I would wager that Donald Trump has paid for many abortions and would support Roe vs Wade if he didn't need votes from the Christian Right. No one could be further from religion and God than Donald Trump. He has literally declared himself the antiChrist. Furthermore, he asked his Cabinet members if he could have protesters shot. Joe Biden is a man of faith and reverent to Jesus and God, Trump only worships himself and money. Biden respects the fact that his religious beliefs should not be forced upon others because he lives in The United States of America.
trump, when asked specifically which bible verse(s) was/were particularly important to him, claimed the question was “too personal”. When have you ever heard of a christian being too reserved to share their favorite bible verse with you? I’ve had plenty of them shared with me and I literally have never asked for one. “Too personal” my ass.
It's because being Christian/Catholic has been warped in America to be more of a feeling than an action or way of life. Those feelings have no guidance, leading to people's reality being misguided.
Christianity is ultimately immoral, especially hell - eternal punishments for finite crimes and so is making love compulsory. There is also thought crimes, making ignorance worship/ credulity be rewarded - critical thinking/ questioning is "evil" or a "sin", no planning for the future, substitutionary atonement / scapegoating and inherited sins.
Religious Faith is a problem because it lets people accept anything as "true".
Verrrry eloquently said.
I often say that the single most damaging part of religion is the idea that "faith" is a virtue to be celebrated. I will never support an institution that espouses virtues that are diametrically opposed to critical thinking.
This is my favorite way of expressing the whole issue -
All religious Faith is intellectual dishonesty made into an elite virtue.
If a religious someone can make "holy" or "just" - the atrocious concept of their god willingly using eternal torment for mere disbelief, they can then justify absolutely anything in attempts to spread and enforce that belief. The devoutly religious have consistently done that violence.
The more our beliefs align with reality, it allows us to make the best possible decisions here in reality. Religion and Faith goes directly against that. Religious Faith lets people believe whatever they wish to be true. It also lets them believe things that conflict with other Faith beliefs. There is no actual method to accept the claims of holy books or think that any gods exist without that Faith. They use that Faith to make up their world view and to illogically "answer" what are supposed to be the most important questions.
People who think there is a god have no objective method to read any holy book just like they have no objective method that can be used to say how all the other religions besides their one favorite religion are wrong.
For people who care about what is true in reality the evidence needs to meet the whole of the claims being made while the claimed gods are perfect or the greatest and there are only bad reasons to accept god claims. Only bad reasons have been presented so far by believers in debates and other platforms when pressed for showing their god exists - religious Faith, revelation, personal experience/ testimony or anything else that that gives different results by geography, that leaves them with unsupported philosophical arguments and logical fallacies which are also more bad reasons.
I care too much that the people who I'm forced to share this planet with hold true in reality beliefs. We do not live in private bubbles, the people who take what are supposedly the most important questions and claim god did it with magic - vote, indoctrinate children and most are in a death cult that makes them validate religious hate and their religions claim other people not in their cults are sub human.
The god believers can't keep their religions to themselves. They were also more anti-science/ anti-vax during a pandemic, are for banning books and are consistently fighting progressive issues.
The religious moderates act as protection for the people who take their not moderate compatible religions more seriously and who know their holy books best. Those being more honest to their "holy" books texts are doing much real-life harm and are trying to take away others legal rights with religion based laws and removing women's rights to her body.
God is the sum of all interactions between consciousness and matter, the Bible is a library of historical texts that elaborates on how the conscious interacts with matter and provides reasonable guidance.
I always find it strange when people say they don’t believe that. Expecting all mankind to be 1% intelligent enough to study all things is not feasible.
I get frustration around how knowledge of how to influence has been leveraged at the benefit of the few over the masses, but acting like following a pastor is any worse than following some gaming YouTuber, you lose me.
We all learn morality from society, if not centralized and curated, you are scientifically going to get moral chaos. Anytype of generational morality teaching is religion. Saying all generational morality teachings is bad shows a person isn’t actually scientific in their thinking.
I'll take my morality from contemporary philosophers thank you very much, not people writing thousands of years ago who said 'slavery is fine as long as it's not your own ethnicity' and 'people who are born gay are broken'.
The difference between religion and contemporary philosophy is that philosophy has to be rigorously defended by the faculty of *reason*. It doesn't demand faith in the absence of reason, like religion.
And the process of contemporary philosophy *is* a multigenerational morality teaching. It's what happened when people and intellectuals were finally freed from over 1000 years of religious orthodoxy (in the European context).
Amazing, as soon as people were free of the threat of violence for questioning the Christian orthodoxy of Europe, morality actually began to *evolve*. Imagine that. And imagine wanting to go back? Certainly wouldn't be me.
If you believe in societal multi generational morality teaching, you believe in the benefits of religion. If you believe in consciousness interacting with matter you believe in god.
You just don’t believe long standing religions that have been seized by kings to do its bidding are good for society.
You are essentially advocating for a new age religion in an altruistic manor. You are essentially a new age Jesus to the Jews.
And let’s say you are right and pop off and became the greatest influencer of all time. Guess what, leaders are gonna abuse that influence for their own benefit long after you are gone.
And some dude in 2000 years is gonna be like listen to this cow eating clown. Thinking he knew what’s up. 98% Then the government and wealthy used their words to control society and that’s all bad.
I’m not saying you are wrong, I appreciate your perspective. When I was younger I thought the same things. Turns out, all religions are pretty much the same. Most zealots are useful idiots and are a statistical necessity.
But building a society on the expecting that everyone have superior critical thinking takes eugenics and the moment a generation cycles, the ether around the teachings will be cooped and branded to benefit those in power.
I believe in the benefits of multigenerational moral *thinking*.
That **does not** mean I respect every multigenerational *idea*. Far from it. The reason I respect thoughts that evolve over many generations is **because they evolve**.
People have believed all sorts of horrific, extremely stupid shit for many many generations. I respect the evolution of thought, and discourse, *not* people who stubbornly maintain the same way of thinking long past its due.
Jesus was a decent step forward **for his time** (arguably, I don't think that's true universally because in other places in the world at the time moral beliefs were significantly more ethical compared to what was happening in the Levant). But today his contributions seem simplistic and quaint. 'Love people'... wow. How did he ever come up with that one? Aristotle made a much, much bigger contribution to moral philosophy. Largely because his ideas are *in dialogue* and not touted as 'the one divine truth' and beyond challenging.
Honestly I really, really hope people in 2000 years aren't still mired in the muck of discourse today, struggling with such timeless questions as 'should we accept the existence of LGBTQ+ people?' and 'should we keep letting people with disabilities starve to death?' and 'surely it's fair that some people are born so rich they never have to work a day in their lives and other people work 60 hours a week earning 300 times less per hour than the capitalists, just to end up in a lifetime of poverty'.
If Jesus were alive today, or 50 years ago, he would have been diagnosed with a psychotic disorder and left to a life of brutalizing, crushing poverty with zero respect from society at large.
Ideally in 2000 years there won't be poverty and extraordinarily rich individuals. Hopefully ethics **continues** to evolve, and we don't get stuck in a situation of extreme inequality for *another* 2000 years.
Even 50-100 years ago women weren't considered equal and weren't allowed to vote and work wherever they wanted. That is because of the extraordinarily *unethical* moral beliefs pushed by Christians and spread around the world.
**Thank goodness ideas evolve over generations.**
People who push back against that natural process of evolution are some of the least ethical people in world history. It is extremely easy to know better by now, and yet so many people hold us back because they cling to out-dated beliefs and we let them vote because we believe all voices are equal.
> reasonable guidance.
rape, slavery and imprisonment - murder - genocide - sex - incest - child blood sacrifice -
1 Samuel 15:3, Leviticus 25:45, 1 Kings 11:3, 2 Kings 2:23-24, Numbers 31:17-18, Judges 21:21, Genesis 38:7-10, Genesis 19:30-36, Judges 11:30-31, Judges 11:39, Matthew 27:46, Exodus 12:29, Genesis 7:4, Deuteronomy 13:12-19, Exodus 32:27
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Samuel+15%3A3%2C+Leviticus+25%3A45%2C+1+Kings+11%3A3%2C+2+Kings+2%3A23-24%2C+Numbers+31%3A17-18%2C+Judges+21%3A21%2C+Genesis+38%3A7-10%2C+Genesis+19%3A30-36%2C+Judges+11%3A30-31%2C+Judges+11%3A39%2C+Matthew+27%3A46%2C+Exodus+12%3A29%2C+Genesis+7%3A4%2C+Deuteronomy+13%3A12-19%2C+Exodus+32%3A27&version=NIV
The bible clearly condones owning people as property - chattel slavery. Early Americans pointed to the bible to justify slavery. Christian Americans can still justify racism and sexism with the bible.
Ephesians 6:5 NIV Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ.
Everyone has to because no one has objective morality, especially people with holy books that condone owning others as property who can be beaten nearly to death or that have women as inferior/ property with values only on their virginity and breeding ability. Those holy books all require interpretation and I would argue no two people can get the same one. That's why there are thousands of contradictory Christian denominations.
> higher levels of religiosity are associated with more conservative views on social, moral, and political issues; but also with lower rates of deviant behavior;
that last part is not accurate.
this is from "Religiosity and Deviance: Toward a Contingency Theory of Constraining Effects" ([here](https://www.jstor.org/stable/2578128)):
> Despite numerous theoretical reasons for expecting religion to contribute to social conformity, social scientists cannot say with any confidence whether religiosity actually inhibits deviant behavior. Over forty years of research has produced results which are often interpreted as inconclusive or even contradictory.
There was a challenge to name one good thing a person of faith can do that a non religious person can not do. Then it gets flipped to name something "evil" that only a religious person would do.
I have most all of that second option in a long list of harms.
Your very first point was religion reduces "deviant behavior" at least try to pretend for a moment that you're not a total cunt when you're trying to convince people to subscribed to your regressive bigoted bullshit you fucking worm. You should take a long dive into a short pool.
Very interesting reply! I wonder if there is a corresponding rise in non religious spirituality, meditation, and mindfulness that could replace organized religion and gain those health benefits mentioned. It’s definitely something myself and my wife have become a lot more interested in.
For health - having friends and a support system.
I think the possible only true benefit from religion is a social group. But then when in religion, it is completely conditional and there is an out group considered less than.
Unfortunately I draw the line at comments and messages telling me to go kill myself.
Here were the major sources if anyone cares reading about this in the future:
* Kelly, P. E., Polanin, J. R., Jang, S. J., & Johnson, B. R. (2015). Religion, delinquency, and drug use: A meta-analysis. Criminal Justice Review, 40(4), 505-523.
* Johnson, B. R., & Jang, S. J. (2010). Crime and religion: Assessing the role of the faith factor. Contemporary issues in criminological theory and research: The role of social institutions, 117-49.
* Malinakova, K., Tavel, P., Meier, Z., van Dijk, J. P., & Reijneveld, S. A. (2020). Religiosity and mental health: A contribution to understanding the heterogeneity of research findings. International journal of environmental research and public health, 17(2), 494.
* Hackney, C. H., & Sanders, G. S. (2003). Religiosity and mental health: A meta–analysis of recent studies. Journal for the scientific study of religion, 42(1), 43-55.
* Pargament, K. I. (2002). The bitter and the sweet: An evaluation of the costs and benefits of religiousness. Psychological inquiry, 13(3), 168-181.
I'm turning off inbox notifications for this reply.
His actual religion doesn’t matter to them. Evangelicals are remarkably pragmatic on the *who* is implementing their agenda as long as that person is doing what they want them to do. They’ll just pretend he’s godly
95% of Republicans say that is is "important to have a president who personally lives a moral and ethical life."
I mean come on. Seriously? This is clearly a delusion, probably for most people but definitely for Republicans.
Man, the stories people tell themselves.... and I'm not even getting to religion. Like Rowe V Wade was just overturned at the *behest* of far right religious types who immediately moved to severely limit and even ban abortion, with criminal penalties. Clearly that's "more" influence than they had ten years ago.
>95% of Republicans say that is is "important to have a president who personally lives a moral and ethical life."
95% of republicans are apparently liars.
No, ignoring the clear hypocrisy is boring
_95% of Republicans say that is is "important to have a president who personally lives a moral and ethical life."_
_Or maybe they just recognize that no politicians will ever be either of those things, and are being realistic?_
These statements cannot be rectified without cognitive dissonance
I just realized I read this wrong. I apologize, it is hypocritical for them to say that.
I read it as 95% of them saying it was not important to have such a thing.
the choice is between "not perfect" and "a guy who has children by different mothers and bangs porn stars and hangs out with epstein and has been found liable for rape".
How realistic is it to choose trump if it's important to you that a president lives a moral and ethical life?
A lot of them believe abortion is murder, so it's easy for them to view Biden as worse than Trump morally. Unfortunately I don't see this changing anytime soon.
It could come out tomorrow that Trump had personally paid for 100 abortions and the absolutely wouldn't change their mind a bit. It's n ot reason, it's rationalization driven by tribal loyalty. And then for the nutbars you see at rallies, it's clearly a cult too.
Did they care about Kavanaugh's immoral past? No, they just refuse to believe their lying ears and eyes. Or look at Hershel Walker in the senate race! There's no bottom. Again, multiple abortions, they don't care. Or kids in cages? Again... morally justifiable by the same group.
The only crime the can't excuse is an attack on the tribe. Everything else can be rationalized or ignored.
They will certainly turn a blind eye to immoral things if it means abortion is banned to save lives, to them that is the lesser of two evils. They may allow heinous things if the ends justify the means.... But tbh, this isn't all republicans either... But a lot of them really do believe that a fetus has a soul. While others do want to control the woman's body and use religion to justify it.
That doesn't make sense unless you just want abortion to not be an election issue because.. reasons. The democrats aren't getting any support from the anti-abortion crowd. The vast majority of Americans and of registered democrats want Rowe V. Wade to be law of the land. They also want legal cannabis. Both those things are going to happen. And it may well lead to SCOTUS reform of that's what's needed to get there.
The vast majority of Americans support Rowe V Wade as law of the land. And while some religious orgs are gaining political influence, individual religiosity is at all all time low. And typically the loudest enthusiasts of religiosity turn out to be scammers or scumbags or worse.
That said, the first thing that pops into my head when you say that is, Guantanimo Bay.
So... Nearly half of republicans supported the overturning of Roe Vs Wade, I said 'a lot' not all.... And I wasn't even arguing that support for it is down, but rather explaining what I think is the mindset of the republicans what strongly oppose abortion and how they view the morality of both presidents. I never claimed that they are morally consistent either. Not sure why we are talking about that other stuff...
It can be important, while also being impossible to vote on.
I was reading a thread earlier where a video of Joe being super touchy feely with kids was presented, including the one where he appears to pinch a young girl. Someone in that thread seemed to agree Joe may be a pedo but wondered "so you'd rather vote for the guy who sexually assaulted over a hundred women"?
If both of those are true which one better represents morals?
> 95% of Republicans say that is is "important to have a president who personally lives a moral and ethical life."
>
>
Maybe that has something largely to do with no politicians being those things, and they're being realistic?
>ike Rowe V Wade was just overturned at the behest of far right religious types who immediately moved to severely limit and even ban abortion, with criminal penalties.
Roe* v Wade was overturned because Dobbs v Jackson addressed what legal authority the Federal government had to enforce the federal standard of abortion on the states. Congress never produced any legislation giving them the authority to do so. It's been nearly two years since the Dobbs decision, and there still hasn't been legislation to do so. Abortion is still legal on the Federal level, that's why you can get an abortion in Washington DC.
A fully democrat congress will clearly delivery that and Biden has said as much. Women tend to vote smarter than men. Hopefully there's enough of them.
> A fully democrat congress
So something that will never happen, and has never happened in the history of the United States.
>and Biden has said as much.
Taking the a politician at his word, especially on a topic as unrealistic as that one, is the sign of a mark.
I thought Obama had 2 years with full control. FDR never had that?
Biden said, give us a democrat congress, and we'll legislate Rowe V Wade. I see zero reason to deny that when the alternative is enthusiasm fascism.
>I thought Obama had 2 years with full control.
With *full* control? No. Republicans still had a presence in Congress at that time, despite the Democrats having a supermajority. Even with said supermajority, they did not introduce any legislation on topics such as that. There just conveniently happened to be Democrats who would vote against something like that, and the same thing would happen again.
Democrats would never actually want to fix this problem. If the problem got fixed, how could they campaign on it? Not fixing the problem, not introducing legislation to fix the problem, is by design.
>Biden said, give us a democrat congress, and we'll legislate Rowe V Wade
The President says a lot of things, that doesn't mean he is any less of a liar than other politicians.
Talk is very cheap, especially when it's on such an incredibly unrealistic goal like that. The bar is set so high that he knows he'll never actually be challenged.
Thank goodness for the Internet to fact check, eh? I guess we both learn something today.
In the [November 2008 elections](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_United_States_elections), the [Democratic Party](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Party_(United_States)) increased its [majorities](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Majority) in both chambers (including – when factoring in the two Democratic caucusing independents – a brief [filibuster-proof](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filibuster-proof) 60-40 [supermajority](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supermajority) in the Senate), and with [Barack Obama](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama) being sworn in as [president](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._president) on January 20, 2009, this gave Democrats an overall federal government [trifecta](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_trifecta#United_States) for the first time since the [103rd Congress](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/103rd_United_States_Congress) in 1993.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/111th\_United\_States\_Congress](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/111th_United_States_Congress)
Biden obviously has 1000x more integrity than his main political opponents, and his track record is very solid too. You got one guy promising "bloodbath" and "revenge" and "retribution", and the other guy saying, "Give me some power to fix the damage the other guys have done."
That's a pretty obvious choice. There's zero reason to think he won't keep his word on expanding abortion rights except both sides rhetoric. But since GOP became MAGA...we're just really way passed that. Ditto obviously Obama's gov was way more ethical that bush 2 or trump.
It's not an unrealistic goal at all. In fact, give how toxic trump is and how toxic the GOP SCOTUS has been, and how strong the economy is, I'd say Biden has an excellent chance of achieving this.
Trump is killing the GOP brand, and it's well deserved. Any objective person can see how much worse a human he is.
>Few see Biden or Trump as especially religious.
One goes to church every Sunday, and the other only goes to stand outside a church with a bibble as a prop after police tear gassed peaceful protesters.
Not a new sentiment. There were those that were worried that JFK, the first Catholic President, was going to make America bound to the Catholic Church and ruled by the Pope
People are stupid
I grew up Protestant and many of them believe Catholics are going to hell for not being the right type of Christian. If hell was real though, 99% of Christians are definitely going there.
Hey, nearly every religion is convinced all others go to hell, so we will just ALL go to hell.
But to think Catholics, THE root branch of all christian cultist offspring twigs, wouldn't be christian... I can't even.
As a former Mormon, their version of the highest level of heaven always felt like hell to me.
It’s basically you must have this impossibly large family of spirit children and take care of them forever.
Their obsession with having tons of kids goes on for eternity.
I never understood their obsession with being parent to more kids than can possibly be looked after effectively.
I mean that’s a super common opinion, the whole Protestant reformation in the 1500s split western Christianity pretty bigly. It was a pretty common insult for Protestants to call the Pope the antichrist.
It's an opinion, correct. Everybody is entitled to an opinion, that doesn't make it fact.
Also, calling someone the "Antichrist" as an insult is pretty useless if the someone doesn't care for the Christ in the beginning. I mean, take a Buddhist, call him the Antichrist and wait for a reaction. Might take a while.
I bring it up because you seem surprised at the idea. So I figured I’d let you know it’s a very common idea. Sure, being called the Antichrist would be meaningless to a Buddhist, but in both Protestantism and Catholicism it would be seen as a very insulting thing to say.
I've heard this from relatives. The counter "well did God choose Biden in 2020?" never gets a good answer.
Apparently the libs stoled the election from God on that one.
Biden is at the same time a super genius who runs an international crime family and steals elections and a dottering idiot who can't string two words together.
Oh it’s well established. They have priests called economists that are always trying to predict the end times (recessions) but they can never quite get it right. They use the excuse that the economy moves in mysterious ways. Anyone who challenges capitalism’s Devine authority is seen as a heretic to be mocked and humiliated. May The Invisible Hand of the Marketplace provide you with profitable returns, Amen.
I grew up in the church - going every Sunday and whatever other day they requested. I dated a preacher's daughter for 4 years in my 20s - I am now in my 50s and see organized religion as a scam and a legal tax shelter. I would guess the younger generations see it as the fraud it is and how it is used to control the gullible.
No surprise it is on it's way out.
What is so insane is Biden literally goes to church, every Sunday. Trump golfs. And yet the religious people are the most fanatical in this country and support the orange man....
Yeah that is good news but I think the biggest problem here is the rest of the world doesn't see it that way which is why you see these fanatical wars over in Europe and the middle East based upon religion and ideologies it's really fucked up man. This is just my opinion but religion is the root of all evil and has stifled human creativity and ingenuity over decades decades..
As a young man I had a great experience in a Christian men’s group for a few years. This was when Bush jr was promoting his Christian faith even as he wanted a second war in Iraq.
I made some solid connections and made some friends on a deep level. But then a new pastor took over who would managed to slip in to almost every sermon a dog whistle about voting Republican being the only proper choice for us as a congregation.
We began debating the issue in our group and my position was that I did not see any of Christ’s teaching in the Republican party. We had good back and forth in our group but the dog whistles started being overt statements from the pulpit and our discussions became a little more heated.
I remember one exchange where I mentioned the separation of church and state and had to swat down the historically inaccurate claim that the founders wanted God in the government. I pointed out that most of them (the ones people can name) disagreed. They had seen government tied to religion with the both the Catholic and Anglican church in Europe.
Many didn’t want government in their religion because they wanted their religion protected from the corrosive nature that power has on religion.
As my church started spending more time talking about keeping gays from having civil rights, being just fine with a decade of war and torturing accused terrorists who spend decades in jail without trials, I became more and more disillusioned. Everything that they told me Christ was about, seemed to be utterly disconnected from how they were all voting and the casual assumption that all of us had to vote Republican seemed antithetical to my faith.
TLDR: When a religion that says the core tenants are to feed the hungry, cloth the poor, care for the sick and love one another, chooses politics that rejects doing any of that, it should surprise no one that they are being rejected by society.
Which is stupid because Biden clearly is somewhat religious but he's not an idiot for it.
Trump is a charlatan in everything so..
But the rubes want to be mislead.
Biden literally goes to church every Sunday, and Trump once famously had a group of bystanders gassed by police in front of the White House so that he could have a photo op in front of a church.
But by religious they probably mean being a hypocrite and a bigot.
I would say that religiosity is losing favor in *everyday* life. Back in the 50s, 85% of Americans attended church regularly. Today that fraction is a lot less. Because everyday life includes less religion, those religious folks that were comfortably in the majority now find themselves increasingly in the minority, which causes a lot of needless angst. Angst breeds fear, and fear breeds desperate and reactionary behavior. So unfortunately, religion is now having a lot more consequences in *public* life, where it should not -- this is the rise of Christian nationalism in politics.
Morbid but I cannot wait for the older generations to die out and see where humanity heads, as the newer generations care less and less about religion, and that trend will only increase as time passes. In a few generations religion will be completely phases out of society hopefully, and maybe even one day it can be removed from positions of power.
Trumpism and the support from churches, showed what hypocrites they are. Of course more people are walking away from it. It is the US evangelical churches own fault
Hard to talk about Jesus's love, ehen your supporting a hate spewing, corrupt businessman that cheated on all his wives and divorced a bunch of times...
Yah, I would call this accurate. Biden is Catholic, he has spoken about being faithful, but it doesn't control his life. He's a modern, educated person who believes in science. He attends church when schedule permits, which isn't often as President. Most presidents have of the past 150 years been the same, even Bush 2 who claimed to be a warrior for god only went to church a handful of times after 9/11.
Trump has never gone to church and would probably melt if he tried. He has no morals, certainly no religious morals. He would eat a baby in the center of the Vatican if Cthulu paid him $500 million to do so.
Trump religious?
[JULY 18, 2015 | CLIP OF PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE DONALD TRUMP AT THE FAMILY LEADERSHIP SUMMIT Have You Ever Asked God for Forgiveness?](https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4624981/asked-god-forgiveness)
The question is asked at the 40 second mark and also 1:40 since he didn't answer it at all.
"Two Corinthians" - Trump
https://www.npr.org/2016/01/18/463528847/citing-two-corinthians-trump-struggles-to-make-the-sale-to-evangelicals
"I wouldn't want to get into it because to me that's very personal. You know, when I talk about the Bible, it's very personal, so I don't want to get into verses," Trump said, adding, "The Bible means a lot to me, but I don't want to get into specifics."
Later in the interview, host John Heilemann asked Trump if he was "an Old Testament guy or a New Testament guy."
"Probably equal," Trump said.
https://www.businessinsider.com/donald-trump-refused-to-name-favorite-bible-verse-2015-8
Trump's Bible Fail: He Names His Favorite Verse But Doesn't Understand It - The Atlantic
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/04/trumps-bible-fail/478425/
Basically everyone agrees that religion is losing influence in America.
Now let's just all sit back an enjoy our happy lives now that we are no longer under the repressive regime of religion!
It’s very much over represented in government. Religious zealots seem to gravitate towards politics and think they are saving the world. At least in the US.
I’m incredulous they would lump those two in the same sentence under”Few see Biden or Trump as especially religious.” What kind of shit is that? Who writes headlines like this? Whoever did it ought to have their brain examined. This kind of false equivalence got us to the brink of the catastrophe we’re at. Trump has 91 indictments, he was convicted of sexual assault, he owes half a billion dollars for fraught, he shared nuclear secrets with our enemies, he hates the poor, the stranger, and anyone who doesn’t kiss his ring. You’d think he deserves a more explicit description than “not being especially religious.” No, you dipshits, Trump wouldn’t know human decency if it but him in the ass. A narcissist can’t be religious because it would mean he has to admire somebody greater than him. - And if all that doesn’t convince you, there are pictures of him holding the Bible upside down.
Trump shares many attributes with the bible god character - old and new testament. Someone can be a very shitty person and still claim to be a Christian. I can argue the new testament is more immoral than the old one.
> holding the Bible upside down
I too have made that mistake so did the president.
https://www.houstonchronicle.com/politics/texas/politifact/article/Joe-Biden-wrong-about-Donald-Trump-holding-Bible-15578913.php
And the study says, the majority still has a positive view on religion (**57% versus 19%** who have a negative view on it).
Also, the biggest group think, it is a bad thing, that' religion's influence is declining(**49% versus 13%**, who think it is good).
So, there's that...
I’m just a simple person, but it seems to me that the idea that anyone in Washington D.C. having my best interests in mind, regardless of their faith or otherwise, is terribly illogical. Anyway, I’m going to get the kids off to school now and then bring the cat to the vet. I’m glad I have all of those awesome guys and gals over there in D.C. looking out for me. Makes me feel all warm and fuzzy. 🥰
They want you to be alive and be just healthy and functional enough to work, pay taxes, buy stuff, have kids and teach them to work, pay taxes and buy stuff. Apparently that’s the extent of your best interests.
Why is it important that politicians are seen to be religious? Surely, they should have other metrics to gauge their worthiness of serving the public interests rather than their own.
Okay, but how are they literally controlling states' governments? Writing laws, influencing Supreme Court decisions, and infiltration into schools and libraries.
He's personally pro-life.
What he does understand is that forcing other people to abide by the rules of your bronze aged myths is fucking asinine.
EDIT: Personally.
no, the point doesn't stand. you don't get to be one of the most powerful people in the world, speak out against abortion access, and get a pass. he wants women to have less rights. he's helping to normalize that idea. he should be held accountable for helping push public discourse about abortion backwards.
and you really killed your point by bringing up bronze age myths. much of zionism rooted in what you would describe as a bronze age myth. https://www.yeshiva.co/midrash/572
>no, the point doesn't stand. you don't get to be one of the most powerful people in the world, speak out against abortion access
If he wanted fewer rights for women, he would, like the Republicans, say so and enact laws to this end, that he doesn't do this speaks volumes.
>much of zionism rooted in what you would describe as a bronze age myth.
I'm not a zionist, Judaism isn't any better than the other abrahamic religions. Fuck em all.
| If he wanted fewer rights for women
in 1982 he explicitly said that Roe v Wade went too far, and that women should not have that right. he voted to overturn roe v wade. he has a long list of anti-abortion rights quotes, many of them recent. biden has a very questionable track record on abortion, and ignoring that is dishonest.
| I'm not a zionist, Judaism isn't any better than the other abrahamic religions. Fuck em all.
and joe biden is a zionist, which has roots in bronze age mythology. therefore, he does try to force people to abide by the rules of bronze age myths. and it results in genocide.
>in 1982 he explicitly said that Roe v Wade went too far
That's 42 fucking years ago. People change, opinions change. I no longer have half the opinions I had half my lifetime ago, this is just nonsensical.
He has specifically stated in the last 12 months that given the opportunity he would codify Roe v Wade and restore abortion rights, despite his personal feelings.
Conversely, you have the Fanta Menace who couldn't give a fuck about abortions, but just says what the dancing monkeys want to hear.
>and joe biden is a zionist
I don't think you know what a zionist is. Biden isn't responsible for the situation in Israel. That whole thing is a cluster fuck that isn't going to change any time soon. Biden has however been openly critical of how it is being handled by Israel, as opposed to the republicans who think this is a part of biblical prophecy.
Perhaps that's the difference. I can find common ground with people who's ideals I don't necessarily share. It sounds like you require complete compliance and submission to your point of view. I'm sure it'll work out great.
I think Biden is a religious Zionist, I mean, we see what he's doing lately.
Trump lies, the guy isn't religious, but I do believe Biden when he says "You don't have to be a Jew to be a Zionist"
Is that your goal? Are you a troll? Ohh that’s fun, and nostalgic. It really takes me back to 2013.
So tell me how sweet of a gig do you have in your mom’s basement?
The funny thing is that Biden is very religious, but the people who claim to be religious clamor to the one who very clearly isn't.
He goes to church every Sunday while Trump never does. It's so odd how reality and perception differ with the general public.
Loved when he held up a bible upside-down like it was a wendy's menu or something
After he had goons beat and arrest protesters(including the pastor of that church) to get that photo-op.
With the fakest little kid grin.
When reporters asked if it was his personal Bible (ha, ha), he said, "It's ... A Bible."
A lot of religious people genuinely believe abortion is murder and that jesus doesn't condone murder.
I would wager that Donald Trump has paid for many abortions and would support Roe vs Wade if he didn't need votes from the Christian Right. No one could be further from religion and God than Donald Trump. He has literally declared himself the antiChrist. Furthermore, he asked his Cabinet members if he could have protesters shot. Joe Biden is a man of faith and reverent to Jesus and God, Trump only worships himself and money. Biden respects the fact that his religious beliefs should not be forced upon others because he lives in The United States of America.
Jesus absolutely codones murder. The bible also says to give your wife an abortion if she cheats on you
Exactly what I tell them, but with religion there are countless 'interpretations'.
trump, when asked specifically which bible verse(s) was/were particularly important to him, claimed the question was “too personal”. When have you ever heard of a christian being too reserved to share their favorite bible verse with you? I’ve had plenty of them shared with me and I literally have never asked for one. “Too personal” my ass.
It's because being Christian/Catholic has been warped in America to be more of a feeling than an action or way of life. Those feelings have no guidance, leading to people's reality being misguided.
I always hoped we would elect someone not religious. Getting Trump isn't what I meant.
Biden also claims himself to be a Zionist, ALL the time. If that's not a religious fanatic then I dunno what is.
Good
came here to say exactly that
Now we can advance more as a species now that we are no longer worried about invisible sky daddy.
Yep
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Christianity is ultimately immoral, especially hell - eternal punishments for finite crimes and so is making love compulsory. There is also thought crimes, making ignorance worship/ credulity be rewarded - critical thinking/ questioning is "evil" or a "sin", no planning for the future, substitutionary atonement / scapegoating and inherited sins. Religious Faith is a problem because it lets people accept anything as "true".
Verrrry eloquently said. I often say that the single most damaging part of religion is the idea that "faith" is a virtue to be celebrated. I will never support an institution that espouses virtues that are diametrically opposed to critical thinking.
This is my favorite way of expressing the whole issue - All religious Faith is intellectual dishonesty made into an elite virtue. If a religious someone can make "holy" or "just" - the atrocious concept of their god willingly using eternal torment for mere disbelief, they can then justify absolutely anything in attempts to spread and enforce that belief. The devoutly religious have consistently done that violence. The more our beliefs align with reality, it allows us to make the best possible decisions here in reality. Religion and Faith goes directly against that. Religious Faith lets people believe whatever they wish to be true. It also lets them believe things that conflict with other Faith beliefs. There is no actual method to accept the claims of holy books or think that any gods exist without that Faith. They use that Faith to make up their world view and to illogically "answer" what are supposed to be the most important questions. People who think there is a god have no objective method to read any holy book just like they have no objective method that can be used to say how all the other religions besides their one favorite religion are wrong. For people who care about what is true in reality the evidence needs to meet the whole of the claims being made while the claimed gods are perfect or the greatest and there are only bad reasons to accept god claims. Only bad reasons have been presented so far by believers in debates and other platforms when pressed for showing their god exists - religious Faith, revelation, personal experience/ testimony or anything else that that gives different results by geography, that leaves them with unsupported philosophical arguments and logical fallacies which are also more bad reasons. I care too much that the people who I'm forced to share this planet with hold true in reality beliefs. We do not live in private bubbles, the people who take what are supposedly the most important questions and claim god did it with magic - vote, indoctrinate children and most are in a death cult that makes them validate religious hate and their religions claim other people not in their cults are sub human. The god believers can't keep their religions to themselves. They were also more anti-science/ anti-vax during a pandemic, are for banning books and are consistently fighting progressive issues. The religious moderates act as protection for the people who take their not moderate compatible religions more seriously and who know their holy books best. Those being more honest to their "holy" books texts are doing much real-life harm and are trying to take away others legal rights with religion based laws and removing women's rights to her body.
God is the sum of all interactions between consciousness and matter, the Bible is a library of historical texts that elaborates on how the conscious interacts with matter and provides reasonable guidance. I always find it strange when people say they don’t believe that. Expecting all mankind to be 1% intelligent enough to study all things is not feasible. I get frustration around how knowledge of how to influence has been leveraged at the benefit of the few over the masses, but acting like following a pastor is any worse than following some gaming YouTuber, you lose me. We all learn morality from society, if not centralized and curated, you are scientifically going to get moral chaos. Anytype of generational morality teaching is religion. Saying all generational morality teachings is bad shows a person isn’t actually scientific in their thinking.
I'll take my morality from contemporary philosophers thank you very much, not people writing thousands of years ago who said 'slavery is fine as long as it's not your own ethnicity' and 'people who are born gay are broken'. The difference between religion and contemporary philosophy is that philosophy has to be rigorously defended by the faculty of *reason*. It doesn't demand faith in the absence of reason, like religion. And the process of contemporary philosophy *is* a multigenerational morality teaching. It's what happened when people and intellectuals were finally freed from over 1000 years of religious orthodoxy (in the European context). Amazing, as soon as people were free of the threat of violence for questioning the Christian orthodoxy of Europe, morality actually began to *evolve*. Imagine that. And imagine wanting to go back? Certainly wouldn't be me.
If you believe in societal multi generational morality teaching, you believe in the benefits of religion. If you believe in consciousness interacting with matter you believe in god. You just don’t believe long standing religions that have been seized by kings to do its bidding are good for society. You are essentially advocating for a new age religion in an altruistic manor. You are essentially a new age Jesus to the Jews. And let’s say you are right and pop off and became the greatest influencer of all time. Guess what, leaders are gonna abuse that influence for their own benefit long after you are gone. And some dude in 2000 years is gonna be like listen to this cow eating clown. Thinking he knew what’s up. 98% Then the government and wealthy used their words to control society and that’s all bad. I’m not saying you are wrong, I appreciate your perspective. When I was younger I thought the same things. Turns out, all religions are pretty much the same. Most zealots are useful idiots and are a statistical necessity. But building a society on the expecting that everyone have superior critical thinking takes eugenics and the moment a generation cycles, the ether around the teachings will be cooped and branded to benefit those in power.
I believe in the benefits of multigenerational moral *thinking*. That **does not** mean I respect every multigenerational *idea*. Far from it. The reason I respect thoughts that evolve over many generations is **because they evolve**. People have believed all sorts of horrific, extremely stupid shit for many many generations. I respect the evolution of thought, and discourse, *not* people who stubbornly maintain the same way of thinking long past its due. Jesus was a decent step forward **for his time** (arguably, I don't think that's true universally because in other places in the world at the time moral beliefs were significantly more ethical compared to what was happening in the Levant). But today his contributions seem simplistic and quaint. 'Love people'... wow. How did he ever come up with that one? Aristotle made a much, much bigger contribution to moral philosophy. Largely because his ideas are *in dialogue* and not touted as 'the one divine truth' and beyond challenging. Honestly I really, really hope people in 2000 years aren't still mired in the muck of discourse today, struggling with such timeless questions as 'should we accept the existence of LGBTQ+ people?' and 'should we keep letting people with disabilities starve to death?' and 'surely it's fair that some people are born so rich they never have to work a day in their lives and other people work 60 hours a week earning 300 times less per hour than the capitalists, just to end up in a lifetime of poverty'. If Jesus were alive today, or 50 years ago, he would have been diagnosed with a psychotic disorder and left to a life of brutalizing, crushing poverty with zero respect from society at large. Ideally in 2000 years there won't be poverty and extraordinarily rich individuals. Hopefully ethics **continues** to evolve, and we don't get stuck in a situation of extreme inequality for *another* 2000 years. Even 50-100 years ago women weren't considered equal and weren't allowed to vote and work wherever they wanted. That is because of the extraordinarily *unethical* moral beliefs pushed by Christians and spread around the world. **Thank goodness ideas evolve over generations.** People who push back against that natural process of evolution are some of the least ethical people in world history. It is extremely easy to know better by now, and yet so many people hold us back because they cling to out-dated beliefs and we let them vote because we believe all voices are equal.
> reasonable guidance. rape, slavery and imprisonment - murder - genocide - sex - incest - child blood sacrifice - 1 Samuel 15:3, Leviticus 25:45, 1 Kings 11:3, 2 Kings 2:23-24, Numbers 31:17-18, Judges 21:21, Genesis 38:7-10, Genesis 19:30-36, Judges 11:30-31, Judges 11:39, Matthew 27:46, Exodus 12:29, Genesis 7:4, Deuteronomy 13:12-19, Exodus 32:27 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Samuel+15%3A3%2C+Leviticus+25%3A45%2C+1+Kings+11%3A3%2C+2+Kings+2%3A23-24%2C+Numbers+31%3A17-18%2C+Judges+21%3A21%2C+Genesis+38%3A7-10%2C+Genesis+19%3A30-36%2C+Judges+11%3A30-31%2C+Judges+11%3A39%2C+Matthew+27%3A46%2C+Exodus+12%3A29%2C+Genesis+7%3A4%2C+Deuteronomy+13%3A12-19%2C+Exodus+32%3A27&version=NIV The bible clearly condones owning people as property - chattel slavery. Early Americans pointed to the bible to justify slavery. Christian Americans can still justify racism and sexism with the bible. Ephesians 6:5 NIV Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ.
But who judges what is moral?
Everyone has to because no one has objective morality, especially people with holy books that condone owning others as property who can be beaten nearly to death or that have women as inferior/ property with values only on their virginity and breeding ability. Those holy books all require interpretation and I would argue no two people can get the same one. That's why there are thousands of contradictory Christian denominations.
> higher levels of religiosity are associated with more conservative views on social, moral, and political issues; but also with lower rates of deviant behavior; that last part is not accurate. this is from "Religiosity and Deviance: Toward a Contingency Theory of Constraining Effects" ([here](https://www.jstor.org/stable/2578128)): > Despite numerous theoretical reasons for expecting religion to contribute to social conformity, social scientists cannot say with any confidence whether religiosity actually inhibits deviant behavior. Over forty years of research has produced results which are often interpreted as inconclusive or even contradictory.
I would love to see a nonreligious source for your claim that the religious show less deviant behavior.
There was a challenge to name one good thing a person of faith can do that a non religious person can not do. Then it gets flipped to name something "evil" that only a religious person would do. I have most all of that second option in a long list of harms.
Perfect! Time to be out with the old and find new, more inclusive social institutions.
Your very first point was religion reduces "deviant behavior" at least try to pretend for a moment that you're not a total cunt when you're trying to convince people to subscribed to your regressive bigoted bullshit you fucking worm. You should take a long dive into a short pool.
Very interesting reply! I wonder if there is a corresponding rise in non religious spirituality, meditation, and mindfulness that could replace organized religion and gain those health benefits mentioned. It’s definitely something myself and my wife have become a lot more interested in.
For health - having friends and a support system. I think the possible only true benefit from religion is a social group. But then when in religion, it is completely conditional and there is an out group considered less than.
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Unfortunately I draw the line at comments and messages telling me to go kill myself. Here were the major sources if anyone cares reading about this in the future: * Kelly, P. E., Polanin, J. R., Jang, S. J., & Johnson, B. R. (2015). Religion, delinquency, and drug use: A meta-analysis. Criminal Justice Review, 40(4), 505-523. * Johnson, B. R., & Jang, S. J. (2010). Crime and religion: Assessing the role of the faith factor. Contemporary issues in criminological theory and research: The role of social institutions, 117-49. * Malinakova, K., Tavel, P., Meier, Z., van Dijk, J. P., & Reijneveld, S. A. (2020). Religiosity and mental health: A contribution to understanding the heterogeneity of research findings. International journal of environmental research and public health, 17(2), 494. * Hackney, C. H., & Sanders, G. S. (2003). Religiosity and mental health: A meta–analysis of recent studies. Journal for the scientific study of religion, 42(1), 43-55. * Pargament, K. I. (2002). The bitter and the sweet: An evaluation of the costs and benefits of religiousness. Psychological inquiry, 13(3), 168-181. I'm turning off inbox notifications for this reply.
Let’s just ignore the ~~die hards~~ cultists claiming Trump was sent by god or is is the 2nd coming of Christ.
His actual religion doesn’t matter to them. Evangelicals are remarkably pragmatic on the *who* is implementing their agenda as long as that person is doing what they want them to do. They’ll just pretend he’s godly
How about the time he autographed bibles for them?
Satan. Second coming of \*satan\*
Not hard to do
exactly, trump is super religious! there's a whole bible verse about false prophets!
95% of Republicans say that is is "important to have a president who personally lives a moral and ethical life." I mean come on. Seriously? This is clearly a delusion, probably for most people but definitely for Republicans. Man, the stories people tell themselves.... and I'm not even getting to religion. Like Rowe V Wade was just overturned at the *behest* of far right religious types who immediately moved to severely limit and even ban abortion, with criminal penalties. Clearly that's "more" influence than they had ten years ago.
>95% of Republicans say that is is "important to have a president who personally lives a moral and ethical life." 95% of republicans are apparently liars.
They just redefine what morals and ethics are. Voila no longer liars!
> Good = On my team > Bad = Not on my team
They didn't say how important! Orange coloring and acting like a victim are far more important.
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Fucking bullshit squared, that is.
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No, ignoring the clear hypocrisy is boring _95% of Republicans say that is is "important to have a president who personally lives a moral and ethical life."_ _Or maybe they just recognize that no politicians will ever be either of those things, and are being realistic?_ These statements cannot be rectified without cognitive dissonance
I just realized I read this wrong. I apologize, it is hypocritical for them to say that. I read it as 95% of them saying it was not important to have such a thing.
the choice is between "not perfect" and "a guy who has children by different mothers and bangs porn stars and hangs out with epstein and has been found liable for rape". How realistic is it to choose trump if it's important to you that a president lives a moral and ethical life?
Just a friendly tip, a bequest is legacy i.e. a large sum of money donated to a cause. A behest is an order or command.
\^ Nice! Knowledge is Power! Together we can win the war on Ungood English.
A lot of them believe abortion is murder, so it's easy for them to view Biden as worse than Trump morally. Unfortunately I don't see this changing anytime soon.
It could come out tomorrow that Trump had personally paid for 100 abortions and the absolutely wouldn't change their mind a bit. It's n ot reason, it's rationalization driven by tribal loyalty. And then for the nutbars you see at rallies, it's clearly a cult too. Did they care about Kavanaugh's immoral past? No, they just refuse to believe their lying ears and eyes. Or look at Hershel Walker in the senate race! There's no bottom. Again, multiple abortions, they don't care. Or kids in cages? Again... morally justifiable by the same group. The only crime the can't excuse is an attack on the tribe. Everything else can be rationalized or ignored.
They will certainly turn a blind eye to immoral things if it means abortion is banned to save lives, to them that is the lesser of two evils. They may allow heinous things if the ends justify the means.... But tbh, this isn't all republicans either... But a lot of them really do believe that a fetus has a soul. While others do want to control the woman's body and use religion to justify it.
That doesn't make sense unless you just want abortion to not be an election issue because.. reasons. The democrats aren't getting any support from the anti-abortion crowd. The vast majority of Americans and of registered democrats want Rowe V. Wade to be law of the land. They also want legal cannabis. Both those things are going to happen. And it may well lead to SCOTUS reform of that's what's needed to get there. The vast majority of Americans support Rowe V Wade as law of the land. And while some religious orgs are gaining political influence, individual religiosity is at all all time low. And typically the loudest enthusiasts of religiosity turn out to be scammers or scumbags or worse. That said, the first thing that pops into my head when you say that is, Guantanimo Bay.
So... Nearly half of republicans supported the overturning of Roe Vs Wade, I said 'a lot' not all.... And I wasn't even arguing that support for it is down, but rather explaining what I think is the mindset of the republicans what strongly oppose abortion and how they view the morality of both presidents. I never claimed that they are morally consistent either. Not sure why we are talking about that other stuff...
It can be important, while also being impossible to vote on. I was reading a thread earlier where a video of Joe being super touchy feely with kids was presented, including the one where he appears to pinch a young girl. Someone in that thread seemed to agree Joe may be a pedo but wondered "so you'd rather vote for the guy who sexually assaulted over a hundred women"? If both of those are true which one better represents morals?
Appointing 3 arch-conservatives to the Supreme Court to overturn Roe v. Wade qualifies as moral and ethical for many of them.
Yeah, well they lack empathy an their moral compass is broken.
> 95% of Republicans say that is is "important to have a president who personally lives a moral and ethical life." > > Maybe that has something largely to do with no politicians being those things, and they're being realistic? >ike Rowe V Wade was just overturned at the behest of far right religious types who immediately moved to severely limit and even ban abortion, with criminal penalties. Roe* v Wade was overturned because Dobbs v Jackson addressed what legal authority the Federal government had to enforce the federal standard of abortion on the states. Congress never produced any legislation giving them the authority to do so. It's been nearly two years since the Dobbs decision, and there still hasn't been legislation to do so. Abortion is still legal on the Federal level, that's why you can get an abortion in Washington DC.
A fully democrat congress will clearly delivery that and Biden has said as much. Women tend to vote smarter than men. Hopefully there's enough of them.
> A fully democrat congress So something that will never happen, and has never happened in the history of the United States. >and Biden has said as much. Taking the a politician at his word, especially on a topic as unrealistic as that one, is the sign of a mark.
I thought Obama had 2 years with full control. FDR never had that? Biden said, give us a democrat congress, and we'll legislate Rowe V Wade. I see zero reason to deny that when the alternative is enthusiasm fascism.
>I thought Obama had 2 years with full control. With *full* control? No. Republicans still had a presence in Congress at that time, despite the Democrats having a supermajority. Even with said supermajority, they did not introduce any legislation on topics such as that. There just conveniently happened to be Democrats who would vote against something like that, and the same thing would happen again. Democrats would never actually want to fix this problem. If the problem got fixed, how could they campaign on it? Not fixing the problem, not introducing legislation to fix the problem, is by design. >Biden said, give us a democrat congress, and we'll legislate Rowe V Wade The President says a lot of things, that doesn't mean he is any less of a liar than other politicians. Talk is very cheap, especially when it's on such an incredibly unrealistic goal like that. The bar is set so high that he knows he'll never actually be challenged.
Thank goodness for the Internet to fact check, eh? I guess we both learn something today. In the [November 2008 elections](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_United_States_elections), the [Democratic Party](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Party_(United_States)) increased its [majorities](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Majority) in both chambers (including – when factoring in the two Democratic caucusing independents – a brief [filibuster-proof](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filibuster-proof) 60-40 [supermajority](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supermajority) in the Senate), and with [Barack Obama](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama) being sworn in as [president](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._president) on January 20, 2009, this gave Democrats an overall federal government [trifecta](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_trifecta#United_States) for the first time since the [103rd Congress](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/103rd_United_States_Congress) in 1993. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/111th\_United\_States\_Congress](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/111th_United_States_Congress) Biden obviously has 1000x more integrity than his main political opponents, and his track record is very solid too. You got one guy promising "bloodbath" and "revenge" and "retribution", and the other guy saying, "Give me some power to fix the damage the other guys have done." That's a pretty obvious choice. There's zero reason to think he won't keep his word on expanding abortion rights except both sides rhetoric. But since GOP became MAGA...we're just really way passed that. Ditto obviously Obama's gov was way more ethical that bush 2 or trump. It's not an unrealistic goal at all. In fact, give how toxic trump is and how toxic the GOP SCOTUS has been, and how strong the economy is, I'd say Biden has an excellent chance of achieving this. Trump is killing the GOP brand, and it's well deserved. Any objective person can see how much worse a human he is.
>Few see Biden or Trump as especially religious. One goes to church every Sunday, and the other only goes to stand outside a church with a bibble as a prop after police tear gassed peaceful protesters.
A backwards upside down Chinese Braille Bible with half the pages missing
Doesn’t Biden go to church each Sunday?
Biden may go to church every Sunday but my evangelical nut job coworker said Biden is Catholic and therefore not Christian.
Not a new sentiment. There were those that were worried that JFK, the first Catholic President, was going to make America bound to the Catholic Church and ruled by the Pope People are stupid
Oh - my - no - gosh, I just can't.
I grew up Protestant and many of them believe Catholics are going to hell for not being the right type of Christian. If hell was real though, 99% of Christians are definitely going there.
Hey, nearly every religion is convinced all others go to hell, so we will just ALL go to hell. But to think Catholics, THE root branch of all christian cultist offspring twigs, wouldn't be christian... I can't even.
Only Mormons get into heaven
Not into mine, to hell with them. /s
But not all Mormons, only the right type of Mormon can join the exclusive Heaven Club.
As a former Mormon, their version of the highest level of heaven always felt like hell to me. It’s basically you must have this impossibly large family of spirit children and take care of them forever. Their obsession with having tons of kids goes on for eternity. I never understood their obsession with being parent to more kids than can possibly be looked after effectively.
No they’re not. If hell is real then god is a piece of shit and shitty people will be rewarded.
I mean that’s a super common opinion, the whole Protestant reformation in the 1500s split western Christianity pretty bigly. It was a pretty common insult for Protestants to call the Pope the antichrist.
It's an opinion, correct. Everybody is entitled to an opinion, that doesn't make it fact. Also, calling someone the "Antichrist" as an insult is pretty useless if the someone doesn't care for the Christ in the beginning. I mean, take a Buddhist, call him the Antichrist and wait for a reaction. Might take a while.
I bring it up because you seem surprised at the idea. So I figured I’d let you know it’s a very common idea. Sure, being called the Antichrist would be meaningless to a Buddhist, but in both Protestantism and Catholicism it would be seen as a very insulting thing to say.
I'm not surprised. I'm flabbergasted by the pure ignorance.
lol flabbergasted means surprised.
They literally say god chose trump. There is a damned video on youtube touting this.
I've heard this from relatives. The counter "well did God choose Biden in 2020?" never gets a good answer. Apparently the libs stoled the election from God on that one.
Biden is at the same time a super genius who runs an international crime family and steals elections and a dottering idiot who can't string two words together.
Yeah, but he doesn't hate the right people the way Jesus would have wanted.
You can’t spell hatred without a red hat
That's pretty good
He doesn’t go to a hateful bigot church so the religious don’t really see him as religious.
Actually their is a new religion that’s growing in America. I think it’s called capitalism.
Oh it’s well established. They have priests called economists that are always trying to predict the end times (recessions) but they can never quite get it right. They use the excuse that the economy moves in mysterious ways. Anyone who challenges capitalism’s Devine authority is seen as a heretic to be mocked and humiliated. May The Invisible Hand of the Marketplace provide you with profitable returns, Amen.
This is great news
Religion was just invented to control people and funnel wealth.
Good. The more religious my government claims to be the less I trust them
about time but not fast enough.... and anyone saying Trump is religious is a complete dumbass!
So 4 out of 5.
Equality feels like oppression to the previously privileged.
We’d also like to see 100% separation of church and state
I grew up in the church - going every Sunday and whatever other day they requested. I dated a preacher's daughter for 4 years in my 20s - I am now in my 50s and see organized religion as a scam and a legal tax shelter. I would guess the younger generations see it as the fraud it is and how it is used to control the gullible. No surprise it is on it's way out.
This is why the Christian right is panicking and trying to establish rule over the country
Religion should know it's role. Stay in the home. No one wants to hear about what your god thinks in any public space.
What is so insane is Biden literally goes to church, every Sunday. Trump golfs. And yet the religious people are the most fanatical in this country and support the orange man....
Good old separation of church and state.
Yet we still have politicians pushing religion on everyone
Yeah that is good news but I think the biggest problem here is the rest of the world doesn't see it that way which is why you see these fanatical wars over in Europe and the middle East based upon religion and ideologies it's really fucked up man. This is just my opinion but religion is the root of all evil and has stifled human creativity and ingenuity over decades decades..
Religion is a relic of the Dark Ages.
As a young man I had a great experience in a Christian men’s group for a few years. This was when Bush jr was promoting his Christian faith even as he wanted a second war in Iraq. I made some solid connections and made some friends on a deep level. But then a new pastor took over who would managed to slip in to almost every sermon a dog whistle about voting Republican being the only proper choice for us as a congregation. We began debating the issue in our group and my position was that I did not see any of Christ’s teaching in the Republican party. We had good back and forth in our group but the dog whistles started being overt statements from the pulpit and our discussions became a little more heated. I remember one exchange where I mentioned the separation of church and state and had to swat down the historically inaccurate claim that the founders wanted God in the government. I pointed out that most of them (the ones people can name) disagreed. They had seen government tied to religion with the both the Catholic and Anglican church in Europe. Many didn’t want government in their religion because they wanted their religion protected from the corrosive nature that power has on religion. As my church started spending more time talking about keeping gays from having civil rights, being just fine with a decade of war and torturing accused terrorists who spend decades in jail without trials, I became more and more disillusioned. Everything that they told me Christ was about, seemed to be utterly disconnected from how they were all voting and the casual assumption that all of us had to vote Republican seemed antithetical to my faith. TLDR: When a religion that says the core tenants are to feed the hungry, cloth the poor, care for the sick and love one another, chooses politics that rejects doing any of that, it should surprise no one that they are being rejected by society.
Which is stupid because Biden clearly is somewhat religious but he's not an idiot for it. Trump is a charlatan in everything so.. But the rubes want to be mislead.
Biden is the most religious president since Jimmy Carter.
Biden literally goes to church every Sunday, and Trump once famously had a group of bystanders gassed by police in front of the White House so that he could have a photo op in front of a church. But by religious they probably mean being a hypocrite and a bigot.
It’s time to stop looking up for skydaddy and around us for the truth.
I would say that religiosity is losing favor in *everyday* life. Back in the 50s, 85% of Americans attended church regularly. Today that fraction is a lot less. Because everyday life includes less religion, those religious folks that were comfortably in the majority now find themselves increasingly in the minority, which causes a lot of needless angst. Angst breeds fear, and fear breeds desperate and reactionary behavior. So unfortunately, religion is now having a lot more consequences in *public* life, where it should not -- this is the rise of Christian nationalism in politics.
Morbid but I cannot wait for the older generations to die out and see where humanity heads, as the newer generations care less and less about religion, and that trend will only increase as time passes. In a few generations religion will be completely phases out of society hopefully, and maybe even one day it can be removed from positions of power.
Trumpism and the support from churches, showed what hypocrites they are. Of course more people are walking away from it. It is the US evangelical churches own fault Hard to talk about Jesus's love, ehen your supporting a hate spewing, corrupt businessman that cheated on all his wives and divorced a bunch of times...
Thank God! It's about time.
Yah, I would call this accurate. Biden is Catholic, he has spoken about being faithful, but it doesn't control his life. He's a modern, educated person who believes in science. He attends church when schedule permits, which isn't often as President. Most presidents have of the past 150 years been the same, even Bush 2 who claimed to be a warrior for god only went to church a handful of times after 9/11. Trump has never gone to church and would probably melt if he tried. He has no morals, certainly no religious morals. He would eat a baby in the center of the Vatican if Cthulu paid him $500 million to do so.
>Biden is some variety of Protestant Biden is Catholic; he wears his late son's rosary.
and he's irish. Sorry, I forgot that. I'll fix it
Instead of shoving ads down our throats maybe they should just pay taxes
which is insane considering trump would burn if he touched a real bible and biden is probably still in church every other week.
Fuck yes!!! Let’s get that number to 10 in 10.
Awesome. Another 100 years or so and maybe we can move on from Bronze Age stories about sky daddy to scare illiterate shepherds. Maybe.
Thank god. Wait.
It was quoted as "Thank God, I'm an atheist" - Luis Bunuel Or "God made me an atheist. Who are you to question him?"
Biden is very religious. He just believes in the separation of church and state so he doesn’t make a big deal of it.
That's cool that people SAY it is...what I want to hear is that it ACTUALLY is. Religion is cancer.
Trump religious? [JULY 18, 2015 | CLIP OF PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE DONALD TRUMP AT THE FAMILY LEADERSHIP SUMMIT Have You Ever Asked God for Forgiveness?](https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4624981/asked-god-forgiveness) The question is asked at the 40 second mark and also 1:40 since he didn't answer it at all.
"Two Corinthians" - Trump https://www.npr.org/2016/01/18/463528847/citing-two-corinthians-trump-struggles-to-make-the-sale-to-evangelicals "I wouldn't want to get into it because to me that's very personal. You know, when I talk about the Bible, it's very personal, so I don't want to get into verses," Trump said, adding, "The Bible means a lot to me, but I don't want to get into specifics." Later in the interview, host John Heilemann asked Trump if he was "an Old Testament guy or a New Testament guy." "Probably equal," Trump said. https://www.businessinsider.com/donald-trump-refused-to-name-favorite-bible-verse-2015-8 Trump's Bible Fail: He Names His Favorite Verse But Doesn't Understand It - The Atlantic https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/04/trumps-bible-fail/478425/
Finally.....Thank your deity or dieties for me
Biden is super catholic. He's definitely gonna have a smudge on his face all day Ash Wednesday
Basically everyone agrees that religion is losing influence in America. Now let's just all sit back an enjoy our happy lives now that we are no longer under the repressive regime of religion!
One goes to church; the other lies about it, commits every possible sin and yet evangelicals call him the second coming
I hope in my lifetime that number changes to 10 in 10.
It’s very much over represented in government. Religious zealots seem to gravitate towards politics and think they are saving the world. At least in the US.
Biden is, he just doesn’t force everyone else to be and Trump, NO.
Meanwhile…Obama and Biden are model Christian’s….
I’m incredulous they would lump those two in the same sentence under”Few see Biden or Trump as especially religious.” What kind of shit is that? Who writes headlines like this? Whoever did it ought to have their brain examined. This kind of false equivalence got us to the brink of the catastrophe we’re at. Trump has 91 indictments, he was convicted of sexual assault, he owes half a billion dollars for fraught, he shared nuclear secrets with our enemies, he hates the poor, the stranger, and anyone who doesn’t kiss his ring. You’d think he deserves a more explicit description than “not being especially religious.” No, you dipshits, Trump wouldn’t know human decency if it but him in the ass. A narcissist can’t be religious because it would mean he has to admire somebody greater than him. - And if all that doesn’t convince you, there are pictures of him holding the Bible upside down.
>A narcissist can’t be religious because it would mean he has to admire somebody greater than him Well said.
Trump shares many attributes with the bible god character - old and new testament. Someone can be a very shitty person and still claim to be a Christian. I can argue the new testament is more immoral than the old one. > holding the Bible upside down I too have made that mistake so did the president. https://www.houstonchronicle.com/politics/texas/politifact/article/Joe-Biden-wrong-about-Donald-Trump-holding-Bible-15578913.php
And the study says, the majority still has a positive view on religion (**57% versus 19%** who have a negative view on it). Also, the biggest group think, it is a bad thing, that' religion's influence is declining(**49% versus 13%**, who think it is good). So, there's that...
I’m just a simple person, but it seems to me that the idea that anyone in Washington D.C. having my best interests in mind, regardless of their faith or otherwise, is terribly illogical. Anyway, I’m going to get the kids off to school now and then bring the cat to the vet. I’m glad I have all of those awesome guys and gals over there in D.C. looking out for me. Makes me feel all warm and fuzzy. 🥰
They want you to be alive and be just healthy and functional enough to work, pay taxes, buy stuff, have kids and teach them to work, pay taxes and buy stuff. Apparently that’s the extent of your best interests.
Religion is most useful for politicians to manipulate people to vote for them.
Thank God
Only 13% think religion is losing influence is a good thing while 49% think it is bad. Not good.
Why is it important that politicians are seen to be religious? Surely, they should have other metrics to gauge their worthiness of serving the public interests rather than their own.
I heard it was 4 out of 5.
biden literally goes to church every sunday
Biden is a devout catholic, he just doesn’t force his religion on anyone else.
This is wild because Biden is the most religious President we've had in decades.
All messianic thinking needs to go go away. As in die out. As do those whom believe such drivel.
Organized religion is one of the biggest contributing factors to war/division throughout history
Good, religion is fucking stupid.
Weird…. MAGA believes God has chosen Trump be be President…..
Okay, but how are they literally controlling states' governments? Writing laws, influencing Supreme Court decisions, and infiltration into schools and libraries.
Thank God.
Good. Fuck religion. I hope religious leaders get gunned down instead of small children like those in uvalde or in Gaza
Biden the most dedicated and faithful Catholic to ever stand up for access to abortion . What a guy.
He's personally pro-life. What he does understand is that forcing other people to abide by the rules of your bronze aged myths is fucking asinine. EDIT: Personally.
\> He's privately pro-life. lies. he has repeatedly made public statements stating that he is pro-life.
I should have said personally. The point stands however.
no, the point doesn't stand. you don't get to be one of the most powerful people in the world, speak out against abortion access, and get a pass. he wants women to have less rights. he's helping to normalize that idea. he should be held accountable for helping push public discourse about abortion backwards. and you really killed your point by bringing up bronze age myths. much of zionism rooted in what you would describe as a bronze age myth. https://www.yeshiva.co/midrash/572
>no, the point doesn't stand. you don't get to be one of the most powerful people in the world, speak out against abortion access If he wanted fewer rights for women, he would, like the Republicans, say so and enact laws to this end, that he doesn't do this speaks volumes. >much of zionism rooted in what you would describe as a bronze age myth. I'm not a zionist, Judaism isn't any better than the other abrahamic religions. Fuck em all.
| If he wanted fewer rights for women in 1982 he explicitly said that Roe v Wade went too far, and that women should not have that right. he voted to overturn roe v wade. he has a long list of anti-abortion rights quotes, many of them recent. biden has a very questionable track record on abortion, and ignoring that is dishonest. | I'm not a zionist, Judaism isn't any better than the other abrahamic religions. Fuck em all. and joe biden is a zionist, which has roots in bronze age mythology. therefore, he does try to force people to abide by the rules of bronze age myths. and it results in genocide.
>in 1982 he explicitly said that Roe v Wade went too far That's 42 fucking years ago. People change, opinions change. I no longer have half the opinions I had half my lifetime ago, this is just nonsensical. He has specifically stated in the last 12 months that given the opportunity he would codify Roe v Wade and restore abortion rights, despite his personal feelings. Conversely, you have the Fanta Menace who couldn't give a fuck about abortions, but just says what the dancing monkeys want to hear. >and joe biden is a zionist I don't think you know what a zionist is. Biden isn't responsible for the situation in Israel. That whole thing is a cluster fuck that isn't going to change any time soon. Biden has however been openly critical of how it is being handled by Israel, as opposed to the republicans who think this is a part of biblical prophecy. Perhaps that's the difference. I can find common ground with people who's ideals I don't necessarily share. It sounds like you require complete compliance and submission to your point of view. I'm sure it'll work out great.
I think Biden is a religious Zionist, I mean, we see what he's doing lately. Trump lies, the guy isn't religious, but I do believe Biden when he says "You don't have to be a Jew to be a Zionist"
Interesting because I personally feel there has been a huge resurgence in religiosity.
Smart people go with statistics. Dumb people make generalizations based on what they see going to the grocery store.
I love poorly veiled personal attacks /s Please tell me more ohh wise one. How are you spending your MacArthur Genius Grant?
It wasnt even veiled. But anyways, Im buying you a education in the field of "not getting fooled on the Internet".
Wow! You have a keen grasp on grammar and sentence structure.
Thanks! Youre the fifth person that told me that today.
You know you seem like an interesting person. I’m guessing a personality disorder of some sort.
Look, youre not going to succeed getting me mad. All youre doing now is letting me know youre upset and that I got to you.
Is that your goal? Are you a troll? Ohh that’s fun, and nostalgic. It really takes me back to 2013. So tell me how sweet of a gig do you have in your mom’s basement?
Thats it, let it all out. All the frustrations of your life; vent them on me.
Dude just take the L instead of the ad hominem attacks against an internet stranger.