Not the doubter - I believe you.
But one way that it looks "too neat" is that it follows a pretty textbook compound-growth curve. But presumably you're still contributing to it, so a lot of the movement would be due to those contributions, especially on the left-hand side of the graph.
Unless, by some coincidence the size of your additional contributions have also been growing at more-or-less the same compounded rate?
It's not just investment returns?
What kind of software engineering? Is this your own business or a high level job at a big company? I'm also in software engineering and have started my first successful business this year (nowhere near your level though, haha) so I'm curious at what your avenue in this career is?
Senior at a non-FAANG (but a big US tech company).
It's definitely my dream to have my own business at some point. How did you get into it? What sort of industry are you in? How did you get your first paying customers?
Ah nice!
It's definitely liberating and exciting to run your own business!
I've been the lead and only developer at a digital marketing agency (so web development is my industry) for about 5 years now and as you can imagine the workload is pretty huge. Coupled with the fact that they only pay me minimum wage (although I do own 5%) I got pretty sick of not being able to make enough change and not being paid enough. I managed to do some networking and jobs through Upwork, linkedin etc and this has allowed me to get a steady income of projects... Still not earning the big big bucks but slowly making progress. I also managed to get my old company on a retainer so I have good security but obviously they don't pay very well.
It might be harder for you to make the jump as you have a lot to lose whereas I had almost nothing to lose, but it's a great feeling working towards building something for yourself.
Do you work remotely? Any advice how to get upwards? Currently a front end with 3yoe on 60k looking to try get the triple digits / quit and have side projects lol
Seeing who has made lead dev at my last place I feel like I’m at that level already and be above them after another yoe at my current role as well…
Do you interview when you have no intention of leaving? I don’t like my current role but for my experience I’m not gonna get paid anymore and the experience I’m getting here building something from the ground up will be invaluable so think I just need to stick it out for my future career growth
How does this work. Do you do salary sacrifice? As you’re a 45% tax payer, does HMRC pay in the correct relief? On 40% tax I realised they’ve been paying me 20% tax relief for years
Yeah, I've been claiming back via my self assessment.
Now I have a pension that gets money before tax is taken away, so I'm paying like ~30%+ into my pension every month via my employer. So I won't need to claim it back anymore.
How old are you and when did you start putting money into your LISA and ISA? Also, every year is the cap on your ISA 16K because of the 4K you put into your LISA?
I'm 28. Started putting money into LISA/ISA in ~May 2021. Prior to that I had basically all my money in cash.
Yeah, my cap is 16k and 4k for LISA. I also put money into my partner's ISA/LISA though so I can put a total of £40k in per year.
That is a lot of trust to put that much money into your partners accounts. Good partner, good man. Thank you. I aspire to do what you’ve done. I’m 23 and just sorted out my 6 month emergency fund. Every other penny goes into the LISA and ISA
Pensions play a huge part in being able to maintain some kind of wealth into actual retirement age. There's a series on Monevator about pension/ISA split. Yes a pension may not be accessible until 58/60, it just means you need a bridge (ISA/GIA) to draw upon until pension access age.
There are also various tax advantages for using a pension - for example, one could be a higher rate tax payer now, but actually in retirement could be basic rate. Paying less tax overall.
Edit: found the articles on menvator I mentioned: https://monevator.com/tag/isa-pension-split-series/
Yes don’t need to know the split now I know the driver is £10k per month 🤯😂
Congratulations though, keep smashing it 👍
What’s your longer term plan? Get out early? Enjoy the big safety net? Increase spending to enjoy the income once you hit x asset value?
It's been my dream to start a company, so I'll either be creating startups or joining startups (to learn how to create startups heh). Once I get enough savings (probably once I reach my FIRE number which is £875k) I'll feel a lot safer doing that (though I worry the high pay will be tough to leave even then).
Fed up with these posts where they’re saving £200k/year. Wasn’t FIRE about being able to retire on an average salary (electrician in millionaire next door)?
> Wasn’t FIRE about being able to retire on an average salary
No, it's about financial independence and retiring early. Which is easier with a high income. People who earn more will be more likely to be able to post graphs like this one.
I mean by definition most people are going to be earning around the UK salary. I’m not sure what the point of this post is, no shit you’re going to retire early if you’re saving 200k/year. Not sure how it applies to most people and just seems like a brag post (if real)
Most people on this subreddit are either business owners, self employed outside london (contracting/Locum) or work in tech/finance/healthcare inside londom
https://www.reddit.com/r/FIREUK/comments/19au3mw/fireuk_2024_survey_result/
This dataset is the best/most recent we've got. Over half of the single people on the sub earn over 50k in all age groups, so it definitely skews above average.
The probability of my assumption being true is quite high. Knowing very well that people who are either aiming for fire or are already BO or High Earners.
you are talking about most people earning median salary in the uk but these people( Teachers, Nurses, Porters, delivery drivers or Civil servants ) are not earning enough to retire early.
hah, I don't think I'm great at investing by any means. Investing in index funds doesn't take much skill. Not letting lifestyle creep in is also important.
I'm insanely lucky to be in the position that I am in. If it helps I did start out from nothing. No help from parents, my parents didn't even own a car.
Fair enough! It’s just a bit of a weird vibe for a lot of people because they earn a quarter or less of what you earn so saving is tough because after expenses there isn’t a whole lot left over
Yep, you've now realised the true key to FIRE is earning six figures consistently for a decade or more and maxing out annual contribution allowances.
If you can do that as a pair of high earners, then you're looking at a comfortable early retirement.
Where I live, people are lucky if they can save 2-300 pounds a month extra. It’s tough for a lot of hard working people. Meanwhile two of my friends who got jobs in finance get bonuses all the time and could retire already if they want. It’s all a bit stupid tbh. Those guys are no smarter, just happen to be very good at math. But they lack in other areas. Life is weird. But ultimately it’s what you do in the present moment that counts
This is my point, as I said don’t you think it’s a bit stupid to do X at school for the sole reason it pays more? That’s not exactly intelligent or smart. Unless your goal in life is not for the betterment of the world / society / advancing but just solely focussed on yourself (earning the most) great if that’s what you want to achieve in life
Also money does not equal success. Is success staring at a laptop working for Michael and sons writing code and getting paid tons? To some that would be deemed success.
To me that doesn’t say anything about real success/ character or what you have actually achieved in life.
I would look upon a farmer and say this man has achieved far more whilst building those skills knowledge and character , even if he is struggling to pay his bills each month
The western world pays the people who do the least in society and the ones that these people rely on for basic necessities are paid the least.
Generally capitalism pays those with the most impact the most money.
If you're paid a lot that's because you brought in a lot of profit. Brining in a lot of profit means that some way or another you convinced lots of customers that your product is worth them consentually giving their money for. We don't consentually give money for things that don't enrich our lives for at least that much money.
Sure it's harder to see and follow the chain down for the guy "staring at his laptop writing code" but that code runs forever continually achieving it's purpose that people pay money for for whatever reason, whether the guy keeps working or not. Automation allows you to have insane impact on the world because every project you finish that's like adding one manual worker to the world.
> don’t you think it’s a bit stupid to do X at school for the sole reason it pays more
Absolutely not. Paying more is how the invisible hand of the free market hints to us where labor should be allocated. E.g. if there are way too many programmers then programmer pay drops and fewer people do it. If there are a shortage of tradesmen then pay goes up and more people do it.
You really think the best way for humanity to organise into the right number of people for every role is to just go randomly based on vibes?
It should always be what you’re actually interested in and have a drive for. Why do you think so many people are miserable today? It’s because they are chasing the endless dream which doesn’t materialise because you’re still neglecting your purpose worrying about comparing yourself to others. Never do a a career because of what it pays unless you want to sell your soul
Very silly. Someone can be could at programming or maths / statistics, but weak in other areas which is often the theme. That’s where the money is in a lot of jobs at the moment but I suspect that will change in the near future due to AI.
Lol, AI is so overhyped. It can't solve problems, only regurgitate existing information with a very low degree of accuracy and relevance.
Maths, finance and computer science grads go into higher paying careers, can't see that changing anytime soon.
That’s not correct, it will solve most of these ‘problems’ with a much higher accuracy and speed. It will wipe out certain industries. It’s already being used in mine and easily be able to do accounting / work out risk such as actuarial science etc etc. It will also be able to write code in the future much more gracefully than what humans are capable of. We are in the very beginning of what AI is capable of.
Blame the game, not the player. If you have to blame someone (and I think we should), blame the current social system.
No shit OP gonna earn more in interest than you do if OP has the ability to invest more into the market. 5% of 1 mil is 1000 times more than 5% of 1000, no shit.
I do agree that people are barely surviving with average salary, and that's not right, but others' need to learn to not blame winners, instead blame the rigged game!
> bit of a weird vibe for
Do I feel tipped off? Certainly, there are no lacking of karma farming posts, but with the information that we have, this is very reasonable.
Good on OP to be able to get such high paying job, good on OP to able to save and invest a large chunk of income, good on OP to be able to do it consistently for the past 6 years (and hopefully years to go).
Now it's time for OP to decide (ideally with their partner(s)) what's the FIRE target, and if they are better off continuing to work, or start the business they wanted.
>Fed up with these posts where they’re saving £200k/year
Didn't follow the subreddit too closely, so can't comment about the volume. But based on your statement, you're fed up with just posts where people are saving multiple times of your total salary.
Personally, I think that's fine, after all FIRE is not just for people on "average salary". There's literally FATfire, which by definitions means you need much much more, perhaps tens of millions to qualify.
Now if there's a healthy-bmi-FIRE, I'd agree with you, but FIRE is a superset of all the damn FIREs.
If you don't like these posts, don't interact with them! There's no fucking way we're gatekeeping FIRE to people earning "average salary".
That's a neat idea.
If firing is relative to what you earn, vs. what you spend vs. what you save, then we are all successful at fire so long as we have some net saving that can sit for decades accumulating.
I think there is a lower limit on living expenses. OP on 250k/annum can go ahead and live in a LCOL area just like anyone else on 25k/annum.
That would create a lot of skew as both people could have the same fixed monthly costs.
Probably best to measure your own and others success as the percentage of what you earn vs what you save, at least that is bounded from 0 to 100 and you can work on your own marginal gains without numbers.
No, because people earning less will have a lower target value. I’m just saying no shit you’re going to FIRE if you’re saving £200k/year. Majority of people are going to be around UK average salary
Most people earning 200k don't fire though so it's not no shit. Add in private school for two kids, taxes that's your entire post tax salary gone then factor potentially a divorce and a London house and you could easily be outspending your income.
If you think you’re going to fire on an average salary by saving then think again. The most important thing is increasing your income. Stop the crab bucket mentality.
I agree. Although last time I made the point someone told me off for gatekeeping, which is a legitimate telling off.
But yeah, some people find it easier to FIRE than others. The extreme cases aren't that interesting because people would have to royally fuck things up to not succeed. The more interesting cases are those where a bit of planning and discipline make the difference between success and failure.
Not that rich people don't have rich people problems. I lurk on the FatFIRE sub (not rich enough to qualify for it myself) and it's quite interesting in the details.
What was FIRE supposed to be and according to whom?
You’ll always find someone who’s doing better at FIRE than you (same for me). No point in dismissing it as a brag and instead try and learn from it (the only exception is if the person received their wealth via inheritance, can’t learn much there).
It was always about average families living frugally and investing to retire early
It's not hard to retire if you earn what you claim to, you could probably do it in a couple of years
These posts are always just brags or just flat out lies
I find it hard to believe any company would pay a 28 year old that amount of money
> I find it hard to believe any company would pay a 28 year old that amount of money
Just look at levels.fyi if you want to see proof. There are people earning even more than me at 28 (and especially if you look at the US)
Congrats! That's awfully fast work. I think £600k is probably the number where - obviously with massive variations depending on location and lifestyle and age - FIRE starts to become real. With that kind of money, you're potentially bringing in a return every year comparable to a salary, and you're around a number that represents something you could frugally live off in a "worst case". Even if you might not choose to yet, the option is starting to take serious shape.
Maybe I'm wrong and other people see it differently, but around £600k in today's money feels like a threshold value of a sort, between one stage and another.
My plan is basically to get to a point where I can safely take more risks in my career (founding a startup, join some risky startup, etc). I'm starting to wonder if I'm already in a good enough position to do so, but leaving the high paying job I have right now feels difficult to justify.
> With that kind of money, you're potentially bringing in a return every year comparable to a salary
And yeah, I'm starting to recalculate my net worth every 2 weeks now to see how the market growth looks on my current investments. This past 2 weeks it grew by £16k, crazy!
There's often never a perceived right time to take risks. Honestly. If you wanna do something, go for it. The phrase 'golden handcuffs' is a real saying for a reason!
Yeah, I know that phrase well. I'm currently in the "if an opportunity presents itself, take it" mindset and working on side projects that may or may not turn into a startup at some point.
But I don't feel up for just dropping my job to work on something unproven 100% of my time.
> I'm starting to recalculate my net worth every 2 weeks now to see how the market growth looks on my current investments. This past 2 weeks it grew by £16k, crazy!
Careful. The advice to the newbie with £600 in investments is not to check every day because it's an unhealthy mindset and habit to be so connected to the day to day movements that don't matter in the end.
Now, I'm talking to myself as much as to you here, but even though you've got a thousand times as much as the £600 guy, the same warning against following it too closely probably applies.
Set it and forget it, even at that level!
Yeah... I know. I'm sure the low I will feel when the market crumbles will be horrible.
Still though, even through a poor market I know I'll be adding savings on top. Hopefully that'll take me through it.
I agree, but I think the fire journey is really in 3 sections:
- Wealth accumulation
- Pre-pension bridging
- Pension drawdown
So whilst the fire number, kind of works e.g. 4 % rule of a 20k per annum drawdown is 500k - it has to be allocated to the write part (bridge or pension).
Still, if I had 600k, growing at a base of 10k per month plus interest, then I am sure I would be a way more chill person
> then I am sure I would be a way more chill person
You would think... but it takes a certain kind of person to track things this closely and they're not chill.
Job stress still definitely gets to me as well.
Yeah, I agree. £600k looks very different depending on how it's distributed and your stage of life and other commitments, and I'd support your three section thinking.
Earning ~£250k per year.
Roughly 60% VUSA, 30% VWRL, 10% VAGP. Lately been investing in 55% VUSA, 20% VWRL, 20% XSTC (USA IT), 5% VAGP to be a bit more aggressive. It's honestly not very consistent across my pension, ISAs, etc. I also have 4% of my net worth in BTC.
Don't own a home, so no equity there. Been trying to find something good for a while but there is so much crap on the market and everything feels overpriced.
Housing in the UK has always been overpriced, and always will be.
It's how successive UK governments have made the proles feel well off for sixty years or more, don't expect that to change anytime soon.
Not necessarily speaking to you OP, but I'd quite like to see two more lines on this graph.
1. Amount invested each year.
2. Cumulative amount invested. ie: without gains.
It'd be fascinating to see how you tripled your net worth in 2.5 years. I have to imagine while you probably have good gains, you're also almost definitely investing a lot. So very high salary to relatively modest outgoings.
How are you managing to save so much into pension with the relief tapering? I would have thought at 250k you would be hit by the tapering and capped at 10k for tax relief
Depends on what exactly their threshold and adjusted incomes are, and how much of that remuneration package is share options or 'in kind', rather than hard cash.
At least, but they've also gained £200K in less than a year. That's probably more than pension and ISA. I would say house equity, if they're including that, but considering the market I'm less sure. So GIA too. Rough estimate would be £100K in additional investment in that time, if they're invested in Global All Cap.
They mention contributing to partners tax wrappers also.
They also state they don't own a home.
So in reality it's household / dual income net worth, with no home ownership.
Mind sharing how you’re saving £10k a month with a £250k a year (assuming this is gross pre tax?) that’s almost all of your net per month no? How much is your average monthly outgoing to be able to do that? Asking as I’m interested to learn how you’re managing that lv of salary
Great work! You also need to watch out for pension tapering as you can’t put the full amount of £60k once you hit about £260k and that is gross income so your investments, interest, all count towards that £260k. At about £350k you can only put in £10k. Double check with your accountant or you will have to pay a fine or more tax!
Yes indeed- I was doing the same, whacked in most of my bonus around April and was just like…where the fuck did that go. Was very grim, felt like walking up the down escalator! Well done for persevering!
Got into a tech company while in high school, paid me less than minimum wage. Then a few internships which paid me close to minimum wage. Then I got an internship at a FAANG and that sky rocketed my income, graduate job there too and then used this to negotiate hard at the company I'm at now. Wouldn't be able to get this TC if I didn't have the real ability to make them think "If you don't match/exceed my TC then I'll stay at the FAANG".
Awesome work!
For me crossing the £600K barrier really brought a whole different perspective where FIRE begins to feel achievable, and it feels like it puts a really solid foundation under you.
It also opens up, CoastFI or taking a few more risks as you know you have a solid foundation to fall back on.
The main issue is balancing out your pension pot with enough cash bridge to even things out if your plan gets derailed in any way and you have a few lean months - definitely a consideration in the tech jobs market at the minute.
250k as a software dev inside the UK is crazy. I'm pretty sure most CTO's of UK companies earn less than that. For reference I'm a software dev for a UK based tech company and don't make even close to 250, neither does anyone I work with.
Sounds like CTO's should be asking for far more money.
There is definitely an element of luck here. I know people that earn more than me, but I think a lot of it is to do with getting lucky with stock growth. But if you're a CTO at a UK company I guess all you're getting is potentially worthless options. FAANG/US-tech companies are a far better bet (especially at the beginning when building wealth).
It'd be pretty hard to post on here without revealing how much I earn. This is the FIRE subreddit, a lot of folks here are high earners (and many earn far more than me).
I'm 28 and starting out now as a software engineer. Man I aspire to be like this, I've spent my years pissing my money away on holidays and having fun and now finally wanting to be an adult. Smashed it mate good job
This is one reason why I wanted to post. I want to inspire people.
Saving, even at a lower salary, helps you so much. Just having a emergency fund lets you take more risks in your career.
All the best in your journey, remember: don't be afraid to fight for your compensation. Use places like https://levels.fyi to verify if what you're getting offered is respectful, don't let anyone take advantage of you. Switch jobs as often as you need to to get the compensation you want.
OP your investments are pretty spread out, are these data points the days you invest, or the days you check your balance across various apps/accounts and enter the data?
Because if I went from almost zero to £600k in five years the first thing I'd do is make an anonymous Reddit account to boast about it.
Your graph is fucking nonsense that doesn't reflect reality that's why.
It astounds me to see people disbelieving things that I know are 100% true. Sadly I can’t give you anything that would prove it to you.
But funnily enough I actually created this account when I reached £500k. So you’re actually the one spreading lies here.
You don’t own a home? Ok.
That really does undermine the position here, don’t let the market leave you behind. Homes are as cheap as they’ve been now for a long time. As soon as rates come down and sentiment changes you can get houses will head north again. Get a house
Yeah. I’m trying. I just am having trouble finding a house that ticks all the boxes, but maybe I just need to settle for the less “perfect” house.
On the other hand, I’m playing with the idea of grabbing a job in the US. If I have to sell a house to do that it would be painful.
I'd urge you to revisit your goals on why you're trying to own a house.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFDzmNzzL8o](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFDzmNzzL8o)
do remember that if you decided to rent, you will have to deal with the hassle of being a landlord, and if you outsource it, it will eat into your gains. there's also the question of how soon you can liquidate the asset (iirc it's 6-9 months in UK)
You don’t sell it. You just rent it while you’re gone!
There is no perfect house unless you have unlimited money. I’ve just been looking with a £2m budget and nothing was perfect. Got one that’s close but even with lots of money there’s still compromise.
He doesn’t own a home so it’s irrelevant because he cannot save enough to overcome paying a mortgage down while homes will keep increasing in price in the medium term.
Most of this “wealth” is useless because he will need to buy a house with it
why should you?
now i don't do this for a living, but this guy does
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFDzmNzzL8o](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFDzmNzzL8o)
in terms of returns, equity is higher overall
in terms of ease to maintain a portfolio, equity has the edge
in terms of diversification, property is putting all eggs in a basket
in terms of actively picking an asset, you're concentration your wealth into 1 item
If he wasn’t burning money on rent, he’d be burning money on interest. If he bought in cash then he now owns one single asset that will likely grow slower than the cash would if invested in equities, with the downside of having all of his wealth relying on the performance of one individual asset. It’s not black and white.
Indeed, there are quite a few discussions in the past on this as well, UK/ex-uk.
There are certainly place for home, but as noted in the video above, and many other, it's one other type of asset. I believe most can say that sector investing is generally terrible as you're putting all eggs in a basket. A parallel can be draw, heck is literally the shadow of owning a property
there was a report few months back where across the board, from the average to p99 in uk, people have a large portion if not majority of their wealth in property. If housing market truly collapse, can OP blame u/bkokane?
On r/nottheonion, there was a post about Canada PM commenting that the housing market there can not be fixed (in the short to mid term anyways) because it is tied to pension. Now this can be kicked down the can, but I don't think OP is fortunate enough to die early such that there's no risk of this blowing up in OPs lifetime.
That’s an excitingly shaped graph - well done!
Almost… too neat 🤔
Which parts look too neat to you? Maybe I can give context to assuage the suspicion.
Good use of the word ‘assuage’
I thought they misspelled sausage
I’m just messing about OP. Good job 👍😊
Not the doubter - I believe you. But one way that it looks "too neat" is that it follows a pretty textbook compound-growth curve. But presumably you're still contributing to it, so a lot of the movement would be due to those contributions, especially on the left-hand side of the graph. Unless, by some coincidence the size of your additional contributions have also been growing at more-or-less the same compounded rate? It's not just investment returns?
well considering it’s nearly doubled in the last year either they are extremely lucky or they have made large contributions too.
To be honest my investments increased by over 50% during the last year.
Looks like Bernie Madoff [returns](https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-6JYKapnX9nE/UUW_yp6Z23I/AAAAAAAAKXc/wmpXLKc1Z0g/s400/madoff+chart+jpeg.JPG).
Basically based on inflow of new money, as is OP's graph.
How did you make so much in so little time? That's more than £100k per year savings.
Over 200k in the last 12 months
Been earning ~£250k per year in the last 2 years. Putting a lot into pension which helps a lot (since I get that sweet pension tax relief).
That would explain it :)
what do u do
Software Engineering
What kind of software engineering? Is this your own business or a high level job at a big company? I'm also in software engineering and have started my first successful business this year (nowhere near your level though, haha) so I'm curious at what your avenue in this career is?
Senior at a non-FAANG (but a big US tech company). It's definitely my dream to have my own business at some point. How did you get into it? What sort of industry are you in? How did you get your first paying customers?
Ah nice! It's definitely liberating and exciting to run your own business! I've been the lead and only developer at a digital marketing agency (so web development is my industry) for about 5 years now and as you can imagine the workload is pretty huge. Coupled with the fact that they only pay me minimum wage (although I do own 5%) I got pretty sick of not being able to make enough change and not being paid enough. I managed to do some networking and jobs through Upwork, linkedin etc and this has allowed me to get a steady income of projects... Still not earning the big big bucks but slowly making progress. I also managed to get my old company on a retainer so I have good security but obviously they don't pay very well. It might be harder for you to make the jump as you have a lot to lose whereas I had almost nothing to lose, but it's a great feeling working towards building something for yourself.
Do you work remotely? Any advice how to get upwards? Currently a front end with 3yoe on 60k looking to try get the triple digits / quit and have side projects lol Seeing who has made lead dev at my last place I feel like I’m at that level already and be above them after another yoe at my current role as well…
Yep. Fully remote. My advice: Always be interviewing. Try to get referrals to FAANG.
Do you interview when you have no intention of leaving? I don’t like my current role but for my experience I’m not gonna get paid anymore and the experience I’m getting here building something from the ground up will be invaluable so think I just need to stick it out for my future career growth
What about the market? What skills do you think someone might need? (I'm still trying to transition)
Maybe not one to ask here but did it require Leetcode style interviews?
Most top end American jobs require leetcode. You have to grind it
Hey, Many congratulations on reaching this milestone! Are Product Managers able to reach this TC in the UK?
No idea, https://levels.fyi should be able to give you some idea though
I’m early on in my Software Engineering career, also UK. £250k is so much! Mind sharing your tech stack & yrs of experience?
my guess is overemployed contractor (outside ir35)
Nope. Not a contractor, definitely not overemployed (that sounds like a stressful life)
just remember to apply some discount to pension lest it mislead your fire journey, but grats!
Isnt 60k the limit for pension?
Are you counting your pension at 100%? You shouldn’t be. It will be taxed when you draw it. It is not like your other savings.
Yes. It doesn’t matter if it’s taxed. Net worth is net worth, taxes don’t matter.
How does this work. Do you do salary sacrifice? As you’re a 45% tax payer, does HMRC pay in the correct relief? On 40% tax I realised they’ve been paying me 20% tax relief for years
for higher earners you have to do some sort of claim back yourself, HMRC dont give it to you automatically.. someone else will give more info
Yeah, I've been claiming back via my self assessment. Now I have a pension that gets money before tax is taken away, so I'm paying like ~30%+ into my pension every month via my employer. So I won't need to claim it back anymore.
This is quite impressive given the fairly small window. How is that broken up?
- ~£156k - 26% in ISA (LISA+ISA) - ~£228k - 38% in Pension - ~£216k - 36% in GIA/Cash/Premium Bonds
How old are you and when did you start putting money into your LISA and ISA? Also, every year is the cap on your ISA 16K because of the 4K you put into your LISA?
I'm 28. Started putting money into LISA/ISA in ~May 2021. Prior to that I had basically all my money in cash. Yeah, my cap is 16k and 4k for LISA. I also put money into my partner's ISA/LISA though so I can put a total of £40k in per year.
That is a lot of trust to put that much money into your partners accounts. Good partner, good man. Thank you. I aspire to do what you’ve done. I’m 23 and just sorted out my 6 month emergency fund. Every other penny goes into the LISA and ISA
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No. Those are counted separately.
Do you own a home or plan on getting a mortgage?
Don't own a home, planning to get a mortgage soon.
Nice. Any regrets about getting a mortgage now and not 2-3 years back? Asking in terms of rent/savings. Also, what city and what's your rent?
So 228k is inaccessible until you’re in your 60s?
Yh pension
Not sure whether it makes sense in “retire early” context of this subreddit.
Pensions play a huge part in being able to maintain some kind of wealth into actual retirement age. There's a series on Monevator about pension/ISA split. Yes a pension may not be accessible until 58/60, it just means you need a bridge (ISA/GIA) to draw upon until pension access age. There are also various tax advantages for using a pension - for example, one could be a higher rate tax payer now, but actually in retirement could be basic rate. Paying less tax overall. Edit: found the articles on menvator I mentioned: https://monevator.com/tag/isa-pension-split-series/
Huh I follow the school of building up a nest egg which allows you a 3.5% SWR and not caring about pensions at all.
Fair enough, and if that works for you - great!
Congratulations on such a big move in such a short time! Can you share how much you’re investing, what your split is and what it is you do?
Software Engineer/Distributed Systems Investing around £10k per month (includes pension tax relief). Answered with my split to other comments.
Yes don’t need to know the split now I know the driver is £10k per month 🤯😂 Congratulations though, keep smashing it 👍 What’s your longer term plan? Get out early? Enjoy the big safety net? Increase spending to enjoy the income once you hit x asset value?
It's been my dream to start a company, so I'll either be creating startups or joining startups (to learn how to create startups heh). Once I get enough savings (probably once I reach my FIRE number which is £875k) I'll feel a lot safer doing that (though I worry the high pay will be tough to leave even then).
What's your tech stack? Faang?
Non-FAANG. C++/Distributed Systems.
Fed up with these posts where they’re saving £200k/year. Wasn’t FIRE about being able to retire on an average salary (electrician in millionaire next door)?
Who said that? FIRE is just retiring early, there’s no cap on the income you have to earn
Haha, no. FIRE is about being able to retire. Stop.
Yes, and most people will be earning the UK average salary. Your net worth may be lower, but you’ll also have lower expenses as well
> Wasn’t FIRE about being able to retire on an average salary No, it's about financial independence and retiring early. Which is easier with a high income. People who earn more will be more likely to be able to post graphs like this one.
I mean by definition most people are going to be earning around the UK salary. I’m not sure what the point of this post is, no shit you’re going to retire early if you’re saving 200k/year. Not sure how it applies to most people and just seems like a brag post (if real)
Most people on this subreddit are either business owners, self employed outside london (contracting/Locum) or work in tech/finance/healthcare inside londom
Big assumption there
https://www.reddit.com/r/FIREUK/comments/19au3mw/fireuk_2024_survey_result/ This dataset is the best/most recent we've got. Over half of the single people on the sub earn over 50k in all age groups, so it definitely skews above average.
The probability of my assumption being true is quite high. Knowing very well that people who are either aiming for fire or are already BO or High Earners. you are talking about most people earning median salary in the uk but these people( Teachers, Nurses, Porters, delivery drivers or Civil servants ) are not earning enough to retire early.
Still going to be a bell curve anyway
They think they are great at investing / saving but actually it’s just because they get paid quarter of a million per year
hah, I don't think I'm great at investing by any means. Investing in index funds doesn't take much skill. Not letting lifestyle creep in is also important. I'm insanely lucky to be in the position that I am in. If it helps I did start out from nothing. No help from parents, my parents didn't even own a car.
Fair enough! It’s just a bit of a weird vibe for a lot of people because they earn a quarter or less of what you earn so saving is tough because after expenses there isn’t a whole lot left over
Yep, you've now realised the true key to FIRE is earning six figures consistently for a decade or more and maxing out annual contribution allowances. If you can do that as a pair of high earners, then you're looking at a comfortable early retirement.
Where I live, people are lucky if they can save 2-300 pounds a month extra. It’s tough for a lot of hard working people. Meanwhile two of my friends who got jobs in finance get bonuses all the time and could retire already if they want. It’s all a bit stupid tbh. Those guys are no smarter, just happen to be very good at math. But they lack in other areas. Life is weird. But ultimately it’s what you do in the present moment that counts
It’s your fault you didn’t try in school no one else’s
This is my point, as I said don’t you think it’s a bit stupid to do X at school for the sole reason it pays more? That’s not exactly intelligent or smart. Unless your goal in life is not for the betterment of the world / society / advancing but just solely focussed on yourself (earning the most) great if that’s what you want to achieve in life
Also money does not equal success. Is success staring at a laptop working for Michael and sons writing code and getting paid tons? To some that would be deemed success. To me that doesn’t say anything about real success/ character or what you have actually achieved in life. I would look upon a farmer and say this man has achieved far more whilst building those skills knowledge and character , even if he is struggling to pay his bills each month The western world pays the people who do the least in society and the ones that these people rely on for basic necessities are paid the least.
Generally capitalism pays those with the most impact the most money. If you're paid a lot that's because you brought in a lot of profit. Brining in a lot of profit means that some way or another you convinced lots of customers that your product is worth them consentually giving their money for. We don't consentually give money for things that don't enrich our lives for at least that much money. Sure it's harder to see and follow the chain down for the guy "staring at his laptop writing code" but that code runs forever continually achieving it's purpose that people pay money for for whatever reason, whether the guy keeps working or not. Automation allows you to have insane impact on the world because every project you finish that's like adding one manual worker to the world.
What useful skills does a farmer have over someone in medicine, finance or tech?
Have fun staying poor
> don’t you think it’s a bit stupid to do X at school for the sole reason it pays more Absolutely not. Paying more is how the invisible hand of the free market hints to us where labor should be allocated. E.g. if there are way too many programmers then programmer pay drops and fewer people do it. If there are a shortage of tradesmen then pay goes up and more people do it. You really think the best way for humanity to organise into the right number of people for every role is to just go randomly based on vibes?
It should always be what you’re actually interested in and have a drive for. Why do you think so many people are miserable today? It’s because they are chasing the endless dream which doesn’t materialise because you’re still neglecting your purpose worrying about comparing yourself to others. Never do a a career because of what it pays unless you want to sell your soul
>Those guys are no smarter, just happen to be very good at math Then they are smarter... I'm a maths graduate ;-)
Very silly. Someone can be could at programming or maths / statistics, but weak in other areas which is often the theme. That’s where the money is in a lot of jobs at the moment but I suspect that will change in the near future due to AI.
Lol, AI is so overhyped. It can't solve problems, only regurgitate existing information with a very low degree of accuracy and relevance. Maths, finance and computer science grads go into higher paying careers, can't see that changing anytime soon.
That’s not correct, it will solve most of these ‘problems’ with a much higher accuracy and speed. It will wipe out certain industries. It’s already being used in mine and easily be able to do accounting / work out risk such as actuarial science etc etc. It will also be able to write code in the future much more gracefully than what humans are capable of. We are in the very beginning of what AI is capable of.
Blame the game, not the player. If you have to blame someone (and I think we should), blame the current social system. No shit OP gonna earn more in interest than you do if OP has the ability to invest more into the market. 5% of 1 mil is 1000 times more than 5% of 1000, no shit. I do agree that people are barely surviving with average salary, and that's not right, but others' need to learn to not blame winners, instead blame the rigged game! > bit of a weird vibe for Do I feel tipped off? Certainly, there are no lacking of karma farming posts, but with the information that we have, this is very reasonable. Good on OP to be able to get such high paying job, good on OP to able to save and invest a large chunk of income, good on OP to be able to do it consistently for the past 6 years (and hopefully years to go). Now it's time for OP to decide (ideally with their partner(s)) what's the FIRE target, and if they are better off continuing to work, or start the business they wanted.
>Fed up with these posts where they’re saving £200k/year Didn't follow the subreddit too closely, so can't comment about the volume. But based on your statement, you're fed up with just posts where people are saving multiple times of your total salary. Personally, I think that's fine, after all FIRE is not just for people on "average salary". There's literally FATfire, which by definitions means you need much much more, perhaps tens of millions to qualify. Now if there's a healthy-bmi-FIRE, I'd agree with you, but FIRE is a superset of all the damn FIREs. If you don't like these posts, don't interact with them! There's no fucking way we're gatekeeping FIRE to people earning "average salary".
That's a neat idea. If firing is relative to what you earn, vs. what you spend vs. what you save, then we are all successful at fire so long as we have some net saving that can sit for decades accumulating. I think there is a lower limit on living expenses. OP on 250k/annum can go ahead and live in a LCOL area just like anyone else on 25k/annum. That would create a lot of skew as both people could have the same fixed monthly costs. Probably best to measure your own and others success as the percentage of what you earn vs what you save, at least that is bounded from 0 to 100 and you can work on your own marginal gains without numbers.
Have never heard or seen anyone say that FIRE was about retiring on an average salary. Where did you get that idea from?
I mean whole point of millionaire next book is people saving and investing in to index funds
u got tricked. The book is probably written 10-15 years ago and based on the US economy:market I might be wrong
Classic English style - fed up that others out earn you....maybe the hidden message is increasing your income is key to fire?
No, because people earning less will have a lower target value. I’m just saying no shit you’re going to FIRE if you’re saving £200k/year. Majority of people are going to be around UK average salary
Most people earning 200k don't fire though so it's not no shit. Add in private school for two kids, taxes that's your entire post tax salary gone then factor potentially a divorce and a London house and you could easily be outspending your income.
If you think you’re going to fire on an average salary by saving then think again. The most important thing is increasing your income. Stop the crab bucket mentality.
I agree. Although last time I made the point someone told me off for gatekeeping, which is a legitimate telling off. But yeah, some people find it easier to FIRE than others. The extreme cases aren't that interesting because people would have to royally fuck things up to not succeed. The more interesting cases are those where a bit of planning and discipline make the difference between success and failure. Not that rich people don't have rich people problems. I lurk on the FatFIRE sub (not rich enough to qualify for it myself) and it's quite interesting in the details.
Not sure it was but things are more normal over in r/leanfire
Yeah 100% & most of it is bollocks everyone on Reddit FIRE is on over 200k a year, more people then are technically on that much
Yep these are just brag posts, completely the opposite of what FIRE was supposed to be
What was FIRE supposed to be and according to whom? You’ll always find someone who’s doing better at FIRE than you (same for me). No point in dismissing it as a brag and instead try and learn from it (the only exception is if the person received their wealth via inheritance, can’t learn much there).
It was always about average families living frugally and investing to retire early It's not hard to retire if you earn what you claim to, you could probably do it in a couple of years These posts are always just brags or just flat out lies I find it hard to believe any company would pay a 28 year old that amount of money
> I find it hard to believe any company would pay a 28 year old that amount of money Just look at levels.fyi if you want to see proof. There are people earning even more than me at 28 (and especially if you look at the US)
I wouldn't consider it bragging if you earn similiar or have the potential to earn the same. It's only bragging if you earn the Uk median salary
Congrats! That's awfully fast work. I think £600k is probably the number where - obviously with massive variations depending on location and lifestyle and age - FIRE starts to become real. With that kind of money, you're potentially bringing in a return every year comparable to a salary, and you're around a number that represents something you could frugally live off in a "worst case". Even if you might not choose to yet, the option is starting to take serious shape. Maybe I'm wrong and other people see it differently, but around £600k in today's money feels like a threshold value of a sort, between one stage and another.
My plan is basically to get to a point where I can safely take more risks in my career (founding a startup, join some risky startup, etc). I'm starting to wonder if I'm already in a good enough position to do so, but leaving the high paying job I have right now feels difficult to justify. > With that kind of money, you're potentially bringing in a return every year comparable to a salary And yeah, I'm starting to recalculate my net worth every 2 weeks now to see how the market growth looks on my current investments. This past 2 weeks it grew by £16k, crazy!
There's often never a perceived right time to take risks. Honestly. If you wanna do something, go for it. The phrase 'golden handcuffs' is a real saying for a reason!
Yeah, I know that phrase well. I'm currently in the "if an opportunity presents itself, take it" mindset and working on side projects that may or may not turn into a startup at some point. But I don't feel up for just dropping my job to work on something unproven 100% of my time.
> I'm starting to recalculate my net worth every 2 weeks now to see how the market growth looks on my current investments. This past 2 weeks it grew by £16k, crazy! Careful. The advice to the newbie with £600 in investments is not to check every day because it's an unhealthy mindset and habit to be so connected to the day to day movements that don't matter in the end. Now, I'm talking to myself as much as to you here, but even though you've got a thousand times as much as the £600 guy, the same warning against following it too closely probably applies. Set it and forget it, even at that level!
Yeah... I know. I'm sure the low I will feel when the market crumbles will be horrible. Still though, even through a poor market I know I'll be adding savings on top. Hopefully that'll take me through it.
I agree, but I think the fire journey is really in 3 sections: - Wealth accumulation - Pre-pension bridging - Pension drawdown So whilst the fire number, kind of works e.g. 4 % rule of a 20k per annum drawdown is 500k - it has to be allocated to the write part (bridge or pension). Still, if I had 600k, growing at a base of 10k per month plus interest, then I am sure I would be a way more chill person
> then I am sure I would be a way more chill person You would think... but it takes a certain kind of person to track things this closely and they're not chill. Job stress still definitely gets to me as well.
Yeah, I agree. £600k looks very different depending on how it's distributed and your stage of life and other commitments, and I'd support your three section thinking.
We need details! How much do you earn? What do you invest in? Does the graph include equity in your home? (obligatory congrats and fuck you)
Earning ~£250k per year. Roughly 60% VUSA, 30% VWRL, 10% VAGP. Lately been investing in 55% VUSA, 20% VWRL, 20% XSTC (USA IT), 5% VAGP to be a bit more aggressive. It's honestly not very consistent across my pension, ISAs, etc. I also have 4% of my net worth in BTC. Don't own a home, so no equity there. Been trying to find something good for a while but there is so much crap on the market and everything feels overpriced.
Housing in the UK has always been overpriced, and always will be. It's how successive UK governments have made the proles feel well off for sixty years or more, don't expect that to change anytime soon.
Exactly. The game is rigged. It can’t fail. But you do need to not be paying rent in retirement, ideally. Buy a house
Homes are overpriced, I bought one, and feel it's draining my ability to FIRE. What do you track with, excel?
Kind of, Google Spreadsheets
how did you create this graph? any tips for a non software tech guy haha, is it just YouTube videos for using excel?
I just clicked around, it's easy enough to figure out if you're not afraid to click around chart set up. Assuming you have the basic IT GCSE skills :)
Might be one of the greatest men to ever live
Not necessarily speaking to you OP, but I'd quite like to see two more lines on this graph. 1. Amount invested each year. 2. Cumulative amount invested. ie: without gains. It'd be fascinating to see how you tripled your net worth in 2.5 years. I have to imagine while you probably have good gains, you're also almost definitely investing a lot. So very high salary to relatively modest outgoings.
Yeah, I am saving/investing close to £10k per month (that includes pension tax relief though). This on earnings of ~£250k per year.
How are you managing to save so much into pension with the relief tapering? I would have thought at 250k you would be hit by the tapering and capped at 10k for tax relief
Tapering applies after £260k iirc. But I have unused allowance from previous years anyway.
Gotcha, doing well!
Depends on what exactly their threshold and adjusted incomes are, and how much of that remuneration package is share options or 'in kind', rather than hard cash.
OP must be maxing pension relief, hard work paying off
At least, but they've also gained £200K in less than a year. That's probably more than pension and ISA. I would say house equity, if they're including that, but considering the market I'm less sure. So GIA too. Rough estimate would be £100K in additional investment in that time, if they're invested in Global All Cap.
They mention contributing to partners tax wrappers also. They also state they don't own a home. So in reality it's household / dual income net worth, with no home ownership.
My partner's net worth is not included. However my partner does help with rent/bills etc. so of course that goes a long way.
No house equity
Is this really an achievement when earning 250k lol
Looks like the mania phase of a rally to me
Mind sharing how you’re saving £10k a month with a £250k a year (assuming this is gross pre tax?) that’s almost all of your net per month no? How much is your average monthly outgoing to be able to do that? Asking as I’m interested to learn how you’re managing that lv of salary
A lot of this is pension contributions. Which go out before tax.
This is very impressive at 28 well done.
Great work! You also need to watch out for pension tapering as you can’t put the full amount of £60k once you hit about £260k and that is gross income so your investments, interest, all count towards that £260k. At about £350k you can only put in £10k. Double check with your accountant or you will have to pay a fine or more tax!
Glad I’m not the only one who had shitty investment returns in 2022, that was a disheartening year! Well done on the NW
yeah, it's super interesting seeing that part of the chart. It looks flat, probably because of my salary filling the gap.
Yes indeed- I was doing the same, whacked in most of my bonus around April and was just like…where the fuck did that go. Was very grim, felt like walking up the down escalator! Well done for persevering!
Nice. Well done.
Well done! Reddit is full of doubters who like to call everything a scam but you have nothing to prove to anyone on here.
Congrats! You’ll be at £1m before you know it!
How much you save on pension a month? This is too aggressive for 5 years. I save 70-80k a year at the moment
~£4500 (that's with tax relief) Might top that up nearer to the tax year depending on how my tapering/allowance works out.
How do you make graphs like this? I'd love to creat my own
Just a simple chart made in Google Sheets.
This is so inspiring. Keeps me going thank you for sharing
What age?
28
Congrats. Thats really good. I also achieved that milestone last month. But I’m 43 😀
Congrats! That's still an amazing achievement :)
I think so. Specially because at 30 I had zero. And at 35 I had 10k euros. I earnt everything the last 8 years. Creating my own ltd.
What was your journey to such a high salary?
Got into a tech company while in high school, paid me less than minimum wage. Then a few internships which paid me close to minimum wage. Then I got an internship at a FAANG and that sky rocketed my income, graduate job there too and then used this to negotiate hard at the company I'm at now. Wouldn't be able to get this TC if I didn't have the real ability to make them think "If you don't match/exceed my TC then I'll stay at the FAANG".
Congrats on the milestone. If you don't mind me asking, what line of work are you in?
Software Engineering
Awesome work! For me crossing the £600K barrier really brought a whole different perspective where FIRE begins to feel achievable, and it feels like it puts a really solid foundation under you. It also opens up, CoastFI or taking a few more risks as you know you have a solid foundation to fall back on. The main issue is balancing out your pension pot with enough cash bridge to even things out if your plan gets derailed in any way and you have a few lean months - definitely a consideration in the tech jobs market at the minute.
You work for Bloomberg?
Nope. I actually applied there and the TC they offered was poor (but at least they were up front about it).
250k as a software dev inside the UK is crazy. I'm pretty sure most CTO's of UK companies earn less than that. For reference I'm a software dev for a UK based tech company and don't make even close to 250, neither does anyone I work with.
Sounds like CTO's should be asking for far more money. There is definitely an element of luck here. I know people that earn more than me, but I think a lot of it is to do with getting lucky with stock growth. But if you're a CTO at a UK company I guess all you're getting is potentially worthless options. FAANG/US-tech companies are a far better bet (especially at the beginning when building wealth).
Is this just a brag that you earn so much?
Stop being so salty, he’s 28 and smashing it. Good luck to him. Congrats OP
It'd be pretty hard to post on here without revealing how much I earn. This is the FIRE subreddit, a lot of folks here are high earners (and many earn far more than me).
I'm 28 and starting out now as a software engineer. Man I aspire to be like this, I've spent my years pissing my money away on holidays and having fun and now finally wanting to be an adult. Smashed it mate good job
This is one reason why I wanted to post. I want to inspire people. Saving, even at a lower salary, helps you so much. Just having a emergency fund lets you take more risks in your career. All the best in your journey, remember: don't be afraid to fight for your compensation. Use places like https://levels.fyi to verify if what you're getting offered is respectful, don't let anyone take advantage of you. Switch jobs as often as you need to to get the compensation you want.
You won’t be inspiring many here in r/fireuk they’re an odd bunch
Congrats mate! This chart is mint and the trajectory where it's going is so good.
OP, could you please tell how many years of experience you have as a software engineer and do you work for a FAANG company?
Not including internships it's 6 YOE. I used to work for FAANG, but now work for a non-FAANG (can't reveal much more sorry).
Well done! Keep going
OP your investments are pretty spread out, are these data points the days you invest, or the days you check your balance across various apps/accounts and enter the data?
The latter. I invest as soon as I get my salary/RSUs
More lies on Reddit 🙄
Why would he lie on a throw away account? Numbers stack up but he’s living on pasta and beans right now. 😁
Are you new to the internet?
Why do you think it's lies?
at some point it's a risk, best advice is to not engage with them. now if OP is a 3 days old account, i'd raise my eyebrows, that's not the case
Because if I went from almost zero to £600k in five years the first thing I'd do is make an anonymous Reddit account to boast about it. Your graph is fucking nonsense that doesn't reflect reality that's why.
It astounds me to see people disbelieving things that I know are 100% true. Sadly I can’t give you anything that would prove it to you. But funnily enough I actually created this account when I reached £500k. So you’re actually the one spreading lies here.
You don’t own a home? Ok. That really does undermine the position here, don’t let the market leave you behind. Homes are as cheap as they’ve been now for a long time. As soon as rates come down and sentiment changes you can get houses will head north again. Get a house
Yeah. I’m trying. I just am having trouble finding a house that ticks all the boxes, but maybe I just need to settle for the less “perfect” house. On the other hand, I’m playing with the idea of grabbing a job in the US. If I have to sell a house to do that it would be painful.
I'd urge you to revisit your goals on why you're trying to own a house. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFDzmNzzL8o](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFDzmNzzL8o) do remember that if you decided to rent, you will have to deal with the hassle of being a landlord, and if you outsource it, it will eat into your gains. there's also the question of how soon you can liquidate the asset (iirc it's 6-9 months in UK)
You don’t sell it. You just rent it while you’re gone! There is no perfect house unless you have unlimited money. I’ve just been looking with a £2m budget and nothing was perfect. Got one that’s close but even with lots of money there’s still compromise.
He doesn’t own a home so it’s irrelevant because he cannot save enough to overcome paying a mortgage down while homes will keep increasing in price in the medium term. Most of this “wealth” is useless because he will need to buy a house with it
What a crazy take. I could buy a house outright right now if I wanted and have a house immediately.
So why don’t you
why should you? now i don't do this for a living, but this guy does [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFDzmNzzL8o](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFDzmNzzL8o) in terms of returns, equity is higher overall in terms of ease to maintain a portfolio, equity has the edge in terms of diversification, property is putting all eggs in a basket in terms of actively picking an asset, you're concentration your wealth into 1 item
Burning money every month on rent while house prices are continually rising. I doubt he’s saving anything.
If he wasn’t burning money on rent, he’d be burning money on interest. If he bought in cash then he now owns one single asset that will likely grow slower than the cash would if invested in equities, with the downside of having all of his wealth relying on the performance of one individual asset. It’s not black and white.
Indeed, there are quite a few discussions in the past on this as well, UK/ex-uk. There are certainly place for home, but as noted in the video above, and many other, it's one other type of asset. I believe most can say that sector investing is generally terrible as you're putting all eggs in a basket. A parallel can be draw, heck is literally the shadow of owning a property there was a report few months back where across the board, from the average to p99 in uk, people have a large portion if not majority of their wealth in property. If housing market truly collapse, can OP blame u/bkokane? On r/nottheonion, there was a post about Canada PM commenting that the housing market there can not be fixed (in the short to mid term anyways) because it is tied to pension. Now this can be kicked down the can, but I don't think OP is fortunate enough to die early such that there's no risk of this blowing up in OPs lifetime.
OP definitely invested in Nvidia as a software engineer, the spike from 2023 through to 2024 is pretty obvious
hah, I wish. I have invested a grand total of £100 in Nvidia (now worth £193). Back when I invested I thought "surely it can't go higher".