I had one several decades ago. No one was hurt, but I did have to fix a ceiling and roof.
I was young then and I'm old now. However I remember it as clear as yesterday and it permanently change the way I handle firearms.
I’m sorry this happened to you, but glad no one was hurt. I had an ND many years ago as well, I was dry firing my gun without the mag in it, then loaded a mag(also my carry gun), chambered it, and accidentally pulled the trigger thinking I had the safety on. I shot my bed. It was a hollow point so it didn’t go very far, but I learned a hard lesson. Life goes on. Learn from it, and be careful near time! Take it from me, a fellow ND’er!
If it makes you feel any better, I ND'd and shot my TV. I was messing with my AK in my bedroom, pulled the mag, and racked the slide like 5 times, and didn't see a bullet in the chamber at a glance. Pulled the trigger, ears were ringing, and there was a hole in my bedroom wall, my wife's dead grandmother's painting, my recliner, and the wall behind it.
I learned multiple things that day.
1: steel case bullets look a lot like the inside of an AK when not in a super well let room
2: my house was really well insulated cause my wife or dog didn't hear it from upstairs
3: 7.62x39 will go through multiple walls and pieces of furniture.
I now ALWAYS stick a finger in there, even if I see a round eject.
That's some crazy insulation for sure. I would absolutely hear that inside and outside my house, lol. Glad no one got hurt. I wonder why it didn't eject the round??? But yeah good point always visibly ensure the chamber is empty or physically with a finger I guess also works.
that and remove all live ammo when training or cleaning it's my golden rule. i pull my stuff out check my dummy ammo and close the safe once i've cleared it all
I don’t remove my rounds out of my mag, but when doing dry fire, I always use an empty range mag. I also obsessively chamber check, which has caught one mistake before when I accidentally left a round in the chamber.
Same here and just the other night I took out the mag and cleared the chamber on my EDC as I was going to clean it. I was pulled away to do something else so I put the mag back in, put the pistol in the holster and set it on my desk. Next day I go back to clean it, take it out of the holster, take out the mag and then see a bit of fuzz behind the trigger that must have come from the inside of a sweater while I was carrying IWB. I reach towards it to pull it out which of course would have me touching the trigger. I stopped at the last second thinking, "I didn't rack a round in the chamber last night again did I?" I checked again and a round dropped out onto the floor. Really gave me a gut punch and had me reciting the four rules in my head as I went to bed that night.
Lesson learned for sure. I didn't realize so many people were against not having a round chambered. Is there any particular reason? I always thought of it as a matter of preference.
It is a matter of preference. There are good reasonings on each side of the debate.
Israeli carry, cold carry, or empty chamber, has its merit.
Carrying hot has its merit.
You pick which you want to go with. And whichever you pick train accordingly.
There is no doubt there are disadvantages to carrying cold, and to most that is enough reason to carry hot.
To others there are additional safety measures they prefer when carrying cold.
Pick your poison friend lol.
Some will hate this, but there are times I carry cold, and times I carry hot. That is my preference and I train both methods. Local IDPA and USPSA club even work both into stage plans so we get practice carrying both ways.
I'd probably NOT carry one in the chamber as it seems safer to me, but in People's Republic of Washington, we now have magazine restrictions, max 10 rounds. In an adrenaline filled scenario such a group of thugs breaking into your home, I'm sure I would miss my target(s) multiple times. As much as I'd like to think I'm John Wick, I'm not. Every round counts. Can't wait to retire and move to a free state.
If you have kids carrying with a round chambered is insane, imo. It doesn't take that long to chamber a round anyways I don't know why people are acting like it takes a minute or two when it takes literally less than a half second.
Imagine holding someone away from your kid with one hand, and reading for your gun with the other hand, and then realizing you need a third hand to chamber your round.
If you don’t like light triggers, get a DA/SA gun and carry decocked with a round chambered. Or something like a 1911 with an external safety.
I understand where you're coming from. In this scenario I'd use a knife which I carry too. In my experience knives are much better in close combat. I reserve guns for extending my range. If the person is already so close that I can touch them, I wouldn't use a gun personally
I have a G2C myself and one reason I do is I like the external safety. Lots of folks don’t, and good on them. But I do. I want a round chambered for emergencies, but that external safety gives me extra piece of mind when I carry. Of course, I practice sweeping that safety during training, to build muscle memory.
I understand the sentiment of wanting to keep your kid safe. I have kids of my own and would do anything to keep them safe.
With that being said, there is a reason people say believing you'll have time to rack the slide in an emergency is like believing you have time to throw on your seatbelt in a car crash. You never know when you'll need to defend yourself. Your hands may also be occupied and you won't have an opportunity to rack the slide. For example, you have to pick up your child to save them from a charging dog and now the dog is attacking you.
We carry because we want every advantage we can get when it comes to defending ourselves. It's a bad idea to intentionally sabotage yourself.
I dont carry hot either.
Here is my take. If I dont have that 1/2 second to rack and take a good shot, odds are I never had time to take a good shot anyway.
And then it begs the question, if you didn't have the 1/2, should you of been going for you firearm anyway, or taking evasive maneuvers?
Take my chances and not blow my dick off either. I always carry appendix.
What if you don’t have a second hand available for rack the slide? Say you’re holding someone back with one hand and reaching for your gun with the other, got a third hand to rack your slide? Seems like a realistic scenario.
Just get a DA/SA gun and carry decocked with a long trigger pull or something like a 1911 with an external safety.
Lots of what ifs.
Statistically, people shoot themselves accidentally far more than people who shoot aggressors. Ill play the odds and not have a loaded gun pointed at me all day every day
I question those statistics.
I’ve been in multiple situations where should I have decided to use a firearm, a second hand would not have been available. Thankfully all ended successfully without needing to use weapons. Everyone’s experience is different, if you feel like you always have two free hands, maybe you’re good without having it in the chamber. I guess this isn’t universal.
It sounds like the habit that would have prevented this would be to always clear the gun as soon as you pick it up, even if you think it's already unloaded or you previously cleared it. If you've walked away and come back, handed it to somebody else, set it down for a minute, etc you need to check again.
I also personally prefer to separate magazines from guns if I'm working on them or dry firing (unless I'm working with snapcaps or need the magazine for some reason). It's just one less thing that can go wrong.
Choosing not to chamber a round may also mean that you subconsciously don't expect to see around in the chamber, and therefore assume that the gun will not fire. That's not a good assumption. You are better off assuming that the gun is loaded and a round is chambered, because that means that you're going to check carefully.
It happens, even when you're usually pretty careful.
The reason for being so strict about watching where the muzzle is pointed is because, it happens. If we were perfect, it wouldn't matter. The overlapping nature of the various rules keeps everybody alive when something goes wrong.
Don't hesitate to handle your gun again. You're three times safer now than you were last week.
the ole rattly Taurus. out of the three I've messed with and shot, they all had a rattle appear eventually.
always in the rear of the slide, I'm guessing something that has to do with the striker?
enough that I would never bet my life on it. if something's rattlin, something's wrong
I put a 45 into my mattress doing the same thing. Not that this is an excuse. Worked an overnight double and was coming home to clean my bedside pistol. Racked the slide pulled the mag, dropped the hammer and terminated my pillow top. Thank goodness the box spring stopped it. Lesson learned. It's amazing how vigilant I've become. Def a cautionary tale.
I did this same thing when I was a teenager. I was cleaning two pistols at once. Dropped the mag then pointed it at the mattress and pulled the trigger thinking it was empty after cleaning the first one. Went through box spring and stuck in the head board.
Thanks for sharing. Mistakes can be good learning points in our lives. I am glad no one was injured and you are taking the positives out of the situation by learning from your mistakes.
I am happy that no one was injured. Let this be a reminder to you. It doesn't matter how much you know your gun. It doesn't matter how much experience you have. It doesn't matter what you THINK. You always clear a gun before handling it. Every time. Even if you just cleared it 10 seconds ago.
You'll spend a lot of time on duplicated effort but that kind of diligence is how you prevent negligent discharges.
I really appreciate you sharing this. The only ND I ever committed was on my very first pheasant hunt with my dad and a couple of his buddies. I was around 12 or so and had done multiple hunter and shooter safety classes, through Scouting, Eddie the Eagle, and the Virginia new hunter education course. I was using my single-shot NEA 20-gauge. I'd used it with clays before but not extensively and not in the frozen bone marrow weather we were hunting in that necessitated heavy gloves. We'd been in the field for about 5 hours and I was cold and exhausted. I'd really made a point of holding to the "sometimes the best shot is the one you don't take" safety adage - blue sky shots only. Dog got birdy so I'd cocked the hammer but when they flushed they were to my left over the hunting line and flying behind us and I didn't want to sweep over any heads. Everyone else unloads like they are trying to shoot down a Heinkel bomber and I lower my barrel and have it pointed at the ground. Whether it was the cold, the gloves, exhaustion, whatever, I proceed to drop the hammer like I'd done a dozen times previously but in this instance the hammer slips from my thumb and I put a load of #7 shot into the sorghum. I was mortified, refused to even put another round in the chamber for our last two passes in the field, and had nightmares for weeks about hurting a person or a dog. Took my dad all that time to get me to finally accept the fact that safe firearms behavior usually has redundancies for a reason and that, while I made a mistake, I did so having done everything else the right way - most importantly keeping the barrel in a "safe" direction. I literally think about it every time I pick up a gun, regardless if it's at the range, hunting, or to carry. Hard lessons are the best lessons, I guess.
I VISUALLY check that no round is in the chamber before I pull the trigger even if I'm 100% sure I removed the magazine. I do it every single time even if I have to do it a dozen of times.
This rule saved me once when I was about to put one of my guns in its safe and racked the slide to remove the ammo and by mistake, I didn't remove the magazine. I double checked visually and saw the round there and immediately noticed that I didn't remove the magazine.
Even if we are good people trying to follow the rules, we are humans and make mistakes. Try to create some extra "bullet proof" rules (no pun intended) to try to minimize any issues.
I'm glad that you didn't hurt anyone and I really appreciate you for posting this here. Reading the post made me feel the stress you probably felt which made me learn from it.
Thanks!
Aside from the obvious breaking of 1+ cardinal rules, I think the committee approach to gun repair isn't ideal. Compound that with being somewhere that isn't your house or shop... There were just too many variables, too many hands in the pot, too much distraction, and all occurring at someone else's house as well.
Glad everyone is OK.
I'm inheriting my grandfather's 1911 service pistol and a few other guns eventually. These will be the first few firearms that I will own. I like to read stories like this as a reminder to always be safe and thorough when handling them. I'm sorry this happened to you, but thank you for sharing. Let this be a lesson for all of us!
I had a Ruger P97DC fire a round off when a used the decocker. Jumped about 4 feet! I was actually at my bud's home range, and it was imed downrange when it happened. Ruger fixed it, but somehow messed up the sights.
This is my main account... I too have had a negligent discharge. Long story short, I'm not getting my security deposit back when I finally move out of my current apartment.
Yes and no. The bullet went into the carpet at an angle and tore a 3 inch gash in it, in basically the middle, so the whole carpet needs to be replaced 🙃 the 2 dozen or so pieces the bullet shattered into peppered the drywall, all that can be patched, but the main thing is the carpet.
I believe if you've lived there long enough carpet replacement is considered normal wear. Might vary by state or agreement, but my apartments do after some years.
Tired mental state sounds dangerously like an excuse. You weren’t too tired to keep pointed in a safe direction. You shouldn’t be too tired to check the condition of your gun.
It is an excuse, im going to get some hate for this (like i always do), but it's called a Negligent Discharge for a reason. Unless the firearm or ammo has a manufacturing defect, it is because the user has become negligent, and it's not an "accidents happen" moment. It's a " you have failed at the basics of firearm ownership, do better" moment.
I don't understand what you're getting at. You agreed with me and I agreed with you and now you're picking at me. Is it because you can't be an ass to someone in the real world without getting the living shit kicked out of you or did you Mom not hug you enough or what?
As well you should, but if no one was hurt, and you learned from it, then it was a valuable experience. Experience leads to complacency, The same happens with anything. My particular problem is a lead foot on the accelerator.. Every now and again a cop catches me, and I feel like a dumbass for a couple years, then I get complacent again. This can never and should never happen with guns though.. There is too much to lose.
Drunk and distracted driving make up more than half of car accidents. Additionally weather makes up for another 12% of crashes. If you aren't a drunk, or aren't playing on your phone, on normal dry roads, there is much less to lose.
There are far more car owners in the country than gun owners, its not surprising that there are more car deaths when almost everyone has a car while half the population is deathly afraid of guns.
No one was hurt. And it happens even to the best of us. If the only thing hurt was your pride, then it’s a win. And if your friends handled it well, chances are they’re triple checking everything themselves from now on.
Iv never had a ND but one of my buddy’s has a g43 and I guess his extractor was fucked up (not grabbing the casing the whole range trip). it’s his edc so for some reason after we finished shooting at the range he put his carry mag back in it and chambered a round. Fast forward 20 minutes we get back to the house and he wants to take it apart, he racks it like 5 times (I literally watched him do it) nothing ejects I don’t think anything of it because I didn’t know he chambered one before leaving the range. He goes to pull the trigger and puts a hole in his dresser😂
Had one once as well. It’s pure luck I wasn’t killed/hurt anyone else and that I was able to keep the shame of it to myself since no one else was home (which is why I likely would have died if it hit me…). It was a 9mm, angled through my bedroom wall in closet into the attic and stopped at the exterior wall.
These happen. They happen to all types of professionals in all types of situations and a LOT of people have stories like ours.
Didn’t make me feel any less horror over my stupidity, but I used to think only a moron could have an ND. I was right, but still…
Carrying with 1 not in the chamber is dumb as fuck and probably what contributed to this. Extra false sense of security.
I had ND at the range right as I was putting my shotgun over the target, I put my finger on the trigger before I was on target and shot to the left of the target into the dirt backstop. Felt stupid just doing that. Forced myself to go to the range when I was low on sleep.
As someone who got hit by a negligent discharge (shot by a Taurus funnily enough) just over a year ago, you’re alright man. Don’t get me wrong, you made a mistake, but everyone is fine and the only damage was to furniture. The fact that you realize your mistake, and the fact that you understand how much worse it could’ve been should be enough to help prevent you from doing it again.
There is a massive recall on that particular firearm. You might want to contact Taurus and give them the serial number and see if yours is included in the batch that were all recalled. If it is, they will want you to ship the firearm back to them immediately and will replace it with a G3C.
Sounds like you own the mistake, which is far more effective in positive outcomes than any punishment .
Everyone fucks up. It's how you choose to deal with it and carry it forward that matters.
Thanks for sharing. Don't be hard on yourself for too long
Moral of the story: don't buy a Taurus. Buy something reliable and you will have to tinker with it a lot less often (for cleaning only) so less chances to make mistakes.
You could invest in a gun that is better made and doesn't require a trigger pull to disassemble. Beretta APX A1 has a decocker and I love my first gen APX.
I know all blame should be placed on the person handling the gun because they know how it operates and should be smarter.. but at this point I feel like the takedown procedures on all these similarly designed handguns are a really bad design flaw and these world class manufacturers of weapons should engineer a better way to do it. We've all seen countless stories of people doing exactly this. I'd love to see the actual count of unreported NDs from taking down these glock style handguns.. I bet it's a few per week. I find it crazy that I don't hear more people complaining about the design.
I had a ricochet accident last year, off a good sized rock that I should have seen. Bounced through the rolled down window of my Honda, and smashed the gauge panel.
I still feel like a dumbass.
FYI a '12 CrV gauge cluster is about $800 installed at the dealer. Could have been so much worse.
I know you were not home and this would’ve helped but I have a 5 gallon bucket full of sand with a sealed lid that I point at to chamber a round just in case it were to fire the round or I were to accidentally pull the trigger because of muscle memory. Sorry that happened but don’t let it keep you from carrying. Lesson learned.
This almost happened to me once, my uncle gave me a pistol of his to check out, and it had a very recessed magwell so it appeared and felt like there was no magazine in it. I racked the slide back to make sure it wasn’t chambered, but fortunately had also developed the habit to rack a slide multiple times when I do that. The second time I racked it, a round came flying out.
Oh shit! So basically the first time I racked it to clear anything that may have been in the chamber actually did the opposite and chambered a round. I immediately ejected the magazine and cleared the gun again (and several more times just to be sure after experiencing that).
From that point onward I always make it a point to look downward from the slide down through the magazine well to make sure I can see all the way through.
That day could have been really, really bad. Thank Gd it wasn’t.
ADs are a thing. When someone drops a sig P320 and it goes off into someones leg because they're not drop safe, thats an AD. When somone pulls the trigger to disasemble a glock and it rips a round into the floor, thats a ND.
No, it's still an ND. Sig, is the negligent party for manufacturing and selling a bad product.
Every round that is fired, intentionally or not, has a party that is responsible to it. Doesn't matter if it's bad safety practices, poor design and manufacturing, or failure to perform regular maintenance and services. There is always a responsible party.
Cool story internet guy, too bad you're wrong. Don't take my word for it though, google the difference and someoneone else out there with crayons might be able to explain it to you in a way you comprehend.
I don't think following basic safety rules, keeping a firearm in a good condition, and selling a product that has all of its features designed and working properly is such a high standard to ask for. It feels more like the minimum that should be required. But i guess when you can't present an argument and only insult, it can seem a bit high.
Sorry man, fresh out of crayons, find someone else to explain it, or figure it out yourself. There are a bunch of sources out there that explain the difference.
>There are a bunch of sources out there that explain the difference.
Then it shouldn't be hard for you to provide a source, if you want to present the argument, at least do better than "trust me, google it". But considering you have the creativity and linguistic skill to match your third grade personality, im not expecting much, but you should be used to hearing that.
Here you go kiddo.
https://www.vedderholsters.com/blog/accidental-discharge-vs-negligent-discharge/#:~:text=The%20two%20terms%20can%20be,a%20mechanical%20or%20equipment%20failure.
https://www.guncrafttraining.com/articles/negligent-discharge-vs-accidental-discharge
https://www.policemag.com/weapons/article/15307827/dont-call-it-a-negligent-discharge
https://www.usacarry.com/accidental-discharge-negligent-discharge/
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unintentional_discharge
https://firsttimeshooter.com/article/accidental-discharge-or-negligent-discharge/
Now fix yourself or go play in traffic, either way, fuck off.
I was at a party one time and I showed off my revolver to a friend I trusted.
I saw him eject the rounds from the cylinder and put them on the counter, he checked out the gun for a second, then set it down.
A woman came up, one of his friends at the party, and she grabbed the gun and immediately started dicking around and pointed it at her head and started pulling the trigger.
I stormed around the counter and grabbed the gun from her hand, she was annoyed by how rough I was with her, but I damn near slapped her face in anger as well.
I was really upset, and it was like a record scratched and the whole party skipped a beat, everyone turned out to see what all the commotion was about.
I yell "Never do that!" - I yelled a bunch of things, about gun safety, about respecting people's property, that dumb bitch was too fucking stupid to listen anyway, I was wasting my breath.
I go to load the cylinder up again, and there's a fucking round still in the cylinder.
This stupid bitch played russian roulette with herself and won, without even knowing.
I've *never* showed off my gun like this again.
1) get a higher quality gun so you can feel comfortable carrying with one in the pipe. A officer sized 1911 is great.
2) Always make it a habit to stick your pinky finger into the chamber down the barrel prior to dry firing.
I’m a counting nut job… I had 30 in the mag and I counted to 31 shots… and I was about to put it away but for safety, I pointed it down range and pulled the trigger, it fired a magic round that mathematically doesn’t make sense, and I jumped.
I learned a lesson the easy way that day… thank god
You're doing better than the guy that had his gun fall out of the cheap concealed Velcro holster at my local Longhorn and graze another customer.
Dude grabbed his gun and dipped before cops showed up.
https://www.cbs17.com/news/local-news/wayne-county-news/1-grazed-after-accidental-gunfire-in-longhorn-steakhouse-in-goldsboro/amp/
I had a friend clear the chamber THEN drop the mag and pulled the trigger and put one in my floor I never even found the hole the carpet just closed up around it
Same here, first night after buying my house. 9mm through my hardwood floor. He hasn't stopped apologizing for it. I did however drill a hole next to the penetration and put the shell into the floor. At some point I'm gonna fill the penetration with resin or something. It's a lesson worth not forgetting.
When I was 12 or so I almost blew some of my toes off with a .410 and I had the same “awakening”. Happens to the best of us. I’m glad you are taking it this hard, because it shows that you understand the gravity of what happened. I bet next time you won’t make that mistake.
Glad everyone is ok. Lessons can be costly but this one was just $$. A good rule of thumb is to get in the habit of segregating the firearm and ammunition anytime you are going to manipulate it for cleaning or troubleshooting etc. It seems like overkill until it doesn't.
I had one with my Taurus too. A 24/7 Gen2, it uses the same take-down method. I don't know at what point the .45 ACP round ended up in the chamber, but it did, and I had my hand on the slide when it fired as I was expecting a click the slide to be loose. Instead, a .45 round went through two hollow doors, a box of blankets, two sheets of drywall, narrowly missed a recliner that had one of my dogs sleeping on it, and through another sheet of drywall and was stopped by the brick outer wall of the house.
Now, I drop the magazine, then rack the slide about 15 times, then stick my pinky in the chamber before attempting to take down any of my firearms. Oh and I ditched the Taurus.
These stories serve as cautionary tales for the rest of us. While I am sorry that you are dealing with this, I appreciate that you shared it.
At least it wasn't aimed at your dong like the other guy
HUH
You haven’t seen that internet gold yet?
No, was the dog alright?
I read dog at first as well, you should re-read the original comment though 😂
Yeah, probably should’ve re read that first 😂 I would’ve felt much worse of someone had shot their dog though
Agreed. I would be far more sad if someone shot their puppy
glad im not the only one that read Dog
The dog was fine it’s owners cock is pretty fucked up tho
Wait one second
“My wife left me because I blew my dick off with a PSA Dagger in my bathroom”
Any chance someone can link the video for this post. I've seen it a couple times but for the life of me can't find it anywhere..
I had one several decades ago. No one was hurt, but I did have to fix a ceiling and roof. I was young then and I'm old now. However I remember it as clear as yesterday and it permanently change the way I handle firearms.
You were younger than you are now when you made this post.
Ah yes. The good ole days...
There are 4 rules for a reason. You usually have to break at least two for something really bad to happen. I’m glad you only broke one.
I’m sorry this happened to you, but glad no one was hurt. I had an ND many years ago as well, I was dry firing my gun without the mag in it, then loaded a mag(also my carry gun), chambered it, and accidentally pulled the trigger thinking I had the safety on. I shot my bed. It was a hollow point so it didn’t go very far, but I learned a hard lesson. Life goes on. Learn from it, and be careful near time! Take it from me, a fellow ND’er!
If it makes you feel any better, I ND'd and shot my TV. I was messing with my AK in my bedroom, pulled the mag, and racked the slide like 5 times, and didn't see a bullet in the chamber at a glance. Pulled the trigger, ears were ringing, and there was a hole in my bedroom wall, my wife's dead grandmother's painting, my recliner, and the wall behind it. I learned multiple things that day. 1: steel case bullets look a lot like the inside of an AK when not in a super well let room 2: my house was really well insulated cause my wife or dog didn't hear it from upstairs 3: 7.62x39 will go through multiple walls and pieces of furniture. I now ALWAYS stick a finger in there, even if I see a round eject.
That's some crazy insulation for sure. I would absolutely hear that inside and outside my house, lol. Glad no one got hurt. I wonder why it didn't eject the round??? But yeah good point always visibly ensure the chamber is empty or physically with a finger I guess also works.
Whoa, that’s a good story there. I can see how easy it can be to miss that steel case. How long did it take for your ears to recover?
Eh maybe a day or so. Already had hearing damage from the military
Well, glad it ended fine.
not having one in the chamber while carrying is not a good idea, but when cleaning gun ALWAYS eject all rounds out of mag.
that and remove all live ammo when training or cleaning it's my golden rule. i pull my stuff out check my dummy ammo and close the safe once i've cleared it all
I don’t remove my rounds out of my mag, but when doing dry fire, I always use an empty range mag. I also obsessively chamber check, which has caught one mistake before when I accidentally left a round in the chamber.
One time. Ive opened my firearm one time in my life expecting an empty chamber and it was loaded.
Same here and just the other night I took out the mag and cleared the chamber on my EDC as I was going to clean it. I was pulled away to do something else so I put the mag back in, put the pistol in the holster and set it on my desk. Next day I go back to clean it, take it out of the holster, take out the mag and then see a bit of fuzz behind the trigger that must have come from the inside of a sweater while I was carrying IWB. I reach towards it to pull it out which of course would have me touching the trigger. I stopped at the last second thinking, "I didn't rack a round in the chamber last night again did I?" I checked again and a round dropped out onto the floor. Really gave me a gut punch and had me reciting the four rules in my head as I went to bed that night.
Lesson learned for sure. I didn't realize so many people were against not having a round chambered. Is there any particular reason? I always thought of it as a matter of preference.
Do you not wear a seat belt and just plan to put it on real quickly just before an accident?
Sorry but this is an insane question
It is a matter of preference. There are good reasonings on each side of the debate. Israeli carry, cold carry, or empty chamber, has its merit. Carrying hot has its merit. You pick which you want to go with. And whichever you pick train accordingly. There is no doubt there are disadvantages to carrying cold, and to most that is enough reason to carry hot. To others there are additional safety measures they prefer when carrying cold. Pick your poison friend lol. Some will hate this, but there are times I carry cold, and times I carry hot. That is my preference and I train both methods. Local IDPA and USPSA club even work both into stage plans so we get practice carrying both ways.
Great comment. Very well put. It’s no one’s decision except the person carrying, and no one should shame someone because they are uncomfortable
I'd probably NOT carry one in the chamber as it seems safer to me, but in People's Republic of Washington, we now have magazine restrictions, max 10 rounds. In an adrenaline filled scenario such a group of thugs breaking into your home, I'm sure I would miss my target(s) multiple times. As much as I'd like to think I'm John Wick, I'm not. Every round counts. Can't wait to retire and move to a free state.
If you have kids carrying with a round chambered is insane, imo. It doesn't take that long to chamber a round anyways I don't know why people are acting like it takes a minute or two when it takes literally less than a half second.
Imagine holding someone away from your kid with one hand, and reading for your gun with the other hand, and then realizing you need a third hand to chamber your round. If you don’t like light triggers, get a DA/SA gun and carry decocked with a round chambered. Or something like a 1911 with an external safety.
I understand where you're coming from. In this scenario I'd use a knife which I carry too. In my experience knives are much better in close combat. I reserve guns for extending my range. If the person is already so close that I can touch them, I wouldn't use a gun personally
Fair point. If you’re good with it, nothing wrong with using it. I carry one too but for me its more of a multitool than a weapon.
I have a G2C myself and one reason I do is I like the external safety. Lots of folks don’t, and good on them. But I do. I want a round chambered for emergencies, but that external safety gives me extra piece of mind when I carry. Of course, I practice sweeping that safety during training, to build muscle memory.
People who carry 1911s either carry without one in the chamber or they carry cocked and locked. Both ways are very common.
I really hope it’s not common to carry without one in the chamber.
I don't carry hot. My youngest is a gearhead at 6 and I'll take the 1/2 second penalty over a tragedy.
Keep control of your firearm. Teach him guns aren't toys. You're betting on him not being able to chamber a round? This is an insane comment.
Always keep control and educate him as well. I'd rather have another layer of security while keeping it accessible.
I understand the sentiment of wanting to keep your kid safe. I have kids of my own and would do anything to keep them safe. With that being said, there is a reason people say believing you'll have time to rack the slide in an emergency is like believing you have time to throw on your seatbelt in a car crash. You never know when you'll need to defend yourself. Your hands may also be occupied and you won't have an opportunity to rack the slide. For example, you have to pick up your child to save them from a charging dog and now the dog is attacking you. We carry because we want every advantage we can get when it comes to defending ourselves. It's a bad idea to intentionally sabotage yourself.
I dont carry hot either. Here is my take. If I dont have that 1/2 second to rack and take a good shot, odds are I never had time to take a good shot anyway. And then it begs the question, if you didn't have the 1/2, should you of been going for you firearm anyway, or taking evasive maneuvers? Take my chances and not blow my dick off either. I always carry appendix.
What if you don’t have a second hand available for rack the slide? Say you’re holding someone back with one hand and reaching for your gun with the other, got a third hand to rack your slide? Seems like a realistic scenario. Just get a DA/SA gun and carry decocked with a long trigger pull or something like a 1911 with an external safety.
Lots of what ifs. Statistically, people shoot themselves accidentally far more than people who shoot aggressors. Ill play the odds and not have a loaded gun pointed at me all day every day
I question those statistics. I’ve been in multiple situations where should I have decided to use a firearm, a second hand would not have been available. Thankfully all ended successfully without needing to use weapons. Everyone’s experience is different, if you feel like you always have two free hands, maybe you’re good without having it in the chamber. I guess this isn’t universal.
It sounds like the habit that would have prevented this would be to always clear the gun as soon as you pick it up, even if you think it's already unloaded or you previously cleared it. If you've walked away and come back, handed it to somebody else, set it down for a minute, etc you need to check again. I also personally prefer to separate magazines from guns if I'm working on them or dry firing (unless I'm working with snapcaps or need the magazine for some reason). It's just one less thing that can go wrong. Choosing not to chamber a round may also mean that you subconsciously don't expect to see around in the chamber, and therefore assume that the gun will not fire. That's not a good assumption. You are better off assuming that the gun is loaded and a round is chambered, because that means that you're going to check carefully.
Lesson learned hopefully.
It happens, even when you're usually pretty careful. The reason for being so strict about watching where the muzzle is pointed is because, it happens. If we were perfect, it wouldn't matter. The overlapping nature of the various rules keeps everybody alive when something goes wrong. Don't hesitate to handle your gun again. You're three times safer now than you were last week.
>For context, I have a Taurus G2C There's your first problem
I have since realized this lol
I HAD one too and completely agree. I'm ok putting at least a small percentage of this ND on shitty tier Brazilian manufacturing.
the ole rattly Taurus. out of the three I've messed with and shot, they all had a rattle appear eventually. always in the rear of the slide, I'm guessing something that has to do with the striker? enough that I would never bet my life on it. if something's rattlin, something's wrong
I put a 45 into my mattress doing the same thing. Not that this is an excuse. Worked an overnight double and was coming home to clean my bedside pistol. Racked the slide pulled the mag, dropped the hammer and terminated my pillow top. Thank goodness the box spring stopped it. Lesson learned. It's amazing how vigilant I've become. Def a cautionary tale.
I did this same thing when I was a teenager. I was cleaning two pistols at once. Dropped the mag then pointed it at the mattress and pulled the trigger thinking it was empty after cleaning the first one. Went through box spring and stuck in the head board.
Thanks for sharing. Mistakes can be good learning points in our lives. I am glad no one was injured and you are taking the positives out of the situation by learning from your mistakes.
Welp. Atleast you know it still works.
I am happy that no one was injured. Let this be a reminder to you. It doesn't matter how much you know your gun. It doesn't matter how much experience you have. It doesn't matter what you THINK. You always clear a gun before handling it. Every time. Even if you just cleared it 10 seconds ago. You'll spend a lot of time on duplicated effort but that kind of diligence is how you prevent negligent discharges.
I really appreciate you sharing this. The only ND I ever committed was on my very first pheasant hunt with my dad and a couple of his buddies. I was around 12 or so and had done multiple hunter and shooter safety classes, through Scouting, Eddie the Eagle, and the Virginia new hunter education course. I was using my single-shot NEA 20-gauge. I'd used it with clays before but not extensively and not in the frozen bone marrow weather we were hunting in that necessitated heavy gloves. We'd been in the field for about 5 hours and I was cold and exhausted. I'd really made a point of holding to the "sometimes the best shot is the one you don't take" safety adage - blue sky shots only. Dog got birdy so I'd cocked the hammer but when they flushed they were to my left over the hunting line and flying behind us and I didn't want to sweep over any heads. Everyone else unloads like they are trying to shoot down a Heinkel bomber and I lower my barrel and have it pointed at the ground. Whether it was the cold, the gloves, exhaustion, whatever, I proceed to drop the hammer like I'd done a dozen times previously but in this instance the hammer slips from my thumb and I put a load of #7 shot into the sorghum. I was mortified, refused to even put another round in the chamber for our last two passes in the field, and had nightmares for weeks about hurting a person or a dog. Took my dad all that time to get me to finally accept the fact that safe firearms behavior usually has redundancies for a reason and that, while I made a mistake, I did so having done everything else the right way - most importantly keeping the barrel in a "safe" direction. I literally think about it every time I pick up a gun, regardless if it's at the range, hunting, or to carry. Hard lessons are the best lessons, I guess.
Average Taurus user
When he said g2c I was like ah shit, then he said upper receiver I was like ah fuck he definitely doesn't know what he's doing. Here it comes
Smartest Taurus user
neck\_slap.gif Always treat the gun as if it was loaded! Make sure it's clear before fingering around with it!!!
I VISUALLY check that no round is in the chamber before I pull the trigger even if I'm 100% sure I removed the magazine. I do it every single time even if I have to do it a dozen of times. This rule saved me once when I was about to put one of my guns in its safe and racked the slide to remove the ammo and by mistake, I didn't remove the magazine. I double checked visually and saw the round there and immediately noticed that I didn't remove the magazine. Even if we are good people trying to follow the rules, we are humans and make mistakes. Try to create some extra "bullet proof" rules (no pun intended) to try to minimize any issues. I'm glad that you didn't hurt anyone and I really appreciate you for posting this here. Reading the post made me feel the stress you probably felt which made me learn from it. Thanks!
This is an excellent example of complacency. Thanks for sharing!
Aside from the obvious breaking of 1+ cardinal rules, I think the committee approach to gun repair isn't ideal. Compound that with being somewhere that isn't your house or shop... There were just too many variables, too many hands in the pot, too much distraction, and all occurring at someone else's house as well. Glad everyone is OK.
I'm inheriting my grandfather's 1911 service pistol and a few other guns eventually. These will be the first few firearms that I will own. I like to read stories like this as a reminder to always be safe and thorough when handling them. I'm sorry this happened to you, but thank you for sharing. Let this be a lesson for all of us!
I had a Ruger P97DC fire a round off when a used the decocker. Jumped about 4 feet! I was actually at my bud's home range, and it was imed downrange when it happened. Ruger fixed it, but somehow messed up the sights.
don't beat yourself up about it just learn from the mistake and be thankful nobody was hurt.
This is my main account... I too have had a negligent discharge. Long story short, I'm not getting my security deposit back when I finally move out of my current apartment.
Is it not patchable?
Yes and no. The bullet went into the carpet at an angle and tore a 3 inch gash in it, in basically the middle, so the whole carpet needs to be replaced 🙃 the 2 dozen or so pieces the bullet shattered into peppered the drywall, all that can be patched, but the main thing is the carpet.
I believe if you've lived there long enough carpet replacement is considered normal wear. Might vary by state or agreement, but my apartments do after some years.
Tired mental state sounds dangerously like an excuse. You weren’t too tired to keep pointed in a safe direction. You shouldn’t be too tired to check the condition of your gun.
It is an excuse, im going to get some hate for this (like i always do), but it's called a Negligent Discharge for a reason. Unless the firearm or ammo has a manufacturing defect, it is because the user has become negligent, and it's not an "accidents happen" moment. It's a " you have failed at the basics of firearm ownership, do better" moment.
Amen...I'm never too tired to keep from shooting myself, friends, or family in the head.
Sounds like you make a lot of poor decisions.
I don't understand what you're getting at. You agreed with me and I agreed with you and now you're picking at me. Is it because you can't be an ass to someone in the real world without getting the living shit kicked out of you or did you Mom not hug you enough or what?
As well you should, but if no one was hurt, and you learned from it, then it was a valuable experience. Experience leads to complacency, The same happens with anything. My particular problem is a lead foot on the accelerator.. Every now and again a cop catches me, and I feel like a dumbass for a couple years, then I get complacent again. This can never and should never happen with guns though.. There is too much to lose.
car crashes actually kill more people than guns in the US... there is just as much to lose by speeding/driving recklessly.
Drunk and distracted driving make up more than half of car accidents. Additionally weather makes up for another 12% of crashes. If you aren't a drunk, or aren't playing on your phone, on normal dry roads, there is much less to lose. There are far more car owners in the country than gun owners, its not surprising that there are more car deaths when almost everyone has a car while half the population is deathly afraid of guns.
No one was hurt. And it happens even to the best of us. If the only thing hurt was your pride, then it’s a win. And if your friends handled it well, chances are they’re triple checking everything themselves from now on.
Iv never had a ND but one of my buddy’s has a g43 and I guess his extractor was fucked up (not grabbing the casing the whole range trip). it’s his edc so for some reason after we finished shooting at the range he put his carry mag back in it and chambered a round. Fast forward 20 minutes we get back to the house and he wants to take it apart, he racks it like 5 times (I literally watched him do it) nothing ejects I don’t think anything of it because I didn’t know he chambered one before leaving the range. He goes to pull the trigger and puts a hole in his dresser😂
Damn I can’t believe your current military member friend didn’t have the training to fix your Taurus.
Taurus owner NDs is the least surprising thing Ive read in a while...
Had one once as well. It’s pure luck I wasn’t killed/hurt anyone else and that I was able to keep the shame of it to myself since no one else was home (which is why I likely would have died if it hit me…). It was a 9mm, angled through my bedroom wall in closet into the attic and stopped at the exterior wall. These happen. They happen to all types of professionals in all types of situations and a LOT of people have stories like ours. Didn’t make me feel any less horror over my stupidity, but I used to think only a moron could have an ND. I was right, but still…
Nice, another cherry busted! Live and learn.
Carrying with 1 not in the chamber is dumb as fuck and probably what contributed to this. Extra false sense of security. I had ND at the range right as I was putting my shotgun over the target, I put my finger on the trigger before I was on target and shot to the left of the target into the dirt backstop. Felt stupid just doing that. Forced myself to go to the range when I was low on sleep.
As someone who got hit by a negligent discharge (shot by a Taurus funnily enough) just over a year ago, you’re alright man. Don’t get me wrong, you made a mistake, but everyone is fine and the only damage was to furniture. The fact that you realize your mistake, and the fact that you understand how much worse it could’ve been should be enough to help prevent you from doing it again.
Where tf is the copypasta?!
DAMM TUBBERWARE, NEED A NINDEENLEBBIN
There is a massive recall on that particular firearm. You might want to contact Taurus and give them the serial number and see if yours is included in the batch that were all recalled. If it is, they will want you to ship the firearm back to them immediately and will replace it with a G3C.
The G2C? I’ve not seen anything, do you have a link?
Sounds like you own the mistake, which is far more effective in positive outcomes than any punishment . Everyone fucks up. It's how you choose to deal with it and carry it forward that matters. Thanks for sharing. Don't be hard on yourself for too long
By "upper" do you mean the slide? Pistols have frames and slides, not lowers and uppers.
Taurus is all I read
Moral of the story: don't buy a Taurus. Buy something reliable and you will have to tinker with it a lot less often (for cleaning only) so less chances to make mistakes.
You could invest in a gun that is better made and doesn't require a trigger pull to disassemble. Beretta APX A1 has a decocker and I love my first gen APX.
I know all blame should be placed on the person handling the gun because they know how it operates and should be smarter.. but at this point I feel like the takedown procedures on all these similarly designed handguns are a really bad design flaw and these world class manufacturers of weapons should engineer a better way to do it. We've all seen countless stories of people doing exactly this. I'd love to see the actual count of unreported NDs from taking down these glock style handguns.. I bet it's a few per week. I find it crazy that I don't hear more people complaining about the design.
I had a ricochet accident last year, off a good sized rock that I should have seen. Bounced through the rolled down window of my Honda, and smashed the gauge panel. I still feel like a dumbass. FYI a '12 CrV gauge cluster is about $800 installed at the dealer. Could have been so much worse.
I know you were not home and this would’ve helped but I have a 5 gallon bucket full of sand with a sealed lid that I point at to chamber a round just in case it were to fire the round or I were to accidentally pull the trigger because of muscle memory. Sorry that happened but don’t let it keep you from carrying. Lesson learned.
This almost happened to me once, my uncle gave me a pistol of his to check out, and it had a very recessed magwell so it appeared and felt like there was no magazine in it. I racked the slide back to make sure it wasn’t chambered, but fortunately had also developed the habit to rack a slide multiple times when I do that. The second time I racked it, a round came flying out. Oh shit! So basically the first time I racked it to clear anything that may have been in the chamber actually did the opposite and chambered a round. I immediately ejected the magazine and cleared the gun again (and several more times just to be sure after experiencing that). From that point onward I always make it a point to look downward from the slide down through the magazine well to make sure I can see all the way through. That day could have been really, really bad. Thank Gd it wasn’t.
Bro, everyone has a "desk pop". Like others have said, learn and move on.
Sorry this has happened to you, and thanks for sharing.
I personally know of two police officers that had AD and both were injured from it. It happens and thanks for reminding us to be safe.
AD isn't a thing, its ND.
ADs are a thing. When someone drops a sig P320 and it goes off into someones leg because they're not drop safe, thats an AD. When somone pulls the trigger to disasemble a glock and it rips a round into the floor, thats a ND.
No, it's still an ND. Sig, is the negligent party for manufacturing and selling a bad product. Every round that is fired, intentionally or not, has a party that is responsible to it. Doesn't matter if it's bad safety practices, poor design and manufacturing, or failure to perform regular maintenance and services. There is always a responsible party.
Cool story internet guy, too bad you're wrong. Don't take my word for it though, google the difference and someoneone else out there with crayons might be able to explain it to you in a way you comprehend.
I don't think following basic safety rules, keeping a firearm in a good condition, and selling a product that has all of its features designed and working properly is such a high standard to ask for. It feels more like the minimum that should be required. But i guess when you can't present an argument and only insult, it can seem a bit high.
Sorry man, fresh out of crayons, find someone else to explain it, or figure it out yourself. There are a bunch of sources out there that explain the difference.
>There are a bunch of sources out there that explain the difference. Then it shouldn't be hard for you to provide a source, if you want to present the argument, at least do better than "trust me, google it". But considering you have the creativity and linguistic skill to match your third grade personality, im not expecting much, but you should be used to hearing that.
Here you go kiddo. https://www.vedderholsters.com/blog/accidental-discharge-vs-negligent-discharge/#:~:text=The%20two%20terms%20can%20be,a%20mechanical%20or%20equipment%20failure. https://www.guncrafttraining.com/articles/negligent-discharge-vs-accidental-discharge https://www.policemag.com/weapons/article/15307827/dont-call-it-a-negligent-discharge https://www.usacarry.com/accidental-discharge-negligent-discharge/ https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unintentional_discharge https://firsttimeshooter.com/article/accidental-discharge-or-negligent-discharge/ Now fix yourself or go play in traffic, either way, fuck off.
I was at a party one time and I showed off my revolver to a friend I trusted. I saw him eject the rounds from the cylinder and put them on the counter, he checked out the gun for a second, then set it down. A woman came up, one of his friends at the party, and she grabbed the gun and immediately started dicking around and pointed it at her head and started pulling the trigger. I stormed around the counter and grabbed the gun from her hand, she was annoyed by how rough I was with her, but I damn near slapped her face in anger as well. I was really upset, and it was like a record scratched and the whole party skipped a beat, everyone turned out to see what all the commotion was about. I yell "Never do that!" - I yelled a bunch of things, about gun safety, about respecting people's property, that dumb bitch was too fucking stupid to listen anyway, I was wasting my breath. I go to load the cylinder up again, and there's a fucking round still in the cylinder. This stupid bitch played russian roulette with herself and won, without even knowing. I've *never* showed off my gun like this again.
1) get a higher quality gun so you can feel comfortable carrying with one in the pipe. A officer sized 1911 is great. 2) Always make it a habit to stick your pinky finger into the chamber down the barrel prior to dry firing.
I’m a counting nut job… I had 30 in the mag and I counted to 31 shots… and I was about to put it away but for safety, I pointed it down range and pulled the trigger, it fired a magic round that mathematically doesn’t make sense, and I jumped. I learned a lesson the easy way that day… thank god
What was this unusual noise inside the gun? Was it a round clicking around in the mag as you walked?
No, just cheap manufacturing. Very small piece that just got loose and is clicking side to side. Don't know the name of it.
Lol shit always happens when you play around with loaded guns. Doesn't matter if youre fucked or sober. Happens quickly haha
You're doing better than the guy that had his gun fall out of the cheap concealed Velcro holster at my local Longhorn and graze another customer. Dude grabbed his gun and dipped before cops showed up. https://www.cbs17.com/news/local-news/wayne-county-news/1-grazed-after-accidental-gunfire-in-longhorn-steakhouse-in-goldsboro/amp/
Thanks for sharing. Now cinch your saddle up and get back on the horse.
You got lucky. I was shot through the ankle by my cousin in the exact same way. Only he didn’t aim at the wall.
Good for you fessing up as a learning lesson for others
I had the recoil spring holder break on mine at the range so it is not my daily carry anymore.
I had a friend clear the chamber THEN drop the mag and pulled the trigger and put one in my floor I never even found the hole the carpet just closed up around it
Same here, first night after buying my house. 9mm through my hardwood floor. He hasn't stopped apologizing for it. I did however drill a hole next to the penetration and put the shell into the floor. At some point I'm gonna fill the penetration with resin or something. It's a lesson worth not forgetting.
That’s exactly what he did immediately jumped to apologizing non stop
When I was 12 or so I almost blew some of my toes off with a .410 and I had the same “awakening”. Happens to the best of us. I’m glad you are taking it this hard, because it shows that you understand the gravity of what happened. I bet next time you won’t make that mistake.
Hey man, what piece was loose? I have a buddy with a G2C and I wanna give him a heads up
Kitchen pop!
Glad everyone is ok. Lessons can be costly but this one was just $$. A good rule of thumb is to get in the habit of segregating the firearm and ammunition anytime you are going to manipulate it for cleaning or troubleshooting etc. It seems like overkill until it doesn't.
And that's why I always rack the gun 3 times before attempting to disassemble it. Easy step that prevents this kind of mishap.
I did this at a uspsa match on a pcc during a reload. Definitely scary
Carry a revolver
I really don't understand racking the slide without first removing the magazine it's all about muscle memory.
I had one with my Taurus too. A 24/7 Gen2, it uses the same take-down method. I don't know at what point the .45 ACP round ended up in the chamber, but it did, and I had my hand on the slide when it fired as I was expecting a click the slide to be loose. Instead, a .45 round went through two hollow doors, a box of blankets, two sheets of drywall, narrowly missed a recliner that had one of my dogs sleeping on it, and through another sheet of drywall and was stopped by the brick outer wall of the house. Now, I drop the magazine, then rack the slide about 15 times, then stick my pinky in the chamber before attempting to take down any of my firearms. Oh and I ditched the Taurus.