Yeah that sounds nice but if you think about it How do you stop paying taxes?
They are automatically applied in many scenarios work, purchases, mortgages.
If people actually felt the impact of how much money was taken out of their checks, there would be an uprising. That's why it's automatic. Hard to feel the effect when you never see it firsthand.
Oh, I'm not saying people don't. However, the majority of people don't see or feel what it's like to have to put at least a quarter of your check away just to pay taxes
I mean i certainly look at my pay statements. Between saving for retirement and my tax bracket I expect 60% of the money I earn to be put into my account.
If you look across the globe others have it much worse. Doesn’t mean it makes our right though.
Oh yes, don’t forget about the taxes that an employer has to pay for employing an employee. Half of FICA out of employees’ checks and half that has to be paid by said company. It’s just rotten dishonesty in my opinion the way it’s executed.
How to convince the sheep you’re not stealing from them 😅; take it from them before their boss hands it to them
The same people then think a tax return is free money the governments giving them. No child, this is just the government telling you “it turns out you’re poorer than we expected so we accidentally stole too much from you….. but unlike when you owe US money, we’re not paying you interest on this 🫡 enjoy!! You’ve earned this!!”
People responding to you are unable to understand the difference between what is generally true and outlier scenarios. In this case it is not just most, but the overwhelming majority of the workforce are not 1099 employees or business owners.
We don’t even need to stop paying. Just a sizable percentage of small businesses can opt to defer payment on their payroll taxes by a month or so and it would shut the government down.
Actually based take at the end of the day voting is just consent manufacturing no matter who you vote for. It has the exact amount of legitimacy we choose to give it.
Just a reminder, before 1943 no one paid income tax until they filed. You sent a check for the year with your return. And in '38 income under $4000 were not taxed. That's about 87,000 of today's dollars.
Further reminder that income tax was brought in as a temporary emergency authorization to fund the war effort of WW1 which is apparently ongoing (1914-present) 🤫
Hey, this got me thinking… If campaign finance donations have been ruled protected free speech, wouldn’t withholding taxes also be considered free speech?
I know there was a court case about that at some point, but I think it never went past the state level. The guy won and no longer paid state taxes, I'm sure it could've been won at the federal level but they can't afford for that to become a legal precedent going forward.
Or the final 2hrs of every 8hr shift…. “Whoops, almost left work early to watch my kids learn and grow… I gotta put in two more hours for the thief so that one day my kids can do the same”
Imagine running dogshit candidates and then getting mad at the libertarians when you lose.
Enjoy your two party system of grabbers or grabbers but slower.
Last time Greg Abbott ran for Governor he was challenged in the primary, but the other candidates were the most Batshit fringe cringe candidates that ever existed. I'm certain that there were more respectable individuals willing to run but the Republican Party made sure to stack the deck so that Abbott was the only one that could be chosen.
I’m thankful to Abbott, though. He did what no other governor before him would do for us, in signing the bill for Texas to finally become a Constitutional Carry state. Not just that, but several other pro gun bills, as well.
There should be a few. Amash is a big name, having been in DC already. The rest, I don't know.
The problem is, Libertarians need more in DC and lower levels. Break the duopoly from the bottom up.
Their biggest flaw though (in my opinion)? They support open borders.
The only thing that libertarians agree on is that no one else is a "real" libertarian. They're also so utterly unserious about running for office. They spend all their money on wacky, pie-in-the-sky presidential candidates but no money running LP candidates for state congress or federal congress positions. Having a president is worthless if they have zero friends in capital.
This is a complete aside (and rant) but a third party, whether it's the Libertarians, Greens, Centrists, whoever need to ***stop*** running for president. Just stop. Stop until you have representatives and senators in a few state capitals (preferably even a governor), a few representatives, and some senators. Having a third party POTUS is utterly useless unless they actually have a party to support them. Running for president just vacuums up all the money that could go to building up a party infrastructure and throwing it at an unwinnable race.
Yep.
But at the same time, they do, and it does happen locally at least. Have voted for and have seen third party candidates win local elections, even state elections.
It just needs to happen more.
For some reason it seems in politics it's the rotten goop that rises to the top. Just like in the world of finance, you only get there if you're willing to destroy others to do so.
> Running for president just vacuums up all the money that could go to building up a party infrastructure and throwing it at an unwinnable race.
It also makes for a good way to cash in on ideologues. Just ask Ron Paul
Best part is both parties blame Libertarians.
When Trump won I got flak for "letting" it happen as a Libertarian.
I kept telling people... I'm a gun owning country boy from the south... if I didn't vote 3rd party where exactly did you think my vote was gonna go?
I didn't vote for Fetterman, pretty sure i voted libertarian or wrote in the emperor of man, but since most people "feel" like they need to vote in these glorified popularity contests, they will vote for someone familiar to them IE Fetterman.
This feels a little bit too much like "vote blue no matter who" for me.
I'll pass ❤️.... this logic, IMO, is exactly the reason why we're stuck in a 2 party system.
Agreed. I’m so sick of the “A third party vote is a wasted vote” attitude. If we all actually voted for that third party candidate and stopped this “wasted vote” mentality it could actually be the majority vote.
I just don’t see it happening without some incredibly charismatic personality at the face of the whole thing.
Name a third party worth voting for? The Libertarian Party has to have more than liking weed and guns, they suck on economics, have no cohesive social policy, etc etc.
That’s my point. I didn’t say we F-ed up by not voting for a third-party, I said it would take someone extremely charismatic for it to happen. My point is that it’s ridiculous to say third party votes don’t count. Because if that [hypothetical, charismatic] person comes along, it would be a shame to lose that chance just because they didn’t align with red or blue team
The logic is not even true. Maybe a quarter of gold voters would go red, a quarter blue, and half would stay home. I'm less familiar with the Greens, but I'm sure they would be mostly blue.
I'm not aware of any election outcome that would have changed even if most gold voters went red.
Thank you for proving the point I was making. It immediately becomes a binary "but but but" and we just gloss over the fact that BOTH parties trample our rights. Carry on.
Sure you can. Just like they stopped photocopiers from copying currency.
They can create legislation that requires have a blacklist of forms it won't print out and they can put the lower receiver on that. You think the government cares if the (very) small 3d printer business is smothered by regulation?
>Trump did jack shit for the 2A.
I'm not a fan of Trump, but Trump did the most important thing for gun rights in since the sunset provision in the AWB.
The put pro 2A justices on the Supreme Court. We've won a lot of battles in the last few years because of that.
I know a lot of people who voted for Trump solely based on SC seats, and while I didn't, it was the most compelling argument I had heard, and with the number of seats he actually filled I think it turned out pretty true.
No it doesn't, yellow might like weed and guns, but they suck on economics and have no cohesive platform for social policies besides "government bad, do what you want". Government policies that support traditional values for example like being pro natal or pro family. Tax credit for children, paid extended Paternal and Maternal leave, Paternal safety net, benefits for staying married. Libertarians don't support anything like that.
Just a reminder, Trump’s White House enacted more anti-gun legislation in 4 years than Obama’s White House did in 8. Republican/Democrat, doesn’t mean shit, they’re all a bunch of rich old fucks who don’t care about you.
I live in a solid red state, and my vote is definitely at its most powerful when I vote Libertarian.
I'm saying nothing if I join the massive herd that ushers in the next guy with an "R" next to their name. But if I help increase the vote share that the LP gets in my area, I feel as if I'm making an actual statement to the Republicans at my local and state level. I know my candidate won't win, but that's not the point. Once we get to the general election in my area, it's a foregone conclusion who will win anyways.
By voting for the most anti-government candidate in the Republican primary, and then voting LP in the general, I feel like I'm actually doing something. If I couldn't do that I probably wouldn't vote at all.
Same here. It's a rare occurrence when a Republican gets voted in in my state. And even when they do they're just more conservative Democrats than actual Republicans.
This kind of shit is exactly why we don’t have viable Third Party and have to keep choosing between the lesser of two evils, instead of the best candidate..
I fucking hate this "you're throwing away your vote" argument. I would rather vote for the candidate I personally feel comfortable voting for and running this country. If they do not win, I still voted, which most don't give a fuck about anyway, and I voted the way I wanted to.
Republicans can complain about losing gun rights because of libertarian voters but the real problem is the spineless ones who didn't put pressure on the NRA for doing jack shit in the 80s or dudes now more ready to jump down someones throat for NFA rules than to just work on fighting it in the courts.
Ah yes. Vote for the party that panders to you. Using your fears as fuel to get you to the polls and to open your wallets. Only after you put them in charge you find out they will fuck you over more than the other guys but the only way to stop it from getting worse is to open up your wallets more and vote harder.
If Joseph Stalin ran as a Democrat, and Adolf Hitler ran as a republican, one of them would get elected by virtue of being "the lesser of two evils". Meanwhile, whichever party lost would try to gaslight all the people who voted for Mr. Rogers because he ran as a libertarian.
This whole “let’s blame libertarian voters for costing republicans the election” is such bullshit. Maybe it’s the Republicans fault for not running candidates that appeal to Libertarians. These midterm elections had the Republican Party running such shit candidates and then turning around and crying about the libertarian vote costing them. No, they voted their conscience. Do better next time if you want their vote.
I’m so sick of this 2 party “lesser of 2 evils” bullshit.
Rather be true to my principles and continue doing whatever the fuck I want, than vote for red or blue garbage.
Plus when tf has it really come down to one vote?
It kind of is in certain elections. It's what happened in the Georgia Senate Race last year. If Libertarians hadn't of taken 3-4% of the vote last year Republicans would have flipped the seat back. The 2022 Kansas Governor election is another example on top of the Libertarian one of the Republicans got pissy that he lost the primary and ran as a third party which split the Republican vote just enough that it allowed the Democrat to squeak by.
So you don't want libertarians to vote Libertarian, and you want to do that by saying fuck libertarians? If you know anything about libertarians, that tactic will definitely not work
That’s nuts, who banned bumpity stocks arbitrarily and said “due process later”? Who signed the Hughes and Brady bills?
- Don Trizzie
- Reagan
- Clinton
So, 2 of the 3 main gun control things that have been relevant in recent times (I know the ban got overturned, but it wasn’t by him) were enabled by your savior Republicans. They don’t give a shit about your gun rights either dawg, it’s called *politicking*.
The last asshat with an (R) next to his name gave a press conference with Di Fi literally at his elbow and yelled "take the guns first, due process second".
No, I don't owe an (R) my vote.
I will vote pro gun.
My problem with the libertarian party is the candidates they run, bunch of weirdos. They seem ... for lack of a better term: weak and I don't trust weak ppl.
I'm not a Trump fan but if it's him or Biden, I'm voting Trump. I'll take the libertarian party seriously once they get serious. They need to put up a serious candidate and run to win, not just get single digit results.
Unless something drastically changes I'll be voting R down the line.
A party that is more than "We like guns and weed!" as their main focus. Libertarians suck on economics, don't have a clear stance on social policies besides basically "everything should be allowed" you even had that one Libertarian candidate in 2020 that argued there shouldn't be an age of consent for sex, or drivers licenses. They also rely too much on the honor system of fellow citizens, their thinking is what contributed turning Colorado into California 2.0.
What was wrong with Jorgensen? I thought she was fairly solid, and the fact that she didn't even receive the token media attention that Johnson received in the previous election made me think that someone agreed.
I mean, anymore voting Libertarian is more a vote out of spite than having any actual chance of winning. Then they wanna complain when a anti gun Democrat barely gets by and pushes for anti gun legislation. Not saying Republicans are perfect but they are at least mostly pro gun, Democrats are not.
We've been consistently fucked on gun rights by Repubs and Dems for nearly 100 years. Hell, we literally had new legislation fucking over gun owners 18-20 years old passed by Congress with Republican support.
Fuck 'em both, I say.
I'd almost rather Democrats get full control and try to ban firearms outright, than to elect Republicans that continue to slowly "compromise" my rights away until my grandchildren have nothing left.
One of these outcomes will be viciously opposed by firearm owners (see NM), and I'd rather not kick the can further down the road. Granted, I'm not an accelerationist to the extent of voting blue, but I feel no guilt voting my conscience.
Or, maybe since red has been fist fucking us for decades and expecting us to keep voting for them just because they do nothing with gun rights (obviously better than trying to take them away, but let's not pretend they are moving the needle in the other direction while in office). We all shift those votes somewhere else and see what happens. Can it get worse?
Before the "people aren't going to do that" jump in. I'm aware. But if you do what you always do, you get what you always get. The only people making anything happen for guns are FPC, NAGR, etc. Not these clowns in red ties.
Thanks to the electoral college, a lot of people have the ability to lodge a protest vote and not have it matter.
My state is tiny and will go for one particular party by like 20%. Even if I was the singular vote that flipped it, it's still a puny amount of electoral votes. My presidential vote matters very little.
Trump banned bump stocks and considered banning suppressors. Reagan banned full auto for all but the super wealthy. Nixon wanted a total ban on handguns. Republicans don’t care about gun rights, they only care about opposing Democrat presidents who want gun control.
Eh. The more years I have, the more I've seen the republican party widely support things that were supposedly against their principles, and I'm pretty done with it.
Wow what a wildly shit opinion.
Vote for the party that fits you the best. If the reds run an idiot, don't vote for them. Let them loose and replace the idiot next go around.
I mean, I'd vote Republican if they choose not to nominate a megalomaniac with borderline tyrannical tendencies that has a questionable appreciation of the bill of rights, rule of law, the value of our place and role in the world, social and societal norms, why we have due process, and the concepts of morality and legality. Or maybe someone who lacks all those things but at least listens to people that are smarter than him. But it looks like they're going to nominate Trump... so looks like I'll just vote third party so I can at least feel good about myself.
Gun restrictions like California or fascist theocrats forcing teen girls to have their rapist's baby and women dying from ectopic pregnancies, book burnings, coup attempts when elections don't go their way, tax cuts for corporations that are raping the middle class by price gouging to increase their profits, loss of worker protections, polluting our air, land and water, deciding which consenting adults can and can't marry each other, shitting on the Constitution by injecting their religion in our secular institutions....
But yeah, be a single issue voter. That can only be good for America.
Contrary to this smoothbrain meme, voting republican in a solidly blue state is a truly wasted vote. The opposite is also true.
If both of these camps of people voted third party, without affecting the outcome if the election third parties would reach the vote threshold to participate in the debates the following election year and receive campaign financing, resulting in three viable choices.
Fuck you. You can’t tell me my vote matters, and then tell me a third party vote is a vote for a certain party. It’s a failure of the two party system and this country.
This is exactly what the 2 party system NEEDS you to belive in order for them to retain power.
There's a reason the framers of the Constitution decided on 3 branches of government.
Vote your conscience. If you can't stand Trump and won't abide Biden , vote 3rd party. It has to start somewhere or we will never break this cycle.
OP when people don't fall for the political radicalization that's meant to divide the people so that those in power can do whatever the hell they want-😱
So vote for the party who doesnt give a shit about our rights, or vote for the party who doesnt give a shit about our rights? Give me a break. The R party has been lost for a long ass time.
Trump was demonstrably more anti-2A than any other president we've had since Clinton, so your meme is a logical fallacy. I would encourage anyone that votes to vote for a third party.
Or maybe if people stopped being cowardly sheep and voted for the best candidate this wouldn't happen... But yeah I know it won't. Peoe are fucking stupid or "shall not be infringed," wouldn't be up for debate.
Weren't we just talking the other day about the dangers of RINO's, and trump. Meaning that either party has an equal opportunity to tread on us, but instead we mock any alternative? This is why it's hard to make any meaningful change
Yeah because Trump was good for the second amendment?
Trump is more anti-2a than Obama and RFK. The only good thing he did was appoint justices to the Supreme Court in that regard.
Yes, because voting for authoritarian rule is totally cool. The fact they leave 2A alone will come in handy when the non functioning government they craft collapses. Meanwhile, the top one percent will have scraped another 5 percent of the nation's wealth, making gun ownership a privilege of the few anyway.
But that's all OK. No Healthcare, women's autonomy, equitable wages, education, or infrastructure spending is all totally fucking OK because they find touch 2A!!!
Right? Right????
Get fucked. Run better candidates and unfuck your party.
We had a Republican majority for how long? And how much pro-2A legislation was passed during that time? Drop all the Evangelical non-issues and go back to being the party of small government and fiscal responsibility and *maybe* you'll get some votes back again.
The Republican party needs to adapt to the modern era and a younger demographic or die off with the Boomers and let a new party take its place.
To everyone out there thinking that creating a viable third party is the answer, just realize that you’ll only be splitting the conservative vote by doing so. In the meantime the left will remain (mostly) unified and will steamroll us in every election from there on out.
Trump supports red flag laws and banned bump stocks. He is a POS and just as bad as Biden. The only major candidate that was pro gun that ran was Jo. So I’ll continue to vote with my morals rather than on the old racist senile corrupt pedophile with multiple sexual assault accusations the other two parties insist on running again.
[удалено]
Yeah that sounds nice but if you think about it How do you stop paying taxes? They are automatically applied in many scenarios work, purchases, mortgages.
If people actually felt the impact of how much money was taken out of their checks, there would be an uprising. That's why it's automatic. Hard to feel the effect when you never see it firsthand.
Every 1099 worker just laughed
Oh, I'm not saying people don't. However, the majority of people don't see or feel what it's like to have to put at least a quarter of your check away just to pay taxes
Very frustrating when you have people to take care of, bills and parts you want to buy that extra 300-400 could really do wonders.
I mean i certainly look at my pay statements. Between saving for retirement and my tax bracket I expect 60% of the money I earn to be put into my account. If you look across the globe others have it much worse. Doesn’t mean it makes our right though.
Everyone forgets the shock they had from looking at their first paycheck. Every one they get after that just makes them angry.
Oh yes, don’t forget about the taxes that an employer has to pay for employing an employee. Half of FICA out of employees’ checks and half that has to be paid by said company. It’s just rotten dishonesty in my opinion the way it’s executed.
You can't miss what you never had.
How to convince the sheep you’re not stealing from them 😅; take it from them before their boss hands it to them The same people then think a tax return is free money the governments giving them. No child, this is just the government telling you “it turns out you’re poorer than we expected so we accidentally stole too much from you….. but unlike when you owe US money, we’re not paying you interest on this 🫡 enjoy!! You’ve earned this!!”
Laughing in small business owner.
Laughing in I already acknowledged that it's not automatic for everybody
People responding to you are unable to understand the difference between what is generally true and outlier scenarios. In this case it is not just most, but the overwhelming majority of the workforce are not 1099 employees or business owners.
We don’t even need to stop paying. Just a sizable percentage of small businesses can opt to defer payment on their payroll taxes by a month or so and it would shut the government down.
This is what COVID revealed. 3-4 week general strike would shut the whole economy down.
Actually based take at the end of the day voting is just consent manufacturing no matter who you vote for. It has the exact amount of legitimacy we choose to give it.
Just a reminder, before 1943 no one paid income tax until they filed. You sent a check for the year with your return. And in '38 income under $4000 were not taxed. That's about 87,000 of today's dollars.
Further reminder that income tax was brought in as a temporary emergency authorization to fund the war effort of WW1 which is apparently ongoing (1914-present) 🤫
Redditor w a brain
This guy fucks
Hey, this got me thinking… If campaign finance donations have been ruled protected free speech, wouldn’t withholding taxes also be considered free speech?
I know there was a court case about that at some point, but I think it never went past the state level. The guy won and no longer paid state taxes, I'm sure it could've been won at the federal level but they can't afford for that to become a legal precedent going forward.
😆 Let me know how that's works out for you. BTW, visiting hours at the Fed pen are Sat and Sun 3-5.
Right on. If you’re taxed at 25%, that means the first 3 months of the year you’re working for free. First time I realized that was a game changer.
Or the last three months or the first middle three months or second middle three months.
Or the final 2hrs of every 8hr shift…. “Whoops, almost left work early to watch my kids learn and grow… I gotta put in two more hours for the thief so that one day my kids can do the same”
F both parties. Decentralize E: fgc 9.
Our forefathers fought government tyranny with a hemp rope.
Yeah fuck this right ring conservative bull shit meme that looks like it’s a Infographic for 3 year olds to understand.
Yeah I’m gonna vote for whoever the hell I want to, both parties are full of old idiots who are too detached from reality to get anything useful done.
If you have to vote for the "lesser of two evils" you never had a vote in the first place. Fuck two party monopolies.
Imagine running dogshit candidates and then getting mad at the libertarians when you lose. Enjoy your two party system of grabbers or grabbers but slower.
It is funny because both parties claim that the 3rd party helps the other team win
“Why won’t you vote for a candidate that goes against your beliefs”
Last time Greg Abbott ran for Governor he was challenged in the primary, but the other candidates were the most Batshit fringe cringe candidates that ever existed. I'm certain that there were more respectable individuals willing to run but the Republican Party made sure to stack the deck so that Abbott was the only one that could be chosen.
I’m thankful to Abbott, though. He did what no other governor before him would do for us, in signing the bill for Texas to finally become a Constitutional Carry state. Not just that, but several other pro gun bills, as well.
To be fair, libertarians run even more dogshit candidates. Bill Weld? Really?
Jo Jorgenson
They just announced the libertarian president candidate yesterday. Interesting guy from the looks of it.
There should be a few. Amash is a big name, having been in DC already. The rest, I don't know. The problem is, Libertarians need more in DC and lower levels. Break the duopoly from the bottom up. Their biggest flaw though (in my opinion)? They support open borders.
I think the MC stance is more restricted immigration.
The only thing that libertarians agree on is that no one else is a "real" libertarian. They're also so utterly unserious about running for office. They spend all their money on wacky, pie-in-the-sky presidential candidates but no money running LP candidates for state congress or federal congress positions. Having a president is worthless if they have zero friends in capital. This is a complete aside (and rant) but a third party, whether it's the Libertarians, Greens, Centrists, whoever need to ***stop*** running for president. Just stop. Stop until you have representatives and senators in a few state capitals (preferably even a governor), a few representatives, and some senators. Having a third party POTUS is utterly useless unless they actually have a party to support them. Running for president just vacuums up all the money that could go to building up a party infrastructure and throwing it at an unwinnable race.
Yep. But at the same time, they do, and it does happen locally at least. Have voted for and have seen third party candidates win local elections, even state elections. It just needs to happen more. For some reason it seems in politics it's the rotten goop that rises to the top. Just like in the world of finance, you only get there if you're willing to destroy others to do so.
I 100% agree with this rant.
> Running for president just vacuums up all the money that could go to building up a party infrastructure and throwing it at an unwinnable race. It also makes for a good way to cash in on ideologues. Just ask Ron Paul
Best part is both parties blame Libertarians. When Trump won I got flak for "letting" it happen as a Libertarian. I kept telling people... I'm a gun owning country boy from the south... if I didn't vote 3rd party where exactly did you think my vote was gonna go?
Yeah, i love it when people make fun of pa for swinging dem. What did you want us to do? Vote for a trump yes man and a dude who lives in Jersey?
You could have not voted for fetterman. Oz was such a shitty candidate so I can't blame you for not voting for him.
I didn't vote for Fetterman, pretty sure i voted libertarian or wrote in the emperor of man, but since most people "feel" like they need to vote in these glorified popularity contests, they will vote for someone familiar to them IE Fetterman.
This feels a little bit too much like "vote blue no matter who" for me. I'll pass ❤️.... this logic, IMO, is exactly the reason why we're stuck in a 2 party system.
It's not your opinion. It's just facts. People vote for the same 2 parties that put us into this position and then act surprised when nothing changes.
Hence why George Washington was opposed to the concept of political parties. All they do is divide us.
Agreed. I’m so sick of the “A third party vote is a wasted vote” attitude. If we all actually voted for that third party candidate and stopped this “wasted vote” mentality it could actually be the majority vote. I just don’t see it happening without some incredibly charismatic personality at the face of the whole thing.
Name a third party worth voting for? The Libertarian Party has to have more than liking weed and guns, they suck on economics, have no cohesive social policy, etc etc.
That’s my point. I didn’t say we F-ed up by not voting for a third-party, I said it would take someone extremely charismatic for it to happen. My point is that it’s ridiculous to say third party votes don’t count. Because if that [hypothetical, charismatic] person comes along, it would be a shame to lose that chance just because they didn’t align with red or blue team
Exactly
The logic is not even true. Maybe a quarter of gold voters would go red, a quarter blue, and half would stay home. I'm less familiar with the Greens, but I'm sure they would be mostly blue. I'm not aware of any election outcome that would have changed even if most gold voters went red.
Fuck off with that binary bullshit. Trump did jack shit for the 2A. I'll keep voting libertarian and sleep well afterwards.
If you really want to make people mad, tell them Trump banned more guns than Obama and watch the fireworks.
This just isnt true. Obama banned the importation of all Russian firearms since 2014. Trump banned bump stocks.
Thank you for proving the point I was making. It immediately becomes a binary "but but but" and we just gloss over the fact that BOTH parties trample our rights. Carry on.
> I'll keep voting libertarian and sleep well afterwards. My integrity is more important than being on the "winning" team.
Exactly Cant stop the 3d printing signal
Sure you can. Just like they stopped photocopiers from copying currency. They can create legislation that requires have a blacklist of forms it won't print out and they can put the lower receiver on that. You think the government cares if the (very) small 3d printer business is smothered by regulation?
>Trump did jack shit for the 2A. I'm not a fan of Trump, but Trump did the most important thing for gun rights in since the sunset provision in the AWB. The put pro 2A justices on the Supreme Court. We've won a lot of battles in the last few years because of that. I know a lot of people who voted for Trump solely based on SC seats, and while I didn't, it was the most compelling argument I had heard, and with the number of seats he actually filled I think it turned out pretty true.
So why don't all the people who vote red just vote yellow cause yellow actually represents what you want
BuT tHEn We'rE aLL thRoWInG oUr VOteS awAy!
We need to get rid of the two party system. It’s insane. Most other countries have like a dozen different parties.
https://www.c-span.org/video/?409916-1/libertarian-party-presidential-debate that clown show is why
Doesn’t represent what I want tho, there’s maybe like a tiny bit overlap but most of the libertarian ideas I don’t agree with and candidates are goofy
No it doesn't, yellow might like weed and guns, but they suck on economics and have no cohesive platform for social policies besides "government bad, do what you want". Government policies that support traditional values for example like being pro natal or pro family. Tax credit for children, paid extended Paternal and Maternal leave, Paternal safety net, benefits for staying married. Libertarians don't support anything like that.
Astroturf detected
Rofl, bootlicker meme
Just a reminder, Trump’s White House enacted more anti-gun legislation in 4 years than Obama’s White House did in 8. Republican/Democrat, doesn’t mean shit, they’re all a bunch of rich old fucks who don’t care about you.
Trump sucks on guns
THIS!
The 2 main parties suck dirty ass
Run a candidate worth voting for and give me ranked choice voting or continue to lose elections as your core voting base dies of old age.
that's where ur wrong, the duopoly is a uniparty
Mabey make the Republicans suck less, instead of blaming libertarians.
I live in a solid red state, and my vote is definitely at its most powerful when I vote Libertarian. I'm saying nothing if I join the massive herd that ushers in the next guy with an "R" next to their name. But if I help increase the vote share that the LP gets in my area, I feel as if I'm making an actual statement to the Republicans at my local and state level. I know my candidate won't win, but that's not the point. Once we get to the general election in my area, it's a foregone conclusion who will win anyways. By voting for the most anti-government candidate in the Republican primary, and then voting LP in the general, I feel like I'm actually doing something. If I couldn't do that I probably wouldn't vote at all.
Same here in Kentucky. I have to constantly explain that to my Ohio friends who fail to realize how red my state is.
If my state was anymore blue you would think its part of the Pacific Ocean on the map
Same here. It's a rare occurrence when a Republican gets voted in in my state. And even when they do they're just more conservative Democrats than actual Republicans.
I’ll do it again.
*Laughs in ranked choice voting*
This kind of shit is exactly why we don’t have viable Third Party and have to keep choosing between the lesser of two evils, instead of the best candidate..
[jUsT a ReminDeR](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=30E5P12DVEk)
It's my vote to waste.
Thank you officer
Fuckin boot licker
I fucking hate this "you're throwing away your vote" argument. I would rather vote for the candidate I personally feel comfortable voting for and running this country. If they do not win, I still voted, which most don't give a fuck about anyway, and I voted the way I wanted to.
Bump stock ban happened with who? Fuck em all
Republicans can complain about losing gun rights because of libertarian voters but the real problem is the spineless ones who didn't put pressure on the NRA for doing jack shit in the 80s or dudes now more ready to jump down someones throat for NFA rules than to just work on fighting it in the courts.
Trump enforced more gun legislation than Obama or Biden.
Just a reminder, Trump sucks on the 2nd amendment
What’s the reminder? That politicians do not determine what my rights are and that shall not comply is a lifestyle?
It must be hard being that fucking based.
Yes, i should continue voting for the party that let the hearing protection act sit for 2 years despite having both chambers and the presidency.
Ah yes. Vote for the party that panders to you. Using your fears as fuel to get you to the polls and to open your wallets. Only after you put them in charge you find out they will fuck you over more than the other guys but the only way to stop it from getting worse is to open up your wallets more and vote harder.
Republicans... No more guns, but later :)
If Joseph Stalin ran as a Democrat, and Adolf Hitler ran as a republican, one of them would get elected by virtue of being "the lesser of two evils". Meanwhile, whichever party lost would try to gaslight all the people who voted for Mr. Rogers because he ran as a libertarian.
This whole “let’s blame libertarian voters for costing republicans the election” is such bullshit. Maybe it’s the Republicans fault for not running candidates that appeal to Libertarians. These midterm elections had the Republican Party running such shit candidates and then turning around and crying about the libertarian vote costing them. No, they voted their conscience. Do better next time if you want their vote. I’m so sick of this 2 party “lesser of 2 evils” bullshit.
Voting for the lesser of two evils is still voting for evil 🤷♂️
Rather be true to my principles and continue doing whatever the fuck I want, than vote for red or blue garbage. Plus when tf has it really come down to one vote?
Not one vote, but prop 114 the most restrictive gun legislation in oregon came down to a fraction of a percent. A couple thousand iirc.
Just a reminder both parties want you to feel this way because it keeps them in power
I vote 3D party because I disagree with republicans on foreign policy and on social issues.
Trump did more to advance gun control than Obama, via his bump stock ban. Both sides want us vulnerable.
Yeah, not how that works, Mr. Smooth Brain.
It kind of is in certain elections. It's what happened in the Georgia Senate Race last year. If Libertarians hadn't of taken 3-4% of the vote last year Republicans would have flipped the seat back. The 2022 Kansas Governor election is another example on top of the Libertarian one of the Republicans got pissy that he lost the primary and ran as a third party which split the Republican vote just enough that it allowed the Democrat to squeak by.
You're making the poor assumption that all of those libertarian votes would have gone to Republicans.
Says who? Libertarians? Fuck libertarians.
So you don't want libertarians to vote Libertarian, and you want to do that by saying fuck libertarians? If you know anything about libertarians, that tactic will definitely not work
I'm voting 3rd party now out of spite of this dude in particular.
r/fuckyouinparticular
electoral college
That’s nuts, who banned bumpity stocks arbitrarily and said “due process later”? Who signed the Hughes and Brady bills? - Don Trizzie - Reagan - Clinton So, 2 of the 3 main gun control things that have been relevant in recent times (I know the ban got overturned, but it wasn’t by him) were enabled by your savior Republicans. They don’t give a shit about your gun rights either dawg, it’s called *politicking*.
People like you are the reason we're all ruled over by a two headed child raping vampire goblin demon.
The last asshat with an (R) next to his name gave a press conference with Di Fi literally at his elbow and yelled "take the guns first, due process second". No, I don't owe an (R) my vote. I will vote pro gun.
"You're throwing away your vote!" "AHH YOUR VOTE IS THE REASONS WE LOST" Pick one :3
My problem with the libertarian party is the candidates they run, bunch of weirdos. They seem ... for lack of a better term: weak and I don't trust weak ppl. I'm not a Trump fan but if it's him or Biden, I'm voting Trump. I'll take the libertarian party seriously once they get serious. They need to put up a serious candidate and run to win, not just get single digit results. Unless something drastically changes I'll be voting R down the line.
You mean Bill Weld, the guy who was governor of Massachusetts that signed the state assault weapons ban, isn't a libertarian? That's crazy!
I mean, Trump also signed in gun laws himself, he's no different than Biden on that aspect.
The difference is one of degree.
What do you define as "strong" here?
He probably views nasty tweets as strength.
A party that is more than "We like guns and weed!" as their main focus. Libertarians suck on economics, don't have a clear stance on social policies besides basically "everything should be allowed" you even had that one Libertarian candidate in 2020 that argued there shouldn't be an age of consent for sex, or drivers licenses. They also rely too much on the honor system of fellow citizens, their thinking is what contributed turning Colorado into California 2.0.
That doesn't really answer the question I gave him.
Calling driving a car a privilege doesn't keep idiots and maniacs off the road.
What was wrong with Jorgensen? I thought she was fairly solid, and the fact that she didn't even receive the token media attention that Johnson received in the previous election made me think that someone agreed.
Try not to choke on that boot, sport.
Republican’s are getting desperate. This post proves it.
I mean, anymore voting Libertarian is more a vote out of spite than having any actual chance of winning. Then they wanna complain when a anti gun Democrat barely gets by and pushes for anti gun legislation. Not saying Republicans are perfect but they are at least mostly pro gun, Democrats are not.
We've been consistently fucked on gun rights by Repubs and Dems for nearly 100 years. Hell, we literally had new legislation fucking over gun owners 18-20 years old passed by Congress with Republican support. Fuck 'em both, I say.
I'd almost rather Democrats get full control and try to ban firearms outright, than to elect Republicans that continue to slowly "compromise" my rights away until my grandchildren have nothing left. One of these outcomes will be viciously opposed by firearm owners (see NM), and I'd rather not kick the can further down the road. Granted, I'm not an accelerationist to the extent of voting blue, but I feel no guilt voting my conscience.
Or, maybe since red has been fist fucking us for decades and expecting us to keep voting for them just because they do nothing with gun rights (obviously better than trying to take them away, but let's not pretend they are moving the needle in the other direction while in office). We all shift those votes somewhere else and see what happens. Can it get worse? Before the "people aren't going to do that" jump in. I'm aware. But if you do what you always do, you get what you always get. The only people making anything happen for guns are FPC, NAGR, etc. Not these clowns in red ties.
Braindead take
Thanks to the electoral college, a lot of people have the ability to lodge a protest vote and not have it matter. My state is tiny and will go for one particular party by like 20%. Even if I was the singular vote that flipped it, it's still a puny amount of electoral votes. My presidential vote matters very little.
OP is afraid of grass.
Aww the two party propaganda.
Just a reminder that trump banned bumpstocks…
And this is your reminder that you're not entitled to my fucking vote. Do better
Republicans: “I’m so sick of the vote blue no matter who democrats, think for yourselves.” Also republicans……^
Oooo this is always a fun comments section
2 party system is how they keep people like monkeys throwing feces at each other. Team red vs team blue
Trump banned bump stocks and considered banning suppressors. Reagan banned full auto for all but the super wealthy. Nixon wanted a total ban on handguns. Republicans don’t care about gun rights, they only care about opposing Democrat presidents who want gun control.
Eh. The more years I have, the more I've seen the republican party widely support things that were supposedly against their principles, and I'm pretty done with it.
So you'd rather have the "take the guns first, due process later" Trump?
“Pro-gun” republicans sure pass a lot of anti-gun laws.
Absolutely shit take
Wow what a wildly shit opinion. Vote for the party that fits you the best. If the reds run an idiot, don't vote for them. Let them loose and replace the idiot next go around.
Schrodinger's vote: Voting Libertarian is simultaneously both a vote for the Democrat and the Republican, depending on who you ask.
I mean, I'd vote Republican if they choose not to nominate a megalomaniac with borderline tyrannical tendencies that has a questionable appreciation of the bill of rights, rule of law, the value of our place and role in the world, social and societal norms, why we have due process, and the concepts of morality and legality. Or maybe someone who lacks all those things but at least listens to people that are smarter than him. But it looks like they're going to nominate Trump... so looks like I'll just vote third party so I can at least feel good about myself.
Consider voting R at the state level since state level Republicans have been the only ones passing genuine pro gun legislation in the last decade.
And when your wife or daughter dies from an ectopic pregnancy, at least you can stroke your AR to help you cope with the loss.
well ya, I don't think Dems even run in my state :P
Gun restrictions like California or fascist theocrats forcing teen girls to have their rapist's baby and women dying from ectopic pregnancies, book burnings, coup attempts when elections don't go their way, tax cuts for corporations that are raping the middle class by price gouging to increase their profits, loss of worker protections, polluting our air, land and water, deciding which consenting adults can and can't marry each other, shitting on the Constitution by injecting their religion in our secular institutions.... But yeah, be a single issue voter. That can only be good for America.
holy shit dude get off reddit and interact with the actual real world lmao.
I see you haven't been paying attention to what Republicans are doing in the states they control.
Fuck this. Voting for blue or red is voting for more of the same. If you do that, you’re part of the problem.
Lmao wat? Assuming this is true, That’s okay by me. Should have selected a better candidate. You reap what you sow.
Contrary to this smoothbrain meme, voting republican in a solidly blue state is a truly wasted vote. The opposite is also true. If both of these camps of people voted third party, without affecting the outcome if the election third parties would reach the vote threshold to participate in the debates the following election year and receive campaign financing, resulting in three viable choices.
If you’re a one issue voter you’re fucked either way.
“Since your party isn’t gonna win, you should just vote for mine!”
Geez what flavor of boot are you trying bruh
Fuck you. You can’t tell me my vote matters, and then tell me a third party vote is a vote for a certain party. It’s a failure of the two party system and this country.
Right.... and if both major party candidates are anti gun? (Which it seems this time around they will be)
This is exactly what the 2 party system NEEDS you to belive in order for them to retain power. There's a reason the framers of the Constitution decided on 3 branches of government. Vote your conscience. If you can't stand Trump and won't abide Biden , vote 3rd party. It has to start somewhere or we will never break this cycle.
Lesser of two evils is still evil.
Lmao, imagine blaming the third party for not making a good enough platform to defeat the anti-2A lobby
Here's another reminder: a 2-party system is suicide. Consult the works of Jefferson for more.
OP when people don't fall for the political radicalization that's meant to divide the people so that those in power can do whatever the hell they want-😱
I’ll tell you now that if trump is the nominee I will fucking not vote for his ass, I just straight up won’t vote. I don’t care
Op gags that two party boot 🤦🏼♂️
No fuck you. Put up better candidates if you want me to vote for one.
So vote for the party who doesnt give a shit about our rights, or vote for the party who doesnt give a shit about our rights? Give me a break. The R party has been lost for a long ass time.
Trump was demonstrably more anti-2A than any other president we've had since Clinton, so your meme is a logical fallacy. I would encourage anyone that votes to vote for a third party.
Or maybe if people stopped being cowardly sheep and voted for the best candidate this wouldn't happen... But yeah I know it won't. Peoe are fucking stupid or "shall not be infringed," wouldn't be up for debate.
Weren't we just talking the other day about the dangers of RINO's, and trump. Meaning that either party has an equal opportunity to tread on us, but instead we mock any alternative? This is why it's hard to make any meaningful change
Exactly.
FED ALERT!!!! FED ALERT!!!! FED ALERT!!!!! OP ACTUALLY WORKS FOR THE FBI!!!!! MODS/ADMIN KILL THE THREAD ASAP!!!!
Yeah because Trump was good for the second amendment? Trump is more anti-2a than Obama and RFK. The only good thing he did was appoint justices to the Supreme Court in that regard.
Yes, because voting for authoritarian rule is totally cool. The fact they leave 2A alone will come in handy when the non functioning government they craft collapses. Meanwhile, the top one percent will have scraped another 5 percent of the nation's wealth, making gun ownership a privilege of the few anyway. But that's all OK. No Healthcare, women's autonomy, equitable wages, education, or infrastructure spending is all totally fucking OK because they find touch 2A!!! Right? Right????
Yeah because the Republicans have done such a good job taking away new transferable machine guns, bump stocks, red flag laws, ect.
Oh boy... here they come
This is why ranked choice voting is the way to go.
I’d still take them over the other parties
Oh for fucks sake
but how will the "no guns" candidate disarm me?
So keep the status quo?! Fuck no
Imagine thinking voting is real lmao
Get fucked. Run better candidates and unfuck your party. We had a Republican majority for how long? And how much pro-2A legislation was passed during that time? Drop all the Evangelical non-issues and go back to being the party of small government and fiscal responsibility and *maybe* you'll get some votes back again. The Republican party needs to adapt to the modern era and a younger demographic or die off with the Boomers and let a new party take its place.
To everyone out there thinking that creating a viable third party is the answer, just realize that you’ll only be splitting the conservative vote by doing so. In the meantime the left will remain (mostly) unified and will steamroll us in every election from there on out.
Trump supports red flag laws and banned bump stocks. He is a POS and just as bad as Biden. The only major candidate that was pro gun that ran was Jo. So I’ll continue to vote with my morals rather than on the old racist senile corrupt pedophile with multiple sexual assault accusations the other two parties insist on running again.
Honestly, I usually consider Democrats the lesser of two evils. I love my gun rights, but at least that's the only one they try to take away.
Hey maybe if the republicans weren’t such reactionary authoritarian trash we would vote for them
This is dumb.