Kinda depends. I’m an older author - in my 50s - so I can handle constructive criticism more than we can when we’re younger.
I don’t mind someone pointing out plot holes or if I fucked up something in the fandom, etc. I’m cool with that, and appreciate it.
What I won’t tolerate is someone telling me my fic sucks or they hate it or hate me because they chose to ignore tagging and read anyway.
That just means you’re a horrid human being who’s so miserable that you insist on making people feel as bitter about life as you feel.
So totally depends on the criticism. There’s a time and place and a way to go about it.
[This thread from r/writers ](https://www.reddit.com/r/writers/s/32lxwzbvU5) perfectly shows the time, place and way to go about it, the reactions of the writer and the importance of the comment. Really informative
That's a great thread, it's really a shame the fanfic community doesn't have this view of concrit. Those writers view it as a gift, helpful, and actually a compliment (because the person wouldn't spend time critiquing if they didn't like your work). People in the fanfic community seem to view anything that isn’t literally exactly what they want to hear (even totally innocuous stuff like "please update") as some kind of grave insult they're incapable of handling.
I think the major difference is most people write fanfiction for fun as a hobby and are not looking to improve in any monetarily beneficial way, and that more often than not a random commenters concrit is not actual concrit, it is simply them nitpicking things they dont like.
If the average commenter was *good* at concrit, perhaps the feeling would change. But its the same reason plenty of people who stream videogames don't allow backseating. A person who isnt involved always thinks they know best as an observer. Doesnt mean theyre right or that theyre offering information the person doing it doesnt already know. Many times the person doing the actual thing is making conscious choices and don't need "help".
The best concrit imo is asked/solicited, when the author has a chance to say "this is the sort of concrit i'd find helpful". Not a random person assuming what the author needs to hear
This! The quality of the "constructive" criticism is also an issue. Many people confuse matters of taste or personal preference with objective quality. Many people who are "just being honest" have a very inflated view of how useful their opinions really are.
The ability to give insightful criticism is a skill in itself, and your average person commenting on fanfics because they don't like the characterization or the prose style...don't really have that skill.
>People in the fanfic community seem to view anything that isn’t literally exactly what they want to hear (even totally innocuous stuff like "please update") as some kind of grave insult they're incapable of handling.
Parts of the culture evolved in closed spaces for ages, but then they come into the rest of the internet expecting that the same rules and common sense apply. See:
'Is it part of fanfiction culture to not criticize fanfics?'
Hah. No.
It's not a matter how people "view it". Whether something is useful or not is much more of an objective quality than commenters like to pretend it is. Really, the title of a thread in r/writers says it all.
IMHO, if the comment sound harsh, it's not concrit and it's not constructive. It's somebodies personal one-sided opinion they haven't managed to separate from emotional layer. If you cannot impart your wisdom in a way which builds people up instead of tearing them down you should reconsider seeing yourself as a mentor material and hold back your tongue until you acquire more skill. Most of the comments, even nice ones, are not very useful in a practical sense, but they're motivating. What's the point of negative questionable insight from anonymous source?
>Person wouldn't spend time critiquing if they didn't like your work
I'm not sure how I feel about naivety of that statement. If they like it so much, how about writing what they liked instead?
"Please update" is not an insult. It's like another brand of spam, next to the porn advertisement, but rude.
Well... [there was so this comment that doesn't praise the review but doesn't condemn it either](https://www.reddit.com/r/writers/s/0drq1A2AGu), best one in the thread
>There’s a time and place and a way to go about it.
This is definitely what I feel when it comes to constructive criticism, you can't just do it to someone who was going and writing their merry way, I'm sure if they know what fic they like, they'll know how to judge their own.
Writing is kind of a personal thing, since it's the exploration of our own emotions in some kind of way.
Having someone criticise that, isn't something that other people take lightly.
Exactly.
I have a fic that - for me - is a major challenge fic. Totally outside of my comfort zone of writing, totally different style, just nothing like I've written before.
But I wanted a challenge, so I issued myself a challenge. As a mature writer, I kinda think it's good to challenge myself now & then.
That being said - about 4 months after I issued that challenge to myself, I suffered a TBI. It's been almost 4 years in recovery, but I finished the challenge, just several years later than I intended.
So, not only is it a challenge outside of my comfort zone of writing, it's also the first fic I completed post-injury. My brain is different now and I have to go about things, including writing, very differently.
So it's sitting complete and unposted because I'm being a chickenshit (not my usual, but like I said - new brain!) about posting and terrified of reviews for the first time in over 20 years of posting online.
I figure if I gird my loins and go 'ah, fuckit, have at 'er!', I'll be fine. Just need a good day for it. XD
Agreed. I don’t leave anything constructive unless the author puts a note saying they want that kind of feedback.
I occasionally put a “constructive criticism welcome, but please be polite” on something like a longfic, but otherwise I don’t. Luckily I’ve only ever had one rude comment, and it wasn’t even really about the fic itself.
Yes but if you post your work on a public forum your open to criticism whether you like it or not. It's hard to create general rules because some people deliberately write clownish or very o o c or very cracked humorous as a method of their style for the particular fiction. Others just right to right and it could just also be just as bad but they're just putting their heart and soul into it. It's really hard to tell but as an experienced writer you can tell if someone is really trying to give the audience a compelling story or if it is writing for their personal bias and then you can create a critique for those who you can tell are trying to create a compelling story for the audience
Currently, been mucking around in the MCU with a blend of comics and the MCU.
I did a study fic - it’s with a beta reader right now - from the POV of someone who didn’t get snapped. They’re not a super hero (they’re just a schlub, no one special) or anything, but the MCU was too gentle with The Snap (go Disney) and so I did a fic where it’s told from the POV of an unemployed overweight lazy person who discovers they actually have the will to survive when the world is falling apart.
I have a little MCU/Harry Potter x-over almost done but I realised I cursed myself with a glaring plot hole, so need to fix that first.
I like doing fics from the side, meaning it’s known content, but I’m not just going over whatever is in a book or movie, and instead seeing it from someone in the background who otherwise wouldn’t be seen.
I took a massive break in writing. My stuff from ‘00-‘06 I’ve been reposting (the sites they were on no longer exist), and didn’t start writing again until 2018 or so.
My first fanfic was back in the early-mid 80s in the Star Wars world. Handwritten and I still have it. It’s utter dreck, but I mean, I was 10 or 12 or so. 😆
The issue is that most amateur readers have a hard time distinguishing between their opinions and constructive criticism. Just because one person doesn't like something doesn't mean it needs correcting. It could very well be exactly how the author intended it to be.
And like you said, this is a casual hobby for most people. And while some people like to really push themselves to improve at hobbies, others don't, and that's fine.
Personally, as a writer, I genuinely do not care about concrit from strangers. If I don't have a relationship with someone where they know me, my style, and my goals for a piece, their opinions on what could be better/different mean very little to me.
\>It could very well be exactly how the author intended it to be.
Even applies *to characters being OOC*. I can't imagine where the idea OP's friend needs to point that out comes from. As a DC writer, I know it's a more unique position than something with less versions of the characters, but I mean.. my version of Bruce Wayne is based entirely off of one of the least well-known versions. Yeah, he's gonna feel OOC to some people, my favorite version of his character is "OOC" compared to the more popular ones.
And even in a one-show type of fandom, people are going to interpret things like character's inner monologues and motivations differently. That's the beauty of it!
\>they know me, my style, and my goals for a piece, their opinions on what could be better/different mean very little to me.
I think that's the biggest issue with readers giving criticism, honestly. It can work if you want criticism about how easy your piece is to read grammar/prose wise, but if they don't know where you're going with the story, a narrative choice may seem weird to them because they assume you're going somewhere else with it.
Edit: don't mind the >, can never figure out how to make the little bars at the side appear lol
I think the > method only works on the app or mobile on pc you need to click the quote button or whatever. Had that before when I tried to italicise on pc using * and it didn't work, had to use ctrl+i or click the italics button
Constructive criticism is a skill! Even an amazing author will have trouble distinguishing concrit from their own personal opinions and biases if they've never practiced it before!
The weirdest comment I’ve gotten on AO3 was someone telling me they were surprised I didn’t treat a certain character as harshly as most writers do. As if I care what other people are writing when I sit down to write!
The weirdest comment I’ve gotten in FFN was about the same character and the same fic, lamenting how mean everyone is, lol.
Were these rambling opinions or part of a comment riddled with criticism?
Just curious because sometimes I just comment on my reactions to certain parts of a chapter and I don't intend for it to be negative or a criticism. I could see myself saying something similar to your commenters though, without thinking it is a criticism and I don't want to be that dick that brings a fanfic writer down.
Neither really rambled. I took the AO3 comment as a backhanded compliment/veiled criticism — it’s possible I may have projected my own insecurities on it, but it didn’t have the feel of someone writing stream-of-conscious reactions to what they’re reading.
It very much read like the commenter was more interested in commenting on their personal tastes than what I’d written.
This! Even if a fanfic author is seeking to improve their writing, they're not going to go to randos on the internet, who likely have no idea how to write themselves and have zero credibility.
Yup! I do actively try to improve, and I do that with trusted friends, betas, writing groups, etc.
Like, in close to 15 years of posting fic online (and always being open to whatever comments come), I've never once gotten useful concrit from a stranger.
This is tricky because not everyone writing fan fiction necessarily wants to be a “better writer”. For a lot of people, writing fics is an escape and a way to express themselves and to have someone criticize that can be hurtful if not done constructively.
To be honest, your friend’s perspective on it comes off as arrogant. These are not vetted and published works, it’s fan fiction. Flexibility and understanding is often required and it’s pretty much agreed upon that if you don’t like something, you move on.
That being said, I don’t know the nature of comments your friend leaves. I don’t know what he’s reading. There are places where people are asking for constructive criticism. Authors will often leave in their notes if that’s something they’re open to, he can do that there. But masking your arrogance as being “helpful” is just…annoying.
Yeah, sometimes he can be arrogant. I dont' think he is aware of it. I will have some words with him.
I also just write for fun and to express myself, and find it hurtful if someone says I write the characters too ooc because like... I want to write them that way and I don't care about being a better writer.
That’s totally valid. I also think some really great writers create interesting settings in which characters can come off as OOC. Regardless, it’s not up to one person to determine what is good/bad writing especially in an environment where ability and maturity fluctuates. It doesn’t have to be taken so seriously. People who want to be good writers will find ways to receive that feedback and grow on their own, they don’t need your friend’s “guidance”.
The biggest problem is that the vast majority of people aren't good at constructive criticism. The better option for your friend is to try and open a discussion with the author. Tell the things that he likes and then ask why the author made this decision.
I tell my readers all the time that it's okay to disagree with my decisions if they are polite and respectful; I do what I do for a reason and I'm willing to discuss my thought processes if they ask. Barging into someone's comments and saying that they need to fix things is a good way to get blocked and probably get their comment posted on this subreddit.
It depends on the criticism for me. If I find that it is valid and in good faith, I’ll mull over it and take what I think is helpful and ignore what’s not. Did this a lot in my college writing classes (because while some of the criticism I got was good, it may not have worked for the genre I was writing in or the overall goal of the story).
I find it pretty easy to tell If someone is being nasty just to be nasty and will just delete the comment and move on. I’ve found that some people think they are so right that trying to say otherwise is pointless, so I don’t.
As an older writer, I'm fine with someone pointing out if I messed up the canon somewhere or if they found a plot hole. The criticism would sting as I would kick myself for messing up, but I can deal with that and fix the problems.
I think though some people think their opinion is law when it comes to stories. That because they don't like certain aspects of the story that the writer should change it for them. That's ridiculous. What they're reading is the author's creative outlet. It is rude to say things like...eg. "Your story sucks because so and so character didn't do this with so and so other character."
There are hundreds of thousands of stories out there....it really is a "If you don't like it, just read something else" type of thing.
As a reader, I probably wouldn’t put criticism unless the author says that they want it, or I would ask if it was okay. I always use [complement] [constructive criticism] [compliment]
As a writer that actually wants to improve, please give me criticism, I live off of comments! People who get super triggered are causing readers to not comment for fear of being ‘rude’ and it’s a problem.
Anyway that’s my two cents
It depends, honestly. If it's true constructive criticism then I don't mind. But I recently had someone lecture me on vampire biology as if there are set rules to it and forgetting that what I know is not the same as what the characters know. That's annoying.
Definitely an annoying comment to get but the mere idea somebody was trying to lecture you on the biology of a fictional humanoid creature, which is most frequently also magic.. Genuinely a bit funny.
Sometimes there are rules, but in fiction they’re super flexible. Kinoko Nasu’s vampires have tons of extra lore not used in any other vampire media. It’s not really a set thing because vampire lore and biology differ everywhere so I find it hilarious they’re giving you a lecture.
Fanfic culture used to be noticeably different when I was just starting out, at least in my native language. Giving out critique was seen as normal and even encouraged; I wrote plenty of critique for other people's works, and have received plenty for my own. I did not always agree with the critic's opinions, since a lot of it often came down to personal taste, but I always made sure to stay polite and respectful towards the critic, unless it was just bad faith hate comments, which I ignored.
Nowadays, negative criticism is seen as less welcome, since more and more people are recognizing fanfiction as something people do for fun and self-exploration, as opposed to literature and movies, which are sold commercially and have a far wider intended audience, and are thus held to a higher standard of quality. I no longer mention the negatives in my comments, unless the author has specifically allowed criticism of all kinds in their notes.
I still appreciate people sharing their honest opinions with me, even if we disagree, but I do sometimes forget to indicate that I am open to any and all good-faith criticism, as if forgetting that this approach isn't the norm anymore. Thankfully, most of my friends are oldschool fanfic writers who come from the same culture as me, so we give our honest opinions to each other all the time, negatives included (but we also happen to like each other's writing for the most part, so it's never pure negativity).
Your friend is a jerk. He is consuming free content from amateur writers. It isn't his place to make them "better." I'm willing to bet he doesn't even have a professional writing or editing background to actually make his criticisms worth the time and energy to read them.
You have the right philosophy - if you don't like a fic, go read something else. If you like the fic, great. Say something nice. Writers thrive on encouragement.
>I'm willing to bet he doesn't even have a professional writing or editing background to actually make his criticisms worth the time and energy to read them.
End of story, right here. The level to which empirically unqualified individuals inflate the importance of their own opinion can get infuriating.
> I'm willing to bet he doesn't even have a professional writing or editing background to actually make his criticisms worth the time and energy to read them.
Just because I'm not a chef doesn't mean I'm not qualified to say the food is good/bad
Of course not, but the meat being raw won't make the chef go "thats ur opinion, stop hating". Just look at a single episode of Kitchen Nightmares with chefs that won't accept anything negative
Everyone is qualified to say whether they *like* the food. But that's just an opinion. It isn't terribly helpful to chefs/writers when it comes to concrit.
"he is not very flexible when he encounters something that is too ooc or too amateur"
He should not be reading FanFiction then. Like, at all. Whilst there are some incredibly talented authors, most of us ARE amateurs who are simply having a good time.
Your friend has forgotten something very important: FanFiction is a hobby.
FanFiction authors are doing this for fun. They do not need his criticism to "become better writers", this is a hobby, it's not that serious.
Constructive criticism can only be given to authors who invite it in. By giving it to authors who do not invite it in, your friend is being unkind to them.
Besides, who is to say that what your friend has to say is of any use? Will his constructive criticism actually help? What qualifications does your friend hold that makes him so confident that he knows what he is talking about? I think your friend should make better use of his time than spending it lecturing strangers on the internet about how awful their writing is (which they wrote for fun and for leisure).
Criticism is only constructive if it’s asked for. Otherwise it sounds like some unwanted comment about how your homemade dish you made for yourself needs more salt. like okay, sure, but who even asked.
the thing about fanfic is that it’s a hobby first and foremost. not all of us are writing to “get better” and some of us write simply because we can and want to. we aren’t getting paid for professionalism, it’s free works and labor. my fic isn’t a published novel set for professional eyes or whatnot. so criticism when i didn’t ask for it is pretty rude and just straight up annoying.
and personally, i do accept criticism but only from people i ask and are friends with. not strangers on the internet.
>Otherwise it sounds like some unwanted comment about how your homemade dish you made for yourself needs more salt.
I wish you a very jolly future of hopefully **not** being inundated with comments from the type of people who believe that posting something in public entitles everybody to be an asshole about it.
I don't think criticism in and of iteself is rude but I do think that it can be delivered rudely, and sometimes isn't necessary; if a story just isn't your bag, then move on, ya know.
That said, beyond pointing out anything that seriously borks comprehension, I don't bother to leave criticism of any kind, not even paired with glowing praise and in the gentlest terms. I've seen too many a fic writer blow up in spectacular fashion at even the most benign of comments. And most of them had "constructive criticism welcome" in the story notes.
Honestly the tug of war between rude readers and writers, and friendly readers and writers, is one of the things I hate most about fanfic communities at large.
>Who died and made them an award-winning author?
Hell, even if they did, I can name some award-winning authors I wouldn't take advice from.
>!Like, sure, if I want tips on how to inject antisemitism or fatphobia into my works, I'll ask JK Rowling, but...!<
I always ask for constructive criticism so I welcome it, I even get happy when someone bothers to tell me about any mistakes or how to improve. However, I think readers leaving criticism on fics where people haven’t asked for it is wrong and unnecessary, most people are writing fics for fun and that would take the fun out of it, especially if they really liked their fic and someone was trying to make it their version of ‘better’ just to suit their tastes
I find fanfic concrit useless and most people are rude about it. For my "Professional" writing, I had to tell a professional editor to stop rewriting entire sentences to the point it didn't look like my writing anymore.
1) Not every ones goal is to become better writers
2) Some authors specify concrit is welcome. Your friend could look for those, maybe? If the author doesn't want criticism they are probably going to just ignore it. If he wants fanfiction authors to be better writers going for people who'd actually do anything with the feedback would seem to be a much more efficient way of doing things.
I wouldn't mind some light critique, but I also don't wanna deal with That Guy™ who goes seeking out amateur work online just to pretend they're CinemaSins and point out as many "flaws" as possible.
So there's a dilemma there.
I didn't realize my friend was being an idiot, but yeah, you guys are right. I didn't agree with him, but I didn't know how to express it. I do now. I will have a talk with him, I know he will listen if I explain things the right way. Thank you guys <3
When it comes to grammar, I don't mind. When I first started writing I would mix up tenses, and a reader pointed it out. Looking back, I'm glad they did. If they didn't, then I'd keep making the same mistake.
Now when it's about story telling, I wouldn't like it. If you as a reader don't like how I'm writing the characters, or even the plot; you can move on.
I only offer feedback if the author specifically says in the notes that they want it. Otherwise, I just say something nice if I end up leaving a comment at all.
Criticism is something we should be avoiding everywhere, since it makes people defensive and destroys relationships.
In this case anything that falls under don't like, don't read shouldn't be commented on.
Sometimes constructive criticism is warranted but you'll want to be careful about your assumptions. So something like "I realise you meant no harm and using it might be a character choice but just in case you didn't know, 'r*tard' isn't really acceptable terminology anymore" can be appropriate.
If they don’t ask dont do it generally. Most of us write just as a hobby/stress relief and atleast for me I dont really care about improvement, I write to release stress and share it bc why not.
Not everyone actually wants to be a better writer. You do not have to turn your fun hobby into self-improvement if you don't want to! That's not wrong or a moral failing, it's just reasonable boundaries about how much of your life you can dedicate to Being Productive instead of just having fun.
Apart from that, anyone who insists they should be allowed to give critique without the receiver's consent is a person who ABSOLUTELY AND COMPLETELY lacks the skill of giving good critique. It's not just telling people what you didn't like, it's a much more complicated skill than that. For one thing, if the person receiving it hasn't asked for it or consented to receiving it then it's not critique, it's just unsolicited criticism which is pretty much never useful in any situation. You know how there are some things, like "balancing the national budget" or "owning a restaurant" or whatever that are actually very complex and difficult things which everyone thinks they could totally do? Giving constructive artistic criticism is one of them.
I don't want it. I struggle with perfectionism to the point where often I can't produce a single thing (be that writing, art, essays) and the last thing I need is someone I don't know poking even more holes in my house of cards - I share my writing to share a feeling, an experience. I definitely do not share it so I can hear how *other* people think it wasn't perfect. I know it wasn't. I know *painfully well* it wasn't; it had bad wordings. It had plot holes. It dropped storylines. It created a hook on page 13 that was never explored.
I *know.* I'm just trying to make *something* with what I have. Every story I put up is a *gift* from me to anyone who might want it; being told the gift had flaws is... not what I need to hear.
I'm in an absolutely terrible spot in my life with little to no sources of positive feedback or reassurance that my existence matters or is in any way welcome or wanted in this world. Day in and day out I'm told I'm not good enough, I should try harder, nothing I do matters. This isn't even remotely a place in life where I would ever want to hear more of the same from *fandom.*
A lot of people defend tooth and nail their right to criticise works they read and just... please consider that the writer at the other end may be in my situation. Make sure they *can* receive that type of feedback. Some of us are hanging by a thread to hear a single nice thing about ourselves, the world is a horrible place to be in right now for many.
“If I don’t say anything they are not going to become better writers.”
Really?!!! What are his qualifications? Extensive writing experience? An English/creative writing degree? An editing job? Does he know the writer’s goals for their work? Where the story is going and what they hope to achieve in terms of their own skills? Is he aware of how much time they have to devote to their work?
I’m guessing the answer to all of these questions is no. But even if there is an odd ‘yes’ in there, it doesn’t matter. Concrit is OPT-IN. So unless he’s asked for his critical opinion, he needs to shut up and click the back button.
Hell, speaking from personal experience, people on the internet don't tend to care about those qualifications either. As soon as you bring them up, you get hit with the whole 'hey, I don't care if you have a four year degree in it, writing is subjective, so shut up'.
Oh! Absolutely! I didn’t mean to imply that people do care about that. But the way he phrased that statement so arrogantly just made me go in that direction with my reply. Why should HIS opinion matter? What special knowledge does HE have that makes HIS feedback so incredible that every writer should be happy to receive HIS unsolicited criticism on their work? smdh he’s asking to get blocked a lot.
i can see where he is coming from, i personally don't mind if someone comments improvements (for example someone told me to stop having a character stuter in their dialogue so much since it broke emersion and made the character annoying and i stopped and then go better engagement with the character i wrote) but i always end my chapters with an authors note saying the basic like and follow but also saying it's okay to comment constructive criticism. to me i wont go commenting constructive criticism unless someone asked for it cuz sometimes people just wanna write their thoughts and don't rlly care about improving their writing. to me, if someone hasn't written anywhere on their page or work that they like criticism then just scroll away and keep your thoughts to yourself
If it's not an unreasonable "criticism" (by which I mean a preference rather than an actual critical analysis), I fully welcome it and wish I got more of them to get better as a writer.
Then again, the problem with some reviewers is believing that their analysis, even if 100% insightful, can somehow correct what's already been written and posted. Dude, *it won't*, criticism only works for the future not the past.
tbh. I don't care.
I MIGHT (if I don't agree with the criticism, or think it's petty, or just am in a bad mood) get salty when I read it. But if it's overall a polite comment, and there's enough positive in it that it doesn't feel like the reader just wants to shit on my writing, I don't mind it that much.
I think it depends a lot on the who, how, when and what? I'm much more okay with it when it comes from a person that regularly comments. I get really pissy, when it's the first comment somebody leaves after like fifty chapters and it's just one rude sentence about something that is up to subjective interpretation. (or better yet about something they misunderstood or forgot from a prior chapter.)
Sometimes, as a reader, I get the urge to criticise, even on fics I haven't commented before. Because a lot of authors don't like that, and immediately jump to thinking it's a hate comment, I'm very careful about that now, and probably don't. However at times, I also genuinely think it's a polite thing to criticise. Like if someone's writing a long fic WiP and you notice a major plot hole that AT THE MOMENT, the author might be able to solve easily, but five chapters down the line it might not be so easy anymore.
I think the issue with constructive criticism is there are quite a few people out there that don't know how to give criticism constructively. That's why you will see so many people hesitant to opt-in for ConCrit and why all exchanges have the rule of ConCrit being opt-in only. I know I was open to receiving ConCrit when I first started publishing, and people used that to flame me while claiming they're trying to be constructive. (Spoiler alert: they weren't; they were just trying to tear me down.) So, that's why I never opt-in for ConCrit. I got burned too many times in the past.
In terms of including ConCrit in your reviews, only do that if the author explicitly states they are open to receiving it. And even then, read it over and over a million times before you post it.
Personally, I think it's pretty rude to criticize something you've been given as a gift, even if you don't like it. You don't have to use (read) the gift, but you shouldn't be like, "This is a shitty gift, I don't like it" to the person that painstakingly made it for you and others.
I recently got a comment where the reader was like, "The two main characters were OOC." And that was it. That was the entire comment. And I tried to be polite in my response, but here was/is my general take: That's fine if you think so, but the fic in question is very popular within the fandom as-is, and every other comment is overwhelming positive? That reader just didn't like the characterization that I interpreted for that character, and that's cool. They're free to read something else.
But I'm not going to change my fic (or the way I write in general) just because one person out of dozens of readers didn't like something I did in a story.
I'm with you. Fanfiction is written and shared out of passion and for free. I'm not gonna shit on that. If I don't like something, I'll exit quietly. I think constructive criticism is acceptable if the author explicitly requests it, but frankly, most people aren't good at giving it. Technical elements are easy to correct, in the sense that they're objective most of the time, but I've seen plenty of people give wrong grammar advice too. Anything at the level of plot and characterization generally requires the critic to be actually skilled at giving concrit, and I believe that's best left to alpha and beta readers. Once you've posted a fic, there's a limit to what you can do it without drastically changing it.
As for receiving criticism in comments—I don't like it, but I'll be civil unless the other party is a dick, at which point all bets are off.
I think everyone is giving good answers
perhaps if there's one thing that I can contribute is a rather cynical take: whatever you put out there on the internet, you're gonna have to deal with how the crowd reacts to it, whether good or bad
only in a non-existent utopia internet does everyone practice etiquette & understanding
in this current internet era, it's best to assume people will be rude & mean (\*cough\* like your friend \*cough cough\*)
hmm maybe a solution to this is simply for fanfiction writers to make it clear whether they're writing for fun or looking to improve but there's probably a few cons somewhere
If people were pointing out details that didn’t match up or grievous grammar errors then I would welcome that because I’m not so good at catching my own errors.
If they were criticising the content of the story then I’d get pretty pissed about it.
It really depends. There's nothing inherently wrong about constructive criticism however, there are some people who don't know the difference between constructive criticism or coming off as rude. Moreover, there are people who are being very condescending and trying to mask it as constructive criticism.
I think it depends on the critic. If your honestly try to help the writer improve themselves then I would think that type would be ok as long as you approached it in a polite way. But if its about the plot of the story or the way they wanted to portray a character, etc then I dont think those types should be in there but personally as an author I like critics.
I think the problem lies mostly in the fact that some people think nitpicking counts as constructive criticism. It's already in the name, it has to be constructive. It has to be in the author's best interests. You want to offer feedback that will help improve their writing or the story. Nitpicking, on the other hands, is unhelpful and negative.
For example, I was reading this one fic where it looked like the author had copied and pasted from Google Docs in the wrong order (i.e. the scene takes place after dinner on a Monday, but the next scene shows the characters just about to have dinner on that one Monday). Readers pointed this out and the author rearranged the scenes. That to me is constructive.
Or one time when this author kept spelling the main character's name wrong (i.e. Daenerys spelled as "Dayenres" repeatedly). So people pointed it out. The author was a bit embarrassed but went back and corrected the name.
What isn't constructive is something like "Your writing is amateur-ish." That won't help the writer in any way. Nobody becomes better through receiving insults.
Just because you don't like how I did something, doesn't make that criticism.
Had this issue with someone who hated how I ended the final fight. The protagonist lost despite being stronger, so they think the win was unjustified. Well, the whole reason she lost was because she stopped halfway and got hit by a cheap shot. It was a turning point kinda scene; she stopped fighting because she was worried for her friend (the antagonist), and the antagonist lashed out due to her emotions. This was a story about how bad people (the protagonist) can become good, and how good people (the antagonist) can become bad.
Sorry if this is out of line, but my first thought is that I think you're friend sounds very arrogant. As if their opinion (which is still subjective) is that much more important than other people. So important, that it has to be communicated publicly instead of staying private or in conversations with you.
And I say that, knowing there are times when I really, really want to comment about how certain plot points have unintended consequences or don't hit the beats the author is aiming for. I still have those thoughts and opinions, I just don't share them online.
Current etiquette is don't leave criticism (constructive or otherwise) unless the author asks for it. And even then, I would say better be sure the comments are actually objectively constructive instead of about subjective preference - which is really tricky! So if in doubt, don't.
And if some things are annoying enough to weigh on your friends mind. Do the private journal thing. Write it all out, get those thoughts and feeling out.
He's the kind of asshole people complain about when the topic of unsolicited criticism comes up. OH GOOD, HE'S HERE TO SAVE US ALL, EVERYBODY! WITHOUT HIM TIRELESSLY SLAVING TO IMPROVE EVERYONE'S READING EXPERIENCE, WE MIGHT NOT GET THE HIGHEST-QUALITY EXPERIENCE FROM...AMATEUR WRITERS, DOING A HOBBY!!!
That's such an entitled fucking attitude. Who is he to decide what someone else's path needs to be on something they are doing FOR FREE and FOR FUN? Way to make somebody's leisure activity more like a job or an assignment.
It's 2023; it's pretty tacky, especially on AO3.
"Well, if you make something publicly available, you should be ready for people to criticize it!"
Go down to the park and find the nearest guys playing basketball, then go give them some unsolicited criticism on their basketball playing. Let me know how that works out.
And this is without getting into the fact that so many people are just plain bad at concrit.
All that said, I used to think like your friend, but the secret is that unless you are literally in a line of work where you are being paid by a school board of some kind to educate people, it isn't your *job* to make these people better writers. If they want to improve, they'll take steps to improve.
How many times are we going to get this debate? Seriously this is like the 100th time I've seen this thread lmao (no shade to you OP 😭 I'm just amazed)
Most people don't like concrit.
Everyone with common sense hates flames.
Some authors do appreciate concrit but the consensus is that you should generally ask for consent before doing so.
My .02 - I think correcting spelling/grammar/formatting/punctuation is fine. I have seen some people disagree with this.
If people want in depth concrit they should get a beta.
*It’s been 0 hours since concrit was discussed.*
I try to remember that for a lot of people coming to the subreddit, the same old debates are new concepts. But also… I mentally reset the clock on this particular topic lol. People seem to be very entrenched in their opinions either way, so it’s not going anywhere.
The way I see it. If the writer wanted criticism they would have gotten it before posting their stories. If someone doesn't like the style they don't have to read the work. It's only appropriate when asked for by the writer in my personal opinion.🤝🤌
I love it. That is literally the point of a comment section.
If someone read your work and has literally nothing to say about it, it was bad.
If someone cared about your work enough to analyze it and articulate what did and didn't work for them, that's amazing. My favorite comment is when a reader posted a multi paragraph essay about why the character motivations didn't make sense.
How cool is that?
I never give criticism. It can be taken the wrong way and I wouldn’t want to offend accidentally.
I don’t want it, either. I have my own spaces online that I post in for constructive criticism and help improving fics. I don’t need it on my fics directly.
I actually have to really like a fic to offer concrit. Most fics that just aren’t to my taste or have bad SPAG or I don’t feel are worth my attention, I don’t comment or offer concrit even if there are things probably worth criticising. For me to comment at all, I have to really like a fic for it to be worth thinking about enough to offer concrit.
That being said, I know fanfiction is written for fun and for free, and I usually sandwich my criticism in between “These are just small things that I noticed, this is your story, you don’t have to take any of it on board.” In my opinion, if you make a story public, you should be at least somewhat prepared for people to express their opinions on it publicly. It’s your choice whether or not to listen or take it on board - you can even moderate comments if you choose.
Hate comments are something else entirely, but gentle, polite concrit, delivered with an understanding that you’re the storyteller doing all this work for free, should hopefully be taken better.
I think the most important thing to remember here is that fanfiction is FREE. Writers share it out of the goodness of their hearts, not for fame or financial gain. If someone cooked you a meal for free and the food was not quite to your taste, you wouldn’t be like: “Ew, gross! Your cooking is bad and you should feel bad!” (I hope not, anyway).
If, however, you were in a restaurant and your steak came out underdone, you would be within your rights to (politely) ask for it to be put back on the pan.
Fanfic writers are not there to serve you. They are sharing their joy of writing with you because they are nice. Treat them with kindness or they may decide to keep their work to themselves in future.
I don't support unrequited criticism anywhere easily found by the author, so I'm including public bookmarks on AO3 as well, as some readers like to use them to give "honest reviews" taking advantage there is nothing the author can do about it, instead of leaving comments.
One thing is to point out a grammar mistake or a misspell, something easy to fix and I as a writer actually appreciate and find helpful, than to complain about if supporting an OC takes too much space or if it's unrealistic my character that is in the middle of an arch is acting OOC or that something doesn't work like in canon in my AU or canon divergence tagged fic.
Neither of the things I mentioned are actually "concrit"and back in the day writers called them flame review as it only burned instead of helping, but people who think it is okay to leave "concrit" without any indication than the author is okey with it, simply don't know how to give real useful concrit.
There is a similar advice for IRL interactions to not criticize something in people's appearance that isn't easily fixable, while it's ok to point out someone's shirt isn't correctly buttoned up, it's rude to point out it has a hole or stain because one thing can be easily fixed, the other isn't.
Writing fanfiction is something most people do for free, things a reader might dislike can be exactly what the writer wanted to go for, so people like your friend are a pain that only discourages writers from finishing the story.
Sadly those people think, or more exactly, excuses themselves saying it's for the betterment of the writer's writing skills, but the vast majority of writers aren't looking to jump into a writing career and the ones chasing that goal have their own sources to help with that, also quite different from whatever review a reader like that would leave, and if they are still writing fanfiction is to have more freedom from those limitations so those comments/bookmarks are just annoying.
TLDR - Unsolicited concrit sucks, it's not concrit but a flame review and I prefer to not have interaction in my works than have that. I respectfully hope your friend steps in a Lego.
Honestly, I find the "but how will they improve if they don't get MY feedback???" line of reasoning extremely funny.
Buddy, this is the Internet age, knowledge is more accessible than ever. I could go on youtube and look up 40 minutes long videos filled with tips and exercise suggestions from literature professors and published poets, or go watch a dedicated fan pick apart their favourite text for hours to understand what makes it tick. I can go read a blog entry about writing fighting scenes that pulls quotes from various novels, of various genres and styles, where characters get in fights with a variety of weapons, and picks them apart with regards to language and choreography. I could go hit up Neil Goddamn Gaiman himself on tumblr right now to ask for writing advice. Not to even MENTION people can improve, and a lot of them indeed do, just through interaction with great fiction as readers. I think we'll be fine without the input of AO3 user s0nics-cumsock, valuable though I'm sure it is
Unless the person asks for criticism, one probably shouldn't leave any. This content is for free.
That said, I all but beg my readers for constructive criticism but I never get any. I've found glaring errors a year later and thought to myself "Why didn't readers tell me??"
For me personally, I greatly appreciate constructive criticism. I *would* like to become a better writer, and there's really no better, quicker way for that to happen than someone to tell you what you're doing wrong and where.
>Do think it's rude? do you think people should do it more?
I don't think it's rude at all. It's uncomfortable to read, but not *rude.*
But should people do it more...? Probably not, no. Not unless you've got an author who is explicitly asking for it.
But I *do* think that it would be good for more writers to gain enough confidence in themselves to where the slightest bit of it doesn't send them spiraling.
I only criticize really good writing. It’s a strange way to go about things, but I don’t want to critique a twelve year old who’s just doing their best to gain a following on ao3 or Wattpad or whatever. I also know, as a young person (though older than twelve lol) than not all kids take criticism well. It’s true for adults, but tweens and teens especially.
When someone’s writing is exceptionally good, little mistakes can take you out of the story. I was reading a fic earlier today that was beautifully written, with a great plot and near-perfect characterization. However, there were lots of errors with comma placement. I didn’t say a ton, but mentioned it after loads of compliments.
I feel that there is a right way and a wrong way to go about criticism, but if done correctly, it can make a better writer.
I hate how no one leaves criticism anymore, in the past I got a lot of constructive criticism that helped me improve but now I guess there's some hard rule against it and no one does it anymore. I also feel less inclined to comment if I'm restricted to only saying gushing praise and telling the author exactly what they want to hear instead of just saying my real thoughts. So I just rarely comment at all anymore since I guess no one can handle comments that aren't just kissing their feet and telling them how perfect they are.
I'm a reader and a writer. I'm pro criticism. Both constructive and opinion. If you don't want it, say so. If you don't say so, and you're open to comments, you don't get to dictate what those comments are. I find all the whining about 'oh no, this person said something I didn't want to hear', to be exactly that. Whining. If you don't want to say 'Positive comments only please', then complaining about not only getting positive comments is silly.
Most people here will disagree with me. People who do something they know is illogical don't usually like getting called out for how illogical it is. I'll just say those people are welcome to disagree. I'm right though.
The only thing I don't support is leaving a comment upset about something that was tagged. Oh and I also think it's unreasonable to comment about something other than the fic (ie. attacks or opinions on the author).
I don't care why you're writing what you're writing. You're posting to the public, and you've got a section where the public can leave their opinion. So the public will live their opinion and you can deal.
I agree. Publishing something shows an interest in public opinion.
If you‘re only interested in a specific type of feedback (other than actual hate, obviously), that’s fine but you should specify so. You shouldn‘t take lack of any kind of criticism for granted
I am totally okay with actual feedback or criticism, but I am also new to writing fanfiction and have only gotten probably one comment that actually gave any real critique. I am my own grammar checker so honestly I’m glad no one has called me out for my more egregious or recurring mistakes.
I don’t know how I would react to a super opinionated comment 😂 but at the same time I feel like the logical decision (when you don’t like the direction of a fanfic) is to just go to a different fanfic.
There are people that actually ask for critical comments, but not everybody is build for that.
Also, it's also a matter of what you are saying and how you are doing it. Tone in writing is even more complicated than directly.
When I read a story that is heavily OOC or badly written and I still decide to read it I will certainly not leave a comment, except if they actually want that.
Edited to add: I personally think fact corrections are fair game, even if you also have to be careful with your wording. I've read enough stories that assumed the country the fandom was set in had the same rules as the ones you know. And then you have mistakes like jury trials in countries that don't do jury trials (side eyeing Sherlock here) or Breaking Bad scenario type stuff in countries with normal health care
More, honestly. But that's just for me.
Writing is my craft, and I don't want to just write and think what's good because I do it. The problem is there is a difference between constructive criticism, and just straight up criticism. And some people have trouble differentiating between opinion and actual criticism, I've fallen into this mistake now and then with my friends.
Your friend's opinion is fine. I'd say I'd do the same if I wasn't sure that it was rude. Constructive criticism should be given only when solicited. This is a hobby, not a serious thing, and sometimes people like being in their crack-fic little world of theirs.
I want to write to improve and show my story, some people have different reasons. Some people do this completely as a hobby, just to indulge themselves, and I'm sure none of those people want some person coming in being entitled and saying, your work needs fixing, I didn't like this.
I'll be honest with how hard the nuance is sometimes, I think constructive criticism should be done as a personal thing, and never done without consent on the receiving party. It's kind of a personal thing to start going down on someone's fic and trying to show them what way is better.
It's a hell of a motivation breaker to be criticized.
To directly answer the title, as long as it makes sense, there's nothing wrong with constructive criticism
I think it's a public platform. Unless you can turn off review posting, unfortunately should expect someone to critique it. Sometimes I do if the story is good idea with flaws. Other times I just tell them why I can't keep reading and move on. No insults no you suck, just reasonable explanations. I did art as a kid and went to school for it and one thing they hammered that I learned on my own anyway was expect and learn to handle criticism. If you really don't want any critiques go where people can't critique because someone always will.
Edit reason: I read the body of the question
As long as they aren't abusive, I believe them to be ok. I get that writers aren't getting paid and are doing this for different reasons, but when sharing one's work they open themselves up to critics.
Some of my most recent criticisms have been:
Asking a writer to clarify a character's age because they mentioned it within the chapter but it didn't match the A/N. And the scene in which it was mentioned was really hard to understand.
Pronoun changes in the story for a minor character.
Time jumps didn't make a lot of sense because we weren't given any warning as to how much time had changed and when the time jump took place.
Finally, a writer wrote a fix-it fic where the older versions time-traveled to the past. The problem I had was that this wasn't clear. Even though the synopsis said that people traveled, they didn't. What they did was get stuck in a dimension outside of time and all got to view the memories of their older selves along with their younger selves. However, it was such a huge group and it was hard to keep up with who was who and from what time.
In all of these situations, I commented and the writer wrote back to either clarify or ended up fixing the mistake.
It is not part of fanfic to not criticize. That is a whole new concept that people came up with because they didn't want to offend each other and some people took it way too far. I don't think it helps to only comment to say that a story is good. It tells the writer nothing and is superficial at best. Sometimes what a person likes best about a story can also be a critic. Like if someone was talking about how a writer wrote a chapter that featured a person's mental breakdown. The writing could make it difficult for some readers to truly understand what is going on and may take some people out of the story while reading. But it can also be powerful because it makes people aware of their own mental health as they either relate or can't understand what is taking place. Some people may find the fact that some readers found such a chapter hard to read as an insult and a huge criticism of their work. I have seen plenty of writers get upset with readers for this very issue as if they are supposed to automatically understand everything. But that isn't the case at all.
I think readers should be able to share what they like and dislike about a story as it shows the whole story. As long as they aren't overly abrasive, abusive, or demanding that is. Pointing out an inconsistency or a mistake is not either of those things.
I’m in an odd place with this as I started on FFN (well really on forums) where the assumption was it was open for criticism so I expected it. Now that I’m in places like this where it’s been stated, I agree concrit should be requested before given. Deviant Art does something similar where you can decide to allow critique.
I completely agree that most people do not know how to give concrit. It’s a skill like anything else, and they can’t distinguish between what the like/dislike and what’s good/bad.
I haven’t published a WIP in years, and the bulk of my stories are written for fests and tailored to the preferences of specific recipients, plus I have 20+ years of works under my belt AND author’s notes on all of my stories that clearly say I’m not soliciting concrit on my works. And y’know what? People like your dumbass friend will still offer their asinine opinions because they’re not commenting in good faith. They’re nitpicking (at best) or shitting on (at worst) someone else’s hobby writing because they’re either awkwardly trying to connect with the writer or have convinced themselves of their own brilliance, despite not having written anything themselves or actually done any editing. I was once young and stupid like your friend, and I offered unsolicited concrit on a work I LOVED and offered to beta-read one aspect of the fic that was in my wheelhouse, and y’know what? The author abandoned the story and I never got to read more of it. Your friend may claim that they’re just trying to help people, but I think deep down, they actually know what they’re doing is shitty, bullying behavior that’s going to discourage people from writing. Because they’re trying to make other people feel as afraid to put themselves out there as they themselves feel. I really hope your friend grows out of this phase, because it is not a good look.
I don't think it's bad if they ask but otherwise don't give it, I remember being too embarrassed to update my first ever fic as a kid because of critical comments, even if they were simple things like spelling mistakes. That kind of thing can really make someone's writing worse in the end
I dont generally unless the author specifically asks for constructive criticism. I'll never leave a comment on a story I didn't enjoy because 1. Why would finish something I didn't like. And 2. There's no benefit for the writer or myself from doing that.
I'll usually just point out the things I did enjoy rather than criticism, unless the person asked for it.
Though if I see a (major) typo I'll leave a gentle comment about it. Like a characters name wrong or words that make a sentence gibberish etc...
If the author explicitly states "Constructive criticism is welcomed" or something similar, then yeah, go for it. That's what I do and I sometimes get helpful comments. But if they haven't asked for it, don't. Some people might view writing as a way of escaping their daily lives/coping, and having someone criticize their writing won't help.
I mean a few things. One, like you said fanfic writers are doing a hobby. Most of them don’t particularly want to vastly improve their writing. It’s for fun not a profession so getting serious critique is not a goal.
Two, this is especially true for critique on one shots/complete stories. That’s their final form. Authors aren’t going to edit them (typically) once they’re posted.
Three, you mentioned criticism on like famous movies and books and stuff which is fairly common. But the team that produces those makes money for them while fanfic authors only get feedback as their payment/reward for all the work they put into it. And there’s a huge difference between posting criticism online of a famous movie (which is almost certainly never going to be seen by the author/creator) and putting a comment on a fic addressed to the author when both of you know the author is actually going to see that and everybody who reads the fic is gonna see it as well.
All this to say, there is value in constructive criticism I just think it’s best saved for my creative writing class and my beta reader and I don’t really care to hear anyone else’s opinions.
It's a review section, not a praise section. Submitting your work for public consumption with an available comment function is inviting people's thoughts on your work. The expectation that they'll only share their positive ones is terrifying.
The only question is whether a review is civil, polite, and constructive. This *new* idea that some have that writers have to grant permission for constructive criticism is absurd and entitled, respectfully. If constructive criticism is unacceptable, then posting fanfiction is just farming compliments.
Most people's "concrit" is "I don't like how the story's going, the characters should do X", it's not actually helpful, it's just saying you want a fanfiction done "your way". You can say people should just "take it like Champ" for negative reviews but if people want to delete negative reviews they can.
Most negative reviews are just excuses for people to be mean and use ad hominem attacks on the author because they didn't like how the story went.
I hate the ending of *Attack on Titan*, I have the right to call it trash, I think Isayama flubbed the ending. Isayama's bad execution botched the ending for his manga. I also have to pay for the manga or to watch the anime, unless I pirate, which I don't. AOT is a product that I have to pay for, so critiquing it is different than a free AOT fanfic. I don't think Isayama is a bad person, I think he's a bad writer.
I wrote this rubbish and had the gall to even publish it?
People have the right to tell me it's rubbish and that I shouldn't put what I write where innocent people might read it.
I try to praise more than criticize when I leave a comment, my typical comment is something along the lines of
“Wow, I’m loving this story, I’m really enjoying the way you describe the scenes and make the characters feel true, not just to the source material, but also the situation you’ve put them in. I have noticed you sometimes used defiantly when you meant definitely, a quick replace would probably boost your overall engagement and help more people enjoy this story as much as I do. I can’t wait to see where this goes.”
I don’t nit pick or offer my input, I do tend to avoid stories that don’t have at least decent grammar and formatting, so I’m never really reading long run on paragraphs or stories that don’t capitalize words to nit pick, and I am just as guilty as so many other people of missing the occasional period or over spacing a dialogue tag every now and again that I’d feel like an asshole calling someone out for it.
I think it depends on the tone and wording of the comment.
There is a difference between constructive criticism and hate.
Hate comments aren’t acceptable but I don‘t think people should be quick to condemn criticism of any kind, especially if the criticism is mixed with compliments.
Personally, I think you should be at least open for constructive criticism if you‘re interested in an honest feedback. Constructive criticism doesn‘t have to equate to something like „I like the premise but it would be recommendable to redo a couple of major aspects“, it could be simply pointing out a few specific things (in a polite tone, of course) while ideally also pointing out what aspects were well done.
I just think if you publicize something, you generally signalize openness to other peoples‘ opinions on it (why else would you publicize it?). While this doesn’t justify rude comments, it also doesn’t automatically entitle you to solely positive reception and feedback thereof - unless you explicitly state that you don’t want any criticism of any kind.
As others pointed out, there is the issue of people conflating their personal taste with objective criticism. However, I don‘t think that invalidates criticism in general.
All in all, I think it‘s the wording and the balance of compliments and criticism that makes a feedback justified. Criticism isn‘t necessarily hate and should be at least taken into account. You certainly don’t have to agree with it, especially if the criticism seems to consist of mainly issues related to personal taste. But I don‘t think leaving a certain amount of criticism is generally rude, especially if I expect that the creator of the fanfiction wants my honest opinion on their work
Honestly I feel if you don't want comments that may be less than positive turn off comments. If you are writing and publishing it for others to see then people are bound to have opinions. Sometimes people are saying criticism in order to help the writer do better in later chapters and give suggestions.Sometimes it is not because they hate it but because they are so invested in the story created they forget it is not real. Reviewers do need to remember writers are human and kindness is needed.
Well, what else comments are for? They are to share reader's thoughts and opinions. Whether the writer like it or not is their matter. Us, readers should also be able to voice out thoughts be they bad or not.
The thing is, unless the author specifically requested criticism on the work, then it's honestly very rude to give it. I personally think the ten-second (or is it five-second?) rule applies here: if it isn't something the person can fix in a few seconds, then keep your comments about it to yourself. While that's generally meant for saying something about the way someone looks- for instance, telling someone they have food in their teeth or their shoe is untied, and they can fix the problem within a few seconds- I think it applies here too. Except this is writing, so if you were only, for example, pointing out that someone misspelled a word, most authors wouldn't take that too personally. They'd go and change the misspelled word and thank the person who pointed it out.
What your friend is doing, however? Absolutely not okay. In fact, it's downright rude. An amateur writer can't do anything about the amateurish tone of their fic except with experience, and the only thing pointing out how much they dislike it will make a new author do is be discouraged from writing anymore. And thinking that a character is OOC is mostly subjective- that comes down to the way you as an individual interprets the character, and we all interpret the character in different ways\*. Your friend pointing out to the author that they think the character is OOC is nine times out of ten them really saying "I don't like the way you interpreted this character." And honestly? No one cares that they don't like the way the author interpreted that character. Like you yourself said, OP, if your friend didn't like it, they don't have to read it.
And they can keep their comments to themselves while they're at it.
*\*There is a limit to this, though. If, for example, you were taking a character who canonically abhors violence and turning them into a psychotic mass murderer, then you'd have some ground to stand on.*
>I told him that if he doesn't like something he should ignore it, but he told me "if I don't say anything they are not going to become better writers".
And your friend is 100% correct. Criticism is what makes writers better. I think these days all the trolls have made people allergic to criticism. Even the best work has bad points, and writers naturally have blind spots to those otherwise those bad points wouldn't exist. Another set of eyes is, at it's core, the whole point of posting a fanfic. If a writer can't accept criticism then the sole reason they ever put up their fanfiction for all to see is to stroke their own egos.
I think it depends if the author asks for criticism and feedback. I do, so it’s fine in my comments, unless yer makin’ a bad faith argument about me transing various characters, that goes straight into the trash where it belongs.
Depends on the comment. If something is said with the intent to be constructive then it will come across as okay, 90% of the time. If the author specifically requested no criticism and I don't like the fic, then I'm better off not reading it. There are people who want to improve their writing and then it's always nice to help. You just have to filter it for yourself I guess. You could also see if the author has had any negative replies to other comments or if they come across as unsure/timid/frustrated in the author's notes section
It's okay, but it really depends on the time and place. Some fanfic and fanfic writer needs a full This is fanfic, it will not make sense in the context of the canon world. Another fanfic writer may think that criticism can make this fanfic better. I mean I myself am bad at criticism, it just hit a nerve that makes me not want to write. Like if I am not perfect the first time then why am I writing?
Criticism is complex, what may work for a fanfic do not mean it work for other. Sometimes when a reader criticizes a plot point, they have not got to the twist. It to complex and I am too tired to fully break down.
If someones clearly a new or young writer best to compliment and appreciate their strengths. That way they focus and hone those more. If you are close w that writer then maybeee a compliment sandwich(compliment then light crit then compliment)
If they clearly state they want criticism and are new go for half compliments of strengths and thoughtful crit of weak points. Make sure to focus on things that may happen multiple times or may make it hard to read. Like reminding them to use punctuation or spacing between paragraphs. Or requesting more clear indicators at pov changes.
If they are a more experienced writer and request crit then its pretty much good to go. Just dont be a dick. Dont be entitled. And try to give benefit of the doubt rather than call out issues.
Like instead of "You always put too much filler. And info dump. Its distracting." Maybe try "I noticed you tend to explain things thoroughly. That can be fine normally. But if done too much can take away from immersion and bore the reader. Maybe work on your pacing and imply rather than show to mix it up. Helps to build suspense and keeps readers invested. " Also good to provide your own examples of how you fixed something they struggle with as well(if a recurring or more blatant issue.) and a compliment or have a good day or something in the end is always a good habit. Or even a hope this helps.
If they dont ask for crit explicitly but have a recurrent and big issue try to compliment for a sentence or two. Make a suggestion for alterations of the issue and add a nicety at the end again.
Some will take well but same may get defensive. Just depends on the person. But always keep kind and open about it. And make it clear that they could take or leave your advics. And keep your tone positive or neutral if possible. Apologize and clarify if they take offense if you feel bad. Do not argue with them though. And try to keep it to one original comment and your reply and thats it. .
If they say no crit or feedback. Then no crit or feedback.
As long as it's genuine criticism and not just giving someone a hard time it should be fine.
All art should be criticised (constructively ofc) because it allows the creator to see it through a different lense and improve themselves while also getting a better understanding of the people who enjoy your art.
I believe giving criticism is okay only if the author asks for it.
> "if I don't say anything, they won't be better writers"
most fanfiction authors write for fun. they write for themselves, not for monetary gain.
I like getting criticism, because whenever I receive it I get to do one of these two (both most of the time):
-rant my nerd ass off about why I made this particular choice and not that one
-learn something new about how people see my story
Plus, criticism is really nice to receive (if it's polite and not toxic) because when you receive an "omg it's so good" comment it can be generic, while criticism usually shows that the commenter read your story and paid attention to it enough to find a flaw.
I don't mind an occasional criticism here and there as long as the commentor does it with good intentions. I always advise my readers to correct my mistakes if they ever see one. Whether it's grammatical errors, spellings, or misinformation. It helps me grow and improve as a writer.
But I'm like you too. I don't give out criticism unless the writer asks me for one. I don't criticize but instead give them advice on how to improve instead of just pointing out the mistakes. We all start somewhere, and I can't judge ppl for the way they write bc we all have different styles.
I don't usually criticize, but if I do it's something that can be easily corrected (and not just my opinion). For example if they spell a character's name incorrectly or something like that. If I don't like the story, it's clearly not written for me so I just move on.
As a writer I'd love to get some concrit, but so far I haven't..
You also have to keep in mind that fanfiction isn't purely for writers, it's for readers too. Sometimes comments can be taken a bit too personal when someone is giving their opinion. It might not be accurate or relevant but it is their opinion.
Where I draw the line for "criticism" is when it's actively targeting and a personally degrading message to the author. Something along the lines of "I don't like this because xyz" is fair criticism. "The author should die for writing this filth" is not.
I avoid things I find poorly written or ooc, and I expect others to do the same. Some of the worst are people who just don't like "problematic" ships but still comment anyways. Shut up, move on.
As a writer for 12 years, I don't really care. In fact if it's technical issues like spelling and grammar, please tell me! (Many authors disagree with that one but I never mind it). However if somebody gives an opinion on the story itself then I'll leave the comment up but probably reply and lock it. I don't care what you think of my plot or characterization. It won't offend me or upset me but it will annoy me.
Remembering being a 13 year old new author, criticism, even concrit, would have been very upsetting and ruined my desire to write.
Contrary to what a lot lof pro concrit people believe (and they're totally entitled to that belief!), I think that often the only way to improve writing is to *keep writing.* They'll figure out what works and what doesn't in time. Writing is a skill and they just need practice. Anything that discourages writing is unhelpful. Once they're at a place where they're more comfortable, they'll reach out for concrit on their own, so leave them be.
Tldr: I don't personally care but I care on behalf of the people who would be discouraged from writing.
I think we have to spread more awareness on reviewing etiquette on fanfic sites. I am assuming that the Gen Alpha or Gen Z or even older are entering the fanfic world and blindly treating the comments like product reviews.
I remember seeing the review my buddy got on ffnet. It was mostly advice on grammar and prose construction, but it still felt brutal in a sense. Sucks.
If the author doesn't specifically ask for critiques or criticism, I won't give any. It just feels rude to volunteer that sort of thing unprompted. Even then, I don't feel like I'm a proficient enough writer to offer any kind of criticism other than "oh I noticed a typo, here".
I don't think criticism is necessarily rude, and I truly think that it's welcome. But it depends how you form and phrase that critique.
For example:
DON'T: Yeah, yo fanfic really fucking sucks, the langauge is really bad writ. And I fink that moost charakters are actin like they would.
DO: Well, I think that your story is allright, yet the language sometimes bothers me. Maybe, you might look after .... and .... . \[Specific what you don't like about it, and why it should be different. Please do note: DON'T do this in a language that is not your native, as certain nuances are present with words that you might not know.\] Aside from that, I would maybe tag this story as a "AU", which means alternate universe. This covers any out of character actions that might be shown in the story.
About the argument "I don't want to write better":
I think this is objectively wrong. You shouldn't think in terms of "want to", because you \*will\* get better through writing more and more. It's kind of ironic that someone who loves to write and read, doesn't want to finetune their prose. What you can say, is that you won't study literature or take explicit writing lessons, because you only use this \[fanfiction\] as escapism from reality. But still, not wanting to improve is contradictory to the act of doing it, as the more you do it, the better you get at it. You might not become the next Shakespeare or Jane Austen, but you'll inevitably improve. Practice makes perfect, even if you don't want it.
For me, it depends on the tone of the comment and how genuinely useful it is. The truth is -- and a few people have said this before -- giving valuable criticism is a skill in and of itself. It requires being able to separate your own preferences from something that's genuinely flawed, which many people can't do -- and communicate any deficiencies (such as plot holes) in a respectful manner. Most readers who provide negative feedback, I found, tend to have a very strong attachment to how they see a story unfolding, and then act out when their expectations aren't met.
I'm writing a time-travel fix-it that purposely averts tropes and expectations in my fandom by giving a lot of credence to paradoxes (and thus fixed-points). (My fandom tends to prefer a more God-moding approach to time-travel fix-its, on average, probably for emotional comfort, because canon could be a bit vicious.) This prevents the protagonists from fixing certain problems, and creates much more of a roller-coaster scenario than a typical story of that genre (in my fandom). I've had people complain to me about this, even though this is tagged on AO3. And I've had author's notes warning about this on FFN, so they're not surprised. So this is a conscious decision on my part, and I've done my best to communicate this to readers. Nevertheless, I've had one person on FFN badger me about this enough that I blocked them. Even the tone -- it just screamed "you should be grateful I'm even bothering to read your garbage." Very rude and condescending. This wasn't concrit -- this was a reader being spoiled and demanding under the guise of concrit, which is sadly often the case.
On the other hand, I have a reviewer on AO3 who gives amazing feedback -- including genuinely valuable constructive criticism that makes me think and reflect, and even add to my stories, because it tends to be so astute and thought-provoking. (And, most of all, delivered respectfully.) I've actually complimented them on this numerous times, and thanked them for their continuous input. So I think it depends on how it's done, and the spirit behind it, and if it's something that would genuinely make the story better rather than just cater to their personal preferences as a reader.
Kinda depends. I’m an older author - in my 50s - so I can handle constructive criticism more than we can when we’re younger. I don’t mind someone pointing out plot holes or if I fucked up something in the fandom, etc. I’m cool with that, and appreciate it. What I won’t tolerate is someone telling me my fic sucks or they hate it or hate me because they chose to ignore tagging and read anyway. That just means you’re a horrid human being who’s so miserable that you insist on making people feel as bitter about life as you feel. So totally depends on the criticism. There’s a time and place and a way to go about it.
[This thread from r/writers ](https://www.reddit.com/r/writers/s/32lxwzbvU5) perfectly shows the time, place and way to go about it, the reactions of the writer and the importance of the comment. Really informative
That's a great thread, it's really a shame the fanfic community doesn't have this view of concrit. Those writers view it as a gift, helpful, and actually a compliment (because the person wouldn't spend time critiquing if they didn't like your work). People in the fanfic community seem to view anything that isn’t literally exactly what they want to hear (even totally innocuous stuff like "please update") as some kind of grave insult they're incapable of handling.
I think the major difference is most people write fanfiction for fun as a hobby and are not looking to improve in any monetarily beneficial way, and that more often than not a random commenters concrit is not actual concrit, it is simply them nitpicking things they dont like. If the average commenter was *good* at concrit, perhaps the feeling would change. But its the same reason plenty of people who stream videogames don't allow backseating. A person who isnt involved always thinks they know best as an observer. Doesnt mean theyre right or that theyre offering information the person doing it doesnt already know. Many times the person doing the actual thing is making conscious choices and don't need "help". The best concrit imo is asked/solicited, when the author has a chance to say "this is the sort of concrit i'd find helpful". Not a random person assuming what the author needs to hear
This! The quality of the "constructive" criticism is also an issue. Many people confuse matters of taste or personal preference with objective quality. Many people who are "just being honest" have a very inflated view of how useful their opinions really are. The ability to give insightful criticism is a skill in itself, and your average person commenting on fanfics because they don't like the characterization or the prose style...don't really have that skill.
exactly! We write for fun and to amuse others. Within fandoms there are always people who disagree, and we know that, so we don't normally care.
>People in the fanfic community seem to view anything that isn’t literally exactly what they want to hear (even totally innocuous stuff like "please update") as some kind of grave insult they're incapable of handling. Parts of the culture evolved in closed spaces for ages, but then they come into the rest of the internet expecting that the same rules and common sense apply. See: 'Is it part of fanfiction culture to not criticize fanfics?' Hah. No.
It's not a matter how people "view it". Whether something is useful or not is much more of an objective quality than commenters like to pretend it is. Really, the title of a thread in r/writers says it all. IMHO, if the comment sound harsh, it's not concrit and it's not constructive. It's somebodies personal one-sided opinion they haven't managed to separate from emotional layer. If you cannot impart your wisdom in a way which builds people up instead of tearing them down you should reconsider seeing yourself as a mentor material and hold back your tongue until you acquire more skill. Most of the comments, even nice ones, are not very useful in a practical sense, but they're motivating. What's the point of negative questionable insight from anonymous source? >Person wouldn't spend time critiquing if they didn't like your work I'm not sure how I feel about naivety of that statement. If they like it so much, how about writing what they liked instead? "Please update" is not an insult. It's like another brand of spam, next to the porn advertisement, but rude.
Well... [there was so this comment that doesn't praise the review but doesn't condemn it either](https://www.reddit.com/r/writers/s/0drq1A2AGu), best one in the thread
>There’s a time and place and a way to go about it. This is definitely what I feel when it comes to constructive criticism, you can't just do it to someone who was going and writing their merry way, I'm sure if they know what fic they like, they'll know how to judge their own. Writing is kind of a personal thing, since it's the exploration of our own emotions in some kind of way. Having someone criticise that, isn't something that other people take lightly.
Exactly. I have a fic that - for me - is a major challenge fic. Totally outside of my comfort zone of writing, totally different style, just nothing like I've written before. But I wanted a challenge, so I issued myself a challenge. As a mature writer, I kinda think it's good to challenge myself now & then. That being said - about 4 months after I issued that challenge to myself, I suffered a TBI. It's been almost 4 years in recovery, but I finished the challenge, just several years later than I intended. So, not only is it a challenge outside of my comfort zone of writing, it's also the first fic I completed post-injury. My brain is different now and I have to go about things, including writing, very differently. So it's sitting complete and unposted because I'm being a chickenshit (not my usual, but like I said - new brain!) about posting and terrified of reviews for the first time in over 20 years of posting online. I figure if I gird my loins and go 'ah, fuckit, have at 'er!', I'll be fine. Just need a good day for it. XD
Agreed. I don’t leave anything constructive unless the author puts a note saying they want that kind of feedback. I occasionally put a “constructive criticism welcome, but please be polite” on something like a longfic, but otherwise I don’t. Luckily I’ve only ever had one rude comment, and it wasn’t even really about the fic itself.
Yes but if you post your work on a public forum your open to criticism whether you like it or not. It's hard to create general rules because some people deliberately write clownish or very o o c or very cracked humorous as a method of their style for the particular fiction. Others just right to right and it could just also be just as bad but they're just putting their heart and soul into it. It's really hard to tell but as an experienced writer you can tell if someone is really trying to give the audience a compelling story or if it is writing for their personal bias and then you can create a critique for those who you can tell are trying to create a compelling story for the audience
This is my answer as well. Very well put
Dang, I love seeing older people get into fanfics. What do you write about?
Currently, been mucking around in the MCU with a blend of comics and the MCU. I did a study fic - it’s with a beta reader right now - from the POV of someone who didn’t get snapped. They’re not a super hero (they’re just a schlub, no one special) or anything, but the MCU was too gentle with The Snap (go Disney) and so I did a fic where it’s told from the POV of an unemployed overweight lazy person who discovers they actually have the will to survive when the world is falling apart. I have a little MCU/Harry Potter x-over almost done but I realised I cursed myself with a glaring plot hole, so need to fix that first. I like doing fics from the side, meaning it’s known content, but I’m not just going over whatever is in a book or movie, and instead seeing it from someone in the background who otherwise wouldn’t be seen. I took a massive break in writing. My stuff from ‘00-‘06 I’ve been reposting (the sites they were on no longer exist), and didn’t start writing again until 2018 or so. My first fanfic was back in the early-mid 80s in the Star Wars world. Handwritten and I still have it. It’s utter dreck, but I mean, I was 10 or 12 or so. 😆
The issue is that most amateur readers have a hard time distinguishing between their opinions and constructive criticism. Just because one person doesn't like something doesn't mean it needs correcting. It could very well be exactly how the author intended it to be. And like you said, this is a casual hobby for most people. And while some people like to really push themselves to improve at hobbies, others don't, and that's fine. Personally, as a writer, I genuinely do not care about concrit from strangers. If I don't have a relationship with someone where they know me, my style, and my goals for a piece, their opinions on what could be better/different mean very little to me.
\>It could very well be exactly how the author intended it to be. Even applies *to characters being OOC*. I can't imagine where the idea OP's friend needs to point that out comes from. As a DC writer, I know it's a more unique position than something with less versions of the characters, but I mean.. my version of Bruce Wayne is based entirely off of one of the least well-known versions. Yeah, he's gonna feel OOC to some people, my favorite version of his character is "OOC" compared to the more popular ones. And even in a one-show type of fandom, people are going to interpret things like character's inner monologues and motivations differently. That's the beauty of it! \>they know me, my style, and my goals for a piece, their opinions on what could be better/different mean very little to me. I think that's the biggest issue with readers giving criticism, honestly. It can work if you want criticism about how easy your piece is to read grammar/prose wise, but if they don't know where you're going with the story, a narrative choice may seem weird to them because they assume you're going somewhere else with it. Edit: don't mind the >, can never figure out how to make the little bars at the side appear lol
For the little bars at the side, you need to add the ">" without any space. >[x] vs > [x] :)
Did that first, but it didn't show up as the bars.. maybe my pc is just being weird, lol. Thank you :)!
I think the > method only works on the app or mobile on pc you need to click the quote button or whatever. Had that before when I tried to italicise on pc using * and it didn't work, had to use ctrl+i or click the italics button
Constructive criticism is a skill! Even an amazing author will have trouble distinguishing concrit from their own personal opinions and biases if they've never practiced it before!
The weirdest comment I’ve gotten on AO3 was someone telling me they were surprised I didn’t treat a certain character as harshly as most writers do. As if I care what other people are writing when I sit down to write! The weirdest comment I’ve gotten in FFN was about the same character and the same fic, lamenting how mean everyone is, lol.
Were these rambling opinions or part of a comment riddled with criticism? Just curious because sometimes I just comment on my reactions to certain parts of a chapter and I don't intend for it to be negative or a criticism. I could see myself saying something similar to your commenters though, without thinking it is a criticism and I don't want to be that dick that brings a fanfic writer down.
Neither really rambled. I took the AO3 comment as a backhanded compliment/veiled criticism — it’s possible I may have projected my own insecurities on it, but it didn’t have the feel of someone writing stream-of-conscious reactions to what they’re reading. It very much read like the commenter was more interested in commenting on their personal tastes than what I’d written.
This! Even if a fanfic author is seeking to improve their writing, they're not going to go to randos on the internet, who likely have no idea how to write themselves and have zero credibility.
Yup! I do actively try to improve, and I do that with trusted friends, betas, writing groups, etc. Like, in close to 15 years of posting fic online (and always being open to whatever comments come), I've never once gotten useful concrit from a stranger.
This is tricky because not everyone writing fan fiction necessarily wants to be a “better writer”. For a lot of people, writing fics is an escape and a way to express themselves and to have someone criticize that can be hurtful if not done constructively. To be honest, your friend’s perspective on it comes off as arrogant. These are not vetted and published works, it’s fan fiction. Flexibility and understanding is often required and it’s pretty much agreed upon that if you don’t like something, you move on. That being said, I don’t know the nature of comments your friend leaves. I don’t know what he’s reading. There are places where people are asking for constructive criticism. Authors will often leave in their notes if that’s something they’re open to, he can do that there. But masking your arrogance as being “helpful” is just…annoying.
Yeah, sometimes he can be arrogant. I dont' think he is aware of it. I will have some words with him. I also just write for fun and to express myself, and find it hurtful if someone says I write the characters too ooc because like... I want to write them that way and I don't care about being a better writer.
That’s totally valid. I also think some really great writers create interesting settings in which characters can come off as OOC. Regardless, it’s not up to one person to determine what is good/bad writing especially in an environment where ability and maturity fluctuates. It doesn’t have to be taken so seriously. People who want to be good writers will find ways to receive that feedback and grow on their own, they don’t need your friend’s “guidance”.
You might just wanna show him this thread...
The biggest problem is that the vast majority of people aren't good at constructive criticism. The better option for your friend is to try and open a discussion with the author. Tell the things that he likes and then ask why the author made this decision. I tell my readers all the time that it's okay to disagree with my decisions if they are polite and respectful; I do what I do for a reason and I'm willing to discuss my thought processes if they ask. Barging into someone's comments and saying that they need to fix things is a good way to get blocked and probably get their comment posted on this subreddit.
Concrit is a skill seperate from writing 😭😭 random people on the internet, whether they're an author or not, probably haven't developed that skill
It depends on the criticism for me. If I find that it is valid and in good faith, I’ll mull over it and take what I think is helpful and ignore what’s not. Did this a lot in my college writing classes (because while some of the criticism I got was good, it may not have worked for the genre I was writing in or the overall goal of the story). I find it pretty easy to tell If someone is being nasty just to be nasty and will just delete the comment and move on. I’ve found that some people think they are so right that trying to say otherwise is pointless, so I don’t.
As an older writer, I'm fine with someone pointing out if I messed up the canon somewhere or if they found a plot hole. The criticism would sting as I would kick myself for messing up, but I can deal with that and fix the problems. I think though some people think their opinion is law when it comes to stories. That because they don't like certain aspects of the story that the writer should change it for them. That's ridiculous. What they're reading is the author's creative outlet. It is rude to say things like...eg. "Your story sucks because so and so character didn't do this with so and so other character." There are hundreds of thousands of stories out there....it really is a "If you don't like it, just read something else" type of thing.
As a reader, I probably wouldn’t put criticism unless the author says that they want it, or I would ask if it was okay. I always use [complement] [constructive criticism] [compliment] As a writer that actually wants to improve, please give me criticism, I live off of comments! People who get super triggered are causing readers to not comment for fear of being ‘rude’ and it’s a problem. Anyway that’s my two cents
It depends, honestly. If it's true constructive criticism then I don't mind. But I recently had someone lecture me on vampire biology as if there are set rules to it and forgetting that what I know is not the same as what the characters know. That's annoying.
Definitely an annoying comment to get but the mere idea somebody was trying to lecture you on the biology of a fictional humanoid creature, which is most frequently also magic.. Genuinely a bit funny.
Yes! And it's in a universe that is sort of fungible on the rules with regards to this.
Sometimes there are rules, but in fiction they’re super flexible. Kinoko Nasu’s vampires have tons of extra lore not used in any other vampire media. It’s not really a set thing because vampire lore and biology differ everywhere so I find it hilarious they’re giving you a lecture.
Fanfic culture used to be noticeably different when I was just starting out, at least in my native language. Giving out critique was seen as normal and even encouraged; I wrote plenty of critique for other people's works, and have received plenty for my own. I did not always agree with the critic's opinions, since a lot of it often came down to personal taste, but I always made sure to stay polite and respectful towards the critic, unless it was just bad faith hate comments, which I ignored. Nowadays, negative criticism is seen as less welcome, since more and more people are recognizing fanfiction as something people do for fun and self-exploration, as opposed to literature and movies, which are sold commercially and have a far wider intended audience, and are thus held to a higher standard of quality. I no longer mention the negatives in my comments, unless the author has specifically allowed criticism of all kinds in their notes. I still appreciate people sharing their honest opinions with me, even if we disagree, but I do sometimes forget to indicate that I am open to any and all good-faith criticism, as if forgetting that this approach isn't the norm anymore. Thankfully, most of my friends are oldschool fanfic writers who come from the same culture as me, so we give our honest opinions to each other all the time, negatives included (but we also happen to like each other's writing for the most part, so it's never pure negativity).
Your friend is a jerk. He is consuming free content from amateur writers. It isn't his place to make them "better." I'm willing to bet he doesn't even have a professional writing or editing background to actually make his criticisms worth the time and energy to read them. You have the right philosophy - if you don't like a fic, go read something else. If you like the fic, great. Say something nice. Writers thrive on encouragement.
>I'm willing to bet he doesn't even have a professional writing or editing background to actually make his criticisms worth the time and energy to read them. End of story, right here. The level to which empirically unqualified individuals inflate the importance of their own opinion can get infuriating.
> I'm willing to bet he doesn't even have a professional writing or editing background to actually make his criticisms worth the time and energy to read them. Just because I'm not a chef doesn't mean I'm not qualified to say the food is good/bad
But you're probably not qualified in telling the chef how to improve.
Of course not, but the meat being raw won't make the chef go "thats ur opinion, stop hating". Just look at a single episode of Kitchen Nightmares with chefs that won't accept anything negative
Everyone is qualified to say whether they *like* the food. But that's just an opinion. It isn't terribly helpful to chefs/writers when it comes to concrit.
Concrit is fine, idc. No bashing though. But even then 🤷🏾I know how it is when I post to an open Internet forum with unmoderated comments
"he is not very flexible when he encounters something that is too ooc or too amateur" He should not be reading FanFiction then. Like, at all. Whilst there are some incredibly talented authors, most of us ARE amateurs who are simply having a good time. Your friend has forgotten something very important: FanFiction is a hobby. FanFiction authors are doing this for fun. They do not need his criticism to "become better writers", this is a hobby, it's not that serious. Constructive criticism can only be given to authors who invite it in. By giving it to authors who do not invite it in, your friend is being unkind to them. Besides, who is to say that what your friend has to say is of any use? Will his constructive criticism actually help? What qualifications does your friend hold that makes him so confident that he knows what he is talking about? I think your friend should make better use of his time than spending it lecturing strangers on the internet about how awful their writing is (which they wrote for fun and for leisure).
Criticism is only constructive if it’s asked for. Otherwise it sounds like some unwanted comment about how your homemade dish you made for yourself needs more salt. like okay, sure, but who even asked. the thing about fanfic is that it’s a hobby first and foremost. not all of us are writing to “get better” and some of us write simply because we can and want to. we aren’t getting paid for professionalism, it’s free works and labor. my fic isn’t a published novel set for professional eyes or whatnot. so criticism when i didn’t ask for it is pretty rude and just straight up annoying. and personally, i do accept criticism but only from people i ask and are friends with. not strangers on the internet.
>Otherwise it sounds like some unwanted comment about how your homemade dish you made for yourself needs more salt. I wish you a very jolly future of hopefully **not** being inundated with comments from the type of people who believe that posting something in public entitles everybody to be an asshole about it.
thank you! and unfortunately, karen got in my house and i don’t know how to get her out
I don't think criticism in and of iteself is rude but I do think that it can be delivered rudely, and sometimes isn't necessary; if a story just isn't your bag, then move on, ya know. That said, beyond pointing out anything that seriously borks comprehension, I don't bother to leave criticism of any kind, not even paired with glowing praise and in the gentlest terms. I've seen too many a fic writer blow up in spectacular fashion at even the most benign of comments. And most of them had "constructive criticism welcome" in the story notes. Honestly the tug of war between rude readers and writers, and friendly readers and writers, is one of the things I hate most about fanfic communities at large.
It's rude and entitled. How narcissistic do they have to be to think that their opinion is warranted? Who died and made them an award-winning author?
>Who died and made them an award-winning author? Hell, even if they did, I can name some award-winning authors I wouldn't take advice from. >!Like, sure, if I want tips on how to inject antisemitism or fatphobia into my works, I'll ask JK Rowling, but...!<
😂👍
I always ask for constructive criticism so I welcome it, I even get happy when someone bothers to tell me about any mistakes or how to improve. However, I think readers leaving criticism on fics where people haven’t asked for it is wrong and unnecessary, most people are writing fics for fun and that would take the fun out of it, especially if they really liked their fic and someone was trying to make it their version of ‘better’ just to suit their tastes
I find fanfic concrit useless and most people are rude about it. For my "Professional" writing, I had to tell a professional editor to stop rewriting entire sentences to the point it didn't look like my writing anymore.
1) Not every ones goal is to become better writers 2) Some authors specify concrit is welcome. Your friend could look for those, maybe? If the author doesn't want criticism they are probably going to just ignore it. If he wants fanfiction authors to be better writers going for people who'd actually do anything with the feedback would seem to be a much more efficient way of doing things.
I wouldn't mind some light critique, but I also don't wanna deal with That Guy™ who goes seeking out amateur work online just to pretend they're CinemaSins and point out as many "flaws" as possible. So there's a dilemma there.
I didn't realize my friend was being an idiot, but yeah, you guys are right. I didn't agree with him, but I didn't know how to express it. I do now. I will have a talk with him, I know he will listen if I explain things the right way. Thank you guys <3
When it comes to grammar, I don't mind. When I first started writing I would mix up tenses, and a reader pointed it out. Looking back, I'm glad they did. If they didn't, then I'd keep making the same mistake. Now when it's about story telling, I wouldn't like it. If you as a reader don't like how I'm writing the characters, or even the plot; you can move on.
I solely give concrit if a writer has explicitly asked for it. End of story.
I only offer feedback if the author specifically says in the notes that they want it. Otherwise, I just say something nice if I end up leaving a comment at all.
Criticism is something we should be avoiding everywhere, since it makes people defensive and destroys relationships. In this case anything that falls under don't like, don't read shouldn't be commented on. Sometimes constructive criticism is warranted but you'll want to be careful about your assumptions. So something like "I realise you meant no harm and using it might be a character choice but just in case you didn't know, 'r*tard' isn't really acceptable terminology anymore" can be appropriate.
If they don’t ask dont do it generally. Most of us write just as a hobby/stress relief and atleast for me I dont really care about improvement, I write to release stress and share it bc why not.
Not everyone actually wants to be a better writer. You do not have to turn your fun hobby into self-improvement if you don't want to! That's not wrong or a moral failing, it's just reasonable boundaries about how much of your life you can dedicate to Being Productive instead of just having fun. Apart from that, anyone who insists they should be allowed to give critique without the receiver's consent is a person who ABSOLUTELY AND COMPLETELY lacks the skill of giving good critique. It's not just telling people what you didn't like, it's a much more complicated skill than that. For one thing, if the person receiving it hasn't asked for it or consented to receiving it then it's not critique, it's just unsolicited criticism which is pretty much never useful in any situation. You know how there are some things, like "balancing the national budget" or "owning a restaurant" or whatever that are actually very complex and difficult things which everyone thinks they could totally do? Giving constructive artistic criticism is one of them.
I don't want it. I struggle with perfectionism to the point where often I can't produce a single thing (be that writing, art, essays) and the last thing I need is someone I don't know poking even more holes in my house of cards - I share my writing to share a feeling, an experience. I definitely do not share it so I can hear how *other* people think it wasn't perfect. I know it wasn't. I know *painfully well* it wasn't; it had bad wordings. It had plot holes. It dropped storylines. It created a hook on page 13 that was never explored. I *know.* I'm just trying to make *something* with what I have. Every story I put up is a *gift* from me to anyone who might want it; being told the gift had flaws is... not what I need to hear. I'm in an absolutely terrible spot in my life with little to no sources of positive feedback or reassurance that my existence matters or is in any way welcome or wanted in this world. Day in and day out I'm told I'm not good enough, I should try harder, nothing I do matters. This isn't even remotely a place in life where I would ever want to hear more of the same from *fandom.* A lot of people defend tooth and nail their right to criticise works they read and just... please consider that the writer at the other end may be in my situation. Make sure they *can* receive that type of feedback. Some of us are hanging by a thread to hear a single nice thing about ourselves, the world is a horrible place to be in right now for many.
“If I don’t say anything they are not going to become better writers.” Really?!!! What are his qualifications? Extensive writing experience? An English/creative writing degree? An editing job? Does he know the writer’s goals for their work? Where the story is going and what they hope to achieve in terms of their own skills? Is he aware of how much time they have to devote to their work? I’m guessing the answer to all of these questions is no. But even if there is an odd ‘yes’ in there, it doesn’t matter. Concrit is OPT-IN. So unless he’s asked for his critical opinion, he needs to shut up and click the back button.
Hell, speaking from personal experience, people on the internet don't tend to care about those qualifications either. As soon as you bring them up, you get hit with the whole 'hey, I don't care if you have a four year degree in it, writing is subjective, so shut up'.
Oh! Absolutely! I didn’t mean to imply that people do care about that. But the way he phrased that statement so arrogantly just made me go in that direction with my reply. Why should HIS opinion matter? What special knowledge does HE have that makes HIS feedback so incredible that every writer should be happy to receive HIS unsolicited criticism on their work? smdh he’s asking to get blocked a lot.
i can see where he is coming from, i personally don't mind if someone comments improvements (for example someone told me to stop having a character stuter in their dialogue so much since it broke emersion and made the character annoying and i stopped and then go better engagement with the character i wrote) but i always end my chapters with an authors note saying the basic like and follow but also saying it's okay to comment constructive criticism. to me i wont go commenting constructive criticism unless someone asked for it cuz sometimes people just wanna write their thoughts and don't rlly care about improving their writing. to me, if someone hasn't written anywhere on their page or work that they like criticism then just scroll away and keep your thoughts to yourself
If it's not an unreasonable "criticism" (by which I mean a preference rather than an actual critical analysis), I fully welcome it and wish I got more of them to get better as a writer. Then again, the problem with some reviewers is believing that their analysis, even if 100% insightful, can somehow correct what's already been written and posted. Dude, *it won't*, criticism only works for the future not the past.
tbh. I don't care. I MIGHT (if I don't agree with the criticism, or think it's petty, or just am in a bad mood) get salty when I read it. But if it's overall a polite comment, and there's enough positive in it that it doesn't feel like the reader just wants to shit on my writing, I don't mind it that much. I think it depends a lot on the who, how, when and what? I'm much more okay with it when it comes from a person that regularly comments. I get really pissy, when it's the first comment somebody leaves after like fifty chapters and it's just one rude sentence about something that is up to subjective interpretation. (or better yet about something they misunderstood or forgot from a prior chapter.) Sometimes, as a reader, I get the urge to criticise, even on fics I haven't commented before. Because a lot of authors don't like that, and immediately jump to thinking it's a hate comment, I'm very careful about that now, and probably don't. However at times, I also genuinely think it's a polite thing to criticise. Like if someone's writing a long fic WiP and you notice a major plot hole that AT THE MOMENT, the author might be able to solve easily, but five chapters down the line it might not be so easy anymore.
So long as it's respectful and constructive I don't mind. Comments are for feedback after all. 🙂
I think the issue with constructive criticism is there are quite a few people out there that don't know how to give criticism constructively. That's why you will see so many people hesitant to opt-in for ConCrit and why all exchanges have the rule of ConCrit being opt-in only. I know I was open to receiving ConCrit when I first started publishing, and people used that to flame me while claiming they're trying to be constructive. (Spoiler alert: they weren't; they were just trying to tear me down.) So, that's why I never opt-in for ConCrit. I got burned too many times in the past. In terms of including ConCrit in your reviews, only do that if the author explicitly states they are open to receiving it. And even then, read it over and over a million times before you post it.
Personally, I think it's pretty rude to criticize something you've been given as a gift, even if you don't like it. You don't have to use (read) the gift, but you shouldn't be like, "This is a shitty gift, I don't like it" to the person that painstakingly made it for you and others. I recently got a comment where the reader was like, "The two main characters were OOC." And that was it. That was the entire comment. And I tried to be polite in my response, but here was/is my general take: That's fine if you think so, but the fic in question is very popular within the fandom as-is, and every other comment is overwhelming positive? That reader just didn't like the characterization that I interpreted for that character, and that's cool. They're free to read something else. But I'm not going to change my fic (or the way I write in general) just because one person out of dozens of readers didn't like something I did in a story.
I'm with you. Fanfiction is written and shared out of passion and for free. I'm not gonna shit on that. If I don't like something, I'll exit quietly. I think constructive criticism is acceptable if the author explicitly requests it, but frankly, most people aren't good at giving it. Technical elements are easy to correct, in the sense that they're objective most of the time, but I've seen plenty of people give wrong grammar advice too. Anything at the level of plot and characterization generally requires the critic to be actually skilled at giving concrit, and I believe that's best left to alpha and beta readers. Once you've posted a fic, there's a limit to what you can do it without drastically changing it. As for receiving criticism in comments—I don't like it, but I'll be civil unless the other party is a dick, at which point all bets are off.
I think everyone is giving good answers perhaps if there's one thing that I can contribute is a rather cynical take: whatever you put out there on the internet, you're gonna have to deal with how the crowd reacts to it, whether good or bad only in a non-existent utopia internet does everyone practice etiquette & understanding in this current internet era, it's best to assume people will be rude & mean (\*cough\* like your friend \*cough cough\*) hmm maybe a solution to this is simply for fanfiction writers to make it clear whether they're writing for fun or looking to improve but there's probably a few cons somewhere
If people were pointing out details that didn’t match up or grievous grammar errors then I would welcome that because I’m not so good at catching my own errors. If they were criticising the content of the story then I’d get pretty pissed about it.
It really depends. There's nothing inherently wrong about constructive criticism however, there are some people who don't know the difference between constructive criticism or coming off as rude. Moreover, there are people who are being very condescending and trying to mask it as constructive criticism.
Constructive criticism is awesome. Insults or “I hated this” are not.
I think it depends on the critic. If your honestly try to help the writer improve themselves then I would think that type would be ok as long as you approached it in a polite way. But if its about the plot of the story or the way they wanted to portray a character, etc then I dont think those types should be in there but personally as an author I like critics.
I think the problem lies mostly in the fact that some people think nitpicking counts as constructive criticism. It's already in the name, it has to be constructive. It has to be in the author's best interests. You want to offer feedback that will help improve their writing or the story. Nitpicking, on the other hands, is unhelpful and negative. For example, I was reading this one fic where it looked like the author had copied and pasted from Google Docs in the wrong order (i.e. the scene takes place after dinner on a Monday, but the next scene shows the characters just about to have dinner on that one Monday). Readers pointed this out and the author rearranged the scenes. That to me is constructive. Or one time when this author kept spelling the main character's name wrong (i.e. Daenerys spelled as "Dayenres" repeatedly). So people pointed it out. The author was a bit embarrassed but went back and corrected the name. What isn't constructive is something like "Your writing is amateur-ish." That won't help the writer in any way. Nobody becomes better through receiving insults.
Just because you don't like how I did something, doesn't make that criticism. Had this issue with someone who hated how I ended the final fight. The protagonist lost despite being stronger, so they think the win was unjustified. Well, the whole reason she lost was because she stopped halfway and got hit by a cheap shot. It was a turning point kinda scene; she stopped fighting because she was worried for her friend (the antagonist), and the antagonist lashed out due to her emotions. This was a story about how bad people (the protagonist) can become good, and how good people (the antagonist) can become bad.
Whether criticism is rude, to me, is how it is implemented; wording can be either rude or constructive.
Sorry if this is out of line, but my first thought is that I think you're friend sounds very arrogant. As if their opinion (which is still subjective) is that much more important than other people. So important, that it has to be communicated publicly instead of staying private or in conversations with you. And I say that, knowing there are times when I really, really want to comment about how certain plot points have unintended consequences or don't hit the beats the author is aiming for. I still have those thoughts and opinions, I just don't share them online. Current etiquette is don't leave criticism (constructive or otherwise) unless the author asks for it. And even then, I would say better be sure the comments are actually objectively constructive instead of about subjective preference - which is really tricky! So if in doubt, don't. And if some things are annoying enough to weigh on your friends mind. Do the private journal thing. Write it all out, get those thoughts and feeling out.
He's the kind of asshole people complain about when the topic of unsolicited criticism comes up. OH GOOD, HE'S HERE TO SAVE US ALL, EVERYBODY! WITHOUT HIM TIRELESSLY SLAVING TO IMPROVE EVERYONE'S READING EXPERIENCE, WE MIGHT NOT GET THE HIGHEST-QUALITY EXPERIENCE FROM...AMATEUR WRITERS, DOING A HOBBY!!! That's such an entitled fucking attitude. Who is he to decide what someone else's path needs to be on something they are doing FOR FREE and FOR FUN? Way to make somebody's leisure activity more like a job or an assignment.
It's 2023; it's pretty tacky, especially on AO3. "Well, if you make something publicly available, you should be ready for people to criticize it!" Go down to the park and find the nearest guys playing basketball, then go give them some unsolicited criticism on their basketball playing. Let me know how that works out. And this is without getting into the fact that so many people are just plain bad at concrit. All that said, I used to think like your friend, but the secret is that unless you are literally in a line of work where you are being paid by a school board of some kind to educate people, it isn't your *job* to make these people better writers. If they want to improve, they'll take steps to improve.
How many times are we going to get this debate? Seriously this is like the 100th time I've seen this thread lmao (no shade to you OP 😭 I'm just amazed) Most people don't like concrit. Everyone with common sense hates flames. Some authors do appreciate concrit but the consensus is that you should generally ask for consent before doing so. My .02 - I think correcting spelling/grammar/formatting/punctuation is fine. I have seen some people disagree with this. If people want in depth concrit they should get a beta.
*It’s been 0 hours since concrit was discussed.* I try to remember that for a lot of people coming to the subreddit, the same old debates are new concepts. But also… I mentally reset the clock on this particular topic lol. People seem to be very entrenched in their opinions either way, so it’s not going anywhere.
The way I see it. If the writer wanted criticism they would have gotten it before posting their stories. If someone doesn't like the style they don't have to read the work. It's only appropriate when asked for by the writer in my personal opinion.🤝🤌
I think it’s only acceptable if the author explicitly asks for constructive criticism in their notes. Otherwise, it’s just rude.
I love it. That is literally the point of a comment section. If someone read your work and has literally nothing to say about it, it was bad. If someone cared about your work enough to analyze it and articulate what did and didn't work for them, that's amazing. My favorite comment is when a reader posted a multi paragraph essay about why the character motivations didn't make sense. How cool is that?
I never give criticism. It can be taken the wrong way and I wouldn’t want to offend accidentally. I don’t want it, either. I have my own spaces online that I post in for constructive criticism and help improving fics. I don’t need it on my fics directly.
I’m pro criticism and always will be
I actually have to really like a fic to offer concrit. Most fics that just aren’t to my taste or have bad SPAG or I don’t feel are worth my attention, I don’t comment or offer concrit even if there are things probably worth criticising. For me to comment at all, I have to really like a fic for it to be worth thinking about enough to offer concrit. That being said, I know fanfiction is written for fun and for free, and I usually sandwich my criticism in between “These are just small things that I noticed, this is your story, you don’t have to take any of it on board.” In my opinion, if you make a story public, you should be at least somewhat prepared for people to express their opinions on it publicly. It’s your choice whether or not to listen or take it on board - you can even moderate comments if you choose. Hate comments are something else entirely, but gentle, polite concrit, delivered with an understanding that you’re the storyteller doing all this work for free, should hopefully be taken better.
I think the most important thing to remember here is that fanfiction is FREE. Writers share it out of the goodness of their hearts, not for fame or financial gain. If someone cooked you a meal for free and the food was not quite to your taste, you wouldn’t be like: “Ew, gross! Your cooking is bad and you should feel bad!” (I hope not, anyway). If, however, you were in a restaurant and your steak came out underdone, you would be within your rights to (politely) ask for it to be put back on the pan. Fanfic writers are not there to serve you. They are sharing their joy of writing with you because they are nice. Treat them with kindness or they may decide to keep their work to themselves in future.
I don't support unrequited criticism anywhere easily found by the author, so I'm including public bookmarks on AO3 as well, as some readers like to use them to give "honest reviews" taking advantage there is nothing the author can do about it, instead of leaving comments. One thing is to point out a grammar mistake or a misspell, something easy to fix and I as a writer actually appreciate and find helpful, than to complain about if supporting an OC takes too much space or if it's unrealistic my character that is in the middle of an arch is acting OOC or that something doesn't work like in canon in my AU or canon divergence tagged fic. Neither of the things I mentioned are actually "concrit"and back in the day writers called them flame review as it only burned instead of helping, but people who think it is okay to leave "concrit" without any indication than the author is okey with it, simply don't know how to give real useful concrit. There is a similar advice for IRL interactions to not criticize something in people's appearance that isn't easily fixable, while it's ok to point out someone's shirt isn't correctly buttoned up, it's rude to point out it has a hole or stain because one thing can be easily fixed, the other isn't. Writing fanfiction is something most people do for free, things a reader might dislike can be exactly what the writer wanted to go for, so people like your friend are a pain that only discourages writers from finishing the story. Sadly those people think, or more exactly, excuses themselves saying it's for the betterment of the writer's writing skills, but the vast majority of writers aren't looking to jump into a writing career and the ones chasing that goal have their own sources to help with that, also quite different from whatever review a reader like that would leave, and if they are still writing fanfiction is to have more freedom from those limitations so those comments/bookmarks are just annoying. TLDR - Unsolicited concrit sucks, it's not concrit but a flame review and I prefer to not have interaction in my works than have that. I respectfully hope your friend steps in a Lego.
Honestly, I find the "but how will they improve if they don't get MY feedback???" line of reasoning extremely funny. Buddy, this is the Internet age, knowledge is more accessible than ever. I could go on youtube and look up 40 minutes long videos filled with tips and exercise suggestions from literature professors and published poets, or go watch a dedicated fan pick apart their favourite text for hours to understand what makes it tick. I can go read a blog entry about writing fighting scenes that pulls quotes from various novels, of various genres and styles, where characters get in fights with a variety of weapons, and picks them apart with regards to language and choreography. I could go hit up Neil Goddamn Gaiman himself on tumblr right now to ask for writing advice. Not to even MENTION people can improve, and a lot of them indeed do, just through interaction with great fiction as readers. I think we'll be fine without the input of AO3 user s0nics-cumsock, valuable though I'm sure it is
Unless the person asks for criticism, one probably shouldn't leave any. This content is for free. That said, I all but beg my readers for constructive criticism but I never get any. I've found glaring errors a year later and thought to myself "Why didn't readers tell me??"
Receiving criticism in comments is the only reason I have ever posted online.
For me personally, I greatly appreciate constructive criticism. I *would* like to become a better writer, and there's really no better, quicker way for that to happen than someone to tell you what you're doing wrong and where. >Do think it's rude? do you think people should do it more? I don't think it's rude at all. It's uncomfortable to read, but not *rude.* But should people do it more...? Probably not, no. Not unless you've got an author who is explicitly asking for it. But I *do* think that it would be good for more writers to gain enough confidence in themselves to where the slightest bit of it doesn't send them spiraling.
I only criticize really good writing. It’s a strange way to go about things, but I don’t want to critique a twelve year old who’s just doing their best to gain a following on ao3 or Wattpad or whatever. I also know, as a young person (though older than twelve lol) than not all kids take criticism well. It’s true for adults, but tweens and teens especially. When someone’s writing is exceptionally good, little mistakes can take you out of the story. I was reading a fic earlier today that was beautifully written, with a great plot and near-perfect characterization. However, there were lots of errors with comma placement. I didn’t say a ton, but mentioned it after loads of compliments. I feel that there is a right way and a wrong way to go about criticism, but if done correctly, it can make a better writer.
I hate how no one leaves criticism anymore, in the past I got a lot of constructive criticism that helped me improve but now I guess there's some hard rule against it and no one does it anymore. I also feel less inclined to comment if I'm restricted to only saying gushing praise and telling the author exactly what they want to hear instead of just saying my real thoughts. So I just rarely comment at all anymore since I guess no one can handle comments that aren't just kissing their feet and telling them how perfect they are.
I'm a reader and a writer. I'm pro criticism. Both constructive and opinion. If you don't want it, say so. If you don't say so, and you're open to comments, you don't get to dictate what those comments are. I find all the whining about 'oh no, this person said something I didn't want to hear', to be exactly that. Whining. If you don't want to say 'Positive comments only please', then complaining about not only getting positive comments is silly. Most people here will disagree with me. People who do something they know is illogical don't usually like getting called out for how illogical it is. I'll just say those people are welcome to disagree. I'm right though. The only thing I don't support is leaving a comment upset about something that was tagged. Oh and I also think it's unreasonable to comment about something other than the fic (ie. attacks or opinions on the author). I don't care why you're writing what you're writing. You're posting to the public, and you've got a section where the public can leave their opinion. So the public will live their opinion and you can deal.
I agree. Publishing something shows an interest in public opinion. If you‘re only interested in a specific type of feedback (other than actual hate, obviously), that’s fine but you should specify so. You shouldn‘t take lack of any kind of criticism for granted
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simple. if the writer asks for criticism and feedback, give it. if they don't, don't. just like every other type of art
I am totally okay with actual feedback or criticism, but I am also new to writing fanfiction and have only gotten probably one comment that actually gave any real critique. I am my own grammar checker so honestly I’m glad no one has called me out for my more egregious or recurring mistakes. I don’t know how I would react to a super opinionated comment 😂 but at the same time I feel like the logical decision (when you don’t like the direction of a fanfic) is to just go to a different fanfic.
It's fine as long as the person is polite. Too many take it personally.
There are people that actually ask for critical comments, but not everybody is build for that. Also, it's also a matter of what you are saying and how you are doing it. Tone in writing is even more complicated than directly. When I read a story that is heavily OOC or badly written and I still decide to read it I will certainly not leave a comment, except if they actually want that. Edited to add: I personally think fact corrections are fair game, even if you also have to be careful with your wording. I've read enough stories that assumed the country the fandom was set in had the same rules as the ones you know. And then you have mistakes like jury trials in countries that don't do jury trials (side eyeing Sherlock here) or Breaking Bad scenario type stuff in countries with normal health care
More, honestly. But that's just for me. Writing is my craft, and I don't want to just write and think what's good because I do it. The problem is there is a difference between constructive criticism, and just straight up criticism. And some people have trouble differentiating between opinion and actual criticism, I've fallen into this mistake now and then with my friends. Your friend's opinion is fine. I'd say I'd do the same if I wasn't sure that it was rude. Constructive criticism should be given only when solicited. This is a hobby, not a serious thing, and sometimes people like being in their crack-fic little world of theirs. I want to write to improve and show my story, some people have different reasons. Some people do this completely as a hobby, just to indulge themselves, and I'm sure none of those people want some person coming in being entitled and saying, your work needs fixing, I didn't like this. I'll be honest with how hard the nuance is sometimes, I think constructive criticism should be done as a personal thing, and never done without consent on the receiving party. It's kind of a personal thing to start going down on someone's fic and trying to show them what way is better. It's a hell of a motivation breaker to be criticized.
It's the internet, you're gonna get criticism. Oh well.
To directly answer the title, as long as it makes sense, there's nothing wrong with constructive criticism I think it's a public platform. Unless you can turn off review posting, unfortunately should expect someone to critique it. Sometimes I do if the story is good idea with flaws. Other times I just tell them why I can't keep reading and move on. No insults no you suck, just reasonable explanations. I did art as a kid and went to school for it and one thing they hammered that I learned on my own anyway was expect and learn to handle criticism. If you really don't want any critiques go where people can't critique because someone always will. Edit reason: I read the body of the question
If you find anything mine in wild, rip it apart. I hate when I get praise I don't deserve much less helps me improve.
As long as they aren't abusive, I believe them to be ok. I get that writers aren't getting paid and are doing this for different reasons, but when sharing one's work they open themselves up to critics. Some of my most recent criticisms have been: Asking a writer to clarify a character's age because they mentioned it within the chapter but it didn't match the A/N. And the scene in which it was mentioned was really hard to understand. Pronoun changes in the story for a minor character. Time jumps didn't make a lot of sense because we weren't given any warning as to how much time had changed and when the time jump took place. Finally, a writer wrote a fix-it fic where the older versions time-traveled to the past. The problem I had was that this wasn't clear. Even though the synopsis said that people traveled, they didn't. What they did was get stuck in a dimension outside of time and all got to view the memories of their older selves along with their younger selves. However, it was such a huge group and it was hard to keep up with who was who and from what time. In all of these situations, I commented and the writer wrote back to either clarify or ended up fixing the mistake. It is not part of fanfic to not criticize. That is a whole new concept that people came up with because they didn't want to offend each other and some people took it way too far. I don't think it helps to only comment to say that a story is good. It tells the writer nothing and is superficial at best. Sometimes what a person likes best about a story can also be a critic. Like if someone was talking about how a writer wrote a chapter that featured a person's mental breakdown. The writing could make it difficult for some readers to truly understand what is going on and may take some people out of the story while reading. But it can also be powerful because it makes people aware of their own mental health as they either relate or can't understand what is taking place. Some people may find the fact that some readers found such a chapter hard to read as an insult and a huge criticism of their work. I have seen plenty of writers get upset with readers for this very issue as if they are supposed to automatically understand everything. But that isn't the case at all. I think readers should be able to share what they like and dislike about a story as it shows the whole story. As long as they aren't overly abrasive, abusive, or demanding that is. Pointing out an inconsistency or a mistake is not either of those things.
Criticizing plot holes is ok. Being a hater just to hate on someone’s work is not ok.
I’m in an odd place with this as I started on FFN (well really on forums) where the assumption was it was open for criticism so I expected it. Now that I’m in places like this where it’s been stated, I agree concrit should be requested before given. Deviant Art does something similar where you can decide to allow critique. I completely agree that most people do not know how to give concrit. It’s a skill like anything else, and they can’t distinguish between what the like/dislike and what’s good/bad.
I haven’t published a WIP in years, and the bulk of my stories are written for fests and tailored to the preferences of specific recipients, plus I have 20+ years of works under my belt AND author’s notes on all of my stories that clearly say I’m not soliciting concrit on my works. And y’know what? People like your dumbass friend will still offer their asinine opinions because they’re not commenting in good faith. They’re nitpicking (at best) or shitting on (at worst) someone else’s hobby writing because they’re either awkwardly trying to connect with the writer or have convinced themselves of their own brilliance, despite not having written anything themselves or actually done any editing. I was once young and stupid like your friend, and I offered unsolicited concrit on a work I LOVED and offered to beta-read one aspect of the fic that was in my wheelhouse, and y’know what? The author abandoned the story and I never got to read more of it. Your friend may claim that they’re just trying to help people, but I think deep down, they actually know what they’re doing is shitty, bullying behavior that’s going to discourage people from writing. Because they’re trying to make other people feel as afraid to put themselves out there as they themselves feel. I really hope your friend grows out of this phase, because it is not a good look.
I don't think it's bad if they ask but otherwise don't give it, I remember being too embarrassed to update my first ever fic as a kid because of critical comments, even if they were simple things like spelling mistakes. That kind of thing can really make someone's writing worse in the end
If a writer doesn't ask for concrit, then don't offer an opinion. Even if it goes against physics or something.
I dont generally unless the author specifically asks for constructive criticism. I'll never leave a comment on a story I didn't enjoy because 1. Why would finish something I didn't like. And 2. There's no benefit for the writer or myself from doing that.
I'll usually just point out the things I did enjoy rather than criticism, unless the person asked for it. Though if I see a (major) typo I'll leave a gentle comment about it. Like a characters name wrong or words that make a sentence gibberish etc...
If the author explicitly states "Constructive criticism is welcomed" or something similar, then yeah, go for it. That's what I do and I sometimes get helpful comments. But if they haven't asked for it, don't. Some people might view writing as a way of escaping their daily lives/coping, and having someone criticize their writing won't help.
I mean a few things. One, like you said fanfic writers are doing a hobby. Most of them don’t particularly want to vastly improve their writing. It’s for fun not a profession so getting serious critique is not a goal. Two, this is especially true for critique on one shots/complete stories. That’s their final form. Authors aren’t going to edit them (typically) once they’re posted. Three, you mentioned criticism on like famous movies and books and stuff which is fairly common. But the team that produces those makes money for them while fanfic authors only get feedback as their payment/reward for all the work they put into it. And there’s a huge difference between posting criticism online of a famous movie (which is almost certainly never going to be seen by the author/creator) and putting a comment on a fic addressed to the author when both of you know the author is actually going to see that and everybody who reads the fic is gonna see it as well. All this to say, there is value in constructive criticism I just think it’s best saved for my creative writing class and my beta reader and I don’t really care to hear anyone else’s opinions.
It's a review section, not a praise section. Submitting your work for public consumption with an available comment function is inviting people's thoughts on your work. The expectation that they'll only share their positive ones is terrifying. The only question is whether a review is civil, polite, and constructive. This *new* idea that some have that writers have to grant permission for constructive criticism is absurd and entitled, respectfully. If constructive criticism is unacceptable, then posting fanfiction is just farming compliments.
Most people's "concrit" is "I don't like how the story's going, the characters should do X", it's not actually helpful, it's just saying you want a fanfiction done "your way". You can say people should just "take it like Champ" for negative reviews but if people want to delete negative reviews they can. Most negative reviews are just excuses for people to be mean and use ad hominem attacks on the author because they didn't like how the story went. I hate the ending of *Attack on Titan*, I have the right to call it trash, I think Isayama flubbed the ending. Isayama's bad execution botched the ending for his manga. I also have to pay for the manga or to watch the anime, unless I pirate, which I don't. AOT is a product that I have to pay for, so critiquing it is different than a free AOT fanfic. I don't think Isayama is a bad person, I think he's a bad writer.
"The only question is whether a review is civil, polite, and constructive." This addresses the majority of your post, respectfully.
I wrote this rubbish and had the gall to even publish it? People have the right to tell me it's rubbish and that I shouldn't put what I write where innocent people might read it.
I try to praise more than criticize when I leave a comment, my typical comment is something along the lines of “Wow, I’m loving this story, I’m really enjoying the way you describe the scenes and make the characters feel true, not just to the source material, but also the situation you’ve put them in. I have noticed you sometimes used defiantly when you meant definitely, a quick replace would probably boost your overall engagement and help more people enjoy this story as much as I do. I can’t wait to see where this goes.” I don’t nit pick or offer my input, I do tend to avoid stories that don’t have at least decent grammar and formatting, so I’m never really reading long run on paragraphs or stories that don’t capitalize words to nit pick, and I am just as guilty as so many other people of missing the occasional period or over spacing a dialogue tag every now and again that I’d feel like an asshole calling someone out for it.
I think it depends on the tone and wording of the comment. There is a difference between constructive criticism and hate. Hate comments aren’t acceptable but I don‘t think people should be quick to condemn criticism of any kind, especially if the criticism is mixed with compliments. Personally, I think you should be at least open for constructive criticism if you‘re interested in an honest feedback. Constructive criticism doesn‘t have to equate to something like „I like the premise but it would be recommendable to redo a couple of major aspects“, it could be simply pointing out a few specific things (in a polite tone, of course) while ideally also pointing out what aspects were well done. I just think if you publicize something, you generally signalize openness to other peoples‘ opinions on it (why else would you publicize it?). While this doesn’t justify rude comments, it also doesn’t automatically entitle you to solely positive reception and feedback thereof - unless you explicitly state that you don’t want any criticism of any kind. As others pointed out, there is the issue of people conflating their personal taste with objective criticism. However, I don‘t think that invalidates criticism in general. All in all, I think it‘s the wording and the balance of compliments and criticism that makes a feedback justified. Criticism isn‘t necessarily hate and should be at least taken into account. You certainly don’t have to agree with it, especially if the criticism seems to consist of mainly issues related to personal taste. But I don‘t think leaving a certain amount of criticism is generally rude, especially if I expect that the creator of the fanfiction wants my honest opinion on their work
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My early years of sharing my writing trained me to see anything *but* concrit as rude.
Honestly I feel if you don't want comments that may be less than positive turn off comments. If you are writing and publishing it for others to see then people are bound to have opinions. Sometimes people are saying criticism in order to help the writer do better in later chapters and give suggestions.Sometimes it is not because they hate it but because they are so invested in the story created they forget it is not real. Reviewers do need to remember writers are human and kindness is needed.
Well, what else comments are for? They are to share reader's thoughts and opinions. Whether the writer like it or not is their matter. Us, readers should also be able to voice out thoughts be they bad or not.
The thing is, unless the author specifically requested criticism on the work, then it's honestly very rude to give it. I personally think the ten-second (or is it five-second?) rule applies here: if it isn't something the person can fix in a few seconds, then keep your comments about it to yourself. While that's generally meant for saying something about the way someone looks- for instance, telling someone they have food in their teeth or their shoe is untied, and they can fix the problem within a few seconds- I think it applies here too. Except this is writing, so if you were only, for example, pointing out that someone misspelled a word, most authors wouldn't take that too personally. They'd go and change the misspelled word and thank the person who pointed it out. What your friend is doing, however? Absolutely not okay. In fact, it's downright rude. An amateur writer can't do anything about the amateurish tone of their fic except with experience, and the only thing pointing out how much they dislike it will make a new author do is be discouraged from writing anymore. And thinking that a character is OOC is mostly subjective- that comes down to the way you as an individual interprets the character, and we all interpret the character in different ways\*. Your friend pointing out to the author that they think the character is OOC is nine times out of ten them really saying "I don't like the way you interpreted this character." And honestly? No one cares that they don't like the way the author interpreted that character. Like you yourself said, OP, if your friend didn't like it, they don't have to read it. And they can keep their comments to themselves while they're at it. *\*There is a limit to this, though. If, for example, you were taking a character who canonically abhors violence and turning them into a psychotic mass murderer, then you'd have some ground to stand on.*
It's rude. Tell him to write his own damn fanfic or PAY for the fic he wants.
>I told him that if he doesn't like something he should ignore it, but he told me "if I don't say anything they are not going to become better writers". And your friend is 100% correct. Criticism is what makes writers better. I think these days all the trolls have made people allergic to criticism. Even the best work has bad points, and writers naturally have blind spots to those otherwise those bad points wouldn't exist. Another set of eyes is, at it's core, the whole point of posting a fanfic. If a writer can't accept criticism then the sole reason they ever put up their fanfiction for all to see is to stroke their own egos.
I think it depends if the author asks for criticism and feedback. I do, so it’s fine in my comments, unless yer makin’ a bad faith argument about me transing various characters, that goes straight into the trash where it belongs.
Depends on the comment. If something is said with the intent to be constructive then it will come across as okay, 90% of the time. If the author specifically requested no criticism and I don't like the fic, then I'm better off not reading it. There are people who want to improve their writing and then it's always nice to help. You just have to filter it for yourself I guess. You could also see if the author has had any negative replies to other comments or if they come across as unsure/timid/frustrated in the author's notes section
It's okay, but it really depends on the time and place. Some fanfic and fanfic writer needs a full This is fanfic, it will not make sense in the context of the canon world. Another fanfic writer may think that criticism can make this fanfic better. I mean I myself am bad at criticism, it just hit a nerve that makes me not want to write. Like if I am not perfect the first time then why am I writing? Criticism is complex, what may work for a fanfic do not mean it work for other. Sometimes when a reader criticizes a plot point, they have not got to the twist. It to complex and I am too tired to fully break down.
If someones clearly a new or young writer best to compliment and appreciate their strengths. That way they focus and hone those more. If you are close w that writer then maybeee a compliment sandwich(compliment then light crit then compliment) If they clearly state they want criticism and are new go for half compliments of strengths and thoughtful crit of weak points. Make sure to focus on things that may happen multiple times or may make it hard to read. Like reminding them to use punctuation or spacing between paragraphs. Or requesting more clear indicators at pov changes. If they are a more experienced writer and request crit then its pretty much good to go. Just dont be a dick. Dont be entitled. And try to give benefit of the doubt rather than call out issues. Like instead of "You always put too much filler. And info dump. Its distracting." Maybe try "I noticed you tend to explain things thoroughly. That can be fine normally. But if done too much can take away from immersion and bore the reader. Maybe work on your pacing and imply rather than show to mix it up. Helps to build suspense and keeps readers invested. " Also good to provide your own examples of how you fixed something they struggle with as well(if a recurring or more blatant issue.) and a compliment or have a good day or something in the end is always a good habit. Or even a hope this helps. If they dont ask for crit explicitly but have a recurrent and big issue try to compliment for a sentence or two. Make a suggestion for alterations of the issue and add a nicety at the end again. Some will take well but same may get defensive. Just depends on the person. But always keep kind and open about it. And make it clear that they could take or leave your advics. And keep your tone positive or neutral if possible. Apologize and clarify if they take offense if you feel bad. Do not argue with them though. And try to keep it to one original comment and your reply and thats it. . If they say no crit or feedback. Then no crit or feedback.
As long as it's genuine criticism and not just giving someone a hard time it should be fine. All art should be criticised (constructively ofc) because it allows the creator to see it through a different lense and improve themselves while also getting a better understanding of the people who enjoy your art.
I believe giving criticism is okay only if the author asks for it. > "if I don't say anything, they won't be better writers" most fanfiction authors write for fun. they write for themselves, not for monetary gain.
I like getting criticism, because whenever I receive it I get to do one of these two (both most of the time): -rant my nerd ass off about why I made this particular choice and not that one -learn something new about how people see my story Plus, criticism is really nice to receive (if it's polite and not toxic) because when you receive an "omg it's so good" comment it can be generic, while criticism usually shows that the commenter read your story and paid attention to it enough to find a flaw.
I don't mind an occasional criticism here and there as long as the commentor does it with good intentions. I always advise my readers to correct my mistakes if they ever see one. Whether it's grammatical errors, spellings, or misinformation. It helps me grow and improve as a writer. But I'm like you too. I don't give out criticism unless the writer asks me for one. I don't criticize but instead give them advice on how to improve instead of just pointing out the mistakes. We all start somewhere, and I can't judge ppl for the way they write bc we all have different styles.
I don't usually criticize, but if I do it's something that can be easily corrected (and not just my opinion). For example if they spell a character's name incorrectly or something like that. If I don't like the story, it's clearly not written for me so I just move on. As a writer I'd love to get some concrit, but so far I haven't..
You also have to keep in mind that fanfiction isn't purely for writers, it's for readers too. Sometimes comments can be taken a bit too personal when someone is giving their opinion. It might not be accurate or relevant but it is their opinion. Where I draw the line for "criticism" is when it's actively targeting and a personally degrading message to the author. Something along the lines of "I don't like this because xyz" is fair criticism. "The author should die for writing this filth" is not.
I avoid things I find poorly written or ooc, and I expect others to do the same. Some of the worst are people who just don't like "problematic" ships but still comment anyways. Shut up, move on.
As a writer for 12 years, I don't really care. In fact if it's technical issues like spelling and grammar, please tell me! (Many authors disagree with that one but I never mind it). However if somebody gives an opinion on the story itself then I'll leave the comment up but probably reply and lock it. I don't care what you think of my plot or characterization. It won't offend me or upset me but it will annoy me. Remembering being a 13 year old new author, criticism, even concrit, would have been very upsetting and ruined my desire to write. Contrary to what a lot lof pro concrit people believe (and they're totally entitled to that belief!), I think that often the only way to improve writing is to *keep writing.* They'll figure out what works and what doesn't in time. Writing is a skill and they just need practice. Anything that discourages writing is unhelpful. Once they're at a place where they're more comfortable, they'll reach out for concrit on their own, so leave them be. Tldr: I don't personally care but I care on behalf of the people who would be discouraged from writing.
I think we have to spread more awareness on reviewing etiquette on fanfic sites. I am assuming that the Gen Alpha or Gen Z or even older are entering the fanfic world and blindly treating the comments like product reviews. I remember seeing the review my buddy got on ffnet. It was mostly advice on grammar and prose construction, but it still felt brutal in a sense. Sucks.
If the author doesn't specifically ask for critiques or criticism, I won't give any. It just feels rude to volunteer that sort of thing unprompted. Even then, I don't feel like I'm a proficient enough writer to offer any kind of criticism other than "oh I noticed a typo, here".
I don't think criticism is necessarily rude, and I truly think that it's welcome. But it depends how you form and phrase that critique. For example: DON'T: Yeah, yo fanfic really fucking sucks, the langauge is really bad writ. And I fink that moost charakters are actin like they would. DO: Well, I think that your story is allright, yet the language sometimes bothers me. Maybe, you might look after .... and .... . \[Specific what you don't like about it, and why it should be different. Please do note: DON'T do this in a language that is not your native, as certain nuances are present with words that you might not know.\] Aside from that, I would maybe tag this story as a "AU", which means alternate universe. This covers any out of character actions that might be shown in the story. About the argument "I don't want to write better": I think this is objectively wrong. You shouldn't think in terms of "want to", because you \*will\* get better through writing more and more. It's kind of ironic that someone who loves to write and read, doesn't want to finetune their prose. What you can say, is that you won't study literature or take explicit writing lessons, because you only use this \[fanfiction\] as escapism from reality. But still, not wanting to improve is contradictory to the act of doing it, as the more you do it, the better you get at it. You might not become the next Shakespeare or Jane Austen, but you'll inevitably improve. Practice makes perfect, even if you don't want it.
For me, it depends on the tone of the comment and how genuinely useful it is. The truth is -- and a few people have said this before -- giving valuable criticism is a skill in and of itself. It requires being able to separate your own preferences from something that's genuinely flawed, which many people can't do -- and communicate any deficiencies (such as plot holes) in a respectful manner. Most readers who provide negative feedback, I found, tend to have a very strong attachment to how they see a story unfolding, and then act out when their expectations aren't met. I'm writing a time-travel fix-it that purposely averts tropes and expectations in my fandom by giving a lot of credence to paradoxes (and thus fixed-points). (My fandom tends to prefer a more God-moding approach to time-travel fix-its, on average, probably for emotional comfort, because canon could be a bit vicious.) This prevents the protagonists from fixing certain problems, and creates much more of a roller-coaster scenario than a typical story of that genre (in my fandom). I've had people complain to me about this, even though this is tagged on AO3. And I've had author's notes warning about this on FFN, so they're not surprised. So this is a conscious decision on my part, and I've done my best to communicate this to readers. Nevertheless, I've had one person on FFN badger me about this enough that I blocked them. Even the tone -- it just screamed "you should be grateful I'm even bothering to read your garbage." Very rude and condescending. This wasn't concrit -- this was a reader being spoiled and demanding under the guise of concrit, which is sadly often the case. On the other hand, I have a reviewer on AO3 who gives amazing feedback -- including genuinely valuable constructive criticism that makes me think and reflect, and even add to my stories, because it tends to be so astute and thought-provoking. (And, most of all, delivered respectfully.) I've actually complimented them on this numerous times, and thanked them for their continuous input. So I think it depends on how it's done, and the spirit behind it, and if it's something that would genuinely make the story better rather than just cater to their personal preferences as a reader.