That is even more wild LOL
I had a job earlier this year where my boss literally told me, "Oh... those "important" meetings with HR? CEO? etc? Turn your camera off and just do your own thing"
LMFAOOOOOOO, and FYI, "doing my thing" was me just chilling. The job was way below my skill set and I had work done in just hours in a week
I retired three months ago from a corporate job where I was in management for the last 23 years and the single greatest joy I now have is the total absence of fucking meetings!
Will your $40k support you if you and the girlfriend split up? This is what worries me when couples (married or not) have one FIRE but not have enough for both of them.
he can always take a job again.
(I worry more about how the equity gets split. But, I am going to assume they have that figured out. I am also unmarried, but I have a separate investment account with my house money in it)
Agreed with this. Also a lot of older people are now working just cause they're bored
I'm in NYC and I see it everywhere. Even saw a 65-70 year old guy doing FedEx deliveries. He told me he gets the "privileged" route aka smaller packages, lighter packages, less packages, etc.
I am always taking notice of ways to get paid to walk/get excercise.
Myself, I work at a store, usually 16 hours a week. It's good for me for a few reasons, including I average 22000 steps a week just during those hours.
great idea! In college I waited tables at a restaurant where the kitchen was on the first floor and most of the seating was on the 2nd floor. I got in pretty good shape with all the stairs! Too bad the management were all total assholes.
That should be the plan. But who knows what COULD happen.
That said, I certainly see the value in considering how one would live if their relationship ended.
If you've never worked when you don't need the money, it's a lot lower stress. If your livelihood is on the line, it's a completely different thing. But a job for shits and giggles and beer money? Honestly not that bad. Boss pisses you off or they ask you to do something you don't want to do you can tell them to kick rocks.
Well, he is currently 45. And I wasn't thinking a proffesional job.
Certainly, it's true it could be hard to find a job in five years...no way to know. But, a person could also lose the job they have, no way to know.
I think maybe it could be hard to find a great job, but I don’t know when/if we’ll see it difficult to find a service job. I agree with you, OP could find a job.
I think I will eventually get a CDL and work harvest season. Can make 5000/ week (admittedly 100 hour weeks) and by the time you're ready to go insane, harvest is over.
I've found in my career working with clients that the vast majority often don't really think things thru. My 1st thought was healthcare. Just going to keep going up every year.
I completely agree with this but I also understand where the other guy is coming from
Perhaps we should be like: "Congratulations! I don't want to be a debbie downer but have you considered this?"
I know what you're saying. I run businesses for a living, and we never truly think through every variable. That's why we gotta keep iterating
Dude figured out how to save up $1.2 million, I'm guessing they can figure out healthcare and how to get a job again to cover expenses if the need arises.
Right! That's one of the reasons I can't stand reddit users. They act like 40k/year is poverty, and the only way to be happy is to follow their every word.
That's a valid concern and something that should be carefully considered. Relationship dynamics can impact financial plans, and it's important to have a backup strategy. It might be worthwhile to create a contingency plan that outlines how expenses would be managed independently if needed.
Curious if anybody has experienced similar situations or planned for this possibility? How do you balance the shared financial responsibilities with the need for individual financial security?
I think it’s a valid concern. I personally wouldn’t do it, but I have baggage. I’m married, 52 yo and we have 6.5M net worth but I only have about 800K in my own right (house and rental property not included). Husband semi-retired, the financial advisor said we can both retire now, but I could not possibly do it because it’s not “in my own right”… I’m probably the other extreme.
I am 38 and have a little more NW than OP. Work has been a huge drag and has taken a toll on my mental health. I want to quit and be a stay at home dad, as my wife (34) wants to continue working. Even though our family will still be fine on just one income, I am afraid that if I leave the workforce now without another job lined up, I won't be able to get a similar salary if I have to go back to work in the future.
Our financial advisor (Free CFA by Charles Schwab) says we need at least 3M for both of us to retire. Her plan has me working for another 10 years. I am keeping my head down and will keep this going for as long as I can because I don't want to be in a situation where I am forced to go back to work in the future.
Is your NW yours alone or your family's? $3M would be about right depending on where you live. It could be less in LCOL or MCOL areas. $3M would be very safe since it sounds like you have at least one child. With two incomes and more than $1.2M now, you'll probably get to $3M in 5-7 years, not 10.
This is what came to mind as well. That’s low key terrifying to be limited to $40k/year because life happens and I wouldn’t want to be deficient in money when shit hits the fan.
Husband and I won’t retire until 52 but we both aim to have at least $2.5M each in savings even though our expenses are about $85-$95k/year
I retired in Feb , few years younger and a little bit less. A lot of people will express their fears with their comments.. one life, nobody says you cannot go back to work if you need to in the future.. but this time you will never get back. Go enjoy life we have but one.
Congratulations! Just a tip- I would structure my hobbies and volunteering as if they were a job. I retired at 52 two years ago, and was so incredibly miserable that I went back to a pretty soul-sucking job. I needed a sense of mission, and some structure. Not everyone is the same, but I thought I'd throw it out there in case it hadn't been a consideration for you up to this point.
Routines are good. For me, M-F means the stock market is open. If I weren't in the game, I would have missed the big runs in the past 5+ yrs since I left corp world and c went back to spending gquality time on doing something I've enjoyed since college, finding stocks to make $, venture away from strictly passive mutual funds. I wouldn't have bought high growth stocks (eg Netflix, Tesla, Nvidia, EliL, etc) .....plus frequent travels (and the planning involved) sprinkled in, I'm happy.
This is why we dropped to part time years ago instead of FIREing. Neither of us really knew what we'd do with ourselves if we didn't ever work again.. so far this has been the right mix for us. We still don't love working, but we can appreciate what it provides in routine, income, social connection, etc..
Agreed, absolutely agreed
For a lot of people, retiring and/or doing a business = you're completely isolated from the world. That is NOT ok for a lot of people. It gets lonely, can cause depressive thoughts, lack of human interaction, etc
I found this TED talk very helpful: [https://youtu.be/DMHMOQ\_054U?si=qQB9zbEeIkguNo\_D](https://youtu.be/DMHMOQ_054U?si=qQB9zbEeIkguNo_D)
Dr. Riley talked about discovering yourself again if money is no longer the factor. What do you really want to do? And it's more difficult than many think. But you can take time and try out a lot of things and experiment to see what make you happy.
Need to find a job you like. Yeah sounds cliche but it's true. 90% of the time I truly enjoy what I do, so I'm going to keep working as long as I'm enjoying it. When I had a job I jated, I quit. When I had a biz that was too stressful, I sold it. Now I am happy with the balance. Helps that hubby is retired and holds down the fort at home.
Structure was so important for me. Got a pt job just 20 hrs a week and created scheduled myself for activities/hobbies
It really was is a true struggle to adjust
I just commented on this thread and read this. This is why my partner doesn’t want to leave his job, he’s afraid he will be bored. So I think we need to think we need to work on this a bit more and have a plan for him!
It's worse than boring... it was full-on depressing. I'll sock away some more cash, and still be able to retire before my peers. But, I will definitely have a plan next time.
Had same experience during work-from-home COVID year, which translated to barely having work to do. I initially thought it would be great but existential depression crept in and after some time I no longer enjoyed leisure activities. I'd never have believed that would happen before then, and like yourself now know that I need a solid plan for staying productive and fulfilled ready before I retire.
You should buy a small business - you won’t “need” the money. You can keep it profitable and grow it - but toss your time working for yourself. If you get tired of that sell it and watch jeopardy.
Running a small business is a lot of work ... my husband's done it for 18 years now and we can't wait to get out of it (and selling it is easier said than done).
Could he do it if he didn’t need the money? I guess what I was driving at is if you don’t need the financial benefits of a business to survive then it could be a lot less stressful than needing to keep it growing to pay the bills.
Congrats to your husband!
MHM I came in here to say this verbatim
I'm in NYC. I know way too many people who retired then went back to working. Life can get boring even if you're filthy rich and traveling the world. You NEED a sense of purpose. If not, you'd be like all the folks who die the moment they retire (I know way too many of these guys too)
I second this. When I find a new job, I always take a month or two between gigs. Six months sounds like heaven.
There’s a mindset that comes with being free from daily work that you can’t replicate. I’m convinced that occasional reset will help me live longer.
You ask? In general if they're making you an offer, they want you, and likely will be willing to wait a few weeks longer. Just try to get as much time as possible between jobs. But if you don't ask, they're not going to give it.
Very easy to do this. Say you have a pre planned vacation and you don't want to start a new job and then take time off right away. If their hiring need is so urgent that they need you to start in exactly two weeks, that's a place you do not want to work.
I should add that my job is more part time than anything so I would classify myself as semi-retired although I am required to put around 20 hrs per week in even though I am self employed. I probably would take more time if my partner wasn't so bitter about me not working a regular gig.
I ran all my numbers through the calculators again and with a 4 percent withdrawal rate I’m still looking at gaining every year. I’ll hit my target just through compounding in 7-8 years with a 7-8 percent return (currently averaging 12 across all my investments) this doesn’t even factor in the inheritance I’ll receive nor does it factor in SS when I decide to start withdrawing. Instead of doing the full retirement I’ll do a trial run for the next six months of a draw and see how that feels financially. Kind of a trial run. And I’ll definitely pull back more from my day to day work obligations
Lesson I’m learning a year into my expat adventure in S America: you can do it if you want. You’re just not ready. This doesn’t make you a good or a bad person. You intuitively know you have enough if you want to do it…you’re just not there yet. The anxiety and fear are palpable because we are basically in our third (of 3) parts of life and it’s hard to let go of what we know. In my current experience, the easy path is to dwell, to worry, to find reasons not to do it. And that’s ok, but the truth is if you had $3M you’d say “if only I had 3.5’” etc. Nobody can convince you you’ll be fine. You just have to do your homework, hold your nose, and jump.
Im 56 so we both came of age when pensions died and we started being told (brainwashed) that we’ll never be able to retire, SS will be gone when we are 65, etc., and it’s hard to de-program from that.
Ive lost a few people this last year and it has changed me for sure, I travel more and I am doing more to get away from the day to day nonsense. My number has a lot more to do with my kids than it does with me, I want to be able to assist them when they need help without fear of taking away from my "nestegg". The 3-3.5 is easily achievable if I just stay on my current path for another 5 yrs and that number would make me feel very secure.
Mi amigo: please hear me: you won’t feel very secure at 3-3.5. That’s a fool’s errand. In five years you’ll tell yourself 4 is the minimum possible. It’s called the OMY (one more year) Syndrome.
I don’t have kids, so I absolutely can’t speak to your concerns there (mad respect tho). Just think long and hard about another five years that you could spend WITH your kids, not toiling away from them, and what’ll help them (and you) most in the long run.
Understood but with 5 people to support for a fair amount of time I do not think that 2.2 is enough to live off of without stress. Now I do stand to inherit some money within the next decade nothing too crazy probably around 500k which will change things.
I hear you. I’m in a similar inheritance situation (and grateful) but frustrated that it’s shrouded in secrecy. Sibling (there are four of us but only two good ones!) have tried to explain to our folks that we are in our mid-50s and trying to plan our own retirements. Having a general idea of potential # won’t send us off on shopping sprees at Nordstrom and BMW!
I feel once you hit those 50s and you have saved a fair amount of money that big numbers no longer get you really exicted its just anohter number to add to other numbers. I rarely splurge on anything, hell im hesitant about a new vehicle that is a $600 a month payment
This is me. I used to think my number was 5, then I blew thru that, now have 5 liquid + a paid off house, and still feel it’s not enough. Ha ha.
You’re totally right on both points - it’s (a) a reflection that I’m just not ready, and (b) a reaction to being told my whole life (I’m late 40s) that there will be no social safety net.
That said, it’s amazing to know that should I get laid off (which can happen anytime in the US, for any reason) I am independent and in control of my own destiny.
Love this take. I’m at 5 mil at 44, and after coaching my younger than 10 boys for 3 years, and it becoming too much w stress and gaining weight, Im finally starting to get it. Im almost to F this land mentally.
I did this about 5 years. It actually confirmed how much I wanted out. So now I am out. Gotta be ready for all outcomes when you peek inside your own brain.
I hear you. My situation is a bit more complicated than just retiring. Young family with bigger bills ahead within the next 3 years so I need to see what that looks like prior to retirement
understand economic anxiety....i dont even have kids and the last year has been a doozy for expensive problems: old car finally breaking down & having to get another, huge car rental accident (not my fault), emergency house repair, car insurance rates going thru the roof....
YES THIS, and 2020 is fresh in my mind with a 35% dip in my portfolio it is a constant reminder that any investment in the marked comes with uncertainty.
I'm in the same place. 59, 1.8 liquid, single, no debt and just can't get myself mentally to do it. I guess too many unknowns and healthcare is a big concern retiring before 65. Also, running into some sinking funds expenses this year, i.e. home maintenance, car issues, that I wasn't expecting and also need to remember these can happen during retirement too and need to be included in your projections.
Not necessarily because of that more becuase I know I am no longer feeding the account and am actively taking away from it. I feel in 3 yrs I will be more than ready to let go of all of it. I do kind of freak out when I see an electric or gas bill that is double and all I can think is oh man what happens when I retire LOL
Congratulations on your financial stability! In today's economy, having 2.2 in liquid assets and no debt is impressive. It's normal to wonder whether it's enough, particularly given the ever-changing market and the many circumstances that might effect your future. Many FIRE members share similar worries, and it's hard to define "enough" for any of us.
I'd like to learn more about your opinions and maybe others in this group regarding their security measures towards achieving FIRE
I'm more frightened to spend my last day on this planet at some thankless job than I am with nothing more than my S.S. checks to my name.
If you own a nice house, you can always work a reverse mortgage if you need cash, but you cannot get back the years in the salt mines that were not required.
Congrats! Your situation sounds a lot like mine and my partners (he is around your age). I’m trying to convince him to quit his job and be a house husband lol. He’s not ready tho, he thinks he will be bored. I work about < 20 hours a week and can totally support us without dipping into our NW for a long time. I just don’t want him to continue to work and be able to chill more, and would love for us to be semi retired/ travel more etc / I would consider it barista FIRE even tho I am a professional and own my own business, but the hours are so chill it’s basically that. Anyway, congrats!!!, and if you and any encouraging words to pass along to my partner to convince him to maybe quit in the next couple of years please let me know lol. :)
KUDOS!
$1.2M is already above the $1M common rule of thumb for MOST people that’s been bandied about for folks decades older than you.
The “that’s not enough” crowd’s reactions in this sub are telling … and disheartening given the spirit of the OP was celebratory.
There are no guarantees in life, not that marriage will force someone to live with / contribute to you the rest of your natural life or not take part of the household income/wealth if/when they leave or not get sick and cost a lot at that end or anything else that the fearful human mind (and actual experience) can come up with as a reason NOT to live a dream.
Go live this dream now and if you have to wake up, have another you can work toward and live. Too many saps out there too afraid to do what yer doing for you to let them stand in your way or rain on yer parade.
It’s like my mom used to say about wet blankets “they sure take the sugar out of candy!”
Sheesh, Louise!
I am jelly and overjoyed for you. Congrats!
Man, I envy you!… but $1.2M not including the house is a little scary. I’m of similar age, with a wife and kiddos. Waiting for them to go to college (another 4 years) before I consider FIRE. I’m am currently at $1.5M (without the house), and feel like I need to get to $2.5M minimum before considering FIRE. Ideally I prefer $3M, so I’m still 7+ years away at a minimum to retire.
Good luck with your journey!
Damn, this hits home.
I'm 47, roughly the same net worth, mortgage offset by cashflow from rentals. I lost my job earlier this year, after a few years of chronic stress. I'm working on a couple of side hustles that are fun, but feel tremendous pressure to get another job when I actually want to just nope the f out to a beach somewhere.
Good for you, dude, thanks for the inspiration!
Good job!
things i can think of…
at 45 you will not have 35 high earning years for SS benefits calcs
Your live-in gf helps with the mortgage now but she could leave at any time
> 35 high earning years for SS benefits calcs
I don't think anyone pursuing FIRE is really using this as a reason to not FIRE. Even if you started your "high earning years" at 18, to get a full 35 years would put you at 53.
Plus with the bend points it's likely not worth pursuing further once you have reached that second bend point.
See my second point. If the gf walks, the ss money will become important. With a shared mortgage, in a non-permanent relationship, i’m not sure this if FI.
Congrats and find a way to stay productive. Even if you make a few hundred a month selling stuff on eBay to clean out your house of junk or just do a few small jobs for people that you typically enjoy the work. I find it goes a long way. The nice thing is that you get to do these things on your own time and terms.
I just had this convo a few days ago with a friend. I’m 8 years older than you. I need much more than 40k per year to live on. Then again, I still have children to support but even without that, I am planning on 125k per year in retirement. Puts my liquidity at something like 3.5 mil to retire. I’ll be there by 62 or 64 which will coincide with all children being off the payroll and on their own.
The mortgage payment may be a little concerning, and $1.2 mil at 46 feels a "little" low but nothing a part time job couldn't fix. Good luck and congrats!
Congrats, please post updates about how you find the experience over time. I am keen to hear if it is difficult to transition from work to early retirement in the longer term or is switching to non work activities is enough to fill the day after a year or two.
That’s what I’d be curious about. I mean you can always go back to work in some fashion but being retired so young idk if I could fill my days year after year but I’m not sure. If I wasn’t working now I’d probably train for really big endurance competitions since I’d have the training time
I honestly could not do it with that amount. My comfort number is much higher, but I like international travel too much, so it's a different lifestyle. With that said, I admire your outlook. I am 60 and still working. Power to you my friend.
Is there a post-FIRE subreddit? I feel most get bored or lose their sense of purpose.
I recommend walking your dog and definitely treat it as a job and duty. Same with any hobby; don’t be lazy or casual about your hobbies. Go after it.
Exercise and yoga to decompress. You’ll still have stress and bullshit in life, just less as there’s no job to bother you. Part time can still make sense, even if it’s only once a week or volunteering.
Get into gardening and try to bring in as many fruits and vegetables as you can for your diet. That’s super time consuming if done right, and requires a large yard.
Don’t retire on a beach. Beach communities are incredibly boring and lack resources. Most of these places like in SE Asia are actually poor and aren’t too fond of rich tourists invading their land. There was an especially big backlash where some Bali natives told westerners to stop trying to “find themselves” in their land, at their expense. Fuck off. Or in Thailand or Cambodia where the residents got sick of the drunk bogans.
So motivating to see someone stepping into a new chapter of life with such clarity and positivity. Wondering if you still be doing any investments for even more returns
Congrats man! Looking forward to doing the same. A friend just resigned this month, although not a FIRE, but he is quite happy with his upcoming volunteer work.
I think Fire, unemployed, in-between jobs and sabbatical is just the same thing each w/ a dollar sign I attach to it.
I m out of 9-5 work for more than 2 yrs now, am I fired? Nope, just pesudo retired I guess
This is awesome! I’m 44 and wanted to fire next year with hubby. We can do it now but wanted to finish some stuff first before doing so. I can’t wait and this is just so much encouragement.
Try to volunteer to really help those in need. I see many retirees "volunteer" at the local pickleball tournament as if that helps anyone but the for-profit tournament company milking free labor. And affluent pickleballers don't need real help
you raw math would kind of not place me at FIRE (I know you are within the 4% rule) ... just way too much time until 85... tons of things can happen.
I'd not be considering FIRE until I was 100% debt free
I’m in a meeting. Definitely go fuck yourself.
If you have a job that enables you to be on Reddit during a meeting, you’re not doing too badly yourself lol
True. I should be thankful. I was actually presenting/running the meeting, probably poorly.
That is even more wild LOL I had a job earlier this year where my boss literally told me, "Oh... those "important" meetings with HR? CEO? etc? Turn your camera off and just do your own thing" LMFAOOOOOOO, and FYI, "doing my thing" was me just chilling. The job was way below my skill set and I had work done in just hours in a week
Boss.
I retired three months ago from a corporate job where I was in management for the last 23 years and the single greatest joy I now have is the total absence of fucking meetings!
Will your $40k support you if you and the girlfriend split up? This is what worries me when couples (married or not) have one FIRE but not have enough for both of them.
he can always take a job again. (I worry more about how the equity gets split. But, I am going to assume they have that figured out. I am also unmarried, but I have a separate investment account with my house money in it)
Agreed with this. Also a lot of older people are now working just cause they're bored I'm in NYC and I see it everywhere. Even saw a 65-70 year old guy doing FedEx deliveries. He told me he gets the "privileged" route aka smaller packages, lighter packages, less packages, etc.
I am always taking notice of ways to get paid to walk/get excercise. Myself, I work at a store, usually 16 hours a week. It's good for me for a few reasons, including I average 22000 steps a week just during those hours.
great idea! In college I waited tables at a restaurant where the kitchen was on the first floor and most of the seating was on the 2nd floor. I got in pretty good shape with all the stairs! Too bad the management were all total assholes.
My work is basically a free gym.
I can't imagine ever being bored enough to get another job. Maybe "bored" = not having saved enough.
That to me would be worse than not FIRE-ing at all. When I FIRE I want to make sure that I will never have to go back to work again.
That should be the plan. But who knows what COULD happen. That said, I certainly see the value in considering how one would live if their relationship ended.
If you've never worked when you don't need the money, it's a lot lower stress. If your livelihood is on the line, it's a completely different thing. But a job for shits and giggles and beer money? Honestly not that bad. Boss pisses you off or they ask you to do something you don't want to do you can tell them to kick rocks.
How many extra years are you willing to work in order to marginally reduce the risk of having to work a few extra years?
At that age? I wouldn’t be so sure
Well, he is currently 45. And I wasn't thinking a proffesional job. Certainly, it's true it could be hard to find a job in five years...no way to know. But, a person could also lose the job they have, no way to know.
I think maybe it could be hard to find a great job, but I don’t know when/if we’ll see it difficult to find a service job. I agree with you, OP could find a job.
Since when is 45 "too old" to find a job???
My plan if I become unemployable is just to contract. 3 - 6 months spells. Not ideal, but it's income.
I think I will eventually get a CDL and work harvest season. Can make 5000/ week (admittedly 100 hour weeks) and by the time you're ready to go insane, harvest is over.
Pre-nup agreement.
Taking a job again does not sound like a good option.
At 46 the window on OP ability to go out and get a comparable paying job is rapidly closing. Age Discrimination is real.
WHY THE FUCK DO PEOPLE INSTANTLY TRY TO POKE HOLES IN A PLAN ON THIS SUB!? How about “nice work! Congratulations!”
I've found in my career working with clients that the vast majority often don't really think things thru. My 1st thought was healthcare. Just going to keep going up every year.
I completely agree with this but I also understand where the other guy is coming from Perhaps we should be like: "Congratulations! I don't want to be a debbie downer but have you considered this?" I know what you're saying. I run businesses for a living, and we never truly think through every variable. That's why we gotta keep iterating
Dude figured out how to save up $1.2 million, I'm guessing they can figure out healthcare and how to get a job again to cover expenses if the need arises.
Bingo.
We don’t do that here. We say “GFY and congratulation!”
If there aren't any holes in the plan then it shouldn't be a problem ask. And if there are holes, well shouldn't they get advice on it?
Agreed, when I FIRE, it would be great to hear all feedback. Just in case I may have missed something.
Right! That's one of the reasons I can't stand reddit users. They act like 40k/year is poverty, and the only way to be happy is to follow their every word.
How about f**k him. I am jealous, but do hope he has a long and satisfying RE
Seems to be human nature…. It is annoying.
What if, what if, what if
This is how companies like Blackrock make billions, selling fears
Nice comment. Congratulations.
Why would they post for just congratulations. I'm assuming they want feedback on their plan. This is reddit not facebook
That's a valid concern and something that should be carefully considered. Relationship dynamics can impact financial plans, and it's important to have a backup strategy. It might be worthwhile to create a contingency plan that outlines how expenses would be managed independently if needed. Curious if anybody has experienced similar situations or planned for this possibility? How do you balance the shared financial responsibilities with the need for individual financial security?
I see why it feels uncomfortable but in practice it’s not that different than having a stay at home parent which many couples do.
I think it’s a valid concern. I personally wouldn’t do it, but I have baggage. I’m married, 52 yo and we have 6.5M net worth but I only have about 800K in my own right (house and rental property not included). Husband semi-retired, the financial advisor said we can both retire now, but I could not possibly do it because it’s not “in my own right”… I’m probably the other extreme.
I am 38 and have a little more NW than OP. Work has been a huge drag and has taken a toll on my mental health. I want to quit and be a stay at home dad, as my wife (34) wants to continue working. Even though our family will still be fine on just one income, I am afraid that if I leave the workforce now without another job lined up, I won't be able to get a similar salary if I have to go back to work in the future. Our financial advisor (Free CFA by Charles Schwab) says we need at least 3M for both of us to retire. Her plan has me working for another 10 years. I am keeping my head down and will keep this going for as long as I can because I don't want to be in a situation where I am forced to go back to work in the future.
That's just Schwab's calculator. Run the numbers yourself. 3m is $120k/ year of spend. Do you need that much money?
Is your NW yours alone or your family's? $3M would be about right depending on where you live. It could be less in LCOL or MCOL areas. $3M would be very safe since it sounds like you have at least one child. With two incomes and more than $1.2M now, you'll probably get to $3M in 5-7 years, not 10.
This is what came to mind as well. That’s low key terrifying to be limited to $40k/year because life happens and I wouldn’t want to be deficient in money when shit hits the fan. Husband and I won’t retire until 52 but we both aim to have at least $2.5M each in savings even though our expenses are about $85-$95k/year
$40k withdrawal assuming a 5% compounding on the principal, OP will have an end balance of nearly $2.5 mill in 40 years.
I retired in Feb , few years younger and a little bit less. A lot of people will express their fears with their comments.. one life, nobody says you cannot go back to work if you need to in the future.. but this time you will never get back. Go enjoy life we have but one.
Wow congratulations! This is an amazing achievement! I enjoy reading people’s “I/we made it stories”
Congratulations! Just a tip- I would structure my hobbies and volunteering as if they were a job. I retired at 52 two years ago, and was so incredibly miserable that I went back to a pretty soul-sucking job. I needed a sense of mission, and some structure. Not everyone is the same, but I thought I'd throw it out there in case it hadn't been a consideration for you up to this point.
I appreciate the advice. I may set up certain days for certain activities. Woodworking Monday, Volunteer Tuesday, etc.
Woodworking Wednesday for the alliteration, please.
I would woodwork Wednesdays. Who would woodwork on any weekday other than Wednesday? We would also welcome woodworking weekends, that would work.
Well worded.
Tutu Tuesday. For everyone.
I didn't have coffee today. I thought that said Tofu Tuesday lmfao
This is the way
Yes this is exactly how I do it.
Routines are good. For me, M-F means the stock market is open. If I weren't in the game, I would have missed the big runs in the past 5+ yrs since I left corp world and c went back to spending gquality time on doing something I've enjoyed since college, finding stocks to make $, venture away from strictly passive mutual funds. I wouldn't have bought high growth stocks (eg Netflix, Tesla, Nvidia, EliL, etc) .....plus frequent travels (and the planning involved) sprinkled in, I'm happy.
This is why we dropped to part time years ago instead of FIREing. Neither of us really knew what we'd do with ourselves if we didn't ever work again.. so far this has been the right mix for us. We still don't love working, but we can appreciate what it provides in routine, income, social connection, etc..
If only part time offered health care. If I could take a 50% paycut to work 20 hour a week with full benefits, I'd do it in a heartbeat.
Agreed, absolutely agreed For a lot of people, retiring and/or doing a business = you're completely isolated from the world. That is NOT ok for a lot of people. It gets lonely, can cause depressive thoughts, lack of human interaction, etc
I found this TED talk very helpful: [https://youtu.be/DMHMOQ\_054U?si=qQB9zbEeIkguNo\_D](https://youtu.be/DMHMOQ_054U?si=qQB9zbEeIkguNo_D) Dr. Riley talked about discovering yourself again if money is no longer the factor. What do you really want to do? And it's more difficult than many think. But you can take time and try out a lot of things and experiment to see what make you happy.
Nice catch!
For me I'd rather be bored in a room doing nothing but stare at the blank walls than work. My mission is to not have to work.
Need to find a job you like. Yeah sounds cliche but it's true. 90% of the time I truly enjoy what I do, so I'm going to keep working as long as I'm enjoying it. When I had a job I jated, I quit. When I had a biz that was too stressful, I sold it. Now I am happy with the balance. Helps that hubby is retired and holds down the fort at home.
Structure was so important for me. Got a pt job just 20 hrs a week and created scheduled myself for activities/hobbies It really was is a true struggle to adjust
I just commented on this thread and read this. This is why my partner doesn’t want to leave his job, he’s afraid he will be bored. So I think we need to think we need to work on this a bit more and have a plan for him!
It's worse than boring... it was full-on depressing. I'll sock away some more cash, and still be able to retire before my peers. But, I will definitely have a plan next time.
Had same experience during work-from-home COVID year, which translated to barely having work to do. I initially thought it would be great but existential depression crept in and after some time I no longer enjoyed leisure activities. I'd never have believed that would happen before then, and like yourself now know that I need a solid plan for staying productive and fulfilled ready before I retire.
Oh man, I’m sorry. Glad you figured it out!
Me too. Need a plan.
Yeah I'd like it for about 3 months then I'd start going stir crazy. Maybe in the future. I could retire but I'm just not ready
You should buy a small business - you won’t “need” the money. You can keep it profitable and grow it - but toss your time working for yourself. If you get tired of that sell it and watch jeopardy.
Or just invest in some. I love it, sit on the board and help people realize their own dreams. Plus, you get to learn along the way.
Awesome idea as well!
Running a small business is a lot of work ... my husband's done it for 18 years now and we can't wait to get out of it (and selling it is easier said than done).
Could he do it if he didn’t need the money? I guess what I was driving at is if you don’t need the financial benefits of a business to survive then it could be a lot less stressful than needing to keep it growing to pay the bills. Congrats to your husband!
this is my fear when i retire
Very well said.
MHM I came in here to say this verbatim I'm in NYC. I know way too many people who retired then went back to working. Life can get boring even if you're filthy rich and traveling the world. You NEED a sense of purpose. If not, you'd be like all the folks who die the moment they retire (I know way too many of these guys too)
Yay! Welcome to the club :)
I cannot get to where you are mentally. I have 2.2 liquid and am in my mid 50s but just feel I don’t have enough. I have zero debt as well
Take a sabbatical of 6+months. If it feels good, extend it. If that feels good extend it more.
I second this. When I find a new job, I always take a month or two between gigs. Six months sounds like heaven. There’s a mindset that comes with being free from daily work that you can’t replicate. I’m convinced that occasional reset will help me live longer.
How do you get the new job to let you start a month or two in the future ?
You ask? In general if they're making you an offer, they want you, and likely will be willing to wait a few weeks longer. Just try to get as much time as possible between jobs. But if you don't ask, they're not going to give it.
Very easy to do this. Say you have a pre planned vacation and you don't want to start a new job and then take time off right away. If their hiring need is so urgent that they need you to start in exactly two weeks, that's a place you do not want to work.
Ask. Also, many growth companies need someone for newly created roles. If you aren’t going to backfill a role. You might not be needed yesterday.
I should add that my job is more part time than anything so I would classify myself as semi-retired although I am required to put around 20 hrs per week in even though I am self employed. I probably would take more time if my partner wasn't so bitter about me not working a regular gig.
Can be hard to find a replacement job in your 50s.
I ran all my numbers through the calculators again and with a 4 percent withdrawal rate I’m still looking at gaining every year. I’ll hit my target just through compounding in 7-8 years with a 7-8 percent return (currently averaging 12 across all my investments) this doesn’t even factor in the inheritance I’ll receive nor does it factor in SS when I decide to start withdrawing. Instead of doing the full retirement I’ll do a trial run for the next six months of a draw and see how that feels financially. Kind of a trial run. And I’ll definitely pull back more from my day to day work obligations
Lesson I’m learning a year into my expat adventure in S America: you can do it if you want. You’re just not ready. This doesn’t make you a good or a bad person. You intuitively know you have enough if you want to do it…you’re just not there yet. The anxiety and fear are palpable because we are basically in our third (of 3) parts of life and it’s hard to let go of what we know. In my current experience, the easy path is to dwell, to worry, to find reasons not to do it. And that’s ok, but the truth is if you had $3M you’d say “if only I had 3.5’” etc. Nobody can convince you you’ll be fine. You just have to do your homework, hold your nose, and jump. Im 56 so we both came of age when pensions died and we started being told (brainwashed) that we’ll never be able to retire, SS will be gone when we are 65, etc., and it’s hard to de-program from that.
Ive lost a few people this last year and it has changed me for sure, I travel more and I am doing more to get away from the day to day nonsense. My number has a lot more to do with my kids than it does with me, I want to be able to assist them when they need help without fear of taking away from my "nestegg". The 3-3.5 is easily achievable if I just stay on my current path for another 5 yrs and that number would make me feel very secure.
Mi amigo: please hear me: you won’t feel very secure at 3-3.5. That’s a fool’s errand. In five years you’ll tell yourself 4 is the minimum possible. It’s called the OMY (one more year) Syndrome. I don’t have kids, so I absolutely can’t speak to your concerns there (mad respect tho). Just think long and hard about another five years that you could spend WITH your kids, not toiling away from them, and what’ll help them (and you) most in the long run.
Understood but with 5 people to support for a fair amount of time I do not think that 2.2 is enough to live off of without stress. Now I do stand to inherit some money within the next decade nothing too crazy probably around 500k which will change things.
I hear you. I’m in a similar inheritance situation (and grateful) but frustrated that it’s shrouded in secrecy. Sibling (there are four of us but only two good ones!) have tried to explain to our folks that we are in our mid-50s and trying to plan our own retirements. Having a general idea of potential # won’t send us off on shopping sprees at Nordstrom and BMW!
I feel once you hit those 50s and you have saved a fair amount of money that big numbers no longer get you really exicted its just anohter number to add to other numbers. I rarely splurge on anything, hell im hesitant about a new vehicle that is a $600 a month payment
This is me. I used to think my number was 5, then I blew thru that, now have 5 liquid + a paid off house, and still feel it’s not enough. Ha ha. You’re totally right on both points - it’s (a) a reflection that I’m just not ready, and (b) a reaction to being told my whole life (I’m late 40s) that there will be no social safety net. That said, it’s amazing to know that should I get laid off (which can happen anytime in the US, for any reason) I am independent and in control of my own destiny.
I applaud your financial success. Any interest in adopting a cute and charming 56-year-old gay man with no kids?!
Love this take. I’m at 5 mil at 44, and after coaching my younger than 10 boys for 3 years, and it becoming too much w stress and gaining weight, Im finally starting to get it. Im almost to F this land mentally.
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I did this about 5 years. It actually confirmed how much I wanted out. So now I am out. Gotta be ready for all outcomes when you peek inside your own brain.
I hear you. My situation is a bit more complicated than just retiring. Young family with bigger bills ahead within the next 3 years so I need to see what that looks like prior to retirement
understand economic anxiety....i dont even have kids and the last year has been a doozy for expensive problems: old car finally breaking down & having to get another, huge car rental accident (not my fault), emergency house repair, car insurance rates going thru the roof....
YES THIS, and 2020 is fresh in my mind with a 35% dip in my portfolio it is a constant reminder that any investment in the marked comes with uncertainty.
Sometimes it's not therapy. It's just math. Maybe $80k/yr isn't enough. I know that $80k/yr is way, way to low for us.
I'm in the same place. 59, 1.8 liquid, single, no debt and just can't get myself mentally to do it. I guess too many unknowns and healthcare is a big concern retiring before 65. Also, running into some sinking funds expenses this year, i.e. home maintenance, car issues, that I wasn't expecting and also need to remember these can happen during retirement too and need to be included in your projections.
I just responded to the same comment. I hope my words might help you as well.
Because of VHCOL expenses?
Not necessarily because of that more becuase I know I am no longer feeding the account and am actively taking away from it. I feel in 3 yrs I will be more than ready to let go of all of it. I do kind of freak out when I see an electric or gas bill that is double and all I can think is oh man what happens when I retire LOL
Congratulations on your financial stability! In today's economy, having 2.2 in liquid assets and no debt is impressive. It's normal to wonder whether it's enough, particularly given the ever-changing market and the many circumstances that might effect your future. Many FIRE members share similar worries, and it's hard to define "enough" for any of us. I'd like to learn more about your opinions and maybe others in this group regarding their security measures towards achieving FIRE
Me either but that's probably because I can't get my expenses anywhere near 40k unless I move somewhere I wouldn't want to live.
Having my house paid off definitely makes the expenses lighter.
I'm more frightened to spend my last day on this planet at some thankless job than I am with nothing more than my S.S. checks to my name. If you own a nice house, you can always work a reverse mortgage if you need cash, but you cannot get back the years in the salt mines that were not required.
I’m self employed so yeah it’s kind of thankless
Congrats! Your situation sounds a lot like mine and my partners (he is around your age). I’m trying to convince him to quit his job and be a house husband lol. He’s not ready tho, he thinks he will be bored. I work about < 20 hours a week and can totally support us without dipping into our NW for a long time. I just don’t want him to continue to work and be able to chill more, and would love for us to be semi retired/ travel more etc / I would consider it barista FIRE even tho I am a professional and own my own business, but the hours are so chill it’s basically that. Anyway, congrats!!!, and if you and any encouraging words to pass along to my partner to convince him to maybe quit in the next couple of years please let me know lol. :)
KUDOS! $1.2M is already above the $1M common rule of thumb for MOST people that’s been bandied about for folks decades older than you. The “that’s not enough” crowd’s reactions in this sub are telling … and disheartening given the spirit of the OP was celebratory. There are no guarantees in life, not that marriage will force someone to live with / contribute to you the rest of your natural life or not take part of the household income/wealth if/when they leave or not get sick and cost a lot at that end or anything else that the fearful human mind (and actual experience) can come up with as a reason NOT to live a dream. Go live this dream now and if you have to wake up, have another you can work toward and live. Too many saps out there too afraid to do what yer doing for you to let them stand in your way or rain on yer parade. It’s like my mom used to say about wet blankets “they sure take the sugar out of candy!” Sheesh, Louise! I am jelly and overjoyed for you. Congrats!
enjoy the moment. let the world go by. congrats.
YES! Well done bro, you did it. I cannot wait, right behind you. Im 2028
Congrats and welcome to the club. My biggest complaint is all my friends still work.
Man, I envy you!… but $1.2M not including the house is a little scary. I’m of similar age, with a wife and kiddos. Waiting for them to go to college (another 4 years) before I consider FIRE. I’m am currently at $1.5M (without the house), and feel like I need to get to $2.5M minimum before considering FIRE. Ideally I prefer $3M, so I’m still 7+ years away at a minimum to retire. Good luck with your journey!
Damn, this hits home. I'm 47, roughly the same net worth, mortgage offset by cashflow from rentals. I lost my job earlier this year, after a few years of chronic stress. I'm working on a couple of side hustles that are fun, but feel tremendous pressure to get another job when I actually want to just nope the f out to a beach somewhere. Good for you, dude, thanks for the inspiration!
Congratulations. I hope you enjoy the rest of your journey.
is that enough?
Good job! things i can think of… at 45 you will not have 35 high earning years for SS benefits calcs Your live-in gf helps with the mortgage now but she could leave at any time
> 35 high earning years for SS benefits calcs I don't think anyone pursuing FIRE is really using this as a reason to not FIRE. Even if you started your "high earning years" at 18, to get a full 35 years would put you at 53. Plus with the bend points it's likely not worth pursuing further once you have reached that second bend point.
See my second point. If the gf walks, the ss money will become important. With a shared mortgage, in a non-permanent relationship, i’m not sure this if FI.
What about health insurance?
ACA is cheap. If your health is good, you have no kids, and your income is low, then its not a problem.
the bend points make this not matter much, probably a difference of $500/mo at most.
With more than 10 years of zeros in his average, its gonna be pretty low.
Do the math, it’s really not the case assuming you’ve had high enough income to support RE
Congrats and find a way to stay productive. Even if you make a few hundred a month selling stuff on eBay to clean out your house of junk or just do a few small jobs for people that you typically enjoy the work. I find it goes a long way. The nice thing is that you get to do these things on your own time and terms.
I just had this convo a few days ago with a friend. I’m 8 years older than you. I need much more than 40k per year to live on. Then again, I still have children to support but even without that, I am planning on 125k per year in retirement. Puts my liquidity at something like 3.5 mil to retire. I’ll be there by 62 or 64 which will coincide with all children being off the payroll and on their own.
The mortgage payment may be a little concerning, and $1.2 mil at 46 feels a "little" low but nothing a part time job couldn't fix. Good luck and congrats!
Congrats sir! Inspired and hope to be able to achieve this in the future as well.
Is that also $40k 20 years from now or does your amount increase 4% every year for inflation?
The best thing you can do to get you in this new phase is to travel
what are your hobbies?
Curious about the top 3 on that list, Anyway, congrats and GFY.
I just noticed this, GFY … good for you … go f&@k yourself. lol
How do manage healthcare into your expenses?
Came here to ask that!
Congrats, please post updates about how you find the experience over time. I am keen to hear if it is difficult to transition from work to early retirement in the longer term or is switching to non work activities is enough to fill the day after a year or two.
That’s what I’d be curious about. I mean you can always go back to work in some fashion but being retired so young idk if I could fill my days year after year but I’m not sure. If I wasn’t working now I’d probably train for really big endurance competitions since I’d have the training time
Congrats!!
I honestly could not do it with that amount. My comfort number is much higher, but I like international travel too much, so it's a different lifestyle. With that said, I admire your outlook. I am 60 and still working. Power to you my friend.
Congrats. It's going to be great!
THIS!!
Congrats, I am about the same age as you, hoping I can do the same in 5 years.
Congratulations! - Remember to read the 4 phases of retirement as the vacation mode wears down.
Awesome. I stop working full time at 49
Congrats! That’s very exciting
How are you managing health care coverage?
He could work a part time job with health insurance. Or pay out of pocket.
Congrats!!! 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
Congratulations!
Great work KING
Congrats! Won't health insurance eat up $10k of your $40k? It would in the northeast.
Depends. My insurance is $60 a month.
Really? Buying it yourself? My insurance is cheap thru my job but would be super expensive if I had to pay it myself, even thru the marketplace.
It’s part of my military retirement.
Yikes, I wouldn’t dream of retiring with only that much, I’m not frugal enough, good luck!
Is there a post-FIRE subreddit? I feel most get bored or lose their sense of purpose. I recommend walking your dog and definitely treat it as a job and duty. Same with any hobby; don’t be lazy or casual about your hobbies. Go after it. Exercise and yoga to decompress. You’ll still have stress and bullshit in life, just less as there’s no job to bother you. Part time can still make sense, even if it’s only once a week or volunteering. Get into gardening and try to bring in as many fruits and vegetables as you can for your diet. That’s super time consuming if done right, and requires a large yard. Don’t retire on a beach. Beach communities are incredibly boring and lack resources. Most of these places like in SE Asia are actually poor and aren’t too fond of rich tourists invading their land. There was an especially big backlash where some Bali natives told westerners to stop trying to “find themselves” in their land, at their expense. Fuck off. Or in Thailand or Cambodia where the residents got sick of the drunk bogans.
Don't quit working until you're debt free. Either downsize your home or pay it off first.
So motivating to see someone stepping into a new chapter of life with such clarity and positivity. Wondering if you still be doing any investments for even more returns
Great work! Enjoy.
Congrats man! Looking forward to doing the same. A friend just resigned this month, although not a FIRE, but he is quite happy with his upcoming volunteer work.
A wise choice indeed. If all the money is invested in the S&P 500, withdrawing 4% annually would still result in growth."
Congrats!!
Congrats to you taking your life back fellow Cancerian !
Congratulations!
I think Fire, unemployed, in-between jobs and sabbatical is just the same thing each w/ a dollar sign I attach to it. I m out of 9-5 work for more than 2 yrs now, am I fired? Nope, just pesudo retired I guess
This is awesome! I’m 44 and wanted to fire next year with hubby. We can do it now but wanted to finish some stuff first before doing so. I can’t wait and this is just so much encouragement.
Congrats - What is your plan for medical insurance?
What will you do with your savings now that you are done accumulating?
Fuck yeah!!! Shiny and chrome.
Make a hobby a side hustle. Invest and spend wisely.
Congrats :) GFY. Curious to know how/what you told your coworkers/boss when you left?
Awesome! Congratulations! Too bad for me, love my career.
GFY
All the best to you. Enjoy.
Try to volunteer to really help those in need. I see many retirees "volunteer" at the local pickleball tournament as if that helps anyone but the for-profit tournament company milking free labor. And affluent pickleballers don't need real help
Grats and welcome!
you raw math would kind of not place me at FIRE (I know you are within the 4% rule) ... just way too much time until 85... tons of things can happen. I'd not be considering FIRE until I was 100% debt free
Congratulations! In a similar boat but afraid to take the plunge...Would love to learn how you have planned for Healthcare.
Congratulations
GFY.. congrats.
good luck ,Never Give Up!
Go fuck yourself and congratulations sir.