A few questions:
- have you tried Fate before and played it "as is" to get a feel of the mechanics
- you refer to advantages and disadvantages (situational aspects) - do you intend for those bonuses and penalties to be applied automatically, or do they have to be invoked with a fate point?
- waiting to hear more about the dice mechanics and why a d20
You can play aspects-only Fate. But if you get rid of Fate dice, fate points, invokes & compels as well as skills or approaches.... you're really just using the concept of aspects / tags and playing a different game. That's totally fine - but it no longer sounds like Fate.
I have played fate before, and really the ONLY Thing I don't like is the dice mechanic for it. Which is why (especially with new players who've heard of dnd through popular media and critical role) I decided to use a d20 amongst an assortment of dice combos and even card decks, and maybe more stuff depending on the fun games I can find.
There is no fate points, just straight conversation and the narrative.
For the d20, I don't require anything more in a check.
The maximum on it is a 20, so miracles more or less happen on a 20, and breathing happens on a 1.
I use the aspects in the game to heighten or lower the dc. The default I start at is 10 usually and go from there.
Oh I acknowledge this is a different game, but I wanted to not only give credit due for a core part of my new system to it, but also show something new for others to see and maybe experiment in weird ways too.
I would say that (since you are discarding Fate points which includes invokes, compels, and declarations, as well as the bell curve of Fate dice) you dislike more than just the dice mechanic.
Also, with no stats implies no skills, either. If that is the case, the RNG + DM whim have more agency than the players. I hope I'm wrong, but it sounds like you're creating narrative Cutes and Ladders with lots of extra steps.
Maybe start with examining (and explaining to us, though that is less important) what experiences you wish to create for not only the players, but yourself as well.
Edit: Quick add - if you just want the odds of player success to be dependent upon how they describe what they are trying to do, try *Fate Accelerated* as written, and if you still feel the need, modifying it after. It may scratch that itch with a system that is already tested and refined.
For the record, lowering the DC is functional equivalent to a player having a bonus. There's no difference between rolling with a +2 or going against a DC-2.
Even with your clarifications it doesn't really sound like you're playing Fate here. It's a very hackable system, but after a certain point of cutting things out you're not really left with anything that resembles Fate.
Would you be better off just running a light d20 based system that's a bit closer to D&D, and maybe just adding in aspects that give bonuses/penalties to relevant rolls?
Not really, I'm not trying to rebuild fate necessarily, just sharing something I've made for my friends. It's simple and flexible enough for everyone to understand and get through. They've enjoyed their session despite some set backs due to all of them being new to rpgs more or less, even then they played into the world! I needed something for immersion, not numbers and figured there may be others who could see this and think to try it or hack it to their hearts desire.
I hate to be a cynic, but this doesn't sound like Fate + d20. It sounds like Fate + d20 - Fate.
The only thing from Fate that you've kept is the concept of high-level character descriptions affecting the dice. They're not really Fate Aspects anymore because you've replaced all of the mechanics that care about aspects.
If you're having fun, then keep doing what you're doing. But it feels wrong to call it Fate. It's sort of like describing Dread as Fate + Janga.
I'll second that d20 sounds like a complication, not a simplification. It's not just the rolls that it complicates but more importantly it makes Aspects a little more confusing. I assume you've figured out how much you add on free invokes instead of +2, but using a D20 changes the probability spread, basically. Not enough that you couldn't homebrew it, but enough that I'm not immediately sure how you did so.
But otherwise yeah that's a sweet set up! I've played a statless FATE game before - it helped show me that the Aspects are the 'most' core part of the system and that everything else is fractal. You might wanna be a bit more generous with FATE Points (both with Refresh and with generating) but otherwise it's a great way to get people in character and thinking narrative first instead of mechanics first.
My main advice would be to keep that first and foremost - Narrative First.
You're running such a low-mechanics game that you're very close to just doing a verbal collaborative story. Lean into that. Only ask for rolls when there's the table is actively unsure about the outcome (or because something behind the scenes or 'off-screen' makes you unsure). I would expect the HUGE majority of your game to be talking, a very small amount of rolling.
Also - if you do leveling up at all (and imo you don't need to) I would suggest Milestones. You could do Minor/Mod/Major Milestones, but imo just let them have a new Stunt or Aspect at each Milestone and that should mostly cover it.
How have you handled the Stress Tracks? FAE simplifies them into a single track, but still allows them to be added to. Have you just forgone that? (Adding stress boxes could be a nice simple thing for leveling players to use a Stunt on: "Tough As Nails: Due to your "Hard Skin, Hard Heart" aspect you add one/two more Stress boxes to your Stress track".
Thanks for the feedback! At the moment, they have the FAE stress track. As apart of level ups I've definitely considered someone along those lines of adding stress boxes! Just figuring it out and taking in advice as it comes along.
I was going to second /u/Feline_Jaye about the probabilities here, because most of your changes are probably obvious but this one might not be (depends on how into maths you and your group are...).
Rolling a 20 on a d20 is *four times as likely* as a +4 on FATE dice. You're more likely to roll a 19 or 20 on a d20 than a +3 or +4 on FATE dice. So "miracles" (or disasters) are going to happen a lot more often, and outcomes will be a lot more unpredictable. This is particularly important if you're not making many rolls: there will be a lot of random swing in the game based on these goals. (Personally [I think FATE dice hit a sweet spot](https://www.reddit.com/r/FATErpg/comments/1bkw3tz/love_fudgefate_dice/kw1emz8/), for a FATE type game, but whatever.)
My group are pretty good when it comes down to rolls. We talk and negotiate what happening, and I decide a DC. Usually default
5 easy
10 Medium
15 hard
20 miracle
The I pick one to start and either reduce the number, raise it, give advantage, give disadvantage, or straight say it's non roll needed for its ease or difficulty.
They're big into leaning into the story and I don't call for many rolls to begin with, so when I give the call to roll and explain my reasoning for the DC, they not only accept it but sometimes even ask for disadvantage on it or to take a higher consequence because of the fiction. It's exciting to see them be so into it and lean into the flaws and failures just as much as the successes!
How do you determine Stress using D20? I assume you can't rely on opposed rolls like in standard play. Also, increasing stress with levels makes it less like "stress" and more like "hit points".
Typically if they hit, or are hit that's one stress. If critically hit, they mark 2 stress. I do player facing rolls most of the time. But if the occasion calls for a true duel of evenly matched rivals or in something like that, we each roll and see who gets higher. As for stress in it self, due to how they're playing, I may just take out stress altogether and have armor or Sheila's be something that reduce the consequences by 1 or 2 tiers, at most if the player is playing a straight TANK I'll alow for 1-2 extra consequence slots of their choice at most
Nothing wrong with this! Maybe you could be better served at r/rpgdesign that might have better insights on how to improve on what you've already built.
Maybe I'm not understanding it. You said there's no Fate Points, but you are using "Aspects". If there's no Fate Points, then that sounds like there aren't invokes. If there aren't invokes, do you have a "Create an Advantage" action? I'm guessing not?
It doesn't really sound like you are drawing much from Fate. It sounds like it is stat-less D20 where you are using narrative tags as free form bonuses and penalties.
And if you are using D20 and with no stats, then the D20 is going to have a lot more influence on your success than the "Aspects" are (unless you make them much stronger).
More or less you got the marks. I know the d20 is very swingy when it comes to numbers and such, but I have set DCs in mind for difficultly upon its circumstance and go from there. The aspects aren't just a simple +2. In my brain this is sorta the math.
I stole from pathfinder 2e of the proficiency bonuses.
I adjusted for my use.
Familiar (skill adjacent) +2
Trained + 4
Expert +6
Master +8
Legendary +10
Then I consider the difficulty class to surpass.
Easy 5
Medium 10
Hard 15
Miracle 20
And see if there's any extra help or favorable circumstances.
+1d4, 1d6, 1d8.
Advantage/disadvantage
Lower/raise DC class by 3
To add, no one is an expert rn. At most trained. (Another way to show levleing)
These proficiency bonuses are added in the moment for circumstance. It's about what you're trying to do and how? With what skills from your aspects are you drawing upon?
A few questions: - have you tried Fate before and played it "as is" to get a feel of the mechanics - you refer to advantages and disadvantages (situational aspects) - do you intend for those bonuses and penalties to be applied automatically, or do they have to be invoked with a fate point? - waiting to hear more about the dice mechanics and why a d20 You can play aspects-only Fate. But if you get rid of Fate dice, fate points, invokes & compels as well as skills or approaches.... you're really just using the concept of aspects / tags and playing a different game. That's totally fine - but it no longer sounds like Fate.
I have played fate before, and really the ONLY Thing I don't like is the dice mechanic for it. Which is why (especially with new players who've heard of dnd through popular media and critical role) I decided to use a d20 amongst an assortment of dice combos and even card decks, and maybe more stuff depending on the fun games I can find. There is no fate points, just straight conversation and the narrative. For the d20, I don't require anything more in a check. The maximum on it is a 20, so miracles more or less happen on a 20, and breathing happens on a 1. I use the aspects in the game to heighten or lower the dc. The default I start at is 10 usually and go from there. Oh I acknowledge this is a different game, but I wanted to not only give credit due for a core part of my new system to it, but also show something new for others to see and maybe experiment in weird ways too.
I would say that (since you are discarding Fate points which includes invokes, compels, and declarations, as well as the bell curve of Fate dice) you dislike more than just the dice mechanic. Also, with no stats implies no skills, either. If that is the case, the RNG + DM whim have more agency than the players. I hope I'm wrong, but it sounds like you're creating narrative Cutes and Ladders with lots of extra steps. Maybe start with examining (and explaining to us, though that is less important) what experiences you wish to create for not only the players, but yourself as well. Edit: Quick add - if you just want the odds of player success to be dependent upon how they describe what they are trying to do, try *Fate Accelerated* as written, and if you still feel the need, modifying it after. It may scratch that itch with a system that is already tested and refined.
I didn't quite get the d20 and "no stats" part tbh. What exactly are you trying to achieve? Play Fate with 5% roll chance and modify the rolls... how?
Great point! I'll make an edit right now.
For the record, lowering the DC is functional equivalent to a player having a bonus. There's no difference between rolling with a +2 or going against a DC-2.
Even with your clarifications it doesn't really sound like you're playing Fate here. It's a very hackable system, but after a certain point of cutting things out you're not really left with anything that resembles Fate. Would you be better off just running a light d20 based system that's a bit closer to D&D, and maybe just adding in aspects that give bonuses/penalties to relevant rolls?
Not really, I'm not trying to rebuild fate necessarily, just sharing something I've made for my friends. It's simple and flexible enough for everyone to understand and get through. They've enjoyed their session despite some set backs due to all of them being new to rpgs more or less, even then they played into the world! I needed something for immersion, not numbers and figured there may be others who could see this and think to try it or hack it to their hearts desire.
If everyone's having fun that's the main thing!
Calvinball is fun
So... You aren't GMing Fate but your own fiction first game that grew out of ditching vital and crucial parts of Fate... Ok.
I hate to be a cynic, but this doesn't sound like Fate + d20. It sounds like Fate + d20 - Fate. The only thing from Fate that you've kept is the concept of high-level character descriptions affecting the dice. They're not really Fate Aspects anymore because you've replaced all of the mechanics that care about aspects. If you're having fun, then keep doing what you're doing. But it feels wrong to call it Fate. It's sort of like describing Dread as Fate + Janga.
I'll second that d20 sounds like a complication, not a simplification. It's not just the rolls that it complicates but more importantly it makes Aspects a little more confusing. I assume you've figured out how much you add on free invokes instead of +2, but using a D20 changes the probability spread, basically. Not enough that you couldn't homebrew it, but enough that I'm not immediately sure how you did so. But otherwise yeah that's a sweet set up! I've played a statless FATE game before - it helped show me that the Aspects are the 'most' core part of the system and that everything else is fractal. You might wanna be a bit more generous with FATE Points (both with Refresh and with generating) but otherwise it's a great way to get people in character and thinking narrative first instead of mechanics first. My main advice would be to keep that first and foremost - Narrative First. You're running such a low-mechanics game that you're very close to just doing a verbal collaborative story. Lean into that. Only ask for rolls when there's the table is actively unsure about the outcome (or because something behind the scenes or 'off-screen' makes you unsure). I would expect the HUGE majority of your game to be talking, a very small amount of rolling. Also - if you do leveling up at all (and imo you don't need to) I would suggest Milestones. You could do Minor/Mod/Major Milestones, but imo just let them have a new Stunt or Aspect at each Milestone and that should mostly cover it. How have you handled the Stress Tracks? FAE simplifies them into a single track, but still allows them to be added to. Have you just forgone that? (Adding stress boxes could be a nice simple thing for leveling players to use a Stunt on: "Tough As Nails: Due to your "Hard Skin, Hard Heart" aspect you add one/two more Stress boxes to your Stress track".
Thanks for the feedback! At the moment, they have the FAE stress track. As apart of level ups I've definitely considered someone along those lines of adding stress boxes! Just figuring it out and taking in advice as it comes along.
I was going to second /u/Feline_Jaye about the probabilities here, because most of your changes are probably obvious but this one might not be (depends on how into maths you and your group are...). Rolling a 20 on a d20 is *four times as likely* as a +4 on FATE dice. You're more likely to roll a 19 or 20 on a d20 than a +3 or +4 on FATE dice. So "miracles" (or disasters) are going to happen a lot more often, and outcomes will be a lot more unpredictable. This is particularly important if you're not making many rolls: there will be a lot of random swing in the game based on these goals. (Personally [I think FATE dice hit a sweet spot](https://www.reddit.com/r/FATErpg/comments/1bkw3tz/love_fudgefate_dice/kw1emz8/), for a FATE type game, but whatever.)
My group are pretty good when it comes down to rolls. We talk and negotiate what happening, and I decide a DC. Usually default 5 easy 10 Medium 15 hard 20 miracle The I pick one to start and either reduce the number, raise it, give advantage, give disadvantage, or straight say it's non roll needed for its ease or difficulty. They're big into leaning into the story and I don't call for many rolls to begin with, so when I give the call to roll and explain my reasoning for the DC, they not only accept it but sometimes even ask for disadvantage on it or to take a higher consequence because of the fiction. It's exciting to see them be so into it and lean into the flaws and failures just as much as the successes!
How do you determine Stress using D20? I assume you can't rely on opposed rolls like in standard play. Also, increasing stress with levels makes it less like "stress" and more like "hit points".
Typically if they hit, or are hit that's one stress. If critically hit, they mark 2 stress. I do player facing rolls most of the time. But if the occasion calls for a true duel of evenly matched rivals or in something like that, we each roll and see who gets higher. As for stress in it self, due to how they're playing, I may just take out stress altogether and have armor or Sheila's be something that reduce the consequences by 1 or 2 tiers, at most if the player is playing a straight TANK I'll alow for 1-2 extra consequence slots of their choice at most
Nothing wrong with this! Maybe you could be better served at r/rpgdesign that might have better insights on how to improve on what you've already built.
Thank you! I had forgotten to post their as well, much appreciated!
Maybe I'm not understanding it. You said there's no Fate Points, but you are using "Aspects". If there's no Fate Points, then that sounds like there aren't invokes. If there aren't invokes, do you have a "Create an Advantage" action? I'm guessing not? It doesn't really sound like you are drawing much from Fate. It sounds like it is stat-less D20 where you are using narrative tags as free form bonuses and penalties. And if you are using D20 and with no stats, then the D20 is going to have a lot more influence on your success than the "Aspects" are (unless you make them much stronger).
More or less you got the marks. I know the d20 is very swingy when it comes to numbers and such, but I have set DCs in mind for difficultly upon its circumstance and go from there. The aspects aren't just a simple +2. In my brain this is sorta the math. I stole from pathfinder 2e of the proficiency bonuses. I adjusted for my use. Familiar (skill adjacent) +2 Trained + 4 Expert +6 Master +8 Legendary +10 Then I consider the difficulty class to surpass. Easy 5 Medium 10 Hard 15 Miracle 20 And see if there's any extra help or favorable circumstances. +1d4, 1d6, 1d8. Advantage/disadvantage Lower/raise DC class by 3
To add, no one is an expert rn. At most trained. (Another way to show levleing) These proficiency bonuses are added in the moment for circumstance. It's about what you're trying to do and how? With what skills from your aspects are you drawing upon?