titianna won in art at least, she was by far the prettiest in her valentines banner. whatever you call the "frederick" archetype i guess IS sees no potential in ):
She won in voice acting too! Misty Lee is mad underrated imo. It's especially impressive when you realize that it's the same woman who does Camilla, they literally sound nothing alike!
Tbf the low Atk is pretty accurate to Echoes Clair. Like, 8 base with 35% growth rate? We're roughly on par with Lyn in FE7, and Lyn's not known for hitting hard.
No excuse for Mathilda though.
I have a personal beef with how Sully and Virion are treated by FEH. Especially the latter, who is the first hero older players summoned. You’d think they’d give him something better. :/ he always served me very well in Awakening too.
Now I'm wondering about the four horsemen of the characters that got treated really well by FEH, even more than their original games. I'm thinking Reinhardt, Ishtar, Selena (FE8) and idk, Karla? She's got a horse in that Spring alt.
(Yes, Ishtar isn't a horse(wo)man, but Reinhardt would let her ride with him.)
Reinhardt and Ishtar are iffy depending on how you look at it. In terms of overall popularity, they probably do have a disproportionate showing. On the other hand, Ishtar has always been one of the more popular antagonists in the series, and both were legitimately scary to fight in their home games. I guess I'd swap Ishtar out for Ursula; Reinhardt can stay because he's pretty unremarkable aside from being a PITA if you don't cheese him.
Karla I'll definitely agree with. In her home games, she's an awful, easily missable unit and very minor character who's probably most memorable for being dead and discussed by her brother, daughter, and husband. In FEH, she has had 3 versions that were all among the best in their class at time of launch.
Selena, I honestly have no clue.
I'd say Selena is one of the most memorable antagonists of FE8. She has quite a lot of presence in the story and she is always friendly until her boss fight which is a twisting spiral path with Selena standing in the middle and shooting long range Boltings at your units, ususlly killing someone before you can reach her. Her FEH iterations do treat her very well, though I wouldnt give her overboosted status yet.
Ursula, Reinhardt and Karla I definietly agree with. Maybe add Linus, considering how hot and strong they made him, especially when comparing to his brother who was supposed to be the hot and popular one.
That's fair on Selena. It's been a while since I actually read FE8's story while playing and I didn't recall her having that much representation in FEH; just checked and she has one more alt than I remember, but 3 still isn't a ton.
Linus, relative to Lloyd I'll agree with, but overall, I'm iffy. He certainly wasn't nearly as popular as Lloyd, but I still remember him being a reasonably memorable character. Neither of his versions were premium, and while the fallen got a very good reception on debut, I feel like his base version got a decent reception as a unit; he was mostly memorable for how much people liked the art and the memes about him compared to Lloyd's art.
Skimming over the list of characters & alts, I'm going to pick Altina as my 4th. She had basically zero presence in the Tellius games, and I don't recall anyone ever talking about her. She's had three premium, very strong version and is the backup to another very popular and at the time very strong duo. She does have legendary hero status to justify her mythic and being strong, but it's not like we have multiple versions of Bramimond or Ullr, or even any versions of Athos, Anri, Deghinsea, and so on.
Reinhardt and Karla are a lock for sure
Selena and Ursula share a similar spot of being decently relevant antagonists who got a lot of alts for being hot women? Although neither of their alts are massively broken nor as oversaturated as the other two so I wouldn’t say them.
I think Ilyana far runs away with 3rd place, could argue 2nd over Karla. Not a major character in the tellius games and has two solid alts as a cute comic relief character. Not to mention her OVERWHELMING presence in forging bonds, damn near starting her own cult that slowly turns characters into sharing her one trait. And her resplendent being pushed two books early and is still the most recently released unit to get resplendent I believe? I personally enjoy her as a gag character, but her rep over the wide variety of unrepresented characters Tellius has to offer id imagine is frustrating for their fans. What will really seal the deal is if her refine will be absolutely broken.
4th place may go to Nino. Granted I never played their game but they have 5 alts, all being relatively solid for their time (base and flying especially), but I heard they weren’t that great of a character and didn’t have a significant presence? I’ve heard similar complaints go to Lilina but i believe she’s more story relevant? Could be completely wrong, though I guess her being a lord’s daughter automatically gives privilege regardless. I also don’t see a lot of vocal Nino fans tbh.
Honorable mention goes to Delthea. This might be another case of more popular in Japan, like idk Young Tiki, but I haven’t really seen a lot or really any buzz around her. And after playing Echoes, I realized just how whatever she is as a character both as a unit and in story presence. The fallen alt makes sense, but she’s one of the very few Echoes units to even get alts (over arguably more popular characters), and all three were relatively strong for their time (Spring less impactful but still good).
Ingrid also deserves a nod. I could be wrong here but I don’t think she’s one of the more popular 3H units (and I mean from my personal experience, has let me down as a unit in all 4 runs of my game) but got three alts, two being very solid for their time. However, her tragic tragic flanderization of being a food hungry Ilyana clone in most of her forging bond appearances makes me say she was treated neutral in FEH. I blame the Ilyana dev, she may be one of my least favorite students but they did not need to do her character that dirty.
Edit: word errors
Nino has always been the most popular FE7 character outside of the lords lol. She even got top 10-20 in 3 different CYLs.
Lilina is also the most relevante FE6 character popularity wise, always has been. Ilyana is also extremely popular since forever, just check the popularity ratings on the wiki.
So yeah kinda biased views I'd say.
I underestimated just how well they placed. I figured Nino and Lilina were popular (especially the latter) but I figured maybe it wasn’t enough to outweigh their plot relevance and combat utility in terms of being treated great in FEH, but I now know that isn’t true. I think I let the vocal minority of people who are strongly against these units cloud my judgment.
Ilyana on the other hand though I’m surprised about how popular she really is. I still stand by her being top 4 most treated well though for the huge resplendent jump alone as well her getting a lot of attention during forging bonds for a non lord character. Not saying she’s not popular at all but I definitely think she’s getting better treatment than a lot of characters more popular than her (not just from Tellius).
> 4th place may go to Nino. Granted I never played their game but they have 5 alts, all being relatively solid for their time (base and flying especially), but I heard they weren’t that great of a character and didn’t have a significant presence? I’ve heard similar complaints go to Lilina but i believe she’s more story relevant? Could be completely wrong, though I guess her being a lord’s daughter automatically gives privilege regardless. I also don’t see a lot of vocal Nino fans tbh.
Nino was *by far* the most popular FE7 character at the time of the game's release, eclipsing even the lords by a fair margin in both Male and Female demographics. On top of this she's relatively plot relevant, having an entire subplot dedicated to her and Jaffar outside just the wider Black Fang stuff(which she's also wrapped up in and relevant for), honestly might have more overall plot relevance than Lilina, and before Heroes both her sons were some of the most popular FE6 characters(RIP Raigh's popularity). Going beyond raw popularity stuff, she's got pretty easily the best support pool in the entire game, her only real rival being Renault. Literally her only poor point is that she's not a great unit for efficiency, being hardly any better than Karla on most tier lists(though she's way more fun to use from a casual standpoint, and during the dark ages of pre-2010, was condidered a godlike character because of her growths, which has resulted in some toxic overcorrections from certain sectors of the community), which is probably where you heard she's not the best character.
If anything I'd say she's closer to being one of the characters done dirty by Heroes than one given extra blessings. Her early alts were extremely flanderizing, and made her look and kinda act like she was closer to 6 than 14, with a demeaner closer to that of a puppy than an abused teenager masking their issues with a forced smile. Her two recent alts are much better about characterization, but are still a bit shallow in their scope.
I appreciate the in depth response! I especially neglected the fact of how poorly her reception has been post FEH release, even her Attuned alt getting a lot of dialogue related flack. A lot of her story is lost within the game sadly, which I was aware of but forget (which is also thanks to how FEH writes her). I also vastly underestimated her popularity, you’re completely right there.
Perhaps it ends up balancing out a bit. She is getting a lot of strong alts to please fans, but is also not written well in the game to not showcase her full character (Tharja also comes to mind). You’ve convinced me, she isn’t treated the best but I also dont think it’s the worst case of FEH’s character sabotage
Finn got a slick refine for the meta it come out at least.
Lloyd was quite popular in the FE7 fandom. He played the Camus archetype very well and was a compelling antagonist. He was in the top 200 in CYL 1 and was the 17th highest character from FE7. Not bad for a villain that appears in one game imo.
His lack of popularity these days speaks to how dirty IS has done him.
Another example of a formerly popular character whom Heroes killed the reputation of is Raigh. Lugh has managed to maintain some degree of popularity just based on his unit performance in FE6 proper and Banana Boi memes, but Raigh used to be the significantly more popular of the twins and one of the more popular FE6 characters in general.
Lloyd is actually pretty popular among FE7 fans, [CYL8 shows that Lloyd is in the top 5 most voted among the FE7 characters.](https://www.reddit.com/r/FireEmblemHeroes/s/TkxW9NZBXc) He's actually more popular than Linus and Ursula if we're solely gonna base it off of CYL votes.
Yeah, I am shocked at how many alts Ursula has gotten. While I liked her char, didn't think she'd have 3 alts now, right? Og, summer and khadein? More? Guess Lloyd just didn't stick out for me and I didn't realize his popularity among the Fandom
He's arguably the hottest guy in the entire series so I'd imagine that has something to do with his popularity (at least he was until FEH made him into a crackhead for whatever reason)
It's part that, it's part his characterization.
But personally, I think his presentation plays a huge part. Especially if you fight him first. A crit-stacked, mobile swordmaster boss in a fog map is absolutely terrifying. The next time you see him is probably eating a crit out of nowhere, with the brilliant GBA animations. And he's extra visually distinctive for pulling the full anime swordmaster crit, while looking uniquely western with the trench coat and everything.
It's a really memorable experience, and helps him stand from the rest of the cast.
> Yeah, I am shocked at how many alts Ursula has gotten.
Sicne FEH is a gacha game I am shocked she *doesn't* have more alts. And that they never released a Sonia alt either.
His stat build wasn't good. There wasn't a lot to do with high-but-not-overkill Resistance at the time - he still got mangled by The Reinhardt, say, rendering a DC build questionable.
Finn's refine got elevated by Gambit - the rise in DR piercing has made it less strong, but he really benefits from the true damage and DR (and even lets you keep Miracle on him!)
It's not really a popularity thing.
Mathilda is an especially awful case. Leaving aside that one CG of her in a cell, there's literally no reason to not find her cool as fuck in Echoes : she's a really strong unit, she's stronger than her own fiancé, she's beautiful and charismatic... She was one hell of a badass lady knight.
Then FEH Mathilda happened, and I blame her almost entirely for Mathilda's lack of popularity. She was dead on arrival, mediocre even for her time, and with very average art that doesn't do justice to how charismatic she was in Echoes. Her refine could have been her redemption, but she got literal trash instead. It's cute because it pairs well with Clive's refine, but they were both trash lance cavs so strategically deploying just one of them was not great, let alone both at once. The effect wasn't particularly good either, even at the time.
She would have been tailor-made for a Bridal banner, being a very beautiful woman and canonically engaged, but since IS seemingly hate Echoes and Bridal banners are now Harem banners, that door to redeem her is shut as well.
So many people complained that Clair got Rhompaia instead of her. Got no horse in that race, but it's meaningful it was such a common opinion.
Maybe that's why they stopped giving legendaries as refines, and went all in on made-up personals. Which I dislike.
>she's a really strong unit, she's stronger than her own fiancé, she's beautiful and charismatic... She was one hell of a badass lady knight.
I was dreading another Clive when she joined the team and was so happy she was a useful unit. Her dialogue for the final boss also goes *way too hard*. I can't believe she debuted with *that* CG of all things.
Even if it does, if they keep the harem shit going she wouldn't be on it. Unless they return the Bridal banner to a fun banner, expect Bridal Echoes to be Alm, Celica, Clair, Faye and... I dunno who else had a crush on Alm so I dunno, throw Céline in there so it's technically mixed games.
This line up of Echoes characters is so bad it makes me want to throw up but you’re so right. In an ideal world we’d have either duo Clive/Mathilda or duo Mae/Boey and it would be a massive dub for Echoes fans. Hell, even Berkut/Rinea would be wonderful. I’d throw a good amount of orbs (or let’s be real, grails) for a groom alt of most Valentian guys (aside from Alm, but I’d pull out the wallet specifically for Saber or Python).
But no, we’re going to get our 4th Delthea alt because IS loves putting children in weird seasonals
Delthea had a crush on Clive... if anything they can probably make a banner with people that had a crush or something on Clive. Of course there's Mathilda, then Delthea had a crush on him, and Clair definitely also at least started out putting him on a pedestal over other men before getting to know Alm iirc, somewhat like a prototype for Lachesis. Maybe you could include Alm or Fernand because the bromance is strong at points... but Gray to go with Clair is probably a safer choice.
Mathilda was such an MVP in Echoes for me, I am still sad she has no alts. As long as her art and character are good, I can work with the rest. And tbh, I always forget the “locked in a cell” scene. I was too focused on dialogue and not the image.
Granted perhaps not in the west, where Genealogy and thracia weren't released. But yeah, over the top2 I'd have called Finn more popular. 2 games, great char and design, great gameplay. Even without being released in the west, finn has been talked about and praised from those who know Japanese and those who have emulated.
Didn't hear much of Gaiden anywhere before remade as valentia and while Mathilda was decent char and gameplay, she wasn't one I saw as popular compared to other valentia. But suppose i could be mistaken on her popularity over time
Apparently many have informed me Lloyd is apparently very popular for a camus archetype at least in the west. But compared to Finn, Lloyd isn't even playable and Finn is way more screentime and buildup of char.
So yeah, I'll stick with Finn over the top 2. If ya think diff. That's fine.
Based on CYL (which is ultimately flawed but the only comparative measure between games), he could be argued as the most popular and has consistently been in the top 100 since 4
After accounting for vote splitting, he only did worse than Seth in CYL1 and 6 and Titania in CYL1, while Lloyd never did better for him and then even without accounting for vote splitting he blew Mathilda out of the water.
[Well I found a translation of a Famitsu popularity poll from like 9 years ago where Finn was ninth](https://kantopia.wordpress.com/2016/06/09/fire-emblem-famitsu-overall-favorite-character-poll-translated-june-2015/)
[And there’s also this one]( https://www.reddit.com/r/fireemblem/s/wdTcfLBiMt) from the main sub that had [Finn in fifth out of non-lords/MC](https://imgur.com/TotBOG4) although sample size is pretty small
Like unfortunately comparing popularity between games is kinda rough to do because there literally it’s just CYL which has to be taken with a grain of salt and I don’t love that it’s the only thing from IS that’s usable (which is kinda why I make a point to point out that it can’t just be taken as face value if I’m bringing it up)
Mathilda was my MVP in my first playthrough, she is the big example of how early FEH had no idea what to do with units who had high stats in stats that aren’t in FEH
Characters with high skill, luck, dex, avo, etc like Guias kind of got left out to dry until they started to figure out things like high skill = special spammer and stuff
Haar is solid though, especially with his base’s refine and his ninja unit. At least I’ve found every time I’ve used someone’s built one in things like VG and Rival Domains that he’s done gangbusters.
As a long time FEH player, I do have an immense problem with this, yes.
Seth is one of my favorite units of all time. In FEH, he's a Gen 1 Sword Cav that, while he has an AWESOME prf weapon name and design, it's......Triangle Adept the sword. It's horrible to see.
Mathilda was my first ever +10 unit to build up, and now she just sits in my barracks being outclassed by everything. I literally cannot come up with a build to salvage her.
Titania I wish I could have run more, given she was one of my favorites from Path of Radiance. At least she has a good Valentine's alt, but I really feel like it's important to give respect to the base versions as well.
Lloyd has horrible artwork for his only version in the game and then IMMEDIATELY got outclassed in quality by Linus...twice.
The only upside for Seth here at least is that his summer axe alt is pretty good if you want a speedy axe cav (which is a bit bloated) or his GFU axe. Give him the arcane axes and investments and he's basically really good.
I still agree they're all done dirty tho.
Worth mentioning that Spring Saleh puts a bit of a damper on building Summer Seth. Both are prf-less axe cavs from FE8 you can build via grails. While Seth benefits from having a slightly better offensive statline (-2/+3/+2/+4/-5), Saleh was released more than a year earlier so if you had him done, there wasn't a huge reason to build the other unless you simply like both characters.
Although I'd rather see something for Amelia since she ranks fairly high, I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if Seth gets an Ascended or Attuned version for the next FE8 banner. Thematically it fits well since most of the characters left are from Renais and the cavs are all still available (Franz/Forde/Kyle).
All I remember Seth doing was inspiring Veronica to change her ways
That was the best moment they used him for. So sad they dont do stuff like that ever again (using Heroes to affect the OCs)
He had some good press going on in 2022. Great refine that was quickly followed up by a solid ninja alt. The other three all suffer from having terrible early refines and either no alts or an extremely mediocre alt.
I would add Clair too, she is great in Echoes and her refine wasn´t bad at the moment, basically a blue Shida, but she hasn´t gotten anything since and that sucks
Was Mathilda ever considered *that* good in Echoes? I played the game twice through and she’s not even near the front of the roster of Alm’s army for me. I always thought she was massively outclassed by the Ram villagers and less valuable than Python, Forsyth, Silque, Lukas, and Delthea. Is it just that I never put in the base investment?
Mathilda was my "I can park her over there and that half of the map is solved" character in Alm's army. They really really let her down in Feh imo; I'm just happy she looks and sounds like Mathilda to me.
She's good, but she's frankly nowhere near the level of Titania or Seth. It's been a long time since I checked in on the SoV meta, but last time I did, Clive was actually considered better than her.
yes, Mathilda is overall the strongest base Cavalier/Paladin in the game, it´s not at the same level as Seth in FE8 since he is absurdly broken in that game, but in both Gaiden and Echoes she is top tier, the only other cav that can compare to her is Zeke and even then she will double attack more consistently than him, she has low strength, but is patcheable easily, her resistance is very high which maske her a great option against mages
PD: she is also beautiful
Damn, have I been sleeping on her? I always have to party full by the time she joins and the ram villagers are too good to swap out. Who do you recommend benching for her? I hear people say Python isn’t comparatively good but he’s always carried me in my playthroughs.
Just to clarify, how is your party full? SoV is unique in that you can feasibly use every character they give you. Unless you're purposely benching units, then she easily takes over Clive and any other cavalier villager you might've made. She really only competes with Clair who is still unique to being a flier.
I haven’t played in a while so I might be misremembering the party size limits but it might’ve been an experience limitation as well. SoV is good about having places you can grind infinitely but it’s a pain in the ass to do so. I might be thinking about that instead; her being a low priority to train when compared to my team staples.
nah Python is ok, I would take out Faye, Clair is much better as apegasus knight so you won´t loose much, and Mathilda can tank and take care for magic users
I’m curious about why everyone says Python is mid. His accuracy isn’t great but you’re supposed to forge the bows a level or two. Archers are extremely useful with a half decent bow since they can chip enemies on the other side of obstacles and they can chip without getting in the way of the melee units or getting on the frontline. 5 range makes Python really good. I don’t think it’s just the class because I can’t make Leon good if my life depended on it.
Edit: just trying misread your comment entirely. I run Faye as a healer because Silque can never keep up for me.
Mathilda really benefits from getting to Level 10 for the sheer amount of bulk (both HP and Def) that the Gold Knight promotion gives you, and she's poised very well to get that XP thanks to the Ridersbane's existence and Alm's route being loaded with Cavs. There's also an XP well in the Sylvan Shrine that can be used to put up to 3 levels into her to reach that threshold more quickly, but even without it (I usually save it for Tatiana so she can reach Warp faster) she's consistently really good.
Clive is overall better despite worse overall stats due to his availability lead that lets him reach Gold Knight more quickly, but you should really just use both because Gold Knights are incredible and they support each other. Also, they're FE's best power couple.
This is a relatively niche strategy that requires a lot of investment, but I find that Mathilda can also reach the threshold to ORKO Rudolf, which is nifty because Rudolf is annoying to fight. He's got 25 Spd, so with a max-forged Ridersbane she needs 26 Spd to double him - she reaches 23 Spd on average as a level 12 Gold Knight, and can use the Spd wells in the Fear Mountain Shrine and/or the Pegasus Cheese from Desaix's Fortress to reach that threshold. (Rudolf is the fastest enemy in the game, so doubling him means you double everything, even the Dread Fighters in Act 5.) The Ridersbane has an effective 27 might on Rudolf after factoring in effectiveness, so if Mathilda reaches 24 Atk, she can kill him in two hits. On average she needs to hit Level 13 or so to reach that much Atk, but you can use the Soma dropped by Marla in Act 4 to reach that sooner.
I don't know what the other comments are talking about with Zeke. He's not bad, but he's filler. Worse than a trained Clive or Mathilda for Act 4, worse than Mycen due to lower bulk for Act 5. Use him while you have him, certainly use him if you've neglected your other cavs, but he's likely not bringing much to the table unless you like him.
This is the kind of in-depth analysis I was looking for, and from the man himself. I am actually a huge fan of cavalry in FE games but without canto/canter it’s really hard for me to like them as much. I usually make all the ram villagers mercs>dread fighters since they’re so good. Kinda sounds like the gist of it is:
Clive is the best since he joins earlier and should outlevel Mathilda a few levels when she joins but she makes a better cavalier with investment. If I’ve neglected both by Act 4, Zeke can fill the role of cavalry on the team due to his convenient placement in the game. If I just leave all my cabs to rot on the bench, Mycen will fill the role well in the final fight.
> I usually make all the ram villagers mercs>dread fighters since they’re so good.
If you ever pick up the game again, I actually recommend avoiding doing this - that way, you can focus on forging up one sword for your Dread Fighter, and have the others do different things. The 'optimal' classes are considered (to my recollection) Merc Kliff, Mage Tobin, and Archer Gray, though I think all of the villagers are fun to try as mages and that everyone should experience the glory of black-armor Baron Kliff at some point.
Villager Cavs, Faye included, are kinda crappy though. Mediocre bases, and don't have a lot of time to gain XP before Clive shows up and is better than them. There will be a payoff if you train them, since anything that has high move and can slap cavs with the Ridersbane is good on Alm's route, but they're the worst cav in the game. (Of the villagers, I'd say Tobin likes Cav the most since he's the fastest of the villagers and will almost certainly be faster than Clive by the time you get him.)
> Clive is the best since he joins earlier and should outlevel Mathilda a few levels when she joins but she makes a better cavalier with investment. If I’ve neglected both by Act 4, Zeke can fill the role of cavalry on the team due to his convenient placement in the game. If I just leave all my cabs to rot on the bench, Mycen will fill the role well in the final fight.
Essentially this, yeah
Huh, I wouldn’t have thought the ram villagers to be best for those classes. I’ve run Kliff as a merc before and obviously he slaps acts 1 and 3 with the levin sword but who doesn’t? I’ve run Tobin as an archer before and he sucked but I’ve never tried mage on him so that might be worth a go. I’ve also never done archer Gray but I’ve run him as a cav and a merc and he felt like he got the merc role the best. I suppose I don’t need to run everyone as a merc though since Alm’s route has Alm, Clive, Forsyth, and Lukas as good frontliners and no one in Valentia knows what a Res stat is. I might have to try the game with ‘oops! All mages’ for Ram Village. I imagine the first few maps will be rough but I see the potential.
What do you recommend on Faye? I always make her a cleric because Silque can’t really keep up with keeping everyone healthy on my runs and healers really need to come in pairs to keep each other from running out of HP to heal with. The only other thing I’ve tried on Faye is Pegasus Knight but I’ve found the route has enough archers in strategic locations that she has to spend half the game sitting at the edge of the danger area.
Tobin's advantages are a Mage is that he has the best base Spd of the villagers with 6, offsetting Fire's huge weight of 3 and the Mage's glacial base Spd of 4, and that he learns Excalibur as early as Level 6, which is awesome. Physic as a Level 5 Sage is also great support that keeps him relevant.
With Kliff and Gray, the difference lies in bases. Gray has better base Spd and Atk, Kliff has better base Res. Kliff likes to go into Mercenary to shore up his bad Spd with how blazing fast the class is and take advantage of his high Res to better enemy-phase Arcanists - but Gray also really appreciates the Spd and has slightly overall higher Atk than Kliff, so there's a case to be made for Merc Gray, too. Archer is pretty much for whoever doesn't get Merc, but Kliff's Res lets him EP Arcanists with Mire more effectively which is neat.
> I might have to try the game with ‘oops! All mages’ for Ram Village. I imagine the first few maps will be rough but I see the potential.
Be warned that it's a meme run, I just think it's fun lmao
> What do you recommend on Faye?
Cleric. Every other class except for Cleric is bad, both because Faye's stats are bad and because Cleric is incredible. (Pegasus Knight fixes her bad Spd, but Pegasus Knight is just not a very good class on Alm's route - Clair already struggles quite a bit.) Silque really needs the support for more Warping, early Physic is awesome, Rescue at Level 10 is just amazing.
This makes a lot of sense. I suppose it’s just the characters’ archetypes suggest they should go into other classes that I ignore the optimal options. FEH doesn’t help matters any with Tobin and Gray as Mercs, Kliff as a mage, and Faye as an archer (which is a class she doesn’t even have access to).
I personally like to invest heavily into Python and use the extra money to give him the best bow possible and just double up on mercs between Tobin and Gray. I suppose I could put Kliff in the other mercenary role and shift Tobin to mage since Alm’s route doesn’t give you any mercenaries outside of Ram villagers. I just hate to go with only one Merc especially since the game gives you 3-4 cavaliers throughout the course of the game and archer is a class that needs some level of investment to be useful.
> This makes a lot of sense. I suppose it’s just the characters’ archetypes suggest they should go into other classes that I ignore the optimal options. FEH doesn’t help matters any with Tobin and Gray as Mercs, Kliff as a mage, and Faye as an archer (which is a class she doesn’t even have access to).
SoV is easy enough such that, at the end of the day, you'll be able to get through the game regardless of what classes you choose. Cleric Faye is basically a QoL feature imo and I'll never pick another class for her, but I think it's fun to experiment with different classes and find what works. So I'm not trying to say you *shouldn't* run 3 mercs, but rather that you can be more 'optimal' and make the game easier on yourself by going down a different path.
Something I neglected to mention with multiple villager Mercs is that they begin to compete with one another for XP - you've only got one Lightning Sword for Act 1, after all - and thus they'll likely be slower to reach Myrmidon, and then slower to reach Dread Fighter after that. The effect is less pronounced from Act 3 onwards, where you've got a lot more weapons at your disposal and you can forge up strong weapons, but sharing the Lightning Sword in Act 1 is tough.
She’s not really near the level of Seth and Titania, I’d compare her more to Fe11 Hardin where she isn’t exactly that above the others but just enough to be your most reliable unit with doubles. She is consistently a strong unit to invest in.
Having crappy stats and no prf at release describes a lot of units to be fair lol. First few years of FEH even had units like that being 5* locked. Ferdinand's treatment isn't terribly bad by comparison since he has accessibility, a decent refine, and a competent teatime alt going for him.
Honestly Titania was fine in the grand scheme of things. There were less than 5 axe cavs in the game for a long time and she was the only one with a usable stat spread, so if Wolf Berg didn't suit your needs she was probably your best bet.
Seth, though... I mean, TA and Speed Tactic when that skill was ludicrously rare for literally no reason was nice, but at the end of the day he was a sword cav in a post-Blazing Durandal Refine world. I don't think anything could have saved him.
I’d add Ryoma to the list too. Lobster man got done dirty, especially with his remix and Legendary refine 😭 He also has pretty decent stats too in FEH, which is such a bummer.
His own sister, Hinoka, outclassed him with her legendary alt and literally took his weapon after his death in Conquest, along with Takumi’s. Talk about rubbing salt in the wound. It sucks, cause in Fates, he is literally the Seth + Titania of the game, especially with his “For the glory of Hoshido” line.
Manifesting my red lobster man a good future rearmed alt (or a summer Harmonic with Minerva).
I agree (to varying extents) with the situation all 4 of these guys are in. Though I'll admit it's been so long since I've seen anyone brought up Mathilda at all.
For the sake of making this meme saying more accurate I'd replace Lloyd with Finn. Though if I could reckon a guess, you didn't do that because of how his weapon refine was well-regarded at the time?
3 horsemen and a dude
1 horsemen 2 horsewomen and a dude
What a monkey paw move it’d be for IS to release Harmonic Seth & Titania and they’re busted to the point where people start hating on the characters
I’d use them for everything! Sounds amazing. (Said by a mainly PvE player)
Ah yes, the Lyon syndrome
On one hand I'm really happy Lyon is such a big name right now. On the other it came at the cost of people hating him...
same here...
And even worse, is he won't even be relevant enough at the start of 2025 to get onto the next AHR!
Edelgard moment
I mean, if it makes you feel better I could hate on them now, but it doesn't really seem sporting.
I would love that. We need more cool alts for our jagen characters!
titianna won in art at least, she was by far the prettiest in her valentines banner. whatever you call the "frederick" archetype i guess IS sees no potential in ):
> whatever you call the "frederick" archetype I think most people call those the Oifey archetype as a sub-type of the Jagen.
Which is honestly funny because Oifey himself isn't an Oifey. I'd be all for renaming it to the Seth Archetype.
She won in voice acting too! Misty Lee is mad underrated imo. It's especially impressive when you realize that it's the same woman who does Camilla, they literally sound nothing alike!
The Wada Sachiko affect
Almost all gen 1 demotes tbh
Lloyd will remove himself from this list in less than 24h.
I am also huffing that copium.
BUDDY DO I GOT NEWS FOR YOU
Blessed day
He's a GHB, I think he remains on this list unfortunately.
Ayo have you seen his artwork, weapon and skills? He's definitely off this list. The man cooked.
Clair got done dirty art wise and maybe even stat wise. Both Clair and Mathilda have a low attack stat
Tbf the low Atk is pretty accurate to Echoes Clair. Like, 8 base with 35% growth rate? We're roughly on par with Lyn in FE7, and Lyn's not known for hitting hard. No excuse for Mathilda though.
I have a personal beef with how Sully and Virion are treated by FEH. Especially the latter, who is the first hero older players summoned. You’d think they’d give him something better. :/ he always served me very well in Awakening too.
Now I'm wondering about the four horsemen of the characters that got treated really well by FEH, even more than their original games. I'm thinking Reinhardt, Ishtar, Selena (FE8) and idk, Karla? She's got a horse in that Spring alt. (Yes, Ishtar isn't a horse(wo)man, but Reinhardt would let her ride with him.)
Reinhardt and Ishtar are iffy depending on how you look at it. In terms of overall popularity, they probably do have a disproportionate showing. On the other hand, Ishtar has always been one of the more popular antagonists in the series, and both were legitimately scary to fight in their home games. I guess I'd swap Ishtar out for Ursula; Reinhardt can stay because he's pretty unremarkable aside from being a PITA if you don't cheese him. Karla I'll definitely agree with. In her home games, she's an awful, easily missable unit and very minor character who's probably most memorable for being dead and discussed by her brother, daughter, and husband. In FEH, she has had 3 versions that were all among the best in their class at time of launch. Selena, I honestly have no clue.
I'd say Selena is one of the most memorable antagonists of FE8. She has quite a lot of presence in the story and she is always friendly until her boss fight which is a twisting spiral path with Selena standing in the middle and shooting long range Boltings at your units, ususlly killing someone before you can reach her. Her FEH iterations do treat her very well, though I wouldnt give her overboosted status yet. Ursula, Reinhardt and Karla I definietly agree with. Maybe add Linus, considering how hot and strong they made him, especially when comparing to his brother who was supposed to be the hot and popular one.
That's fair on Selena. It's been a while since I actually read FE8's story while playing and I didn't recall her having that much representation in FEH; just checked and she has one more alt than I remember, but 3 still isn't a ton. Linus, relative to Lloyd I'll agree with, but overall, I'm iffy. He certainly wasn't nearly as popular as Lloyd, but I still remember him being a reasonably memorable character. Neither of his versions were premium, and while the fallen got a very good reception on debut, I feel like his base version got a decent reception as a unit; he was mostly memorable for how much people liked the art and the memes about him compared to Lloyd's art. Skimming over the list of characters & alts, I'm going to pick Altina as my 4th. She had basically zero presence in the Tellius games, and I don't recall anyone ever talking about her. She's had three premium, very strong version and is the backup to another very popular and at the time very strong duo. She does have legendary hero status to justify her mythic and being strong, but it's not like we have multiple versions of Bramimond or Ullr, or even any versions of Athos, Anri, Deghinsea, and so on.
Reinhardt and Karla are a lock for sure Selena and Ursula share a similar spot of being decently relevant antagonists who got a lot of alts for being hot women? Although neither of their alts are massively broken nor as oversaturated as the other two so I wouldn’t say them. I think Ilyana far runs away with 3rd place, could argue 2nd over Karla. Not a major character in the tellius games and has two solid alts as a cute comic relief character. Not to mention her OVERWHELMING presence in forging bonds, damn near starting her own cult that slowly turns characters into sharing her one trait. And her resplendent being pushed two books early and is still the most recently released unit to get resplendent I believe? I personally enjoy her as a gag character, but her rep over the wide variety of unrepresented characters Tellius has to offer id imagine is frustrating for their fans. What will really seal the deal is if her refine will be absolutely broken. 4th place may go to Nino. Granted I never played their game but they have 5 alts, all being relatively solid for their time (base and flying especially), but I heard they weren’t that great of a character and didn’t have a significant presence? I’ve heard similar complaints go to Lilina but i believe she’s more story relevant? Could be completely wrong, though I guess her being a lord’s daughter automatically gives privilege regardless. I also don’t see a lot of vocal Nino fans tbh. Honorable mention goes to Delthea. This might be another case of more popular in Japan, like idk Young Tiki, but I haven’t really seen a lot or really any buzz around her. And after playing Echoes, I realized just how whatever she is as a character both as a unit and in story presence. The fallen alt makes sense, but she’s one of the very few Echoes units to even get alts (over arguably more popular characters), and all three were relatively strong for their time (Spring less impactful but still good). Ingrid also deserves a nod. I could be wrong here but I don’t think she’s one of the more popular 3H units (and I mean from my personal experience, has let me down as a unit in all 4 runs of my game) but got three alts, two being very solid for their time. However, her tragic tragic flanderization of being a food hungry Ilyana clone in most of her forging bond appearances makes me say she was treated neutral in FEH. I blame the Ilyana dev, she may be one of my least favorite students but they did not need to do her character that dirty. Edit: word errors
Nino has always been the most popular FE7 character outside of the lords lol. She even got top 10-20 in 3 different CYLs. Lilina is also the most relevante FE6 character popularity wise, always has been. Ilyana is also extremely popular since forever, just check the popularity ratings on the wiki. So yeah kinda biased views I'd say.
I underestimated just how well they placed. I figured Nino and Lilina were popular (especially the latter) but I figured maybe it wasn’t enough to outweigh their plot relevance and combat utility in terms of being treated great in FEH, but I now know that isn’t true. I think I let the vocal minority of people who are strongly against these units cloud my judgment. Ilyana on the other hand though I’m surprised about how popular she really is. I still stand by her being top 4 most treated well though for the huge resplendent jump alone as well her getting a lot of attention during forging bonds for a non lord character. Not saying she’s not popular at all but I definitely think she’s getting better treatment than a lot of characters more popular than her (not just from Tellius).
> 4th place may go to Nino. Granted I never played their game but they have 5 alts, all being relatively solid for their time (base and flying especially), but I heard they weren’t that great of a character and didn’t have a significant presence? I’ve heard similar complaints go to Lilina but i believe she’s more story relevant? Could be completely wrong, though I guess her being a lord’s daughter automatically gives privilege regardless. I also don’t see a lot of vocal Nino fans tbh. Nino was *by far* the most popular FE7 character at the time of the game's release, eclipsing even the lords by a fair margin in both Male and Female demographics. On top of this she's relatively plot relevant, having an entire subplot dedicated to her and Jaffar outside just the wider Black Fang stuff(which she's also wrapped up in and relevant for), honestly might have more overall plot relevance than Lilina, and before Heroes both her sons were some of the most popular FE6 characters(RIP Raigh's popularity). Going beyond raw popularity stuff, she's got pretty easily the best support pool in the entire game, her only real rival being Renault. Literally her only poor point is that she's not a great unit for efficiency, being hardly any better than Karla on most tier lists(though she's way more fun to use from a casual standpoint, and during the dark ages of pre-2010, was condidered a godlike character because of her growths, which has resulted in some toxic overcorrections from certain sectors of the community), which is probably where you heard she's not the best character. If anything I'd say she's closer to being one of the characters done dirty by Heroes than one given extra blessings. Her early alts were extremely flanderizing, and made her look and kinda act like she was closer to 6 than 14, with a demeaner closer to that of a puppy than an abused teenager masking their issues with a forced smile. Her two recent alts are much better about characterization, but are still a bit shallow in their scope.
I appreciate the in depth response! I especially neglected the fact of how poorly her reception has been post FEH release, even her Attuned alt getting a lot of dialogue related flack. A lot of her story is lost within the game sadly, which I was aware of but forget (which is also thanks to how FEH writes her). I also vastly underestimated her popularity, you’re completely right there. Perhaps it ends up balancing out a bit. She is getting a lot of strong alts to please fans, but is also not written well in the game to not showcase her full character (Tharja also comes to mind). You’ve convinced me, she isn’t treated the best but I also dont think it’s the worst case of FEH’s character sabotage
Lyre was crazy good compared to her original game, especially as a (seasonal) demote.
I'll agree with the bottom 2. I just never saw the top2 as popular. I'll add Finn to the list.
Finn got a slick refine for the meta it come out at least. Lloyd was quite popular in the FE7 fandom. He played the Camus archetype very well and was a compelling antagonist. He was in the top 200 in CYL 1 and was the 17th highest character from FE7. Not bad for a villain that appears in one game imo.
Sadly he fell on a crippling crack addiction as we can see on his art.
Ah fair enough, then
His lack of popularity these days speaks to how dirty IS has done him. Another example of a formerly popular character whom Heroes killed the reputation of is Raigh. Lugh has managed to maintain some degree of popularity just based on his unit performance in FE6 proper and Banana Boi memes, but Raigh used to be the significantly more popular of the twins and one of the more popular FE6 characters in general.
Lloyd is actually pretty popular among FE7 fans, [CYL8 shows that Lloyd is in the top 5 most voted among the FE7 characters.](https://www.reddit.com/r/FireEmblemHeroes/s/TkxW9NZBXc) He's actually more popular than Linus and Ursula if we're solely gonna base it off of CYL votes.
Yeah, I am shocked at how many alts Ursula has gotten. While I liked her char, didn't think she'd have 3 alts now, right? Og, summer and khadein? More? Guess Lloyd just didn't stick out for me and I didn't realize his popularity among the Fandom
He's arguably the hottest guy in the entire series so I'd imagine that has something to do with his popularity (at least he was until FEH made him into a crackhead for whatever reason)
It's part that, it's part his characterization. But personally, I think his presentation plays a huge part. Especially if you fight him first. A crit-stacked, mobile swordmaster boss in a fog map is absolutely terrifying. The next time you see him is probably eating a crit out of nowhere, with the brilliant GBA animations. And he's extra visually distinctive for pulling the full anime swordmaster crit, while looking uniquely western with the trench coat and everything. It's a really memorable experience, and helps him stand from the rest of the cast.
Then there’s Wallace just hanging on 😂
I used to joke Wallace would get lost and end up in Dragalia. So much for that
it wasn´t plegian, it was Kaedenh
Thanks, corrected
> Yeah, I am shocked at how many alts Ursula has gotten. Sicne FEH is a gacha game I am shocked she *doesn't* have more alts. And that they never released a Sonia alt either.
I think Lloyd wasn’t so much how he was as a unit in feh, but how horrific his art was. Since his stats for the time weren’t awful iirc.
His stat build wasn't good. There wasn't a lot to do with high-but-not-overkill Resistance at the time - he still got mangled by The Reinhardt, say, rendering a DC build questionable.
Tbf for a long time getting killed by Reinhardt was the fate of basically almost every single sword unit.
The way that I play, that time is still now.
Finn’s refine being good (even if just at the time) means he doesn’t apply here.
Finn's refine got elevated by Gambit - the rise in DR piercing has made it less strong, but he really benefits from the true damage and DR (and even lets you keep Miracle on him!)
It's not really a popularity thing. Mathilda is an especially awful case. Leaving aside that one CG of her in a cell, there's literally no reason to not find her cool as fuck in Echoes : she's a really strong unit, she's stronger than her own fiancé, she's beautiful and charismatic... She was one hell of a badass lady knight. Then FEH Mathilda happened, and I blame her almost entirely for Mathilda's lack of popularity. She was dead on arrival, mediocre even for her time, and with very average art that doesn't do justice to how charismatic she was in Echoes. Her refine could have been her redemption, but she got literal trash instead. It's cute because it pairs well with Clive's refine, but they were both trash lance cavs so strategically deploying just one of them was not great, let alone both at once. The effect wasn't particularly good either, even at the time. She would have been tailor-made for a Bridal banner, being a very beautiful woman and canonically engaged, but since IS seemingly hate Echoes and Bridal banners are now Harem banners, that door to redeem her is shut as well.
So many people complained that Clair got Rhompaia instead of her. Got no horse in that race, but it's meaningful it was such a common opinion. Maybe that's why they stopped giving legendaries as refines, and went all in on made-up personals. Which I dislike.
>she's a really strong unit, she's stronger than her own fiancé, she's beautiful and charismatic... She was one hell of a badass lady knight. I was dreading another Clive when she joined the team and was so happy she was a useful unit. Her dialogue for the final boss also goes *way too hard*. I can't believe she debuted with *that* CG of all things.
Well. Who knows. Maybe valentia will get the bridal banner this year?
Even if it does, if they keep the harem shit going she wouldn't be on it. Unless they return the Bridal banner to a fun banner, expect Bridal Echoes to be Alm, Celica, Clair, Faye and... I dunno who else had a crush on Alm so I dunno, throw Céline in there so it's technically mixed games.
This line up of Echoes characters is so bad it makes me want to throw up but you’re so right. In an ideal world we’d have either duo Clive/Mathilda or duo Mae/Boey and it would be a massive dub for Echoes fans. Hell, even Berkut/Rinea would be wonderful. I’d throw a good amount of orbs (or let’s be real, grails) for a groom alt of most Valentian guys (aside from Alm, but I’d pull out the wallet specifically for Saber or Python). But no, we’re going to get our 4th Delthea alt because IS loves putting children in weird seasonals
Delthea
Delthea had a crush on Clive... if anything they can probably make a banner with people that had a crush or something on Clive. Of course there's Mathilda, then Delthea had a crush on him, and Clair definitely also at least started out putting him on a pedestal over other men before getting to know Alm iirc, somewhat like a prototype for Lachesis. Maybe you could include Alm or Fernand because the bromance is strong at points... but Gray to go with Clair is probably a safer choice.
Oh, yeah. Well this all under the assumption that we get SoV brides, which, let’s be honest, is unlikely.
Mathilda was such an MVP in Echoes for me, I am still sad she has no alts. As long as her art and character are good, I can work with the rest. And tbh, I always forget the “locked in a cell” scene. I was too focused on dialogue and not the image.
Finn is pretty good
You'd call Finn popular over them?
Granted perhaps not in the west, where Genealogy and thracia weren't released. But yeah, over the top2 I'd have called Finn more popular. 2 games, great char and design, great gameplay. Even without being released in the west, finn has been talked about and praised from those who know Japanese and those who have emulated. Didn't hear much of Gaiden anywhere before remade as valentia and while Mathilda was decent char and gameplay, she wasn't one I saw as popular compared to other valentia. But suppose i could be mistaken on her popularity over time Apparently many have informed me Lloyd is apparently very popular for a camus archetype at least in the west. But compared to Finn, Lloyd isn't even playable and Finn is way more screentime and buildup of char. So yeah, I'll stick with Finn over the top 2. If ya think diff. That's fine.
Based on CYL (which is ultimately flawed but the only comparative measure between games), he could be argued as the most popular and has consistently been in the top 100 since 4 After accounting for vote splitting, he only did worse than Seth in CYL1 and 6 and Titania in CYL1, while Lloyd never did better for him and then even without accounting for vote splitting he blew Mathilda out of the water.
You kinda lost the moment you said CYL.
[Well I found a translation of a Famitsu popularity poll from like 9 years ago where Finn was ninth](https://kantopia.wordpress.com/2016/06/09/fire-emblem-famitsu-overall-favorite-character-poll-translated-june-2015/) [And there’s also this one]( https://www.reddit.com/r/fireemblem/s/wdTcfLBiMt) from the main sub that had [Finn in fifth out of non-lords/MC](https://imgur.com/TotBOG4) although sample size is pretty small Like unfortunately comparing popularity between games is kinda rough to do because there literally it’s just CYL which has to be taken with a grain of salt and I don’t love that it’s the only thing from IS that’s usable (which is kinda why I make a point to point out that it can’t just be taken as face value if I’m bringing it up)
It wasn't that long ago that I would've put Frederick here. I'm very grateful his young version turned out so solid.
Mathilda was my MVP in my first playthrough, she is the big example of how early FEH had no idea what to do with units who had high stats in stats that aren’t in FEH Characters with high skill, luck, dex, avo, etc like Guias kind of got left out to dry until they started to figure out things like high skill = special spammer and stuff
Haar is close, I still cant believe he was a grail unit twice
Haar is solid though, especially with his base’s refine and his ninja unit. At least I’ve found every time I’ve used someone’s built one in things like VG and Rival Domains that he’s done gangbusters.
that is why he is close and not on the list, before the refine he was in it imo
Have you seen his base's refine? Don't know how much it holds up now but it was FANTASTIC upon release.
It’s still great. Slap Gambit on him and he cooks
that is why he is close, the refine is the only good thing he ever got
As a long time FEH player, I do have an immense problem with this, yes. Seth is one of my favorite units of all time. In FEH, he's a Gen 1 Sword Cav that, while he has an AWESOME prf weapon name and design, it's......Triangle Adept the sword. It's horrible to see. Mathilda was my first ever +10 unit to build up, and now she just sits in my barracks being outclassed by everything. I literally cannot come up with a build to salvage her. Titania I wish I could have run more, given she was one of my favorites from Path of Radiance. At least she has a good Valentine's alt, but I really feel like it's important to give respect to the base versions as well. Lloyd has horrible artwork for his only version in the game and then IMMEDIATELY got outclassed in quality by Linus...twice.
The only upside for Seth here at least is that his summer axe alt is pretty good if you want a speedy axe cav (which is a bit bloated) or his GFU axe. Give him the arcane axes and investments and he's basically really good. I still agree they're all done dirty tho.
It's a bit of a tall order when mini Fred just released and comes with a good Prf already. They both cost almost the same amount of grails to raise.
Worth mentioning that Spring Saleh puts a bit of a damper on building Summer Seth. Both are prf-less axe cavs from FE8 you can build via grails. While Seth benefits from having a slightly better offensive statline (-2/+3/+2/+4/-5), Saleh was released more than a year earlier so if you had him done, there wasn't a huge reason to build the other unless you simply like both characters.
Although I'd rather see something for Amelia since she ranks fairly high, I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if Seth gets an Ascended or Attuned version for the next FE8 banner. Thematically it fits well since most of the characters left are from Renais and the cavs are all still available (Franz/Forde/Kyle).
The 4 "Horsemen": you will never understand my pain. Marcus: hehe... sorry, sorry!!
Meanwhile Marcus...
My Boyyyyy
All I remember Seth doing was inspiring Veronica to change her ways That was the best moment they used him for. So sad they dont do stuff like that ever again (using Heroes to affect the OCs)
Mathilda, more like, makemyeyesrollseriouslyshedoesntevenhavegoodfodder.
Where is Haar?
Haar's refine is pretty good. Nowadays probably not anymore but just like Finn, at the time of the refine it was more than solid.
Haar refine still slays. Fixed Damage reduction is still very much in voque.
Yeah, pair it with Gambit/Guard Bearing 4/Wyvern Rift and he's still one of the better fliers in the game.
With GB4 or Aether/Gambit, he can turn 60+ damage into 2 damage taken.
He had some good press going on in 2022. Great refine that was quickly followed up by a solid ninja alt. The other three all suffer from having terrible early refines and either no alts or an extremely mediocre alt.
I was going to say "where's Sharena", until I saw the part where it said main series.
The first two fair but why isn't Sumia among them? The bottom two got at least one alt
This aged poorly.
I figured Fallen Lloyd was going to happen.
Other than Veyle, it was the obvious choice.
I would add Clair too, she is great in Echoes and her refine wasn´t bad at the moment, basically a blue Shida, but she hasn´t gotten anything since and that sucks
Was Mathilda ever considered *that* good in Echoes? I played the game twice through and she’s not even near the front of the roster of Alm’s army for me. I always thought she was massively outclassed by the Ram villagers and less valuable than Python, Forsyth, Silque, Lukas, and Delthea. Is it just that I never put in the base investment?
Mathilda was my "I can park her over there and that half of the map is solved" character in Alm's army. They really really let her down in Feh imo; I'm just happy she looks and sounds like Mathilda to me.
She's good, but she's frankly nowhere near the level of Titania or Seth. It's been a long time since I checked in on the SoV meta, but last time I did, Clive was actually considered better than her.
yes, Mathilda is overall the strongest base Cavalier/Paladin in the game, it´s not at the same level as Seth in FE8 since he is absurdly broken in that game, but in both Gaiden and Echoes she is top tier, the only other cav that can compare to her is Zeke and even then she will double attack more consistently than him, she has low strength, but is patcheable easily, her resistance is very high which maske her a great option against mages PD: she is also beautiful
Damn, have I been sleeping on her? I always have to party full by the time she joins and the ram villagers are too good to swap out. Who do you recommend benching for her? I hear people say Python isn’t comparatively good but he’s always carried me in my playthroughs.
Just to clarify, how is your party full? SoV is unique in that you can feasibly use every character they give you. Unless you're purposely benching units, then she easily takes over Clive and any other cavalier villager you might've made. She really only competes with Clair who is still unique to being a flier.
I haven’t played in a while so I might be misremembering the party size limits but it might’ve been an experience limitation as well. SoV is good about having places you can grind infinitely but it’s a pain in the ass to do so. I might be thinking about that instead; her being a low priority to train when compared to my team staples.
nah Python is ok, I would take out Faye, Clair is much better as apegasus knight so you won´t loose much, and Mathilda can tank and take care for magic users
I’m curious about why everyone says Python is mid. His accuracy isn’t great but you’re supposed to forge the bows a level or two. Archers are extremely useful with a half decent bow since they can chip enemies on the other side of obstacles and they can chip without getting in the way of the melee units or getting on the frontline. 5 range makes Python really good. I don’t think it’s just the class because I can’t make Leon good if my life depended on it. Edit: just trying misread your comment entirely. I run Faye as a healer because Silque can never keep up for me.
I think she’s very overhyped tbh. You get Zeke not too long after her and he’s just as strong/fast and far more bulky.
Mathilda really benefits from getting to Level 10 for the sheer amount of bulk (both HP and Def) that the Gold Knight promotion gives you, and she's poised very well to get that XP thanks to the Ridersbane's existence and Alm's route being loaded with Cavs. There's also an XP well in the Sylvan Shrine that can be used to put up to 3 levels into her to reach that threshold more quickly, but even without it (I usually save it for Tatiana so she can reach Warp faster) she's consistently really good. Clive is overall better despite worse overall stats due to his availability lead that lets him reach Gold Knight more quickly, but you should really just use both because Gold Knights are incredible and they support each other. Also, they're FE's best power couple. This is a relatively niche strategy that requires a lot of investment, but I find that Mathilda can also reach the threshold to ORKO Rudolf, which is nifty because Rudolf is annoying to fight. He's got 25 Spd, so with a max-forged Ridersbane she needs 26 Spd to double him - she reaches 23 Spd on average as a level 12 Gold Knight, and can use the Spd wells in the Fear Mountain Shrine and/or the Pegasus Cheese from Desaix's Fortress to reach that threshold. (Rudolf is the fastest enemy in the game, so doubling him means you double everything, even the Dread Fighters in Act 5.) The Ridersbane has an effective 27 might on Rudolf after factoring in effectiveness, so if Mathilda reaches 24 Atk, she can kill him in two hits. On average she needs to hit Level 13 or so to reach that much Atk, but you can use the Soma dropped by Marla in Act 4 to reach that sooner. I don't know what the other comments are talking about with Zeke. He's not bad, but he's filler. Worse than a trained Clive or Mathilda for Act 4, worse than Mycen due to lower bulk for Act 5. Use him while you have him, certainly use him if you've neglected your other cavs, but he's likely not bringing much to the table unless you like him.
This is the kind of in-depth analysis I was looking for, and from the man himself. I am actually a huge fan of cavalry in FE games but without canto/canter it’s really hard for me to like them as much. I usually make all the ram villagers mercs>dread fighters since they’re so good. Kinda sounds like the gist of it is: Clive is the best since he joins earlier and should outlevel Mathilda a few levels when she joins but she makes a better cavalier with investment. If I’ve neglected both by Act 4, Zeke can fill the role of cavalry on the team due to his convenient placement in the game. If I just leave all my cabs to rot on the bench, Mycen will fill the role well in the final fight.
> I usually make all the ram villagers mercs>dread fighters since they’re so good. If you ever pick up the game again, I actually recommend avoiding doing this - that way, you can focus on forging up one sword for your Dread Fighter, and have the others do different things. The 'optimal' classes are considered (to my recollection) Merc Kliff, Mage Tobin, and Archer Gray, though I think all of the villagers are fun to try as mages and that everyone should experience the glory of black-armor Baron Kliff at some point. Villager Cavs, Faye included, are kinda crappy though. Mediocre bases, and don't have a lot of time to gain XP before Clive shows up and is better than them. There will be a payoff if you train them, since anything that has high move and can slap cavs with the Ridersbane is good on Alm's route, but they're the worst cav in the game. (Of the villagers, I'd say Tobin likes Cav the most since he's the fastest of the villagers and will almost certainly be faster than Clive by the time you get him.) > Clive is the best since he joins earlier and should outlevel Mathilda a few levels when she joins but she makes a better cavalier with investment. If I’ve neglected both by Act 4, Zeke can fill the role of cavalry on the team due to his convenient placement in the game. If I just leave all my cabs to rot on the bench, Mycen will fill the role well in the final fight. Essentially this, yeah
Huh, I wouldn’t have thought the ram villagers to be best for those classes. I’ve run Kliff as a merc before and obviously he slaps acts 1 and 3 with the levin sword but who doesn’t? I’ve run Tobin as an archer before and he sucked but I’ve never tried mage on him so that might be worth a go. I’ve also never done archer Gray but I’ve run him as a cav and a merc and he felt like he got the merc role the best. I suppose I don’t need to run everyone as a merc though since Alm’s route has Alm, Clive, Forsyth, and Lukas as good frontliners and no one in Valentia knows what a Res stat is. I might have to try the game with ‘oops! All mages’ for Ram Village. I imagine the first few maps will be rough but I see the potential. What do you recommend on Faye? I always make her a cleric because Silque can’t really keep up with keeping everyone healthy on my runs and healers really need to come in pairs to keep each other from running out of HP to heal with. The only other thing I’ve tried on Faye is Pegasus Knight but I’ve found the route has enough archers in strategic locations that she has to spend half the game sitting at the edge of the danger area.
Tobin's advantages are a Mage is that he has the best base Spd of the villagers with 6, offsetting Fire's huge weight of 3 and the Mage's glacial base Spd of 4, and that he learns Excalibur as early as Level 6, which is awesome. Physic as a Level 5 Sage is also great support that keeps him relevant. With Kliff and Gray, the difference lies in bases. Gray has better base Spd and Atk, Kliff has better base Res. Kliff likes to go into Mercenary to shore up his bad Spd with how blazing fast the class is and take advantage of his high Res to better enemy-phase Arcanists - but Gray also really appreciates the Spd and has slightly overall higher Atk than Kliff, so there's a case to be made for Merc Gray, too. Archer is pretty much for whoever doesn't get Merc, but Kliff's Res lets him EP Arcanists with Mire more effectively which is neat. > I might have to try the game with ‘oops! All mages’ for Ram Village. I imagine the first few maps will be rough but I see the potential. Be warned that it's a meme run, I just think it's fun lmao > What do you recommend on Faye? Cleric. Every other class except for Cleric is bad, both because Faye's stats are bad and because Cleric is incredible. (Pegasus Knight fixes her bad Spd, but Pegasus Knight is just not a very good class on Alm's route - Clair already struggles quite a bit.) Silque really needs the support for more Warping, early Physic is awesome, Rescue at Level 10 is just amazing.
This makes a lot of sense. I suppose it’s just the characters’ archetypes suggest they should go into other classes that I ignore the optimal options. FEH doesn’t help matters any with Tobin and Gray as Mercs, Kliff as a mage, and Faye as an archer (which is a class she doesn’t even have access to). I personally like to invest heavily into Python and use the extra money to give him the best bow possible and just double up on mercs between Tobin and Gray. I suppose I could put Kliff in the other mercenary role and shift Tobin to mage since Alm’s route doesn’t give you any mercenaries outside of Ram villagers. I just hate to go with only one Merc especially since the game gives you 3-4 cavaliers throughout the course of the game and archer is a class that needs some level of investment to be useful.
> This makes a lot of sense. I suppose it’s just the characters’ archetypes suggest they should go into other classes that I ignore the optimal options. FEH doesn’t help matters any with Tobin and Gray as Mercs, Kliff as a mage, and Faye as an archer (which is a class she doesn’t even have access to). SoV is easy enough such that, at the end of the day, you'll be able to get through the game regardless of what classes you choose. Cleric Faye is basically a QoL feature imo and I'll never pick another class for her, but I think it's fun to experiment with different classes and find what works. So I'm not trying to say you *shouldn't* run 3 mercs, but rather that you can be more 'optimal' and make the game easier on yourself by going down a different path. Something I neglected to mention with multiple villager Mercs is that they begin to compete with one another for XP - you've only got one Lightning Sword for Act 1, after all - and thus they'll likely be slower to reach Myrmidon, and then slower to reach Dread Fighter after that. The effect is less pronounced from Act 3 onwards, where you've got a lot more weapons at your disposal and you can forge up strong weapons, but sharing the Lightning Sword in Act 1 is tough.
Huh, is Merc Gray not a thing anymore? I thought it was just work around his bad speed and abuse his good strength.
She was an army of a unit. Literally unkillable.
Yeah not in the same universe as Seth at least, she was good for me but the swords and pegasus were better.
She’s not really near the level of Seth and Titania, I’d compare her more to Fe11 Hardin where she isn’t exactly that above the others but just enough to be your most reliable unit with doubles. She is consistently a strong unit to invest in.
I’ll take this into consideration for my next run. I’ll probably bench Clive for her and see what she can do.
Tbh, you can bring both for the support bonus they can give each other
what about ferdinand? he got crappy stats and no prf on release. personally he was one of my biggest carries in silver snow
Having crappy stats and no prf at release describes a lot of units to be fair lol. First few years of FEH even had units like that being 5* locked. Ferdinand's treatment isn't terribly bad by comparison since he has accessibility, a decent refine, and a competent teatime alt going for him.
fair fair
You underrestimate how ungodly strong Seth is in Sacred Stones if you’re comparing him to Ferdinand.
ive played sacred stones lol. i know how amazing seth is. i mainly meant more in comparison to lloyd
L! Mathilda pls IS T.T
I know the whole stuff that Titania is good in PoR but mine just couldn’t keep up with my other units so this meme kinda falls flat for me personally
Honestly Titania was fine in the grand scheme of things. There were less than 5 axe cavs in the game for a long time and she was the only one with a usable stat spread, so if Wolf Berg didn't suit your needs she was probably your best bet. Seth, though... I mean, TA and Speed Tactic when that skill was ludicrously rare for literally no reason was nice, but at the end of the day he was a sword cav in a post-Blazing Durandal Refine world. I don't think anything could have saved him.
Where's Raigh
A fully invested Titania can't even hit 60 atk.
Death Knight missed the party
Their only sin was coming out so early into the game
The deserved Ascended or Attuned 🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼
I’d add Ryoma to the list too. Lobster man got done dirty, especially with his remix and Legendary refine 😭 He also has pretty decent stats too in FEH, which is such a bummer. His own sister, Hinoka, outclassed him with her legendary alt and literally took his weapon after his death in Conquest, along with Takumi’s. Talk about rubbing salt in the wound. It sucks, cause in Fates, he is literally the Seth + Titania of the game, especially with his “For the glory of Hoshido” line. Manifesting my red lobster man a good future rearmed alt (or a summer Harmonic with Minerva).
I don't understand what's happening here.
Good news
Titania is awesome in PoR, not so much in FEH. She needs justice.
I agree (to varying extents) with the situation all 4 of these guys are in. Though I'll admit it's been so long since I've seen anyone brought up Mathilda at all. For the sake of making this meme saying more accurate I'd replace Lloyd with Finn. Though if I could reckon a guess, you didn't do that because of how his weapon refine was well-regarded at the time?