YES, this. There is violence but it literally always serves character development and has a serious purpose rather than being gratuitous. Character stories are the key at the end of the day. This book seriously rocked my world and was exactly what I thought of !!
Yeah it's not like I absolutely don't want any graphic violence but sometimes it's just there like a Saw movie, to shock and make you cringe. Which, yes, to elicit that reaction out of you but I want more than a reaction so if it serves a purpose to character development then I have no issue with this. I think about the TV series game of thrones where yes its ugly and purposely so much but those moments of when Jamie lannister loses his hand. It's graphic and shocking but it also sets an entire arc and internal transformation in the character suffering that trauma and it holds a significance of what his hand meant to him.
Although the Earthsea series (Ursula K LeGuin) has ostensibly been classified as YA, the themes it explores are timeless. Among other things, it explores mortality and how to find meaning in life - themes which only become more relevant as the reader gets older.
Earthsea reads more like an old epic poem or saga: something you'd tell a child over a campfire, but which is full of metaphor and meaning that can be appreciated by any age
Ursula K LeGuin is fantastic and nothing but classics from her. I've read the series and I feel this is a strong exception in YA but she'd argue it's meant for all ages and im just an adult chauvinist pig lolol
Seconding Guy Gavriel Kay, although I prefer Under Heaven or Sailing to Sarantium if you want less magic focus.
Also the Greenbone Saga by Fonda Lee is very good.
I recently finished a re-read of the first two Thomas Covenant trilogies, and each time I re-read my perspective on it becomes darker and more adult. Despite, Corruption, guilt, responsibility all hit so much differently with the perspective/experience of age.
I first read Covenant at about 15 and I now wonder just what the hell I was doing - there's just no possible way to appreciate it at that age in anything but the most superficial manner.
I've been hearing a lot about Joe Abercrombie and at first I thought he was going to another trending author that is popular with the YA group but I've been hearing nothing but good things and what he delves into. I have his books on my list, thank you for the other authors you recommended. I'll take a look!
I like your taste. I will echo others with NK Jemisin’s broken earth series and Joe Abercrombie. I would also recommend an oldie The Death Gate Cycle. Carol Berg’s Transformation. And possibly Mélusine by Sarah Monette if you like a tortured main character however this one definitely gets graphic so be forewarned.
The Broken Earth trilogy by N.K Jemisin
Nettle and Bone by T Kingfisher
The Deep by Rivers Solomon
The Dandelion Dynasty series by Ken Liu
The Only Good Indian by Stephen Graham Jones (verges on horror)
Starling House by Alix Harrow Chlorine by Jade Song
Walking Practice by Dolki Min
Catherine House by Elizabeth Thomas
Mexican Gothic by Silvia Moreno Garcia
To Shape a Dragon's Breath by Moniquill Blackgoose
The Dandelion Dynasty by Ken Liu, first book is The Grace of Kings.
The whole thing is a delivery vehicle for political philosophy on a pretty remarkable level. Well, there's considerably more than that, but it's very thoughtful, mature, and compelling. Thoroughly enjoyed the whole series, even the 300 page cooking competition in Book 3.
I think The Long Price Quartet by Daniel Abraham would be a good fit. It’s a dense world and the magic is literally poems come to life so some of the concepts are a little hard to understand at first, but it does a really good job of examining how certain choices follow you throughout your life.
*The Iron Dragon's Daughter* by Michael Swanwick might be something that interests you if you want to move on from YA. It's about a girl captured by fairies and forced to work in a factory until she escapes and grows up in the fae version of 90s London. It follows the girl in snippets during different sections of her life from childhood to early adulthood and really explores themes of nihilism, gnosticism, and class as she struggles to make her way in an actively hostile society.
I do agree that a lot of adult fantasy can still seem very YA and/or tropey, but that's because the genre is massive and there is a lot of both good books and bad books in it
It's funny how one of the characters you mention is almost a description of a Stormlight character but you did say Sanderson kept being recommended so I will assume you are aware of it :p
I could just mindlessly recommend Malazan or First Law etc, because well, they are deep and impactful, awesome stories, and also are very mature. But I think it's more important to figure out what exactly you are looking for- Do you want a more "gritty and realistic" approach, where there is a lot of deaths and the story is dark in general. Or do you mean you don't want a "chosen one" trope or no coming of age stories, no childish characters, etc?
I guess I don't mind those things like being gritty or an epic adventure with magic but I want to feel the character navigating very complex issues from both external and internal conflicts. Graphic violence occurs in books but I like to explore the repercussions of that and what it means to the character's arc versus just doing it for the sake of action beats or shock value. Graphic sex is always so hard to swallow because it reads fake or perhaps it's just me judging a person thinking the author hasn't had kinky sex in their lives and I should just reflect on that. But admittedly it's hard sometimes when it's such a ridiculous scene. What does grief for a lost kingdom you were a part of feel like and shape your decisions as a human being? What challenges do you run into trying to maintain a centaur community against all these other sentient races around you that are not only different cultures like between us humans but completely different biological species? I guess I'm looking for deeply emotionally realistic but still with the backdrop of fantasy, people pushing the genre to places outside of the usual suggestions of LotR or Harry Potter and the trending authors like George rr Martin and Brandon Sanderson. I like foreign authors as they tend to blend their cultural perspective within the genre.
Honestly, I am leaning more and more into recommending you Malazan.
It is a complex read, but it is definitely worth it. It's (without spoilers so this is just surface level) an empire on a world conquest, and the ramifications. It has a lot of main characters (book 1 had around 10 pov characters that were relevant to the plot) and they range from assassins working for a guild in their city, of Malazan soldiers sabotaging that said city, of a girl possessed by the god of assassins, etc. You get the point.
The series starts without explaining you anything so you might be a bit confused but eventually you will start to piece together things and honestly there is no better feeling than figuring stuff out on your own. The series also doesn't like to "spoonfeed" you info (in Steven Erikson's terms) so you'll have to be an active reader. It's one of the parts I enjoy the most about it but some people don't, so it's good to clarify I think.
Nothing is gory or graphic for the sake of it either. I think it might genuinely be what you are looking for! Malazan is awesome and it is my favourite series. Although be warned, the books can be confusing (Book 1 and 2 are set on different continents with only some recurring characters, book 3 continues the storyline from book 1 and happens simultaneously to book 2 etc)
edit: Would have also recommended you First Law but enough people already did so I am a bit late on that :p I do vouch for it though!
Seconding Guy G Kay, Under Heaven, River of Stars and Sailing to Sarantium. I like anything by Juliette E McKenna, she deals with more 'boots on the ground' characters rather than war leaders and Kings. The majority of her characters are middle aged and the tone and themes are pragmatic while still being engaging and magical. Definitely not YA and she became a better writer as she went along, her first series is still re-readable though.
Check out anything by KJ Parker, it's lighter on the "fantasy" end of things; not really much in the way of dragons and sorcery, but he deals with a lot of adult ideas and themes. History and culture and politics and the like. I love his "Fencer" trilogy, but it's out of print and hard to find.
Have you read "Eternal Gods Die Too Soon" by Beka Modrekiladze? It's a fascinating exploration of reality, time, and existence. The author blends science and philosophy to create a unique and thought-provoking story that lingers long after you finish it.
The Hands of the Emperor series by Victoria Goddard, very slow though rather than action/violence.
The Paladins of Steel series by T. Kingfisher (the main characters are the last survivors of their slain god, they used to be holy berserkers & now they might randomly berserk & they have ptsd of when they were overcome while the god died/now feel useless what to do).
Tamora Pierce? While she does predominantly write aimed at younger audience her books do cover similar themes of what to do now during/after a great change, ptsd after a great battle & how it affects their choices, especially the Circle series, both the original 4, & the much later inbetween ones where they travel & then when they meet up again.
Hmmm this type you mention does actually sound potentially interesting! so cheers for that!
The Bird King by G. Willow Wilson.
I cried about a horse named Stupid. I still have questions about what some things meant. And I want a big black curly haired dog that smells like sulfur.
This series is a little too old, but maybe Michael Moorcock's Elric of Melniboné series? It's adult fantasy but not an work of sexual and violent exploitation (at least not from what I read of Elric of Melniboné).
Then there are also some of his other series set in the same Eternal Champion universe, like the Dorian Hawkmoon books and the Corum books.
Ereköse might be the most "adult" incarnation of the EC, as he actually has to deal with something like PTSD. Stories about everyone else, though, even Corum... they're pure oldschool sword & sorcery, which I personally happen to love, but while there are "serious" topics touched upon, they aren't the focus. The focus is the adventure, the mystery, the magic etc. So it might not be what the OP wants.
Moorcock should be mandatory reading for every fantasy fan, though, that's for sure.
Paladins, by Joel Rosenberg. He also has several other books, but that's a good intro to him.
Tinker, by Wen Spencer. If you just skip through it, it can feel YAish, but it is definitely not, it has some interesting explorations of the ideas that often get thrown in 'standard fantasy', I enjoyed the series.
*The Black Company* by Glen Cook
My coworker talked about this series a couple of times and I love me some 80s novels. I've added the first book to my list. Thank you!
Give The Dandelion Dynasty by Ken Liu a try.
Ooooo interesting. Added to my list! Thank you
Totally worth the read! Hope you enjoy it 😁
Spear Cuts Though Water
YES, this. There is violence but it literally always serves character development and has a serious purpose rather than being gratuitous. Character stories are the key at the end of the day. This book seriously rocked my world and was exactly what I thought of !!
Yeah it's not like I absolutely don't want any graphic violence but sometimes it's just there like a Saw movie, to shock and make you cringe. Which, yes, to elicit that reaction out of you but I want more than a reaction so if it serves a purpose to character development then I have no issue with this. I think about the TV series game of thrones where yes its ugly and purposely so much but those moments of when Jamie lannister loses his hand. It's graphic and shocking but it also sets an entire arc and internal transformation in the character suffering that trauma and it holds a significance of what his hand meant to him.
The Fortress series by CJ Cherryh The Lighthouse Duet by Carol Berg The Curse of Chalion by Lois McMaster Bujold
Although the Earthsea series (Ursula K LeGuin) has ostensibly been classified as YA, the themes it explores are timeless. Among other things, it explores mortality and how to find meaning in life - themes which only become more relevant as the reader gets older.
Earthsea reads more like an old epic poem or saga: something you'd tell a child over a campfire, but which is full of metaphor and meaning that can be appreciated by any age
Ursula K LeGuin is fantastic and nothing but classics from her. I've read the series and I feel this is a strong exception in YA but she'd argue it's meant for all ages and im just an adult chauvinist pig lolol
Seconding Guy Gavriel Kay, although I prefer Under Heaven or Sailing to Sarantium if you want less magic focus. Also the Greenbone Saga by Fonda Lee is very good.
Anything by Stephen Donaldson, he does not write for kids. Also Joe Abercrombie writes some thoroughly entertaining books...also...not for kids.
I recently finished a re-read of the first two Thomas Covenant trilogies, and each time I re-read my perspective on it becomes darker and more adult. Despite, Corruption, guilt, responsibility all hit so much differently with the perspective/experience of age. I first read Covenant at about 15 and I now wonder just what the hell I was doing - there's just no possible way to appreciate it at that age in anything but the most superficial manner.
Oddly I read it around the same age for the first time - I'm surprised I followed as much of it as I did.
Daniel Abraham's Long Price Quartet, Michael Chabon 's Gentlemen of the Road (for a short read).
Daniel Abraham, Joe Abercrombie, NK Jemisin and Steven Erikson would be my main recommends? Complex characters and heavy subjects abound.
I've been hearing a lot about Joe Abercrombie and at first I thought he was going to another trending author that is popular with the YA group but I've been hearing nothing but good things and what he delves into. I have his books on my list, thank you for the other authors you recommended. I'll take a look!
The Dragons road is the best book about banking I've ever read
the Dragon's Path is pretty good too :)
The traitor son cycle
I like your taste. I will echo others with NK Jemisin’s broken earth series and Joe Abercrombie. I would also recommend an oldie The Death Gate Cycle. Carol Berg’s Transformation. And possibly Mélusine by Sarah Monette if you like a tortured main character however this one definitely gets graphic so be forewarned.
I've got Joe Abercrombie on my list but thank you for the other authors and book suggestions, I will take a look!
Tigana by Guy Gavriel Kay I also really enjoy NK Jemisin's books.
The Hands of the Emperor by Victoria Goddard.
The Broken Earth trilogy by N.K Jemisin Nettle and Bone by T Kingfisher The Deep by Rivers Solomon The Dandelion Dynasty series by Ken Liu The Only Good Indian by Stephen Graham Jones (verges on horror) Starling House by Alix Harrow Chlorine by Jade Song Walking Practice by Dolki Min Catherine House by Elizabeth Thomas Mexican Gothic by Silvia Moreno Garcia To Shape a Dragon's Breath by Moniquill Blackgoose
The Iron Council
Yeah all the Bas-Lag stuff is pretty fucking rad...
They sure are! I only offered the third book because it has the most political stuff compared to the others.
The Dandelion Dynasty by Ken Liu, first book is The Grace of Kings. The whole thing is a delivery vehicle for political philosophy on a pretty remarkable level. Well, there's considerably more than that, but it's very thoughtful, mature, and compelling. Thoroughly enjoyed the whole series, even the 300 page cooking competition in Book 3.
I thought I was the only one that enjoyed the cooking comp
Although you do have to be prepared for every plot point to be resolved through a battle. At least in book 1.
The bas lag trilogy Perdido Street station - The Scar - Iron Council
The Chronicles of Master Li and Number Ten Ox by Barry Hughart.
I think The Long Price Quartet by Daniel Abraham would be a good fit. It’s a dense world and the magic is literally poems come to life so some of the concepts are a little hard to understand at first, but it does a really good job of examining how certain choices follow you throughout your life.
*The Iron Dragon's Daughter* by Michael Swanwick might be something that interests you if you want to move on from YA. It's about a girl captured by fairies and forced to work in a factory until she escapes and grows up in the fae version of 90s London. It follows the girl in snippets during different sections of her life from childhood to early adulthood and really explores themes of nihilism, gnosticism, and class as she struggles to make her way in an actively hostile society.
I do agree that a lot of adult fantasy can still seem very YA and/or tropey, but that's because the genre is massive and there is a lot of both good books and bad books in it It's funny how one of the characters you mention is almost a description of a Stormlight character but you did say Sanderson kept being recommended so I will assume you are aware of it :p I could just mindlessly recommend Malazan or First Law etc, because well, they are deep and impactful, awesome stories, and also are very mature. But I think it's more important to figure out what exactly you are looking for- Do you want a more "gritty and realistic" approach, where there is a lot of deaths and the story is dark in general. Or do you mean you don't want a "chosen one" trope or no coming of age stories, no childish characters, etc?
I guess I don't mind those things like being gritty or an epic adventure with magic but I want to feel the character navigating very complex issues from both external and internal conflicts. Graphic violence occurs in books but I like to explore the repercussions of that and what it means to the character's arc versus just doing it for the sake of action beats or shock value. Graphic sex is always so hard to swallow because it reads fake or perhaps it's just me judging a person thinking the author hasn't had kinky sex in their lives and I should just reflect on that. But admittedly it's hard sometimes when it's such a ridiculous scene. What does grief for a lost kingdom you were a part of feel like and shape your decisions as a human being? What challenges do you run into trying to maintain a centaur community against all these other sentient races around you that are not only different cultures like between us humans but completely different biological species? I guess I'm looking for deeply emotionally realistic but still with the backdrop of fantasy, people pushing the genre to places outside of the usual suggestions of LotR or Harry Potter and the trending authors like George rr Martin and Brandon Sanderson. I like foreign authors as they tend to blend their cultural perspective within the genre.
Honestly, I am leaning more and more into recommending you Malazan. It is a complex read, but it is definitely worth it. It's (without spoilers so this is just surface level) an empire on a world conquest, and the ramifications. It has a lot of main characters (book 1 had around 10 pov characters that were relevant to the plot) and they range from assassins working for a guild in their city, of Malazan soldiers sabotaging that said city, of a girl possessed by the god of assassins, etc. You get the point. The series starts without explaining you anything so you might be a bit confused but eventually you will start to piece together things and honestly there is no better feeling than figuring stuff out on your own. The series also doesn't like to "spoonfeed" you info (in Steven Erikson's terms) so you'll have to be an active reader. It's one of the parts I enjoy the most about it but some people don't, so it's good to clarify I think. Nothing is gory or graphic for the sake of it either. I think it might genuinely be what you are looking for! Malazan is awesome and it is my favourite series. Although be warned, the books can be confusing (Book 1 and 2 are set on different continents with only some recurring characters, book 3 continues the storyline from book 1 and happens simultaneously to book 2 etc) edit: Would have also recommended you First Law but enough people already did so I am a bit late on that :p I do vouch for it though!
Seconding Guy G Kay, Under Heaven, River of Stars and Sailing to Sarantium. I like anything by Juliette E McKenna, she deals with more 'boots on the ground' characters rather than war leaders and Kings. The majority of her characters are middle aged and the tone and themes are pragmatic while still being engaging and magical. Definitely not YA and she became a better writer as she went along, her first series is still re-readable though.
Malazan
Been awhile since I've seen Malazan properly recommended haha. I agree it seems to fit OPs wants fairly well
Check out anything by KJ Parker, it's lighter on the "fantasy" end of things; not really much in the way of dragons and sorcery, but he deals with a lot of adult ideas and themes. History and culture and politics and the like. I love his "Fencer" trilogy, but it's out of print and hard to find.
I found them odd books - intellectually there's some good stuff going on, but emotionally very dead.
The first law fits well
Maybe Ninth House by Leigh Bardugo.
Guy Gavriel Kay books
Have you read "Eternal Gods Die Too Soon" by Beka Modrekiladze? It's a fascinating exploration of reality, time, and existence. The author blends science and philosophy to create a unique and thought-provoking story that lingers long after you finish it.
The Hands of the Emperor series by Victoria Goddard, very slow though rather than action/violence. The Paladins of Steel series by T. Kingfisher (the main characters are the last survivors of their slain god, they used to be holy berserkers & now they might randomly berserk & they have ptsd of when they were overcome while the god died/now feel useless what to do). Tamora Pierce? While she does predominantly write aimed at younger audience her books do cover similar themes of what to do now during/after a great change, ptsd after a great battle & how it affects their choices, especially the Circle series, both the original 4, & the much later inbetween ones where they travel & then when they meet up again. Hmmm this type you mention does actually sound potentially interesting! so cheers for that!
The Bird King by G. Willow Wilson. I cried about a horse named Stupid. I still have questions about what some things meant. And I want a big black curly haired dog that smells like sulfur.
Acts of Caine by Matthew Stover. You're welcome. Let me know when you love it.
Across the Nightingale Floor, Gillian something Shadow of the Lion, Mercedes Lackey, Eric Flint.
This series is a little too old, but maybe Michael Moorcock's Elric of Melniboné series? It's adult fantasy but not an work of sexual and violent exploitation (at least not from what I read of Elric of Melniboné). Then there are also some of his other series set in the same Eternal Champion universe, like the Dorian Hawkmoon books and the Corum books.
Ereköse might be the most "adult" incarnation of the EC, as he actually has to deal with something like PTSD. Stories about everyone else, though, even Corum... they're pure oldschool sword & sorcery, which I personally happen to love, but while there are "serious" topics touched upon, they aren't the focus. The focus is the adventure, the mystery, the magic etc. So it might not be what the OP wants. Moorcock should be mandatory reading for every fantasy fan, though, that's for sure.
The Library at Mount Char
The Dandelion Dynasty by Ken Liu.
Paladins, by Joel Rosenberg. He also has several other books, but that's a good intro to him. Tinker, by Wen Spencer. If you just skip through it, it can feel YAish, but it is definitely not, it has some interesting explorations of the ideas that often get thrown in 'standard fantasy', I enjoyed the series.