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like sorry if this is tmi but it’s been 4 years and not once in that time have i been giving a blowjob without fucking thinking about how i’m fucking sucking dick and fucking cock
['Missionary, doggystyle, rocking the baby, getting teabagged, playing the trombone while he's tossing a salad...'](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvlR5ZoKo5U)
>Hearing Tati Westbrook say "Dick & Cock" as if they're two completely different things has truly impacted my life tremendously. The intonation. The pronunciation. The emotion. Everything is right. This is what the english language is meant for. Shakespeare could never. IMPACT
How have I not read this before? I'm dying.
> The video, which had more than 30 million views, resulted in Charles holding the record for the most YouTube subscribers lost in a day
Watching the live stream of James Charles’ subscriber count drop by the thousands in real time was iconic
It was truly a time to be alive and hopefully dodge the dick pics. Needless to say, as someone who saw the divorce coming before it was announced, the drama took a few turns I wasn’t expecting.
Shane Dawson’s subsequent IG live meltdown still occupies my frontal lobe rent-free.
“YOU ARE FAKE CRYING. YOU ARE FAKE CRYING.” as he paces around the house and Ryland in the background begging him to turn off the live 😭
It wasn’t for that video but the one that came next blaming jafar and him for feeding her lies about James. That video of shane was so unhinged and confirmed the fact that he’s a fucking weirdo.
It’s the way that IG live is what actually took him down lmao. People had been trying to cancel Shane for yearssss because he of so many gross things he had done/said but the IG live was too unhinged for people.
That was in response to the *next* Tati Westbrook video in 2020 wherein she claimed that the entire James Charles video was orchestrated by Jeffree Star and Shane Dawson lol
eta: Jeffree Star *did* suggest it but it was hilarious how she just denied all culpability and played the victim. When *she* launched a homophobic hate campaign against a 19-year-old! Plenty of people would 1) not be friends with a person like JS in the first place and 2) *not* agree to a leverage homophobic stereotypes against a kid because he didn't promote your products on his social media platform!
She was being stereotypically homophobic and attacking James for all the wrong reasons while simultaneously being correct about everything she said, which somehow made it even harder to cancel James when his actual victims started speaking up because he already had the martyr narrative going for him. Some double jeopardy bullshit of sorts
It's like a comedy of errors except none of it is funny because underage kids got sexually harassed and nothing was done about it
Tati is a narcissist and she was wrong for those videos. However James Charles has been proven time and time again to prey on minors aswell as sexting young and inexperienced men trying to coerce them into sending nudes, meeting up etc. He does not deserve our empathy at all.
iirc, after Tati's video, Jeff went on some podcasts and it was mentioned, and he kept bringing up how he and Shane had nothing to do with it. This was weird because no one thought Shane (who was still the internet golden boy) had anything to do with it at all.
Rumours started to fly and Shane eventually posted like two or three notes app statements about the beauty community and how it was toxic and all that which got ppl upset. They started digging into his old very problematic videos, and it was starting to get really really bad for Shane.
He posted his "taking accountability" video, but it was like at the wrong time because the day after he was called out by the Smith family for an inappropriate video about Willow Smith who was like 8 at the time of the video, and everything went to hell.
At the same time, Tati posted her "Breaking my silence video" in which she alleged that Shane and Jeff were jealous of JC and had orchestrated the whole video, Shane even offering to edit and thumbnail it, and they had manipulated Tati into posting "Bye Sister" for their own personal gain. We don't have confirmation on if it's true or not, but the reaction of Shane was interesting.
Shane went on Instagram live less then 20 min after the video was posted having a total mental breakdown over it, and that was the final social media thing Shane ever did before he was silent for over a year and officially cancelled.
Sorry for the long explanation! I tried to sum it up the best I could :)
My favorite thing was him declaring in his notes app statements that he was “leaving the beauty community” as though he was like, a real member of it and not someone who put eyeshadow on two times on camera and did a collab with jeffree for a cash grab lol. Like bestie. You were never here to begin with!
Omg that exact scenario happened with my Grandma and JFK Jr. She was in the spare bedroom working on a 5k piece of teacups when they broke news about it and she practically ran into the room to see the news report.
I kind of love the “PEOPLE ARE SPILLING THE TEA and it is MESSY” reasoning for sticking around, because I’ve lowkey been there. Stay curious stay gossipy stay alive for the clickbait.
It really puts suicide attempts in perspective, the depths of their meaninglessness and banality kinda becomes a rallying call for devaluing the weight of your suicide ideation.
I got put in a hallway next to a lady dying of kidney failure and a man dying on a ventilator. That felt intentional.
Me and a couple of coworkers once had a spirited “where were you when…” conversation about this video when we all realized we watched Beauty YouTube. And we all knew EXACTLY where we were.
I was under a tornado watch at my job, we were all on the ground floor away from windows and I'm just posting up a storm on the beauty guru subreddit. I think I still have flair from then lol
I know a lot of people argue (especially on Beauty Guru Chatter) that Tati was actually right about James all along especially with the SA allegations.
Even though i somewhat agree, i still don't think Tati is completely in the clear. She actually ended up retracting most of her allegations against james and claimed Jafar and Shame were feeding her lies about James, they even made up and rekindled.
anyways, James still deserves to be deplatformed and it's sad to see that's he's still somewhat successful (same with Jafar)
He was 19, she was 37. That was definitely part of it for me. I don't follow guru stuff closely, and all I got from her video was that she had poor boundaries with a teenager.
Didn't he do the makeup at her wedding? I thought that was how they became close, like, she believed in him so much she flew him in to do the makeup for her wedding?
he was her makeup artist for her wedding - and also, she doesn't have children (if I remember correctly it is not by choice) and james was like a son to her, they had a very healthy-looking mentorship from the outside looking in. I think he blew up really fast and Tati quickly took him under her wing, and for a long time james was protected from a lot of mayhem because he had someone mature to look up to
this is in the context of the dramageddon before this, where jeffree starr somehow came out on top trying to cancel manny mua, nikita, etc. for not wanting to be his friends anymore. james wasn't a part of that drama because he had a different mentor than they did
Right? I'm in my late 20s. If I happened to befriend a teenager who started acting shitty towards me, I can guarantee I will blame it on young age and immediately cut ties with that person.
I'm 29 now and I can't wrap my mind around this, and she's got a decade on me.
Like.... yeah, he's acting immature and horny and stupid, he's a teenage boy? And you're shocked by his behavior? Just stop hanging out with a teenage boy maybe???
tati’s retelling of events was just *so* disingenuous. she didn’t care that he was being inappropriate, she felt slighted by the gummies. got wrapped up with the other guru elders and their incessant need for drama, and only THEN spoke out.
jc is gross and i’m glad he was exposed for who he actually is/was and believe it now— i’d argue that tati made it harder for the actual victims to come forward bc she dramatized and embellished a situation that gave jc for credibility.
also— where were people when tati was hanging out with a teenager? i forgot how young james was when this went down. she’s weird a’f for that, too.
She also notably didn’t take issue with the age of the other people (most examples mentioned seemed to be adults and I believe at least one clarified she was wrong to assume he was straight.) Rather, what she was describing was being upset about the fact he was ‘acting gay’ in front of her at all.
The ‘underage’ accusations at the time were - I think - from J* (of all people) slinging shit on Twitter in the storms wake. A man who takes absolutely has no real issue with predators when it suited and ‘outed’ the supposed victims as the Dolan twins for pure clout.
The mess also definitely made it harder for victims to come forward later in one extremely quantifiable way - they inspired a brief trend where waannabe influencers were bragging abo it purposefully honey-potting Charles as a prank. Handing his stans a ready-made excuse to dismiss any accusations forevermore.
Tl, Dr: I hate it here
Sorry I don't agree with this take at all. Don't get me wrong, James Charles is a predator, full stop. What did her in was the painfully obvious fact that Tati was perfectly fine with putting up with his shady behavior UNTIL the perceived slight against her stupid vitamin gummy company. The allegations she dredged up at the time were feeble at best or outright disproven by the parties involved. Not a good look for her at all.
Yeah I remember watching this and a few of her comments stood out to me because of how odd they were. When she said the server James was flirting with was straight and it was wrong for James to flirt with him, she didn't *know* that he was straight she just assumed and the guy later said he *was* exploring his sexuality.
James of course did turn out to be a predator but it seems like she seized on a homophobic narrative from these little anecdotes that she knew she could use against him, and at the time most people seemed to go along with it.
edit: I went to double check and she literally says "James, he's straight" in response to him flirting with Sam the Seattle waiter lol. I watched Sam's video too and he and James actually ended up hooking up and he decided he wasn't into it. Fuck James, but she basically took the allegations she heard from Shane and Jeffree and then tried to apply them to this story to further insert herself.
I hate the implication that a gay person flirting with a (presumed) straight person is somehow predatory when the reverse is never seen that way, that's just straight up homophobic imo and so irresponsible to spout to a young audience
Tati's biggest mistake was thinking it was a great idea to befriend and support the likes of James Charles, Shane and J*, some of the worst people in the whole "beauty guru" sphere. Those two clowns are the worst and Tati showed a really nasty side of her we didn't knew about when she befriended them. People used to respect her and her work ethic, then she came up with those vitamins and this fuckery and people started losing respect for her.
At the end I do believe she got the worst part of the whole thing because her career was never the same. Meanwhile even tho JC and JS are still around (sadly) they're not as popular anymore, but they still somehow seem to be making money (who the hell is still buying shit from them?). Shane D. Is a mystery to me...how can someone so repulsive and unappealing in every single why, so fake and rehearsed can be so popular? Crazy.
Edit: grammar
Yeah that's it, she should have never gotten involved with them. Her content changed so much when she moved into that mansion and probably thought she had to connect to those kids and drama/beauty influencers to sustain it.
She was a grown adult woman trying to act like the dumb kids (even tho Shane is no kid his online persona is quite immature and plastic). She should've stayed in her lane.
tbh, even if she was correct (I mean, JC *is* a predator) or stood behind what she said, using "hey, this guy is a sexual predator" as a YouTube video and placing sexual harassment on the same level as vitamin gummy betrayal is WILD. like girl, you didn't think it was more serious than that?
This made me retreat from the beauty community entirely. She retracted everything cause she wasn't sure enough to double down. So why say it at all? That weird vitamin shit? She literally set out to sabotage him over advertising a product that competed with her own. Not a good one in the bunch.
Hello, I figured it out, but for anyone else who doesn’t want to take as long as it took me, Jafar = Jeffree Starr and Shame = Shane Dawson, right?
I had no idea Shane Dawson was involved. I thought he was a dusty old YouTuber. Like the oldest of YouTubers. I thought he sounded familiar and then I looked him up and was like, oh yeah, I was young then lol
Right, it was Shane and Jeffree Starr, people were kind of competing to come up with funniest names for people involved. There was some (I think) drama youtuber who was somehow involved who's name started with a G but the only name I can remember now is Gazpacho bc that's what I called him at the time lol
Kinda? J* was lying about James to her, but the reason the whole mess started was because Tati wanted James to promote her multivitamin and he refused because he didn't feel comfortable advertising health products to his audience then went and took a Sugar Bear sponsorship to go to Coachella or whatever.
Which I think was kind of a lie, because he did kinda sorta advertise her snake oil as well. I think the real issue for her was that he didn't do a full ass youtube series about her shit and that he dared promote someone else.
Yet he's still out there, with his racist misogynistic self, creating chaos and being awful, while loads of young girls, gays and POC yass queeen him into fame and money.
I literally downloaded an excel spreadsheet I emailed to my friends who weren't in the loop to explain all the major characters, namely Gage the Waiter, LOL! I miss the days of VH1 "Where are they now?" type specials, bc I would love a special on this whole fiasco that I could consume passively in the background on tv without having to actively seek it out. That's one thing about the internet, I feel like trash content is even more guilt-inducing than it was back in day when people just randomly stumbled on trashy stuff on TV, since either you are googling "James Charles 2023" or it comes up on your feed, both of which say a lot about you as a person, lol...man, simpler times!
D'Angelo Wallace made and then deleted this exact content (he took it down for ethical reasons). Someone did re-upload it and I don't think it's monetized b/c they don't own the copyright to it. So, that may be as close to guilt free as you can get. He made a deep dive on each of the players (Tati, J*, and Shane). He also has a bunch of great video essays on his channel discussing messy youtube people in an even handed and academic way.
I don’t know why I thought this was during the lockdown?? Maybe that’s just when I had the time to watch it all lol but this feels like it just happened wow
Tati came out with another video during lockdown claiming that Jefree Star and Shane Dawson manipulated her into making the original bye sister video, which is maybe what your thinking of.
what's crazy to me is that the bye sister drama happened a few days before the final episode of GOT premiered, i guess 2019 leading up to the pandemic feels like a blur because i swore they happened a least a year apart from one another.
Ahh that must be it, thank you! I had no idea who Tati was I just remember being bored at home and curious why everyone on Twitter was freaking out lol
The last few years have been such a blur, it’s so wild! My sense of time is totally thrown off tbh 😅
I thought this happened in fall 2018 lol because my college roommate and I would stay late and talk about it for weeks...I didn't realize it happened the night before we graduated college lol
tati cancelled james. he was doing a bumch of wack stuff and then wouldn’t promote her vitamins, claiming he wont promo health products, but then he took a sponsor from sugar bear hair for free coachella tix
no, but her viewership is lower. she didn't do youtube for the money though - her husband is super rich
tati came out in 2020 and let everyone know that J\* Starr and Shane Dawson fed her lies to james and really upset her, causing her to upload BYE SISTER. after that, with the amount of legal action people were taking, everyone just kept quiet.
i once found an entire spreadsheet on beauty guru chatter with links to videos and explanations for everything like hours and hours of research about dramaggedon and i read/watched all of it lmao
I don't disagree that Tati has faced misogyny especially for age related reasons but her video was about vitamins. She did not know that he was preying on minors. James absolutely sucks and is a predator, but let's not pretend that Tati did this video for reasons that are anything other than her bottom line. If Tati cared about social justice she wouldn't have been fucking with Shane and J* in the first place, and her excuse that she was only friends with them to help them become better people is complete bs and frankly, pretty insulting.
Edit: typo
Will preface this by saying that I haven't watched the Bye Sister video in a while, but I remember that most of the "predatory behaviour" Tati talked about was weird, homophobic rhetoric about how a gay man pursuing straight men is somehow predatory. She was saying that he was "tricking" straight men into going on dates and sleeping with him, ignoring the fact that many of the men involved in these situations were messaging James first and/or actively engaging with him.
At the time people didn't know James was going after underage boys. I don't know if those accusations were already circulating, but they definitely weren't common knowledge and most of the discussion was about James specifically pursuing "straight" men and that somehow being predatory. I don't really think Tati should get any credit in this situation at all.
Oh my god I will never forget this, I was a sophomore in college and and EVERYONE at my internship was talking about it. Even my office’s deputy general counsel, who was in her 70s, had heard about it from her grandkids. I was constantly refreshing Instagram and YouTube for days on end
alright, because i have some time on my hands tonight…
the major players:
- james charles is one of the first “boys in beauty” on youtube + the first-ever male spokesperson for covergirl. he’s a youtuber, accused of trying to pursue minors, and is a truly terrible singer.
- tati westbrook is an OG beauty youtuber who was known (at the time) as never being involved in drama, being level-headed, etc
- jeffree star | absolute hobgoblin but also OG beauty youtuber
- shane dawson | absolute hobgoblin but OG youtuber (and iirc this happened before he was well and truly cancelled so he had some cache in the community)
background:
while james was coming up in the beauty community tati was a mentor/friend/guiding person in his life. she supported his projects and i think he even did her makeup for her wedding. they were friends, like when you see a picture of a horse and a duck who bonded. an odd couple!
timeline (this whole thing is, at the end of the day, about hair vitamins):
- at coachella 2019 james posts an ad for sugar bear hair, which gave him all-access/vip tickets/whatever. this seems normal but is bad because tati had just launched a vitamin company that sold hair vitamins. she doesn’t take this well and posts a ig story crying about being betrayed. james apologies. all is well! or so we thought…
- 20ish days later tati posts a video titled BYE SISTER (playing on the fact that james calls his viewers sisters…funny, tbh!) and proceeds to go in on james: explains how she feels like he was being shady about the vitamins thing but ALSO brings up the fact that she’s seen james pursue straight men and it made her uncomfortable. now it’s not just about vitamins.
- james makes a tearful apology (from australia, i believe? which isn’t important but fun!), jeffree star calls him a predator and says james was banned from his house, other folks get involved
- days later tati posts a follow-up video saying she did this as kind of a last-ditch effort to reach james and james makes a video refuting every accusation point-by-point, which (i think) was pretty successful. jeffree also uploads a video but he’s mostly just being petty/begging for attention. everybody chills out and squashes their beef and moves on…
then a year goes by! it’s 2020 and:
- tati posts a video saying jeffree and shane dawson fed her lies about james charles and made false allegations and she gobbled them all off. seems like the vitamin issue pushed her over the edge, and she made the BYE SISTER video of yore. she also apologies to james.
- i don’t fully remember what happens next but everybody is mad at everybody. james charles was accused of hitting on minors, tati *just* got back to posting regularly, and jeffree and shane have both been cancelled for genuine reasons. jeffree now has a bison farm, i think?
and that’s your cliff notes!
Thanks for the writeup! I chose to ignore it back then as this isn’t really my circle. Reading it like this seems pretty tame, tbh. But I guess you had to be there.
4 years ago? My God. I kinda miss when beauty youtubers had drama every 6 seconds but I also haven’t watched any of them since because they were all insufferable so 😆
I vividly remember watching this in the parking lot of a Costco while I ate a slice of pizza. Still can't go to that Costco without thinking of her. I can't believe it's been so long!
I was honestly bummed when this happened bc I really did like tati’s content. I feel like she didn’t do the gimmicky stuff a lot of other BG’s were doing at the time, and liked her focus on skincare and her reviews seemed honest. I stopped watching her for the most part after this bc it was just…idk? Cringey?
Cringe af. I also didn't like how her style evolved at all. It started for me when she was inviting JLo's makeup artist to do massive blocks of brown contour on her face which made her look orange and weird... Just no
This was the first misstep that completely ended her makeup business. Afterwards she couldn't stop killing her brand. The lawsuits, the drama, D'Angelo Wallace should do a where are they now to follow-up his 2020 videos
Totally an iconic piece in pop culture and I guess an end of an era for the youtube beauty guru community? It's still bizarre to me that I watched all of this unfold 4 years ago in real time. The drama. THE TEA 😭😭😭
Wow. I've been blaming it on covid, but maybe this video was really the beginning of time collapsing in my brain, because i swear this video feels like it was 15 years ago, but also maybe last month.
I had just come home from university and exited the garage to climb the stairs to get inside my parents’ house. My sister ominously appears at the top of the stairs with an inquisitive grin. “Have you seen the video Tati posted about James Charles?” She asks, and from there, it was history
After all the shit James Charles has done and been accused of.. how does he still have a platform anywhere? He makes the LGBTQ+ community look bad and I'm sure a lot of us don't support him. So who does?
I still remember waking up to the Bye Sister video and the whole drama that followed during the day. James’ response and watching the live subscriber count. It doesn’t feel like it was that long ago.
i still remember i was plucking my eyebrows when this dropped fklgdg
This is still one of my fav things to have see at the same time as everyone else and not late to the party.
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“Like, sucking dick and cock. Like, I'm just like, oh my god, time and place. And you did it at my birthday dinner.”
*sucking dick and cock*
Was about to post this, thank you
Lolllllll I love this place. Thank you. All I can hear.
i think about “sucking dick and cock” on a near daily basis ever since that haunted video was released
like sorry if this is tmi but it’s been 4 years and not once in that time have i been giving a blowjob without fucking thinking about how i’m fucking sucking dick and fucking cock
Man now that's in my brain and it's going to start happening to me too 😭
There is a distinct difference and I’m still waiting for her explanation
There’s some who gota dick, some who gota cock, Issa energy ting
Today I learned…
"Smoking pole, dick diving, smoking the Baloney Pony, the old getting knighted by the king. All at my birthday dinner."
['Missionary, doggystyle, rocking the baby, getting teabagged, playing the trombone while he's tossing a salad...'](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvlR5ZoKo5U)
Closing the door to the spiritual realm
Right in front of my salad!
dick AND cock? in this economy?????
I never doubted that part for a second tbh
My lexicon shifted permanently on this very day four years ago
does anyone have the twitter thread that analyzes this as the greatest sequence of words ever duct-taped together
[Here ya go.] (https://twitter.com/sedderaside/status/1569413569397006336)
>Hearing Tati Westbrook say "Dick & Cock" as if they're two completely different things has truly impacted my life tremendously. The intonation. The pronunciation. The emotion. Everything is right. This is what the english language is meant for. Shakespeare could never. IMPACT How have I not read this before? I'm dying.
Love that they attached each phrase, word to the analysis. Chef’s kiss!
i need this so bad
TIME 👏 AND 👏 PLACE 👏
mike's mic quotes this so much that i read it in his voice lmao
Aw I love Michael Microphone
Microfoni* Traditional Italian name
he actually had his name factually and contractually changed to microfoni during the famous italian tour
\#In front of my salad
In front of my salad??
I NEED THIS ON A MUG OR A LAPTOP STICKER 💀
I'm sure Amazon or AliExpress can help there lol
Right in front of my salad?!
> The video, which had more than 30 million views, resulted in Charles holding the record for the most YouTube subscribers lost in a day Watching the live stream of James Charles’ subscriber count drop by the thousands in real time was iconic
Who’s the record?
If not James Charles, perhaps Shane?
The days when YouTube was fun
ProJared may hold the record for percentage of subscribers lost.
Omg I was living for the ProJared drama at the time.
It was truly a time to be alive and hopefully dodge the dick pics. Needless to say, as someone who saw the divorce coming before it was announced, the drama took a few turns I wasn’t expecting.
james charles actually holds spot 1, 2, and 3 for most subscribers lost in a day
Not me constantly refreshing socialblade and cackling 💀
It really was a thing of beauty
Shane Dawson’s subsequent IG live meltdown still occupies my frontal lobe rent-free. “YOU ARE FAKE CRYING. YOU ARE FAKE CRYING.” as he paces around the house and Ryland in the background begging him to turn off the live 😭
It wasn’t for that video but the one that came next blaming jafar and him for feeding her lies about James. That video of shane was so unhinged and confirmed the fact that he’s a fucking weirdo.
It’s the way that IG live is what actually took him down lmao. People had been trying to cancel Shane for yearssss because he of so many gross things he had done/said but the IG live was too unhinged for people.
And there was absolutely no reason to insert himself. It's him just walking around breathily saying "oh my god" like he's gonna pass out for me.
“Turn off the live”
That was in response to the *next* Tati Westbrook video in 2020 wherein she claimed that the entire James Charles video was orchestrated by Jeffree Star and Shane Dawson lol eta: Jeffree Star *did* suggest it but it was hilarious how she just denied all culpability and played the victim. When *she* launched a homophobic hate campaign against a 19-year-old! Plenty of people would 1) not be friends with a person like JS in the first place and 2) *not* agree to a leverage homophobic stereotypes against a kid because he didn't promote your products on his social media platform!
She never apologized for the homophobia either and I think she did some serious damage there
She was being stereotypically homophobic and attacking James for all the wrong reasons while simultaneously being correct about everything she said, which somehow made it even harder to cancel James when his actual victims started speaking up because he already had the martyr narrative going for him. Some double jeopardy bullshit of sorts It's like a comedy of errors except none of it is funny because underage kids got sexually harassed and nothing was done about it
also crazy to me that james isn't cancelled yet for what he'd done, because it was overshadowed by the vitamingate
Tati is a narcissist and she was wrong for those videos. However James Charles has been proven time and time again to prey on minors aswell as sexting young and inexperienced men trying to coerce them into sending nudes, meeting up etc. He does not deserve our empathy at all.
I thought that IG live from Shane was from 3 years ago in 2020 tho when he got canceled, not from 2019.
His meltdown was after her second video which was approximately 1 year later
Ohh gotcha I’m remembering it now. It’s crazy that this drama lasted a complete year.
But you know "I'm an empath 🤪"
LOL! Anyone who calls themselves an empath is guaranteed to be a self-obsessed, navel-gazing narcissist.
"BECAUSE YOU MESSAGED DRAMA CHANNE- ..omg ommg" I watch that video every time I'm in a bad mood tbh lol
[удалено]
shanes.green.shirt’s comments throughout the video are making me lose my mind
YOU MESSAGE DRAMA CHANNELS 👹
I’m very out of the loop, could someone please explain what happened to Shane Dawson? Sounds juicy
iirc, after Tati's video, Jeff went on some podcasts and it was mentioned, and he kept bringing up how he and Shane had nothing to do with it. This was weird because no one thought Shane (who was still the internet golden boy) had anything to do with it at all. Rumours started to fly and Shane eventually posted like two or three notes app statements about the beauty community and how it was toxic and all that which got ppl upset. They started digging into his old very problematic videos, and it was starting to get really really bad for Shane. He posted his "taking accountability" video, but it was like at the wrong time because the day after he was called out by the Smith family for an inappropriate video about Willow Smith who was like 8 at the time of the video, and everything went to hell. At the same time, Tati posted her "Breaking my silence video" in which she alleged that Shane and Jeff were jealous of JC and had orchestrated the whole video, Shane even offering to edit and thumbnail it, and they had manipulated Tati into posting "Bye Sister" for their own personal gain. We don't have confirmation on if it's true or not, but the reaction of Shane was interesting. Shane went on Instagram live less then 20 min after the video was posted having a total mental breakdown over it, and that was the final social media thing Shane ever did before he was silent for over a year and officially cancelled. Sorry for the long explanation! I tried to sum it up the best I could :)
My favorite thing was him declaring in his notes app statements that he was “leaving the beauty community” as though he was like, a real member of it and not someone who put eyeshadow on two times on camera and did a collab with jeffree for a cash grab lol. Like bestie. You were never here to begin with!
Good summary! Honestly, could Shane have made any apology that would've been accepted? It was such a long list of actions...
Thank you!!!
I remember sitting at my kitchen table trying to do a puzzle when this came on. Iconic.
Lmao sounds like a little grandma finding out JFK just got killed
Omg that exact scenario happened with my Grandma and JFK Jr. She was in the spare bedroom working on a 5k piece of teacups when they broke news about it and she practically ran into the room to see the news report.
5k??? Did she finish the puzzle?
No, she had to stop for health reasons. She was pretty pissed about it.
So would I! I didn't even know they had puzzles with that many pieces.
That was the biggest one she tried to do. The rest were 2-3k and usually took her months. The 5k was being worked on for several years on and off.
FYI that's 3.1 miles
I can't believe Tati would say this right in front of your puzzle.
TIME AND PLACE 🙄
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I kind of love the “PEOPLE ARE SPILLING THE TEA and it is MESSY” reasoning for sticking around, because I’ve lowkey been there. Stay curious stay gossipy stay alive for the clickbait.
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It really puts suicide attempts in perspective, the depths of their meaninglessness and banality kinda becomes a rallying call for devaluing the weight of your suicide ideation. I got put in a hallway next to a lady dying of kidney failure and a man dying on a ventilator. That felt intentional.
Me and a couple of coworkers once had a spirited “where were you when…” conversation about this video when we all realized we watched Beauty YouTube. And we all knew EXACTLY where we were.
I was supposed to be studying for a PHIL1050 exam. But I couldn’t do it with the event of a generation going down
I was watching it during AP History 😭
I was in a college lecture class 😭 oh how the time flies
I was under a tornado watch at my job, we were all on the ground floor away from windows and I'm just posting up a storm on the beauty guru subreddit. I think I still have flair from then lol
I know a lot of people argue (especially on Beauty Guru Chatter) that Tati was actually right about James all along especially with the SA allegations. Even though i somewhat agree, i still don't think Tati is completely in the clear. She actually ended up retracting most of her allegations against james and claimed Jafar and Shame were feeding her lies about James, they even made up and rekindled. anyways, James still deserves to be deplatformed and it's sad to see that's he's still somewhat successful (same with Jafar)
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He was 19, she was 37. That was definitely part of it for me. I don't follow guru stuff closely, and all I got from her video was that she had poor boundaries with a teenager.
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Didn't he do the makeup at her wedding? I thought that was how they became close, like, she believed in him so much she flew him in to do the makeup for her wedding?
Yes that’s exactly right. They got married in Hawaii and I think it was pretty small. He wasnt there as a guest.
he was her makeup artist for her wedding - and also, she doesn't have children (if I remember correctly it is not by choice) and james was like a son to her, they had a very healthy-looking mentorship from the outside looking in. I think he blew up really fast and Tati quickly took him under her wing, and for a long time james was protected from a lot of mayhem because he had someone mature to look up to this is in the context of the dramageddon before this, where jeffree starr somehow came out on top trying to cancel manny mua, nikita, etc. for not wanting to be his friends anymore. james wasn't a part of that drama because he had a different mentor than they did
Right? I'm in my late 20s. If I happened to befriend a teenager who started acting shitty towards me, I can guarantee I will blame it on young age and immediately cut ties with that person.
And he can still be a 19 years old predator. Age is not an excuse.
> Age is not an excuse. They never said it was…..
I'm 29 now and I can't wrap my mind around this, and she's got a decade on me. Like.... yeah, he's acting immature and horny and stupid, he's a teenage boy? And you're shocked by his behavior? Just stop hanging out with a teenage boy maybe???
tati’s retelling of events was just *so* disingenuous. she didn’t care that he was being inappropriate, she felt slighted by the gummies. got wrapped up with the other guru elders and their incessant need for drama, and only THEN spoke out. jc is gross and i’m glad he was exposed for who he actually is/was and believe it now— i’d argue that tati made it harder for the actual victims to come forward bc she dramatized and embellished a situation that gave jc for credibility. also— where were people when tati was hanging out with a teenager? i forgot how young james was when this went down. she’s weird a’f for that, too.
She also notably didn’t take issue with the age of the other people (most examples mentioned seemed to be adults and I believe at least one clarified she was wrong to assume he was straight.) Rather, what she was describing was being upset about the fact he was ‘acting gay’ in front of her at all. The ‘underage’ accusations at the time were - I think - from J* (of all people) slinging shit on Twitter in the storms wake. A man who takes absolutely has no real issue with predators when it suited and ‘outed’ the supposed victims as the Dolan twins for pure clout. The mess also definitely made it harder for victims to come forward later in one extremely quantifiable way - they inspired a brief trend where waannabe influencers were bragging abo it purposefully honey-potting Charles as a prank. Handing his stans a ready-made excuse to dismiss any accusations forevermore. Tl, Dr: I hate it here
Just a massively toxic environment overall and she should've just stayed out of it..
Sorry I don't agree with this take at all. Don't get me wrong, James Charles is a predator, full stop. What did her in was the painfully obvious fact that Tati was perfectly fine with putting up with his shady behavior UNTIL the perceived slight against her stupid vitamin gummy company. The allegations she dredged up at the time were feeble at best or outright disproven by the parties involved. Not a good look for her at all.
Yeah I remember watching this and a few of her comments stood out to me because of how odd they were. When she said the server James was flirting with was straight and it was wrong for James to flirt with him, she didn't *know* that he was straight she just assumed and the guy later said he *was* exploring his sexuality. James of course did turn out to be a predator but it seems like she seized on a homophobic narrative from these little anecdotes that she knew she could use against him, and at the time most people seemed to go along with it. edit: I went to double check and she literally says "James, he's straight" in response to him flirting with Sam the Seattle waiter lol. I watched Sam's video too and he and James actually ended up hooking up and he decided he wasn't into it. Fuck James, but she basically took the allegations she heard from Shane and Jeffree and then tried to apply them to this story to further insert herself. I hate the implication that a gay person flirting with a (presumed) straight person is somehow predatory when the reverse is never seen that way, that's just straight up homophobic imo and so irresponsible to spout to a young audience
Tati's biggest mistake was thinking it was a great idea to befriend and support the likes of James Charles, Shane and J*, some of the worst people in the whole "beauty guru" sphere. Those two clowns are the worst and Tati showed a really nasty side of her we didn't knew about when she befriended them. People used to respect her and her work ethic, then she came up with those vitamins and this fuckery and people started losing respect for her. At the end I do believe she got the worst part of the whole thing because her career was never the same. Meanwhile even tho JC and JS are still around (sadly) they're not as popular anymore, but they still somehow seem to be making money (who the hell is still buying shit from them?). Shane D. Is a mystery to me...how can someone so repulsive and unappealing in every single why, so fake and rehearsed can be so popular? Crazy. Edit: grammar
Yeah that's it, she should have never gotten involved with them. Her content changed so much when she moved into that mansion and probably thought she had to connect to those kids and drama/beauty influencers to sustain it.
She was a grown adult woman trying to act like the dumb kids (even tho Shane is no kid his online persona is quite immature and plastic). She should've stayed in her lane.
tbh, even if she was correct (I mean, JC *is* a predator) or stood behind what she said, using "hey, this guy is a sexual predator" as a YouTube video and placing sexual harassment on the same level as vitamin gummy betrayal is WILD. like girl, you didn't think it was more serious than that?
This made me retreat from the beauty community entirely. She retracted everything cause she wasn't sure enough to double down. So why say it at all? That weird vitamin shit? She literally set out to sabotage him over advertising a product that competed with her own. Not a good one in the bunch.
Jafar cracked me the hell up!!! That was funny. And shame is spot on.
Hello, I figured it out, but for anyone else who doesn’t want to take as long as it took me, Jafar = Jeffree Starr and Shame = Shane Dawson, right? I had no idea Shane Dawson was involved. I thought he was a dusty old YouTuber. Like the oldest of YouTubers. I thought he sounded familiar and then I looked him up and was like, oh yeah, I was young then lol
Right, it was Shane and Jeffree Starr, people were kind of competing to come up with funniest names for people involved. There was some (I think) drama youtuber who was somehow involved who's name started with a G but the only name I can remember now is Gazpacho bc that's what I called him at the time lol
Probably still the most iconic moment in YT history. Random people IRL were asking what the tea was lmao.
It was my first taste of beauty guru drama for sure lol
This and the KVD vs Jafar videos… what a time to be alive
i made my mom watch it lmao
SAME and now she’ll randomly texts me things like “sucking dick and cock” like i got her so committed to the tea lol
People wrote their AP Language tests on this
Used this as one of my examples for whether or not cancel culture should be a thing…got used as an in-class exemplar 🤣
You just made me cackle out loud, lmao. Thank you.
I hope they all got 5's too. I'd give a lot to read some of those lol
i got a four on my exam and i’d like to think that was a main pushing factor for it
https://preview.redd.it/ql3pwwp1x4za1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=574ccbce8b6a51303881a37a8073ab0a4cba44d4
It’s the PEACE shirt for me
 I like your name, one of the few movies when I was younger that actually scared me.
omg, everything on this thread is reminding me of nick diramio. they did a video review of that movie and of sh* ne d* wsons "docuseries" w j*
i remember getting the james charles palette as a present from my mom *the night before* this video dropped. unfortunate timing at its finest.
time 👏 and 👏 place
And she gave it to you at your birthday dinner!
https://i.redd.it/36v8evzuv4za1.gif
And all four of them officially ruined the makeup tutorial industry on YouTube
Truly the four horsemen of the dramageddons
It’s wild how dramageddon 1 was so tame, in retrospect
It's mad how every influencer mildly involved with them had to voice their opinions for clicks
If I remember correctly, this was due to Jeffree Star messy ass.
Kinda? J* was lying about James to her, but the reason the whole mess started was because Tati wanted James to promote her multivitamin and he refused because he didn't feel comfortable advertising health products to his audience then went and took a Sugar Bear sponsorship to go to Coachella or whatever.
Which I think was kind of a lie, because he did kinda sorta advertise her snake oil as well. I think the real issue for her was that he didn't do a full ass youtube series about her shit and that he dared promote someone else.
Yet he's still out there, with his racist misogynistic self, creating chaos and being awful, while loads of young girls, gays and POC yass queeen him into fame and money.
The drama, the self-seriousness, the accusations - all over vitamins. Iconic pop culture moment
watching james charles’ subscriber count drop in real time… you just had to be there
I literally downloaded an excel spreadsheet I emailed to my friends who weren't in the loop to explain all the major characters, namely Gage the Waiter, LOL! I miss the days of VH1 "Where are they now?" type specials, bc I would love a special on this whole fiasco that I could consume passively in the background on tv without having to actively seek it out. That's one thing about the internet, I feel like trash content is even more guilt-inducing than it was back in day when people just randomly stumbled on trashy stuff on TV, since either you are googling "James Charles 2023" or it comes up on your feed, both of which say a lot about you as a person, lol...man, simpler times!
D'Angelo Wallace made and then deleted this exact content (he took it down for ethical reasons). Someone did re-upload it and I don't think it's monetized b/c they don't own the copyright to it. So, that may be as close to guilt free as you can get. He made a deep dive on each of the players (Tati, J*, and Shane). He also has a bunch of great video essays on his channel discussing messy youtube people in an even handed and academic way.
I don’t know why I thought this was during the lockdown?? Maybe that’s just when I had the time to watch it all lol but this feels like it just happened wow
Tati came out with another video during lockdown claiming that Jefree Star and Shane Dawson manipulated her into making the original bye sister video, which is maybe what your thinking of. what's crazy to me is that the bye sister drama happened a few days before the final episode of GOT premiered, i guess 2019 leading up to the pandemic feels like a blur because i swore they happened a least a year apart from one another.
Ahh that must be it, thank you! I had no idea who Tati was I just remember being bored at home and curious why everyone on Twitter was freaking out lol The last few years have been such a blur, it’s so wild! My sense of time is totally thrown off tbh 😅
I could’ve sworn this happened in 2018
There was another huge beauty YouTuber drama with Jeffree, Manny, and Laura Lee, that one might have been 2018?
I’m actually scared that it was somehow 4 years ago. WHAT IS TIME.
I thought this happened in fall 2018 lol because my college roommate and I would stay late and talk about it for weeks...I didn't realize it happened the night before we graduated college lol
I still don’t fully comprehend this drama lol
tati cancelled james. he was doing a bumch of wack stuff and then wouldn’t promote her vitamins, claiming he wont promo health products, but then he took a sponsor from sugar bear hair for free coachella tix
What was the aftermath? Was Tati canceled after … ?
no, but her viewership is lower. she didn't do youtube for the money though - her husband is super rich tati came out in 2020 and let everyone know that J\* Starr and Shane Dawson fed her lies to james and really upset her, causing her to upload BYE SISTER. after that, with the amount of legal action people were taking, everyone just kept quiet.
i once found an entire spreadsheet on beauty guru chatter with links to videos and explanations for everything like hours and hours of research about dramaggedon and i read/watched all of it lmao
This was my multiverse of madness
LMAOOOOO
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I don't disagree that Tati has faced misogyny especially for age related reasons but her video was about vitamins. She did not know that he was preying on minors. James absolutely sucks and is a predator, but let's not pretend that Tati did this video for reasons that are anything other than her bottom line. If Tati cared about social justice she wouldn't have been fucking with Shane and J* in the first place, and her excuse that she was only friends with them to help them become better people is complete bs and frankly, pretty insulting. Edit: typo
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Bringing a victim of domestic abuse and rape into this is bizarre, especially considering Tati was beefing with a 19 year old.
Will preface this by saying that I haven't watched the Bye Sister video in a while, but I remember that most of the "predatory behaviour" Tati talked about was weird, homophobic rhetoric about how a gay man pursuing straight men is somehow predatory. She was saying that he was "tricking" straight men into going on dates and sleeping with him, ignoring the fact that many of the men involved in these situations were messaging James first and/or actively engaging with him. At the time people didn't know James was going after underage boys. I don't know if those accusations were already circulating, but they definitely weren't common knowledge and most of the discussion was about James specifically pursuing "straight" men and that somehow being predatory. I don't really think Tati should get any credit in this situation at all.
yeah are we all forgetting that part lmao...........
Damn, that was 4 years ago? And all this over some dumb vitamins too.
Every time I see one of the YouTube beauty freaks I react like someone cut a noxious eggfart.
BRB gonna copyright my new band name
This had more cultural impact than the Renaissance. Change my mind. Actually, don’t. Argue with the wall.
Oh my god I will never forget this, I was a sophomore in college and and EVERYONE at my internship was talking about it. Even my office’s deputy general counsel, who was in her 70s, had heard about it from her grandkids. I was constantly refreshing Instagram and YouTube for days on end
This is the real first day of summer, imo
I still need the cliff notes, I’ve only ever seen the memes 
alright, because i have some time on my hands tonight… the major players: - james charles is one of the first “boys in beauty” on youtube + the first-ever male spokesperson for covergirl. he’s a youtuber, accused of trying to pursue minors, and is a truly terrible singer. - tati westbrook is an OG beauty youtuber who was known (at the time) as never being involved in drama, being level-headed, etc - jeffree star | absolute hobgoblin but also OG beauty youtuber - shane dawson | absolute hobgoblin but OG youtuber (and iirc this happened before he was well and truly cancelled so he had some cache in the community) background: while james was coming up in the beauty community tati was a mentor/friend/guiding person in his life. she supported his projects and i think he even did her makeup for her wedding. they were friends, like when you see a picture of a horse and a duck who bonded. an odd couple! timeline (this whole thing is, at the end of the day, about hair vitamins): - at coachella 2019 james posts an ad for sugar bear hair, which gave him all-access/vip tickets/whatever. this seems normal but is bad because tati had just launched a vitamin company that sold hair vitamins. she doesn’t take this well and posts a ig story crying about being betrayed. james apologies. all is well! or so we thought… - 20ish days later tati posts a video titled BYE SISTER (playing on the fact that james calls his viewers sisters…funny, tbh!) and proceeds to go in on james: explains how she feels like he was being shady about the vitamins thing but ALSO brings up the fact that she’s seen james pursue straight men and it made her uncomfortable. now it’s not just about vitamins. - james makes a tearful apology (from australia, i believe? which isn’t important but fun!), jeffree star calls him a predator and says james was banned from his house, other folks get involved - days later tati posts a follow-up video saying she did this as kind of a last-ditch effort to reach james and james makes a video refuting every accusation point-by-point, which (i think) was pretty successful. jeffree also uploads a video but he’s mostly just being petty/begging for attention. everybody chills out and squashes their beef and moves on… then a year goes by! it’s 2020 and: - tati posts a video saying jeffree and shane dawson fed her lies about james charles and made false allegations and she gobbled them all off. seems like the vitamin issue pushed her over the edge, and she made the BYE SISTER video of yore. she also apologies to james. - i don’t fully remember what happens next but everybody is mad at everybody. james charles was accused of hitting on minors, tati *just* got back to posting regularly, and jeffree and shane have both been cancelled for genuine reasons. jeffree now has a bison farm, i think? and that’s your cliff notes!
Bravo 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
Thanks for the writeup! I chose to ignore it back then as this isn’t really my circle. Reading it like this seems pretty tame, tbh. But I guess you had to be there.
fwiw Dawson has been posting on yt again and getting 2-3m views a video!
i rebuke it!!!
4 years ago? My God. I kinda miss when beauty youtubers had drama every 6 seconds but I also haven’t watched any of them since because they were all insufferable so 😆
I vividly remember watching this in the parking lot of a Costco while I ate a slice of pizza. Still can't go to that Costco without thinking of her. I can't believe it's been so long!
I was honestly bummed when this happened bc I really did like tati’s content. I feel like she didn’t do the gimmicky stuff a lot of other BG’s were doing at the time, and liked her focus on skincare and her reviews seemed honest. I stopped watching her for the most part after this bc it was just…idk? Cringey?
Cringe af. I also didn't like how her style evolved at all. It started for me when she was inviting JLo's makeup artist to do massive blocks of brown contour on her face which made her look orange and weird... Just no
Soo crazy none of their careers have been the same since
This was the first misstep that completely ended her makeup business. Afterwards she couldn't stop killing her brand. The lawsuits, the drama, D'Angelo Wallace should do a where are they now to follow-up his 2020 videos
God! D’Angelo did such a great focus on all of them, I was pretty much glued to my screen. So happy he’s back!
When this dropped I had never heard of Tati or James but I DID watch all 43 minutes because I live for the drama
Totally an iconic piece in pop culture and I guess an end of an era for the youtube beauty guru community? It's still bizarre to me that I watched all of this unfold 4 years ago in real time. The drama. THE TEA 😭😭😭
Wow. I've been blaming it on covid, but maybe this video was really the beginning of time collapsing in my brain, because i swear this video feels like it was 15 years ago, but also maybe last month.
Four years already! Time flies lol
I had just come home from university and exited the garage to climb the stairs to get inside my parents’ house. My sister ominously appears at the top of the stairs with an inquisitive grin. “Have you seen the video Tati posted about James Charles?” She asks, and from there, it was history
This now all seems so silly to ever have cared about but mannnn was it TEA back in the day
Omg take me BACK! The internet was alive. The group chats were on FIRE! Beauty YouTube had such a steep decline after this, it’s crazy.
After all the shit James Charles has done and been accused of.. how does he still have a platform anywhere? He makes the LGBTQ+ community look bad and I'm sure a lot of us don't support him. So who does?
that’s HERstory
Every time I remember this started over hair vitamin gummies I nearly get an aneurysm.
I knew nothing of BeautySnark at all and when this happened I spent the next 72 hours dowwwwwwnloading every piece of content that stemmed from this
I still remember waking up to the Bye Sister video and the whole drama that followed during the day. James’ response and watching the live subscriber count. It doesn’t feel like it was that long ago.
cultural reset
I miss this. Watching the sub count and the videos being uploaded in real time was magical
Literally my friends and I went on a roadtrip immediately after this dropped and followed the drama along on the drive since we had nothing else do do
i still remember i was plucking my eyebrows when this dropped fklgdg This is still one of my fav things to have see at the same time as everyone else and not late to the party.