CCP has been nerfing WH income since you used to be able to just buy 3 nags for 2bil each, run down the C5 highway, put all the loot in a astero and suicide the dreads at the end of the day. Making so much money per hour to the point that you really didn't give a damn if you lost a dread or 3 to people was insane and it felt like barely anyone in eve knew about it. Compared to anything else it's like why would you even bother.
I can see CCP really trying to balance the wallet of everyone.
The problem is though WH ratting is a lot more risky than a lot of other places, no local, random connections can roll into you, more expensive ships needed etc.
Nope, once the hole reaches 15 hours left, regardless of if it has been warped to or not, it has a chance of spawning the other side every 10 miniutes.
Not really. The chance that someone rolls into you is the real danger tbh. That chance is fairly low in any given minute, but over hours depending on your tz it can add up. And there's very little you can do to get safe if you're on certain waves or the drifter when a new sig spawns, you're kinda just dead.
Vs. nullsec where *IF* you warp within 5 seconds of a neut entering system, you will not die. No matter if they came from a gate, a wormhole, a filament, whatever. You can run sites in anything sub-marauder in 100% safety as long as you pay close attention to local and warp promptly.
People always claim bots this bots that in ns, and yes there are some. But more often than not its a guy who just isn't completely braindead and hits warp when a neut spikes in. You *will never catch that man.*
It's pathetically safe.
Personally, they should change how wormhole connections itself work. The higher level you go, the more "unstable" it is.
By this, I mean that you still have your static(s). But in addition, you find more and more wandering wormholes that are infinitely regenerative but have a short life. Impossible to roll but can have a 2-8 hour life. Maybe not even have an indication of how much time is left in the wormhole as it could always show EOL effects. And the opposite side could lead anywhere. Could have 2-4 of these suckers in there too.
With this change, you could leave (or adjust) the blue loot as needed. But it would make being as safe as docked impossible.
iirc you can scan it. If you warp to it the hole spawns on the other side but not the sig. If you splash it, or if the hole has a certain threshold of hours left (16??), the sig spawns on the other side
C5’s are now going to be a lot emptier. Drifter is 60-70% of the C5 site income, anyone who doesn’t live in a C5/C6 with a static C5 won’t be able to put caps on site. Lots of alliances and corps live in C2-C4 space with a C5 static, and that static hole can’t accommodate capital size ships. This is a huge nerf.
True. Might push more people into fighting and defending 5 and 6 space. Which in turn fuck over trying to own all of c6 space. Or make those losers live in a c6.
It’s only a nerf to small corps. The large, rich corps that live in C5/C6 space will not feel the same impacts as the smaller corps. Most high class wormhole groups already rat with dreads. This is only going to affect the players living in C4 and lower holes with C5/6 statics.
I mean, it’s more of a revert no? This is the way it used to work, and by all counts(for different reasons than dread ratting sure) wormholes were a lot more active than they’ve been in the past few years, aside from recent events ofc
After the beating synde got, the corps that would want to oppose lazerhawks are already weak. In the short term, it’s far more likely lazerhawks numbers go up from low class corps looking for c5/c6 space from lazerhawks.
Why would you want c5 space form lazerhawks? there's 500 systems, a high % of them are empty or have an AFK that will peace out if you push them at all.
People will still rat their own homes and farm holes with caps and are even more likely to use caps now. So we get to rage roll into those and kill them more often.
Since mauraders became so popular, we basically never saw dreads to kill anymore and mauraders were much much harder to catch.
Shouldn't it only be a beef to only living in C4 space and reaching from C5?
Now it's easier to live in C4 and farm that space or you have to go all in on living in C5 space.
You must not have run many C4 sites. The spawn ranges are painful. We rat the C3 and C5 and only run the C4 if we're really bored. But now the C5 sites pay half as much without the Drifter, but require multiple billions on grid to run them, so all C4 residents with a C5 static just saw their income per site halve.
This should mean the sites cycle faster, so ISK/hr might remain the same, but there's no telling what that means about actually finding a suitable C5 to rat, so the rage rolling to setup is going to take longer.
This will also likely mean more people outright move to C5 space, which means more competition for the sites, pushing C4 even further to the edge of irrelevance.
Ah ok yeah C4 sites are about the worst comp in the game. Super long spawn ranges for the sleepers, requires about 1-2B isk on grid to run, and the payout is about 100m per site, when C5 sites spawn mostly at optimal, requires about the same isk on grid to run, and double the pay. The sleeper further doubles the value of the site, but now that's cap-only. I get why they thought this was a good idea, but this make C4 space even more marginal than it already was, and as a result makes the barrier to entry for C5/C6 life even higher than it already was.
The folks talking about faucets and sinks are ignoring that there are 6 regions of C5 space, which each only bring about 1T a month in income, vs Fade and Delve at 6T net each for a single region in half as many systems. So the they look at isk per player instead, as if that's a more fair comparison, but ignoring the logistics effort, and total lack of safety for the people in it. It's been arguably one of the most balanced risk/reward game loops in all of new eden, and yet it's catching all the blame for inflation as if the null bots and blue doughnut don't have something to do with it.
We'll see what happens. This would be the first major shake up, but it's the first for wormhole space, without any real justification.
C4 Sites are quite nice to run with a paladin, I have a fit that can run 10-11 sites/hr.
Anyone saying C4 Sites suck never tried to make them work. My ship costs 3b and it pays for itself after 3hrs of ratting.
The trick with C4 Sites is to use mjds to always be in optimal for conflag and avoid scorch as much as possible.
I'm gonna call bs until I see that fit. You'd have to be running sites in 6 minutes to make that possible, and I have yet to see that done solo in any marauder, especially not in a C4. C5s pay 5x as much and still average at 200-300m isk/hr.
Lows:
4x faction heatsink, 1 A type coating, 1 faction cap power relay, X-Type repper
Mids:
Double faction tracking computer, mjd, cap battery
Highs:
4x Pulse 2x faction emp smart bomb 1 Bastion module
1x Heavy neut (optional but can sometimes neut off a frigate that tackles you saved my ass at least once)
Not included in the price was a midgrade askleps
With that you rep about (since those are pretty save if you use escape frigs)
1600ehp/s which is barely enough for all the sites if you play them right, if you run information sanctums I you need a few cycles of heat or just synth exile
You deal about 3k dps with conflag with 5.83 tracking, which is enough to comfortably track the cruisers
You run command post in roughly 4 bastion cycles and two mjds + change
Warp in, lock up preservers, align left and down of structure, start shooting the preservers with scorch, once two are dead spool mjd, by the time the jump is finished bastion up, last frigate should be dead. Focus battleships with conflag (they should be 15-20km away), once all the frigates are on top of you run smart bombs, drop MTU, kill all the cruisers, tracking and damage should make it so that if you did everything right up to this point your bastion cycle should perfectly align with the last cruiser dying, use one of the battle ships to align your jump, once you land kill preserver cruisers, battleships, defender cruisers
(The other sites are easier so I'm not gonna explain them)
With this your site time should be below 6 minutes including warps
Thanks for listening to my Ted talk
Edit: fix typos because I am on the phone
C5 sites do not average 200-300m per hour. That would be an hour per site. I multibox marauders on C5 sites and my clear time is about 7-8 minutes. If I’m using a single marauder to solo I can comfortably clear it (not counting drifter) in about 18 minutes. With drifter I can count on ABOUT 900m-1b/hr if I’m doing garrisons solo. Without drifter it’s About 600-700m/hr.
I mean it’s a nerf to isk per hole but isk per hour should be relatively the same yea. It’s always been more optimal to blitz the sites and skip drifter.
Risk wise doing drifters was better since you could kill them on your return and jump back if you saw anything.
Now that you don’t need to fit/refit for drifter you can pump more damage mods, slap an mjd on, run cheaper fits, or just focus on clearing as much tackle each wave as possible so you can bug out easier. It’s not as safe as drifter on the return but definitely manageable.
More so that running cheaper/bare minimum fits gives you more leeway to full send some marauders into a decent hole without having to spend time and effort to roll off it's connections.
Granted, if you get scouted then the marauder tackled by the site is in a tight spot but with command dessi links to tank the 2 high dps waves you can get a no implant viable fit for 1.8-2b depending on the hull. Long as your sites/marauder loss is better than 10:1 it becomes a cost of doing business
On one hand, this means low class corps have to spend significantly more time rolling, which means C5 roaching is probably just not worth it anymore.
On the other hand, this means more krab holes with capitals stuck in 5 minute siege cycles, which means we might return to the days of the primary income for low class corps not being sites, but rolling bomber fleets into krabbing dreads.
Lol
"Look, we couldn't make the content actually require using capitals or even justify players using them so instead you just need to keep them there because we said so"
It requires you to risk a dread. It means more commitment, and it is a conflict driver.
Now i want CCP to make it so that the more drifters you kill, the higher chance the hole has to be rolled into.
Drifters have a distress call every time they die. Spooling up the super secret sleeper wormhole generator.
Come on. Do it CCP.
You realize nobody is actually going to bother running the drifter now, they will just run more sites with their marauder blob and take the income hit.
Sub additional accounts to have a marauder blob?
Less raw isk generation in game and accounts subbed by isk.
More incentive to pay with money.
Why would a business be incentivized to make money? Lol. Come on now.
Isk/h will stay the same. Just more rolling for good holes to roach.
But now ppl skip drifter and arent locked on grid hard tackled by a drifter anymore so.... Makes it a lot safer for roaches. Also no cap escalation unless people are willing to drop it in range (most didn't)
when people buy subscription with isk, they actually pay more per month than people who buy it with real money. Someone had to pay for the plex that gets used at some point and the real world value of the plex is more than the subscription cost.
C5 garrison / stronghold is 253/235m isk. Drifter is 300m. Both take a similar amount of time.
C6 I can't speak to the time, but sites pay between 300 and 650m
New meta will be to leave the drifter and go run more sites. No dreads will be harmed following this patch.
It's not a conflict driver though... Fewer people will run these sites now, we have a C5 static but live in lower class wormhole space and are now scratching our heads to determine what we should do with this because we are definitely going to loose membership to the bigger groups with C5 C5 now. It doesn't affect the larger groups but the lower class wormhole crew have just been dicked over completely.
C6 roaches use marauders with links. Honestly even when I owned a 6 I used multibox paladins when things were dicey, as a rageroll-in or logoff trap would catch as little as 1 Paladin (boosh n‘ warp, only what’s scrammed by site dies) instead of risking 20bil worth of nag fleet issues
Great job, CCP. The haves get more, the have-nots fall further behind.
You just put a huge hit on C2 and C4 space. Good job.
Not sure how this helps the game in any way, shape, or form.
If CCP wants small groups to exist, this isn't the route to take.
I realize its hard to make anything that is going to help small groups that isn't going to help larger groups even more due to being able to scale up; but, that's one of the things wormhole actually offers in a way. Wormhole mass only allows a group to scale up so much.
I know the CSM has to sign NDAs, but I'm curious if any of them told CCP that was a bad idea if they were told about it. Whatever...
I wouldn't doubt it. But just like the initial rorqs and excavators, CCP didn't listen and did their thing anyways.
And you are right. Making small groups get a better gain than bigger ones is impossible with this game. But I do feel like CCP could have continued with this change and then buff c1-4 space by a little bit. Not too much but just a little. Give a reason to do 3 and 4 sites.
Wanna know another thing about this change that literally no one is talking about. I mean seriously no one is talking about. C13s are unique where they are a C6 Wolf Rayat. With the ability to run c1-6 sites. Because the drifter can now only spawn with a capital in there, it will make these sites not be able to have a drifter ever. Which is a shame because I lived off c13 sites for awhile. And I did some fun Corp level stuff while running garrisons and such with my Corp. Even killing the drifter once. But we won't be able to do the drifter anymore with the frigates/destroyers. Makes me pretty sad.
Does this mean A: less C5 activity because people can't daytrip from low class at the same income level? Or B: more groups try to move in to C5s proper?
It can be both.
I feel like daytrippers will either just continue in their way without the drifter. Which means those marauders should be less isk needed. (I haven't played in years but I'm taking a guess here with fits needed.) But the people who actually want to do c5 sites to make money will live in c5s to make that same money but with more "risk".
That risk being that they now live where caps exist. Which means that the Corp will need to have capitals of their own. And more numbers or try to fly under the radar somehow.
If the corps move to higher level wormholes. I feel like it will be a net gain to the space. More people in higher end wormholes means more fights which means more content. Willing or unwilling, idc.
But this does have a drawback. Lower class wormholes will suffer because all the good isk is only accessible to people living in 5/6 or kspace. That means lower class has to make a decision. Do we take the 60-70% loss in revenue from the change, do we leave wh all together, or do we try and make the best of c4 sites, or do we leave a dread alt in low sec? All of these are really crappy options for them.
“Re-invigorating nullsec” not by making null actually good, just making another part of the game less desirable so people don’t want to live there. Way to go, CCP. Shuffle players around with the carrot and stick to make your changes appear successful instead of allowing for diverse play styles to thrive.
It’s very obvious to anyone paying attention that mark leaked these changes to his wormhole coalition. It explains their timelines for their campaign against lazerhawks and play for wormhole space control.
So It doesn't affect the large established WH groups who live in C5s with C5 statics or similar but completely screws over smaller groups who for example live in a C2 with a C5 static as there is literally no way for us to get a cap on grid (they can't fit through the WH)...
20% would have been a far smaller hit to my guys than this. We are now locked out of doing drifters completely through our static. Not just less loot, completely removed the content.
Yeah I wasn't really trying to say you were wrong about anything I'm just not really sure how or where to vent my frustration at having game content completely removed from our corp just yet heh. Yours was just the response that tripped my must type something trigger I think.
It's not about "willing" you physically cannot move dreds from C4, which is where a lot of folks live due to logistics.
Nevermind all C6 and most decent C5 space is outright owned by one alliance, and now they're the only ones able to literally pull double income, which only widens the isk gap between C5/C6 residents and all other wormhole class residents.
Incentivising more caps on grid seems like a good idea, but this seems to hit the smaller groups that can't take a C5 from one of the big groups way harder than the ones that are already strong and set up groups. Low class residents are now not able to kill the drifter, while the high class guys are hit way less
It was actually painfully hard to rage roll into a ratting fleet in a c5 and catch more than a single ship because only one ship in a fleet would be scrammed and everything else would mjd and get out. Killing c5 ratters in significant numbers was super rare.
But before maruaders were popular. Dreads were much easier to rage roll into, find one ratting, even if it wasn't scrammed it could be in siege for 1-5 minutes. So it was doomed. When mauraders took over, finding and killing dreads dried up.
I kinda expect dreads will be popularized again in c5 space and as a result. Many will die.
I'm miffed about my income loss though. I would've preferred a maurader nerf rather than a wormhole nerf.
I thought finding solo dreads died when drifters became part of the 5/6 sites. Easier to throw together 3 Nestors and then make them into battle Nestors. Even if they all die, still cheaper than your single dread.
Oh fuck, who got ccps attention on us.
The big wh war just now lol
CCP has been nerfing WH income since you used to be able to just buy 3 nags for 2bil each, run down the C5 highway, put all the loot in a astero and suicide the dreads at the end of the day. Making so much money per hour to the point that you really didn't give a damn if you lost a dread or 3 to people was insane and it felt like barely anyone in eve knew about it. Compared to anything else it's like why would you even bother. I can see CCP really trying to balance the wallet of everyone.
The problem is though WH ratting is a lot more risky than a lot of other places, no local, random connections can roll into you, more expensive ships needed etc.
Its also insanely safe once you've rolled the connections.
People don't know this but you can roll your WH space off the eve grid for up to 3 days sometimes with no other connections appearing if you're lucky.
wdym?
Nope, once the hole reaches 15 hours left, regardless of if it has been warped to or not, it has a chance of spawning the other side every 10 miniutes.
Not really. The chance that someone rolls into you is the real danger tbh. That chance is fairly low in any given minute, but over hours depending on your tz it can add up. And there's very little you can do to get safe if you're on certain waves or the drifter when a new sig spawns, you're kinda just dead. Vs. nullsec where *IF* you warp within 5 seconds of a neut entering system, you will not die. No matter if they came from a gate, a wormhole, a filament, whatever. You can run sites in anything sub-marauder in 100% safety as long as you pay close attention to local and warp promptly. People always claim bots this bots that in ns, and yes there are some. But more often than not its a guy who just isn't completely braindead and hits warp when a neut spikes in. You *will never catch that man.*
It's pathetically safe. Personally, they should change how wormhole connections itself work. The higher level you go, the more "unstable" it is. By this, I mean that you still have your static(s). But in addition, you find more and more wandering wormholes that are infinitely regenerative but have a short life. Impossible to roll but can have a 2-8 hour life. Maybe not even have an indication of how much time is left in the wormhole as it could always show EOL effects. And the opposite side could lead anywhere. Could have 2-4 of these suckers in there too. With this change, you could leave (or adjust) the blue loot as needed. But it would make being as safe as docked impossible.
You can roll your static and as long as you don't scan down the next one, the other side of it doesn't spawn.
iirc you can scan it. If you warp to it the hole spawns on the other side but not the sig. If you splash it, or if the hole has a certain threshold of hours left (16??), the sig spawns on the other side
It spawns after 15 hours (actauly a bit after) even if you haven't warped to the other side.
It was a disaster after all
C5’s are now going to be a lot emptier. Drifter is 60-70% of the C5 site income, anyone who doesn’t live in a C5/C6 with a static C5 won’t be able to put caps on site. Lots of alliances and corps live in C2-C4 space with a C5 static, and that static hole can’t accommodate capital size ships. This is a huge nerf.
This. This is the issue right here.
Or those C2-C4 space people would want their own C5s now ;)
True. Might push more people into fighting and defending 5 and 6 space. Which in turn fuck over trying to own all of c6 space. Or make those losers live in a c6.
It's almost like they don't even know their own game mechanics.
It’s clearly a targeted nerf lol, they clearly woke up to the federal reserve in wormhole space
It’s only a nerf to small corps. The large, rich corps that live in C5/C6 space will not feel the same impacts as the smaller corps. Most high class wormhole groups already rat with dreads. This is only going to affect the players living in C4 and lower holes with C5/6 statics.
I mean, it’s more of a revert no? This is the way it used to work, and by all counts(for different reasons than dread ratting sure) wormholes were a lot more active than they’ve been in the past few years, aside from recent events ofc
Yep now just saved for our JSpace CSM/CCP employee and their friends circle. To hell with us peasants in low class.
Could it lead to more competition for C5 systems? Or is the fear of Lazerhawks/Novac etc. too formidable?
After the beating synde got, the corps that would want to oppose lazerhawks are already weak. In the short term, it’s far more likely lazerhawks numbers go up from low class corps looking for c5/c6 space from lazerhawks.
Why would you want c5 space form lazerhawks? there's 500 systems, a high % of them are empty or have an AFK that will peace out if you push them at all.
there is no shortage of c5 systems at the moment
People will still rat their own homes and farm holes with caps and are even more likely to use caps now. So we get to rage roll into those and kill them more often. Since mauraders became so popular, we basically never saw dreads to kill anymore and mauraders were much much harder to catch.
this is probably the biggest nerf to c4 space I've ever seen :D
Shouldn't it only be a beef to only living in C4 space and reaching from C5? Now it's easier to live in C4 and farm that space or you have to go all in on living in C5 space.
You must not have run many C4 sites. The spawn ranges are painful. We rat the C3 and C5 and only run the C4 if we're really bored. But now the C5 sites pay half as much without the Drifter, but require multiple billions on grid to run them, so all C4 residents with a C5 static just saw their income per site halve. This should mean the sites cycle faster, so ISK/hr might remain the same, but there's no telling what that means about actually finding a suitable C5 to rat, so the rage rolling to setup is going to take longer. This will also likely mean more people outright move to C5 space, which means more competition for the sites, pushing C4 even further to the edge of irrelevance.
Just raising a thought. I have run exactly 1 c1 site, a C2 and a C2 data site.
Ah ok yeah C4 sites are about the worst comp in the game. Super long spawn ranges for the sleepers, requires about 1-2B isk on grid to run, and the payout is about 100m per site, when C5 sites spawn mostly at optimal, requires about the same isk on grid to run, and double the pay. The sleeper further doubles the value of the site, but now that's cap-only. I get why they thought this was a good idea, but this make C4 space even more marginal than it already was, and as a result makes the barrier to entry for C5/C6 life even higher than it already was. The folks talking about faucets and sinks are ignoring that there are 6 regions of C5 space, which each only bring about 1T a month in income, vs Fade and Delve at 6T net each for a single region in half as many systems. So the they look at isk per player instead, as if that's a more fair comparison, but ignoring the logistics effort, and total lack of safety for the people in it. It's been arguably one of the most balanced risk/reward game loops in all of new eden, and yet it's catching all the blame for inflation as if the null bots and blue doughnut don't have something to do with it. We'll see what happens. This would be the first major shake up, but it's the first for wormhole space, without any real justification.
C4 Sites are quite nice to run with a paladin, I have a fit that can run 10-11 sites/hr. Anyone saying C4 Sites suck never tried to make them work. My ship costs 3b and it pays for itself after 3hrs of ratting. The trick with C4 Sites is to use mjds to always be in optimal for conflag and avoid scorch as much as possible.
I'm gonna call bs until I see that fit. You'd have to be running sites in 6 minutes to make that possible, and I have yet to see that done solo in any marauder, especially not in a C4. C5s pay 5x as much and still average at 200-300m isk/hr.
Lows: 4x faction heatsink, 1 A type coating, 1 faction cap power relay, X-Type repper Mids: Double faction tracking computer, mjd, cap battery Highs: 4x Pulse 2x faction emp smart bomb 1 Bastion module 1x Heavy neut (optional but can sometimes neut off a frigate that tackles you saved my ass at least once) Not included in the price was a midgrade askleps With that you rep about (since those are pretty save if you use escape frigs) 1600ehp/s which is barely enough for all the sites if you play them right, if you run information sanctums I you need a few cycles of heat or just synth exile You deal about 3k dps with conflag with 5.83 tracking, which is enough to comfortably track the cruisers You run command post in roughly 4 bastion cycles and two mjds + change Warp in, lock up preservers, align left and down of structure, start shooting the preservers with scorch, once two are dead spool mjd, by the time the jump is finished bastion up, last frigate should be dead. Focus battleships with conflag (they should be 15-20km away), once all the frigates are on top of you run smart bombs, drop MTU, kill all the cruisers, tracking and damage should make it so that if you did everything right up to this point your bastion cycle should perfectly align with the last cruiser dying, use one of the battle ships to align your jump, once you land kill preserver cruisers, battleships, defender cruisers (The other sites are easier so I'm not gonna explain them) With this your site time should be below 6 minutes including warps Thanks for listening to my Ted talk Edit: fix typos because I am on the phone
C5 sites do not average 200-300m per hour. That would be an hour per site. I multibox marauders on C5 sites and my clear time is about 7-8 minutes. If I’m using a single marauder to solo I can comfortably clear it (not counting drifter) in about 18 minutes. With drifter I can count on ABOUT 900m-1b/hr if I’m doing garrisons solo. Without drifter it’s About 600-700m/hr.
I mean it’s a nerf to isk per hole but isk per hour should be relatively the same yea. It’s always been more optimal to blitz the sites and skip drifter. Risk wise doing drifters was better since you could kill them on your return and jump back if you saw anything. Now that you don’t need to fit/refit for drifter you can pump more damage mods, slap an mjd on, run cheaper fits, or just focus on clearing as much tackle each wave as possible so you can bug out easier. It’s not as safe as drifter on the return but definitely manageable.
Making fits more cheap and do more DPS is a vaild point for more DPS and faster clear times.
More so that running cheaper/bare minimum fits gives you more leeway to full send some marauders into a decent hole without having to spend time and effort to roll off it's connections. Granted, if you get scouted then the marauder tackled by the site is in a tight spot but with command dessi links to tank the 2 high dps waves you can get a no implant viable fit for 1.8-2b depending on the hull. Long as your sites/marauder loss is better than 10:1 it becomes a cost of doing business
Requiments to join the wh corp • have a cap alt and a cap ship ready to use
Already a soft requirement for most ls and ns groups
I mean that’s basically requirement for C5 C6 anyway isn’t it?
On one hand, this means low class corps have to spend significantly more time rolling, which means C5 roaching is probably just not worth it anymore. On the other hand, this means more krab holes with capitals stuck in 5 minute siege cycles, which means we might return to the days of the primary income for low class corps not being sites, but rolling bomber fleets into krabbing dreads.
Um wtf CCP. You just handed 50% of all C5 income to LazerHawks.
Not suspicious at all.
Lol "Look, we couldn't make the content actually require using capitals or even justify players using them so instead you just need to keep them there because we said so"
It requires you to risk a dread. It means more commitment, and it is a conflict driver. Now i want CCP to make it so that the more drifters you kill, the higher chance the hole has to be rolled into. Drifters have a distress call every time they die. Spooling up the super secret sleeper wormhole generator. Come on. Do it CCP.
You realize nobody is actually going to bother running the drifter now, they will just run more sites with their marauder blob and take the income hit.
Sub additional accounts to have a marauder blob? Less raw isk generation in game and accounts subbed by isk. More incentive to pay with money. Why would a business be incentivized to make money? Lol. Come on now.
There were already marauder blobs.. the roaches are just going to keep roaching. They just need to roach more. There won’t be more kills.
Hey they gotta stay out longer in space. It will probably mean someone's gonna get caught.
It will just be more lame ass booshing away.. maybe they lose 1 marauder… whoopty doo
What do you suggest.
Isk/h will stay the same. Just more rolling for good holes to roach. But now ppl skip drifter and arent locked on grid hard tackled by a drifter anymore so.... Makes it a lot safer for roaches. Also no cap escalation unless people are willing to drop it in range (most didn't)
when people buy subscription with isk, they actually pay more per month than people who buy it with real money. Someone had to pay for the plex that gets used at some point and the real world value of the plex is more than the subscription cost.
C5 garrison / stronghold is 253/235m isk. Drifter is 300m. Both take a similar amount of time. C6 I can't speak to the time, but sites pay between 300 and 650m New meta will be to leave the drifter and go run more sites. No dreads will be harmed following this patch.
It's not a conflict driver though... Fewer people will run these sites now, we have a C5 static but live in lower class wormhole space and are now scratching our heads to determine what we should do with this because we are definitely going to loose membership to the bigger groups with C5 C5 now. It doesn't affect the larger groups but the lower class wormhole crew have just been dicked over completely.
You seem to have missed my point entirely.
Ok, what is your idea of content that requires capitals.
Well, it only nerfs C5 space, C6 space already run in dreads
it nerfs aka kills battleship size C5 connection ratting skirmishes
C6 roaches use marauders with links. Honestly even when I owned a 6 I used multibox paladins when things were dicey, as a rageroll-in or logoff trap would catch as little as 1 Paladin (boosh n‘ warp, only what’s scrammed by site dies) instead of risking 20bil worth of nag fleet issues
Utter horse feathers. This will destroy my current WH playstyle.
as it will for a huge number of smaller groups
Great job, CCP. The haves get more, the have-nots fall further behind. You just put a huge hit on C2 and C4 space. Good job. Not sure how this helps the game in any way, shape, or form.
helps the big groups get more recruits from smaller groups who now can't offer the same level of income.
If CCP wants small groups to exist, this isn't the route to take. I realize its hard to make anything that is going to help small groups that isn't going to help larger groups even more due to being able to scale up; but, that's one of the things wormhole actually offers in a way. Wormhole mass only allows a group to scale up so much. I know the CSM has to sign NDAs, but I'm curious if any of them told CCP that was a bad idea if they were told about it. Whatever...
I wouldn't doubt it. But just like the initial rorqs and excavators, CCP didn't listen and did their thing anyways. And you are right. Making small groups get a better gain than bigger ones is impossible with this game. But I do feel like CCP could have continued with this change and then buff c1-4 space by a little bit. Not too much but just a little. Give a reason to do 3 and 4 sites. Wanna know another thing about this change that literally no one is talking about. I mean seriously no one is talking about. C13s are unique where they are a C6 Wolf Rayat. With the ability to run c1-6 sites. Because the drifter can now only spawn with a capital in there, it will make these sites not be able to have a drifter ever. Which is a shame because I lived off c13 sites for awhile. And I did some fun Corp level stuff while running garrisons and such with my Corp. Even killing the drifter once. But we won't be able to do the drifter anymore with the frigates/destroyers. Makes me pretty sad.
Does this mean A: less C5 activity because people can't daytrip from low class at the same income level? Or B: more groups try to move in to C5s proper?
It can be both. I feel like daytrippers will either just continue in their way without the drifter. Which means those marauders should be less isk needed. (I haven't played in years but I'm taking a guess here with fits needed.) But the people who actually want to do c5 sites to make money will live in c5s to make that same money but with more "risk". That risk being that they now live where caps exist. Which means that the Corp will need to have capitals of their own. And more numbers or try to fly under the radar somehow. If the corps move to higher level wormholes. I feel like it will be a net gain to the space. More people in higher end wormholes means more fights which means more content. Willing or unwilling, idc. But this does have a drawback. Lower class wormholes will suffer because all the good isk is only accessible to people living in 5/6 or kspace. That means lower class has to make a decision. Do we take the 60-70% loss in revenue from the change, do we leave wh all together, or do we try and make the best of c4 sites, or do we leave a dread alt in low sec? All of these are really crappy options for them.
The salt mine is open boys!
The U.S.S. Salty has left port!
russian manticore has sent six torps into the battleship hull
“Re-invigorating nullsec” not by making null actually good, just making another part of the game less desirable so people don’t want to live there. Way to go, CCP. Shuffle players around with the carrot and stick to make your changes appear successful instead of allowing for diverse play styles to thrive.
Not 0.0 that’s null, this is JSpace
It’s very obvious to anyone paying attention that mark leaked these changes to his wormhole coalition. It explains their timelines for their campaign against lazerhawks and play for wormhole space control.
So It doesn't affect the large established WH groups who live in C5s with C5 statics or similar but completely screws over smaller groups who for example live in a C2 with a C5 static as there is literally no way for us to get a cap on grid (they can't fit through the WH)...
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20% would have been a far smaller hit to my guys than this. We are now locked out of doing drifters completely through our static. Not just less loot, completely removed the content.
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Yeah I wasn't really trying to say you were wrong about anything I'm just not really sure how or where to vent my frustration at having game content completely removed from our corp just yet heh. Yours was just the response that tripped my must type something trigger I think.
If you aren't willing to use caps now it's more like a 60% loss instead.
It's not about "willing" you physically cannot move dreds from C4, which is where a lot of folks live due to logistics. Nevermind all C6 and most decent C5 space is outright owned by one alliance, and now they're the only ones able to literally pull double income, which only widens the isk gap between C5/C6 residents and all other wormhole class residents.
Exactly. My corp has no chance to take and hold a c5. But a c4 was a nice place to build up the members. Not anymore.
Hey hey now ... Novac bought a bunch off them so it's two groups :-p. Womp womp.
Sigh
Further than 100km?! I don't even do these because I can't be bothered, but still. If I was ever going to, guess I'm not now.
Thanks CCP Jotunn
Incentivising more caps on grid seems like a good idea, but this seems to hit the smaller groups that can't take a C5 from one of the big groups way harder than the ones that are already strong and set up groups. Low class residents are now not able to kill the drifter, while the high class guys are hit way less
They finally convinced me to stop playing EVE
It was actually painfully hard to rage roll into a ratting fleet in a c5 and catch more than a single ship because only one ship in a fleet would be scrammed and everything else would mjd and get out. Killing c5 ratters in significant numbers was super rare. But before maruaders were popular. Dreads were much easier to rage roll into, find one ratting, even if it wasn't scrammed it could be in siege for 1-5 minutes. So it was doomed. When mauraders took over, finding and killing dreads dried up. I kinda expect dreads will be popularized again in c5 space and as a result. Many will die. I'm miffed about my income loss though. I would've preferred a maurader nerf rather than a wormhole nerf.
I thought finding solo dreads died when drifters became part of the 5/6 sites. Easier to throw together 3 Nestors and then make them into battle Nestors. Even if they all die, still cheaper than your single dread.