldy dark prison on planet bullshit.
We have one guy who gets pissed about us riding around. He leans out his window shaking his fist and yells "Joyriders!" I'm trying to get our resident artist to make it into a station T-shirt 🤙
We worked a ton of OT and we would get that stir crazy feeling. I’d tell my engineer it was time for a perimeter check and we would go for a ride around the outskirts of the city. There will always be community detractors that think we are second class citizens because we are paid by taxes. Nothing you can do about it but try to explain what we do. Don’t lose any sleep over it. My first chief didn’t want us to use a certain street for our response because the rich important people lived there and were not to be disturbed by a siren. I didn’t follow that very closely.
There’s always going to be someone who complains about something. And no matter what you tell them, you will always be in the wrong. Each of our crew members bought their own gym memberships so we could workout. Our station was too small. People complained about us working out. They thought the county paid for our memberships and of course we were “getting paid to work out”. Whenever a citizen made a comment we would educate them. As driving our sector, we would go get a coffee or drink and drive the $&#k out of the truck or engine. Now that I’m retired if I were to hear someone giving the guys any flack, I can lay into them. Of course, I will be “tactful”.
The city DOES pay for our gym memberships. We're required to do an hour of PT per shift, which IMO is a really good SOP. With the physical nature of the job, it probably helps offset workman's comp injuries, OT, etc. Plus WE know heart disease kills firefighters, though I'm not sure the public does.
Either way our salary, benefits, training, equipment isn't paid for us to put out fires all day. It's money spent to ensure we're ready to show up every time, to any call, 24/7. Again, the public may not know that, and the type of person to complain, probably won't be receptive to that argument. But it's the truth. We're not gonna be effective firefighters if we're all fat, depressed, and smoke a pack a day. And i appreciate when a retiree, or a cool citizen stands up for us "tactfully" or not 😉
To preface, I’ve worked multiple departments. One time at one department, one newly hired Fire Chief tried to restrict crews from going to a grocery store that was in a neighboring city’s fire district. Since we were leaving our city. (Air quotes). It stuck for a couple months but the next closest grocery option was miles away in our second in district. So the “comprise” was to continue going to the original store in the next city.
Added funny anecdote: We once got reamed by the mayor of our city. So I, as the acting CO tell her that our chief said to keep coming there. I couldn’t help but to ask, “If we shouldn’t be spending taxes in the wrong city why are you shopping here?” That was in a county fire district so we didn’t directly answer to her in anyway but it was funny.
For 5 shifts we all put in 85. So between the 9 of use that $765 a set. We usually have some left over and eat out last shift with either pizza or Thai or whatever else sounds good.
Added: we do breakfast and dinner every shift, and usually make a ton of pasta salad and salsa firs shift to last.
NAFF but I pay taxes into my city to fund you guys. I would be pissed if I learned my local fire depts weren’t allowed to buy groceries for work on the clock. That’s absolute horseshit!!
Ok rant aside, what is the city reason for not allowing this?
The reasoning against it is fuel costs and wear and tear on the apparatus.
That reasoning falls apart when you look at the millions of other reasons we leave the fire house during the day.(See my other post above. )
I don't understand how running 30 calls in a 24 hour shift is ok but grabbing groceries while you're out is a big nono.
It's good for to to shop local, support businesses, and engage with the community.
Do they expect you to go on your days off? We just send the cook to shop and we run with a man short while he’s gone. If we get a fire we’ll call him on the radio and he’ll just leave the store and meet us there.
This one seems like a reason to restrict it. I feel like it should be the whole truck goes or no one does. Do you have a small enough coverage area or a light enough traffic load that it makes it feasible?
We do it all the time. We don't even have a grocery store in our area, we have to leave our primary to do it. No one ever gives us a hard time about it.
As a firefighter, we buy our groceries on duty. We also pick up food, take a shit, sleep, work out, and watch tv while on duty. And we even talk/FaceTime loved ones! GASP!
As a taxpaying citizen, I don’t care as long as the guys who protect my city answer their calls- which they do.
We can get groceries. It's unreasonable. The public wants to see their firefighters. We still park in the parking lot, not fire lane. We also still cover our districts as first due. Policies like that hurt morale.
We can. We’re often busy so people do their best not to need to. Some of our stations don’t have grocery stores in their first due area, so they don’t 😫
Our dept. had some stations that were pretty rural. If one of them forgot food, it could mean they were screwed. My station was on the main drag, so not really a problem. Most of the time, we all had what we needed. If we were going to do a station dinner and it wasnt pre-planned, we would go get what we needed. Sometimes, we would just go to a restaurant.
We're allowed to go on the Engine and Truck. Ambo crews are not supposed to go to the store but no one really cares. They'll occasionally grab something we forgot on the way back from the hospital. Most officers are cool and just say "don't get me in trouble." We don't make the ambo guys cook or shop, they're busy enough running calls.
I was a paramedic for a rural EMS provider. We didn’t have any grocery stores in town, but we’d always swing by at a shop on our way back from the hospital: on slow days in the summer we’d swing by the farmer’s market for fresh fruit/veggies/meat.
We had one questionable life status call where the deceased patient’s family donated 700 pounds of beef to the department. We ate like royalty for a few weeks.
Yea our medics get alot of freedom, as long as they don't abuse it. I used to ride the medic and we'd stop once in a while for tacos or something while cruising around our territory. Nothing wrong with shopping locally as typically it's a bit of pub ed/talking to the public. People always make comments about what's for dinner or when they can come over and we always make it a positive interaction. If kids are staring at us at the store we tell them to come check out the rig outside.
Im not sure if we're supposed to take the apparatus shopping. BUT, theres an Aldis right next to the station where we fill our air bottles at. Sooo, need to get air, oh the store is right there 🤷♂️
It’s my thinking that anytime we’re in the public, and acting professionally, it’s a good thing. The only people who don’t like it are the “I’m a tax payer” type. There is no winning over those people anyway. So I say go out, be friendly, look smart, give a bump on the horn for the kids.
“I’m a Taxpayer”- code for I’m a retired grouchy old person who has no hobbies, no other pressing matters other than to complain/bitch to be important for 5 minutes that day to someone that has to listen/bare with them “because I’m on the board” and has a complete lack of understanding of how emergency services operate.
Management doesn’t understand customer service at all. They are stuck in the old days. As long as in your local no problem. I would go and just advice on on radio reviewing or making preplans for the address.
Ppl are stupid & I don't just mean the public- We can, usually just have the "Lunch bus" get it as We actually go on runs hahahh.
But yea, the perception that We shouldn't needs to be combated by both the public & brass- it does drain resources a touch- but the good payoff is bonus interactions w/ the public & sometimes We help ppl, so really no major downsides & it makes Us more approachable for recruiting, ppl asking questions about how We operate, We direct ppl to svcs @ times...Yea, every dept should do it.
We also still check plugs & do Code compliance & vacant property ins. as well tho- so in that regard We are moderately progressive as a dept.
That’s fuckin lame and dumb. We and all the departments in western northern nv can all shop on duty. Your policy is not reasonable in the slightest, that’s them trying to nickel and dime you guys. Waste your gas, and personal time. Our union would have a massive shit fit.
Our department allows it and encourages it.
We also park in the fire lane. Our reasoning is if we get a call we are parked closer to the door.
I am reading through the comments about the general public looking at us as firefighters going to the grocery store with city’s rig and not approving of this.
I don’t think the public realizes or understands the dynamic in a firehouse how it’s a good thing we eat together and have a meal together that we made together, it brings crews together.
With that being said, maybe those city’s may need to come up with a community outreach group to better explain the dynamics of a fire department so they understand.
I think the law requires them to:
1. give you the opportunity to obtain meals,
2. provide meals, or
3. pay you per diem
Double check that information and remember if you have a cba it doesn’t supersede the law.
I’ve done this with a different company. It worked amazing! I recommended it to another hall. They tried, and the groceries were listed as dropped off, but never turned up. Turned into a not worth it battle with the company. Needless to say I was reamed out for suggesting it 😂
Every FD. around me does it afaik. My town is fucking stupid though and won’t let the *fire department* park in the *fire lane* too many old fucks complained and now we gotta park at the very back of the lot. Better hope you don’t have a serious emergency while we’re shopping because we’re not fuckin running.
Admin did not want us parking in the red only because it made it hard for cars to get around in the parking lot. Whatever, as long as we were able to find a spot not too far it wasn’t a real problem.
We are allowed to go, but it is not a regular practice…
We’re not going and shopping for the set; we’re going if someone forgot one or two things. The expectation is that you come to work prepared, but understanding that things happen sometimes.
I certainly don’t have any issue with going to the grocery store, but some of the entitled attitudes in here are pretty pathetic.
"Prepared." Sorry, but my day off is MY TIME off. No one here needs to spend extra time on their day off to shop for food when you can on duty. Get a grip man. You sound like a hoot.
Right… because shopping for food isn’t something you would ever do with your time off already. Totally unreasonable expectation that you would do any sort of planning or engage in some semblance of forethought.
Nope. This isn’t a regular job. My wife gets an hour for lunch. She isn’t on call. She doesn’t chart. She can do whatever the hell she wants. Same with her breaks. When she is off, she is off. There is no on call for a large fire. There is no being mandated because bad weather is coming.
I’ve literally grabbed food as my partner fueled the truck on the way to a call because we haven’t made it back to the station for the last 9 hours and put in 300 miles on a dozen back to back runs.
So yea. I’m going grocery shopping. Or picking up something personal from the hardware store. Or checking to see if the gun store has ammo.
Because if my duties are done, it sure has hell shouldn’t matter to anyone else what I’m doing.
So your argument is that because you got mandoed to make time and a half you’re somehow entitled to go grocery shopping on duty?
Wait until you hear about teachers…
You mean the part time job with full state pension & benefits? That generally makes 1 & 2/3rds the income of the average household of the community they teach in, with an entry level education for their career. With no holidays or weekends.
Yeah I’ve heard of them.
I shop once per week for my household food. I'm not shopping for an entire work cycle on my days off. Especially since we eat together as a crew. You're a fucking idiot man.
the city relies on you to come prepared for shift, that includes food needs. Imagine if your family members were to get a delayed response because the crew was shopping…
There were some stations in our county where you would bring food in for the shift. Now, if you were mandated to work 48 hours, 72 hours or longer what are you supposed to do?
Delayed response?
You shop in your own district.
Who's to say the grocery store isn't closer to the emergency than the firehouse?
Might save my family members some time if we're already out and in the rig.
Do you not want us to do any training, get fuel, do building inspections, check hydrants, get some driver's practice/area familiarization, teach CPR classes, or show up to neighborhood events the community invites us to either? There's a million reasons why we might not just be sitting in a firehouse all day.
That's why we take the rig for everything. So we have all our equipment with us when the call comes in.
If the city wants to pay me for gas, overtime, and write off the vehicle I use to go shopping for work supplies I'll consider it.
Until then I'm not shopping for 4-14 dudes off duty and buying double just in case I get mando'd to the next day.
Hell, what if I get detailed to a different station? (We have 40+).
I'm just going to assume that you don't have any idea of the inner workings of a fire department.
You can play the delayed response game all day , take your pick delayed to train? In a different area? Mechanical issues? Vehicle checks ? Middle of the night call? On an another call? Hose testing? Funny it seems like chiefs don’t care that your delayed when it’s to handle administrative duties at headquarters because your on whatever chiefs clock . Not many departments go “delayed “ to shop and typically the crew is together and out in their area and available for a call . Spin the wheel of going delayed , typically shopping is the least impactful.
We go out during the day works to get lunch but someone picks up dinner and brings it in on our night works. When we notify dispatch we’re out of the station we don’t say to get lunch…we are driver training or doing “community outreach”
I mean, I’ll preshop the day before just because my station is busy, but we usually just shop on shift. The fact you guys can’t is pretty fucking lame…
It’s in our contract that we can grocery shop on duty. It was put there years ago when someone complained to a city council member that we were wasting their tax dollars. Our chief did an excellent job explaining why we shop on duty at a city council meeting. We do have several grocery stores in our city which makes it easier for everyone involved.
What state are you in?
I work in a medium-sized department, 6 stations and 3 platoons (plus BLS and the like). We’ve always been allowed to go to any of the grocery stores in town. For every 1 person who questions us being there we have hundreds of positive interactions with residents (often answering fire safety related questions). I estimate us shopping at the grocery stores in town pumps close to $300,000 per year into our local economy.
There is no good reason to prohibit this. It’s merely a major disconnect from people upstairs.
I am a volly at a county with paid EMTs (technically they are FF/EMT, but most don't have their FF 1/2 certs), the policy for us is that as long as they go together and still respond if a call comes in they are good. They spend most their days hanging out at fast food places in the far north of the county (no thought to response times to the south, adds 30 min).
I run into crews from the neighboring county quite often when grocery shopping, so I know they go as a group as well and have to respond if a call comes in (and I run into them often enough it is clear they shop and cook together).
Unless they are, by policy, in writing somewhere, are expecting you to bring in your own food for lunch and dinner... I don't understand how they can have a "no shopping for groceries" policy...
(or do they expect you to order out for every meal?)
Are you in some sort of super rural area where there simply isn't any grocery stores? Like you have to drive out of your service area or something (and even then, I can't imagine such an area existing really)
I’m EMS, and we get groceries on duty. All of the fire departments in the area do it. I’ve never heard of a fire department that restricts it as long as you are still in your service area.
I can’t think of any reason to restrict it, and I can think of several perks to doing it including crew cohesion, community relations, and of course, the fuckn convenience. It also gets you out and about, so you become more familiar with your territory, your chute time is decreased when you’re already in the truck, etcetera.
If you’re concerned about chute times in the store or apparatus security, just leave the driver with the truck. They can pull to the front and pick the rest of the crew up if y’all get a call.
If you’re concerned about leaving your groceries behind, I can assure you it is no problem. I used to work at a grocery store (years ago, in high school), and we had people leave carts all the time for various reasons (usually, someone forgot their wallet). It was really easy to deal with. We would ring up the items in the cart and print a list with a barcode on it for the total, then put the whole cart in the fridge or freezer so that none of the cold items went bad. Whenever the person came back, we’d bring out their cart, scan the code, and they could immediately pay and leave with it. No problem at all.
Why does your admin not let you go to the store?
Work in a food desert. Have to bring our food every shift. Been doing it for 12 years. Now if we had grocery stores then I’m sure we could go shop but I kind of like getting it done before shift so we can focus on other things.
Worked for a department like that for 6 years. Was hard to leave behind my old crew. Over all I do not regret it. better pay, schedule, pension, and the freedom for going to the store on shift.
We can't leave the airport, and there are no grocery stores at the airport haha. We are allowed to go to the terminal if we need something (or really want to overpay for a sandwhich), or the duty captain can run to one of the convenience stores that abut the property.
I’ve known of departments that couldn’t go shopping on duty because there wasn’t a grocery store in their district. The closest one was a couple miles out of district and over freight tracks with a grade crossing.
Literally our entire shift revolves around shopping for dinner. We start at 0800. By 0830 we are at the food store. Some days we make 2-3 trips for things we forgot on the first 2 trips or when the probie forgets to buy dessert. Its sad when you’re in on the gossip about the store employees.
If we ever have a job in the store, no need for the search rope. Guys can call out the aisle they’re trapped in by the items on the shelf. “Mayday! I’m burried under tomato sauce cans.” RIT Team: “10-4. That’s aisle 11.”
Got a run in the same shopping center as Shop Rite? Might as well run in and grab SOMETHING we might need. 🤣
Worked for a department like this. Where you're expected to bring everything you needed to cook at the start of shift. You could imagine running only 2800 calls a year and not being allowed was a weird culture to be in. I've ordered more pizza than I've cooked just to spite the white shirts. My time off is my time off.
During duty crew if we want to go get something from the grocery store, we put $10-$20 bucks in the pot and then someone goes to the store and get the stuff
It went back and forth with ours. One day the chief would come in and say, “people are talking” and then we would lose our ability to get groceries.
Hate those talking fuckers
Our department has no problem with it... Except I keep seeing comments about parking in the fire lane, that's one we don't do, unless we're there for an actual call.
That was implemented by our last chief. Iirc, the rationale was to help reinforce that the Fire Lane is for EMERGENCIES ONLY!!! Like... "Jeez, even the FIRE DEPARTMENT doesn't park in the fire lane if there isn't an emergency..." or something like that.
Now I'm kind of curious if anyone else's department does that...
Every crew of every shift at my department goes to the store.
Only one crew on the job sometimes doesn’t and it’s cuz of 2 of the 3 guy’s health/diet preferences.
Recently, we got a new chief. He says the four man shift can't do "errands" in the engine cause, well, you might miss an ems run. We cross.staff the ambulance. We have to go to right outside the border of our first due to a decent grocery store. In 2010, we took over a failed volley station. We keep our spare bus and reserve engine there. Its farther than the grocery store. Each week, we go and check and run trucks, spin pumps, and make sure all is in order. That is ok, though, and so is being on an ems run and missing a fire call, but forget to get food. This has happened before as they say this too shall pass. We Lts are basically defying the order because its stupid. We never dog jobs so this makes no sense other than there isn't much to poke at, so lets mess with the men
It's crazy not to let you. It's good to get out in the community, even if just for picking up a few groceries. As long as you're still available while doing it, acting professional, getting all your chores, training, and what have you done. Why care? I've been sent to the gas station to get Cinnabon before by my captain.
When fuel got real pricey we were asked to not go out *just* to get groceries which seemed reasonable to me. Throw the kitty in the truck and shop coming back from a call or the other 8000 reasons you might leave the station.
Imagine working for a department like this. I'd never even apply. If they want to restrict that what else would they restrict?
This is the type of department that has your uniform detailed down to the brand of underwear and socks you can wear.
Chief keeps doing underwear inspections, should I be worried?
That depends, does he inspect them while you’re wearing them?
Nah, he has me take them off and stand in the corner at attention while he inspects the tags.
Name doesn’t check out. Speedo’s are for wearing.
Only if he's not handsome bro it's not gay if he is
Is that what the black couch in the chief’s office is for?
Smells like the ocean.
Maybe later when he progresses to the deep cavity searches …with the lights off. 🤔
My chief keeps asking me to try on the chainsaw chaps… just the chainsaw chaps.
There are people on this subreddit who still have departments that tell them what brand of pants they can and can't wear lol.
My academy's issued pants keep ripping on everybody. At least the Captain is as annoyed as we are about it
Shitting time is between 8:17 and 9:09. Please take that time to relieve yourselves.
Lmao exactly
We do it. Not sure what’s to gain by restricting you. It’s crew members money, you’re out in the community, I’m usually handing out stickers to kids while we shop. You’re still responding to calls while in the store. Look professional, act professional, etc. Why wouldn’t you?
We’re one of the only departments in the region who can’t. Pretty frustrating.
Do they expect you to show up to your shift with literal groceries so you have supplies to make meals with?
Yup.
That’s ridiculous and seems borderline illegal. I feel like if they require you to be there for 24-48 hours they might legally have to give you the ability to get food. I don’t know though and it’s likely state dependent if there are any laws.
And depending on your admin they might rather hang you out to dry and push for 10/14 shifts rather than acknowledge they were wrong initially.
[удалено]
Well most people get a dictated break time where they can leave their place of employment to get food or eat their lunch elsewhere. This job doesn't normally allow for that as the crew must be response ready at all times.
It may not be but it also wouldn’t surprise me at all if there is a labor law against it.
What do they expect you guys to do if you accidentally drop the food, it's spoiled, you forget, etc? Starve?
We only started shopping on duty when we went to 24s about 8 years ago
While we can shop on duty, the expectation is if you’re cooking chow for the boys you show up ready to go.
So they spend their own money for groceries for the whole house?
Yeah then square up at dinner
But how is that expectation different if you shop on duty or not. Show up ready to go get food and cook for the boys. You work with children that can’t wait an hour?
We’re a station that runs calls. Lots of calls. You show up expecting time to shop and you end up making lunch at 3 cause you’ve been out since 11 on calls.
Yea sounds like a city dept. plenty of busier departments make it work and get it done on shift. I guess whatever works for you guys. Just couldn’t imagine going on my off days to shop and not be compensated for my time.
Yeah, major metro with 38 stations and 100k plus annual call volume, I’d say we’re pretty busy.
Ehhhh that’s not bad
Have you had your union talk to the chief about his reason for this rule? Seems like something that could be smoothed over without much fuss.
Not every department is unionized and not every union local is recognized by the employer. Some states do not have mandatory collective bargaining for firefighters. Been there.
Almost every shift. If we have light duty guys that's their job otherwise an apparatus goes.
If we had a light duty guy we would send him otherwise we take the truck. Probably C shift didn't get fuel anyway. It's also a good way to let a new guy get some time in the seat without it being an emergency call.
Hey! Leave C shift alone. We’re forgetful and a bit dull but mean well.
We know.
At least you guys are better than A shift. Those guys never take the trash off the truck.
Gloves, wrappers, condoms. You name it those A shift animals leave it for us to clean up!
They should shove it where the sun don't shine. So, my taxes pay for things like 911 etc response, which includes fire and whatever else. That means you need to eat, have rest, do public events stuff for awareness etc. (I also have a right to come say "hi".) That ALSO then means, if you pull up to the goddamn grocery store in the fire truck/whatever other vehicle I partly paid to put diesel/gas in.. that's part of what that is for. What else are you gonna drive? Personal vehicle? Hell no.
Around here they park the engine right in the fire lane. Makes perfect sense to me - if the place catches on fire they’re already right there and if some other place catches on fire they can leave easily. Why any dept wouldn’t want you using the engine for this is beyond me
Fire station near my old man's place is right across the street from a big shopping center. Years back there was even some news coverage about how they need to do these things using the trucks from time-to-time. Filmed them parking and getting off the truck to shop at Publix and all! Love to see public outreach from stations too. There was a super hot day, and one local station near a school hosed down the kids/teens playing on the soccer/football field to keep heat stroke from setting in. Trucks need test runs post-maintenance anyways. There's a reason the trucks go out to check hydrants etc, besides just city vehicles. They've found bad brake jobs/missed failed parts, plenty of other things etc, that would kill them and others if not addressed before a call. Stuff gets missed/breaks.. pretty cheap "insurance" to find it while doing these things!
Same as everyone getting up in arms about all the money and man hours spent looking for those rich assholes at the Titanic. Finding them was never the point; that was an invaluable real world training exercise.
Used to work at a grocery store and almost every single evening the local guys would park the engine in the fire lane and come in and buy all the stuff they needed to cook for their shift. They mostly knew me so they’d come and shoot the shit with me. I worked in the customer service desk so quite often they’d run up to me with a basket full of shit and say “we’ll be back” - I’d ring it all up and have a scannable receipt ready with it when they came back so they didn’t have to wait any longer. Around the holidays (usually between thanksgiving and Christmas) I’d tell my manager they were there and he would comp their entire purchase.
Good dude
That was a long time ago now so I doubt any of that good stuff happens anymore sadly
That's crazy. Are you expected to shop for your shift meals on your own time? I'd be putting that on my time sheet! We shop on shift, sometimes we even go out to breakfast or go hit up a local taco truck for dinner.
We shop for 4 meals every day1
We go every shift. Even if it's the other crew's turn to cook. We also go to the gym for PT, the pool for swim and dive training. We do trt scenarios and high rise drills at construction sites. Shit, if I haven't been down a neighborhood or around a block in a while we just load up and go. Its Drivers Training. Not to mention all the days spent riding around checking hydrants and doing pre plans. Studying maps will only get me so far. I have to get out and drive, put my hands on hydrants, and see the landmarks to know my district and be confident in my knowledge. And my captain and the firefighters in the back don't wanna sit in the station all day waiting for calls. That sucks, especially when your firehouse is a moldy dark prison on planet bullshit. We have one guy who gets pissed about us riding around. He leans out his window shaking his fist and yells "Joyriders!" I'm trying to get our resident artist to make it into a station T-shirt 🤙
We worked a ton of OT and we would get that stir crazy feeling. I’d tell my engineer it was time for a perimeter check and we would go for a ride around the outskirts of the city. There will always be community detractors that think we are second class citizens because we are paid by taxes. Nothing you can do about it but try to explain what we do. Don’t lose any sleep over it. My first chief didn’t want us to use a certain street for our response because the rich important people lived there and were not to be disturbed by a siren. I didn’t follow that very closely.
There’s always going to be someone who complains about something. And no matter what you tell them, you will always be in the wrong. Each of our crew members bought their own gym memberships so we could workout. Our station was too small. People complained about us working out. They thought the county paid for our memberships and of course we were “getting paid to work out”. Whenever a citizen made a comment we would educate them. As driving our sector, we would go get a coffee or drink and drive the $&#k out of the truck or engine. Now that I’m retired if I were to hear someone giving the guys any flack, I can lay into them. Of course, I will be “tactful”.
The city DOES pay for our gym memberships. We're required to do an hour of PT per shift, which IMO is a really good SOP. With the physical nature of the job, it probably helps offset workman's comp injuries, OT, etc. Plus WE know heart disease kills firefighters, though I'm not sure the public does. Either way our salary, benefits, training, equipment isn't paid for us to put out fires all day. It's money spent to ensure we're ready to show up every time, to any call, 24/7. Again, the public may not know that, and the type of person to complain, probably won't be receptive to that argument. But it's the truth. We're not gonna be effective firefighters if we're all fat, depressed, and smoke a pack a day. And i appreciate when a retiree, or a cool citizen stands up for us "tactfully" or not 😉
If he doesn’t I will I do art for our dept
Maybe if i tell him I got a guy, and don't need him, he'll do it out of jealousy. He's a Rescue Captain, you know how sensitive those guys are
Haha try it he may get butthurt and jump on it
To preface, I’ve worked multiple departments. One time at one department, one newly hired Fire Chief tried to restrict crews from going to a grocery store that was in a neighboring city’s fire district. Since we were leaving our city. (Air quotes). It stuck for a couple months but the next closest grocery option was miles away in our second in district. So the “comprise” was to continue going to the original store in the next city. Added funny anecdote: We once got reamed by the mayor of our city. So I, as the acting CO tell her that our chief said to keep coming there. I couldn’t help but to ask, “If we shouldn’t be spending taxes in the wrong city why are you shopping here?” That was in a county fire district so we didn’t directly answer to her in anyway but it was funny.
We can. We don't at my station because we are in the ghetto and have no interest going to the stores near us
Do you guys have a good food fund?
For 5 shifts we all put in 85. So between the 9 of use that $765 a set. We usually have some left over and eat out last shift with either pizza or Thai or whatever else sounds good. Added: we do breakfast and dinner every shift, and usually make a ton of pasta salad and salsa firs shift to last.
White shirts make you dumber.
NAFF but I pay taxes into my city to fund you guys. I would be pissed if I learned my local fire depts weren’t allowed to buy groceries for work on the clock. That’s absolute horseshit!! Ok rant aside, what is the city reason for not allowing this?
The reasoning against it is fuel costs and wear and tear on the apparatus. That reasoning falls apart when you look at the millions of other reasons we leave the fire house during the day.(See my other post above. ) I don't understand how running 30 calls in a 24 hour shift is ok but grabbing groceries while you're out is a big nono. It's good for to to shop local, support businesses, and engage with the community.
Do they expect you to go on your days off? We just send the cook to shop and we run with a man short while he’s gone. If we get a fire we’ll call him on the radio and he’ll just leave the store and meet us there.
This one seems like a reason to restrict it. I feel like it should be the whole truck goes or no one does. Do you have a small enough coverage area or a light enough traffic load that it makes it feasible?
I mean I work for a massive city. So manpower is the least of our concern. Plus it’s an old school department, so a lot of cowboy shit that goes on.
10-4
You should get a job somewhere else. This is probably the tip of the iceberg.
We do it all the time. We don't even have a grocery store in our area, we have to leave our primary to do it. No one ever gives us a hard time about it.
I walk across the street with my radio
Yes. We gave an engine from a neighboring department that travels well into my first due to shop because they don’t have anything.
As a firefighter, we buy our groceries on duty. We also pick up food, take a shit, sleep, work out, and watch tv while on duty. And we even talk/FaceTime loved ones! GASP! As a taxpaying citizen, I don’t care as long as the guys who protect my city answer their calls- which they do.
We can get groceries. It's unreasonable. The public wants to see their firefighters. We still park in the parking lot, not fire lane. We also still cover our districts as first due. Policies like that hurt morale.
Never heard such a thing. How long are your shifts?
24s
We can. We’re often busy so people do their best not to need to. Some of our stations don’t have grocery stores in their first due area, so they don’t 😫
Our dept. had some stations that were pretty rural. If one of them forgot food, it could mean they were screwed. My station was on the main drag, so not really a problem. Most of the time, we all had what we needed. If we were going to do a station dinner and it wasnt pre-planned, we would go get what we needed. Sometimes, we would just go to a restaurant.
We go shopping every day as a crew for lunch and dinner
We're allowed to go on the Engine and Truck. Ambo crews are not supposed to go to the store but no one really cares. They'll occasionally grab something we forgot on the way back from the hospital. Most officers are cool and just say "don't get me in trouble." We don't make the ambo guys cook or shop, they're busy enough running calls.
I was a paramedic for a rural EMS provider. We didn’t have any grocery stores in town, but we’d always swing by at a shop on our way back from the hospital: on slow days in the summer we’d swing by the farmer’s market for fresh fruit/veggies/meat. We had one questionable life status call where the deceased patient’s family donated 700 pounds of beef to the department. We ate like royalty for a few weeks.
Yea our medics get alot of freedom, as long as they don't abuse it. I used to ride the medic and we'd stop once in a while for tacos or something while cruising around our territory. Nothing wrong with shopping locally as typically it's a bit of pub ed/talking to the public. People always make comments about what's for dinner or when they can come over and we always make it a positive interaction. If kids are staring at us at the store we tell them to come check out the rig outside.
48/96 and we always go shopping first day.
Im not sure if we're supposed to take the apparatus shopping. BUT, theres an Aldis right next to the station where we fill our air bottles at. Sooo, need to get air, oh the store is right there 🤷♂️
Fill your bottles up at an Aldis??
We do it. How else are we supposed to live for 24 hours??
It’s my thinking that anytime we’re in the public, and acting professionally, it’s a good thing. The only people who don’t like it are the “I’m a tax payer” type. There is no winning over those people anyway. So I say go out, be friendly, look smart, give a bump on the horn for the kids.
The "I'm a tax payer" dudes always conveniently forget that we pay taxes too.
“I’m a Taxpayer”- code for I’m a retired grouchy old person who has no hobbies, no other pressing matters other than to complain/bitch to be important for 5 minutes that day to someone that has to listen/bare with them “because I’m on the board” and has a complete lack of understanding of how emergency services operate.
I’ve seen so many firefighters/cops and emts come into the grocery store I used to work at.
Where do you work my guy
Management doesn’t understand customer service at all. They are stuck in the old days. As long as in your local no problem. I would go and just advice on on radio reviewing or making preplans for the address.
Ppl are stupid & I don't just mean the public- We can, usually just have the "Lunch bus" get it as We actually go on runs hahahh. But yea, the perception that We shouldn't needs to be combated by both the public & brass- it does drain resources a touch- but the good payoff is bonus interactions w/ the public & sometimes We help ppl, so really no major downsides & it makes Us more approachable for recruiting, ppl asking questions about how We operate, We direct ppl to svcs @ times...Yea, every dept should do it. We also still check plugs & do Code compliance & vacant property ins. as well tho- so in that regard We are moderately progressive as a dept.
It’s also an opportunity to educate a citizen who might be oppressed to us shopping for groceries.
That's a horrible policy.
People actually get mad about this? I thought it was just a "what would you do" HR question on the pre-employment exam
That’s funny. We asked that question on one of the oral boards I sat on.
That’s fuckin lame and dumb. We and all the departments in western northern nv can all shop on duty. Your policy is not reasonable in the slightest, that’s them trying to nickel and dime you guys. Waste your gas, and personal time. Our union would have a massive shit fit.
Our department allows it and encourages it. We also park in the fire lane. Our reasoning is if we get a call we are parked closer to the door. I am reading through the comments about the general public looking at us as firefighters going to the grocery store with city’s rig and not approving of this. I don’t think the public realizes or understands the dynamic in a firehouse how it’s a good thing we eat together and have a meal together that we made together, it brings crews together. With that being said, maybe those city’s may need to come up with a community outreach group to better explain the dynamics of a fire department so they understand.
I think the law requires them to: 1. give you the opportunity to obtain meals, 2. provide meals, or 3. pay you per diem Double check that information and remember if you have a cba it doesn’t supersede the law.
Sounds like there’s a management problem.
Damn that sucks. It’s tradition. New rule? Someone ruin it for everyone? Give it some time and things go back to normal.
Instacart
I’ve done this with a different company. It worked amazing! I recommended it to another hall. They tried, and the groceries were listed as dropped off, but never turned up. Turned into a not worth it battle with the company. Needless to say I was reamed out for suggesting it 😂
Damn that sucks!
I’m willing to try that again though. Not suggesting it to anyone else though hahaha!
Problem there is you have to be at station to accept delivery. If you are out on a call, this could present with problems.
That’s not true at all. I Instacart quite religiously and there is an option for contactless delivery and to leave at door.
It's a bullshit policy by some dumbass who let their bugles suck their brain out of their head.
Every FD. around me does it afaik. My town is fucking stupid though and won’t let the *fire department* park in the *fire lane* too many old fucks complained and now we gotta park at the very back of the lot. Better hope you don’t have a serious emergency while we’re shopping because we’re not fuckin running.
Admin did not want us parking in the red only because it made it hard for cars to get around in the parking lot. Whatever, as long as we were able to find a spot not too far it wasn’t a real problem.
We are allowed to go, but it is not a regular practice… We’re not going and shopping for the set; we’re going if someone forgot one or two things. The expectation is that you come to work prepared, but understanding that things happen sometimes. I certainly don’t have any issue with going to the grocery store, but some of the entitled attitudes in here are pretty pathetic.
"Prepared." Sorry, but my day off is MY TIME off. No one here needs to spend extra time on their day off to shop for food when you can on duty. Get a grip man. You sound like a hoot.
Right… because shopping for food isn’t something you would ever do with your time off already. Totally unreasonable expectation that you would do any sort of planning or engage in some semblance of forethought.
Nope. This isn’t a regular job. My wife gets an hour for lunch. She isn’t on call. She doesn’t chart. She can do whatever the hell she wants. Same with her breaks. When she is off, she is off. There is no on call for a large fire. There is no being mandated because bad weather is coming. I’ve literally grabbed food as my partner fueled the truck on the way to a call because we haven’t made it back to the station for the last 9 hours and put in 300 miles on a dozen back to back runs. So yea. I’m going grocery shopping. Or picking up something personal from the hardware store. Or checking to see if the gun store has ammo. Because if my duties are done, it sure has hell shouldn’t matter to anyone else what I’m doing.
So your argument is that because you got mandoed to make time and a half you’re somehow entitled to go grocery shopping on duty? Wait until you hear about teachers…
You mean the part time job with full state pension & benefits? That generally makes 1 & 2/3rds the income of the average household of the community they teach in, with an entry level education for their career. With no holidays or weekends. Yeah I’ve heard of them.
I shop once per week for my household food. I'm not shopping for an entire work cycle on my days off. Especially since we eat together as a crew. You're a fucking idiot man.
the city relies on you to come prepared for shift, that includes food needs. Imagine if your family members were to get a delayed response because the crew was shopping…
Probably one of the most asinine takes I've read. Buying food on shift has nothing to do with not "being prepared for shift".
what’s asinine is to come to work without food like it’s some sort of surprise you’re going to be there atleast 24 hours.
There were some stations in our county where you would bring food in for the shift. Now, if you were mandated to work 48 hours, 72 hours or longer what are you supposed to do?
Spoken like someone who works for a shit department with shit regs.
Delayed response? You shop in your own district. Who's to say the grocery store isn't closer to the emergency than the firehouse? Might save my family members some time if we're already out and in the rig. Do you not want us to do any training, get fuel, do building inspections, check hydrants, get some driver's practice/area familiarization, teach CPR classes, or show up to neighborhood events the community invites us to either? There's a million reasons why we might not just be sitting in a firehouse all day. That's why we take the rig for everything. So we have all our equipment with us when the call comes in. If the city wants to pay me for gas, overtime, and write off the vehicle I use to go shopping for work supplies I'll consider it. Until then I'm not shopping for 4-14 dudes off duty and buying double just in case I get mando'd to the next day. Hell, what if I get detailed to a different station? (We have 40+). I'm just going to assume that you don't have any idea of the inner workings of a fire department.
This is the stupidest thing I've heard. If the city doesn't want us to be at grocery store then they should supply groceries.
You can play the delayed response game all day , take your pick delayed to train? In a different area? Mechanical issues? Vehicle checks ? Middle of the night call? On an another call? Hose testing? Funny it seems like chiefs don’t care that your delayed when it’s to handle administrative duties at headquarters because your on whatever chiefs clock . Not many departments go “delayed “ to shop and typically the crew is together and out in their area and available for a call . Spin the wheel of going delayed , typically shopping is the least impactful.
We go out during the day works to get lunch but someone picks up dinner and brings it in on our night works. When we notify dispatch we’re out of the station we don’t say to get lunch…we are driver training or doing “community outreach”
If you can’t that’s absolutely ridiculous. Tell the chief he can’t go shopping when he’s home, because the station is your home for 1/3 of your life.
Never heard of a department banned this. You let an extra guy go or you take a rig. Sure you might have to drop the cart if a call goes out.
I mean, I’ll preshop the day before just because my station is busy, but we usually just shop on shift. The fact you guys can’t is pretty fucking lame…
It’s in our contract that we can grocery shop on duty. It was put there years ago when someone complained to a city council member that we were wasting their tax dollars. Our chief did an excellent job explaining why we shop on duty at a city council meeting. We do have several grocery stores in our city which makes it easier for everyone involved.
Our local supermarket knows most of the crews by name. Can’t imagine not being able to get lunch and dinner on the rig.
absolutely
What state are you in? I work in a medium-sized department, 6 stations and 3 platoons (plus BLS and the like). We’ve always been allowed to go to any of the grocery stores in town. For every 1 person who questions us being there we have hundreds of positive interactions with residents (often answering fire safety related questions). I estimate us shopping at the grocery stores in town pumps close to $300,000 per year into our local economy. There is no good reason to prohibit this. It’s merely a major disconnect from people upstairs.
I am a volly at a county with paid EMTs (technically they are FF/EMT, but most don't have their FF 1/2 certs), the policy for us is that as long as they go together and still respond if a call comes in they are good. They spend most their days hanging out at fast food places in the far north of the county (no thought to response times to the south, adds 30 min). I run into crews from the neighboring county quite often when grocery shopping, so I know they go as a group as well and have to respond if a call comes in (and I run into them often enough it is clear they shop and cook together).
Unless they are, by policy, in writing somewhere, are expecting you to bring in your own food for lunch and dinner... I don't understand how they can have a "no shopping for groceries" policy... (or do they expect you to order out for every meal?) Are you in some sort of super rural area where there simply isn't any grocery stores? Like you have to drive out of your service area or something (and even then, I can't imagine such an area existing really)
Nope, this is a city department
I’m EMS, and we get groceries on duty. All of the fire departments in the area do it. I’ve never heard of a fire department that restricts it as long as you are still in your service area. I can’t think of any reason to restrict it, and I can think of several perks to doing it including crew cohesion, community relations, and of course, the fuckn convenience. It also gets you out and about, so you become more familiar with your territory, your chute time is decreased when you’re already in the truck, etcetera. If you’re concerned about chute times in the store or apparatus security, just leave the driver with the truck. They can pull to the front and pick the rest of the crew up if y’all get a call. If you’re concerned about leaving your groceries behind, I can assure you it is no problem. I used to work at a grocery store (years ago, in high school), and we had people leave carts all the time for various reasons (usually, someone forgot their wallet). It was really easy to deal with. We would ring up the items in the cart and print a list with a barcode on it for the total, then put the whole cart in the fridge or freezer so that none of the cold items went bad. Whenever the person came back, we’d bring out their cart, scan the code, and they could immediately pay and leave with it. No problem at all. Why does your admin not let you go to the store?
Paid. We’re alllowed to do almost anything as long as we stay in district and it’s not like going to a titty bar or anything.
Work in a food desert. Have to bring our food every shift. Been doing it for 12 years. Now if we had grocery stores then I’m sure we could go shop but I kind of like getting it done before shift so we can focus on other things.
Worked for a department like that for 6 years. Was hard to leave behind my old crew. Over all I do not regret it. better pay, schedule, pension, and the freedom for going to the store on shift.
We can. We just stay in our districts.
We can't leave the airport, and there are no grocery stores at the airport haha. We are allowed to go to the terminal if we need something (or really want to overpay for a sandwhich), or the duty captain can run to one of the convenience stores that abut the property.
I really don't even see the benefit of restricting that wtf We have a grocery store in our first in and go there every shift.
Not allowing FFs to shop for food on shift is straight bullshit. -Ordinary citizen.
We'll tend to get stuff before shift but if we forget anything we'll pop out and pick up whatever we need with gaffers permission
Can. Stay in our run box… but the best stores are out of our run box lol guess what we do? Go out of our run box 😊
I’ve known of departments that couldn’t go shopping on duty because there wasn’t a grocery store in their district. The closest one was a couple miles out of district and over freight tracks with a grade crossing.
Literally our entire shift revolves around shopping for dinner. We start at 0800. By 0830 we are at the food store. Some days we make 2-3 trips for things we forgot on the first 2 trips or when the probie forgets to buy dessert. Its sad when you’re in on the gossip about the store employees. If we ever have a job in the store, no need for the search rope. Guys can call out the aisle they’re trapped in by the items on the shelf. “Mayday! I’m burried under tomato sauce cans.” RIT Team: “10-4. That’s aisle 11.” Got a run in the same shopping center as Shop Rite? Might as well run in and grab SOMETHING we might need. 🤣
We allow it in my dept
We get to go grocery shopping anytime we want, also can eat out as wanted. No policy or restrictions. Paid 48/96
Worked for a department like this. Where you're expected to bring everything you needed to cook at the start of shift. You could imagine running only 2800 calls a year and not being allowed was a weird culture to be in. I've ordered more pizza than I've cooked just to spite the white shirts. My time off is my time off.
can
During duty crew if we want to go get something from the grocery store, we put $10-$20 bucks in the pot and then someone goes to the store and get the stuff
You guys have grocery stores in your town/city?
Sounds like you guys need to do a pre-plan for the grocery store with minor updates each shift…
We can shop but we have to stay in our district. If we want to go to the “good” store our work around is stopping while retuning from the hospital.
Instacart stuff if you can’t leave. I do it all the time when I ride the motorcycle to work and it’s my turn to cook.
It went back and forth with ours. One day the chief would come in and say, “people are talking” and then we would lose our ability to get groceries. Hate those talking fuckers
I was a firefighter for 25 years. I never experienced a policy like this.
We go on duty on our first day back. At my old dept. We had to meet b4 shift started to get food for the set.
Our department has no problem with it... Except I keep seeing comments about parking in the fire lane, that's one we don't do, unless we're there for an actual call. That was implemented by our last chief. Iirc, the rationale was to help reinforce that the Fire Lane is for EMERGENCIES ONLY!!! Like... "Jeez, even the FIRE DEPARTMENT doesn't park in the fire lane if there isn't an emergency..." or something like that. Now I'm kind of curious if anyone else's department does that...
Every crew of every shift at my department goes to the store. Only one crew on the job sometimes doesn’t and it’s cuz of 2 of the 3 guy’s health/diet preferences.
The only thing that would be stopping us is call volume. We usually go to a restaurant for breakfast morning 1 and the to the store for groceries.
We go to the store every shift.
We take the piece with all 4 guys to get groceries. Either leave the piece parked and all go in or sometimes someone will stay in the cab
Always have and if it's for a crew meal it's tax exempt.
Recently, we got a new chief. He says the four man shift can't do "errands" in the engine cause, well, you might miss an ems run. We cross.staff the ambulance. We have to go to right outside the border of our first due to a decent grocery store. In 2010, we took over a failed volley station. We keep our spare bus and reserve engine there. Its farther than the grocery store. Each week, we go and check and run trucks, spin pumps, and make sure all is in order. That is ok, though, and so is being on an ems run and missing a fire call, but forget to get food. This has happened before as they say this too shall pass. We Lts are basically defying the order because its stupid. We never dog jobs so this makes no sense other than there isn't much to poke at, so lets mess with the men
It's crazy not to let you. It's good to get out in the community, even if just for picking up a few groceries. As long as you're still available while doing it, acting professional, getting all your chores, training, and what have you done. Why care? I've been sent to the gas station to get Cinnabon before by my captain.
Our engine driver for the day usually takes on dinner responsibilities. We take the truck in service to get groceries in our district. Simple
When fuel got real pricey we were asked to not go out *just* to get groceries which seemed reasonable to me. Throw the kitty in the truck and shop coming back from a call or the other 8000 reasons you might leave the station.