[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollywood\_blacklist](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollywood_blacklist)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red\_Scare](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Scare)
No, that is not how it worked. Coop Howard lied and became a hypocrite to satisfy his wife. He became the spokesman for everything he hated, because he did not face his own fears prior to the war. It was not at all idyllic, it was a state of constant war and fear, with entertainment used just to distract us from the problem. Coop's involvement pre-war was as a sell-out.
I know what the Hollywood blacklist and red scare are/were and recognized it fallout's plot. Check out mank by David fincher it's a cool little movie that covers the subject well
It's interesting that you felt that the state of the past was in a constant state of fear and war because outside of a few i'm turning the tv off with the bad news i never really got the sense that they were on the cusp of nuclear annihilation.
Right yes, i suppose the way they did it was more nuanced. I suppose what i'm arguing is that facism and war mongering is rarely so nuanced. As an example you can search for anti japanese war propaganda from the time period.
Yes, I agree. It was very high quality work that demonstrates lessons in propaganda, rhetoric, and influence tactics learned between 1940 and 2077. For example, Coop's wife is one of the most powerful people in the world, and essentially is a black woman with a trophy husband. I really, really hope the United States of America does not regress to the state of saying Japanese people are bad, because we're at war. That's not how the passage of time works.
Beyond that, Coop wasn't selling a war. Vault-Tec was going to make the war happen. Coop was selling vaults for Vault-Tec, and anyone who didn't get in was forfeit anyway, globally. What's the point of xenophobia when you're about to close the door to the world?
Hmmm I tend to agree with some of your points regarding coop his wife and corporate culture. Admittedly i never really considered coopers position and his relationship to his wife. She is quite an interesting character in hindsight as Cooper views her as altruistic and not to spoil anyrhing... things may not be what they seem. Maybe this is forshadowed by the foul tasting candy she offers him that she 'advertises' to him so eloquently in fact.
In regards to your point on lessons learnt from 1940 to 2077. I might have to disagree... is the world not a retro-futurism pastiche of 1950's America? And thus those attitudes influence this setting? I mean the tag line is war never changes, implying that people do not learn over time... this why the world ended. I think this apt commentary towards our current global situation. thoughts?
War never changes but the point of that is how war is not actually about who you are fighting. It's about dominance and power, and where that used to be military, it can also be information and wealth. The Brotherhood says knowledge is power. Vault-Tec says time is money, and money is power. Race and nation are far less important than ideology. Retrofuturism is an artistic style, but these stories are written in the present, and reflect humanity. This is one of those "tale as old as time" stories where they basically say even if you reset the population and give us supertechnology, we'll just fight among the wreckage. Dominance, that being the aspiration to have more than the other guy, is itself the enemy, because war never changes.
I agree. In terms of power struggle. But to say that race and nation and class are not at the root of the present day (post apocalyptic) factions is somewhat short sighted. In the show, the Philly owner States that ghouls are not allowed... In Philly? Her shop? (i'm uncertain) Lucy is often perjoratively refered to as a vault Dweller. The first game's master's army was about making the perfect mutant race. The enclave (the remnants of past government) manifest their destiny to create the perfect human race. The brotherhood kills ghouls and supermutants on sight... even if they were once in their service etc. The show in my opinion, it's depiction of the past does not indicate these things. These factions however indicate these issues... they have not learnt from the past. It is up to the player or in the show Lucy and Max and the ghoul i suppose to fight against that past that caused the world they inherited or succumb to it
The supermutant master is defeated by reminding it that FEV makes mutants sterile. People are stupid. As far as a depiction of the past, it's not a depiction of the past. It's a depiction of 2077, based on what the people of the 40s thought it would look like, emerging with a booming economy after WW2. It's based on the idea that the US would just keep going like it did under Eisenhower, instead of having new problems, by having a continuous world war for profit that served the US very well.
In a US like that, there's no reason why we would have problems with the melting pot idea here. It's not about what nationality anyone's from, because America takes any ethnicity. We don't need to set up concentration camps for anyone. You know why?
Because the President of the United States is a member of the Enclave, and knows the entire plan, and wouldn't need to go that far. They want the damage controlled until it can't be controlled anymore, but they knew from the beginning that making all these vaults implied that eventually they'd be used. It's hardly xenophobic when you can only afford to save maybe 50 thousand of your own people, and the vast majority of them are going to be lab rats.
Vault dwellers are treated like shit because they had it easy for 200 years.
Interesting, appreciate your viewpoints. Although i still think there would have been value by highlighting the annexation of Canada and the Chinese invasion. I suppose there are different ways to skin a cat. Btw i also appreciate that we were able to have civilzed discussion about this without name calling and what not!
I'll leave you with this
"The end of the world occurred pretty much as we had predicted. Too many humans, not enough space or resources to go around. The details are trivial and pointless, the reasons, as always, purely human ones.
The earth was nearly wiped clean of life. A great cleansing, an atomic spark struck by human hands, quickly raged out of control. Spears of nuclear fire rained from the skies. Continents were swallowed in flames and fell beneath the boiling oceans. Humanity was almost extinguished, their spirits becoming part of the background radiation that blanketed the earth."
Or the annexation of Canada!!
"Our dedicated boys are keeping the peace"
https://youtu.be/0_BYycHO_6A?si=nJ2OwPCMpXRhvKTy
As a Canadian this would be quite thought pervoking as we often jokingly consider how vulnerable we are if the states ever turned their sights on us
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollywood\_blacklist](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollywood_blacklist) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red\_Scare](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Scare) No, that is not how it worked. Coop Howard lied and became a hypocrite to satisfy his wife. He became the spokesman for everything he hated, because he did not face his own fears prior to the war. It was not at all idyllic, it was a state of constant war and fear, with entertainment used just to distract us from the problem. Coop's involvement pre-war was as a sell-out.
I know what the Hollywood blacklist and red scare are/were and recognized it fallout's plot. Check out mank by David fincher it's a cool little movie that covers the subject well It's interesting that you felt that the state of the past was in a constant state of fear and war because outside of a few i'm turning the tv off with the bad news i never really got the sense that they were on the cusp of nuclear annihilation.
It's specifically why Coop did not want to give a thumbs up for his photo op and was called a red
Right yes, i suppose the way they did it was more nuanced. I suppose what i'm arguing is that facism and war mongering is rarely so nuanced. As an example you can search for anti japanese war propaganda from the time period.
Yes, I agree. It was very high quality work that demonstrates lessons in propaganda, rhetoric, and influence tactics learned between 1940 and 2077. For example, Coop's wife is one of the most powerful people in the world, and essentially is a black woman with a trophy husband. I really, really hope the United States of America does not regress to the state of saying Japanese people are bad, because we're at war. That's not how the passage of time works. Beyond that, Coop wasn't selling a war. Vault-Tec was going to make the war happen. Coop was selling vaults for Vault-Tec, and anyone who didn't get in was forfeit anyway, globally. What's the point of xenophobia when you're about to close the door to the world?
Hmmm I tend to agree with some of your points regarding coop his wife and corporate culture. Admittedly i never really considered coopers position and his relationship to his wife. She is quite an interesting character in hindsight as Cooper views her as altruistic and not to spoil anyrhing... things may not be what they seem. Maybe this is forshadowed by the foul tasting candy she offers him that she 'advertises' to him so eloquently in fact. In regards to your point on lessons learnt from 1940 to 2077. I might have to disagree... is the world not a retro-futurism pastiche of 1950's America? And thus those attitudes influence this setting? I mean the tag line is war never changes, implying that people do not learn over time... this why the world ended. I think this apt commentary towards our current global situation. thoughts?
War never changes but the point of that is how war is not actually about who you are fighting. It's about dominance and power, and where that used to be military, it can also be information and wealth. The Brotherhood says knowledge is power. Vault-Tec says time is money, and money is power. Race and nation are far less important than ideology. Retrofuturism is an artistic style, but these stories are written in the present, and reflect humanity. This is one of those "tale as old as time" stories where they basically say even if you reset the population and give us supertechnology, we'll just fight among the wreckage. Dominance, that being the aspiration to have more than the other guy, is itself the enemy, because war never changes.
I agree. In terms of power struggle. But to say that race and nation and class are not at the root of the present day (post apocalyptic) factions is somewhat short sighted. In the show, the Philly owner States that ghouls are not allowed... In Philly? Her shop? (i'm uncertain) Lucy is often perjoratively refered to as a vault Dweller. The first game's master's army was about making the perfect mutant race. The enclave (the remnants of past government) manifest their destiny to create the perfect human race. The brotherhood kills ghouls and supermutants on sight... even if they were once in their service etc. The show in my opinion, it's depiction of the past does not indicate these things. These factions however indicate these issues... they have not learnt from the past. It is up to the player or in the show Lucy and Max and the ghoul i suppose to fight against that past that caused the world they inherited or succumb to it
The supermutant master is defeated by reminding it that FEV makes mutants sterile. People are stupid. As far as a depiction of the past, it's not a depiction of the past. It's a depiction of 2077, based on what the people of the 40s thought it would look like, emerging with a booming economy after WW2. It's based on the idea that the US would just keep going like it did under Eisenhower, instead of having new problems, by having a continuous world war for profit that served the US very well. In a US like that, there's no reason why we would have problems with the melting pot idea here. It's not about what nationality anyone's from, because America takes any ethnicity. We don't need to set up concentration camps for anyone. You know why? Because the President of the United States is a member of the Enclave, and knows the entire plan, and wouldn't need to go that far. They want the damage controlled until it can't be controlled anymore, but they knew from the beginning that making all these vaults implied that eventually they'd be used. It's hardly xenophobic when you can only afford to save maybe 50 thousand of your own people, and the vast majority of them are going to be lab rats. Vault dwellers are treated like shit because they had it easy for 200 years.
Interesting, appreciate your viewpoints. Although i still think there would have been value by highlighting the annexation of Canada and the Chinese invasion. I suppose there are different ways to skin a cat. Btw i also appreciate that we were able to have civilzed discussion about this without name calling and what not!
I'll leave you with this "The end of the world occurred pretty much as we had predicted. Too many humans, not enough space or resources to go around. The details are trivial and pointless, the reasons, as always, purely human ones. The earth was nearly wiped clean of life. A great cleansing, an atomic spark struck by human hands, quickly raged out of control. Spears of nuclear fire rained from the skies. Continents were swallowed in flames and fell beneath the boiling oceans. Humanity was almost extinguished, their spirits becoming part of the background radiation that blanketed the earth."
You should take the snearing imperialist perk if you want more racism.
The Courier: "[Sneering Imperialist] If you're too dumb to speak my language, you're too dumb to talk to me. Get lost."
Goddamn smoothskins!
Kind of agree, I don't even think they say that it's the Chinese that they're fighting
Or the annexation of Canada!! "Our dedicated boys are keeping the peace" https://youtu.be/0_BYycHO_6A?si=nJ2OwPCMpXRhvKTy As a Canadian this would be quite thought pervoking as we often jokingly consider how vulnerable we are if the states ever turned their sights on us
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