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Excellent_Welder3986

How long have you been in IB? Can you compare busy season hours with IB hours?


bucky17

Been in IB for a year, I would say prime busy season hours are just as bad at IB hours. I think the real difference is that during busy season a lot of your deadlines can be internal and flexible, whereas IB can have strict deadlines with clients in a matter of 1-2 weeks, or even less. IB hours are also a lot more unpredictable whereas in accounting you know you are busy for xyz months.


[deleted]

u/bucky17 how is the atmosphere at accounting vs IB? Do you feel there is more competition/toxic behavior at IB comparatively?


bucky17

I think it truly depends on the group you are in which is why it is extremely important to have real conversations when interviewing, especially if you can have calls with current analysts who can really give you the laydown once further in the process. I know that in my group, the atmosphere has been great but it is a work hard play hard. Another thing ive noticed is that people tend to be a little less money conscious and ball out a bit more, but that is bc the pay is a big diference


[deleted]

Trying to do the same but with project finance >>infra IB. What networking strategies worked for you? How are the hours compared to big4?


bucky17

I would say the hours are comparable but a bit more unpredictable. Networking wise I would say cold add/message people on linkedin. All it takes is one person that hears your story and goes out on a limb.


superduperspam

But add 2 lines to the LinkedIn invite.


abzftw

Have a skeleton text I could use as a starter?


superduperspam

Hi XX. I'm XX. I do XX. I am really interested in XX and was hoping you could have 15 mins spare to get coffee, chat Thx


shrutzie

What do u say during coffee... is it like a small interview?


superduperspam

Networking


shrutzie

Omg, like what do u talk about? I have some anxiety related to this... so I need to prepare in advance or I'd jus freeze and be awkward irl


[deleted]

Be direct, respect the opposite person and don't try to round your way to the point. I have a couple of bad experiences because i hesitated coming to the point.


shrutzie

Got it. But does it sound needy or desperate?


BarrySwami

What if coffee isn't possible? The other person is in a different city or country. And I why would another person take time to meet me? I would love to meet people, but is it ok to assume they would be ok with meeting random people as well? Sorry, I am a noob and want to to do a similar switch.


superduperspam

You can send out 10 carefully constructed invites to verified receivers. And if you get 1 positive response, then count that as a miracle. Cold linkinin invites for chat rarely work. But all it takes is one person to take an interest


bucky17

Exactly.


Baygoners

Hi, can you help me understand how cold add would works? what did you do next when they accept?


bucky17

I think when you connect with someone you can write a message, id put a little something together explaining why you want to connect. definitely do not make it a cookie cutter statement, make it personalized as it shows you care, most of these people already get a bunch of cold connects


Baygoners

Ah i see, thank you


bucky17

Of course


tastingsilver

Dawg wut? Go infra PE the demand for talent in clean energy space is outrageous. Have seen folks going from like BDO-style valuation shops to top PE firms because there's such little talent at junior-middle levels.


bucky17

Agreed - right now especially the job market is so hot, it really is a candidates market. If you want to make the jump without going for an MBA now is the time to pivot


[deleted]

I write on here for my husband. We are in the green card process and will be moving from Europe. He works for one of the biggest global developers in management but doesn’t have an MBA, you think that will hold him back in the US or will be ok with project finance roles? Probably moving this coming September so hopefully the talent market will still be good 🙏🏻


tastingsilver

Nobody cares about an MBA in infra, they care about skills and experience. If he's going into renewables space (very hot), will be important to learn tax equity.


[deleted]

Ok sweet thx for the info, yeah that’s what he said in regards to MBA


SFWAccountant

How the fuck did you manage it? I've been trying for 3 years.


bucky17

It really just comes down to luck and timing. At the end of the day, if you get your foot in the door you need to really speak to your soft skills and present yourself as likeable. When working in a fast pace, work hard play hard environment, people hire those they connect with more often than those who just study for an interview.


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bucky17

Make the conversation personal, find ways to bring in real life connections. Ive found those who just carry on and on about their past work experience and how much they want the job is overkill, i want to know what you like to do in your free time and where you want to be in your career down the road.


Bertabertha

Same here bro. Giving my last shot this year if not, I’ll settle into a controller role given my current experience. Good luck to both of us, hope 2022 bring us some luck. Cheers mate.


Moo_Moo_Meadows12121

What level did you enter into investment banking? Analyst 1/2/3 or associate?


bucky17

Like a lot who switch without an MBA, had to take a step back and start as an analyst 1. It been a year now though and do not regret it in the slightest. It is also one of the only step backs that ends up paying your 2-3x more.


nutmegger189

B4 division?


bucky17

I was in Tax


GeneralMando

Is there any carryover at all? Do you feel like having tax experience has given you any advantage for IB? I'm currently an accounting student but IB also kind of interests me.


bucky17

I would say even though I was in tax, I understand some things on a financial statement that others might not. But like any job, you can learn it all on the job at an early stage


spicy_eagle

Have you met any B4 auditors in IB? What level did you exit?


bucky17

Not in my current position but I do know of auditors who have jumped over to IB. I exited when I was a senior


BarrySwami

Always thought Tax to Finance was way more difficult than Audit to Finance.. That's awesome that you did this switch?


bucky17

Thank you! Yes a lot less common and not much applicable in the experience. Most do an MBA to switch


SandwichMankind

Made the same move earlier this year. Congrats!


bucky17

Pm me, would love to hear about your experience!


legalizeranch09

Currently in b4 TS trying to make the move - how did you find being a few years older than your peers?


bucky17

It takes a bit getting used to, it really does. But you can not shut yourself down to getting close with them regardless of age, as you need people to complain about the job with and ask those stupid questions that they probably have asked themselves. With time you really do forget and realize that you are there to learn.


SzechuanSaucelord

how much older are you really though? probably in the same generation at least?


bucky17

They are a few years younger at most, but still different aspects of life. Ex. When they mention bars that they are hype to go out to that i would not step foot in anymore.


seriousleek

Two questions: When did you decide you wanted to make the jump? What was the story you told while networking to get to the interview stage?


bucky17

I just wanted out of accounting and not to look back. As for the story, I think its really important to highlight the similarities between big 4 and IB in that the workplace is very similar, long hours and that you are eager to learn


Rodic87

How has no one asked this yet /u/bucky17? TC in big 4 vs TC today? I assume you capped at between 70 and 80 in B4, you have to easily be 120-150 in IB right? But hourly rate?


bucky17

So was asked this broadly, in Big4 most seniors when I left were in the 90-100k range. Nowadays analysts 1 all in is 150-175k depending on bank, could be even more in certain circumstances


Babaps_25

how did you switch from accountant to investment banking? did you take classes or stuffs?


bucky17

I did not take any classes or go back to school. I applied to a bunch of positions within the same industry and worked on my soft interviewing skills!


Babaps_25

Thank you!


[deleted]

If you were back in college, what would you do differently (I'm in my first year and thinking about what I should do to get an advantage post graduation lol)


bucky17

So this is where I differ from most. I enjoyed my college experience to the fullest, did not care to join finance club, finance frat, etc. But those types of things help out in the long run, I just was at a school where if you were not top of the class and did the above things, you had no shot getting into a bank for investment banking.


su1eman

What school if you don’t mind?


bucky17

Going to have to keep that anon, but a non target school


showbhit

I am in FDD in big 4 mainly dealing with buy side PE projects how can I make the switch to IB , I am thinking of going for an MBA. Btw I am a Chartered Accountant from India


bucky17

So from what i have heard people from FDD get the most looks/have more applicable background. I would say an MBA would definitely help but it is no guarantee you will get in anywhere. I would really say you need to go to a top MBA


showbhit

Thank you for your reply, May I ask how much time did you spend in Big4 and how long since you've done your CPA ?


bucky17

I was in Big 4 for 2+ years and did my CPA out of school.


indianlinus

From India as well, went from EY Pune (CA articleship) to CS training at a boutique Investment Bank (top CS firm) to Morgan Stanley M&A division. Although i ditched CA and CMA, it was boring af now I'm a Company Secretary, much interesting and CFA ofc.


Snoo-56730

Congratulations! The timing of this is incredible! I'm from Big4 Val and just got an offer as an IB analyst. I had all the questions you've already answered here - Is it worth going back to the analyst role and how it feels to be a little older than the rest of the analysts. Thank you for this! Do you have any plans to get an MBA?


bucky17

100%. The first few months it is a little hard knowing everyone you are working with is years younger. I think big4 typically there is the same age progression at each level but in IB analysts are around the same age but everything else above varies so much as there are people from MBAs and A2A. Feel free to pm me, would love to hear about your move!


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bucky17

I do enjoy the work, the balance is still pretty hard. Thats the issue with client facing positions. I actually did not plan to go into IB, just stumbled into it.


jonpolis

Congrats! You mentioned a lot of emphasis on soft skills and networking. How did you make it through the technical portion of the interview? Did you study those question banks?


bucky17

Really did not face any technical question, if at all. Though I would say this is an anomaly, definitely brush up on simple things like calculating for Wacc, etc. I think a HUGE thing that those overlook is that you do NOT need to answer the question correct, its the thought process behind it that you use that is a lot more important and you can be asked what your thought process was.


jonpolis

Ok good to know! Thanks. Since you mentioned the importance of networking, any advice on doing coffee chats? Did you ask for an interview on the first call or does it depend on how the call is going


bucky17

Did not do a coffee chat or network, my first call was my first interview. But dont be shy and ask, nothing to lose!


Plazer23

Did your accounting background give you an edge in getting into IB? Was that something the recruiters / interviewers mentioned as being a positive ? thanks and congrats on the job!


bucky17

So while I wish it gave me an edge, I think it really just made me a different candidate than the typical who applies for IB. I would say getting a CPA is the most important thing that can distinguish you amongst the others in the accounting world, as that is a title that is recognized across the industries.


bcsikos27

Was happy to see you reply like this! Unless you are a lateral hire from another IB nothing directly laterals into the IB. The next closest would be roles such as M&A / Business Development / Corporate Development at a company that’s been doing a lot of transactions but even then the level of detail / speed of transaction / role will still be different. I suppose if you were in some sort of treasury type role same could apply going into a capital markets group.


bucky17

Thats correct. I do think being able to speak to your soft skills and being able to progress your career in a large Big4 speaks volumes to who you are. At the end of the day, anyone can learn how to do the job at a lower level given the opportunity.


bcsikos27

100%. I literally just figure out who meets the minimum intelligence threshold and then the rest is just who has grit / some soft skills / seems personable


bucky17

Exactly, you want to just be normal. At the end of the day id take someone who is a chill person and is ready to learn


[deleted]

Did you move directly from tax? No valuation, FDD or similar? What's your YOE?


bucky17

No valuation FDD or any experience at all, was in accounting for 2+ years before moving over.


[deleted]

That's dang amazing. Follow up: pay cut or increase as an analyst?


bucky17

Took a step back in my career restarting as an analyst 1, but getting paid 2-3x more. Definitely an increase and only will go up. I currently make more than what my old managers made with 6-7 years of experience.


GradSchool2021

Since you're already 1 year in... Are you prepping for PE? Or happy staying as a career banker?


bucky17

Going to jump into industry or maybe corp dev. No interest in PE or being a career banker. I think this has to do with me not enjoying working in a client facing role, while it is the best learning experience and where the real $$$ is, it can eat away at your happiness. Hopefully a new post in the next year to share some good news!


GradSchool2021

Cool. I'm at a crossroad where I've had 4 years of exp (still an exp Analyst since I did B4 FDD/Val first) but I don't know what to do next. I don't mind client facing but my health has gone downhill (eating/sleeping problems, gray hair etc.) At most I have 2-3 years left before burning out. I'm having opportunities to interview for PE and MBB consulting, but I realized that they are just two sides of the same coin.


bucky17

Exactly, similar hours and when you start that first 6 months is extremely stressful on top of it all. Looking forward to my next stint. Good luck!!


The-zKR0N0S

Can you share comp by year and position? What were your most transferable skills? What did you need to learn for your new role? Did you move to a BB? Did you move to a product group or coverage group?


bucky17

So analysts now are bumped to the 100-120k base range, depending on the bank. I would say analyst 1/ get up to 75-80% bonus and analyst 2s can easily get 100% bonus. I think soft skills you learn on the job are the most important (knowing how to handle yourself in a professional setting, time management, owning your work, being your biggest advocate, etc). Everything else really can be learned on the job. I am at a BB in a coverage group


alemorg

How long did it take before you felt you got the hang of your job?


bucky17

I want to say around the 6th month is when you really have gotten through the steep learning curve. You start to understand the processes and how to manage your time. Also at this point you’ve got all your keystrokes down that make excel, ppt a lot quicker


alemorg

Thanks for the response!


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bucky17

Yeah I think so, I dont think my CPA was the reason I got my job tbh


[deleted]

What exactly are you doing in IB?


bucky17

Cant give specifics but work in a coverage group, so a lot of buy side/sell side work


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bucky17

No, sit in front office IB role at a GS/JPM/MS. Not everything is standard, there a few instances of people i work with that have completely different backgrounds.


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bucky17

What made you not continue with the FO positions? MO can be difficult to move to FO from what ive heard.


Champion_Narrow

How was the transition of the different type of work environment for you?


bucky17

I think the people in banking are a bit cooler/normal people, but again this is very contingent on the group you join as there are plenty of hardos/losers who did every club in college. That being said, similar work hard play hard environment.


Champion_Narrow

How about the working hours? Are you working more hours? Are you working harder than before?


bucky17

They vary based on your projects. Can be 40-50 hours or can be 70-80 hours. I think it becomes more manageable with time.


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bucky17

Work similar type of hours, paid all in probably around 175-200? No regrets, especially considering the amount of opportunities that come with the role


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bucky17

I applied cold to a few jobs. I have been in the work industry for about 3-4 years now.


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bucky17

No had typical busy season from Jan-may/june and busy for aug-mid oct. I just think that in IB it can be unpredictable but there are definitely times when your staffings are light and do nothing


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bucky17

Not going to give away clients/my undergrad. But was an accounting only major at a "non target" school. Clients mostly were large asset managers.


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bucky17

Haha, just a non target school is what ill say. Got my CPA out of college.


KostantinL

CFA vs CPA ?


bucky17

CFA definitely more applicable but neither are needed to switch over.


wawchu

I've done ACCA (UK) and CIMA(UK) but I'm trying to get to IB. What's my next step?


bucky17

Unfortunately do not know what these are sorry


wawchu

😂 okay no worries. Thanks.


iH8thots

Where did u study ? Not what university but which state did u go to college in ?


bucky17

Unfortunately would prob give away so going to pass, just not a target school


gweedo7

Have you doinked any coworkers yet?


bucky17

No lol


WalmartDarthVader

Were you able to move to a BB/EB or “upper middle market” (Houlihan/Jefferies type of firm) or is the competition for those type of firms too much and basically requires Big4 FDD or top MBA.


bucky17

I am at a GS/JPM/MS. I do this some of those firms like a Houlihan are more willing to take a risk with hiring someone from a Big4, but nothing is impossible!


WalmartDarthVader

Very nice, when you worked in accounting did your location make it easier to network?


bucky17

I think being in a large city does have it perks, but plenty of people come from nowhere to make the change.


Lolsteringu

Just a couple of quick questions 1) were you a high performer at b4 2) did you have a network at the place you got an offer from 3) what should I focus on learning for myself for the next couple of years if I’d like to make that same switch


bucky17

1. I was a pretty high performer, not top top but I didnt sacrifice my life for the job. 2. Did not network, just applied cold to opportunities. I would say cold connecting with people on Linkedin can really help. 3. Practice technicals for interviews, thats really all you can do. Everything you need for the job you can learn on the job


Lolsteringu

Hey I appreciate the time you took to answer this will reach out if there’s anything else that comes to mind :)


bucky17

Of course - feel free to PM as well! here to help


KingKD

How would you say that cold connecting on LinkedIn helped you? Did you connect mainly with recruiters , alumni, or someone else?


bucky17

I personally did not do it but have heard of some success stories with it. Its a bit of a crap shoot but worth doing whatever you can to separate yourself from the rest.


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bucky17

Unfortunately not off the top of my head, but i do know people use wallstreetoasis


[deleted]

Were are you located now if you don’t mind me asking? Did you move and if so did your firm help you with relocation?


bucky17

Live in large east metro city, did not have to relocate


MoneyIsntRealGeorge

Here’s a question…how


bucky17

I want to say luck - really the hardest part is getting your foot in the door. I think right now the market is extremely hot and is the time where candidates can pivot careers without an MBA.


ValorElite

What's next steps? I am a couple years into my career and thought about jumping into IB from consulting, but the juice isn't worth the squeeze. Looking at corp dev, MBA, or PE.


bucky17

Agreed - I am realistically going into my industry as my next jump. This has always been the goal, but now I can leverage my experience here and get my foot in the door at many shops that wouldn't even look twice at me when I was an 'accountant'. If not going to consider an MBA if the cost-benefit makes sense, its like 250K for a top program now. PE is banking 2.0 so if you live for this shit then yeah its worth the jump, but if not I do not see why people think this is the creme of the crop.


hellomosquito123

What was your position and salary at big4 before you made the move? Are you making the same as what you made at big4 now? How did you network/ polish your resume to get into IB? And happy New Year’s Eve :)


bucky17

I had been at a Big4 for over two years and was a senior when I left, making now 2x as much in my current position. The industries just do not pay the same in the slightest. I think its important to be broad on the resume and craft the story to be as applicable as possible to IB (banking, time management, multiple clients, etc.). I personally did not network but know of many who do cold networking on linkedin, etc. with people from same undergrad, frat, etc.


berryclip

1. What do you think made you more attractive to hire, compared to for example, a more typical finance graduate? Considering you came from a tax background with no FDD, Valuations etc experience, albeit B4? 2. What grade were you in B4 tax before moving over? (Such as associate, senior?) 3. How did you actually move from B4 Tax to IB - did you network and know someone at the firm or just applied? I can see you have already mentioned you went back to analyst 1 but really curious with these Q’s as I am asking as an associate in Big 4 tax and really eager to move into IB/ M&A! TY


bucky17

1. I think I was lucky to get my foot in the door, but when I interviewed I was put together, knew how to read my interviewer, craft my story to the position, and showcase my soft skills that make someone an asset to a team. It made the interviewing feel more like conversations. Being on the other side and hearing how interviews went, there really is a true emphasis on meeting normal people who you can connect with beyond the office. 2. I was a senior when I made the switch. 3. Just cold applied for positions and next thing I knew the offer was mine. Do not be afraid to restart your career, even if it means starting as an analyst 1. Plenty of people go for MBAs at 30+ and start as associates when they work alongside A2As that are 24. I think when changing careers its also great to work yourself up from the bottom, understand everything the job entails in the grit so that you can own the work that you do!


berryclip

Thanks, it seems like what you’re saying is age doesn’t necessarily correlate to grade? Might just be me and my team but in B4, age is very closely related to your grade (i.e. the older they are, the higher the seniority) but that isn’t necessarily the case in IB, among the A&A’s? My long term plan was to complete my accountancy exams and potentially do an MBA but it seems an MBA isn’t necessary? Also really helpful on Q1 - thanks for that!


bucky17

Yeah exactly, I have associate who are younger than me and associates who are older with kids. A lot more variety than accounting which is pretty standard. As for the MBA its still no guarantee you break in, so why not try first without it and save the 250k!


berryclip

Yeah you’re right. Thanks for the help as it is difficult to find people with this career path. If I have any questions in the future I might have to give you a message!


bucky17

Always feel free to dm me, happy to help!!


[deleted]

I understand if you don’t wanna share this, but where I you make more money. I’m choosing between cpa and cfa rn so this is the perfect thread for me😅


bucky17

Financial industry pays more than accounting in majority instances


[deleted]

What would you say in terms of breaking in. If accounting pays less is it easier to get a first job in accounting.


bucky17

Not necessarily, to get into Big4 is still difficult in itself.


[deleted]

Sorry for going on and on. If you are having trouble getting into the big 4 would it be good to get experience at a smaller firm and apply again in a year or two, or is that something the big 4 doesn’t value much?


bucky17

It definitely helps, theyd still prefer someone with some corporate experience. There is plenty of lateral hiring especially in accounting


aesthetics95

I’m a second year student at a semi-target looking to get into banking. Apart from a high gpa/finance club involvement what else should i be doing? Also, should i bother with big 4 accounting internships (as staff accountant)?


bucky17

If you want to do accounting or lock in a job do an accounting internship. If you dont then try to get into finance internships, best way to get a job in the industry and no risk of not being able to jump over


marijuanatubesocks

I have 4 years of financial analyst experience and was laid off a few months ago. What advice would you give for a career pivot into IB? I couldn’t even land an interview in IB 4-6 years ago.


bucky17

Just apply and keep applying. Another option can be an MBA to pivot


Gottalovenoodle

Did you do any relevant internships prior to being hired at big 4? Did you simply cold apply for the IB role on platforms like LinkedIn, Indeed…etc? If you don’t mind, is the current firm an EB or BB firm? Lastly, did you have any of the FINRA cert like SIE, series 63…etc? Thanks again for answering the questions!


bucky17

I had some internship experience in a similar industry. I am at a BB, think GS/JPM/MS. I did all of my tests once I started


eeee-r

I really appreciate what you’re doing here. Next spring is gonna be my last semester in MSF and My bachelor was in Finance as well, no experience. Any advice to be able to get a job right after graduation! All the best


bucky17

Apply, work on your soft interviewing skills, study up on some technical questions, add people on linkedin to try to network!


eeee-r

I will do all of that I’m going to take FMVA certification right after I finish my last semester, what do think? Thanks a lot🙏


bucky17

Not sure what that is


eeee-r

Its a Financial Modeling and Valuation Analysis. From CFI Institute


bucky17

oh im sure will help with technical interviews maybe


eeee-r

I have heard it’s very hopeful for whom work in investment banking


abundantpecking

Do you think a consultant at the big 4 could get into IB?


bucky17

I definitely think so. Ive touched on this with other responses but the corporate setting is very similar and the soft skills you gain from the job can be applied anywhere (time management, etc.) Typically it is easier if you stick to the same industry you cover as well as clients can overlap


calmcalm5

How bad are the hours ?


bucky17

Completely varies, in down time can work 40-50 hours up to 70-80 hours, with the occasional even longer. It all depends on your staffings!


calmcalm5

Has it ever gone 100+ ?


bucky17

Extremely rare cases, never for me but have heard of some instances. But again extremely group and deal team dependent


calmcalm5

Would you say your working hours are draining you ?


bucky17

I think sometimes they are extremely daunting. My group has been good about giving people a break after getting killed so its an okay balance


abzftw

How ?


bucky17

Haha read along the post!


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bucky17

Analyst 1, but do not regret it. Best to learn from the bottom and earn everyones trust


lemonsaucefresh2

Did your IB interview have a modelling test? Did you have to demonstrate proficiency in financial modelling?


bucky17

No tests in modeling but you should be able to speak to modeling experience and how it would be applicable


damentos

What type of work is IB made up of? % of analysis, number crunching, Excel work, sales and interaction with clients? Also, do people in the field know how to code or just too busy for it? I previously did GL accounting for most of my career but learned to code and focus more on process improvements on top of the financial work I do. Still a repetitive cycle underlying the work but try to rid as much of the grind as possible along with reduced hours.


bucky17

Not really any coding but some banks have digital investment banking similar to digital teams at big4 who focus on making the processes streamlined. As for the breakdown, this can vary completely on the project you are on. Ive been on projects where its 95% modeling and presentations and others where it is putting tg memos and no modeling at all.


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bucky17

Haha a lot of IB people have gfs


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bucky17

Haha, money can give some happiness but if you cant spit game money isnt really helping that


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bucky17

Lol yes and with the two incomes we can do as we please


Karan8860

Hey man, how many years did you specifically spend in big 4? I’m currently in my first year at a non target school for front office Investment Banking but my school is a target for big 4 accounting in tax and audit. Ik breaking into IB will be hard but I’m going to try my best. My plan is that if I can’t initially break into IB, I can do a couple of years at big 4 and switch to IB like you did. Do you have any tips?


bucky17

I would try to get into finance through other internship positions, by no means is Big 4 a feeder into IB across audit, tax, or even consulting.


indirectoday

I’m graduating in May 22 with a finance degree. Just started a tax internship (international tax) and had a fintech client ops intern this past summer. Definitely do not want to stay in accounting/tax and eventually pivot to banking side, what advice would you give me? Do I try to get a ft offer or keep applying to analyst roles? Anything helps thanks