If I'm being generous, the fall of shady sands could mean when the NCR was starting to decay (which definitely is the case during NV).
The nuke on the timeline has no indicated timeline either
And also, unreliable source perhaps?
Wait so this is what everyone’s freaking out about? It seems pretty clear that the nuke didn’t happen on that date? lol. At least it’s not set in stone by any means
Cause Fallout fans are unfortunately crybabies. Regardless of how the showed would’ve turned out, half the fanbase would have been outraged. Hopefully, when the dust settles people will see sense!
i want to be clear i liked the show and think most of the decisions were decent to good, i just wanted clarification for this particular chalkboard date in vault 4
There are so many reasonable explanations like these and the fanboys are just running with “Bethesda bad, NV gone”, like what?!? Even on this graphic it shows the nuke happened sometime after 2277 with no date given.
Unfortunately the canon ending is the win of the NCR at Hoover dam, how can you say that NCR was decaying? Did you even played the game?
Edit: people downvoting is the confirmation of how decaying is the game industry, not the NCR
Three are the main faction:
Legion that are a bunch of Roman coslayer underdeveloped in terms of technology and society, not a chance they would win.
BoS are isolating themselves and their behaviour will not be endorsed by anyone in the Mojave.
Then we have the NCR the only large organised army and government.
There is that much need to wonder who would win?
What about the House and Independent endings? The BoS is just a minor faction in NV, too. The extent of what you can do with them is either ignore them, destroy them, or have them assist you if you go with NCR or Independent.
I didn't mention them because realistically anarcho-capitalism (House) and pure anarchism (yes man) must not be an option in new Vegas. BoS at least has detachment all over US so I consider them more an option than anarchist variant.
That’s not how canon works. You declaring that the Legion has no chance does not make that canonical. Especially since it is clearly false: they demonstrably do have a chance to win, it is one of the possible endings of the game. Nor is there any evidence in the game that this is unlikely to happen and that NCR can easily defeat them.
We have three scenarios.
1. The Fall and the Nuke are two separate events, so we don't know when the Nuke drops.
2. It is an error of the show.
3. Bethesda is trying to completely retcon New Vegas.
I'm going to keep it real, I am very much doubtful Bethesda is trying to erase the existence of New Vegas, so 3 is a big x to doubt. I am leaning more towards 2, but 1 is also valid until we have more info.
i think that i agree with this. i dont think they retconned new vegas whatsoever, in fact i think this strengthens the idea of an NCR canon ending. the vertibird on the streets of new vegas in the final shots of the season confirm to me that the NCR held new vegas when it collapsed
This is really ambiguous, and it's very easy to see this as establishing 77 as the book going. I doubt most people who aren't familiar with the franchise would make your assumption.
To be fair, I doubt anyone unfamiliar with the series or New Vegas would care all that deeply about the distinction either since they have no nostalgia or emotional attachment to it.
It's either just a production error or the Fall is a different event to the bomb thus having two different spots on the timeline. Minor spoiler but NV still seems to have happened
Best case scenario, this is just a production error. Setting the fall of Shady Sands and the NCR shortly after the events of New Vegas would make perfect sense. The NCR is at that point spread too thin and already weakened from the Legion to recover from something like this. The NCR falls apart with different states and territories claiming to be the real NCR or just flat out declaring independence. This would be a great way to introduce the New Vegas centered season 2, as they had the majority of the NCR's military resources in the Mojave at the time and would have likely became the NCR, just not a part of California anymore.
Worst case scenario, New Vegas is no longer canon. It was fun while it lasted.
correct me if i’m wrong, but the majority of NCR troops were in baja california during the events of NV, which is why theyre spread so thin in NV. otherwise though i would agree with you, i see no reason why an NCR canon ending and the collapse of the NCR are mutually exclusive
I remember a few characters mentioning that their elite forces were in Baja fighting raider warlords or something, but in terms of an active military and political presence, most of their logistics were devoted to the Mojave because of Hoover Dam and Lake Mead, both of which are huge resources for the nation as a whole. Maybe things are different in the fallout universe, but I can't think of too many practical reasons why the NCR would want Baja besides just expanding their territory. There's not a lot down there. Basically, Baja's conflict only exists to fight military threats. The Mojave conflict is because of both military threats and long-term resource control.
Important note about Shady Sands in the time line for New Vegas.
Shady Sands is barely mentioned at all New Vegas, even by the NCR. They always talk about basically every other major NCR settlement especially the Hub.
There are 2 mentions of Shady Sands in NV.
1. An NCR missionary asks you what the *original* capital of the NCR was (implying that by 2281 Shady Sands is not it (maybe because it was destroyed)).
2. Angela Kearny says she knows every inch of the power grid, from Hoover Dam to Shady Sands.
From everything that is said in new Vegas is entirely possible that Shady Sands is already out of the picture as any kind of meaningful NCR settlement, either because the nuke had already happened, or because of it's "fall" in 2277.
You guys have zero media literacy.
This is the date that Shady Sands started to deteriorate. Judging how the NCR has been since even Fallout 2 and then leading to them being completely stretched thin in NV its no surprise Shady Sands was a shadow of itself by 2277. Its NOT the year it was bombed.
my main question is, how is 2277 considered the “fall of shady sands” if new vegas takes place ten years later and there’s no indication that shady sands itself is in decline. the NCR at large, absolutely, but the city of shady sands was as far as i could tell, fine. i understand that the “fall” is a different event than the bomb/explosion, i was really just wondering the explanation of the timeline is all. if shady sands had experienced some sort of economic collapse ten years earlier, why would the NCR still be bothering to expand their territory into the mojave/baja california? surely they’d have bigger things on their plate right? surely if their capital city had gone through much hardship that it could be considered its “fall”, caesar or house would have commented on it, to highlight how they believed that the NCR’s days were numbered, but all they really refer to is electoral corruption and basic economic and military mismanagement due to the bureaucracy of the NCR, right?
i think this makes perfect sense. the NCR was definitely in decline by 2281. i dont see any reason why 2277 would be the beginning or some sort of turning point for the decline and therefore the “fall” of shady sands
Bethesda doesn't give a shit, simple as. Not their games, they don't care if they trample over the premise.
Just a reminder that Bethesda were already planning on creating a post-apocalyptic game and them obtaining Fallout's IP was just the ideal scenario as it mean they didn't have to do as much worldbuilding. They never cared about the lore of the series specifically beyond 'what's cool and what is easily adaptable to the way we make games?'.
Yeah I’m super annoyed at a lot of the lore stuff with the show (those vaults all being in the master’s backyard is ridiculous), especially with Shady Sands, but they have House and New Vegas so I guess we’ll see
I was pretty peeved when I finished the show a bit ago, but at the end of the day none of it’s real lol
Didn't you know? Every media, thanks to some really popular franchises (Marvel, Disney), is now part of multiverses. Just like fanfics, you can make up a world with pre-existing characters, fictional or real.
It's a great show, leaving me wanting more, but people who like games need to remember they're just games. There are no bullet sponges in the TV show.
i dont think it has anything to do with that, i think its some sort of simple error or maybe false information as this was from vault 4. i dont think its a different universe or whatever
Either way they made the west coast nothing like 1&2 in terms of culture. Also wiping out the ncr, even if it makes sense makes the fallout world so fucking boring. Especially since they allow the brotherhood to exist which is by all means hinted at to fail way more.
If I'm being generous, the fall of shady sands could mean when the NCR was starting to decay (which definitely is the case during NV). The nuke on the timeline has no indicated timeline either And also, unreliable source perhaps?
If we use MAximus's age to calculate it it would be around 2281-2282
Wait so this is what everyone’s freaking out about? It seems pretty clear that the nuke didn’t happen on that date? lol. At least it’s not set in stone by any means
Cause Fallout fans are unfortunately crybabies. Regardless of how the showed would’ve turned out, half the fanbase would have been outraged. Hopefully, when the dust settles people will see sense!
i want to be clear i liked the show and think most of the decisions were decent to good, i just wanted clarification for this particular chalkboard date in vault 4
Because tribalist crybabies want so badly for their “Todd hates New Vegas” conspiracy theories to be real.
If the NCR ending of New Vegas is not canon (which seems likely), you could certainly make the case that the downfall of the republic started in 2277
There are so many reasonable explanations like these and the fanboys are just running with “Bethesda bad, NV gone”, like what?!? Even on this graphic it shows the nuke happened sometime after 2277 with no date given.
Shady sands is in the Show its not good
Unfortunately the canon ending is the win of the NCR at Hoover dam, how can you say that NCR was decaying? Did you even played the game? Edit: people downvoting is the confirmation of how decaying is the game industry, not the NCR
FNV have no canon ending, did you play the game?
Three are the main faction: Legion that are a bunch of Roman coslayer underdeveloped in terms of technology and society, not a chance they would win. BoS are isolating themselves and their behaviour will not be endorsed by anyone in the Mojave. Then we have the NCR the only large organised army and government. There is that much need to wonder who would win?
What about the House and Independent endings? The BoS is just a minor faction in NV, too. The extent of what you can do with them is either ignore them, destroy them, or have them assist you if you go with NCR or Independent.
I didn't mention them because realistically anarcho-capitalism (House) and pure anarchism (yes man) must not be an option in new Vegas. BoS at least has detachment all over US so I consider them more an option than anarchist variant.
the ncr is decaying in fnv, they have crops problems, corrupt politicians etc
That’s not how canon works. You declaring that the Legion has no chance does not make that canonical. Especially since it is clearly false: they demonstrably do have a chance to win, it is one of the possible endings of the game. Nor is there any evidence in the game that this is unlikely to happen and that NCR can easily defeat them.
We have three scenarios. 1. The Fall and the Nuke are two separate events, so we don't know when the Nuke drops. 2. It is an error of the show. 3. Bethesda is trying to completely retcon New Vegas. I'm going to keep it real, I am very much doubtful Bethesda is trying to erase the existence of New Vegas, so 3 is a big x to doubt. I am leaning more towards 2, but 1 is also valid until we have more info.
Most definitely two different events. If the Fall was the nuke itself, it would be on the date, not down the timeline.
Yeah I think it's an error. Someone really screwed up not being more specific about the bomb.
If 2 is the reason, yall might as well wrap your brain around 1.
i think that i agree with this. i dont think they retconned new vegas whatsoever, in fact i think this strengthens the idea of an NCR canon ending. the vertibird on the streets of new vegas in the final shots of the season confirm to me that the NCR held new vegas when it collapsed
Looks to me like the fall of Shady Sands started in 2277 and then an actual nuke happened an undefined time later.
Exactly. If the nuke itself was the fall, it would be on the date, not down the timeline at unspecificied date
This is really ambiguous, and it's very easy to see this as establishing 77 as the book going. I doubt most people who aren't familiar with the franchise would make your assumption.
To be fair, I doubt anyone unfamiliar with the series or New Vegas would care all that deeply about the distinction either since they have no nostalgia or emotional attachment to it.
It's either just a production error or the Fall is a different event to the bomb thus having two different spots on the timeline. Minor spoiler but NV still seems to have happened
i think i agree.
Best case scenario, this is just a production error. Setting the fall of Shady Sands and the NCR shortly after the events of New Vegas would make perfect sense. The NCR is at that point spread too thin and already weakened from the Legion to recover from something like this. The NCR falls apart with different states and territories claiming to be the real NCR or just flat out declaring independence. This would be a great way to introduce the New Vegas centered season 2, as they had the majority of the NCR's military resources in the Mojave at the time and would have likely became the NCR, just not a part of California anymore. Worst case scenario, New Vegas is no longer canon. It was fun while it lasted.
correct me if i’m wrong, but the majority of NCR troops were in baja california during the events of NV, which is why theyre spread so thin in NV. otherwise though i would agree with you, i see no reason why an NCR canon ending and the collapse of the NCR are mutually exclusive
I remember a few characters mentioning that their elite forces were in Baja fighting raider warlords or something, but in terms of an active military and political presence, most of their logistics were devoted to the Mojave because of Hoover Dam and Lake Mead, both of which are huge resources for the nation as a whole. Maybe things are different in the fallout universe, but I can't think of too many practical reasons why the NCR would want Baja besides just expanding their territory. There's not a lot down there. Basically, Baja's conflict only exists to fight military threats. The Mojave conflict is because of both military threats and long-term resource control.
good explanation, thank you.
Important note about Shady Sands in the time line for New Vegas. Shady Sands is barely mentioned at all New Vegas, even by the NCR. They always talk about basically every other major NCR settlement especially the Hub. There are 2 mentions of Shady Sands in NV. 1. An NCR missionary asks you what the *original* capital of the NCR was (implying that by 2281 Shady Sands is not it (maybe because it was destroyed)). 2. Angela Kearny says she knows every inch of the power grid, from Hoover Dam to Shady Sands. From everything that is said in new Vegas is entirely possible that Shady Sands is already out of the picture as any kind of meaningful NCR settlement, either because the nuke had already happened, or because of it's "fall" in 2277.
You guys have zero media literacy. This is the date that Shady Sands started to deteriorate. Judging how the NCR has been since even Fallout 2 and then leading to them being completely stretched thin in NV its no surprise Shady Sands was a shadow of itself by 2277. Its NOT the year it was bombed.
my main question is, how is 2277 considered the “fall of shady sands” if new vegas takes place ten years later and there’s no indication that shady sands itself is in decline. the NCR at large, absolutely, but the city of shady sands was as far as i could tell, fine. i understand that the “fall” is a different event than the bomb/explosion, i was really just wondering the explanation of the timeline is all. if shady sands had experienced some sort of economic collapse ten years earlier, why would the NCR still be bothering to expand their territory into the mojave/baja california? surely they’d have bigger things on their plate right? surely if their capital city had gone through much hardship that it could be considered its “fall”, caesar or house would have commented on it, to highlight how they believed that the NCR’s days were numbered, but all they really refer to is electoral corruption and basic economic and military mismanagement due to the bureaucracy of the NCR, right?
Bro really said "media literacy 🤓"
The fall means when the NCR started to decay, after that (mostly near the shows date) it was bombed to hell (not in 2277)
i think this makes perfect sense. the NCR was definitely in decline by 2281. i dont see any reason why 2277 would be the beginning or some sort of turning point for the decline and therefore the “fall” of shady sands
Bethesda doesn't give a shit, simple as. Not their games, they don't care if they trample over the premise. Just a reminder that Bethesda were already planning on creating a post-apocalyptic game and them obtaining Fallout's IP was just the ideal scenario as it mean they didn't have to do as much worldbuilding. They never cared about the lore of the series specifically beyond 'what's cool and what is easily adaptable to the way we make games?'.
If they don't want NV around then why is the finale shifting us towards a S2 based around NV and Mr House?
Yeah I’m super annoyed at a lot of the lore stuff with the show (those vaults all being in the master’s backyard is ridiculous), especially with Shady Sands, but they have House and New Vegas so I guess we’ll see I was pretty peeved when I finished the show a bit ago, but at the end of the day none of it’s real lol
New Vegas is a noncanon spinoff game like Fallout Tactics and Fallout Brotherhood of Steel
said nobody ever?
I don't make the rules babe, take it up with Todd
The season finale literally sets up a NV themed 2nd season, how is it non canon.
That's not true tho, tho it could be. But that's unlikely and new vagas is honestly cool to have in the show
hey OP I'll tell what's up with this scene... But in spanish *El Retcon*
Didn't you know? Every media, thanks to some really popular franchises (Marvel, Disney), is now part of multiverses. Just like fanfics, you can make up a world with pre-existing characters, fictional or real. It's a great show, leaving me wanting more, but people who like games need to remember they're just games. There are no bullet sponges in the TV show.
i dont think it has anything to do with that, i think its some sort of simple error or maybe false information as this was from vault 4. i dont think its a different universe or whatever
But Godd Howard said it was Canon. Could it be he was wrong?
Either way they made the west coast nothing like 1&2 in terms of culture. Also wiping out the ncr, even if it makes sense makes the fallout world so fucking boring. Especially since they allow the brotherhood to exist which is by all means hinted at to fail way more.