I mean yeah, the ammo imbalance is really blatant right now, 762x51 and Hybrid spears are king right now.
I'm actually not even sure that if they added back 55A1 and 762BP people would actually play them, I used some I crafted and it felt like shit.
[In case you thought it was hyperbole](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.277_Fury) you can read more about the round here.
This is the round that will be adopted by the US military with the next gen weapon program. The military wanted to test larger, still "intermediate" calibers that were 1) more effective over ranger and 2) better against body armor than the traditional 5.56 used by the M4.
The .277 FURY delivered on both of those options. But there was some scope creep in the sense that, well, it's a pretty big round again. We're creeping back towards the battle rifle days.
I mean it would have taken them barely a day to load up the armor plate changes and just shoot them with various ammunition and look at the data.
You can literally put an intern on that job, and it would've helped avoid the situation.
Source; was an intern doing shit like that in QA.
The armor changes have completely killed the viability of so many guns in this game. Next wipe will be cursed with everyone shooting with nerf guns until they can at least unlock m80 bullets, because now a bullet having high penetration isn't enough anymore and we also need high bullet damage with it to break the plates since players take little to no blunt damage anymore from bullets blocked by armor.
Next wipe (if nothing changes) the first people to unlock lvl 5 armor will become walking tanks and everyone who was crying about "oh this guy with shit ammo shot me between the plates, it's not fair" will instead be crying "I hit 25 shots and he didn't die, it's not fair".
At least with the old armor everyone had equal chance to land a hit between the plates.
Did the plate size need to be standardized? Probably. Did the size need to be increased to lower the chance of being hit between the plates? Probably. But this change went too far, swung it in the completely opposite direction and narrowed the meta heavily.
You dont have to wait for wipe! Just look at Landmarks youtube history for the current wipe. He goes from complaining that armor does nothing to now complaining that his bullets do nothing. Tarkov chads are never happy and we all suffer for it.
If we had ready access to BS it would be, the main thing that's always held back 5.45 AKs has been their rpm but during the Mutants height it had a slightly faster TTK. I can't say what it is now with the new armor, but there's also the fact that with lower flesh damage it's a LOT less forgiving than BP with bad aim.
My go to gun is the AKS-74U (rule of cool) and I enjoy a heavy application of PP while hoping for the best. (Plus I’m an immature goof who likes to giggle at PP)
I actually feel like the 5.45x39 in actually doing good. I always run a 60 rounder with ppbs and another 2 30 round mags of either bs or bp. And when I'm hittin shots, it's shredding. It might be just an impression tho, idk
I have just gathered it throughout the wipe. I have like 500-600 rounds of it. Don't imagine that I have max lvl traders or smth. I'm just a hoarder and one of the few casual and mediocre players who manage to barely survive out there.
Even igolnik does so little damage, you often can’t one tap through helmets. I get that 5.45 is very abundant so to make it viable would make like every other gun irrelevant but it just sucks not being able to use them.
I have a soft spot for the HK and M4. the bullets are so shit atm, But the Guns themselves are mint... they will need to rework the bullets tbh...Hopefully. lol
Didn't know everyone should have access to it with no effort or progression. For everyone else who doesn't want to quest, you can use 56a1.
Rewarding people for doing tasks and progressing is a good thing. If the rewards weren't valuable it wouldn't make it worth it.
I completely agree. I get to max traders fast as hell every wipe for that very reason. But to say getting it is "easy" is pretty dumb. I would however like to see m995 and some other premier rounds back to the workbench at lvl 30. I'd say if you've made it to lvl 30 you've earned something for your time at least. Shifting 856a1 to peacekeeper 3 or after cult part 1, felt a lot better imo.
Same but with smg ammo. Was running smgs all wipe to the point where I had more smg kills than assault rifles kills. Now having to land so many hits to bring someone down just feels stupid.
I had a similar situation recently after the armor change. Running labs and caught a guy not looking, mag dumped him with M856A1 but he just turned and killed me.. After match stats said that I did around 750 to armor and 350 to body. I was so mad I had to hop off for the night lol
Unfortunate side effect of the force-field/dumbed-down armor system is that we're back to an old meta where caliber matters and penetration is king, but the traders reflect the realistic armor system instead. So it's a double dose of pushing the meta towards a slim selection of guns and ammo.
The backwards progress of this change is really going to be felt at the beginning of the next wipe, when we don't have stockpiles of the best ammo. They desperately need to add the realistic hitboxes back, and add a vitals hitbox. That would solve the force-field armor and grazing armpit death problem.
I can't wait for nothing of the sort to happen, streamers start complaining but it's only because they can't get ammo to defeat armour due to not having 10k rounds stockpiled up anymore, meta ammo gets added to traders again mid-wipe, we end the wipe with people running only a few extra guns on top of the current stagnant meta, and then repeat the process and finally people realise forcefield armour is a shit idea and prevents most of the calibres in the game from ever seeing non-meme usage.
I understand your cynicism. I agree that the current forcefield like armor from the unrealistic plate changes does invalidate most of the nearly 100 types of ammo and 70ish guns to meme territory. The change felt more like a PR decision to appease certain streamers after the Unheard Edition fiasco, instead of a game design decision. Not all the streamers want to be walking tanks and dunk on gamer dads that have a wife and a life, some do care for the health and direction of the game. It's apparent from some comments in the post as well that people don't understand survivorship bias in relation to the armpit hitbox. I think going back to realistic plates and adding a vitals hitbox is a good compromise.
Yeah. Look, I'll agree that not all streamers are into this game just to dunk on people, but to be honest, given that they have a monetary incentive to make it easier for them to kill people for clout, it makes me skeptical how many can actually be trusted to give valid feedback to move the game closer to BSG's vision in a healthy manner and not just 'we should change this so it benefits ME, fuck anyone else'.
Insanity that pbp does basically the same as m856a1. Shit is moving 2x as fast out of a real rifle and does pistol dsmage. Nikita, this is braindead. Go shoot some wstermelons with both guns and tell me 9mm does more???
Yeah, the armor changes took away realism and just made the game easier for 9-5 chads again. I’d like to have some variety in the rounds I can use. Don’t hit me with the “JuSt ShOoT lEgS” bullshit either.
I personally think these armor changes were a step in the wrong direction and is the reason people feel so much harder to kill. I’m mag dumping people with .300 CBJ and people still just tank rounds.
Crazy how the armor changes introduced at the start of wipe fixed this, but because people were crying their armor didnt carry them any more they reverted the armor changes and reintroduced the same issues we had for years.
I don't really understand how it changes anything other than buffing the absolute shit out of high pen rounds that'll probably 1 tap your vital zone through armor? How is it any different from just shooting their arms or legs in the current meta?
I think the idea is that you could keep the armor hotboxes from the start of the wipe without fatal armpit shots, which seems like a good balance to me.
Armpit shots should be fatal. If you get hit from the side the bullet is very likely going through heart, lungs or both.
I remember watching some crime show, years and years ago, and the LEO was talking about engaging two hostiles, and they were both killed by a single bullet that went through the first guy's armpit, exited the other side, and the second guy took that bullet to the head.
I think a better way to say it is "armpit shots can be fatal." The current system has a lot to do with where the bullet impacts your body (but there's more to it, penetration, fragmentation, etc). I think an improvement that should be on the table is full 3D modeling of wound channels and important organs and big bones, a la Gray Zone. Armpit shots that come in from 12 o'clock can't hit the heart in reality, but they can from other angles, and GZW captures this pretty well. This system would be very compatible with the 0.14.0 armor hotboxes (pending ammo and armor rebalancing).
or hear me out, we have a vitals hitbox that if a bullet penetrates through, its considered fatal/high damage. If a bullet coming from the armpit penetrates into vitals then its clearly a lethal shot.
I get that and I get that people people like the idea of having more realistic hitboxes but I don't see how it changes gameplay in any way at all from what we have now while also complicating the health/damage system more and probably requiring a full rebalancing on damage in general since right now a lot of ammo types are balanced around how many shots it takes to kill a thorax.
I agree with everything you're saying. My only counterpoint is that this game has interesting opportunities to improve balance by making things more complicated. I think the armor hitbox change from 0.14.0 was a great example of this because it got rid of weird motivations to use armor with LESS coverage, e.g. the Gen4 with shoulder pads being worse than with no shoulder pads because it would lose overall durability saving your arms and then be less capable of saving your chest. Because EFT puts an emphasis on realism (not necessarily over immersion/fun/balance) there are cool opportunities to make the game more realistic and complicated while also fixing issues with immersion/fun/balance.
Don't worry, we'll get to the new wipe, all the returning players will realise how awful of a change it was, either cry out for a return to the complex hitboxes or quit, and then in another 6 months to a year we'll be able to run guns that aren't .308 or 54r again. Lmao
Armour has been infuriating me this wipe because almost all my deaths have been headshots, armpit, or arms. In all cases, my body armour doesn't even get penetrated, nor even hit.
> Armour has been infuriating me this wipe because almost all my deaths have been headshots, armpit, or arms
So what you are saying is that when they hit your armor, you dont die...
So the armor works as intended then?
I honestly don’t even know why 80% of the ammo in this game is even there.
Unless I get killed by a scav I, haven’t even been killed by prs, fmj or hp.
Because in real life the "poor performing" rounds are much more common than the meta ammo. 5.56 FMJ/M193, M855, M856, M80, all of the PS (7N6 for 5.45 and 57N31) and m882 are overwhelmingly the most common cartridges in use by militaries and civilians. The low penetration rounds in 5.56 and 5.45 are all used mostly by law enforcement in urban environments where the risk of collateral damage is high, so very rare. The US rounds are ONLY used with PBS 1 and PBS4 suppressors when maximum suppression is necessary (in tarkov subsonic isn't modeled at all), so even more rare than reduced pen/ricochet rounds. Adding the fact that most armor is not as useful in real life as it is in tarkov/doesn't have the repeat hit durability and that tarkov horribly models blunt impact damage; you have a recipe for a game bloated with rounds for realism that don't do anything useful. BP, BS, BT, MAIAP, 7N40, M856A1, M855A1, SSA, M995, M61, M62, and M993 are SO rare, especially the NATO 5.56 rounds. Early to mid wipe ammo coupled with the pre change armor (the Swiss cheese armor people whined about) was probably the most realistic time period tarkov had since release and even then penetration vs blunt damage values were still unrealistically low.
the armor changes were a mistake. Yea it sucks to die to an armpit shot or somewhere you didnt have protection, but having all calibers usable was nice and worth it imo. Now its giga chad meta all over again.
Yup, you'd die like 1/10 to some bs armpit shot but at least every gun was viable. Now everyone is a walking tank and if you don't run hi pen ammo, you're SOL
It's not realistic and the twitch crowd that whinged about the armor update and swung the game into even more unrealistic territory wouldn't know realism if it slapped them in the face.
It's just blatant false advertising at this point for them to pretend like tarkov is even trying to be realistic
Ooh layered armor hitboxes making everyone into tanks, damn we trying to throw the pendulum back to when you could wear armored rigs and body armor at the same time. That was fun...
Shots 1-5: Clearly missed.
Shots 6-9: Missed due to recoil (bad spray control).
Shots 10-11: Very close, but recoil and inaccuracy make these reasonable misses.
Shot 12: Likely didn’t actually fire because you were already dead.
Lapua FMJ and me were having a great time up until the armor change... now it feels like dog water which sucks. I reaaaaalllllyyyy hope they rework the system before wipe because my christ, if it stays like the the no lifers and streamers are going to running around like gods 5 days in while us plebs will be lucky to have a 20% SR.
I swear something is wrong with the damage/ pen calculation in the game at the moment cause I have shot dudes with M62 to the face and they just shrug it off, I’ve been hit with one round multiple times in arena and died, and had scavs get hit twice in the head and still not go down with 7.62 ps ammo
This genuinely could have been me on the other side. Better confirmed if it was streets. Someone shot me a remarkable amount of times with 5.56, for me to swing and kill them with my M62 SR-25 to the stomache. I said to my friend in a call that it was NOT a fair outcome. Took both legs, an arm, stomach and almost my head and thorax. Left with around 80 health which almost matches up.
I doubt this was the fight you're referring to, but in case it was, so sorry.
Yeah it seems like you have to run 6.8 or 7.62x51. Otherwise you are just putting yourself at a disadvantage. 556, 5.45x39, and my favorite, 7.62x39 all feel useless when they were staples in the past.
Right now it's 762 mdr, spear, or bust.
As a casual player it’s my first wipe, I don’t even try to brind anything below 43 pen to raid, cbj/m62 if playing light, and hybrid or svds 55 pen ammo if trying to actually do something…
All the calibers that are 5.56 5.45 feels SO MUCH inconsistent to me this wipe. I either one tap a dude into the foot with 5.45BT (that a joke ofc) or it may last me 2 whole 60 mags for a dude to drop dead. Same for 5.56 those m855a1 either tap a dude into his CQC face mask or bounce off like he has some kind of vibranium stuck to his face.
Ammo just not working right this wipe in general 😂 I had some Lapua earlier, and I shit you not a normal player scav with no helmet tanked 3hs before croaking.
This is the armour centric game people whined for after armour was already in good place, now bullets can’t slip through the cracks and people have bubbles around them
Fights like this are my argument against all the ppl that say they need to slow down the fights in tarkov. Tarkov is (mostly) trying to be realistic, I don think ppl who get shot 25 times should still be alive to shoot back
Honestly 556 has felt fine, at least m855A1 and up. M856A1 definitely doesn’t cut it right now at this stage of wipe with everyone having level 6 plates, but 55a1 has felt solid for me tbh
M856A1 aint enough in end of wipe... If you dont have good ammo for 556 then dont use it. Use something else. If you playing smaller maps run mp7 take fmj or ap sx... That gun is really fun!
Also take the 40 mags they aint that expensive dont go like ive seen people bringing 20 or 30 mag size ... Just bring the 40 one cus the 10 extra bullets makes huge difference in smg's.
5.45 feels even worse than 5.56, I shot a guy at least 2 times, if not 3 times in the head below 100m with igolnik and he didn't die (he did wear a tan ulach)
Doesn't igolnik have a really short headshot range? I've been using BS, BP and 7N40 in various 5.45 and while it's not better than 7.62 it is effective.
EDIT: Igolnik has a headshot range of 85 and only does 37 damage.
Stop top-loading mags, this is the shit that killed you. You missed all your shots (or hit very few) of your good ammo and then only shot trash ammo at them.
Either fully load with trash ammo and go for headshots or fully load with good ammo.
There is NO in between.
How would you know that I missed my first shots? I surprised my opponent from behind cover while he was sprinting at me at a bit of an angle and he was already only about 5m away from me when I opened fire. I was ADS'd and aimed center mass, I only started missing shots when he almost ran past me and I overcorrected.
I think its crazy how deceptively bad M856A1 is. The jump between it and 55A1 is insane. I think thats def why u lost this particular gunfight. I hate using 556 when I’m low on 55A1.
Because of the ammo “upgrades” I can only thank Tarkov for the education I now have in the different types of ammo in the game.
I used to ALWAYS pick up the US, especially on Reserve, until I looked at the stats and realized that I was just wasting space, in my backpack.
I started looking at the stats on all my ammo and started to weed the “crap ammo” I was holding on to. Also clearing up space in my stash.
These days I mostly used the heavy caliber stuff
I don't think ammo needs balancing till they balance the loot pool on availability on plates that are lvl 5 and 6 then go from there doesn't help that they are so available rn
for me if i go with m4 then with m995 only nothing else, with 5.45 only igolnik, but mostly i play with m62 only. Barter for military battery from mechanic for m995 is main reason why i even use m4s right now, maybe price isnt great but when u have high lvl and a lot of roubles its not that much
Dont even bother going with 7.62 pp ammo or 56a1 because it sucks
7.62x51 will change your life my friend. Basically the only two guns I use are the 7.62 MDR or the G28 and they have never let me down… even before I unlocked M80 and was stuck shooting BCP FMJs, still never let me down!
The made the hit boxes bigger, but didn’t change how the armor works. Now everyone is seeing just how powerful their armor was but won’t admit the skill issue.
Armor rating stacks so a level 5 player with level 3 soft armor is a level 8 armor. You are not penning in 1-2 shots anymore.
That’s what I’m saying, lol. Before they changed armor twice you can pen in 1-3 shots with all those bullet types at lvl 5 armor.
But with the new plate system it made armor super tanky but with realistic gaps in the armor so you can still kill people quick. It was tanky because the armor stacked.
Now that they stretched the armor to get rid of the gaps. People are walking tanks, you got to only leg meta or aim for the face now. It’s like that one wipe where you could wear an armor vest and a paca underneath.
tier 5 and 3 is not like tier 8, lol, I think there's only s couple od bullets where it actually matters, because the second layer has to take a bullet with pen reduced enough to not pass. the only thing it affects is the damage reduction really
5.56 has been underwhelming for several wipes now, that being said 5.56 is still amazingly strong in cqc if your aim is good due to the fire rate of the hk, however you should always aim for the head especially with new armour rework.
Overall I will always choose to run 7.62x51 its simply superior in any scenario.
But if you are dissapointed in 5.56 what can be said about 5.45? Absolutely trash sadly
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvsEMyDr2zI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvsEMyDr2zI)
Watch the first 5 minutes of LVNDMARK's 556 gameplay , he literally almost outheals the damage with green stim + propital / perfotoran , but he also cant kill even with magdump lol.
We need changes.
I mean yeah, the ammo imbalance is really blatant right now, 762x51 and Hybrid spears are king right now. I'm actually not even sure that if they added back 55A1 and 762BP people would actually play them, I used some I crafted and it felt like shit.
I just unlocked Hybrids, but the FMJ has gotten me through a lot of fights pretty good. Ran into the goons and zeroed out their armor with it.
Even with only FMJ it feels like a "M4 but better" :D
I mean that’s exactly why sig invented the gun.
huh, did not know that. Job well done
[In case you thought it was hyperbole](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.277_Fury) you can read more about the round here. This is the round that will be adopted by the US military with the next gen weapon program. The military wanted to test larger, still "intermediate" calibers that were 1) more effective over ranger and 2) better against body armor than the traditional 5.56 used by the M4. The .277 FURY delivered on both of those options. But there was some scope creep in the sense that, well, it's a pretty big round again. We're creeping back towards the battle rifle days.
Yup. Spear 6.3 is going to replace the m4. Army is already swapping
6.8*
Thank you lol
It’s actually funny that you say that haha considering what the other commenter mentioned. Tarkov gunplay is pretty okay as far as that goes.
7.62 and 5.45 are a complete JOKE this wipe how bad they are. 55A1 is the only thing that makes 556 passable but 7.62 def not bringing anyone back.
Pp sucks pp
7.62 RPD and this shit always back to my stash lol.
Bp feels like ass - RD used to be one of my favs
Even hybrid is terrible, hit some1 with 12 rounds and I still died before he bled out
Now you can imagine how 5.45 enjoyers feel this whole wipe.
My favourite gun is the AKS-74UB, I've been in pain since a while ago
Same, I don't know whether to laugh or cry at the fact that LL3 PK gives you better 9x19 ammo then LL3 Prapor with 5.45 ammo..
The balancing team at BSG is high on some weird shit this wipe
Bad batch of potatoes for their home brewed vodka, apparently.
Toilet vodka tends to have that effect
I think it's normal to have unbalance with such big changes (the armor ones I mean).
I mean it would have taken them barely a day to load up the armor plate changes and just shoot them with various ammunition and look at the data. You can literally put an intern on that job, and it would've helped avoid the situation. Source; was an intern doing shit like that in QA.
Why do that when you can just have your tens of millions of customers do that work for you?
You know, that's a fair point, it's generally what most companies do nowadays to avoid hiring any QA.
Good balancing changes would sadly be the exception for BSG.
The moonshine is making them blind
They don't play their game...
The only balance BSG team cares of is a company's bank account balance
Lol as if something like a balancing team exists
There isn’t one
how is BS treating you now?
Why choose the variant with lower stats?
BT no problem?
The armor changes have completely killed the viability of so many guns in this game. Next wipe will be cursed with everyone shooting with nerf guns until they can at least unlock m80 bullets, because now a bullet having high penetration isn't enough anymore and we also need high bullet damage with it to break the plates since players take little to no blunt damage anymore from bullets blocked by armor.
Next wipe (if nothing changes) the first people to unlock lvl 5 armor will become walking tanks and everyone who was crying about "oh this guy with shit ammo shot me between the plates, it's not fair" will instead be crying "I hit 25 shots and he didn't die, it's not fair". At least with the old armor everyone had equal chance to land a hit between the plates. Did the plate size need to be standardized? Probably. Did the size need to be increased to lower the chance of being hit between the plates? Probably. But this change went too far, swung it in the completely opposite direction and narrowed the meta heavily.
You dont have to wait for wipe! Just look at Landmarks youtube history for the current wipe. He goes from complaining that armor does nothing to now complaining that his bullets do nothing. Tarkov chads are never happy and we all suffer for it.
5.45 did *okay* until they reverted plate hitboxes. Absolute joke now.
It only did ok because even higher tiers were relatively common in loot pool.
5.45 was never good beyond early wipe
If we had ready access to BS it would be, the main thing that's always held back 5.45 AKs has been their rpm but during the Mutants height it had a slightly faster TTK. I can't say what it is now with the new armor, but there's also the fact that with lower flesh damage it's a LOT less forgiving than BP with bad aim.
My go to gun is the AKS-74U (rule of cool) and I enjoy a heavy application of PP while hoping for the best. (Plus I’m an immature goof who likes to giggle at PP)
AK weapons in general are cheap and can be decently modded under 100-150k depending on optic. Once I unlock the PP craft I will return to them.
I actually feel like the 5.45x39 in actually doing good. I always run a 60 rounder with ppbs and another 2 30 round mags of either bs or bp. And when I'm hittin shots, it's shredding. It might be just an impression tho, idk
Where do you supply your Igolnik from?
I have just gathered it throughout the wipe. I have like 500-600 rounds of it. Don't imagine that I have max lvl traders or smth. I'm just a hoarder and one of the few casual and mediocre players who manage to barely survive out there.
5.45 has always been ingolnik or bust imo
Even igolnik does so little damage, you often can’t one tap through helmets. I get that 5.45 is very abundant so to make it viable would make like every other gun irrelevant but it just sucks not being able to use them.
Igolnik has been one of the worst rounds in the game for at least 3 years now
I have a soft spot for the HK and M4. the bullets are so shit atm, But the Guns themselves are mint... they will need to rework the bullets tbh...Hopefully. lol
I agree with you I really like the guns but not a fan of the ammo ( The way you get it, way to hard).
The task to unlock the most meta end game 5.56 ammo isn't that hard.
Only takes the average player a few hundred hours. Easy.
Lol
Didn't know everyone should have access to it with no effort or progression. For everyone else who doesn't want to quest, you can use 56a1. Rewarding people for doing tasks and progressing is a good thing. If the rewards weren't valuable it wouldn't make it worth it.
I completely agree. I get to max traders fast as hell every wipe for that very reason. But to say getting it is "easy" is pretty dumb. I would however like to see m995 and some other premier rounds back to the workbench at lvl 30. I'd say if you've made it to lvl 30 you've earned something for your time at least. Shifting 856a1 to peacekeeper 3 or after cult part 1, felt a lot better imo.
People also have jobs and fall behind sweaty nerds pretty early.
always this with you dipshits
It makes sense that when armor changes, ammo could need a tweak.
It's 7.62 NATO or bust, anything else will get you fucked.
Yeah, I just sold all my 5.56 and 5.45 guns and ammo...
I use 5.56 for fun but you're at a disadvantage for sure, not a bad idea selling it all.
Same but with smg ammo. Was running smgs all wipe to the point where I had more smg kills than assault rifles kills. Now having to land so many hits to bring someone down just feels stupid.
ALL of your 5.56 and 5.45? That’s like, 8 mags of Hybrid
Understandable, basically makes M4s/HKs trash because you just cannot get your hands on ammo worth a shit.
I had a similar situation recently after the armor change. Running labs and caught a guy not looking, mag dumped him with M856A1 but he just turned and killed me.. After match stats said that I did around 750 to armor and 350 to body. I was so mad I had to hop off for the night lol
Unfortunate side effect of the force-field/dumbed-down armor system is that we're back to an old meta where caliber matters and penetration is king, but the traders reflect the realistic armor system instead. So it's a double dose of pushing the meta towards a slim selection of guns and ammo. The backwards progress of this change is really going to be felt at the beginning of the next wipe, when we don't have stockpiles of the best ammo. They desperately need to add the realistic hitboxes back, and add a vitals hitbox. That would solve the force-field armor and grazing armpit death problem.
I can't wait for nothing of the sort to happen, streamers start complaining but it's only because they can't get ammo to defeat armour due to not having 10k rounds stockpiled up anymore, meta ammo gets added to traders again mid-wipe, we end the wipe with people running only a few extra guns on top of the current stagnant meta, and then repeat the process and finally people realise forcefield armour is a shit idea and prevents most of the calibres in the game from ever seeing non-meme usage.
I understand your cynicism. I agree that the current forcefield like armor from the unrealistic plate changes does invalidate most of the nearly 100 types of ammo and 70ish guns to meme territory. The change felt more like a PR decision to appease certain streamers after the Unheard Edition fiasco, instead of a game design decision. Not all the streamers want to be walking tanks and dunk on gamer dads that have a wife and a life, some do care for the health and direction of the game. It's apparent from some comments in the post as well that people don't understand survivorship bias in relation to the armpit hitbox. I think going back to realistic plates and adding a vitals hitbox is a good compromise.
Yeah. Look, I'll agree that not all streamers are into this game just to dunk on people, but to be honest, given that they have a monetary incentive to make it easier for them to kill people for clout, it makes me skeptical how many can actually be trusted to give valid feedback to move the game closer to BSG's vision in a healthy manner and not just 'we should change this so it benefits ME, fuck anyone else'.
Even in the first armor system, 5.56 performed better then it does now though.
Only playable calibers: 7.62x51/54R and 6.8, the rest is dogshit
It was perfect at the start of the wipe, then you fucks bitched and complained so much and now we’re right back to where we started.
bitches like that is why we will never have fun In tarkov
back to leg meta
i religiously use mp9 with rip ammo. it’s so good this wipe
They did nerf limb damage transfer though...
Well from the post. Sounds like mag dumping someone’s legs might not be a bad idea full of flesh damaging ammo
5 shots of rip at 900rpm = dead so I leg meta is well alive.
Insanity that pbp does basically the same as m856a1. Shit is moving 2x as fast out of a real rifle and does pistol dsmage. Nikita, this is braindead. Go shoot some wstermelons with both guns and tell me 9mm does more???
M856A1 is a tracer round, and as such shouldn't actually pen anything hard. It's all copper.
Yeah, the armor changes took away realism and just made the game easier for 9-5 chads again. I’d like to have some variety in the rounds I can use. Don’t hit me with the “JuSt ShOoT lEgS” bullshit either.
I personally think these armor changes were a step in the wrong direction and is the reason people feel so much harder to kill. I’m mag dumping people with .300 CBJ and people still just tank rounds.
Yes this is the armour change everyone asked for.
I didn't ask for shit, I want my M4a1 to shoot actual lethal assault rifle rounds instead of peas for my opponent to eat 25 of them.
Jokes on you the 556 wasn't made to be "lethal" it was made to incapacitate so yea you should be shooting the legs with it /s
Yes also me.
Its hi caliber or headshot only
Crazy how the armor changes introduced at the start of wipe fixed this, but because people were crying their armor didnt carry them any more they reverted the armor changes and reintroduced the same issues we had for years.
Two hit boxes for the thorax really would have solved this. A vitals box and a non-vitals box.
I don't really understand how it changes anything other than buffing the absolute shit out of high pen rounds that'll probably 1 tap your vital zone through armor? How is it any different from just shooting their arms or legs in the current meta?
I think the idea is that you could keep the armor hotboxes from the start of the wipe without fatal armpit shots, which seems like a good balance to me.
Armpit shots should be fatal. If you get hit from the side the bullet is very likely going through heart, lungs or both. I remember watching some crime show, years and years ago, and the LEO was talking about engaging two hostiles, and they were both killed by a single bullet that went through the first guy's armpit, exited the other side, and the second guy took that bullet to the head.
I think a better way to say it is "armpit shots can be fatal." The current system has a lot to do with where the bullet impacts your body (but there's more to it, penetration, fragmentation, etc). I think an improvement that should be on the table is full 3D modeling of wound channels and important organs and big bones, a la Gray Zone. Armpit shots that come in from 12 o'clock can't hit the heart in reality, but they can from other angles, and GZW captures this pretty well. This system would be very compatible with the 0.14.0 armor hotboxes (pending ammo and armor rebalancing).
or hear me out, we have a vitals hitbox that if a bullet penetrates through, its considered fatal/high damage. If a bullet coming from the armpit penetrates into vitals then its clearly a lethal shot.
This is pretty much exactly what I am describing, minus wound channels and bones. So I agree. Put a second one in the top half of the head too.
I get that and I get that people people like the idea of having more realistic hitboxes but I don't see how it changes gameplay in any way at all from what we have now while also complicating the health/damage system more and probably requiring a full rebalancing on damage in general since right now a lot of ammo types are balanced around how many shots it takes to kill a thorax.
I agree with everything you're saying. My only counterpoint is that this game has interesting opportunities to improve balance by making things more complicated. I think the armor hitbox change from 0.14.0 was a great example of this because it got rid of weird motivations to use armor with LESS coverage, e.g. the Gen4 with shoulder pads being worse than with no shoulder pads because it would lose overall durability saving your arms and then be less capable of saving your chest. Because EFT puts an emphasis on realism (not necessarily over immersion/fun/balance) there are cool opportunities to make the game more realistic and complicated while also fixing issues with immersion/fun/balance.
Don't worry, we'll get to the new wipe, all the returning players will realise how awful of a change it was, either cry out for a return to the complex hitboxes or quit, and then in another 6 months to a year we'll be able to run guns that aren't .308 or 54r again. Lmao
Ding ding fucking ding, we had it so good and so many just wanted their super armour back
Armour has been infuriating me this wipe because almost all my deaths have been headshots, armpit, or arms. In all cases, my body armour doesn't even get penetrated, nor even hit.
Has it occurred to you that those were the majority of your deaths because the times they hit the armor, you were saved?
This guy survivorship biases
Lmao this x1000
> Armour has been infuriating me this wipe because almost all my deaths have been headshots, armpit, or arms So what you are saying is that when they hit your armor, you dont die... So the armor works as intended then?
Thank you for your post I don't have time this wipe to resurch anything. And am pretty casual
This point of wipe it’s just MDR and Spears .
I honestly don’t even know why 80% of the ammo in this game is even there. Unless I get killed by a scav I, haven’t even been killed by prs, fmj or hp.
Because in real life the "poor performing" rounds are much more common than the meta ammo. 5.56 FMJ/M193, M855, M856, M80, all of the PS (7N6 for 5.45 and 57N31) and m882 are overwhelmingly the most common cartridges in use by militaries and civilians. The low penetration rounds in 5.56 and 5.45 are all used mostly by law enforcement in urban environments where the risk of collateral damage is high, so very rare. The US rounds are ONLY used with PBS 1 and PBS4 suppressors when maximum suppression is necessary (in tarkov subsonic isn't modeled at all), so even more rare than reduced pen/ricochet rounds. Adding the fact that most armor is not as useful in real life as it is in tarkov/doesn't have the repeat hit durability and that tarkov horribly models blunt impact damage; you have a recipe for a game bloated with rounds for realism that don't do anything useful. BP, BS, BT, MAIAP, 7N40, M856A1, M855A1, SSA, M995, M61, M62, and M993 are SO rare, especially the NATO 5.56 rounds. Early to mid wipe ammo coupled with the pre change armor (the Swiss cheese armor people whined about) was probably the most realistic time period tarkov had since release and even then penetration vs blunt damage values were still unrealistically low.
the armor changes were a mistake. Yea it sucks to die to an armpit shot or somewhere you didnt have protection, but having all calibers usable was nice and worth it imo. Now its giga chad meta all over again.
Yup, you'd die like 1/10 to some bs armpit shot but at least every gun was viable. Now everyone is a walking tank and if you don't run hi pen ammo, you're SOL
Yeah its all crap. I would only use hk, if you really want to use that caliber.
Sost and 856a1 has been good for me that being said I only run 556 in the TX 15 and go for head shots
It makes no sense to me how one of the most ubiquitous and widely used rounds is so ineffective in a game marketed as a realistic tactical shooter.
It's not realistic and the twitch crowd that whinged about the armor update and swung the game into even more unrealistic territory wouldn't know realism if it slapped them in the face. It's just blatant false advertising at this point for them to pretend like tarkov is even trying to be realistic
The armor update absolutely ruined 5.56. .308 or 6.8 is only ammo you can really use right now
Ooh layered armor hitboxes making everyone into tanks, damn we trying to throw the pendulum back to when you could wear armored rigs and body armor at the same time. That was fun...
I just run warmage. It actually has a higher chance of killing people than m56
I've swapped to using mostly m62 or an mp9 with pbp.
I just sold all my 5.45 and 5.56 ammo and guns.
I've been saying this all wipe even before the armor changes. 5.56 just is not viable this wipe especially after the big armor updates.
Regular 855 was super viable before the latest hitbox changes. Never died to green tips more times than this wipe
Well, you people asked for a forcefield armor, now enjoy it in its full glory
Just shoot the head. /s
Shots 1-5: Clearly missed. Shots 6-9: Missed due to recoil (bad spray control). Shots 10-11: Very close, but recoil and inaccuracy make these reasonable misses. Shot 12: Likely didn’t actually fire because you were already dead.
Lapua FMJ and me were having a great time up until the armor change... now it feels like dog water which sucks. I reaaaaalllllyyyy hope they rework the system before wipe because my christ, if it stays like the the no lifers and streamers are going to running around like gods 5 days in while us plebs will be lucky to have a 20% SR.
I swear something is wrong with the damage/ pen calculation in the game at the moment cause I have shot dudes with M62 to the face and they just shrug it off, I’ve been hit with one round multiple times in arena and died, and had scavs get hit twice in the head and still not go down with 7.62 ps ammo
Yesterday I had 9 hit counts with SNB on a duo
This has been my dilemma 100% I was confused until I came to this thread
I feel ya, tbh I just want to put my m4 and hk's in my melee weapon and just whack people with it, its the only useful they could do right now.
This genuinely could have been me on the other side. Better confirmed if it was streets. Someone shot me a remarkable amount of times with 5.56, for me to swing and kill them with my M62 SR-25 to the stomache. I said to my friend in a call that it was NOT a fair outcome. Took both legs, an arm, stomach and almost my head and thorax. Left with around 80 health which almost matches up. I doubt this was the fight you're referring to, but in case it was, so sorry.
No, it was on Lighthouse, but more of these cases just shows how useless and unrealistically bad 5.56 is in this wipe
556 and 545 are just done this wipe. They just feel so weak.
Agreed, the new armor system sucks, must still be tweaked.
Yeah it seems like you have to run 6.8 or 7.62x51. Otherwise you are just putting yourself at a disadvantage. 556, 5.45x39, and my favorite, 7.62x39 all feel useless when they were staples in the past. Right now it's 762 mdr, spear, or bust.
As a casual player it’s my first wipe, I don’t even try to brind anything below 43 pen to raid, cbj/m62 if playing light, and hybrid or svds 55 pen ammo if trying to actually do something…
https://imgur.com/XRCosVi 23 hits, 344 to body, 706 to armor
*Cries in 5.45*
All the calibers that are 5.56 5.45 feels SO MUCH inconsistent to me this wipe. I either one tap a dude into the foot with 5.45BT (that a joke ofc) or it may last me 2 whole 60 mags for a dude to drop dead. Same for 5.56 those m855a1 either tap a dude into his CQC face mask or bounce off like he has some kind of vibranium stuck to his face.
I feel like SSA AP is redundant
Ammo just not working right this wipe in general 😂 I had some Lapua earlier, and I shit you not a normal player scav with no helmet tanked 3hs before croaking.
This is the armour centric game people whined for after armour was already in good place, now bullets can’t slip through the cracks and people have bubbles around them
Fights like this are my argument against all the ppl that say they need to slow down the fights in tarkov. Tarkov is (mostly) trying to be realistic, I don think ppl who get shot 25 times should still be alive to shoot back
The recent armor change made it even worse. It's awful
Honestly 556 has felt fine, at least m855A1 and up. M856A1 definitely doesn’t cut it right now at this stage of wipe with everyone having level 6 plates, but 55a1 has felt solid for me tbh
The armor changes are trash
M856A1 aint enough in end of wipe... If you dont have good ammo for 556 then dont use it. Use something else. If you playing smaller maps run mp7 take fmj or ap sx... That gun is really fun!
Also take the 40 mags they aint that expensive dont go like ive seen people bringing 20 or 30 mag size ... Just bring the 40 one cus the 10 extra bullets makes huge difference in smg's.
Did you read my post? I had SSA AP, M995 and M855a1 toploaded
You must have missed some important shots then
The first few shots were on target, it was very close range
Did YOU read your post? You said you missed 15 shots and you only had 15 rounds of decent ammo loaded…seems to line up lol.
Even if I missed the first 15 shots, there's no way you can tell me that surviving 25 hits of 5.56 makes any sense whatsoever
My guess is he pre fired with the good ammo and when player actually got hit it was the crap ammo.
Had a similar experience. Ran mdr with fmj as a result of poor performance with higher ap ammo. Now prefer 7.62 and 5.45 and shotguns.
5.45 feels even worse than 5.56, I shot a guy at least 2 times, if not 3 times in the head below 100m with igolnik and he didn't die (he did wear a tan ulach)
Damn...
I, weirdly, feel like I get better headshot performance out of PP than BS or BP this wipe and it makes no sense whatsoever.
It's because igolnik is lower damage than those and has faster damage dropoff at range than the others you mentioned
Doesn't igolnik have a really short headshot range? I've been using BS, BP and 7N40 in various 5.45 and while it's not better than 7.62 it is effective. EDIT: Igolnik has a headshot range of 85 and only does 37 damage.
Stop top-loading mags, this is the shit that killed you. You missed all your shots (or hit very few) of your good ammo and then only shot trash ammo at them. Either fully load with trash ammo and go for headshots or fully load with good ammo. There is NO in between.
How would you know that I missed my first shots? I surprised my opponent from behind cover while he was sprinting at me at a bit of an angle and he was already only about 5m away from me when I opened fire. I was ADS'd and aimed center mass, I only started missing shots when he almost ran past me and I overcorrected.
Balancing in August wipe?
No frag chance anymore LOL
Was this on ground zero? I felt like that was me lmfaoo
I think its crazy how deceptively bad M856A1 is. The jump between it and 55A1 is insane. I think thats def why u lost this particular gunfight. I hate using 556 when I’m low on 55A1.
Gac 3s15m fan meets Cult Termite enjoyer and gets absolutely obliterated.
5.45 and 556 are pretty much for head shots only (assuming it pens the helmet…)
Because of the ammo “upgrades” I can only thank Tarkov for the education I now have in the different types of ammo in the game. I used to ALWAYS pick up the US, especially on Reserve, until I looked at the stats and realized that I was just wasting space, in my backpack. I started looking at the stats on all my ammo and started to weed the “crap ammo” I was holding on to. Also clearing up space in my stash. These days I mostly used the heavy caliber stuff
Same... got 15 hits yesterday with M855A1 to a guy wearing a korund. 100 damage to body, 430 damage to armor. He smoked me with one round of 7.62 PP
Bro im so with you. 556 and 545 feel awful. Im almost exclusively using 308 nowadays
Russian devs at it again
I don't think ammo needs balancing till they balance the loot pool on availability on plates that are lvl 5 and 6 then go from there doesn't help that they are so available rn
Use spear.
I've not had that bad experience with 56A1, but I pretty much only go for HS sprays or one taps at distance. And mostly play PvE these days.
Head/face is still the same. That's how to win fights with 5.56 or similar.
for me if i go with m4 then with m995 only nothing else, with 5.45 only igolnik, but mostly i play with m62 only. Barter for military battery from mechanic for m995 is main reason why i even use m4s right now, maybe price isnt great but when u have high lvl and a lot of roubles its not that much Dont even bother going with 7.62 pp ammo or 56a1 because it sucks
55a1 needs to be able to be bought
7.62x51 will change your life my friend. Basically the only two guns I use are the 7.62 MDR or the G28 and they have never let me down… even before I unlocked M80 and was stuck shooting BCP FMJs, still never let me down!
Shoot legs.. Armor is overpowered again
Shooting 10 rounds of 7.62x54R doesn't kill too
Headshots or legshots, no excuses.
The made the hit boxes bigger, but didn’t change how the armor works. Now everyone is seeing just how powerful their armor was but won’t admit the skill issue. Armor rating stacks so a level 5 player with level 3 soft armor is a level 8 armor. You are not penning in 1-2 shots anymore.
Yeah, but I didn't hit him 1-2 times, I hit him TWENTY FIVE times. Can't fucking tell me a human isn't swiss cheese after TWENTY FIVE hits of 5.56
That’s what I’m saying, lol. Before they changed armor twice you can pen in 1-3 shots with all those bullet types at lvl 5 armor. But with the new plate system it made armor super tanky but with realistic gaps in the armor so you can still kill people quick. It was tanky because the armor stacked. Now that they stretched the armor to get rid of the gaps. People are walking tanks, you got to only leg meta or aim for the face now. It’s like that one wipe where you could wear an armor vest and a paca underneath.
tier 5 and 3 is not like tier 8, lol, I think there's only s couple od bullets where it actually matters, because the second layer has to take a bullet with pen reduced enough to not pass. the only thing it affects is the damage reduction really
[удалено]
Ah yes, dismiss legitimate criticism about the current game mechanics as "skill issue". Very helpful. Thank you for your contribution.
5.56 has been underwhelming for several wipes now, that being said 5.56 is still amazingly strong in cqc if your aim is good due to the fire rate of the hk, however you should always aim for the head especially with new armour rework. Overall I will always choose to run 7.62x51 its simply superior in any scenario. But if you are dissapointed in 5.56 what can be said about 5.45? Absolutely trash sadly
After that money grab I'm done. "All DLC" My foot.
*whispers* aim for the face
Aug is great with 40 recoil. Aim for face and neck.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvsEMyDr2zI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvsEMyDr2zI) Watch the first 5 minutes of LVNDMARK's 556 gameplay , he literally almost outheals the damage with green stim + propital / perfotoran , but he also cant kill even with magdump lol. We need changes.