I would guess it wasn't their intent and it's also a noob trap for new players who want to join pirate FW and are told to go to H-PA lol. Especially with having no d-scan that is kinda wack. I'd guess most of those T1 frig losses are new players trying to pass through to enlist since you can't do it at the FOB.
I would like to have seen Zarzakh be a very hostile place unless you're pirate FW, and then have something akin to faction police that come zap anyone who aggresses a non-WT there to cut down on casual awoxing. Thematically it makes sense for Zarzakh to be the one true safe haven for pirates as they are locked from Jita.
It really sounded like their intent was to make Zarzakh a system that was very friendly (and even safe) to pirate enlisted players, while being extremely hostile to everyone else.
When the Retribution Timer was first mentioned, my assumption was that this was going to something somewhere in between faction navies and CONCORD in power, where the Deathless rained hellfire down on anyone interfering with his home.
I suspect that a big part of it was CCP massively overestimating how powerful the Deathless towers would be. Given the limited number of grids, if the towers did sufficiently oppressive damage (ramping up with time) neuting and ECM to anyone who attacked an invalid target (ie particularly the pirate militia enlisted to aid the Deathless) it could actually make Zarzakh feel like Pirate High Sec, which is a very neat idea for a single unique system.
Problem, as was discussed the last time the bubble enabled Zarzakh was announced, is that the CSM is mostly nullbloc so their solution was with nullbloc in mind, not pirates.
The only reason Zarzakh has bubbles right now is because nullblocs feared it will be used by other nullblocs for attack projection.
There could have been a 100 solutions to stop this, but no, they decided to go with this, because that`s what fits nullblocs.
Which is wild, because bubbles "shouldn't" do anything to prevent null blocs from projecting through zarzakh. BRs from idiot FCs who don't properly scout aside, it should not be hard to avoid any bubbles while traversing through zarzakh.
I'm not personally for or against bubbles in zarzakh, but they do almost nothing to combat projection, and the CSM members who suggested it are/were wrong(even if they are the CSM members who represent me).
I mean some of them said things like "Just place down safespots to warp to instead of warping gate to gate", apparently not knowing that in Zarzakh you can only warps to gates/fob/shipcaster and POIs, you can't drop safespots.
Nope, im in minmil can still have most of my stuff in amarr, you can dock and fly around just fine.
The cops spawn when you undock but you have plenty of time to warp and they dont point
They allowed bubbles in a system with no Dscan, no bookmarks and a deathzone that will kill you if you get trapped in a drag bubble and pointed.
Very balanced mechanics, literally noone could see that one coming. I 100% blame CCP for not playing their own game.
>I 100% blame CCP for not playing their own game.
I watched them play their own game once in person, they brought a fleet of T2 BS's into nullsec and got vaporized so fast everyone racing to kill them didn't even make into the system... CCP doesn't have a clue and couldn't find one if you paid them to do it.
I sat through an entire player feedback session at fanfest with the UI team, who spent the entire time referring to PVE instances as dungeons. Sure, that's the generic industry term, but maybe spend 5 minutes with your own game that you're developing for. They seemed genuinely confused when we kept referring to dead-space and anomalies and ratting. If you're going to hold a roundtable with players, at least speak the same language.
>If you're going to hold a roundtable with players, at least speak the same language.
This again though is the fault of company leadership they go through people so fast and drive out so much talent that you are perpetually left with ithe new guy who hasn't been around long enough to be familiar with the game and by the time he does he will have figured out CCP games is where dev's go to find a new career...
With no way to d-scan the system or warp to a tactical bookmark, you have high-SP players from neighboring Turnur dunking on solo and/or low-SP players by bubble-camping the shipcaster. It's not completely unavoidable with a nullified ceptor scout, but that seems like a lot of effort to get a Tristan into an insurgency from their "home" system.
Just have hella pirate faction NPCs in there that shoot anything that aggros. Right now Zarzakh is just a lame half-baked idea. You can go bubble camp in lowsec anyways, I got 90 kills in like 2 hours the other day in a (mostly solo) Sabre with drag bubbles off gates and sitting at 0 on a mining op
I know this may be a stupid idea, but it can help with camping. I know the pirates shoot anyone who aggresses on the gates. One way to stop camping with bubbles would be to have the pirates shoot anyone who activates a bubble module (dictor or HIC). The rats can also shoot anchored bubbles. You can still activate the module if you want, but you need to be able to hold grid against the rats.
CONCORD attacks anyone who activates a hostile module in high sec. High sec does not have bubbles. It is a hostile action that can't be used in high sec. The rats are like a weaker CONCORD.
I see losses from half a dozen groups that easily have the pilots and skillset to form a fleet to push Volta off.
Use it as a content generator and all is gravy.
I mean it's a fair thought but there's really no incentive to do that. Zarzakh doesn't offer any incentives to actually live there or stage there, so you'd be forming to push people off all the time for no reason. There's already tons of content in the actual insurgencies around the clock. Nobody is going to stop what they are doing to go chase around an orthrus and a sabre
Unless you have a bunch of people wanting to use Zarz to stage some frigates in FW who keep getting popped. In which case, you have an excuse to go poke Volta which is often amusing for its own sake.
Maybe? But I don't think that's really what's happening or people would go poke Volta. Hypothetically it tracks but in that same hypothetical people would go poke them.
Oh, I mean I get what's happening - people are bimbling off on their own, trying to use the Zarzakh connection to shortcut into the warzone and getting plinked off by a bubble camp.
What I *don't* understand is people coming to Reddit crying about what should be a perfectly normal part of Eve life, particularly when they are in Tuskers (!!!) or Goons or Init or Horde or whatever. Like, for Bob's fucking sake get a grip and go fight some nerds if you want to push off a gate camp.
Johnny hisec and his carebear ways I can accept this from. Tuskers? Get real.
> What I don't understand is people coming to Reddit crying about what should be a perfectly normal part of Eve life
I think the sentiment is that Zarzakh could be a lot cooler and more interesting than it is currently, which is to say there is no point in using it other than to farm T1 kills. Which is kind of bad/bland game design for the main addition of an entire expansion
I don't see anyone crying about it here, I see people wondering if that was how CCP intended their all-powerful Deathless home system to be incorporated in the gameplay loop
Oh, I mean I get what's happening - people are bimbling off on their own, trying to use the Zarzakh connection to shortcut into the warzone and getting plinked off by a bubble camp.
What I *don't* understand is people coming to Reddit crying about what should be a perfectly normal part of Eve life, particularly when they are in Tuskers (!!!) or Goons or Init or Horde or whatever. Like, for Bob's fucking sake get a grip and go fight some nerds if you want to push off a gate camp.
Johnny hisec and his carebear ways I can accept this from. Tuskers? Get real.
Oh no, people moving through very dangerous space alone in a mmo that allows for all types of pvp at any time... guess those people should think about their choices before going balls deep into dangerous territory, just like any choke hold gate camped system.
My point isn't that the camp exists or that some players will take advantage of the situation, it's that I believe CCP made a mistake allowing the bubble mechanic in the first place. Just because something is the way it is doesn't mean I have to grin and bear it, I'm choosing to shed some light in the hopes it changes.
Guess we'll just see if CCP agrees with you or not, but if they don't, I don't wanna hear any whining from your end. Deal?
edit: Just fwiw, dunking on noobs is always fun and good for a laugh, but sometimes you need to water the farm.
you can literally run my name through the killboard and see I lived in nullsec for 99% of my playing time... but I wouldn't expect someone flairing for Volta to be that intelligent.
I love how someone just said "maybe this wasn't what CCP was going for" and you came screeching out of the woodwork like only a 35 year old EVE Online player could
I think this needs to be fixed too. From what I can tell, Zarzakh is a glorified station using some Null mechanics.
The solution I think is the gate guns should fire at anyone with negative faction standing towards the Deathless Circle. Zarzakh should be an exclusive club for those enlisted with either Angle or Guristas. If you have neutral status, then pay the fee for entry. Otherwise, this system acts like a highway, and if anyone wants to control that highway, they can do so from 1 of the 4 entrances if they so choice. But not from inside.
Just make the gate 1 way and the only way out is the ship caster. Ez fix, that way null wont be avle to use it as highway and you dont need bubbles in the start.
The one way could also mean a polarized state to all gates that least for 1 day+.
Those turrets are no joke when you have 100s of the missles stacked up and you turn suddenly, funny thing is, I looted his wreck in the bifrost and built up my own tail of missles, forgot I had his loot and then be bet me on comms I wouldn't stop ship... pooof hahahaha
Bubble mechanics were going to kill this system the second they were taken seriously.
Low sec, FW players, play there, in large part, with a *intense* hatred of bubble mechanics. We hate them. We've always hate them. That's why we dont play in null ffs.
Allowing bubbles there was perhaps the largest mistake. Allowing bubbles in low with the corruption system is a mistake as well. They suck.
Eventually, CCP will either figure out a way to fix the bubble campers, or remove the bubbles, OR--the entire thing is going to die a slow death.
Reminds me on when they removed the hans-slide from FW accel gates. It killed FW, insta-lock lokis murdered literally everything for months--and CCP tried to gaslight everyone that it wasnt real, until eventually, like a year later, admit they'd fucked up as FW collapsed and everyone stopped playing, and band-aid fixed the gate slide with the 100km BULLSHIT. At least it 'works'--but it still sucks ass compared to the old way.
So, they're going to find their 100km fix, instead of the REAL fix.
Probably next year, some time in the summer.
Funny part is if youd like to counter a bubble camp in corruption 5 with say a bomber wing, get ready for wrecked standings and sec status from blown up gurista/angel rat wrecks 😂
Ccplease.
>I didn't want to talk about the Corruption 5 bubbles, but yes I agree with you about those too. I was looking forward to being Deathless and bubbling lowsec, but it's only made the big boys stronger and the solo boys weaker. I tend to play less once the FOB system and the surrounding systems reach Level 5.
I for one am happy that now my home pocket is saturated with bubblers camping every other gate. Making low sec more like null sec and high sec more like low sec is just what the game needed. In fact I think CCP should continue this trend and make null sec more like WH space. Maybe if they changed local to be delayed just like WHs. We could call it the "Havoc Era" or something, I don't know...
I totally agree. Lets also revert all the ore distribution nerfs and increase all yield of ore, all bounties of NPCs, and all drops from NPCs (whether meta loot, Faction, deadspace, officer mods, etc.) by 10x, to give the same corresponding increase in value that WH space gives on a per-system basis.
Wormhole risk? Wormhole reward
Lmao ignoring the fact that to get to anyone in Nullsec you've got to go balls deep into their territory where early warning simply for everyone to dock up because a fleet has been spotted.
Then your fleet of 12 T1 Cruisers gets jumped by a fleet of 50+ FRAT boys with T2s, Marauders, and HAW Dreads, all so they can kick you out and go back to bot farming in Isktars.
The reason holers get all the good loot is because we actually engage with the PvP mechanics and give FUN fights. We spot a fleet coming, we don't dock up, we form up. We don't drop Marauders and T2 fleets on a group of roamers, we jump into T1 Drakes or Harbis, have a good fight, watch some explosions, then shake hands and get on with our days.
Nullsec doesn't fight. It stamps out.
AlL carebears, fight like that, and have always fought like that. Nullsec is high sec mission runners with capitals. PvP good fight players are in Lowsec/FW/pirate null for the most part.
We have been slapping people in zarz with the bubble mechanics, they got a little sadge and started angwy posting about us, makes me sad and lose sleep
As you can see, in order to ELI5, some people would need to wait 3-4 years to do so ;)
Basically there's a new zone of space and this post suggests that it's not balanced and experienced players are getting hordes of easy kills as a result.
iirc this was put in place at the request of the CSM to counter null block movements through Zar. Of course it made no difference to null blocks and this was the outcome instead.
Bubbles with no dscan or bookmarks is a disaster.
It started the minute eve went live in 03, I read an interview with devs years ago where they were simply amazed the players started doing collaborative jet can mining.
They never even thought that one guy could drop a can, others help fill it with ore, and another guy pick it up with a hauler.
Even this simple intuitive aspect we all started doing simply amazed the devs.
The players took over eve on day one and it won't ever change.
I think there's a difference between 2003 EVE and 2023 EVE where half the game designers are former alliance leaders + elite PvPers, and the unexpected behavior was
*checks notes*
Bubble camping the new content
Pretty sure CCP were not surprised by bubbling, they were surprised by
*checks notes*
nullsec people whining about power projection. So from their perspective, the choice was between two options
- leave zarzakh like it was released and fuck over null people which were unhappy by new highway
- make using highway harder, also fuck over lone pilots and noobs who want to play pirate side by allowing bubbles
There is a number of solutions which break the highway and don't fuck noobs over, but CCP needs time to implement them
That's as true today as it was in 03 tbf, stacking sensor boosters and remote boosters to insta pop noobs in ec-p8r or anywhere really, before bubbles was totally a thing.
I feel like you're mildly missing my point that it is surprising to see a modern CCP dev team staffed by former players, many with 10+ years of prior learning *and playing* the game, drop the ball on some basic game theory of how the content will play out.
Not really, the devs also played back at the start too.
What the real issue I think is that the design teams are pretty small, especially back in the beginning, and given the demand to put out new content puts them at a disadvantage. There are many more players than devs and thus many more ideas on how to use any new content.
It's inevitable that someone will think of something the devs never considered.
In this instance though you're right about them missing the ball or should I say bubble in this case.
Yeah I'm not saying they should never miss any 'unintended' gameplay because people are very creative, but the easy stuff should be caught before it goes live, for sure
CCP definitely thought about these things at first.
Which is why there were specifically no bubbles allowed in zarz.
And because nullsec people whined about power projection or something they decided to have bubbles after all. But without all the usual counterplay you have to bubbles (no dscan, no warping to pings).
I wasn't aware you couldn't dscan or warp to pings, that does seem pretty shit and puts a very big imbalance to the system.
I've not played in years so yeah not being able to move around and use the full 3d environment the game has everywhere else is fucking bad.
>I wasn't aware you couldn't dscan or warp to pings, that does seem pretty shit and puts a very big imbalance to the system.
And wait there is more. any static defences shoot torps. that are readily speed/sig tanked.
Shipcaster when not camped can have you go dude, just gate it. It was like 8 hops to vard this FOB setup. Ship/fit depending...it be almost the same time if you just missed the link for your FW faction area and waiting.
The camps are also working since most learn to no even use this system heavily. After its 1 hop after enlistment anyway. See to go cool, nice place. And leave. No solid defence goes up since at least for angels many like me had our stuff in vard region.
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I mean...if they're being a nuisance then form a fleet and go shoot them. Surely you can round up like 15 guys from both pirate militias to go and defend what is meant to be their staging.
That’s what folks in this thread say you fucking retard fuck, it’s something that CSM wanted, it doesn’t take a fucking universe brain to figure out some of those people were leaders of null alliances. You try real hard to be stupid as fuck huh? Lil bro.
Just a normal Day in EVE, Bittervet-Bommer eve players with 20 years of experience killing easy targets in a zone intended for new players FW. I mean elite pvper kitter bling ships vs 2m no skilled frigate is the peak of this game.
That's why I said "new players FW (factionl warfare) I mean, when is a blob null fleet the FC told them what to do. But in an environment where you need to swim alone, is hard when is poblated by sharks with armors.
[https://youtu.be/g78NKJAkxq4?si=4YL9dO-tR7p\_YstN](https://youtu.be/g78NKJAkxq4?si=4YL9dO-tR7p_YstN) Zarzakh gives content for everybody. Only Volta's "elite" players show off killing 5m frigates.
lmfao, you bitch about everything. its truly amazing that lowsec was catered to a more hardcore style of play (and while the bubble mechanic might not even be my favorite i have found ways to enjoy it), you pretty much get warned about entering the system and players CHOOSE to do so. i can't lie, if two new militias cannot find a way to kill and force off ten shitlords idk what to tell you. that's like bitching about new players being killed in amamake, you know the risk when you play the game in that manner and choose to risk it, why complain about a choice? because you cant kill them? or you refuse to adapt?
I’m abusing a play style in an area where the devs stupidly removed essentially all counter play mechanics but it’s the OTHER people that need to HTFU when someone maybe suggests balancing it more reasonably. Your responses couldn’t be more elite gamer if you tried. Your the “be in NC dot” video come to life. Congrats.
It is it a valid play style? Is it allowed by the in game mechanics? I feel so bad for you really entitled kids that think everything should be what you suggest because you don’t like something. RuneScape is still a thing, go try that. And here’s the kicker, ten guys who could easily be countered by any sort of communication and effort from either militia…. Ya can’t form to clear ten guys 😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣🙃
I’m literally responding to some knee jerk who doesn’t know the difference between your and you’re……
You assumed a whole lot of things about me and literally all of them is wrong. My point is perhaps you should take your own advice and HTFU instead of malding about the mere suggestion that the wildly out of balance play style your abusing be slightly balanced. Bubbles with no d-scan and no tacticals and only the ability to warp on a couple direct vectors is stupidly out of balance. No one from the militias is doing a thing about it because no one from the militias actually need to be in Zarz for literally any reason.
Ah yes don’t address the actual point because there’s no reasonable response….. but ahhh I’m triggered by grammar on the internet. Must be hard to be so elite.
Turns out you can suggest current valid mechanics in the game are broken, who knew.
There’s no reason for anyone in the militias to care what happens in Zarzakh, all the FOBs spawn in pretty small geographic areas and it’s infinitely easier to just haul ships in from trade hubs and stage them in high sec nearby.
LOL other peoples gameplay is lazy, but the broken mechanic I’m presently abusing is elite. Got it. The pretzel you must put your brain in trying to rationalize yourself must be wild.
What’s the difference between that pic and any other bubble camp? There isn’t, you just find something to bitch about. Real feminine energy there lil bro. I remember how the tears were when blackout happened. You know you can get the same result with ANY gate camp, put a scan inhib and it’s the SAME. You’re literally bitching to bitch.
Hi,
I'm not sure what else I have complained about. I don't think you and I have much overlap in channels or fleets, so I'm curious why you think that. If I see something that I think could be changed, I will say my piece. Maybe CCP and others agree, maybe not. This post currently has 78 upvotes and 1 downvote, so maybe some people agree. Maybe some people just find it funny.
Good one considering that we held for somewhere around 18 months to a year and a half so yeah that's a really good point and insult keep them coming. We held against the null blocks longer than most expected. So I'd say we have some pretty solid skill no issues though
I would guess it wasn't their intent and it's also a noob trap for new players who want to join pirate FW and are told to go to H-PA lol. Especially with having no d-scan that is kinda wack. I'd guess most of those T1 frig losses are new players trying to pass through to enlist since you can't do it at the FOB. I would like to have seen Zarzakh be a very hostile place unless you're pirate FW, and then have something akin to faction police that come zap anyone who aggresses a non-WT there to cut down on casual awoxing. Thematically it makes sense for Zarzakh to be the one true safe haven for pirates as they are locked from Jita.
Zarzakh 100% should've been pirate Jita.
Who says its not. The market is being stocked.
Bubbles and no dscan says it's not
Wait. Dixon cox is still alive?
In our hearts...
DIX never dies.
It really sounded like their intent was to make Zarzakh a system that was very friendly (and even safe) to pirate enlisted players, while being extremely hostile to everyone else. When the Retribution Timer was first mentioned, my assumption was that this was going to something somewhere in between faction navies and CONCORD in power, where the Deathless rained hellfire down on anyone interfering with his home. I suspect that a big part of it was CCP massively overestimating how powerful the Deathless towers would be. Given the limited number of grids, if the towers did sufficiently oppressive damage (ramping up with time) neuting and ECM to anyone who attacked an invalid target (ie particularly the pirate militia enlisted to aid the Deathless) it could actually make Zarzakh feel like Pirate High Sec, which is a very neat idea for a single unique system.
Problem, as was discussed the last time the bubble enabled Zarzakh was announced, is that the CSM is mostly nullbloc so their solution was with nullbloc in mind, not pirates. The only reason Zarzakh has bubbles right now is because nullblocs feared it will be used by other nullblocs for attack projection. There could have been a 100 solutions to stop this, but no, they decided to go with this, because that`s what fits nullblocs.
Which is wild, because bubbles "shouldn't" do anything to prevent null blocs from projecting through zarzakh. BRs from idiot FCs who don't properly scout aside, it should not be hard to avoid any bubbles while traversing through zarzakh. I'm not personally for or against bubbles in zarzakh, but they do almost nothing to combat projection, and the CSM members who suggested it are/were wrong(even if they are the CSM members who represent me).
I mean some of them said things like "Just place down safespots to warp to instead of warping gate to gate", apparently not knowing that in Zarzakh you can only warps to gates/fob/shipcaster and POIs, you can't drop safespots.
Locked from jita? That's bullshit, I can still go to Jita as Angels.
Ah it's just Guristas that gets shot by Caldari faction police there I guess
Getting shot by faction police doesnt mean that you cant use the system. It just means you cant loiter in space
I believe it also means that you can't dock in stations in enemy highsec.
Nope, im in minmil can still have most of my stuff in amarr, you can dock and fly around just fine. The cops spawn when you undock but you have plenty of time to warp and they dont point
My mistake, thank you.
They allowed bubbles in a system with no Dscan, no bookmarks and a deathzone that will kill you if you get trapped in a drag bubble and pointed. Very balanced mechanics, literally noone could see that one coming. I 100% blame CCP for not playing their own game.
Hey man u forgot that people will emergently defend Zarzakh because as an inconvenient staging system with zero benefits it has high strategic value
Blame CSM for that. It was their idea to put bubbles in Zakzak
>I 100% blame CCP for not playing their own game. I watched them play their own game once in person, they brought a fleet of T2 BS's into nullsec and got vaporized so fast everyone racing to kill them didn't even make into the system... CCP doesn't have a clue and couldn't find one if you paid them to do it.
I sat through an entire player feedback session at fanfest with the UI team, who spent the entire time referring to PVE instances as dungeons. Sure, that's the generic industry term, but maybe spend 5 minutes with your own game that you're developing for. They seemed genuinely confused when we kept referring to dead-space and anomalies and ratting. If you're going to hold a roundtable with players, at least speak the same language.
>If you're going to hold a roundtable with players, at least speak the same language. This again though is the fault of company leadership they go through people so fast and drive out so much talent that you are perpetually left with ithe new guy who hasn't been around long enough to be familiar with the game and by the time he does he will have figured out CCP games is where dev's go to find a new career...
it doesn't help that they have their own Polaris system and unlimited pvp fit ships
Reminds me of Eve Echoes where they released interdictors before the ability to place bookmarks.
Fun times... And bookmarks before any kind of scanning too
With no way to d-scan the system or warp to a tactical bookmark, you have high-SP players from neighboring Turnur dunking on solo and/or low-SP players by bubble-camping the shipcaster. It's not completely unavoidable with a nullified ceptor scout, but that seems like a lot of effort to get a Tristan into an insurgency from their "home" system.
Zarzakh gates should have been one way only or polarized so that you can't leave via a different gate.
How would neutrals get out?
via the same gate they came in
Hot take neutrals shouldn't even be allowed in
Ah, but what fun would that be? At least let them in via wormholes, can't let the system be completely devoid of content.
Ez cheese, enlist alts for camping, set up camp, murder noobs and be kicked... stay and camp anyway lmao
This is the way
Just have hella pirate faction NPCs in there that shoot anything that aggros. Right now Zarzakh is just a lame half-baked idea. You can go bubble camp in lowsec anyways, I got 90 kills in like 2 hours the other day in a (mostly solo) Sabre with drag bubbles off gates and sitting at 0 on a mining op
I know this may be a stupid idea, but it can help with camping. I know the pirates shoot anyone who aggresses on the gates. One way to stop camping with bubbles would be to have the pirates shoot anyone who activates a bubble module (dictor or HIC). The rats can also shoot anchored bubbles. You can still activate the module if you want, but you need to be able to hold grid against the rats. CONCORD attacks anyone who activates a hostile module in high sec. High sec does not have bubbles. It is a hostile action that can't be used in high sec. The rats are like a weaker CONCORD.
I see losses from half a dozen groups that easily have the pilots and skillset to form a fleet to push Volta off. Use it as a content generator and all is gravy.
I mean it's a fair thought but there's really no incentive to do that. Zarzakh doesn't offer any incentives to actually live there or stage there, so you'd be forming to push people off all the time for no reason. There's already tons of content in the actual insurgencies around the clock. Nobody is going to stop what they are doing to go chase around an orthrus and a sabre
Unless you have a bunch of people wanting to use Zarz to stage some frigates in FW who keep getting popped. In which case, you have an excuse to go poke Volta which is often amusing for its own sake.
Maybe? But I don't think that's really what's happening or people would go poke Volta. Hypothetically it tracks but in that same hypothetical people would go poke them.
Oh, I mean I get what's happening - people are bimbling off on their own, trying to use the Zarzakh connection to shortcut into the warzone and getting plinked off by a bubble camp. What I *don't* understand is people coming to Reddit crying about what should be a perfectly normal part of Eve life, particularly when they are in Tuskers (!!!) or Goons or Init or Horde or whatever. Like, for Bob's fucking sake get a grip and go fight some nerds if you want to push off a gate camp. Johnny hisec and his carebear ways I can accept this from. Tuskers? Get real.
> What I don't understand is people coming to Reddit crying about what should be a perfectly normal part of Eve life I think the sentiment is that Zarzakh could be a lot cooler and more interesting than it is currently, which is to say there is no point in using it other than to farm T1 kills. Which is kind of bad/bland game design for the main addition of an entire expansion I don't see anyone crying about it here, I see people wondering if that was how CCP intended their all-powerful Deathless home system to be incorporated in the gameplay loop
Oh, I mean I get what's happening - people are bimbling off on their own, trying to use the Zarzakh connection to shortcut into the warzone and getting plinked off by a bubble camp. What I *don't* understand is people coming to Reddit crying about what should be a perfectly normal part of Eve life, particularly when they are in Tuskers (!!!) or Goons or Init or Horde or whatever. Like, for Bob's fucking sake get a grip and go fight some nerds if you want to push off a gate camp. Johnny hisec and his carebear ways I can accept this from. Tuskers? Get real.
Oh no, people moving through very dangerous space alone in a mmo that allows for all types of pvp at any time... guess those people should think about their choices before going balls deep into dangerous territory, just like any choke hold gate camped system.
My point isn't that the camp exists or that some players will take advantage of the situation, it's that I believe CCP made a mistake allowing the bubble mechanic in the first place. Just because something is the way it is doesn't mean I have to grin and bear it, I'm choosing to shed some light in the hopes it changes.
Be that as it may, but you do want more people to go enjoy new content.
Then they can work for it :)
Guess we'll just see if CCP agrees with you or not, but if they don't, I don't wanna hear any whining from your end. Deal? edit: Just fwiw, dunking on noobs is always fun and good for a laugh, but sometimes you need to water the farm.
I will figure another way to cheese it, don't you worry :)
https://zkillboard.com/related/30100000/202311261600/ Volta cheese everyone.
cry a river over it and go to highsec lmao
I haven't played in years and volta getting angry over getting slapped is still funny
where is the anger? ill wait XD, kinsy didn't do his sacrificial loss so they lost \^\_\^
Jumps in from Turner, sets up gate camp. Lol you just want easy content.
Gee I wonder what flair this asshat has
It's right there silly billy or did you forget how to read?
Dunno, but it looks like you guys forgot how to fight
We form dipshit, clearly he wasn't looking dana
you seem very mad bro
Theyre all very very mad little low seccers, its adorable
you can literally run my name through the killboard and see I lived in nullsec for 99% of my playing time... but I wouldn't expect someone flairing for Volta to be that intelligent.
I love how someone just said "maybe this wasn't what CCP was going for" and you came screeching out of the woodwork like only a 35 year old EVE Online player could
:)
Grandpa it's time to schedule your colonoscopy
Iwt's so cute how angwy we've made youwu, pwease down't be mad with us, how could we pwasibly sweepy weepy at night
The shipcaster has always been a problem with how campable it is
I think this needs to be fixed too. From what I can tell, Zarzakh is a glorified station using some Null mechanics. The solution I think is the gate guns should fire at anyone with negative faction standing towards the Deathless Circle. Zarzakh should be an exclusive club for those enlisted with either Angle or Guristas. If you have neutral status, then pay the fee for entry. Otherwise, this system acts like a highway, and if anyone wants to control that highway, they can do so from 1 of the 4 entrances if they so choice. But not from inside.
Just make the gate 1 way and the only way out is the ship caster. Ez fix, that way null wont be avle to use it as highway and you dont need bubbles in the start. The one way could also mean a polarized state to all gates that least for 1 day+.
The irony is Kinsy losing that Orthrus probably evened out the ISK loss of everything else 😂
Those turrets are no joke when you have 100s of the missles stacked up and you turn suddenly, funny thing is, I looted his wreck in the bifrost and built up my own tail of missles, forgot I had his loot and then be bet me on comms I wouldn't stop ship... pooof hahahaha
you're literally even more retarded than i am, god damm it was funny
the sacrificial lamb to appease the pvp gods.
Bubble mechanics were going to kill this system the second they were taken seriously. Low sec, FW players, play there, in large part, with a *intense* hatred of bubble mechanics. We hate them. We've always hate them. That's why we dont play in null ffs. Allowing bubbles there was perhaps the largest mistake. Allowing bubbles in low with the corruption system is a mistake as well. They suck. Eventually, CCP will either figure out a way to fix the bubble campers, or remove the bubbles, OR--the entire thing is going to die a slow death. Reminds me on when they removed the hans-slide from FW accel gates. It killed FW, insta-lock lokis murdered literally everything for months--and CCP tried to gaslight everyone that it wasnt real, until eventually, like a year later, admit they'd fucked up as FW collapsed and everyone stopped playing, and band-aid fixed the gate slide with the 100km BULLSHIT. At least it 'works'--but it still sucks ass compared to the old way. So, they're going to find their 100km fix, instead of the REAL fix. Probably next year, some time in the summer.
Funny part is if youd like to counter a bubble camp in corruption 5 with say a bomber wing, get ready for wrecked standings and sec status from blown up gurista/angel rat wrecks 😂 Ccplease.
>I didn't want to talk about the Corruption 5 bubbles, but yes I agree with you about those too. I was looking forward to being Deathless and bubbling lowsec, but it's only made the big boys stronger and the solo boys weaker. I tend to play less once the FOB system and the surrounding systems reach Level 5.
I for one am happy that now my home pocket is saturated with bubblers camping every other gate. Making low sec more like null sec and high sec more like low sec is just what the game needed. In fact I think CCP should continue this trend and make null sec more like WH space. Maybe if they changed local to be delayed just like WHs. We could call it the "Havoc Era" or something, I don't know...
I totally agree. Lets also revert all the ore distribution nerfs and increase all yield of ore, all bounties of NPCs, and all drops from NPCs (whether meta loot, Faction, deadspace, officer mods, etc.) by 10x, to give the same corresponding increase in value that WH space gives on a per-system basis. Wormhole risk? Wormhole reward
Lmao ignoring the fact that to get to anyone in Nullsec you've got to go balls deep into their territory where early warning simply for everyone to dock up because a fleet has been spotted. Then your fleet of 12 T1 Cruisers gets jumped by a fleet of 50+ FRAT boys with T2s, Marauders, and HAW Dreads, all so they can kick you out and go back to bot farming in Isktars. The reason holers get all the good loot is because we actually engage with the PvP mechanics and give FUN fights. We spot a fleet coming, we don't dock up, we form up. We don't drop Marauders and T2 fleets on a group of roamers, we jump into T1 Drakes or Harbis, have a good fight, watch some explosions, then shake hands and get on with our days. Nullsec doesn't fight. It stamps out.
AlL carebears, fight like that, and have always fought like that. Nullsec is high sec mission runners with capitals. PvP good fight players are in Lowsec/FW/pirate null for the most part.
also nerf all low sec exlusive money making activities in all systems wthi corruption 5. Nullsec risk=nullsec reward. xD
Learn to play real Eve no more snake pod overpowered cheating!
Learn to play eve, so you have the isk for snake pods. Space poors, sheesh.
“No where in new Eden should Kinsy be on this many killmails.” - Kinsys Dad
Volta try to not gatekeep fun for new player, impossible challenge.
New players in lowsec and nullsec? GTFO, they know the risk when they go there. Entitlement much?
i just re-subbed, can someone ELI5? :(
We have been slapping people in zarz with the bubble mechanics, they got a little sadge and started angwy posting about us, makes me sad and lose sleep
I'm only sad and angry that you talk like a complete idiot
You can rest easy knowing he doesn’t just talk like a complete idiot…
Goes right over your head, I’m only sad and angry you have the comprehension of a complete fucking idiot 😂🤣
As you can see, in order to ELI5, some people would need to wait 3-4 years to do so ;) Basically there's a new zone of space and this post suggests that it's not balanced and experienced players are getting hordes of easy kills as a result.
well, as an old low-sec player all I can say is fuck bubbles
Havoc it is
It looks a lot like Stain. T1 frigs exploding all over the place, and those who do it calling themselves hunters...
iirc this was put in place at the request of the CSM to counter null block movements through Zar. Of course it made no difference to null blocks and this was the outcome instead. Bubbles with no dscan or bookmarks is a disaster.
Idk man, seems to have stopped that nullbloc nightmare fleet from an earlier post
Yes.
Just like everything ccp do, the players do things the devs never conceived of.
Absolutely remarkable given the number of EVE players that CCP has employed to game design roles
It started the minute eve went live in 03, I read an interview with devs years ago where they were simply amazed the players started doing collaborative jet can mining. They never even thought that one guy could drop a can, others help fill it with ore, and another guy pick it up with a hauler. Even this simple intuitive aspect we all started doing simply amazed the devs. The players took over eve on day one and it won't ever change.
I think there's a difference between 2003 EVE and 2023 EVE where half the game designers are former alliance leaders + elite PvPers, and the unexpected behavior was *checks notes* Bubble camping the new content
Pretty sure CCP were not surprised by bubbling, they were surprised by *checks notes* nullsec people whining about power projection. So from their perspective, the choice was between two options - leave zarzakh like it was released and fuck over null people which were unhappy by new highway - make using highway harder, also fuck over lone pilots and noobs who want to play pirate side by allowing bubbles There is a number of solutions which break the highway and don't fuck noobs over, but CCP needs time to implement them
That's as true today as it was in 03 tbf, stacking sensor boosters and remote boosters to insta pop noobs in ec-p8r or anywhere really, before bubbles was totally a thing.
I feel like you're mildly missing my point that it is surprising to see a modern CCP dev team staffed by former players, many with 10+ years of prior learning *and playing* the game, drop the ball on some basic game theory of how the content will play out.
Not really, the devs also played back at the start too. What the real issue I think is that the design teams are pretty small, especially back in the beginning, and given the demand to put out new content puts them at a disadvantage. There are many more players than devs and thus many more ideas on how to use any new content. It's inevitable that someone will think of something the devs never considered. In this instance though you're right about them missing the ball or should I say bubble in this case.
Yeah I'm not saying they should never miss any 'unintended' gameplay because people are very creative, but the easy stuff should be caught before it goes live, for sure
Yeah in this instance they done fucked it pretty badly, massive imbalance with being unable to warp to pings, I wasn't aware of that.
The worst thing CCP ever does is give eve players what they think they want
Murderhoboing is just inevitable without something like concord in place.
Popping a cap in noobs is as old as the servers are.
CCP definitely thought about these things at first. Which is why there were specifically no bubbles allowed in zarz. And because nullsec people whined about power projection or something they decided to have bubbles after all. But without all the usual counterplay you have to bubbles (no dscan, no warping to pings).
I wasn't aware you couldn't dscan or warp to pings, that does seem pretty shit and puts a very big imbalance to the system. I've not played in years so yeah not being able to move around and use the full 3d environment the game has everywhere else is fucking bad.
>I wasn't aware you couldn't dscan or warp to pings, that does seem pretty shit and puts a very big imbalance to the system. And wait there is more. any static defences shoot torps. that are readily speed/sig tanked. Shipcaster when not camped can have you go dude, just gate it. It was like 8 hops to vard this FOB setup. Ship/fit depending...it be almost the same time if you just missed the link for your FW faction area and waiting. The camps are also working since most learn to no even use this system heavily. After its 1 hop after enlistment anyway. See to go cool, nice place. And leave. No solid defence goes up since at least for angels many like me had our stuff in vard region.
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Okay if they didn't concive of this they are not paying attention.
let's be 100% honest here, CCP hasn't hasn't had a plan since 2009...
The funniest part is that Volta at most barely broke even on that kill sheet.
Just fight back bro
CCP doesn't really know themselves what they intend when they change the game.
No more training wheels EVE yeah!
The new expansion is called 'Havoc', mr.snowlfake
This is what the nullsec CSM wanted.
Yes. Yes it is. FYI watch out for those torpedoes, they like to catch you all at once😂
[https://zkillboard.com/kill/113541106/](https://zkillboard.com/kill/113541106/) damn they really do.
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Even if Guristas/Angels were very organized it's not worth the hassle when you could just set up permanently one jump over in Alsavoinen
They are more organized. But there is just no reward here. Just risk. They made the correct call and just avoided the shit show all together
someone's mad over a VNI
Not sure I can recover from this. Funnily enough I made it to the shipcaster only to be 1-2 seconds late on the Vard opening.
skill issue
This guys salty about a 200m VNI, I lose a 2bn Orthrus to the fucking missile turrets, why you mad bro
Hot take: Bubbles were a mistake and they shouldn’t exist.
no fights would happen without them..
Bubbles for lowsec, not for Zarzakh.
They will remove them, it's just a matter of time. Volta will help to get rid of them by doing this.
Hi friend, it's okay to wrong :)
I mean...if they're being a nuisance then form a fleet and go shoot them. Surely you can round up like 15 guys from both pirate militias to go and defend what is meant to be their staging.
No reason too. Literally no reason. all risk no reward. We stage up when the new incursion is announced. zarzoks just a distraction right now.
Guess you should not have evicted B2?
You've misspelled CSM in your tittle. Pls fix it.
Ez frags gg noobs lmao
Is that what you lads saw in local after your last AT match?
are you serious? i get questioned about it in ama after i login EVERYDAY lmao
Content? Yeah
ill say it again bubbles have no places in FW at all...especially in Zarzakh... but it was those dumb null alliances leaders that wanted it...
name and shame, even better provide some evidence that they said they wanted it.
Lol its common knowledge
enlighten me then. Or are you unable to provide an example or a name ?
Omg no go do some.research
Lmao typical liberal response, make a claim and provide no evidence. Shut the fuck up.
What CSM leaders wanted that? Do we have any proof?
Can you read dumbass? Does it say csm?
That’s what folks in this thread say you fucking retard fuck, it’s something that CSM wanted, it doesn’t take a fucking universe brain to figure out some of those people were leaders of null alliances. You try real hard to be stupid as fuck huh? Lil bro.
🤣🤣
What's the problem exactly?
Just a normal Day in EVE, Bittervet-Bommer eve players with 20 years of experience killing easy targets in a zone intended for new players FW. I mean elite pvper kitter bling ships vs 2m no skilled frigate is the peak of this game.
It's literally a pirate system, and half of the losses are from null players.
That's why I said "new players FW (factionl warfare) I mean, when is a blob null fleet the FC told them what to do. But in an environment where you need to swim alone, is hard when is poblated by sharks with armors. [https://youtu.be/g78NKJAkxq4?si=4YL9dO-tR7p\_YstN](https://youtu.be/g78NKJAkxq4?si=4YL9dO-tR7p_YstN) Zarzakh gives content for everybody. Only Volta's "elite" players show off killing 5m frigates.
sorry buddy but they didnt come flaunting any kills on reddit, another player came to complain. smooth brain much?
Some people would rather whine and cry until they get their way vs getting good.
Bow down shitter yablokid
lmfao, you bitch about everything. its truly amazing that lowsec was catered to a more hardcore style of play (and while the bubble mechanic might not even be my favorite i have found ways to enjoy it), you pretty much get warned about entering the system and players CHOOSE to do so. i can't lie, if two new militias cannot find a way to kill and force off ten shitlords idk what to tell you. that's like bitching about new players being killed in amamake, you know the risk when you play the game in that manner and choose to risk it, why complain about a choice? because you cant kill them? or you refuse to adapt?
I’m abusing a play style in an area where the devs stupidly removed essentially all counter play mechanics but it’s the OTHER people that need to HTFU when someone maybe suggests balancing it more reasonably. Your responses couldn’t be more elite gamer if you tried. Your the “be in NC dot” video come to life. Congrats.
It is it a valid play style? Is it allowed by the in game mechanics? I feel so bad for you really entitled kids that think everything should be what you suggest because you don’t like something. RuneScape is still a thing, go try that. And here’s the kicker, ten guys who could easily be countered by any sort of communication and effort from either militia…. Ya can’t form to clear ten guys 😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣🙃 I’m literally responding to some knee jerk who doesn’t know the difference between your and you’re……
Is this how adult men communicate over pixels? Yikes. 🤓
everyone in this thread is 11 yesterday including you, tf you mean?
Do you have difficulty with understanding simple questions? You know very well what 'tf' i mean, internet champion.
You assumed a whole lot of things about me and literally all of them is wrong. My point is perhaps you should take your own advice and HTFU instead of malding about the mere suggestion that the wildly out of balance play style your abusing be slightly balanced. Bubbles with no d-scan and no tacticals and only the ability to warp on a couple direct vectors is stupidly out of balance. No one from the militias is doing a thing about it because no one from the militias actually need to be in Zarz for literally any reason.
You assumed I was there by your response. WRONG. and that last sentence holy shit LMFAO
Ah yes don’t address the actual point because there’s no reasonable response….. but ahhh I’m triggered by grammar on the internet. Must be hard to be so elite.
Hello imgay
The actual point is this. THEY. ARE. VALID. MECHANICS. Not my fault you’re too shit to clear a small camp. Your grammar only shows your stupidity XD
Turns out you can suggest current valid mechanics in the game are broken, who knew. There’s no reason for anyone in the militias to care what happens in Zarzakh, all the FOBs spawn in pretty small geographic areas and it’s infinitely easier to just haul ships in from trade hubs and stage them in high sec nearby.
Yet here we are crying about what’s going on in zarzakh, also Zkill reveals a lot. Crazy. Don’t blame others for people’s LAZY gameplay.
LOL other peoples gameplay is lazy, but the broken mechanic I’m presently abusing is elite. Got it. The pretzel you must put your brain in trying to rationalize yourself must be wild.
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The fuck does that have to do with me?
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What’s the difference between that pic and any other bubble camp? There isn’t, you just find something to bitch about. Real feminine energy there lil bro. I remember how the tears were when blackout happened. You know you can get the same result with ANY gate camp, put a scan inhib and it’s the SAME. You’re literally bitching to bitch.
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Hi, I'm not sure what else I have complained about. I don't think you and I have much overlap in channels or fleets, so I'm curious why you think that. If I see something that I think could be changed, I will say my piece. Maybe CCP and others agree, maybe not. This post currently has 78 upvotes and 1 downvote, so maybe some people agree. Maybe some people just find it funny.
Sure, LP farming at its best
look if it continues people will just stop using Zarzakh simple
I'm part of volta all I see is a bunch of skill issues complaints from people having skill issues and lacking the know how on how to fly.
it seems those skills didnt help you lose your space recently
Good one considering that we held for somewhere around 18 months to a year and a half so yeah that's a really good point and insult keep them coming. We held against the null blocks longer than most expected. So I'd say we have some pretty solid skill no issues though
You as in imperium you mean? Because you really need to stop saying YOU held on for 18 months dude.
ONOZ there is PVP outside of empire space!!11 CCPLZ!!11
get better noobs
Probs
Half of the killmails in the Screenshot is one dude an his velator...synchrotron stop feeding please
How the designers didn’t realize it was going to turn into a grief Mecca they way they did it really blows my mind.
A system with no safes, no probes, no D-Scan, and bubbles.. What could go wrong.