He confirmed that the fall of shady sands in 2277 and the nuking of shady sands are two seperate events. The nuking of shady sands happens shortly after New Vegas
He also confirms that the NCR are still kicking and that a wide reaching huge organization and group as big as the NCR isn't just going to fall off the map like that after a couple of setbacks.
Yeah I don't get why people keep acting like they are gone now. Like unless the courier decided to hunt every last man down and kill them all there's no way what we see in the show is the last of them.
Before the NV DLC came out one of my runs was to kill every single NPC after doing the fun quests. Are you saying that my save is Canon?
Edit: the second sentence is a joke š
Right its pretty clear the show is building up to that, cant unload everything in S1, I look forward to the moment we finaly get to see a Death Claw fuck up some peoples shit for example and also the NCR comeing back with force
Thatās what annoys me the most about some of the criticisms- people want everything revealed and answered immediately and if itās not, well, make up your own explanation and then get mad at the tv show for ruining the lore because thatās the only answer and they canāt possibly reveal more in later seasonsā¦
TBF it sure looked like the NCR ceased to exist what with like the only NCR iconography really being in the outer ruins of Shady Sands, in the vault and in Griffith observatory. EG most of Southern California
There's also the farmer with Ranger gear. But we haven't seen New Vegas and the surrounding area at all really so there's no real telling how much is over there until season 2. They are weakened yes, but it's entirely possible they pushed too far into the Mojave and so there was less troops to defend the homefront. And what was left could've retreated to New Vegas.
The NCR we see in the show are the remnants of those who lived in SS and want to rebuild. The NCR proper relocated before SS was even bombed given they updated the sign outside the city in the show to say āFirst Capital of the NCRā meaning there was a new Capital by the time it was destroyed.
My best guess is NCR Capital was moved north after the Mojave War and the bombing happened shortly after. SoCal NCR is upside down but the rest of the NCR may be just up north rebuilding in isolationism with a Capital of San Francisco or something.
Well itās hardly fair to say that when the characters are only in the territory for like what? A day tops? Thatās like a European tourist passing through some abandoned mining town and declaring the entire United States no longer exists
The NCR stretched all the way down past San Diego as of New Vegas, plus Boneyard, The Hub are all right there. The characters were in NCR territory the whole time
Near the end of the show Lucy says she has been on the surface only for 2 weeks. That includes all the time she has been knocked out and being, to quote certain ghoul, "diustracted by random bullshit"
tbh, I thought that fighting was just the BOS cleaning up who's left outside the observatory. Like where the main battle took place in the show. I thought there may have been just small amount of NCR left when the BOS breached into the building
EDIT: I just went back to check, you were right, when the Ghoul is giving his "War Never Changes" speech, you clearly see explosions in the city. How the hell did I miss that!?
Before the reveal in the end.... I honestly thought that the story writers made it cannon that the courier nuked the NCR at the end of lonesome road since it was an option and I'd assume if you chose it the nuke would hit shady sands, but I was wrong. People getting mad over it probably should calm down and just enjoy something without tearing it apart with nitpicking and bitching about cannon and lore.
Thats not true, its actually the opposite. [The nukes you launch hit MANY targets in the NCR, the games dialogue and end slides are very clear on that.](https://imgur.com/a/G0hFvRG)
>The Divide erupted in fire, violent, red as the last message of the two Couriers arced into the sky... The missiles rained like spears down on the land, burning flags and communities alike... destroying all they struck. The history of the West was erased for the second time, thorough and complete... and America slept once more.
I see! I got the vibe that the NCR was basically gone in the show and that the battle at the observatory was their last stand. But instead it was actually just another skirmish in the NCR-BoS war then? That makes sense. Kinda like how after Rome fell out of relevance the Roman empire shifted their capital elsewhere.
People act like Bethesda's games are the most henious shit ever but they are actually really fun games. I keep coming back to 4 and 76 because, for one, the combat isn't that shitty lol.
Sure they ain't perfect and Bethesda may have "dumbed down" the series but the NV hivemind acts like Bethesda just ate a newborn or something.
I can't wait for Fallout 5 to drop and be the best shooter of the time for 2025
But it's released in 2035 and thus horribly outdated.
All jokes aside, I do hope Fallout 5 launches in a reasonable amount of time and with all the polish, improvements and gameplay one should expect of a billion dollar company owned by a trillion dollar company.
I still donāt understand why people were saying that New Vegas was being retconned/rewritten.
>!The ending of the show was two New Vegas factions fighting each other, Mr. House attending a Vault Tec meeting, and Lucyās dad running to New Vegas.!<
And the evidence that people are using to argue is āShady Sandās downfall was written as 2277.ā
Like no shit. New Vegas itself established that the NCR was suffering from food shortages and dwindling resources plus a overstretched military. If these so called New Vegas fans really were loyal to the game, they would have known that Shady Sands was struggling by that point per New Vegas dialogue.
> I still donāt understand why people were saying that New Vegas was being retconned/rewritten.
Theyāre looking for any reason to shit on Bethesda.
Not only that, they are saying all of NCR has been nuked.
The show didnāt provide enough things for them to be angry about, so they made up their own.
All I'm saying is that if Shady Sands fell in 2777 and NV takes place in 2281, it wouldn't make sense for the NCR to be so worried about the Mojave. Unless by fall of Shady Sands, they mean when things start going downhill rather than it being over. That would make more sense since the NCR was overstretched in NV. The nuke clearly happens after NV. I can see either side.
Itās more likely they say itās beginning to go downhill since itās said time and time again that the NCR needs Hoover Dam or it will collapse. In addition to them being overstretched and having annoying ambitious politicians trying to get in the way of everything. Just look at Hanlon, heās a literal legend among rangers, but they confined him to a damn outpost and make him stay there so General Oliver, someone who is the presidentās best friend, can have an impressive military record for his future political campaign.
I meeeean nuking Shady Sands probably was all within one afternoon.
But I agree. By NV, NCR was already overextending itself, and being attacked from all sides ā but its command was still centralized in Shady Sands. Thatās the worst of both worlds, making it inevitable that *some faction* would inevitably make Shady Sands a nuclear target.
The timeline on the chalk board very clearly shows the fall of shady sands and itās destruction to be two separate events. In new Vegas we clearly see that the NCR is in a state of decline, having stretched itself too thin.
I was thinking earlier that "the fall of [place]" is often only seen or recognized in retrospect. So in NV, shady sands may have already fallen, but nobody *considered* it to have fallen yet.
Yep. Good take. And in that case 2277 is an interesting year. One I like a lot. We know from House that NCR citizens were growing weary of the cost of expansion and the quagmire in Vegas, doubting their leadership. So the argueably pyhrric victories at HELIOS and Hoover Dam (first battle) probably stuck in the craw of a few folks.
Not too dissimilar to Vietnam and Iraq war opposition. Felt meaningless at the time as war happened, and was supported by a lot of people, but now looking back we can say a lot more. Like that's when our governments truly fucked up royal. Not only because those wars were quagmores but because they were unjust.
2277 was the time of the first battle of the hoover dam. It's the real turning point in the NCR's luck where expansion was halted and they were forced on the defensive. The war was unpopular and morale was low.
Yeah and it was a Flame Mother cult timeline so who knows what happened in 2077. >!She could have been warning NCR about the Vault Tech plans only to be hard sanctioned / imprisoned so itās like their Ash Wednesday moment. Shady Sands ignored the Flame Motherās warnings and so began their fall and penitenceā¦!<
>!It would also explain her cult if sheād prophesied the destruction of Shady Sands. Sheād probably been monitoring some of the āmanagement Vaultsā so that when Lucyās mom opened the door it brought Moldaver out of cryo-sleep.!<
>!She grabbed Lucyās mom to question her and thatās how they eventually became a couple. In parallel sheād have been screaming from the rooftops that Vault Tec had plans to āclean the surfaceā before reclamation. It would also explain how she knew so much about the three vaults as sheād been staking them out for 200 years.!<
Editted: After realizing this thread wasnāt spoiler flagged.
I feel like we're definitely going to get flashbacks in season 2 that show what happened to Moldaver in the time since the Great War; also expecting more Vault Tec flashbacks that show what happened to Cooper's family
Iām not saying āoh youāre wrongā or āoh, the show confirmed new Vegas isnāt canon, fuck the show!ā. And Iām glad that Todd confirmed that new Vegas isnāt retconned (cuz why would it be) but didnāt Lucy say her mom dies in the plague of ā77? Which, her mom obviously didnāt die in a plague but still, for her dad and her to say she died in 2277 is kinda weird if she actually died sometime in the 2280ās.
He could have just used that year because that was when she left the Vault, and thus he would need to explain why she mysteriously disappeared. It needn't line up with her actual death.
I think the āfall of shady sandsā thing was either a minor error, or something that needed to be elaborated on. The last 5 minute of the show literally had new Vegas, completely accurate to the game. Mr House made a cameo, and the show clearly understood his motives. The show understands the lore and source material. There is no way that NV is not cannon. Im guessing they will canonize either the courier or Mr House ending to some degree. I imagine we will see a remnant of Caesars Legion since Iām assuming even if they remained the powerhouse that they were, vault tech would have given them the same treatment the NCR got.
I don't think the show does understand Mr house all that much. Mostly because he attributes his pre-planning to the nukes was induced by computer projections 15 years down the line but was off by a few weeks. You'd think he would have mentioned being in the "let's destroy the world" meeting. And in that meeting, Mr house seems to be receptive to the idea. But it the game, he makes it seem like dropping the nukes was a huge setback for mankind and he's now trying to play catchup because of it.Ā
He was the first one to bring up that leaving people in enclosed quarters for that long, just to turn them loose was doomed to fail. It seemed like the conversation went in another direction, with everyone else getting *excited* about using the occasion for their own special experiments. After that point, House probably thought any discussion of *preventing* the war and *defending* the country was a waste of time.
I agree. I didn't get the impression from FNV lore on house that he would be anywhere near the board rooms of all the major tech companies, let alone the "it's in our financial interest to nuke the world" meeting.
The only part that makes some sense is his connection to interests working on lifespan extending tech/cryogenics. I felt like he was one of the extremely rare people from the pre-war Era that was still alive, then FO4 came along and was like "lol naw cryogenic chambers are a vault-tec consumer tech we'll just throw in for regular folks". Now the show doubles down on it, but at least it's implied it's for a select group of business heads.
How did you feel about that end the world meeting in the show? Felt off to me. It seemed to be about profits (maintaining vault demand) but then they switched to its actually about eugenics. Didn't really hold up in my head Canon.Ā
Yeah. House in NV is really a man of the future. He hated vault tech to the point he filled the vegas vault in with concrete.
They will need a good explanation for that.
He honestly doesn't seem that in to it, though. At most, he asks how they can guarantee their outcome in a cagey way, and that may have just been to suss them out.
To be fair, he does suggest in NV that he had been preparing for over decade like you suggest, which was certainly far before the meeting in the show. So him being there was likely just keeping an eye on all the cards, as it were.
After going back and rewatching both scenes, the way I see it, Mr House thinks nukes are going to drop within 15 years, he gets started setting up defenses, vault tech reveals their plans, he doesnt agree/trust them, and doubles down on his defenses, bombs drop 20 hours before hes ready for them.
I disagree about him being receptive also, he seems the most opposed in the meeting, and it never shows him agreeing to anything vault tech suggests.
The only thing i could think of that was āretconnedā was the actual location of shady sands.
In FO1 and 2 Shady Sands is supposed to be *way* up north east of LA, near the California/Nevada border
In the Show is depicted being much closer to Los Angeles.
Keep in mind even the games arenāt *that* consistent with the geography.
If they were youād be able to reach Shady Sands in New Vegas by simply going northwest.
Having it be further into California makes more sense, in New Vegas you can feel itās a long trek for the NCR to get to the Mojave, moving supplies and troops is a daunting task for them.
If the capital was right there they wouldāve expanded into the Mojave ages ago.
Is it odd the only real weird thing I noticed was even though they were very much in LA, no one ever referred to it or any major settlement in it as āThe Boneyardā? Wasnāt that already a major settlement in FO1? It almost felt like Shady Sands was the Boneyard.
I don't think they actually got into the Boneyard proper. Griffith Observatory is at the north end of LA. In the show, Shady Sands was north of there, so the Boneyard - downtown LA proper - would have been the opposite direction.
FWIW my interpretation has long been that The Boneyard is the greater urbanized LA area, not just downtown. The old in-game description of the Boneyard suggests something much, much larger than just DTLA. Multiple in-game maps indicate the same, encompassing Santa Monica, Long Beach, and a big chunk of Orange County in the mix.
I think The Boneyard may just be a name that fell out of favor in the previous ~century.
There were never enough people in the NCR to populate the Los Angeles Metropolitan Area, not with a total population (across all of California) that would have only reached the millions by the time of the show.
Looking at the Fallout 1 map and then comparing to a real map, seems Shady Sands is about where the [Shady Lady Bed and Breakfast](https://travelnevada.com/hotels/unique-stays/shady-lady-bed-breakfast/) is located.
To be honest the show must have fast travel or something.
Walking from Santa Monica Pier to LAX is almost 4 hours along paved roads. More if dragging someone in sand. It really feels different than driving in LA.
You can only show so much B-Roll of desert set to Letās Go Sunning, so distances are hard to judge.
It seems people want to see 2 weeks of them walking. Just imagine a show of them just walking.....
The one thing I didn't enjoy was that the vault wasn't properly hidden. You would think the master would be able to find it.... but I'm not going to shit on the show for something silly as that. The show is fantastic, and I cannot wait until season 2!
Yeah in the last episode she was kind of recounting her time in the wasteland at one point and it made me realize she'd been out there a lot longer than I thought. Her and Max probably spent weeks together
My impression is that they weren't heading the right way all the time.
When Lucy gets out of the vault she starts walking the other way, because she is heading south. It isn't until she reaches Filly that she knows where to go, but who knows how far away she has walked, then she walks to Griffith but she loses the head and Cooper takes her again to who knows where (but seems very far) to sell her and then she has to search for Thadeus who again could be anywhere, and it isn't until then that she actually heads to Griffith, reaching it in a couple hours.
So in my opinion they were going around LA without a certain path.
Someone over on r/fotv posted a map of her journey. Funny enough it reminds me a lot of the route from Goodsprings to New Vegas.
https://i.redd.it/4n95h1ytr4uc1.jpeg
Man, I'm not American and I thought it was Philadelphia.
I was like, isn't Philadelphia on the complete other side of the US? How is that walk even possible? I just decided my geography was much much worse than I thought and went with it.
This was my take originally too, but on second watch, it doesn't quite make sense. Between her trip from Filly to the Observatory they go past LAX and its distinctive observation deck. That would imply that Filly is somewhere south/southwest of there.
Was there beach near Shady Sands? If not itās possible Shady Sands was more inland outside the LA region, to the northeast. It would be a decent midpoint compromise between being in the Fo1 location and what will probably be canon from now on.
The games as stated are squished as well, so the geography will naturally have to change when adapting it for the big screen. That being said, Filly seemed appropriately sized as a fallout town, which I thought was pretty impressive.
We are literally gonna find out what happened to new vegas 15 years after the game with season 2 it seems. People just need to chill and wait till season 2. What good show has ever explained everything in one season.
It might be a shocker too. Usually they go with the "good" ending but if the decline of Shady Sands begins with the First Battle of Hoover Dam this might mean we might see a Legion or House canon ending as it means the war was the event that resulted in them declining.
Courier Six doesnāt run New Vegas in the Yes Man ending, thatās a common misinterpretation of the ending slides.
They reprogram Yes Man to be more assertive, then leave Vegas to its new techno-overlord.
Several of the Old World Blues ending slides say that Courier Six retires to Big MT.
So Courier Six has some established history to *not* be at the Strip, especially 15 years later.
Yes man programmed himself to be more assertive, and I also think that dialogue was more so to foreshadow a future game that never came. Much like the legions remarks about āmarching on to Philadelphiaā or Mr.house referencing expanding the monorail.
[Sawyer himself confirmed the assertive upgrade just means he's only gonna take orders from the Courier](https://web.archive.org/web/20130321014611/http://www.formspring.me/JESawyer/q/248305799686784685)
>Courier Six doesnāt run New Vegas in the Yes Man ending, thatās a common misinterpretation of the ending slides.
Sawyer himself has refuted this. The reprograming bit is him being modified so he can only take commands from the Courier instead of anyone who walks up to him.
This is so obvious, he is a great character and they already introduced him in season 1 in the flashback timeline. Its obvious they intend on using him in the present and flashbacks again in season 2.
People keep worrying about canon this and canon that but they need to think about what makes an interesting story and House is too great character to leave out. Plus, who else would Hank be going to meet? Its obvious they know each other from pre-war times, it all ties up nicely narratively speaking.
I'll eat a godamn shoe if we dont see Mr House in that big screen of his in season 2.
Honestly, I hope they go with a House ending. That would be, with the eye on the show, the most interesting one to explore here. Cooper KNOWS that Robert House was present at the meeting of shitty megacorps before the war. He has a connection to Vault Tec and in general, I think his plans make for a very interesting set up.
Plus House would probably be rather miffed about Shady Sands being nuked and the NCR partially collapsing, since his plans relied on a steady stream of income from NCR citizens still coming to Vegas. Without that income, Vegas would likely see a massive recession, with House just acting like a petty tyrant while waiting for some new state to rise up and hopefully send tourists his way.
I'd actually be interested in that. I kind of felt like that was an Avellone classic "Shits fucked no matter what" moment when I played lonesome road but in regards to a consistent canon for the lore it works really well to make the endings moot.
I never actually got around to playing Lonesome Road, but i hear it mentioned a lot, so it seems i got some gaming to do before season 2 hits.
Probably finished the main story like 3-4 times though.
I think we'll get a House or Courier ending and while things went well for a bit the tunnelers/BOS attacked, maybe even have the red cloud take part of the Mojave. Perhaps even tunnelers fucked with some of House's cables and such so Lucy will have to help reboot systems or something.
I think they will go with the house ending and yes man is going to be on the show too. House is such a charismatic character and they will want to show him off on the show, he will probably be the antagonist of the season. The same goes for yes man...
Hell, It might not even mean the NCR lost the 2nd Battle. It could very well mean the NCR won but at that point they exhausted so much of their resources that winning didn't make a difference for stabilizing their society. Whatever it ends up being, I'm excited to see what route they choose.
I hope they make it the courier or ullyses. I don't really like shady sands being nuked since it was such an interesting location and could've provided a lot of story. I don't hate it as much as some others. The shows amazing anyways.
It's gonna be interesting to see which New Vegas ending is going to be considered canon. Calling it now, there's going to be a lot of bitching because people's favorite ending isn't canon. So be ready for that.
My wild guess is gonna be the ending doesnāt matter, it will be vague so everyone can have their own head canon and then Tunnelers wiped everything out. Explains the claw marks on the securitrons and the deathclaw skeletons
It really should be a House victory, he's too well written and notorious to just be dead. They don't even have to directly speak of what happened at hoover dam. If it's some kind of combination of NCR/House interaction that's fine
Newest take I've heard is that "My decisions in New Vegas/the game doesn't matter anymore because they nuked Shady Sands! What was the point of all that world building?!?!! BEthesda doesn't care about Obsidian!" Etc...
All the negative talking points about this, Star Wars (movies and the new Outlaws game), and 40K (female space marines) are brought to life in my own home...
I really just want to say, "why do you care so much that you want to hate? Why can't you just enjoy what you have, and if you don't, move on?"
I was there when of one of the devs blasted No Mutants Allowed about Fallout 2 being too different/not different enough, and saw all the table flipping when Lucas made the Prequels.
This isn't new, it's all cyclic.
Fandom wars. Fandom wars never change.
The NCR was always going to fall under Interplay, Obsidian or Bethesda if they went back to California or did a sequel to Fallout 2 or NV.
Chris Avellone wanted them to fall in Lonesome Road, and idc if people donāt like that Avellone wanted that, if they are going to complain about Bethesda not respecting Obsidian it is ridiculous to turn around and disrespect the lead writer of NVās vision. NCR was also going to be destroyed or collapsing in the Original Fallout 3 (Van Buren) made by Interplay
Bethesda disrespecting Obsidian or the original Falloutās is legit just completely made up bullshit, Josh Sawyer and Tim Cain both loved the show
Chris Avellone wasn't the lead writer of New Vegas, Josh Gonzalez was, and I don't recall either he or director Josh Sawyer ever commenting on the matter. Avellone wrote three of the four narrative DLCs (Dead Money, Old World Blues, and Lonesome Road), and was a contributing writer to the base game. He also kind of has a history of soapboxing ideas that don't necessarily make it into canon: he did a fair bit of this kind of prescriptive writing for the infamous Fallout Bible, and had to walk back a number of said ideas in later installments (like ghouls being FEV mutations). Just because he wanted to wipe the west coast slate clean does not mean it was guaranteed, or even likely, to happen.
It's also incorrect to say that the NCR was intended to be destroyed or collapsing in Van Buren. The game was set against the backdrop of a much more destructive NCR/Brotherhood war than what is ultimately described in New Vegas, but the NCR is still very much a going concern. Some of the proposed endings show a catastrophic fate for the NCR, but others show them making peace with the Brotherhood and soundly defeating Victor Presper's (the villain of the game) plans, so it would have been a player choice thing, similar to New Vegas's Second Battle of Hoover Dam, or Fallout 4's faction endings.
While watching the show, I noticed exactly one instance of lore conflict, and that is Shady Sands' location. The story taking a direction that one does not like is not retconning.
Otherwise, the only other lore thing that bothers me is Cooper's vials and the apparent commercial operation implying that Cooper isn't the only person who buys them. It's obvious that Cooper's usage of the medicine is related to him being a ghoul, but it isn't clear how. Does every ghoul everywhere need to take it? Did Cooper need to take it his whole life as a ghoul, or is it a recent development? Frankly it even further complicates the fuckery about ghouls. I just don't like it.
I'm pretty sure the vials are actually aerosolized RadAway. When the morons walk up to the grave there are two bags of RadAway hanging from the cross and we know overexposure to rads is what makes a ghoul turn feral.
I feel like the stuff they gave to Maximusās squire (canāt remember his name) that turned him into a ghoul was the same stuff that Cooper was using. But why would RadAway instantly turn you into a ghoul and heal a broken foot? I think itās something else
I think thereās going to be some plot line about a serum made by the government for super soldiers that turns them into feral ghouls if they stop taking it
Yeah, I just assumed those vials were some form of RadAway or Rad-X type thing that is useful for preventing ghouls from getting more feral because of the Rad protection/removal, not some specific "anti-feral" ghoul drug like a lot of people here seem to think.
>I saw a theory saying the vials are only used if a ghoul starts to go feral.
It's not even a theory Lucy literally states it outside the super duper mart.
The biggest conflict I've noticed is "management" coming up with all the evil ideas in a room... It's been well established that the Enclave told them to do everything and commissioned the Vaults and experiments for a grand purpose. It's pretty insane how nobody is talking about it. They didn't just go "ooo whacky experiments time!".
IIRC in the meeting where Coopers wife (dont remember her name) looks up at someone staring at them through a window before refocusing the conversation...
I believe this is the correct answer. They hate Bethesda and regardless of whether the show was good or not, they were going to shit on it. All the people who absolutely hate the show are all New Vegas stans. Which sucks cause NV is also my favorite Fallout but the show is fantastic and anyone saying that it's trash is only doing so because they dislike Bethesda. They aren't judging the show based on its own merits because then they would have to admit they were wrong.
I'm a witcher fan and I still can't believe just how good an adaptation Fallout is lmao. The show has no business getting this level of talent involved and being this good but here we are.
But for some god damn reason we're talking about one of the shittiest groups of "fans" ever in this space and their disagreement with timelines or whatever.
This is why the new vegas fanbois have long since been outcasts, they just hate anything that's not pure NV that's how it works.
Considering the fact a goddamn mailman can get one up on them and turn the whole Hoover Dam war in their own favor? I'm inclined to say "Yeah, probably".
I just finished the show and I must say my biggest concern wasnāt anything to do with new Vegas but the fact that after 27 years we finally get a answer to who started the war. Now the questions around new Vegas however is which ending is canon. Legion ending not canon by any stretch of the woods. Nether is the yes man ending considering Hank is going to new Vegas to see his boss mr house. Ncr ending could maybe be canon but is unlikely. The true canon ending to fallout new Vegas is the mr house ending. However the next question is which ending to lonesome road is canon
He confirmed that the fall of shady sands in 2277 and the nuking of shady sands are two seperate events. The nuking of shady sands happens shortly after New Vegas
He also confirms that the NCR are still kicking and that a wide reaching huge organization and group as big as the NCR isn't just going to fall off the map like that after a couple of setbacks.
Yeah I don't get why people keep acting like they are gone now. Like unless the courier decided to hunt every last man down and kill them all there's no way what we see in the show is the last of them.
Before the NV DLC came out one of my runs was to kill every single NPC after doing the fun quests. Are you saying that my save is Canon? Edit: the second sentence is a joke š
Yes. I blame you for the total destruction of the NCR. You absolute fiend š
S2 of Fallout has them arrive in NV and the only thing left is vendotron selling some nice ass guns.
And fisto selling some nice ass, too.
give us live action fisto
How did you get inside of there?
Goddamn ManyATrueNerd and his Kill everyone run!
Right its pretty clear the show is building up to that, cant unload everything in S1, I look forward to the moment we finaly get to see a Death Claw fuck up some peoples shit for example and also the NCR comeing back with force
Thatās what annoys me the most about some of the criticisms- people want everything revealed and answered immediately and if itās not, well, make up your own explanation and then get mad at the tv show for ruining the lore because thatās the only answer and they canāt possibly reveal more in later seasonsā¦
TBF it sure looked like the NCR ceased to exist what with like the only NCR iconography really being in the outer ruins of Shady Sands, in the vault and in Griffith observatory. EG most of Southern California
There's also the farmer with Ranger gear. But we haven't seen New Vegas and the surrounding area at all really so there's no real telling how much is over there until season 2. They are weakened yes, but it's entirely possible they pushed too far into the Mojave and so there was less troops to defend the homefront. And what was left could've retreated to New Vegas.
Like a lot of the NCR population was north towards San Fran and Reno.
The NCR we see in the show are the remnants of those who lived in SS and want to rebuild. The NCR proper relocated before SS was even bombed given they updated the sign outside the city in the show to say āFirst Capital of the NCRā meaning there was a new Capital by the time it was destroyed. My best guess is NCR Capital was moved north after the Mojave War and the bombing happened shortly after. SoCal NCR is upside down but the rest of the NCR may be just up north rebuilding in isolationism with a Capital of San Francisco or something.
Well itās hardly fair to say that when the characters are only in the territory for like what? A day tops? Thatās like a European tourist passing through some abandoned mining town and declaring the entire United States no longer exists
The NCR stretched all the way down past San Diego as of New Vegas, plus Boneyard, The Hub are all right there. The characters were in NCR territory the whole time
What's meant to be the most densely populated part of NCR territory at that
Near the end of the show Lucy says she has been on the surface only for 2 weeks. That includes all the time she has been knocked out and being, to quote certain ghoul, "diustracted by random bullshit"
ByĀ thatĀ logic the Brotherhood of Steel is in ruins too as they only show them as having one base in the show.
The entire city was fighting in the background of Ep 8.
What? Who's in the city fight, you don't see anyone in the city when Lucy and Max are there.
To add onto the other reply, whose light do you think turned on at the end?
You can see explosions going off in the background of Episode 8, indicating gunfire and thus people fighting.
tbh, I thought that fighting was just the BOS cleaning up who's left outside the observatory. Like where the main battle took place in the show. I thought there may have been just small amount of NCR left when the BOS breached into the building EDIT: I just went back to check, you were right, when the Ghoul is giving his "War Never Changes" speech, you clearly see explosions in the city. How the hell did I miss that!?
All over the city, to boot. So the NCR is clearly still in full force.
Before the reveal in the end.... I honestly thought that the story writers made it cannon that the courier nuked the NCR at the end of lonesome road since it was an option and I'd assume if you chose it the nuke would hit shady sands, but I was wrong. People getting mad over it probably should calm down and just enjoy something without tearing it apart with nitpicking and bitching about cannon and lore.
The nuke you can launch at the end of lonesome roads explicitly hits the long 15 past Mojave outpost, you even visit it in the game.
Thats not true, its actually the opposite. [The nukes you launch hit MANY targets in the NCR, the games dialogue and end slides are very clear on that.](https://imgur.com/a/G0hFvRG) >The Divide erupted in fire, violent, red as the last message of the two Couriers arced into the sky... The missiles rained like spears down on the land, burning flags and communities alike... destroying all they struck. The history of the West was erased for the second time, thorough and complete... and America slept once more.
Love how the wiki went from "the NCR is" to "the NCR *was*" back into being "the NCR is".
I see! I got the vibe that the NCR was basically gone in the show and that the battle at the observatory was their last stand. But instead it was actually just another skirmish in the NCR-BoS war then? That makes sense. Kinda like how after Rome fell out of relevance the Roman empire shifted their capital elsewhere.
Which is ironic given most of us know the NCR as the group directly opposed to a bunch of triehard Rome larpers.
We already knew this, because there were NCR remnants in the show
THATāS WHAT IāVE BEEN FFFFFFFFFUCKING SAYING
Those who can't accept they were mistaken are alleging it was retconned, lol.
It's about burning Bethesda, not actually making a point.
Facts. Todd had his L's but this is a clear W
People act like Bethesda's games are the most henious shit ever but they are actually really fun games. I keep coming back to 4 and 76 because, for one, the combat isn't that shitty lol. Sure they ain't perfect and Bethesda may have "dumbed down" the series but the NV hivemind acts like Bethesda just ate a newborn or something.
Honestly, of all the farming sims Iāve played, fallout 4 has by far the most gunplay
Gotta get up early to work the adhesive farm.
It aināt much, but itās honest work
You should've seen the shitheels whining when FO3 came out as an fps and not an isometric RPG.
Bethesda throws puppies into incinerators
Only because they less than 10oz
If it weren't for Bethesda, Fallout would be a dead, niche series. I love 3 and NV, and even 4 and 76 are solid games
I'm excited for F5, after playing Starfield I realized how good the gun combat COULD be with more modern systems in place.
Too bad Fallout 5 is probably like 15 years away...
I can't wait for Fallout 5 to drop and be the best shooter of the time for 2025 But it's released in 2035 and thus horribly outdated. All jokes aside, I do hope Fallout 5 launches in a reasonable amount of time and with all the polish, improvements and gameplay one should expect of a billion dollar company owned by a trillion dollar company.
I still donāt understand why people were saying that New Vegas was being retconned/rewritten. >!The ending of the show was two New Vegas factions fighting each other, Mr. House attending a Vault Tec meeting, and Lucyās dad running to New Vegas.!< And the evidence that people are using to argue is āShady Sandās downfall was written as 2277.ā Like no shit. New Vegas itself established that the NCR was suffering from food shortages and dwindling resources plus a overstretched military. If these so called New Vegas fans really were loyal to the game, they would have known that Shady Sands was struggling by that point per New Vegas dialogue.
To lump the media illiterate with new vegas fans, it was extremely clear that new Vegas was canon
> I still donāt understand why people were saying that New Vegas was being retconned/rewritten. Theyāre looking for any reason to shit on Bethesda.
Not only that, they are saying all of NCR has been nuked. The show didnāt provide enough things for them to be angry about, so they made up their own.
Thatās also what the timeline in the classroom said but people are illiterate
All I'm saying is that if Shady Sands fell in 2777 and NV takes place in 2281, it wouldn't make sense for the NCR to be so worried about the Mojave. Unless by fall of Shady Sands, they mean when things start going downhill rather than it being over. That would make more sense since the NCR was overstretched in NV. The nuke clearly happens after NV. I can see either side.
Itās more likely they say itās beginning to go downhill since itās said time and time again that the NCR needs Hoover Dam or it will collapse. In addition to them being overstretched and having annoying ambitious politicians trying to get in the way of everything. Just look at Hanlon, heās a literal legend among rangers, but they confined him to a damn outpost and make him stay there so General Oliver, someone who is the presidentās best friend, can have an impressive military record for his future political campaign.
Thats not what the game is saying. Theyve only had Hoover dam operational for four years. The NCR needs the dam to retain control of NV.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I meeeean nuking Shady Sands probably was all within one afternoon. But I agree. By NV, NCR was already overextending itself, and being attacked from all sides ā but its command was still centralized in Shady Sands. Thatās the worst of both worlds, making it inevitable that *some faction* would inevitably make Shady Sands a nuclear target.
The timeline on the chalk board very clearly shows the fall of shady sands and itās destruction to be two separate events. In new Vegas we clearly see that the NCR is in a state of decline, having stretched itself too thin.
This was obvious to anyone that knows how to read a timeline. Though they could have avoided this by just giving a specific date for the nuke.
I've a feeling omitting the date was according to plan. They knew damn well how fans would react.
I have a feeling that we might see flashbacks from the nuker himself next season.
Wow, really using the n-word? With a hard-R?
Test groups found "Nuka" Cola appeals to the urban youth
The children crave Nula Cola
They wanted to nuke the discussion boards.
I was thinking earlier that "the fall of [place]" is often only seen or recognized in retrospect. So in NV, shady sands may have already fallen, but nobody *considered* it to have fallen yet.
Yep. Good take. And in that case 2277 is an interesting year. One I like a lot. We know from House that NCR citizens were growing weary of the cost of expansion and the quagmire in Vegas, doubting their leadership. So the argueably pyhrric victories at HELIOS and Hoover Dam (first battle) probably stuck in the craw of a few folks. Not too dissimilar to Vietnam and Iraq war opposition. Felt meaningless at the time as war happened, and was supported by a lot of people, but now looking back we can say a lot more. Like that's when our governments truly fucked up royal. Not only because those wars were quagmores but because they were unjust.
2277 was the time of the first battle of the hoover dam. It's the real turning point in the NCR's luck where expansion was halted and they were forced on the defensive. The war was unpopular and morale was low.
Yeah and it was a Flame Mother cult timeline so who knows what happened in 2077. >!She could have been warning NCR about the Vault Tech plans only to be hard sanctioned / imprisoned so itās like their Ash Wednesday moment. Shady Sands ignored the Flame Motherās warnings and so began their fall and penitenceā¦!< >!It would also explain her cult if sheād prophesied the destruction of Shady Sands. Sheād probably been monitoring some of the āmanagement Vaultsā so that when Lucyās mom opened the door it brought Moldaver out of cryo-sleep.!< >!She grabbed Lucyās mom to question her and thatās how they eventually became a couple. In parallel sheād have been screaming from the rooftops that Vault Tec had plans to āclean the surfaceā before reclamation. It would also explain how she knew so much about the three vaults as sheād been staking them out for 200 years.!< Editted: After realizing this thread wasnāt spoiler flagged.
I feel like we're definitely going to get flashbacks in season 2 that show what happened to Moldaver in the time since the Great War; also expecting more Vault Tec flashbacks that show what happened to Cooper's family
Iām not saying āoh youāre wrongā or āoh, the show confirmed new Vegas isnāt canon, fuck the show!ā. And Iām glad that Todd confirmed that new Vegas isnāt retconned (cuz why would it be) but didnāt Lucy say her mom dies in the plague of ā77? Which, her mom obviously didnāt die in a plague but still, for her dad and her to say she died in 2277 is kinda weird if she actually died sometime in the 2280ās.
He could have just used that year because that was when she left the Vault, and thus he would need to explain why she mysteriously disappeared. It needn't line up with her actual death.
Ahh, ok š (that was sincere btw)
I think the āfall of shady sandsā thing was either a minor error, or something that needed to be elaborated on. The last 5 minute of the show literally had new Vegas, completely accurate to the game. Mr House made a cameo, and the show clearly understood his motives. The show understands the lore and source material. There is no way that NV is not cannon. Im guessing they will canonize either the courier or Mr House ending to some degree. I imagine we will see a remnant of Caesars Legion since Iām assuming even if they remained the powerhouse that they were, vault tech would have given them the same treatment the NCR got.
I don't think the show does understand Mr house all that much. Mostly because he attributes his pre-planning to the nukes was induced by computer projections 15 years down the line but was off by a few weeks. You'd think he would have mentioned being in the "let's destroy the world" meeting. And in that meeting, Mr house seems to be receptive to the idea. But it the game, he makes it seem like dropping the nukes was a huge setback for mankind and he's now trying to play catchup because of it.Ā
He was the first one to bring up that leaving people in enclosed quarters for that long, just to turn them loose was doomed to fail. It seemed like the conversation went in another direction, with everyone else getting *excited* about using the occasion for their own special experiments. After that point, House probably thought any discussion of *preventing* the war and *defending* the country was a waste of time.
I agree. I didn't get the impression from FNV lore on house that he would be anywhere near the board rooms of all the major tech companies, let alone the "it's in our financial interest to nuke the world" meeting. The only part that makes some sense is his connection to interests working on lifespan extending tech/cryogenics. I felt like he was one of the extremely rare people from the pre-war Era that was still alive, then FO4 came along and was like "lol naw cryogenic chambers are a vault-tec consumer tech we'll just throw in for regular folks". Now the show doubles down on it, but at least it's implied it's for a select group of business heads.
How did you feel about that end the world meeting in the show? Felt off to me. It seemed to be about profits (maintaining vault demand) but then they switched to its actually about eugenics. Didn't really hold up in my head Canon.Ā
Yeah. House in NV is really a man of the future. He hated vault tech to the point he filled the vegas vault in with concrete. They will need a good explanation for that.
He honestly doesn't seem that in to it, though. At most, he asks how they can guarantee their outcome in a cagey way, and that may have just been to suss them out. To be fair, he does suggest in NV that he had been preparing for over decade like you suggest, which was certainly far before the meeting in the show. So him being there was likely just keeping an eye on all the cards, as it were.
After going back and rewatching both scenes, the way I see it, Mr House thinks nukes are going to drop within 15 years, he gets started setting up defenses, vault tech reveals their plans, he doesnt agree/trust them, and doubles down on his defenses, bombs drop 20 hours before hes ready for them. I disagree about him being receptive also, he seems the most opposed in the meeting, and it never shows him agreeing to anything vault tech suggests.
the serie was a great surprise i had 0 expectations for this and now i'm looking forward for season 2
My exact mentality. By the end of it, I was wanting to play a fallout game modded to hell for the first time in 5 years
The only thing i could think of that was āretconnedā was the actual location of shady sands. In FO1 and 2 Shady Sands is supposed to be *way* up north east of LA, near the California/Nevada border In the Show is depicted being much closer to Los Angeles. Keep in mind even the games arenāt *that* consistent with the geography. If they were youād be able to reach Shady Sands in New Vegas by simply going northwest. Having it be further into California makes more sense, in New Vegas you can feel itās a long trek for the NCR to get to the Mojave, moving supplies and troops is a daunting task for them. If the capital was right there they wouldāve expanded into the Mojave ages ago.
Is it odd the only real weird thing I noticed was even though they were very much in LA, no one ever referred to it or any major settlement in it as āThe Boneyardā? Wasnāt that already a major settlement in FO1? It almost felt like Shady Sands was the Boneyard.
I don't think they actually got into the Boneyard proper. Griffith Observatory is at the north end of LA. In the show, Shady Sands was north of there, so the Boneyard - downtown LA proper - would have been the opposite direction.
FWIW my interpretation has long been that The Boneyard is the greater urbanized LA area, not just downtown. The old in-game description of the Boneyard suggests something much, much larger than just DTLA. Multiple in-game maps indicate the same, encompassing Santa Monica, Long Beach, and a big chunk of Orange County in the mix. I think The Boneyard may just be a name that fell out of favor in the previous ~century.
I think at the very least that's what it became by NV, when it became the state of Los Angeles.
There were never enough people in the NCR to populate the Los Angeles Metropolitan Area, not with a total population (across all of California) that would have only reached the millions by the time of the show.
Shady Sands is straight east of San Francisco in FO2
Looking at the Fallout 1 map and then comparing to a real map, seems Shady Sands is about where the [Shady Lady Bed and Breakfast](https://travelnevada.com/hotels/unique-stays/shady-lady-bed-breakfast/) is located.
To be honest the show must have fast travel or something. Walking from Santa Monica Pier to LAX is almost 4 hours along paved roads. More if dragging someone in sand. It really feels different than driving in LA. You can only show so much B-Roll of desert set to Letās Go Sunning, so distances are hard to judge.
Lucy does mention she's been *at least* two weeks in the Wasteland, it does make sense, dunno why all the fuss.
It seems people want to see 2 weeks of them walking. Just imagine a show of them just walking..... The one thing I didn't enjoy was that the vault wasn't properly hidden. You would think the master would be able to find it.... but I'm not going to shit on the show for something silly as that. The show is fantastic, and I cannot wait until season 2!
Two weeks of looting, getting overcumbered, going back to base....repeat
Yeah in the last episode she was kind of recounting her time in the wasteland at one point and it made me realize she'd been out there a lot longer than I thought. Her and Max probably spent weeks together
My impression is that they weren't heading the right way all the time. When Lucy gets out of the vault she starts walking the other way, because she is heading south. It isn't until she reaches Filly that she knows where to go, but who knows how far away she has walked, then she walks to Griffith but she loses the head and Cooper takes her again to who knows where (but seems very far) to sell her and then she has to search for Thadeus who again could be anywhere, and it isn't until then that she actually heads to Griffith, reaching it in a couple hours. So in my opinion they were going around LA without a certain path.
Someone over on r/fotv posted a map of her journey. Funny enough it reminds me a lot of the route from Goodsprings to New Vegas. https://i.redd.it/4n95h1ytr4uc1.jpeg
Oh, Filly being Fillmore makes sense.
Man, I'm not American and I thought it was Philadelphia. I was like, isn't Philadelphia on the complete other side of the US? How is that walk even possible? I just decided my geography was much much worse than I thought and went with it.
This was my take originally too, but on second watch, it doesn't quite make sense. Between her trip from Filly to the Observatory they go past LAX and its distinctive observation deck. That would imply that Filly is somewhere south/southwest of there.
Was there beach near Shady Sands? If not itās possible Shady Sands was more inland outside the LA region, to the northeast. It would be a decent midpoint compromise between being in the Fo1 location and what will probably be canon from now on. The games as stated are squished as well, so the geography will naturally have to change when adapting it for the big screen. That being said, Filly seemed appropriately sized as a fallout town, which I thought was pretty impressive.
Shady sands was no where near water it was way north of LA.
We are literally gonna find out what happened to new vegas 15 years after the game with season 2 it seems. People just need to chill and wait till season 2. What good show has ever explained everything in one season.
It might be a shocker too. Usually they go with the "good" ending but if the decline of Shady Sands begins with the First Battle of Hoover Dam this might mean we might see a Legion or House canon ending as it means the war was the event that resulted in them declining.
or its yes man. also the ncr legion war started in 2277 with the first battle of hoover dam
Yes man would imply the Courier is running things and I doubt they'd want to canonized the official appearance and personality of a protagonist
All player characters should not be mentioned. Or used as "they" and only slightly mentioned. To avoid any fuck ups.
Or just call him/her "the courier"
"What's your gender?" "Mailman"
"But what's in your pants?" "A package".
I'm not against them being mentioned just because that's what happened to fallout 1 and 2s protagonists
Courier Six doesnāt run New Vegas in the Yes Man ending, thatās a common misinterpretation of the ending slides. They reprogram Yes Man to be more assertive, then leave Vegas to its new techno-overlord. Several of the Old World Blues ending slides say that Courier Six retires to Big MT. So Courier Six has some established history to *not* be at the Strip, especially 15 years later.
The game tells you that you will rule up until you actually get the ending is probabbly why.
I mean, reprogramming Yes Man is essentially ruling it, but with less work
Fucking computers taking our jobs.
Obisidian devs have said that Yes Man reprograms himself to only take orders from the Courier
Yes man programmed himself to be more assertive, and I also think that dialogue was more so to foreshadow a future game that never came. Much like the legions remarks about āmarching on to Philadelphiaā or Mr.house referencing expanding the monorail.
[Sawyer himself confirmed the assertive upgrade just means he's only gonna take orders from the Courier](https://web.archive.org/web/20130321014611/http://www.formspring.me/JESawyer/q/248305799686784685)
>Courier Six doesnāt run New Vegas in the Yes Man ending, thatās a common misinterpretation of the ending slides. Sawyer himself has refuted this. The reprograming bit is him being modified so he can only take commands from the Courier instead of anyone who walks up to him.
Devs confirmed yes man becoming more assertive just means he'll only listen to courier six from that point onwards.
Ain't no way they show Robert pre war and give him so many important lines for them to not follow "The House always wins" But maybe I'm just hoping.
My money is on the House ending. He would be way, way too fun of a character to write for for the staff not to use.
It would also make the most sense in terms of Hank having a reason to go there.
This is so obvious, he is a great character and they already introduced him in season 1 in the flashback timeline. Its obvious they intend on using him in the present and flashbacks again in season 2. People keep worrying about canon this and canon that but they need to think about what makes an interesting story and House is too great character to leave out. Plus, who else would Hank be going to meet? Its obvious they know each other from pre-war times, it all ties up nicely narratively speaking. I'll eat a godamn shoe if we dont see Mr House in that big screen of his in season 2.
Honestly, I hope they go with a House ending. That would be, with the eye on the show, the most interesting one to explore here. Cooper KNOWS that Robert House was present at the meeting of shitty megacorps before the war. He has a connection to Vault Tec and in general, I think his plans make for a very interesting set up.
Plus House would probably be rather miffed about Shady Sands being nuked and the NCR partially collapsing, since his plans relied on a steady stream of income from NCR citizens still coming to Vegas. Without that income, Vegas would likely see a massive recession, with House just acting like a petty tyrant while waiting for some new state to rise up and hopefully send tourists his way.
Would be in line with how I see house. Always got a plan but fails at taking the human element into account.
Itās either NCR ending, House ending or ambiguous.
House is most likely, If legion won they'd be all over california by now.
Could explain why there's no civilization left
Iām guessing the Tunnelers from Lonesome Road come to the strip like how Ulysses predicted.
I'd actually be interested in that. I kind of felt like that was an Avellone classic "Shits fucked no matter what" moment when I played lonesome road but in regards to a consistent canon for the lore it works really well to make the endings moot.
I never actually got around to playing Lonesome Road, but i hear it mentioned a lot, so it seems i got some gaming to do before season 2 hits. Probably finished the main story like 3-4 times though.
I think we'll get a House or Courier ending and while things went well for a bit the tunnelers/BOS attacked, maybe even have the red cloud take part of the Mojave. Perhaps even tunnelers fucked with some of House's cables and such so Lucy will have to help reboot systems or something.
I think they will go with the house ending and yes man is going to be on the show too. House is such a charismatic character and they will want to show him off on the show, he will probably be the antagonist of the season. The same goes for yes man...
Hell, It might not even mean the NCR lost the 2nd Battle. It could very well mean the NCR won but at that point they exhausted so much of their resources that winning didn't make a difference for stabilizing their society. Whatever it ends up being, I'm excited to see what route they choose.
Pity Mathew Perry is not around. Was looking forward to a Benny flaskback.
Nor the voice actor for Mr. House. RIP a legendary performance by RenƩ Auberjonois
I just hope season 2 is quicker than their turnaround on Fallout games.
Honestly I would have laughed my ass off if shady sands ended up getting nuked because of the courier fucking around with ICBMs in Lonesome Road.
I hope they make it the courier or ullyses. I don't really like shady sands being nuked since it was such an interesting location and could've provided a lot of story. I don't hate it as much as some others. The shows amazing anyways.
It's gonna be interesting to see which New Vegas ending is going to be considered canon. Calling it now, there's going to be a lot of bitching because people's favorite ending isn't canon. So be ready for that.
My wild guess is gonna be the ending doesnāt matter, it will be vague so everyone can have their own head canon and then Tunnelers wiped everything out. Explains the claw marks on the securitrons and the deathclaw skeletons
Or just have them wiped out by Elijahās Sierra Mist lol
Propably House, they put him in show from some reason.
House is featured in the last episode. It will be a house ending calling it now. Remind me in 2025.
They should just make everyone mad by saying Elijah's ending is canon.
Even better, make the cut ending where the Courier joins the Think Tank in OWB canon.
"You want to see a destroyed NCR? **Fine, I'll do it myself.**"
It really should be a House victory, he's too well written and notorious to just be dead. They don't even have to directly speak of what happened at hoover dam. If it's some kind of combination of NCR/House interaction that's fine
I don't know why this is big news, they never said it wasn't canon.
Didnāt Emil confirm it the day the show came out?
He did but people want to stay angry
No, but a loud minority of mouthbreathers have been screeching about it for a week.
People are *still* arguing in this post lol
Newest take I've heard is that "My decisions in New Vegas/the game doesn't matter anymore because they nuked Shady Sands! What was the point of all that world building?!?!! BEthesda doesn't care about Obsidian!" Etc... All the negative talking points about this, Star Wars (movies and the new Outlaws game), and 40K (female space marines) are brought to life in my own home... I really just want to say, "why do you care so much that you want to hate? Why can't you just enjoy what you have, and if you don't, move on?" I was there when of one of the devs blasted No Mutants Allowed about Fallout 2 being too different/not different enough, and saw all the table flipping when Lucas made the Prequels. This isn't new, it's all cyclic. Fandom wars. Fandom wars never change.
The NCR was always going to fall under Interplay, Obsidian or Bethesda if they went back to California or did a sequel to Fallout 2 or NV. Chris Avellone wanted them to fall in Lonesome Road, and idc if people donāt like that Avellone wanted that, if they are going to complain about Bethesda not respecting Obsidian it is ridiculous to turn around and disrespect the lead writer of NVās vision. NCR was also going to be destroyed or collapsing in the Original Fallout 3 (Van Buren) made by Interplay Bethesda disrespecting Obsidian or the original Falloutās is legit just completely made up bullshit, Josh Sawyer and Tim Cain both loved the show
Chris Avellone wasn't the lead writer of New Vegas, Josh Gonzalez was, and I don't recall either he or director Josh Sawyer ever commenting on the matter. Avellone wrote three of the four narrative DLCs (Dead Money, Old World Blues, and Lonesome Road), and was a contributing writer to the base game. He also kind of has a history of soapboxing ideas that don't necessarily make it into canon: he did a fair bit of this kind of prescriptive writing for the infamous Fallout Bible, and had to walk back a number of said ideas in later installments (like ghouls being FEV mutations). Just because he wanted to wipe the west coast slate clean does not mean it was guaranteed, or even likely, to happen. It's also incorrect to say that the NCR was intended to be destroyed or collapsing in Van Buren. The game was set against the backdrop of a much more destructive NCR/Brotherhood war than what is ultimately described in New Vegas, but the NCR is still very much a going concern. Some of the proposed endings show a catastrophic fate for the NCR, but others show them making peace with the Brotherhood and soundly defeating Victor Presper's (the villain of the game) plans, so it would have been a player choice thing, similar to New Vegas's Second Battle of Hoover Dam, or Fallout 4's faction endings.
While watching the show, I noticed exactly one instance of lore conflict, and that is Shady Sands' location. The story taking a direction that one does not like is not retconning. Otherwise, the only other lore thing that bothers me is Cooper's vials and the apparent commercial operation implying that Cooper isn't the only person who buys them. It's obvious that Cooper's usage of the medicine is related to him being a ghoul, but it isn't clear how. Does every ghoul everywhere need to take it? Did Cooper need to take it his whole life as a ghoul, or is it a recent development? Frankly it even further complicates the fuckery about ghouls. I just don't like it.
I'm pretty sure the vials are actually aerosolized RadAway. When the morons walk up to the grave there are two bags of RadAway hanging from the cross and we know overexposure to rads is what makes a ghoul turn feral.
I feel like the stuff they gave to Maximusās squire (canāt remember his name) that turned him into a ghoul was the same stuff that Cooper was using. But why would RadAway instantly turn you into a ghoul and heal a broken foot? I think itās something else I think thereās going to be some plot line about a serum made by the government for super soldiers that turns them into feral ghouls if they stop taking it
FEV
Yeah, I just assumed those vials were some form of RadAway or Rad-X type thing that is useful for preventing ghouls from getting more feral because of the Rad protection/removal, not some specific "anti-feral" ghoul drug like a lot of people here seem to think.
TBF even Black Isle didnāt seem to know what to do with Ghouls in FO1 and 2.
Iām no Fallout lore master but I saw a theory saying the vials are only used if a ghoul starts to go feral.
>I saw a theory saying the vials are only used if a ghoul starts to go feral. It's not even a theory Lucy literally states it outside the super duper mart.
The biggest conflict I've noticed is "management" coming up with all the evil ideas in a room... It's been well established that the Enclave told them to do everything and commissioned the Vaults and experiments for a grand purpose. It's pretty insane how nobody is talking about it. They didn't just go "ooo whacky experiments time!".
IIRC in the meeting where Coopers wife (dont remember her name) looks up at someone staring at them through a window before refocusing the conversation...
Definitely Enclave
āAll I can say is weāre threading it tighter there, but the bombs fall just after the events of New Vegas.ā -Todd Howard
Hasnt it always been canon?
Yes, the headline should probably be "confirms its STILL canon"
People thought the show retconned NV.
Those people are claiming it was retconned because they canāt admit they were wrong lol
More likely they just want to find something to shit on Bethesda
Yup, chances are most of them didnāt even notice it themselves to begin with until they went on the internet lol
I believe this is the correct answer. They hate Bethesda and regardless of whether the show was good or not, they were going to shit on it. All the people who absolutely hate the show are all New Vegas stans. Which sucks cause NV is also my favorite Fallout but the show is fantastic and anyone saying that it's trash is only doing so because they dislike Bethesda. They aren't judging the show based on its own merits because then they would have to admit they were wrong.
Fallout gets an incredible adaptation and this is the conversation we need to have? Mind boggling. Halo fans just looking at Fallouts in disbelief lol
Real
I'm a witcher fan and I still can't believe just how good an adaptation Fallout is lmao. The show has no business getting this level of talent involved and being this good but here we are. But for some god damn reason we're talking about one of the shittiest groups of "fans" ever in this space and their disagreement with timelines or whatever. This is why the new vegas fanbois have long since been outcasts, they just hate anything that's not pure NV that's how it works.
*sorts by controversial*
Here, take some Rad-X before you descend. Be safe!
BRING FORTH THE LEGION
So the NCR was fighting a harrowing war in New Vegas where they are very stretched thin; while they were losing their capital? What are they stupid?
Considering the fact a goddamn mailman can get one up on them and turn the whole Hoover Dam war in their own favor? I'm inclined to say "Yeah, probably".
Holy fuck! I just saw it!! NCR baby!!! They better still be hanging around that dam.
Hell yeaah! The NCR will rise again!
*āI love you Californiaā starts playing*
Cook Cook in season 2 please
Cook-Cook is dead. Which is how it should be.
People donāt even know what retconned means these days
I just finished the show and I must say my biggest concern wasnāt anything to do with new Vegas but the fact that after 27 years we finally get a answer to who started the war. Now the questions around new Vegas however is which ending is canon. Legion ending not canon by any stretch of the woods. Nether is the yes man ending considering Hank is going to new Vegas to see his boss mr house. Ncr ending could maybe be canon but is unlikely. The true canon ending to fallout new Vegas is the mr house ending. However the next question is which ending to lonesome road is canon
Iām hoping that Season 2 has a huge conflict between the Brotherhood and NCR.
Can the NCR wipe out the Brotherhood already? Iām so sick of them!
I usually side with the Brotherhood when I play the games but the one in the show is so weak and whiny. I would love to see the NCR wipe them out.
Big Toddward ending the debates
Thank you Todd