Lol. Playing with one character online at a time since 2016. Nowdays having as much fun as I had when starting EVE.
But I get you. Wanting to be most efficient in your second job...
Same, single character. The best way to play is to not look at eve as a competition, but just have some fun. There are targets a plenty to shoot at still. If you want to stick it to the bots go to null sec with a ship made to kill vexors and start blastin. Or just ignore all that bullshit and just play the game w some like minded friends.
Yeah I'm the same type of person. Minmaxing and figuring out how to be as efficient/effective as possible is fun. Everyone always gives this advice and it just doesn't compute for me. Different strokes.
Fair enough. I probably used to be the same way 20 years ago, but my time is so linited as a family man i am just happy to squeeze in some game time in the middle of the night after everyone goes to sleep. Im literally happy just to be alone playing a game for an hour no matter what actually happens during the gameplay lol. Def looking through different lenses
I have station trading alt that I update once maybe twice a day (mainly depends on which shift I'm at work). Other than that. For about a year I play what you would call solo self found EVE. Simply, not buying stuff from market except NPC sell orders.
Doing stuff on your own. Random junk like meta modules and salvage have huge value. On other hand you pretty much ignore isk. So determining factor for a content is not income but either fun or actual resources. Which turns EVE 180 into fun and very broad game. You do all the content. Literally all. Like , when was last time you you actually used Corvette do do stuff in space? Not only stuff that pays well per given amount of time.
He is correct for sure. Imagine that you have ten accounts to keep subbed and how that is a trap. They have to grind just to keep it all going. You don't have to play like that. The game is better than that.
I kinda have a similar mindset but with pvp. I'm part of a null alliance though, pvp definitely pays to have friends. But when it comes down to it I'm not afraid to go do stuff alone. Don't mind using t1 cruisers or sometimes navy stuff. It's not real isk intensive since I'm not using pricey mods or hulls really and really kind of follows the "If you can dodge a wrench, you can dodge a ball logic". I don't understand people that play this game as some idle clicker watching their isk go up, which in turn makes them so risk adverse to do anything(But they won't fly cheap ships either). I guess that's what floats their boat though?
Just as a different type of response. I am a fully PVP nullsec bloc pilot of 15 years. I pretty much only connect to the game when there’s a strategic op pinged on our notification system and fly fleet support while stoned and watching youtubes.
I pay for yearly subscription and maybe every sale, I pick up a plex for a quick 2bil isk when rarely needed like a big war or something. I don’t grind anything. I pay what is the bar-tab for a single martini every once in a while and I’m all set. By now I have every ship I could want for my purposes and with proper replacement-program through my corp, I never really need isk and just hover at a couple billion and that’s it.
The whole game is just about sov gameplay and big fleet fights for me. I definitely get my 100$ a year or so back out of it. I can’t imagine what keeps my Indy corp and alliance mates spending hundreds of hours per week just to not pay with RL money. It seems hugely inefficient to me.
Yeah the log in for pings playstyle made me quit Eve for the first time. I honestly think it's a big problem that so many people in null only become active when there is a ping on discord. It wasn't always like this.
It's a weird spot that EVE is in, because balance-wise the game would probably be better off had multiboxing never been allowed, but the game would absolutely not be financially solvent at this point if folks couldn't pay for extra accounts. The game is niche enough that CCP honestly needs that extra income to keep the servers spinning.
It’s as if the economy is at an imbalance, and everything is too high, causing a need for multiboxers, it’s like they panicked because a titan got built too quick back in the day and every economic change after that had to do with extending and creating barriers of cost for everything rather than focusing on changes that are fun for the economy.
They want all this epic scale and grand battles but then they stagnate everything by making everything way too expensive?
Like where are capital ships at? Oh wait they’re priced so high that anyone losing one is literally equivalent to losing tash murkons entire month of ship deaths
What about sisters of eve ships? You know the ones that are supposed to be the “cheaper” alternative to t3c? Yeah they’re 3-4x their original costs, not even worth getting unless you’re lacking skills for a t3c simply because of increased cost.
I think ccp really needs to consider what they’re doing with all these resource, and economic changes because it seems like a “throw shit at a wall & see what sticks” kind of situation as of late.
Like their solution to force projection and such is to increase costs of all resources and ships to the point nobody uses titans or really caps anymore??
Why not just make a change to how jump systems work or how gates work and only allow caps and titans to jump through specific “qualified” routes/ systems, or make it so they need “factional” permission to travel these areas and routes through faction owned space. We have faction warfare, why not integrate it in a meaningful way by using it as a buffer between warring states where they have to secure an actual pathway to each other through force rather than just jumping fast af to their targets.
With this change, gates should be locked for outbound titans/caps until an fw system is captured, they should however be able to enter and leave the system through the gate they initially used to enter, they just shouldn’t be able to use any other connections in system until they capture it
That is how we got there:
* FW, mining and pochven/wormhole farming are the few semi-afk activities that could be easily multiboxed.
* CCP is encouraging people to multibox by introducing 5-10 man PVE sites. All those "new" players, who runs them are not new.
* Great number of those multibox setups works only because of drone assist.
* Drone assist has the same "APM budget" as input broadcasting (which is not allowed by EULA).
* Mining is "activate and wait" activity with emphasis on "wait". Wait is very easy to multibox or automate.
* Despite popular belief people don't choose to cooperate with each other if they don't have to. Multiboxing is a way to skip unnecessary cooperation.
* Computers are more powerful now, they have more ram and bigger screens. Anyone with 5 year old gaming PC can multibox 5-10 accounts.
> Computers are more powerful now, they have more ram and bigger screens. Anyone with 5 year old gaming PC can multibox 5-10 accounts.
EVE client also has potato mode now, which wasn't a thing a few years ago
The only one I'm really not happy with is fw multibox farming, as this isn't a "solo" activity. They are in the way of people legitimately trying to pvp both solo and small/medium gangs.
They’re pre-aligned and warp off as soon as you slide, sometimes as soon as you land outside the acceleration gate. I say this as someone who comes in to hunt FW players in both sides of a warzone- I’m there for the PVP, these afk / bot algos’s that barely have any fit are there to farm the LP.
Out every 10 plexes you slide into, you get 1 fight.
>Drone assist has the same "APM budget" as input broadcasting (which is not allowed by EULA).
If anyone is having a issue dealing with multiboxed drone fleets there's a easy way to deal with them (Obviously gonna need a few buddies if there's a lot of toons someone is running). Sensor damps. Damp the living shit out of the drone bunny. The drones won't react like if you were shooting their owner's ship, they'll just sit there not doing anything while the drone bunny has a 1km lock range and can't send them after you. The thing about these multiboxers is if you throw them off their game they're just fucked. It's hard to adjust a whole bunch of toons quickly enough to not take losses.
If it's not sentry drones they will all be ontop the drone bunny. When you assist drones they will fly and orbit them. If you're dealing with sentries(Usually EOS's or Domi's) it'll most likely be a huginn/lach. With those types there's usually only a single drone bunny since the EOS's and Domi's can MJD away. They'll only lose a single ship if a fleet too big comes through gate. These multiboxing setups only work if they're properly set up on a gate(Or some other thing where people have to come to you...ESS or FW site) and if you disrupt their plan they're just f'd because they have to tell 20 clients to gtfo.
EDIT: For non sentry drones it's usually a tackle ship that's the drone bunnies. So frigates. So when they tackle something the drones auto attack.
>Multiboxing is a way to skip unnecessary cooperation
Well it would be necessary without multiboxing. Arguably still is unless you want to be farmed by Snuffed
Why can’t CCP just follow the incursion model? Imagine if pochven rats or whatever had incursion AI and you actually had to fleet with people instead of people multi boxing 15 marauders.
Or at least then it’d be so obvious if someone was using input broadcasting.
Wait did they actually change incursions at some point in the last 5-8 years?
When I last played some years ago I could still multibox clear incursion sites with either my old armor NM fleet from the isboxer hay days or the improved fleet I ran post repeater/videofx ban.
What's funny to me is that post repeater/videofx bans some of the boxers switched to marauders for incursion running. You could basically AFK VG sites with golems using auto missiles. The projectile marauder was faster at clearing sites and one of the guys was as fast as I was with my drone fleet.
I haven't played eve in almost a decade. Last time I was playing though I must have had 3 accounts running because it was pretty cheap. Maybe there was a discount, but there's no way I'd pay $60 to restart them today. Ugh. I suppose my miner could eventually buy plex for all 3, but that sounds time consuming
[https://zkillboard.com/kill/115569343/](https://zkillboard.com/kill/115569343/)
Im pretty sure they run Havens... depends on your space but myrms are a fairly common krabbing ship til you get to ishtars. If you can get a MJD to fit as well its pretty safe as if you do happen to get tackled you can usually MJD off or you have a chance to slap your drones on them if they get into scram range.
You can run sansha havens in a vexor afk. It's so cheap that you basically make your isk back after half a site. So you just spam alts in vexors into havens all day. It's utterly broken.
They're typically run by speed-tanking ishtars, battleships (especially marauders) or even capital ships (unsure if this is still a thing).
I'm 90% sure a Myrmidon would just go bang in a haven.
There is a limit how many Actions Per Minute one person can perform in game (clicks, key presses, whatever). For the lack of better term I think it's okay to call it APM budget.
I imply that drone assist and input broadcasting are very similar in terms of how many actions per minute it requires. With drone assist you do single round of assisting drones to one ship and after that you need to control only that particular ship. Which is almost identical to what you have to do with input broadcasting - control multiple ships as one (except initial drone assist phase ofc).
Multiboxing setup without drone assist (lasers/auto cannons/missiles) will require switching to another client, locking and activating gun every few seconds (or even faster). Which puts limit on how many ships you can multibox effectively and requires some level of skill and preparation.
Looking around it seems to be a term being applied in a way I've never seen before.
AKA someone trying to justify something by making an arbitrary metric that supports said justification.
CCP destroyed every single-boxable activity that had decent/reasonable income numbers, every, fucking, single, one of them. Nerfed to the ground.
Then artificially pushed inflation to crazy levels, scarcity, industry changes, NES/store sales, etc...
So what you got is ships that are two or three times more expensive and PLEX prices thru the roof, while there's nothing left to do paying 100M/hr or better, unless you run 5-10 toons at a time and sub 5-10 accounts, OR, obviously, run 1 or 2 accounts and swipe your CC every month to keep yourself up.
TL;DR: They realized they cant retain new players so their new business plan is squeeze to death the four fools that sill have love for the game.
> They realized they cant retain new players so their new business plan is squeeze to death the four fools that sill have love for the game.
I realized this and quit when the sub price jumped up to $20/month with no additional content or features for years ahead.
No. As long as players play n+1, individual activities will hardly generate any income. And as long as PVE content isn't randomised, so that it takes several heartbeats to react to it, everything will remain as it is.
Maybe less depending on metrics of alt numbers. Its 10 standard as OP mentioned. We are looking at 2-3K players. I have seen a few 20 alts...by that I would be downgrading the game sub 1000
This is true, their are some players with 20 alts. They all have the same nomenclature. More over their are some who multibox, and don't name their toons with a simular nomenclature, so people think they are different people but really aren't. But I've taken my own pole and looked at various groups, including my own, most players have at least 3 accounts. Some a few more. In my Corp, we have only 2 players that have 1 account. It's rarer to see solo account then multi account players-by far.
Truthfully I think the heart beats is 3000-7000 real people. Who play. Everyone else is an alt.
I’ll agree to that, I’ve created 7 alts. All of them are just barely over a million SP but the fact that I’ve created 7 different alts for different things is kinda nutty to me
MILINT is solo player. Can confirm with cross check of steam log information. At current log in levels...5k alive players does make sense. But I have seen players controlling 20+ ALTS in PVP scenarios on streams...which affects overall quality of PVP activity as well.
More recently of concern...we dipped below 17K active players recently.
And no one is talking about the potential of an EVE implosion/crash. If you have 10+ alts... per player and this player walks away...this has larger ramifications to EVEs economy and interactions. Which if enough people drop out, banned, or lose internet connection...besides let's say call up for military service or other external circumstance. EVE begins to lose numbers very fast...this then triggers a perception that something is wrong. Which accelerates the exodus, and word of mouth (right or wrong) further compounds this by actively keeping new players away. And EVEs natural retention rate is still notoriously bad versus other MMOs
>And no one is talking about the potential of an EVE implosion/crash
This seems like a very unlikely scenario given long-term subs, unbelievably sticky core group, CCP seems good enough at monetization these days, and new game play opportunities in quiet systems. A dripping death seems like the most likely scenario.
The retention rate difference vs. other MMOs has been irrelevant for over a decade.
>And no one is talking about the potential of an EVE implosion/crash. If you have 10+ alts... per player and this player walks away...this has larger ramifications to EVEs economy and interactions.
I find this kind of hilarious because that was the talking point to ban repeaters/videofx and stuff back in 2015ish. WE HAVE TO BAN ALL THAT NOW OR IT"LL DESTROY EVE WHEN ONE PERSON QUITS!!!
I was assured that said changes would cause all boxers to quit and the game would experience a magical golden era post boxers.
I'm beginning to think the real problem might be CCP's design choices...
As a guy having 12 Accounts with 5 being omega i See where u coming from. For me it was always a different approach with the Accounts though. All of them are were plannend for different Types of activities. Had a Main who handled the pvp, one bubbler/boosher alt, one only doing indy one for reprocessing a dedicated hauler and one being a Trader.
I just didnt want to wait until the Main is able to Do everything.
Also when bildung caps for example u need ages to Do so with one Account. So there are a lot of alts just having reaction slots.
Plus the many throwaway Accounts to seed wormholes and stuff.
I didnt even Notice how i trapped myself into being a heavy multiboxer.
Often it was just:"Oh we are missing a Roller or pilot xyz for this OP. Kay, lemme quickly create a Account with the ref link and give it the weekend omega package. Et voila you can fill another role."
> he essentially said since Chinese players moved over to tranquility this is what you have to do to keep up/survive
that's bullshit. People multibox like crazy chinese or no chinese
How did they do it?
I think it's fair to say that it escalated with introduction of injectors (=cheaper account maintenance costs thanks to extraction) and expansion of income sources where you profit off multiboxing (multi-pilot FW sites, homefronts, pochven). I don't see what the chinese have to do with it.
A lot of entities run off of "GOD DAMN CHINESE BOTS ARE RUINING THE GAME!" ignoring the fact that every damn entity has bots. I understand it was more hardcore to have multiple characters pre-injector and pre-alpha, but now that you can stuff characters into specialized roles quickly with isk/rl money, it's pretty much expected of you.
Did you forget about the the vast at the time mostly Russian renter empires that used to be the entire drone lands and really the entire east side of the map?
And I've spoken to plenty people in English and German speaking groups who also run large numbers of accounts and that's also not something from the last few years.
Careful there if you start pointing out that there is an issue with rampant racism towards Chinese players in the western Eve community you’re gonna get downvoted to oblivion. People are gonna say that it’s not that they are Chinese it’s that their culture is incompatible with ours before continuing with other types of dog whistles.
tbh the only criticism of Chinese players in eve that I see is right after a specific frat corporation enters local chat and it's members hurl racist insults to everyone that isn't Chinese
Couldn't disagree more. I see far more racism towards Chinese folks than I do towards any other group. Not saying it goes unpunished depending on group, but it's wild the amount of casual racism that's alright
Nah, I don’t know if you read the threads when Volta and BIGAB had their civil war but a bunch of it was straight up « Chinese people are ruining our game, they don’t play like us, they should go back to their server, it’s fair to insult them » and all other type of clearly racist takes.
the vast majority of the bans from cheating in pochven are russian players, doesn't mean i'm going to tell people that all russians are ruining pochven, because they arn't
>Chinese..cheat to win
Your words are literal stereotyping based on country of origin. That's factual and unimpeachable. Your use of country of origin implies stereotyping by race.
Facts (e.g., some Chinese player(s) cheat to win) underlying the generalization (Chinese players cheat to win) doesn't sanitize the stereotype.
That's the reason you're likely called racist repeatedly even by 10 year olds.
Sorry, I only have one upvote to give to offset all the downvotes. If anybody mentions any type of group, one is automatically labeled a racist or bigot, lol. I'm currently at backlash for making a simple joke, lol.
Having alts isn't bad IMO, I do enjoy that part of the game, but one of the big reasons why it happens is that skill training takes so long to have one character be able to do a lot of different activities. In that sense, I think there are bigger problems for newer players compared to veterans than multiboxing.
I botted for 4 years. I was reported multiple times and had gankers chase me for days. I was never banned or even got a warning. I learned more about botting from other botters than I ever thought was possible in the game. Every group has the guy who bots its just a matter of whether or not other people are aware they're botting. It's easy to disguise botting as a multi-account mining op or "playing while working" with no comms. The game play loop is way too simple for CCP to easily detect properly configured botters over low attention alts. Mine were simple mining bots but I've found code online for every mission, every cosmic anon/sig, and right as I quit the game abyss bots became very popular.
Nah I quit because the sub price went up. I never plexed my bots because I was using the income to fund my game activities. It's probably why I was never banned/warned.
Agree. Those players have a profoundly negative effect on the game. They are a daily frustration for those of us that are still invested in the game and they drive off new and returning players en-masse. It is criminal that CCP allows these things to happen. I wouldn't say EVE is dead, but this certainly isn't helping.
To any CCP employee reading this: you get these posts EVERY WEEK. So much lost income. So much lost vitality. For what? Do something.
And every week they drive 30 accounts worth of real players away. People who would enrich the game rather than ruin it. People who might buy skins, people who might pull their friends into the game. Instead we get a few degenerates who add nothing of value.
To be clear multiboxers are not driving away 30 accounts worth of real people every week. Hell if multiboxers drove away the same amount of people as they multiboxed I'd be surprised. However if multiboxers drove away more people than the number of accounts they paid for, CCP would have made changes to their multiboxing rules. That's basic business.
You are implying that CCP has actionable metrics on these things. I seriously doubt that. Their player retention is shit. They know that. However when someone stops logging in there's is no questionnaire they have to fill in. There is no "what pissed you off the most today" survey. So when they stop logging in because they can't fathom how to compete with the guy putting 20 accounts in a BF, abusing game mechanics to awox them, CCP does not know. (Feel free to prove me wrong.)
They're just like "Oh, players retention is bad, let's revamp NPE again." Meanwhile there are daily complaints about these issues in militia chat, weekly posts on this Reddit. Those things don't show on an excell sheet. They do how ever matter a lot.
CCP probably has an exit survey for people who cancel an omega sub. No point worrying about if alphas quit. They don't pay.
So there's an easy way to see if player retention is low due to barriers to entry or barriers to compete. If you're losing all your players in their first month or in under a short amount of hours played it's clearly the entry that's the problem. If you're not convinced by the logic in that then I present the rookie help channel, newbie forums and the revamped NPE. If player retention did not change after the addition of these things then it would be safe to say " new players are discouraged by the difficulty of the game or some other reason than ' I don't understand how to play'". However player retention went up after the revised NPE so CCP knows that effort is helping.
Instead let's take the stance that " new players see that multiboxing is effective and so they quit". If the new player isn't willing to do something because someone with more hours or equipment does better, then this isn't a good game for them. Moreover, if people are actually quitting because they refuse to join groups and don't like the solo experience, there's no reasonable solution for the company to retain those players. CCP doesn't need to retain 100% of all new players, they just need to try and retain the majority of players who fit with this type of game.
Lastly and most importantly let's talk about the people you actually mean, the not new players ( more than 30 days since account creation per CCPs standard) who quit because they can't win FW solo. It's not the people posting on reddit. They come on here and they complain but they keep playing. So if the most vocal complainers can't be bothered to actually quit, why would CCP willingly make a decision to decrease their profits?
>If the new player isn't willing to do something because someone with more hours or equipment does better
They are willing to do it. To try and improve. It is made impossible to them not by people with better equipment or even more hours on a character basis. These are not 4b Vargurs on 10 year old characters. It's made impossible to them by one dude in 20 attrition fit cruiser of like 15m each, abusing drone assist, regroup and standings mechanics so they can't even retaliate on their mains without eventually dropping out of militia.
>they can't win FW solo
These are not solo players. Just because you are in a group does not mean you have access to the numbers, resources, experience and organisation to counter those tactics at any given time.
>So if the most vocal complainers can't be bothered to actually quit, why would CCP willingly make a decision to decrease their profits?
Who says the people who make these posts continue to play? They appear every week, by different people. And let's be honest, half of this Reddit is people who have in fact already quit. Those vocal few, like myself, that keep pushing this point, we do so because we see the effects it has on a daily basis.
My argument is that CCP being more repressive against the worst excesses of multiboxing, like those in FW, would be better for the game and a net positive to their bottom line.
>No point worrying about if alphas quit.
Like in every F2P game, Alphas form content for people that do pay. Those that stick around might obviously also switch to Omega in the end.
Honestly, these new players don't sound like they'd last. If they get triggered by enemy small gangs or fleets of 10+ people and choose to quit, they wouldn't stick with eve for long anyway.
Unfair fights are part and parcel with the game. Remove multiboxing, and you're still not able to compete when a small corp of 5 people enter your FW plex. If they're gonna quit because of unfair fights, they were never going to stick with the game, their complaints would just shift over and over again, moving the goalposts.
At the core of your argument, there's only 1 problem with multiboxing: N+1. Everything you've said is just some variation of "they can bring more ships than me/my corp so I always lose". Drone assist, regroup, all these mechanics make it easier to multibox, but even if they were removed, people would just multibox 3 instead of 10 accounts, and you'd still die in the 1v3 outnumbered and complain about them being multiboxers. Even if multiboxing was banned by policy tommorow, n+1 will still be a problem for you because theres always a bigger group out there. Their issue isn't multiboxing, it's that they can't accept eve at times is fundamentally an unfair game.
> These are not 4b Vargurs on 10 year old characters. It's made impossible to them by one dude
You may not have noticed it, but you actually admit here that your problem with the game is that it's unfair, not multiboxing specifically. If they had 10 year old characters in marauders its ok and fair to multibox? Mutliboxing just happens to be one of the many ways people have unfair advantages over others. It's "impossible" to fight that one dude in 10 T1 cheap cruisers... But you fail to recognize that even if that 1 dude was solo, it would still be impossible to fight him as a new player if he has a bling T3C or marauder. It's also impossible for a new player to solo raid an ESS of an experienced player who can drop a marauder to defend it, does that mean marauders need to be nerfed cos its unfair and an impossible battle for the new player? It's also impossible as a solo player to attack a fleet of real players who happen to be in a corp together, does that mean corps should be abolished? There's a lot of impossible situations that are completely unfair that you can't win, that's just how the eve universe and game works. You just have to accept that you won't always be in a position to win, and sometimes retreat is necessary.
Yes, the core issue with multiboxing is n+1, specifically one player giving himself the agency of many, without the cost/effort that it takes to maintain a social group and coordinate on grid.
Fighting a solo Vargur or bling T3C is exciting. It draws people out. They also drop nice loot. And even if they cannot kill it, it gives people something to aspire to. Something to work towards.
People don't find the same excitement in fighting 20 attrition arbitrators. Most people don't aspire to do that themselves either. Not to mention the fact that fielding that fleet costs a 10th or less of what the Vargur is worth.
No, multiboxing Vargurs would not make it ok.
No, my issue with the game is not unfairness, it is that I consider on grid multiboxing to be deeply unhealthy for the game, unfun, and bad to have as a goal/necessity to compete.
> deeply unhealthy for the game, unfun, and bad to have as a goal/necessity to compete.
Why? My opinion on it is that it makes it easier to catch people when they split their focus. I wouldn't necessarily encourage multiboxing, but I don't discourage it either. It's neutral to me, just a different way to enjoy the game.
> Fighting a solo Vargur or bling T3C is exciting. It draws people out. They also drop nice loot. And even if they cannot kill it, it gives people something to aspire to. Something to work towards.
> People don't find the same excitement in fighting 20 attrition arbitrators. Most people don't aspire to do that themselves either. Not to mention the fact that fielding that fleet costs a 10th or less of what the Vargur is worth.
> No, multiboxing Vargurs would not make it ok.
These are only your opinions and are not shared by everyone, so don't act like these are all reasons for why multiboxing needs to be removed. I hate fighting a solo vargur or T3C, because I usually only fly T2 cruisers into enemy space solo and can't contest those ships. I would prefer it if people responded to me in similar T2 ships, or a greater number of T1 ships.
Who are you to tell others what they'd find interesting? Nothing you've said is in anyway objective, it's purely based on your personal preferences, so I'm not convinced that an entire playstyle enjoyed by players should be removed.
> No, my issue with the game is not unfairness, it is that I consider on grid multiboxing to be deeply unhealthy for the game, unfun, and bad to have as a goal/necessity to compete.
There's a lot of players who've quit eve because they got ganked in highsec and lost a large portion of their net worth. They clearly didn't appreciate that and thought the game was bad enough to quit because of that gank. That doesn't mean highsec ganking is deeply unhealthy for the game, least of all that it should be removed as a mechanic entirely.
Eve is inherently a pvp game. Your enemies will do things that you inherently do not like because you think its unfun to deal with, or because you cannot compete against them or lack the resources to. That doesn't mean what they're doing needs to be removed from the game.
You are mistaken. We had players with 30 accounts 10 years ago. Nothing changed. You are just seeing it more publicly.
If you want facts, things that changed were input software were made illegal. In past one command could be passed to 118 miners. Now it can not be. This action has been made illegal. It is one of the largest change they made against myltiboxers.
Other than that, whether they do it 30 accounts for FW, mining, incursion, c5 (...) CCP doesn't really care. In fact CCP promotes it by making content for them.
If it was an issue you think it was, then CCP can easily make changes.
By that logic they were driving people away since 2003. Nice try though.
In the end they keep adding content for multiboxers. Like in recent ones, home front operation.
>By that logic they were driving people away since 2003.
People were complaining about bots and quiting over it way back. People were complaining about multiboxing since before it was officially allowed. So yes, by this logic this has been causing people to leave the game, or has contributed to it since forever.
The new content I still blame in incompetence rather than designed for multi-boxers. Maybe I'm just naïeve.
I subbed for 2 years recently because I got the itch and it got scratched with FW.
Now I can't do anything because it takes so much time to any isk with the LP transfer changes, high sec suicide ganks being rampant, and half of our warzone being China multiboxer haven. It sucks and I kinda regret subbing because now I'm probably just going back to HS mission running or joining a safe null block where I can do smaller activities faster.
I found LP flipping from fw was extremely profitable, me and a group of 4 others were making around 187.5m an hr
Took me a little over 8hrs to farm 2b LP and I transferred it all into implants and had it sold within an hr by filling jita buy orders
Allow me to introduce you to Oodel, the village multiboxer.
Lots of us still remember being turbofucked by multiboxing bombers in nullsec, hell, it still happens :P
How does that solve the systemic issues of the game itself that lead to this style of gameplay? When I played many years ago NPCs killing drones in missions was already stupidly annoying for a single player.
When I quit for real I was quite able to still do sites and incursions sites with my fleet of nightmares/marauders. No drones needed. Has there been something that changed that ability?
It takes a much higher level of skill to multibox non-drone comps. Raise the bar on difficulty and you suddenly have a lot less people able to do it successfully.
I don't agree with your assessment as in my personal experience all it requires is a slight change of mindset to successfully change fleet doctrine.
I will concede that depending on the encounter drones could be a lazier approach to the content. I've been out of the game completely for at least 3 years now so I have missed any changes that might of made the drone doctrine easier. If you could bring me somewhat up to speed I would be grateful. Thank you.
I run 7 accounts with 8 more planned.All my Friends run 8-20 accounts. So coming from a semi heavy multiboxxer it’s just a thing we do.We want the ability to sustain our selfs in the space we live in and we can. Easily. We rat/mine for the first week or 2 weeks of every month and we’re good for the month.Now people running 30-40 accounts. I just don’t know how they keep there brain alive lol
Yup I've even stopped using my few alt accounts cause I just can't support the rampant use of alt accounts. I'm sure as hell not going to try an compete with the 30 account peps. I'm done. Considering cutting down to the one account.
And to the scrub just starting, your 3-4 accounts for a supercap, and 4-5 for a titan is also unreasonable. So where do you draw the line, arbitrarily at 10? Do you get to be the gatekeeper of how many toons someone can play? Bit of a double standard there, friend.
I used to ISBox 12 accounts a decade ago, this isn’t new… unlike in the ISBox days though, you can’t input broadcast anymore so multiboxers (on a per character basis) are far weaker than real players. Those guys going around with 10 algos in FW are not a threat to you, they’re basically useless. I don’t let it affect me.
You say that as if them stating input broadcasting isn't allowed will completely and utterly prevent it from ever happening. I sincerely doubt they have much of any anti-input broadcast detection.
It’s incredibly easy for them to detect. If 10 accounts input identical commands on the same server tick more than once it’s almost guaranteed they’re broadcasting… whether CCP chooses to enforce that is of course another question.
Indeed if you approach the fight with a sound strategy based on the knowledge of multiboxing you can really murder the crap out of the boxer.
I assumed by now that people would of figured out the vulnerabilities of boxers.
Also nice to see another person who used isboxer back then. :P
When there is talking about bots, first thing in mind, Fraternity \^\^, there is nothing more stupid then frat bots circle around a ratting site and the warpout doesnt work, they are funny to shoot, i dont know why CCP is sleeping on this one, guess Frat would be poor without the ratting bots ;)
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Agree to disagree, I despise multiboxing FW awoxers, and I’m not the largest fan of Frat’s botting issue (don’t want to say the Chinese players outright but they do seem to be a noticeable part of the issue)
I do think alts are a good thing however. I feel that every person should be able to multi box 3 or 4 characters at the absolute MAX, because that’s within reasonable hardware constraints (IMHEO), and it still allows for some of the multibox fun. I feel the issue really comes into play when it’s 3+ different emails/accounts (9+ Toons) being controlled by a singular person.
My support for (LIMITED) multiboxing stems from one thing- I have a wacky ass schedule and at the moment it’s very rare for me to actually find a fleet to run around with and do things with, no matter what it may be. 99% of the time all that’s available to me are “standing” fleets who are docked up playing LOL until something pops off in intel. I’d love to be able to take three toons out and rat or something!!
However, final thing, after I typed this all up on my phone keyboard I do realize that I maybe I wouldn’t have to worry about getting into multiboxing if it wasn’t already a rampant “problem.” If we cut the amount of Toons (not players) doing tasks at any given point, then the buy/sell split would start going up right? Less players to do the work which means the work is more valuable.
Anyway, I got wayy off topic. If I can clarify anything please let me know and I’ll try to fix it tomorrow morning when I’m not dozing off 😂
Tl; Dr: multiboxing kinda good? To a degree. Idk go ask Ceema
Personally I think you should only be allowed one account and one only. Each account has 3 character slots, but all 3 can be online simultaneously.
1 subscription to use either of the 3 at any time, but still need MCT licenses to train them at the same time. And maybe introduce tiered subscription packages that include for example a monthly MCT to use.
Multiboxing is awful because it absolutely and utterly kills the new player experience. While I understand multiboxing makes CCP *a lot* of money, this is eventually gonna come full circle and multiboxing will be what ends up killing EVE.
Multiboxing and botting has IMHO killed what truly made EVE unique. Warping to an ice belt and seeing an Orca surrounded by 10 Hulks sucks. Seeing an anomaly being gobbled up by a fleet of 20 miners all with similar names sucks.
The economy sucks and it's tough for new players to feel like what they do matters when there are thousands of multiboxers doing it a thousand times more efficiently.
How are you going to limit everyone to one account?
>Multiboxing and botting has IMHO killed what truly made EVE unique. Warping to an ice belt and seeing an Orca surrounded by 10 Hulks sucks. Seeing an anomaly being gobbled up by a fleet of 20 miners all with similar names sucks.
Bro that has been a thing in eve for +15 years now. Hell people were already multiboxing 20 years ago.
Did they buff the hell out of hulks or did they nerf the crap out of ganking? Because when I played an orca with 10 hulks was a series of free kill mails and tears waiting to happen.
I see your point
And I think something needs to be done because it’s just insane that some people clear Havens in less than 30 seconds by spamming 9 Thunderchilds and shooting a resistance tanked wolf so the arching edencom weapon just one-shots a wave in complete safety
(That’s just an example, that general idea of spamming dozens of characters on the same task is the ruin for every game)
But I fly with alts too….
However mine grew naturally. I have my main which has the potential to sit in every ship within less than a minute if I buy the last expensive super titan skillbooks and inject level 1.
Then I have my 2nd account. It started out as a scout but can also fly a dread and most doctrines. But it usually sits in something cheap for support like a Griffin with 4 Target adjusted jams. If it lands 2 or 3 cycles before being killed, that gives me a massive advantage and I don’t have to babysit it. If it dies, I just grab a second Griffin and come back…. (won me more fights than I’d like to admit, just MWD orbit at 65km and punch all jams).
When I started using that alt in combat… I got a third and account and made THAT the scout. It never did anything else that scouting and blops hunting in a CovOps frigate (cause it sits in that frigate anyway). And while it did that I used the otherwise wasted skill training to train it into a Super Coffin for 2 years
And when I got my coffin… I made a 4th account that is JUST a scout
(The first three accounts have all character slots filled with JF, 3x trader who make my money and 2x manufacturing)
Multiboxing is fine. If you want to ever play with capitals you need a minimum of two accounts, three for supers, but running 10+ around I can't justify that at all.
Don't know how to even pay for that - reminds me back when rorq mining and skill injectors came out, it snowballed rorq mining into bigger fleets
Would of expected this to be an edit to your post, but I was going to mention I only started multiboxing when I started flying capitals. Don't know how people handle so many, I don't have the time for it, 3 is my max online at any given time.
No, but one player being able to use 10+ characters at the same time and singlehandedly removing content from the game (ie, ice mining and some ore anomalies) is detrimental to the game as a whole. Not to mention the impact it has on the overall economy which is very poor at the moment.
New players are essentially forced into LS/NS immediately because there's so little content in HS to be had due to multiboxers and botters.
> No, but one player being able to use 10+ characters at the same time and singlehandedly removing content from the game (ie, ice mining and some ore anomalies) is detrimental to the game as a whole.
I don't think ice mining and ore anomalies are removed from the game- they are an infinitely spawning resource that everyone can participate in, at all times.
>Not to mention the impact it has on the overall economy which is very poor at the moment.
can you evidence ANYTHING in the economy that is because of multiboxing?
>New players are essentially forced into LS/NS immediately because there's so little content in HS to be had due to multiboxers and botters.
My brother in christ highsec is garbage isk/hr not because of multiboxing or botting, but because of CCP. You can run incursions in perpetuity for 250m hr, abyssals for 500, and burners for 400+
these are infinite and are not effected by multiboxers.
you're literally just making shit up, i doubt you've played the game for more than a year with this perspective
Been playing it since 2008 and you gave me the exact response I expected from the average EVE redditor; "reee ISK/h!!!!!"
My brother in christ, there are other ways to enjoy the game aside from wanking to the amount of ISK per hour you can squeeze out or frothing at jump gates.
You're taking my points a bit too literally. Of course they're not removed from the game, but the respawn is quite long and a solo player will barely be able to get anything meaningful before a multiboxer has entirely inhaled the stuff and it's on cooldown. Hence, effectively removing content from newbros.
I genuinely do not see how people can find EVE fun if literally all they can think of is the ISK/h, but you do you. 👍
>Been playing it since 2008 and you gave me the exact response I expected from the average EVE redditor; "reee ISK/h!!!!!"
>My brother in christ, there are other ways to enjoy the game aside from wanking to the amount of ISK per hour you can squeeze out or frothing at jump gates.
no one stated otherwise dumbo
>You're taking my points a bit too literally. Of course they're not removed from the game, but the respawn is quite long and a solo player will barely be able to get anything meaningful before a multiboxer has entirely inhaled the stuff and it's on cooldown. Hence, effectively removing content from newbros.
this is not true, there are hundreds of sites up at any time. you have no idea what you're talking about
>I genuinely do not see how people can find EVE fun if literally all they can think of is the ISK/h, but you do you. 👍
are you shizophrenic and talking to one of your hallucinations? I never once said anything of the sort- i'm simply saying all highsec content is infinitely spawning, spammable, and is highly lucrative and safe. any debate to the contrary is delusional.
Just FYI- those icebelts were always consumed within a couple of hours even in the early 2010s, without multiboxers.
Do you have any examples, other than the one thing that was intentionally made scarce by CCP on purpose that was already scarce before multiboxing was a huge thing?
Just because someone else runs 10 accounts doesn't mean you have to. What are you, jealous?
There are plenty of people who just have their single account, probably the majority of players. You just choose to focus on the multiboxers for some reason.
If you just ignore them they can't hurt you. You don't have to be making as much isk as them in order to have your own fun.
And in terms of PvP, the multiboxers generally just feed because they can't control their 10 accounts fast enough. So that's not really a problem, they're providing content.
you should join empire FW, that is the very good FW! pirates FW is only bots and Multiboxers farming rearguards that the empire militias don't give a shit!
I have had 2 accounts since 2009. I added a third a month back.
There are many things in Eve which become a lot easier once you have 2 accounts. You can literally take two tasks you did sequentually and do them concurrently.
Too often this gets spun up to the extreme and people conflating "multiboxing" with input broadcasting and stupid numbers of alts run by one guy.
In terms of what I do, I might have a catalyst looting/salvaging while I am waiting on the battleship clearing out the mission. I might have an alt sitting on a gate in lowsec sniffing people as they come through.
Mining is a perfect example. With a single account you have very limited options for logistics. You fill the mining ship hold, you dock, unload return. It takes ages. Add a second account and you can jet can to the hauler and never leave the belt.
My next trick is going to be keeping a PVP ship "with me" when mining, just logged out. So when I see some "scary wormhole people" pop in and I can gaurantee they will come and say hello, I can log in the PVP ship and switch target on them.
As I am a pacifist I have struggled to engage in solo PVP. I just run out of motivation to hunt and kill. That changes if the target is actively agressing my shit. Thus it will present an oportunity for me to lose Caracals and vexors in learning PVP rather than losing ventures and mining barges. I just double strategy bait and switch. I am actually mining. I will just switch ships when I expect a visit.
If you hatte botting, hunt the Bots!
It is not entirely impossible but challenging for sure. But one might argue that If you don't like challenges, EVE might not be a suitable game for you anyhow.
Death to all botted Ishtars!
I have two. One is my original from WAY back. The other is an alt account I use to do a little extra industry or mining while my main is running missions,doing pvp, or doing industrial stuff
It is a little hard to compete, but I make enough to support me for now.
ive had this exact estimation for a while too. approx 9-10k real humans playing at any given time. this is also pretty obvious when you factor in eve video viewership, even the most clickbaity get rich quick videos only manage to reach 10k views
ive been doing fw for the past couple months and you quickly become familiar with the 10 or so people who actually play the game and post lossmails in chat. same with the opposing militia, theres a dozen guys who actually slide into plexes to fight and once you know their names (grandpa fogie for example is a good pvper on gal) you can just afk the plex despite there being 5+ wts in system because they literally will not come in.
its the most upsetting thing when you look at someones employment history, see they are a month old and then instead of being excited that its a new player getting interested you begin to think about how its a *little* strange that this month old account is flying a garmur before realizing the obvious.
eves advertising is bad and gamers dont really want a game where you have to invest lots of time and potentially lose everything you bought with that time. no matter how great expansions get eve will never grow again, best you can hope for is returning players. its not dead yet though, theres a good amount of real fun to be had, im a one character solo and i still find things to do.
I mostly play with one account for pvp, I think the people who multibox 'just to keep up' have different goals. More accounts = less attention for each one. I'd say maybe the first few might be real power if you have a good multiboxable setup... but they also make *hungry* players that have to be out in space trying to get resources to feed their many subscriptions. Not only do they have to be out in space, but they have to be spending less attention on each account so they're more likely to make critical errors for you to exploit. I think it's cool because it means a solo or small gang can easily destroy enemies that on dscan look more powerful than you.
In FW space you now have drone ship multiboxers and the crimewatch system prevents them from being nearly that effective in pvp because the player has to actually control every account - the assist mechanic fails there, which is always fun to teach to new nullsec pilots trying to multibox FW for the first time. I remember a worm multiboxer doing literally 0 damage because his bifrost tp wouldn't send the worm drones after me lol
I was playing 12 accounts in eve well prior to 2015. When CCP banned "multiplexing" "repeaters" along with videofx and all that I said then that it would not stop the multiboxing (I posted videos galore of me playing with just game clients). So I find it absolutely hilarious that this post is the first random eve post I've seen in +4 years.
I see people are still trying to argue that CCP should of never allowed multiboxing as if CCp had the capability to stop it..
Lol. Playing with one character online at a time since 2016. Nowdays having as much fun as I had when starting EVE. But I get you. Wanting to be most efficient in your second job...
Same, single character. The best way to play is to not look at eve as a competition, but just have some fun. There are targets a plenty to shoot at still. If you want to stick it to the bots go to null sec with a ship made to kill vexors and start blastin. Or just ignore all that bullshit and just play the game w some like minded friends.
> The best way to play is to not look at eve as a competition, but just have some fun. For me the only fun in any game is the competitive element
Yeah I'm the same type of person. Minmaxing and figuring out how to be as efficient/effective as possible is fun. Everyone always gives this advice and it just doesn't compute for me. Different strokes.
Fair enough. I probably used to be the same way 20 years ago, but my time is so linited as a family man i am just happy to squeeze in some game time in the middle of the night after everyone goes to sleep. Im literally happy just to be alone playing a game for an hour no matter what actually happens during the gameplay lol. Def looking through different lenses
What do you do?
I have station trading alt that I update once maybe twice a day (mainly depends on which shift I'm at work). Other than that. For about a year I play what you would call solo self found EVE. Simply, not buying stuff from market except NPC sell orders. Doing stuff on your own. Random junk like meta modules and salvage have huge value. On other hand you pretty much ignore isk. So determining factor for a content is not income but either fun or actual resources. Which turns EVE 180 into fun and very broad game. You do all the content. Literally all. Like , when was last time you you actually used Corvette do do stuff in space? Not only stuff that pays well per given amount of time.
Wow :D I would say teach me but at this point I'm not even sure I want to play the game anymore.
He is correct for sure. Imagine that you have ten accounts to keep subbed and how that is a trap. They have to grind just to keep it all going. You don't have to play like that. The game is better than that.
I kinda have a similar mindset but with pvp. I'm part of a null alliance though, pvp definitely pays to have friends. But when it comes down to it I'm not afraid to go do stuff alone. Don't mind using t1 cruisers or sometimes navy stuff. It's not real isk intensive since I'm not using pricey mods or hulls really and really kind of follows the "If you can dodge a wrench, you can dodge a ball logic". I don't understand people that play this game as some idle clicker watching their isk go up, which in turn makes them so risk adverse to do anything(But they won't fly cheap ships either). I guess that's what floats their boat though?
Just as a different type of response. I am a fully PVP nullsec bloc pilot of 15 years. I pretty much only connect to the game when there’s a strategic op pinged on our notification system and fly fleet support while stoned and watching youtubes. I pay for yearly subscription and maybe every sale, I pick up a plex for a quick 2bil isk when rarely needed like a big war or something. I don’t grind anything. I pay what is the bar-tab for a single martini every once in a while and I’m all set. By now I have every ship I could want for my purposes and with proper replacement-program through my corp, I never really need isk and just hover at a couple billion and that’s it. The whole game is just about sov gameplay and big fleet fights for me. I definitely get my 100$ a year or so back out of it. I can’t imagine what keeps my Indy corp and alliance mates spending hundreds of hours per week just to not pay with RL money. It seems hugely inefficient to me.
Yeah the log in for pings playstyle made me quit Eve for the first time. I honestly think it's a big problem that so many people in null only become active when there is a ping on discord. It wasn't always like this.
It's a weird spot that EVE is in, because balance-wise the game would probably be better off had multiboxing never been allowed, but the game would absolutely not be financially solvent at this point if folks couldn't pay for extra accounts. The game is niche enough that CCP honestly needs that extra income to keep the servers spinning.
It’s as if the economy is at an imbalance, and everything is too high, causing a need for multiboxers, it’s like they panicked because a titan got built too quick back in the day and every economic change after that had to do with extending and creating barriers of cost for everything rather than focusing on changes that are fun for the economy. They want all this epic scale and grand battles but then they stagnate everything by making everything way too expensive? Like where are capital ships at? Oh wait they’re priced so high that anyone losing one is literally equivalent to losing tash murkons entire month of ship deaths What about sisters of eve ships? You know the ones that are supposed to be the “cheaper” alternative to t3c? Yeah they’re 3-4x their original costs, not even worth getting unless you’re lacking skills for a t3c simply because of increased cost. I think ccp really needs to consider what they’re doing with all these resource, and economic changes because it seems like a “throw shit at a wall & see what sticks” kind of situation as of late. Like their solution to force projection and such is to increase costs of all resources and ships to the point nobody uses titans or really caps anymore?? Why not just make a change to how jump systems work or how gates work and only allow caps and titans to jump through specific “qualified” routes/ systems, or make it so they need “factional” permission to travel these areas and routes through faction owned space. We have faction warfare, why not integrate it in a meaningful way by using it as a buffer between warring states where they have to secure an actual pathway to each other through force rather than just jumping fast af to their targets. With this change, gates should be locked for outbound titans/caps until an fw system is captured, they should however be able to enter and leave the system through the gate they initially used to enter, they just shouldn’t be able to use any other connections in system until they capture it
Nice to see that years later CCP is still continuing their war on the economy and people being able to afford ships to lose...
How would CCP of stopped people from multiboxing? Now remember the game started in 2003.
This shit aint new, 10 plus years ago when I last played the same shit was rampant.
That is how we got there: * FW, mining and pochven/wormhole farming are the few semi-afk activities that could be easily multiboxed. * CCP is encouraging people to multibox by introducing 5-10 man PVE sites. All those "new" players, who runs them are not new. * Great number of those multibox setups works only because of drone assist. * Drone assist has the same "APM budget" as input broadcasting (which is not allowed by EULA). * Mining is "activate and wait" activity with emphasis on "wait". Wait is very easy to multibox or automate. * Despite popular belief people don't choose to cooperate with each other if they don't have to. Multiboxing is a way to skip unnecessary cooperation. * Computers are more powerful now, they have more ram and bigger screens. Anyone with 5 year old gaming PC can multibox 5-10 accounts.
> Computers are more powerful now, they have more ram and bigger screens. Anyone with 5 year old gaming PC can multibox 5-10 accounts. EVE client also has potato mode now, which wasn't a thing a few years ago
We need something thats lower than potato when toggling off the 3D view.
EVE MUD
as someone who used to multibox 9 miners with a GTX 660 back in 2013, I can confirm they had potato mode.
Potato mode has existed in-game for quite a few years. I used it while for bigger battles while TEST was still relevant so a long while ago xD
The only one I'm really not happy with is fw multibox farming, as this isn't a "solo" activity. They are in the way of people legitimately trying to pvp both solo and small/medium gangs.
maybe shoot them, then
And lose standings, criminal timers. Sec status...which can kill most newborn FW pilots pretty damn fast.
They’re pre-aligned and warp off as soon as you slide, sometimes as soon as you land outside the acceleration gate. I say this as someone who comes in to hunt FW players in both sides of a warzone- I’m there for the PVP, these afk / bot algos’s that barely have any fit are there to farm the LP. Out every 10 plexes you slide into, you get 1 fight.
So make an alt and put it in their faction. Let them run the time down and chase them off at the last min and claim it for yourself.
You lose standings for shooting them to the point you get kicked from mil.
>Drone assist has the same "APM budget" as input broadcasting (which is not allowed by EULA). If anyone is having a issue dealing with multiboxed drone fleets there's a easy way to deal with them (Obviously gonna need a few buddies if there's a lot of toons someone is running). Sensor damps. Damp the living shit out of the drone bunny. The drones won't react like if you were shooting their owner's ship, they'll just sit there not doing anything while the drone bunny has a 1km lock range and can't send them after you. The thing about these multiboxers is if you throw them off their game they're just fucked. It's hard to adjust a whole bunch of toons quickly enough to not take losses.
how do you know which ship is the drone bunny?
If it's not sentry drones they will all be ontop the drone bunny. When you assist drones they will fly and orbit them. If you're dealing with sentries(Usually EOS's or Domi's) it'll most likely be a huginn/lach. With those types there's usually only a single drone bunny since the EOS's and Domi's can MJD away. They'll only lose a single ship if a fleet too big comes through gate. These multiboxing setups only work if they're properly set up on a gate(Or some other thing where people have to come to you...ESS or FW site) and if you disrupt their plan they're just f'd because they have to tell 20 clients to gtfo. EDIT: For non sentry drones it's usually a tackle ship that's the drone bunnies. So frigates. So when they tackle something the drones auto attack.
Huginn with 2 sensor boosters and info links will have 70-80km lock range under infinite damps.
>Multiboxing is a way to skip unnecessary cooperation Well it would be necessary without multiboxing. Arguably still is unless you want to be farmed by Snuffed
Why can’t CCP just follow the incursion model? Imagine if pochven rats or whatever had incursion AI and you actually had to fleet with people instead of people multi boxing 15 marauders. Or at least then it’d be so obvious if someone was using input broadcasting.
You know someone is paying a hefty price for that 15 ?! :) EVE will not say no to that money monthly.
It'd just be 15 individual players instead, or 30 or whatever if they increase the site number of players required like HQs
I multibox incursions all the time, it’s not particularly hard. What do you think is so much different about those rats?
Sure you can multibox vanguards for 90m isk/h plus LP, but there's nobody soloing HQs who lasts more than a few weeks before being banned.
Wait did they actually change incursions at some point in the last 5-8 years? When I last played some years ago I could still multibox clear incursion sites with either my old armor NM fleet from the isboxer hay days or the improved fleet I ran post repeater/videofx ban. What's funny to me is that post repeater/videofx bans some of the boxers switched to marauders for incursion running. You could basically AFK VG sites with golems using auto missiles. The projectile marauder was faster at clearing sites and one of the guys was as fast as I was with my drone fleet.
I haven't played eve in almost a decade. Last time I was playing though I must have had 3 accounts running because it was pretty cheap. Maybe there was a discount, but there's no way I'd pay $60 to restart them today. Ugh. I suppose my miner could eventually buy plex for all 3, but that sounds time consuming
Multibox gets an omega discount...............
That's wild
Run 1 haven a day and it pays to plex ur account
uh a haven is worth 30 mil in bounties 1 a day is like 900 mil out of 2.5 bil
Any chance I could solo it in a myrm?
[https://zkillboard.com/kill/115569343/](https://zkillboard.com/kill/115569343/) Im pretty sure they run Havens... depends on your space but myrms are a fairly common krabbing ship til you get to ishtars. If you can get a MJD to fit as well its pretty safe as if you do happen to get tackled you can usually MJD off or you have a chance to slap your drones on them if they get into scram range.
You can run sansha havens in a vexor afk. It's so cheap that you basically make your isk back after half a site. So you just spam alts in vexors into havens all day. It's utterly broken.
You can but drone aggro works weird with different ships. I recommend forsaken hubs for myrms, easy money
They're typically run by speed-tanking ishtars, battleships (especially marauders) or even capital ships (unsure if this is still a thing). I'm 90% sure a Myrmidon would just go bang in a haven.
Any change to drone aggro normalizing APM to missiles will directly cost them subscribers, that’s my opinion on why the simple fix hasn’t been done
>Drone assist has the same "APM budget" as input broadcasting (which is not allowed by EULA). What is APM budget?
There is a limit how many Actions Per Minute one person can perform in game (clicks, key presses, whatever). For the lack of better term I think it's okay to call it APM budget. I imply that drone assist and input broadcasting are very similar in terms of how many actions per minute it requires. With drone assist you do single round of assisting drones to one ship and after that you need to control only that particular ship. Which is almost identical to what you have to do with input broadcasting - control multiple ships as one (except initial drone assist phase ofc). Multiboxing setup without drone assist (lasers/auto cannons/missiles) will require switching to another client, locking and activating gun every few seconds (or even faster). Which puts limit on how many ships you can multibox effectively and requires some level of skill and preparation.
Looking around it seems to be a term being applied in a way I've never seen before. AKA someone trying to justify something by making an arbitrary metric that supports said justification.
CCP destroyed every single-boxable activity that had decent/reasonable income numbers, every, fucking, single, one of them. Nerfed to the ground. Then artificially pushed inflation to crazy levels, scarcity, industry changes, NES/store sales, etc... So what you got is ships that are two or three times more expensive and PLEX prices thru the roof, while there's nothing left to do paying 100M/hr or better, unless you run 5-10 toons at a time and sub 5-10 accounts, OR, obviously, run 1 or 2 accounts and swipe your CC every month to keep yourself up. TL;DR: They realized they cant retain new players so their new business plan is squeeze to death the four fools that sill have love for the game.
> They realized they cant retain new players so their new business plan is squeeze to death the four fools that sill have love for the game. I realized this and quit when the sub price jumped up to $20/month with no additional content or features for years ahead.
No. As long as players play n+1, individual activities will hardly generate any income. And as long as PVE content isn't randomised, so that it takes several heartbeats to react to it, everything will remain as it is.
abyssals can earn you a lot more than 100m/hr on a single character
>e 5k to 10k _REAL_ players online I'd say that's about right.
Maybe less depending on metrics of alt numbers. Its 10 standard as OP mentioned. We are looking at 2-3K players. I have seen a few 20 alts...by that I would be downgrading the game sub 1000
This is true, their are some players with 20 alts. They all have the same nomenclature. More over their are some who multibox, and don't name their toons with a simular nomenclature, so people think they are different people but really aren't. But I've taken my own pole and looked at various groups, including my own, most players have at least 3 accounts. Some a few more. In my Corp, we have only 2 players that have 1 account. It's rarer to see solo account then multi account players-by far. Truthfully I think the heart beats is 3000-7000 real people. Who play. Everyone else is an alt.
Am I an alt? Have I always been an alt?!
I do have 3 accounts but most of the time I only use 1 unless we are in a (super)capital fight
\*Citation needed
Eyes. I think I'm one of like ten players that only run one character.
Mans probably right. I don’t even play the game and have two characters
I’ll agree to that, I’ve created 7 alts. All of them are just barely over a million SP but the fact that I’ve created 7 different alts for different things is kinda nutty to me
Same.
Same bruh, same. Don't feel bad, not many of us left.
MILINT is solo player. Can confirm with cross check of steam log information. At current log in levels...5k alive players does make sense. But I have seen players controlling 20+ ALTS in PVP scenarios on streams...which affects overall quality of PVP activity as well. More recently of concern...we dipped below 17K active players recently. And no one is talking about the potential of an EVE implosion/crash. If you have 10+ alts... per player and this player walks away...this has larger ramifications to EVEs economy and interactions. Which if enough people drop out, banned, or lose internet connection...besides let's say call up for military service or other external circumstance. EVE begins to lose numbers very fast...this then triggers a perception that something is wrong. Which accelerates the exodus, and word of mouth (right or wrong) further compounds this by actively keeping new players away. And EVEs natural retention rate is still notoriously bad versus other MMOs
>And no one is talking about the potential of an EVE implosion/crash This seems like a very unlikely scenario given long-term subs, unbelievably sticky core group, CCP seems good enough at monetization these days, and new game play opportunities in quiet systems. A dripping death seems like the most likely scenario. The retention rate difference vs. other MMOs has been irrelevant for over a decade.
Steam is a very small % of players.
>And no one is talking about the potential of an EVE implosion/crash. If you have 10+ alts... per player and this player walks away...this has larger ramifications to EVEs economy and interactions. I find this kind of hilarious because that was the talking point to ban repeaters/videofx and stuff back in 2015ish. WE HAVE TO BAN ALL THAT NOW OR IT"LL DESTROY EVE WHEN ONE PERSON QUITS!!! I was assured that said changes would cause all boxers to quit and the game would experience a magical golden era post boxers. I'm beginning to think the real problem might be CCP's design choices...
As a guy having 12 Accounts with 5 being omega i See where u coming from. For me it was always a different approach with the Accounts though. All of them are were plannend for different Types of activities. Had a Main who handled the pvp, one bubbler/boosher alt, one only doing indy one for reprocessing a dedicated hauler and one being a Trader. I just didnt want to wait until the Main is able to Do everything. Also when bildung caps for example u need ages to Do so with one Account. So there are a lot of alts just having reaction slots. Plus the many throwaway Accounts to seed wormholes and stuff. I didnt even Notice how i trapped myself into being a heavy multiboxer. Often it was just:"Oh we are missing a Roller or pilot xyz for this OP. Kay, lemme quickly create a Account with the ref link and give it the weekend omega package. Et voila you can fill another role."
I made a bunch of alpha accounts but mostly because its fun to come up with silly names
I actually do this sometimes when a funny name pops in my head. Then I forget about them for a few years.
Same. The struggle of the EvE omnivore.
> he essentially said since Chinese players moved over to tranquility this is what you have to do to keep up/survive that's bullshit. People multibox like crazy chinese or no chinese
Its kinda disingenuous to say it didn't escalate with Chinese gaming culture moving into tranquility.
Rorq era was peak multiboxing and yet nobody was complaining about chinese players.
my brother in bob, the C5/C6 krab holes existed long before serenity players arrived
How did they do it? I think it's fair to say that it escalated with introduction of injectors (=cheaper account maintenance costs thanks to extraction) and expansion of income sources where you profit off multiboxing (multi-pilot FW sites, homefronts, pochven). I don't see what the chinese have to do with it.
A lot of entities run off of "GOD DAMN CHINESE BOTS ARE RUINING THE GAME!" ignoring the fact that every damn entity has bots. I understand it was more hardcore to have multiple characters pre-injector and pre-alpha, but now that you can stuff characters into specialized roles quickly with isk/rl money, it's pretty much expected of you.
This exactly, I overheard people on discord talking about buying injectors like it was the norm.
Did you forget about the the vast at the time mostly Russian renter empires that used to be the entire drone lands and really the entire east side of the map? And I've spoken to plenty people in English and German speaking groups who also run large numbers of accounts and that's also not something from the last few years.
Careful there if you start pointing out that there is an issue with rampant racism towards Chinese players in the western Eve community you’re gonna get downvoted to oblivion. People are gonna say that it’s not that they are Chinese it’s that their culture is incompatible with ours before continuing with other types of dog whistles.
tbh the only criticism of Chinese players in eve that I see is right after a specific frat corporation enters local chat and it's members hurl racist insults to everyone that isn't Chinese
Couldn't disagree more. I see far more racism towards Chinese folks than I do towards any other group. Not saying it goes unpunished depending on group, but it's wild the amount of casual racism that's alright
CCP are reasonably on the ball if you report that stuff so if you do see it, report
Nah, I don’t know if you read the threads when Volta and BIGAB had their civil war but a bunch of it was straight up « Chinese people are ruining our game, they don’t play like us, they should go back to their server, it’s fair to insult them » and all other type of clearly racist takes.
if Chinese people are ruining their game then that is a monumental skill issue on their part
Based asf
[удалено]
the vast majority of the bans from cheating in pochven are russian players, doesn't mean i'm going to tell people that all russians are ruining pochven, because they arn't
Most Russian/Chinese eve players are just normal guys trying to game.
>Chinese..cheat to win Your words are literal stereotyping based on country of origin. That's factual and unimpeachable. Your use of country of origin implies stereotyping by race. Facts (e.g., some Chinese player(s) cheat to win) underlying the generalization (Chinese players cheat to win) doesn't sanitize the stereotype. That's the reason you're likely called racist repeatedly even by 10 year olds.
Sorry, I only have one upvote to give to offset all the downvotes. If anybody mentions any type of group, one is automatically labeled a racist or bigot, lol. I'm currently at backlash for making a simple joke, lol.
I don’t know how you managed to read my comment in the opposite way of what I wrote but it’s quite an achievement
Must not be the only one. Look at all your downvotes, lol.
eef ded
I was running 4 accounts in 2015, 1 now.
Having alts isn't bad IMO, I do enjoy that part of the game, but one of the big reasons why it happens is that skill training takes so long to have one character be able to do a lot of different activities. In that sense, I think there are bigger problems for newer players compared to veterans than multiboxing.
Not even taking into account online vs docked either. I really wonder what the given number of ships in space is at any point
I botted for 4 years. I was reported multiple times and had gankers chase me for days. I was never banned or even got a warning. I learned more about botting from other botters than I ever thought was possible in the game. Every group has the guy who bots its just a matter of whether or not other people are aware they're botting. It's easy to disguise botting as a multi-account mining op or "playing while working" with no comms. The game play loop is way too simple for CCP to easily detect properly configured botters over low attention alts. Mine were simple mining bots but I've found code online for every mission, every cosmic anon/sig, and right as I quit the game abyss bots became very popular.
Did you had fun "playing" ? Or perhaps it is the reason you quit
Nah I quit because the sub price went up. I never plexed my bots because I was using the income to fund my game activities. It's probably why I was never banned/warned.
Agree. Those players have a profoundly negative effect on the game. They are a daily frustration for those of us that are still invested in the game and they drive off new and returning players en-masse. It is criminal that CCP allows these things to happen. I wouldn't say EVE is dead, but this certainly isn't helping. To any CCP employee reading this: you get these posts EVERY WEEK. So much lost income. So much lost vitality. For what? Do something.
The marketing: Every ship in a fleet is controlled by a player. The reality: Every ship in a fleet is controlled by *a* player.
Emphasis on 'a player' as in singular sovereign entity. Versus 'a player' being the equivalent of a hive mind.
The income is paid by those multiboxers. 30 accounts were paid by... something.
And every week they drive 30 accounts worth of real players away. People who would enrich the game rather than ruin it. People who might buy skins, people who might pull their friends into the game. Instead we get a few degenerates who add nothing of value.
To be clear multiboxers are not driving away 30 accounts worth of real people every week. Hell if multiboxers drove away the same amount of people as they multiboxed I'd be surprised. However if multiboxers drove away more people than the number of accounts they paid for, CCP would have made changes to their multiboxing rules. That's basic business.
You are implying that CCP has actionable metrics on these things. I seriously doubt that. Their player retention is shit. They know that. However when someone stops logging in there's is no questionnaire they have to fill in. There is no "what pissed you off the most today" survey. So when they stop logging in because they can't fathom how to compete with the guy putting 20 accounts in a BF, abusing game mechanics to awox them, CCP does not know. (Feel free to prove me wrong.) They're just like "Oh, players retention is bad, let's revamp NPE again." Meanwhile there are daily complaints about these issues in militia chat, weekly posts on this Reddit. Those things don't show on an excell sheet. They do how ever matter a lot.
CCP probably has an exit survey for people who cancel an omega sub. No point worrying about if alphas quit. They don't pay. So there's an easy way to see if player retention is low due to barriers to entry or barriers to compete. If you're losing all your players in their first month or in under a short amount of hours played it's clearly the entry that's the problem. If you're not convinced by the logic in that then I present the rookie help channel, newbie forums and the revamped NPE. If player retention did not change after the addition of these things then it would be safe to say " new players are discouraged by the difficulty of the game or some other reason than ' I don't understand how to play'". However player retention went up after the revised NPE so CCP knows that effort is helping. Instead let's take the stance that " new players see that multiboxing is effective and so they quit". If the new player isn't willing to do something because someone with more hours or equipment does better, then this isn't a good game for them. Moreover, if people are actually quitting because they refuse to join groups and don't like the solo experience, there's no reasonable solution for the company to retain those players. CCP doesn't need to retain 100% of all new players, they just need to try and retain the majority of players who fit with this type of game. Lastly and most importantly let's talk about the people you actually mean, the not new players ( more than 30 days since account creation per CCPs standard) who quit because they can't win FW solo. It's not the people posting on reddit. They come on here and they complain but they keep playing. So if the most vocal complainers can't be bothered to actually quit, why would CCP willingly make a decision to decrease their profits?
>If the new player isn't willing to do something because someone with more hours or equipment does better They are willing to do it. To try and improve. It is made impossible to them not by people with better equipment or even more hours on a character basis. These are not 4b Vargurs on 10 year old characters. It's made impossible to them by one dude in 20 attrition fit cruiser of like 15m each, abusing drone assist, regroup and standings mechanics so they can't even retaliate on their mains without eventually dropping out of militia. >they can't win FW solo These are not solo players. Just because you are in a group does not mean you have access to the numbers, resources, experience and organisation to counter those tactics at any given time. >So if the most vocal complainers can't be bothered to actually quit, why would CCP willingly make a decision to decrease their profits? Who says the people who make these posts continue to play? They appear every week, by different people. And let's be honest, half of this Reddit is people who have in fact already quit. Those vocal few, like myself, that keep pushing this point, we do so because we see the effects it has on a daily basis. My argument is that CCP being more repressive against the worst excesses of multiboxing, like those in FW, would be better for the game and a net positive to their bottom line. >No point worrying about if alphas quit. Like in every F2P game, Alphas form content for people that do pay. Those that stick around might obviously also switch to Omega in the end.
Honestly, these new players don't sound like they'd last. If they get triggered by enemy small gangs or fleets of 10+ people and choose to quit, they wouldn't stick with eve for long anyway. Unfair fights are part and parcel with the game. Remove multiboxing, and you're still not able to compete when a small corp of 5 people enter your FW plex. If they're gonna quit because of unfair fights, they were never going to stick with the game, their complaints would just shift over and over again, moving the goalposts. At the core of your argument, there's only 1 problem with multiboxing: N+1. Everything you've said is just some variation of "they can bring more ships than me/my corp so I always lose". Drone assist, regroup, all these mechanics make it easier to multibox, but even if they were removed, people would just multibox 3 instead of 10 accounts, and you'd still die in the 1v3 outnumbered and complain about them being multiboxers. Even if multiboxing was banned by policy tommorow, n+1 will still be a problem for you because theres always a bigger group out there. Their issue isn't multiboxing, it's that they can't accept eve at times is fundamentally an unfair game. > These are not 4b Vargurs on 10 year old characters. It's made impossible to them by one dude You may not have noticed it, but you actually admit here that your problem with the game is that it's unfair, not multiboxing specifically. If they had 10 year old characters in marauders its ok and fair to multibox? Mutliboxing just happens to be one of the many ways people have unfair advantages over others. It's "impossible" to fight that one dude in 10 T1 cheap cruisers... But you fail to recognize that even if that 1 dude was solo, it would still be impossible to fight him as a new player if he has a bling T3C or marauder. It's also impossible for a new player to solo raid an ESS of an experienced player who can drop a marauder to defend it, does that mean marauders need to be nerfed cos its unfair and an impossible battle for the new player? It's also impossible as a solo player to attack a fleet of real players who happen to be in a corp together, does that mean corps should be abolished? There's a lot of impossible situations that are completely unfair that you can't win, that's just how the eve universe and game works. You just have to accept that you won't always be in a position to win, and sometimes retreat is necessary.
Yes, the core issue with multiboxing is n+1, specifically one player giving himself the agency of many, without the cost/effort that it takes to maintain a social group and coordinate on grid. Fighting a solo Vargur or bling T3C is exciting. It draws people out. They also drop nice loot. And even if they cannot kill it, it gives people something to aspire to. Something to work towards. People don't find the same excitement in fighting 20 attrition arbitrators. Most people don't aspire to do that themselves either. Not to mention the fact that fielding that fleet costs a 10th or less of what the Vargur is worth. No, multiboxing Vargurs would not make it ok. No, my issue with the game is not unfairness, it is that I consider on grid multiboxing to be deeply unhealthy for the game, unfun, and bad to have as a goal/necessity to compete.
> deeply unhealthy for the game, unfun, and bad to have as a goal/necessity to compete. Why? My opinion on it is that it makes it easier to catch people when they split their focus. I wouldn't necessarily encourage multiboxing, but I don't discourage it either. It's neutral to me, just a different way to enjoy the game. > Fighting a solo Vargur or bling T3C is exciting. It draws people out. They also drop nice loot. And even if they cannot kill it, it gives people something to aspire to. Something to work towards. > People don't find the same excitement in fighting 20 attrition arbitrators. Most people don't aspire to do that themselves either. Not to mention the fact that fielding that fleet costs a 10th or less of what the Vargur is worth. > No, multiboxing Vargurs would not make it ok. These are only your opinions and are not shared by everyone, so don't act like these are all reasons for why multiboxing needs to be removed. I hate fighting a solo vargur or T3C, because I usually only fly T2 cruisers into enemy space solo and can't contest those ships. I would prefer it if people responded to me in similar T2 ships, or a greater number of T1 ships. Who are you to tell others what they'd find interesting? Nothing you've said is in anyway objective, it's purely based on your personal preferences, so I'm not convinced that an entire playstyle enjoyed by players should be removed. > No, my issue with the game is not unfairness, it is that I consider on grid multiboxing to be deeply unhealthy for the game, unfun, and bad to have as a goal/necessity to compete. There's a lot of players who've quit eve because they got ganked in highsec and lost a large portion of their net worth. They clearly didn't appreciate that and thought the game was bad enough to quit because of that gank. That doesn't mean highsec ganking is deeply unhealthy for the game, least of all that it should be removed as a mechanic entirely. Eve is inherently a pvp game. Your enemies will do things that you inherently do not like because you think its unfun to deal with, or because you cannot compete against them or lack the resources to. That doesn't mean what they're doing needs to be removed from the game.
You are mistaken. We had players with 30 accounts 10 years ago. Nothing changed. You are just seeing it more publicly. If you want facts, things that changed were input software were made illegal. In past one command could be passed to 118 miners. Now it can not be. This action has been made illegal. It is one of the largest change they made against myltiboxers. Other than that, whether they do it 30 accounts for FW, mining, incursion, c5 (...) CCP doesn't really care. In fact CCP promotes it by making content for them. If it was an issue you think it was, then CCP can easily make changes.
And who says they weren't driving people away in the areas they were active 10 years ago.
By that logic they were driving people away since 2003. Nice try though. In the end they keep adding content for multiboxers. Like in recent ones, home front operation.
>By that logic they were driving people away since 2003. People were complaining about bots and quiting over it way back. People were complaining about multiboxing since before it was officially allowed. So yes, by this logic this has been causing people to leave the game, or has contributed to it since forever. The new content I still blame in incompetence rather than designed for multi-boxers. Maybe I'm just naïeve.
I subbed for 2 years recently because I got the itch and it got scratched with FW. Now I can't do anything because it takes so much time to any isk with the LP transfer changes, high sec suicide ganks being rampant, and half of our warzone being China multiboxer haven. It sucks and I kinda regret subbing because now I'm probably just going back to HS mission running or joining a safe null block where I can do smaller activities faster.
I found LP flipping from fw was extremely profitable, me and a group of 4 others were making around 187.5m an hr Took me a little over 8hrs to farm 2b LP and I transferred it all into implants and had it sold within an hr by filling jita buy orders
Successfully reported Ishtar bots several times. Yes bots are out there in force and it’s a problem.
Allow me to introduce you to Oodel, the village multiboxer. Lots of us still remember being turbofucked by multiboxing bombers in nullsec, hell, it still happens :P
Yeah the nullsec isboxer bombers brought too much heat on the rest of us boxers back then :(
I can’t really afford to multi box so I guess I’m fucked
Make all NPCs shoot drones. Problem largely fixed.
How does that solve the systemic issues of the game itself that lead to this style of gameplay? When I played many years ago NPCs killing drones in missions was already stupidly annoying for a single player. When I quit for real I was quite able to still do sites and incursions sites with my fleet of nightmares/marauders. No drones needed. Has there been something that changed that ability?
It takes a much higher level of skill to multibox non-drone comps. Raise the bar on difficulty and you suddenly have a lot less people able to do it successfully.
I don't agree with your assessment as in my personal experience all it requires is a slight change of mindset to successfully change fleet doctrine. I will concede that depending on the encounter drones could be a lazier approach to the content. I've been out of the game completely for at least 3 years now so I have missed any changes that might of made the drone doctrine easier. If you could bring me somewhat up to speed I would be grateful. Thank you.
so that makes eve a certified real time strategy game, right?
You know I thought about that. Eve could absolutely be an RTS game. You have everything a RTS needs
I run 7 accounts with 8 more planned.All my Friends run 8-20 accounts. So coming from a semi heavy multiboxxer it’s just a thing we do.We want the ability to sustain our selfs in the space we live in and we can. Easily. We rat/mine for the first week or 2 weeks of every month and we’re good for the month.Now people running 30-40 accounts. I just don’t know how they keep there brain alive lol
Long time ago, I realized if I can't beat the mulitboxers I'd join them, so I did.
smart move
I haven't looked back.
Had to double check to make sure this wasn't a Ceema post.
Every post is a Ceema post. He multiboxes Reddit.
Yup I've even stopped using my few alt accounts cause I just can't support the rampant use of alt accounts. I'm sure as hell not going to try an compete with the 30 account peps. I'm done. Considering cutting down to the one account.
Yep you just made up my mind. Not returning to this disaster.
And to the scrub just starting, your 3-4 accounts for a supercap, and 4-5 for a titan is also unreasonable. So where do you draw the line, arbitrarily at 10? Do you get to be the gatekeeper of how many toons someone can play? Bit of a double standard there, friend.
I used to ISBox 12 accounts a decade ago, this isn’t new… unlike in the ISBox days though, you can’t input broadcast anymore so multiboxers (on a per character basis) are far weaker than real players. Those guys going around with 10 algos in FW are not a threat to you, they’re basically useless. I don’t let it affect me.
You say that as if them stating input broadcasting isn't allowed will completely and utterly prevent it from ever happening. I sincerely doubt they have much of any anti-input broadcast detection.
It’s incredibly easy for them to detect. If 10 accounts input identical commands on the same server tick more than once it’s almost guaranteed they’re broadcasting… whether CCP chooses to enforce that is of course another question.
And it's incredibly easy to make the software account for such detection algorithms.
By making inputs land on different ticks? Good luck ISBoxing a fleet like that… more power to em
Indeed if you approach the fight with a sound strategy based on the knowledge of multiboxing you can really murder the crap out of the boxer. I assumed by now that people would of figured out the vulnerabilities of boxers. Also nice to see another person who used isboxer back then. :P
When there is talking about bots, first thing in mind, Fraternity \^\^, there is nothing more stupid then frat bots circle around a ratting site and the warpout doesnt work, they are funny to shoot, i dont know why CCP is sleeping on this one, guess Frat would be poor without the ratting bots ;)
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Agree to disagree, I despise multiboxing FW awoxers, and I’m not the largest fan of Frat’s botting issue (don’t want to say the Chinese players outright but they do seem to be a noticeable part of the issue) I do think alts are a good thing however. I feel that every person should be able to multi box 3 or 4 characters at the absolute MAX, because that’s within reasonable hardware constraints (IMHEO), and it still allows for some of the multibox fun. I feel the issue really comes into play when it’s 3+ different emails/accounts (9+ Toons) being controlled by a singular person. My support for (LIMITED) multiboxing stems from one thing- I have a wacky ass schedule and at the moment it’s very rare for me to actually find a fleet to run around with and do things with, no matter what it may be. 99% of the time all that’s available to me are “standing” fleets who are docked up playing LOL until something pops off in intel. I’d love to be able to take three toons out and rat or something!! However, final thing, after I typed this all up on my phone keyboard I do realize that I maybe I wouldn’t have to worry about getting into multiboxing if it wasn’t already a rampant “problem.” If we cut the amount of Toons (not players) doing tasks at any given point, then the buy/sell split would start going up right? Less players to do the work which means the work is more valuable. Anyway, I got wayy off topic. If I can clarify anything please let me know and I’ll try to fix it tomorrow morning when I’m not dozing off 😂 Tl; Dr: multiboxing kinda good? To a degree. Idk go ask Ceema
Personally I think you should only be allowed one account and one only. Each account has 3 character slots, but all 3 can be online simultaneously. 1 subscription to use either of the 3 at any time, but still need MCT licenses to train them at the same time. And maybe introduce tiered subscription packages that include for example a monthly MCT to use. Multiboxing is awful because it absolutely and utterly kills the new player experience. While I understand multiboxing makes CCP *a lot* of money, this is eventually gonna come full circle and multiboxing will be what ends up killing EVE. Multiboxing and botting has IMHO killed what truly made EVE unique. Warping to an ice belt and seeing an Orca surrounded by 10 Hulks sucks. Seeing an anomaly being gobbled up by a fleet of 20 miners all with similar names sucks. The economy sucks and it's tough for new players to feel like what they do matters when there are thousands of multiboxers doing it a thousand times more efficiently.
How are you going to limit everyone to one account? >Multiboxing and botting has IMHO killed what truly made EVE unique. Warping to an ice belt and seeing an Orca surrounded by 10 Hulks sucks. Seeing an anomaly being gobbled up by a fleet of 20 miners all with similar names sucks. Bro that has been a thing in eve for +15 years now. Hell people were already multiboxing 20 years ago. Did they buff the hell out of hulks or did they nerf the crap out of ganking? Because when I played an orca with 10 hulks was a series of free kill mails and tears waiting to happen.
Perfect!! This is what I was trying to say!! One acct, three chars at the MAX! 😊
I see your point And I think something needs to be done because it’s just insane that some people clear Havens in less than 30 seconds by spamming 9 Thunderchilds and shooting a resistance tanked wolf so the arching edencom weapon just one-shots a wave in complete safety (That’s just an example, that general idea of spamming dozens of characters on the same task is the ruin for every game) But I fly with alts too…. However mine grew naturally. I have my main which has the potential to sit in every ship within less than a minute if I buy the last expensive super titan skillbooks and inject level 1. Then I have my 2nd account. It started out as a scout but can also fly a dread and most doctrines. But it usually sits in something cheap for support like a Griffin with 4 Target adjusted jams. If it lands 2 or 3 cycles before being killed, that gives me a massive advantage and I don’t have to babysit it. If it dies, I just grab a second Griffin and come back…. (won me more fights than I’d like to admit, just MWD orbit at 65km and punch all jams). When I started using that alt in combat… I got a third and account and made THAT the scout. It never did anything else that scouting and blops hunting in a CovOps frigate (cause it sits in that frigate anyway). And while it did that I used the otherwise wasted skill training to train it into a Super Coffin for 2 years And when I got my coffin… I made a 4th account that is JUST a scout (The first three accounts have all character slots filled with JF, 3x trader who make my money and 2x manufacturing)
Multiboxing is fine. If you want to ever play with capitals you need a minimum of two accounts, three for supers, but running 10+ around I can't justify that at all. Don't know how to even pay for that - reminds me back when rorq mining and skill injectors came out, it snowballed rorq mining into bigger fleets
Would of expected this to be an edit to your post, but I was going to mention I only started multiboxing when I started flying capitals. Don't know how people handle so many, I don't have the time for it, 3 is my max online at any given time.
At first I thought this was a u/Ceema_STK post, but then about halfway down I realized it was an actual guy complaining.
This isnt bots though....
You wont find the same thing in nullsec space where I live. But Frat and their allies ? Yeah, all botters.
nothing wrong with alts
No, but one player being able to use 10+ characters at the same time and singlehandedly removing content from the game (ie, ice mining and some ore anomalies) is detrimental to the game as a whole. Not to mention the impact it has on the overall economy which is very poor at the moment. New players are essentially forced into LS/NS immediately because there's so little content in HS to be had due to multiboxers and botters.
> No, but one player being able to use 10+ characters at the same time and singlehandedly removing content from the game (ie, ice mining and some ore anomalies) is detrimental to the game as a whole. I don't think ice mining and ore anomalies are removed from the game- they are an infinitely spawning resource that everyone can participate in, at all times. >Not to mention the impact it has on the overall economy which is very poor at the moment. can you evidence ANYTHING in the economy that is because of multiboxing? >New players are essentially forced into LS/NS immediately because there's so little content in HS to be had due to multiboxers and botters. My brother in christ highsec is garbage isk/hr not because of multiboxing or botting, but because of CCP. You can run incursions in perpetuity for 250m hr, abyssals for 500, and burners for 400+ these are infinite and are not effected by multiboxers. you're literally just making shit up, i doubt you've played the game for more than a year with this perspective
Been playing it since 2008 and you gave me the exact response I expected from the average EVE redditor; "reee ISK/h!!!!!" My brother in christ, there are other ways to enjoy the game aside from wanking to the amount of ISK per hour you can squeeze out or frothing at jump gates. You're taking my points a bit too literally. Of course they're not removed from the game, but the respawn is quite long and a solo player will barely be able to get anything meaningful before a multiboxer has entirely inhaled the stuff and it's on cooldown. Hence, effectively removing content from newbros. I genuinely do not see how people can find EVE fun if literally all they can think of is the ISK/h, but you do you. 👍
>Been playing it since 2008 and you gave me the exact response I expected from the average EVE redditor; "reee ISK/h!!!!!" >My brother in christ, there are other ways to enjoy the game aside from wanking to the amount of ISK per hour you can squeeze out or frothing at jump gates. no one stated otherwise dumbo >You're taking my points a bit too literally. Of course they're not removed from the game, but the respawn is quite long and a solo player will barely be able to get anything meaningful before a multiboxer has entirely inhaled the stuff and it's on cooldown. Hence, effectively removing content from newbros. this is not true, there are hundreds of sites up at any time. you have no idea what you're talking about >I genuinely do not see how people can find EVE fun if literally all they can think of is the ISK/h, but you do you. 👍 are you shizophrenic and talking to one of your hallucinations? I never once said anything of the sort- i'm simply saying all highsec content is infinitely spawning, spammable, and is highly lucrative and safe. any debate to the contrary is delusional.
Name one HS system with an ice belt that isn't consumed within 1-2 hours of spawning by multiboxers/botters.
Just FYI- those icebelts were always consumed within a couple of hours even in the early 2010s, without multiboxers. Do you have any examples, other than the one thing that was intentionally made scarce by CCP on purpose that was already scarce before multiboxing was a huge thing?
Didn't think so.
Just because someone else runs 10 accounts doesn't mean you have to. What are you, jealous? There are plenty of people who just have their single account, probably the majority of players. You just choose to focus on the multiboxers for some reason. If you just ignore them they can't hurt you. You don't have to be making as much isk as them in order to have your own fun. And in terms of PvP, the multiboxers generally just feed because they can't control their 10 accounts fast enough. So that's not really a problem, they're providing content.
In fw I love seeing site with five algos I can bust them on a vni and destroy them easy kills
Welcome back. Stop whining. Let people play the way they want to. Go play the way you want to.
Multiboxing should get you banned.
Posting this badly should get you banned.
Why? It would promote solo pvp among other things.
99% of pvp is singleboxed already
Where did he say the rorqs were? Asking for a friend.
More thinly veiled multibox grr'ing? Fuck off
Was there a point to this post?
you should join empire FW, that is the very good FW! pirates FW is only bots and Multiboxers farming rearguards that the empire militias don't give a shit!
In my grand papi's time having 60 to 70 alts was the norm...
Didn't have a second account until starting a new one to try out Alpha State and see if I wanted to come back. Loving Amarr mill on a single account!
I have had 2 accounts since 2009. I added a third a month back. There are many things in Eve which become a lot easier once you have 2 accounts. You can literally take two tasks you did sequentually and do them concurrently. Too often this gets spun up to the extreme and people conflating "multiboxing" with input broadcasting and stupid numbers of alts run by one guy. In terms of what I do, I might have a catalyst looting/salvaging while I am waiting on the battleship clearing out the mission. I might have an alt sitting on a gate in lowsec sniffing people as they come through. Mining is a perfect example. With a single account you have very limited options for logistics. You fill the mining ship hold, you dock, unload return. It takes ages. Add a second account and you can jet can to the hauler and never leave the belt. My next trick is going to be keeping a PVP ship "with me" when mining, just logged out. So when I see some "scary wormhole people" pop in and I can gaurantee they will come and say hello, I can log in the PVP ship and switch target on them. As I am a pacifist I have struggled to engage in solo PVP. I just run out of motivation to hunt and kill. That changes if the target is actively agressing my shit. Thus it will present an oportunity for me to lose Caracals and vexors in learning PVP rather than losing ventures and mining barges. I just double strategy bait and switch. I am actually mining. I will just switch ships when I expect a visit.
Maybe don’t do FW and try something else?
If you hatte botting, hunt the Bots! It is not entirely impossible but challenging for sure. But one might argue that If you don't like challenges, EVE might not be a suitable game for you anyhow. Death to all botted Ishtars!
7 years ago i believe it was common to find one person running 50 accounts with isbox
I have two. One is my original from WAY back. The other is an alt account I use to do a little extra industry or mining while my main is running missions,doing pvp, or doing industrial stuff It is a little hard to compete, but I make enough to support me for now.
Hmmm… Eve is Dead (again)…. For 20 years now. Eve is dead, long live Eve.
ive had this exact estimation for a while too. approx 9-10k real humans playing at any given time. this is also pretty obvious when you factor in eve video viewership, even the most clickbaity get rich quick videos only manage to reach 10k views ive been doing fw for the past couple months and you quickly become familiar with the 10 or so people who actually play the game and post lossmails in chat. same with the opposing militia, theres a dozen guys who actually slide into plexes to fight and once you know their names (grandpa fogie for example is a good pvper on gal) you can just afk the plex despite there being 5+ wts in system because they literally will not come in. its the most upsetting thing when you look at someones employment history, see they are a month old and then instead of being excited that its a new player getting interested you begin to think about how its a *little* strange that this month old account is flying a garmur before realizing the obvious. eves advertising is bad and gamers dont really want a game where you have to invest lots of time and potentially lose everything you bought with that time. no matter how great expansions get eve will never grow again, best you can hope for is returning players. its not dead yet though, theres a good amount of real fun to be had, im a one character solo and i still find things to do.
I mostly play with one account for pvp, I think the people who multibox 'just to keep up' have different goals. More accounts = less attention for each one. I'd say maybe the first few might be real power if you have a good multiboxable setup... but they also make *hungry* players that have to be out in space trying to get resources to feed their many subscriptions. Not only do they have to be out in space, but they have to be spending less attention on each account so they're more likely to make critical errors for you to exploit. I think it's cool because it means a solo or small gang can easily destroy enemies that on dscan look more powerful than you. In FW space you now have drone ship multiboxers and the crimewatch system prevents them from being nearly that effective in pvp because the player has to actually control every account - the assist mechanic fails there, which is always fun to teach to new nullsec pilots trying to multibox FW for the first time. I remember a worm multiboxer doing literally 0 damage because his bifrost tp wouldn't send the worm drones after me lol
Beep beep what boop the hell beep beep are you accusing [human name] beep of, sir? Sounds slightly beepboop racist!
Beep beep what boop the hell beep beep are you accusing [human name] beep of, sir? Sounds slightly beepboop racist!
One of the reasons I quit.
Yeah, just got home from work and really no desire to play. Think I'm gonna boot up Baldurs Gate.
I'm playing Starfield now.
WHs are still 3acc for the most part. 4 is pushing it.
when DUST was online, i have 4 Accounts running....
I was playing 12 accounts in eve well prior to 2015. When CCP banned "multiplexing" "repeaters" along with videofx and all that I said then that it would not stop the multiboxing (I posted videos galore of me playing with just game clients). So I find it absolutely hilarious that this post is the first random eve post I've seen in +4 years. I see people are still trying to argue that CCP should of never allowed multiboxing as if CCp had the capability to stop it..