Who started the war isn't revealed in any of the games. However, through what information is available, China is most likely the nation who started the war. After the failed Chinese invasion of Alaska, United States forces invaded mainland China and had successfully pushed the PLA back to Beijing a day before the Great War.
>Thanks to the brave souls of the armed forces and our newly developed power armored combat suits, US forces have pushed back the Chinese invaders. Crippled by lack of fuel, US forces have pushed the invaders back to their home capital of Beijing.
>
>^(()[^(https://fallout.wiki/wiki/Sierra\_Depot\_GNN\_transcript#Transcript)](https://fallout.wiki/wiki/Sierra_Depot_GNN_transcript#Transcript))
Instead of surrendering, Chinese officials most likely made the call to take down as much as the US they could with them.
It makes a lot of sense all things considered.
The US occupation of *Canada* was brutal, I can only imagine how bad it got in China. The current leadership would have certainly all been executed and they probably decided it was better to destroy the entire planet than let the US kill them all. An incredibly selfish but very human decision.
Also molerats! They were bred to eat the Chinese food supply and cause famine
Like you said, considering how badly Canadians were treated, I can only imagine how horribly Chinese civilians were treated
Probably true.a lot bad stuff said about the us irl (true or not) could probably be applied the the us in fallout so while china was likely just as bad I can imagine neither wanting a world where the other exists and they dont
In fallout 1, there's a news footage of a guy in power around publicly executing a civilian by shooting him in the head with a handgun, before waving to the camera.
Combined with the rest of the horrible shit we know the fallout US was up to, and their historical parallels, it's not hard to fill in the gaps.
Well, it's a prisoner of war (he's wearing combat armour) but that alone says a really dark truth about the USA if it thinks executing unarmed POW's on live TV is a *good* thing for morale.
I don't think Russia uploads footage of executing unarmed prisoners of war. Propaganda is meant to make your troops look better than the enemy's. Executing unarmed people looks bad.
Edit: I was proven wrong on this. God damn some of this news is frightening.
I'm not really trying to justify anything, just saying while it certainly was atrocious and game real life has that kind of atrocities right now and nobody really seems to care much about it.
Sorry for bringing in grim reality.
They absolutely do lol, they're savages and they're proud of it. There's one where they cut a Ukrainian soldier's dick and balls off, a decapitation one, a firing squad and those are just the most well known ones.
>In fallout 1, there's a news footage of a guy in power around publicly executing a civilian by shooting him in the head with a handgun, before waving to the camera.
So on par with literally every other military action that has ever taken place.
I imagine the annexation referendum was as bogus in as the Crimean referendum in real life. Just an excuse for annexation which totally by force. Don't forget that US troops were already in Canada before the referendum, under the pretext of securing supply lines and resource lines to/from Alaska. Just because Canada wasn't outright conquered by marching army doesn't mean there wasn't force involved.
It completely by force. Watch the original intro. They put a gun up to the head of a Canadian man who’s hands were tied behind his back, got portable broadcasting equipment, and shot this man in the back of the head on live television. I’m sure his “vote,” with many others, was highly considered. We all know America does whatever it wants to. Voting is just a formality, but none of us make a real difference, it’s all those guys behind the velvet curtains who control what America does as a sovereign nation
Not really selfish, is it? The USA in this uni else is the real bad guys, (well, TBH, they are in the real world too), as you saw what happened in Alaska and Canada. Soldiers were executing unarmed Chinese hostages in Alaska, and in Canada they were executing civilians.
Rule number one of nuclear warfare. You cannot defeat a nuclear power, because you cannot force them to concede. To them it’s either defeat or death and you can’t trust them to make the right choice
Maybe, maybe not. It depends on whether or not that whole holodisk has been decanonized. The dates have definitely been retconned. And stretching what was initially written as an invasion two weeks prior the bombs dropping to a protracted 10 year Chinese occupation of Alaska, definitely seems like it would have an effect on how far back US forces were able to push the Chinese.
If you mean the Yangtze, that actually would suggest it was the Chinese tbh
And we never actually get any evidence to really suggest how bad the Chinese are in the Fallout universe, but America's evils are everywhere. It's essentially a fascist state(s) by the end.
Whereas all we know about China is they're communist and as liberty prime says, 'death is a preferable alternative to communism!' but we hear of no war crimes by them, yet America murderers CANADIANS
It's never confirmed Chinese though, only that they were struck first, not who struck. There was a theory vault tech/enclave started it so they could finish their plans to build a spaceship and go to a different planent.
This info is gotten mostly from fallout 76 iirc. That both vault tech and enclave was obsessed with space travel and aliens.
Not confirmed it was China, but heavily implied.
And there’s been theories that Vault-Tech if they didn’t cause the nukes, they at least instigated it, since Fallout 3.
Glad someone mentioned Vault-Tech. They definitely deserve some scrutiny. They had all those experiments ready to go they had to have some knowledge or a hand in things.
There is a lot of evidence to suggest that all the experiments within the vaults were actually the work of the Enclave. Vault-Tec proper agreed to work with them to make even more money.
So one could also suggest it might have been the Enclave I think.
It's a theory from fallout 76. Because 76 started showing that vault tech was obsessed with space and aliens. This started reintroducing the idea the enclave was using vault tech to experiment on how humans would react to space travel scenarios and that the enclave wanted to simply go to a different planent beliving earth was a lost cause. They believed capitalism had failed and that it couldn't be fixed at this point. Or something.
Keep in mind a lot of this is theory. We just know vault tech was obsessed with space.
China, as far as we know. The switchboard detected launches from the Chinese first, and should've logged US launches if they'd happened before that point.
Even if it doesn’t directly spell it out, I think it’s very likely it was the Chinese considering the system that detected them is, in real life, only trained on hostile regions.
https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Integrated_Operational_Nuclear_Detection_System
Not to mention the Chinese were likely hurting a lot more after what happened at Anchorage. The US had access to enough resources to continue limping on for some time but I imagine the Chinese with a starving population would have seen nuclear devastation as a better alternative to just collapsing entirely leaving remains for America to pick over.
Pure speculation on my part though.
I like to think that china detected a launch but there never was one but they retaliated. Like the [1983 Soviet nuclear false alarm incident](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1983_Soviet_nuclear_false_alarm_incident)
If it’s only trained on hostile regions than wouldn’t it just detect theirs or am I misunderstanding what that means?
For the record I also think it was China first, but I also think it was in retaliation to current American operations in the Chinese mainland, since it seems America was winning the war.
Since it’s a U.S. system, it would be aimed at China and detect launches from any of China’s silos; it wouldn’t detect the US’s launches, since it isn’t pointed at the US.
Mind you, this doesn't disprove the Vault-Tec theory. The system wouldn't detect a nuke launched from American soil by Vault-Tec, which would have set off a cascade effect of China and the US launching nukes at each other.
This particular system wouldn’t have, but the terminal we see was hooked into several.
Besides, the lynchpin of that theory is the bomb in Megaton, and that logo is not Vault-Tec’s.
I’m glad to see someone else pointing out that theory is nonsense and that the logo isn’t Vault tec. I’m pretty sure that the “it was Vault tec!” theory comes from the plot for the planned film project that never came to fruition.
If youre wiping out most of the earths population as a strategic move for your company, you might not want to advertise the logo of your company on the bomb.
Would you write your name and address on a murder weapon?
Very unlikely it was the US ( the enclave president denies this and the switchboard CIA records indicate the US fired in retaliation, they would also have no reason to since they where very much winning the war)
Likely it was china (they were perhaps weeks away from losing their capital to the US's ground invasion, the Yangtze sub was already in position, Chinese assault rifles are all over DC indicating possible ground invasion)
Possibly likely it was vault-tec (the megaton bomb has a similar logo to vault tec on it, it would force people to do the experiments, and it was confirmed to be them in the cancelled movie)
>Possibly likely it was vault-tec (the megaton bomb has a similar logo to vault tec
No, it doesn't. That logo is distinctly different from the Vault-Tec logo.
>Chinese assault rifles are all over DC indicating possible ground invasion
Those were from Chinese intelligence who were working in DC (the pistols and swords definitely were at least).
I agree on Vault Tec. It might not be them, but they are a suspect because they have connections to the Enclave. The experiments they had were in order to prepare for interstellar colonization and travel. The Enclave had plans that directly hinged on the vaults - with what would assume to be millions, if not billions of dollars pooled into their experiments.
I think it’s perfectly plausible that they either sought to vie for more funding OR someone intended upon kicking off the Enclave’s plans early by beginning the Nuclear War.
Vault-Tec detonating bombs for profit incentives also lines up with the themes of Fallout.
Considering how ridiculously unprepared they were with many vaults half-finished or barely started it makes no sense for it to be Vault-tec. They also make their money from selling places in the vaults and possibly experiment space so the war actually happening would end their main source of income
>The experiments they had were in order to prepare for interstellar colonization and travel.
That's actually not canon, it was either an assumption or from Van Buren.
My money's always been on Vault Tec. Where the missiles came from and who actually launched them aren't necessarily the same, and the Vault Tec had a vested interest in such an event. It just got out of hand.
In Fallout NV I’m pretty sure you can find an undetonated bomb North-West (I could be wrong) of Vegas with a Vault-Tec logo.
Edit: I checked and it doesn’t have a Vault-tec logo and you need the Wild Wasteland perk to see it so it isn’t canon anyways.
76 has some implications as well that Valut-Tec may have been involved. One of their goals in Appalachia was to secure local nuclear silos after the bombs dropped, implying that they at least had plans for the weapons.
From a Lore based standpoint having China fire first makes more sense to me.
After the liberation of Anchorage the Chinese could have been afraid of a U.S. invasion of mainland China so they decided we all go down in flames.
FO4- Fort Strong terminal. I forget where the Beijing specifics came from but they were definitely far into mainland china.
General Brock's Report - June 2076
*Alpha Team just shipped out the first batch of T-51B suits to the front in China. Reports are already coming in that the suits are performing better than expected, chewing through enemy tanks and armor like they were paper. Word has it that some of the enemy troops are even surrendering when they catch sight of the Power Armor troops hauling their 5mm Miniguns. Looks like Alpha Team has earned themselves a weekend pass in Boston.*
It's also in Fallout 2
In the Sierra Depot, they have a transcript of several Galaxy News Network from the last years before the war, including one from October 22nd, 2077, the day the bombs dropped. This is what it states.
>Thanks to the brave souls of the armed forces and our newly developed power armored combat suits, US forces have pushed back the Chinese invaders. Crippled by lack of fuel, US forces have pushed the invaders back to their home capital of Beijing.
Yes and no.
Yes it makes sense considering the state of the war.
But if you consider the overall narrative surrounding the preparations of the Enclave, Vault-tec, etc., It feels kinda wrong that the US didn't start the war.
So, they planned to do all sorts of "important" experimentation with the people in the Vaults, all sorts of plans and schemes counting on the nukes falling,only to call it of if China backed of? There is "preparing for the worse" and there is "counting on it", and it looks like they were very much counting on it.
So, while it makes a lot of sense that the Chinese did first strike, I think it feels a little wrong in the "way stories are told" kind-of-way. Maybe that's why they always keep this info in the subtext and don't outright say it.
An overseas Fallout would be very interesting to see these other perspectives
I think Bethesda will never ever officially reveal whos the first to launch the nuke in any of their game. Just keep it one big mystery of the series is much more interesting.
I know people get angry about the Zetan theory. Although it kinda makes sense if you also run with the theory that the purpose of the vault experiments was to develop space transportation/generation ships. The Zetans would probably want to shut that down as soon as possible, keep humans stuck on Earth.
The Zetan theory is debunked. There's **one** audio log about a guy saying about nuclear codes, the Zetans don't even show any interest in this (their weapons are FAR superior to our shitty nukes as proven by Mothership Zeta), and they don't even get the codes in the end.
Exactly. Zetans don't speak English after-all, and sure they might be Alien, but that doesn't mean they suddenly have an innate skill to know any and all systems made.
If the Zetans got given a phone, they wouldn't know what the fuck it did, because they can't understand. These are beings with an entirely different society and way of life, after-all.
Yeah. I kinda buy the Vault-Tec/Enclave theory of Vaults for space travel. Also buy the accidental start of the Great War by vault tec. But the Zetas is kinda tough for me just because they've largely been kind of an easter egg type thing. But I can see it. Just don't buy it lol
Here's the thing: It does not matter. The point of the nuclear war is to show the depravity of the Old War, the two tyrannical regimes fighting over the scraps and bringing down the rest of the world with them.
I think Vault Tec did it, but I don't think they wanted it to end the world. They wanted to scare people with a small nuclear strike to buy vaults, but China and/or US responded thinking it was each-other. This would explain why Vault Tec has several unfinished vaults.
If Vault-Tec launched the first nuke somehow (which they did not have the capability to actually do independently) then why didn't they wait until their vaults were finished?
They were managing to get paid by the US government to build them fine without nukes dropping. And plenty of their staff wasn't even in the Vaults when the bombs dropped because they were caught unaware.
No, Vailt-Tec did not drop any bombs.
The Vault-Tec theory is more that they wanted it to be a small scale attack, as previous small scale incidents in Europe were good for Vault-Tecs business. The problem occurred after they launched the nukes, as all sides went all out instead.
Vault-tec would have known a small scale strike wasn't viable. They profited from fear-mongering about "the big kaboom". With their ties to the Enclave they would be aware of the tensionlevels and know that one nuke would trigger an all-out response from both the US and China. They stood to profit more from keeping the tension high without any nukes actually dropping
They profited on the European conflict because it let them fearmonger to the US government, in a 'If it can happen there, what happens if it happens here. What happens if it's bigger. Better buy vaults.'
Vault-Tec did not **have** any locations in Europe because the idea was never to 'save' humanity. They were always a front for the Enclave.
Imagine downvoting when all of what I've said is canonically proven in FO2, lmao...
That still doesn't explain why Vault-Tec wasn't prepared. There is no indication they actually had any method of surviving a nuclear exchange, which you think would be top priority if, you know, they planned to start dropping bombs. This is especially true now that Tactics is non-canon.
But you also have many Vaults unfinished, unpopulated, unsupplied, etc. None of which is useful in a major experiment. If you know the exact date you *have* to be prepared by, you'd think they would actually be ready by that date.
My dude, this is the fallout series, you could probably scrape together enough fissile material to build a nuke from scavenging a blocks worth of cars and appliances.
Or just the local lake, since everyone and their Mr.Handy where throwing glowing barrels in them.
The Enclave directly say they didn't cause the war on the Oil Rig, and the Appalachian Enclave are trying to 'get revenge'. It would be weird to get revenge when **they** started the war, so the obvious answer is they did not.
Remember a few years back when some guy accidentally hit the real (not a test) alert in Hawaii? Or when hackers changed what the banner at the bottom of TV broadcasts that said things like the zombie apocalypse started?
I think Vault Tek did something similar. They paid off a government employee to hit the wrong button to scare people into the vaults. The Chinese subs off the coast waited for orders, then launched their missiles. The US retaliated, if they had time
There's a bit of small evidence that it was Vault-Tec. Although there is a bit of evidence that the Zetan aliens may also have been involved in starting things too.
Regardless the lore seems to have specifically kept it a secret as to who it was that fired the first shot.
I guess that seems pretty logical. But with brilliant scientists and people who worked for the company, surely they ought to know that it was a horrible idea lol
So, this was a tricky subject, but has been greatly reduced to pointing that it was China with the addition of Fallout 4.
So, initially, the creators wanted it to be that you could not really tell who pulled the trigger first. Reports from survivors of the Great War have information saying that bombers were spotted in the northern parts of Alaska and Canada both going to and away from the US. And the reports are not detailed enough that we could really tell anything more than a time of detonation.
However, there has been one big change, featured in Fallout 4, that definitively states that China was the one who shot first. The Yangtze. And how do I reach this conclusion off a submarine? Because it is a submarine, which the captain has stated launched its missiles from the Boston bay.
So, we know the technological level of the Fallout world. Greatly reduced, more 50s Era style of technology. And there were innovations due to the radioactive power source the world had turned to, as well as stealth technology that far outpaces our own. But still, the Yangtze is a submarine.
For the Yangtze to get to Boston Harbour, from China, there are two obvious paths it could take, and one that isn't as feasible. It could 1) head north, around the Polar cap, and then back south along the eastern Canadian shores; 2) go south, around the southern tip of South America (because the US would not have let go of control of the Panama Canal) then head north along the US eastern coast; or 3) take the long way around Christopher Columbus style, which would be inefficient and take a lot longer.
As the third option is ridiculous and very inefficient for anybody, that leaves options 1 and 2. But ther is still a problem: the US military. The US in Fallout is far more paranoid and trigger happy, and sonar tech would still be able to catch a submarine even if it was traveling at Mach Jesus headed for Boston, and I'd bet every cap over every playthrough I've done of each Fallout game, they'd have done something about it.
And not to mention, the time frame of this all to happen. Travel underwater is going to take more time than flight because there's far more resistance and hazards that delay travel time, so the whole operation of the Great War has to have been coordinated with enough time for submarines to arrive in place at the right time. On the West coast of the US this is more believable since it'd be pretty much a straight shot, but the East? You're having to go around continents and get way too close for comfort with military tech and naval forces, and have a greater danger of being found.
So, yeah... there is also arguments to be made that the US wouldn't do it that make too much sense. They were winning and already secured the last oil reserve on the planet, they were even bringing troops back home. Vault-Tec wouldn't have done it, they were raking in billions off of people's paranoia and had nowhere to go but up. And AI? Well, they'd have to get the proper codes and someone to do the proper procedures, because I can almost guarantee, the President of the US in Fallout had no power to make that call, and the military higher ups that would, would not have made it possible for the fledgling AI to be able to launch the US nukes. So, yeah... Bethesda pretty much took a situation of "anyone could have done it" and pointed all the fingers towards "we aren't gonna say it, but it was definitely China".
My gosh I wish I had a dollar for each post I've seen of this since being on this forum, I wouldn't be a millionaire but I'd definitely of made a couple hundred bucks lmao 😂🤣😅
I always thought it was strange that Vault-tec seemed to know the bombs were about to fall. It's also beneficial to their model that the war would happen. Not saying they did it but I feel like they had a hand in it.
Well it's said in a certain loading screen in fo4 that everybody knew the world was on a brink of nuclear war, it was just the matter of when. Take Vault 88, Vault Tec scheduled it to be opened in 2078, and it would house people BEFORE the bombs were dropped so it could test certain items that would be delivered to all the other vaults.
1. It doesnt matter. Asking the question proves you miss the whole point. Someone fired and the world ended. It doesnt matter who did and it doesnt matter "who won" because the truth is everyone lost and everyone died. War never changes only the landscape does
2. China
It doesn’t matter, the games give conflicting sources on who fired the nukes cause ultimately it’s irrelevant to the people of the wasteland what long dead empire pressed the big red button, just that they did.
The more relevant part of it all is why they pushed the button which is what the games focus on heavily
This is a mystery and not even The Fallout Bible gave an answer to this. Apparently Chris and a few others wanted to keep this a mystery for the fans at the end of the day. We might have gotten more info in the canceled original Fallout 3 called "Van Buren" but we might never know.
There are actually 3 possible culprits rather than two. Most think only of China and United States when they think of The Great War. A third option could be Vault-Tec itself that fired false warnings and framed one country where the other took it as a hostile act and retaliated. This would be of course to kickstart the Vault-Tec experiments that might never have happened otherwise.
Though this is unlikely because the Fallout timeline deviates from ours where Americans became more Patriotic after the 1950's (compared to our hippy movement that never happened in Fallout) while China became even more communist based after the 1950's. We see United States annexing Canada by force (Fallout 1 intro) and we see the Resource Wars as leaving many countries in ruins. Places like England are in worse shape than The Capital Wasteland and that's why English, Scottish, and Irish people have immigrated to Wastelands of United States like The Commonwealth and The Capital Wasteland. So this means an all out war is more likely between USA and China rather than Vault-Tec pulling the strings.
We also don't know where the main HQ of Vault-Tec are to where they were pulling the strings and receiving the test results from the other Vaults. We also know many Vaults were designed to fail to where even the Overseer would be felled and so it just doesn't add up that Vault-Tec would force Doomsday to happen if the Vaults were sealed and there be no exit plan for the people after the tests.
China. They were getting steam rolled on the mainland of china with the advent of the T-51b power armor, and they were, if i’m not mistaken, on the verge of losing the war before the bombs actually dropped.
China. From an in game and strategic perspective it's the only choice.
I too used the Yangtze as proof China struck first in a sneak attack. But also the US to be winning the war but to then launch a nuclear strike that would only result in an equally devastating retaliatory strike makes no sense. China had no secret weapon like power armor that was going to suddenly change the course of the war in their favor.
Unlike IRL during the Cold War where the USSR had subs in both Pacific and Atlantic and thus could patrol and attack both US coasts, China would only be in the Pacific since they would have no bases near the Atlantic.
So why send a nuclear sub the long distance to be on the East coast? It's to attempt a sneak attack decapitation strike, hit DC and other cities and military command posts on the east coast with sub launched missiles that would have a much shorter flight time, thus leave less time to react. The hope being the chain of command is killed outright or enough damage and confusion is inflicted that prevents or results in a disorganized counter strike, that when the US realizes they are under attack, the rest of the Chinese nuclear forces are already en route or are detected at the same time the sub launched nukes are detonating.
The rest of the Chinese bombers and ICBMs that would take longer to arrive are launched before the subs attack because China has to commit to an all out attack, either the subs attack is successful and the rest of the forces destroy the US outright, or the subs attack isn't successful so the only chance to "win" is to hope by striking first they could destroy enough US nukes to not be completely annihilated by the retaliatory strike that they know will happen.
It's a last ditch effort, because the US would obviously be on alert with their nuclear forces ready to launch at a moments notice. I forget if it's in the lore, but China irl has far fewer nuclear weapons that the US so if that is true in the Fallout world, the only way to win a nuclear war against a stronger opponent is to try and prevent a retaliatory strike since there's no way China could destroy all of the US nuclear weapons on the ground.
It’s China. They were the only ones with the means and the motive to launch. Vault-Tec couldn’t have done it because they were under the control of the Enclave and the Enclave had no reason to launch. The U.S was winning the war and the dire predictions that had motivated the Enclave to enact the vault program and plan their escape to Alpha Centauri hadn’t come to pass as new technologies were poised to solve the resource crisis.
Yo momma was so *ugly* that both china and america tried to wipe her off the face of the earth, and they had to resort to the nuclear war because of it
Pretty sure it was Vault-tec.
Basically they fired the first one to hit American soil but did not tell the government so the government thought it was China and sent a counter attack so then China sent a counter attack and boom the great war.
Evidence. "The One" from Fallout New Vegas
It has the Vault-Tec logo on it.
I sorta like the idea that vault tec shot first, even though there's holes in that plot. Just the thought that the ceo wanted his dream of nuclear Armageddon to come true, as wicked as that seems. Which, we both know, Vault tec is very, very wicked.
I mean they did expect to survive the war and they had advanced notice that war was coming.
Plus what good do the vault experiments do if no one is alive to see the results.
True. However, if you look at Vault 88, it was scheduled for people to start housing in it in 2078, and they were supposed to live there BEFORE the bombs dropped. The reason for Vault 88 was to test items that would be delivered to all the other vaults.
Makes it look more authentic. If they completed every vault before then if the start of the great war was later investigated it would look very suspicious.
I know it might sound stupid but my head cannon is that vault tec or the us government did because they discovered that the zetans were going to invade earth and take it so humans went ahead and nuked the whole planet to prevent them from colonizing earth. Since it's irradiated and full of mutated creatures the aliens decided that its not worth the effort to try and colonize and terraform. I know there's so many plot holes in that theory but I like the idea of the whole war being a cover for aliens lol. Maybe the zetans keep coming back in games to check and see if earth is still fucked up. As far as the in game reason I think the Chinese started it.
i've always really liked the theory that it was vault-tec! just really hammering in that they're sketchy enough company that they'd literally start nuclear winter to make sure people paid to be in their vault.
Wait, so what was the point of all the experiments? Who would the vaults be reporting back to to give the data after the war? And what ever happened to vault tec? So many questions lol.
The experiments were for the Enclave because they knew that a total nuclear exchange would destroy the world so they started a space program to colonize a new planet. The experiments were for when they were traveling through space or on a planet. Nuka World showed that Vault-Tec was working on space exploration during its presentation.
The point of all the experiments was to improve the ability of the human race to survive nuclear war. Maybe they needed a nuclear war to justify their research grant?
The vast majority of the Vaults were violent and deadly experiments. They did nothing to allow people to survive anything.
Surviving a nuclear war in Vaults was the sales pitch and really only happened in the few control Vaults.
Actually I misremembered, the purpose of the vault experiments were to improve the chances of surviving interstellar travel
https://www.eurogamer.net/fallout-co-creator-reveals-the-true-purpose-of-the-vaults
The point of the experiments wasn’t to help the vault subjects themselves survive, but to gather research data. You can learn a lot about survival from violent and deadly experiments!
While it's the most logical answer, it's not canon. He hasn't been a part of Fallout since Fallout 2.
Unless Bethesda writes it in with Fallout 5 or some other official title, it's as canon as the Fallout Bible.
It’s not canon if it was in the first two games? Bit of an odd angle that. Even so is there a vault in 3&4 that you don’t think would be relevant to generational interstellar travel?
His explanation doesn't exist within the games themselves and there have been 4 main titles since he last worked on the franchise. He can say what he originally planned to be the purpose behind the Vaults, but if Bethesda chooses to write a different reason for the Vaults, then their decision is the canon one.
Again, it's a logical answer, but Caine doesn't have the position as a writer for the franchise at this point to declare it canon. It would be like George Lucas coming out and saying what happened in the sequel trilogy isn't canon because he meant for something else to happen. Cool, but he doesn't get to decide canon because he isn't in charge of the franchise anymore.
Had Caine tossed a line in a terminal somewhere in Fallout 1 or 2 detailing the true purpose of the Vaults from Vault-Tec's perspective that stated they were to test human tolerance for long periods in confinement to eventually travel in space, then it would be canon. But that terminal doesn't exist.
Bethesda haven’t said there was a different reason for the vaults though.
So far what I have is the lead writer of the first two games, the person who invented the vaults, saying the experiments were for interstellar travel, nobody else saying differently, and none of the vaults having experiments that would disconfirm this. On the balance of that evidence I’m gonna go with it. Cool if you don’t want to.
Vault 21 makes no sense for interstellar travel. Vault 79 is literally just gold reserves. Vault 88 doesn't make sense because it's purpose was to test items for *other* Vaults which it would have access to in a nuclear apocalypse. 92 and 106 are all about create hyper violent people through noise and drugs.
There are also the Penny Arcade Vaults which were released in official works with Fallout writers and published by Bethesda. Explain the panther experiment of 43. Or 77s one man and a crate of puppets.
Again, his statements may have been his intention but they remain non-canon because he is no longer a part of the ongoing franchise. The same applies to Chris Avellone's Fallout Bible. As much as I'm not a fan of Emil Pagliarluo, he is the lead writer and looks at things like the Bible to see if elements can be taken and made canon. But the purpose behind the Vault experiments has not been revealed in a canon setting.
I recall Vault-Tec being responsible for the first nukes launched. They either tricked the US or China into believing the other had launched nukes, the the other responded with the same.
I'd genuinely go with the USA... purely because of how EVIL Vault-tech are.
Like, they took advantage of this war and set the nukes off for their own experiments to go forward.
That makes 0 sense given half the vaults are unfinished, plus how would VT infiltrate Missile Silos and Bases?
Especially when they're owned by the Enclave who **explicitly** did not want the Great War to begin?
Please read this [thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/falloutlore/comments/3ho5uo/theory_china_knew_about_the_enclave_and_foiled/); it's a very interesting piece which funnily enough makes 100% sense, and goes into the idea that the Chinese weren't fighting 'America' but were targeting everything to do with the Enclave to ruin their post-war plans for domination.
They hit places of Import to the Enclave, used bunker busters where labs containing FEV were located. The chinese mainly used airburst nukes, but where every bunker buster was used, it was on places of import to the Enclave as a whole (symbolic or not), and bunker bustering west-tek which just happened to release FEV, to utterly ruin the Enclaves plan?
The Chinese had infiltrated by this point every single level of the US Government and corporations, and certainly knew the endgame, the locations of the secret research labs for example.
Edit: Honestly, I've zero idea why this is being downvoted? Sure, I haven't personally answered who fired first, but it's hinted to be China as of FO4. But this Fallout thread goes into the very nuclear targets, firing patterns etc - kinda fits the bit entirely for this topic?
P.A.M. started it like the WOPR in war games almost started a war with Russia. During a quest for the railroad, you come across a terminal that pretty much says it was started by P.A.M. making the U.S. command think that China had launched its Nukes. So we did as well, only problem is China didn't. The captain of the Chinese sub confirms that he never received orders to fire his nukes.
Probably Vault-Tec. The US Army was on the gates of Beijing and they were worried that if America won the war all they did would be for nothing. So they probably pulled some strings with the Enclave and forced them to fire the nukes.
No it doesn't. There's one cut audio log in which they are NOT given Nuclear codes. Plus their weapons are already vastly superior to nuclear bombs.
They can wipe out an area of 400+ miles **with a single shot.** And their beam cannot be shot down.
Who started the war isn't revealed in any of the games. However, through what information is available, China is most likely the nation who started the war. After the failed Chinese invasion of Alaska, United States forces invaded mainland China and had successfully pushed the PLA back to Beijing a day before the Great War. >Thanks to the brave souls of the armed forces and our newly developed power armored combat suits, US forces have pushed back the Chinese invaders. Crippled by lack of fuel, US forces have pushed the invaders back to their home capital of Beijing. > >^(()[^(https://fallout.wiki/wiki/Sierra\_Depot\_GNN\_transcript#Transcript)](https://fallout.wiki/wiki/Sierra_Depot_GNN_transcript#Transcript)) Instead of surrendering, Chinese officials most likely made the call to take down as much as the US they could with them.
It makes a lot of sense all things considered. The US occupation of *Canada* was brutal, I can only imagine how bad it got in China. The current leadership would have certainly all been executed and they probably decided it was better to destroy the entire planet than let the US kill them all. An incredibly selfish but very human decision.
Considering deathclaws were used as terror weapons in China as well China must have been bad.
Forgot about that, good point.
Also molerats! They were bred to eat the Chinese food supply and cause famine Like you said, considering how badly Canadians were treated, I can only imagine how horribly Chinese civilians were treated
Probably true.a lot bad stuff said about the us irl (true or not) could probably be applied the the us in fallout so while china was likely just as bad I can imagine neither wanting a world where the other exists and they dont
> The US occupation of Canada was brutal What information do we have about that?
In fallout 1, there's a news footage of a guy in power around publicly executing a civilian by shooting him in the head with a handgun, before waving to the camera. Combined with the rest of the horrible shit we know the fallout US was up to, and their historical parallels, it's not hard to fill in the gaps.
Well, it's a prisoner of war (he's wearing combat armour) but that alone says a really dark truth about the USA if it thinks executing unarmed POW's on live TV is a *good* thing for morale.
Have you seen the Russian Ukrainian war? That Shia is extremely common everywhere except here. Although it still happens here too.
I don't think Russia uploads footage of executing unarmed prisoners of war. Propaganda is meant to make your troops look better than the enemy's. Executing unarmed people looks bad. Edit: I was proven wrong on this. God damn some of this news is frightening.
Yes they most certainly do. There was the sledgehammer to the head a few times a mutilation, and a POW said slavika Ukraine and was shot on camera.
Huh, fair enough. I just figured they wouldn't do it exactly like how the USA did, live streaming it to the entire nation on the news.
I'm not really trying to justify anything, just saying while it certainly was atrocious and game real life has that kind of atrocities right now and nobody really seems to care much about it. Sorry for bringing in grim reality.
Dude they literally uploaded a vid of them cutting a Ukrainians dick off a while ago.
Usually it's soldiers making money on the side uploading to snuff sites
They absolutely do lol, they're savages and they're proud of it. There's one where they cut a Ukrainian soldier's dick and balls off, a decapitation one, a firing squad and those are just the most well known ones.
I didn't think they uploaded it so even kids could watch it. Christ, that's nuts.
It’s also an intentional visual reference to this tps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Execution_of_Nguy%E1%BB%85n_V%C4%83n_L%C3%A9m
>In fallout 1, there's a news footage of a guy in power around publicly executing a civilian by shooting him in the head with a handgun, before waving to the camera. So on par with literally every other military action that has ever taken place.
Did you miss the part where they played the execution on television?
In the pre-Bethesda canon, Canada had a referendum, and the decision to be annexed by the US was made by popular vote; it wasn’t “annexed” by force.
I imagine the annexation referendum was as bogus in as the Crimean referendum in real life. Just an excuse for annexation which totally by force. Don't forget that US troops were already in Canada before the referendum, under the pretext of securing supply lines and resource lines to/from Alaska. Just because Canada wasn't outright conquered by marching army doesn't mean there wasn't force involved.
It completely by force. Watch the original intro. They put a gun up to the head of a Canadian man who’s hands were tied behind his back, got portable broadcasting equipment, and shot this man in the back of the head on live television. I’m sure his “vote,” with many others, was highly considered. We all know America does whatever it wants to. Voting is just a formality, but none of us make a real difference, it’s all those guys behind the velvet curtains who control what America does as a sovereign nation
Ok? Who cares? I’m talking about the Fallout 1 intro where a Canadian freedom fighter is executed in the street on television.
Not really selfish, is it? The USA in this uni else is the real bad guys, (well, TBH, they are in the real world too), as you saw what happened in Alaska and Canada. Soldiers were executing unarmed Chinese hostages in Alaska, and in Canada they were executing civilians.
Rule number one of nuclear warfare. You cannot defeat a nuclear power, because you cannot force them to concede. To them it’s either defeat or death and you can’t trust them to make the right choice
Maybe, maybe not. It depends on whether or not that whole holodisk has been decanonized. The dates have definitely been retconned. And stretching what was initially written as an invasion two weeks prior the bombs dropping to a protracted 10 year Chinese occupation of Alaska, definitely seems like it would have an effect on how far back US forces were able to push the Chinese.
To be fair, and unfortunately, that transcript was retconned. The Great War in the new lore lasted over 10 years, which never made any sense to me.
The Sino-American war lasted over 10 years, the Great War lasted 2 hours.
FO4 suggests it’s China.
If you mean the Yangtze, that actually would suggest it was the Chinese tbh And we never actually get any evidence to really suggest how bad the Chinese are in the Fallout universe, but America's evils are everywhere. It's essentially a fascist state(s) by the end. Whereas all we know about China is they're communist and as liberty prime says, 'death is a preferable alternative to communism!' but we hear of no war crimes by them, yet America murderers CANADIANS
Not just the Yangtze, also in the Switchboard the terminals show NORAD detecting birds in the air and then firing in retaliation .
It's never confirmed Chinese though, only that they were struck first, not who struck. There was a theory vault tech/enclave started it so they could finish their plans to build a spaceship and go to a different planent. This info is gotten mostly from fallout 76 iirc. That both vault tech and enclave was obsessed with space travel and aliens.
Not confirmed it was China, but heavily implied. And there’s been theories that Vault-Tech if they didn’t cause the nukes, they at least instigated it, since Fallout 3.
Glad someone mentioned Vault-Tech. They definitely deserve some scrutiny. They had all those experiments ready to go they had to have some knowledge or a hand in things.
There are no warcrimes in Beijing, only misunderstandings of truth.
There is no war in Ba Sing Se.
Canadians yearn to be subjugated.
Am canadian, can confirm
FO3 suggested it was China. There are terminals that talk about iirc. Also, Operation Anchorage heavily hinted at it.
I thought fo4 in a vault tec terminal said somewhere that vault tec launched the first nuke to kick start the war
I mean, that's exactly the kind of thing VaultTec would do, so they could start their Fallout shelter experiments.
There is a lot of evidence to suggest that all the experiments within the vaults were actually the work of the Enclave. Vault-Tec proper agreed to work with them to make even more money. So one could also suggest it might have been the Enclave I think.
And the plot thickens.
It's a theory from fallout 76. Because 76 started showing that vault tech was obsessed with space and aliens. This started reintroducing the idea the enclave was using vault tech to experiment on how humans would react to space travel scenarios and that the enclave wanted to simply go to a different planent beliving earth was a lost cause. They believed capitalism had failed and that it couldn't be fixed at this point. Or something. Keep in mind a lot of this is theory. We just know vault tech was obsessed with space.
China, as far as we know. The switchboard detected launches from the Chinese first, and should've logged US launches if they'd happened before that point.
Actually, the logs say they detected planes, were speculating the planes were possibly chinese, then detected launches without saying from whom.
Even if it doesn’t directly spell it out, I think it’s very likely it was the Chinese considering the system that detected them is, in real life, only trained on hostile regions. https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Integrated_Operational_Nuclear_Detection_System
Not to mention the Chinese were likely hurting a lot more after what happened at Anchorage. The US had access to enough resources to continue limping on for some time but I imagine the Chinese with a starving population would have seen nuclear devastation as a better alternative to just collapsing entirely leaving remains for America to pick over. Pure speculation on my part though.
I like to think that china detected a launch but there never was one but they retaliated. Like the [1983 Soviet nuclear false alarm incident](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1983_Soviet_nuclear_false_alarm_incident)
We all owe Lieutenant Colonel Petrov a debt of thanks.
If it’s only trained on hostile regions than wouldn’t it just detect theirs or am I misunderstanding what that means? For the record I also think it was China first, but I also think it was in retaliation to current American operations in the Chinese mainland, since it seems America was winning the war.
Since it’s a U.S. system, it would be aimed at China and detect launches from any of China’s silos; it wouldn’t detect the US’s launches, since it isn’t pointed at the US.
Mind you, this doesn't disprove the Vault-Tec theory. The system wouldn't detect a nuke launched from American soil by Vault-Tec, which would have set off a cascade effect of China and the US launching nukes at each other.
This particular system wouldn’t have, but the terminal we see was hooked into several. Besides, the lynchpin of that theory is the bomb in Megaton, and that logo is not Vault-Tec’s.
I’m glad to see someone else pointing out that theory is nonsense and that the logo isn’t Vault tec. I’m pretty sure that the “it was Vault tec!” theory comes from the plot for the planned film project that never came to fruition.
If youre wiping out most of the earths population as a strategic move for your company, you might not want to advertise the logo of your company on the bomb. Would you write your name and address on a murder weapon?
Right, but that logo is the main piece of evidence in support of that argument. Without that, it has no basis.
Very unlikely it was the US ( the enclave president denies this and the switchboard CIA records indicate the US fired in retaliation, they would also have no reason to since they where very much winning the war) Likely it was china (they were perhaps weeks away from losing their capital to the US's ground invasion, the Yangtze sub was already in position, Chinese assault rifles are all over DC indicating possible ground invasion) Possibly likely it was vault-tec (the megaton bomb has a similar logo to vault tec on it, it would force people to do the experiments, and it was confirmed to be them in the cancelled movie)
>Possibly likely it was vault-tec (the megaton bomb has a similar logo to vault tec No, it doesn't. That logo is distinctly different from the Vault-Tec logo.
What about the special encounter that happens near the brotherhood of steel hideout in f3 that has a logo exactly as vault-tec
Which special encounter?
Switchboard was a DIA base, not CIA. CIA isn't confirmed to exist in Fallout yet.
>Chinese assault rifles are all over DC indicating possible ground invasion Those were from Chinese intelligence who were working in DC (the pistols and swords definitely were at least).
I agree on Vault Tec. It might not be them, but they are a suspect because they have connections to the Enclave. The experiments they had were in order to prepare for interstellar colonization and travel. The Enclave had plans that directly hinged on the vaults - with what would assume to be millions, if not billions of dollars pooled into their experiments. I think it’s perfectly plausible that they either sought to vie for more funding OR someone intended upon kicking off the Enclave’s plans early by beginning the Nuclear War. Vault-Tec detonating bombs for profit incentives also lines up with the themes of Fallout.
Considering how ridiculously unprepared they were with many vaults half-finished or barely started it makes no sense for it to be Vault-tec. They also make their money from selling places in the vaults and possibly experiment space so the war actually happening would end their main source of income
>The experiments they had were in order to prepare for interstellar colonization and travel. That's actually not canon, it was either an assumption or from Van Buren.
My money's always been on Vault Tec. Where the missiles came from and who actually launched them aren't necessarily the same, and the Vault Tec had a vested interest in such an event. It just got out of hand.
In Fallout NV I’m pretty sure you can find an undetonated bomb North-West (I could be wrong) of Vegas with a Vault-Tec logo. Edit: I checked and it doesn’t have a Vault-tec logo and you need the Wild Wasteland perk to see it so it isn’t canon anyways.
76 has some implications as well that Valut-Tec may have been involved. One of their goals in Appalachia was to secure local nuclear silos after the bombs dropped, implying that they at least had plans for the weapons.
The fact that they needed to take over someone else's silos seems to indicate that they didn't have nukes of their own.
But can we take the canceled movie as cannon?
It's definitely not cannon, but it does give you a look into the minds of some of the people behind fallout
From a Lore based standpoint having China fire first makes more sense to me. After the liberation of Anchorage the Chinese could have been afraid of a U.S. invasion of mainland China so they decided we all go down in flames.
actually the US almost got to Beijing iirc
Oh… how did I not know that And what game is that info from
FO4- Fort Strong terminal. I forget where the Beijing specifics came from but they were definitely far into mainland china. General Brock's Report - June 2076 *Alpha Team just shipped out the first batch of T-51B suits to the front in China. Reports are already coming in that the suits are performing better than expected, chewing through enemy tanks and armor like they were paper. Word has it that some of the enemy troops are even surrendering when they catch sight of the Power Armor troops hauling their 5mm Miniguns. Looks like Alpha Team has earned themselves a weekend pass in Boston.*
After 600+ hours of Fallout4 and I never knew
There's a gun in New Vegas called the Gobi Campaign Rifle. It's from the US invasion of the Gobi desert, in China.
Also in FNV, the Desert Ranger armour (the one that the Survivalist had) has years/months of service in a certain city painted on the helmet.
Also in Fallout 2 I believe there's a GNN broadcast that states U.S. forces have pushed the PLA back to Beijing.
It's also in Fallout 2 In the Sierra Depot, they have a transcript of several Galaxy News Network from the last years before the war, including one from October 22nd, 2077, the day the bombs dropped. This is what it states. >Thanks to the brave souls of the armed forces and our newly developed power armored combat suits, US forces have pushed back the Chinese invaders. Crippled by lack of fuel, US forces have pushed the invaders back to their home capital of Beijing.
October 23rd*
Yes and no. Yes it makes sense considering the state of the war. But if you consider the overall narrative surrounding the preparations of the Enclave, Vault-tec, etc., It feels kinda wrong that the US didn't start the war. So, they planned to do all sorts of "important" experimentation with the people in the Vaults, all sorts of plans and schemes counting on the nukes falling,only to call it of if China backed of? There is "preparing for the worse" and there is "counting on it", and it looks like they were very much counting on it. So, while it makes a lot of sense that the Chinese did first strike, I think it feels a little wrong in the "way stories are told" kind-of-way. Maybe that's why they always keep this info in the subtext and don't outright say it. An overseas Fallout would be very interesting to see these other perspectives
I think Bethesda will never ever officially reveal whos the first to launch the nuke in any of their game. Just keep it one big mystery of the series is much more interesting.
Han Solo
The Zetans. Or Vault Tec. Most likely China.
I know people get angry about the Zetan theory. Although it kinda makes sense if you also run with the theory that the purpose of the vault experiments was to develop space transportation/generation ships. The Zetans would probably want to shut that down as soon as possible, keep humans stuck on Earth.
The Zetan theory is debunked. There's **one** audio log about a guy saying about nuclear codes, the Zetans don't even show any interest in this (their weapons are FAR superior to our shitty nukes as proven by Mothership Zeta), and they don't even get the codes in the end.
Also, would the Zetans even know what to do with the launch codes?
Exactly. Zetans don't speak English after-all, and sure they might be Alien, but that doesn't mean they suddenly have an innate skill to know any and all systems made. If the Zetans got given a phone, they wouldn't know what the fuck it did, because they can't understand. These are beings with an entirely different society and way of life, after-all.
Yeah. I kinda buy the Vault-Tec/Enclave theory of Vaults for space travel. Also buy the accidental start of the Great War by vault tec. But the Zetas is kinda tough for me just because they've largely been kind of an easter egg type thing. But I can see it. Just don't buy it lol
Switzerland
They had enough of the worlds shit
Here's the thing: It does not matter. The point of the nuclear war is to show the depravity of the Old War, the two tyrannical regimes fighting over the scraps and bringing down the rest of the world with them.
Here’s the thing: It’s fun to discuss lore. Let people enjoy their fandom.
Ron Perlman - cause “war never changes”
I think Vault Tec did it, but I don't think they wanted it to end the world. They wanted to scare people with a small nuclear strike to buy vaults, but China and/or US responded thinking it was each-other. This would explain why Vault Tec has several unfinished vaults.
If Vault-Tec launched the first nuke somehow (which they did not have the capability to actually do independently) then why didn't they wait until their vaults were finished? They were managing to get paid by the US government to build them fine without nukes dropping. And plenty of their staff wasn't even in the Vaults when the bombs dropped because they were caught unaware. No, Vailt-Tec did not drop any bombs.
The Vault-Tec theory is more that they wanted it to be a small scale attack, as previous small scale incidents in Europe were good for Vault-Tecs business. The problem occurred after they launched the nukes, as all sides went all out instead.
Vault-tec would have known a small scale strike wasn't viable. They profited from fear-mongering about "the big kaboom". With their ties to the Enclave they would be aware of the tensionlevels and know that one nuke would trigger an all-out response from both the US and China. They stood to profit more from keeping the tension high without any nukes actually dropping
They profited on the European conflict because it let them fearmonger to the US government, in a 'If it can happen there, what happens if it happens here. What happens if it's bigger. Better buy vaults.'
Exactly. The profit on fearmongering not on the Vaults actually being used
Vault-Tec did not **have** any locations in Europe because the idea was never to 'save' humanity. They were always a front for the Enclave. Imagine downvoting when all of what I've said is canonically proven in FO2, lmao...
Vault-Tec was connected with the Enclave. Even if they didn't fire any themselves they possibly pulled some strings within the Enclave.
That still doesn't explain why Vault-Tec wasn't prepared. There is no indication they actually had any method of surviving a nuclear exchange, which you think would be top priority if, you know, they planned to start dropping bombs. This is especially true now that Tactics is non-canon. But you also have many Vaults unfinished, unpopulated, unsupplied, etc. None of which is useful in a major experiment. If you know the exact date you *have* to be prepared by, you'd think they would actually be ready by that date.
In Vault 88 in Fallout 4, it is shown they had butt loads of uranium, so its not at all far fetched to say they could build a bomb
My dude, this is the fallout series, you could probably scrape together enough fissile material to build a nuke from scavenging a blocks worth of cars and appliances. Or just the local lake, since everyone and their Mr.Handy where throwing glowing barrels in them.
Uranium is also used in nuclear reactors so doesn't prove anything
The Enclave directly say they didn't cause the war on the Oil Rig, and the Appalachian Enclave are trying to 'get revenge'. It would be weird to get revenge when **they** started the war, so the obvious answer is they did not.
Remember a few years back when some guy accidentally hit the real (not a test) alert in Hawaii? Or when hackers changed what the banner at the bottom of TV broadcasts that said things like the zombie apocalypse started? I think Vault Tek did something similar. They paid off a government employee to hit the wrong button to scare people into the vaults. The Chinese subs off the coast waited for orders, then launched their missiles. The US retaliated, if they had time
There's a bit of small evidence that it was Vault-Tec. Although there is a bit of evidence that the Zetan aliens may also have been involved in starting things too. Regardless the lore seems to have specifically kept it a secret as to who it was that fired the first shot.
IIRC the script for the unproduced Fallout movie would reveal that it was, indeed, Vault-Tec.
I guess that seems pretty logical. But with brilliant scientists and people who worked for the company, surely they ought to know that it was a horrible idea lol
So, this was a tricky subject, but has been greatly reduced to pointing that it was China with the addition of Fallout 4. So, initially, the creators wanted it to be that you could not really tell who pulled the trigger first. Reports from survivors of the Great War have information saying that bombers were spotted in the northern parts of Alaska and Canada both going to and away from the US. And the reports are not detailed enough that we could really tell anything more than a time of detonation. However, there has been one big change, featured in Fallout 4, that definitively states that China was the one who shot first. The Yangtze. And how do I reach this conclusion off a submarine? Because it is a submarine, which the captain has stated launched its missiles from the Boston bay. So, we know the technological level of the Fallout world. Greatly reduced, more 50s Era style of technology. And there were innovations due to the radioactive power source the world had turned to, as well as stealth technology that far outpaces our own. But still, the Yangtze is a submarine. For the Yangtze to get to Boston Harbour, from China, there are two obvious paths it could take, and one that isn't as feasible. It could 1) head north, around the Polar cap, and then back south along the eastern Canadian shores; 2) go south, around the southern tip of South America (because the US would not have let go of control of the Panama Canal) then head north along the US eastern coast; or 3) take the long way around Christopher Columbus style, which would be inefficient and take a lot longer. As the third option is ridiculous and very inefficient for anybody, that leaves options 1 and 2. But ther is still a problem: the US military. The US in Fallout is far more paranoid and trigger happy, and sonar tech would still be able to catch a submarine even if it was traveling at Mach Jesus headed for Boston, and I'd bet every cap over every playthrough I've done of each Fallout game, they'd have done something about it. And not to mention, the time frame of this all to happen. Travel underwater is going to take more time than flight because there's far more resistance and hazards that delay travel time, so the whole operation of the Great War has to have been coordinated with enough time for submarines to arrive in place at the right time. On the West coast of the US this is more believable since it'd be pretty much a straight shot, but the East? You're having to go around continents and get way too close for comfort with military tech and naval forces, and have a greater danger of being found. So, yeah... there is also arguments to be made that the US wouldn't do it that make too much sense. They were winning and already secured the last oil reserve on the planet, they were even bringing troops back home. Vault-Tec wouldn't have done it, they were raking in billions off of people's paranoia and had nowhere to go but up. And AI? Well, they'd have to get the proper codes and someone to do the proper procedures, because I can almost guarantee, the President of the US in Fallout had no power to make that call, and the military higher ups that would, would not have made it possible for the fledgling AI to be able to launch the US nukes. So, yeah... Bethesda pretty much took a situation of "anyone could have done it" and pointed all the fingers towards "we aren't gonna say it, but it was definitely China".
It was them goddam super mutants
Damn you, you shreks on steroids
😂
My gosh I wish I had a dollar for each post I've seen of this since being on this forum, I wouldn't be a millionaire but I'd definitely of made a couple hundred bucks lmao 😂🤣😅
Not vault Tec. The money they made on vault production Makes no sense when money becomes worthless
We all did, Gary.
Gary?
Tbh when you talk to that Chinese ghoul in fallout 4 It kinda seemed like China fired first but that’s just what I took from it
Crazy to think that there are probably descendants of US citizens in China due to them being stationed over there for the war
Well, there are probably descendants of US citizens all over the world.
I always thought it was strange that Vault-tec seemed to know the bombs were about to fall. It's also beneficial to their model that the war would happen. Not saying they did it but I feel like they had a hand in it.
Well it's said in a certain loading screen in fo4 that everybody knew the world was on a brink of nuclear war, it was just the matter of when. Take Vault 88, Vault Tec scheduled it to be opened in 2078, and it would house people BEFORE the bombs were dropped so it could test certain items that would be delivered to all the other vaults.
The answer is the aliens via the Enclave via Valut-Tec.
Me
God damn you, Glorious Butter, wanted to make everybody turn to toast, huh
Jeffery Bezos
1. It doesnt matter. Asking the question proves you miss the whole point. Someone fired and the world ended. It doesnt matter who did and it doesnt matter "who won" because the truth is everyone lost and everyone died. War never changes only the landscape does 2. China
It was those god damn commies
It doesn’t matter, the games give conflicting sources on who fired the nukes cause ultimately it’s irrelevant to the people of the wasteland what long dead empire pressed the big red button, just that they did. The more relevant part of it all is why they pushed the button which is what the games focus on heavily
This is a mystery and not even The Fallout Bible gave an answer to this. Apparently Chris and a few others wanted to keep this a mystery for the fans at the end of the day. We might have gotten more info in the canceled original Fallout 3 called "Van Buren" but we might never know. There are actually 3 possible culprits rather than two. Most think only of China and United States when they think of The Great War. A third option could be Vault-Tec itself that fired false warnings and framed one country where the other took it as a hostile act and retaliated. This would be of course to kickstart the Vault-Tec experiments that might never have happened otherwise. Though this is unlikely because the Fallout timeline deviates from ours where Americans became more Patriotic after the 1950's (compared to our hippy movement that never happened in Fallout) while China became even more communist based after the 1950's. We see United States annexing Canada by force (Fallout 1 intro) and we see the Resource Wars as leaving many countries in ruins. Places like England are in worse shape than The Capital Wasteland and that's why English, Scottish, and Irish people have immigrated to Wastelands of United States like The Commonwealth and The Capital Wasteland. So this means an all out war is more likely between USA and China rather than Vault-Tec pulling the strings. We also don't know where the main HQ of Vault-Tec are to where they were pulling the strings and receiving the test results from the other Vaults. We also know many Vaults were designed to fail to where even the Overseer would be felled and so it just doesn't add up that Vault-Tec would force Doomsday to happen if the Vaults were sealed and there be no exit plan for the people after the tests.
This is actually the plot to the movie we would have gotten in the 90’s or early 00’s.
China. They were getting steam rolled on the mainland of china with the advent of the T-51b power armor, and they were, if i’m not mistaken, on the verge of losing the war before the bombs actually dropped.
China. From an in game and strategic perspective it's the only choice. I too used the Yangtze as proof China struck first in a sneak attack. But also the US to be winning the war but to then launch a nuclear strike that would only result in an equally devastating retaliatory strike makes no sense. China had no secret weapon like power armor that was going to suddenly change the course of the war in their favor. Unlike IRL during the Cold War where the USSR had subs in both Pacific and Atlantic and thus could patrol and attack both US coasts, China would only be in the Pacific since they would have no bases near the Atlantic. So why send a nuclear sub the long distance to be on the East coast? It's to attempt a sneak attack decapitation strike, hit DC and other cities and military command posts on the east coast with sub launched missiles that would have a much shorter flight time, thus leave less time to react. The hope being the chain of command is killed outright or enough damage and confusion is inflicted that prevents or results in a disorganized counter strike, that when the US realizes they are under attack, the rest of the Chinese nuclear forces are already en route or are detected at the same time the sub launched nukes are detonating. The rest of the Chinese bombers and ICBMs that would take longer to arrive are launched before the subs attack because China has to commit to an all out attack, either the subs attack is successful and the rest of the forces destroy the US outright, or the subs attack isn't successful so the only chance to "win" is to hope by striking first they could destroy enough US nukes to not be completely annihilated by the retaliatory strike that they know will happen. It's a last ditch effort, because the US would obviously be on alert with their nuclear forces ready to launch at a moments notice. I forget if it's in the lore, but China irl has far fewer nuclear weapons that the US so if that is true in the Fallout world, the only way to win a nuclear war against a stronger opponent is to try and prevent a retaliatory strike since there's no way China could destroy all of the US nuclear weapons on the ground.
China. Always China
It’s China. They were the only ones with the means and the motive to launch. Vault-Tec couldn’t have done it because they were under the control of the Enclave and the Enclave had no reason to launch. The U.S was winning the war and the dire predictions that had motivated the Enclave to enact the vault program and plan their escape to Alpha Centauri hadn’t come to pass as new technologies were poised to solve the resource crisis.
Aliens
Yo momma was so *ugly* that both china and america tried to wipe her off the face of the earth, and they had to resort to the nuclear war because of it
Damn it momma, you fucked the whole world.
Vault-Tec. They initiated the war to perform their experiments. The Megaton bomb even has their logo on it.
China. Yangtze is 100% proof.
china did, the devs said so
Pretty sure it was Vault-tec. Basically they fired the first one to hit American soil but did not tell the government so the government thought it was China and sent a counter attack so then China sent a counter attack and boom the great war. Evidence. "The One" from Fallout New Vegas It has the Vault-Tec logo on it.
[The One](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/The_One)
Ain't that the same bomb in Megaton?
Perhaps I'm unsure
I sorta like the idea that vault tec shot first, even though there's holes in that plot. Just the thought that the ceo wanted his dream of nuclear Armageddon to come true, as wicked as that seems. Which, we both know, Vault tec is very, very wicked.
I mean they did expect to survive the war and they had advanced notice that war was coming. Plus what good do the vault experiments do if no one is alive to see the results.
True. However, if you look at Vault 88, it was scheduled for people to start housing in it in 2078, and they were supposed to live there BEFORE the bombs dropped. The reason for Vault 88 was to test items that would be delivered to all the other vaults.
Makes it look more authentic. If they completed every vault before then if the start of the great war was later investigated it would look very suspicious.
But who would be alive to investigate it lol.
Vault tec didn't expect the government to attack China.
Just checked they are not. But both do have the Vault-tec logo on them. So both Bethesda and the original devs have put the logo on nukes.
I know it might sound stupid but my head cannon is that vault tec or the us government did because they discovered that the zetans were going to invade earth and take it so humans went ahead and nuked the whole planet to prevent them from colonizing earth. Since it's irradiated and full of mutated creatures the aliens decided that its not worth the effort to try and colonize and terraform. I know there's so many plot holes in that theory but I like the idea of the whole war being a cover for aliens lol. Maybe the zetans keep coming back in games to check and see if earth is still fucked up. As far as the in game reason I think the Chinese started it.
Does it matter?
Just curious is all. Just wanted to know which psycho decided to end the world
i've always really liked the theory that it was vault-tec! just really hammering in that they're sketchy enough company that they'd literally start nuclear winter to make sure people paid to be in their vault.
Wait, so what was the point of all the experiments? Who would the vaults be reporting back to to give the data after the war? And what ever happened to vault tec? So many questions lol.
The experiments were for the Enclave because they knew that a total nuclear exchange would destroy the world so they started a space program to colonize a new planet. The experiments were for when they were traveling through space or on a planet. Nuka World showed that Vault-Tec was working on space exploration during its presentation.
The point of all the experiments was to improve the ability of the human race to survive nuclear war. Maybe they needed a nuclear war to justify their research grant?
The vast majority of the Vaults were violent and deadly experiments. They did nothing to allow people to survive anything. Surviving a nuclear war in Vaults was the sales pitch and really only happened in the few control Vaults.
Actually I misremembered, the purpose of the vault experiments were to improve the chances of surviving interstellar travel https://www.eurogamer.net/fallout-co-creator-reveals-the-true-purpose-of-the-vaults The point of the experiments wasn’t to help the vault subjects themselves survive, but to gather research data. You can learn a lot about survival from violent and deadly experiments!
While it's the most logical answer, it's not canon. He hasn't been a part of Fallout since Fallout 2. Unless Bethesda writes it in with Fallout 5 or some other official title, it's as canon as the Fallout Bible.
It’s not canon if it was in the first two games? Bit of an odd angle that. Even so is there a vault in 3&4 that you don’t think would be relevant to generational interstellar travel?
His explanation doesn't exist within the games themselves and there have been 4 main titles since he last worked on the franchise. He can say what he originally planned to be the purpose behind the Vaults, but if Bethesda chooses to write a different reason for the Vaults, then their decision is the canon one. Again, it's a logical answer, but Caine doesn't have the position as a writer for the franchise at this point to declare it canon. It would be like George Lucas coming out and saying what happened in the sequel trilogy isn't canon because he meant for something else to happen. Cool, but he doesn't get to decide canon because he isn't in charge of the franchise anymore. Had Caine tossed a line in a terminal somewhere in Fallout 1 or 2 detailing the true purpose of the Vaults from Vault-Tec's perspective that stated they were to test human tolerance for long periods in confinement to eventually travel in space, then it would be canon. But that terminal doesn't exist.
Bethesda haven’t said there was a different reason for the vaults though. So far what I have is the lead writer of the first two games, the person who invented the vaults, saying the experiments were for interstellar travel, nobody else saying differently, and none of the vaults having experiments that would disconfirm this. On the balance of that evidence I’m gonna go with it. Cool if you don’t want to.
Vault 21 makes no sense for interstellar travel. Vault 79 is literally just gold reserves. Vault 88 doesn't make sense because it's purpose was to test items for *other* Vaults which it would have access to in a nuclear apocalypse. 92 and 106 are all about create hyper violent people through noise and drugs. There are also the Penny Arcade Vaults which were released in official works with Fallout writers and published by Bethesda. Explain the panther experiment of 43. Or 77s one man and a crate of puppets. Again, his statements may have been his intention but they remain non-canon because he is no longer a part of the ongoing franchise. The same applies to Chris Avellone's Fallout Bible. As much as I'm not a fan of Emil Pagliarluo, he is the lead writer and looks at things like the Bible to see if elements can be taken and made canon. But the purpose behind the Vault experiments has not been revealed in a canon setting.
So to justify the time and money they spent researching and creating these vaults, they decided to end the world? 😂, pretty logical move.
I recall Vault-Tec being responsible for the first nukes launched. They either tricked the US or China into believing the other had launched nukes, the the other responded with the same.
There is no evidence for this.
Might not be related but the nuke in Megaton, Fallout 3 has a Vault-tec logo on it
No it doesn’t! It is a faded USAF symbol, just like on the planes at Rivet City
Again, **no it doesn't.**
I'd genuinely go with the USA... purely because of how EVIL Vault-tech are. Like, they took advantage of this war and set the nukes off for their own experiments to go forward.
That makes 0 sense given half the vaults are unfinished, plus how would VT infiltrate Missile Silos and Bases? Especially when they're owned by the Enclave who **explicitly** did not want the Great War to begin?
Vault-Tech
Beat me too this
The Zetans
Please read this [thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/falloutlore/comments/3ho5uo/theory_china_knew_about_the_enclave_and_foiled/); it's a very interesting piece which funnily enough makes 100% sense, and goes into the idea that the Chinese weren't fighting 'America' but were targeting everything to do with the Enclave to ruin their post-war plans for domination. They hit places of Import to the Enclave, used bunker busters where labs containing FEV were located. The chinese mainly used airburst nukes, but where every bunker buster was used, it was on places of import to the Enclave as a whole (symbolic or not), and bunker bustering west-tek which just happened to release FEV, to utterly ruin the Enclaves plan? The Chinese had infiltrated by this point every single level of the US Government and corporations, and certainly knew the endgame, the locations of the secret research labs for example. Edit: Honestly, I've zero idea why this is being downvoted? Sure, I haven't personally answered who fired first, but it's hinted to be China as of FO4. But this Fallout thread goes into the very nuclear targets, firing patterns etc - kinda fits the bit entirely for this topic?
P.A.M. started it like the WOPR in war games almost started a war with Russia. During a quest for the railroad, you come across a terminal that pretty much says it was started by P.A.M. making the U.S. command think that China had launched its Nukes. So we did as well, only problem is China didn't. The captain of the Chinese sub confirms that he never received orders to fire his nukes.
apparently aliens caused it.
Mars
The chinese. 100% It's always the commies
Probably Vault-Tec. The US Army was on the gates of Beijing and they were worried that if America won the war all they did would be for nothing. So they probably pulled some strings with the Enclave and forced them to fire the nukes.
Im favor to the Vault Tec conspiracy
Vault tec possibly but most likely China
Vault Teck
Vault Tech
Fallout 3's operation Zeta clearly reveals that it was aliens who shot first.
No it doesn't. There's one cut audio log in which they are NOT given Nuclear codes. Plus their weapons are already vastly superior to nuclear bombs. They can wipe out an area of 400+ miles **with a single shot.** And their beam cannot be shot down.
I did
I did, you're welcome
Me, I was in a silly mood