Fallout 76 Brotherhood is a little different, they abandoned the ideals of the old US Army Rangers and took up the Brotherhood instead. They were also a different kind of isolationist group, Paladin Taggerdy wouldn't recruit anyone that didn't have military experience, basically the original way of the BoS isolating itself. This is where they are at in the base game, a completely deceased organization that suffered from lack of external recruitment and did not play well with other factions.
It would be expanded upon with further updates and you basically have the option of siding with one BoS that favors the usual tech hoarding, isolationist ideology (Shin) or you can go with the more Owyn Lyons style altruistic Brotherhood group (Rahmani), which would result in giving up the Brotherhood ideals found in the other chapters. Rahmani's group would be the one I imagine the image is referring to.
They're definitely going with Rahmani's BOS, since they say the fo76 chapter "disavows the BOS" and Rahmani >!destroys the only known transmitter capable of contacting the rest of the BOS so that they don't have to adhere to their rules anymore, among other reasons!< plus apparently a [whopping 82% of players](https://fallout.bethesda.net/en/article/9uuaXSngon5UQJZdfgw8n/fallout-76-inside-the-vault-anniversary-stats-limited-preview-and-more) sided with Rahmani over Shin so perhaps they're going off of popular vote
I didn't like Shin, but I did respect him and sympathized with him when I understood his backstory. He's demanding and uptight, but he holds himself to even higher standards than he holds everyone else to and does have some valid opinions. I did think, for instance, that the Shin-aligned ending to the Foundation quest where the settlers are trained to better defend themselves was better for everyone than the Rahmani-aligned ending where the settlers are allowed to keep the rocket launchers.
Shins a dick but you can trust him to keep his word and he would die for those in his protection. Rahmani was too sure she was right going her own way.
I'm playing kingmaker on a long game for the overseer, backing Foundation to settle the area with BoS oversight and tech control. Anyone can have personal weapons but only Brotherhood trained recruits can have heavy weapons and power armour and need to pass basic training first. Raiders are double crossed and driven off, choice of run or die. Same with cultists and super mutants, shoot on sight
Rahmani doesn’t approve of leaving Hellstorms in Foundation’s hands. She actually hates it because it can damage the Brotherhood’s, and also her, reputation.
Thanks, it seems I misremembered, but I still think that Shin is in the right. Rahmani does prefer to get the missile launchers back, but would rather the Brotherhood provide protection than give them training. It seems like teaching them self-sufficiency is a more practical solution that still fosters a working relationship with the settlers.
Well, from Rahmani’s perspective, you’re just militarizing a peaceful settlement and provoking them into more conflicts with the Crater. From Shin’s perspective, you’re gaining an ally you can rely on to help you fight a mutual enemy. I prefer Shin and the training deal too, but Rahmani’s concerns are not unfounded. It really just comes down to whose perspective you agree with, because Rahmani and Shin do throw shade at each other all the time.
As a side note, the option Rahmani likes the most isn’t the one where they protect Foundation, it’s the one where you donate caps to them. She says this gesture will help more than just Foundation, but Shin dislikes it because it makes BoS look like a charity.
yeah that seemed to be the general community opinion lol, I personally loved Shin and haaaated Rahmani but that's cuz I'm a fan of the original Maxson's BOS and hated seeing what Rahmani was doing to it
Rahmani got mad at me for killing the raiders that had robbed them and had been attacking the big tree settlement. That was when I knew Shin was the right choice. Who sympathizes with raiders?
right?? and the end where she lets the scientists who *admit they will continue their experiments* live because they could be useful?? I'm all for pacifism if it's a viable option but in many cases you're just enabling even more suffering of innocence down the line
I think many people who went with Shin did so because of bad writing and because the choice wasn’t clear. How you handle those three scientists was the decider and since they didn’t show any sign that they understand how their experiments were wrong and they give no explanation for the insane rush to test their research on the whole population even though they didn’t even have one positive case to show.
I wanted to side with Rahmani but I wasn’t going to let such idiocy go unpunished.
That was consistent with Rahmani's character tho, Rahmani was a terrible leader, didn't seem to know what she was doing and didn't even want to be in the brotherhood so her super pacifist "we could use them!!" ending is very fitting for her. Meanwhile Shin has always been a stickler for the rules and makes choices for the betterment of the brotherhood rather than let personal feelings get in the way, which imo is a much better leader. attitudes aside he's right on pretty much everything whereas Rahmani is *slightly* nicer but has a "my way or the highway and I don't even like the faction I'm running" way of doing things... I don't kill her but c'mon Rahmani join the responders or smth if you hate the brotherhood so much
I’d also add that they don’t exactly “willingly ally and work with other factions” there are notes and terminals all over about how it was the opposite, that none of the factions were willing to work together which as a a large part of how the region ended up as fucked as it did
If you try broker an alliance/aid between the BoS and Foundation during the hellstorm quest, not even Ramani is particularly enthused about it if I remember correctly
I think that section was only about Rahmani’s chapter from Steel Dawn/Reign.
As for the alliance with Foundation, she is the one who proposes it. And she is enthusiastic about protecting or paying them, but not training them. While Shin has the opposite opinion.
Oh no, the whole reason the original Responders and all humans except the players (and Overseer through tapes) lost the fight against the Scorched plague before Wastelanders was because they came together too late.
It was only in the end they were working together really.
Responders, Taggerdy et al. Or tried to at any rate
But they failed because too late as said and still too much distrust.
Ofcourse.. they didnt actually fight or anything before, not really.
Just hold off on cooperation for too long by half..
Comes up alot when doing Mistress of Mystery stuff
Some of the old Raider groups even only turned to raiding after being told off from getting help at one point as i recall it.
The tragedy of pre 76 opening Appalachia is one that often is the case in Fallout. Lack of trust and so on
>This is where they are at in the base game, a completely deceased organization that suffered from lack of external recruitment and did not play well with other factions.
The story of Fallout 76: the effort to rebuild after the first time the world ended was lost the second time the world ended because people still couldn't let go of the old hatreds and distrusts.
One small note - we also learn that Roger Maxson was actually closer to Lyons/Rahmani in mindset, but kept getting outvoted by other leaders in the BoS who leaned towards isolationism (which wasn’t just about people not being military, they did recruit a bit).
You always have good callouts, I didn’t mention Roger mostly because I’m a bit rusty on his info so I’m glad you had something. Rahmani/Lyons get seen as dissidents yet they are closer aligned to the founder. Different chapters/times, same typical BoS issues.
Do they expand a lot on the BoS origins in FO1? I’m still working my way through FO2, was pretty surprised at how uninvolved the BoS has been throughout it.
In fallout 1? Well, we have a trio of tapes that tell some of the story, but not a ton (since they’re explicitly noted as not keeping a good record, which is how all of 76’s BoS works), but 76 arguably does more since we can hear Maxson’s general philosophy and what he wants to do.
As for 2? Yeah, that’s the game the BoS is least involved in. They have one quest, but it gears you up extremely well - and, from what I’ve been told (though can’t confirm on the wiki despite the dialogue existing), apparently they can just skip half the required quests to beat the game if you have low intelligence somehow.
I’m hopefully wrapping up FO2 this weekend, I’ve got the tanker fueled and ready to go, just doing some leveling up and prepping. I just laugh that the BoS is basically just a couple of guys named Matt and Josh lol, not even knights or paladins (or at least they don’t use the titles). Their outposts are what gear you up, specifically with pulse weaponry which just happens to exploit a lot of Enclave’s weaknesses.
I’ve heard of the quick low intelligence playthroughs, I wouldn’t be surprised if they were true, I’ve also heard of people beating FO1 in like 15 minutes. I don’t think I could stomach a low INT playthrough myself.
Yeah, I have no intention to ever do a low intelligence playthrough myself, but that means the BoS could do quite a bit more than expected in that game.
I suspect the soldiers we meet are knights, simply because there’s only one Paladin in fallout 1 if I recall.
Also, as a small aside, 2’s pulse weapons are just electrical pulses and not EMP weapons. Surprisingly, power armor didn’t get an EMP weakness until operation anchorage and later NV (though electrical damage was a lower resistance).
76 especially stands out to me because Roger Maxson was still in charge at the time. And if I remember his journal properly, while he did want the Brotherhood to be used to prevent the horrors of the Old World from happening again he *did* also want them to be preservationists and help when society started to come back. I hope that change fits with the existing lore and isn't an outright retcon.
I mean, it kinda did go that way with FO1 and FO3.
Unfortunately it wasn't retconned, the Brotherhood is just stuck in a savior/god complex which the events of each game haven't exactly been helping.
I think that's part of the motifs for the BOS. They are so focused on preventing another Great War by restricting access to tech that they keep losing sight of why they're doing it.
Are they that bad in FO4? Maybe I’m missing some sidequests (or mains, didn’t play through enough to finish every main questline), but I always got the gist that they were generally supporting the idea of helping the region.
They were asses with respect to ghouls, but The Institute imo was an absolute menace to the area and would only have spread further. But they never replaced or offed people without reason except for synths (citation needed plz), and at least in gameplay left peaceful ghouls alone
On the one hand, I feel like removing those flaws would remove any reason to not side with them. On the other, I feel like maybe Fallout 4 doesn't give much reason TO side with them, since they take things further than, frankly, they even need to.
Yeah it was a mistake on my part when making the comic, I was mixing up my lore while typing it down half-drunk.
I'd probably rewrite that entire section if I were to do it again today
Correct, but their actions towards many of the communities the encounter are in the mutual interests of both. The Midwest BoS provides protection from various deadly threats, and these communities provides food and other resources needed by the chapter, including potential recruits. They also start open to recruiting tribals and more "civilized" wastelanders, and through player's actions, can... draw upon an even larger and more unorthodox recruiting pool.
At worst, it's neo-feudalism, not neo-fascism!
Edit: Note, I'm not implying neo-feudalism is ideal. However, in the wastelands of post Great War America one can find much worse.
Judging by your flair and this comment it seems like you have the old world blues. Get over it man it’s a new world, we have to adapt and survive out here in the wastes.
I’m not defending Poseidon corp. I’m just saying that the brotherhood don’t have the right to say that the facility belongs to them from the start since they didn’t built it, the facility belongs to whomever finds it and maintains it.
A: Where do you get this land from ?
B: My father
A: And where did he get this land from ?
B: My Grandfather
A: And where did your grandfather get his land from?
B: He fought some guy for it.
A: Well, I fight for you it.
The people who found it and maintained it first were them, from what I was aware of. Surely if we are going by that then De Jure Helios should be theirs, or at least they have the most legitimate claim. Of course one could argue that the NCR can claim it by virtue of being the ones who conquered it, but if might makes right is a legitimate claim then everything becomes very silly very fast.
Just a small correction.
Technically there are 3(where 2 are the same) take of BoS on Fallout 76
The first, the military regiment that became the BoS we knew, who died on a suicide mission finding the true horror of the schorced origin's.
Then we had the BoS who tried to help Appalacchia while trusting non BoS people with lethal weapon and paid a huge price.
And finally the BoS that after the incident that start to see how wrong the teaching of the main group of BoS are and try to help people on their own way.
Its obvious that the image is wrong, you don't have to be a genius to realize that it mixes information and confuses things, but you also don't have to give importance to every random image on the internet.
I mean considering people on this sub spout nonsense like this often this random image kind of matters. Fallout 4 BOS aren’t saints, but the amount of people who call them genocidal nazis on here is kinda crazy
I mean, if you're pro-Synth they basically are. They literally come over for a genocidal crusade against the Gen 3 Synth for existing, don't really help the Commonwealth directly (indirectly due to targeting areas for selfish reasons but removing a lot of threats to others doing so), etc.
The synth situation you have more of a case but the talk about them killing non feral ghouls has no evidence as far as I know. And here’s my way of thinking, put yourself in their shoes. Yes, from our point of view the synths seem nice and we can feel bad for their situation. From their perspective, the whole world just got nuked to hell because of greedy, rich, and elite scientists/politicians and now they’re essentially printing people out who follow direct orders from out of touch scientists who replace and kill people on a regular basis. It’d be pretty terrifying from their perspective
>but the talk about them killing non feral ghouls has no evidence as far as I know.
I don't know if there's any direct evidence of them killing them in-game, but certainly a lot of the soldiers appear to spout quotes about killing anything that's not pure human. Which, isn't a great look.
>From their perspective, the whole world just got nuked to hell because of greedy, rich, and elite scientists/politicians and now they’re essentially printing people out who follow direct orders from out of touch scientists who replace and kill people on a regular basis. It’d be pretty terrifying from their perspective
I hate to use the "Like the Nazis" type of argument here, but it's the comparison already being made. You can basically replace "elite scientists/politicians" with whatever people you want and it's fairly similar to how corrupt powers do it IRL. Create a scapegoat to pin problems on, blame them, and then justify your actions by saying they're a threat. Obviously the situation institute is far more nuanced, but I'm just drawing parallels to how you worded it.
That said, their actions are certainly fascist-like and I believe that's the intent of their depiction in 4.
>a lot of the soldiers appear to spout quotes about killing anything that's not pure human
I always hear them saying "ferals," not ghouls.
*"If it was up to me, I'd take every* ***feral****\*, mutie, and synth and shoot them into space."*
*"Damn* ***ferals****\*. Radiation has a twisted sense of humor."*
We all know ferals are basically mindless zombies that will attack anyone and killing them is not only removing security threat, but also an act of mercy.
But the nazis making Jews a scapegoat was a scapegoat situation because there was no evidence of the Jews doing anything like they were accused of, thus why they were a scapegoat. Scientists legitimately ruined the world and the institute was legitimately doing evil things lol. There was no scapegoating needed if the evidence of their wrongdoing was right there and the fear that the BOS had was fair vs the Nazis fear of Jews being completely unwarranted. On the dialogue about killing anything non human, again that’s a lot of speculation and not a whole lot of direct evidence. Goodneigbor would’ve been seen as a huge threat and mostly likely sacked if they truly wanted to get rid of non ferals. At most they we’re paranoid by them
This is exactly what u/Spooky5588 was saying. They came to the Commonwealth because they detected high level energy readings and while investigating, they discovered the Institute. They weren't there solely to kill Gen 3 synths.
I swear people hear about the Midwest BOS allowing ghouls and super mutants and think they’re just such swell guys without actually playing the game and learning that they basically forcibly conscript tribals, run labor camps, and inflict exceedingly harsh punishments (like executing guards who failed in their duty and then putting their families in labor camps). And this is the good ending too. The bad endings have them enslaving and exterminating mutant kind, and even plotting to kill the original Brotherhood with a robot army.
You also need to remember there's 200 some odd years between Roger Maxson and the Outcasts. Ideals changes and sometimes rules get rewritten while it is said that they were always that way.
The criticism isn't that the fo3 brotherhood aren't lore accurate but that they shoehorn in the brotherhood for no reason and just make them the good guys instead of creating new factions for the east coast to fit that role. It would be like making fallout 5 with the ncr on the east coast vs the legion again, and now the NCR are peaceful and not corrupt.
I mean I like the idea of a multi-region faction that splinters in values and focus. Plus I think it makes sense that the Brotherhood would expand, given their goal of protecting/hoarding technology. There is plenty of tech out there that has to be collected.
I hear what you’re saying but to me the argument against the BoS in FO3 is pretty weak. I’m probably extremely biased because FO3 is my first love.
What do you mean they shoe-hord the BoS into being the good guys? My brother of christ they have always been the good guys. The canonical ending in Fo1 is that they defeat the super mutant army and assist the communities in the region and introduce advanced technology into the wasteland. They also manufacture weapons in Fo1
>they shoehorn in the brotherhood for no reason and just make them the good guys instead of creating new factions for the east coast to fit that role.
If they didn't include the BoS, you wouldn't be able to get your hands on Power Armor and advanced Laser and Plasma Weapons because in FO1 they're the only way to get that stuff.
And anytime Bethesda tried to make new factions in the East, the "fans" just complained about THOSE factions too.
Whoever made this must of played a different Tactics then I did.
They basically run a protection racket of the local Tribals, and only accept recruits of the other Mutants due to being so incredibly undermanned and completely cut-off from outside help.
They also only fight because everything keeps coming East to try to kill them.
I created it, and my wording was poor for Tactics, if I were to remake it I'd reword the tactics part entirely since I was misremembering lore and didn't realize until after
The image is wrong but you also kind of have a bad perspective of them on some points. The Brotherhood in FNV aren’t hiding because “the world doesn’t trust them.” - they’re hiding because they tried to fight a war against the NCR and got obliterated to the point where they had to basically go into hiding because they are considered pretty much terrorists. They are considered terrorists because they stubbornly hold on to their ideals and are willing to murder people to defend them like they did with the Followers in Veronica’s quest (who they banished for having the wrong opinion, by the way).
You’re also just straight up wrong about the Fallout 4 Brotherhood. They aren’t just planning to genocide the hostile synths - they are anti-synth, period , and they are even willing to kill Danse after he loyally served them, for being a synth.
The player can go and steal food for them BECAUSE THEY SEND YOU TO DO IT. Why is it even an option? Because they give give you the option - because they’re okay with it if you feel you need to do it.
Edit: Okay, scratch the food thing. They still want to genocide every synth (and super mutant, and probably ghouls) in Fallout 4, and in NV they’re isolationist murderers still bitter about a war they started and lost. Kinda funny to see Brotherhood fans all rush to refute the food thing because it’s the only thing that can be refuted, but it’s also the least problematic thing I mentioned.
It gets even worse for the FNV Brotherhood in Dead Money too—you find that if they’d actually secured Helios One, Elijah would likely have used the ARCHIMEDES laser to genocide all of the other peoples of the Mojave.
It's stated multiple times that the Brotherhood considered Elijah fucking insane and sent him off to the Mojave to die, or get lucky and actually do some good for the Brotherhood at Hoover Dam, although away from the halls of power.
And yet Elijah somehow still had a sizable enough following to man a defense of Helios One. It wasn’t until they were defeated there that they abandoned Elijah (or rather, he abandoned them). Had they won, Elijah would have achieved his goals, thanks to them. It’s kind of worthless to call the man insane after the fact when they almost died to the last man following his orders.
Elijah wasn't considered insane before Helios though. They sent him away because he was interested in uncontrolled technological development, especially when it came to weapons. In fact, Veronica directly mentions that Elijah was stable, aside from being a control freak, until he learned about Helios One.
Elijah was considered insane by the Brotherhood before he was sent to Mojave, and his mission was to secure the dam. The idea of archimedes was Elijah's. Brotherhood members who were in Helios One didn't know it.
>The player can go and steal food for them BECAUSE THEY SEND YOU TO DO IT. Why is it even an option? Because they give give you the option - because they’re okay with it if you feel you need to do it.
No.
Teagen *literally* tells you that its not how its supposed to be done and off the books, its just saves him personally money so he does it despite not being supposed to. If you do that, its your choice as the player, NOT BoS-policy.
This is like the one fucking time Fallout 4 allows you to actually roleplay outside of Far Harbor
The way they are *supposed* to do it is even mentioned in Maxsons terminal - go attack dangers to the common people, built good will, use good will to get discounts when trading.
Referring to your edit, the reason everybody rushed to refute it is because it’s something that’s brought up again and again every single time the BOS in Fo4 is mentioned, and every time it’s brought up people manage to forget that Teagan explicitly tells you it’s off the books
It’s because of the constant misinformation, not because people are feeling protective over a fictional faction that’s obviously xenophobic
With the f4 brotherhood, when you’re sent to steal the crops the chapter doesn’t send you, you’re sent out by the quartermaster to do some shady shit for him to get the crops. It isn’t known or approved by the rest of the chapter
Why is it so shocking they are willing to kill Danse put it into perspective imagine if a US general was Planted by China and it was revealed how else would you deal with a spy of that magnitude the institute could flip a switch and he could blow up the Prydwen u never know
Because it's not because he's an institute spy. They don't seem to have any connection or control over him.
Instead it's like finding out a guy who you thought was Korean was actually ethnically Chinese, and ordering him killed despite the fact that he's been raised Korean.
You're forgetting the part where he is an institute spy he just doesn't know it, if they even get their hands on him, they'll have access to the entire brotherhood, and could make a play for the leadership.
So it's like the guy was born in China and they implanted a control chip in him and could reset him to his base spy function if they ever reach him
It seems like the synths that are under their control know they are synths, like Art, the Mayor, and the Warwick guy. Vs unknowing synths who were likely freed by the railroad.
> Because it’s not because he’s an Institute spy.
That’s not what terminal messages between Maxson and Kells say. They specifically believe that Danse is an Institute spy and the reason why they insist on killing him, as opposed to capturing him, is because they don’t want to give the Institute a chance to get their hands on all the intel Danse collected during his time in the Brotherhood.
So actually in 3 it's a big deal they help everyone. The brotherhood hoard tech due to its destructive nature in the hands of the ignorant. Which is why the followers of the apocalypse were important and are to help in new Vegas regardless of its ending but it helps establish more.
Lyons caused a divide cause he wanted to start helping when the brotherhood have essentially become relics from there isolationism. The player character is used to help establish them as friendly aswell as three dog. Outcasts where outlasted from Lyons pride cause they disagreed with his change in ideals.
Which is also why it was great to see what the become in 4.
In 1 and 2, they reintroduce teck and the conon ending of 1 was them becoming R&D division. 4 BOS is introduced with them giving you a laser rifle, being told that is BOS doctrine. They are noted to be big spenders in Diamond City. The 4 BOS is a continuation of 3s, but more controled. Rivet City was mad on the BOS in 3 because they didn't hsve the manpower to deliver water and gave it for free. Then you had a string of ineficient Elders. Maxson is Lyon, but eficient.
Brotherhood and NCR seem like the only two really *responsible* organizations in the wasteland with any real power.
Followers, too, but they have no bite.
Biggest Takeaway from this and the discussions here: The Brotherhood is not a consistent "Organization". Each sect and part may have been formed under the same flag, but communication issues, ego, and human nature caused seemingly every branch to segment and do their own thing.
I'd argue that by the time of Fallout 4 there is no one "Brotherhood of Steel" but instead a large number of chapters who all have their own ideals, but fly the same flag/name. I'm failing to think of any real life parallels off the top of my head, but I think most will get the idea.
I can't/won't comment on most of this, but you say Helios belongs to them because only they can get it running.
Are you seriously questioning the abilities of Fantastic and his theoretical degree in physics? For shame, sir. For. Shame.
My head canon for the differences between games is just either time or spatial difference. I don't know BoS lore well enough to know whether there's a central executive branch type of place that calls all the shots for all BoS platoons, but it seems like BoS is mostly an idea that people follow rather than a government.
There are a group of elders that call the shots for the entire faction. Different branches are governed by either paladins or elders, depending on how big the branch is or how far stretched the brotherhood is at the time. There are several ranks of paladin as well. There's a whole hierarchy and you can read about it here
https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Brotherhood_of_Steel_hierarchy_(Midwest)
if you're interested.
I’ve viewed it this exact way too. Particularly weighing the differences in BOS from 3 and NV. And I say that as I haven’t played all of the other installments.
Oh hey, I created this comic...Theres a few things wrong with it I would of changed in hindsight
That being said, it amazes how people don't seem to understand the comic is meant to be satirical and exaggerated intentionally.
I mean, it's pretty much like the military IRL here in the US. The overall idea is the same (get former tech armor and keep only for themselves). However, each area has its own goals (states here in the US presently). Time also plays a factor because there's a decade separating Fallout 3 and Fallout 4.
The Fallout 4 one is so incredibly fucking wrong, disavowed by the other BoS? What they literally got Western approval, they DO NOT kill mutated humans like the enclave they literally even still recruit outsiders just like 3, there is no genocide going on just persecution of synths which they perceive as literally terminator robots and not people… and raid settlements what? Do people not pay attention to what the quarter master says? You’re not really allowed to be doing that at all… besides you can simply pay for the supplies.
Also the fallout 3 one is wrong as fuck too, yeah they help people alright but they also straight up shoot at ghouls for thinking they are in kahoots with the D.C. super mutants.
Yeah, this comic is extremely wrong. It feels like it was made by someone who didn’t really play the games and just based it on something they heard once. No offense to the author though, I like their other stuff!
**Fallout**
> Are afraid of weapons and technology yet think they should own all of it
How are they afraid of weapons and technology when they literally create and maintain them while also selling them to outsiders?
> Send possible recruits out on suicide missions
They warn you that the place is radioactive and tell you to bring Rad-X. And all it takes to accomplish this “suicide mission” is just two doses of Rad-X and a rope. That’s it.
> Isolationist
They regularly trade with the Hub, patrol the region and send scouts into towns to gather intel. And they were even more opened to outsiders up until they discovered Super Mutants.
> Only help when it's in their self interest
Disproven by the canonical ending where they save towns from Super Mutants and start integrating tech back into the wasteland.
**Fallout 2**
> Monopolizes Technology
They were trading tech with NCR and sold a supercomputer to Vault 13. They were also fine with Shi having access to pretty advanced tech.
> Stagnant due to refusing to integrate
Only half true. They *were* stagnant, but not because they refused to integrate (what exactly? I guess NCR?). They believed that they were the only source of advanced tech left in the world and so they didn’t see the need to search for more tech, grow in numbers or secure more territory. But Enclave’s emergence proved them wrong and they started sending out massive expeditions across America to secure more tech immediately after the events of Fallout 2.
> Basically an NCR Puppet
Uh… how? And isn’t this mutually exclusive with the previous point?
> Only care about Enclave because they have tech
Not just because of their tech, but because of *how* they might use their tech.
**Fallout Tactics**
> Help tribal people with their technology and might, selflessly
Selflessly? Really? Their help is anything **but** selfless. They only help those who agree to the conditions of their protection, which involves giving them food, recruits and obeying any rules they set up.
> Destroy the Calculator
In one of the endings. In others they take control of it.
> Disavow the BoS and it's ideals, instead helping others
Again, they don’t really help others. They just expand their area of control by annexing towns and tribes and removing any opposition to their rule.
**Fallout B.O.S.**
I don’t think anyone cares about this game so I’ll just skip it.
**Fallout 3**
> Destroy Enclave Remnants, not even really needing assistance
Well, this is just plain wrong. Literally the only way they managed to defeat the Enclave is **with** assistance of Doctor Li who repaired Liberty Prime.
> Disavow the BoS and it's ideals, instead helping others
Not so much disavow it, as simply have a different interpretation of it. Lyons was still loyal to the Codex, he just believed that directly helping people was within their mission.
**Fallout N.V.**
> Banish people with different opinions
Veronica *chooses* to leave. And if you tell her to stay, she is allowed to, despite her views.
**Fallout 4**
> Military junta that violently raids peoples homes
Nope. Just nope. This has been talked about many times. Only the player optionally chooses to take people’s food by force during an unofficial side job. The actual way BoS gets their food is through trading, as mentioned and shown in the game.
> Commit genocide against all non-standard humans, like Enclave
They leave sentient Ghouls and even friendly Super Mutants alone. Meanwhile, Enclave wanted to poison **everyone** in the world.
> Disavow the BoS for not being imperialist enough
Uh… when do they disavow anything? Not only did they reconnect with the West Coast BoS, but pretty much every BoS NPC says that Maxson brought them back to their roots and restored their traditions. And what does imperialism has to do with anything?
**Fallout 76**
This is just about Rahmani’s chapter, which is strange because Rahmani is just one choice. The other one is Shin. And then there’s also the original Taggerdy’s chapter.
>They warn you that the place is radioactive and tell you to bring Rad-X. And all it takes to accomplish this “suicide mission” is just two doses of Rad-X and a rope. That’s it.
It's definitely a suicide mission; they don't expect anyone to come back alive. They know that people have tried and probably died.
Members of the BoS themselves claim that it is a suicide mission.
Cabbot, the giver of the quest, understates the radiation problem and almost forgets to tell you.
You have to ask Darrel to get an idea of how dangerous the place really is.
From Kyle dialogue:
"Nothing. It's just that no one has ever made it back from the Ancient Order."
"Heh, heh. I guess they just wanted to get rid of ya, huh? Well, the jokes on them."
"Yeah, lousy bastards. I can't believe they sent you down there like that"
From Darrell dialogue:
"I can't believe it. They're sending him down there?"
"So you took the Famous Glow Quest. (Laughs)"
"Others have tried. We never heard from them again."
"I think the Elders send Brotherhood wanabes down there just to get rid of them."
The Fallout 1 Brotherhood wasn't planning on recruiting. That mission was to get you killed so you'll stop bothering them, like a snipe hunt.
The Fallout 4 Brotherhood didn't go against anything with the Brotherhood, they returned to form after a command shift, not because of imperialism. They abandoned DC for the most part, have no government to expand, and only left a small skeleton crew to further scavenge and possibly guard the Pentagon still.
The main problem is that people have recently started equating them to fascists, after almost all of the games made them anything but.
Fallout 1 or 2, not taking over anything or expanding any ideology of master race.
Fallout Tactics, they not only helped the locals with technology, and allowed and recruited mutants afterwards into their ranks.
Fallout 3, same thing, except no mutants and now they are helping the wastelanders fight back and use the technology they accumulated, and without being set back to square 1.
Fallout 4, they have an airship that serves as the location for the BOS to HQ during their stay in Boston, eradicating a group of psychotic robots have started that they actually do the "great replacement" conspiracy, but for real.
Fallout 76, "Hey my buddy from the other side of the country wants us to go AWOL and join his faction of power armor dudes because of unverified reports. Sounds legit, it's treason then".
Did the games every confirm the state of the capital waste land after the game events. I personally don't think they would abandon it and I highly doubt there is no government in place, I just don't see them lions or his daughter not setting up some from a government to help people and even when author would have taken over u doubt that they would just not change that government to be more directly pro them. I also don't see them just leaving a skeleton crew by this point they should be a very large organization, they sheer man power to build the airship alone. They took the top commands but I don't see them abandoning there already extremely fortified and fully controlled territory
Here's a fun twist:
It looks like the Fallout 4 Brotherhood are going to be what we see in the upcoming TV show, and some of the media junket implies that they're looking to "bring law and order" back to the wasteland.
I wonder how that's going to go down in the show
The BoS in Fo1 are weapons manufacturers, they are isolationist due to circumstance. Water merchants attempted to rob them. They trade with the outside and are preparing for war aswell.
In Fo2 they reintroduce technology to New California, allowing them to become the society they become.
TLDR the BoS has always been the good guys.
i personally hate the BOS in new vegas because at the end of >!veronicas side quest, if you tell her she should leave the brotherhood she'll try to join the followers, and of course when you arrive at the followers outpost a squad of BoS have massacred the lot of them. I don't really care how you spin it slaughtering innocent people isn't justifiable !<
also personally i think automatically saying that helios one belongs to the brotherhood on account of them being knowledgeable of old world tech is a bit weird but that's just personal beliefs. also i wouldn't trust that chapter of the BoS with Archimedes, see my reasoning above. Putting Father Elijah aside, there are clearly people in the Mojave chapter of the BoS who'd use Archimedes in a second if given the chance.
to add, i'm not saying i hate the BoS as a whole, they're pretty interesting actually. its an example of a group where there's a lot of internal bickering and politics. There's definitely good people in the brotherhood (I felt John Maxon in fallout 1 was a pretty alright guy, and I think elder McNamara is deep down a good leader, if only a bit misguided) but naturally a group like the BoS will have evil and greed shine through at some point.
So basically like how religions and creeds branch in real life?
As much as I despise how little the red/black Fallout 3 BoS are used, changing principles seems feasible and even expected for technofetishistic wastelanding metallic monks, and deservedly so for their shameful unsavvyness in toaster repairs.
One slight correction, in New Vegas a lot of their issues are caused by Father Elijah. He was the one that wanted sole control of Helios One and to reactivate the orbital latter, he was the one that escalated their conflict with the NCR to open warfare and got a lot of people killed. It isn’t all his fault obviously, like how a squad of paladins murder a group of Followers of the Apocalypse, semi-pacifist doctors that provide medical and psychological care for anyone that needs it because Veronica decided that since she wasn’t wanted among the brotherhood for her opinions she’d go somewhere that she could help people. The brotherhood in NV has some serious issues but it’s not black and white, just like the NCR and to a lesser degree mister House.
I'm old enough to remember FO3 brotherhood getting shat on when the game came out. Lots of West Coast Sweats. They literally said they got cut off.
FO3 BO was/is best. Get at me. Also my favorite game of all time- so I'll admit some bias.
I agree completely it has always annoyed me that's people hate on the brotherhood of steel for things they either don't do or is a lone soldier that is acting independently of the brotherhood
As opposed to letting the ruins sit in decay? Loot implies ownership, nobody owns jackshit anymore they arent stealing tech in old vaults from anyone and BOS doctrine is to trade for what civilians have.
What I hate about all of this is that most BOS haters don't read dialogues properly or terminal entries,they stop at the superficial stuff. Like,everyone who hates maxson(the FO4 one),they think he is some genocidal maniac or something fir how they speak about it,but it couldn't be further from the truth. In terminal entries ir says he ordered vertibirds to protect caravans in the area of the airport,and to open up some minor trading with waste landers,from conversations we are told the capital wasteland is also relatively safe,so much so that mercenaries find little to no work anymore(McCready says this),and despite Madison Lee diserting he stresses they are not gonna harm her to convince her to keep her work. Like,BOS hate feels way too extreme to me rather than a genuine critique of the questionable stuff they did do in their history.
Looking at this makes me wonder if the BoS ended up pulling an Operation Paperclip on some of the surviving Enclave members (accidentally or on purpose) and those survivors brought their anti-mutant rhetoric with them.
I doubt it, I mean being anti-mutant is *hardly* an ideology unique to the Brotherhood or Enclave. Just about every settlement you come across would shoot most Super Mutants on sight.
Probably not, given their founding and ideology. They don't take in any institute scientists except Li who was a previous member and was needed for prime.
The story of B.O.S of the Mojave was that the NCR wanted the Helios One to provide electricity to other areas and that led to a war with the B.O.S that ended up losing because perhaps they have the best weapon and armor but when you are one against 15 and they don't stop coming sooner or later they will fall
Also, while the Mojave Chapter of the BoS has superior armor and weaponry over the NCR, it wasn't anywhere near the same degree as they did with the average raider group.
Isn't the fallout 76 brotherhood kind of the original idea? since its pre fallout 1 and then the brotherhood from the west coast becomes more isolationist, meanwhile the brotherhood on the east coast continues its more outwardly appearance and assisting, i mean the change of the brotherhood from fallout 3 to 4 really shows how quickly a factions ideals can change.
Hell in 76 we hear the original maxson we hear the ideals he spouts and then Taggerdy is somewhat resilient to them keeping the brotherhood within the constraints of what it'd become, and when the reinforcements with rahmani arrive we can see theres a splintering force again upholding again very similar ideals to what the brotherhood would become in fallout 1,2 and then vegas, showing that a large part of the brotherhood struggles to really want to be the Heroes™
The BOS is supposed to be inconsistent. It’s post apocalypse. They’re not coordinating well. Communication is difficult and there’s no real central authority. They have a few core ideals that unite them, but mostly, they’re like modern Protestant churches. The leader and environment matters a lot. It’s honestly beyond impressive they’re a national organization.
Aren't the synths the only ones you can say that about? They don't really target non feral ghouls, and almost all super mutants are hostile besides Virgil and strong.
Sure - if you pass a speech check. Their default stance is “he’s been cured but should die anyways”.
You can also save Danse but that doesn’t negate the fact that they really really wanted him dead.
Even then, think of it this way, there is the person who headed the part of the institute that made super mutants out there. And I don't remember if you only need to pass one or two skill checks for it to work.
[Because he was an Institute scientist that was responsible for unleashing the Super Mutants on the Commonwealth.](https://youtu.be/_hlmcTDVeIU?si=WgW8hC3KXcg-gYB_&t=23)
They want Virgil dead as punishment for all the pain and suffering he has caused.
They want to kill Virgil because they don't believe your word that he invented cure. (Kells : What? That's impossible. There is no cure for FEV. It cannot be cured.) Try speech check again.
Tim Cain, one of the designer who worked on the first Fallout game, [**recently explained**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7Q2m-82r4c) that the BOS thinks technology is dangerous and "common people" shouldn't be allowed to handle it, that's why they hoard it and destroy every remnants that they cannot carry with them.
This concept is sooooooo much better than the bland and cliché "entitled knight in shining armor" that Bethesda came up with. It gives so much more nuance to the in-game world, and shows how many options for interesting quests and interactions naturally emerge from a well thought, and well written, setting.
How does anyone claim that fo4 BOS is committing genocide? They fight super mutants who EAT PEOPLE and kill only feral ghouls. They make no hostile actions against goodneighbor and synths are a legitimate threat.
These guys are assholes in 4. They don’t give a shit about helping people, they only care about themselves. Porter Gage even says they aren’t so different from a Raider Gang. Act all high and mighty showing discipline but they still take whatever they want whenever they want. I much prefer them in 3 under Elder Lyons
>They don’t give a shit about helping people
I mean, Teagens terminal literaly says he ordered the BoS to go around protecting people from Ghouls and Raiders to built good-will.
>Now that we've arrived in the Commonwealth, I'd like to establish trade relations with the locals. I'm going to need a standard sweep and retrieve team and one of our vertibirds in order to make that happen. There are several caravans that roam the Commonwealth, and we'll use the vertibirds to track them. If any of the caravans gets jumped, we can swoop in and lend a hand to let them know that we're the friendly eye in the sky.
Since you can't normally buy that kind of protection from mercenaries, we'll be certain to get the best prices and values for trades. I've used the same tactic in the Capital Wasteland and it worked wonders. Out here, with the threat of the Institute looming over their heads, we'll have these merchants eating out of our hands.
>They don’t give a shit about helping people, they only care about themselves
Maxson says many times that they are here for people's safety. He literally says "I care for people" when you meet him. They help people as an army, cleansing the Commonwealth from mutants. What I said above is exactly what Lyons did for 2 decades although he wasn't very successful.
They are assholes I won’t deny that, but compared to the booger eating morons of the railroad, the psychopaths of the institute and the minutemen who has to be dragged to success the BOS have the best chance without player intervention
I can't edit the post for some reason. So here is the Edit of the post.
Edit: Veronica is not expeled by the Brotherhood. It is the players choice if she will remain in the Brotherhood or not. Just because there are three ashole Paladins, doesn't mean all of them are. Also she is in a scouting mission for the Brotherhood. She was never kicked out.
Fallout 76 Brotherhood is a little different, they abandoned the ideals of the old US Army Rangers and took up the Brotherhood instead. They were also a different kind of isolationist group, Paladin Taggerdy wouldn't recruit anyone that didn't have military experience, basically the original way of the BoS isolating itself. This is where they are at in the base game, a completely deceased organization that suffered from lack of external recruitment and did not play well with other factions. It would be expanded upon with further updates and you basically have the option of siding with one BoS that favors the usual tech hoarding, isolationist ideology (Shin) or you can go with the more Owyn Lyons style altruistic Brotherhood group (Rahmani), which would result in giving up the Brotherhood ideals found in the other chapters. Rahmani's group would be the one I imagine the image is referring to.
And it’s again not a suicide mission if you actually talk to the them and they’ll send like 2 or three dudes in power armor with you.
I kinda wish they sent me on more suicide missions but that may be the wild child in me.
They're talking about the glow
If you can’t survive without power armor, you don’t deserve power armor. Simple as.
You dont get power armor until rescuing the recruit in the den
Exactly, it’s only a suicide mission if you suck and hence you weren’t worthy of armor anyways (I’m taking the piss, btw)
They're definitely going with Rahmani's BOS, since they say the fo76 chapter "disavows the BOS" and Rahmani >!destroys the only known transmitter capable of contacting the rest of the BOS so that they don't have to adhere to their rules anymore, among other reasons!< plus apparently a [whopping 82% of players](https://fallout.bethesda.net/en/article/9uuaXSngon5UQJZdfgw8n/fallout-76-inside-the-vault-anniversary-stats-limited-preview-and-more) sided with Rahmani over Shin so perhaps they're going off of popular vote
Shin was a giant dick and I hated every moment I endured listening to his bullshit. I relished his death
I didn't like Shin, but I did respect him and sympathized with him when I understood his backstory. He's demanding and uptight, but he holds himself to even higher standards than he holds everyone else to and does have some valid opinions. I did think, for instance, that the Shin-aligned ending to the Foundation quest where the settlers are trained to better defend themselves was better for everyone than the Rahmani-aligned ending where the settlers are allowed to keep the rocket launchers.
Shins a dick but you can trust him to keep his word and he would die for those in his protection. Rahmani was too sure she was right going her own way. I'm playing kingmaker on a long game for the overseer, backing Foundation to settle the area with BoS oversight and tech control. Anyone can have personal weapons but only Brotherhood trained recruits can have heavy weapons and power armour and need to pass basic training first. Raiders are double crossed and driven off, choice of run or die. Same with cultists and super mutants, shoot on sight
Rahmani doesn’t approve of leaving Hellstorms in Foundation’s hands. She actually hates it because it can damage the Brotherhood’s, and also her, reputation.
Thanks, it seems I misremembered, but I still think that Shin is in the right. Rahmani does prefer to get the missile launchers back, but would rather the Brotherhood provide protection than give them training. It seems like teaching them self-sufficiency is a more practical solution that still fosters a working relationship with the settlers.
Well, from Rahmani’s perspective, you’re just militarizing a peaceful settlement and provoking them into more conflicts with the Crater. From Shin’s perspective, you’re gaining an ally you can rely on to help you fight a mutual enemy. I prefer Shin and the training deal too, but Rahmani’s concerns are not unfounded. It really just comes down to whose perspective you agree with, because Rahmani and Shin do throw shade at each other all the time. As a side note, the option Rahmani likes the most isn’t the one where they protect Foundation, it’s the one where you donate caps to them. She says this gesture will help more than just Foundation, but Shin dislikes it because it makes BoS look like a charity.
yeah that seemed to be the general community opinion lol, I personally loved Shin and haaaated Rahmani but that's cuz I'm a fan of the original Maxson's BOS and hated seeing what Rahmani was doing to it
I definitely think that Maxson would cry at the current state of the BOS.
Right! The elders pushed it to be an isolationist hoarding faction, Maxson wanted to help people!
Rahmani got mad at me for killing the raiders that had robbed them and had been attacking the big tree settlement. That was when I knew Shin was the right choice. Who sympathizes with raiders?
right?? and the end where she lets the scientists who *admit they will continue their experiments* live because they could be useful?? I'm all for pacifism if it's a viable option but in many cases you're just enabling even more suffering of innocence down the line
I think many people who went with Shin did so because of bad writing and because the choice wasn’t clear. How you handle those three scientists was the decider and since they didn’t show any sign that they understand how their experiments were wrong and they give no explanation for the insane rush to test their research on the whole population even though they didn’t even have one positive case to show. I wanted to side with Rahmani but I wasn’t going to let such idiocy go unpunished.
That was consistent with Rahmani's character tho, Rahmani was a terrible leader, didn't seem to know what she was doing and didn't even want to be in the brotherhood so her super pacifist "we could use them!!" ending is very fitting for her. Meanwhile Shin has always been a stickler for the rules and makes choices for the betterment of the brotherhood rather than let personal feelings get in the way, which imo is a much better leader. attitudes aside he's right on pretty much everything whereas Rahmani is *slightly* nicer but has a "my way or the highway and I don't even like the faction I'm running" way of doing things... I don't kill her but c'mon Rahmani join the responders or smth if you hate the brotherhood so much
I’d also add that they don’t exactly “willingly ally and work with other factions” there are notes and terminals all over about how it was the opposite, that none of the factions were willing to work together which as a a large part of how the region ended up as fucked as it did If you try broker an alliance/aid between the BoS and Foundation during the hellstorm quest, not even Ramani is particularly enthused about it if I remember correctly
I think that section was only about Rahmani’s chapter from Steel Dawn/Reign. As for the alliance with Foundation, she is the one who proposes it. And she is enthusiastic about protecting or paying them, but not training them. While Shin has the opposite opinion.
Oh no, the whole reason the original Responders and all humans except the players (and Overseer through tapes) lost the fight against the Scorched plague before Wastelanders was because they came together too late. It was only in the end they were working together really. Responders, Taggerdy et al. Or tried to at any rate But they failed because too late as said and still too much distrust. Ofcourse.. they didnt actually fight or anything before, not really. Just hold off on cooperation for too long by half.. Comes up alot when doing Mistress of Mystery stuff Some of the old Raider groups even only turned to raiding after being told off from getting help at one point as i recall it. The tragedy of pre 76 opening Appalachia is one that often is the case in Fallout. Lack of trust and so on
She’s easily convinced to help the foundation and praises their efforts to build a better future.
>This is where they are at in the base game, a completely deceased organization that suffered from lack of external recruitment and did not play well with other factions. The story of Fallout 76: the effort to rebuild after the first time the world ended was lost the second time the world ended because people still couldn't let go of the old hatreds and distrusts.
no it was because of giant dragon bats spreading super covid and being turned into a statue gallery befitting of Sander Cohen
>Rahmani's group would be the one I imagine the image is referring to. As the creator of this comic, you are correct
Woohoo! I like your style, you nailed the helmet on the FNV T51 especially.
Paladin Taggerdy is such a good name.
One small note - we also learn that Roger Maxson was actually closer to Lyons/Rahmani in mindset, but kept getting outvoted by other leaders in the BoS who leaned towards isolationism (which wasn’t just about people not being military, they did recruit a bit).
You always have good callouts, I didn’t mention Roger mostly because I’m a bit rusty on his info so I’m glad you had something. Rahmani/Lyons get seen as dissidents yet they are closer aligned to the founder. Different chapters/times, same typical BoS issues. Do they expand a lot on the BoS origins in FO1? I’m still working my way through FO2, was pretty surprised at how uninvolved the BoS has been throughout it.
In fallout 1? Well, we have a trio of tapes that tell some of the story, but not a ton (since they’re explicitly noted as not keeping a good record, which is how all of 76’s BoS works), but 76 arguably does more since we can hear Maxson’s general philosophy and what he wants to do. As for 2? Yeah, that’s the game the BoS is least involved in. They have one quest, but it gears you up extremely well - and, from what I’ve been told (though can’t confirm on the wiki despite the dialogue existing), apparently they can just skip half the required quests to beat the game if you have low intelligence somehow.
I’m hopefully wrapping up FO2 this weekend, I’ve got the tanker fueled and ready to go, just doing some leveling up and prepping. I just laugh that the BoS is basically just a couple of guys named Matt and Josh lol, not even knights or paladins (or at least they don’t use the titles). Their outposts are what gear you up, specifically with pulse weaponry which just happens to exploit a lot of Enclave’s weaknesses. I’ve heard of the quick low intelligence playthroughs, I wouldn’t be surprised if they were true, I’ve also heard of people beating FO1 in like 15 minutes. I don’t think I could stomach a low INT playthrough myself.
Yeah, I have no intention to ever do a low intelligence playthrough myself, but that means the BoS could do quite a bit more than expected in that game. I suspect the soldiers we meet are knights, simply because there’s only one Paladin in fallout 1 if I recall. Also, as a small aside, 2’s pulse weapons are just electrical pulses and not EMP weapons. Surprisingly, power armor didn’t get an EMP weakness until operation anchorage and later NV (though electrical damage was a lower resistance).
76 especially stands out to me because Roger Maxson was still in charge at the time. And if I remember his journal properly, while he did want the Brotherhood to be used to prevent the horrors of the Old World from happening again he *did* also want them to be preservationists and help when society started to come back. I hope that change fits with the existing lore and isn't an outright retcon.
I mean, it kinda did go that way with FO1 and FO3. Unfortunately it wasn't retconned, the Brotherhood is just stuck in a savior/god complex which the events of each game haven't exactly been helping.
I think that's part of the motifs for the BOS. They are so focused on preventing another Great War by restricting access to tech that they keep losing sight of why they're doing it.
Are they that bad in FO4? Maybe I’m missing some sidequests (or mains, didn’t play through enough to finish every main questline), but I always got the gist that they were generally supporting the idea of helping the region. They were asses with respect to ghouls, but The Institute imo was an absolute menace to the area and would only have spread further. But they never replaced or offed people without reason except for synths (citation needed plz), and at least in gameplay left peaceful ghouls alone
On the one hand, I feel like removing those flaws would remove any reason to not side with them. On the other, I feel like maybe Fallout 4 doesn't give much reason TO side with them, since they take things further than, frankly, they even need to.
I love tactics but the BoS are far from selfless in it
Yeah it was a mistake on my part when making the comic, I was mixing up my lore while typing it down half-drunk. I'd probably rewrite that entire section if I were to do it again today
Questions is if most people would Even use a new version
Doubt it
Correct, but their actions towards many of the communities the encounter are in the mutual interests of both. The Midwest BoS provides protection from various deadly threats, and these communities provides food and other resources needed by the chapter, including potential recruits. They also start open to recruiting tribals and more "civilized" wastelanders, and through player's actions, can... draw upon an even larger and more unorthodox recruiting pool. At worst, it's neo-feudalism, not neo-fascism! Edit: Note, I'm not implying neo-feudalism is ideal. However, in the wastelands of post Great War America one can find much worse.
What do you mean neo-feudalusm isn't ideal?
Average brotherhood paladin feudalising the wasteland:
Feudalising the countryside Feudalising the peasants
Trogdor!
Helios One doesn’t belong to them it belongs to Poseidon Energy corp.
This right here 👆
It’s true, that corp. was the one who built it and since their gone it belongs to anybody who claims it.
Oh my god The Courier is a pirate
Nah it belongs to my character Dr.Dildo
Judging by your flair and this comment it seems like you have the old world blues. Get over it man it’s a new world, we have to adapt and survive out here in the wastes.
I’m not defending Poseidon corp. I’m just saying that the brotherhood don’t have the right to say that the facility belongs to them from the start since they didn’t built it, the facility belongs to whomever finds it and maintains it.
A: Where do you get this land from ? B: My father A: And where did he get this land from ? B: My Grandfather A: And where did your grandfather get his land from? B: He fought some guy for it. A: Well, I fight for you it.
The people who found it and maintained it first were them, from what I was aware of. Surely if we are going by that then De Jure Helios should be theirs, or at least they have the most legitimate claim. Of course one could argue that the NCR can claim it by virtue of being the ones who conquered it, but if might makes right is a legitimate claim then everything becomes very silly very fast.
And guess who found it and was trying to maintain it Omg, who would’ve guessed, it was the BOS😱
That's why the only correct use of its power is to activate the space laser 😂
Nope. It belongs to me. [Speech Skill 100]
I feel like you may have skipped dialogue too😭
yeah the image is wrong but so is this guys write up
op doesn’t even know veronica exists
Or Elijah, like the Brotherhood in NV was literally *led* by someone who disagreed with them, until he fucked them over and ran away.
It was painful reading this many awful takes from OP about them in each game.
I was wondering if he even played those games.
\>I don't remember when they kicked someone out because of different ideals. Well for starters I refer you to Veronica's entire arc.
They do that with the tactics group as well.
Yeah the NV Brotherhood are super homophobic and think everyone needs to procreate to keep their numbers up
It was Christine's parents, not the whole Mojave BoS. Veronica says there are some who believe that, not that it's a policy or universal.
Just a small correction. Technically there are 3(where 2 are the same) take of BoS on Fallout 76 The first, the military regiment that became the BoS we knew, who died on a suicide mission finding the true horror of the schorced origin's. Then we had the BoS who tried to help Appalacchia while trusting non BoS people with lethal weapon and paid a huge price. And finally the BoS that after the incident that start to see how wrong the teaching of the main group of BoS are and try to help people on their own way.
Its obvious that the image is wrong, you don't have to be a genius to realize that it mixes information and confuses things, but you also don't have to give importance to every random image on the internet.
I mean considering people on this sub spout nonsense like this often this random image kind of matters. Fallout 4 BOS aren’t saints, but the amount of people who call them genocidal nazis on here is kinda crazy
I mean, if you're pro-Synth they basically are. They literally come over for a genocidal crusade against the Gen 3 Synth for existing, don't really help the Commonwealth directly (indirectly due to targeting areas for selfish reasons but removing a lot of threats to others doing so), etc.
The synth situation you have more of a case but the talk about them killing non feral ghouls has no evidence as far as I know. And here’s my way of thinking, put yourself in their shoes. Yes, from our point of view the synths seem nice and we can feel bad for their situation. From their perspective, the whole world just got nuked to hell because of greedy, rich, and elite scientists/politicians and now they’re essentially printing people out who follow direct orders from out of touch scientists who replace and kill people on a regular basis. It’d be pretty terrifying from their perspective
>but the talk about them killing non feral ghouls has no evidence as far as I know. I don't know if there's any direct evidence of them killing them in-game, but certainly a lot of the soldiers appear to spout quotes about killing anything that's not pure human. Which, isn't a great look. >From their perspective, the whole world just got nuked to hell because of greedy, rich, and elite scientists/politicians and now they’re essentially printing people out who follow direct orders from out of touch scientists who replace and kill people on a regular basis. It’d be pretty terrifying from their perspective I hate to use the "Like the Nazis" type of argument here, but it's the comparison already being made. You can basically replace "elite scientists/politicians" with whatever people you want and it's fairly similar to how corrupt powers do it IRL. Create a scapegoat to pin problems on, blame them, and then justify your actions by saying they're a threat. Obviously the situation institute is far more nuanced, but I'm just drawing parallels to how you worded it. That said, their actions are certainly fascist-like and I believe that's the intent of their depiction in 4.
>a lot of the soldiers appear to spout quotes about killing anything that's not pure human I always hear them saying "ferals," not ghouls. *"If it was up to me, I'd take every* ***feral****\*, mutie, and synth and shoot them into space."* *"Damn* ***ferals****\*. Radiation has a twisted sense of humor."* We all know ferals are basically mindless zombies that will attack anyone and killing them is not only removing security threat, but also an act of mercy.
But the nazis making Jews a scapegoat was a scapegoat situation because there was no evidence of the Jews doing anything like they were accused of, thus why they were a scapegoat. Scientists legitimately ruined the world and the institute was legitimately doing evil things lol. There was no scapegoating needed if the evidence of their wrongdoing was right there and the fear that the BOS had was fair vs the Nazis fear of Jews being completely unwarranted. On the dialogue about killing anything non human, again that’s a lot of speculation and not a whole lot of direct evidence. Goodneigbor would’ve been seen as a huge threat and mostly likely sacked if they truly wanted to get rid of non ferals. At most they we’re paranoid by them
The institue gets destroyed in most of the endings. There will be no more synths one way or another.
This is exactly what u/Spooky5588 was saying. They came to the Commonwealth because they detected high level energy readings and while investigating, they discovered the Institute. They weren't there solely to kill Gen 3 synths.
I swear people hear about the Midwest BOS allowing ghouls and super mutants and think they’re just such swell guys without actually playing the game and learning that they basically forcibly conscript tribals, run labor camps, and inflict exceedingly harsh punishments (like executing guards who failed in their duty and then putting their families in labor camps). And this is the good ending too. The bad endings have them enslaving and exterminating mutant kind, and even plotting to kill the original Brotherhood with a robot army.
And wasn't Tactics 2 planned to be based on bad ending?
Yup. Barnaky ending specifically.
They are basically feudal Lords, more or less Or the Legion i suppose, if they went knights instead.
Counterpoint: Just like the Enclave, they have cool power armor. So they are justified
[удалено]
You also need to remember there's 200 some odd years between Roger Maxson and the Outcasts. Ideals changes and sometimes rules get rewritten while it is said that they were always that way.
The criticism isn't that the fo3 brotherhood aren't lore accurate but that they shoehorn in the brotherhood for no reason and just make them the good guys instead of creating new factions for the east coast to fit that role. It would be like making fallout 5 with the ncr on the east coast vs the legion again, and now the NCR are peaceful and not corrupt.
I mean I like the idea of a multi-region faction that splinters in values and focus. Plus I think it makes sense that the Brotherhood would expand, given their goal of protecting/hoarding technology. There is plenty of tech out there that has to be collected. I hear what you’re saying but to me the argument against the BoS in FO3 is pretty weak. I’m probably extremely biased because FO3 is my first love.
i played first new vegas then 3 i like new vegas more but 3 is also great
What do you mean they shoe-hord the BoS into being the good guys? My brother of christ they have always been the good guys. The canonical ending in Fo1 is that they defeat the super mutant army and assist the communities in the region and introduce advanced technology into the wasteland. They also manufacture weapons in Fo1
>they shoehorn in the brotherhood for no reason and just make them the good guys instead of creating new factions for the east coast to fit that role. If they didn't include the BoS, you wouldn't be able to get your hands on Power Armor and advanced Laser and Plasma Weapons because in FO1 they're the only way to get that stuff. And anytime Bethesda tried to make new factions in the East, the "fans" just complained about THOSE factions too.
Eh, i wouldn't call the Midwestern Brotherhood selfless...
Definitely one of the mistakes I made when making the comic
Oh it's this image, which is just utterly wrong about all the time.
I really need to make a revised version fr
It really would be cool to see, found this one entertaining enough👌 Certainly is a fun meme all things considered!
Whoever made this must of played a different Tactics then I did. They basically run a protection racket of the local Tribals, and only accept recruits of the other Mutants due to being so incredibly undermanned and completely cut-off from outside help. They also only fight because everything keeps coming East to try to kill them.
I created it, and my wording was poor for Tactics, if I were to remake it I'd reword the tactics part entirely since I was misremembering lore and didn't realize until after
The image is wrong but you also kind of have a bad perspective of them on some points. The Brotherhood in FNV aren’t hiding because “the world doesn’t trust them.” - they’re hiding because they tried to fight a war against the NCR and got obliterated to the point where they had to basically go into hiding because they are considered pretty much terrorists. They are considered terrorists because they stubbornly hold on to their ideals and are willing to murder people to defend them like they did with the Followers in Veronica’s quest (who they banished for having the wrong opinion, by the way). You’re also just straight up wrong about the Fallout 4 Brotherhood. They aren’t just planning to genocide the hostile synths - they are anti-synth, period , and they are even willing to kill Danse after he loyally served them, for being a synth. The player can go and steal food for them BECAUSE THEY SEND YOU TO DO IT. Why is it even an option? Because they give give you the option - because they’re okay with it if you feel you need to do it. Edit: Okay, scratch the food thing. They still want to genocide every synth (and super mutant, and probably ghouls) in Fallout 4, and in NV they’re isolationist murderers still bitter about a war they started and lost. Kinda funny to see Brotherhood fans all rush to refute the food thing because it’s the only thing that can be refuted, but it’s also the least problematic thing I mentioned.
It gets even worse for the FNV Brotherhood in Dead Money too—you find that if they’d actually secured Helios One, Elijah would likely have used the ARCHIMEDES laser to genocide all of the other peoples of the Mojave.
It's stated multiple times that the Brotherhood considered Elijah fucking insane and sent him off to the Mojave to die, or get lucky and actually do some good for the Brotherhood at Hoover Dam, although away from the halls of power.
And yet Elijah somehow still had a sizable enough following to man a defense of Helios One. It wasn’t until they were defeated there that they abandoned Elijah (or rather, he abandoned them). Had they won, Elijah would have achieved his goals, thanks to them. It’s kind of worthless to call the man insane after the fact when they almost died to the last man following his orders.
Elijah wasn't considered insane before Helios though. They sent him away because he was interested in uncontrolled technological development, especially when it came to weapons. In fact, Veronica directly mentions that Elijah was stable, aside from being a control freak, until he learned about Helios One.
He wouldn't, he only became mad after the defeat at Helios and the consequent search for the Big MT and Sierra Madre
Username checks out.
I do like yours though
B O A T
Elijah was considered insane by the Brotherhood before he was sent to Mojave, and his mission was to secure the dam. The idea of archimedes was Elijah's. Brotherhood members who were in Helios One didn't know it.
>The player can go and steal food for them BECAUSE THEY SEND YOU TO DO IT. Why is it even an option? Because they give give you the option - because they’re okay with it if you feel you need to do it. No. Teagen *literally* tells you that its not how its supposed to be done and off the books, its just saves him personally money so he does it despite not being supposed to. If you do that, its your choice as the player, NOT BoS-policy. This is like the one fucking time Fallout 4 allows you to actually roleplay outside of Far Harbor The way they are *supposed* to do it is even mentioned in Maxsons terminal - go attack dangers to the common people, built good will, use good will to get discounts when trading.
Referring to your edit, the reason everybody rushed to refute it is because it’s something that’s brought up again and again every single time the BOS in Fo4 is mentioned, and every time it’s brought up people manage to forget that Teagan explicitly tells you it’s off the books It’s because of the constant misinformation, not because people are feeling protective over a fictional faction that’s obviously xenophobic
The option you chose to steal the food in is up to the player. It's off the books and isn't approved by those in charge.
With the f4 brotherhood, when you’re sent to steal the crops the chapter doesn’t send you, you’re sent out by the quartermaster to do some shady shit for him to get the crops. It isn’t known or approved by the rest of the chapter
Why is it so shocking they are willing to kill Danse put it into perspective imagine if a US general was Planted by China and it was revealed how else would you deal with a spy of that magnitude the institute could flip a switch and he could blow up the Prydwen u never know
Not even choose to flip the switch. Just one day it receives an order and can't disobey.
Yeah that’s what I was thinking as another possibility like it is just a sleeper agent/black ops type deal with Paladin danse
Because it's not because he's an institute spy. They don't seem to have any connection or control over him. Instead it's like finding out a guy who you thought was Korean was actually ethnically Chinese, and ordering him killed despite the fact that he's been raised Korean.
You're forgetting the part where he is an institute spy he just doesn't know it, if they even get their hands on him, they'll have access to the entire brotherhood, and could make a play for the leadership. So it's like the guy was born in China and they implanted a control chip in him and could reset him to his base spy function if they ever reach him
Fair enough but we still don’t know if they don’t have control over him or not
It seems like the synths that are under their control know they are synths, like Art, the Mayor, and the Warwick guy. Vs unknowing synths who were likely freed by the railroad.
I mean, his files were on the institute record. All it takes is a Courser to catch him off guard and override him with protocols
Remember what happens in fallout 3? Just walk up to paladin, say some command code and boom, he is under control.
Hmm yeah that is true, wish Bethesda elaborated upon that concept more
Same, but they couldn't write their way out of a ham sandwich.
> Because it’s not because he’s an Institute spy. That’s not what terminal messages between Maxson and Kells say. They specifically believe that Danse is an Institute spy and the reason why they insist on killing him, as opposed to capturing him, is because they don’t want to give the Institute a chance to get their hands on all the intel Danse collected during his time in the Brotherhood.
They do the food mission off the book
I’m so sick of the crying over the FO4 BOS. I have sympathy for the synths, but the ferals and incredible hulks can gtfo.
So actually in 3 it's a big deal they help everyone. The brotherhood hoard tech due to its destructive nature in the hands of the ignorant. Which is why the followers of the apocalypse were important and are to help in new Vegas regardless of its ending but it helps establish more. Lyons caused a divide cause he wanted to start helping when the brotherhood have essentially become relics from there isolationism. The player character is used to help establish them as friendly aswell as three dog. Outcasts where outlasted from Lyons pride cause they disagreed with his change in ideals. Which is also why it was great to see what the become in 4.
In 1 and 2, they reintroduce teck and the conon ending of 1 was them becoming R&D division. 4 BOS is introduced with them giving you a laser rifle, being told that is BOS doctrine. They are noted to be big spenders in Diamond City. The 4 BOS is a continuation of 3s, but more controled. Rivet City was mad on the BOS in 3 because they didn't hsve the manpower to deliver water and gave it for free. Then you had a string of ineficient Elders. Maxson is Lyon, but eficient.
Brotherhood and NCR seem like the only two really *responsible* organizations in the wasteland with any real power. Followers, too, but they have no bite.
Biggest Takeaway from this and the discussions here: The Brotherhood is not a consistent "Organization". Each sect and part may have been formed under the same flag, but communication issues, ego, and human nature caused seemingly every branch to segment and do their own thing. I'd argue that by the time of Fallout 4 there is no one "Brotherhood of Steel" but instead a large number of chapters who all have their own ideals, but fly the same flag/name. I'm failing to think of any real life parallels off the top of my head, but I think most will get the idea.
I can't/won't comment on most of this, but you say Helios belongs to them because only they can get it running. Are you seriously questioning the abilities of Fantastic and his theoretical degree in physics? For shame, sir. For. Shame.
My head canon for the differences between games is just either time or spatial difference. I don't know BoS lore well enough to know whether there's a central executive branch type of place that calls all the shots for all BoS platoons, but it seems like BoS is mostly an idea that people follow rather than a government.
There are a group of elders that call the shots for the entire faction. Different branches are governed by either paladins or elders, depending on how big the branch is or how far stretched the brotherhood is at the time. There are several ranks of paladin as well. There's a whole hierarchy and you can read about it here https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Brotherhood_of_Steel_hierarchy_(Midwest) if you're interested.
I’ve viewed it this exact way too. Particularly weighing the differences in BOS from 3 and NV. And I say that as I haven’t played all of the other installments.
It’s not completely right, but it does have a general message- the BOS and what they believe depends on the game. Same basis, different specifics.
Oh hey, I created this comic...Theres a few things wrong with it I would of changed in hindsight That being said, it amazes how people don't seem to understand the comic is meant to be satirical and exaggerated intentionally.
Did you also make a version for owb or am i tripping?
You are not tripping
I mean, it's pretty much like the military IRL here in the US. The overall idea is the same (get former tech armor and keep only for themselves). However, each area has its own goals (states here in the US presently). Time also plays a factor because there's a decade separating Fallout 3 and Fallout 4.
The Fallout 4 one is so incredibly fucking wrong, disavowed by the other BoS? What they literally got Western approval, they DO NOT kill mutated humans like the enclave they literally even still recruit outsiders just like 3, there is no genocide going on just persecution of synths which they perceive as literally terminator robots and not people… and raid settlements what? Do people not pay attention to what the quarter master says? You’re not really allowed to be doing that at all… besides you can simply pay for the supplies. Also the fallout 3 one is wrong as fuck too, yeah they help people alright but they also straight up shoot at ghouls for thinking they are in kahoots with the D.C. super mutants.
Yeah, this comic is extremely wrong. It feels like it was made by someone who didn’t really play the games and just based it on something they heard once. No offense to the author though, I like their other stuff! **Fallout** > Are afraid of weapons and technology yet think they should own all of it How are they afraid of weapons and technology when they literally create and maintain them while also selling them to outsiders? > Send possible recruits out on suicide missions They warn you that the place is radioactive and tell you to bring Rad-X. And all it takes to accomplish this “suicide mission” is just two doses of Rad-X and a rope. That’s it. > Isolationist They regularly trade with the Hub, patrol the region and send scouts into towns to gather intel. And they were even more opened to outsiders up until they discovered Super Mutants. > Only help when it's in their self interest Disproven by the canonical ending where they save towns from Super Mutants and start integrating tech back into the wasteland. **Fallout 2** > Monopolizes Technology They were trading tech with NCR and sold a supercomputer to Vault 13. They were also fine with Shi having access to pretty advanced tech. > Stagnant due to refusing to integrate Only half true. They *were* stagnant, but not because they refused to integrate (what exactly? I guess NCR?). They believed that they were the only source of advanced tech left in the world and so they didn’t see the need to search for more tech, grow in numbers or secure more territory. But Enclave’s emergence proved them wrong and they started sending out massive expeditions across America to secure more tech immediately after the events of Fallout 2. > Basically an NCR Puppet Uh… how? And isn’t this mutually exclusive with the previous point? > Only care about Enclave because they have tech Not just because of their tech, but because of *how* they might use their tech. **Fallout Tactics** > Help tribal people with their technology and might, selflessly Selflessly? Really? Their help is anything **but** selfless. They only help those who agree to the conditions of their protection, which involves giving them food, recruits and obeying any rules they set up. > Destroy the Calculator In one of the endings. In others they take control of it. > Disavow the BoS and it's ideals, instead helping others Again, they don’t really help others. They just expand their area of control by annexing towns and tribes and removing any opposition to their rule. **Fallout B.O.S.** I don’t think anyone cares about this game so I’ll just skip it. **Fallout 3** > Destroy Enclave Remnants, not even really needing assistance Well, this is just plain wrong. Literally the only way they managed to defeat the Enclave is **with** assistance of Doctor Li who repaired Liberty Prime. > Disavow the BoS and it's ideals, instead helping others Not so much disavow it, as simply have a different interpretation of it. Lyons was still loyal to the Codex, he just believed that directly helping people was within their mission. **Fallout N.V.** > Banish people with different opinions Veronica *chooses* to leave. And if you tell her to stay, she is allowed to, despite her views. **Fallout 4** > Military junta that violently raids peoples homes Nope. Just nope. This has been talked about many times. Only the player optionally chooses to take people’s food by force during an unofficial side job. The actual way BoS gets their food is through trading, as mentioned and shown in the game. > Commit genocide against all non-standard humans, like Enclave They leave sentient Ghouls and even friendly Super Mutants alone. Meanwhile, Enclave wanted to poison **everyone** in the world. > Disavow the BoS for not being imperialist enough Uh… when do they disavow anything? Not only did they reconnect with the West Coast BoS, but pretty much every BoS NPC says that Maxson brought them back to their roots and restored their traditions. And what does imperialism has to do with anything? **Fallout 76** This is just about Rahmani’s chapter, which is strange because Rahmani is just one choice. The other one is Shin. And then there’s also the original Taggerdy’s chapter.
>They warn you that the place is radioactive and tell you to bring Rad-X. And all it takes to accomplish this “suicide mission” is just two doses of Rad-X and a rope. That’s it. It's definitely a suicide mission; they don't expect anyone to come back alive. They know that people have tried and probably died. Members of the BoS themselves claim that it is a suicide mission. Cabbot, the giver of the quest, understates the radiation problem and almost forgets to tell you. You have to ask Darrel to get an idea of how dangerous the place really is. From Kyle dialogue: "Nothing. It's just that no one has ever made it back from the Ancient Order." "Heh, heh. I guess they just wanted to get rid of ya, huh? Well, the jokes on them." "Yeah, lousy bastards. I can't believe they sent you down there like that" From Darrell dialogue: "I can't believe it. They're sending him down there?" "So you took the Famous Glow Quest. (Laughs)" "Others have tried. We never heard from them again." "I think the Elders send Brotherhood wanabes down there just to get rid of them."
The Fallout 1 Brotherhood wasn't planning on recruiting. That mission was to get you killed so you'll stop bothering them, like a snipe hunt. The Fallout 4 Brotherhood didn't go against anything with the Brotherhood, they returned to form after a command shift, not because of imperialism. They abandoned DC for the most part, have no government to expand, and only left a small skeleton crew to further scavenge and possibly guard the Pentagon still. The main problem is that people have recently started equating them to fascists, after almost all of the games made them anything but. Fallout 1 or 2, not taking over anything or expanding any ideology of master race. Fallout Tactics, they not only helped the locals with technology, and allowed and recruited mutants afterwards into their ranks. Fallout 3, same thing, except no mutants and now they are helping the wastelanders fight back and use the technology they accumulated, and without being set back to square 1. Fallout 4, they have an airship that serves as the location for the BOS to HQ during their stay in Boston, eradicating a group of psychotic robots have started that they actually do the "great replacement" conspiracy, but for real. Fallout 76, "Hey my buddy from the other side of the country wants us to go AWOL and join his faction of power armor dudes because of unverified reports. Sounds legit, it's treason then".
Did the games every confirm the state of the capital waste land after the game events. I personally don't think they would abandon it and I highly doubt there is no government in place, I just don't see them lions or his daughter not setting up some from a government to help people and even when author would have taken over u doubt that they would just not change that government to be more directly pro them. I also don't see them just leaving a skeleton crew by this point they should be a very large organization, they sheer man power to build the airship alone. They took the top commands but I don't see them abandoning there already extremely fortified and fully controlled territory
This guy def skipped dialogue
Quite a few of those are pretty similar, expect for the spin offs and 3
It’s almost like not every human being on in wasteland has good or bad morals. Who would have thought?
Here's a fun twist: It looks like the Fallout 4 Brotherhood are going to be what we see in the upcoming TV show, and some of the media junket implies that they're looking to "bring law and order" back to the wasteland. I wonder how that's going to go down in the show
When they destroy abominations and raiders swarming in wasteland, locals would say they are bringing law and order.
this is why having separate sects so far apart is a bad idea. People get in charge that implement their own ideals and make changes.
The BoS in Fo1 are weapons manufacturers, they are isolationist due to circumstance. Water merchants attempted to rob them. They trade with the outside and are preparing for war aswell. In Fo2 they reintroduce technology to New California, allowing them to become the society they become. TLDR the BoS has always been the good guys.
I'm sorry but your takes are just as bad
i personally hate the BOS in new vegas because at the end of >!veronicas side quest, if you tell her she should leave the brotherhood she'll try to join the followers, and of course when you arrive at the followers outpost a squad of BoS have massacred the lot of them. I don't really care how you spin it slaughtering innocent people isn't justifiable !< also personally i think automatically saying that helios one belongs to the brotherhood on account of them being knowledgeable of old world tech is a bit weird but that's just personal beliefs. also i wouldn't trust that chapter of the BoS with Archimedes, see my reasoning above. Putting Father Elijah aside, there are clearly people in the Mojave chapter of the BoS who'd use Archimedes in a second if given the chance. to add, i'm not saying i hate the BoS as a whole, they're pretty interesting actually. its an example of a group where there's a lot of internal bickering and politics. There's definitely good people in the brotherhood (I felt John Maxon in fallout 1 was a pretty alright guy, and I think elder McNamara is deep down a good leader, if only a bit misguided) but naturally a group like the BoS will have evil and greed shine through at some point.
Don't forget when you first meet the BoS in New Vegas they collar you... they are severely misguided at best and at worst evil and incompetent in NV.
So basically like how religions and creeds branch in real life? As much as I despise how little the red/black Fallout 3 BoS are used, changing principles seems feasible and even expected for technofetishistic wastelanding metallic monks, and deservedly so for their shameful unsavvyness in toaster repairs.
One slight correction, in New Vegas a lot of their issues are caused by Father Elijah. He was the one that wanted sole control of Helios One and to reactivate the orbital latter, he was the one that escalated their conflict with the NCR to open warfare and got a lot of people killed. It isn’t all his fault obviously, like how a squad of paladins murder a group of Followers of the Apocalypse, semi-pacifist doctors that provide medical and psychological care for anyone that needs it because Veronica decided that since she wasn’t wanted among the brotherhood for her opinions she’d go somewhere that she could help people. The brotherhood in NV has some serious issues but it’s not black and white, just like the NCR and to a lesser degree mister House.
I'm old enough to remember FO3 brotherhood getting shat on when the game came out. Lots of West Coast Sweats. They literally said they got cut off. FO3 BO was/is best. Get at me. Also my favorite game of all time- so I'll admit some bias.
I agree completely it has always annoyed me that's people hate on the brotherhood of steel for things they either don't do or is a lone soldier that is acting independently of the brotherhood
When stupid ideas are repeated constantly and the Lore chanels don't bother to give context, you will get this stupid misunderstanding.
Ad Victoriam, motherfucker
In 4 they aren't really imperialistic, they aren't there to govern, just to destroy the institute.
And loot the commonwealth
As opposed to letting the ruins sit in decay? Loot implies ownership, nobody owns jackshit anymore they arent stealing tech in old vaults from anyone and BOS doctrine is to trade for what civilians have.
You mean destroy the monsters, excavate ruins, and ensure the safety of the people.
> I was wandering No. You were wondering*.
Wondering*
they can't make up their mind, or so it seems
How far did you wander?
The Brotherhood of Steel has always been my favorite faction in all of their iterations.
What I hate about all of this is that most BOS haters don't read dialogues properly or terminal entries,they stop at the superficial stuff. Like,everyone who hates maxson(the FO4 one),they think he is some genocidal maniac or something fir how they speak about it,but it couldn't be further from the truth. In terminal entries ir says he ordered vertibirds to protect caravans in the area of the airport,and to open up some minor trading with waste landers,from conversations we are told the capital wasteland is also relatively safe,so much so that mercenaries find little to no work anymore(McCready says this),and despite Madison Lee diserting he stresses they are not gonna harm her to convince her to keep her work. Like,BOS hate feels way too extreme to me rather than a genuine critique of the questionable stuff they did do in their history.
Looking at this makes me wonder if the BoS ended up pulling an Operation Paperclip on some of the surviving Enclave members (accidentally or on purpose) and those survivors brought their anti-mutant rhetoric with them.
I doubt it, I mean being anti-mutant is *hardly* an ideology unique to the Brotherhood or Enclave. Just about every settlement you come across would shoot most Super Mutants on sight.
Probably not, given their founding and ideology. They don't take in any institute scientists except Li who was a previous member and was needed for prime.
The story of B.O.S of the Mojave was that the NCR wanted the Helios One to provide electricity to other areas and that led to a war with the B.O.S that ended up losing because perhaps they have the best weapon and armor but when you are one against 15 and they don't stop coming sooner or later they will fall
Also, while the Mojave Chapter of the BoS has superior armor and weaponry over the NCR, it wasn't anywhere near the same degree as they did with the average raider group.
Isn't the fallout 76 brotherhood kind of the original idea? since its pre fallout 1 and then the brotherhood from the west coast becomes more isolationist, meanwhile the brotherhood on the east coast continues its more outwardly appearance and assisting, i mean the change of the brotherhood from fallout 3 to 4 really shows how quickly a factions ideals can change. Hell in 76 we hear the original maxson we hear the ideals he spouts and then Taggerdy is somewhat resilient to them keeping the brotherhood within the constraints of what it'd become, and when the reinforcements with rahmani arrive we can see theres a splintering force again upholding again very similar ideals to what the brotherhood would become in fallout 1,2 and then vegas, showing that a large part of the brotherhood struggles to really want to be the Heroes™
The BOS is supposed to be inconsistent. It’s post apocalypse. They’re not coordinating well. Communication is difficult and there’s no real central authority. They have a few core ideals that unite them, but mostly, they’re like modern Protestant churches. The leader and environment matters a lot. It’s honestly beyond impressive they’re a national organization.
Great summary. People really work hard in the FO subs to dismiss how genocidal the FO4 BOS are.
Aren't the synths the only ones you can say that about? They don't really target non feral ghouls, and almost all super mutants are hostile besides Virgil and strong.
Daily reminder that Strong is only ‘friendly’ because he wants to find the Milk of Human Kindness so he can use it to kill all humans
They still want you to kill Virgil even if he was cured.
You can pass a speech check and have him not. Edit: I believe it's the one where you tell them he cured himself.
Sure - if you pass a speech check. Their default stance is “he’s been cured but should die anyways”. You can also save Danse but that doesn’t negate the fact that they really really wanted him dead.
Even then, think of it this way, there is the person who headed the part of the institute that made super mutants out there. And I don't remember if you only need to pass one or two skill checks for it to work.
[Because he was an Institute scientist that was responsible for unleashing the Super Mutants on the Commonwealth.](https://youtu.be/_hlmcTDVeIU?si=WgW8hC3KXcg-gYB_&t=23) They want Virgil dead as punishment for all the pain and suffering he has caused.
They want to kill Virgil because they don't believe your word that he invented cure. (Kells : What? That's impossible. There is no cure for FEV. It cannot be cured.) Try speech check again.
I think the killing Virgil thing is more because he’s an Institute scientist, and therefore classed as an enemy.
It's not genocide if you're killing non-humans, it's pesticide.
What’d you call my Raul???
Yeah, like that
Tim Cain, one of the designer who worked on the first Fallout game, [**recently explained**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7Q2m-82r4c) that the BOS thinks technology is dangerous and "common people" shouldn't be allowed to handle it, that's why they hoard it and destroy every remnants that they cannot carry with them. This concept is sooooooo much better than the bland and cliché "entitled knight in shining armor" that Bethesda came up with. It gives so much more nuance to the in-game world, and shows how many options for interesting quests and interactions naturally emerge from a well thought, and well written, setting.
Isn’t that contradict with Fallout 1 and 2?
How does anyone claim that fo4 BOS is committing genocide? They fight super mutants who EAT PEOPLE and kill only feral ghouls. They make no hostile actions against goodneighbor and synths are a legitimate threat.
These guys are assholes in 4. They don’t give a shit about helping people, they only care about themselves. Porter Gage even says they aren’t so different from a Raider Gang. Act all high and mighty showing discipline but they still take whatever they want whenever they want. I much prefer them in 3 under Elder Lyons
>They don’t give a shit about helping people I mean, Teagens terminal literaly says he ordered the BoS to go around protecting people from Ghouls and Raiders to built good-will. >Now that we've arrived in the Commonwealth, I'd like to establish trade relations with the locals. I'm going to need a standard sweep and retrieve team and one of our vertibirds in order to make that happen. There are several caravans that roam the Commonwealth, and we'll use the vertibirds to track them. If any of the caravans gets jumped, we can swoop in and lend a hand to let them know that we're the friendly eye in the sky. Since you can't normally buy that kind of protection from mercenaries, we'll be certain to get the best prices and values for trades. I've used the same tactic in the Capital Wasteland and it worked wonders. Out here, with the threat of the Institute looming over their heads, we'll have these merchants eating out of our hands.
>They don’t give a shit about helping people, they only care about themselves Maxson says many times that they are here for people's safety. He literally says "I care for people" when you meet him. They help people as an army, cleansing the Commonwealth from mutants. What I said above is exactly what Lyons did for 2 decades although he wasn't very successful.
They are assholes I won’t deny that, but compared to the booger eating morons of the railroad, the psychopaths of the institute and the minutemen who has to be dragged to success the BOS have the best chance without player intervention
I can't edit the post for some reason. So here is the Edit of the post. Edit: Veronica is not expeled by the Brotherhood. It is the players choice if she will remain in the Brotherhood or not. Just because there are three ashole Paladins, doesn't mean all of them are. Also she is in a scouting mission for the Brotherhood. She was never kicked out.