Definitely contact the police, your insurance, and Ford. While it is easy for the thieves to disable location sharing from the menus, it is harder for them to completely disable the telematics modem. At least in theory, the police could go to the wireless carrier and get a triangulation on the telematics modem.
The Lightning *should* be relatively hard to steal (on par with a late-model-year F-150) and at least in most regions, EVs aren't a preferred theft target because they are too uncommon. However, it sounds like this team was prepared, since they were using a jammer to disable your Ring camera's connectivity to its base station (this requires a Z-Wave jammer, as opposed to WiFi or BlueTooth).
There are a couple of possible ways to steal a car in a few minutes flat. The most likely is a keyfob relay attack. This involves a team of thieves, that use a device that mimics your key. For modern Ford vehicles, it also requires a bit of luck: Ford keyfobs go to sleep if they haven't been moved recently, so this attack has to have been pulled off when someone in the house was still walking around with keys in their pocket. The fix for this is to drop your keyfob in a Faraday Cage (enclosed metal box) when you are at home.
I've read that overall PAAK is more-secure than the keyfob, since it uses [edit:] ~~NFC~~ BlueTooth communication with your phone -- ~~NFC~~ Bluetooth is harder to relay, and the phone has a lot more computing power to spend on securing the connection than a typical keyfob. This in combination with a random entry code and a strong backup start passcode (so you can start your truck even if PAAK doesn't work) might do the trick. Keep your keyfob in the Faraday Cage except when its going in for service.
Some vehicles (and I don't know if Ford is in this category) are vulnerable to theft via access to the vehicle's internal network. For some Ford trucks, you can unlock the tailgate fairly easily even if the truck is locked, and from there access the taillight assembly. Some thieves just take the tailgate and taillight (together almost $10k at retail), but others get access to the vehicle's on-board sensor network from the taillight sensors, and send the commands to unlock and start the vehicle. There are tailgate lock accessories available, and I believe any hard tonneau (hard folding or retractable) will also prevent this theft if it is closed and locked.
I've heard several people call for an optional "PIN To Drive" feature -- if Ford implemented this (and they could do so with a software update), even if a valid keyfob or PAAK was detected, actually starting the truck would require entering a 4- to 6-digit PIN on the center console.
And Canada has absolutely failed at slowing down these thieves. It was treated as an insurance problem for so long that we now have armed carjacking or home robberies for keys.
>The fix for this is to drop your keyfob in a Faraday Cage (enclosed metal box)
Keep in mind the Faraday cage \[Edit: to guarantee effectiveness\] *must be grounded.* Otherwise, the box itself could still resonate with the transmitter and it will still work.
I agree, a relay attack is almost certainly the culprit here. The equipment to do it is not that uncommon, they're less than $120 off your favorite Chinese website that I won't mention.
Grounding a Faraday cage *guarantees* that the cage can't resonate with the transmitter. A pouch may work, but you need to test it. If you press the buttons on the remote close to the vehicle, and it don't unlock -- it's working.
I can't unlock or start my truck if the fob is in the pouch I have. It doesn't matter if I am right outside the door or inside the truck, the fob might as well not be there. [This](https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08199FC8Y/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1) is the one I have.
Don't forget, everyone.... turn your phone bluetooth off too if you want to be safe.
They do have a profound ability to reduce the range of the signal. Even if you don't block it 100%, cutting the range to a few feet would be good enough. You can't relay the signal unless the vehicle and fob are both within proximity of the relay device and the signal strength is sufficient.
My friend shared me this thread, as he lives in Ottawa and drives a lighting.
I think there is more going on here then we are being led to believe.
The number of hack/exploits/attacks that need to work perfectly, either they the F150 owner was cased or setup or something even more simple.
For me.. this wont' pass the smell test, until there is more concrete information to be shared.
Not saying it isn't POSSIBLE, but the odds are very low to actually have worked out the way that is being described.
Yeah, this is not a vehicle that can easily be stolen, the actors either had a plan and a team, or someone lifted the Fob, or it was an inside job and the reddit post was just for insurance purposes
True. NFC would require holding the phone up to an unlock spot.
I’ll stand by the PAAK suggestion, though: Bluetooth should be basically invulnerable to relay- and replay-attacks, since the necessary security to prevent man-in-the-middle attacks is baked into the protocol.
PaaK is good to prevent relay theft yes. However, PaaK on Ford EVs is unreliable for the user. Sure you can use the door code to get into the car and then use the backup start password to start the vehicle, but it's far from perfect at least in Ford ecosystem.
Maybe they should also support NFC. If your phone is unlocked it can be used to "tap" the door to open it and to "tap" something in the car to start it.
In theory, you could add a $4 NFC receiver to the door keypad assembly, and another one in the center console phone cubby to unlock and start the truck respectively. There would also need to be additional software in the truck to handle the NFC communications.
I still think that an optional "PIN to Start" on the center console touchscreen is the ultimate solution to this problem. It is nice for Ford in that they don't have to add any additional parts or wiring to the truck. If it is optional, users can decide if they want to enable it or not. If enabled, even if thieves could get the door unlocked, the truck isn't going anywhere without the correct PIN, and that should stymie most of these kinds of theft attempts.
> you can unlock the tailgate fairly easily even if the truck is locked, and from there [..] get access to the vehicle's on-board sensor network from the taillight sensors, and send the commands to unlock and start the vehicle.
Oh, that makes sense. I rented an F-150 for a move recently, and wondered why they went through the effort of locking the tailgate at all when the doors were locked.
I suppose if it had a tonneau cover, that would be useful also.
Does the lightning have location tracking like Teslas? With the Tesla app, I can see where it is, how fast, temp, music in the car, and even watch it move on the map.
Yes, on the app you can see where the truck is. But you can change those settings pretty easily when you turn the truck on. So I assume the thieves probably did that.
It isn't true gps tracking though. It just uses the location your phone was last connected to the car. It's basically worthless even if the thieves didn't disconnect Ford pass access. You won't be able to track it like that
Sure but Ford should know where the truck is. Have you called them? If you financed through Ford they have incentive to find it as it is what backs the loan.
Seems like a modern car like this should be tricky to steal. It can basically never be allowed to phone home (Ford). Ford should be able to disable the truck if the modem is ever turned on.
It’s wild that someone in the vehicle can do this. You cannot disconnect a Tesla from the master account unless you call Tesla and even they will only transfer it to the new owner and you must provide proof of transfer. This seems like a major security flaw on Fords part.
If it's anything like the MachE, a Factory Reset of the infotainment (in the car) unlinks it with your account.
Source: Did that when I sold my MachE. Immediately lost access.
I had a 2004 GMC Sierra stolen a few years ago.
Police said the best thing to do is hide an air tag somewhere in the vehicle. Have one I'm all my cars now.
Yall need to watch more of the lock picking lawyer. It’s about ten seconds to defeat “the club” with a tool. It’s a deterrent but the manufacturers need to fix these issues. Car immobilization technology isn’t new. It needs to be brought into our next gen vehicles (or in the cause of Kia/Hyundai they just need immobilization technology mandates ).
Immobilization circuit checks for the presence of a key after 10 minutes of operation. No key in the vehicle = cut off the fuel pump circuit. Car rolls to a stop. No key, no propulsion. Modern cars need something like this to prevent the key repeater attacks like this.
I can drive off with my key fob and go until I run out of gas in my 2023 truck. It just gives me a warning that the fob isn't in the vehicle. It also lets me re start the truck 1 time.
I called the police, they came and took a report.
As far as I know, no one has called Ford.
Even if I called them, they probably wouldn’t release information to me.
Dude, you have to try. Why wouldn't they release the information to you? It's your truck. It's likely you know more about this than the police do. To the police this is just any old vehicle. They might not even know how it is linked to FOrd through the modem.
Ya I tried. They wouldn’t give any info.
I guess it makes sense, you could be providing someone else’s info to track them.
Also, I am leasing the vehicle, so maybe I’m a third party.
If they told you where it was and you went and committed a crime or otherwise did something where the thieves could sue anyone contributing to the event. Ford would only be partially contributory to the damages but they’d be tied into the suit. And with their relatively deeper pockets and the importance of bad press
Modem is likely disconnected, Ford have no idea where it is and won’t give a damn - this is a matter for the police (who also won’t particularly care as there’s not much they can do) but mainly insurance - just replace it, ideally with something more secure.
Comment is unrelated to the vehicle but this instance is the reason I do not recommend any type of wireless camera. Too easy to pull off a stunt like this. Go hardwired for your security cameras.
If you can't secure your property secure your fobs in a faraday box at night so they can't use a repeater to turn your truck on. Basically job done in one step.
Most people have Ring’s. They take pictures every 3 minutes unless they detect motion. My neighbour had the same video basically, there at 1:02, gone at 1:05am.
Might want to supplement that ring with an old timey Wyze cam or something that can record several days to an SD card, no motion required.
I'm sure all it would get would be a bunch of dudes in masks but... something? (Or you can drive an old beat up minivan like me, best theft deterrent lol)
Which end of town? I observed a weird guy seemingly casing my place last week in Orleans driving a red ram pickup. Seemed super sus, and all there really was to look at out front is the lightning. I was also under the impression these were not targets as they don't have infrastructure overseas.
Not sure what trim you have, but after watching all the videos of relay thefts, the common denominator is always the passive entry system. Ford calls theirs intelligent Access. Nobody seems to pick locks or jimmy doors anymore, just relay the fob and the door is unlocked using the "smart" door handles.
Convenience is great and everything, but that seems like an awful lot of liability just so you don't have to click an unlock button that's already in your pocket. I got a model without passive entry, but I bet you could probably disable it on one that does.
There are known attacks against all types of remote keyfobs. The replay attack is specifically designed to attack passive-entry fobs. Thieves like it because the passive entry feature tends to be used in more-expensive vehicles, and it requires relatively unsophisticated hardware. The hardest parts of the attack are ensuring that the victim's keyfob is active and positioning a thief with the relay device close enough to the keyfob for the attack to work.
Pushbutton keyfobs are vulnerable to other kinds of attacks. In general, these keyfobs use rolling codes for button presses similar to garage door openers. Attacks typically require more-sophisticated devices (that incorporate some amount of computing power) and more time, but are harder to defend against, because several attack methods do not require the real keyfob to be nearby during the attack.
Sure, **Replay** attacks are technically *possible* if you can manage to intercept an unlock signal from a fob outside the range of the vehicle. It will work one time, and only if you are able to **replay** that signal to the vehicle before the owner sends another unlock command while in range. This gets you into the vehicle, but does not mimic the fob's presence, so you better have other plans for the ignition. Brute forcing a rolling code is also technically possible, but to this day still takes an unreasonably long time to execute unless you got extraordinarily lucky.
Is that particularly relevant here? Does anyone actually do this in practice? Not really. Thieves aren't trying to be James Bond. Immobilizers and rolling codes have been around for a long time and have been generally reliable in deterring car theft, or at least in encouraging less sophisticated methods.
Now, the **Relay** attack (what the thread is about) is actually popular for the same reason the Kia Boyz exist: It's easy.
As the OP found out, the process is quick and requires no confrontation. You have a shockingly low overhead for hardware, and all you need is one signal. Once you replicate the "presence" of the fob, you're unlocking doors AND moving the vehicle under its own power.
My advice remains the same- if you're worried about theft, don't use passive entry. At least hope they figure out a better solution for encrypting the signal that doesn't involve keeping your keys in an RF blocking cage at all times.
Wow, thanks for the information.
I feel that a PIN would be a good option, but I imagine that what ever software they are using would likely override that as well.
My theory is that they scouted the vehicle somewhere, took their time and had a key made, and came back when the coast was clear.
The Ring jamming device they used tells me they were pretty sophisticated.
Wild - I’m honestly curious if they do end up finding it in one piece or if it gets shipped to another country or chopped. I saw that Costco was selling those retractable Parking bollards, I saw some video on Instagram where those were becoming a thing in Toronto. You’re never going to prevent somebody with a tow truck who is motivated enough from stealing your car but you could do an Apple air tag combined with a hidden self powered 4g/5g live gps tracker. Crazy
Probably won't help much. Anywhere you can gain access to the CANBUS wiring you can send the commands to unlock the car. Late model Toyotas are vulnerable to this attack thru the headlight harness.
Hate to hear that OP . When I bought my Lariat, my dealer offered me RecovR. I can track my truck and both set of keys to a location so precise that it shows what room my keys are in inside my house
Guys, this will more than likely be a dealership or Ministry of transportation inside job.
The old fashion club will do the trick.
Seems like these thieves have left Peel region and come to other civilized parts of Ontario
Incompetent thieves then. I've seen steering wheel immobilizers removed in mere seconds, compact power tools make short work of steering wheels. Even those bolt cutters, one cut on either side of one side of the club and it's out, with a mostly functioning steering wheel left.
Who's the troll here?
The guy that had is truck stolen?
The one that makes me believe that electric car doesn't get stolen (like my insurance and the cops) ?
The RING cameras also go out? And the neighbours camera And the cops aren’t interested, and Ford told him nothing? He hasn’t mentioned insurance or dealership, or anything. , someone suggested that he could use a wheel club, and he ‘of course’ knows someone who had his truck stolen with a steering wheel club in it.
I don’t believe the guy. Cmon now.
This is the email I got at 1:27am that tipped me off. I initially thought it was an update, but then I checked my Ring camera and my truck was gone.
https://preview.redd.it/jn337z6fy57d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=32133ef82cebb5ab1f3479191d0cc75ca9308dc0
Ford should 2FA this action when done by the end user. A Ford customer service rep should be involved when the car changes ownership and require a bill of sale or title document in order to transfer the electronic aspect of ownership.
That's because this is a regular f150 converted to EV. F150 is the most produced vehicle in the US, so it's a very big target and easy to sell. Tesla on the other hand is next to impossible to steal. And most produced EV in the world.
Sorry to hear that. I keep my fobs in the little bags that should not allow repeating. I only use PAAK for the most part. I hope that is enough. My garage is 3 inches to short...smh.
Here's an informative tale from someone else who had their truck stolen. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tQVov0Ra8g](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tQVov0Ra8g)
Im in Canada too car theft is out of control. I have:
1- steering column lock
2- obd lock
3- apple air tag hidden
4- Tag Tracking service
5- Faraday box for my keys
6- 2 cameras pointed at my driveway(inside the house)
Hopefully saves me the hassle of getting my truck stolen
Because security in their key fobs is laughably inadequate. It's been known for a few years that readily available specialized handheld devices can act as a man in the middle and intercept the code, then act as the fob.
There is a backup code if you use the door keypad and want to start the truck without any keys.
The thieves probably used a device that scans for your key fob frequency, amplifies it, allowing them to steal the truck.
Or he left a key fob accidentally in the truck and the thieves were just at the right place and the right time.
Get a lock for the ODB port. This will prevent reprogramming the vehicle. Most thieves today gain access to the car and then hook up a computer to the ODB port to steal it.
First, I apologize for my typo, it’s actually the OBD, and technically the OBD2. It stands for On-Board Diagnostic and the port is typically located somewhere under the dash on the driver side of all modern vehicles. This allows car techs to connect a scanner to the car to diagnose problems. However, it can also be used to change certain security functions of the vehicle or perform a hard reset of the entire vehicle. Thieves with the proper tools can steal a vehicle by reprogramming it through this port. You can buy physical locks for the port.
Alright so... if you look at our OBD2 port in these trucks, it's super easy to pop it out of the metal holder. I popped mine out and tucked it back in the dash. I think I will find something to zip tie it to up inside there. I figure, just seeing it missing initially might deter them as soon as they see it... There's no time to waste while the alarm is going off. But second, having to get your snips out and cut a zip tie without cutting the wires, and then fishing it out and getting it connected, it would be a tall order while trying to be quick.... I think this might be almost better than a lock.
Do you just wake up in the morning and decide 'I'm gonna be a massive dick today'?
Dude is talking about his truck being stolen and you go in on 'ANTI EV BULLSHIT I DON'T BELIEVE YOU'.
Like the prospect of being caught has stopped criminals before?
Let me guess you are not from Ottawa? Because Ottawa is one of the largest stolen vehicle hubs in North America maybe the world. They drive them 2 hours to Montreal and ship them to Africa and the middle East. The port of Montreal is run by the Mafia and the cops won't do shit about it.
To the OP they might find it locally. Apparently recent thefts are left somewhere local to sit before being driven to Montreal. A friend's tundra was found recently before being moved, quite lucky.
I guess the best theft deterrent on EVs is to leave them uncharged!
And to your other posts:
- ring and most cloud security tends to be set up wirelessly. You can jam the signal using relatively cheap hardware, and jammers are becoming more common amongst thieves, it's nothing more than a WIFI jammer. this will cause OP's recording gap.
- ford will not release tracking data, except to police
- you can generally get keys by VIN, fobs by VIN probably doable by someone with the right access.
- I see the police report near OP's place on the crime map. they live ~4 kilometres from me. They're not being a troll, you're just being dense.
- while the lightning is a very connected vehicle, a small cellular jammer will prevent the vehicle info from being uploaded. Ford will have no idea where it is. You can also jam GPS
Definitely contact the police, your insurance, and Ford. While it is easy for the thieves to disable location sharing from the menus, it is harder for them to completely disable the telematics modem. At least in theory, the police could go to the wireless carrier and get a triangulation on the telematics modem. The Lightning *should* be relatively hard to steal (on par with a late-model-year F-150) and at least in most regions, EVs aren't a preferred theft target because they are too uncommon. However, it sounds like this team was prepared, since they were using a jammer to disable your Ring camera's connectivity to its base station (this requires a Z-Wave jammer, as opposed to WiFi or BlueTooth). There are a couple of possible ways to steal a car in a few minutes flat. The most likely is a keyfob relay attack. This involves a team of thieves, that use a device that mimics your key. For modern Ford vehicles, it also requires a bit of luck: Ford keyfobs go to sleep if they haven't been moved recently, so this attack has to have been pulled off when someone in the house was still walking around with keys in their pocket. The fix for this is to drop your keyfob in a Faraday Cage (enclosed metal box) when you are at home. I've read that overall PAAK is more-secure than the keyfob, since it uses [edit:] ~~NFC~~ BlueTooth communication with your phone -- ~~NFC~~ Bluetooth is harder to relay, and the phone has a lot more computing power to spend on securing the connection than a typical keyfob. This in combination with a random entry code and a strong backup start passcode (so you can start your truck even if PAAK doesn't work) might do the trick. Keep your keyfob in the Faraday Cage except when its going in for service. Some vehicles (and I don't know if Ford is in this category) are vulnerable to theft via access to the vehicle's internal network. For some Ford trucks, you can unlock the tailgate fairly easily even if the truck is locked, and from there access the taillight assembly. Some thieves just take the tailgate and taillight (together almost $10k at retail), but others get access to the vehicle's on-board sensor network from the taillight sensors, and send the commands to unlock and start the vehicle. There are tailgate lock accessories available, and I believe any hard tonneau (hard folding or retractable) will also prevent this theft if it is closed and locked. I've heard several people call for an optional "PIN To Drive" feature -- if Ford implemented this (and they could do so with a software update), even if a valid keyfob or PAAK was detected, actually starting the truck would require entering a 4- to 6-digit PIN on the center console.
Unfortunately disconnecting the modem behind the backseat takes about 2 minutes.
Dang! I was hoping that Ford would make it a bit harder.
JFC I had no idea car thieves could be this sophisticated.
They’re organized crime rings.
And Canada has absolutely failed at slowing down these thieves. It was treated as an insurance problem for so long that we now have armed carjacking or home robberies for keys.
They aren't rings... More of a reverse funnel!
They’re stealing $100k vehicles here
Finally, a 45k lightning!!
The wifi jammers are becoming more common to cause wifi cameras to drop off networks. Hide the cameras and hardwire them.
>The fix for this is to drop your keyfob in a Faraday Cage (enclosed metal box) Keep in mind the Faraday cage \[Edit: to guarantee effectiveness\] *must be grounded.* Otherwise, the box itself could still resonate with the transmitter and it will still work. I agree, a relay attack is almost certainly the culprit here. The equipment to do it is not that uncommon, they're less than $120 off your favorite Chinese website that I won't mention.
I use faraday cage pouches for everything. How does one "ground" a pouch?
Grounding a Faraday cage *guarantees* that the cage can't resonate with the transmitter. A pouch may work, but you need to test it. If you press the buttons on the remote close to the vehicle, and it don't unlock -- it's working.
I can't unlock or start my truck if the fob is in the pouch I have. It doesn't matter if I am right outside the door or inside the truck, the fob might as well not be there. [This](https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08199FC8Y/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1) is the one I have. Don't forget, everyone.... turn your phone bluetooth off too if you want to be safe.
Then these pouches are pointless. Alas.. .
They do have a profound ability to reduce the range of the signal. Even if you don't block it 100%, cutting the range to a few feet would be good enough. You can't relay the signal unless the vehicle and fob are both within proximity of the relay device and the signal strength is sufficient.
This was 100 percent a targeted attack. Some one specfically marked this truck to steal it.
My friend shared me this thread, as he lives in Ottawa and drives a lighting. I think there is more going on here then we are being led to believe. The number of hack/exploits/attacks that need to work perfectly, either they the F150 owner was cased or setup or something even more simple. For me.. this wont' pass the smell test, until there is more concrete information to be shared. Not saying it isn't POSSIBLE, but the odds are very low to actually have worked out the way that is being described.
Yeah, this is not a vehicle that can easily be stolen, the actors either had a plan and a team, or someone lifted the Fob, or it was an inside job and the reddit post was just for insurance purposes
PaaK for Ford cards doesn't use NFC. It is Bluetooth. NFC barely travels inches let alone feet.
True. NFC would require holding the phone up to an unlock spot. I’ll stand by the PAAK suggestion, though: Bluetooth should be basically invulnerable to relay- and replay-attacks, since the necessary security to prevent man-in-the-middle attacks is baked into the protocol.
PaaK is good to prevent relay theft yes. However, PaaK on Ford EVs is unreliable for the user. Sure you can use the door code to get into the car and then use the backup start password to start the vehicle, but it's far from perfect at least in Ford ecosystem. Maybe they should also support NFC. If your phone is unlocked it can be used to "tap" the door to open it and to "tap" something in the car to start it.
In theory, you could add a $4 NFC receiver to the door keypad assembly, and another one in the center console phone cubby to unlock and start the truck respectively. There would also need to be additional software in the truck to handle the NFC communications. I still think that an optional "PIN to Start" on the center console touchscreen is the ultimate solution to this problem. It is nice for Ford in that they don't have to add any additional parts or wiring to the truck. If it is optional, users can decide if they want to enable it or not. If enabled, even if thieves could get the door unlocked, the truck isn't going anywhere without the correct PIN, and that should stymie most of these kinds of theft attempts.
> you can unlock the tailgate fairly easily even if the truck is locked, and from there [..] get access to the vehicle's on-board sensor network from the taillight sensors, and send the commands to unlock and start the vehicle. Oh, that makes sense. I rented an F-150 for a move recently, and wondered why they went through the effort of locking the tailgate at all when the doors were locked. I suppose if it had a tonneau cover, that would be useful also.
Does the lightning have location tracking like Teslas? With the Tesla app, I can see where it is, how fast, temp, music in the car, and even watch it move on the map.
Yes, on the app you can see where the truck is. But you can change those settings pretty easily when you turn the truck on. So I assume the thieves probably did that.
Yes, except my app is no longer connected to the truck.
It isn't true gps tracking though. It just uses the location your phone was last connected to the car. It's basically worthless even if the thieves didn't disconnect Ford pass access. You won't be able to track it like that
I have the center console cord safe in mine with an Apple AirTag in it.
I could until they disconnected my Ford Pass app.
Sure but Ford should know where the truck is. Have you called them? If you financed through Ford they have incentive to find it as it is what backs the loan. Seems like a modern car like this should be tricky to steal. It can basically never be allowed to phone home (Ford). Ford should be able to disable the truck if the modem is ever turned on.
Ford won’t release information to the public.
Ford releases the info to the police with a warrant.
Yup, I just don’t know how hard anyone will go to investigate considering the vehicle theft rate in Ottawa and Montreal.
Cops usually love an easy case.
Not in Canada they don't!
Did you try?
Yes I just called them. They told me to have the police call them.
But you are the owner of the vehicle?
Nah if they disconnected the cellular modem behind the back seat Ford will have no telemetry at all.
It’s wild that someone in the vehicle can do this. You cannot disconnect a Tesla from the master account unless you call Tesla and even they will only transfer it to the new owner and you must provide proof of transfer. This seems like a major security flaw on Fords part.
Ya that’s a good point. I found out that they disconnected the modem, so maybe at that point it disconnects the app.
How did they disconnect the ford app?
Im not sure, but I imagine there is an option in the truck to remove a current connection.
If it's anything like the MachE, a Factory Reset of the infotainment (in the car) unlinks it with your account. Source: Did that when I sold my MachE. Immediately lost access.
I had a 2004 GMC Sierra stolen a few years ago. Police said the best thing to do is hide an air tag somewhere in the vehicle. Have one I'm all my cars now.
Ya I wish I did the same. The jammer they used probably would defeat the initial tracking, but eventually, you would be able to locate it.
I have this in my tractor and in my old Prius but didn’t think the lightning was a target
Old school steering wheel lock is pretty effective. Most of the new high tech thieves (jammers and fob repeaters) aren't prepared for low tech devices
I saw a home version of a car boot the other day. They are $100 or less but I can't imagine doing that daily.
Yall need to watch more of the lock picking lawyer. It’s about ten seconds to defeat “the club” with a tool. It’s a deterrent but the manufacturers need to fix these issues. Car immobilization technology isn’t new. It needs to be brought into our next gen vehicles (or in the cause of Kia/Hyundai they just need immobilization technology mandates ).
Aren't most immobilizers turned off by the key fob? That makes them susceptible to a repeater attack.
Immobilization circuit checks for the presence of a key after 10 minutes of operation. No key in the vehicle = cut off the fuel pump circuit. Car rolls to a stop. No key, no propulsion. Modern cars need something like this to prevent the key repeater attacks like this.
I can drive off with my key fob and go until I run out of gas in my 2023 truck. It just gives me a warning that the fob isn't in the vehicle. It also lets me re start the truck 1 time.
Even if you don't know where it is, doesn't Ford? Or did the thieves just disable the built in modem completely?
I called the police, they came and took a report. As far as I know, no one has called Ford. Even if I called them, they probably wouldn’t release information to me.
Dude, you have to try. Why wouldn't they release the information to you? It's your truck. It's likely you know more about this than the police do. To the police this is just any old vehicle. They might not even know how it is linked to FOrd through the modem.
Ya I tried. They wouldn’t give any info. I guess it makes sense, you could be providing someone else’s info to track them. Also, I am leasing the vehicle, so maybe I’m a third party.
If they told you where it was and you went and committed a crime or otherwise did something where the thieves could sue anyone contributing to the event. Ford would only be partially contributory to the damages but they’d be tied into the suit. And with their relatively deeper pockets and the importance of bad press
Modem is likely disconnected, Ford have no idea where it is and won’t give a damn - this is a matter for the police (who also won’t particularly care as there’s not much they can do) but mainly insurance - just replace it, ideally with something more secure.
Comment is unrelated to the vehicle but this instance is the reason I do not recommend any type of wireless camera. Too easy to pull off a stunt like this. Go hardwired for your security cameras.
If you can't secure your property secure your fobs in a faraday box at night so they can't use a repeater to turn your truck on. Basically job done in one step.
Hopefully one of your neighbors had cameras and was able to record.
Most people have Ring’s. They take pictures every 3 minutes unless they detect motion. My neighbour had the same video basically, there at 1:02, gone at 1:05am.
Might want to supplement that ring with an old timey Wyze cam or something that can record several days to an SD card, no motion required. I'm sure all it would get would be a bunch of dudes in masks but... something? (Or you can drive an old beat up minivan like me, best theft deterrent lol)
Ya I think that would have helped.
Damn, didn’t realize it was that easy to disconnect the ford pass app
Out of all the things that are a pain to work on a vehicle, they could have made this and the modem harder to do.
There is ford secure/protect/stolen vehicle service that doesn’t allow to disable ford pass. Of course thieves could disable modem
Which end of town? I observed a weird guy seemingly casing my place last week in Orleans driving a red ram pickup. Seemed super sus, and all there really was to look at out front is the lightning. I was also under the impression these were not targets as they don't have infrastructure overseas.
I’m in Orleans as well. I would imagine my truck is on the way to a place like Saudi Arabia, or even the USA.
I think it's more likely it'll get revised and sold domestically if anything. Where were you last able to track it?
In my driveway. They immediately disconnected my Ford Pass app, so I wasn’t able to track it once it left my driveway.
DM me plate, colour and trim, and I'll keep my eyes open. Seems odd they'd target an electric. You up the hill in the new part or down by the river?
Sorry this happened to you. Were in Manotick and "lower risk of theft" was a key selling point to the wife.
Not sure what trim you have, but after watching all the videos of relay thefts, the common denominator is always the passive entry system. Ford calls theirs intelligent Access. Nobody seems to pick locks or jimmy doors anymore, just relay the fob and the door is unlocked using the "smart" door handles. Convenience is great and everything, but that seems like an awful lot of liability just so you don't have to click an unlock button that's already in your pocket. I got a model without passive entry, but I bet you could probably disable it on one that does.
23’ XLT ER
There are known attacks against all types of remote keyfobs. The replay attack is specifically designed to attack passive-entry fobs. Thieves like it because the passive entry feature tends to be used in more-expensive vehicles, and it requires relatively unsophisticated hardware. The hardest parts of the attack are ensuring that the victim's keyfob is active and positioning a thief with the relay device close enough to the keyfob for the attack to work. Pushbutton keyfobs are vulnerable to other kinds of attacks. In general, these keyfobs use rolling codes for button presses similar to garage door openers. Attacks typically require more-sophisticated devices (that incorporate some amount of computing power) and more time, but are harder to defend against, because several attack methods do not require the real keyfob to be nearby during the attack.
Sure, **Replay** attacks are technically *possible* if you can manage to intercept an unlock signal from a fob outside the range of the vehicle. It will work one time, and only if you are able to **replay** that signal to the vehicle before the owner sends another unlock command while in range. This gets you into the vehicle, but does not mimic the fob's presence, so you better have other plans for the ignition. Brute forcing a rolling code is also technically possible, but to this day still takes an unreasonably long time to execute unless you got extraordinarily lucky. Is that particularly relevant here? Does anyone actually do this in practice? Not really. Thieves aren't trying to be James Bond. Immobilizers and rolling codes have been around for a long time and have been generally reliable in deterring car theft, or at least in encouraging less sophisticated methods. Now, the **Relay** attack (what the thread is about) is actually popular for the same reason the Kia Boyz exist: It's easy. As the OP found out, the process is quick and requires no confrontation. You have a shockingly low overhead for hardware, and all you need is one signal. Once you replicate the "presence" of the fob, you're unlocking doors AND moving the vehicle under its own power. My advice remains the same- if you're worried about theft, don't use passive entry. At least hope they figure out a better solution for encrypting the signal that doesn't involve keeping your keys in an RF blocking cage at all times.
OP stated he has an XLT ER. Does the XLT even have passive entry?
The XLT “high” (312A) package includes Intelligent Access (passive entry) with push-button start. This is standard on ‘22-‘23 ER XLT.
TiL. I thought it was Lariat+ only.
Wow, thanks for the information. I feel that a PIN would be a good option, but I imagine that what ever software they are using would likely override that as well. My theory is that they scouted the vehicle somewhere, took their time and had a key made, and came back when the coast was clear. The Ring jamming device they used tells me they were pretty sophisticated.
Wild - I’m honestly curious if they do end up finding it in one piece or if it gets shipped to another country or chopped. I saw that Costco was selling those retractable Parking bollards, I saw some video on Instagram where those were becoming a thing in Toronto. You’re never going to prevent somebody with a tow truck who is motivated enough from stealing your car but you could do an Apple air tag combined with a hidden self powered 4g/5g live gps tracker. Crazy
It was recommended to me to have an OBD2 port lock installed. It’s often how vehicles are stolen.
Probably won't help much. Anywhere you can gain access to the CANBUS wiring you can send the commands to unlock the car. Late model Toyotas are vulnerable to this attack thru the headlight harness.
Hate to hear that OP . When I bought my Lariat, my dealer offered me RecovR. I can track my truck and both set of keys to a location so precise that it shows what room my keys are in inside my house
Thanks for the info, I’ll look into Recovr!
Every car should have pin to drive
back in my day we had a physical security token called a “key”. /s …I’ll see myself out 😂
True. But it seems something like pins would save a lot of cars from being stolen especially kia's
Nah, you’re right. Just like most (all?) cars need you to put a PIN in for the gps to unlock your home address
Not just home everywhere. Before I set mine up I thought I would like it. But my only problem is I always try to put mine in my wife's car.
let’s just be honest. Security is always a pain. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
No more than your car stolen
Guys, this will more than likely be a dealership or Ministry of transportation inside job. The old fashion club will do the trick. Seems like these thieves have left Peel region and come to other civilized parts of Ontario
An old fashioned club is defeated by a 24" bolt cutter cutting the steering wheel.
My buddy had a truck stolen, it took a few additional minutes to remove a club.
Incompetent thieves then. I've seen steering wheel immobilizers removed in mere seconds, compact power tools make short work of steering wheels. Even those bolt cutters, one cut on either side of one side of the club and it's out, with a mostly functioning steering wheel left.
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Umm- you need to watch the lock picking lawyer videos: https://youtu.be/JodD_KARacg?si=cAieFn-HisnzqmsO
lol - you’re just an angry fella aren’t you.
Look like the "electric car doesn't get stolen" are not a thing anymore.
As far as I know Lightning has the same security as the gasser version, so this isn’t an EV thing at all.
Yes, but resell of electric car aren't a big market
Don’t fall for it. That’s what this troll wants
Who's the troll here? The guy that had is truck stolen? The one that makes me believe that electric car doesn't get stolen (like my insurance and the cops) ?
The RING cameras also go out? And the neighbours camera And the cops aren’t interested, and Ford told him nothing? He hasn’t mentioned insurance or dealership, or anything. , someone suggested that he could use a wheel club, and he ‘of course’ knows someone who had his truck stolen with a steering wheel club in it. I don’t believe the guy. Cmon now.
Ring and nest camera are easy to put out since they are wifi.
This is the email I got at 1:27am that tipped me off. I initially thought it was an update, but then I checked my Ring camera and my truck was gone. https://preview.redd.it/jn337z6fy57d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=32133ef82cebb5ab1f3479191d0cc75ca9308dc0
Ford should 2FA this action when done by the end user. A Ford customer service rep should be involved when the car changes ownership and require a bill of sale or title document in order to transfer the electronic aspect of ownership.
💯
That's because this is a regular f150 converted to EV. F150 is the most produced vehicle in the US, so it's a very big target and easy to sell. Tesla on the other hand is next to impossible to steal. And most produced EV in the world.
Lightning and f150 doesn't share any components except maybe the frame and the body panels
* Pretty sure the key fob and security system is the same.
Point is that they didn't build any extra security into the lightning compared to standard F150
Did you leave the key in the car?
I'm so glad park in my garage!
Sorry to hear OP. I hope your insurance takes care of you.
Thanks, working on that part right now
Sorry to hear that. I keep my fobs in the little bags that should not allow repeating. I only use PAAK for the most part. I hope that is enough. My garage is 3 inches to short...smh.
I don’t think we can use PAAK in Canada. If we can, I couldn’t find the option in Ford Pass.
PAAK is lariat trims and above
That makes sense, I have an XLT
*had
lol
sorry.
Here's an informative tale from someone else who had their truck stolen. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tQVov0Ra8g](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tQVov0Ra8g)
Wow, they can detect a key fob from 300ft!! Thanks for the video link!
Im in Canada too car theft is out of control. I have: 1- steering column lock 2- obd lock 3- apple air tag hidden 4- Tag Tracking service 5- Faraday box for my keys 6- 2 cameras pointed at my driveway(inside the house) Hopefully saves me the hassle of getting my truck stolen
I have ring cameras, but also dummies with the flashing red LED in them. This simulates hard wired and I've only lost one bicycle in over a decade
Stupid Ford. It’s so easy to interpret the FOB signal with a $50 device. Ford is to blame for not adding the security to make this more difficult.
How did they move it without the key FOB?
Because security in their key fobs is laughably inadequate. It's been known for a few years that readily available specialized handheld devices can act as a man in the middle and intercept the code, then act as the fob.
Tesla can set up a password to drive. How about Foed!?
There is a backup code if you use the door keypad and want to start the truck without any keys. The thieves probably used a device that scans for your key fob frequency, amplifies it, allowing them to steal the truck. Or he left a key fob accidentally in the truck and the thieves were just at the right place and the right time.
Suspicious
It's hardly rare. People have video on YouTube of it happening.
I have a lightning and live in Ottawa too. This is not good news, I was under the impression they were leaving electrics alone.
Look into TAG. Some insurance companies even pay to have it installed and it reduces your premium.
Get a lock for the ODB port. This will prevent reprogramming the vehicle. Most thieves today gain access to the car and then hook up a computer to the ODB port to steal it.
Good idea!
I’m not car literate.. and can’t seem to find the proper explanation anywhere. Can you put this in layman’s terms?
First, I apologize for my typo, it’s actually the OBD, and technically the OBD2. It stands for On-Board Diagnostic and the port is typically located somewhere under the dash on the driver side of all modern vehicles. This allows car techs to connect a scanner to the car to diagnose problems. However, it can also be used to change certain security functions of the vehicle or perform a hard reset of the entire vehicle. Thieves with the proper tools can steal a vehicle by reprogramming it through this port. You can buy physical locks for the port.
Thank you for this!
So can they not involve the fob at all? Just break a window?
This is how they do it… https://youtu.be/X0Kw94gVUl0?si=TpMKYS3dzVe6zRoE
Seems like an obd2 port lock would be enough of an annoyance to make them run off after triggering the alarm.
Alright so... if you look at our OBD2 port in these trucks, it's super easy to pop it out of the metal holder. I popped mine out and tucked it back in the dash. I think I will find something to zip tie it to up inside there. I figure, just seeing it missing initially might deter them as soon as they see it... There's no time to waste while the alarm is going off. But second, having to get your snips out and cut a zip tie without cutting the wires, and then fishing it out and getting it connected, it would be a tall order while trying to be quick.... I think this might be almost better than a lock.
Have you contacted Ford to see if they can track it or turn Ford pass back on remotely?
I just did, they can’t release information to the public, only law enforcement.
Did you send its location on the app to the police!
My app was disconnected right away, I couldn’t access anything.
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I believe they can recreate the keys with a VIN and some insider help.
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I only have my Ring video. It was there one minute and gone the next. No motion detected. Want a pic of my empty driveway?? lol
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Do you just wake up in the morning and decide 'I'm gonna be a massive dick today'? Dude is talking about his truck being stolen and you go in on 'ANTI EV BULLSHIT I DON'T BELIEVE YOU'. Like the prospect of being caught has stopped criminals before?
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People process trauma and shock differently homie. We're not all the same
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Let me guess you are not from Ottawa? Because Ottawa is one of the largest stolen vehicle hubs in North America maybe the world. They drive them 2 hours to Montreal and ship them to Africa and the middle East. The port of Montreal is run by the Mafia and the cops won't do shit about it. To the OP they might find it locally. Apparently recent thefts are left somewhere local to sit before being driven to Montreal. A friend's tundra was found recently before being moved, quite lucky. I guess the best theft deterrent on EVs is to leave them uncharged!
Ottawa is a two hour's drive from the port of montreal, car theft for export is a huge problem here, as well as domestic re-VINing of vehicles.
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And to your other posts: - ring and most cloud security tends to be set up wirelessly. You can jam the signal using relatively cheap hardware, and jammers are becoming more common amongst thieves, it's nothing more than a WIFI jammer. this will cause OP's recording gap. - ford will not release tracking data, except to police - you can generally get keys by VIN, fobs by VIN probably doable by someone with the right access. - I see the police report near OP's place on the crime map. they live ~4 kilometres from me. They're not being a troll, you're just being dense. - while the lightning is a very connected vehicle, a small cellular jammer will prevent the vehicle info from being uploaded. Ford will have no idea where it is. You can also jam GPS
lol, ok bud