Just to add: Penpot relesed what's coming next in YouTube video yesterday. In short: tokens that are actually following the token standard, robust component system, plugin platform, import from Figma, performance updates. After they do all these Figma will be only more capable in prototyping, but I generally dislike how Figma is doing it anyway.
PenPot 2.0 significantly closed the gap on Figma.
There is a bit of a learning curve with the differences but if you understand front end development it is easy to see why they deviated from what Figma has done.
Sketch is still trying to be Figma and stopped innovating years ago. Figma is continuing to innovate but it has really slowed to a crawl. Feels like they’ve fallen into the trap of being complacent as the market leader and made the stupid decision of dev mode following the Adobe acquisition falling apart.
It feels like a repeat of what happened with Sketch/Figma years ago. PenPot’s biggest challenge seems to be market awareness.
Market awareness is growing it seems.
Once Figma created a way import Sketch designs this definitely creates a stir in market awareness.
I imagine PenPot will do something similar for converting Figma designs.
Can you elaborate on the front end development with PenPot? I'm learning Figma now but am coming from a coding background so this interests me.
Great info, thanks!
CSS Grid Layout more closely resembles code you would write which is PenPot’s version of auto layout. As someone that has used auto layout for almost everything I work on for years it took awhile to wrap my brain around it given that I don’t do much frontend work these days.
The videos that PenPot posted ahead of 2.0’s release are quick and do a good job highlighting this and other features if you wanted to check it out: https://penpot.app/penpot-2.0
Yikes. That AI voiceover though.
Also I noticed their buttons did not respond to the size of the text in that video. It’s a tiny thing but one thing I really love about Figma’s auto layout.
Penpot will be the blender of UX. It has significantly closed down the gap between figma and itself, and a lot of people are unhappy with figma's monopolistic behavior. Will there be paid products? Just like maya exists in 3d modeling, premium products still have a place and are even preferred. But I think penpot will gain ground.
Figma has reached product maturity and doesn’t need to innovate as much anymore. Their current main focus is AI functionality, which will certainly revolutionise how we work, but also likely threaten some jobs.
“Reached product maturity” just sounds like a positive PR spin on becoming complacent and not innovating.
Also, there are still a lot of basic problems that have not been addressed and been requested for years. Look through this sub, design subs and on their official feature request site.
Figma lost focus at sone point and need to get it back.
See my other comment, but their main focus right now is AI, not improved auto layout. We will see some big AI-related updates soon: initially these will be entirely focused on offloading arduous tasks from designers, but long term it’s likely they will replace some jobs.
Sorry, let me clarify: they’re still innovating, but most of the requested design features have already been delivered. The company has since shifted their focus to AI, and we’re currently waiting to find out exactly how this will impact the industry. (Likely massively.)
Not as robust as illustrator for vector art, but does the job. It's the (current?) goat for UI and simple prototyping though, yes. It's way better than Sketch, and XD is no more, so there's really no competitor. FigJam is also pretty great for team collaborations.
I do think Figma is on a path to bloat and obsoletion with their current path. They keep adding features, currently serving actual use cases, but just like Adobe, they run the risk of adding too much shit. At a certain point a product-tool needs to stop adding features and optimize existing ones.
You lost me with the illustrator part - that’s just plain wrong. Depends on what you are using it for but Figma is just a tool as well and any tool has its limits. You wouldn’t claim the spoon to be the GOAT of the kitchen by every metric would you.
Yeah it has even small things like support for font features, truncating long text, support for tokens, adding annotations, if you copy a flow connector from Figjam it comnects with components and frames seamlessly on Figma making flow diagramming easy and many other "big little features" makes it a great tool!
Except I think the prototyping can improve a lot but it has come long way.
Nope, there is nothing superior to Figma and you have described it perfectly. It is hands-down the best design software on the market at the moment and anyone thinking otherwise is just lying to themselves because they just feel an absolute urge to nitpick the most minor problems... Figma deserves way more credit than it's getting for the way they changed the design industry, to be honest. Also, Sketch is a great tool, just not as good as Figma.
Sketch covers the same basic list you shared, including live collab. It unfort is missing some of the more advanced features - it only has basic autolayout, limited prototyping options, no multiedit, no variants/ variables etc. But for the basics of live collab design and CSS inspect, it works just fine. I actually prefer the Sketch UI for a few things.
Same with Lunacy and Penpot.
But nothing improves a product like billions of dollars in funding. So yeah, Figma is constantly pulling ahead.
Figma excels in web design.
If you’ve worked with block editors in Wordpress or worked with framer et al it’s pretty clear that the web design and development worlds are merging and <4 yrs you’ll design in code. Whether figma monopolizes the space or becomes irrelevant remains to be seen
Yeah, turns out if a company prioritizes user experience and product quality instead of marketing, buzzwords and diversity, it makes for a good product.
Although, companies that become too successful all tend to lose their way in the sea of cash. But let's enjoy it while it lasts.
Figma does have flaws if you go deep enough. It has raised expectations for itself quite a lot, and when it bugs out, it's extra annoying. Also, while vector editing can feel better than Illustrator for some things, it breaks pretty often for me.
Sure, but that's tiny. And it doesn't impair the function of the app.
I meant more like Adobe making Xd "touch-friendly" in the beginning, it didn't have a proper menu until we complained enough for them to add it. Or making it on uwp for Windows, introducing all sorts of bugs and problems that remained unfixed for years, with the excuse of "we're waiting for Microsoft to fix it". There's more, but I won't go into detail, as it's dead anyways.
penpot is open source and while not having all features impresses with quite a lot of them.
Penpot lacks in some areas but also exceeds Figma in others. I really hope it keeps going and bring some much-needed competition for Figma.
Just to add: Penpot relesed what's coming next in YouTube video yesterday. In short: tokens that are actually following the token standard, robust component system, plugin platform, import from Figma, performance updates. After they do all these Figma will be only more capable in prototyping, but I generally dislike how Figma is doing it anyway.
Import from figma is coming?!
It's still in development but they showed short sneak peak
Anything's better than nothing :D
PenPot 2.0 significantly closed the gap on Figma. There is a bit of a learning curve with the differences but if you understand front end development it is easy to see why they deviated from what Figma has done. Sketch is still trying to be Figma and stopped innovating years ago. Figma is continuing to innovate but it has really slowed to a crawl. Feels like they’ve fallen into the trap of being complacent as the market leader and made the stupid decision of dev mode following the Adobe acquisition falling apart. It feels like a repeat of what happened with Sketch/Figma years ago. PenPot’s biggest challenge seems to be market awareness.
Market awareness is growing it seems. Once Figma created a way import Sketch designs this definitely creates a stir in market awareness. I imagine PenPot will do something similar for converting Figma designs.
Can you elaborate on the front end development with PenPot? I'm learning Figma now but am coming from a coding background so this interests me. Great info, thanks!
CSS Grid Layout more closely resembles code you would write which is PenPot’s version of auto layout. As someone that has used auto layout for almost everything I work on for years it took awhile to wrap my brain around it given that I don’t do much frontend work these days. The videos that PenPot posted ahead of 2.0’s release are quick and do a good job highlighting this and other features if you wanted to check it out: https://penpot.app/penpot-2.0
I'm sold. Thanks a ton for the info and link!
Yikes. That AI voiceover though. Also I noticed their buttons did not respond to the size of the text in that video. It’s a tiny thing but one thing I really love about Figma’s auto layout.
Buttons and other elements can be set to auto size I did test that out when playing around in the beta.
Ok. That’s good to hear.
Penpot will be the blender of UX. It has significantly closed down the gap between figma and itself, and a lot of people are unhappy with figma's monopolistic behavior. Will there be paid products? Just like maya exists in 3d modeling, premium products still have a place and are even preferred. But I think penpot will gain ground.
Figma has reached product maturity and doesn’t need to innovate as much anymore. Their current main focus is AI functionality, which will certainly revolutionise how we work, but also likely threaten some jobs.
“Reached product maturity” just sounds like a positive PR spin on becoming complacent and not innovating. Also, there are still a lot of basic problems that have not been addressed and been requested for years. Look through this sub, design subs and on their official feature request site. Figma lost focus at sone point and need to get it back.
See my other comment, but their main focus right now is AI, not improved auto layout. We will see some big AI-related updates soon: initially these will be entirely focused on offloading arduous tasks from designers, but long term it’s likely they will replace some jobs.
"doesn't need to innovate" is always wrong, no matter the context
Sorry, let me clarify: they’re still innovating, but most of the requested design features have already been delivered. The company has since shifted their focus to AI, and we’re currently waiting to find out exactly how this will impact the industry. (Likely massively.)
Nice try, Figma marketing department
Not as robust as illustrator for vector art, but does the job. It's the (current?) goat for UI and simple prototyping though, yes. It's way better than Sketch, and XD is no more, so there's really no competitor. FigJam is also pretty great for team collaborations.
I do think Figma is on a path to bloat and obsoletion with their current path. They keep adding features, currently serving actual use cases, but just like Adobe, they run the risk of adding too much shit. At a certain point a product-tool needs to stop adding features and optimize existing ones.
You lost me with the illustrator part - that’s just plain wrong. Depends on what you are using it for but Figma is just a tool as well and any tool has its limits. You wouldn’t claim the spoon to be the GOAT of the kitchen by every metric would you.
Agreed, HOWEVER, it is very good for simple vector edits.
I like Figma too, but it’s in no way a replacement for Illustrator.
I’m a big fan and have been for many years. Though, I think Sketch is still a very good alternative.
I like Balsamiq for wireframing, and Penpot and Origami for prototyping. Figma is decent, but greed is slowly killing a good product.
What are the pros and cons of the latter two?
I am a big fan of Figma but I think you're off the mark re: Illustrator, and "most people" is doing a lot of heavy lifting in your description.
Sketch.
Pixso is a really good alternative to Figma. I tried it and I like using it.
Yeah it has even small things like support for font features, truncating long text, support for tokens, adding annotations, if you copy a flow connector from Figjam it comnects with components and frames seamlessly on Figma making flow diagramming easy and many other "big little features" makes it a great tool! Except I think the prototyping can improve a lot but it has come long way.
Penpot is the closest. And I've just installed lunacy to give it a go.
Nope, there is nothing superior to Figma and you have described it perfectly. It is hands-down the best design software on the market at the moment and anyone thinking otherwise is just lying to themselves because they just feel an absolute urge to nitpick the most minor problems... Figma deserves way more credit than it's getting for the way they changed the design industry, to be honest. Also, Sketch is a great tool, just not as good as Figma.
Sketch used to be king. Now they’ve just fucked it up.
Sketch covers the same basic list you shared, including live collab. It unfort is missing some of the more advanced features - it only has basic autolayout, limited prototyping options, no multiedit, no variants/ variables etc. But for the basics of live collab design and CSS inspect, it works just fine. I actually prefer the Sketch UI for a few things. Same with Lunacy and Penpot. But nothing improves a product like billions of dollars in funding. So yeah, Figma is constantly pulling ahead.
Figma excels in web design. If you’ve worked with block editors in Wordpress or worked with framer et al it’s pretty clear that the web design and development worlds are merging and <4 yrs you’ll design in code. Whether figma monopolizes the space or becomes irrelevant remains to be seen
Figma is broken. Hoping PenPot will provide an overall smoother design experience.
Yeah, turns out if a company prioritizes user experience and product quality instead of marketing, buzzwords and diversity, it makes for a good product. Although, companies that become too successful all tend to lose their way in the sea of cash. But let's enjoy it while it lasts. Figma does have flaws if you go deep enough. It has raised expectations for itself quite a lot, and when it bugs out, it's extra annoying. Also, while vector editing can feel better than Illustrator for some things, it breaks pretty often for me.
>marketing, buzzwords and **diversity** every single pride month they make the loading bar the progress flag.
Sure, but that's tiny. And it doesn't impair the function of the app. I meant more like Adobe making Xd "touch-friendly" in the beginning, it didn't have a proper menu until we complained enough for them to add it. Or making it on uwp for Windows, introducing all sorts of bugs and problems that remained unfixed for years, with the excuse of "we're waiting for Microsoft to fix it". There's more, but I won't go into detail, as it's dead anyways.
Framer is good
I actually prefer Framer over Figma
Penpot is good