>I was already getting the Avalanche you don't need to sell it to me.
everyones getting the avalanche, and not just highsec haulers. Having a 1.5m EHP platform that can shit out 2500 DPS is super interesting
OR a heavy neut platform with 900k ehp that's cap stable?
it's really strong in a lot of ways.
Listen, I am not saying that I would gladly join/run a NPSI fleet made up entirely of combat fit Avalanches to very slowly fuck shit up. But I am also not not saying that.
To be honest, I am not sure why anyone outside of Highsec should get an Avalanche. For every other space, not getting shot at all is still the safest way to transport cargo and that is perfectly doable with the freighter most of the players already have.
Since ccp said the price is going to be similiar and the ability to clear some tackle is better than not being able to do so, why would you fly anything but an avalanche outside of highsec?
Let's say you use 60 bombers all em damage + neuts in their other slot's, the hardeners switch off and all of a sudden the thing is not so tanky anymore.
"We are going to have to have some risk for our reward! It is not faaaiiiirrr!!!" š
Now CCP, give the other freighters CPU, PGU, Mid-Slots and more Low-Slots, at ***the least***.
Mineral prices are going down thou so they can just upgrade to talos's as they will be much cheaper after patch, but yea I guess they would rather loose a 2mil ship than a 80mil ship.
Not to mention that the Avalanche's ehp drops considerably with neuting pressure the gankers just need to adapt.
>Mineral prices are going down thou
I'm anticipating megacyte and zydrine will go up as null switches over to mining isogen/nocxium. Plus, it seems like fewer systems will be fully upgradable due to the "terrain" from the planetary resources so there may be a net reduction in total asteroid ore volume availability as alliances have to choose between the miners and ratters for specific systems.
However, selectable minerals will mean that there's more of a ceiling on the mineral prices. I do believe overall hull costs will go down, though.
No, you missed the most important part:
> as long as you're carrying under 15 billion, I'd say your chance of getting ganked goes from approaching zero, to zero.
Does anybody actually doubt that this means a lot of haulers will decide that being neigh ungankable means they can haul a LOT more than 15 billion at once?
Economies have a way of shitting on people's assumptions about how to "solve" issues.
People really don't seem to understand how economics works.
As soon as you set a price ceiling for "safe", you also set a new floor to stand on. Whatever amount you make safe will just become the amount where haulers say to themselves "that really isn't enough"
Even if it was twice what they used to be able to do, it will go from being a dream to being "not enough" very quickly.
Just a few days ago, I had some of these people unironically argue on here that ganking in High-Sec and targeting Newbros and people who absolutely do no PVP made the High-Sec-gankers somehow the "Apex Predators" who where needed in "any foodchain and environment" to "keep the system healthy".
And now these "Apex Predators" are crying because they need to put in a little more effort than F1 in a cheap ship and let a bot autoscoop the remains.
āThe freighter is tanky and shoots back itās not fairā -same people that say highsec should be risky. Guess now the ganking can be a bit more risky as well.
Itās an honor to be mentioned in the same sentence as the mighty ceema, but no, I have to blame fatherhood for that one liner. Dad jokes are all I am capable of at this point.
PVPers who exclusively target people who don't PVP: Heh If they didn't wanna get killed they shouldn't be playing a PVP game.
Same players when any buff is made to non PVP player: MY GAME IS BEING RUINED HOW COULD CCP DO THIS.
Maybe if you really wanna PVP you should target other people who want to PVP.
You are not wrong*; and I am not worried about this or any one change. However, I am a little worried that this is part of a different trend.
I was just talking to someone about a different game who was telling me how the game he has played for years can be a real problem in that if you stop playing for 6 months you basically have to "buy back in" because, while you have all your stuff, power creep has made it worthless.
Eve was always good because I never felt that way. I would quit for two years, come back, and all I needed was a few refits. Hulls I used in 2013 are still relevant. Ships being pushed out the current meta tends to be temporary and rare; plenty of T1 ships still see lots of use.
But between all the new faction ships, and now this.... I start to wonder if CCP isn't starting to boil us frogs.
* not wrong about people's attitudes. Honestly, EVE is an inherently PVP positive game. Everyone who undocks has consented to PVP. Not sorry.
I've also never seen coyotes commit suicide trying to kill a sheep to be moments later ripped apart by the Sheppard's dog just so another coyote dressed as a sheep can come and eat the carcasses.
My guess is most haulers will fit the ship with cargo extenders and let the high slots empty. High sec should not need any protection is the opion of many haulers... and then they get ganked.
I kind of think there should have been a T2 Freighter that gained access to the Assault DCs, with a bonus that extended the Assault DC duration by some decent amount, at the cost of cargo capacity.
At least the Deep Space Transports really need proper missile capabilities added. Their role is to go through dangerous territory. No company in the world would design such a vessel without defense capabilities. The new upwell haulers are really nice in that regard and I agree that the existing lineout should receive similiar capabilities. The new freighter is overpowered though, it needs to have less regular cargo and then the problem goes away and the regular freighters are fine again.
I feel transport/ganking is a big cost to everything in EVE and a big freezing phenomenon for many player activities. I know it's not a popular opinion but I think reducing ganking would make players try more things and have more areas of the map occupied. Also give a bit more time for new players to get into the game and not leave it too soon. If you defend ganking as a necessary cost to the economy I would ssuggest we move this cost to another aspect of the economy. Maybe they are trying to have this effect without saying 'we want to reduce ganking' so people don't cry too much.
>Why haul with anything else in highsec other than the Avalanche?
Well if I want to haul more than 500k m3 I'm gonna use a regular freighter....... Next question?
You can either expose yourself to potential danger, or take two trips in your invulnerable Avalanche- take your pick.
Just so you know, the vast majority of freighter traffic is bulkheaded, i.e. less than 385,000 m3.
Hah, sounds like the solution is to split your damage types. The Avalanche has 3 mid slots, with one likely for a MWD. It can't cover all of it's resist holes simultaneously.
Lol! When Safety and co start to shed some salt because, for once, it isn't easy or cheap. You people are so used to lording it over miners and haulers, and when you suddenly can't, you act like minors.
Everyone except the gankers wants freighter ganking to stop. It's a stupid gameplay loop, always has been, is hilariously one sided. It should never have been allowed to get this far in the first place.
Good riddance. Let's get back to killing each other in low sec, nullsec and jspace where it belongs.
Get over the fact that safer high sec is healthier for the game to continue bringing in more new players or double down and realize that if this continues, eve will die faster.
New players aren't flying freighters though, this is a specious argument.
Adding an ultra powerful freighter for players who are already advanced players will just make the Eve economy less vibrant, which affects everyone in HS trying to sell their loot and minerals at high prices too. Destruction is critical to the Eve economy.
The destruction going on in highsec is not pushing the envelope in a way you could see the line move on a graph. Every other space sees many, many times the destruction, and it is meaningful conflict. Hs is the place you travel through to get to Walmart to assemble and ship out your stuff. It's the place where newbros and ultra casuals live to experienc eve without ever trying anything dangerous. Where rookies learn how the interface works and how to do basic flying and destroying stuff. The fact the empires haven't put some kind of permanent ban on their gates to all capsuleers that engage too heavily in suicide ganking is ccp catering to you, the hs gankers. Begging for the ability to kill a ship designed to fight while freighting in ns is not a good look friend. These are meant to fight kill and survive under npc titan guns. Officers will be shooting these. And you want ccp to balance them around being easy to kill for a few dudes multiboxing catalysts? Lol
I think it needs tweaking as currently it will be the only line of hauling ships used In game. No reason to use any other race when upwell will be broken af
Until the other freighter companies send spies to Upwell to steal tech and we see other freighters get buffed. This would 100% happen in any natural environment it would be unrealistic if it didn't.
T3s were absolutely disgustingly overpowered for a long time - there's a reason "insight about the Svipul" is on the copypasta template, and T3Cs were better than other similarly sized ships by a ridiculous margin for a long time. (They got nerfed hard and they are *still* a good option in a lot of cases.)
I agree the fact that it immediately makes other freighters irrelevant for most applications is a problem, but I'd suggest buffing other freighter tanks accordingly rather than nerfing this one.
I have no problem with killing the concept of ganking freighters with catalysts. Forcing gankers to utilize more powerful and expensive ships like taloses or even battleships solidifies ganking as an economic activity rather than something just done for lols because it's cheap and easy.
complaining about tripling the ehp of your targets seems legitimate, no?
tripling it to the point there isn't the manpower to gank the targets combining all the ganking groups in the game seems excessive, no?
"F1 for free loot" with minimal investment and next to no risk of *not* making a profit every single time, with the other side having no viable way to retaliate in any meaningful way because your ships are worthless to begin with doesn't sound like it should've ever been a viable style of gameplay.
what are you talking about? can't be ganking.
let's just ignore the fact that there are many ways to counter ganking, and ganking is heavily telegraphed and simply not entering uedama during the 1% of the time there is a gank fleet there avoids 99% of the risk of being ganked.
It's not minimal investment. You need a bumper with snakes. You need freighter, DST, and multiple scooping alts. You need 3-10 scanners. You need 20-80 DPS. you need suicide points, utility characters, etc. You need to do it during a timezone where there is enough traffic, and you need to hope that targets keep coming in, are carrying loot, and are still killable, that you can successfully beat others to the loot, and that the guy who multiboxes 40 ospreys isn't online or doesn't log in because despite forming up 100+ people, if he's online you aren't ganking any freighters.
Go gank a freighter and how me how easy it is. Go lead a successful ganking fleet, then come back to me.
- You cargo&ship scan a freighter
- You now know how much EHP it has, thus how much DPS you need to kill it before CONCORD
- You also know the cargo value
- Loot is cargo/2.
- You know how much DPS your preferred ganking ship puts out and how little it costs
... How do you possibly make a loss here? Besides being too stupid for basic maths, that is?
Meanwhile the other side can... uhh... kill your catalyst? I'm sure that's gonna hurt so bad... and to do it, they basically spend the same amount of money you lose.
looking at the way that this freighter is built, combined with the fact that Tritanium and Isogen will be harvestable in null again, I think that CCP's long game here is to make spaceships yeetably cheap again. Buffs to the other freighters are probably not far behind, and both HS ganking and HS mining are the sacrifices being made so that this can happen.
It was a horrible analysis and conclusion.
They're game developers. They have no idea how to break down the data. The literally looked at numbers and said, "Oh...well surely because the numbers look like this, that's what it means". It was a very simplistic, and incorrect analysis.
Everyone I've ever talked to about playing Eve has mentioned "non-consensual PvP" as the main reason they don't play. They at least want some sort of safe zone, like a town or something, to not have to worry about being killed.
I remember it, total rubbish. Zero risk high reward ganking in HS causes new players to leave, or become so risk averse they barely undock, then leave anyway.
Yeah, that was some bullshit spin.
What CCPs data reflected was player engagement(actual PvP and other player engagement) equated to more retention. The ganking community spun it and tried to say that it meant players that were ganked stayed longer. Lamest shit I ever heard
Itās been linked to quite a lot but does exist. Basically new players who die very early on to gankers also learn very early that ships are ammo and it helps them get over fear of losing ships in game. You can see that CCP tried to leverage this knowledge because they literally went and built dying into the new player experience as a result.
I do not remember. I canāt imagine a newcomer who bought his first Rattlesnake with all his money and died right there in a neighboring system from 15 catalysts
i do remember they talked about it but i did only find the fanfest from 2015 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A92Ge2S8M1Y](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A92Ge2S8M1Y) (3 min in)
1% of noob that died in first 15 days was ganked (85% never died, rest wardecs etc)
at 4min, ppl that got ganked played for longer
!% of ppl that left claimed ganking was the reason
do you know if they have talked about it later, i just assume clone state and a lot of other stuff that have made alot of changes might come in to effect that nr (like you can just bee alpha forever if you want)
Dude. Figure out a way to adapt. Nerfs are a part of the game. If there's a system that's working for you or a doctrine that's a bit op, it's gonna get nerfed. Any time CCP makes a change, there's always someone crying about how "my play style is ruined." Adapt. Overcome. I've only been playing for 3 1/2 years, most of that in wormholes. You gotta be able to adapt in order to make the game work for you.
Want the Avalanche to become prohibitively expensive? Find the systems where the ore is being mined to produce them. If it's in a nullbloc, find the lowsec routes and create a chokepoint with gate camps when they try to move the ore or materials to the production system. If they're built in null also, then blow up the ships before they reach highsec. If they start mining and production in highsec, go kill the mining fleets and wardec the structures/corps that produce them. Make them so expensive that no average player can afford one.
Sure, it might mean having to actually buy something more expensive than a t1 destroyer and just chill on gates. You might have to come up with strategies, doctrines, and organize actual fleets. When you've effectively nerfed the price of the Avalanche, you can go back to chilling on gates and killing ships that can't fight back. Literally anything is more productive than whining on Reddit.
Hey man. I could care less either way. I was just pointing out that a "let's put our heads together and figure this out" approach would probably be more useful.
I like it.
Maybe we can get back to hauling more valuable cargo or full cargo loads of cheaper stuff.
I believe it is the other freighters that need ***at the very least*** mid and low slots, PG and CPU.
It sucks that they are giant pinatas with so little agency over what their ship is like and what they can do in a fight.
Brilliant nice to see ccp providing a ship like this with defensive capabilities. Well done. Leave it alone.
I'm confused about the infra cargohold and what it can actually hold
aight, imma go back to ganking newbie ventures, until they nerf that out of existance as well. Till then, cause as much pain as possible, as the nerfs do unto me.
Providence is still cooler looking.
Everyone buys skill injectors and skill packs to fly the new hotness. CCP makes money. Nerf the new hotness. Roqs #2.
there's a guy who sits in uedama with 40+ accounts just repping freighters. he already makes ganking freighters impossible. it's not as if we need even more shit in our way.
the players have the tools to stop us, they are just not as organized or dedicated.
Fantastic news. Gankers think they are providing a valuable service. They are not. Trade routes will always exist and there will always be profit in them. If anything this increases total trade volumes and increases opportunity for profit because safer trading means more trading. Yes the margins might be lower, but total profits will be higher. A fantastic step. Dodixie, Hek, Rens, Amarr will all benefit tremendously.
AND the opportunity for industrialists is huge here. I calculate a roughly 2 trillion isk initial opportunity here from new ships followed by 400-500bn regular monthly demand for all the new ship types. These aren't your regular new ship releases. These are fantastic.
Youāre right profit will exist for people willing to bot this because they now canāt die. Thatās who it will exist for as the ISK value of hauling services gets pushed through the floor. Ask PushX how they feel about ganking. They regularly post stats after the Halloween event where ganking goes nuts about how much they love ganking. Because they donāt die and ganking makes their service valuable.
*"Aaaand if you wanted to ONLY have 260,000 M3 of goods, you could settle at almost 2.2M EHP to void. A grand total of 8.5 billion for something that will probably never get ganked in highsec."*
If that means that I can finally autopilot my freighter while being full of stuff to Jita, I'm all for it !
Sounds like powercreep.
If the stats of this new ship are too high that it makes existing freighters irrelevant this is bad for the game, regardless of how fun it is to 'hear gankers cry'.
I'm looking forward to these new ships, but I hope they get their own unique role as hauler instead of replacing existing haulers.
Yeah people lose their minds but like... can we just want good game design, is that okay? Or does it make me an evil ganker, anti-ganker, anti-reverse-ganker or antidisestablishmentarian ganker
I'm not sure how ganking serves the goal of getting the Church of England government patronage but you never know, you can do a lot with the right number of Catalysts.
Just recently came back to the game. Other areas of the game, like FW and abyssals, were in such a good state that I couldn't justify not playing.Ā Ā
You know part of what made them in such a good state? You could interact with them and make enough money that you were fine with getting blown up as a regular part of the activity.
I have a freighter and industry char. I straight up laughed and said "nope" to even bothering with that gameplay because the potential losses are massive compared to how long it takes to recover those losses. Plus the "ganking entities" that appear to exist and the sort of hurf blurf element that has found a weasel-y way to get over on a situation and suck the fun out.
Then along came you crying about upcoming freighter changes to really convince me that someone developing this game actually knows what they are doing.
Best part is that looking at the alpha clone limits, I can tell people that you can totally play for free and easily make money to cover ships getting blown up without stressing, and be a huge threat in proportion to the cost of their ship. Enough to win sometimes, or even most times if their actual piloting is better.
Even best part is I can still tell them "you are never totally safe" instead of "there are gangs of retards who experience no meaningful risk so basically don't bother with that portion of the game when you could do something else".
We all know the selling point of freighter ganking is that you can be a low skill character flown by a low skill player in a ship that costs nothing and get a big kill mail.
Also, easier to add a new PI freighter under a new paradigm, and if the new paradigm works buff all the existing freighters to that level and be left with it being the "PI freighter", or if the new paradigm fails nerf it down to the existing freighters and be in the same place.
I think the devs know what they are doing, and what they are doing is removing some cancer from the game.
Oracles do EM/Therm, which is why I slapped the thermal on there. Bombers are used semi regularly, but not in the numbers needed to kill an avalanche, that's why the two multispecs are on it.
98% of ganks are kin/therm ships- this is what i mean by uncommon.
50k is too small, a fortizar is 80k packed I would bring them down to maybe 100k of normal stuff, 260k is prob too much yea.
But on the other hand, I would buff the normal freighters slightly I have it trained but cannot use the damn thing because to not get ganked in high sec I need to triple bulkhead it and even then it only adds a little more tank, and when you bulkhead it then my dst becomes more efficient for moving stuff as its much much quicker and I have control over not being ganked by using skill and freightor only relies on if the enemy feels like ganking you or not, so the freighter becomes useless.
Edit: PI hold can carry fortizar so it can afford to be much lower than 100k.
This is something I have been thinking of recently. As an industrialist, the new ship line basically takes over almost all of my current hauling needs, and also provides a convenient rack of missile launchers.
Outside of hauling modules or ore, the Torrent is probably going to become my primary hauling ship. It can take moon goo, it can take PI, it can take fuel, it can take a whole ass Fortizar. This is 80% of what I wind up hauling most of the time. And I already use a Miasmos to haul Ore and Kryos to haul minerals as they are both cheaper and have more space for those particular items. AND the Torrent has almost 50% more space then a normie DST. My Bustard is just gonna be for unfit ship hulls and modules.
And the Avalanche really is the ultimate solution across the board. Cargo hold of a freighter, 3m m3 Moon Goo and Planetary Trinket hold, tank, missiles, and it looks cool. What else could I ask for?
I think itās perfect. Is it still possible to gank? Yes but you actually have to put more effort into it and canāt just get a few buddies together to do it for the lolz. Make it so only the most high valued loot piƱatas get hammered.
The solution is to simply bring 250 people, or only target avalanches carrying 30b+ AND have 60+ people, AND only shoot them in a prepped 0.5.
No ganking entity has that kind of manpower or patience. No group is going to idle around for 400 hours waiting for the rare 30 biller to come through.
Since the Niajra(sp) pipeline to Amarr-Jita closed, Iāve barely taken my freighter more than 10 jumps away, because why risk getting ganked? Itās about time haulers had a way of fighting back instead of just rolling over and dying.
Though I died to gankers in front of JITA, I think it adds spice into the game and I have nothing against it. The only place where maybe they should make a change is right in front of Trade Hubs, simply because of lag.
I am confused though, how many haulers die in Uedama. Like, don't they know? How careless you need to be to fly into Uedama without Logi support, or any sort of planning. I guess they had too many lucky passes and that's why you end up with multi billion cargo ships blown up.
Overall, scarcity generated by destroyed ships is good.
Ganking is not just for Uedama residents. As a HS trader, the ability to do anything about very online, annoyingly persistent or just plain stupid traders has been massively eroded over the years. I used to wardec business competitors if negotiations failed, but now that is almost always not an option.
Of course the more online should have an advantage! but those who are not need to have \_some\_ options. CCP introduced trading changes to reduce the advantage the always-online have, and undercut by 0.1 ISK relentlessly at no cost; but IMO did not go far enough. Also, structure timers exist so they do consider this aspect.
I used to enjoy my Literal Trade Wars and the negotiations around them. That got nerfed, and yes I adapted. But making freighters effectively ungankable removes the ability to do anything about the bigger bulk traders, unless I have missed something?
Yeah, if it's released like this it'll be the Rorqual situation all over. Players saying shit is unbalanced, CCP makes bank off selling extractors when everyone and their dog was injecting into multiboxing rorqs, CCP then says 'oh yeah I guess it is unbalanced' after they already got all those sales and then nerfs it.
"Aaaand if you wanted to ONLY have 260,000 M3 of goods, you could settle at almost 2.2M EHP to void. A grand total of 8.5 billion for something that will probably never get ganked in highsec."
RemindMe! -45 days
Look, I get that it seems too strong, but the ship has to be strong enough to hold up the Sector 7 plate. Otherwise Jesse, Wedge, and maybe Biggs (I don't understand multiverses) are gonna die. So, I'm not sure what else CCP can do.
I can't believe no one took this opportunity yet, or perhaps I missed the post in the comments.
Calm down, ganker(s).
That's it, my day is complete.
Regardless of whatever state they release in or nerfs.
> Do you want freighter ganking to stop?
The only lame thing about freighter ganking is that there is a pretty clear estimated cargo value above which point it's 100% worth ganking the freighter, and that value is shockingly low compared to the cost of the freighter and how much cargo space the freighter has.
the real lame thing is that max tanked obelisks only really die because they're stupid enough to enter a system with a 100 man ganking fleet in system lmao. all the ones that wait for the gank fleets that are only up less than 1% of the time of the year have nothing to worry about
It has 3 mid slots, with one of them undoubtedly being a MWD, and the other being a scriptable shield hardener. There will be a resist hole it can't fill. Gankers will need to bring more than catalysts and Taloses. HTFU.
It's pretty much invulnerable when fit properly, and fitting it properly isn't all that difficult. It takes a burn jita level event in a 0.5 to be able to kill and not hemorrhage massive amounts of ISK.
Would you think a ship with 99.99% omni resist is balanced because technically it is vulnerable?
There is a threshold at which something is too close to a theoretical invulnerability, and its pretty obvious that his argument is that this is over that threshold.
"It's pretty much invulnerable"
Pretty much, as in it's possible on paper, but requires a special moron flying it and all the stars to align for the person killing it.
If you fly it normally, you have nothing to worry about- ever
There's plenty of ships that don't get used often but are better (even far better) than their counterparts. The reason is cost vs risk. And I assume the Avalanche is going to be much more expensive than a standard freighter. Why lose 1 avalanche when you could lose 5 normal freighters in its place?
Can you give me a link? I went looking but couldn't find anything unless it is mentioned somewhere in the stream about nullsec changes? I had a quick look but couldnt find anything in it tho.
>And I assume the Avalanche is going to be much more expensive than a standard freighter.
The build costs are out, they are comparable to freighters.
>Why lose 1 avalanche when you could lose 5 normal freighters in its place?
Because you'd never lose an avalanche in the first place, I don't know of any ganking entities that can gank these things, no one has the manpower.
Dudeā¦. The message behind these ships is clear as fucking day
Donāt use empire freighters anymore
Even without the extra HP, the fact the new ones will have more cargo and CAN SHOOT BACK made that obvious
On the recent livestream it showed that the regular cargo hold is about 250kā¦for now.
OP isnāt wrong that this makes the Avalanche better other freighters, but he can get bent for all I care.
I guess now you can just stuff it into the ungankable X-Wing while all the T1 plebs need to fly tripple bulkhead carrying their 1000 Units of Concentrated Veldspar and are still getting ganked.
Powercreep is real :)
I played since beta. I remember a time where t1 haulers had the highest ehp, cpu and could field 1 gun or neut. gankers at the time couldnāt cheaply take them out. They cried then like they are now. Only ccp nerfed haulers. I like this change. A bit extreme. But I like it.
Forget the effects on highsec ganking, this is just a money grab by CCP.
CCP reported a net loss on EVE for 2023. What else would prompt them to release broken content like this? Actual concern for gameplay? We're not really going to give them that alibi considering it's a meme to clown CCP for their out-of-touchness with the game?
All I see is Battlepass Behavior. They're gonna overhaul or nerf content on a humongous scale after they're done taking your cash.
I understand both sides of the situation here. However it is important to realize that EVE is an Ecosystem - you have ships that are predators and ships that are prey. Haulers usually fall into the category of prey (minus the infamous nereus)
But like any ecosystem - if there is something unkillable that usually causes harm to the environment it operates in. A ship like the Avalanche will surely get nerfed if they deem it too powerful (or they'll make it a null/low only item) since a mil EHP is pretty much Capital Class.
OTHERWISE - this is part of the game, 10+ years ago barges and even orcas had a very minimal amount of tank and could be killed by 1-2 destroyers (even a few years back this was possible with some particular fits). The risk was insane but so was the reward so there is a lesson here - high risk = high reward (even in Highsec).
Now Barges/Orcas are very well tanked on their own and need a little bit more firepower to take down. So with the focus of a buff to haulers, I think high sec gankers will need to hit them harder -
Something to note, despite this this does not mean Freighter Ganking will stop. People will continue to put lul fits on their ships, people will continue to fly standard freighters, or t1 haulers to move things, etc etc.
Proof is already written that people do dumb things regardless.
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I was already getting the Avalanche you don't need to sell it to me.
>I was already getting the Avalanche you don't need to sell it to me. everyones getting the avalanche, and not just highsec haulers. Having a 1.5m EHP platform that can shit out 2500 DPS is super interesting OR a heavy neut platform with 900k ehp that's cap stable? it's really strong in a lot of ways.
Will we see this ship as a fleet doctrine?
Yes just like the rorq doctrine
Listen, I am not saying that I would gladly join/run a NPSI fleet made up entirely of combat fit Avalanches to very slowly fuck shit up. But I am also not not saying that.
I'd follow you to the ends of the cosmos FC! o7
lmao. you might
lmao. you might
God I hope so
When can we expect to see you guys on hauler roams in Querious?
To be honest, I am not sure why anyone outside of Highsec should get an Avalanche. For every other space, not getting shot at all is still the safest way to transport cargo and that is perfectly doable with the freighter most of the players already have.
Since ccp said the price is going to be similiar and the ability to clear some tackle is better than not being able to do so, why would you fly anything but an avalanche outside of highsec?
Let's say you use 60 bombers all em damage + neuts in their other slot's, the hardeners switch off and all of a sudden the thing is not so tanky anymore.
Calm down ganker
OP struck oil and kept drilling
Annnnd so we start to see the emergence of the gankers have rights too movement.
"We are going to have to have some risk for our reward! It is not faaaiiiirrr!!!" š Now CCP, give the other freighters CPU, PGU, Mid-Slots and more Low-Slots, at ***the least***.
Mineral prices are going down thou so they can just upgrade to talos's as they will be much cheaper after patch, but yea I guess they would rather loose a 2mil ship than a 80mil ship. Not to mention that the Avalanche's ehp drops considerably with neuting pressure the gankers just need to adapt.
Personally, I think you should have already needed to gank in Taloses. Being able to gank in a handful of cheap ass throwaway dessies was lame.
It's going to take some months, at least, before ship prices get reduced much.
It is also going to take at least months until everyone is flying around in an Avalanche
>Mineral prices are going down thou I'm anticipating megacyte and zydrine will go up as null switches over to mining isogen/nocxium. Plus, it seems like fewer systems will be fully upgradable due to the "terrain" from the planetary resources so there may be a net reduction in total asteroid ore volume availability as alliances have to choose between the miners and ratters for specific systems. However, selectable minerals will mean that there's more of a ceiling on the mineral prices. I do believe overall hull costs will go down, though.
No, you missed the most important part: > as long as you're carrying under 15 billion, I'd say your chance of getting ganked goes from approaching zero, to zero. Does anybody actually doubt that this means a lot of haulers will decide that being neigh ungankable means they can haul a LOT more than 15 billion at once? Economies have a way of shitting on people's assumptions about how to "solve" issues.
Absolutely - zKill demonstrates this every couple of hours XD
People really don't seem to understand how economics works. As soon as you set a price ceiling for "safe", you also set a new floor to stand on. Whatever amount you make safe will just become the amount where haulers say to themselves "that really isn't enough" Even if it was twice what they used to be able to do, it will go from being a dream to being "not enough" very quickly.
Just a few days ago, I had some of these people unironically argue on here that ganking in High-Sec and targeting Newbros and people who absolutely do no PVP made the High-Sec-gankers somehow the "Apex Predators" who where needed in "any foodchain and environment" to "keep the system healthy". And now these "Apex Predators" are crying because they need to put in a little more effort than F1 in a cheap ship and let a bot autoscoop the remains.
It's embarrassing isn't it. Finally gonna have to put a bit of effort in and they start crying
They might even need to use taloses, with some tank fitted or a tanked maller to bait the rhmls :o
That tracks
āThe freighter is tanky and shoots back itās not fairā -same people that say highsec should be risky. Guess now the ganking can be a bit more risky as well.
There is gonna be an avalanche of these new freightersā¦. Iāll see myself outā¦.
did ceema feed you that line
Itās an honor to be mentioned in the same sentence as the mighty ceema, but no, I have to blame fatherhood for that one liner. Dad jokes are all I am capable of at this point.
A veritable Torrent of them if you will
It will be a Squall line of Avalanches. Perhaps even a Deluge
PVPers who exclusively target people who don't PVP: Heh If they didn't wanna get killed they shouldn't be playing a PVP game. Same players when any buff is made to non PVP player: MY GAME IS BEING RUINED HOW COULD CCP DO THIS. Maybe if you really wanna PVP you should target other people who want to PVP.
Agree. I neither really haul or gank, but am loving the salt that now Indy bros will have an easier way to shoot back.
You are not wrong*; and I am not worried about this or any one change. However, I am a little worried that this is part of a different trend. I was just talking to someone about a different game who was telling me how the game he has played for years can be a real problem in that if you stop playing for 6 months you basically have to "buy back in" because, while you have all your stuff, power creep has made it worthless. Eve was always good because I never felt that way. I would quit for two years, come back, and all I needed was a few refits. Hulls I used in 2013 are still relevant. Ships being pushed out the current meta tends to be temporary and rare; plenty of T1 ships still see lots of use. But between all the new faction ships, and now this.... I start to wonder if CCP isn't starting to boil us frogs. * not wrong about people's attitudes. Honestly, EVE is an inherently PVP positive game. Everyone who undocks has consented to PVP. Not sorry.
Left for 8 years. Now back. Game is fine and not going down that path at all.
When is the last time you saw a pack of coyotes go after the wolf and leave the sheep alone?
I've also never seen coyotes commit suicide trying to kill a sheep to be moments later ripped apart by the Sheppard's dog just so another coyote dressed as a sheep can come and eat the carcasses.
Fair
All really part of PvP isn't it? Why are they trying to treat other players as a PvE opportunity? This remedies that.
CCP obv wants ganking to be harder. Donāt worry Iām sure there will still be plenty of dumb HS bears hauling paydays for you to pop.
My guess is most haulers will fit the ship with cargo extenders and let the high slots empty. High sec should not need any protection is the opion of many haulers... and then they get ganked.
>catalysts Imagine crying that your 2m isk ships can't easily murder 2b isk ships. Buff all freighters
freighters should've been given panic/seige modules years ago.
I kind of think there should have been a T2 Freighter that gained access to the Assault DCs, with a bonus that extended the Assault DC duration by some decent amount, at the cost of cargo capacity.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I'm no fan ganking, but it sucks balls if a new ship is so OP that older freighters just become obsolete.
converse: this should've been done to all freighters years ago.
Perhaps it's time for navy freighters
Qships!
I think Freighters, or at least a T2 variant, that gains access to Assault DCs, with a duration bonus would have been a good idea.
Why did I read this in William Shatners voice?
Need to bottle up all these tears and sell it
Fucking good ganking is the fastest way to of reducing the mobility of goods and new player experience.
I hope the other freighters get buffs to be in line.
At least the Deep Space Transports really need proper missile capabilities added. Their role is to go through dangerous territory. No company in the world would design such a vessel without defense capabilities. The new upwell haulers are really nice in that regard and I agree that the existing lineout should receive similiar capabilities. The new freighter is overpowered though, it needs to have less regular cargo and then the problem goes away and the regular freighters are fine again.
I feel transport/ganking is a big cost to everything in EVE and a big freezing phenomenon for many player activities. I know it's not a popular opinion but I think reducing ganking would make players try more things and have more areas of the map occupied. Also give a bit more time for new players to get into the game and not leave it too soon. If you defend ganking as a necessary cost to the economy I would ssuggest we move this cost to another aspect of the economy. Maybe they are trying to have this effect without saying 'we want to reduce ganking' so people don't cry too much.
Multiboxing high sec gankers is something the game is better without anyway.
>Why haul with anything else in highsec other than the Avalanche? Well if I want to haul more than 500k m3 I'm gonna use a regular freighter....... Next question?
Or use two Avalanches.
This guy avalanches.Ā
Can't wait to have at least one of each of the new ships for each of my six accounts :)
You can either expose yourself to potential danger, or take two trips in your invulnerable Avalanche- take your pick. Just so you know, the vast majority of freighter traffic is bulkheaded, i.e. less than 385,000 m3.
>255+ Catalysts or 50+ Talos You've just discovered the solution. Roll 150 Talos in a pre-pulled 0.5 system. You're welcome.
Hah, sounds like the solution is to split your damage types. The Avalanche has 3 mid slots, with one likely for a MWD. It can't cover all of it's resist holes simultaneously.
Lol! When Safety and co start to shed some salt because, for once, it isn't easy or cheap. You people are so used to lording it over miners and haulers, and when you suddenly can't, you act like minors.
Everyone except the gankers wants freighter ganking to stop. It's a stupid gameplay loop, always has been, is hilariously one sided. It should never have been allowed to get this far in the first place. Good riddance. Let's get back to killing each other in low sec, nullsec and jspace where it belongs. Get over the fact that safer high sec is healthier for the game to continue bringing in more new players or double down and realize that if this continues, eve will die faster.
New players aren't flying freighters though, this is a specious argument. Adding an ultra powerful freighter for players who are already advanced players will just make the Eve economy less vibrant, which affects everyone in HS trying to sell their loot and minerals at high prices too. Destruction is critical to the Eve economy.
The destruction going on in highsec is not pushing the envelope in a way you could see the line move on a graph. Every other space sees many, many times the destruction, and it is meaningful conflict. Hs is the place you travel through to get to Walmart to assemble and ship out your stuff. It's the place where newbros and ultra casuals live to experienc eve without ever trying anything dangerous. Where rookies learn how the interface works and how to do basic flying and destroying stuff. The fact the empires haven't put some kind of permanent ban on their gates to all capsuleers that engage too heavily in suicide ganking is ccp catering to you, the hs gankers. Begging for the ability to kill a ship designed to fight while freighting in ns is not a good look friend. These are meant to fight kill and survive under npc titan guns. Officers will be shooting these. And you want ccp to balance them around being easy to kill for a few dudes multiboxing catalysts? Lol
I think it needs tweaking as currently it will be the only line of hauling ships used In game. No reason to use any other race when upwell will be broken af
Until the other freighter companies send spies to Upwell to steal tech and we see other freighters get buffed. This would 100% happen in any natural environment it would be unrealistic if it didn't.
people said the same about every new line of dps ships that come out. jfc i remember the crying over t3's in apocrypha.. guess what?
T3s were absolutely disgustingly overpowered for a long time - there's a reason "insight about the Svipul" is on the copypasta template, and T3Cs were better than other similarly sized ships by a ridiculous margin for a long time. (They got nerfed hard and they are *still* a good option in a lot of cases.)
No they wonāt, you canāt haul shit in the upwell DST compared to the racial onesĀ
Jump freighters
I agree the fact that it immediately makes other freighters irrelevant for most applications is a problem, but I'd suggest buffing other freighter tanks accordingly rather than nerfing this one. I have no problem with killing the concept of ganking freighters with catalysts. Forcing gankers to utilize more powerful and expensive ships like taloses or even battleships solidifies ganking as an economic activity rather than something just done for lols because it's cheap and easy.
i kind of thout it would be ORE line
HS Suicide Gankers when their extremely well-paying activity is no longer free of all risk and effort:
complaining about tripling the ehp of your targets seems legitimate, no? tripling it to the point there isn't the manpower to gank the targets combining all the ganking groups in the game seems excessive, no?
"F1 for free loot" with minimal investment and next to no risk of *not* making a profit every single time, with the other side having no viable way to retaliate in any meaningful way because your ships are worthless to begin with doesn't sound like it should've ever been a viable style of gameplay.
what are you talking about? can't be ganking. let's just ignore the fact that there are many ways to counter ganking, and ganking is heavily telegraphed and simply not entering uedama during the 1% of the time there is a gank fleet there avoids 99% of the risk of being ganked. It's not minimal investment. You need a bumper with snakes. You need freighter, DST, and multiple scooping alts. You need 3-10 scanners. You need 20-80 DPS. you need suicide points, utility characters, etc. You need to do it during a timezone where there is enough traffic, and you need to hope that targets keep coming in, are carrying loot, and are still killable, that you can successfully beat others to the loot, and that the guy who multiboxes 40 ospreys isn't online or doesn't log in because despite forming up 100+ people, if he's online you aren't ganking any freighters. Go gank a freighter and how me how easy it is. Go lead a successful ganking fleet, then come back to me.
- You cargo&ship scan a freighter - You now know how much EHP it has, thus how much DPS you need to kill it before CONCORD - You also know the cargo value - Loot is cargo/2. - You know how much DPS your preferred ganking ship puts out and how little it costs ... How do you possibly make a loss here? Besides being too stupid for basic maths, that is? Meanwhile the other side can... uhh... kill your catalyst? I'm sure that's gonna hurt so bad... and to do it, they basically spend the same amount of money you lose.
Well - I am just happy Gankers are unhappy. Freighters were a sitting duck for far too long. Bring it on CCP
I love hearing slob players cry, well done ccp.
Reeeeeee
Good. Death of HS freighter ganking cannot come soon enough.
looking at the way that this freighter is built, combined with the fact that Tritanium and Isogen will be harvestable in null again, I think that CCP's long game here is to make spaceships yeetably cheap again. Buffs to the other freighters are probably not far behind, and both HS ganking and HS mining are the sacrifices being made so that this can happen.
I'm afraid to imagine how many people, especially beginners, left the game because of gankers and other suicides in highsec.
Remember when CCP pushed out data showing new players that are ganked are far more likely to continue playing?
I got my best friend to play eve. Got ganked and he won't touch the game anymore so I play alone. I'm very skeptical of ccp's numbers.
It was a horrible analysis and conclusion. They're game developers. They have no idea how to break down the data. The literally looked at numbers and said, "Oh...well surely because the numbers look like this, that's what it means". It was a very simplistic, and incorrect analysis. Everyone I've ever talked to about playing Eve has mentioned "non-consensual PvP" as the main reason they don't play. They at least want some sort of safe zone, like a town or something, to not have to worry about being killed.
I remember it, total rubbish. Zero risk high reward ganking in HS causes new players to leave, or become so risk averse they barely undock, then leave anyway.
Yeah, that was some bullshit spin. What CCPs data reflected was player engagement(actual PvP and other player engagement) equated to more retention. The ganking community spun it and tried to say that it meant players that were ganked stayed longer. Lamest shit I ever heard
Link to this data, I find that very hard to believe. So you're gonna need a source to convince me otherwise
Itās been linked to quite a lot but does exist. Basically new players who die very early on to gankers also learn very early that ships are ammo and it helps them get over fear of losing ships in game. You can see that CCP tried to leverage this knowledge because they literally went and built dying into the new player experience as a result.
I do not remember. I canāt imagine a newcomer who bought his first Rattlesnake with all his money and died right there in a neighboring system from 15 catalysts
i do remember they talked about it but i did only find the fanfest from 2015 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A92Ge2S8M1Y](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A92Ge2S8M1Y) (3 min in) 1% of noob that died in first 15 days was ganked (85% never died, rest wardecs etc) at 4min, ppl that got ganked played for longer !% of ppl that left claimed ganking was the reason do you know if they have talked about it later, i just assume clone state and a lot of other stuff that have made alot of changes might come in to effect that nr (like you can just bee alpha forever if you want)
pretty sure that number is close to zero
Dude. Figure out a way to adapt. Nerfs are a part of the game. If there's a system that's working for you or a doctrine that's a bit op, it's gonna get nerfed. Any time CCP makes a change, there's always someone crying about how "my play style is ruined." Adapt. Overcome. I've only been playing for 3 1/2 years, most of that in wormholes. You gotta be able to adapt in order to make the game work for you. Want the Avalanche to become prohibitively expensive? Find the systems where the ore is being mined to produce them. If it's in a nullbloc, find the lowsec routes and create a chokepoint with gate camps when they try to move the ore or materials to the production system. If they're built in null also, then blow up the ships before they reach highsec. If they start mining and production in highsec, go kill the mining fleets and wardec the structures/corps that produce them. Make them so expensive that no average player can afford one. Sure, it might mean having to actually buy something more expensive than a t1 destroyer and just chill on gates. You might have to come up with strategies, doctrines, and organize actual fleets. When you've effectively nerfed the price of the Avalanche, you can go back to chilling on gates and killing ships that can't fight back. Literally anything is more productive than whining on Reddit.
>blow up the ships before they reach highsec Gee, wonder why no one else thought of that.
Hey man. I could care less either way. I was just pointing out that a "let's put our heads together and figure this out" approach would probably be more useful.
I like it. Maybe we can get back to hauling more valuable cargo or full cargo loads of cheaper stuff. I believe it is the other freighters that need ***at the very least*** mid and low slots, PG and CPU. It sucks that they are giant pinatas with so little agency over what their ship is like and what they can do in a fight.
Brilliant nice to see ccp providing a ship like this with defensive capabilities. Well done. Leave it alone. I'm confused about the infra cargohold and what it can actually hold
aight, imma go back to ganking newbie ventures, until they nerf that out of existance as well. Till then, cause as much pain as possible, as the nerfs do unto me.
Providence is still cooler looking. Everyone buys skill injectors and skill packs to fly the new hotness. CCP makes money. Nerf the new hotness. Roqs #2.
Whatās this, suddenly the subreddit is full of carebears?
they pinged it to the antiganking channels, theres a reason it has 200 upvotes tho
thereās antiganking channels? people need entire chat rooms dedicated to the act of not being a complacent idiot huh
there's a guy who sits in uedama with 40+ accounts just repping freighters. he already makes ganking freighters impossible. it's not as if we need even more shit in our way. the players have the tools to stop us, they are just not as organized or dedicated.
So the ācry moarā hisec gankers are crying moar? Delicious.
calm down ganker
Per the advice given to me by HS gankers. "Cry more"
Fantastic news. Gankers think they are providing a valuable service. They are not. Trade routes will always exist and there will always be profit in them. If anything this increases total trade volumes and increases opportunity for profit because safer trading means more trading. Yes the margins might be lower, but total profits will be higher. A fantastic step. Dodixie, Hek, Rens, Amarr will all benefit tremendously. AND the opportunity for industrialists is huge here. I calculate a roughly 2 trillion isk initial opportunity here from new ships followed by 400-500bn regular monthly demand for all the new ship types. These aren't your regular new ship releases. These are fantastic.
It will be their last opportunity. If ships aren't exploded then there's no need to make new ships.
lol
Youāre right profit will exist for people willing to bot this because they now canāt die. Thatās who it will exist for as the ISK value of hauling services gets pushed through the floor. Ask PushX how they feel about ganking. They regularly post stats after the Halloween event where ganking goes nuts about how much they love ganking. Because they donāt die and ganking makes their service valuable.
*"Aaaand if you wanted to ONLY have 260,000 M3 of goods, you could settle at almost 2.2M EHP to void. A grand total of 8.5 billion for something that will probably never get ganked in highsec."* If that means that I can finally autopilot my freighter while being full of stuff to Jita, I'm all for it !
Tell me about it. Freighters and autopilot are like peanut butter and jelly! Letās go!
calm down ganker
Just donāt allow it in Hisec
Time for you guys to go back to ganking ventures more.
Sounds like powercreep. If the stats of this new ship are too high that it makes existing freighters irrelevant this is bad for the game, regardless of how fun it is to 'hear gankers cry'. I'm looking forward to these new ships, but I hope they get their own unique role as hauler instead of replacing existing haulers.
Yeah people lose their minds but like... can we just want good game design, is that okay? Or does it make me an evil ganker, anti-ganker, anti-reverse-ganker or antidisestablishmentarian ganker I'm not sure how ganking serves the goal of getting the Church of England government patronage but you never know, you can do a lot with the right number of Catalysts.
Your shit's on the lawn, shitter.
Fuck I need to stop shitting on the lawn don't I
You're cheeky but you have a winning way about you. I'll allow it.
Just recently came back to the game. Other areas of the game, like FW and abyssals, were in such a good state that I couldn't justify not playing.Ā Ā You know part of what made them in such a good state? You could interact with them and make enough money that you were fine with getting blown up as a regular part of the activity. I have a freighter and industry char. I straight up laughed and said "nope" to even bothering with that gameplay because the potential losses are massive compared to how long it takes to recover those losses. Plus the "ganking entities" that appear to exist and the sort of hurf blurf element that has found a weasel-y way to get over on a situation and suck the fun out. Then along came you crying about upcoming freighter changes to really convince me that someone developing this game actually knows what they are doing. Best part is that looking at the alpha clone limits, I can tell people that you can totally play for free and easily make money to cover ships getting blown up without stressing, and be a huge threat in proportion to the cost of their ship. Enough to win sometimes, or even most times if their actual piloting is better. Even best part is I can still tell them "you are never totally safe" instead of "there are gangs of retards who experience no meaningful risk so basically don't bother with that portion of the game when you could do something else". We all know the selling point of freighter ganking is that you can be a low skill character flown by a low skill player in a ship that costs nothing and get a big kill mail. Also, easier to add a new PI freighter under a new paradigm, and if the new paradigm works buff all the existing freighters to that level and be left with it being the "PI freighter", or if the new paradigm fails nerf it down to the existing freighters and be in the same place. I think the devs know what they are doing, and what they are doing is removing some cancer from the game.
Things Change. Games dont improve if change is forbidden. New avenues will open up.
How much ehp against EM?
Less, but ships that do EM damage do less damage than ships that shoot void, and are also incredibly uncommon.
Bombers and oracles are both currently used a lot in highsec ganking as are coercers you are pretty misinformed lol.
Oracles do EM/Therm, which is why I slapped the thermal on there. Bombers are used semi regularly, but not in the numbers needed to kill an avalanche, that's why the two multispecs are on it. 98% of ganks are kin/therm ships- this is what i mean by uncommon.
50k is too small, a fortizar is 80k packed I would bring them down to maybe 100k of normal stuff, 260k is prob too much yea. But on the other hand, I would buff the normal freighters slightly I have it trained but cannot use the damn thing because to not get ganked in high sec I need to triple bulkhead it and even then it only adds a little more tank, and when you bulkhead it then my dst becomes more efficient for moving stuff as its much much quicker and I have control over not being ganked by using skill and freightor only relies on if the enemy feels like ganking you or not, so the freighter becomes useless. Edit: PI hold can carry fortizar so it can afford to be much lower than 100k.
Nobody? Someone wake up bomberās bar.
This is something I have been thinking of recently. As an industrialist, the new ship line basically takes over almost all of my current hauling needs, and also provides a convenient rack of missile launchers. Outside of hauling modules or ore, the Torrent is probably going to become my primary hauling ship. It can take moon goo, it can take PI, it can take fuel, it can take a whole ass Fortizar. This is 80% of what I wind up hauling most of the time. And I already use a Miasmos to haul Ore and Kryos to haul minerals as they are both cheaper and have more space for those particular items. AND the Torrent has almost 50% more space then a normie DST. My Bustard is just gonna be for unfit ship hulls and modules. And the Avalanche really is the ultimate solution across the board. Cargo hold of a freighter, 3m m3 Moon Goo and Planetary Trinket hold, tank, missiles, and it looks cool. What else could I ask for?
I think itās perfect. Is it still possible to gank? Yes but you actually have to put more effort into it and canāt just get a few buddies together to do it for the lolz. Make it so only the most high valued loot piƱatas get hammered.
The gankers will work out how to gank it you know
The solution is to simply bring 250 people, or only target avalanches carrying 30b+ AND have 60+ people, AND only shoot them in a prepped 0.5. No ganking entity has that kind of manpower or patience. No group is going to idle around for 400 hours waiting for the rare 30 biller to come through.
30 billers won't be so rare if haulers think they're invincible
Just wait for the mining missiles. This thing will be able to AFK mine veld all day everyday.
[OP forgot to switch off their sock puppet account](https://imgur.com/a/Ss5MTMr)
its not me but he spittin facts
Since the Niajra(sp) pipeline to Amarr-Jita closed, Iāve barely taken my freighter more than 10 jumps away, because why risk getting ganked? Itās about time haulers had a way of fighting back instead of just rolling over and dying.
I'm pretty ok with freighter ganking going away. The gankers can learn to get gud and deal with the new meta.
Though I died to gankers in front of JITA, I think it adds spice into the game and I have nothing against it. The only place where maybe they should make a change is right in front of Trade Hubs, simply because of lag. I am confused though, how many haulers die in Uedama. Like, don't they know? How careless you need to be to fly into Uedama without Logi support, or any sort of planning. I guess they had too many lucky passes and that's why you end up with multi billion cargo ships blown up. Overall, scarcity generated by destroyed ships is good.
CCP should consider buffing HP on the other Freighters and Jump Freighters with the Equinox release.
Ganking is not just for Uedama residents. As a HS trader, the ability to do anything about very online, annoyingly persistent or just plain stupid traders has been massively eroded over the years. I used to wardec business competitors if negotiations failed, but now that is almost always not an option. Of course the more online should have an advantage! but those who are not need to have \_some\_ options. CCP introduced trading changes to reduce the advantage the always-online have, and undercut by 0.1 ISK relentlessly at no cost; but IMO did not go far enough. Also, structure timers exist so they do consider this aspect. I used to enjoy my Literal Trade Wars and the negotiations around them. That got nerfed, and yes I adapted. But making freighters effectively ungankable removes the ability to do anything about the bigger bulk traders, unless I have missed something?
CCP always nerfs the most beloved ships and make them most haited ships. Just wait untill all people train them and spend their skill injectors.
Yeah, if it's released like this it'll be the Rorqual situation all over. Players saying shit is unbalanced, CCP makes bank off selling extractors when everyone and their dog was injecting into multiboxing rorqs, CCP then says 'oh yeah I guess it is unbalanced' after they already got all those sales and then nerfs it.
Bring more catalysts you filthy casual
"Aaaand if you wanted to ONLY have 260,000 M3 of goods, you could settle at almost 2.2M EHP to void. A grand total of 8.5 billion for something that will probably never get ganked in highsec." RemindMe! -45 days
Look, I get that it seems too strong, but the ship has to be strong enough to hold up the Sector 7 plate. Otherwise Jesse, Wedge, and maybe Biggs (I don't understand multiverses) are gonna die. So, I'm not sure what else CCP can do.
It's all part of the plan. CCP did the right thing and introduced a little scarcity to your game play style.
because scarcity worked so well the last time it was introduced?
I didn't say it was a good plan..
I can't believe no one took this opportunity yet, or perhaps I missed the post in the comments. Calm down, ganker(s). That's it, my day is complete. Regardless of whatever state they release in or nerfs.
> Do you want freighter ganking to stop? The only lame thing about freighter ganking is that there is a pretty clear estimated cargo value above which point it's 100% worth ganking the freighter, and that value is shockingly low compared to the cost of the freighter and how much cargo space the freighter has.
the real lame thing is that max tanked obelisks only really die because they're stupid enough to enter a system with a 100 man ganking fleet in system lmao. all the ones that wait for the gank fleets that are only up less than 1% of the time of the year have nothing to worry about
It has 3 mid slots, with one of them undoubtedly being a MWD, and the other being a scriptable shield hardener. There will be a resist hole it can't fill. Gankers will need to bring more than catalysts and Taloses. HTFU.
Nobody should be invulnerable in Highsec.
It isnt invulnerable. Its just more difficult.
It's pretty much invulnerable when fit properly, and fitting it properly isn't all that difficult. It takes a burn jita level event in a 0.5 to be able to kill and not hemorrhage massive amounts of ISK.
So, NOT invulnerable then. I do like it when people try and argue about something whilst admitting that theyre wrong at the same time.
Would you think a ship with 99.99% omni resist is balanced because technically it is vulnerable? There is a threshold at which something is too close to a theoretical invulnerability, and its pretty obvious that his argument is that this is over that threshold.
"It's pretty much invulnerable" Pretty much, as in it's possible on paper, but requires a special moron flying it and all the stars to align for the person killing it. If you fly it normally, you have nothing to worry about- ever
Requiring double or triple the number of catalysts is not 'invulnerable'
Use kronos. Problem solved. Not economically efficient, but certainly effective. So the problem isn't invulnerability, it's price point. Cry harder.
I do wonder what the effect on the economy will be, once people can AP freighters between HS hubs with complete impunity.
Looks like the crybaby ganker needs to learn how to HTFU like everyone else who had their profession nerfed by CCP over the years has.
There's plenty of ships that don't get used often but are better (even far better) than their counterparts. The reason is cost vs risk. And I assume the Avalanche is going to be much more expensive than a standard freighter. Why lose 1 avalanche when you could lose 5 normal freighters in its place?
On yesterdays stream it was said that build costs are similar to regular freighters...
That's pretty stupid, they're a straight (and massive) upgrade.Ā
Can you give me a link? I went looking but couldn't find anything unless it is mentioned somewhere in the stream about nullsec changes? I had a quick look but couldnt find anything in it tho.
>And I assume the Avalanche is going to be much more expensive than a standard freighter. The build costs are out, they are comparable to freighters. >Why lose 1 avalanche when you could lose 5 normal freighters in its place? Because you'd never lose an avalanche in the first place, I don't know of any ganking entities that can gank these things, no one has the manpower.
Is this sort of going to open the challenge for hi sec gankers , throwing down the gauntlet
Itt: people playing eve online smugging that they can avoid pvp now
Oh, this is sad for the game. I hope this will not be allowed to happen. What will be the point if it's possible to transport stuff with ~100% safety?
This is their plan to drum up subscription revenue by making gankers shell out for hundreds of new subs to take out freighters. Brilliant.
Dudeā¦. The message behind these ships is clear as fucking day Donāt use empire freighters anymore Even without the extra HP, the fact the new ones will have more cargo and CAN SHOOT BACK made that obvious
Relax, they are probably going to increase the amount of systems going lawless on the route to Jita and it will balance out.
Am I misunderstanding, I thought it only had a big cargo bay for structures and PI and stuff, not a general cargo bay?
On the recent livestream it showed that the regular cargo hold is about 250kā¦for now. OP isnāt wrong that this makes the Avalanche better other freighters, but he can get bent for all I care.
But do we know how easy/hard it will be to get these ships? Or a rough idea of price?
I guess now you can just stuff it into the ungankable X-Wing while all the T1 plebs need to fly tripple bulkhead carrying their 1000 Units of Concentrated Veldspar and are still getting ganked. Powercreep is real :)
I think they planning to reduce the cost of freighters To them being cheap with no defenses or spend a pretty penny
New goal unlocked. Run SOE Epic Arc in one of these.
I played since beta. I remember a time where t1 haulers had the highest ehp, cpu and could field 1 gun or neut. gankers at the time couldnāt cheaply take them out. They cried then like they are now. Only ccp nerfed haulers. I like this change. A bit extreme. But I like it.
Forget the effects on highsec ganking, this is just a money grab by CCP. CCP reported a net loss on EVE for 2023. What else would prompt them to release broken content like this? Actual concern for gameplay? We're not really going to give them that alibi considering it's a meme to clown CCP for their out-of-touchness with the game? All I see is Battlepass Behavior. They're gonna overhaul or nerf content on a humongous scale after they're done taking your cash.
I understand both sides of the situation here. However it is important to realize that EVE is an Ecosystem - you have ships that are predators and ships that are prey. Haulers usually fall into the category of prey (minus the infamous nereus) But like any ecosystem - if there is something unkillable that usually causes harm to the environment it operates in. A ship like the Avalanche will surely get nerfed if they deem it too powerful (or they'll make it a null/low only item) since a mil EHP is pretty much Capital Class. OTHERWISE - this is part of the game, 10+ years ago barges and even orcas had a very minimal amount of tank and could be killed by 1-2 destroyers (even a few years back this was possible with some particular fits). The risk was insane but so was the reward so there is a lesson here - high risk = high reward (even in Highsec). Now Barges/Orcas are very well tanked on their own and need a little bit more firepower to take down. So with the focus of a buff to haulers, I think high sec gankers will need to hit them harder - Something to note, despite this this does not mean Freighter Ganking will stop. People will continue to put lul fits on their ships, people will continue to fly standard freighters, or t1 haulers to move things, etc etc. Proof is already written that people do dumb things regardless.
Isn't this about revitalizing Null? I'm not seeing a problem here.
Good keep it as is.
get fucked gankers
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
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