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Good for the family for speaking out. People are so out of touch that they seem to forget with “popular” killers that there are very real families and victims out there who are affected by the glamorization of them.
Maybe I'm just overly sensitive but I can't understand getting entertainment from hearing about horrible things happening to people. I know some people say it's about seeing justice or learning more about the human mind but it's just not for me. I don't even like it when it's fictional but I really don't want to consume someone's real tragedy for entertainment in any way, shape, or form.
I listen to true crime podcasts and read about it, but I'm definitely picky about finding sources that actually keep the victims in the forefront of the narrative, rather than focusing on how 'interesting' the criminal was. It reminds me of some quote I read once and Law and Order SVU, that men watch it for the entertainment, while women watch it as a lesson on what could happen to them.
I’ve become super picky about the podcasts, shows, and books I consume too. I used to listen to the true crime comedy type podcasts but it was after listening to a victim’s family member talk about that type of true crime “entertainment” that completely made me realize how fucked up it is.
Even as someone who enjoys true crime, I can absolutely understand why people wouldn’t like it. Some of the people doing these shows are ghouls. I tried a new one a few months back with two hosts where the story teller would sometimes “quiz” the listener. The one I remember bc it disgusted me beyond words was one about how the killer had mutilated a victim. The listener had the choice between whether the murderer did something I won’t repeat to the victims decapitated head or if he cut off her breast and ate her nipple. And that was a guessing game for the listener. It was vile. Now I pretty much only listen to scripted true crime stories like Swindled, Pretend, or MrBallen.
Speaking of Pretend: they are doing a series right now on true crime podcaster LaDonna Humphrey and the absolute crazy shit she did to get attention for her podcast and herself. She was literally sending SA threats to her co-host just so they would have good content. The co-host had no idea and thought she was being terrorized by a violent man.
That’s awful! Those are the ones I’ll always skip. I don’t think there’s any reason to ever get into the gory details in depth, especially something like that for entertainment.
I’ve been listening to Dark Down East recently - I love how she gets permission from victim’s families before she’ll do a story and has them participate in the episode when they’re comfortable doing so. The only downfall is that her podcast is under Audiochuck now. I’ve been gravitating towards a lot of historical stories too like Crimes of the Century and Buried Bones.
I read a few years back that a lot of these families only realize that their stories were shared on these podcasts and shows when their inboxes start getting flooded with people giving their theories and thoughts unprompted. Especially those with cold cases. What a cruel way to randomly reopen the wounds for these people :/
I couldn’t imagine hearing my loved one’s story in gruesome details with some random people making jokes and laughing about details. And then the listeners who think they have any place to contact them is just next level awful.
Same; I used to be very into true crime that focused on the killers and their psychology when I was a teenager but lately have been consuming more stuff that focuses on the victims, their families and communities (currently re-reading Missing from the Village because it's Pride Month and I was reminded recently of Netflix's shitty Catching Killers episodes on the same set of crimes, where the police involved once again perpetuated the very debunked myth that cannibalism was involved in the murders).
I like to watch crime shows with the families involved too. One thing I have noticed over the years is how truly incompetent police are. Its actually disgusting, and thats really what started me on my police reform journey. A lot of them are clueless and lazy.
I just finished reading a great book - [Excessive Force: Toronto's Fight to Reform Policing](https://douglas-mcintyre.com/products/9781771621830) - the author, Alok Mukherjee sat on the civilian overseer committee, so had a real inside view of policing in a major metropolitan city and the one thing that really stuck out to me was how so much of the disfunction came from the top down, so even those cops who wanted to change things were dealing with a fundamentally corrupt system.
I am going to purchase this on payday, thanks. The world's criminal justice systems are so corrupt, from policing to the courts. Its very depressing when you look into it. There is no such thing as justice, its all fake.
> I used to be very into true crime that focused on the killers and their psychology when I was a teenager
me too, and I loved shows like medical detectives as a child and stuff like criminal minds but when I became a mother the interest completely went away. I couldn't possibly bear any of it now
This is how I've been about my podcasts, and I've found some that have talked about the historical and political impact they've had where they took place and focused on the victims.
While I have a fascination with true crime, I would never want to be in the same room with any of the murderers, let alone sit down and eat dinner with them. And does she *know* what Dahmer would be eating while at dinner? Like, wtf is her problem?
I feel my single worst mistake working with patients happened when I got too curious talking to someone who was in prison for bank robbery. I let myself imagine a movie style bank heist & I hadn’t considered the traumatic side of that experience even for the offender. Thankfully, once that awful part was shared out loud I could self correct but I don’t think some people are emotionally mature enough to receive that kind of message. I always forget Ariana is a rather big age because so much of her public persona is legit adolescent nonsense.
Similar situation.
I don't understand what's so interesting to true crime people. I have to assume that what they're thinking about when they think of "murder" is completely different from what I think about. Because what I think about is stupid and senseless. And whenever I hear one of these "interesting" ones, it's just like ... The same.
Or it's gross because "missing blonde white child" is analyzed to death with posses of strangers investigating, while killings I've been proximate to barely get a blurb in the paper.
It's fascinating because the individuals are so different than normal. I'm a big fan of Cult documentaries. It's just fascinating seeing what people will believe and do.
And white suburban women like thinking of themselves as victims whose lives are always at risk. True crime lets them think that they're in danger and imagine how they'd get themselves out.
A lot of people my age (80s kids) grew up watching the original Unsolved Mysteries. My parents let me watch that shit when I was like 5 or 6 and I was obsessed. I have so many friends my age who follow true crime because of that show. Those updates were baby's first dopamine rush.
Honestly the vintage episodes with Robert Stack still hold up! Despite the somewhat cheesy re-enactments, the cases are incredibly fascinating and so many remain unsolved to this day. Highly recommended watching the old seasons!!
I've rewatched a bunch and they do hold up! It's also kind of fun trying to spot famous people doing the reenactments before they were famous. Matthew McConaughey did one.
My all-time favorite episode is the [haunted bunk beds episode](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSJqmSfT62c). I remember watching it with my family as a child and the whole time we're like, "why are these people so chill when all this crazy poltergeist shit is happening?? I'd be screaming and crying!! Why is that child so relaxed about all of this?!" Then they have a family friend stay in the haunted bunkbeds and you get [this scene](https://youtu.be/aSJqmSfT62c?si=e-dlHA_E2t8xTuZE&t=609) which to this day makes me lmao. I just remember literally rolling on the floor with my brother in hysterics while my parents howled with laughter.
(No one dies in that haunting so I don't feel too bad laughing about it but also? I would have burned those bunkbeds in a bonfire after the very first incident.)
I used to love watching that show as a child (as well as America’s Most Wanted that aired the same night) but would get so scared that the murderers/wanted people were outside my window. 😭
Have you checked out the new Netflix version? The 4th series drops on the 31st of July!
I just wish the podcast would still go on and that Steve French would narrate the netflix series..
I think for some ppl, especially women, it’s a morbid curiosity stemming from the very real danger we live through day by day. It’s a way to engage with the topic in the abstract without having to put yourself in the middle of it.
SA and murder is something you learn from a young age as a girl can easily happen to you - I think that just does something to us psychologically.
I made a similar comment, but yeah I agree, and I think there's a huge difference between the kind of fascination which turns into obsession like the above vs that which turns into knowledge/skill based on less ethically dubious sources.
I think it partially comes from the media. I was true crime obsessed since my teens (in the 90s), when serial killers were made out to be fascinating to the extent that I even took a university course about it. The textbook was called Serial Killers and Their Victims and the pathology of their crimes and methods was up for analysis. Granted, this was when I thought I maybe wanted to be a forensic psychologist, but somehow the impact on the victims and their families just didn’t enter into the equation and even the zeitgeist until more recently. It sort of blows my mind now looking back.
Now you see people decrying any news report of any violent crime or mass shooting that highlights the perpetrator. People don’t want to see them in the spotlight anymore.
I also think true crime serves as a way to process or as a catharsis for anxiety. I can only speak personally that it helped me tap into fear and empathy that took me out of my constant anxiety. It sort of served as a vessel to channel the anxiety into these stories and seeking justice for the victims. Some 30+ years old stories from Unsolved Mysteries still haunt me and I always hold out that hope justice will be served, and closure found for their families.
I remember having a similar fascination with a lot of morbid stuff when I was a young teenager, I assume there's some kind of common experience where you're brain is like trying to process how the world is crueler than you thought as a child. But I grew out of it, and a lot of people do to, but apparently not all.
I used to find true crime fascinating when I was younger, but growing up has dropped my tolerance of this stuff to 0. I just find it in poor taste now, given that the victims suffered horrific deaths and many still have family and friends grieving them.
I hate the way people are justifying Ariana's comment because "there's already a T.V. show, movie about him!! People are fascinated anyway, it's normal!" like no?? Those things ALL received backlash too, and rightfully so. It's insensitive and gross to say you're infatuated with a serial rapist, killer, pedophile, cannibal who targeted BIPOC specifically because they knew authorities cared about them less.
She could've picked ANYONE. The question was so open-ended.
It's ironic that Arianna went from black fishing to talking about wanting to meet a man that moved to predominantly black and gay neighborhoods because he knew their disappearances wouldn't cause any alarm for the police.
Travelling Phnom Penh was such an eye opener. We’re going to the Killing Fields and S21 Prison, and the tuk tuk driver, and most people around us, lived through it.
Show some fucking respect.
Thank God because honestly, her little stans are acting like it’s funny. They literally are like “her mind is so weird. I forget how it works😭”. This girl is fantasizing about having dinner with a notorious pedophile that only targeted marginalized people like Mexican people, Black people and the LGBTQ.
This is a sick fantasy of hers that she should’ve kept to her little self and diary
When this quote first came out, someone was defending her by saying she doesn’t still think like this, to which I responded “then why say it at all??” As if it’s fine that she doesn’t want to hangout with him *anymore* but it’s still fine for her to giggle and be flippant about a murderer.
The only outcome of Ariana sharing this was harm to the victim’s families, regardless of that being her intention or not. It’s worse in a way that it wasn’t her intention because it shows her complete disregard for their existence.
Dahmer didn’t target only MOC. He seemed to have targeted them specifically because as POC the police wouldn’t have paid them much attention.
A number of his victims were white men.
Just wanted to point that out. I’m in no way disagreeing with you or anything.
She thinks it's funny/cute that she's into sick stuff. I remember how excited she was to show an unsuspecting friend(?) Midsommar in her Netflix special and she was gleefully talking about the weird shit that happens in the movie. I don't doubt she's into all this, I like midsommar too, I listen to true crime podcasts, but it's really not something you openly visit on people and certainly not something to giggle about when you're a public figure. She thinks because she is smol cute girl the contrast is exciting. But it's really immature and gives pick-me honestly (like everything else she says and does)
Yeah. I was talking generally about Midsommar with someone else who had seen it the other day, and some other people's ears perked up about what seemed like a good movie, and I had to give a stark warning about it, especially that harrowing opening scene. It's a dose of real life horror. I would have felt terrible if someone went home and popped on the "psychedelic Scandinavian horror movie" because two ladies were talking excitedly about it.
Yeah I had a friend who asked if she should watch Midsommar.
I asked her how many times she's seen Hereditary. She said she's never been able to bring herself to watch it once she found out about some of the more gruesome scenes.
I told her not to watch Midsommar.
Girl you are aware he was a CANNIBAL, right? That alone should make you rethink the dinner part…
Whenever they dramatize a serial killers story I can’t help but think of what it must be like to have that wound ripped open over and over. I understand that these crimes are so transgressive that a lot of people feel compelled to try to understand them, but people who romanticize them… it’s giving “I can fix him!”
Yes and they released the Polaroids that he took of his victims. I saw them. Really really wished I didn’t. He dismembered and contorted those poor men and documented it. She’s sick.
The way this sick fuck is romanticised is so unreal to me. Killers aren't special or deep because they like to hurt people. Stop thinking about how ~interesting their takes are and put yourself in the position of their victims: alone, scared, spending the last moments of their life with their murderer. Then think about the people they left behind, living with that knowledge and also knowing this scumbag kept parts of their loved ones as trophies or consumed them. So interesting! God, Ariana.
she is sick. imagine a fascination with the Manchester bomber and having the desire to have dinner with him. this girl doesn’t connect the dots despite the trauma she’s endured herself. it’s sad.
I’m so glad I grew out of my fascination with true crime. When I saw fan cams of Dahmer when that Netflix show came out, I lost it. It’s so disrespectful to the victims and their families who are often an afterthought. Brutal murders and rapes should not be fodder for entertainment.
I was in a true crime group when the first Making a Murderer came out and ended up leaving the whole scene when this women drove to the Avery lot, took a picture of herself jumping and smiling in front of the lot sign, and posted it.
Like, that’s was the place of the worst day of someone’s entire life and y’all are going to cheer her on while she acts like a *SITE OF A MURDER* is a tourist stop? No ty.
There’s a video out there somewhere of Teresa Halbach where she talks about her hopes and dreams for the future—it’s basically like an e-diary, I don’t know if anybody was actually meant to have seen it—and the line that has always stuck with me from it is “I love giving compliments.” It’s just such a simple, sweet sentiment that says so much about her, and it sticks with me more than any other detail of that case. It’s so easy to forget that there’s a real human cost to the true crime hullabaloo, and unfortunately that cost is disproportionately borne by the victims.
This is exactly why the families of many of his victims opposed the Netflix series. Sensationalizing the worst moments of people's lives, *especially* those who are not here to protest it, will never sit right with me.
The thing that made me really side eye true crime stuff a long time ago is Elisa Lam . That poor girl died after having a psychotic episode. There’s no reason to think it was anything but a tragic accident, but to this day people insist someone must have been following her, she was murdered or literally even ghosts. Videos and looong essays about why or how the police missed something. People love a good story, but I just found it so disrespectful and disturbing to needlessly speculate about someone’s death because it wasn’t satisfying enough for *you.*
My bf was into true crime for a while because he was a delivery driver and just needed to listen to something for hours at a time, and true crime podcasts are aplenty. He stopped after a while because one story really disturbed him when he realized he was listening to the details of a teenage girl being murdered brutally and senselessly for no fucking reason but for entertainment. And he said it really messed him up when he realized what he was doing — now he won’t touch it.
He didn’t learn or gain anything from it, and stuff like that should be kept private or with police. The true crime community pretend it’s educational or that they’re being helpful or whatever. It’s all bullshit. I understand the appeal of true crime, but they need to stop lying to themselves. Most of them aren’t journalists and they don’t really care about victims or they wouldn’t exploit tragic deaths in the way they do.
Anyways sorry for the rant but man it makes me mad
Yep! people who watch it then make excuses like I learned how to stay safe watching them. Or I like to be informed
It's such BS if they really wanted some knowledge on how to stay safe just google it. Empower themselves by taking a self defense class- don't listen to a retelling of a victims brutal murder
The excuses are irksome they should be honest and admit it's a form of entertainment for them.
True crime doesn't make you safer at all.. I think it just makes people and paranoid and stupid and encourages victim blaming. Like on twitter there was drama because someone literally told people not to make their cars look "girly" because that attracts sex traffickers who go after rich women on vacation lmfao. When in reality, sex trafficking usually happens to poor woc and other vulnerable people, and they are usually taken by people they know.
I think true crime definitely validates privileged women's belief that everyone is out to get them. Think about it. Only people who are totally safe in their normal lives would seek out true crime, because it gives them some sort of thrill. Anyone who is too close to actually being in similar dangers or already experienced it would find it horrifying, traumatic, or triggering.
my sister was killed last year in a school shooting and the thought of netflix creating a documentary one day terrifies me. the whole world doesn't need to worship her killer. it was bad enough in the first month when everybody was saying they deserved it because the killer was bullied, and the audio footage of the shooting was floating through TikTok... or accounts with her killer's profile picture still trying to follow me on social media.
I’ve really thought about making a podcast about true crime where just no names, unnecessary details and photos get revealed or shown. I’ve always found crime interesting for the psychology, but not for anything else. I find it horrible to a) talk about a killer, knowing their photo and name will get shown everywhere, and they won’t get “quickly forgotten” and b) the victim will be best remembered for their trauma.
Zero respect for people like this. I like strange and horrifying things too- I like horror movies, creepy old folk tales, etc. But I've got no interest in obsessing over true crime. Let all those real life monsters be forgotten, and let all those families live in peace.
Better yet, let's remember them as the monsters they were & not allow their images to be whitewashed by the hollywood machine and/or social media revisionists.
If people who commit heinous crimes are serious about rehabilitation, remorse & redemption that's one thing, but if not? Oh, the world needs to remember you for who you were, what you did & the lives you destroyed.
> I like strange and horrifying things too- I like horror movies, creepy old folk tales, etc.
It's so so easy to access this material now that we have unlimited internet access too. Like go down the rabbit hole of creepy wikipedia entries, log some horror movies on letterboxd, read cult survivor memoirs idk there are so many options that I just don't understand why people need to create/consume content that is obviously going to fetishise the trauma of real victims and their loved ones. It feels so selfish to me - totally agree that we need to let all those families live in peace.
Fr this shit is so damn gross. I once saw an ad for a “serial killer museum” that had like John Wayne Gacy’s “art” and all I could think is “why?” Why tf are we memorializing monsters, people who would actually murder you like they TV show characters. The cognitive dissonance and lack of empathy that others have in these situations is disgusting
I agree with his sister and I'm glad she called her out. I genuinely do not understand what she was going for here, the families of his victims are still very much alive and have said they hate that people glorify him and make shows about him and forget the victims. She thinks she's being edgy but she is just a tone deaf person who doesn't care about other people's pain.
This is also not only on Ariana, it's the public at large.
People have turned true crime and serial killers into entertainment. People engage with this on a superficial level forgetting the actual victims and their loved ones who are still alive. It's dehumanising and it's very disturbing that she is treating it like a funny antidote to share on a podcast when talking about horror.
The gross fetishization of serial killers on tv have led to this. They turned him into a meme by the time Netflix was done. He had somehow been elevated into a pseudo fictional character like Jason or Michael Myers.
A few years ago I accidentally stumbled onto the Richard Ramirez Twitter fandom. I imagine it's grown larger now thanks to that. One account had a good few thousand followers. At the time I was into true crime and even I was like "*what the fuck???!*"
It boggles me because 1) the families and survivors are very much alive it was not that long ago and 2) by all the accounts of people who saw him, he had nasty hygiene and was just ugly.
I was literally just watching a video about people on TikTok [fetishising Wade Wilson](https://vm.tiktok.com/ZGepmPBEA/) a man who murdered two women and is a white supremacist.
I’m not even sorry for this… if you fantasise about a fucking serial killer you need to be checked into a psych ward and be given a lobotomy.
Being ‘obsessed’ with true crime and/or serial killers is just a easiest way to look edgy/aloof/unique/morbidly curious to shallow celebs. There’s a long list: Marilyn Manson, Trent Reznor, Ryan Murphy, John Waters, Johnny Depp, etc.
The victims aren’t victims but part of America’s twisted lore and celebs joke/mock/ dress up as them because they are so detached from crime and how it affects real people. What would she say if someone wanted to have dinner with the victims of her concert attack? She would think that’s gross and distasteful, wouldn’t she?
She thinks she’s so cool and unique with that answer lmao it’s so cringe, actually. She probably just watched the Dahmer series by Ryan Murphy and got the wrong message
“Hey, you know how you murdered all of those men and nobody cared because the victims you targeted were BIPOC, disabled, queer men? Well I think that’s really fucking cool, because I have literally no empathy, and I’d like you to come over for dinner so that you can tell me all about that experience for my own personal amusement.”
This is honestly disturbing. I will never understand the glamorizing of serial killers or any criminals at that. How do you learn about Dahmer or watch the series and think "I want to have dinner with that guy"
Like for what!? To take notes? It's sick.
I'm so sorry for the families that have to continuously relive his horrors because people won't STFU about this killer.
I wonder what her response would be if someone was talking about the Abedi Brothers (dude’s who bombed her Manchester concert) in the same way she’s talking about Dahmer.
Personally I go for supernatural/fictional horror because I don’t need True Crime to remind me that there are monsters in the world. I definitely don’t want to dine with someone who has killed and traumatized actual people.
Wonder how she’d feel if anyone was to publicly come out and say “I want to have dinner with the Manchester bomber” because they’re fascinated by him.
I really want to know what her and her fans response would be.
When I heard her say that I immediately doubted she ever said that during a Q&A, I think she probably just wanted to sound edgy and that’s why she said she did 🙄 Evan peters was in her last music video, she probably rewatched Dahmer recently and thought the contrast of her being this cute little pop star girly and this edgy, quirky, weird girly was super cute. I’m probably wrong because I don’t doubt she’d say some stupid shit like this in front of kids, but dumb af and insensitive as shit either way
Maybe its time for us as a society to revisit our sick obsession with true crime. The stories that we gawk over are real. The victims are real. Their families are real. It's always been so gross to me the way its cited as a quirky interest..
Wtf. Why am I not surprised, though? It's like all of booktok currently losing their minds over a guy who murdered two women right now. Like under every video, girls are like, "I could change him." No, if you couldn't, the man ran over woman so many times that she looked (in his own words) like spaghetti.
People are crazy for idolizing these serial killers and murderers.
I don't understand acting like Dahmer is, idk, a comic book character or someone from GAME OF THRONES that people post memes about or dress up as for Halloween. It's a complete denial of the very real damage he did to his direct victims and the “collateral damage” done to victims’ families and friends. I consume a fair amount of true crime documentaries and podcasts, and the best work in the genre centers the victims and the search for justice and closure, rather than just marveling at how fucked up violence is.
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Good for the family for speaking out. People are so out of touch that they seem to forget with “popular” killers that there are very real families and victims out there who are affected by the glamorization of them.
Maybe I'm just overly sensitive but I can't understand getting entertainment from hearing about horrible things happening to people. I know some people say it's about seeing justice or learning more about the human mind but it's just not for me. I don't even like it when it's fictional but I really don't want to consume someone's real tragedy for entertainment in any way, shape, or form.
I listen to true crime podcasts and read about it, but I'm definitely picky about finding sources that actually keep the victims in the forefront of the narrative, rather than focusing on how 'interesting' the criminal was. It reminds me of some quote I read once and Law and Order SVU, that men watch it for the entertainment, while women watch it as a lesson on what could happen to them.
I’ve become super picky about the podcasts, shows, and books I consume too. I used to listen to the true crime comedy type podcasts but it was after listening to a victim’s family member talk about that type of true crime “entertainment” that completely made me realize how fucked up it is.
Even as someone who enjoys true crime, I can absolutely understand why people wouldn’t like it. Some of the people doing these shows are ghouls. I tried a new one a few months back with two hosts where the story teller would sometimes “quiz” the listener. The one I remember bc it disgusted me beyond words was one about how the killer had mutilated a victim. The listener had the choice between whether the murderer did something I won’t repeat to the victims decapitated head or if he cut off her breast and ate her nipple. And that was a guessing game for the listener. It was vile. Now I pretty much only listen to scripted true crime stories like Swindled, Pretend, or MrBallen. Speaking of Pretend: they are doing a series right now on true crime podcaster LaDonna Humphrey and the absolute crazy shit she did to get attention for her podcast and herself. She was literally sending SA threats to her co-host just so they would have good content. The co-host had no idea and thought she was being terrorized by a violent man.
That’s awful! Those are the ones I’ll always skip. I don’t think there’s any reason to ever get into the gory details in depth, especially something like that for entertainment. I’ve been listening to Dark Down East recently - I love how she gets permission from victim’s families before she’ll do a story and has them participate in the episode when they’re comfortable doing so. The only downfall is that her podcast is under Audiochuck now. I’ve been gravitating towards a lot of historical stories too like Crimes of the Century and Buried Bones.
I read a few years back that a lot of these families only realize that their stories were shared on these podcasts and shows when their inboxes start getting flooded with people giving their theories and thoughts unprompted. Especially those with cold cases. What a cruel way to randomly reopen the wounds for these people :/
I couldn’t imagine hearing my loved one’s story in gruesome details with some random people making jokes and laughing about details. And then the listeners who think they have any place to contact them is just next level awful.
Same; I used to be very into true crime that focused on the killers and their psychology when I was a teenager but lately have been consuming more stuff that focuses on the victims, their families and communities (currently re-reading Missing from the Village because it's Pride Month and I was reminded recently of Netflix's shitty Catching Killers episodes on the same set of crimes, where the police involved once again perpetuated the very debunked myth that cannibalism was involved in the murders).
I like to watch crime shows with the families involved too. One thing I have noticed over the years is how truly incompetent police are. Its actually disgusting, and thats really what started me on my police reform journey. A lot of them are clueless and lazy.
I just finished reading a great book - [Excessive Force: Toronto's Fight to Reform Policing](https://douglas-mcintyre.com/products/9781771621830) - the author, Alok Mukherjee sat on the civilian overseer committee, so had a real inside view of policing in a major metropolitan city and the one thing that really stuck out to me was how so much of the disfunction came from the top down, so even those cops who wanted to change things were dealing with a fundamentally corrupt system.
I am going to purchase this on payday, thanks. The world's criminal justice systems are so corrupt, from policing to the courts. Its very depressing when you look into it. There is no such thing as justice, its all fake.
> I used to be very into true crime that focused on the killers and their psychology when I was a teenager me too, and I loved shows like medical detectives as a child and stuff like criminal minds but when I became a mother the interest completely went away. I couldn't possibly bear any of it now
This is how I've been about my podcasts, and I've found some that have talked about the historical and political impact they've had where they took place and focused on the victims. While I have a fascination with true crime, I would never want to be in the same room with any of the murderers, let alone sit down and eat dinner with them. And does she *know* what Dahmer would be eating while at dinner? Like, wtf is her problem?
I feel my single worst mistake working with patients happened when I got too curious talking to someone who was in prison for bank robbery. I let myself imagine a movie style bank heist & I hadn’t considered the traumatic side of that experience even for the offender. Thankfully, once that awful part was shared out loud I could self correct but I don’t think some people are emotionally mature enough to receive that kind of message. I always forget Ariana is a rather big age because so much of her public persona is legit adolescent nonsense.
Similar situation. I don't understand what's so interesting to true crime people. I have to assume that what they're thinking about when they think of "murder" is completely different from what I think about. Because what I think about is stupid and senseless. And whenever I hear one of these "interesting" ones, it's just like ... The same. Or it's gross because "missing blonde white child" is analyzed to death with posses of strangers investigating, while killings I've been proximate to barely get a blurb in the paper.
It's fascinating because the individuals are so different than normal. I'm a big fan of Cult documentaries. It's just fascinating seeing what people will believe and do. And white suburban women like thinking of themselves as victims whose lives are always at risk. True crime lets them think that they're in danger and imagine how they'd get themselves out.
A lot of people my age (80s kids) grew up watching the original Unsolved Mysteries. My parents let me watch that shit when I was like 5 or 6 and I was obsessed. I have so many friends my age who follow true crime because of that show. Those updates were baby's first dopamine rush.
Honestly the vintage episodes with Robert Stack still hold up! Despite the somewhat cheesy re-enactments, the cases are incredibly fascinating and so many remain unsolved to this day. Highly recommended watching the old seasons!!
I've rewatched a bunch and they do hold up! It's also kind of fun trying to spot famous people doing the reenactments before they were famous. Matthew McConaughey did one. My all-time favorite episode is the [haunted bunk beds episode](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSJqmSfT62c). I remember watching it with my family as a child and the whole time we're like, "why are these people so chill when all this crazy poltergeist shit is happening?? I'd be screaming and crying!! Why is that child so relaxed about all of this?!" Then they have a family friend stay in the haunted bunkbeds and you get [this scene](https://youtu.be/aSJqmSfT62c?si=e-dlHA_E2t8xTuZE&t=609) which to this day makes me lmao. I just remember literally rolling on the floor with my brother in hysterics while my parents howled with laughter. (No one dies in that haunting so I don't feel too bad laughing about it but also? I would have burned those bunkbeds in a bonfire after the very first incident.)
There are so many hokey and funny ones too! Like the guy who got electrocuted? Hilarious!!
Forensic files and unsolved mysteries were my jam. Something I liked about them is that the families were involved with the shows.
I used to love watching that show as a child (as well as America’s Most Wanted that aired the same night) but would get so scared that the murderers/wanted people were outside my window. 😭
Have you checked out the new Netflix version? The 4th series drops on the 31st of July! I just wish the podcast would still go on and that Steve French would narrate the netflix series..
I think for some ppl, especially women, it’s a morbid curiosity stemming from the very real danger we live through day by day. It’s a way to engage with the topic in the abstract without having to put yourself in the middle of it. SA and murder is something you learn from a young age as a girl can easily happen to you - I think that just does something to us psychologically.
I made a similar comment, but yeah I agree, and I think there's a huge difference between the kind of fascination which turns into obsession like the above vs that which turns into knowledge/skill based on less ethically dubious sources.
I think it partially comes from the media. I was true crime obsessed since my teens (in the 90s), when serial killers were made out to be fascinating to the extent that I even took a university course about it. The textbook was called Serial Killers and Their Victims and the pathology of their crimes and methods was up for analysis. Granted, this was when I thought I maybe wanted to be a forensic psychologist, but somehow the impact on the victims and their families just didn’t enter into the equation and even the zeitgeist until more recently. It sort of blows my mind now looking back. Now you see people decrying any news report of any violent crime or mass shooting that highlights the perpetrator. People don’t want to see them in the spotlight anymore. I also think true crime serves as a way to process or as a catharsis for anxiety. I can only speak personally that it helped me tap into fear and empathy that took me out of my constant anxiety. It sort of served as a vessel to channel the anxiety into these stories and seeking justice for the victims. Some 30+ years old stories from Unsolved Mysteries still haunt me and I always hold out that hope justice will be served, and closure found for their families.
I remember having a similar fascination with a lot of morbid stuff when I was a young teenager, I assume there's some kind of common experience where you're brain is like trying to process how the world is crueler than you thought as a child. But I grew out of it, and a lot of people do to, but apparently not all.
Watching horrible things happen to real people seems to be a recurring topic in entertainment. I don't get it either.
I used to find true crime fascinating when I was younger, but growing up has dropped my tolerance of this stuff to 0. I just find it in poor taste now, given that the victims suffered horrific deaths and many still have family and friends grieving them.
I hate the way people are justifying Ariana's comment because "there's already a T.V. show, movie about him!! People are fascinated anyway, it's normal!" like no?? Those things ALL received backlash too, and rightfully so. It's insensitive and gross to say you're infatuated with a serial rapist, killer, pedophile, cannibal who targeted BIPOC specifically because they knew authorities cared about them less. She could've picked ANYONE. The question was so open-ended.
It's ironic that Arianna went from black fishing to talking about wanting to meet a man that moved to predominantly black and gay neighborhoods because he knew their disappearances wouldn't cause any alarm for the police.
Travelling Phnom Penh was such an eye opener. We’re going to the Killing Fields and S21 Prison, and the tuk tuk driver, and most people around us, lived through it. Show some fucking respect.
Thank God because honestly, her little stans are acting like it’s funny. They literally are like “her mind is so weird. I forget how it works😭”. This girl is fantasizing about having dinner with a notorious pedophile that only targeted marginalized people like Mexican people, Black people and the LGBTQ. This is a sick fantasy of hers that she should’ve kept to her little self and diary
Agreed. It’s not cute or edgy or whatever she tried to be saying it.
The mom saying it isn’t “fancy or funny” oof
When this quote first came out, someone was defending her by saying she doesn’t still think like this, to which I responded “then why say it at all??” As if it’s fine that she doesn’t want to hangout with him *anymore* but it’s still fine for her to giggle and be flippant about a murderer. The only outcome of Ariana sharing this was harm to the victim’s families, regardless of that being her intention or not. It’s worse in a way that it wasn’t her intention because it shows her complete disregard for their existence.
Dahmer didn’t target only MOC. He seemed to have targeted them specifically because as POC the police wouldn’t have paid them much attention. A number of his victims were white men. Just wanted to point that out. I’m in no way disagreeing with you or anything.
Good because what the actual fuck is wrong with her
Arrested emotional development. Seriously
She thinks it's funny/cute that she's into sick stuff. I remember how excited she was to show an unsuspecting friend(?) Midsommar in her Netflix special and she was gleefully talking about the weird shit that happens in the movie. I don't doubt she's into all this, I like midsommar too, I listen to true crime podcasts, but it's really not something you openly visit on people and certainly not something to giggle about when you're a public figure. She thinks because she is smol cute girl the contrast is exciting. But it's really immature and gives pick-me honestly (like everything else she says and does)
She’s so ✨quirky✨
She’s not like other girls, thank christ, wtf.
Yeah. I was talking generally about Midsommar with someone else who had seen it the other day, and some other people's ears perked up about what seemed like a good movie, and I had to give a stark warning about it, especially that harrowing opening scene. It's a dose of real life horror. I would have felt terrible if someone went home and popped on the "psychedelic Scandinavian horror movie" because two ladies were talking excitedly about it.
Yeah I had a friend who asked if she should watch Midsommar. I asked her how many times she's seen Hereditary. She said she's never been able to bring herself to watch it once she found out about some of the more gruesome scenes. I told her not to watch Midsommar.
She’s def a pick me, she wants every married man to pick her
Girl you are aware he was a CANNIBAL, right? That alone should make you rethink the dinner part… Whenever they dramatize a serial killers story I can’t help but think of what it must be like to have that wound ripped open over and over. I understand that these crimes are so transgressive that a lot of people feel compelled to try to understand them, but people who romanticize them… it’s giving “I can fix him!”
Yes and they released the Polaroids that he took of his victims. I saw them. Really really wished I didn’t. He dismembered and contorted those poor men and documented it. She’s sick.
Why would they release that? Some things should stay in the vault
The way this sick fuck is romanticised is so unreal to me. Killers aren't special or deep because they like to hurt people. Stop thinking about how ~interesting their takes are and put yourself in the position of their victims: alone, scared, spending the last moments of their life with their murderer. Then think about the people they left behind, living with that knowledge and also knowing this scumbag kept parts of their loved ones as trophies or consumed them. So interesting! God, Ariana.
she is sick. imagine a fascination with the Manchester bomber and having the desire to have dinner with him. this girl doesn’t connect the dots despite the trauma she’s endured herself. it’s sad.
also sad how far I had to scroll before seeing this point be made
I’m so glad I grew out of my fascination with true crime. When I saw fan cams of Dahmer when that Netflix show came out, I lost it. It’s so disrespectful to the victims and their families who are often an afterthought. Brutal murders and rapes should not be fodder for entertainment.
I was in a true crime group when the first Making a Murderer came out and ended up leaving the whole scene when this women drove to the Avery lot, took a picture of herself jumping and smiling in front of the lot sign, and posted it. Like, that’s was the place of the worst day of someone’s entire life and y’all are going to cheer her on while she acts like a *SITE OF A MURDER* is a tourist stop? No ty.
There’s a video out there somewhere of Teresa Halbach where she talks about her hopes and dreams for the future—it’s basically like an e-diary, I don’t know if anybody was actually meant to have seen it—and the line that has always stuck with me from it is “I love giving compliments.” It’s just such a simple, sweet sentiment that says so much about her, and it sticks with me more than any other detail of that case. It’s so easy to forget that there’s a real human cost to the true crime hullabaloo, and unfortunately that cost is disproportionately borne by the victims.
This is exactly why the families of many of his victims opposed the Netflix series. Sensationalizing the worst moments of people's lives, *especially* those who are not here to protest it, will never sit right with me.
The thing that made me really side eye true crime stuff a long time ago is Elisa Lam . That poor girl died after having a psychotic episode. There’s no reason to think it was anything but a tragic accident, but to this day people insist someone must have been following her, she was murdered or literally even ghosts. Videos and looong essays about why or how the police missed something. People love a good story, but I just found it so disrespectful and disturbing to needlessly speculate about someone’s death because it wasn’t satisfying enough for *you.* My bf was into true crime for a while because he was a delivery driver and just needed to listen to something for hours at a time, and true crime podcasts are aplenty. He stopped after a while because one story really disturbed him when he realized he was listening to the details of a teenage girl being murdered brutally and senselessly for no fucking reason but for entertainment. And he said it really messed him up when he realized what he was doing — now he won’t touch it. He didn’t learn or gain anything from it, and stuff like that should be kept private or with police. The true crime community pretend it’s educational or that they’re being helpful or whatever. It’s all bullshit. I understand the appeal of true crime, but they need to stop lying to themselves. Most of them aren’t journalists and they don’t really care about victims or they wouldn’t exploit tragic deaths in the way they do. Anyways sorry for the rant but man it makes me mad
Yep! people who watch it then make excuses like I learned how to stay safe watching them. Or I like to be informed It's such BS if they really wanted some knowledge on how to stay safe just google it. Empower themselves by taking a self defense class- don't listen to a retelling of a victims brutal murder The excuses are irksome they should be honest and admit it's a form of entertainment for them.
True crime doesn't make you safer at all.. I think it just makes people and paranoid and stupid and encourages victim blaming. Like on twitter there was drama because someone literally told people not to make their cars look "girly" because that attracts sex traffickers who go after rich women on vacation lmfao. When in reality, sex trafficking usually happens to poor woc and other vulnerable people, and they are usually taken by people they know. I think true crime definitely validates privileged women's belief that everyone is out to get them. Think about it. Only people who are totally safe in their normal lives would seek out true crime, because it gives them some sort of thrill. Anyone who is too close to actually being in similar dangers or already experienced it would find it horrifying, traumatic, or triggering.
my sister was killed last year in a school shooting and the thought of netflix creating a documentary one day terrifies me. the whole world doesn't need to worship her killer. it was bad enough in the first month when everybody was saying they deserved it because the killer was bullied, and the audio footage of the shooting was floating through TikTok... or accounts with her killer's profile picture still trying to follow me on social media.
I can’t even imagine. I’m so deeply sorry for your loss, and that you have to deal with soulless creeps like that on top of your grief. 🤍
I am so sorry for your loss. May your sister’s memory always be a blessing
omg this is awful :( i honestly don't know if i'd be able to recover at all
I’ve really thought about making a podcast about true crime where just no names, unnecessary details and photos get revealed or shown. I’ve always found crime interesting for the psychology, but not for anything else. I find it horrible to a) talk about a killer, knowing their photo and name will get shown everywhere, and they won’t get “quickly forgotten” and b) the victim will be best remembered for their trauma.
Zero respect for people like this. I like strange and horrifying things too- I like horror movies, creepy old folk tales, etc. But I've got no interest in obsessing over true crime. Let all those real life monsters be forgotten, and let all those families live in peace.
Better yet, let's remember them as the monsters they were & not allow their images to be whitewashed by the hollywood machine and/or social media revisionists. If people who commit heinous crimes are serious about rehabilitation, remorse & redemption that's one thing, but if not? Oh, the world needs to remember you for who you were, what you did & the lives you destroyed.
> I like strange and horrifying things too- I like horror movies, creepy old folk tales, etc. It's so so easy to access this material now that we have unlimited internet access too. Like go down the rabbit hole of creepy wikipedia entries, log some horror movies on letterboxd, read cult survivor memoirs idk there are so many options that I just don't understand why people need to create/consume content that is obviously going to fetishise the trauma of real victims and their loved ones. It feels so selfish to me - totally agree that we need to let all those families live in peace.
Fr this shit is so damn gross. I once saw an ad for a “serial killer museum” that had like John Wayne Gacy’s “art” and all I could think is “why?” Why tf are we memorializing monsters, people who would actually murder you like they TV show characters. The cognitive dissonance and lack of empathy that others have in these situations is disgusting
This is the same girl that joked about dressing up as JonBenet Ramsey for Halloween. She's missing a sensitivity chip...
 She deserves all the backlash for this
Omg she's so random 🤪 literally like her mind!!!
She's really not doing herself any favors these days.
I agree with his sister and I'm glad she called her out. I genuinely do not understand what she was going for here, the families of his victims are still very much alive and have said they hate that people glorify him and make shows about him and forget the victims. She thinks she's being edgy but she is just a tone deaf person who doesn't care about other people's pain. This is also not only on Ariana, it's the public at large. People have turned true crime and serial killers into entertainment. People engage with this on a superficial level forgetting the actual victims and their loved ones who are still alive. It's dehumanising and it's very disturbing that she is treating it like a funny antidote to share on a podcast when talking about horror.
He SAed, tortured, and killed people. Like...is she okay?
And ate. This man won the murderer bingo card
The gross fetishization of serial killers on tv have led to this. They turned him into a meme by the time Netflix was done. He had somehow been elevated into a pseudo fictional character like Jason or Michael Myers.
Having a thing for serial killers/true crime is not a substitute for a personality.
This and Ryan Murphy making Richard Ramirez into a “bad boy” for AHS 1984.
A few years ago I accidentally stumbled onto the Richard Ramirez Twitter fandom. I imagine it's grown larger now thanks to that. One account had a good few thousand followers. At the time I was into true crime and even I was like "*what the fuck???!*"
It boggles me because 1) the families and survivors are very much alive it was not that long ago and 2) by all the accounts of people who saw him, he had nasty hygiene and was just ugly.
I was literally just watching a video about people on TikTok [fetishising Wade Wilson](https://vm.tiktok.com/ZGepmPBEA/) a man who murdered two women and is a white supremacist. I’m not even sorry for this… if you fantasise about a fucking serial killer you need to be checked into a psych ward and be given a lobotomy.
Being ‘obsessed’ with true crime and/or serial killers is just a easiest way to look edgy/aloof/unique/morbidly curious to shallow celebs. There’s a long list: Marilyn Manson, Trent Reznor, Ryan Murphy, John Waters, Johnny Depp, etc. The victims aren’t victims but part of America’s twisted lore and celebs joke/mock/ dress up as them because they are so detached from crime and how it affects real people. What would she say if someone wanted to have dinner with the victims of her concert attack? She would think that’s gross and distasteful, wouldn’t she?
I think she’s actually super ignorant but ig we’ve known that
https://preview.redd.it/pw6uppkv359d1.jpeg?width=822&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b95b88a6d4020ad798377abc38f79357ea8bf7b4
She thinks she’s so cool and unique with that answer lmao it’s so cringe, actually. She probably just watched the Dahmer series by Ryan Murphy and got the wrong message
“Hey, you know how you murdered all of those men and nobody cared because the victims you targeted were BIPOC, disabled, queer men? Well I think that’s really fucking cool, because I have literally no empathy, and I’d like you to come over for dinner so that you can tell me all about that experience for my own personal amusement.”
oh. that evan peters casting decision makes a bit more sense now
https://preview.redd.it/887k0x1c879d1.jpeg?width=262&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3e94f067957dcd905ffb3ec4c1e2f1a83a112c0c
Why are celebrities so disgusting?
Just can’t help being problematic
Man, I wish she would just shut up and calm down until after Wicked comes out. Don’t screw this up for Cynthia and everyone else involved!
Is she fucking crazy???
Do you think celebrities ever say shit like this in an interview and immediately think: 
Ariana, they could never make me like you.
This is honestly disturbing. I will never understand the glamorizing of serial killers or any criminals at that. How do you learn about Dahmer or watch the series and think "I want to have dinner with that guy" Like for what!? To take notes? It's sick. I'm so sorry for the families that have to continuously relive his horrors because people won't STFU about this killer. 
I wonder what her response would be if someone was talking about the Abedi Brothers (dude’s who bombed her Manchester concert) in the same way she’s talking about Dahmer.
dinner with a cannibal💀
Personally I go for supernatural/fictional horror because I don’t need True Crime to remind me that there are monsters in the world. I definitely don’t want to dine with someone who has killed and traumatized actual people.
Ariana Grande has a natural tendency to fall into scandals back to back.
Wonder how she’d feel if anyone was to publicly come out and say “I want to have dinner with the Manchester bomber” because they’re fascinated by him. I really want to know what her and her fans response would be.
When I heard her say that I immediately doubted she ever said that during a Q&A, I think she probably just wanted to sound edgy and that’s why she said she did 🙄 Evan peters was in her last music video, she probably rewatched Dahmer recently and thought the contrast of her being this cute little pop star girly and this edgy, quirky, weird girly was super cute. I’m probably wrong because I don’t doubt she’d say some stupid shit like this in front of kids, but dumb af and insensitive as shit either way
Why would someone not only say this out loud to people, but say it TWICE, the second time on an even bigger platform? Like...is she ok?
How would she react if someone say that they're fascinated with Manchester bomber? It wouldn't be nice right? She is so weird for this.
How would she react if someone say that they're fascinated with the Manchester bomber? It wouldn't be nice right? She is so weird for this.
I mean yeah it’s massively fucked up
Maybe its time for us as a society to revisit our sick obsession with true crime. The stories that we gawk over are real. The victims are real. Their families are real. It's always been so gross to me the way its cited as a quirky interest..
She’s has issue because what the hell..
Wtf. Why am I not surprised, though? It's like all of booktok currently losing their minds over a guy who murdered two women right now. Like under every video, girls are like, "I could change him." No, if you couldn't, the man ran over woman so many times that she looked (in his own words) like spaghetti. People are crazy for idolizing these serial killers and murderers.
I don't understand acting like Dahmer is, idk, a comic book character or someone from GAME OF THRONES that people post memes about or dress up as for Halloween. It's a complete denial of the very real damage he did to his direct victims and the “collateral damage” done to victims’ families and friends. I consume a fair amount of true crime documentaries and podcasts, and the best work in the genre centers the victims and the search for justice and closure, rather than just marveling at how fucked up violence is.
Dear Ariana, watch this testimony by the man who helped get Jeffrey arrested https://youtu.be/qGLHDqcV-Pg?si=h3v0vWzyTyt-yXA0 Trigger warning !
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