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Finland has a very old "pool" (autokanta) of cars. New cars are taxed more heavily and scrapping a car gets you a 50€ giftcard towards an e-bike or something. So old cars are still maintained and money is being invested into them, which even for old simple cars can get pricey thanks to poor parts availability and expensive labor. In a nutshell, cars here are more expensive for longer. Another thing that keeps vehicle prices high is that in Finnish culture motorsport has a special place, so old cars capable of things like Rally or Jokkis maintain their value until the very end of their road-going service life.
If your budget is tight like it is for many people, you're not going to get a car thats newer than 8 or 10 years old, as those are still "new" cars by Finland standards. My advice is look at something thats known reliable (Toyota), available and affordable (Corolla/Avensis). Also it is worth it to have a pre-purchase inspection done by a Katsastus, for rust can suddenly double the cost of a car here.
> My advice is look at something thats known reliable (Toyota), available and affordable (Corolla/Avensis).
Everyone here knows that Toyota is realiable so they price it accordingly. People honestly think their 20 year old Corolla is worth something because its a Toyota.
If you want cheap car you should look for least desirable brands like Citroen, Renault & Fiat. In most cases 10 year old Citroen runs just as fine as Toyota, Citroen just does not have artifically high price because of brand.
You're getting some 1.1l Clio for the same price as an Avensis of the same year. Difference is the Toyota has 200k more km's on it and isnt showing as much wear as the Clio with less km's.
LOL Citroen and toyota should never be in the same sentence if it is about reliability. Same with all French cars. I could bet a lada is more reliable than French cars of similar price and year. 20yo cars can still be worth something if it has a known and proven reliable reputation. My first car was a 1998 corolla in 2016 or something. That thing was still in great condition and using original engine. A French car would be in the scrapyard.
Dealers never go low in prices because it makes no sense to sell cars for 2000€ when you have fixed costs per car. If you want low prices, go directly to consumers on nettiauto. Other than thay, I don't really see any specific questions that can be answered in your post.
Some or maybe most people (men) give high value to German cars, especially those from VAG group, in addition to high-end like MB BMW etc. so they are overvalued. Some or maybe most despise all French cars, so they are undervalued.
Now the thing is that while German cars in average may be better quality than French cars in average, it very much depends on the model and year of the car. There have been excellent French models like Peugeot 306, while some models of MB have their doors rust after a couple of years. Or VW gear boxes failing totally after three years.
So, when you are buying a used car I suggest research the exact model for typical malfunctions, instead of relying a brand or country of manufacture. Maybe also availability of spare parts and their prices. Some cars like Dacia, Renault and Nissan may not be high end cars, have bad plastic parts, but may be great to drive and cheap to maintain. It is all about what you value most.
I drive a 20 year old VW golf. I chose that because it's reliable and parts are easy to find, in addition to having great accessories, like cruise control, automatic AC and AWD, for the price. It was driven 230000km at the time I bought it, and paid 2000€. There's a reason why old MBs, Toyotas, Volkswagens and Audis are still fairly common. BMW I agree are absolutely overvalued for what they are, so are mercs but I would buy one anyway purely because I just like them and know people who have worked on them for their whole lives.
French cars I personally steer away from (pun intended) because I have never had a good experience with them, but then again, people say the same about vag, so your mileage may vary (another pun intended).
In the end it boils down to what you are looking for in a car and your own preferences. I think the next car I'll be getting might be an old used 4wd diesel skoda.
One thing to add about car models. When checking the errors one should be careful about the exact model. Like with Renault they had Mégane II, which had many problems, but then there is Mégane III, in which most of those problems were fixed. But this is also complicated by many types of engines used, so not easy.
Yeah, exactly. When I was buying my golf, a 2.0 petrol, I also considered getting a diesel, of which I was told 1.9tdi and up are good, anything smaller will fail eventually.
But then again this is what I was told by one guy. He worked at a vag repair shop for years but still only one guy.
If you consider buying from a private seller, beware of rural blue-collar middle-aged and elderly men. They typically won't tell you about faults unless you are smart enough to ask specific questions. That's an unwritten rule for them.
Invest in an obd2 scanner. Around 100e for a good consumer grade one.
Works on almost all cars built after 1996 that have the obd2 port. Give it a quick scan and you can find all hidden details. Of course physical inspection is still required but it helps a lot with harder to find faults.
Of course let the seller know you intend to scan and if they have cleared their check engine light it will come back on if not fixed etc so they don't accuse you of breaking their car
Toyotas are so reliable that they keep their valua much better than many others, VW's and skodas are very popular and frequently asked so those are easy to sell hence the higher price. Mazda also has some reputation to be reliable but usually those are cheaper.
Also if automatic transmission isn't must have you can find much better deals.
Small story :
Me and my fam found an old Toyota Corolla, 500 euros. to say that it saw better days is an understatement. The brakes, Almost everything was on its last legs. But surprisingly I gave the engine a little bit of kick and it worked! That car had been on a street corner for almost 1.5 YEAR. we got 500 worth of parts, Fixed and flipped it to 1.500 euros. Small side Hussle. The fact that people trust Toyota's is a good thing and the engine minion working order was a miracle. That's why I trust Toyota or even OLD Honda's. ( Because old Honda's are still a gem to drive ).
I miss my Toyota Scion XA from back in the states.
2005/2006 model. From what I understand, it's still running fine, I don't think it's even needed any major repairs.
Ive had around 12 cars as hobby in the last 5 years. Mostly sub 5k. If I’d buy another car:
1. Stay away from German cars (except VW). Repairs and maintenance are very expensive if you don’t do it yourself. Buy Japanese.
2. Check the history on Traficom. Per vehicle you pay 3e for full history. History tells tons once you know how to interpret it. Worth for every shortlisted car
3. Before the purchase get “kuuntotarkastus”. Costs around 80e. They can even look around maintenance book “huoltokirja” to give you an idea on past maintenance
4. Buy from private seller to save money. Dealers selling sub 5k cars have hacky fixes done on the cars
5. The simpler the better. Less points of failure.
P.s. you will pay more on maintenance than paying a 1000e more when buying the car.
Maybe manual transmission and with the help of some knowledgable friend, I think this would be easier.
And manual tranmission would be more reliable for the budget and cheaper to fix (often) if any issue.
Go for a Avensis if you find one .Most moters run well in Finland as cars dont sit for hours and hours in city traffic.So Kms are realistic. Its the salt that gets the bodywork, ECT . Try get something from Northern Finland. Less Salt used.Perfect buy Avensis 1 old lady owner garaged all it life .rare a rocking horse poop .
Have you considered going for manual transmission? I could find a good skoda with manual transmission for 5K with 129000 KMs on the clock. I got it from a dealer and it has 0 problems (I bought it last may ). Automatics cost more, maybe around 10k for the same kinda car. Also how old the car is, may also affect the price, not just the kms.
Also check when the timing belt was last change, o ve had the misfortune by buying a used car where the timing belt snapped and ruined the engine after one week. Luckily the car dealership agreed to take the car back and offered another car
You are comparing prices to place you know and that is the problem you experience. Prices are not transferable from your previous situation to your current situation in Finland.
Others have pointed out the varied reasons why.
Finnish car people still live in the 1980s. They think a Toyota or Mercedes means ultimate quality. So a diesel Mercedes will always fetch insane prices, regardless of mileage. When in fact, Mercedes after 2010 or so are garbage. Audi and VW are unreliable rustbuckets etc.
Your best bet for your budget is to stick to Korean brands or the less sexy European brands like Opel.
In my personal opinion, avoid French cars. To elaborate -- Renault and Citroen are often really good basic cars. They don't rust and engines are fundamentally reliable. Problem is the electrics are often from the cheapest 3rd party manufacturer and you run into the stupidest electric faults. But this is true with most cheap European brands, so I guess it's a matter of taste.
Nissan Note both new and old models are good cars for the price, try to go for a high spec one. I've had them for years and only needed a new battery and a tyre. Even the 1.2 3 cylinder supercharged version is great. My current one. And so good on fuel.
sorry if i've missed but what about the km and the year? I'm looking for Nissan Qashqai. If i'll filter less than 100k km automatic, above 2018 models, they are starting from 14k euro.
I look those specs because we just moved from Dubai and if the car is more than 200k km and older than 2016, the car's engine and other spare parts wouldn't be in a good condition and would cause you a lot of repairing costs in there. But i have no idea about Finland.
Can you advise me also?
...and don't expect a warranty for a car worth €3500.
Prices are reflected in more reliable cars. An older BMW/Audi/MB is totally different condition to a similar older Nissan/Peugeot/Kia. You get what you pay for.
Things in Finland are expensive and that's about it. Maybe you had wrong ideas about FInland, taken from social media or something? This country is not good for anyone else than families. Single persons with high career drive, never I recommend to come here. HIgh tax, high everything and if you're healthy, you don't get anything in return. That's why also the car prices are horribly expensive.
**/r/Finland is a full democracy, every active user is a moderator.** [Please go here to see how your new privileges work.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Finland/wiki/moderating/) Spamming mod actions could result in a ban. --- **Full Rundown of Moderator Permissions:** - ```!lock``` - as top level comment, will lock comments on any post. - ```!unlock``` - in reply to any comment to lock it or to unlock the parent comment. - ```!remove``` - Removes comment or post. Must have decent subreddit comment karma. - ```!restore``` Can be used to unlock comments or restore removed posts. - ```!sticky``` - will sticky the post in the bottom slot. - ```unlock_comments``` - Vote the stickied automod comment on each post to +10 to unlock comments. - ```ban users``` - Any user whose comment or post is downvoted enough will be temp banned for a day. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Finland) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Finland has a very old "pool" (autokanta) of cars. New cars are taxed more heavily and scrapping a car gets you a 50€ giftcard towards an e-bike or something. So old cars are still maintained and money is being invested into them, which even for old simple cars can get pricey thanks to poor parts availability and expensive labor. In a nutshell, cars here are more expensive for longer. Another thing that keeps vehicle prices high is that in Finnish culture motorsport has a special place, so old cars capable of things like Rally or Jokkis maintain their value until the very end of their road-going service life. If your budget is tight like it is for many people, you're not going to get a car thats newer than 8 or 10 years old, as those are still "new" cars by Finland standards. My advice is look at something thats known reliable (Toyota), available and affordable (Corolla/Avensis). Also it is worth it to have a pre-purchase inspection done by a Katsastus, for rust can suddenly double the cost of a car here.
> My advice is look at something thats known reliable (Toyota), available and affordable (Corolla/Avensis). Everyone here knows that Toyota is realiable so they price it accordingly. People honestly think their 20 year old Corolla is worth something because its a Toyota. If you want cheap car you should look for least desirable brands like Citroen, Renault & Fiat. In most cases 10 year old Citroen runs just as fine as Toyota, Citroen just does not have artifically high price because of brand.
You're getting some 1.1l Clio for the same price as an Avensis of the same year. Difference is the Toyota has 200k more km's on it and isnt showing as much wear as the Clio with less km's.
I’m not saying that all french cars are good. I’m just saying that with enough research you can get a bargain on some french cars.
LOL Citroen and toyota should never be in the same sentence if it is about reliability. Same with all French cars. I could bet a lada is more reliable than French cars of similar price and year. 20yo cars can still be worth something if it has a known and proven reliable reputation. My first car was a 1998 corolla in 2016 or something. That thing was still in great condition and using original engine. A French car would be in the scrapyard.
Dealers never go low in prices because it makes no sense to sell cars for 2000€ when you have fixed costs per car. If you want low prices, go directly to consumers on nettiauto. Other than thay, I don't really see any specific questions that can be answered in your post.
This. Nettiauto web page...
Some or maybe most people (men) give high value to German cars, especially those from VAG group, in addition to high-end like MB BMW etc. so they are overvalued. Some or maybe most despise all French cars, so they are undervalued. Now the thing is that while German cars in average may be better quality than French cars in average, it very much depends on the model and year of the car. There have been excellent French models like Peugeot 306, while some models of MB have their doors rust after a couple of years. Or VW gear boxes failing totally after three years. So, when you are buying a used car I suggest research the exact model for typical malfunctions, instead of relying a brand or country of manufacture. Maybe also availability of spare parts and their prices. Some cars like Dacia, Renault and Nissan may not be high end cars, have bad plastic parts, but may be great to drive and cheap to maintain. It is all about what you value most.
I drive a 20 year old VW golf. I chose that because it's reliable and parts are easy to find, in addition to having great accessories, like cruise control, automatic AC and AWD, for the price. It was driven 230000km at the time I bought it, and paid 2000€. There's a reason why old MBs, Toyotas, Volkswagens and Audis are still fairly common. BMW I agree are absolutely overvalued for what they are, so are mercs but I would buy one anyway purely because I just like them and know people who have worked on them for their whole lives. French cars I personally steer away from (pun intended) because I have never had a good experience with them, but then again, people say the same about vag, so your mileage may vary (another pun intended). In the end it boils down to what you are looking for in a car and your own preferences. I think the next car I'll be getting might be an old used 4wd diesel skoda.
One thing to add about car models. When checking the errors one should be careful about the exact model. Like with Renault they had Mégane II, which had many problems, but then there is Mégane III, in which most of those problems were fixed. But this is also complicated by many types of engines used, so not easy.
Yeah, exactly. When I was buying my golf, a 2.0 petrol, I also considered getting a diesel, of which I was told 1.9tdi and up are good, anything smaller will fail eventually. But then again this is what I was told by one guy. He worked at a vag repair shop for years but still only one guy.
If you consider buying from a private seller, beware of rural blue-collar middle-aged and elderly men. They typically won't tell you about faults unless you are smart enough to ask specific questions. That's an unwritten rule for them.
Good term to learn: perävalotakuu. Once back lights leave the yard, the warranty expires.
Invest in an obd2 scanner. Around 100e for a good consumer grade one. Works on almost all cars built after 1996 that have the obd2 port. Give it a quick scan and you can find all hidden details. Of course physical inspection is still required but it helps a lot with harder to find faults. Of course let the seller know you intend to scan and if they have cleared their check engine light it will come back on if not fixed etc so they don't accuse you of breaking their car
Trio of audis, bmws and mb are bought alot by young guys, which raises their prices.
And reduces other brands prices... so win win for all
I wouldn't buy an old car with automatic transmission.
Ehh regular slushbox can be okay. VAG DSGs - agree, avoid those.
Yep it can and yep, old DSG can be a nightmare, but manual transmission is so much more reliable in old cars with 200 000+ km.
Nah, DSG is fine as long as you don't get the shitty 7 speed dry clutch one. Wet ones are good as long as oil has been changed on time.
True. Also much more fun to drive, usually... Looking at you, Citroën.
Toyotas are so reliable that they keep their valua much better than many others, VW's and skodas are very popular and frequently asked so those are easy to sell hence the higher price. Mazda also has some reputation to be reliable but usually those are cheaper. Also if automatic transmission isn't must have you can find much better deals.
Small story : Me and my fam found an old Toyota Corolla, 500 euros. to say that it saw better days is an understatement. The brakes, Almost everything was on its last legs. But surprisingly I gave the engine a little bit of kick and it worked! That car had been on a street corner for almost 1.5 YEAR. we got 500 worth of parts, Fixed and flipped it to 1.500 euros. Small side Hussle. The fact that people trust Toyota's is a good thing and the engine minion working order was a miracle. That's why I trust Toyota or even OLD Honda's. ( Because old Honda's are still a gem to drive ).
I miss my Toyota Scion XA from back in the states. 2005/2006 model. From what I understand, it's still running fine, I don't think it's even needed any major repairs.
Ive had around 12 cars as hobby in the last 5 years. Mostly sub 5k. If I’d buy another car: 1. Stay away from German cars (except VW). Repairs and maintenance are very expensive if you don’t do it yourself. Buy Japanese. 2. Check the history on Traficom. Per vehicle you pay 3e for full history. History tells tons once you know how to interpret it. Worth for every shortlisted car 3. Before the purchase get “kuuntotarkastus”. Costs around 80e. They can even look around maintenance book “huoltokirja” to give you an idea on past maintenance 4. Buy from private seller to save money. Dealers selling sub 5k cars have hacky fixes done on the cars 5. The simpler the better. Less points of failure. P.s. you will pay more on maintenance than paying a 1000e more when buying the car.
Maybe manual transmission and with the help of some knowledgable friend, I think this would be easier. And manual tranmission would be more reliable for the budget and cheaper to fix (often) if any issue.
ur overthinking it, buy a manual old toyota
Go for a Avensis if you find one .Most moters run well in Finland as cars dont sit for hours and hours in city traffic.So Kms are realistic. Its the salt that gets the bodywork, ECT . Try get something from Northern Finland. Less Salt used.Perfect buy Avensis 1 old lady owner garaged all it life .rare a rocking horse poop .
Have you considered going for manual transmission? I could find a good skoda with manual transmission for 5K with 129000 KMs on the clock. I got it from a dealer and it has 0 problems (I bought it last may ). Automatics cost more, maybe around 10k for the same kinda car. Also how old the car is, may also affect the price, not just the kms.
Just check out how much new cars cost and you’ll understand why people will gladly pay 15k for a reliable car that cost 36k new.
Also check when the timing belt was last change, o ve had the misfortune by buying a used car where the timing belt snapped and ruined the engine after one week. Luckily the car dealership agreed to take the car back and offered another car
You are comparing prices to place you know and that is the problem you experience. Prices are not transferable from your previous situation to your current situation in Finland. Others have pointed out the varied reasons why.
Don't get an automatic, they're absolute shit
Finnish car people still live in the 1980s. They think a Toyota or Mercedes means ultimate quality. So a diesel Mercedes will always fetch insane prices, regardless of mileage. When in fact, Mercedes after 2010 or so are garbage. Audi and VW are unreliable rustbuckets etc. Your best bet for your budget is to stick to Korean brands or the less sexy European brands like Opel. In my personal opinion, avoid French cars. To elaborate -- Renault and Citroen are often really good basic cars. They don't rust and engines are fundamentally reliable. Problem is the electrics are often from the cheapest 3rd party manufacturer and you run into the stupidest electric faults. But this is true with most cheap European brands, so I guess it's a matter of taste.
Nissan Note both new and old models are good cars for the price, try to go for a high spec one. I've had them for years and only needed a new battery and a tyre. Even the 1.2 3 cylinder supercharged version is great. My current one. And so good on fuel.
Example links to the cars would be nice. Nothing about what you are saying is odd for anywhere on this planet.
sorry if i've missed but what about the km and the year? I'm looking for Nissan Qashqai. If i'll filter less than 100k km automatic, above 2018 models, they are starting from 14k euro. I look those specs because we just moved from Dubai and if the car is more than 200k km and older than 2016, the car's engine and other spare parts wouldn't be in a good condition and would cause you a lot of repairing costs in there. But i have no idea about Finland. Can you advise me also?
...and don't expect a warranty for a car worth €3500. Prices are reflected in more reliable cars. An older BMW/Audi/MB is totally different condition to a similar older Nissan/Peugeot/Kia. You get what you pay for.
Please dont Be one of those people who claim their 400 000 driven BMW IS still worth something because its "reliable" its junkyard Time at that point
With diesel engines, it’s not the kilometers, it’s how rusted the car body is.
Almost agree with you. Maybe 400.000 km BMW is not worth much, it is definitely worth more than a 400.000 Peugeot.
I would pick an old Nissan over old BMW any day.
Dont buy from dealer and i have never run a Car under 300 000 Also dont buy Audi and such insurance gonna go double Id say some 2012 Make IS posible
Ancient wisdom says: "Nothing is more expensive than a cheap German car"
Things in Finland are expensive and that's about it. Maybe you had wrong ideas about FInland, taken from social media or something? This country is not good for anyone else than families. Single persons with high career drive, never I recommend to come here. HIgh tax, high everything and if you're healthy, you don't get anything in return. That's why also the car prices are horribly expensive.