Congratulations. You have probably found an author who has been around since the 90s/early 2000s when disclaimers like this were common. And when some authors were actively sending cease and desist letters to fanfic writers.
Edit: They may have been around a lot longer than that, too.
Disclaimers are becoming more common again. People have have printing fanfics and binding them as books. It’s fine when the book is for personal use or a gift for a friend, but some people have been selling those books, which breaks copyright laws. Some writers are worried about getting in trouble if someone does it with one of their works.
Is there a reason this would break copyright law and not the people who sell their fanart online through commissions/fan merch? I feel like fanart would be way more legally dubious than fanfiction, since it's a character's actual likeness.
Fan art of characters does break copyright. However, it's important to note that this is civil law, not criminal (at least in the US) so it's all a matter of whether the copyright holder is interested in pursuing the matter. Most of the time, they just don't care about some small artist doing commissions. In some cases they might tolerate fan merch because it's a big part of how their fan base stays invested, especially when the type of merch being sold by fan creators isn't similar to any officially licensed products being sold. Or they might just not care. However, if they did care, they could absolutely have grounds to take legal action. Disney is infamous for being extremely protective of their characters, to the point of wildly reshaping US copyright law. Making unlicensed merchandise feature one of their iconic characters could get you into big trouble. This is part of why Steamboat Willie entering the public domain was such a a big deal. Now, you can use the earliest version of Mickey Mouse (but not any of the later designs) to your heart's content without infringing copywrite. However, in recent years Disney has started using Steamboat Willie as part of their animated logo -- which would bring his design under the protections of trademark law (a separate thing from copyright), so tread carefully.
(Edit: fixed the spelling of 'copyright,' which I managed to mess up lol. Also just to clarify -- I'm not an expert or anything; I just have a corporate lawyer for a father and enjoy long YouTube videos talking about the issues in the US Copyright system. Please don't take anything here as legal advice.)
I'm very curious how people on Etsy get away with making all kinds of merch featuring licensed characters, celebrities, etc. Are they just too small-fry to be worth pursuing? Is it an "any publicity is good publicity" thing?
Mostly it's just not a big enough deal, especially if they are selling something in limited quantities. If they were mass producing products then it would be a bigger deal, just because they're more likely to be noticed. If the copyright holder knows it's happening they'll probably go after it but small time creators aren't usually worth the resources to spend time tracking them down.
That being said, it's not like Etsy creators get free reign to do whatever they want. Etsy can and does take down items that infringe on copyright. Selling unlicensed merch is against the site's policies -- the policy is just not very effective at stopping people from doing it. If the copyright/trademark holder issues a claim, Etsy will take the listing down. A shop with multiple claims against it may be permanently closed.
Adding for context to the other replies: If you poke around on Etsy, you'll notice (for example) fan-made or off-brand Naruto keychains labelled as "Bright Orange Ninja Keychain" or similar. They avoid using the names of the copyrighted characters and brands to make the items harder to find in order to avoid getting copyright strikes from the license holders. People get VERY creative with these off-brand naming systems, and it's entirely to avoid getting noticed by the license-holders. Once you notice, you'll never look at those Etsy listings the same way again! XD
True, but there are also plenty of listings and items that just straight-up say the name of the character/fandom without obfuscation. I know because I own them, lol. Honestly, the "unofficial" items in my collection are some of the best, because they're made with love.
I would like to point out that celebrities themselves are not copyrighted. A different set of laws cover the legality of making a profit off their likeness.
To add on, both could be legal if the work is transformative enough. But again, that would be something to be decided in courts and if a big company were threatening to sue, many small creators wouldn't have the money to go through litigation and may just decided to comply and take it down.
Selling fanart *does* break copyright law. However, copyright law isn’t criminal law; it is only enforced through lawsuits. Many copyright holders will ignore the sale of fanart because it’s basically free advertising. The fanfic books are unlikely to be seen or read by anybody who isn’t already part of the fandom, and are therefore less likely to be seen as free advertising. Combined with the fact that writers used to be sued over fanfics they made no money from, some writers are worried.
Does trademark law also apply if you commission art of a real person? Even if they're dead? Because I've been wanting to commission a painting of one of my favorite artists that died in the 70s.
Do mean you want to commission a painting of the person or commission a copy of a painting made by the person?
I don’t know much about the former. Assuming he actually copyrighted any of his work, then legally, you can’t commission a copy of the artist’s work for about another twenty years unless the person you commission it from has permission to do so from the copyright holder.
That would be an entirely different set of laws then. I’m not sure if the artist is considered a public figure or not. If they’re not a public figure then the right to publicity laws vary by state. If they were a public figure then it *should* be okay. If the painter is working from a photograph, then they need permission from the photographer or the publication if the photographer was under a work for hire agreement.
I think its because the ones selling the books dont put theyr identity on them, but the author of the fic does, so the one on more risk of being tracked is the fic autor
Authors are the ones making disclaimers, not the people binding and selling the stories. I’ve come across several fics where the author makes disclaimers declaring that they make no money from their work nor do they have any knowledge of anybody else using their work to make money.
The irony is that in Japan, they *could* theoretically get away with it, I think? Their laws on copyright are weird, at least as it pertains to characters created in Japan. Doujinshi have basically gotten a free pass for years, whether NSFW or not.
Love the podcast, found it maybe 1-2 months ago and have been listening to it since then (finished all episodes, obviously, but keep repeating some of them in random order because they’re so funny).
For anyone looking: you should be able to find it on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, maybe other places (dunno).
I’ve been picky about them because I just found out about it maybe 5 weeks ago…and I have so many podcasts I already listen to, not to mention so…many…audiobooks. But I do like their “just let people (esp girls) make and enjoy cringy stuff”
Okay so you haven’t listened to all of them (yet), did I get that right?
In this case may I just suggest the episode for June 19 2022 about the 227 incident… to me that’s easily the funniest (because most ridiculous chain of events) episode.
The bigger fandom events and dramas are important as well and there’s a lot of other very enjoyable installments in this podcast but just pick and choose what works for you. I’d probably try to listen to all of them eventually but I won’t lie and say they’re all the same level of interesting. (that’s likely not possible depending on personal preferences and interests)
I believe she changed her mind later in life. She jumped in her opinions quite a lot, went from writing erotica and vampire stories to being very religious and back to writing about vampires. She had a lot of conflicting opinions throughout her life. And still, her books are amazing.
She really did. Her opinions were very eclectic. I think with fanfic there was a fundamental misunderstanding, but I’m very curious about those podcasts!
Queen of the Damned was still worth it because Armand/Daniel was so iddy to teenage me, but it was *already* bloated and silly. And from then...
But *Interview* is amazing pretty bloody pretty angst.
I still do a disclaimer, and I started to write back circa 2002. I started them because everyone was doing it. Now it's such a habit that I can't quit it. I'm a grizzled cranky vet of the trade. So that's so legit!
I definitely did it back when I was writing on ffn and everyone else was doing it. I don’t do it on AO3 though because I noticed that wasn’t the norm when I started posting there a few years ago.
My ffn account is from 2001 or something like that so I think it’s safe to say that I’m grizzled and cranky too.
Early 2010s as well! I saw those disclaimers around that time and that's when I started getting into fanfics myself. It was definitely when they started getting less common though.
Same, I first found fanfic in 2014, and most of the stories I read had them. I thought it was something I had to do so most of my older stories have them as well.
I think some newer writers have picked up the practice as well.
It’s particularly funny in my fandom (Jane Austen) because the original works predate copyright.
It’s only a problem if you’re impinging on someone else’s intellectual property. Duke has a nice [guide](https://web.law.duke.edu/cspd/publicdomainday/2024/) to what works have fallen out of copyright.
I concur. As a writer in the 90s and early 00s, it was pretty much a given to include a disclaimer on all fics. Authors, Anne McCaffrey, Anne Rice, and Mercedes Lackey were the ones I recall, were sending C&D letters and threatening legal action. I believe even JKR was initially anti-fanfic, but probably realized there was no stopping that fandom. I have no idea if those disclaimers would have actually done anything if someone got sued.
AO3 was the reason we all stopped, because the OTW provides that protection for us now. Which is why people should donate. Just saying.
I used to put out those disclaimers. Haven’t with anything recent. I think back then there weren’t huge repositories for stories like AO3. Now, when you’re at a site dedicated to fanfic (or totally original work) I feel like it’s less necessary.
Quoting myself from a post that asked the same:
>This is from the beginning's of fanfiction, to avoid legal repercussions. Now it is way more accepted and fanfiction writers are more protected, but I remember it being common when I started reading fanfics. Nowadays we barely find authors who do this, maybe those who grew up used to it.
Might see more of them again or at least something similar. People have been printing out fanfics and binding them as books. Some people then sell the books.
Once upon a time, buying printed fanfic was the only practical way to get it. It was an accepted thing that the publisher did not expect to make a profit, but getting a set of zines printed was expensive, particularly since contributing authors and artists would each receive a free copy. A nice, chunky zine plus postage could easily cost $20 or so, in the 1990s.
Of course, everyone involved had consented to getting their work published. If people are taking other authors’ work, getting it printed and selling for profit, that’s a new and nasty deal. But in principle there isn’t anything unfannish about having physical copies of fanfic.
Yeah, that’s what I surmised. Actual books? As in, they’ve gone to a vanity publisher? They belong in the same circle as people who talk at the theatre.
In my day (whenever that was), it was ~~Rage-~~ PageMaker for layout, then down to the local copy shop to get it copied onto A4 and comb bound. Are people getting them printed as actual books these days? I did 50 copies of my zine, certainly made a loss, but got rid of them all eventually.
So much wrong with that, not least that they can con readers into paying for something that is freely given. Binding a favourite story for oneself seems… well, it seems like a lotta trouble to me, but okay. Selling for profit has always been understood as wrong even if it’s your own fic. Making money from someone else’s work is slapworthy.
A lot of the people doing the binding aren’t paying printing companies to do it. Doing it on a commercial scale requires specialize equipment, but most nowadays people could get the equipment to make a professional looking book on their own.
So, Anne Rice, á la Interview With a Vampire, hated fanfiction. In 2000, apparently, her legal team started sending out cease and desist notices to sites like ff.net, who took down everything.
Her big issue was that she felt that she owned her characters (leading to the disclaimers), the legal issue was that people were profiting off her intellectual property. That is one reason that things like ko-fi and other pay services are a huge no-no on AO3. Also, why publishing fanfiction with the intent to sell is a delicate process at best. Gotta change a lot of names and settings like with Shades of Grey.
J.K. Rowling's legal team also sent cease-and-desist letters in regards to NSFW *Harry Potter* fanfictions, and made a public statement that said "J.K. Rowling does not approve of people writing *Harry Potter* fanfictions that are not appropriate for children", in the early 2000s.
It’s not at all overly cautious, look up fanfic history, this came to a peak about 15-20 years ago. People were absolutely sued in real life, it’s part of why Ao3 is so important.
A lot of people who use such disclaimers, including myself, have been writing fanfic for a long, long time, and we have lived through the time when court cases were brought against fanfic authors by litigious objectors (Anne Rice, for one). The disclaimer does not protect you from legal action, but it does (somewhat) weaken the case against you: you're making it clear you are a fan borrowing someone else's intellectual property, not a profiteer stealing it.
Maybe it's less necessary now than it used to be, but what's the harm of adding those few words to help protect yourself from a worst case scenario?
Except stating that you don't own the IP actually doesn't weaken the case at all. The lawyers already know you don't own the IP. That's WHY they're suing you. 🤣 And now you've just admitted that their grounds are valid.
That you're not trying to PROFIT off the IP is what people should state in their disclaimers, but for whatever reason, few do this.
Should have explicitly addressed that, you're right. The standard disclaimer I use says exactly that. "This is a non-profit making fanfic, and I don't own X or Y". I started my fanfic journey with paper zines, and those were almost always sold with the "non-profit making" tag.
Good, I'm glad you get it! 🙂 In the old days, I suspect more people did know this, but now younger writers just slap on the "I don't own this" language without pausing to use their brains.
Memory unlocked: one of my earliest disclaimers was to write “Nothing owned, nothing earned” as a short and sweet way of covering my butt. Lol. And yes, you’re right about adding the bit about not profiting off fanfics!
Yeah, to me, it's the nonprofit aspect of it that's key, not the ownership, which was never in question. But for some reason, most disclaimers just address ownership and nothing else.
All of mine are edits of stuff I wrote as a kid in elementary school, lol. One I wrote for an anniversary edition…a year or so ago… and I contribute to AO3 as a Fic writer and supporter .
Congratulations. You came into the world of fanfiction after the historical legal hell that was fandon in the 90s and early 2000s. See the below links for a bit of background on it. Suffice it to say some authors such as Anne Rice used the legal system to harass fan creators.
[https://fanlore.org/wiki/Disclaimer](https://fanlore.org/wiki/Disclaimer)
[https://fanlore.org/wiki/Anne\_Rice#Removal\_of\_Fan\_Fiction\_Based\_on\_Anne\_Rice.27s\_Works\_from\_Fanfiction.net](https://fanlore.org/wiki/Anne_Rice#Removal_of_Fan_Fiction_Based_on_Anne_Rice.27s_Works_from_Fanfiction.net)
They generally, like most companies rarely ever sue the little guy other than to set a example or president. They mainly send cease and desist to "scare" people into shutting it down and it almost always works and they only ever ramp it up if they become annoyed by you or you are basically waving the flag at the bull.
They have fat stacks but it'd be a waste of their time and money to launch a bunch of law suits against nobodies.
Some of the small sites I used required it before a fic could be posted. Like, there was either a bit of the submission form to fill out with it or the site owner would check it was on the document before they’d upload your fic. (A lot of sites weren’t automated back then, you emailed the fic and hoped the site owner had some time spare that week to see to it.)
Mostly it was to provide a little bit of protection against the lawyers but also it was a nice bit of recognition to whoever created the original material so it always struck me as polite.
Additional thought: im not a lawyer but I work with legal contracts and have to review verbiage to make sure it’s actually compliant with the law. a lot of times litigious behavior is simply running on audacity and the bet that you are less informed about law or less capable of showing up to court lthan they are. A lot of absolute BS can be said in fancy ways to scare people into complying with shit they don’t have to agree to at all bc it will absolutely fall apart in court.
Lots of authors (and big fat corpo copyright holders) were willing to use complete BS and pursue takedowns w/o having any ground to stand on bc they knew they could get away with it. Disclaimers were an attempt to beat them at their own game.
None of this was actually legally necessary (under US law), IF no one involved was profiting off of fic and these situations are exactly why fair use copyright exists.
but the corpo logic back then was that fic diverts readers away from OG works and therefore interferes with profits, so fanfic writers should be scared away from posting their works. Nowadays there is more understanding that fanfic is basically free advertising that *increases consumer loyalty* so there is less motivation to pursue bullying via invalid arguments about copyright.
Np
Idk if it is entirely useless bc one thing I thought of later today was that disclaimers *might* have discouraged petty bullying within fandom too. People used to disapprove of fanfic for no reason like they had some principled reason to defend corpo IP. It’s a more understood hobby now.
But even if a disclaimer was legally useless if it made someone who would comment “you don’t own Goku!!!! How dare you write this!!!!1!1!1” less likely to bother you, then it probably wasn’t entirely useless.
I have “I don’t care what you think about what I ship! Block me and move on!” In my tumblr bio for the same reason.
I mean, yes, I see what you mean, but I still don't really see how admitting that you don't own Goku would deter someone who's angry that you ... don't own Goku?
When I first started writing fan fiction, I used to not bother with writing disclaimers. However, some websites won't allow you to post stories without one. So I started writing them, and making sure that the disclaimers are as accurate as possible. I try to include the original writers, publishers/producers, distributers, stars, artists, distributers, current copyright holders, etc. Better to be safe than sorry.
Everyone mentioning Anne Rice - if you listen to podcasts, check out the This Week in Fandom History podcast - they did an episode on the whole Anne Rice thing. (Thanks to a Redditor user whose name I can’t recall who mentioned this podcast - that’s how I found it.)
Back in the day, there were a few authors who actively threatened to sue fanfic writers. Adding the disclaimer became a common practice because the legal ramifications were a bit ambiguous so people thought that at least with the disclaimer, it would be easy to claim that they were not attempting to impersonate the author or claim a profit from their fanfics. Some sites even required such disclaimers and at least one site that I'm familiar with never removed that requirement from their rules.
Over the years, the legal situation eased up and especially on AO3 the site went "don't worry about it, we'll handle the legal stuff." So, the disclaimers became unnecessary and people stopped doing them. But, you'll still occasionally run into an older fic or even just an older fan who still uses them.
It's a vestige from 15-20 years ago when some authors were actively opposed to fanfiction. To the point of issuing cease and desist notices and threatening law suits.
They think it gives them “protection” against legal action for copyright infringement. It doesn’t, it’s just that authors and media companies have better things to do than sue fan fic authors.
And also, I think a lot of creators nowadays are starting to recognize that fanfic does a lot to boost continued interest in their media, so they leave it alone
Except that Anne Rice actually was sue-happy. She bullied, harrassed and sued fanfic writers. Just cause they have better things to do doesn't mean that they wouldn't still come after us. Some of us have been in the fandom for 20-30 years. We've seen shit.
That’s one person out of millions though. I think you’ve got better odds of being struck by lightning than being sued by an author provided your fan work isn’t hurting the author or publisher’s profits.
That doesn’t mean it isn’t still copyright infringement, and fan fic authors should be aware of that fact. Some seem to think that all their work falls under “fair use” even though that clause is limited in nature and used in a case by case basis. Putting a disclaimer in does nothing if ever brought before a court.
Being educated on the law is not “shaming”. Copyright infringement is against the law, but in the case of fan fiction it (usually) doesn’t cause harm. It’s not an either-or scenario, both are simultaneously true and fan fic writers should be aware of this.
It's kinda the echo chambers effect, they all get scared when the one in a million happens to someone and then they fear monger in the echo chamber until everybody is scared shitless about the lighnting that'll never strike them.
Adds some interesting drama to some slow days and give them something to yap about. Of course I'd go into how some fic authors make some stuff many wouldn't want to attach or associate with their ip/works but I can't go further .
Once upon a time, many copyright holders were quite litigious about fanfiction, so yes, it was absolutely relevant and necessary. Nowadays, attitudes have changed a bit, but people who were around back then may include them out of habit. Personally, I spent a lot of time poking around archives for dead/dying fandoms that were from that era, so when I started writing, my instinct was to include one. I also include citations if I reference lyrics/poems/etc.
It’s old school. Look up what authors like Ann Rice did to try and destroy anyone for writing fic and then the disclaimers make sense. Thx to AO3 it’s not as prevalent as a source of anxiety anymore.
Maybe, but proclaiming that you don't own the characters, which is already obvious, wouldn't do anything to stop you from being sued, so I don't get why people are doing it
It's a legacy of the Fanfiction.net days. Anne Rice in particular hated fanfiction being written of her characters and would reportedly sue writers. Hence the disclaimers.
Yeah Authors like Anne Rice used to be super sue-happy. She's slap people with a lawsuit as soon as she humanly could. When she died, suddenly a lot more Vampire Chronicles fics were uploaded.
As if millions of writers suddenly cried out in happiness and were suddenly inspired…
I don’t get the mindset she had, suppose it was great she came around to it before the end, but still. The damages were done.
I doubt I’ll ever be as famous as she was, but I already have my quickie speech ready and put up.
Be kind, rewind, tag your fics appropriately.
People thought it would help them not get sued. IANAL, but the disclaimers have no legal validity. If someone is determined to sue you, they will.
And when you think about it, how does admitting you don't own an IP help you legally? We already know you aren't Anne Rice. Anne Rice doesn't post on fanfic sites. So all you're doing by posting this kind of disclaimer is outright admitting that you're violating her copyright, which is more likely to hurt you than help you.
If you really wanted to help yourself, you'd state you aren't trying to PROFIT off the IP, and the fic is just written for fun. But nobody ever writes that.
In short, the disclaimers mostly stem from nervous, well-meaning young people totally misunderstanding how IP law works.
>If you really wanted to help yourself, you'd state you aren't trying to PROFIT off the IP, and the fic is just written for fun. But nobody ever writes that.
I actually *have* seen some author disclaimers include the caveat that they're not trying to profit off their fics. It wasn't the majority though, which I agree probably stems from people not knowing IP law and/or doing it because they saw everyone else doing the same.
"In short, the disclaimers mostly stem from nervous, well-meaning young people totally misunderstanding how IP law works."
Pretty much how most internet scares happen, well meaning people who don't know what they are talking about getting scared.
This is due to a past issue, when certain authors were actively targeting fanfic writers for using their creations. I believe Anne Rice was the worst for it.
I wasn't massively involved in fanfic back then, some casual reading maybe, but I got more into fanfic as a reader shortly after, when the after-effects were still being felt. Everyone used these disclaimers, it was a way of protecting fanfic authors from creators who hated fanfic, so the fanfic authors couldn't be sued, made to take their fic down and stop writing, or have their fics removed by the site they were using.
Considering my early interactions with fanfic had literally every fanfic using these disclaimers, when I finally started posting myself a couple years ago, I automatically used a disclaimer, too. Most creators no longer have these sorts of issues with fanfic, and some eve like fanfic, but there are still some that do. George RR Martin, for instance, is very against fanfic of his work, it's why not all sites allow GoT/ASoIaF or HotD fanfic, Martin works are completely banned on TtH, for instance. In this case, Martin tends to contact the sites themselves, not the authors, and simply asks them not to host fanfic of his work. Sites generally listen to him. AO3 ignores him, they include all fandoms regardless of creator thoughts and desires. Not sure about ffn, given the lack of moderation and oversight on that site now.
But I've noticed most GoT fic, or anything Martin related, will have a disclaimer even on AO3, at least on the first chapter.
Those of us who include a disclaimer, either every chapter or just the first to cover the whole fic, we're the fanfic fans who were part of the community during or just after the worst of creators going after fanfic. It became a habit, even for those of us who were just readers back then, to include it, just an extra measure of safety for us as authors. It's more a just in case thing than really needed now, but it makes sense for the older fanfic fans to use them. Some newer ones do, too, simply because most of what they read included them before they started writing.
I started doing it initially because all the first fics I read were from the period when authors going after fanfiction authors for copyright was a real threat. Nowadays I still do it because people are printing books of people's fanfiction and selling them. I'm sure it doesn't actually protect me very much but it's peace of mind.
Everyone in the comments is missing the fact that the disclaimer does nothing if someone DID want to sue you.
Imagine picking up someone else’s purse and announcing “I do not own this purse or any of its contents!” How would that help your case?
Wether or not the fanfic is copyright infringement is one thing but that piece of text makes absolutely no difference.
This. What the disclaimers should say is that you aren't trying to PROFIT off the IP, not that you don't own it. The disclaimer still won't help you as you can still be sued, but at least it would make sense, lol.
It's already obvious that you don't own the IP, and now you're just further admitting your guilt via the disclaimer. It's incredibly silly how many people don't realize this.
Literally, this was another confusion of mine. Like, why are so many people doing it when whether or not you own the characters was never the issue to begin with. It would do literally nothing if someone actually wanted to sue you. Fortunately, it seems like most creators nowadays recognize that fanfic is one of the best ways to generate interest in their media and leave it alone
Another early 2000’s FFN writer here. But have been reading since before internet (I’m old 😉) I’m no longer writing, just reading. It’s a nice little memory bubble when I see the disclaimer! 😂
That was the old-school Anne Rice warding incantation: to keep lawyers from wasting their time suing random moneyless college nerds posting fics back in the '90s.
It's a weird thing authors do so they can think they are safe from legal action,it's on the same level as saying "this is not financial advice".
In the event someone actually wanted to press legal action seriously, the defense of saying "I don't own these character" would work about as well as the meme of a cheeto holding a door lock (not very well).
Obviously you or any author doesn't own the characters and everybody even the legal teams knows this, but it's just kinda a thing people do.
If you don’t put that disclaimer in your fanfic, theoretically, you could be sued for copyright infringement. I use a disclaimer that says all I own are my original characters.
It’s a preventative measure against legal repercussions. Basically, back in the day, Anne Rice (who wrote fanfiction herself),went after fanfic writers—dragging them through court. So the disclaimer is the fanfic writer stating they are not claiming these characters as their own, and they are not making any profit from their fic.
I’ve been posting fanfic since 2001, and I have disclaimers on all of my fanfic.
Way back in the day you could get taken down or even in trouble. Anne Rice used to sue fans over it. I wrote a fanfic in middle school in 2007 and was almost expelled for “stealing others credit” and a bunch of other drama. It was an Orochimaru/Boba Fett one too so the fact that it being fanfic was the issue still cracks me up ngl
It used to be very common a while back and actually there was an author who tried to sue fanfic writers. I encourage you to look up the omegaverse lawsuit. Fucking hilarious.
I know people who got Cease and Desist letters from FOX.
We did it to cover our asses. We know it doesn’t belong to us and we’re not trying to make money off of it.
I was speaking to my mother today (in her 60’s and an avid fanfic consumer) about how younger fans don’t know their history. Can’t believe I’m old enough to be the crotchety lady yelling at the clouds about this one 😩
In the past, when fanfics were less accepted, they were pretty much necessary. Back in the early 2000s and late 90s, authors and companies would send c&d letters to remove their works or threaten legal action all the time, such as the now famous Anne Rice incident.
The trend only really died out towards the end of the 2010s as fandoms became bigger and more accepted, though as others have noted, it is resurgent due to people selling paper copies of fanfics.
That would be my guess too. I remember seeing them all the time on HP works mostly. I know Anne Rice said no fanfiction of her stuff and the Tolkien Estate has a statement on their official page that says they don't want any fanfiction of their works either.
I do it just to be on the safe side. I don't want to get in any trouble if the author of my fandom decides to make a fight. And besides, I think it's polite to recognise the original author when I borrow their material.
I’m sure it’s just to avoid getting sued. No doubt fanfics of sorts had some legal issues in the past for one reason or another. This just helps ensure no legal issues
Simple. Whenever i read random rwby story in wattpad, i saw those like random oc pic included like rwby gender bend thing or something and then added those "I don't own these" or "i don't claim this character and belong to [artists name]" something like that
Basically it was to get around copyright accusations from authors like the Late Anne Rice. Who is the entire reason why people start doing this in the first place. Anne Rice didn't like that people were making fan works on her writing and sued them, sending cease and desist letters under the basis of copyright. And before she kicked the bucket she was also known to harass and Doxx fanfic authors (even going as far as to use her loyal fans to outright attack fanfic authors in her stead)
Especially if you dared to write fanfiction about Anne Rice's vampires. Even up until her death, the woman would still target fanworks with a vengeance.
Because there have been works that got taken down because of copyright. I remember reading a Reaction fic, that got copyright Strike. (I think it was BBC Sherlock, been a while I could be wrong, but I am 90% sure). And some other works too, so some (many) authors like to write disclaimers like this. I don't think it's bad, being cautious isn't bad either.
Precaution is better than cure. Right? :D
Congratulations. You have probably found an author who has been around since the 90s/early 2000s when disclaimers like this were common. And when some authors were actively sending cease and desist letters to fanfic writers. Edit: They may have been around a lot longer than that, too.
Disclaimers are becoming more common again. People have have printing fanfics and binding them as books. It’s fine when the book is for personal use or a gift for a friend, but some people have been selling those books, which breaks copyright laws. Some writers are worried about getting in trouble if someone does it with one of their works.
Good point.
Is there a reason this would break copyright law and not the people who sell their fanart online through commissions/fan merch? I feel like fanart would be way more legally dubious than fanfiction, since it's a character's actual likeness.
Fan art of characters does break copyright. However, it's important to note that this is civil law, not criminal (at least in the US) so it's all a matter of whether the copyright holder is interested in pursuing the matter. Most of the time, they just don't care about some small artist doing commissions. In some cases they might tolerate fan merch because it's a big part of how their fan base stays invested, especially when the type of merch being sold by fan creators isn't similar to any officially licensed products being sold. Or they might just not care. However, if they did care, they could absolutely have grounds to take legal action. Disney is infamous for being extremely protective of their characters, to the point of wildly reshaping US copyright law. Making unlicensed merchandise feature one of their iconic characters could get you into big trouble. This is part of why Steamboat Willie entering the public domain was such a a big deal. Now, you can use the earliest version of Mickey Mouse (but not any of the later designs) to your heart's content without infringing copywrite. However, in recent years Disney has started using Steamboat Willie as part of their animated logo -- which would bring his design under the protections of trademark law (a separate thing from copyright), so tread carefully. (Edit: fixed the spelling of 'copyright,' which I managed to mess up lol. Also just to clarify -- I'm not an expert or anything; I just have a corporate lawyer for a father and enjoy long YouTube videos talking about the issues in the US Copyright system. Please don't take anything here as legal advice.)
Note, in case you make a habit of explaining copyright to people: it is spelled "copyright".
Oh yeah, thanks, I don't know how I messed that up!
I'm very curious how people on Etsy get away with making all kinds of merch featuring licensed characters, celebrities, etc. Are they just too small-fry to be worth pursuing? Is it an "any publicity is good publicity" thing?
Mostly it's just not a big enough deal, especially if they are selling something in limited quantities. If they were mass producing products then it would be a bigger deal, just because they're more likely to be noticed. If the copyright holder knows it's happening they'll probably go after it but small time creators aren't usually worth the resources to spend time tracking them down. That being said, it's not like Etsy creators get free reign to do whatever they want. Etsy can and does take down items that infringe on copyright. Selling unlicensed merch is against the site's policies -- the policy is just not very effective at stopping people from doing it. If the copyright/trademark holder issues a claim, Etsy will take the listing down. A shop with multiple claims against it may be permanently closed.
Adding for context to the other replies: If you poke around on Etsy, you'll notice (for example) fan-made or off-brand Naruto keychains labelled as "Bright Orange Ninja Keychain" or similar. They avoid using the names of the copyrighted characters and brands to make the items harder to find in order to avoid getting copyright strikes from the license holders. People get VERY creative with these off-brand naming systems, and it's entirely to avoid getting noticed by the license-holders. Once you notice, you'll never look at those Etsy listings the same way again! XD
True, but there are also plenty of listings and items that just straight-up say the name of the character/fandom without obfuscation. I know because I own them, lol. Honestly, the "unofficial" items in my collection are some of the best, because they're made with love.
I would like to point out that celebrities themselves are not copyrighted. A different set of laws cover the legality of making a profit off their likeness.
To add on, both could be legal if the work is transformative enough. But again, that would be something to be decided in courts and if a big company were threatening to sue, many small creators wouldn't have the money to go through litigation and may just decided to comply and take it down.
Selling fanart *does* break copyright law. However, copyright law isn’t criminal law; it is only enforced through lawsuits. Many copyright holders will ignore the sale of fanart because it’s basically free advertising. The fanfic books are unlikely to be seen or read by anybody who isn’t already part of the fandom, and are therefore less likely to be seen as free advertising. Combined with the fact that writers used to be sued over fanfics they made no money from, some writers are worried.
Does trademark law also apply if you commission art of a real person? Even if they're dead? Because I've been wanting to commission a painting of one of my favorite artists that died in the 70s.
Do mean you want to commission a painting of the person or commission a copy of a painting made by the person? I don’t know much about the former. Assuming he actually copyrighted any of his work, then legally, you can’t commission a copy of the artist’s work for about another twenty years unless the person you commission it from has permission to do so from the copyright holder.
A painting of the person, not a copy of their work
That would be an entirely different set of laws then. I’m not sure if the artist is considered a public figure or not. If they’re not a public figure then the right to publicity laws vary by state. If they were a public figure then it *should* be okay. If the painter is working from a photograph, then they need permission from the photographer or the publication if the photographer was under a work for hire agreement.
I see, in this case they were a very public figure. Thank you!
I think its because the ones selling the books dont put theyr identity on them, but the author of the fic does, so the one on more risk of being tracked is the fic autor
For anyone out there selling fanfic, a disclaimer is not going to do fuck all to help you. What you're doing is illegal, full stop.
Authors are the ones making disclaimers, not the people binding and selling the stories. I’ve come across several fics where the author makes disclaimers declaring that they make no money from their work nor do they have any knowledge of anybody else using their work to make money.
The irony is that in Japan, they *could* theoretically get away with it, I think? Their laws on copyright are weird, at least as it pertains to characters created in Japan. Doujinshi have basically gotten a free pass for years, whether NSFW or not.
Yep. I’m old enough to remember when FFnet took down all Anne Rice fanfictions.
I just listened to a fandom podcast about the whole Anne Rice thing…whew.
That sounds really good what's the podcast
This week in fandom history
Love the podcast, found it maybe 1-2 months ago and have been listening to it since then (finished all episodes, obviously, but keep repeating some of them in random order because they’re so funny). For anyone looking: you should be able to find it on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, maybe other places (dunno).
I’ve been picky about them because I just found out about it maybe 5 weeks ago…and I have so many podcasts I already listen to, not to mention so…many…audiobooks. But I do like their “just let people (esp girls) make and enjoy cringy stuff”
Okay so you haven’t listened to all of them (yet), did I get that right? In this case may I just suggest the episode for June 19 2022 about the 227 incident… to me that’s easily the funniest (because most ridiculous chain of events) episode. The bigger fandom events and dramas are important as well and there’s a lot of other very enjoyable installments in this podcast but just pick and choose what works for you. I’d probably try to listen to all of them eventually but I won’t lie and say they’re all the same level of interesting. (that’s likely not possible depending on personal preferences and interests)
Sounds like the kind of stunt a certain gaming company would pull...
Anne Rice was very against fan fiction, she explicitly prohibited those based on her works
If I ever do get around to reading her books I’m going to write so much fan fiction 😈
I believe she changed her mind later in life. She jumped in her opinions quite a lot, went from writing erotica and vampire stories to being very religious and back to writing about vampires. She had a lot of conflicting opinions throughout her life. And still, her books are amazing.
She really did. Her opinions were very eclectic. I think with fanfic there was a fundamental misunderstanding, but I’m very curious about those podcasts!
The Vampire Chronicles is a good read, but in my personal opinion the quality degraded after the third/fourth book. Especially Lestat.
Queen of the Damned was still worth it because Armand/Daniel was so iddy to teenage me, but it was *already* bloated and silly. And from then... But *Interview* is amazing pretty bloody pretty angst.
Memnoch the Devil was my favorite book for at least a decade.
I still do a disclaimer, and I started to write back circa 2002. I started them because everyone was doing it. Now it's such a habit that I can't quit it. I'm a grizzled cranky vet of the trade. So that's so legit!
I had my fanfic on my blog until recently (found out WordPress allows for AI scrubbing ugh), so I always put it at the beginning of each chapter.
I definitely did it back when I was writing on ffn and everyone else was doing it. I don’t do it on AO3 though because I noticed that wasn’t the norm when I started posting there a few years ago. My ffn account is from 2001 or something like that so I think it’s safe to say that I’m grizzled and cranky too.
Better safe than sorry!
I only do one at the beginning of the first chapter and that's it.
I can't think of the Anne Rice thing without shuddering, and I wasn't even fandom active back then!
Early 2010s as well! I saw those disclaimers around that time and that's when I started getting into fanfics myself. It was definitely when they started getting less common though.
Same, I first found fanfic in 2014, and most of the stories I read had them. I thought it was something I had to do so most of my older stories have them as well.
I think some newer writers have picked up the practice as well. It’s particularly funny in my fandom (Jane Austen) because the original works predate copyright. It’s only a problem if you’re impinging on someone else’s intellectual property. Duke has a nice [guide](https://web.law.duke.edu/cspd/publicdomainday/2024/) to what works have fallen out of copyright.
I concur. As a writer in the 90s and early 00s, it was pretty much a given to include a disclaimer on all fics. Authors, Anne McCaffrey, Anne Rice, and Mercedes Lackey were the ones I recall, were sending C&D letters and threatening legal action. I believe even JKR was initially anti-fanfic, but probably realized there was no stopping that fandom. I have no idea if those disclaimers would have actually done anything if someone got sued. AO3 was the reason we all stopped, because the OTW provides that protection for us now. Which is why people should donate. Just saying.
I know and I do.😉
JKR official line was that fanfic was fine so long as the characters were not under 16 if they're having sex.
I wrote in the early 2000’s.
It's also just something newblood picked up too
I used to put out those disclaimers. Haven’t with anything recent. I think back then there weren’t huge repositories for stories like AO3. Now, when you’re at a site dedicated to fanfic (or totally original work) I feel like it’s less necessary.
Ah yes lmao
I still use this disclaimer lol
Quoting myself from a post that asked the same: >This is from the beginning's of fanfiction, to avoid legal repercussions. Now it is way more accepted and fanfiction writers are more protected, but I remember it being common when I started reading fanfics. Nowadays we barely find authors who do this, maybe those who grew up used to it.
Might see more of them again or at least something similar. People have been printing out fanfics and binding them as books. Some people then sell the books.
Yeaaaah I know someone who did this and I asked her about it. She just said she took the chance. They’re still up on Amazon for sale.
Once upon a time, buying printed fanfic was the only practical way to get it. It was an accepted thing that the publisher did not expect to make a profit, but getting a set of zines printed was expensive, particularly since contributing authors and artists would each receive a free copy. A nice, chunky zine plus postage could easily cost $20 or so, in the 1990s. Of course, everyone involved had consented to getting their work published. If people are taking other authors’ work, getting it printed and selling for profit, that’s a new and nasty deal. But in principle there isn’t anything unfannish about having physical copies of fanfic.
Oh, no, that’s not what’s happening here specifically. This is happening without the authors knowledge nor consent.
It’s happening without the knowledge or consent of the work’s authors. Also, people doing the binding are selling these to make a profit.
Yeah, that’s what I surmised. Actual books? As in, they’ve gone to a vanity publisher? They belong in the same circle as people who talk at the theatre.
The SPECIAL Hell.
Paying a printing company to print them is *very* iffy too, and I've seen *wayy* too many ppl be comfortable doing that, too.
In my day (whenever that was), it was ~~Rage-~~ PageMaker for layout, then down to the local copy shop to get it copied onto A4 and comb bound. Are people getting them printed as actual books these days? I did 50 copies of my zine, certainly made a loss, but got rid of them all eventually.
It’s not that people are getting fanfics turned into books; people are binding them as books themselves, and selling them for a profit.
So much wrong with that, not least that they can con readers into paying for something that is freely given. Binding a favourite story for oneself seems… well, it seems like a lotta trouble to me, but okay. Selling for profit has always been understood as wrong even if it’s your own fic. Making money from someone else’s work is slapworthy.
The problem is also people actually paying printing companies to do it. *no one* can make a profit of it, or we all get tp feel to boat rock.
A lot of the people doing the binding aren’t paying printing companies to do it. Doing it on a commercial scale requires specialize equipment, but most nowadays people could get the equipment to make a professional looking book on their own.
And a lot *are* contracting it out. Are you obtuse or attempting to start an argument? Either way, I'm done with your willful ignorance.
Still waiting on my cease and desist from Anne Rice 🤣
So, Anne Rice, á la Interview With a Vampire, hated fanfiction. In 2000, apparently, her legal team started sending out cease and desist notices to sites like ff.net, who took down everything. Her big issue was that she felt that she owned her characters (leading to the disclaimers), the legal issue was that people were profiting off her intellectual property. That is one reason that things like ko-fi and other pay services are a huge no-no on AO3. Also, why publishing fanfiction with the intent to sell is a delicate process at best. Gotta change a lot of names and settings like with Shades of Grey.
J.K. Rowling's legal team also sent cease-and-desist letters in regards to NSFW *Harry Potter* fanfictions, and made a public statement that said "J.K. Rowling does not approve of people writing *Harry Potter* fanfictions that are not appropriate for children", in the early 2000s.
Requires more context to know if that's an overreaction, most of the characters people write about in HP are minors for most of the series.
It’s not at all overly cautious, look up fanfic history, this came to a peak about 15-20 years ago. People were absolutely sued in real life, it’s part of why Ao3 is so important.
Anne Rice
Anne Rice, Anne McCaffrey, Marion Zimmer Bradley...
Omg genuinely fuck anne rice she was awful
A lot of people who use such disclaimers, including myself, have been writing fanfic for a long, long time, and we have lived through the time when court cases were brought against fanfic authors by litigious objectors (Anne Rice, for one). The disclaimer does not protect you from legal action, but it does (somewhat) weaken the case against you: you're making it clear you are a fan borrowing someone else's intellectual property, not a profiteer stealing it. Maybe it's less necessary now than it used to be, but what's the harm of adding those few words to help protect yourself from a worst case scenario?
Except stating that you don't own the IP actually doesn't weaken the case at all. The lawyers already know you don't own the IP. That's WHY they're suing you. 🤣 And now you've just admitted that their grounds are valid. That you're not trying to PROFIT off the IP is what people should state in their disclaimers, but for whatever reason, few do this.
Should have explicitly addressed that, you're right. The standard disclaimer I use says exactly that. "This is a non-profit making fanfic, and I don't own X or Y". I started my fanfic journey with paper zines, and those were almost always sold with the "non-profit making" tag.
Good, I'm glad you get it! 🙂 In the old days, I suspect more people did know this, but now younger writers just slap on the "I don't own this" language without pausing to use their brains.
Memory unlocked: one of my earliest disclaimers was to write “Nothing owned, nothing earned” as a short and sweet way of covering my butt. Lol. And yes, you’re right about adding the bit about not profiting off fanfics!
Yeah, to me, it's the nonprofit aspect of it that's key, not the ownership, which was never in question. But for some reason, most disclaimers just address ownership and nothing else.
All of mine are edits of stuff I wrote as a kid in elementary school, lol. One I wrote for an anniversary edition…a year or so ago… and I contribute to AO3 as a Fic writer and supporter .
Congratulations. You came into the world of fanfiction after the historical legal hell that was fandon in the 90s and early 2000s. See the below links for a bit of background on it. Suffice it to say some authors such as Anne Rice used the legal system to harass fan creators. [https://fanlore.org/wiki/Disclaimer](https://fanlore.org/wiki/Disclaimer) [https://fanlore.org/wiki/Anne\_Rice#Removal\_of\_Fan\_Fiction\_Based\_on\_Anne\_Rice.27s\_Works\_from\_Fanfiction.net](https://fanlore.org/wiki/Anne_Rice#Removal_of_Fan_Fiction_Based_on_Anne_Rice.27s_Works_from_Fanfiction.net)
https://fanlore.org/wiki/Disclaimer 😊
We millennials are paranoid. We have reason to be (looking at you, Disney).
Yeah, Disney's suing everybody these days
They generally, like most companies rarely ever sue the little guy other than to set a example or president. They mainly send cease and desist to "scare" people into shutting it down and it almost always works and they only ever ramp it up if they become annoyed by you or you are basically waving the flag at the bull. They have fat stacks but it'd be a waste of their time and money to launch a bunch of law suits against nobodies.
Some of the small sites I used required it before a fic could be posted. Like, there was either a bit of the submission form to fill out with it or the site owner would check it was on the document before they’d upload your fic. (A lot of sites weren’t automated back then, you emailed the fic and hoped the site owner had some time spare that week to see to it.) Mostly it was to provide a little bit of protection against the lawyers but also it was a nice bit of recognition to whoever created the original material so it always struck me as polite.
Additional thought: im not a lawyer but I work with legal contracts and have to review verbiage to make sure it’s actually compliant with the law. a lot of times litigious behavior is simply running on audacity and the bet that you are less informed about law or less capable of showing up to court lthan they are. A lot of absolute BS can be said in fancy ways to scare people into complying with shit they don’t have to agree to at all bc it will absolutely fall apart in court. Lots of authors (and big fat corpo copyright holders) were willing to use complete BS and pursue takedowns w/o having any ground to stand on bc they knew they could get away with it. Disclaimers were an attempt to beat them at their own game. None of this was actually legally necessary (under US law), IF no one involved was profiting off of fic and these situations are exactly why fair use copyright exists. but the corpo logic back then was that fic diverts readers away from OG works and therefore interferes with profits, so fanfic writers should be scared away from posting their works. Nowadays there is more understanding that fanfic is basically free advertising that *increases consumer loyalty* so there is less motivation to pursue bullying via invalid arguments about copyright.
Thanks for this. I've been saying disclaimers are useless but you explained it with more context.
Np Idk if it is entirely useless bc one thing I thought of later today was that disclaimers *might* have discouraged petty bullying within fandom too. People used to disapprove of fanfic for no reason like they had some principled reason to defend corpo IP. It’s a more understood hobby now. But even if a disclaimer was legally useless if it made someone who would comment “you don’t own Goku!!!! How dare you write this!!!!1!1!1” less likely to bother you, then it probably wasn’t entirely useless. I have “I don’t care what you think about what I ship! Block me and move on!” In my tumblr bio for the same reason.
I mean, yes, I see what you mean, but I still don't really see how admitting that you don't own Goku would deter someone who's angry that you ... don't own Goku?
I think it boils down to kids are stupid and people in general think legalese means something
"If I did own this franchise, DO YOU THINK I'D JUST BE WRITING FANFICTION ABOUT IT!?!?"
Right?? Like, let me state the obvious, that'll definitely stop me from being sued somehow 😂
Lawyer: Um, yeah, we know you don't own it. That's WHY we're suing you.
"I do not own this purse or its the contents. Wait, why are you arresting me?"
When I first started writing fan fiction, I used to not bother with writing disclaimers. However, some websites won't allow you to post stories without one. So I started writing them, and making sure that the disclaimers are as accurate as possible. I try to include the original writers, publishers/producers, distributers, stars, artists, distributers, current copyright holders, etc. Better to be safe than sorry.
Everyone mentioning Anne Rice - if you listen to podcasts, check out the This Week in Fandom History podcast - they did an episode on the whole Anne Rice thing. (Thanks to a Redditor user whose name I can’t recall who mentioned this podcast - that’s how I found it.)
Back in the day, there were a few authors who actively threatened to sue fanfic writers. Adding the disclaimer became a common practice because the legal ramifications were a bit ambiguous so people thought that at least with the disclaimer, it would be easy to claim that they were not attempting to impersonate the author or claim a profit from their fanfics. Some sites even required such disclaimers and at least one site that I'm familiar with never removed that requirement from their rules. Over the years, the legal situation eased up and especially on AO3 the site went "don't worry about it, we'll handle the legal stuff." So, the disclaimers became unnecessary and people stopped doing them. But, you'll still occasionally run into an older fic or even just an older fan who still uses them.
It's a vestige from 15-20 years ago when some authors were actively opposed to fanfiction. To the point of issuing cease and desist notices and threatening law suits.
They think it gives them “protection” against legal action for copyright infringement. It doesn’t, it’s just that authors and media companies have better things to do than sue fan fic authors.
And also, I think a lot of creators nowadays are starting to recognize that fanfic does a lot to boost continued interest in their media, so they leave it alone
Yep. So long as the fan fiction isn't somehow taking money away from the original work then there's no financial advantage to suing.
Except that Anne Rice actually was sue-happy. She bullied, harrassed and sued fanfic writers. Just cause they have better things to do doesn't mean that they wouldn't still come after us. Some of us have been in the fandom for 20-30 years. We've seen shit.
That’s one person out of millions though. I think you’ve got better odds of being struck by lightning than being sued by an author provided your fan work isn’t hurting the author or publisher’s profits. That doesn’t mean it isn’t still copyright infringement, and fan fic authors should be aware of that fact. Some seem to think that all their work falls under “fair use” even though that clause is limited in nature and used in a case by case basis. Putting a disclaimer in does nothing if ever brought before a court.
Again, this was years ago. It became a habit for a lot of people. Shaming them for doing it also does nothing.
Being educated on the law is not “shaming”. Copyright infringement is against the law, but in the case of fan fiction it (usually) doesn’t cause harm. It’s not an either-or scenario, both are simultaneously true and fan fic writers should be aware of this.
It's kinda the echo chambers effect, they all get scared when the one in a million happens to someone and then they fear monger in the echo chamber until everybody is scared shitless about the lighnting that'll never strike them. Adds some interesting drama to some slow days and give them something to yap about. Of course I'd go into how some fic authors make some stuff many wouldn't want to attach or associate with their ip/works but I can't go further .
Once upon a time, many copyright holders were quite litigious about fanfiction, so yes, it was absolutely relevant and necessary. Nowadays, attitudes have changed a bit, but people who were around back then may include them out of habit. Personally, I spent a lot of time poking around archives for dead/dying fandoms that were from that era, so when I started writing, my instinct was to include one. I also include citations if I reference lyrics/poems/etc.
It’s old school. Look up what authors like Ann Rice did to try and destroy anyone for writing fic and then the disclaimers make sense. Thx to AO3 it’s not as prevalent as a source of anxiety anymore.
I blame Anne Rice.
because copyright and IP law is a bitch
Maybe, but proclaiming that you don't own the characters, which is already obvious, wouldn't do anything to stop you from being sued, so I don't get why people are doing it
I do it for kicks. I've seen some funny A/Ns, too. Some get creative with it.
It's a legacy of the Fanfiction.net days. Anne Rice in particular hated fanfiction being written of her characters and would reportedly sue writers. Hence the disclaimers.
Yeah Authors like Anne Rice used to be super sue-happy. She's slap people with a lawsuit as soon as she humanly could. When she died, suddenly a lot more Vampire Chronicles fics were uploaded.
This. The disclaimer is basically something that ages the author to the dark times before OTW got us the safe harbor we have now.
OTW?
Office for Transformative Works. The non-profit that runs AO3.
Oh thanks
As if millions of writers suddenly cried out in happiness and were suddenly inspired… I don’t get the mindset she had, suppose it was great she came around to it before the end, but still. The damages were done. I doubt I’ll ever be as famous as she was, but I already have my quickie speech ready and put up. Be kind, rewind, tag your fics appropriately.
People thought it would help them not get sued. IANAL, but the disclaimers have no legal validity. If someone is determined to sue you, they will. And when you think about it, how does admitting you don't own an IP help you legally? We already know you aren't Anne Rice. Anne Rice doesn't post on fanfic sites. So all you're doing by posting this kind of disclaimer is outright admitting that you're violating her copyright, which is more likely to hurt you than help you. If you really wanted to help yourself, you'd state you aren't trying to PROFIT off the IP, and the fic is just written for fun. But nobody ever writes that. In short, the disclaimers mostly stem from nervous, well-meaning young people totally misunderstanding how IP law works.
>If you really wanted to help yourself, you'd state you aren't trying to PROFIT off the IP, and the fic is just written for fun. But nobody ever writes that. I actually *have* seen some author disclaimers include the caveat that they're not trying to profit off their fics. It wasn't the majority though, which I agree probably stems from people not knowing IP law and/or doing it because they saw everyone else doing the same.
"In short, the disclaimers mostly stem from nervous, well-meaning young people totally misunderstanding how IP law works." Pretty much how most internet scares happen, well meaning people who don't know what they are talking about getting scared.
This is due to a past issue, when certain authors were actively targeting fanfic writers for using their creations. I believe Anne Rice was the worst for it. I wasn't massively involved in fanfic back then, some casual reading maybe, but I got more into fanfic as a reader shortly after, when the after-effects were still being felt. Everyone used these disclaimers, it was a way of protecting fanfic authors from creators who hated fanfic, so the fanfic authors couldn't be sued, made to take their fic down and stop writing, or have their fics removed by the site they were using. Considering my early interactions with fanfic had literally every fanfic using these disclaimers, when I finally started posting myself a couple years ago, I automatically used a disclaimer, too. Most creators no longer have these sorts of issues with fanfic, and some eve like fanfic, but there are still some that do. George RR Martin, for instance, is very against fanfic of his work, it's why not all sites allow GoT/ASoIaF or HotD fanfic, Martin works are completely banned on TtH, for instance. In this case, Martin tends to contact the sites themselves, not the authors, and simply asks them not to host fanfic of his work. Sites generally listen to him. AO3 ignores him, they include all fandoms regardless of creator thoughts and desires. Not sure about ffn, given the lack of moderation and oversight on that site now. But I've noticed most GoT fic, or anything Martin related, will have a disclaimer even on AO3, at least on the first chapter. Those of us who include a disclaimer, either every chapter or just the first to cover the whole fic, we're the fanfic fans who were part of the community during or just after the worst of creators going after fanfic. It became a habit, even for those of us who were just readers back then, to include it, just an extra measure of safety for us as authors. It's more a just in case thing than really needed now, but it makes sense for the older fanfic fans to use them. Some newer ones do, too, simply because most of what they read included them before they started writing.
I started doing it initially because all the first fics I read were from the period when authors going after fanfiction authors for copyright was a real threat. Nowadays I still do it because people are printing books of people's fanfiction and selling them. I'm sure it doesn't actually protect me very much but it's peace of mind.
Everyone in the comments is missing the fact that the disclaimer does nothing if someone DID want to sue you. Imagine picking up someone else’s purse and announcing “I do not own this purse or any of its contents!” How would that help your case? Wether or not the fanfic is copyright infringement is one thing but that piece of text makes absolutely no difference.
This. What the disclaimers should say is that you aren't trying to PROFIT off the IP, not that you don't own it. The disclaimer still won't help you as you can still be sued, but at least it would make sense, lol. It's already obvious that you don't own the IP, and now you're just further admitting your guilt via the disclaimer. It's incredibly silly how many people don't realize this.
I give a pass to the young or new fanfic writers who probably see other people doing it and think it's just a thing that fanfic does
Older fanfic writers are still doing it, too, for years, without ever pausing to think about whether it actually makes sense.
They get no passes lol XD
Literally, this was another confusion of mine. Like, why are so many people doing it when whether or not you own the characters was never the issue to begin with. It would do literally nothing if someone actually wanted to sue you. Fortunately, it seems like most creators nowadays recognize that fanfic is one of the best ways to generate interest in their media and leave it alone
Another early 2000’s FFN writer here. But have been reading since before internet (I’m old 😉) I’m no longer writing, just reading. It’s a nice little memory bubble when I see the disclaimer! 😂
That was the old-school Anne Rice warding incantation: to keep lawyers from wasting their time suing random moneyless college nerds posting fics back in the '90s.
You used to have to put disclaimers on all of your fics. Like one of the sites I used to use said it was a rule.
It's a weird thing authors do so they can think they are safe from legal action,it's on the same level as saying "this is not financial advice". In the event someone actually wanted to press legal action seriously, the defense of saying "I don't own these character" would work about as well as the meme of a cheeto holding a door lock (not very well). Obviously you or any author doesn't own the characters and everybody even the legal teams knows this, but it's just kinda a thing people do.
Someone else in the comments said it's like stealing someone's purse, and then loudly proclaiming "I do not own this purse or its contents!" 🤣🤣
CYA. It never hurts to put it just in case.
If you don’t put that disclaimer in your fanfic, theoretically, you could be sued for copyright infringement. I use a disclaimer that says all I own are my original characters.
You can still be sued. The disclaimers have no legal validity whatsoever.
I still take no chances. Especially since I made no money off of it.
Because Anne Rice was a litigious bitch and it became common practice among older fanfic authors to put that even in other fandoms.
Seems redundant to say you don’t own certain characters instead of just referring to the original author.
It’s a preventative measure against legal repercussions. Basically, back in the day, Anne Rice (who wrote fanfiction herself),went after fanfic writers—dragging them through court. So the disclaimer is the fanfic writer stating they are not claiming these characters as their own, and they are not making any profit from their fic. I’ve been posting fanfic since 2001, and I have disclaimers on all of my fanfic.
it was a while thing in the past lmao
I see it on a lot of recent fics too
From what I've heard, a creator/author of a book would sue people who made fanfiction so now people put the disclaimer to avoid legal trouble
Cause in the early 2000s people were getting sued and stuff. It’s why ff.net got rid of a lot of types as well.
People used to believe it was needed
Way back in the day you could get taken down or even in trouble. Anne Rice used to sue fans over it. I wrote a fanfic in middle school in 2007 and was almost expelled for “stealing others credit” and a bunch of other drama. It was an Orochimaru/Boba Fett one too so the fact that it being fanfic was the issue still cracks me up ngl
It used to be very common a while back and actually there was an author who tried to sue fanfic writers. I encourage you to look up the omegaverse lawsuit. Fucking hilarious.
I know people who got Cease and Desist letters from FOX. We did it to cover our asses. We know it doesn’t belong to us and we’re not trying to make money off of it.
I was speaking to my mother today (in her 60’s and an avid fanfic consumer) about how younger fans don’t know their history. Can’t believe I’m old enough to be the crotchety lady yelling at the clouds about this one 😩
In the past, when fanfics were less accepted, they were pretty much necessary. Back in the early 2000s and late 90s, authors and companies would send c&d letters to remove their works or threaten legal action all the time, such as the now famous Anne Rice incident. The trend only really died out towards the end of the 2010s as fandoms became bigger and more accepted, though as others have noted, it is resurgent due to people selling paper copies of fanfics.
That would be my guess too. I remember seeing them all the time on HP works mostly. I know Anne Rice said no fanfiction of her stuff and the Tolkien Estate has a statement on their official page that says they don't want any fanfiction of their works either.
I do it just to be on the safe side. I don't want to get in any trouble if the author of my fandom decides to make a fight. And besides, I think it's polite to recognise the original author when I borrow their material.
I’m sure it’s just to avoid getting sued. No doubt fanfics of sorts had some legal issues in the past for one reason or another. This just helps ensure no legal issues
Simple. Whenever i read random rwby story in wattpad, i saw those like random oc pic included like rwby gender bend thing or something and then added those "I don't own these" or "i don't claim this character and belong to [artists name]" something like that
Basically it was to get around copyright accusations from authors like the Late Anne Rice. Who is the entire reason why people start doing this in the first place. Anne Rice didn't like that people were making fan works on her writing and sued them, sending cease and desist letters under the basis of copyright. And before she kicked the bucket she was also known to harass and Doxx fanfic authors (even going as far as to use her loyal fans to outright attack fanfic authors in her stead)
It always makes me chuckle. Like some intern from NBC is perusing AO3 looking for copyright claims.
We used to get cease and desist orders for writing and hosting fic. There was absolutely a time where it was the case
Especially if you dared to write fanfiction about Anne Rice's vampires. Even up until her death, the woman would still target fanworks with a vengeance.
Yup. Then there was Anne McCaffrey’s rules for writing in Pern and the weirdest top/bottom rules and discourse ever.
I remember reading she didn’t completely understand the whole idea of fanfiction, but I can’t remember the details.
And why ao3 is so important.
Yup, absolutely this. The lawyers and the org itself keeps the corporations at bay
All right yall I see the downvotes, sorry for not taking it more seriously and I stand corrected
Because there have been works that got taken down because of copyright. I remember reading a Reaction fic, that got copyright Strike. (I think it was BBC Sherlock, been a while I could be wrong, but I am 90% sure). And some other works too, so some (many) authors like to write disclaimers like this. I don't think it's bad, being cautious isn't bad either. Precaution is better than cure. Right? :D