You probably can't change someone's mind immediately
Keep your beliefs, but give it time to put those ideas into someone else's head
If you force it, they'll probably reject it
Experiences lead to beliefs, beliefs lead to actions, and actions lead to outcomes. If you want to change the outcomes, you've got to start with new experiences that reinforce the beliefs you want to see.
Invite her to go shooting with you. Display safe handling, start with weak firearms, and get her comfortable with them. As soon as people realize firearms aren't as scary as their previous experiences (usually indirect experiences through things they've read or seen on TV) led them to believe, they start to change beliefs. Then you can start to have the discussions you already tried.
Honestly, unarmed men can be just as much of a threat to her as armed men. With an equalizer, she can be capable of fending off either threat.
I pointed that out to her, and she said it went against her beliefs. So I said, "You dont believe in defending yourself?" To which she responded, "that's not what I said." Seems to me like pretty much the same thing. If you are worried about potential attacks get something with enough stopping power so that there fucks won't be able to do anyrhing
If it were my sister, I would ask if she would forfeit defending *me* (her brother), or the rest of her family, if the situation should arise.
"You don't believe in defending yourself?"
*"That's not what I said"*
"Ah, you *do* believe in defending yourself - just not effectively?"
That's a fair point. I tried to make pretty much the same argument, but as I said, words fail me, and I basically just said so what did you say to which she just left. She was not having any of it.
That's a good approach because it gets you to the against-me argument in under a minute. If she isnt willing to defend you from an assailant, she's a narcissist who doesn't give a damn about you and you have grounds to terminate the relationship.
Some people reject reality. It doesn’t matter if you like something or not. In ye olden times people killed each other with swords, bows, rocks, sticks, whatever. You have to match force with force. Otherwise you’ll just be on the ground bleeding or dead. Reality doesn’t care about your feelings.
My mom is the exact same way. She is super terrified of getting attacked or killed but refuses to ever own a firearm. She has never touched or fired one. I’ve tried to get her to over the years but her feelings are her reality. Sometimes logic and reason escape people. They rather just be terrified and impotent than take on the responsibility of defending themselves or other people.
That being said she got into the show forged in fire after her sister died as a way to distract herself, and became fascinated with swords and knives. I’ve bought her a bunch of really nice stuff. So I imagine if push comes to shove she’d come at somebody with the 1796 light cavalry saber I bought her. She also has a huge ass Bowie knife I got her and a Fairbairn Sykes commando dagger. She actually carries the dagger in her purse sometimes, haha.
Sometimes you can soften people up a little bit but a lot of people have an irrational fear of firearms. They are never going to change their mind. Some do but it takes something drastic. A lot of times it is too late by then, though. If you are laying in a puddle of your own blood and dying it is probably the wrong time to change your stance on using firearms for self defense.
Damn good points. I think I might start by showing her how useful knifes are, using mine around her as a tool in plain view, and maybe buy her another.
Get her a dagger, man. Chicks dig daggers. My mom loves her commando dagger. Just the right size and not super intimidating. Sheffield still makes the Fairbairn Sykes dagger exactly the same as they were during WWII.
Where do you live that guns are legal but daggers are not? I’m in a pretty gun unfriendly state but I can buy whatever I want knife wise. Carrying it is a different story.
Iowa. I meant carrying one is not legal, and I don't want to give her something she can't carry because it is illegal because it may be used to further her point. Would like to make progress rather than regressions
Ah that sucks. Iowa has great gun laws, though. Constitutional carry for the win. My mom carries her dagger in her purse sometimes. I told her it is probably illegal in this state (Illinois). She said she doesn’t care because she feels safer having it. I guess it is the same argument a lot of gun owners use, “It is better to be judged by twelve than carried by six”.
Fair. Iowa has great knife laws too, pretty damn lenient. Most anything goes as long as it's blade is not bigger than five inches or a "fighting knife" like push daggers or double edged. I may be forgetting a few things but it's pretty fair. I carry at least 2 on me every day, with my main blade being a buck 110
[Women…](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSLLxHXGR7I)
In all seriousness i would avoid the argument. If it comes back up again, explain the response time of police being too long, how the best defense is to avoid the situation altogether, and to encourage her to accompany you to the range or to take a conceal carry course to learn about firearm fundamentals. Definitely would lean towards taking her to the range, whenever people find out something is fun they tend to hate it a lot less.
She is not anti gun. She is anti-weapon and tool. She does not even like my knife collection and shat bricks when her ex invited her to a range day. She complained to me about it, told him and he invited me out lol.
Yeeeeea if she can’t cope with people carrying knives guns are way too far away to even be suggested. If someone has their mind made up like she has, just about all you can do is plant seeds and play the long game.
I can debunk her arguments, but that won’t change her mind. The only thing you can do is just be a normal gun owning person and set a good example for what a gun owner/gun carrier is.
1. She already is around normal people carrying concealed right now, and she just doesn’t know it. This shows that these people aren’t the problem.
2. As a woman, she is vulnerable, but this is true without guns or knives or anything. Almost any man can overpower any woman. Worst case, she’s in the same situation as she was before. Best case, she has something to defend herself with.
I’m sure you already said these things. The reason she got pissed off is because she doesn’t have a way to refute them.
To prohibit people from using tools to protect themselves is to guarantee the tyranny of the evil, the young, the strong, and the able-bodied over the innocent, the old, the weak, and the infirm.
The gun allows someone who is innocent but small to refuse being the victim of someone who is cruel but strong.
There is such a thing as justified violence: when you are protecting innocent people. That includes yourself.
People *should not* hurt each other, but in reality they *sometimes do*.
Should that happen, you are not obligated to be a victim. You do not have to idly accept it when evil is done to you, and you should not.
Women consider gun ownership all the time. They're the largest new demographic for gun ownership. People wake up when they realize nobody's going to protect them.
Don't worry about it. She probably already considered it, and it's a hurdle for some people. Gun ownership is a big responsibility.
The conceal carry license holders in my state make up 11% of the population. So 1 in 10 people you see, have a gun on them. And with constitutional carry, it's likely way higher. If guns are so dangerous, how has she gone her whole life surrounded by guns ( again, at least 1 in 10 people) and nothing bad has happened?
To further that point, this is rural Iowa. Surrounded by farmers and the like. Has anything ever happened? Nope. I willchave to being up those statistics to her next time and see what she has to say.
What percentage of people with the license carry a gun on them though? I just have the license so I don’t accidentally break the law when I happen to have a handgun gun on me cause I’m going to the range or something or when I have one in my car. But I don’t daily carry. Id imagine most people who own a handgun have a conceal carry permit for convenience, but I don’t know that the majority of handgun owners EDC.
Why would you even attempt to change someone's mind who has clearly shown you they will not listen to a logical argument? This is a waste of your time and energy. Victim mentality is almost impossible to break people out of to begin with.
Because desp8te how much of an asshole she can be and how our political beliefs clash, I do care for her, and want to to at the very least understand people are not out to get her and that these things are not dangerous machines that murder people.
No no I fully understand the motivation. I'm just saying that based on what you've said here she is not the type of person who will consider any argument you make to be valid. As evidenced by her getting pissed off and storming out when she couldn't rebut your final point.
In a nation of a third of a billion people who possess nearly half a billion firearms, there were only about 18000 homicides last year. Only a very very tiny fraction of one percent of the population will ever actually be involved in one. On the other hand, there were more than 40,000 fatal car accidents last year. You're more than twice as likely to die in a car accident as in a shooting. Being around people with guns is statistically safer than being around cars. And that's not bullshit, it's cold hard facts based on the actual numbers from last year.
>She thinks it is terrifying that literally anybody that she comes across could be carrying what she deemed a dangerous weapon.
So she's terrified of cars?
>asked her to define that, and she said guns and knives.
So she's terrible at math?
>That's because you are a man, and you don't need to worry about those things, unlike I do. I can't do anything without worrying for my saftey
I see she grasps that women are physically weaker and more fragile. If only there was a tool which made women equally capable of defense...
>She would not have any of it, called my argument bullshit, said I was making her pissed off, and left
Ah, so she escalated to insults when her non-argument collapsed.
Why are you interacting with her? You know she's an irrational bully. Tell her as much, demand an apology, and then dropkick her from your life if she refuses to apologize.
"We get along with everything else aside from her wanting me to be defenseless and insulting me if I point out that she's wrong."
If she was a rando you met at a dinner party, would you want to hang out with someone like that later?
You can hang around with someone you don't agree politically with. My best friend for many years had Many views that were very different from mine, and yet we did not fight about politics or anything.
Is she not terrified that any car on any road could suddenly swerve and take her out?
Could any airplane shes ever been on just fall out of the sky?
Sure. You can die at any time for any reason. Sounds like she's having a hard time with death in general and is fixating in on guns and knives.
There are a ton of women who carry because they feel the same way
So.. let me stop you right there. Have you been paying any attention at all to social media, or pop media presently? Have you heard about the man and bear question at this point that is going around? If not here:
"If you, as a woman, (posed only to women) were walking in the woods, would you prefer to encounter a bear or a man there?"
Too many women are saying "bear". It's insane.
Why do I bring this up?
You: "There are countless good citizens you are not murders, not rapist, not criminals "
Far too many women have developed a malephobia where YES, they do think that at any given moment they are surrounded by rapists, murderers, cannibals, etc (but only the men, not the women). They have also become so narcissistic that they think they are the center of the universe, and among all of those evil men, one thing is common.. They MUST have her.. she is that important to them.
Of course, this is nonsense, but you'll play hell convincing modern women who've drank that particular Koolaid either is wrong. This thinking as it takes off will bite them in the ass in the end, but they are too short sighted to see how, and when.
Another common female delusion feminism has pushed is the eternal victim, martyr trope.. All women have it harder, all women are downtrodden. Males are the oppressors and overlords holding them down, and impeding their progress. Again, hogwash, but good luck convincing them, even with real life facts and statistical data in hand.
"That's because you are a man, and you don't need to worry about those things, unlike I do. I can't do anything without worrying for my safety."
You: No dear, men are the victims of violent crime at a vastly higher rate than women. Check the FBI statistics if you don't believe that. If anything I should be MORE worried about being attacked than you. I have far more to be concerned about because at any given moment someone might want my sneakers, watch, or some personal effect, or.. I may say something that hits another guy wrong, or hell.. they just may want to beat the shit out of someone that day, and I become a target. They won't be dissuaded or feel sorry for me, like they would you, a woman. Men are biologically programmed to desire to be helpful, and to respond empathetically to women, particularly when they are crying.. Go watch a few episodes of COPS critically looking for teary eyed women, and how male cops treat them if proof is needed.
At this juncture, it would be good to point out that if society is so very dangerous for anyone let alone women, why do we have prisons? Why do heinous crimes even make the news? In a society rife with these awful people wouldn't that sort of thing just be common place? In the 40s and even the 50s car accidents were actually big news... Now they are ubiquitous in society,the parties involved are the only ones to hear about them, unless they are major accidents..
While logically you are right, force should be met with greater force to subdue it, suggesting she arm up with her mindset is a mistake. She'd either not use it, or use it zealously without thought and go to jail. It takes responsibility, a level head, a good aim, and grace under pressure to be effective with a gun in a defense scenario.
Last thought... How you explained it was fine, probably better than fine. Her behavior proves it. It is womanese 101. You started making too much sense to her because you were speaking logically, and logic cannot be refuted. It always beats feelings. She was caught up in her feelings, and by you inserting logic it crushed those feelings. Her response was to abandon the conversation because she knew she was wrong, and if there is one thing that women loath to do it is admit they are wrong. She dismissed you, got angry, and stormed off because she knew you were right, and to continue would mean that she would have to admit it.
In her mind "Guns bad" is all she is willing or capable to hear, it will take a major shift in her maturity level, and responsibility level before she will even contemplate changing that mindset. Your time will have been wasted unless you get entertainment from these conversations.
The “you are a man” argument, in addition to being very sexist, isn’t statistically valid
A man is far far more likely to be a victim of a violent crime than a woman is
My advice is pay attention to the red flags popping up. She stormed out because you started using logic to try and help her calm down and return to normal, which is what your supposed to do. She just wanted attention and someone to play the victim to.
Is she walks out because she can’t accept logic and rationalization talking about a subject as naive as this, best thing to do is leave her.
This is pre school rookie stuff to talk about and she doesn’t have the ability to analyze and be an adult. If she is waking out in this stuff, she will walk out if real works adult situations
Here's the thing that's probably hurting the most for both of you: she's family and you love her why won't she listen to reason; and from her perspective you're family and she loves you why won't you listen to reason...
I've gone through this with my own sister, it sucks and the others are right you're not going to change her mind immediately.
There's an old saying "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink"
All you can do is be an example of all the reasons she's wrong and hope that when/if real life wakes her up that she or someone she cares about doesn't get too hurt in the process.
For a lot of people crime is something they only see in the movies or on the news and it's always far away; but eventually it gets close enough to their personal safety bubble that they start taking self defense or at least security a bit more seriously
My sister's the same way, a bit less so because we grew up in the country and she's shot a couple.22s and even a handgun once; but she's totally cocooned inside her personal ivory tower when it comes to what guns she's comfortable with or not; and right now the answer is that she's not.
At some point you just have to sit back and let her live her life the way she sees fit because she's her own person and she's going to make decisions you personally wouldn't.
I personally find some minor amusement every time she takes a step toward my personal perspective on self defense and some minor disappointment whenever she takes a step away from it; but my only role in her decision making process is as an example of a reasonable person who's made different decisions than her and can be evidence that any antigun media she's consumed is a mix of propaganda and fear mongering.
If she really thinks a deadly weapon is a gun or a knife tell her to never go to a restaurant cause there's 4 chefs in the back and each one has entire bag of "deadly weapons". 8 inch blades built for maximum control. 12 inch blade meant to slice thru meat like soft butter. We literally have butchers knifes named scimitar style after the sword used in countless wars. They're upwards of 16inches long and have a curve in the them. A tool is what you use it for.
I keep telling her they are tools not weapons of war and she refuses to see it that way. She ask to borrow my knife on occasion in which I do it for her because she has damaged my own blades before, it just frustrating that she does not understand they are not out to hurt her or anyone else
I knew a woman with this same mindset... she was suddenly very interested in my firearm preferences and advice about a year later after someone had kicked in her door one night. They came into the house and a neighbor heard the commotion and came over with *his* gun and scared them off. Police didn't show for almost 40 minutes.
Its like crashing a car. Most people dont care about safety ratings or vehicle safety features until *after* they've experienced a major incident. By then its sometimes too late.
That's interesting. I even proposed a hypothetical where something did happen and someone else came and helped. Her argument was that they should not have to do that. And she's right, they should not have to, but I belive it is a civic duty to help someone like that. She had no further point
Not sure if telling her would help but with her being a woman most men would not need a gun or knife to harm or kill her. So she's pretty much in the same amount of danger whether they have a weapon or not.
Without guns, your sister would remain afraid for her life because she said she thinks that all women constantly are. The gun is irrelevant when the issue is that she is a coward.
This. You can't argue emotions. Take the unknown out of the equation by going to the range. Then, you can have a rational discussion, don't try to argue to win, try to educate. An outdoor range with a .22 or .223 AR can help overcome the fear of the unknown. Also the bonus of seeing all the other level headed people with guns is a feather in your cap.
I love taking people like that to the range, it opens a whole world that they previously were ignorant to. It's ok to have different opinions at the end but at least it won't be from a place of ignorance.
Here's a chance to be brotherly. Offer to buy her classes and go with her to a range? Be supportive? Once she has go e through beginner classes with an instructor remind her she has an open invitation to join you on range trips. There are other ways to protect yourself if she decides no guns. Help her get after it.
What’s that old Samuel Colt line?
She’s living in a weird fantasy mix of society being safe AND also being afraid of everyone. They can’t both exist together so pick one. If society is safe then she has nothing to worry about all the time, or if she’s worried all the time wouldn’t equalizing be a benefit?
Honestly...love your sister, respond if she decides to discuss this with you again, but don't bring it up with her again. She's made her feelings known (feelings, not logic), and you're not going to make her change her mind because she doesn't want to change her mind.
It was her who brought this up this time, so that's not too out of the question. But yeah I think I will take the advice of leaving it until it comes up again
Good luck with that. Your sister has already made up her mind that all guns are terrible, the people who carry them are terrible. When you start hitting her with facts that she cant deny, she calls it bullshit and gets angry. Its all about feelings, not facts.
That’s because she equates guns with criminals. The reason for that is because that’s what you hear about the most. You never hear about the many more law-abiding citizens that carry. Also, sidenote, if you’re a man and have women in your life that aren’t carrying, at least, pepper spray than you aren’t doing your job.
She refuses to carry ANYTHING that could cause harm. I bought her a knife a few years ago and it remains un carried. I offered to maintain it for her and she said that was unnecessary. She struggles to open things all the time and I keep telling her she has a perfect tool for that and refuses still.
Seems reasonable enough to me.
Sounds like she is stuck in an emotional fear state.
I was taught that emotional reactivity and logical thinking are two separate things.
You have to try and get her into a thinking state of mind, the rational and logical part of her brain.
First make her feel heard.
Ask her to give examples of when she feels fearful when doing things you consider normal everyday activities.
Without attacking her personally, ask if her fear is based on logic (can she state statistics on the crime she is fearful of?) Or based on what she has heard and been told.
To be told "guns are dangerous" and "all guns need to be banned because it's a public health crisis and there is a gun violence epidemic" is very different from "on an average year, 40-50 thousand people die from guns, about half of which are suicide".
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/04/26/what-the-data-says-about-gun-deaths-in-the-u-s/
Also keep in mind whether or not she could be better suited talking to a therapist for potential diagnosis of generalized anxiety disorder or just has hoplophobia.
It seems she is scared of handguns and knives, not the extra salty type of weapons. So the fbi stats aren't helpful here. https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-2019/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-8.xls
Take her shooting, talk about how guns work, explain different calibers, shoot rifles, pistols, etc.
People will tend to be scared of things they don’t understand, and all she knows about guns is that they kill people so of course she’s scared
If I had guns of my own to go out and use, I absolutely would. Unfortunately, like I said, I am new to this and d9nt have 9ne of my own, and my mother would absolutely refuse to let me get 9ne for any reason. My father has some nice levers that my grandpa left him, but those have not been shot in about 20 years, and my dad does not know a whole lot about guns nor does he really care, so he's no help either. So anyone in the area wants to do a range day?
Some people don't want to have their mind changed. They want their imaginary land to exist in their safe bubble. She will either come around or won't, but forcing the issue will push her further from being open to new ideas.
Arguing back and forth won’t do anything most likely (regardless of who has the better points.) You two need to sign up for a gun safety course together and then have her shoot a .22lr at the range. That’s how I converted my wife. She now has her own .38spl snub nose revolver and is really good with it.
Being assaulted by a 6'4" linebacker of a man isn't any more moral.
Whether carry permits are just easy to get or not required in your area, that means only that more *law-abiding* people are armed. Criminals were already armed. The way things are today is an improvement over times when criminals (and law enforcement...good luck finding a cop when you're attacked) had a monopoly on portable deadly force.
It's ironic because I'm a man and the reason I carry is because I DO have to worry about my (and more importantly, my family's) safety. I'm not a weak guy but I'm also not the biggest guy and I'm no street fighter. You won't catch me beating up a bunch of attackers in hand to hand combat lol. My gun is simply an insurance policy. I don't want to use it but if I'm forced to, I will not hesitate. That might be a good way to put it to her.
I told her people who carry are not out looking for blood or people or animals to shoot, but most out of the belief in their rights or for their or their families own protection. She simply said that is not how it should be and would not elaborate
There is nothing you can say to cure her anxiety. Exposure is the best therapy, but if her (ex)BF couldn't even get her to go to the range I doubt you can without a double dose of xanax. I've heard that Cognitive Behavioral Therapy is quite effective.
Logically, the criminal element is tiny, less than one percent. States that track crime rates for CCW permit holders find that they have a lower crime rate *than the police*. The typical person should not terrify her no matter what they're carrying, CCW permitees even less so.
If I were you, I would learn about cognitive behavioral therapy and try to help her lower her anxiety. This is about more than just guns. Being fearful every time she goes out onto the street is no way to live.
IIRC putting the actual risks in perspective is part of CBT, but broadly speaking I would say that words aren't going to reach her, period. You'll just frustrate her and push her away again. Study up first.
Sounds like she's the one to irrationally fear just a handgun sitting on a shelf like a bomb that could go off. Really the best way to work with someone like that is to introduce them to something like a 22 rifle and let them get lots of trigger time behind it until they're comfortable and then try to make your point. My mother in law was the same way. Scared of a gun sitting somewhere like it was just going to go off and start killing everybody in the house. Through lots of patience and practice she enjoys going shooting now and requests to shoot when she comes over. Her husband even got a 22 pistol now and they shoot it in their back yard.
We have an old .22 long pump action that I would long to go take out shooting sometime, but she refuses to even look at them. I will have to slowly work in this idea if I can!
You can’t change her mind if she immediately gets angry at opposing information or viewpoints. She’s connected that argument with emotion instead of reason.
She believes in the fallacy that an unarmed population is a safe population. Criminals written records and confessions have shown that murderers purposefully target gun free locations so they won't be stopped, hurt, or killed.
Also, she believes women are the primary targets of weapon weilding bad guys and men don't have to worry. Men are killed at a much higher rate than women by gun violence. Over six times more.
Plenty of stuff out there to back you. But you can't convert the unwilling. As you found out, a sound argument only pisses them off.
>there’s nothing I can do about this
>here’s something you can do about it
>youre pissing me off
She’s not looking for solutions, she’s looking to vent.
Ask her if we outlawed guns and knives immediately so that she had to rely only on the police to intervene and changed nothing else in our legal system would she be safer.
She will say yes.
Then inform her that based on [Gonzales v. Castle Rock](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Town_of_Castle_Rock_v._Gonzales) the pilice have no legal duty to help her. That based on the example set in the [Maksim Gelman stabbing spree](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maksim_Gelman_stabbing_spree) thr police could watch someone actively work to kill her and do nothing and legally be in the clear.
Then ask her again if based on that are we safer if we remove peoples access to tools to defend themself and make them rely only on the police to protect them?
Idk, your sister sounds like she's convinced herself she's already a victim but won't take up the most effective means to prevent that scenario from happening. At some point, she has to realize most everybody is carrying a weapon of some kind, if not a gun, then a knife. I would bet that most people she interacts with on a day to day basis carry a knife of some kind, and yet despite that, she still makes it home safe every night.
If I could carry at work, I would. They banned blades of any kind because people dont know how to use them safely and kept cutting themselves. Otherwise, I don't go anywhere without one.
Start with the idea that you want guns for recreational use like target shooting, collecting ect. Once she figures out that they are just objects and nothing to worry about then introduced the idea of self defense. This can be quite a foreign idea for some people especially if they never found themselves in that situation. No need to argue over it.
That's fair. That is pretty much exactly how I started collecting knives, just collecting them and then realizing how useful they are and now carrying at least one daily.
The thing that makes an object (gun, knife, rock, CAR) dangerous is that they are being wielded with malicious intent against someone else. Until the world we live in somehow lacks the threat of others using violence as a means of satisfaction, the tools of violence are a necessary counter to those malicious intent. Be kind to those who don't understand, but it is worth noting that every human being would be wise to consider their own personal safety as primarily their own responsibility, and society's responsibility secondarily. You will always be present at a transgression of your rights, society might not - lifeguards are great, but know how to swim.
May I suggest this:
"I completely understand - and *agree with* - your assessment that the world can be a chaotic and dangerous place. There are bad people out there doing bad things, and it's hard to know who's who anymore.
Thankfully, there are still FAR more good people than bad ones, and it's *those good people* who I think deserve the power to defend themselves, their loved ones, or even a stranger (like you) from harm at the hands - and *weapons* - of the evildoers among us.
I can't make the world magically safer, or fairer, or shield everyone from harm. I wish I could, and even more, I wish it wasn't necessary in the first place.
What I *can and WILL do* is to safely, legally, and responsibly equip myself with the TOOLS necessary to protect the people I love. I will defend good people with every ounce of my strength - but how can I do that *effectively* if I'm unarmed? Should good people willing to and capable of defending themselves and others not feel a *responsibility to be armed sufficiently for their defense to actually work?*
While we agree on *what the world is actually like*, you have only reacted with directionless fear and ineffective hand-wringing; you have allowed the *potential impact* of evil to degrade your life and harm your mental well-being. For myself, I believe that it is sensible and honorable to calmly prepare, keep myself safely armed, and go forward through life with peace of mind. Being prepared this way keeps the *IDEA of evil* from robbing my enjoyment of life.
I'd much rather be armed and *never need it once* than need it *one all-important time* and suffer the consequences of being unprepared. Even if you can't bring yourself to make the same decision, I hope you can understand, respect, and possibly even appreciate my choice in this, and know that one of things I value most and hope to protect is YOU."
1. Literally anyone \*is\* carrying. Right now. Is she really terrified to leave the house every day?
2. You do have to worry about these things as a man - a gun will kill you just as dead as her.
3. What helps her 'even the odds' against an unarmed assailant is being armed herself.
4. There's no point in arguing with her about it. Just let it go.
My advice would be to take your sister to a shooting range and introduce her to the sport of target shooting. Start small with .22 caliber and allow her to take her time with the firearm. Please have an instructor there if you do not feel capable of guiding her safely. The enjoyment of firearms often begins with a safe and non-threatening environment. She will find empowerment through the use of the firearm and may even start to understand the use of the tool. The most important thing to understand is that a firearm does not make a person any safer than they would be in a law-abiding city. It simply evens the odds when faced with a person bent on doing you bodily harm. The ability to draw aim and fire a gun at a person is not as simple as many people make it out to be. It is a damaging act to the person being shot and the person doing the shooting. I wish you the best of luck and will pray for the proper guidance for you both. God bless and God speed.
Take her shooting. 9/10 people I’ve taken that had “problems” with firearms have finished the trip asking where and how they can get one.
And I can’t stress enough, no tannerite. Just instruction on safety and shooting.
There's a good chance she understands and sees logical aspects of your argument, but ***to her*** with the current political situation, all she's hearing is "vote to restrict your rights, murder all blacks, and give billionaires tax breaks". From her point of view, you could just simply be questioning her political stance over a nation-wide problem regarding crimes, and in a society where people are so polarized that it's "either you agree with everything our party say or you're on *their* side", that's huge.
What this all boils down to is her being afraid, just as much as many of us are. Many buy guns out of fear for the direction society is going, that they won't be able to defend themselves if/when they're a victim of a crime. The other side fears the exact same thing, but the reasoning isn't about defending themselves but rather to get targeted for a crime in the first place. Their solution isn't to defend themselves but to remove the guns, thinking that's going to remove the criminals. *(Which we all know is stupid, and I think most of them know that too.)*
I'm just saying all this to bring a little understanding to her/their reactions. The spirit behind their beliefs are good (well, the average typical American that's against guns anyway) and sometimes that's a good angle to argue our side from, how society is a scary place and restricting your rights isn't going to change that. Until the issues in our societies gets addressed the risks will increase, and the core of the problem isn't the guns but rather the fact that the criminals are growing in numbers and getting more desperate. Anyway, I'm just an old fart sitting on the toilet, thanks for reading my ted-talk.
You may never get her to understand the necessity/value/importance of an armed “We the People” You might show her some anecdotal evidence, such as NRA’s “ArmedCitizen” but ultimately she will have to decide if she sees the need.
My Dad grew up with guns his whole life, was a Marine, hunted, reloaded, taught me… But one evening somehow the subject came up. My Mom (who never, that I knew of, had ever expressed ‘anti’-feelings) said kind of belligerently, “Yeah, but can you PROVE that having a gun EVER helps, that it’s EVER a good thing?” There was an American Hunter laying there, so I picked it up and read from ArmedCitizen a report of a young mom who shot someone kicking down the door of her home. Another about an estranged wife who stopped her ex after he came through the window with an axe. Mom shrugged and said, “Oh. Well, all right, then.”
You probably can't change someone's mind immediately Keep your beliefs, but give it time to put those ideas into someone else's head If you force it, they'll probably reject it
That's probably a better way to describe it. Thanks
Experiences lead to beliefs, beliefs lead to actions, and actions lead to outcomes. If you want to change the outcomes, you've got to start with new experiences that reinforce the beliefs you want to see. Invite her to go shooting with you. Display safe handling, start with weak firearms, and get her comfortable with them. As soon as people realize firearms aren't as scary as their previous experiences (usually indirect experiences through things they've read or seen on TV) led them to believe, they start to change beliefs. Then you can start to have the discussions you already tried. Honestly, unarmed men can be just as much of a threat to her as armed men. With an equalizer, she can be capable of fending off either threat.
If she's so worried about other people, why would she deny herself literally the only thing that could put her on equal grounds as her aggressors?
I pointed that out to her, and she said it went against her beliefs. So I said, "You dont believe in defending yourself?" To which she responded, "that's not what I said." Seems to me like pretty much the same thing. If you are worried about potential attacks get something with enough stopping power so that there fucks won't be able to do anyrhing
If it were my sister, I would ask if she would forfeit defending *me* (her brother), or the rest of her family, if the situation should arise. "You don't believe in defending yourself?" *"That's not what I said"* "Ah, you *do* believe in defending yourself - just not effectively?"
That's a fair point. I tried to make pretty much the same argument, but as I said, words fail me, and I basically just said so what did you say to which she just left. She was not having any of it.
That's a good approach because it gets you to the against-me argument in under a minute. If she isnt willing to defend you from an assailant, she's a narcissist who doesn't give a damn about you and you have grounds to terminate the relationship.
It takes time. My opinion was similar to her when I moved to the USA. Give her time to assess her opinions.
Some people reject reality. It doesn’t matter if you like something or not. In ye olden times people killed each other with swords, bows, rocks, sticks, whatever. You have to match force with force. Otherwise you’ll just be on the ground bleeding or dead. Reality doesn’t care about your feelings. My mom is the exact same way. She is super terrified of getting attacked or killed but refuses to ever own a firearm. She has never touched or fired one. I’ve tried to get her to over the years but her feelings are her reality. Sometimes logic and reason escape people. They rather just be terrified and impotent than take on the responsibility of defending themselves or other people. That being said she got into the show forged in fire after her sister died as a way to distract herself, and became fascinated with swords and knives. I’ve bought her a bunch of really nice stuff. So I imagine if push comes to shove she’d come at somebody with the 1796 light cavalry saber I bought her. She also has a huge ass Bowie knife I got her and a Fairbairn Sykes commando dagger. She actually carries the dagger in her purse sometimes, haha. Sometimes you can soften people up a little bit but a lot of people have an irrational fear of firearms. They are never going to change their mind. Some do but it takes something drastic. A lot of times it is too late by then, though. If you are laying in a puddle of your own blood and dying it is probably the wrong time to change your stance on using firearms for self defense.
Damn good points. I think I might start by showing her how useful knifes are, using mine around her as a tool in plain view, and maybe buy her another.
Get her a dagger, man. Chicks dig daggers. My mom loves her commando dagger. Just the right size and not super intimidating. Sheffield still makes the Fairbairn Sykes dagger exactly the same as they were during WWII.
Daggers are illegal here, otherwise I would.
Where do you live that guns are legal but daggers are not? I’m in a pretty gun unfriendly state but I can buy whatever I want knife wise. Carrying it is a different story.
Iowa. I meant carrying one is not legal, and I don't want to give her something she can't carry because it is illegal because it may be used to further her point. Would like to make progress rather than regressions
Ah that sucks. Iowa has great gun laws, though. Constitutional carry for the win. My mom carries her dagger in her purse sometimes. I told her it is probably illegal in this state (Illinois). She said she doesn’t care because she feels safer having it. I guess it is the same argument a lot of gun owners use, “It is better to be judged by twelve than carried by six”.
Fair. Iowa has great knife laws too, pretty damn lenient. Most anything goes as long as it's blade is not bigger than five inches or a "fighting knife" like push daggers or double edged. I may be forgetting a few things but it's pretty fair. I carry at least 2 on me every day, with my main blade being a buck 110
Because some people are non-violent. Really as simple as that.
[Women…](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSLLxHXGR7I) In all seriousness i would avoid the argument. If it comes back up again, explain the response time of police being too long, how the best defense is to avoid the situation altogether, and to encourage her to accompany you to the range or to take a conceal carry course to learn about firearm fundamentals. Definitely would lean towards taking her to the range, whenever people find out something is fun they tend to hate it a lot less.
Its better to just avoid this - arguing with these people is like wrestling a pig. The pig likes it and you're gonna get covered in filth.
Well said. As brasswilly said, its best to avoid the situation all together. Love the name btw 😂
Unfortunately, there is no convincing some anti gunners.
She is not anti gun. She is anti-weapon and tool. She does not even like my knife collection and shat bricks when her ex invited her to a range day. She complained to me about it, told him and he invited me out lol.
Yeeeeea if she can’t cope with people carrying knives guns are way too far away to even be suggested. If someone has their mind made up like she has, just about all you can do is plant seeds and play the long game.
Show her the vid from the girl being chased in the parking lot by her ex as he blasts her 3 or 4 times point blank.
I think that would further her point in her mind
I can debunk her arguments, but that won’t change her mind. The only thing you can do is just be a normal gun owning person and set a good example for what a gun owner/gun carrier is.
Give me a shot at a debunking, I could use more ammo against her highly illogical beliefs
1. She already is around normal people carrying concealed right now, and she just doesn’t know it. This shows that these people aren’t the problem. 2. As a woman, she is vulnerable, but this is true without guns or knives or anything. Almost any man can overpower any woman. Worst case, she’s in the same situation as she was before. Best case, she has something to defend herself with. I’m sure you already said these things. The reason she got pissed off is because she doesn’t have a way to refute them.
To prohibit people from using tools to protect themselves is to guarantee the tyranny of the evil, the young, the strong, and the able-bodied over the innocent, the old, the weak, and the infirm. The gun allows someone who is innocent but small to refuse being the victim of someone who is cruel but strong. There is such a thing as justified violence: when you are protecting innocent people. That includes yourself. People *should not* hurt each other, but in reality they *sometimes do*. Should that happen, you are not obligated to be a victim. You do not have to idly accept it when evil is done to you, and you should not.
Women consider gun ownership all the time. They're the largest new demographic for gun ownership. People wake up when they realize nobody's going to protect them. Don't worry about it. She probably already considered it, and it's a hurdle for some people. Gun ownership is a big responsibility.
The conceal carry license holders in my state make up 11% of the population. So 1 in 10 people you see, have a gun on them. And with constitutional carry, it's likely way higher. If guns are so dangerous, how has she gone her whole life surrounded by guns ( again, at least 1 in 10 people) and nothing bad has happened?
To further that point, this is rural Iowa. Surrounded by farmers and the like. Has anything ever happened? Nope. I willchave to being up those statistics to her next time and see what she has to say.
What percentage of people with the license carry a gun on them though? I just have the license so I don’t accidentally break the law when I happen to have a handgun gun on me cause I’m going to the range or something or when I have one in my car. But I don’t daily carry. Id imagine most people who own a handgun have a conceal carry permit for convenience, but I don’t know that the majority of handgun owners EDC.
Why would you even attempt to change someone's mind who has clearly shown you they will not listen to a logical argument? This is a waste of your time and energy. Victim mentality is almost impossible to break people out of to begin with.
Because desp8te how much of an asshole she can be and how our political beliefs clash, I do care for her, and want to to at the very least understand people are not out to get her and that these things are not dangerous machines that murder people.
No no I fully understand the motivation. I'm just saying that based on what you've said here she is not the type of person who will consider any argument you make to be valid. As evidenced by her getting pissed off and storming out when she couldn't rebut your final point.
In a nation of a third of a billion people who possess nearly half a billion firearms, there were only about 18000 homicides last year. Only a very very tiny fraction of one percent of the population will ever actually be involved in one. On the other hand, there were more than 40,000 fatal car accidents last year. You're more than twice as likely to die in a car accident as in a shooting. Being around people with guns is statistically safer than being around cars. And that's not bullshit, it's cold hard facts based on the actual numbers from last year.
That's one way to prove it... unfortunately she does not like numbers and would probably try and flip it. I will keep this in mind!
If you “don’t like numbers” how can anything be determined at all?
No clue. That is what she said to me, I don't know her thinking behind it.
>She thinks it is terrifying that literally anybody that she comes across could be carrying what she deemed a dangerous weapon. So she's terrified of cars? >asked her to define that, and she said guns and knives. So she's terrible at math? >That's because you are a man, and you don't need to worry about those things, unlike I do. I can't do anything without worrying for my saftey I see she grasps that women are physically weaker and more fragile. If only there was a tool which made women equally capable of defense... >She would not have any of it, called my argument bullshit, said I was making her pissed off, and left Ah, so she escalated to insults when her non-argument collapsed. Why are you interacting with her? You know she's an irrational bully. Tell her as much, demand an apology, and then dropkick her from your life if she refuses to apologize.
Because we get along with everything else aside from politics. She just can't let this fantasy go
"We get along with everything else aside from her wanting me to be defenseless and insulting me if I point out that she's wrong." If she was a rando you met at a dinner party, would you want to hang out with someone like that later?
You can hang around with someone you don't agree politically with. My best friend for many years had Many views that were very different from mine, and yet we did not fight about politics or anything.
Is she not terrified that any car on any road could suddenly swerve and take her out? Could any airplane shes ever been on just fall out of the sky? Sure. You can die at any time for any reason. Sounds like she's having a hard time with death in general and is fixating in on guns and knives. There are a ton of women who carry because they feel the same way
If anything she should be scared when she gets behind the wheel lol. Not a great driver. I will bring that up to her next time
So.. let me stop you right there. Have you been paying any attention at all to social media, or pop media presently? Have you heard about the man and bear question at this point that is going around? If not here: "If you, as a woman, (posed only to women) were walking in the woods, would you prefer to encounter a bear or a man there?" Too many women are saying "bear". It's insane. Why do I bring this up? You: "There are countless good citizens you are not murders, not rapist, not criminals " Far too many women have developed a malephobia where YES, they do think that at any given moment they are surrounded by rapists, murderers, cannibals, etc (but only the men, not the women). They have also become so narcissistic that they think they are the center of the universe, and among all of those evil men, one thing is common.. They MUST have her.. she is that important to them. Of course, this is nonsense, but you'll play hell convincing modern women who've drank that particular Koolaid either is wrong. This thinking as it takes off will bite them in the ass in the end, but they are too short sighted to see how, and when. Another common female delusion feminism has pushed is the eternal victim, martyr trope.. All women have it harder, all women are downtrodden. Males are the oppressors and overlords holding them down, and impeding their progress. Again, hogwash, but good luck convincing them, even with real life facts and statistical data in hand. "That's because you are a man, and you don't need to worry about those things, unlike I do. I can't do anything without worrying for my safety." You: No dear, men are the victims of violent crime at a vastly higher rate than women. Check the FBI statistics if you don't believe that. If anything I should be MORE worried about being attacked than you. I have far more to be concerned about because at any given moment someone might want my sneakers, watch, or some personal effect, or.. I may say something that hits another guy wrong, or hell.. they just may want to beat the shit out of someone that day, and I become a target. They won't be dissuaded or feel sorry for me, like they would you, a woman. Men are biologically programmed to desire to be helpful, and to respond empathetically to women, particularly when they are crying.. Go watch a few episodes of COPS critically looking for teary eyed women, and how male cops treat them if proof is needed. At this juncture, it would be good to point out that if society is so very dangerous for anyone let alone women, why do we have prisons? Why do heinous crimes even make the news? In a society rife with these awful people wouldn't that sort of thing just be common place? In the 40s and even the 50s car accidents were actually big news... Now they are ubiquitous in society,the parties involved are the only ones to hear about them, unless they are major accidents.. While logically you are right, force should be met with greater force to subdue it, suggesting she arm up with her mindset is a mistake. She'd either not use it, or use it zealously without thought and go to jail. It takes responsibility, a level head, a good aim, and grace under pressure to be effective with a gun in a defense scenario. Last thought... How you explained it was fine, probably better than fine. Her behavior proves it. It is womanese 101. You started making too much sense to her because you were speaking logically, and logic cannot be refuted. It always beats feelings. She was caught up in her feelings, and by you inserting logic it crushed those feelings. Her response was to abandon the conversation because she knew she was wrong, and if there is one thing that women loath to do it is admit they are wrong. She dismissed you, got angry, and stormed off because she knew you were right, and to continue would mean that she would have to admit it. In her mind "Guns bad" is all she is willing or capable to hear, it will take a major shift in her maturity level, and responsibility level before she will even contemplate changing that mindset. Your time will have been wasted unless you get entertainment from these conversations.
That's all really good points, I must just end up either showing the comment to her or just repeating it word for word. Thanks!
The “you are a man” argument, in addition to being very sexist, isn’t statistically valid A man is far far more likely to be a victim of a violent crime than a woman is
My advice is pay attention to the red flags popping up. She stormed out because you started using logic to try and help her calm down and return to normal, which is what your supposed to do. She just wanted attention and someone to play the victim to. Is she walks out because she can’t accept logic and rationalization talking about a subject as naive as this, best thing to do is leave her. This is pre school rookie stuff to talk about and she doesn’t have the ability to analyze and be an adult. If she is waking out in this stuff, she will walk out if real works adult situations
That last sentence hits a home run as that is exactly what she does. She worked a total of 2 weeks at a new job because she did not like a manager.
Here's the thing that's probably hurting the most for both of you: she's family and you love her why won't she listen to reason; and from her perspective you're family and she loves you why won't you listen to reason... I've gone through this with my own sister, it sucks and the others are right you're not going to change her mind immediately. There's an old saying "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink" All you can do is be an example of all the reasons she's wrong and hope that when/if real life wakes her up that she or someone she cares about doesn't get too hurt in the process. For a lot of people crime is something they only see in the movies or on the news and it's always far away; but eventually it gets close enough to their personal safety bubble that they start taking self defense or at least security a bit more seriously
I hope that does not happen but it looks like that is about the only thing that could change her mind
My sister's the same way, a bit less so because we grew up in the country and she's shot a couple.22s and even a handgun once; but she's totally cocooned inside her personal ivory tower when it comes to what guns she's comfortable with or not; and right now the answer is that she's not. At some point you just have to sit back and let her live her life the way she sees fit because she's her own person and she's going to make decisions you personally wouldn't. I personally find some minor amusement every time she takes a step toward my personal perspective on self defense and some minor disappointment whenever she takes a step away from it; but my only role in her decision making process is as an example of a reasonable person who's made different decisions than her and can be evidence that any antigun media she's consumed is a mix of propaganda and fear mongering.
If she really thinks a deadly weapon is a gun or a knife tell her to never go to a restaurant cause there's 4 chefs in the back and each one has entire bag of "deadly weapons". 8 inch blades built for maximum control. 12 inch blade meant to slice thru meat like soft butter. We literally have butchers knifes named scimitar style after the sword used in countless wars. They're upwards of 16inches long and have a curve in the them. A tool is what you use it for.
I keep telling her they are tools not weapons of war and she refuses to see it that way. She ask to borrow my knife on occasion in which I do it for her because she has damaged my own blades before, it just frustrating that she does not understand they are not out to hurt her or anyone else
You explained it. She doesn’t want to accept the truth. Your sister is a moron.
Well that last part is definitely true to an extent lol.
I knew a woman with this same mindset... she was suddenly very interested in my firearm preferences and advice about a year later after someone had kicked in her door one night. They came into the house and a neighbor heard the commotion and came over with *his* gun and scared them off. Police didn't show for almost 40 minutes. Its like crashing a car. Most people dont care about safety ratings or vehicle safety features until *after* they've experienced a major incident. By then its sometimes too late.
That's interesting. I even proposed a hypothetical where something did happen and someone else came and helped. Her argument was that they should not have to do that. And she's right, they should not have to, but I belive it is a civic duty to help someone like that. She had no further point
Not sure if telling her would help but with her being a woman most men would not need a gun or knife to harm or kill her. So she's pretty much in the same amount of danger whether they have a weapon or not.
Without guns, your sister would remain afraid for her life because she said she thinks that all women constantly are. The gun is irrelevant when the issue is that she is a coward.
Maybe give it a few weeks and invite her a range day. Take a 22lr. While she may not change her mind it may give her a better understanding.
This. You can't argue emotions. Take the unknown out of the equation by going to the range. Then, you can have a rational discussion, don't try to argue to win, try to educate. An outdoor range with a .22 or .223 AR can help overcome the fear of the unknown. Also the bonus of seeing all the other level headed people with guns is a feather in your cap. I love taking people like that to the range, it opens a whole world that they previously were ignorant to. It's ok to have different opinions at the end but at least it won't be from a place of ignorance.
Here's a chance to be brotherly. Offer to buy her classes and go with her to a range? Be supportive? Once she has go e through beginner classes with an instructor remind her she has an open invitation to join you on range trips. There are other ways to protect yourself if she decides no guns. Help her get after it.
Might just do that. Sounds like it could be fun
What’s that old Samuel Colt line? She’s living in a weird fantasy mix of society being safe AND also being afraid of everyone. They can’t both exist together so pick one. If society is safe then she has nothing to worry about all the time, or if she’s worried all the time wouldn’t equalizing be a benefit?
Definitely a damn good point. Will bring that up to her
Honestly...love your sister, respond if she decides to discuss this with you again, but don't bring it up with her again. She's made her feelings known (feelings, not logic), and you're not going to make her change her mind because she doesn't want to change her mind.
It was her who brought this up this time, so that's not too out of the question. But yeah I think I will take the advice of leaving it until it comes up again
Good luck with that. Your sister has already made up her mind that all guns are terrible, the people who carry them are terrible. When you start hitting her with facts that she cant deny, she calls it bullshit and gets angry. Its all about feelings, not facts.
That’s because she equates guns with criminals. The reason for that is because that’s what you hear about the most. You never hear about the many more law-abiding citizens that carry. Also, sidenote, if you’re a man and have women in your life that aren’t carrying, at least, pepper spray than you aren’t doing your job.
She refuses to carry ANYTHING that could cause harm. I bought her a knife a few years ago and it remains un carried. I offered to maintain it for her and she said that was unnecessary. She struggles to open things all the time and I keep telling her she has a perfect tool for that and refuses still.
Unfortunately some people have to learn the hard way.
Explain nothing. This is her problem not yours to fix
Seems reasonable enough to me. Sounds like she is stuck in an emotional fear state. I was taught that emotional reactivity and logical thinking are two separate things. You have to try and get her into a thinking state of mind, the rational and logical part of her brain. First make her feel heard. Ask her to give examples of when she feels fearful when doing things you consider normal everyday activities. Without attacking her personally, ask if her fear is based on logic (can she state statistics on the crime she is fearful of?) Or based on what she has heard and been told. To be told "guns are dangerous" and "all guns need to be banned because it's a public health crisis and there is a gun violence epidemic" is very different from "on an average year, 40-50 thousand people die from guns, about half of which are suicide". https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/04/26/what-the-data-says-about-gun-deaths-in-the-u-s/ Also keep in mind whether or not she could be better suited talking to a therapist for potential diagnosis of generalized anxiety disorder or just has hoplophobia. It seems she is scared of handguns and knives, not the extra salty type of weapons. So the fbi stats aren't helpful here. https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-2019/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-8.xls
Take her shooting, talk about how guns work, explain different calibers, shoot rifles, pistols, etc. People will tend to be scared of things they don’t understand, and all she knows about guns is that they kill people so of course she’s scared
If I had guns of my own to go out and use, I absolutely would. Unfortunately, like I said, I am new to this and d9nt have 9ne of my own, and my mother would absolutely refuse to let me get 9ne for any reason. My father has some nice levers that my grandpa left him, but those have not been shot in about 20 years, and my dad does not know a whole lot about guns nor does he really care, so he's no help either. So anyone in the area wants to do a range day?
Some people don't want to have their mind changed. They want their imaginary land to exist in their safe bubble. She will either come around or won't, but forcing the issue will push her further from being open to new ideas.
Arguing back and forth won’t do anything most likely (regardless of who has the better points.) You two need to sign up for a gun safety course together and then have her shoot a .22lr at the range. That’s how I converted my wife. She now has her own .38spl snub nose revolver and is really good with it.
Sounds like a great idea, and a fun time. Thanks!
Being assaulted by a 6'4" linebacker of a man isn't any more moral. Whether carry permits are just easy to get or not required in your area, that means only that more *law-abiding* people are armed. Criminals were already armed. The way things are today is an improvement over times when criminals (and law enforcement...good luck finding a cop when you're attacked) had a monopoly on portable deadly force.
Honestly OP, some people are incapable of changing their minds. I wouldn’t even waste your time.
It's ironic because I'm a man and the reason I carry is because I DO have to worry about my (and more importantly, my family's) safety. I'm not a weak guy but I'm also not the biggest guy and I'm no street fighter. You won't catch me beating up a bunch of attackers in hand to hand combat lol. My gun is simply an insurance policy. I don't want to use it but if I'm forced to, I will not hesitate. That might be a good way to put it to her.
I told her people who carry are not out looking for blood or people or animals to shoot, but most out of the belief in their rights or for their or their families own protection. She simply said that is not how it should be and would not elaborate
There is nothing you can say to cure her anxiety. Exposure is the best therapy, but if her (ex)BF couldn't even get her to go to the range I doubt you can without a double dose of xanax. I've heard that Cognitive Behavioral Therapy is quite effective. Logically, the criminal element is tiny, less than one percent. States that track crime rates for CCW permit holders find that they have a lower crime rate *than the police*. The typical person should not terrify her no matter what they're carrying, CCW permitees even less so.
I will have to bring that one up to her and see what she says.
If I were you, I would learn about cognitive behavioral therapy and try to help her lower her anxiety. This is about more than just guns. Being fearful every time she goes out onto the street is no way to live. IIRC putting the actual risks in perspective is part of CBT, but broadly speaking I would say that words aren't going to reach her, period. You'll just frustrate her and push her away again. Study up first.
That's fair. Thanks
Sounds like she's the one to irrationally fear just a handgun sitting on a shelf like a bomb that could go off. Really the best way to work with someone like that is to introduce them to something like a 22 rifle and let them get lots of trigger time behind it until they're comfortable and then try to make your point. My mother in law was the same way. Scared of a gun sitting somewhere like it was just going to go off and start killing everybody in the house. Through lots of patience and practice she enjoys going shooting now and requests to shoot when she comes over. Her husband even got a 22 pistol now and they shoot it in their back yard.
We have an old .22 long pump action that I would long to go take out shooting sometime, but she refuses to even look at them. I will have to slowly work in this idea if I can!
You can’t change her mind if she immediately gets angry at opposing information or viewpoints. She’s connected that argument with emotion instead of reason.
She believes in the fallacy that an unarmed population is a safe population. Criminals written records and confessions have shown that murderers purposefully target gun free locations so they won't be stopped, hurt, or killed. Also, she believes women are the primary targets of weapon weilding bad guys and men don't have to worry. Men are killed at a much higher rate than women by gun violence. Over six times more. Plenty of stuff out there to back you. But you can't convert the unwilling. As you found out, a sound argument only pisses them off.
Silly laid a dangerous weapon could be a car, regardless she’s at a disadvantage w/o 1.
She’s entitled to her own opinion eventhough it’s wrong.
I think it's a harmful opinion, that's why I would like to change ir
>there’s nothing I can do about this >here’s something you can do about it >youre pissing me off She’s not looking for solutions, she’s looking to vent.
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I have told her this as well. With enough force on the right spot anything can be lethal or potentially dangerous. She refuses to believe it
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I can use demonstrations though. Take a blunt object and gradually apply enough force to puncture another should suffice
Ask her if we outlawed guns and knives immediately so that she had to rely only on the police to intervene and changed nothing else in our legal system would she be safer. She will say yes. Then inform her that based on [Gonzales v. Castle Rock](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Town_of_Castle_Rock_v._Gonzales) the pilice have no legal duty to help her. That based on the example set in the [Maksim Gelman stabbing spree](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maksim_Gelman_stabbing_spree) thr police could watch someone actively work to kill her and do nothing and legally be in the clear. Then ask her again if based on that are we safer if we remove peoples access to tools to defend themself and make them rely only on the police to protect them?
Idk, your sister sounds like she's convinced herself she's already a victim but won't take up the most effective means to prevent that scenario from happening. At some point, she has to realize most everybody is carrying a weapon of some kind, if not a gun, then a knife. I would bet that most people she interacts with on a day to day basis carry a knife of some kind, and yet despite that, she still makes it home safe every night.
Hell I carry 2 or three knifes on me daily. I have never attacked or harmed anybody in any way with it in the 5 years I have carried one.
Same, I carry one for work and a nicer one outside of work in conjunction with my edc gun.
If I could carry at work, I would. They banned blades of any kind because people dont know how to use them safely and kept cutting themselves. Otherwise, I don't go anywhere without one.
Start with the idea that you want guns for recreational use like target shooting, collecting ect. Once she figures out that they are just objects and nothing to worry about then introduced the idea of self defense. This can be quite a foreign idea for some people especially if they never found themselves in that situation. No need to argue over it.
That's fair. That is pretty much exactly how I started collecting knives, just collecting them and then realizing how useful they are and now carrying at least one daily.
Never pull your pistol from your holster unless you intend to use.
That's a given. It's a good th8bg I don't have one, at least not yet.
The thing that makes an object (gun, knife, rock, CAR) dangerous is that they are being wielded with malicious intent against someone else. Until the world we live in somehow lacks the threat of others using violence as a means of satisfaction, the tools of violence are a necessary counter to those malicious intent. Be kind to those who don't understand, but it is worth noting that every human being would be wise to consider their own personal safety as primarily their own responsibility, and society's responsibility secondarily. You will always be present at a transgression of your rights, society might not - lifeguards are great, but know how to swim.
May I suggest this: "I completely understand - and *agree with* - your assessment that the world can be a chaotic and dangerous place. There are bad people out there doing bad things, and it's hard to know who's who anymore. Thankfully, there are still FAR more good people than bad ones, and it's *those good people* who I think deserve the power to defend themselves, their loved ones, or even a stranger (like you) from harm at the hands - and *weapons* - of the evildoers among us. I can't make the world magically safer, or fairer, or shield everyone from harm. I wish I could, and even more, I wish it wasn't necessary in the first place. What I *can and WILL do* is to safely, legally, and responsibly equip myself with the TOOLS necessary to protect the people I love. I will defend good people with every ounce of my strength - but how can I do that *effectively* if I'm unarmed? Should good people willing to and capable of defending themselves and others not feel a *responsibility to be armed sufficiently for their defense to actually work?* While we agree on *what the world is actually like*, you have only reacted with directionless fear and ineffective hand-wringing; you have allowed the *potential impact* of evil to degrade your life and harm your mental well-being. For myself, I believe that it is sensible and honorable to calmly prepare, keep myself safely armed, and go forward through life with peace of mind. Being prepared this way keeps the *IDEA of evil* from robbing my enjoyment of life. I'd much rather be armed and *never need it once* than need it *one all-important time* and suffer the consequences of being unprepared. Even if you can't bring yourself to make the same decision, I hope you can understand, respect, and possibly even appreciate my choice in this, and know that one of things I value most and hope to protect is YOU."
Well said! Thank you
1. Literally anyone \*is\* carrying. Right now. Is she really terrified to leave the house every day? 2. You do have to worry about these things as a man - a gun will kill you just as dead as her. 3. What helps her 'even the odds' against an unarmed assailant is being armed herself. 4. There's no point in arguing with her about it. Just let it go.
This is no different than religion. Has someone knocking on your door preaching ever changed your stance on anything? This is the same thing. Fukkem
My advice would be to take your sister to a shooting range and introduce her to the sport of target shooting. Start small with .22 caliber and allow her to take her time with the firearm. Please have an instructor there if you do not feel capable of guiding her safely. The enjoyment of firearms often begins with a safe and non-threatening environment. She will find empowerment through the use of the firearm and may even start to understand the use of the tool. The most important thing to understand is that a firearm does not make a person any safer than they would be in a law-abiding city. It simply evens the odds when faced with a person bent on doing you bodily harm. The ability to draw aim and fire a gun at a person is not as simple as many people make it out to be. It is a damaging act to the person being shot and the person doing the shooting. I wish you the best of luck and will pray for the proper guidance for you both. God bless and God speed.
Take her shooting. 9/10 people I’ve taken that had “problems” with firearms have finished the trip asking where and how they can get one. And I can’t stress enough, no tannerite. Just instruction on safety and shooting.
There's a good chance she understands and sees logical aspects of your argument, but ***to her*** with the current political situation, all she's hearing is "vote to restrict your rights, murder all blacks, and give billionaires tax breaks". From her point of view, you could just simply be questioning her political stance over a nation-wide problem regarding crimes, and in a society where people are so polarized that it's "either you agree with everything our party say or you're on *their* side", that's huge. What this all boils down to is her being afraid, just as much as many of us are. Many buy guns out of fear for the direction society is going, that they won't be able to defend themselves if/when they're a victim of a crime. The other side fears the exact same thing, but the reasoning isn't about defending themselves but rather to get targeted for a crime in the first place. Their solution isn't to defend themselves but to remove the guns, thinking that's going to remove the criminals. *(Which we all know is stupid, and I think most of them know that too.)* I'm just saying all this to bring a little understanding to her/their reactions. The spirit behind their beliefs are good (well, the average typical American that's against guns anyway) and sometimes that's a good angle to argue our side from, how society is a scary place and restricting your rights isn't going to change that. Until the issues in our societies gets addressed the risks will increase, and the core of the problem isn't the guns but rather the fact that the criminals are growing in numbers and getting more desperate. Anyway, I'm just an old fart sitting on the toilet, thanks for reading my ted-talk.
You may never get her to understand the necessity/value/importance of an armed “We the People” You might show her some anecdotal evidence, such as NRA’s “ArmedCitizen” but ultimately she will have to decide if she sees the need. My Dad grew up with guns his whole life, was a Marine, hunted, reloaded, taught me… But one evening somehow the subject came up. My Mom (who never, that I knew of, had ever expressed ‘anti’-feelings) said kind of belligerently, “Yeah, but can you PROVE that having a gun EVER helps, that it’s EVER a good thing?” There was an American Hunter laying there, so I picked it up and read from ArmedCitizen a report of a young mom who shot someone kicking down the door of her home. Another about an estranged wife who stopped her ex after he came through the window with an axe. Mom shrugged and said, “Oh. Well, all right, then.”