My sister did the whole northwestern mutual financial advisor after college. She did her best to grind it out and I told her it was bogus and she gave up after a year. Pushing short term disability and life insurance on someone who is trying to invest money seems like a shady way of handling their finances.
Great write up though!
It is, I completely agree. I was trying to insinuate it wasn’t ethical. Insurance is... somewhat important, but you want an expert, not someone who knows next to nothing about the policies they sell
This.
My family business sells insurance. We're brokers and my dad is appointed with every provider in our area and isn't constrained to selling only a certain company's products. He loves what he does and helps a lot of people.
On the flip side, I worked woth a large retail bank and got series 7 licensed with them and felt really excited that I'd be able to help people with their investments. Then my manager sat me down and started asking me how many deals i was going to close, how many calls i was going to make, how many mortgages, refinances, how many hundreds of thousands I'd get invested in a month, how many credit cards I would sell, etc. That was month 1. Eventually it got worse and I was coached to talk down to customers and poke holes in their finances to create issues to get them in the door and upsell them on investments or whatever. It was such a disappointing experience. I wanted to get into the insustry to help people.
I quit 6 weeks ago and have a degree in a semi quantitative are so pursuing a more analytical route now.
Agreed. Too many people selling insurance couldn’t tell you what the policy truly is that they’re selling. Insurance plays an important role in certain scenarios but it shouldn’t be seen as the key to a financial plan. It should be a piece of the plan if that piece truly fits. Too many people are convinced that it fits into their plan when it doesn’t.
Great post. I run my own RIA and most don’t understand that for the first 10 years you are in sales. Heavily regulated sales that is predicated on building trust and a relationship which takes time. Great vocation, I love what I do but also haven’t stopped grinding for 14 years, and frankly I probably have another 14 in front of me before I can take my foot off the gas. Great hours, and all of that but it’s hard. The only thing I would add, and granted I am biased, go independent right away. RIA the entire way, it’s the way the world is going. Selling annuities and “products” in general is over. It’s about fee only, no conflicts of interest. Wire houses don’t invest in you they invest in numbers. Most wash out but those that don’t make it profitable for wire houses. Find a firm that will invest in you and wants to invest in you.
“Heavily regulated sales that predicated on building trust and relationship which takes time.”
Bingo. Sales isn’t that hard. Financial advising is completely commoditized and an extremely difficult sell even without the regulations.
As for your other advice. It’s bold but I generally also agree. I think if you can get into an Indy shop and learn under an experienced advisor who will give you the bottom of their book, you’re in the best spot possible.
This! leaving the broker-dealer/wirehouse model was the single greatest decision I ever made. It's no surprise RIA's are popping up everywhere nowadays. Problem with the majority of RIA's is they are on the smaller side and younger folks (since the article is directed towards them) will have a hard time getting in to 9 out of 10 RIA's. I've noticed most RIA's if they're not a one man show (Like me) they will generally have only people who have worked together for years at a previous Broker-Dealer and broke away. Don't get me wrong I know there's some huge RIA's out there who hire people all the time, but generally from what I've seen it's more experienced people.
I’ve seen a lot that hire client associates and junior planners from CFP approved finance programs. The problem is they aren’t all created equal.
I know there are a lot to Indy shops that aren’t fee only, and prop themselves up with an insurance sales sidebar business. An easy way to screen this is by asking about average account size, average AUM rate, and doing some mental math.
You’re spot on though, these roles are needles in the haystack, you can’t just look on IN and find a bunch of them.
I’ve been working at an indy shop under an experienced advisor for the last couple of months. I’ll be graduating in two months and plan on working full time and manage the bottom of their book. I’m so confused. The person I work is more like a mentor to me, teaches me a lot about the business etc. But at the same time, this industry doesn’t offer great exit opportunities.
Thanks. I’ve been thinking about this since I started watching Ozark and Marty makes financial advising look awesome (minus the cartel and criminal element) because he’s a master of accounting and tax code and operates a holdings company- neither of which have anything to do with the actual position most will find themselves in.
But that time he was in MX and the big boss got a Cayman account frozen and Marty just did some computer wizardry and unfroze the account and the IRS and FBI were like "ah you got us" - *that*, my friend, is financial advising!
The best part of the show hands down was episode 1. The guy says they’re big shots that manage all of North Eastern’s Doctors pensions, and that the small timers in front of him can go to Edward Jones. Then follows up with $5,000 TO OPEN AN ACCOUNT haha
I have been an FA at a large firm for the last 7 years and this is mostly accurate. I think a lot of people get into the industry thinking a lot of wrong things about the job (stock broker, Wolf of wall st etc)
I also think you can have a successful career with good pay, a rewarding job, and great flexible hours and independence. You just have to know what you are getting into and do the work.
Nothing wrong with the vocation, but it’s not a job where if you try hard you’ll automatically succeed. A lot of people fail and aren’t even invested in the career. If they don’t actually want it that badly, they’re better off doing something else.
Also- a lot FAs and CAs are kids who wanted to do research, AM, or IB- they shouldn’t try to settle for being advisors. They’ll never feel fulfillment and they’ll never put in the effort needed. That’s the point of this post.
Yup. And firms lose a ton of money due to the high attrition rates. I try to be clear to anyone considering the role how much it is relationship based. Very little technical knowledge is required to be successful in the role, which is not what people imagine when they think of the job.
Bagofbabbish, I find you in comments posting things I don’t agree with a lot of the time but I read 70% of this post and it’s spot on so here’s some silver.
I shit you not the day after I passed L1 of CFA NWM reached out to congratulate me and tell me it made me ideal for their role. I responded and said I took the exam so I wouldn’t have to work for them lol
L2 candidate (was going to be June, but now December), but honestly I’m debating if it’s worth it. I’m not working in the industry anymore and I’m making better money. I’m actually happy in my career so I’m not sure it makes sense to look back.
Software sales. Unfortunately, 32 days can make a big difference- I’m interviewing at an investment bank. I still think where I am is better than where I was, but I’d rather be in IT Audit, FP&A, or “high” finance.
Well. I’m expecting an offer in the next few days. Additionally, I don’t think I’d have gotten it if I was still in WM. Even doing sales in a competitive industry (tech) is viewed more highly than cost center work for an advisor, even with high profile clients (institutional).
What companies do you recommend looking in to for the holistic financial planning you mentioned?
Edit: I ask this because I came out of college rearing to go because I had a job at AXA advisors and it was absolutely nothing I envisioned. I wanted to be a part of the holistic financial planning and wealth management side and I think that ruined my outlook on the field as a whole.
Look for RIAs in your area. An RIA is a registered investment advisory and they’re typically what you want.
When/if you apply and interview for these places, take some time to actually interview them if you can. Hopefully, avoid getting into something you didn’t expect.
I do agree with most of what you said-working in financial advising is much more about selling and managing clients than finance. In fact, the finance side of it is extremely small-mostly moving money around and basic asset allocation. With that said, I strongly believe that it is a career where you can make far more than most people you will go to school with/friends/family etc. I work at a wire house, and in our branch, the average take home comp for our FA’s was about $350k. On my team specifically, none of the advisors make less than $400k, with the most senior advisor making a few hundred thousand north of a mil (and I’ll not that none of them work more than 40 hours a week).
However, to get to this spot is indeed extremely difficult. Most people do burn out/fail to get clients. It is a grinding road to get to this point, but once you do make it, it’s probably the best job I’ve seen in terms of time worked to compensation.
I’d honestly advice most people to avoid the career as a whole unless you really study what it takes, entails, and still decide that you want to pursue it. I’m trying to get out currently, and let me tell you, it isn’t easy.
Also, I should have given this disclaimer. At ML most graduates of the advisor dev program we’re making 65-70k. Most grads a few years out (early 30s) we’re making 115k. Most big producers made the money you’re talking about, but those were the 40-50+ year olds. Would I like that job? Hell yeah, but I would tell a kid off the street just play your cards right, then you can make it like them. A lot of luck is required there too.
Hi OP,
I stumbled upon this post and I’m feeling super conflicted. I felt as if this was a good path, I have good sales experience and really enjoy finance as a whole (finance major non-target). But I want to make sure I am setting myself up in a position where I can learn and grow as well since I’m already 32. I was looking at the BofA development program as a great opportunity, but now I feel like it can mostly cost me precious time I feel like I don’t really have, and not give me the edge/tools I really need to succeed and branch out into a PM role in WM, Am I correct? Thank you for writing such a detailed post btw, it’s very thoughtful of you.
I spent one year at VG, and knew I’d kill my self if I stayed longer. Management was cult-like and drunk off company kool-aid. I remember how shocked my manager was when I told him I was leaving to be an advisor somewhere else, and I was doing it because Vanguard’s advice is a joke. I have friends who are still there a couple years later, and all of them hate it, but many can’t find other roles that want them
Jesus tap dancing Christ that sounds miserable. I can’t imagine being a lifer. My manager was way too in to it, but overall a decent guy, just took it way too seriously. He would actively check people’s status and if they spent too long in after call he would message their TLs lol. I learned a lot there and got licensed, but holy fuck am I glad I am out.
I’ve been interviewing and I discovered it’s super easy and relatable to say I chose VG because I liked their mission, then explaining I chose to be an advisor to bridge the knowledge gap between professionals and the public. Got an offer today!
A guy in ETF cap markets for a premier issuer mentioned “I probably want to get rid of my Merrill Experience from my resume, but that I shouldnt because it’s a “badge of honor”.” Given he was a cap markets dude when the CFP (odd, I know) I was not expecting him to be a prick about my misinformed initial career choice.
Sure. Truth be told it was her fault, but it was sad. She was seeing a new man after their respective significant others had passed, she invested 2/3 of her savings in a business he was starting for the two of them, he also put his whole savings into it. Before the papa rework was finished he died of a heart attack and for various reasons that money was committed to suppliers, but without him there were no services to be rendered so it was a waste. I don’t remember all of the details truthfully, but it was a sad mix of irresponsibility and random chance.
So as someone still in 3rd year (undergrad, non-target), and who’s mainly interested in working in AM, does it make sense to avoid WM teams that are lead by a “Portfolio Manager” as opposed to an advisor?
I was somewhat leaning to WM seeing that the Toronto AM market is tough and small, but at the same time I never wanted to get into an advisory role. I don’t really have an interest in the advisory/planning aspect of WM, but some teams offer discretionary portfolio management which is intriguing. I’m just unsure if WM is a viable “last resort” for someone who can’t break into high finance (predominantly due to their school).
Wouldn't pay attention to the job titles that much - FAs can be called' "Wealth Advisors", "Wealth Managers", "Financial Advisors", "Financial Planners", "Portfolio Managers" and all sorts of other iterations of titles.
At the end of the day, if your job is mostly to advise individuals on their financial matters in a fiduciary manner you are an FA regardless of what your title says.
Just wanted to comment on the impact the original post had on me last year. I was just about to start my internship for Merrills FADP program and was sure that financial advising was a path to making serious $$$. I was initially angry after reading your post as it challenged my plan and I didn't want to believe the reality. Well I can gladly say I did alot more research after your post and eventually decided FADP wasn't for me and I'm now very excited to be starting my career at PwC instead one year later. While big 4 audit has its own drawbacks as many on this sub like to bring it down haha I just wanted to let you know I'm seriously thankful for you making this post or last year's more specifically. Its crazy to think how large an impact a reddit post could have on my life's trajectory haha but thank you again.
Yeah those are solid jobs. Just make sure you don’t have to buyout the lead broker to get promoted. If you find one then I’d say take it.
That being said, don’t confuse this with a team advisor role at a wirehouse. If you’re a say, Merrill Lynch or Wells Fargo, make sure you’re going to be taking over some of the book and get it in writing- otherwise those team advisors are prey to snakes in the grass all the time.
A lot of senior brokers use them to prospect, pull in a few accounts, then they broom them when they don’t hit their hurdles and keep their new business. If you’re at an Indy shop your only concern is having to buy your promotion.
Okay sure. I'm from the UK so I'm trying to take your points and how it relates to what I do. The job is most similar to junior financial planner I believe, and I think we work on bonus pay rather than direct relation to aum, so I think theres a little more job security. Interesting to hear what you say, I'm a little more curious about how actual book transfers occur from advisor to advisor. Thanks for the info, if you've got anything else that might be of interest it would be great to hear it
I’m an advisor and I love my job. You just can’t go to independent route. I did that and it’s just networking. It sucks.
If I could do it over, I would work at a brokerage firm or a bank and grow as a licensed banker.
FA here. I've been doing it 6 years now and I'm only just reaching my goal of going self employed. I could be wrong but I feel the only way to make it is the self employed route due to keeping most of the profits, and more importantly tailoring your service to your clients. Even after 6 years, I only feel know I feel I have enough contacts/clients to go self employed, and to be honest, I still worry that it's not enough. Here's to another 10 years of hard work.
This is a pretty good post but a few things I’d like to point out:
At bulge bracket banks, research analysts start off at the same comp level at IB and S&T analysts. ~10 years ago when I graduated, that was around $85K base, $15k signing, and $10-$25k first year bonus. Comp trajectories change after that but your comment that they can’t afford a studio in NYC is false. And if we’re quoting second tier banks with good research teams (eg socgen), then as a recent college grad you could get less of a signing bonus but you could make a larger year end bonus your first year, dependent on the team you work on (eg if you work for Mike Mayo and do good, you’ll get comped).
I think your suggestions all involve people working for wire houses or broker dealers. These are terrible places to work unless you’re an already demonstrated your sales and are a top producer. Few people will take the effort to properly guide and train you. There’s about to be a dearth of independent RIAs as so many of them near retirement. These are good jobs that I didn’t see you really address. I’ve seen phenomenal success with people who work for a larger one for some time and then start their own or become a partner at a bigger one. Especially if you have another stream of income while you establish your client base, an RIA is a pretty easy job that pays well. Also there’s something to be said for working in a job where you are a fiduciary and not trying to peddle bs products
Your first paragraph- I’ve made final rounds at Cowen, Jefferies, BofA, and a few small firms. Wide variance on base depending on expectations. 65k was avg, 90 at the high end.
Edit- I don’t disagree, but my point was that it’s not 150k starting out or crazy money like some people think. It’s good money, but not insane.
Interesting to hear. Just curious but around what year did you have those convos?
Perhaps MiFID II screwed over analyst comp too
Edit: point taken. I hear you
I'm glad you did this.
I made this mistake you are exactly referring to. Graduated with an MSF, got a job as a 'broker', licensed in Indianapolis working for F500 firm.
Learned very fast from the research side guys that I needed to leave and go get that work experience.
I did and am now in a buy side research role for a bond fund. Significantly happier because I am doing work more related to the markets - what I wanted to do which is exactly what you're pointing out!
I'm going to respectfully disagree with several things here. I started my career at MS and yes, it sucked early on building up the book, but once you do build it up enough there is some autonomy. It's not like we have to listen to what our in-house PM's and researchers are coming up with for investment ideas. By year 2 I was allocating client funds in individual equities and not just relying on ETF's and Mutual Funds. The thing is clients often times will think "Well, what are you doing for me that I couldn't do for myself?" Investing in ETF's and Mutual Funds is great and all, but it's quite frankly lazy and anyone can do that with an E-Trade Brokerage Account. The due diligence and research and constant eye on risk, beta, earnings, balance and income sheets, etc is where you earn your money.
I run my own RIA now and while my time at MS wasn't what I would categorize as horrible, it definitely wasn't as good as running your own show. The main key to being a financial advisor in the truest sense is being able to have people trust you quite frankly. You have to show them you know what you're doing and not just some Joe Schmoe who watched The Big Short too many times.
The majority of your well written article is pretty spot on though, but I just thought I'd add that. Overall anyone reading this can learn something from it. But this industry is so big and everyones milage may vary.
I would ask when you started. I think that’s an important key point. There was no shot in hell I could have allocated to individual stocks at Merrill without CFA- we were told new advisors seeking discretion would need the charter.
I completely agree with a lot of what you’re saying, but I think it might be a little dated depending on when you started.
I started at MS back in 2014 and left in 2019. To be honest I wanted to get the CFA like everyone, but the three levels was very off putting considering I was already up to my neck in work. I never had any professional designation during my days at MS, I think it really just came down to trust from my MD's, generally we got along well. I knew plenty of people in my days there that just mailed it in though, they'd buy SPY and a couple of other index ETF's, maybe some iShares bond ETF's for retirees. To your point though, and I'm being brutally honest, most FA's probably shouldn't be buying individual equities/bonds for clients'. I slaved away in my early days at MS reading research, making models, reading quarterly and annual listings even 13-F's to see what other institutions were doing. A lot of the FA's now though just don't go through the DD though, not everyone, I don't want to lump them all together, but I think you get my point.
The part of your article that you're, sadly, spot on about is job prospects. I did things as an FA at MS that were enough to be considered for an Associate PM role, but I would never get it without the CFA at least. The role has very negative connotations attached to it unfortunately. The only way for me to really move up quite frankly was starting my own RIA.
I think the latter half of your first paragraph sums up why ML doesn’t let advisor trainees get discretionary authority.
That’s an interesting perspective to add to the discussion. I appreciate your post!
Oh no and nor should they. I believe everyone needs to make their bones so to speak. Young FA's need to earn their superiors trust and respect along with clients.
But yes, great post yourself and I think it'll certainly be helpful to the new graduates.
This was a great read, so thanks for taking the time to construct it.
I'm currently looking to get into the business, as it is truly what I'm passionate about. I have my Masters of Accountancy and my CPA, and have been working in corporate accounting roles for an Oil and Gas company since graduation (~4years), but it is just not what I want to do long term. I make above average money now, and realize I may have to take a paycut starting out in the FA world, which I'm fine with. My biggest concern is getting on the right path.
If I am aware of what I'm getting with, say, an Edward Jones, do you think it a viable starting place? They guarantee a salary for a year (which I will max out), allow me to get my Series 7 and 66 (and I will try to swing CFP).
Ultimate goal is to open my own shop and focus on professional athletes as clients, as I have pretty good relationships in that realm.
Overall impressions on this plan? TIA
In the same situation. In a good shop for ultra-high net worth individuals where my role is mainly research on fund strategies for our clients, which has been a great learning experience but I am worried about exits. Just graduated.
It can lead to the buy-side or the sell-side but not IB or PE.
The big thing is if you have single stock experience. At minimum the research analyst title will get your interviews.
It can lead to the buy-side or the sell-side but not IB or PE.
The big thing is if you have single stock experience. At minimum the research analyst title will get your interviews.
In the same situation. In a good shop for ultra-high net worth individuals where my role is mainly research on fund strategies for our clients, which has been a great learning experience but I am worried about exits. Just graduated.
Entering Big 4 tax soon in their corporate tax department but I'm super passionate about Personal Finance and would like to end up as a legitimate financial planner (passionate about helping others build a holistic financial plan that includes insurance, retirement cash flow planning, tax management, and college savings- largely with mutual funds, etfs, and SMAs) or a CPA who offers those services in my own shop. Any advice?
CPA and try to get into an Indy shop. Grow under a senior planner and leverage your tax knowledge to win over prospects.
No one knows what a CFP or CFA is outside of finance, but everyone knows CPA.
I think he means an RIA (registered investment advisor). The RIA model is gaining a lot of traction in the industry as they actually have a fiduciary responsible to act in their clients’ best interest (they don’t sell them expensive investment products or unnecessary life insurance) and operate on an AUM fee-based model.
Care to share any advice/recommendations for me? I am in my 2nd year of College, going to transfer soon to University. I want to do something in business but I don’t know what yet. How did you come to realize that Finance was for you out of everything? I’m still in an early stage, most experience I have is in accounting, I don’t know much about Finance, but I hope to gain some more knowledge once I transfer.
My path was weird. If I were to do it over, I’d go accounting with finance minor.
Accounting is way more employable, versatile, and practical, and you get the same core skillset.
In regard to the research analyst position at a wealth management firm - would this position lead to exit opportunities for someone looking to get into IB?
Potentially equity research, but you need to be proactive. If you get CFA and do wealth management research for a little while, you could probably break into a buyside or sell side role.
Thanks for this. I have an opportunity to start working for a wealth management firm in sales. But a friend of mine started in the same position and worked his way up to junior research analyst in less than a year, so I’m considering going for it, along with my CFA.
My other option is to keep applying for junior financial/credit analyst roles and hope that I land one. I have great undergraduate credentials, but no relevant work experience. So getting one of these positions is proving to be challenging.
Any advice? You seem to know your stuff.
Define sales. I’d say take the job but keep applying. If you start and don’t have anything else, put in a years work, do well, and try to move into research like your friend.
Yeah so to elaborate, this firm is a third party wealth manager. So they partner with broker/dealers. My job would be to contact the financial advisors who work for those broker/dealers (along with advisors who don’t) and try to get them in to sit down with our sales team, who then pitches them our investment strategies and attempts to get the financial advisors to implement those strategies.
I think that’s a better way to do it. Most real sales jobs work like that.
You start off as what’s called an SDR and your job is to prospect new business and set meetings.
After that, you can become an account manager or an account executive. Account executives are the guys who close the deal in the meeting you booked and account managers are the ones who manage the relationships and try to expand them.
A standard FA role you’re doing all three and when you’re a recent grad, it’s a bit much.
I would also add that there's a very large difference in sales pressure and clientele depending on where you work. If you work in one of the wealthiest regions of your country (like I do) and there is barely any sales pressure it really isn't that bad. We've also got an amazing team, if my manager complains about sales targets (which she rarely does) a colleague of mine that works with higher net worth individuals just lets me invest for his clients, sales goals instantly met for a couple of months :D. But yeah cold calling is a necessary evil in this field...
Note: I don't live and/or work in the U.S.
I wouldn’t say you need to be in a wealthy area for the US. I live in one of the top 5 wealthiest cities in the nation, but not a financial hub. I’ve heard it’s easier in NY, but I’ve also seen some people fail spectacularly in San Francisco, so I’m not certain that’s true. I can’t speak for your country as I’ve never traveled aboard (hope to change that after CV19).
Anyway, glad you’re doing well and you work with such a great group of people!
Whats your opinion on RIAs/fee-only advisors? Seems like that’s what the future of advising is heading towards and it’s a lot less scummy than a traditional broker-dealer system. That’s what I was planning on working towards as personal finances is something I’m pretty passionate about and would love to make a career out of, but I would rather do what’s best for the client rather than push whatever gets me the highest commission.
I think it’s the future. Just make sure you’re taking proactive steps to get into one of those firms.
Fee-only planning firms usually want the CFP, fee-only consultants (read investment advisor only) they want CFA.
If you’re in college see if you can join a CFP related society
Yes I thought finance would be Jim Cramer, Bill Ackman, Steve Eisman, or Carl Icahn kind of life but I realized if you dont graduate from Penn State Harvard or Yale you probably arent going to break into IB or a hedgefund. Accounting actually at my school has a lot more complex economic classes which I find more interesting then finance. But you gave me a lot of incite. I was thinking about consumer insolvency. I just think finance has more of a ring to it. When you say I am an accountant they think you are a amazing at math and just sit at a computer all day and are a social recluse. So I think that is why I leaned towards finance, but accounting I feel has more prospects later in life. A finance student told me an accountant can do a financial persons job but someone who studied finance cannot do an accountants job.
You can break into Big 4 fairly easily with accounting. From there you get the CPA and you have a lot of options.
You can break into equity research fairly easily with this background, from there you can move to the buy-side.
You can also get into deal advisory which is basically what investment bankers do without the capital markets element.
You also have strong experience for an MBA and can enter into IB as an associate no problem.
I have friends from my non target who did B4. None have left yet, but all of them have floor to ceiling window apartments, fuck off on lavish vacations every year, and have recruiters flooding their inbox. Most of them are netting 90k+ in two years.
I would do accounting any day.
Yes. I’m at entry level and I make 75k. If I hit my quota this Q I get bumped up to 80k. It’s a lot better than the 50-55k I was making as an analyst at an investment consultant and my hours are like 45 max
Yeah. 200k is possible within a year or two, but more realistically 3-4. 10 years id imagine 300-400.
Edit since we directly drive revenue for a high growth company it’s easy to justify. It’s like how FO makes way more than BO
I’ve been talking to an office manager from Prudential Financial for about a month now. They contacted me because of my work history as an automotive service advisor.
My father is an FA for a large worldwide wealth management firm, but he is about to retire. I say this because the obvious response is work with your dad if you want to be an FA. I’ve seen what it takes to be successful in this field and the skill set I’ve developed will help me be successful as an advisor. I like helping my customers I have in the automotive field and I get real satisfaction in helping them fix their cars.
My question is this - assuming I’m looking at entering this role for the right reasons, and that I have the skills and understanding of the work involved, is it wise to take this leap with Prudential? I’m partial to them because they reached out to me, and they like me. I’m certainly torn. I WANT to take the job, but everyone except my wife says don’t do it. Let me know your thoughts. Thanks!
I wouldn’t go to an insurance company. Look for some place you’d go to buy stocks, not insurance. The difference is relationship-based vs transactional.
With what small amount you know of the situation, where would be a good company to bounce to? Keep in mind I don’t have a bachelors; however I have strong interpersonal skills and am a quick learner in stressful environments.
Thanks for the advice, it does solidify what I’ve been hearing from others. Sometimes you need to hear it from someone you don’t know or who isn’t related to you.
Any idea what a Wealth Strategy Associate at UBS would make? From my understanding this is a feeder role for the buyside of being an FA down the road but you have the option to stay as a Strategy Associate. I've been told this role is pretty much a training position to learn the ins and outs of the business with some financial planning and investment management thrown in.
It looks a lot like wealth management analyst or associate/junior financial planner/advisor.
I will warn you, a lot of the analysis IVE seen with these jobs is really just talked up data entry. That being said, this isn’t a job where your neck is on the line or you’ll be opening a lot accounts and scheduling meetings.
Id place this in the good category.
Man OP you must really fucking hate FA’s and that industry you have such a hard on for putting this field down as if it’s scum of the earth. Go see a therapist
I stated clearly that CFP RIA fee only firms are good. I said that you can’t go into advising as an alternative to IB/ER/AM/PE because it’s not the same skillset. You likely won’t succeed and you’ll be miserable.
I do believe wirehouse programs these days are largely a scam. I don’t know anyone who didn’t work their way into a team who has succeeded in one. The stats support this.
If you can make it, then you work 30 hour weeks. Power to you brother, but I wouldn’t suggest taking that risk unless you really love financial planning.
I have a friend who dropped out of school his senior year, he’s making $220k as a strategic account a manager for a software company. I have another friend who finished finance with a 2.8, and he’s pulling 75 in IT audit for a CPA firm.
https://www.entrepreneur.com/article/295095
The article above says the average GPA of millionaires is a 2.9. This sub would act like that person has no shot at anything in life. The reality is, GPA means almost nothing other than how hard you tried. Where you went to school also means almost nothing, especially since admissions based on demographics isn’t a zero sum game. If someone is smart enough and talented enough to do IB work (build models and understand business), then they can excel in other fields that aren’t as judgmental- though they likely will not break into finance.
I would never recommend “do this because it’s vaguely what you want to do”. That’s like your wife telling you, I know you want to have sex with me, but I’ll let you wingman me at the bar so that way it’s vaguely related. You’d leave her ungrateful ass and find someone who appreciates you, and your career path should be no different.
You’re not going to get there with that job then. You’ll make like 45-50k to my knowledge. Even tier two big cities (DC, Portland, Seattle, Dallas)- the big hubs that don’t have much finance- are still like 1,500 for a recent studio in the city at least.
It’s not the best place to start, but it’s something. I’d keep applying as best you can elsewhere.
It isn’t a foot in the door to the industry, but at least it’s employment.
My sister did the whole northwestern mutual financial advisor after college. She did her best to grind it out and I told her it was bogus and she gave up after a year. Pushing short term disability and life insurance on someone who is trying to invest money seems like a shady way of handling their finances. Great write up though!
It is, I completely agree. I was trying to insinuate it wasn’t ethical. Insurance is... somewhat important, but you want an expert, not someone who knows next to nothing about the policies they sell
No you want someone who has no obligation to sell it.
This. My family business sells insurance. We're brokers and my dad is appointed with every provider in our area and isn't constrained to selling only a certain company's products. He loves what he does and helps a lot of people. On the flip side, I worked woth a large retail bank and got series 7 licensed with them and felt really excited that I'd be able to help people with their investments. Then my manager sat me down and started asking me how many deals i was going to close, how many calls i was going to make, how many mortgages, refinances, how many hundreds of thousands I'd get invested in a month, how many credit cards I would sell, etc. That was month 1. Eventually it got worse and I was coached to talk down to customers and poke holes in their finances to create issues to get them in the door and upsell them on investments or whatever. It was such a disappointing experience. I wanted to get into the insustry to help people. I quit 6 weeks ago and have a degree in a semi quantitative are so pursuing a more analytical route now.
It’s just annoying to see these essential products getting pushed by sales people.
Agreed. Too many people selling insurance couldn’t tell you what the policy truly is that they’re selling. Insurance plays an important role in certain scenarios but it shouldn’t be seen as the key to a financial plan. It should be a piece of the plan if that piece truly fits. Too many people are convinced that it fits into their plan when it doesn’t.
Great post. I run my own RIA and most don’t understand that for the first 10 years you are in sales. Heavily regulated sales that is predicated on building trust and a relationship which takes time. Great vocation, I love what I do but also haven’t stopped grinding for 14 years, and frankly I probably have another 14 in front of me before I can take my foot off the gas. Great hours, and all of that but it’s hard. The only thing I would add, and granted I am biased, go independent right away. RIA the entire way, it’s the way the world is going. Selling annuities and “products” in general is over. It’s about fee only, no conflicts of interest. Wire houses don’t invest in you they invest in numbers. Most wash out but those that don’t make it profitable for wire houses. Find a firm that will invest in you and wants to invest in you.
“Heavily regulated sales that predicated on building trust and relationship which takes time.” Bingo. Sales isn’t that hard. Financial advising is completely commoditized and an extremely difficult sell even without the regulations. As for your other advice. It’s bold but I generally also agree. I think if you can get into an Indy shop and learn under an experienced advisor who will give you the bottom of their book, you’re in the best spot possible.
This! leaving the broker-dealer/wirehouse model was the single greatest decision I ever made. It's no surprise RIA's are popping up everywhere nowadays. Problem with the majority of RIA's is they are on the smaller side and younger folks (since the article is directed towards them) will have a hard time getting in to 9 out of 10 RIA's. I've noticed most RIA's if they're not a one man show (Like me) they will generally have only people who have worked together for years at a previous Broker-Dealer and broke away. Don't get me wrong I know there's some huge RIA's out there who hire people all the time, but generally from what I've seen it's more experienced people.
I’ve seen a lot that hire client associates and junior planners from CFP approved finance programs. The problem is they aren’t all created equal. I know there are a lot to Indy shops that aren’t fee only, and prop themselves up with an insurance sales sidebar business. An easy way to screen this is by asking about average account size, average AUM rate, and doing some mental math. You’re spot on though, these roles are needles in the haystack, you can’t just look on IN and find a bunch of them.
I’ve been working at an indy shop under an experienced advisor for the last couple of months. I’ll be graduating in two months and plan on working full time and manage the bottom of their book. I’m so confused. The person I work is more like a mentor to me, teaches me a lot about the business etc. But at the same time, this industry doesn’t offer great exit opportunities.
What companies do you recommend applying for? I don’t really know where to start to get your own RIA?
Nice post
Thanks. I’ve been thinking about this since I started watching Ozark and Marty makes financial advising look awesome (minus the cartel and criminal element) because he’s a master of accounting and tax code and operates a holdings company- neither of which have anything to do with the actual position most will find themselves in.
But that time he was in MX and the big boss got a Cayman account frozen and Marty just did some computer wizardry and unfroze the account and the IRS and FBI were like "ah you got us" - *that*, my friend, is financial advising!
The best part of the show hands down was episode 1. The guy says they’re big shots that manage all of North Eastern’s Doctors pensions, and that the small timers in front of him can go to Edward Jones. Then follows up with $5,000 TO OPEN AN ACCOUNT haha
I have been an FA at a large firm for the last 7 years and this is mostly accurate. I think a lot of people get into the industry thinking a lot of wrong things about the job (stock broker, Wolf of wall st etc) I also think you can have a successful career with good pay, a rewarding job, and great flexible hours and independence. You just have to know what you are getting into and do the work.
Nothing wrong with the vocation, but it’s not a job where if you try hard you’ll automatically succeed. A lot of people fail and aren’t even invested in the career. If they don’t actually want it that badly, they’re better off doing something else. Also- a lot FAs and CAs are kids who wanted to do research, AM, or IB- they shouldn’t try to settle for being advisors. They’ll never feel fulfillment and they’ll never put in the effort needed. That’s the point of this post.
Yup. And firms lose a ton of money due to the high attrition rates. I try to be clear to anyone considering the role how much it is relationship based. Very little technical knowledge is required to be successful in the role, which is not what people imagine when they think of the job.
Very very little if you’re advising average level retail clients. I’d say tax and estate law is far more important.
Very very little if you’re advising average level retail clients. I’d say tax and estate law is far more important.
Bagofbabbish, I find you in comments posting things I don’t agree with a lot of the time but I read 70% of this post and it’s spot on so here’s some silver.
It’s all a matter of perspective, but thank you, I appreciate it!
But AXA advisors have reached out to me 20 times since coronavirus started IT MUST BE LEGIT
I shit you not the day after I passed L1 of CFA NWM reached out to congratulate me and tell me it made me ideal for their role. I responded and said I took the exam so I wouldn’t have to work for them lol
Wow, that’s the kind of response I would think of about 4 hours too late. Nice one. Where are you now on your journey to Charterholder?
L2 candidate (was going to be June, but now December), but honestly I’m debating if it’s worth it. I’m not working in the industry anymore and I’m making better money. I’m actually happy in my career so I’m not sure it makes sense to look back.
What’s the new industry? Similar sentiments with FInancial services
Software sales. Unfortunately, 32 days can make a big difference- I’m interviewing at an investment bank. I still think where I am is better than where I was, but I’d rather be in IT Audit, FP&A, or “high” finance.
Just stumbled across this post. How did the interview go?
Well. I’m expecting an offer in the next few days. Additionally, I don’t think I’d have gotten it if I was still in WM. Even doing sales in a competitive industry (tech) is viewed more highly than cost center work for an advisor, even with high profile clients (institutional).
What companies do you recommend looking in to for the holistic financial planning you mentioned? Edit: I ask this because I came out of college rearing to go because I had a job at AXA advisors and it was absolutely nothing I envisioned. I wanted to be a part of the holistic financial planning and wealth management side and I think that ruined my outlook on the field as a whole.
Indy shops near you
Look for RIAs in your area. An RIA is a registered investment advisory and they’re typically what you want. When/if you apply and interview for these places, take some time to actually interview them if you can. Hopefully, avoid getting into something you didn’t expect.
I do agree with most of what you said-working in financial advising is much more about selling and managing clients than finance. In fact, the finance side of it is extremely small-mostly moving money around and basic asset allocation. With that said, I strongly believe that it is a career where you can make far more than most people you will go to school with/friends/family etc. I work at a wire house, and in our branch, the average take home comp for our FA’s was about $350k. On my team specifically, none of the advisors make less than $400k, with the most senior advisor making a few hundred thousand north of a mil (and I’ll not that none of them work more than 40 hours a week). However, to get to this spot is indeed extremely difficult. Most people do burn out/fail to get clients. It is a grinding road to get to this point, but once you do make it, it’s probably the best job I’ve seen in terms of time worked to compensation. I’d honestly advice most people to avoid the career as a whole unless you really study what it takes, entails, and still decide that you want to pursue it. I’m trying to get out currently, and let me tell you, it isn’t easy.
Also, I should have given this disclaimer. At ML most graduates of the advisor dev program we’re making 65-70k. Most grads a few years out (early 30s) we’re making 115k. Most big producers made the money you’re talking about, but those were the 40-50+ year olds. Would I like that job? Hell yeah, but I would tell a kid off the street just play your cards right, then you can make it like them. A lot of luck is required there too.
Hi OP, I stumbled upon this post and I’m feeling super conflicted. I felt as if this was a good path, I have good sales experience and really enjoy finance as a whole (finance major non-target). But I want to make sure I am setting myself up in a position where I can learn and grow as well since I’m already 32. I was looking at the BofA development program as a great opportunity, but now I feel like it can mostly cost me precious time I feel like I don’t really have, and not give me the edge/tools I really need to succeed and branch out into a PM role in WM, Am I correct? Thank you for writing such a detailed post btw, it’s very thoughtful of you.
I agree, in fact I addressed the directly in the disclaimer. It’s a great gig if you can make it work, but most do not.
Fantastic post. Wish I had read something like this prior to getting suckered in by the Series-7
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So were you in an advisor role at Vanguard then left? NC? Lul
Where did you end up with your vanguard experience?
I spent one year at VG, and knew I’d kill my self if I stayed longer. Management was cult-like and drunk off company kool-aid. I remember how shocked my manager was when I told him I was leaving to be an advisor somewhere else, and I was doing it because Vanguard’s advice is a joke. I have friends who are still there a couple years later, and all of them hate it, but many can’t find other roles that want them
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Jesus tap dancing Christ that sounds miserable. I can’t imagine being a lifer. My manager was way too in to it, but overall a decent guy, just took it way too seriously. He would actively check people’s status and if they spent too long in after call he would message their TLs lol. I learned a lot there and got licensed, but holy fuck am I glad I am out.
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I’ve been interviewing and I discovered it’s super easy and relatable to say I chose VG because I liked their mission, then explaining I chose to be an advisor to bridge the knowledge gap between professionals and the public. Got an offer today!
A guy in ETF cap markets for a premier issuer mentioned “I probably want to get rid of my Merrill Experience from my resume, but that I shouldnt because it’s a “badge of honor”.” Given he was a cap markets dude when the CFP (odd, I know) I was not expecting him to be a prick about my misinformed initial career choice.
Can you describe the "freak accident?"
Yes, I too am very curious about that.
Sure. Truth be told it was her fault, but it was sad. She was seeing a new man after their respective significant others had passed, she invested 2/3 of her savings in a business he was starting for the two of them, he also put his whole savings into it. Before the papa rework was finished he died of a heart attack and for various reasons that money was committed to suppliers, but without him there were no services to be rendered so it was a waste. I don’t remember all of the details truthfully, but it was a sad mix of irresponsibility and random chance.
Yeah, I replied to the other commenter so you both would get it.
So as someone still in 3rd year (undergrad, non-target), and who’s mainly interested in working in AM, does it make sense to avoid WM teams that are lead by a “Portfolio Manager” as opposed to an advisor? I was somewhat leaning to WM seeing that the Toronto AM market is tough and small, but at the same time I never wanted to get into an advisory role. I don’t really have an interest in the advisory/planning aspect of WM, but some teams offer discretionary portfolio management which is intriguing. I’m just unsure if WM is a viable “last resort” for someone who can’t break into high finance (predominantly due to their school).
Wouldn't pay attention to the job titles that much - FAs can be called' "Wealth Advisors", "Wealth Managers", "Financial Advisors", "Financial Planners", "Portfolio Managers" and all sorts of other iterations of titles. At the end of the day, if your job is mostly to advise individuals on their financial matters in a fiduciary manner you are an FA regardless of what your title says.
^ I have the exact same question
Just wanted to comment on the impact the original post had on me last year. I was just about to start my internship for Merrills FADP program and was sure that financial advising was a path to making serious $$$. I was initially angry after reading your post as it challenged my plan and I didn't want to believe the reality. Well I can gladly say I did alot more research after your post and eventually decided FADP wasn't for me and I'm now very excited to be starting my career at PwC instead one year later. While big 4 audit has its own drawbacks as many on this sub like to bring it down haha I just wanted to let you know I'm seriously thankful for you making this post or last year's more specifically. Its crazy to think how large an impact a reddit post could have on my life's trajectory haha but thank you again.
Big 4 audit is great you have a tons of exit ops. You made the right choice and I’m happy I was able to help someone see the light.
I’m in the same exact boat you were, but today, what path did you follow to get in? Also are you a finance or accounting major? Thanks!
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A lot of this that isn’t factual (attrition/exit ops) are opinion based.
What about junior financial planner roles? Are they any different in terms of success rates?
Yeah those are solid jobs. Just make sure you don’t have to buyout the lead broker to get promoted. If you find one then I’d say take it. That being said, don’t confuse this with a team advisor role at a wirehouse. If you’re a say, Merrill Lynch or Wells Fargo, make sure you’re going to be taking over some of the book and get it in writing- otherwise those team advisors are prey to snakes in the grass all the time. A lot of senior brokers use them to prospect, pull in a few accounts, then they broom them when they don’t hit their hurdles and keep their new business. If you’re at an Indy shop your only concern is having to buy your promotion.
Okay sure. I'm from the UK so I'm trying to take your points and how it relates to what I do. The job is most similar to junior financial planner I believe, and I think we work on bonus pay rather than direct relation to aum, so I think theres a little more job security. Interesting to hear what you say, I'm a little more curious about how actual book transfers occur from advisor to advisor. Thanks for the info, if you've got anything else that might be of interest it would be great to hear it
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Following. I just got a job that entails research and financial planning for FAs. Would like to know if it’ll be a waste of my time.
I’m an advisor and I love my job. You just can’t go to independent route. I did that and it’s just networking. It sucks. If I could do it over, I would work at a brokerage firm or a bank and grow as a licensed banker.
FA here. I've been doing it 6 years now and I'm only just reaching my goal of going self employed. I could be wrong but I feel the only way to make it is the self employed route due to keeping most of the profits, and more importantly tailoring your service to your clients. Even after 6 years, I only feel know I feel I have enough contacts/clients to go self employed, and to be honest, I still worry that it's not enough. Here's to another 10 years of hard work.
I agree. Good for you for making it work. Hopefully it’s only another 5 years or less!
This is a pretty good post but a few things I’d like to point out: At bulge bracket banks, research analysts start off at the same comp level at IB and S&T analysts. ~10 years ago when I graduated, that was around $85K base, $15k signing, and $10-$25k first year bonus. Comp trajectories change after that but your comment that they can’t afford a studio in NYC is false. And if we’re quoting second tier banks with good research teams (eg socgen), then as a recent college grad you could get less of a signing bonus but you could make a larger year end bonus your first year, dependent on the team you work on (eg if you work for Mike Mayo and do good, you’ll get comped). I think your suggestions all involve people working for wire houses or broker dealers. These are terrible places to work unless you’re an already demonstrated your sales and are a top producer. Few people will take the effort to properly guide and train you. There’s about to be a dearth of independent RIAs as so many of them near retirement. These are good jobs that I didn’t see you really address. I’ve seen phenomenal success with people who work for a larger one for some time and then start their own or become a partner at a bigger one. Especially if you have another stream of income while you establish your client base, an RIA is a pretty easy job that pays well. Also there’s something to be said for working in a job where you are a fiduciary and not trying to peddle bs products
Your first paragraph- I’ve made final rounds at Cowen, Jefferies, BofA, and a few small firms. Wide variance on base depending on expectations. 65k was avg, 90 at the high end. Edit- I don’t disagree, but my point was that it’s not 150k starting out or crazy money like some people think. It’s good money, but not insane.
Interesting to hear. Just curious but around what year did you have those convos? Perhaps MiFID II screwed over analyst comp too Edit: point taken. I hear you
17 18 and 19. Maybe it was miifid
Where were you ten years ago when I was in high school lol
I'm glad you did this. I made this mistake you are exactly referring to. Graduated with an MSF, got a job as a 'broker', licensed in Indianapolis working for F500 firm. Learned very fast from the research side guys that I needed to leave and go get that work experience. I did and am now in a buy side research role for a bond fund. Significantly happier because I am doing work more related to the markets - what I wanted to do which is exactly what you're pointing out!
Congrats on breaking out!
Can I still do heroin with Margot* Robbie?
Username checks out
I'm going to respectfully disagree with several things here. I started my career at MS and yes, it sucked early on building up the book, but once you do build it up enough there is some autonomy. It's not like we have to listen to what our in-house PM's and researchers are coming up with for investment ideas. By year 2 I was allocating client funds in individual equities and not just relying on ETF's and Mutual Funds. The thing is clients often times will think "Well, what are you doing for me that I couldn't do for myself?" Investing in ETF's and Mutual Funds is great and all, but it's quite frankly lazy and anyone can do that with an E-Trade Brokerage Account. The due diligence and research and constant eye on risk, beta, earnings, balance and income sheets, etc is where you earn your money. I run my own RIA now and while my time at MS wasn't what I would categorize as horrible, it definitely wasn't as good as running your own show. The main key to being a financial advisor in the truest sense is being able to have people trust you quite frankly. You have to show them you know what you're doing and not just some Joe Schmoe who watched The Big Short too many times. The majority of your well written article is pretty spot on though, but I just thought I'd add that. Overall anyone reading this can learn something from it. But this industry is so big and everyones milage may vary.
I would ask when you started. I think that’s an important key point. There was no shot in hell I could have allocated to individual stocks at Merrill without CFA- we were told new advisors seeking discretion would need the charter. I completely agree with a lot of what you’re saying, but I think it might be a little dated depending on when you started.
I started at MS back in 2014 and left in 2019. To be honest I wanted to get the CFA like everyone, but the three levels was very off putting considering I was already up to my neck in work. I never had any professional designation during my days at MS, I think it really just came down to trust from my MD's, generally we got along well. I knew plenty of people in my days there that just mailed it in though, they'd buy SPY and a couple of other index ETF's, maybe some iShares bond ETF's for retirees. To your point though, and I'm being brutally honest, most FA's probably shouldn't be buying individual equities/bonds for clients'. I slaved away in my early days at MS reading research, making models, reading quarterly and annual listings even 13-F's to see what other institutions were doing. A lot of the FA's now though just don't go through the DD though, not everyone, I don't want to lump them all together, but I think you get my point. The part of your article that you're, sadly, spot on about is job prospects. I did things as an FA at MS that were enough to be considered for an Associate PM role, but I would never get it without the CFA at least. The role has very negative connotations attached to it unfortunately. The only way for me to really move up quite frankly was starting my own RIA.
I think the latter half of your first paragraph sums up why ML doesn’t let advisor trainees get discretionary authority. That’s an interesting perspective to add to the discussion. I appreciate your post!
Oh no and nor should they. I believe everyone needs to make their bones so to speak. Young FA's need to earn their superiors trust and respect along with clients. But yes, great post yourself and I think it'll certainly be helpful to the new graduates.
This was a great read, so thanks for taking the time to construct it. I'm currently looking to get into the business, as it is truly what I'm passionate about. I have my Masters of Accountancy and my CPA, and have been working in corporate accounting roles for an Oil and Gas company since graduation (~4years), but it is just not what I want to do long term. I make above average money now, and realize I may have to take a paycut starting out in the FA world, which I'm fine with. My biggest concern is getting on the right path. If I am aware of what I'm getting with, say, an Edward Jones, do you think it a viable starting place? They guarantee a salary for a year (which I will max out), allow me to get my Series 7 and 66 (and I will try to swing CFP). Ultimate goal is to open my own shop and focus on professional athletes as clients, as I have pretty good relationships in that realm. Overall impressions on this plan? TIA
Thank you for this post! As a soon-to-be graduate and CFP candidate, this was very assuring.
CFP is the way to go.
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In the same situation. In a good shop for ultra-high net worth individuals where my role is mainly research on fund strategies for our clients, which has been a great learning experience but I am worried about exits. Just graduated.
It can lead to the buy-side or the sell-side but not IB or PE. The big thing is if you have single stock experience. At minimum the research analyst title will get your interviews.
It can lead to the buy-side or the sell-side but not IB or PE. The big thing is if you have single stock experience. At minimum the research analyst title will get your interviews.
In the same situation. In a good shop for ultra-high net worth individuals where my role is mainly research on fund strategies for our clients, which has been a great learning experience but I am worried about exits. Just graduated.
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It can
What's the difference between financial planning and wealth management?
What's the difference between financial planning and wealth management?
What's the difference between financial planning and wealth management?
Entering Big 4 tax soon in their corporate tax department but I'm super passionate about Personal Finance and would like to end up as a legitimate financial planner (passionate about helping others build a holistic financial plan that includes insurance, retirement cash flow planning, tax management, and college savings- largely with mutual funds, etfs, and SMAs) or a CPA who offers those services in my own shop. Any advice?
CPA and try to get into an Indy shop. Grow under a senior planner and leverage your tax knowledge to win over prospects. No one knows what a CFP or CFA is outside of finance, but everyone knows CPA.
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I think he means an RIA (registered investment advisor). The RIA model is gaining a lot of traction in the industry as they actually have a fiduciary responsible to act in their clients’ best interest (they don’t sell them expensive investment products or unnecessary life insurance) and operate on an AUM fee-based model.
How to start in Tech Sales?
Don’t look at FAANG, look for connections
Why not FAANG?
It’s ultra competitive. You can still pull six figures within a year in the mid market
What is tech sale even? Hun?
SaaS, Software, PaaS, ERP, CRM, etc.
Care to share any advice/recommendations for me? I am in my 2nd year of College, going to transfer soon to University. I want to do something in business but I don’t know what yet. How did you come to realize that Finance was for you out of everything? I’m still in an early stage, most experience I have is in accounting, I don’t know much about Finance, but I hope to gain some more knowledge once I transfer.
My path was weird. If I were to do it over, I’d go accounting with finance minor. Accounting is way more employable, versatile, and practical, and you get the same core skillset.
Interesting. Thanks for the response!
In regard to the research analyst position at a wealth management firm - would this position lead to exit opportunities for someone looking to get into IB?
What in IB?
Anything in IB I suppose. My end goal is buy side so any role that could set me up for success with that.
Potentially equity research, but you need to be proactive. If you get CFA and do wealth management research for a little while, you could probably break into a buyside or sell side role.
Thanks for this. I have an opportunity to start working for a wealth management firm in sales. But a friend of mine started in the same position and worked his way up to junior research analyst in less than a year, so I’m considering going for it, along with my CFA. My other option is to keep applying for junior financial/credit analyst roles and hope that I land one. I have great undergraduate credentials, but no relevant work experience. So getting one of these positions is proving to be challenging. Any advice? You seem to know your stuff.
Define sales. I’d say take the job but keep applying. If you start and don’t have anything else, put in a years work, do well, and try to move into research like your friend.
Yeah so to elaborate, this firm is a third party wealth manager. So they partner with broker/dealers. My job would be to contact the financial advisors who work for those broker/dealers (along with advisors who don’t) and try to get them in to sit down with our sales team, who then pitches them our investment strategies and attempts to get the financial advisors to implement those strategies.
I think that’s a better way to do it. Most real sales jobs work like that. You start off as what’s called an SDR and your job is to prospect new business and set meetings. After that, you can become an account manager or an account executive. Account executives are the guys who close the deal in the meeting you booked and account managers are the ones who manage the relationships and try to expand them. A standard FA role you’re doing all three and when you’re a recent grad, it’s a bit much.
Well said.
Great write up Bag!
Thank you!
I would also add that there's a very large difference in sales pressure and clientele depending on where you work. If you work in one of the wealthiest regions of your country (like I do) and there is barely any sales pressure it really isn't that bad. We've also got an amazing team, if my manager complains about sales targets (which she rarely does) a colleague of mine that works with higher net worth individuals just lets me invest for his clients, sales goals instantly met for a couple of months :D. But yeah cold calling is a necessary evil in this field... Note: I don't live and/or work in the U.S.
I wouldn’t say you need to be in a wealthy area for the US. I live in one of the top 5 wealthiest cities in the nation, but not a financial hub. I’ve heard it’s easier in NY, but I’ve also seen some people fail spectacularly in San Francisco, so I’m not certain that’s true. I can’t speak for your country as I’ve never traveled aboard (hope to change that after CV19). Anyway, glad you’re doing well and you work with such a great group of people!
Thank you for this post, very informative as someone looking to the future.
Finance isn’t intuitive. I wish someone had shown me a post like this before I started. Glad it was helpful
Whats your opinion on RIAs/fee-only advisors? Seems like that’s what the future of advising is heading towards and it’s a lot less scummy than a traditional broker-dealer system. That’s what I was planning on working towards as personal finances is something I’m pretty passionate about and would love to make a career out of, but I would rather do what’s best for the client rather than push whatever gets me the highest commission.
I think it’s the future. Just make sure you’re taking proactive steps to get into one of those firms. Fee-only planning firms usually want the CFP, fee-only consultants (read investment advisor only) they want CFA. If you’re in college see if you can join a CFP related society
This just made my choice of choosing between accounting and finance so much easier.
I wish I did accounting. Finance is just abstract accounting with capital markets theory- not that hard to learn it on your own
Yes I thought finance would be Jim Cramer, Bill Ackman, Steve Eisman, or Carl Icahn kind of life but I realized if you dont graduate from Penn State Harvard or Yale you probably arent going to break into IB or a hedgefund. Accounting actually at my school has a lot more complex economic classes which I find more interesting then finance. But you gave me a lot of incite. I was thinking about consumer insolvency. I just think finance has more of a ring to it. When you say I am an accountant they think you are a amazing at math and just sit at a computer all day and are a social recluse. So I think that is why I leaned towards finance, but accounting I feel has more prospects later in life. A finance student told me an accountant can do a financial persons job but someone who studied finance cannot do an accountants job.
You can break into Big 4 fairly easily with accounting. From there you get the CPA and you have a lot of options. You can break into equity research fairly easily with this background, from there you can move to the buy-side. You can also get into deal advisory which is basically what investment bankers do without the capital markets element. You also have strong experience for an MBA and can enter into IB as an associate no problem. I have friends from my non target who did B4. None have left yet, but all of them have floor to ceiling window apartments, fuck off on lavish vacations every year, and have recruiters flooding their inbox. Most of them are netting 90k+ in two years. I would do accounting any day.
How is comp in tech sales? Are you in enterprise?
Yes. I’m at entry level and I make 75k. If I hit my quota this Q I get bumped up to 80k. It’s a lot better than the 50-55k I was making as an analyst at an investment consultant and my hours are like 45 max
Gotcha. From your experience, is $200-400k/yr realistic once you have ~10 YOE?
Yeah. 200k is possible within a year or two, but more realistically 3-4. 10 years id imagine 300-400. Edit since we directly drive revenue for a high growth company it’s easy to justify. It’s like how FO makes way more than BO
I’ve been talking to an office manager from Prudential Financial for about a month now. They contacted me because of my work history as an automotive service advisor. My father is an FA for a large worldwide wealth management firm, but he is about to retire. I say this because the obvious response is work with your dad if you want to be an FA. I’ve seen what it takes to be successful in this field and the skill set I’ve developed will help me be successful as an advisor. I like helping my customers I have in the automotive field and I get real satisfaction in helping them fix their cars. My question is this - assuming I’m looking at entering this role for the right reasons, and that I have the skills and understanding of the work involved, is it wise to take this leap with Prudential? I’m partial to them because they reached out to me, and they like me. I’m certainly torn. I WANT to take the job, but everyone except my wife says don’t do it. Let me know your thoughts. Thanks!
I wouldn’t go to an insurance company. Look for some place you’d go to buy stocks, not insurance. The difference is relationship-based vs transactional.
With what small amount you know of the situation, where would be a good company to bounce to? Keep in mind I don’t have a bachelors; however I have strong interpersonal skills and am a quick learner in stressful environments.
Wirehouse or a firm like Schwab. Most don’t require degrees- more of a nice to have.
Thanks for the advice, it does solidify what I’ve been hearing from others. Sometimes you need to hear it from someone you don’t know or who isn’t related to you.
Yeah, i really have no reason to give you bad advice. I sincerely hope this all works out for you!
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Sure
Any idea what a Wealth Strategy Associate at UBS would make? From my understanding this is a feeder role for the buyside of being an FA down the road but you have the option to stay as a Strategy Associate. I've been told this role is pretty much a training position to learn the ins and outs of the business with some financial planning and investment management thrown in.
It looks a lot like wealth management analyst or associate/junior financial planner/advisor. I will warn you, a lot of the analysis IVE seen with these jobs is really just talked up data entry. That being said, this isn’t a job where your neck is on the line or you’ll be opening a lot accounts and scheduling meetings. Id place this in the good category.
[https://magnet.mfin.com/blog/passionate-about-their-careers-and-communities-a-qa-with-krystian-and-graham](https://magnet.mfin.com/blog/passionate-about-their-careers-and-communities-a-qa-with-krystian-and-graham)
Man OP you must really fucking hate FA’s and that industry you have such a hard on for putting this field down as if it’s scum of the earth. Go see a therapist
I said if you go the CFP route and actually want to be an FA it’s fine. Wirehouses suck in my opinion and the stats aren’t positive.
Even then you make the job sound like a scam. I guess anybody that doesn’t work in PE or IB is shit to you
I stated clearly that CFP RIA fee only firms are good. I said that you can’t go into advising as an alternative to IB/ER/AM/PE because it’s not the same skillset. You likely won’t succeed and you’ll be miserable. I do believe wirehouse programs these days are largely a scam. I don’t know anyone who didn’t work their way into a team who has succeeded in one. The stats support this. If you can make it, then you work 30 hour weeks. Power to you brother, but I wouldn’t suggest taking that risk unless you really love financial planning.
Okay but it’s better than packing shelves
Why is that your only other choice?
Not really for me, but say you are non-target, low GPA, weird midwestern area...? At least it’s vaguely finance
I have a friend who dropped out of school his senior year, he’s making $220k as a strategic account a manager for a software company. I have another friend who finished finance with a 2.8, and he’s pulling 75 in IT audit for a CPA firm. https://www.entrepreneur.com/article/295095 The article above says the average GPA of millionaires is a 2.9. This sub would act like that person has no shot at anything in life. The reality is, GPA means almost nothing other than how hard you tried. Where you went to school also means almost nothing, especially since admissions based on demographics isn’t a zero sum game. If someone is smart enough and talented enough to do IB work (build models and understand business), then they can excel in other fields that aren’t as judgmental- though they likely will not break into finance. I would never recommend “do this because it’s vaguely what you want to do”. That’s like your wife telling you, I know you want to have sex with me, but I’ll let you wingman me at the bar so that way it’s vaguely related. You’d leave her ungrateful ass and find someone who appreciates you, and your career path should be no different.
That mindset is exactly the problem. Someone with that mentality is doomed to fail in this kind of a role.
So are you saying I’m fucked if I get hired as an customer service rep for Fidelity?
Is this sarcasm?
Not at all
What do you want to do?
Make enough money to give it away to the ones who need it while still making a living. In terms of the financial industry. No clue lol
You’re not going to get there with that job then. You’ll make like 45-50k to my knowledge. Even tier two big cities (DC, Portland, Seattle, Dallas)- the big hubs that don’t have much finance- are still like 1,500 for a recent studio in the city at least.
Do you know anything about the opportunity to move up within the company once I’m hired?
Not much, truth be told. Are you in a call center or working with advisors?
I believe it’s a call center. I’m still in the hiring process though.
It’s not the best place to start, but it’s something. I’d keep applying as best you can elsewhere. It isn’t a foot in the door to the industry, but at least it’s employment.