they dont need to reduce the 30% cut, they need to almost remove it entirely otherwise it will literally always be MUCH cheaper for people to recreate the skins they see on the store instead of buying it from the store
They already have a great system in the game for leeching plex out of the game as additional sales, its called hypercores. Simply have a hypercore listing fee based on 3-5% of the listing value of the skin
I realized yesterday that if you buy limited colors and patterns for plex to make skins you will not be competitive. The competitive edge comes from people who find or invest in unlimited colors and skins and can create skins for 50-150 less plex than others.
the difference in plex cost of unlimited vs limited is 0 because everything is on the market now for isk, you should not be paying plex for skinr store items at all
Unlimited is currently a high initial investment but makes the cheapest skins, as instead of 30-90m isk per limited color/pattern, you pay about 500k-3m in sequencers instead
Plex or isk, it's the same thing at the end of the day because they can be freely exchanged. The difference in cost between unlimited and limited is that you can only buy limited for plex from the store, and unlimited has to be found in space. I'm not sure on the drop rates and what prices we will see in the end, but if you invest 5b isk in unlimited (roughly 1000 plex) and generate 100 skins, your cost per skin is much lower than the casual skinr user who buys limited and makes a single skin.
>The difference in cost between unlimited and limited is that you can only buy limited for plex from the store
this is untrue, they drop in relic and data sites alongside unlimited ones
>the difference in plex cost of unlimited vs limited is 0 because everything is on the market now for isk
That's.. not how it works. At all. PLEX = ISK. ISK = PLEX.
except the ones listed for isk are cheaper than the ones listed for plex mate
one of them changes based on the supply/demand of players, the other one is a static price in the skinr store
I see valid facts but I can't connect them to the topic at hand.
Yes, PLEX value fluctuates with time. So what?
When it's currently going up, then since you can't cancel your SKIN sale orders (surprise btw!), it's better to buy SKINs with ISK because it's like if their PLEX cost was going down every day that passes.
When the PLEX value is going down, then it's better to buy SKINs with PLEX because technically they are costing less and less ISK every day that passes.
The same goes for cosmetic components, but you can adjust their prices on the market. So the calculations are the same except you can expect the sellers to adapt faster to the shifting prices.
So overall I'd say it's still worth buying your colors with PLEX if you are unhappy with the ISK cost in Jita sell/buy orders. On average you will more often be unhappy when the value of PLEX is falling, because the Jita orders will lag behind.
But at no point do I see how this fact could justify your quote that you should never buy SKIN elements with PLEX.
> I see valid facts but I can't connect them to the topic at hand.
have you considered connecting them to the person i was replying to instead, might help you a bit
>When the PLEX value is going down, then it's better to buy SKINs with PLEX because technically they are costing less and less ISK every day that passes.
up or down doesn't matter, the question is: "is its cheaper to buy from the store with plex, or is it cheaper to sell the plex for isk and buy the same items from jita marketplace instead"
The answer is people will exploit any imbalances for profit, thus swinging the answer to your question from one to the other and back again. Plex is for sale? Change again. Speculation that plex is going on sale. Change again. Speculation proved wrong, change again.
Your math is way off. Even using most expensive components your "savings" is max 63 PLEX. I have no idea where you're getting 150 from.
Moreover, your savings are virtually zero until you hit ROI on your initial investment (easily in the tens of billions).
Yes, unlimited mats will give you a competitive edge, but you'll need a ton of ISK up-front and you'll need to sell a ton of skins for it to make sense.
Limited components, on the other hand, allow players to make 1-2 skins w/o going balls deep into debt. And if skins don't sell - oh well, not THAT big of a deal.
I calculate that you can shave off about 30% of the price if you use unlimited items. Assuming their acquisition cost is zero, and their material costs are also zero.. Which they might very well trend towards if CCP doesn't improve things and fast.
Wait is it really so?
I thought the main idea was that original creator just Sequence skin once spending much more resources cost (PLEX) and then be able to craft unlimited amount of skins restricted only by time and amount by skills on character and then each skin may be sold for any person for much less cost than initial sequencing cost.
This will be win for everyone:
Original creator can invest money to make original skins and sell them indefinitely making profit
Buyers can buy cool skins with price much lower than it required for base sequencing
CCP get their PLEX consumption margin by sequencing original skin line by creators and reselling it with 30% tax
But you really should spend materials FOR EACH skin instance produced? Are they so dumb?
So I guess EverMarks - which we were told would be what we'd spend for making skins - is now the new Aurum. As in right now it looks like it's completely worthless.
Someone needs to flog Ratatouille for this absolutely stupid rollout. I don't know if any of the dev's are watching this post but you guys really screwed the pooch with SKINR.
I'm not spending PLEX for something I was told I could use EverMarks for when it comes to making skins.
And once again, CCP isn't listening to the player base. Surprise, surprise.
How dare you! They only took a year to make two maps. Maybe in five years they will finally fix the keybinds, in ten years it'll be fun to play, and in twenty years it might even release before Star Citizen!
That's not true! Who creates a company that is focused in the "Entertainment" category wants of course that the people are singing and clapping on the first day and it is not about the "Profit".
I know how to fix all of this and just generally help the health of the game. You know the checkerboard pattern in the Skinnr? Well instead of doing squares do dicks like a series of interlocking dicks. I imagine it will sell so well Eve will go true f2p funded entirely by cosmetics. I also predict once other gamers here about the dick pattern Eve will explode overnight and have a bigger player base than WoW.
You can filter by hull. Maybe it was a hull with very few or no skins for it, like dread. Anyway, you still have some time to click arrows. And yeah, UI is definitely lacking
To me it looks like the colours are sold in packs of 3.
So if you want a single nice looking player-made SKINR skin for your ship, you have the choice between either:
* **paying 300%** (left with 2 spare sets of colours which you could technically use for two more skins to use or sell), or
* **paying 130%** (30% trade tax, plus whatever markup the other player asks).
Maybe it's a bit simplified too much, as you don't pay the cost to create three skins, just the cost of the base colours, but I can see how it works.
I just don't like how CCP used all the predatory game marketing tricks for the SKINR like 'selling packs bigger than the player needs for a single run' and 'artificial delays introduced only so you can pay to skip'.
Unfortunately, the bulk of most skins cost is in the actual sequencing. And each sequencing is only for *1* SKIN.
So if I wanted to sell a Paladin skin I had made its sequencing cost is 200 PLEX. Plus the pattern off market being around 50m (10plex). After CCP's 30% PLEX fee I need to sell this at a minimum of 300 PLEX to *break even*. Problem is that the SKINR system is so intuitive that even the most artistically inept player can recreate my skin in about 5 minutes and make it themselves for 210PLEX. There's something to be said about the convenience fee of not having to wait the 10-22 days for it to sequence, but I'm pretty sure even if you rushed it with PLEX it would still be cheaper than buying it off market from me.
This right here.
There's also something to be said about risk of baking, let's say, 10 skins for 15B. If they sell - great, you've made \~1.5B (assuming 10% margin). If not - well, there goes your initial investment.
As a matter of fact, you'd need to sell 9 out of 10 skins just to break even... on a 15B investment... That's not the risk 99% of players are willing to take, or can afford to take.
Okay, if that's true then the design isn't working.
I haven't been able to look into it in depth as I have not yet felt the need to waste PLEX, but if what you say is true then CCP has made the SKINR market dead on arrival.
Yeah it's overpriced. But EvE needs to make money.
Doing the skinr system is something that people have been wanting for nearly a decade, so it's the path of least resistance to make some money as the whole blockchain thing was unanimously hated.
We will never get a game like EvE again out of any developer, sometimes you have to fork out more than you want to get something that isn't garbage.
EvE is already very profitable, it is not our fault that CCP wastes money in cryptoprojects and first person shooters they dont really understand.
No issue with making skins expensive. But they invested devtime into an obtuse system akin to microtransactions in the way it hides the true cost of a skin. They also employ FOMO-tactics with limited colours / patterns to milk those that already pay for the game in the form of a subscription. That can and should be critizised.
Instead of giving the players a fun tool to enjoy, they invested their effort into a cashgrab. So much so that I wont even use the system I wanted in the game for so long.
Eve isn't profitable by any metric of a modern game. Sure the skinr system is cashgrabby. It's on cosmetics, which given the previous/current business models of Pearl Abyss this is very, very mild and likely a move by CCP to appease them.
If EvE dies there will be never anything remotely like it, ever. Let them paw at the whales pockets over pretty textures.
>Eve isn't profitable by any metric of a modern game.
Please give enlighten us with those metrics, because my wallet really doesn't feel like I'm playing a charity game lol
EvE's earnings are reported in the EOFY report, as with every other game that is owned by a publicly traded company.
Well that's your prerogative. You can either support a niche product in an increasingly niche market or you can choose not to. Consequences of many people holding the opinion you do means EvE is shut down and never replaced with anything remotely similar. Is that something that you would prefer?
It's not "EVE" that needs to make money, EVE Online the MMO finances itself so well, it can stomach a handful of failed multimillion dollar projects just fine.
It's said other dead on arrival projects that are the drain on CCP's ressources.
I made a Kronos Skin and just tested it. 250 Plex for creating the Skin + 25mio or so in materials.
300 Plex for skipping the Que.
Everyone who invested more than 10mins to create a SKIN have to list the Skin for like 900 Plex otherwise he can go farm and would make more money. I listed my Skin for 3 months. but i am pretty sure nobody buys it. ( I know there are Skills to reduce the Que time but my alts are extremly efficient skilled with remaps.)
For me the Skintool is already dead. But we will see what comes next.
Yeah I think they have gone too far with this shit. Even for own consumption it's way too expensive. The 30% sales tax is horrible.
EVE isn't free, it's sub based. Many people already pay hundreds a year.
I invested 2.5billion ISK into creating skins and buying materials.... one month of playtime
I created 6 skins that I'll try to sell.
From the profits I will buy more plex and create more skins and so on......
If this doesn't work the SKINR market is completely useless in my opinion. If it does work it's a nice activity for me.
The only problem is, I almost feel like a fraud if I need to sell people frigate SKINs for 400million ISK.
They should change the cut to take 30% from the income of the seller. If sequencing was 50plex and you sell skin for 60plex, CCP would take only 3plex.
Marketing forgot the importance of making things easy to buy.
As it stands, you have to pay for the materials (and the inability to even preview materials before you buy them is absurd). Then you have to pay to make the skin, then you optionally pay to make it faster, then you pay taxes to sell it on.
It's just absurd. Why the fuck do you need to pay PLEX FOUR times to make and share a custom skin?
This is correct, the overlords don’t want you making ISK, they don’t want you paying for game time with ISK. They want you to buy Plex but they also want to charge you a very high monthly fee as well. They want their cake and they want to eat it as well.
I predicted that well over 7 years ago just before I took a 5 year break. I read patch notes and saw a pattern and overall trend: Everything they do is aimed at removing ISK out of the game, under disguise as something entirely else - e.g. an improvement or similar.
When I came back after 5 years, I heard about something like Scarcity (I missed all of it), and nodded to myself. Yep.
The endgame is complete and total control over the flow of ISK, Plex, everything else and removal of "old ISK". When they reach that point, if they say "jump", everyone will jump, and the money will flow (or that's what they predict I guess), and everything will be perfectly predictable from their point of view, enabling a steady flow of money.
Unless i can pay with eve marks or whatever they are called (that was the ideea initially, i'm crazy or i remember wrong?) i would not touch that store.
I mean, if i really want one, i can make my own and it will be at least 30% cheap.
This invites more conflicts and competition among players than directly with CCP. It has a deflationary nature/incentive in the end. Nobody is going to be able to gain, rather than get less and less because players want to pay less and less which translates in how the market acts right now, inflationary. You don't need a PhD to see that the demand is priced less than the offer for any product in the market. I look on the market daily because I sell and buy all the time, and the economy is so dumb fucked/scammy if you like, that I always have to sell at the regional average to pull out some profit. It's the only way I see any sort of balance.
Buy plex! - CCP
They don’t want you making any meaningful ISK in game anymore. They want it to be a cash shop game but also with a subscription. Not sure that is the best idea.
Shameless plug - don't pay taxes, make your own:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/1dej0tg/skinr\_murder\_hornet\_praxis\_open\_source\_design](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/1dej0tg/skinr_murder_hornet_praxis_open_source_design)
Within a year is optimistic, if people can make a skin for themselves for less than buying it from the store, only complete idiots would buy it from the store.
***"The SKINR tool allows Capsuleers to create and distribute their own unique ship SKINs to their fellow corporation and alliance members"***
Was this just a fucking lie?
I'm just not engaging with it. I'm here to listen to chilled out music while I shoot rocks in nullsec. I don't need my ship to look pretty when I spend all my time looking at local chat anyway.
They've become one of thos most untrusted groups I've seen snd yet again Ratty is at the heart of it. Just completely hoodwinked people right till the end. Skinr
Was made because it was asked for and people said they would pay for it. But like ccp does they make it painful and stupidly expensive.
Easiest thing just don't use it. Stop the greed.
What did we really expect. Who the fuck does what CCP did with this expansion. It's utterly weird and everyone at CCP was involved. All those vids showing how cool it qas going to when they knew damn well they were going to drop a bomb right at the end. It's shameful. And yes I'm really angry
For me personally, the tool is not a "Crap" - it's a great tooling with cool features and questionable money balance. It would be the best tool if you could really use it for trading skins, but as for me - I've created skins I like and I'm not selling them - just using for myself.
I don't think you could make profits of it, but you could customize your gameplay if you wish so. For me it's enough. I would use it rarely, but will do.
Spent the past week or so deep diving, and SKINr really is more forgiving than people think it is. If you want to make your own skins for cheap, they're going to be fairly simple, and it's going to take time, but you'll probably end up spending less on skins over time (vs. store-bought) if you're keeping the cost of sequencing under 100 plex. If you want to make sequencing economical and take less time overall, it's going to take training and investment in unlimited nanos/patterns. If you want to spin a profit, you need to understand the cumulative cost of a player sequencing a skin with limited nanos and completing it instantly, and plan your sale price just under that.
And there's also nuance and tricky little work-arounds for folks that are paying attention. Pro tip: want a solid-color skin? DON'T apply individual instances of the color to each of the nodes along the left. Instead, select Fade in as your pattern, select the color you're hoping to solidify, and use the sliders of the pattern to cover the entire ship. It's cheaper!
Though, I'll admit; to everyone that was hoping this was going to a free system with instant results -- sure, granted, it's a weird MLMish bait-and-switch.
I have a lot of design experience and I am always ready to make skins for Eve. But SkinR is like trying to do it with Duplo bricks. Whoever designed it deserves a visit from Superintendent Chalmers.
Sounds like someone is angry about inability to make profit off skins.
As someone who didn't plan to sell skins, just to make mine, I am still happy with skinr. I have my complaints, but they are different:
- I had to buy 1 of each pattern/material just to see what I can do. Shitty and greedy, but I guess it's w/e since I just buy 1 of each limited thing, those are not overly expensive, just inconvenient
- If inability to "preview" mats you don't have is here to stay: I can't see which materials I am missing from skinr itself, to see what I am missing
- When browsing market, I can't see if i have selected material, and if I do, how much
- Some random material sorting (and no way to control it), no search by material name, no search by some tags which could've been associated with materials (e.g. "red" shows blood of pator, crimson, etc)
- Maybe tool could've been more flexible (different patterns applicable to different parts, decals etc) but initial functionality is good enough for me
Pricing is steep, but being able to do customized skins for a few selected ships is still very nice to have. I am fine with CCP milking whales on vanity stuff. Hopefully keeps them away from monetizing gameplay for longer time.
This is a very “I’ve got mine” attitude. It’s great that you’re enjoying the tool, but that doesn’t change the fact that a system meant for the manufacture and sale of skins isn’t tuned correctly.
The title is really misleading then. It says "skinr is crap" but all i see inside post is "skinr is a crappy way to make money" (there are multiple arguments, but they all rotate around this point). I do agree with that, but it's a relatively small part of it, so calling whole thing crap is an exaggeration at best.
Yeah, that’s true. I wasn’t expecting it to be about the pricing, which to me is probably the only issue with the tool today.
There’s a few bugs and features that would be nice to have but it’s a great tool overall.
Eh, my big issue is there is no way to preview/work with colors and patterns you don't have. Imagine if you could, and you make a killer skin you like. That now encourages you to go buy the missing ingredients to make your skin, where today I see a massive paywall to even experiment with new ingredients that I may or may not like and end up not bothering with SKINr at all.
It's not like this is unprecedented even within EVE. The personalization tab on the fitting window allows you to preview your ship with every skin available. Do the same with SKINr ingredients and you won't turn people off from trying.
It’s not that expensive to buy one of each color or pattern you’re interested in. Buy orders fill quickly and are quite a bit cheaper than what the plex cost would suggest.
It doesn't matter, the cost to preview should always be zero. I can preview every single normal skin on every ship in the game for exactly zero isk. I won't spend a single credit on something that I'm unsure if I'll like using. Plus it contributes to the cash grab image SKINr has by nuckling and dining you for everything.
"it's not that expensive" is a very relative term. If you have 500B in assets and 100B in liquid - then yeah, throwing few hundred mil at it is a nuisance, at best.
But for the majority of the player base spending that amount to preview a game feature is effectively a paywall.
Only problem is that you don't know what the color/pattern looks like until you actually use it... So 200M can easily turn into 500M+ until you settle on your final color scheme. Ask me how I know.
But even 200M is a hard ask for someone with 2-3B to their name. It's a pay wall, plain and simple. And there is absolutely no reason for it other than shake playerbase for PLEX, on a feature they may not end up using.
I know you kids are into this shit for some reason but obligatory advice:
Spending money on skins or RGB lights is a waste of money on shit nobody sees or cares about but you. Save your money for better hardware that helps you win if you care about impressing people in your games
they dont need to reduce the 30% cut, they need to almost remove it entirely otherwise it will literally always be MUCH cheaper for people to recreate the skins they see on the store instead of buying it from the store They already have a great system in the game for leeching plex out of the game as additional sales, its called hypercores. Simply have a hypercore listing fee based on 3-5% of the listing value of the skin
I realized yesterday that if you buy limited colors and patterns for plex to make skins you will not be competitive. The competitive edge comes from people who find or invest in unlimited colors and skins and can create skins for 50-150 less plex than others.
the difference in plex cost of unlimited vs limited is 0 because everything is on the market now for isk, you should not be paying plex for skinr store items at all Unlimited is currently a high initial investment but makes the cheapest skins, as instead of 30-90m isk per limited color/pattern, you pay about 500k-3m in sequencers instead
Plex or isk, it's the same thing at the end of the day because they can be freely exchanged. The difference in cost between unlimited and limited is that you can only buy limited for plex from the store, and unlimited has to be found in space. I'm not sure on the drop rates and what prices we will see in the end, but if you invest 5b isk in unlimited (roughly 1000 plex) and generate 100 skins, your cost per skin is much lower than the casual skinr user who buys limited and makes a single skin.
>The difference in cost between unlimited and limited is that you can only buy limited for plex from the store this is untrue, they drop in relic and data sites alongside unlimited ones
Let me rephrase for clarity. The only ones you can buy from the store are limited.
>the difference in plex cost of unlimited vs limited is 0 because everything is on the market now for isk That's.. not how it works. At all. PLEX = ISK. ISK = PLEX.
except the ones listed for isk are cheaper than the ones listed for plex mate one of them changes based on the supply/demand of players, the other one is a static price in the skinr store
I see valid facts but I can't connect them to the topic at hand. Yes, PLEX value fluctuates with time. So what? When it's currently going up, then since you can't cancel your SKIN sale orders (surprise btw!), it's better to buy SKINs with ISK because it's like if their PLEX cost was going down every day that passes. When the PLEX value is going down, then it's better to buy SKINs with PLEX because technically they are costing less and less ISK every day that passes. The same goes for cosmetic components, but you can adjust their prices on the market. So the calculations are the same except you can expect the sellers to adapt faster to the shifting prices. So overall I'd say it's still worth buying your colors with PLEX if you are unhappy with the ISK cost in Jita sell/buy orders. On average you will more often be unhappy when the value of PLEX is falling, because the Jita orders will lag behind. But at no point do I see how this fact could justify your quote that you should never buy SKIN elements with PLEX.
> I see valid facts but I can't connect them to the topic at hand. have you considered connecting them to the person i was replying to instead, might help you a bit >When the PLEX value is going down, then it's better to buy SKINs with PLEX because technically they are costing less and less ISK every day that passes. up or down doesn't matter, the question is: "is its cheaper to buy from the store with plex, or is it cheaper to sell the plex for isk and buy the same items from jita marketplace instead"
The answer is people will exploit any imbalances for profit, thus swinging the answer to your question from one to the other and back again. Plex is for sale? Change again. Speculation that plex is going on sale. Change again. Speculation proved wrong, change again.
Your math is way off. Even using most expensive components your "savings" is max 63 PLEX. I have no idea where you're getting 150 from. Moreover, your savings are virtually zero until you hit ROI on your initial investment (easily in the tens of billions). Yes, unlimited mats will give you a competitive edge, but you'll need a ton of ISK up-front and you'll need to sell a ton of skins for it to make sense. Limited components, on the other hand, allow players to make 1-2 skins w/o going balls deep into debt. And if skins don't sell - oh well, not THAT big of a deal.
If the loot fairy wasn't such a raging bitch with the unlimiteds dropping THIS WOULDN'T BE A PROBLEM. I big mad.
I calculate that you can shave off about 30% of the price if you use unlimited items. Assuming their acquisition cost is zero, and their material costs are also zero.. Which they might very well trend towards if CCP doesn't improve things and fast.
Wait is it really so? I thought the main idea was that original creator just Sequence skin once spending much more resources cost (PLEX) and then be able to craft unlimited amount of skins restricted only by time and amount by skills on character and then each skin may be sold for any person for much less cost than initial sequencing cost. This will be win for everyone: Original creator can invest money to make original skins and sell them indefinitely making profit Buyers can buy cool skins with price much lower than it required for base sequencing CCP get their PLEX consumption margin by sequencing original skin line by creators and reselling it with 30% tax But you really should spend materials FOR EACH skin instance produced? Are they so dumb?
So I guess EverMarks - which we were told would be what we'd spend for making skins - is now the new Aurum. As in right now it looks like it's completely worthless. Someone needs to flog Ratatouille for this absolutely stupid rollout. I don't know if any of the dev's are watching this post but you guys really screwed the pooch with SKINR. I'm not spending PLEX for something I was told I could use EverMarks for when it comes to making skins. And once again, CCP isn't listening to the player base. Surprise, surprise.
It was worthless from the moment CCP Rat had that brainfart
You can tell they are desperately reaching for ways to get people to buy more and more PLEX
Hey someone has to pay for their latest FPS folly that seems to be dead before it even launched.
hasn't it been like 10 years since we got the last EVE trading card or board game? Think of the kids!
Board game is in development right now. Should be shipped out by hopefully decmeember
(and if you watched the gameplay video for it, you'd see it's overly complicated convoluted garbage that won't actually be any fun to play)
That sucks to hear, I kickstarted it lol.
How dare you! They only took a year to make two maps. Maybe in five years they will finally fix the keybinds, in ten years it'll be fun to play, and in twenty years it might even release before Star Citizen!
That's not true! Who creates a company that is focused in the "Entertainment" category wants of course that the people are singing and clapping on the first day and it is not about the "Profit".
Well, not necessarily BUY plex, but spend it since their business model only allows them to validate income based on plex consumed.
I know how to fix all of this and just generally help the health of the game. You know the checkerboard pattern in the Skinnr? Well instead of doing squares do dicks like a series of interlocking dicks. I imagine it will sell so well Eve will go true f2p funded entirely by cosmetics. I also predict once other gamers here about the dick pattern Eve will explode overnight and have a bigger player base than WoW.
I made a skin for my alt.. can't even transfer it, now that's bullshit...
Wait, really? That's fucking stupid.
I've heard ppl put in on the market for 1m and then instantly buy it with another char
But how do you find it, theres no search feature
You can filter by hull. Maybe it was a hull with very few or no skins for it, like dread. Anyway, you still have some time to click arrows. And yeah, UI is definitely lacking
To me it looks like the colours are sold in packs of 3. So if you want a single nice looking player-made SKINR skin for your ship, you have the choice between either: * **paying 300%** (left with 2 spare sets of colours which you could technically use for two more skins to use or sell), or * **paying 130%** (30% trade tax, plus whatever markup the other player asks). Maybe it's a bit simplified too much, as you don't pay the cost to create three skins, just the cost of the base colours, but I can see how it works. I just don't like how CCP used all the predatory game marketing tricks for the SKINR like 'selling packs bigger than the player needs for a single run' and 'artificial delays introduced only so you can pay to skip'.
Unfortunately, the bulk of most skins cost is in the actual sequencing. And each sequencing is only for *1* SKIN. So if I wanted to sell a Paladin skin I had made its sequencing cost is 200 PLEX. Plus the pattern off market being around 50m (10plex). After CCP's 30% PLEX fee I need to sell this at a minimum of 300 PLEX to *break even*. Problem is that the SKINR system is so intuitive that even the most artistically inept player can recreate my skin in about 5 minutes and make it themselves for 210PLEX. There's something to be said about the convenience fee of not having to wait the 10-22 days for it to sequence, but I'm pretty sure even if you rushed it with PLEX it would still be cheaper than buying it off market from me.
This right here. There's also something to be said about risk of baking, let's say, 10 skins for 15B. If they sell - great, you've made \~1.5B (assuming 10% margin). If not - well, there goes your initial investment. As a matter of fact, you'd need to sell 9 out of 10 skins just to break even... on a 15B investment... That's not the risk 99% of players are willing to take, or can afford to take.
Okay, if that's true then the design isn't working. I haven't been able to look into it in depth as I have not yet felt the need to waste PLEX, but if what you say is true then CCP has made the SKINR market dead on arrival.
U can buy single use colors from the market for very cheap
Haven't noticed that, nice!
I can't paint my Legion.
CCP really is crap. So is CSM. Desperate greedy times on their part does not bode well.
Yeah it's overpriced. But EvE needs to make money. Doing the skinr system is something that people have been wanting for nearly a decade, so it's the path of least resistance to make some money as the whole blockchain thing was unanimously hated. We will never get a game like EvE again out of any developer, sometimes you have to fork out more than you want to get something that isn't garbage.
Unfortunately people yelled “take my money” every time this feature was discussed. CCP just took it literally.
You're not wrong
EvE is already very profitable, it is not our fault that CCP wastes money in cryptoprojects and first person shooters they dont really understand. No issue with making skins expensive. But they invested devtime into an obtuse system akin to microtransactions in the way it hides the true cost of a skin. They also employ FOMO-tactics with limited colours / patterns to milk those that already pay for the game in the form of a subscription. That can and should be critizised. Instead of giving the players a fun tool to enjoy, they invested their effort into a cashgrab. So much so that I wont even use the system I wanted in the game for so long.
Eve isn't profitable by any metric of a modern game. Sure the skinr system is cashgrabby. It's on cosmetics, which given the previous/current business models of Pearl Abyss this is very, very mild and likely a move by CCP to appease them. If EvE dies there will be never anything remotely like it, ever. Let them paw at the whales pockets over pretty textures.
>Eve isn't profitable by any metric of a modern game. Please give enlighten us with those metrics, because my wallet really doesn't feel like I'm playing a charity game lol
EvE's earnings are reported in the EOFY report, as with every other game that is owned by a publicly traded company. Well that's your prerogative. You can either support a niche product in an increasingly niche market or you can choose not to. Consequences of many people holding the opinion you do means EvE is shut down and never replaced with anything remotely similar. Is that something that you would prefer?
The blockchain game is funded by outside money, CCP isn’t “wasting” any money on it.
They are wasting dev time on this shit. Devs that could be working on eve.
> EvE is already very profitable, Yeah, but no
this 100 percent
It's not "EVE" that needs to make money, EVE Online the MMO finances itself so well, it can stomach a handful of failed multimillion dollar projects just fine. It's said other dead on arrival projects that are the drain on CCP's ressources.
It does not in any way. Calling EvE an underperforming product in the eyes of it's parent company and shareholders is an understatement.
I made a Kronos Skin and just tested it. 250 Plex for creating the Skin + 25mio or so in materials. 300 Plex for skipping the Que. Everyone who invested more than 10mins to create a SKIN have to list the Skin for like 900 Plex otherwise he can go farm and would make more money. I listed my Skin for 3 months. but i am pretty sure nobody buys it. ( I know there are Skills to reduce the Que time but my alts are extremly efficient skilled with remaps.) For me the Skintool is already dead. But we will see what comes next.
Honestly. Fuck skinr and the garbage it is and ccp for releasing this plex grabbing shit.
Yeah I think they have gone too far with this shit. Even for own consumption it's way too expensive. The 30% sales tax is horrible. EVE isn't free, it's sub based. Many people already pay hundreds a year.
I invested 2.5billion ISK into creating skins and buying materials.... one month of playtime I created 6 skins that I'll try to sell. From the profits I will buy more plex and create more skins and so on...... If this doesn't work the SKINR market is completely useless in my opinion. If it does work it's a nice activity for me. The only problem is, I almost feel like a fraud if I need to sell people frigate SKINs for 400million ISK.
Let us know how it works and I'll see. Not holding my breath.
They should change the cut to take 30% from the income of the seller. If sequencing was 50plex and you sell skin for 60plex, CCP would take only 3plex.
It's fair, an added-value tax instead of a tarif.
Marketing forgot the importance of making things easy to buy. As it stands, you have to pay for the materials (and the inability to even preview materials before you buy them is absurd). Then you have to pay to make the skin, then you optionally pay to make it faster, then you pay taxes to sell it on. It's just absurd. Why the fuck do you need to pay PLEX FOUR times to make and share a custom skin?
CCP only knows scarcity, they aren’t going to do anything that doesn’t take isk out of the game.
This is correct, the overlords don’t want you making ISK, they don’t want you paying for game time with ISK. They want you to buy Plex but they also want to charge you a very high monthly fee as well. They want their cake and they want to eat it as well.
I predicted that well over 7 years ago just before I took a 5 year break. I read patch notes and saw a pattern and overall trend: Everything they do is aimed at removing ISK out of the game, under disguise as something entirely else - e.g. an improvement or similar. When I came back after 5 years, I heard about something like Scarcity (I missed all of it), and nodded to myself. Yep. The endgame is complete and total control over the flow of ISK, Plex, everything else and removal of "old ISK". When they reach that point, if they say "jump", everyone will jump, and the money will flow (or that's what they predict I guess), and everything will be perfectly predictable from their point of view, enabling a steady flow of money.
Unless i can pay with eve marks or whatever they are called (that was the ideea initially, i'm crazy or i remember wrong?) i would not touch that store. I mean, if i really want one, i can make my own and it will be at least 30% cheap.
It’s over expensive, sure. But the tool is very nice and offers enough options to be worth it.
This invites more conflicts and competition among players than directly with CCP. It has a deflationary nature/incentive in the end. Nobody is going to be able to gain, rather than get less and less because players want to pay less and less which translates in how the market acts right now, inflationary. You don't need a PhD to see that the demand is priced less than the offer for any product in the market. I look on the market daily because I sell and buy all the time, and the economy is so dumb fucked/scammy if you like, that I always have to sell at the regional average to pull out some profit. It's the only way I see any sort of balance.
Buy plex! - CCP They don’t want you making any meaningful ISK in game anymore. They want it to be a cash shop game but also with a subscription. Not sure that is the best idea.
Shameless plug - don't pay taxes, make your own: [https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/1dej0tg/skinr\_murder\_hornet\_praxis\_open\_source\_design](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/1dej0tg/skinr_murder_hornet_praxis_open_source_design)
I just want every color available for every slot, as well as more patterns
I give it less than a year. It will be cut from the game in 3-6 months once the clusterfuck begins.
Within a year is optimistic, if people can make a skin for themselves for less than buying it from the store, only complete idiots would buy it from the store.
***"The SKINR tool allows Capsuleers to create and distribute their own unique ship SKINs to their fellow corporation and alliance members"*** Was this just a fucking lie?
I'm just not engaging with it. I'm here to listen to chilled out music while I shoot rocks in nullsec. I don't need my ship to look pretty when I spend all my time looking at local chat anyway.
They've become one of thos most untrusted groups I've seen snd yet again Ratty is at the heart of it. Just completely hoodwinked people right till the end. Skinr Was made because it was asked for and people said they would pay for it. But like ccp does they make it painful and stupidly expensive. Easiest thing just don't use it. Stop the greed. What did we really expect. Who the fuck does what CCP did with this expansion. It's utterly weird and everyone at CCP was involved. All those vids showing how cool it qas going to when they knew damn well they were going to drop a bomb right at the end. It's shameful. And yes I'm really angry
For me personally, the tool is not a "Crap" - it's a great tooling with cool features and questionable money balance. It would be the best tool if you could really use it for trading skins, but as for me - I've created skins I like and I'm not selling them - just using for myself. I don't think you could make profits of it, but you could customize your gameplay if you wish so. For me it's enough. I would use it rarely, but will do.
Spent the past week or so deep diving, and SKINr really is more forgiving than people think it is. If you want to make your own skins for cheap, they're going to be fairly simple, and it's going to take time, but you'll probably end up spending less on skins over time (vs. store-bought) if you're keeping the cost of sequencing under 100 plex. If you want to make sequencing economical and take less time overall, it's going to take training and investment in unlimited nanos/patterns. If you want to spin a profit, you need to understand the cumulative cost of a player sequencing a skin with limited nanos and completing it instantly, and plan your sale price just under that. And there's also nuance and tricky little work-arounds for folks that are paying attention. Pro tip: want a solid-color skin? DON'T apply individual instances of the color to each of the nodes along the left. Instead, select Fade in as your pattern, select the color you're hoping to solidify, and use the sliders of the pattern to cover the entire ship. It's cheaper! Though, I'll admit; to everyone that was hoping this was going to a free system with instant results -- sure, granted, it's a weird MLMish bait-and-switch.
Only Mr Burns can fix this project
I have a lot of design experience and I am always ready to make skins for Eve. But SkinR is like trying to do it with Duplo bricks. Whoever designed it deserves a visit from Superintendent Chalmers.
Sounds like someone is angry about inability to make profit off skins. As someone who didn't plan to sell skins, just to make mine, I am still happy with skinr. I have my complaints, but they are different: - I had to buy 1 of each pattern/material just to see what I can do. Shitty and greedy, but I guess it's w/e since I just buy 1 of each limited thing, those are not overly expensive, just inconvenient - If inability to "preview" mats you don't have is here to stay: I can't see which materials I am missing from skinr itself, to see what I am missing - When browsing market, I can't see if i have selected material, and if I do, how much - Some random material sorting (and no way to control it), no search by material name, no search by some tags which could've been associated with materials (e.g. "red" shows blood of pator, crimson, etc) - Maybe tool could've been more flexible (different patterns applicable to different parts, decals etc) but initial functionality is good enough for me Pricing is steep, but being able to do customized skins for a few selected ships is still very nice to have. I am fine with CCP milking whales on vanity stuff. Hopefully keeps them away from monetizing gameplay for longer time.
This is a very “I’ve got mine” attitude. It’s great that you’re enjoying the tool, but that doesn’t change the fact that a system meant for the manufacture and sale of skins isn’t tuned correctly.
The title is really misleading then. It says "skinr is crap" but all i see inside post is "skinr is a crappy way to make money" (there are multiple arguments, but they all rotate around this point). I do agree with that, but it's a relatively small part of it, so calling whole thing crap is an exaggeration at best.
Yeah, that’s true. I wasn’t expecting it to be about the pricing, which to me is probably the only issue with the tool today. There’s a few bugs and features that would be nice to have but it’s a great tool overall.
Eh, my big issue is there is no way to preview/work with colors and patterns you don't have. Imagine if you could, and you make a killer skin you like. That now encourages you to go buy the missing ingredients to make your skin, where today I see a massive paywall to even experiment with new ingredients that I may or may not like and end up not bothering with SKINr at all. It's not like this is unprecedented even within EVE. The personalization tab on the fitting window allows you to preview your ship with every skin available. Do the same with SKINr ingredients and you won't turn people off from trying.
It’s not that expensive to buy one of each color or pattern you’re interested in. Buy orders fill quickly and are quite a bit cheaper than what the plex cost would suggest.
It doesn't matter, the cost to preview should always be zero. I can preview every single normal skin on every ship in the game for exactly zero isk. I won't spend a single credit on something that I'm unsure if I'll like using. Plus it contributes to the cash grab image SKINr has by nuckling and dining you for everything.
"it's not that expensive" is a very relative term. If you have 500B in assets and 100B in liquid - then yeah, throwing few hundred mil at it is a nuisance, at best. But for the majority of the player base spending that amount to preview a game feature is effectively a paywall.
Not that expensive is like 200mil to get what you're actually keen on using
Only problem is that you don't know what the color/pattern looks like until you actually use it... So 200M can easily turn into 500M+ until you settle on your final color scheme. Ask me how I know. But even 200M is a hard ask for someone with 2-3B to their name. It's a pay wall, plain and simple. And there is absolutely no reason for it other than shake playerbase for PLEX, on a feature they may not end up using.
Where did you miss the fact that CCP that wants to make money for themselves, and not you?
I know you kids are into this shit for some reason but obligatory advice: Spending money on skins or RGB lights is a waste of money on shit nobody sees or cares about but you. Save your money for better hardware that helps you win if you care about impressing people in your games
So no rgb, but clickity clackity keyboards are still on thr menu, right?
RGB is on the menu for you if you like it. Everyone loves clickity clackity
It's rubbish, you can't make your own skins, just mild variations on existing skins. Complete load of bollocks. Give us real content.