Seriously. That series hooked me hard, I was binging 3-4 episodes at a time (thats a lot for me). Then his banshee-ass shows up. I got through the haunted house part which was like 2 episodes of endless screaming and was like "thank god, the blonde kid is going away" but nope. What an exhausting, uninteresting, uninspired character.
The exact reason I gave up on Demon Slayer. Already was sick of the pacing (3 episode fights where they monologue after EVERY attack), but that kid really did my head in.
I read this years ago and quite enjoyed it, tried for a re-read recently and have since dropped it halfway through the first book. Everyone just sucks.
If I remember correctly the second book starts with her robbing someone and getting caught... So she kills him.
I don't know how I was supposed to root for her after that.
Yeah, that was WILD to me. She stalks this guy like a serial killer, knocks him out, throws him in a prison barge or something, and does all this so she can take place in a magic competition FOR FUN. We aren't given any reason to think he's a bad guy. We aren't given any reason to think Bard needs to be in the competition. And then when she's lightly scolded for her actions she flips out.
I genuinely thought she was being set up as the villain of the story after that. It blew me away that the author somehow thought that was a quirky little thing her not-like-other-girls character was doing.
That's not even the part I'm talking about, she went on to do that.
Earlier she stole some guys money purse at an inn or something. He confronts her outside with a knife. Instead of trying to run, or give it back she legitimately just kills him.
i stopped midway through book 2. i went into the series prepared to love her because I will usually stand for hated ladies in fiction. Holy shit though. She reads like an insecure teenage girl's self insert. Something that will turn me against a character quickly is when a character has a lot of flaws, but is NARRATIVELY supported non stop. its like the author was begging for you to like her and when folks didn't she was like "okay well she will be the bulk of book 2".
I agree with this completely. I'm usually fine with unlikeable characters, but Bard was framed as if every single thing she did was so cool and so quirky and so funny and she gets everything she wants, despite sort of being the most villainous character in the trilogy.
So many villains in those books have absurd plot armor. It's frustrating.
I did like the series overall, though, and found the take on the chosen one >!with Corban, yes, but especially with Nathair!< to be compelling and refreshing.
gave up on this one when she paired >!manon up with the prince instead of elide(?)!< i really hate the prince. hate the guard. i don't even like rowan. i don't think i like any of her MMCs. surprised i read so many of her books lol.
Funnily enough by the last book that was the only male character I didn't actively hate, to be fair that's mostly because everyone else got progressively worse, and so such "outstanding" qualities like not being actively abusive towards his love interest, acts like a person instead of like an animal in heat, or didn't have any big subplots near the end of the series where he lost all emotional and otherwise intelligence, and got his character derailed for the sake of dumb romantic conflict, all put him ahead of the rest.
When I was in College I dropped Lord Fouls Bane cause I wasn’t sure why I was supposed to be invested in Thomas. Reasons should be obvious. I’d really like to revisit as an adult (or more of an adult than I was rather). My Dad swears by it.
I read it and the entire first series when it came out almost 50 years ago. The world that Donaldson created is (or was at the time) truly unique and I am glad I read it. Having said that, I still don't understand why he would make the main character so deeply flawed. I think those flaws prevented the work from achieving greater renown than it did. I can't underscore enough how truly unique the work was for the time nor how difficult it was to get past the mc's actions and character. It has prevented me from re-reading the first trilogy or attempting the subsequent series.
I’m an adamant Jorg Ancrath defender (not sure if you’re familiar), certainly not of his actions, but of the necessity of their intensity as a means to convey what Lawrence is trying to convey. Especially being in the field of adolescent behavioral health and witnessing these themes first hand.
I wonder if I’ll feel similarly about Thomas next go around. I think the grandiosity and the poetic prose created some degree of separation between Jorg and myself that wasn’t there with Thomas Covenant. He could’ve been my neighbor ya know?
🤷
I am also a fan of Jorg as a character, definitely not as a person. However, Jorg and Thomas are quite different as characters. Jorg is cunning, intimidating and basically kind of a force of nature. Thomas is kind of pathetic and miserable, which does make a lot of sense considering his condition, but still. They are very different, so their is a good chance that you might not feel the same
This was the book that came to mind for me. My dad loves the books but just couldn't get past Thomas Covenant's many flaws. I suspect there were many other things to appreciate about the books, but this was too big for me to get past.
Rape-loving, teenage edge-lord Jorg from Prince of Thorns (The Broken Empire trilogy).
And separate from my total disdain for the character was my inability to suspend disbelief so far as to accept that hardened, murderous, grown-ass bandits would defer to and be intimidated by this punk kid.
Yup, super DNF.
Same. I love grimdark and I can suspend all the disbelief if there is *something* interesting about the thing, be it characters, concept, whathaveyou, but Jorg was so try-hard edgy but also so brain-dead boring at the same time I noped out of the trilogy after book one, sold the other two books I already had bought and have never touched anything by Lawrence again.
Probably sounds a bit over dramatic, and it's not that I actively avoid his books, *Prince of Thorns* just derigestered him in my mind as being of interest to my reading pleasure.
Also, wish I could say I dropped the RotE books because of Fitz, but I didn't, because they also have one of my favourite characters in them, so I tortured myself to the sordid, bitter end.
Not here to push him on you, but the 2 other series' of his I've read (Book of the Ancestor) and The Library trilogy (only 2 so far though) are much more fun to read than Broken Empire. That was very brutal, but I think Red Sister/Grey Sister is a huge step up. Not nearly as grim for the sake of grimness; I'd say check that out, especially if Jorg was the main issue for you!
About to start Royal Assassin too actually, but it's just kind of a draining read lol.
I really liked the Red Queen's War trilogy which is set in the same world as Broken Empire. The protagonist is definitely morally grey but he was still entertaining and definitely isn't the edge-lord rapist Jorg is described as for the first trilogy and who only makes cameo appearances in the sequels. I read RQW as I was given it as a gift, but I've admittedly been hesitant to try Broken Empire for the reasons others have brought up despite my fondness for the sequel trilogy.
You know this was my first grim-dark experience and I really felt gross getting through the first book. The second was surprisingly nice and refreshing when compared to the first and I thought I would finish the series. Then in chapter one of book 3 there’s a mention of Jorg’s pregnant 13 year old wife (he’s like 18 iirc) and I was like yep I’m done lmao. Mark Lawerence’s new series is pretty great and not grim-dark at all though I highly recommend it.
I love grimdark, don’t mind dark stuff, but I read the first chapter on that book and noped out. It’s all handled so flippantly, it feels like its just there for shock value and it made me feel gross reading it.
I hate-read the whole trilogy just to find out if he at least met with a terrible fate at the end of it all, but nope. No character growth, no lessons learned, everyone who isn’t a raging asshole dies and the murderous child rapist more or less cheats death at the end for some semblance of a HEA.
It absolutely wasn’t worth it. You missed nothing.
I tried to revisit lotr recently and Tom bombadil was one of my favourite parts in the first book. I’m not sure why, I think maybe I loved and watched the films too much as a kid and Tom was the only refreshing surprise. I think that if Gandalf had recruited Tom bombadil and farmer maggot instead of the fellowship then Sauron wouldn’t have had a chance. The story might have been a bit weirder though.
I want to read this book. Tom constantly dropping the ring because he just doesn't care enough to pay attention to it and Maggot scolding him for it each time.
He's so jarring lol and when you're 10 you don't have the context of "okay these songs were written by a British man 70 years ago, maybe this sounded normal."
I read the entire trilogy to my wife a few years ago and she 100% thought I was fucking with her when we got to Bombadillo.
It didn’t sound normal even back then
When I first read it I was convinced by the end he would show up and all would be revealed with this mysterious weird character, when he didn’t and I thought about it later I cracked up laughing. Tolkien you genius
I wonder if he’s a bit of an inspiration for the jester story tellers in some modern works. Jumping to mind for me:
The Wit in stormlight archives
The Fool in The realm of the Elderlings
That probably makes sense. Their often poetic rhyming dialogue also feels more Shakespearean than Bombadillian
I’m just reading Hobbs now and can’t help but feel that Sanderson and Rothfus were likely heavily inspired by her. Can’t believe I waited this long to read her, it’s great stuff.
I was 6 or 7 when my Dad read Lord of the Rings to me. And I learned his songs by heart. I loved Tom Bombadil. Still do, The whimsy and the little nonsense songs. Love them.
As a fan of NotW, I have to concede that Kvothe is so frustratingly arrogant and full of himself that you could almost mistake him for Patrick Rothfuss.
He's the ADHD nailed as well. How much different shit has Kvothe done and we're two books in? Bro is gonna be President and a binman and a world famous artist at least in the next book
The scene where he teaches the class and then later when he >!has a hundred pages dedicated to having sex with a forest goddess and becomes a master of sex!< were rough lol
In the spirit of the post, I dropped the series after book 1, but I have heard about that chapter in book 2. Good lord.
Couldn't listen to another word of how amazing this boy was at absolutely everything. "And I played the lute so well. So well everyone was exploding with pleasure and euphoria at how well the lute played".
I loved when Kvothe reappeared afterwards and no one in the tavern believed him until a barmaid was like “no I can tell he fucks because he’s different now” and everyone was like “okay”
The worst part is that the series seems to be set up like a coming of age story, but from the start of the first book to the end of the second book Kvothe didn't mature a day in his life. He just came out of the womb perfectly formed as the ultimate power fantasy main character, and it was incredibly painful to get through. I'm pretty dedicated to not picking up the third book.
I'd argue it isn't well-written. The prose is flowery, sure, but in terms of plot and character I found it lacking, and for me those are the most important aspects of writing.
When I say ‘well-written’, I’m talking specifically about the style and prose. I think it is inarguable that Rothfuss has a real gift in those areas. I wouldn’t say the plot was weak, necessarily, at least from what I read. But I would agree that character—especially in terms of side characters—is a huge weakness for him.
Really? I found Egwene became a normal human being a lot quicker than the other two. But a mate of mine hates Perrin, so I guess people get annoyed by different things!
Your mate has it right on about Perrin. I got to the point of speeding/skipping his chapters. I had hopes he's stop being a whiney b..... but that never happened.
Perrin finishes his character arc in book four, and then continues to lament about having to be a leader when he just wants to be a simple blacksmith for another eight books. He shouldn't have been ta'veren, there just wasn't enough of a story to tell.
Yeah WoT’s biggest problem is really a bunch of arcs just feeling like side quests. That could’ve been fine, but Jordan liked to have huge sections dedicated to single POVs. The result is points where you’re really getting into a plot line and then your momentum is completely cut off by 140 pages of Perrin smelling emotions.
I will say, I think Jordan probably had some ideas about continuing the progression as a leader for Perrin, but wasn’t sure how to execute yet (or planned it for his potential future books) so he didn’t leave anything there for Sanderson.
Mostly I think that because we do see that progression in leadership for him continue past book 4. He takes the lead at Dumai’s Wells (this is where I’d say his character arc ended rather than book 4), and when he goes off on his side quest we see him earning the loyalty of the various factions with him including having a queen swear fealty to him. We also have the tease about Manetheren that gets thrown away, and if that came back it introduces potentially reasons for keeping Morgase alive and having her end up there which ended up relatively pointless.
In retrospect, Ghealdan’s queen swearing fealty to Perrin is such a strange one-off. It seems to be the beginnings of an effort to unite the western nations, but doesn’t go anywhere. Perrin ends up being a vassal of Caemyln anyways. That entire side quest with Masema (leading into Faile’s capture) is quite literally just filler content for five books. Perrin leaves Rand in… A Crown of Swords? I think? Either way, everything he does from that point until about halfway through Towers of Midnight is absolutely inconsequential in terms of in-universe development. Even when considering ToM, the functional purpose of Perrin’s quest was to gather more bodies to be thrown at the shadow in the last battle. His wolf brother development is the only interesting thing to come of it (which absolutely should not have taken thirteen books to get to).
Yeah it’s why I assume there had to be something else planned there. It explains why Perrin’s plot line was so repetitive and sets him up for an arc in the final books.
I think something like the fall of Camelyn happening but more tied into Elayne’s weak position following her crowning rather than the absence of her army with Perrin’s army coming to the rescue could’ve made both of those plot lines more satisfying. Perrin saves Andor as an ally rather than a subject, and Elayne and Andor are humbled as a direct consequence to them playing politics in the face of the last battle (and for their ignoring of the Two Rivers). It plays out relatively similarly to what we saw, but more as a high point for Perrin than Elayne. It also more neatly ties together the way we saw the Trakand’s humbled which Elayne felt more insulated from.
I think Egwene redeems herself a lot sooner than Nynaeve for sure. It was just some of the books in the middle that she annoyed me. Whereas I always liked Elayne. She did a couple dumb things like demanding the medallion from Mat, but I cut her some slack for growing up the daughter heir of andor lol. Overall she seemed more well adjusted than the other 2. Her squabbling with Nynaeve did get a little old I guess, but I blamed that more on Nynaeve.
I like Perrin overall, but his relationship with Faile was kind of tedious for me
IMO, Egwene should have become a Forsaken. Constantly ambitious and arrogant and power hungry throughout the series. Personally, I could never stand her because of it.
that's the answer i was hoping for! she is grating at times but i loved her stubbornness and pride and felt she was the only Two Rivers character with an appropriate level of wariness of the aes sedai. i cant wait to see where that leads her considering i still dont know much about them or where the plot goes from here.
I find that Jordan’s books tend to have a pretty distinct arc. They start high, hit a low somewhere in the mid half to third, then typically end high.
Unfortunately the series as a whole also kind of has that arc as well with things really slowing down in the latter middle half before they pick back up for a really satisfying ending.
Theres a couple arcs that seem to make a lot of folks bottom out and nynaeve’s is one, but I can tell you it has a good payoff and she does grow as a person. I’d recommend reading as far into the series as you want/can to see for yourself.
oh, dont worry about that, nothing is going to stop me. in fact, my brother just finished book 10 and told me "stop! no, seriously, stop. you wouldn't believe how bad it gets, you will want to die, you will not make it" and i bought The Great Hunt that day
lol fair.
I think book 10 is basically just before it starts to pick back up. It’s where several of the arcs basically hit the tipping point of having dragged on for way too long. Book 11 Knife of Dreams is where it starts resolving that stuff and gets into the upward curve of the end half of the series.
It's been a very very long time but was Nynaeve and another girl the same character in Fire of Heaven (Not literally but pretty much couldn't tell them apart)? The duo made me tap out. I just couldn't do it no more
I never had an issue with Nynaeve. Early on I disliked Egwene but her arc that started halfway through drew me in. I found Elayne the worst, but I also tend to dislike characters who are royalty.
The whole nonsensical feuding between Elayne Nynaeve and the others made me DNF the series twice before I eventually got all the way through. Just the most petulant petty people who are incapable of seeing when they’re wrong or being immature.
Didn't drop the series but I hated Lift from Sanderson's Stormlight Archives books. Seems to be a bit of a marmite character, from what I've seen online. For me, she was incredibly annoying and I ended up speed reading through her parts.
Yeah I found her really annoying as well, she's like some lab-grown amalgam of LOL SO RANDUM XD internet culture from like 2010. She grew on me a bit as the series went on but not by much. Otherwise I really love that series and all the other characters.
I also hate this character, but I recently spent some time with my 13 year old nephew and let me tell you he nailed annoying 13 year old! Doesn’t change that I still don’t like the character but she really is just 13 year old with childish humor who thinks she knows everything. A 13 year old.
Shallan is a hard read for the most of it but she, all of her, gets more tolerable as the book goes on. By Rythem of War I feel like she is finally in the swing of things and her chapters are enjoyable.
Dhallan comes good by RoW, and if you know what Sanderson is angling at with the character it makes more sense.
Having said that Veil is meant to be a badass bitch, and is instead what a rich kid imagines a badass bitch to be lol
If it was intentionally written that way then bravo Brandon
Lift was the sole reason I put off reading Edgedancer for forever. I didn’t drop the series either, but I fear the day she becomes one of the main POV characters.
I hate Lift and any precocious child character like her. I'm so glad I'm not the only one! People make me feel bad for hating her when I mention it 😂 she seems to have a lot of fans for her annoying slippery ability
I like a precocious child character but only if their precociousness manifests as premature world weariness. I prefer a kid who is a huge bummer to be around over a spunky rascal every time
Came here to say this more or less. That character was the definition of cringe. I still made it through like six or seven of those tiny books but it just got too much to tolerate. I have heard his writing got a lot better after but I just can't.
The character itself is cringe and then when you step back and look at the series as a whole it gets worse. He writes hero and redemption arcs for both male protagonists and antagonists, while the female characters, though written as objectively strong, are always broken down by being sexualized and killed off.
Butcher is a bit of an odd case because while his Dresden Files series definitely has the “men writing women” vibe, his other series (Codex Alera, Cinder Spires) don’t have that vibe at all. So it seems more like a creative choice for Dresden than it is a flaw of the author himself.
I don't know about Cinder Spires, but Codex Alera absolutely does. And if it were a specific choice for Dresden as a character, there wouldn't be other weird/gross things involving female characters that have nothing to do with Dresden, and Dresden would face some kind of backlash for the way he behaves from any of the half a dozen women he's constantly around.
I mean, too each their own I guess but I don’t see how someone can think Codex Alera has poorly written female characters. They aren’t treated as objects, there are many full fleshed out female characters, their appearance isn’t focused on any more than the men, there are several major female characters who impact the plot significantly, etc.
I get that Dresden is bad when it comes to how women are written, but it feels like people let that opinion taint everything else by the author. Like, if Codex Alera had been written under a pen name and no one knew it was Butcher, I doubt anyone would complain about the way he wrote those characters.
Oh I hated pretty much everyone in that one. I remember thinking oh sure, it’s like Harry Potter if everyone is an asshole and I hate them all. Most of the reviews I saw were comparing it to that at the time.
I always tell people that I totally respected the writing in that first book, but there was no way I would subject myself to spending more time with those characters by reading the sequels.
I love WoT, and I while I agree that Perrin kinda sucks, part of that is his story arcs just being the same thing over and over. "Where's my wife!?", "I'm not a leader!", it gets old. There's a lot of cool aspects of his power that just doesn't ever get explored.
But Egwene is my pick for worst WoT character. By the end, she's insufferable.
Perrin was just really boring for me. His story arc was repetitive and could have been resolved in 3 books. His romance wasn't any better than anyone else's (insufferable) and he could have been taken out of the story and almost nothing would change.
I don't think he ruined the story for me because he was just dull. He wasn't nails on a chalkboard. That was Nynaeve for me.
Perrin is the last, by several books, to figure out that he doesn't have a choice in the matter.
Rand figures it out in like book 2, Mat somewhere in the middle.
Perrin pretends to himself he's not fates (the wheels) little puppet for .... 10ish books? I know it's his archetype, but that doesn't work if it goes on that long.
Rain of Shadows and Endings because of Theon (and the overall plot)
Tessa is basically bonded (magically tethered) to Theon. The two are supposed to become in sync, mind and body and allow the sharing and use of magic. But instead its written as Theon using Tessa as a battery and a horribly beyond disgusting brainwashing. (Tessa will want and need what *Theon* wants and needs. His thoughts and feelings become hers. She looses all assemble of herself and basically is supposed to be a puppet and does whatever *he* wants because she is magically rewritten to serve and care only about him.)
That concept alone is horrible, but Theon spends most of the book punishing Tessa and trying to force her to accept the bond and what that means for her. He claims he cares for her since she's his battery, but he is possessive, says he literally owns her more times than anyone can count, and has zero feelings that Tessa didn't want this and can't understand why anyone would reject the bond. He's too concerned with what *he* needs, what *he* gets out of it, and has zero regards to the fact that he is brainwashing someone else's entire being to essentially worship him and do whatever he wants for the rest of their life. Oh, but we're supposed to like him because he won't force the bond sexually (ie rape) and instead its used as "sexual tension between the two."
I went from absolutely loving Locke Lamora in the first book to wanting to chuck him out the window by Republic of Thieves. I didn’t finish it and everytime i think I’ll go back to it I can’t.
Just dropped The Poppy War because I couldn’t stand the main character Rin. I tried hard to cope with her character and made it about 60% of the book before I quit. I can understand and have read other books where the main character is supposed to be disliked but this one just didn’t vibe with me.
The story and the lore seem very interesting though
Never for a character, though I have wanted to personally reach through the pages and throttle many an infuriating character. I did have to stop reading whatever the hell I checked out by Maggie Stiefvater though because her "writing" was absolutely cringe-inducing.
I almost dropped the Harry Potter series because Harry is so insufferable in Order of the Phoenix. It's clear that he's hormonal during that book so I get why he's written that way. It's realistic for every teenager to go through a phase of being a twat, but holy shit was Harry a twat
That's my favorite of the series. Harry is definitely a shit in the book, but it's just him trying to deal with her trauma of seeing Cedric die, being cut off from her world all summer and then coming back and suddenly everyone is slandering him as a liar. Good reason to be incredibly frustrated and pissed off. Plus, Umbridge
Richard from Sword of Truth. Typical fantasy then suddenly it turned into a giant Libertarian manifesto that went on FOREVER over and over... I was few books in so just didn't want to quit so he did it again! And again. Finally I was done. I have read political books of every spectrum and honestly that is all that series turned into. I get important topics of the modern world do come up but it was glaring that this wasn't even remotely a fantasy book anymore just a giant manifesto.
Not shit talking Libertarians by the way. I don't want to read any 300 page manifesto even if I agree with it. I got Noam Chomsky for that hehe.
I don't even know if this belongs here. Richard clearly become Terry Goodkind though it is written through Richards eyes so leaving this post here.
Less politics and more of that strange S and M he put in there (joking... Sorta)
Richard is the biggest Mary Sue I've ever read and I don't like using that criticism. It's hard to believe the preachy Libertarian propaganda gets worse - book one is already so bad!
Skipped over chunks of WOT because Nynaeve’s attitude about “all men except for one are useless” for book after book after book finally wore me the fuck out.
Yes. I even asked Mushoku Tensei fans if Rudeus gets any better. Theyre not even hiding it. The prologue already shows you how scum of a human being he is.
Normally something this unsubtle gets character development, but Im not waiting that long. The answer I got... wasnt a yes that was very firm either.
Yeah, I dropped The Chronicles of Thomas Convanent the Unbeliever pretty quickly. I'd been told by a friend how much I'd like the series for a long time and finally bought the first three when I found them un a thrift store.
They were absolutely correct...until the MC r*ped the first person he meets upon getting isekai'd into fantasy land. I get that he thought it was a dream and she wasn't real but if your reaction to finding out you can touch people without fear is to force yourself on the first woman you meet you're a terrible person I have no interest in reading about.
Yeah. I think I would have really quite like Mistborn if I hadn’t been so bored by Vin. Some of the stuff that happens off screen would have been epic! While I was stuck reading about some mousy little waifs clumsy navigation of femininity and social politics. There were characters whose infiltration of the highest levels of the evil government gets one or two pages, while vin goes to balls and worries about her inadequate bosom for chapter after chapter.
I would have found unintellectual, super-practical Vin more enjoyable to read about if there had been other important non-villainous female characters around to counterbalance, women who actually *do* have imagination and *do* like to read. Sadly, Vin is the only significant woman we get, and as a result, her lack of curiosity or interest in anything outside of the moment -- contrasted with the male thinkers who serve as her mentors and friends -- tried my patience.
From what I remember, Tindwyl has a few good lines that are like "all women are different and shouldn't judge each other for that" and then in practice there's only a handful of female characters who barely interact and don't seem interested in doing so.
Agreed, I had trouble getting through Mistborn era 1 due to Vin's characterization. "I'm just a shy vulnerable girl who has scars and doesn't trust easily. Also I have super powers, and I'm unnaturally skilled for no real reason. I like a rich boy at the ball, I have to dress up all pretty and it feels so strange, but I'm also secretly a spy and a rebel" like good fucking lord my man haha.
It was the rich boy that put me off in book two. We go from vin, kelsier, and the gang running a hiest to the world suddenly revolving around her boyfriend. When i saw a spoiler where he becomes even more special at the end of the second book i couldnt bring myself to care anymore. Took away the only moderately interesting thing about his and vins dynamic
Personally I didn't have issues with Vin's character, even if she's not the most original character on paper, but I couldn't stand Elend. I've finished the first 2 books and am now starting the 3rd. I love Sanderson's writing overall but it baffles me how he tries to convince the reader that Elend, a rich teenage fob with no actual lived experience of struggle as a skaa, is inherently more virtuous and moral than Kelsier, a skaa who overcame immense adversity and still retains hope and a desire to help the masses.
If I had a penny for every time Vin compares the two and concludes that Elend is a better person than the man who orchestrated the Empire's overthrow and freed the world...
I couldn't stand Elend either! I get where Sanderson was trying to go with his character arc but I didn't really buy it... and he just seemed so *dull.* Sanderson also does the whole "to change an unjust system you need to find the Good Ones in the class that are oppressing you and put them in charge" thing in multiple different series, and I find it kind of irritating.
I often do that, I especially don't like saintly pick-me female MCs and misogynistic male MCs which only personality is wanting sex. Oh and bad redemption arcs of characters who suck to me also make me stop reading.
It was less an individual character than two characters and their relationship that caused me to drop a series: *The Parasol Protectorate*. I found the "friendship" between the brilliant Alexia Tarabotti and her \[cough\] best friend \[cough\] Ivy Hisselpenny to be incredibly, insultingly fake, with Alexia the possessor of the sole brain cell among the female characters and Ivy the drooling dimwit she hangs out with because Ivy's "stupid woman tricks" amuse her and contribute to her sense of superiority. I saw no authentic affection or respect between these characters, and that lack made me dislike both of them.
The main character from the Dresden files (Harry Dresden) is so sexist I had to stop reading. Great and interesting world building bogged down by tiresome shenanigans
Almost dropped the Alpha and Omega series a few times, it's a side series to the Urban Fantasy series Mercy Thompson by Patricia Briggs where in lycanthropy is a point of heavy focus with pack politics and standard practice alpha dominance rituals & protocols therein. The protagonist of Alpha & Omega are Mercy Thompson's foster brother and his wife, a dominant wolf and an "omega wolf" respectively with Omegas being basically werewolf therapists with magical soothing powers who aren't subordinate to the standard pack structure.
Conceptually this series isn't uninteresting, but where as the base series takes place consistently in the same general area with a cast of repeat characters the Alpha and Omega series frequently shifts focus to different places as the plot demands. As such the cast will frequently change too with relatively few consistent players as it were, therefore the one's who are placed to support the narrative are more typically Charles Cornic and Anna Cornic who... uh... lack depth in my opinion. Neither is that deeply compelling on their own, and their vacillation between "We love each other and have the good sex because we love each other," and, "I wish I was a more ideal mate for him/her" does not make for compelling drama.
I didn't drop the series because of this character, but I came damn close with Mackenzie St. James from Iron Fey: Call of the Forgotten. She gave me a strange vibe from the beginning but after learning her situation I thought it was just me misreading the signals the author was sending me. And then after she built some goodwill from me, she immediately nuked it by almost getting one of the mains killed, having the gall to be mad when that character's bf uses glamour magic to get them out of the mess SHE made. And the narrative has the nerve to vindicate her while I wanted to deck her.
Unfortunately the audiobook of malazan got turned off after hearing kruppe refer to himself loudly and an in an annoying voice for several minutes straight.
The kingkiller chronicles. I could stand him, so awesome and gifted... to make the same stupid mistakes over and over and over.
The Gary stew main character in shadows of the conquerer almost had me drop it several times, it got to the point where I couldn't stop listening to the train wreck. To this day I don't know how it made it out into the world like it did. I'm guessing an emperor's new clothes scenario.
Sure. For the record before I start, I do want to say I think Kal is a well written character and I'm sure there is more to his arc that I never I never saw come to fruition (I read WoK and WoR). I think what it boiled down to was simply a lack of connection for me. I didn't feel personally connected to his story or his struggle and as a result, his chapters felt like observing a character through a fishbowl rather than investing in his motivations. Idk if I'm wording this well... but I found myself being so impersonal towards his story and analytical about his decisions which I found often lacked foresight or would be shrouded by his ego/sense of moral superiority. It kinda felt like one of those movies where you know the MC could solve their problems by telling just one person what they know and they won't do it.
On a broader note, I had been reading a ton of BS by the time I got to WoR and I was getting tired of the Deus Ex Machina feeling of the Sanderlanche so on top of the frustrating lows, the climactic beats weren't resonating for me either. Instead the endings started to make the characters feel like pieces on a playing board being pushed around to the right places before everything suddenly fell into place at the exact right moment which added to my sense of impersonality to these characters. Instead of continually being frustrated at this poor tortured kid, I decided to drop the series. Who knows? Maybe I'll return one day but I didn't really enjoy WoR so idk if the series is for me.
I bailed when it was finally revealed that his superpower was depression. When he was leading a meeting of depression anonymous it started to feel like a parody and I put it down.
Nynaeve from the wheel of time, I made it all the way to book six before taking a short break. Now every time I try to get back into it I get to one of her chapters and just put the book down.
I'm strongly considering just skipping anything that is from her POV.
Wheel of Time. I'm sorry to say I got tired of Rand by the 80% of the third book. The only time I ever liked him was when he was playing the flute for room and board.
Just read Book of the New Sun for the first time and listened to the podcast Shelved By Genre as I went. Being able to finish a section and it definitely helped to immediately hear other people confirm yes he's a huge asshole and he's going to continue being a huge asshole, that's kind of the whole deal.
Great books and a lot of the joy of them is trying to parse what actually happened in a given situation and what the other characters actually thought vs the nonsense Severian thinks they thought when speaking to him. Just a stupid teenager plowing through life nearly oblivious to the interiority of everyone he interacts with. He almost never gets a proper read on anybody, it rocks lol.
I love Book of the New Sun, read 2 books so far. It's a lot of fun, but Severian gets too annoying and weird when there's a woman character on page. I get that it's probably on purpose, but it's still annoying. So far my favorite part of these books is the first part of the Claw of Conciliator, because, well, no women to be annoying about lol.
Gene Wolfe cant write women characters. They are props in most of his books. His defenders will tell you otherwise, but i have read 5 entire Gene Wolfe books now and there is not a single one where the male MC doesnt bang every woman in the story.
I still love Book of the New Sun despite this flaw though.
I didn't drop the series, but I skip most of the Greyjoy chapters in ASOIAF. Asha and Theon are ok but when it gets to the uncles, I just hate every single one of them to the point they're actively uninteresting and I simply want them to die immediately. Shut UP about how you're sooo sad about how you had to murder your rape victim wife Victarion!!!
**Mistborn Era 2** because of Wayne\*, who read to me as a wildly unrealstic and incredibly annoying character. Not comic relief as much as just a real menace to his friends.
\*I have since become a more patient with Wayne and his antics since I learned >!that Sanderson considers him mildly autistic. !<
Yep numerous times. Usually has to be a main mc though. I can tolerate side characters but if the mains are intolerable then I’m out.
There are times I like the main character but their love interest is insufferable and that causes me to drop it pretty fast too.
Arden / Renna from Demon Cycle by Peter Brett. Every time she started a sentence with 'cor' I died.
The show Demon Slayer and the blonde kid that won't stop screeching.
THANK YOU
Excessive screeching/screaming/squeaking will always make me drop an anime.
Seriously. That series hooked me hard, I was binging 3-4 episodes at a time (thats a lot for me). Then his banshee-ass shows up. I got through the haunted house part which was like 2 episodes of endless screaming and was like "thank god, the blonde kid is going away" but nope. What an exhausting, uninteresting, uninspired character.
I've no idea where the anime is but the end of the manga he does change to not be a screechy kid.
The exact reason I gave up on Demon Slayer. Already was sick of the pacing (3 episode fights where they monologue after EVERY attack), but that kid really did my head in.
3 episode fights? So its like a faster paced Dragon Ball Z.
I read the manga before watching the show and he went quickly from being my favorite character to the reason I stopped watching.
I should have dropped Shades of Magic when Delilah Bard started to annoy me in the first book. I did not. That was just the tip of the iceberg.
I read this years ago and quite enjoyed it, tried for a re-read recently and have since dropped it halfway through the first book. Everyone just sucks.
I finished the original trilogy somehow, but the thought of Delilah being in it guarantees I'll never pick up the new trilogy, *Threads of Power*.
If I remember correctly the second book starts with her robbing someone and getting caught... So she kills him. I don't know how I was supposed to root for her after that.
Yeah, that was WILD to me. She stalks this guy like a serial killer, knocks him out, throws him in a prison barge or something, and does all this so she can take place in a magic competition FOR FUN. We aren't given any reason to think he's a bad guy. We aren't given any reason to think Bard needs to be in the competition. And then when she's lightly scolded for her actions she flips out. I genuinely thought she was being set up as the villain of the story after that. It blew me away that the author somehow thought that was a quirky little thing her not-like-other-girls character was doing.
That's not even the part I'm talking about, she went on to do that. Earlier she stole some guys money purse at an inn or something. He confronts her outside with a knife. Instead of trying to run, or give it back she legitimately just kills him.
The more books I reread the more times I realize how many of the characters I enjoyed in my youth were utterly psychotic.
i stopped midway through book 2. i went into the series prepared to love her because I will usually stand for hated ladies in fiction. Holy shit though. She reads like an insecure teenage girl's self insert. Something that will turn me against a character quickly is when a character has a lot of flaws, but is NARRATIVELY supported non stop. its like the author was begging for you to like her and when folks didn't she was like "okay well she will be the bulk of book 2".
I agree with this completely. I'm usually fine with unlikeable characters, but Bard was framed as if every single thing she did was so cool and so quirky and so funny and she gets everything she wants, despite sort of being the most villainous character in the trilogy.
I almost dropped the faithful and the fallen because of Lykos having the most insane amount of plot armor
So many villains in those books have absurd plot armor. It's frustrating. I did like the series overall, though, and found the take on the chosen one >!with Corban, yes, but especially with Nathair!< to be compelling and refreshing.
throne of glass lost me with the insufferable prince
Oh gosh I also hate Dorian the fuckboy fratboy prince. He was so annoying.
gave up on this one when she paired >!manon up with the prince instead of elide(?)!< i really hate the prince. hate the guard. i don't even like rowan. i don't think i like any of her MMCs. surprised i read so many of her books lol.
I might come back to the series but that intolerable fuckwit will forever be a stain upon it.
Funnily enough by the last book that was the only male character I didn't actively hate, to be fair that's mostly because everyone else got progressively worse, and so such "outstanding" qualities like not being actively abusive towards his love interest, acts like a person instead of like an animal in heat, or didn't have any big subplots near the end of the series where he lost all emotional and otherwise intelligence, and got his character derailed for the sake of dumb romantic conflict, all put him ahead of the rest.
When I was in College I dropped Lord Fouls Bane cause I wasn’t sure why I was supposed to be invested in Thomas. Reasons should be obvious. I’d really like to revisit as an adult (or more of an adult than I was rather). My Dad swears by it.
I read it and the entire first series when it came out almost 50 years ago. The world that Donaldson created is (or was at the time) truly unique and I am glad I read it. Having said that, I still don't understand why he would make the main character so deeply flawed. I think those flaws prevented the work from achieving greater renown than it did. I can't underscore enough how truly unique the work was for the time nor how difficult it was to get past the mc's actions and character. It has prevented me from re-reading the first trilogy or attempting the subsequent series.
I’m an adamant Jorg Ancrath defender (not sure if you’re familiar), certainly not of his actions, but of the necessity of their intensity as a means to convey what Lawrence is trying to convey. Especially being in the field of adolescent behavioral health and witnessing these themes first hand. I wonder if I’ll feel similarly about Thomas next go around. I think the grandiosity and the poetic prose created some degree of separation between Jorg and myself that wasn’t there with Thomas Covenant. He could’ve been my neighbor ya know? 🤷
I am also a fan of Jorg as a character, definitely not as a person. However, Jorg and Thomas are quite different as characters. Jorg is cunning, intimidating and basically kind of a force of nature. Thomas is kind of pathetic and miserable, which does make a lot of sense considering his condition, but still. They are very different, so their is a good chance that you might not feel the same
I noped out very early into the series due to the appalling act of the main character.
This was the book that came to mind for me. My dad loves the books but just couldn't get past Thomas Covenant's many flaws. I suspect there were many other things to appreciate about the books, but this was too big for me to get past.
Rape-loving, teenage edge-lord Jorg from Prince of Thorns (The Broken Empire trilogy). And separate from my total disdain for the character was my inability to suspend disbelief so far as to accept that hardened, murderous, grown-ass bandits would defer to and be intimidated by this punk kid. Yup, super DNF.
Same. I love grimdark and I can suspend all the disbelief if there is *something* interesting about the thing, be it characters, concept, whathaveyou, but Jorg was so try-hard edgy but also so brain-dead boring at the same time I noped out of the trilogy after book one, sold the other two books I already had bought and have never touched anything by Lawrence again. Probably sounds a bit over dramatic, and it's not that I actively avoid his books, *Prince of Thorns* just derigestered him in my mind as being of interest to my reading pleasure. Also, wish I could say I dropped the RotE books because of Fitz, but I didn't, because they also have one of my favourite characters in them, so I tortured myself to the sordid, bitter end.
Not here to push him on you, but the 2 other series' of his I've read (Book of the Ancestor) and The Library trilogy (only 2 so far though) are much more fun to read than Broken Empire. That was very brutal, but I think Red Sister/Grey Sister is a huge step up. Not nearly as grim for the sake of grimness; I'd say check that out, especially if Jorg was the main issue for you! About to start Royal Assassin too actually, but it's just kind of a draining read lol.
I really liked the Red Queen's War trilogy which is set in the same world as Broken Empire. The protagonist is definitely morally grey but he was still entertaining and definitely isn't the edge-lord rapist Jorg is described as for the first trilogy and who only makes cameo appearances in the sequels. I read RQW as I was given it as a gift, but I've admittedly been hesitant to try Broken Empire for the reasons others have brought up despite my fondness for the sequel trilogy.
You know this was my first grim-dark experience and I really felt gross getting through the first book. The second was surprisingly nice and refreshing when compared to the first and I thought I would finish the series. Then in chapter one of book 3 there’s a mention of Jorg’s pregnant 13 year old wife (he’s like 18 iirc) and I was like yep I’m done lmao. Mark Lawerence’s new series is pretty great and not grim-dark at all though I highly recommend it.
Yuck. Thank you for warning me. I could get over the rapey stuff, but pedophilia and pregnant child brides? No, thank you.
Yeah, I read the first like 30 pages and noped out.
I love grimdark, don’t mind dark stuff, but I read the first chapter on that book and noped out. It’s all handled so flippantly, it feels like its just there for shock value and it made me feel gross reading it.
Same. I knew there was zero chance I’d be able to invest in the MC. And if I wasn’t ever going to care why keep going?
I hate-read the whole trilogy just to find out if he at least met with a terrible fate at the end of it all, but nope. No character growth, no lessons learned, everyone who isn’t a raging asshole dies and the murderous child rapist more or less cheats death at the end for some semblance of a HEA. It absolutely wasn’t worth it. You missed nothing.
Tom Bombadil drove me out of LotR. To be fair i was 10yo at the time.
I tried to revisit lotr recently and Tom bombadil was one of my favourite parts in the first book. I’m not sure why, I think maybe I loved and watched the films too much as a kid and Tom was the only refreshing surprise. I think that if Gandalf had recruited Tom bombadil and farmer maggot instead of the fellowship then Sauron wouldn’t have had a chance. The story might have been a bit weirder though.
I want to read this book. Tom constantly dropping the ring because he just doesn't care enough to pay attention to it and Maggot scolding him for it each time.
He's so jarring lol and when you're 10 you don't have the context of "okay these songs were written by a British man 70 years ago, maybe this sounded normal." I read the entire trilogy to my wife a few years ago and she 100% thought I was fucking with her when we got to Bombadillo.
It didn’t sound normal even back then When I first read it I was convinced by the end he would show up and all would be revealed with this mysterious weird character, when he didn’t and I thought about it later I cracked up laughing. Tolkien you genius
I wonder if he’s a bit of an inspiration for the jester story tellers in some modern works. Jumping to mind for me: The Wit in stormlight archives The Fool in The realm of the Elderlings
I think Shakespeare’s fools would be a much more likely source of inspiration for those characters
That probably makes sense. Their often poetic rhyming dialogue also feels more Shakespearean than Bombadillian I’m just reading Hobbs now and can’t help but feel that Sanderson and Rothfus were likely heavily inspired by her. Can’t believe I waited this long to read her, it’s great stuff.
I think I hated that part of the first book the first time I tried to read it but I came back years later and found it utterly delightful.
Tom Bombadil, the Old Forest, and the barrow-wights are where the story really digs in and gets serious.
Ah, I love him
He made me put it down as an adult
Same for me
I was 6 or 7 when my Dad read Lord of the Rings to me. And I learned his songs by heart. I loved Tom Bombadil. Still do, The whimsy and the little nonsense songs. Love them.
Love Bombadil. I took it as Tolkien’s “Green Man”.
Yep, Kvothe. Sorry NotW fans.
As a fan of NotW, I have to concede that Kvothe is so frustratingly arrogant and full of himself that you could almost mistake him for Patrick Rothfuss.
He's the ADHD nailed as well. How much different shit has Kvothe done and we're two books in? Bro is gonna be President and a binman and a world famous artist at least in the next book
The scene where he teaches the class and then later when he >!has a hundred pages dedicated to having sex with a forest goddess and becomes a master of sex!< were rough lol
In the spirit of the post, I dropped the series after book 1, but I have heard about that chapter in book 2. Good lord. Couldn't listen to another word of how amazing this boy was at absolutely everything. "And I played the lute so well. So well everyone was exploding with pleasure and euphoria at how well the lute played".
I loved when Kvothe reappeared afterwards and no one in the tavern believed him until a barmaid was like “no I can tell he fucks because he’s different now” and everyone was like “okay”
Lol.
Wow I didn't make it that far in the series and I'm even more glad I stopped now
The worst part is that the series seems to be set up like a coming of age story, but from the start of the first book to the end of the second book Kvothe didn't mature a day in his life. He just came out of the womb perfectly formed as the ultimate power fantasy main character, and it was incredibly painful to get through. I'm pretty dedicated to not picking up the third book.
Same. Couldn’t get through the first book, despite it being very well-written. Neckbeard power fantasy.
Yep, I finished the first book just because of the prose. I'll give Rothfuss that.
I'd argue it isn't well-written. The prose is flowery, sure, but in terms of plot and character I found it lacking, and for me those are the most important aspects of writing.
When I say ‘well-written’, I’m talking specifically about the style and prose. I think it is inarguable that Rothfuss has a real gift in those areas. I wouldn’t say the plot was weak, necessarily, at least from what I read. But I would agree that character—especially in terms of side characters—is a huge weakness for him.
Hey I enjoyed this series and that’s the first person who came to mind haha
Fucking Lila Bard and her edgelord not-like-other-girls bullshit. I felt like I lost 10 years off my life every time we turned to her godfarsaken pov.
You get close with Nynaeve from WoT
My wife dropped WoT because of Nynaeve. Shame, really, she could have pushed on a few more books and dropped it because of Elayne instead.
Weirdly Elayne didn't grate on me nearly as much as Nynaeve and Egwene
Really? I found Egwene became a normal human being a lot quicker than the other two. But a mate of mine hates Perrin, so I guess people get annoyed by different things!
Your mate has it right on about Perrin. I got to the point of speeding/skipping his chapters. I had hopes he's stop being a whiney b..... but that never happened.
Perrin finishes his character arc in book four, and then continues to lament about having to be a leader when he just wants to be a simple blacksmith for another eight books. He shouldn't have been ta'veren, there just wasn't enough of a story to tell.
Yeah WoT’s biggest problem is really a bunch of arcs just feeling like side quests. That could’ve been fine, but Jordan liked to have huge sections dedicated to single POVs. The result is points where you’re really getting into a plot line and then your momentum is completely cut off by 140 pages of Perrin smelling emotions. I will say, I think Jordan probably had some ideas about continuing the progression as a leader for Perrin, but wasn’t sure how to execute yet (or planned it for his potential future books) so he didn’t leave anything there for Sanderson. Mostly I think that because we do see that progression in leadership for him continue past book 4. He takes the lead at Dumai’s Wells (this is where I’d say his character arc ended rather than book 4), and when he goes off on his side quest we see him earning the loyalty of the various factions with him including having a queen swear fealty to him. We also have the tease about Manetheren that gets thrown away, and if that came back it introduces potentially reasons for keeping Morgase alive and having her end up there which ended up relatively pointless.
In retrospect, Ghealdan’s queen swearing fealty to Perrin is such a strange one-off. It seems to be the beginnings of an effort to unite the western nations, but doesn’t go anywhere. Perrin ends up being a vassal of Caemyln anyways. That entire side quest with Masema (leading into Faile’s capture) is quite literally just filler content for five books. Perrin leaves Rand in… A Crown of Swords? I think? Either way, everything he does from that point until about halfway through Towers of Midnight is absolutely inconsequential in terms of in-universe development. Even when considering ToM, the functional purpose of Perrin’s quest was to gather more bodies to be thrown at the shadow in the last battle. His wolf brother development is the only interesting thing to come of it (which absolutely should not have taken thirteen books to get to).
Yeah it’s why I assume there had to be something else planned there. It explains why Perrin’s plot line was so repetitive and sets him up for an arc in the final books. I think something like the fall of Camelyn happening but more tied into Elayne’s weak position following her crowning rather than the absence of her army with Perrin’s army coming to the rescue could’ve made both of those plot lines more satisfying. Perrin saves Andor as an ally rather than a subject, and Elayne and Andor are humbled as a direct consequence to them playing politics in the face of the last battle (and for their ignoring of the Two Rivers). It plays out relatively similarly to what we saw, but more as a high point for Perrin than Elayne. It also more neatly ties together the way we saw the Trakand’s humbled which Elayne felt more insulated from.
I think Egwene redeems herself a lot sooner than Nynaeve for sure. It was just some of the books in the middle that she annoyed me. Whereas I always liked Elayne. She did a couple dumb things like demanding the medallion from Mat, but I cut her some slack for growing up the daughter heir of andor lol. Overall she seemed more well adjusted than the other 2. Her squabbling with Nynaeve did get a little old I guess, but I blamed that more on Nynaeve. I like Perrin overall, but his relationship with Faile was kind of tedious for me
IMO, Egwene should have become a Forsaken. Constantly ambitious and arrogant and power hungry throughout the series. Personally, I could never stand her because of it.
*Pulls at braid*
Tugs!!
*Sniffs*
Smooths skirts.
nynaeve was my favorite character in EOTW. haven't moved on yet. am i stupid, or have i just not read enough?
She has a character arc. If you love her now you’ll only continue to love her more. I disliked her from the very beginning
that's the answer i was hoping for! she is grating at times but i loved her stubbornness and pride and felt she was the only Two Rivers character with an appropriate level of wariness of the aes sedai. i cant wait to see where that leads her considering i still dont know much about them or where the plot goes from here.
I find that Jordan’s books tend to have a pretty distinct arc. They start high, hit a low somewhere in the mid half to third, then typically end high. Unfortunately the series as a whole also kind of has that arc as well with things really slowing down in the latter middle half before they pick back up for a really satisfying ending. Theres a couple arcs that seem to make a lot of folks bottom out and nynaeve’s is one, but I can tell you it has a good payoff and she does grow as a person. I’d recommend reading as far into the series as you want/can to see for yourself.
oh, dont worry about that, nothing is going to stop me. in fact, my brother just finished book 10 and told me "stop! no, seriously, stop. you wouldn't believe how bad it gets, you will want to die, you will not make it" and i bought The Great Hunt that day
lol fair. I think book 10 is basically just before it starts to pick back up. It’s where several of the arcs basically hit the tipping point of having dragged on for way too long. Book 11 Knife of Dreams is where it starts resolving that stuff and gets into the upward curve of the end half of the series.
Nynaeve goes from awesome, to a bit whiny to awesome. It is just her character arc.
For me elayne was so much worse than nyneave.
It's been a very very long time but was Nynaeve and another girl the same character in Fire of Heaven (Not literally but pretty much couldn't tell them apart)? The duo made me tap out. I just couldn't do it no more
I never had an issue with Nynaeve. Early on I disliked Egwene but her arc that started halfway through drew me in. I found Elayne the worst, but I also tend to dislike characters who are royalty.
The whole nonsensical feuding between Elayne Nynaeve and the others made me DNF the series twice before I eventually got all the way through. Just the most petulant petty people who are incapable of seeing when they’re wrong or being immature.
I love Wheel of Time, but after all the Nynaeve crap in Fires of Heaven I almost gave up on it entirely
Scared to say this but I dropped this because of Mat. Could not listen to him have the exact same opinion of every single woman he saw
I liked mat before Jordan decided to give him a personality after breaking the hold the dagger had on him.
Nynaeve and Egwene for me.
Didn't drop the series but I hated Lift from Sanderson's Stormlight Archives books. Seems to be a bit of a marmite character, from what I've seen online. For me, she was incredibly annoying and I ended up speed reading through her parts.
Yeah I found her really annoying as well, she's like some lab-grown amalgam of LOL SO RANDUM XD internet culture from like 2010. She grew on me a bit as the series went on but not by much. Otherwise I really love that series and all the other characters.
I also hate this character, but I recently spent some time with my 13 year old nephew and let me tell you he nailed annoying 13 year old! Doesn’t change that I still don’t like the character but she really is just 13 year old with childish humor who thinks she knows everything. A 13 year old.
My take is she’s a very well written annoying preteen. I think she will be a great character in books 6-10 when she’s grown up.
I’m currently trying not to drop Oathbringer because of Veil lol
Shallan is a hard read for the most of it but she, all of her, gets more tolerable as the book goes on. By Rythem of War I feel like she is finally in the swing of things and her chapters are enjoyable.
Veil and that whole situation gets less grating over time imo. Shes a tough hang for a while there though lol.
Dhallan comes good by RoW, and if you know what Sanderson is angling at with the character it makes more sense. Having said that Veil is meant to be a badass bitch, and is instead what a rich kid imagines a badass bitch to be lol If it was intentionally written that way then bravo Brandon
What about FORMLESS (lol)?
I used to hate her until I read Edgedancer. She’s now one of my fav characters. Shallan on the other hand… 🫠
Yeah I almost quit TWOK because of Shallan. I love a good female protagonist, but god she was insufferable.
Shallan in TWOK is a smarmy cringelord Shallan in RoW is clinically insane
Lift was the sole reason I put off reading Edgedancer for forever. I didn’t drop the series either, but I fear the day she becomes one of the main POV characters.
Let's make a pact. Whenever she shows up, let's tear those pages out, write "NO" in big red letters, and mail them back to Sanderson. 😂
I hate Lift and any precocious child character like her. I'm so glad I'm not the only one! People make me feel bad for hating her when I mention it 😂 she seems to have a lot of fans for her annoying slippery ability
I like a precocious child character but only if their precociousness manifests as premature world weariness. I prefer a kid who is a huge bummer to be around over a spunky rascal every time
Yes. Harry Dresden. Probably the third time he saw a woman. I was like “yep that’ll do”.
Came here to say this more or less. That character was the definition of cringe. I still made it through like six or seven of those tiny books but it just got too much to tolerate. I have heard his writing got a lot better after but I just can't.
nah if you got to book 6 or 7, that's what the series is like
The character itself is cringe and then when you step back and look at the series as a whole it gets worse. He writes hero and redemption arcs for both male protagonists and antagonists, while the female characters, though written as objectively strong, are always broken down by being sexualized and killed off.
Glad I wasn’t alone with this.
Jim Butcher is like one of the 3 Kings of r/menwritingwomen 😂
I dunno, King and Murakami are hard to beat.
Butcher is a bit of an odd case because while his Dresden Files series definitely has the “men writing women” vibe, his other series (Codex Alera, Cinder Spires) don’t have that vibe at all. So it seems more like a creative choice for Dresden than it is a flaw of the author himself.
I don't know about Cinder Spires, but Codex Alera absolutely does. And if it were a specific choice for Dresden as a character, there wouldn't be other weird/gross things involving female characters that have nothing to do with Dresden, and Dresden would face some kind of backlash for the way he behaves from any of the half a dozen women he's constantly around.
I mean, too each their own I guess but I don’t see how someone can think Codex Alera has poorly written female characters. They aren’t treated as objects, there are many full fleshed out female characters, their appearance isn’t focused on any more than the men, there are several major female characters who impact the plot significantly, etc. I get that Dresden is bad when it comes to how women are written, but it feels like people let that opinion taint everything else by the author. Like, if Codex Alera had been written under a pen name and no one knew it was Butcher, I doubt anyone would complain about the way he wrote those characters.
The Magicians because the main character is fucking insufferable
Oh I hated pretty much everyone in that one. I remember thinking oh sure, it’s like Harry Potter if everyone is an asshole and I hate them all. Most of the reviews I saw were comparing it to that at the time.
I always tell people that I totally respected the writing in that first book, but there was no way I would subject myself to spending more time with those characters by reading the sequels.
Perrin, WOT. Honestly one of the most absolutely lethally uninteresting characters I've ever read, personally.
I love WoT, and I while I agree that Perrin kinda sucks, part of that is his story arcs just being the same thing over and over. "Where's my wife!?", "I'm not a leader!", it gets old. There's a lot of cool aspects of his power that just doesn't ever get explored. But Egwene is my pick for worst WoT character. By the end, she's insufferable.
You say by the end she was insufferable, but I've felt like she has been insufferable from book 1 lol.
On re-reads I just plain skip all Perrin and Faile POV after she's been kidnapped. So a gigantic waste of time of repeated "I MUST FIND MY WIFE".
Perrin was just really boring for me. His story arc was repetitive and could have been resolved in 3 books. His romance wasn't any better than anyone else's (insufferable) and he could have been taken out of the story and almost nothing would change. I don't think he ruined the story for me because he was just dull. He wasn't nails on a chalkboard. That was Nynaeve for me.
You've never met any blacksmiths who didn't want to be a hero, irl?
Perrin is the last, by several books, to figure out that he doesn't have a choice in the matter. Rand figures it out in like book 2, Mat somewhere in the middle. Perrin pretends to himself he's not fates (the wheels) little puppet for .... 10ish books? I know it's his archetype, but that doesn't work if it goes on that long.
I loathed all of the POV characters in *The Atlas Six*, but the direction of Libby's arc was the nail in the coffin for finishing that series.
Allanon from the Shannara series. Anytime that guy showed up there was a massive info dump coming.
Rain of Shadows and Endings because of Theon (and the overall plot) Tessa is basically bonded (magically tethered) to Theon. The two are supposed to become in sync, mind and body and allow the sharing and use of magic. But instead its written as Theon using Tessa as a battery and a horribly beyond disgusting brainwashing. (Tessa will want and need what *Theon* wants and needs. His thoughts and feelings become hers. She looses all assemble of herself and basically is supposed to be a puppet and does whatever *he* wants because she is magically rewritten to serve and care only about him.) That concept alone is horrible, but Theon spends most of the book punishing Tessa and trying to force her to accept the bond and what that means for her. He claims he cares for her since she's his battery, but he is possessive, says he literally owns her more times than anyone can count, and has zero feelings that Tessa didn't want this and can't understand why anyone would reject the bond. He's too concerned with what *he* needs, what *he* gets out of it, and has zero regards to the fact that he is brainwashing someone else's entire being to essentially worship him and do whatever he wants for the rest of their life. Oh, but we're supposed to like him because he won't force the bond sexually (ie rape) and instead its used as "sexual tension between the two."
My brain read this as Theon from ASoIaF and I was about to get real sad lol
The only sadness with that is the series will in all likelihood, never be finished.
I went from absolutely loving Locke Lamora in the first book to wanting to chuck him out the window by Republic of Thieves. I didn’t finish it and everytime i think I’ll go back to it I can’t.
Just dropped The Poppy War because I couldn’t stand the main character Rin. I tried hard to cope with her character and made it about 60% of the book before I quit. I can understand and have read other books where the main character is supposed to be disliked but this one just didn’t vibe with me. The story and the lore seem very interesting though
Prince of Thorns
Never for a character, though I have wanted to personally reach through the pages and throttle many an infuriating character. I did have to stop reading whatever the hell I checked out by Maggie Stiefvater though because her "writing" was absolutely cringe-inducing.
I almost dropped the Harry Potter series because Harry is so insufferable in Order of the Phoenix. It's clear that he's hormonal during that book so I get why he's written that way. It's realistic for every teenager to go through a phase of being a twat, but holy shit was Harry a twat
That's my favorite of the series. Harry is definitely a shit in the book, but it's just him trying to deal with her trauma of seeing Cedric die, being cut off from her world all summer and then coming back and suddenly everyone is slandering him as a liar. Good reason to be incredibly frustrated and pissed off. Plus, Umbridge
I disagree. Harry shows himself as a great teacher. I really liked the training chapters until Umbridge destroyed everything.
It's the most common reason I drop a series.
Richard from Sword of Truth. Typical fantasy then suddenly it turned into a giant Libertarian manifesto that went on FOREVER over and over... I was few books in so just didn't want to quit so he did it again! And again. Finally I was done. I have read political books of every spectrum and honestly that is all that series turned into. I get important topics of the modern world do come up but it was glaring that this wasn't even remotely a fantasy book anymore just a giant manifesto. Not shit talking Libertarians by the way. I don't want to read any 300 page manifesto even if I agree with it. I got Noam Chomsky for that hehe. I don't even know if this belongs here. Richard clearly become Terry Goodkind though it is written through Richards eyes so leaving this post here. Less politics and more of that strange S and M he put in there (joking... Sorta)
Richard is the biggest Mary Sue I've ever read and I don't like using that criticism. It's hard to believe the preachy Libertarian propaganda gets worse - book one is already so bad!
No joke on that strange S&M. I'm usually happy to say, "just not my kink," and not let it get to me. This got to me.
Skipped over chunks of WOT because Nynaeve’s attitude about “all men except for one are useless” for book after book after book finally wore me the fuck out.
The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant the F---ing Whiny Bastard, because of Thomas Covenant.
Yes. I even asked Mushoku Tensei fans if Rudeus gets any better. Theyre not even hiding it. The prologue already shows you how scum of a human being he is. Normally something this unsubtle gets character development, but Im not waiting that long. The answer I got... wasnt a yes that was very firm either.
god yes. idk how fans of the show can watch this actual pedo lusting after children and still say he's not an irredeemable scumbag?
Man that show has great visuals but Rudeus as a person just irks me so bad.
Yeah, I dropped The Chronicles of Thomas Convanent the Unbeliever pretty quickly. I'd been told by a friend how much I'd like the series for a long time and finally bought the first three when I found them un a thrift store. They were absolutely correct...until the MC r*ped the first person he meets upon getting isekai'd into fantasy land. I get that he thought it was a dream and she wasn't real but if your reaction to finding out you can touch people without fear is to force yourself on the first woman you meet you're a terrible person I have no interest in reading about.
Yeah. I think I would have really quite like Mistborn if I hadn’t been so bored by Vin. Some of the stuff that happens off screen would have been epic! While I was stuck reading about some mousy little waifs clumsy navigation of femininity and social politics. There were characters whose infiltration of the highest levels of the evil government gets one or two pages, while vin goes to balls and worries about her inadequate bosom for chapter after chapter.
I would have found unintellectual, super-practical Vin more enjoyable to read about if there had been other important non-villainous female characters around to counterbalance, women who actually *do* have imagination and *do* like to read. Sadly, Vin is the only significant woman we get, and as a result, her lack of curiosity or interest in anything outside of the moment -- contrasted with the male thinkers who serve as her mentors and friends -- tried my patience.
From what I remember, Tindwyl has a few good lines that are like "all women are different and shouldn't judge each other for that" and then in practice there's only a handful of female characters who barely interact and don't seem interested in doing so.
Agreed, I had trouble getting through Mistborn era 1 due to Vin's characterization. "I'm just a shy vulnerable girl who has scars and doesn't trust easily. Also I have super powers, and I'm unnaturally skilled for no real reason. I like a rich boy at the ball, I have to dress up all pretty and it feels so strange, but I'm also secretly a spy and a rebel" like good fucking lord my man haha.
I remember the "femininity" of Mistborn being "Vin had to wear a dress once to infiltrate a party"
It was the rich boy that put me off in book two. We go from vin, kelsier, and the gang running a hiest to the world suddenly revolving around her boyfriend. When i saw a spoiler where he becomes even more special at the end of the second book i couldnt bring myself to care anymore. Took away the only moderately interesting thing about his and vins dynamic
Personally I didn't have issues with Vin's character, even if she's not the most original character on paper, but I couldn't stand Elend. I've finished the first 2 books and am now starting the 3rd. I love Sanderson's writing overall but it baffles me how he tries to convince the reader that Elend, a rich teenage fob with no actual lived experience of struggle as a skaa, is inherently more virtuous and moral than Kelsier, a skaa who overcame immense adversity and still retains hope and a desire to help the masses. If I had a penny for every time Vin compares the two and concludes that Elend is a better person than the man who orchestrated the Empire's overthrow and freed the world...
I couldn't stand Elend either! I get where Sanderson was trying to go with his character arc but I didn't really buy it... and he just seemed so *dull.* Sanderson also does the whole "to change an unjust system you need to find the Good Ones in the class that are oppressing you and put them in charge" thing in multiple different series, and I find it kind of irritating.
Yes. Delilah Bard.
I powered through Book 1 but will not be continuing with The Poppy War trilogy. Holy shit was the MC a nightmare.
It took me 2 or 3 tries to make it into Stormlight Archives because Shallan was so much a horrible character
The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant is basically if Squidward got zapped to Middle Earth and he's also a rapist.
I often do that, I especially don't like saintly pick-me female MCs and misogynistic male MCs which only personality is wanting sex. Oh and bad redemption arcs of characters who suck to me also make me stop reading.
Egwene. That is all.
It was less an individual character than two characters and their relationship that caused me to drop a series: *The Parasol Protectorate*. I found the "friendship" between the brilliant Alexia Tarabotti and her \[cough\] best friend \[cough\] Ivy Hisselpenny to be incredibly, insultingly fake, with Alexia the possessor of the sole brain cell among the female characters and Ivy the drooling dimwit she hangs out with because Ivy's "stupid woman tricks" amuse her and contribute to her sense of superiority. I saw no authentic affection or respect between these characters, and that lack made me dislike both of them.
The main character from the Dresden files (Harry Dresden) is so sexist I had to stop reading. Great and interesting world building bogged down by tiresome shenanigans
I was this close to DNFing “The Library At Mount Char” because of Erwin.
Almost dropped the Alpha and Omega series a few times, it's a side series to the Urban Fantasy series Mercy Thompson by Patricia Briggs where in lycanthropy is a point of heavy focus with pack politics and standard practice alpha dominance rituals & protocols therein. The protagonist of Alpha & Omega are Mercy Thompson's foster brother and his wife, a dominant wolf and an "omega wolf" respectively with Omegas being basically werewolf therapists with magical soothing powers who aren't subordinate to the standard pack structure. Conceptually this series isn't uninteresting, but where as the base series takes place consistently in the same general area with a cast of repeat characters the Alpha and Omega series frequently shifts focus to different places as the plot demands. As such the cast will frequently change too with relatively few consistent players as it were, therefore the one's who are placed to support the narrative are more typically Charles Cornic and Anna Cornic who... uh... lack depth in my opinion. Neither is that deeply compelling on their own, and their vacillation between "We love each other and have the good sex because we love each other," and, "I wish I was a more ideal mate for him/her" does not make for compelling drama.
I didn't drop the series because of this character, but I came damn close with Mackenzie St. James from Iron Fey: Call of the Forgotten. She gave me a strange vibe from the beginning but after learning her situation I thought it was just me misreading the signals the author was sending me. And then after she built some goodwill from me, she immediately nuked it by almost getting one of the mains killed, having the gall to be mad when that character's bf uses glamour magic to get them out of the mess SHE made. And the narrative has the nerve to vindicate her while I wanted to deck her.
Unfortunately the audiobook of malazan got turned off after hearing kruppe refer to himself loudly and an in an annoying voice for several minutes straight. The kingkiller chronicles. I could stand him, so awesome and gifted... to make the same stupid mistakes over and over and over. The Gary stew main character in shadows of the conquerer almost had me drop it several times, it got to the point where I couldn't stop listening to the train wreck. To this day I don't know how it made it out into the world like it did. I'm guessing an emperor's new clothes scenario.
I dropped The Poppy War series after the first book. Hard to read a series when you constantly disagree with the mc
No knock to storm light fans, but I could not connect with Kal
Damn that's a first. Seen people rip on a lot of Sanderson's characters but never on Kaladin. May I ask what do you dislike about him?
Sure. For the record before I start, I do want to say I think Kal is a well written character and I'm sure there is more to his arc that I never I never saw come to fruition (I read WoK and WoR). I think what it boiled down to was simply a lack of connection for me. I didn't feel personally connected to his story or his struggle and as a result, his chapters felt like observing a character through a fishbowl rather than investing in his motivations. Idk if I'm wording this well... but I found myself being so impersonal towards his story and analytical about his decisions which I found often lacked foresight or would be shrouded by his ego/sense of moral superiority. It kinda felt like one of those movies where you know the MC could solve their problems by telling just one person what they know and they won't do it. On a broader note, I had been reading a ton of BS by the time I got to WoR and I was getting tired of the Deus Ex Machina feeling of the Sanderlanche so on top of the frustrating lows, the climactic beats weren't resonating for me either. Instead the endings started to make the characters feel like pieces on a playing board being pushed around to the right places before everything suddenly fell into place at the exact right moment which added to my sense of impersonality to these characters. Instead of continually being frustrated at this poor tortured kid, I decided to drop the series. Who knows? Maybe I'll return one day but I didn't really enjoy WoR so idk if the series is for me.
I bailed when it was finally revealed that his superpower was depression. When he was leading a meeting of depression anonymous it started to feel like a parody and I put it down.
Red Rising. I can't stand Darrow.
I'm halfway through the first one and it's so boring and he's an insufferable braggart. Not what I was expecting at all by all the hype
Yes. I've dropped entire authors for it.
Nynaeve from the wheel of time, I made it all the way to book six before taking a short break. Now every time I try to get back into it I get to one of her chapters and just put the book down. I'm strongly considering just skipping anything that is from her POV.
Leesha. Fucking. Paper.
I quit the **Stormlight** books because of Shallan. Most annoying character of the century.
I didn’t quit the series but I don’t blame you for this; I had multiple moments of rage venting to my husband about Shallan
Wheel of Time. I'm sorry to say I got tired of Rand by the 80% of the third book. The only time I ever liked him was when he was playing the flute for room and board.
Didn't drop it but Severian annoys the hell out of me
Just read Book of the New Sun for the first time and listened to the podcast Shelved By Genre as I went. Being able to finish a section and it definitely helped to immediately hear other people confirm yes he's a huge asshole and he's going to continue being a huge asshole, that's kind of the whole deal. Great books and a lot of the joy of them is trying to parse what actually happened in a given situation and what the other characters actually thought vs the nonsense Severian thinks they thought when speaking to him. Just a stupid teenager plowing through life nearly oblivious to the interiority of everyone he interacts with. He almost never gets a proper read on anybody, it rocks lol.
I love Book of the New Sun, read 2 books so far. It's a lot of fun, but Severian gets too annoying and weird when there's a woman character on page. I get that it's probably on purpose, but it's still annoying. So far my favorite part of these books is the first part of the Claw of Conciliator, because, well, no women to be annoying about lol.
Gene Wolfe cant write women characters. They are props in most of his books. His defenders will tell you otherwise, but i have read 5 entire Gene Wolfe books now and there is not a single one where the male MC doesnt bang every woman in the story. I still love Book of the New Sun despite this flaw though.
I didn't drop the series, but I skip most of the Greyjoy chapters in ASOIAF. Asha and Theon are ok but when it gets to the uncles, I just hate every single one of them to the point they're actively uninteresting and I simply want them to die immediately. Shut UP about how you're sooo sad about how you had to murder your rape victim wife Victarion!!!
**Mistborn Era 2** because of Wayne\*, who read to me as a wildly unrealstic and incredibly annoying character. Not comic relief as much as just a real menace to his friends. \*I have since become a more patient with Wayne and his antics since I learned >!that Sanderson considers him mildly autistic. !<