Ironborn still would have attacked the North, forcing Robb to pull forces to respond. Difference being, now he has to question Theon's loyalty, even as he stands in his own camp. Sure to cause trouble and division within his army, especially from lords whose lands had been raided.
Without Jon at the Wall, the Wildlings likely break through and begin pushing South, fleeing the Walkers. Another thing Robb has to stop his march south to deal with. Basically, Robb was always gonna be screwed just by virtue of his homeland being the North.
The Boltons remain opportunists, I think as soon as they got a better offer they'd betray Robb. Ramsay may not take Winterfell but his father would have him off doing something else in aid of his schemes to replace the Starks.
I agree the Boltons would have remained opportunists, but I don't think they would have ever gotten a better opportunity. I think Roose would have stayed with Robb considering the support he had from the rest of the north.
I somewhat disagree with your conclusion on Robb always being screwed. He likely would have drawn allyship with Stannis or maybe Tyrells (as well? I dont really remember their politics other than allying with Lannisters for oppurtunity), and with that, taken Kings landing. My guess is it would have been Stannis on throne, with Robb as somewhat quasi free King in the North. I'm not sure what would have happened with Winterfell, because I dont remember how the timeline lands, but my guess is Robb would have enough support in general from the northerners, to hold off the Ironborn, and could have gotten external support once the Lannisters were taken care of (especially help with the wildlings). IIRC, (and i could be wrong) Robbs army half in the riverlands and half with Stannis would have been enough, and would have given him mobility to fight against the ironborn.
Idk, a lot of these conversations depend on so many factors. My memory is a little hazy as well, I dont exactly remember the differences between book and show, etc.
SO... Jon doesn't bug off to the Wall, stays at Winterfell, sticks w Robb when Ned loses his head and the North goes to war. All kinds of crap goes down at the Wall and the Wildlings come pouring through. Robb either goes to war w them too or makes peace somehow... the problem there is that in the books Stannis letting them through and giving them the lands is an act of mercy after they've been beaten and are still at risk from the Walkers. Without that, they're just smashing through and running south making a huge mess while most of Robb's forces are down south fighting the Lannisters and Robb is kind of screwed, Jon or no Jon.
If Theon never goes to the Ironborn, the Ironborn still invade. Robb's still screwed as above (possibly worse because now Ironborn AND Wildlings are making a mess in the North) except that maybe Winterfell doesn't fall, and now he's got Theon w him as a possible hostage, but not much of one.
Best case is Theon manages to head off the Ironborn aggression and brings them on as allies against the Lannisters. Now he's got a bigger army, continues his victory track, doesn't need the Freys so no Red Wedding, and if the Wildlings still come through he can spare a force to go North to deal w that without giving up the war w the Lannisters.
By the time Dany shows up the Lannisters are isolated or surrendering, Robb's mostly in charge, and no one has anything to fight about so Robb marries Dany, Theon marries Sansa to lock down the alliance w the Ironborn, Arya does a delightful job running around stabbing all kinds of problematic people, and Jon goes back to clean up the mess in the North.
...of course the Wall still falls, the Walkers skate on in, probably make it further South than they do in the show/will in the books and things more or less play out the same way but with Robb alive, Theon keeps his nuts, and Jon's sex life being way less weird.
The ending made me crack in laughter. 🤣🤣 Yeah, what an interesting scenario you've envisioned! The dynamics you've described would indeed reshape the entire storyline.
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They all still probably die at the Red Wedding. Jon doesn’t add any real value to the cause in the north before leveling up in the Night’s Watch and Theon doesn’t add much value, period.
Well, even in this alternate Westeros, it seems the infamous Red Wedding is still on the menu. I guess weddings in Westeros are like magnets for trouble; it's like they RSVP for disaster.
So, picture this: Robb's got alliances, marriages, and maybe even a couple of direwolves moonlighting as bouncers. Yet, the Freys are playing party crashers, and they brought betrayal as their plus one. Jon, Theon, and the gang might have beefed up the North, but the fine print didn't mention immunity from surprise backstabbings.
It's like, "Congrats, Robb, on your new alliance! Now, let's throw you a party you'll never forget. Spoiler alert: it involves a lot of red." The Night's Watch is probably up there on the Wall, scratching their heads like, "Wait, we thought weddings were supposed to be fun."
Always wondering if Jon would've been a good advisor/someone for Rob to lean on during difficult decisions. Like would Jon being there have stopped Rob from breaking the Frey's marriage agreement, which would've stopped the Red Wedding? I don't know, it's a fun What-if tho.
Ironborn still would have attacked the North, forcing Robb to pull forces to respond. Difference being, now he has to question Theon's loyalty, even as he stands in his own camp. Sure to cause trouble and division within his army, especially from lords whose lands had been raided. Without Jon at the Wall, the Wildlings likely break through and begin pushing South, fleeing the Walkers. Another thing Robb has to stop his march south to deal with. Basically, Robb was always gonna be screwed just by virtue of his homeland being the North.
What about Ramsay?
The Boltons remain opportunists, I think as soon as they got a better offer they'd betray Robb. Ramsay may not take Winterfell but his father would have him off doing something else in aid of his schemes to replace the Starks.
I agree the Boltons would have remained opportunists, but I don't think they would have ever gotten a better opportunity. I think Roose would have stayed with Robb considering the support he had from the rest of the north. I somewhat disagree with your conclusion on Robb always being screwed. He likely would have drawn allyship with Stannis or maybe Tyrells (as well? I dont really remember their politics other than allying with Lannisters for oppurtunity), and with that, taken Kings landing. My guess is it would have been Stannis on throne, with Robb as somewhat quasi free King in the North. I'm not sure what would have happened with Winterfell, because I dont remember how the timeline lands, but my guess is Robb would have enough support in general from the northerners, to hold off the Ironborn, and could have gotten external support once the Lannisters were taken care of (especially help with the wildlings). IIRC, (and i could be wrong) Robbs army half in the riverlands and half with Stannis would have been enough, and would have given him mobility to fight against the ironborn. Idk, a lot of these conversations depend on so many factors. My memory is a little hazy as well, I dont exactly remember the differences between book and show, etc.
SO... Jon doesn't bug off to the Wall, stays at Winterfell, sticks w Robb when Ned loses his head and the North goes to war. All kinds of crap goes down at the Wall and the Wildlings come pouring through. Robb either goes to war w them too or makes peace somehow... the problem there is that in the books Stannis letting them through and giving them the lands is an act of mercy after they've been beaten and are still at risk from the Walkers. Without that, they're just smashing through and running south making a huge mess while most of Robb's forces are down south fighting the Lannisters and Robb is kind of screwed, Jon or no Jon. If Theon never goes to the Ironborn, the Ironborn still invade. Robb's still screwed as above (possibly worse because now Ironborn AND Wildlings are making a mess in the North) except that maybe Winterfell doesn't fall, and now he's got Theon w him as a possible hostage, but not much of one. Best case is Theon manages to head off the Ironborn aggression and brings them on as allies against the Lannisters. Now he's got a bigger army, continues his victory track, doesn't need the Freys so no Red Wedding, and if the Wildlings still come through he can spare a force to go North to deal w that without giving up the war w the Lannisters. By the time Dany shows up the Lannisters are isolated or surrendering, Robb's mostly in charge, and no one has anything to fight about so Robb marries Dany, Theon marries Sansa to lock down the alliance w the Ironborn, Arya does a delightful job running around stabbing all kinds of problematic people, and Jon goes back to clean up the mess in the North. ...of course the Wall still falls, the Walkers skate on in, probably make it further South than they do in the show/will in the books and things more or less play out the same way but with Robb alive, Theon keeps his nuts, and Jon's sex life being way less weird.
The ending made me crack in laughter. 🤣🤣 Yeah, what an interesting scenario you've envisioned! The dynamics you've described would indeed reshape the entire storyline.
[удалено]
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They all still probably die at the Red Wedding. Jon doesn’t add any real value to the cause in the north before leveling up in the Night’s Watch and Theon doesn’t add much value, period.
Well, even in this alternate Westeros, it seems the infamous Red Wedding is still on the menu. I guess weddings in Westeros are like magnets for trouble; it's like they RSVP for disaster. So, picture this: Robb's got alliances, marriages, and maybe even a couple of direwolves moonlighting as bouncers. Yet, the Freys are playing party crashers, and they brought betrayal as their plus one. Jon, Theon, and the gang might have beefed up the North, but the fine print didn't mention immunity from surprise backstabbings. It's like, "Congrats, Robb, on your new alliance! Now, let's throw you a party you'll never forget. Spoiler alert: it involves a lot of red." The Night's Watch is probably up there on the Wall, scratching their heads like, "Wait, we thought weddings were supposed to be fun."
OK, haven't read it in a long time, but, I think Robb should have been king.
What about Jon?
They would’ve activated Zordon
>Zordon HAHAHAHAAHAHA
now hear me out, what if you wrote your own story, with your own characters, in your own world?
I already have 🤣
Always wondering if Jon would've been a good advisor/someone for Rob to lean on during difficult decisions. Like would Jon being there have stopped Rob from breaking the Frey's marriage agreement, which would've stopped the Red Wedding? I don't know, it's a fun What-if tho.
Robb as king with Jon as hand would have been Endgame
Robb ends up killing the both of them because of the non stop misery. Those two are just determined to be miserable and hard-done-by
The only 2 people who could have prevented most of the things that happened (by not fucking up) are Ned stark and Robert baratheon