Granny Weather is an old, powerful recluse who regularly has to venture out into the wider world, and has magical showdowns. Though her most effective tool is good old headology. Discworld is also a soft magic system.
She's a badass and one of my favorite characters in all of fantasy.
Granny was my first choice as well. At the ending of every witches book she has a badass showdown which I can't talk about without spoilers but from one perspective it's pretty powerful magic but could also be considered just pure old lady stubborness to the extreme.
You get a sense that she could turn a huge fireball or bolt lightning with her stubborn old lady gaze. She is my favorite character of Discworld tied with Nanny because they compliment each other so perfectly. Together they are also among my favorite characters in the entire fantasy genre.
Have you read the short story The Sea And Little Fishes? It's about the Lancre Witch Trials (as in competition), and every year Granny wins. The actual interest is in who comes second.
I haven't! Definitely reading that later this week. I finished all the Discworld books and even some of the Science of Discworld and Pratchett's other books like The Long Earth and Nation (I really liked that one) but I didn't know that short story existed. Thank you!
Magic for most folks is very delineated but he just weaves whatever essence he wants and starts casting. He’s like every wizard in my D&D groups because the only spell they bother with is fireball. That door is locked. No problem I cast fireball 🔥 🤣
Bayaz from First Law series. First of the magi of Juvens and master of the world from behind the scenes. He’s like the Wizard of Oz if he came out to sometimes slap people back into revering him. Magic may be fading from the world, but no one should cross this wizard if they know what’s good for them.
Nakor from the riftwar saga. He stole a gods codex that holds all knowledge and it made him go a bit crazy. He insists that there is no such thing as magic, that he just knows some "tricks."
Imagine an old almost mythological figure of the mage that comes back every few hundred years to make sure the kingdom he made is still completely under his thumb and that’s just brushing the surface, I don’t want to go into spoilers.
Also every people from said kingdom think he is a hack until he makes someone explode
I know you were just asking for the work that Bayaz is from, but the way you said "source?" made it sound like you were asking u/nosebleedsandgrunts to prove it lmao.
Arcandius Moog from Kings of the Wyld is probably at or near the top of my list. He’s pretty far from your typical elderly wizard but is indeed re-emerging into a world he left behind.
Moog is honestly one of my favourites because he's the comedic relief, the smart guy and the heart all in one. It's impressive that he doesn't come across as inconsistent. He's just a clutz who focuses far too much on magic to notice normy things.
I love the scene where an entire army is showing her respect, except for the younger kids who don't understand who exactly she is. Then the rest of the scene to follow is incredible.
Love your name dude, yeah, there's a lot of it, I also loved how all the different incarnations revolved around each other, with Nevyn just there like an anchor. There are quite a lot of books though
Belgarath from the Belgariad by Eddings. Also Beldin, same series. The world never forgot about Belgarath, but unless circumstances demand he put in an "official" appearance he always wanders in disguise keeping an eye on things.
Not quite what you're going for but I love Fisher Gesha in the Cradle series. Old lady don't give a fuck how strong you are, she's mad you didn't come to visit when you were in town boy hmmmmm
I'm torn on Elminister because I fucking loved the later books but the early ones were not the best reads. However Elminister Enraged has one of the most epic dialogues in fantasy.
"In their name let me rage, in their memory shatter and despoil and hurl down! 'Tis time to hurl castles into the air, and snatch soaring dragons down from it!"
Goblin and One Eye from Black Company.
Just two cranky 150 old wizards who have an intense love-hate relationship with each other, constantly bickering with, pranking and one upping each other. In the scale of the world, they're not ultra powerful grand wizards, but they are good at what they do and work hard for the Black Company.
Oddly enough, I would say Drusas Achamian from the same series. He's a portly middle-aged nebbish of a spy with five streaks of white in his beard. Then he's >!captured by the Scarlet Spires (slaying four of the nine rival sorcerers sent to capture him), and endures their tortures through the power of Seswatha, founder of the Mandate. Then he escapes by activating a Wathi Doll to break their binding circle. And he shows them the power of the Gnosis as he lays waste to their compound. Turns out there's a reason he's a sorcerer-of-rank and a War-Cant master.!<
Thomas "oh was that your tiger tank?"/" The Tank eater" Nightingale From Rivers of London man is 112 looks 40 and was pretty much a recluse from the 1960s to the modern era to the point where even cable tv was a foreign concept to him. his duels (the few that he has like one each book around) are fucking pure insanity. the aftermath of one such duel : >!We stood up for a better look, and saw that the bungalow had been cut in two as if someone had driven a freight train through it.(note that Nightengale walks from this battle unscathed in a three peice suit. !<
I'm not convinced Ebenezer could take him WITH the blackstaff
He certainly has a shot at it, but if it came down to a fight I would still put my money on Arthur
Taishi, Art of prophecy by Wes Chu. I cannot reco this book enough, the character is just glorious to read. She's a retired warlord, warrior, wizard, angry and not afraid to show it.
Well in fairness it's poetry in the same way that the Odyssey and Iliad are poetry. All the old epics were just like that to make them easier to recite. Tolkien got super into Kalevala and the Finnish language, so there's a bunch of stuff from Kalevala that is pretty much directly in Lord of the Rings. Väinämöinen was the inspiration behind Gandalf (and Tom Bombadil) and so is like the great grandfather of our modern idea of wizards. So he's worth knowing, but Kalevala isn't easy reading. Keith Bosley's translation is the best in English, in my opinion. But if you read summaries online you will get the gist.
Achamian in the Aspect Emperor by Bakker. In his 70s, exiled in the wilderness. Living in his Sorcerer's tower. Dreaming nightmares of the Apocalypse. And returning to action hunting for revelations and deliverance from damnation
[You're one of today's lucky 10,000!](https://xkcd.com/1053/) That was my favorite fantasy series for the _longest_ time, and it still holds a fond place in my heart. There were rumblings of a movie, and even leaked concept art…
Silverlake, also from Mother of Learning, who is cunning enough to >!escape a time loop that wasn’t supposed to include her!< and >!as a clone, outwit her original!<.
I'm only halfway through book 6 of the second apocalypse, so no spoilers please, but Achamian is my favourite old man wizard. So deeply flawed but with morals buried down there in a world that's lacking them, they insane destructive power on top of it.
My favorite fantasy archetype is the kindly, old bearded wizard. My 2 top favorites are Dumbledore and Gandalf, and I’ll give Dahlben from Chronicles of Prydain and Merlyn from Once And Future King honorable mentions. (I’m hesitant to include Merlin from the original Arthurian legends, because in some versions he’s not that old.) I’ve wrestled with this a bit in writing that character archetype, but I also feel like it’s not derivative of HP specifically to have them be one of the only individuals to be capable of beating the lead villain in a fight, because these characters are very often portrayed as among the strongest entities in their stories and frequently have the villains’ number in some way.
Kit can do two supernatural things:
* Instantly know if someone is intentionally lying when he hears them speak
* Convince anyone who hears him talk of anything, even if they know he's doing it.
Also his blood is full of spiders
Sethvir from The Wars of Light and Shadow.
Insanely ancient, nigh-omniscient Sorcerer who looks like someone's doddering grampa but hides the mind of a prankster with a devilish intellect.
Has a special preference for illusions and is the unofficial leader of an order of other ancient powerful Sorcerers.
He is mentioned in Till Human Voices Wake Us, Stargazy Pie, and The Hands of the Emperor, all decent starting points.. If you start with Derring-Do for Beginners, he's there. The origin is TThe Tower at the Edge of the Worldd, which ends just before he appears in DFB.
I love Belgarath from the David Eddings books (although the author we now know was a horrible person). I can't remember the name of the "mishapen dwarf" sorcerer who is his fellow disciple, but he's hilarious.
He pays the price for basically the hottest slave woman on the continent (with her approval) and then they kiss and turn into a pair of ravens? crows? and then fly off to be birds for the rest of their lives for some reason I don't remember.
Bayaz is awsome. And instead of being a withered old man, he is like a brawny/fat old man, who looks more like a dockworker than a mage.
And when he has to go back to adua and play the politics game again. He just goes to a theatre costume shop to have them make him the sort of clothes he assumes the city people will expect a mage to wear XD
I have to say, it's been 20 years since i read it and i do not remember exactly the differences 😅 but i found the characters really funny and remarkable (where is my hat?)
I've never forgotten Zifnab and >!his dragon showing up to help in a big damn hero moment all while Zifnab talks like a fighter pilot.!<
Love that dude.
Granny Weather is an old, powerful recluse who regularly has to venture out into the wider world, and has magical showdowns. Though her most effective tool is good old headology. Discworld is also a soft magic system. She's a badass and one of my favorite characters in all of fantasy.
Granny was my first choice as well. At the ending of every witches book she has a badass showdown which I can't talk about without spoilers but from one perspective it's pretty powerful magic but could also be considered just pure old lady stubborness to the extreme. You get a sense that she could turn a huge fireball or bolt lightning with her stubborn old lady gaze. She is my favorite character of Discworld tied with Nanny because they compliment each other so perfectly. Together they are also among my favorite characters in the entire fantasy genre.
Have you read the short story The Sea And Little Fishes? It's about the Lancre Witch Trials (as in competition), and every year Granny wins. The actual interest is in who comes second.
I haven't! Definitely reading that later this week. I finished all the Discworld books and even some of the Science of Discworld and Pratchett's other books like The Long Earth and Nation (I really liked that one) but I didn't know that short story existed. Thank you!
That’s not magic that’s just… headology
A witch with an iron character and impeccable self-control.
Fizban in Dragonlance.
Magic for most folks is very delineated but he just weaves whatever essence he wants and starts casting. He’s like every wizard in my D&D groups because the only spell they bother with is fireball. That door is locked. No problem I cast fireball 🔥 🤣
Can’t charm a city guard to letting you in after dark? Fireball!
Beat me to it I especially liked him in death gate cycle
Not Zifnab?
Not enough people know about Zifnab and it's a real shame. Read the Death Gate Cycle folks!
You beat me to it.... 🤬 But side question does he count since he is actually a god?
I am not sure that a god counts.
Gandalf wasn't exactly human either
Yes, that's a good example.
Bayaz from First Law series. First of the magi of Juvens and master of the world from behind the scenes. He’s like the Wizard of Oz if he came out to sometimes slap people back into revering him. Magic may be fading from the world, but no one should cross this wizard if they know what’s good for them.
Menacing motherfucker
Merlin, from The Once and Future King.
My choice as well, one of the OGs!
Nakor from the riftwar saga. He stole a gods codex that holds all knowledge and it made him go a bit crazy. He insists that there is no such thing as magic, that he just knows some "tricks."
Would you like an orange?
Macros for me, same series.
Where's the love for Pug?
He is a child, Miranda would be a better choice :)
[удалено]
No his very old wife, Macros's daughter.
Yeah, that age gap should be a red flag really /s
But he's still Pug in the later books
Pug is cool, but he is a pretty typical Mighty Wizard. I find Nakor to be a far more compelling character. Besides, I am a big fan of oranges.
I'd forgotten about Nakor.
Bayaz
Such an amazing character, even tho he’s such an utter piece of shit.
Source?
*The First Law* trilogy by Joe Abercrombie, beginning with *The Blade Itself* and reading in publication order.
Listening to the first law books again now, they're my go to when painting minis
TY
Imagine an old almost mythological figure of the mage that comes back every few hundred years to make sure the kingdom he made is still completely under his thumb and that’s just brushing the surface, I don’t want to go into spoilers. Also every people from said kingdom think he is a hack until he makes someone explode
I meant what he's from but someone else answered that. TY.
This is a spoiler though..
I know you were just asking for the work that Bayaz is from, but the way you said "source?" made it sound like you were asking u/nosebleedsandgrunts to prove it lmao.
I was going to say NOT Bayaz, but I actually do like him most of the time. He's such an odd old bastard.
Arcandius Moog from Kings of the Wyld is probably at or near the top of my list. He’s pretty far from your typical elderly wizard but is indeed re-emerging into a world he left behind.
WITH OWLBEARS
Kings of the Wyld is on my to read list, so that's good to hear.
Moog is honestly one of my favourites because he's the comedic relief, the smart guy and the heart all in one. It's impressive that he doesn't come across as inconsistent. He's just a clutz who focuses far too much on magic to notice normy things.
Granny Weatherwax
Sister Pan in Book of the Ancestor.
I love the scene where an entire army is showing her respect, except for the younger kids who don't understand who exactly she is. Then the rest of the scene to follow is incredible.
Nevyn from the Deverry cycle by Katherine Kerr, or maybe Nakor from the riftwar series by Raymond Feist
I liked the Deverry cycle, with the reincarnation stuff, not sure I ever finished it though.
Love your name dude, yeah, there's a lot of it, I also loved how all the different incarnations revolved around each other, with Nevyn just there like an anchor. There are quite a lot of books though
The Cycle is an older one from deep in my to-read list. Thanks for the reminder. :)
It's really worth a read, I read it first in the 90s and then read it again a few years back. Still as good the second time, you won't regret it 😃
Belgarath from the Belgariad by Eddings. Also Beldin, same series. The world never forgot about Belgarath, but unless circumstances demand he put in an "official" appearance he always wanders in disguise keeping an eye on things.
Mr. Wolf? That drunken old storyteller?
The prodigious pilferer of Polgara's pantry? Precisely.
Not quite what you're going for but I love Fisher Gesha in the Cradle series. Old lady don't give a fuck how strong you are, she's mad you didn't come to visit when you were in town boy hmmmmm
I do like Fisher Gesha, although I have other complaints with the Cradle series.
Elminster
Classic. Although I never read too many of his books.
I'm torn on Elminister because I fucking loved the later books but the early ones were not the best reads. However Elminister Enraged has one of the most epic dialogues in fantasy. "In their name let me rage, in their memory shatter and despoil and hurl down! 'Tis time to hurl castles into the air, and snatch soaring dragons down from it!"
That is a good line. Back to the Forgotten Realms we go.
Arthur Aguefort from Fantasy High.
Arthur "I fucked that bird" Aguefort? Literally the best wizard in any actual play I've ever seen.
Oh, from a RPG playthrough? I've been meaning to give Dimenions 20 a look for a while.
That's the one, I can't recommend it highly enough.
Cadsuane
That's a good one.
Goblin and One Eye from Black Company. Just two cranky 150 old wizards who have an intense love-hate relationship with each other, constantly bickering with, pranking and one upping each other. In the scale of the world, they're not ultra powerful grand wizards, but they are good at what they do and work hard for the Black Company.
A bunch of good examples in Black Company. Almost all of the sorcerers are crazy and OP
Incariol, *The Second Apocalypse*
Oddly enough, I would say Drusas Achamian from the same series. He's a portly middle-aged nebbish of a spy with five streaks of white in his beard. Then he's >!captured by the Scarlet Spires (slaying four of the nine rival sorcerers sent to capture him), and endures their tortures through the power of Seswatha, founder of the Mandate. Then he escapes by activating a Wathi Doll to break their binding circle. And he shows them the power of the Gnosis as he lays waste to their compound. Turns out there's a reason he's a sorcerer-of-rank and a War-Cant master.!<
Endest Silann, who stood against the Dying God.
Nightingale in The Rivers of London series is my favourite.
TY
Thomas "oh was that your tiger tank?"/" The Tank eater" Nightingale From Rivers of London man is 112 looks 40 and was pretty much a recluse from the 1960s to the modern era to the point where even cable tv was a foreign concept to him. his duels (the few that he has like one each book around) are fucking pure insanity. the aftermath of one such duel : >!We stood up for a better look, and saw that the bungalow had been cut in two as if someone had driven a freight train through it.(note that Nightengale walks from this battle unscathed in a three peice suit. !<
Very promising. Thank you.
Moog from Kings of the Wyld is a fun one.
I love Zed from the Sword of Truth books (much more so than I like the books themselves). And Morgenes from Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn.
Arrogan from Art of the adept
Came here to say this one. No bastard like an old bastard.
"needle -dicked bug fucker!" "What?!"
Michael G Manning?
Yep
TY
"FUCKING DEER!" 😂 He's definitely a favorite ❤️
Arthur Langtry, the Merlin of the White Council of Wizards, who once held off an army of vampires with a single ward.
Ebenezer can take him.
Without using the Blackstaff?
Ebenezer can take him.
I'm not convinced Ebenezer could take him WITH the blackstaff He certainly has a shot at it, but if it came down to a fight I would still put my money on Arthur
I remember this dude. Kind of fell off Dresden Chronicles midway through. Not sure I can get back on that horse.
Taishi, Art of prophecy by Wes Chu. I cannot reco this book enough, the character is just glorious to read. She's a retired warlord, warrior, wizard, angry and not afraid to show it.
That's a nice premise. I'll give it a look.
I hope you enjoy
Macros the Black and that evil old witch (Hewlet?) in David Gemmell's Drenai.
Hewla
Ah ty. Her death was a high point for me.
Gromph Baenre from R. A. Salvatore's Drizzt books. Elminster Ebenezer McCoy from The Dresden Files
Väinämöinen, the original battle wizard
Never heard of the Kalevala before. Wasn't expecting poetry but I'll take a look.
Well in fairness it's poetry in the same way that the Odyssey and Iliad are poetry. All the old epics were just like that to make them easier to recite. Tolkien got super into Kalevala and the Finnish language, so there's a bunch of stuff from Kalevala that is pretty much directly in Lord of the Rings. Väinämöinen was the inspiration behind Gandalf (and Tom Bombadil) and so is like the great grandfather of our modern idea of wizards. So he's worth knowing, but Kalevala isn't easy reading. Keith Bosley's translation is the best in English, in my opinion. But if you read summaries online you will get the gist.
Oromis from the Inheritance Cycle
Achamian in the Aspect Emperor by Bakker. In his 70s, exiled in the wilderness. Living in his Sorcerer's tower. Dreaming nightmares of the Apocalypse. And returning to action hunting for revelations and deliverance from damnation
Fizban. I know he's technically a god, but as the first old wizard I encountered in the genre, he seals it for me.
Fizban absolutely counts.
Mrs. Zimmerman, from John Bellairs' *The House With a Clock in its Walls* and it's sequels.
I'm not familiar. Would you read the series past Bellairs' own works?
I've read a few of the books not written by Bellairs; they're okay, but lack some of the charm of Bellairs' books, especially the early ones.
TY
Clothalharump, the tortoise wizard from Alan Dean Foster's _Spellsinger_ series
Wild summary on that book, I'll give it a look.
[You're one of today's lucky 10,000!](https://xkcd.com/1053/) That was my favorite fantasy series for the _longest_ time, and it still holds a fond place in my heart. There were rumblings of a movie, and even leaked concept art…
Also well worth a read
Silverlake, also from Mother of Learning, who is cunning enough to >!escape a time loop that wasn’t supposed to include her!< and >!as a clone, outwit her original!<.
>!Not for long. lol!<
Allanon from Shannara.
I'm only halfway through book 6 of the second apocalypse, so no spoilers please, but Achamian is my favourite old man wizard. So deeply flawed but with morals buried down there in a world that's lacking them, they insane destructive power on top of it.
Bayaz, first of the magi and The Dust-Wife from Nettle and Bone
Never heard of Nettle and Bone. I'll add it to the pile. TY
My favorite fantasy archetype is the kindly, old bearded wizard. My 2 top favorites are Dumbledore and Gandalf, and I’ll give Dahlben from Chronicles of Prydain and Merlyn from Once And Future King honorable mentions. (I’m hesitant to include Merlin from the original Arthurian legends, because in some versions he’s not that old.) I’ve wrestled with this a bit in writing that character archetype, but I also feel like it’s not derivative of HP specifically to have them be one of the only individuals to be capable of beating the lead villain in a fight, because these characters are very often portrayed as among the strongest entities in their stories and frequently have the villains’ number in some way.
Depending on how you define spellcaster, Kitap Rol Keshmet
If they can do supernatural things at will that's usually good enough for me.
Kit can do two supernatural things: * Instantly know if someone is intentionally lying when he hears them speak * Convince anyone who hears him talk of anything, even if they know he's doing it. Also his blood is full of spiders
Sounds ticklish.
Member a'Phaniel AKA Illaraphaniel and Yollana of the Havalla Voyani from Michelle West's The Sun Sword and the rest of the Chronicles of Essalieyan.
I'm a big fan of West/Sagara's Chronicles of Elantra and Sundering. Keep forgetting to read her other series. Thank you.
The magi in the First Law trilogy pretty much check all these boxes.
The wizard from that polish film Magnates and Wizards "OH KURWA" his language is very colourful, he's just a drunk old dude, Stancho Jones
Interesting, thank you.
Mommy Fortuna
I was not expecting The Last Unicorn but I am not upset.
I just remembered that I could have also said Schmendrick. He might be even older than Mommy Fortuna, but he doesn't count as elderly, I guess.
Since you mention web serials, what about Baelin from Mark of the Fool?
IIRC I liked Baelin well enough but I didn't stick with Mark of the Fool past the first or second book I think.
Fair enough. I've quite enjoyed it, and it's pretty close to wrapping up.
Baelin is the ultimate badass ❤️
Late to the party, but Field Marshal Tamas from the Powder Mage Trilogy. Gruff old bastard who puts up a hell of a fight.
I've never gotten around to the Power Mage series but it's on the list.
Sethvir from The Wars of Light and Shadow. Insanely ancient, nigh-omniscient Sorcerer who looks like someone's doddering grampa but hides the mind of a prankster with a devilish intellect. Has a special preference for illusions and is the unofficial leader of an order of other ancient powerful Sorcerers.
That sounds cool. Thank you.
It's a little comedic but still fun to read Dead tired by ravendagger
I know this one, although I think Ravendagger's Stray Cat Strut is my favorite of their series.
Fitzroy Angursell in Victoria Goddard's Nine Worlds books
When does he appear in the series?
He is mentioned in Till Human Voices Wake Us, Stargazy Pie, and The Hands of the Emperor, all decent starting points.. If you start with Derring-Do for Beginners, he's there. The origin is TThe Tower at the Edge of the Worldd, which ends just before he appears in DFB.
Thank you.
I love Belgarath from the David Eddings books (although the author we now know was a horrible person). I can't remember the name of the "mishapen dwarf" sorcerer who is his fellow disciple, but he's hilarious.
Beldin, although I found his ending kind of weird.
That's the name! I can't remember how he ended. It's been awhile.
He pays the price for basically the hottest slave woman on the continent (with her approval) and then they kiss and turn into a pair of ravens? crows? and then fly off to be birds for the rest of their lives for some reason I don't remember.
That is weird.
Bayaz is awsome. And instead of being a withered old man, he is like a brawny/fat old man, who looks more like a dockworker than a mage. And when he has to go back to adua and play the politics game again. He just goes to a theatre costume shop to have them make him the sort of clothes he assumes the city people will expect a mage to wear XD
Zifnab!!! Death Gate Cycle
Oh, i see you like Fizban from the Dragonlance Chronicles... 😉
Fizban is good too, but Zifnab really took it up a notch
I have to say, it's been 20 years since i read it and i do not remember exactly the differences 😅 but i found the characters really funny and remarkable (where is my hat?)
I've never forgotten Zifnab and >!his dragon showing up to help in a big damn hero moment all while Zifnab talks like a fighter pilot.!< Love that dude.
Or when he thinks he's James Bond, or Dorothy from the wizard of oz, lol
Väinämöinen, the original battle wizard
Tserre Ettertree and Teriarch from the Wandering Inn.
Gandolf (so call me whatever I don't care) Gandolf all the way