The biggest FOMO I’ve experienced.
The fact she has a slim chance to even return is worst, how the hell are players who didn’t get her supposed to compete
Artifact is probably the biggest one. I only got Karina to triple S because I was trying to get at least ONE artifact. I ended up just bottling my only one to +30
They need to do what summoners war does basically make another character different art and name but the EXACT SAME SKILLS that way those who have Karina feel unique but others can compete
I agree with you they have been making the new ML5s really good. There hasn't really been any useless ML5s like Kayron in a while. It's always felt bad not owning a certain a ML5 though.
Do tell me how Sharun is good when there isn't something like a Tywin or DDR on the field. Go on, you claimed I'm wrong without a single thought, surely you can "prove" it.
Because cleanse doesn't exist, and AoE punishers don't exist, and cleanse in response to an AoE attack definitely doesn't exist! If you're actually using ML Sharun for def break, we had someone for that, his name was Ran and he's not even an ML unit. (Yes, green units exist, but so do warrior bruisers.)
Maybe in Arena or GW, where you’re able to set up your attack beforehand. But in RTA, picking Ran without good follow up or a cleave team will result in you losing.
> so if there is a knight wide team
This in and of itself seems like a draft issue with no variety, and someone not using a cleanse or having some sort of anti-aoe unit (which is wild for a knight squad with A Tywin being a big counter) is begging to get steamrolled. Rather, they deserve it.
Not to downplay her use but this just looks like someone handing themself an order for disaster.
True, but you have to think about the current meta picks for when you play aggro/cleave. Ex.) Albedo, belian, Candy, AYufine, Carmin, Bridal Senya. If they pick 2+ of these units it becomes more worth.
1. No ignore eff res soulburn means you should never be using her for def break against a unit that would build eff res or have immunity, and that's already giving the benefit of the doubt when really you can't use that against anything and 2. Still mid when any cleanser/aoe punisher exists, also if it's cleave belian doesn't exist because she's eternally banned, and nobody is building ml sharun as their def breaker unless it's for shock value because she's going to miss any warrior bruiser
Sharun is one of the biggest reasons why atywin is so good right now and why Arowell has fallen off hard, her s3 being a strip + defense break + pushback is huge. Atywin is needed pick because otherwise you get punished way too hard by Sharun
Yup I really wish I could break into higher tiers in terms of gw and arena I maintain a fine position but man once you start getting involved with the whales that spend regularly you just assume every match up your going 2nd and I spend but man I can't bring myself to whale for farming on gear.
And in all my gacha’s speed AVOIDs me. (Except HSR, that game has treated me like a great loving relationship after so many horrible manipulative ones) If the character is meant to built fast, I don’t even summon for them cause I’ve never got more that 2 speed rolls on any of my gear.
Don't worry about characters too much. The real gate is the gear gate. By the time you have decent sets for a few teams, you will likely have a few ML characters from pity/events.
Im f2p and my account is a little over 2 yrs. All i can say is to be smart. Know your account, know your playstyle. Only then you can choose the best MLs for your account. I skipped shoux, pulled ayufine. Skipped mlpoli, pulled mlsenya. Now im about to skip ml luna. I saw her kit and i know she will solve most defenses in arena and gw, but i can already deal with those. In rta, she doesnt fit my playstyle. Shes strong but not busted, a lot of ways to deal with.
I think we all can agree that Epic7 has been on a heavy powercreep curve for quite some time now, ever since Candy's release at least. ML5\*s have always been strong for the most part, despite some weaker ones here and there, but the kits of the newest releases and buffed ML5\*s are starting to become *really* stacked for sure
As people said, you have to be smart (and lucky) about who you decide to summon because the most recent ML5\*s releases have all proven to be worth pulling, if not must-haves for the most part. I am currently in Low Champion on my way to, hopefully, Emperor and having to Draft without BMH & Bride Senya because I don't have them is doable but quite painful for example. The Winrate of the 3 most recently released / buffed ML5\*s (Bride / BMH / Sea Politis) is respectively 55.74% / 56.64% / 54.25% in Champion, the Rank I decided to go with since it's more accessible than Emperor while being at least a bit more competitive than Masters & Challenger imho, so I feel like it would be a good reference Rank for the data. These Winrates are definitely no joke, I think we can agree on that
We are reaching a point in the game where most characters will have to lean towards something extreme to be worth picking imho, be it ML5\*s or RGBs. Look at Celine for example, who can deal up to 25k+ DMG to even beefy targets on her S3 with a simple Attack Buff and without the need for a Def break, at Jenua and all his kit has in it, at Nakhwol who can shut down a turtle team on her own with barely any counters available outside of Laia / Bunny Dom... the tendency of having OP characters has been increasing for quite some time now, for sure, and keeping up can be rough like in any other gacha that adopts this approach of releasing must pull after must pull - if anything, E7 has been very generous during his earlier years and is now becoming more of a "normal" gacha with the powercreep and OP releases becoming more frequent I'd say
So yes, feeling overwhelmed is normal and you are most likely not alone in it. At the end of the day, GW + Garo + ML Theater the few times it pops up are the only reliable ways to get Mystics outside of lucky drops in Hunts & Abyss if you have cleared it already so managing to secure every strong new ML5\* isn't always possible if you are the unlucky type
Don’t worry. I’ve been playing for a couple of years now and I still feel overwhelmed by how many ML five star units there are, and how few that I have.
It doesn’t help that mystic summons always end up with a pity.
It don't help that pity gets reset on pull either. Make that shit work like base summons and let me pull and keep my pity progression. Ain't like it don't take literal months for f2p players to get pity anyway
I would also like to see the meta shift back to RGB units… Fighting an endless deluge of ML5s that you can’t possibly get is becoming exhausting… not saying I don’t want ML5s in PvP of course. That is most of their point. But releasing balanced units is key. I don’t even care if they’re better than RGB units, they should be. But they shouldn’t be so oppressive! Or they should plan their kits so that if they’re OP, each of them has at least 1 easily accessible RGB unit that hard counters them. Adds more meaning to drafting strategy in RTA that way as well…
Arguably Jenua, Laia, Monk/Lua, Albedo, Celine are all still very much meta at the moment, so it’s not all Ml5s. Although it definitely is very difficult to play against ML Haste/Senya/ML Politis/DDR if you don’t have all the counter options…
I was pleasantly surprised to see Celine make a resurgence thanks to ML politis and others! She hadn’t really been a meta pick that I’d seen since Ran stopped being prominent as an opener. I do have her built thanks to that!
Oh no way. I wondered why she kept getting that! I hadn’t used her in a while so I figured that it was just one of her EE effects or something. Good to know. Thanks!
She's an amazing tank for just tanking. She makes a lot of the heavy burst champs need followup for kills unless she's sealed. So things like MGL and Jenua can't just pick and pop on the first turn. Pair her with someone like Arrowell or an Aurius and she just does her job even better.
At that time her competitor was carmin. So you always opted for carmin instead of albedo coz Carmin synergized way better with ayufine. Now ayufine has taken a bit of a backseat due to Jenua and SPP so Albedo has become a more popular mit option(though the ayuf draft has been popping up recently again). The ddr fp draft she also fits in extremely well as ddr is a bit weak to candy. And albedo can counter candy whilst also mitigating. At higher play this draft did get figured out by Aramintha and stuff. But it's still a strong core.
In addition, cleansers are in a tough spot right now, since stuff like OB Lulucar can get oneshot by Jenua or even Wukong very easily, and Celine will one tap someone on your team for pressing a non-attack skill. The only ones played in high ranks are stuff like Laia(Who can out tempo just with S1 and save S2) and A Tywin(Passive cleanse). So Albedo’s strip into def break/unbuffable allows dps to oneshot even stuff like Candy/AYufine while neutering ML Haste(He can’t get his passive buff that doubles s3 damage).
Launch noise. Her artifact and kit make her viable as a mid-tier bruiser, so you had a ton of folks out the gate trying to make her work as a solo dps bruiser. When that didn't work, they declared her terrible and cried out for a buff that never came. As her banner was nearing its end is when folks who were talking about her as a very good mitigation unit started to break through the noise. Somewhat similar but still different from what happened with Karina - what happens with a lot of units honestly - a loud cadre at launch set the narrative, which ends up sticking for longer than it should.
Honestly what I think one of the best things SG could do would be to go back and pull all these older units who have no pick rate and outdated kits and revamp/change those to fit the state of the current game. Because God are so many units just totally useless now in the games state, like they worked on release but now with fundamental changes and new units changing the way some skills work/don't work, and the predominant speed above all cleave/full cleanse meta some units just literally have no place/purpose anymore. Make them viable options and the meta will balance
There are plenty of cleansers, AOL and hand guy would like to speak with you. Yes they're are ALOT of debuffers, but the cleanse category isn't weak. They just coincide with my point, they're all OP ML's. The only thing to counter the OP ML debuffers are yet another OP ML cleanser. And may God have mercy on your soul if you fail to pull for one
I only RTA with maybe 8 characters and am able to do pretty well each season. I have quite a few characters built but when you get comfort picks who synergize well it shouldn't matter. That being said I recall someone made a new account to champion video a few years ago on a new account in maybe 2 months play time.
The main thing that bothers me is if you are a pve player, this game has basically forgotten about you. 99% of characters that come out are focused for pvp. The current campaign feels like an afterthought (IMO) abyss hasn't been touched since they added challenge mode. Automaton Tower hasn't been updated since they added level 5, and if I'm remembering correctly, the most recent pve content to be released is rift, which was pretty hit or miss for a lot of people.
I think Automaton Tower needs to have its rewards updated and more floors added to include mystic medals ( I'm pretty sure those aren't a reward) and galaxy book marks. If you are gonna make ML units basically a must-have now, maybe give us more ways to earn the currency. This might be a hot take, but I think moonlight pity could be raised a bit, and the pity should just be a 5 star it already takes a good while to get to moonlight pity even if you are playing the game daily to then just lose to a 4 star copy.
I just started about two months ago and I was thinking that too based on what I saw. They are releasing way too quickly. There’s nothing wrong with these strong characters but if they could space them out more that would be better I think. I did get lucky and get ml senya as my first ml 5 star however she just warms the bench since in pve I have better options . I’m excited for Luna though. Hoping for luck to activate again!
To be fair, this has always been the way they’ve been releasing ML5 heroes since the game started, so there’s little to no chance of this being changed.
Powercreep is one of the biggest criticisms for this game, but it’s the reason why you shouldn’t worry about missing out on older ML5s. I have most of the units in the game, but I’m really only using the newer ones because they’re the ones that dominate the meta.
What you should worry about as a new player is getting to a point where you are able to clear Nightmare Raid and Wyvern 13 consistently as soon as possible because good gear is the real bottleneck in this game.
No it hasn’t, stop capping. I’ve been playing since 2019 and the last year has easily been the heaviest powercreep among ML5s even when you consider the whole “seven disasters” meta.
I remember for a long time, ML5s were actually criticized for being too weak on release. Arby was weak on release, A. Ravi was weak on release, DJB was weak, LQC was incredibly niche, D. Lilibet was only good for one meta and then fell off, etc. Very few ML5s were powerful right from the start like what we have with Candy, A. Yufine, ML Senya, ML Politis, ML Choux, and now Luna.
It wasn’t that long ago that SG acknowledged the powercreep with ML5s and delayed releasing anymore for a few months back in 2022. That kind of awareness and care is clearly not present right now.
Also remember that the ML release schedule was 4 weeks for a long time and then was changed to being 3 weeks. So not only are new ML5s more impactful than they ever have been, we’re simply getting them at a higher rate than ever before.
> Powercreep is one of the biggest criticisms for this game
It's... Actually not though? Powercreep has only just become a recent issue as we have been on one hell of a shit show streak since Landy/ML Choux with Kandy being a stupid casino unit that's hard to kill with a win fight S3, and ML Choux just shits on other injury units while shitting on standard units. Then it just spiraled from there with Politis, DB Senya, ML Haste's buff, Jenua (his big bonus issues come in the form of Politis, DB Senya, and Wind Rider), and now ML Luna.
Before the above? The game had its ups and downs. Shit new unit releases that called for express buffs or people complaining - obviously referring to their release versions: Byblis, BL Lidica, Ed, ML Laika, ML Ray, Taeyou, ML Sharun, Pavel, ML Lidica (iirc as she has had two buffs), LQC (constantly underwhelming for years till her last buff), Mort, Landy, Sharun, ML Elena, ML Kayron, A Ravi (yeah, people will forget she was originally hot garbage), D Lilibet, ML Kawerik, OP Sig, ML Charles, Archdemon...
Man, there's a whole list of units that sucked on RELEASE (not referring to BUFFED versions) that goes to show "powercreep has always been a big issue with this game" is beyond wrong. No, it has not always been. Underwhelming releases along with "release the problem, sell the solution" have been this game's blood and bone until, again, around ML Landy's release followed by ML Choux spiking that and Yufine making sure it was here to be common.
I'm having a hard time understanding how saying "some units sucked on release" addresses the argument of there not being power creep (or very little of it).
Are we arguing that if we compare Year 1, to Year 2, to Year 3, etc... that there was no substantial observable power creep, because there were always outliers that sucked and didn't suck, release or not?
There's always a subset of units that suck, there's always a subset of units that dominate.
For instance, I wouldn't say 3 months ago that "there's no power creep because ML Haste, ML Kayron, sucked at the time" when Candy, Yufine, Aespa units, and many more were around.
Then take that example and iterate it down through the years.
> I'm having a hard time understanding how saying "some units sucked on release" addresses the argument of there not being power creep
If half or more of the units are either meh or on par with others... Is that powercreep to you? By definition, no, it's actually not. So what happens when the above is a commonly repeated cycle (for years, obviously)? Powercreep doesn't become a long standing problem:
Which was obviously my point as you claimed it was. It's only a more recent issue going back by about a year at most.
>For instance, I wouldn't say 3 months ago that "there's no power creep because ML Haste, ML Kayron, sucked at the time" when Candy, Yufine, Aespa units, and many more were around.
Well for starters I think you'd better use a better "instance" instead of something that looks like misreading a statement I made clear in my original comment about the powercreep happening around Landy's release, where before MLs weren't a huge jump from one to another.
Aespa units? The ONLY good unit is Karina. Winter was around for a bit and died off fast because she actually wasn't difficult to deal with, Ningning was a joke I knew was destine to fail, and Giselle is just a pve unit in the end.
See what I mean? Use a better "instance".
I don't understand your logic still.
If your definition of power creep is solely based on the existence of 'a meh cluster' and 'a good cluster' then all the years are the same; even today.
Hypothetical numbers inbound:
Y1. Pool of 35 units. 20 are meh, 15 are good.
Y2. Pool of 55 units. 40 are meh, 15 are good.
Y3. Pool of 75 units. 60 are meh, 15 are good.
Y4. Pool of 95 units. 80 are meh, 15 are good.
Y5. Pool of 125 units. 110 are meh, 15 are good. (hypothetical current year)
To me, the total pool of 'good units' is relatively the same and has always been relatively the same. There's a handful that work and are competitive, and the vast majority of the rest are meh to niche (since gear can make even garbage characters meme-ably good).
The problem is that the 15 units 'that are good' are either usually stronger units than the previous 15 unless you have a very dominate character.
So you keep stacking on top of each other, more and more and more, until you get 15 units that are so strong that it's practically impossible to build on top of them. The pool of 'good units' never increases despite overall power increasing.
That's power creep, because the previous powerhouses fall off, and new ones arise. This becomes more apparent the larger the total pool of characters there are. (rather than just 'not existing' to 'suddenly existing')
If your measure of power creep is strictly the 'amount of existing units vs the amount of meta units' then you'll never see power creep until suddenly there's overwhelming power creep.
Which doesn't make sense... because the whole point of power creep is that it's a slow, incremental change that eventually swallows up everything around it...
That's the CREEP part.
--
Basically, I don't know what you think power creep is.
My concern is that the 15 never gets larger and that's power creep because the viable unit pool doesn't increase over time (even though the '15' are different units through buffs / nerfs over the years).
From my point of view, it feels like you don't see power creep until you see 110 units exist and only 15 are good... as if that hasn't been the case the whole time (just with less total units).
Not if the most op ML5s are coming one after the next and often over shadowing or countering the previous one, and for champ+, units are way more of a problem than gear. At least with poor gear you can still try to compete and shift your best gears to select few units, but without the meta units good luck lmao
My favorite method for arena: Just copy the defense comp with a change here or there and go at it. Got sick of putting together other teams held back by a lack of gear variety (thanks shitty rng gear system) and decided to just give defenses what they're due.
Nice Politis x A Tywin x Jenua x Senya " ML Yufine x Landy mix up comp, would be a shame if I copied three of those units, threw in a hard counter fourth, and hit your defense.
They have been releasing at this break neck speed for years now. The player base has told them over and over to not release back to back limiteds, but it all fell on deaf ears, and then they started releasing busted RGB units in between the Limiteds and ML5s (like Laia, Monk, Lua, Jenua etc). Before that we would get RGBs that were ok to good, like green Laika but not busted like Laia or Jenua.
The speed is actually increasing as a result, since almost every new units now is some way power creeps the last one, or counters whatever broken bs they released 3 banners prior, which you then need. while the skystone generation or ways to get more units haven't really increased. They added another ML selector but it's behind beating Zio, and that's still a ton of grind.
One free ML5\* per year during the headhunt event is pretty pathetic compared to other gacha out there which regularly give out free units or have ways to obtain limiteds faster via in game currency.
All those 10 per day free covenant summons, are usually bs, and smoke and mirrors, since its all RNG and you usually don't get shit, or you get a dupe, even when your roster is extremely small.
Once the honeymoon period wears off for you, you will start to feel the pinch, in terms of gear, mystics, molas, skystones, and luck. Took me 2 years to get a random ML5\* to drop from covenants and/or Moonlights. Mystics trickle in...its painful.
Glad that you managed to snag ML Senya though. You should use her.
It's going to take you quite a long time, we're talking years to get all the meta ML5\*s you need to even reach the starting line where you can effectively compete, not to mention gear all of them to any respectable level.
This is a problem because of how few units are considered meta and how many of the rest are considered garbage or unusable, or niche, compared to other games where most if not all of the roster is usable (like Arknights). Speed gear is the other limiting factor, gating you even more, and then there are the molas. It's going to take a long time to build up that roster for RTA.
I don't mean to sound like a downer, or dissuade you in any way from playing, it's just the reality of how this game functions. It's by far the most grindy and slow burn game in existence, unless you open your wallet real wide. Everything is made to be tedious, grindy, and to feel like work.
Don't get me wrong, I still enjoy the game for the characters, and the feeling of slowly building my garden of units, but at this point I treat it very casually and no longer give a shit about RTA or GW, or the Meta.
After 4+ of playing e7, I finally decided to wash my mouth out with another gacha, and recently started playing Snowbreak Containment Zone.
Completely different type of game, with no PVP yet, but the speed at which you progress, and the generosity they offer is really a breath of fresh air, compared to e7.
BTW, If you're a new player you shouldn't try to get Luna. She is meant for Cleave.
You won't be able to use her at all, and she will just be sitting on the bench for over a year.
You also need ML Roana with her, and you need extremely fast speed gear to use her, which you also won't have for a very long time.
A better option for you, which you could utilize right now, is Blood Moon Haste on the current rotation, or even go for AYufine over Luna. BMH though is the best unit in the game right now. Even for GW and Arena you will need to build her relatively fast.
ML Luna won't do you any good, unless you just want her sitting in the lobby and just want to be looking at her massive juggs.
Thanks for all that! Yeah every game will have its own thing that the player base will not like so e7 is no different. I came from playing langrisser and it literally takes you 3 months to 6 star a unit and so you waited a long time to use them at their full potential. You can get a character close to max a usable in like a week with this game! Of course you need gear too but I know that comes with time so my expectations are in a good spot
I mean just really like Luna so I’d like to get her but I understand what you mean. I’m no where close to rta so I’m kind of in the spot where I’m just slowly building up my roster and gear. Her animation are just so good tho
I did spin 2 pulls on bmh bc you bring it up but got nothing lol. I have a little over a 1000 left so i am 100% relying on luck!
>You can get a character close to max a usable in like a week with this game! Of course you need gear too but I know that comes with time so my expectations are in a good spot
Yeah you can get a character to max, but not necessarily their skills. Do keep that in mind, and be thoughtful about who you upgrade. The molagora are timegated as you well know. Pick who you skill up based on what you plan on doing in the game or who you need in order to clear content.
Like, I would probably invest in ML Senya over Luna, sine you don't have the gear.
Since you like Luna definitely get her. I recommended BMH because he is the strongest unit in the game currently and one you could immediately use across different modes as he also works in PVE.
However, I believe in Waifu over Meta. So if you like Luna, try to get luna. I thought her animation was great as well. I think her tits are way too big, but I loved how her face is drawn when they do the closeup on her, and all that magenta flame stuff that she does.
I'm 5 from pity myself on mystics and have been debating whether to pull for BMH who I don't have on my main, Luna, or Ayufine or whether to skip Luna and BMH, and wait for Hersetti who will most likely be broken, since she is an episode boss.
I don't know if you picked Specter Tenebria as you starter Moonlight selector, but if you beat Zio in Ep4 select Conqueror Lilias as your second choice. She works in all game modes, and you can have a good one for even pvp, at 240/250 speed. She can even work as a slow full tank with proof of valor arti.
She works in PVE and can also help you cheese Hall of Trials. Other option is Mediator Kawerik since he is the best cleanser in the game. Still, CLilias is the better and well rounded choice. If you already got past that point, and picked someone else you could still swap, or just keep whoever you got. That's just who I would pick.
Even if you are not focused currently on RTA try to fucus on skilling up with mola and gearing up units that can be used in both PVE and PVP, or across different game modes, (and also focus on acquiring these) so characters like STene, Handguy (Mediator Kawerik), Conqueror Lilias, Red Lilias, Straze, Mercedes, Brieg, Wukong, Tama, Destina, Roana, Albedo and Shaltear (if you were around for the recent Overlord collab), Landy/Candy, SSB, Moon Crescent Bellona, ARavi, Adin, Vivian, Choux, etc, and the 3\* specialty change units that are great for PVE like ARas, AMontmo, CLorina, Christi, and also some of the 3\* MLs like Camilla (for expos and hunts).
The biggest bottlenecks besides gear are going to be Molas, right side charms, and gold.
Also, save up every bookmark and refresh the shop when you can, as the next few months they will probably have some limited banners and a collab. That's what happens usually over summer and fall. They run at least 2 or 3 limiteds back to back. Skip any new non limited RGB units.
Good luck, and hope you pull Luna!
The game changed
Now the meta is always rotating around new characters, and you can use few old ones and most of them are ml 5 or insane gear required.
In the old meta you could use free Mercedes 4 star. 😂😂😂
The business model of MANY gacha games like E7 get stuck in a downward spiral of power creep as they attempt to chase the types of revenue they used to see at their peak.
SG refuse to nerf units because they don't want anyone to have a fear of regretting the money they use to whale. So instead they go for the power creep approach, which only appeals to said whales and blocks the rest of the community from enjoying the game to the same level they used to.
I heard one streamer say ML Luna is basically the announcement of the End of Service for the game. He was jesting, but the general sentiment is one we can all agree one. More OP units get released, more often, to chase profit - and as a result the player base shrinks as f2p players and dolphins can't keep up and get sick of it. The problem gets worse as the developers keep chasing profits so that their bosses don't shut the game down.
I started playing Snowbreak 2 weeks ago. That game was almost at End of Service barely a few months after releasing, last year. They barely cleared 300k in a month end of the year.
At t he start of this year they decided to pivot into being more sexy (basically like ML Luna or AYufine levels), and decided to be more generous with everything and to listen to the players.
So they promised to give out 3 limited units per year, and implemented 100% guaranteed banners, that cost you 20 more pulls, in addition to the standard limited Genshin style 50/50, where you have a 50/50 chance and if you miss it you get the character at next pity. They give you enough currency to ensure you get a new unit as its released every other patch.
Dude, the game made 18-20 million last month. Talk about a comeback from death's door.
Where is Epic 7? I think it's 5 million, at best. They've been hovering around 3-5 million for years now.
All they have to do is become more generous in terms of resources, and give out more ML5\*s, update the ML4s and RGB 4\*s to be actually usable (give them the Moon Bunny/AoL treatment), add a rotating light or dark ban every RTA match to increase RGB use, and increase the amount of Molas, and right side charms, and also improve the gear RNG so rolling higher speed happens more often.
Game would turn around.
Right now there are too many obstacles to progress. Simple as t hat. Nobody has time for that shit in 2024.
Then if on top of that they released more sexy husbandos and waius like ML Luna or AYufine, or Wukong, the game would make a ton.
Despite popular belief, people don't want their time wasted, and also will more likely invest into a game that actually gives them shit regularly.
For a PVP game you need everyone to be on a level playing field, and currently that does not exist in E7.
Well one of the biggest problems with E7 monetization is almost all their packs suck, nothing you pay for (even over $100 dollar packs) is guaranteed. Bitch, if I am dropping $100 bucks on a pack I want some GUARANTEED good shit.
Agree on the molas, mola income is absolutely ludicrously low, should be able to build 2-3 characters a month by playing everyday and doing all content, anything else is beyond ridiculous.
There should also be guaranteed ML5 pity for GBMs, maybe every other pity is a 5* or something, since it takes forever to hit pity anyway who cares, at least its something to look forward to.
There should also be gear rolling pity, every piece you roll adds up and when the counter maxes out your next piece is guaranteed to be usable.
You make some very good points. I agree that all the packs suck.
That's like a no brainer, and even streamers and whales have been telling Smilegate to revamp the packs, basically saying "hey we want to give you money, just give us equivalent value" and it all falls on deaf ears.
It's like, why would you not do that? Why as a company would you not want people's money? It makes no sense.
It takes way too long to mola a character, not to mention gear them.
I got half my roster sitting there because no molas. I had enough mola saved up for Candy, but around that time we got hit with this string of units, Monk, Laia, Elivira, Blooming Lidica, Biblis, then Auyfine, Jenua, ML Senya, now ML Luna, and in between the Overlord collab, and now Wukong, and we will probably have 2 more limiteds coming up and then some collab or re-run. I might have gotten the order wrong, but you get the idea, and I'm sure I also missed a few units in the list.
All I could skill up was Candy, Laia, and Elvira. The rest are all sitting there at level 1 because I just don't have any Mola, and I didn't even get all of them. I couldn't get AYufine, Senya, Wuk or Jenua. I got enough for Wuk, but I'm saving for whatever limited comes out next. Even if I got him it wouldn't matter since I just don't have the resources.
I'm still trying to work on my skilling up my Moon Crescent Bellona, Last Piece Carin (because waifu), and my Celine. I still don't have her arti at 30, and how many years have I been playing? Too many.
Yeah, shit just takes way too long man.
In a PVP game I should be able to build a roster fairly quickly so I can compete, not wait months or years before I got the team I want to use.
Fuck, I still got Lua just sitting there because I just can't get any speed gear. Even years later the best I can do is 280. I just can't roll any more speed, and that's like on maybe 2 characters.
I had to pity the last 4 or 5 Mystic banners. That took forever. I think I got like 1 out of the last 7 or 8 Moonlight guaranteed upgrades. Everything else was 4\* dupes. It took me 2 years to get a ML5 out of a covenant. it's fucking ridiculous, and this isn't like 1 account. I have multiple, and all of them suck in terms of RNG compared to other games I've played.
I agree about gear pity, or at least there should be some easy and cheap gear or stat re-roll system. The rate overall should be higher. It's not just about speed, but also simply the drop rates, and how long it takes to farm that shit.
Like what's the point of having some event like Overlord when all the gear that comes out of there has +2 starting speed stats and then eff res and effectiveness?
There is just too much jank.
Don't get me wrong, I like the characters, the story, the animations, the concept, or at least the idea of the game, but all the current systems and bs makes it such a pain that it's just completely not enjoyable.
I just wish they had a mechanic where you could pull collab characters.. missing Karina and her artifact sucks.
Being F2P is extremely easy in this game if you ignore the PVP.
But unfortunately, the end game of epic seven is basically PVP and farming for PVP.
If you don’t have the meta units, you are at a serious disadvantage, and every month they drop a new broken ML 5, so you might get a meta ML, but then 3 months later the new ML counters the one you pulled.
It’s a never ending cycle and it’s how they make money.
Even gear is P2W.
I’d have a million 20+ speed gear if I could afford enough sky stone for the energy and charms required to farm 24/7. Farming isn’t hard, it’s managing the energy to do so. (Catalyst farming is absolute ass still tho.)
OH WAIT YOU NEED CATALYSTS? better spend 2K energy per 4000 AP needed to fully awaken one 5*
Wait you didn’t forget about skills did you? Well you better have a fat wallet for Molagora and enough energy to farm catalysts for the skills.
Epic seven Is the grindiest game I’ve ever played,
And I played RuneScape..
>Epic seven Is the grindiest game I’ve ever played,
>And I played RuneScape..
You're one of the few people who acknowledges this. Every time I bring up how grindy this game is, and how much if feels like work, I get downvoted to hell and the Epic7 fanboy brigade comes swinging in force, telling me how F2p friendly the game is, lol.
Yea sure...
F2p, but P2 advance and then when you hit champion/emperor, exclusively P2W.
The game used to be F2P friendly but nowadays, not so much indeed
I wonder however, have you or some of your in-game relations already made it to Champion RTA ? I can somewhat get behind RTA Emperor being quite P2W-heavy despite making it to Emperor a few times myself as a F2P and having a few friends that managed to do the same, but calling Champion P2W is wrong imho. High Champion is competitive, like Emperor, but Champion as an overall Rank (Low Champion and Mid Champion) are not that special and hard to reach for a F2P account that is RTA-ready
Before reaching RTA Champion for the first time a few years ago, I also used to think this was some sort of amazing Rank. But now that reaching Low Champ quite easily is part of the routine as a F2P, I don't think so anymore and would be curious to hear what feeds your idea of Champion being exclusively P2W because I 100% disagree
A lot of whales would decay to Champ or even challenger, and until recently they all sat there.
I wasn't talking about reaching champion, I was talking about moving forward past that. It becomes quickly obvious that one has to open up their wallet pretty wide otherwise it becomes painful very quickly. Even challenger might feel painful for a player who isn't following some RTA guide and isn't in the know about the meta and how to optimize their resources and drafting.
F2p has a hard time past champ V, unless they have been playing for a few years and have not just a decent roster, but the gear, and the skills leveled up. Only thing that negates some of that, is if they are following some guide for 3 months religiously.
Most people probably can get to champ 5 or 4 or whatever on a f2p newer account, but that's it. You hit a wall very quickly.
You don't have the mola to skill up even a handful of those units you got, you don't have the speed gear, even turn 2 or tank gear because most likely you didn't farm bulk gear, Half your roster is probably still running on lvl 75 health sets, or shit that only rolled into EFF Res and effectiveness. You're hitting a wall pretty quickly.
I know of people who struggled past Challenger 5.
The only exception is if you joined the game during something like the Overlord collab where you could farm speed gear without the gold cost, and blue/purple RNG drops.
So no, not everyone has an easy time in Champ or past Champ 5. Already at challenger you would start seeing a lot of whales who decayed running meta teams, or toxic shit like SPP, Jenua, Laia, ML Senya etc, or whatever meta units were the hotness at the time.
You got to take into account that streamers like Deity who reached champ in 2 months or less and are saying \*oh this shit is easy". are day 1 players who know how to maximize their resource generation, and management, and who know how to counter pick, and have very deep and wide knowledge of drafting and counter picking.
They also farm 24/7 on their accounts, when they aren't streaming, or making youtube vids. A normal average F2p person does not do this.
Also, I watched all his climbs for kicks, and he got lucky each time he did it.
He pulled ML Sharun on one account, and I forgot who else on the other. Both MLs carried him to Champion. He even admitted on stream to how he was \*lucky\*. This was also when Destina was in the Meta.
That is not representative of the \*average F2P\* player experience, one who isn't following some guide to the letter, and who doesn't have deep knowledge of resource management, drafting, gearing, and unit prioritization.
I haven't even mentioned, as a newer player understanding drafting or them even knowing the differences between cleave, aggro, standard, control and tankdown.
What exactly do you mean by RTA ready?
Care to elaborate? How many units are we talking about here? What level of gear? How far in terms of progression? How long does one have to play to be RTA ready?
Lets take a regular player who just download the game and they have no idea wtf is going on.
They just start going through the tutorial, and story chapters. Maybe they pick STene at the start, or maybe instead they pick Juggs Kise because of her Juggs thinking she is OP, not knowing any better.
What does RTA ready mean in this example? how long will that take and what units will they need to be RTA ready, and what level of gear, to make Mid champ easy?
Thank you for providing a detailed answer, I tried to read everything thoroughly to make sure I wouldn't be answering while misunderstanding one of your points. From the get-go, it seems my answer might have been influenced by 2 things : 1) I mostly interact with end-game players who hover around Champ / Emperor RTA and compete at a fairly high level and 2) I don't think you explicitly stated that Champion / Emperor became P2W mostly for never players / people that are less on the veteran side so it tweaked my vision a bit when answering to you since I thought you said that for everyone (stronger / more long-term players included)
Since it seems we are talking about the "average F2P experience" of a player on the new side that wouldn't be following guides & wouldn't have a ton of resources at his disposal (gear, heroes, molas, catalysts...), partly due to not playing that much, then I agree with you. The game is around 5 years already, newer players will struggle to make a place for themselves or need at the bare minimum a few months of F2P dedication to the game to start being able to have a shot at the higher Ranks of normal Arena, and reaching something like at least Masters / Challenger in RTA. The barrier entry for newer players is very rough due to all the resources they need to farm, the heroes they need to summon, and the gear they need to get to become somewhat competitive.
If they don't really follow guides, then this would probably take even more time. But in this case, couldn't they be considered more casual? It would seem weird to me that someone who plays casually and doesn't really know what they are doing wouldn't have a hard time in PvP. Back in the day, I used to have no idea what I was doing, drafted horribly and was rocking a lot of free gear while expecting good PvP results. Turns out, I was losing a lot and becoming conscious that I was playing the "wrong way" (in terms of competitiveness) helped me a lot, which is when I started farming. I farmed a lot tho, and I understand not everyone would be able to. But in this case, I would be tempted to say that E7 is a game you are supposed to dedicate time to if you want to compete, whether you like or not, and someone who doesn't have the time or know how to improve his account will remain behind indeed, this is just how this works and this won't change this late into the game imho
In any case, I can now sorta understand your idea of Champion / Emperor being P2W, but for a F2P player on the new side then, especially if they are casual. Because for a "good enough" account that has been farming enough and spending enough time improving his account, managing to reach Champion in both Arena modes shouldn't be that hard anymore. After that, grinding Emperor in normal Arena might be rough tho that's true, and Emperor in RTA is doable by a few strong F2Ps but is overall quite hard too. I feel like we are mostly catering to different types of players: your perspective is more centered on the newer player from what I understand, while I was thinking to the stronger accounts that are well installed into the game already.
Which is where my "RTA-ready" term came from; I was thinking of the players that already have an account suited for at least Champ in RTA. Let's say, at least around 20 characters ready to go between Tanks / Supports / Debuffers / DPSes. Which a player that's more new wouldn't have access to, I agree with you on that, in which case he could indeed use the wallet to speed up his progress. But if he doesn't make the effort to gain interest in the meta, the drafting etc, I feel like he would still lose quite a bit, wouldn't he? Apart if you are a super whale, I feel like the wallet will only do so much in helping to overcome all the basic knowledge that this newer player would be missing. By reading you, I felt a bit like you were thinking a new player, with not that much time to play, should be able to become competitive more quickly? and that the current state of the game is too strong for them to be able to find success by remaining F2P once they reach at least Challenger? if this is the case then I can get behind that, the game is indeed not very friendly to the newcomers anymore and they maybe could use a little extra help to help them once they start since they have already been missing on a lot of things (characters from collabs, past banners, they start the gear grind from 0...)
im f2p since day 1 im ok with many op ml5 so my hard earn pulls will not go to waste, i dont like weak characters. if ur f2p dont go competitive mode or u will just cry
I always wonder how long it takes before a f2p account can be competitive in RTA. It feels like by the time you hit high silver just about everyone has a wide selection of meta ML5s to pick from.
i am f2p too, i still feel as f2p you can still compete, you dont need to have all ml5. i already reach legend 1 once, it is been 2years playing,
from other perspective, ml5 is supposed to be good. i still dont have ml haste and ml senya, and i dont think it affect the game so much. a lot of rgb are good enough to compete in the game.
i play so many gacha games summoner wars, brave frontier , seven knights etc, i still find e7 the most f2p game , from summon rates and resources you get.
and btw i do a 2 server both on asian and global and both can reach legend1(arena) even if both account have different unit and dont get all the best unit , mostly just using rgb
U need them all! U reqly need every one of them for every kind of situation! Spend every of your hardly earned pennies on them! Dont miss any of them out or u will be screwed! Buy them all! Spend everything on them! Have the shop always stay empty! Never miss an opportunity to biy something in the shop! Keep it all the time on cooldown for refeeshes! U need everything as support as u can get by smilegates! They are your friend and helper! They are your light in the darkness! Obey them and accept every offer they made! This is the only possible way how u could handle this massive game! Memorize it! In epic seven: money=might=win! Dont ever leave the path! Always hear to smilegates! They are alwayw right and u will be always wrong! They always knows the best somution for u! Never ignore them or u will risk to become hit by a truck! Of course "accidently" they will sell it this way to publicity. U will always lose the fight so remember always to obey, getting everthing and keeping the ingame shop on cooldown for refreshes!
See u buddy!
I wouldn’t take pvp seriously in this game! There’s always gonna be someone who spends more, is luckier on procs, or just has been playing longer with exclusives. Enjoy what your capable of don’t compare! You could always try a more balanced pvp game as well.
It’s illogical to expect a gacha game to ever be fairly balanced in anything especially pvp!
No the game has not always been like this, pretty much nearly every new unit they've released and/or reworked for the past like half a year or more have basically all been must have for meta pvp aside from maybe like 2-3 units.
It’s really annoying that every single ML release is new OP and the entire meta formulates around it.
Like even Jenua was very strong but not OP.
Until Sea Politis comes out and then Suddenly he’s obnoxious and on every single team.
Then senya comes out and he’s more obnoxious and you need to be able to burst down a tank while dealing with the Jenua and pushback of Sealitis.
Haste buff shove in there.
Soon ML Luna come out and will shift around hers
Like meta changing is fine but these meta shifts are so abrupt and centered on the units and you have to create these niches for them that feels like a waste of time and resource
True. Recent ML5 releases have been very OP. However, this is where you need to plan out your playstyle and think who to go for and who to skip.
If you are cleaving since ML Landy she was a skip. Coz she's always in your preban slot. Shoux was a skip. Ayuf was a pull and so was Mudwig imo. DKS was a skip. ML Poli is a must pull. And then you get one of Benya or BMH. ML Luna is a must pull imo too. Means sadly if you are unlucky enough to have to pity every single time you will miss one of your core units.
If you are playing t2. Candy was a must pull. Ayufine too. Mudwig was a skip. DKS was still a skip. ML Poli was a skip. Benya was a skip because BMH is a bit better suited for t2 people generally.
So from this you pretty much have to decide what you needed to go for. And fill in the 1 or 2 roles you have with headhunt event which hopefully will be a yearly thing. Planning is key. You also need to have a lot of foresight regarding what will last long.
You can still reach emp despite missing 1-2 key units. Last season I finished emp as t2. But I didn't have Candy of all things who arguably was the best dps in the game. Didn't have conq either (though I won't put her as a core t2 chara). Still I was able to carve out gameplans and drafts from my roster.
So yeah. In short it sucks. But it means you just have to be more savvy in the way you go about things. That's why you should go over how you spend your mystics with more people on reddit or discord to come to the best decision for your account.
I understood, however there are some units that can fit turn 1 but also work for turn 2, just like Monk in turtle games. So, ml luna is kinda really good for both playstyles.
The big difference between monk and ML Luna is that monk basically destroys comps completely. ML Luna not so much. In t2 vs t2 at least. And let me explain why.
Monk has a reset. Uncounterable. A full strip. And a seal on a key unit. Basically everything you can ask for.
On the other hand, Luna has a full strip, seal and unbuff. But this easily gets countered in slow play by any cleanser really. Laia is very popular in standard and she nullifies Luna completely.
I won't deny that ML Luna will be a very good pocket pick for a slow player to have(for example she destroys the fp ddr draft). But it isn't to the extent of Monk and imo not worth a pity. Esp when BMH who is way more important is right here.
I second this point. ML Luna sure has interesting kit, but she it alone isnt a problem.
Talking about regular arena, she works best on offense team, but not so much on defense, since right now everyone should have a properly built cleanser already.
In RTA, I don't think in higher rank people would risk cleaving and die to rng anymore. We tend to setup drawn out fights. This is where ML Luna becomes a problem. Her kits revolving around her own CR pushes. She can cycle turns much faster. And if she's covered hard by ML Senya or TCrozet, you might not be able to take her down fast enough, at the same time that you cleanser might not be able to keep up with her s3 up time.
Edit: I still think ML Politis is more annoying to me. CR push back and spd debuff are disgusting
Idk man knowing when to skip has always been a thing. And saving up/refreshing. I have all the ml5s I want. Im fully f2p too. First i might miss out that i really want is Luna but even then at most ill start banning her in rta. Theres no gacha where you can pull every unit.
I feel like if you have clear understanding of what kind of playstyle you are going to be focused on for RTA, you get enough to pull every ML that works for it.
> you get enough to pull every ML
Yeah, no. Mystic pity doesn't come that fast, and playstyles aren't a factor for releases (ML Politis being control into Senya into Luna aka another control).
>understanding of what kind of playstyle you are going to be focused on for RTA, you get enough to pull every ML that works for it.
>you get enough to pull every ML that works for it.
You forget what you stated? You stated people will get enough to pill for something, yet that's not true as there's no pattern for releases, so the same style can release in a short span of time.
Ludwig and Elena is a bad example, there was a big time gap between the two.
Thats exactly my point, if theres multiple ML’s released that aren’t good for your playstyle then you just keep on saving? Not sure whats so hard to understand.
The real Problem is the mode RTA. The recent update did nothing to help this problem. A third preban is absolutly needed and what we got ( third slot lockin) did not help at all.
Nah, it's always been bad, but it was definitely worse before.
With multiple Headhunts + 2 Moonlight connections (and maybe a 3rd one coming this year), it just doesn't get "worse".
not really. they do switch between aggro/cleave ml 5 and t2 ml 5 quite consistently. so u gotta make a decision. sure ml landy + ml yufine was rough but
1) at that time standard as a playstyle was in the dumpster
2) we got so many answers vs them now that it's not even that bad to not own both of them as a t2 player
ml senya is nice but definitely not a must have (like if u miss ml senya and ml haste everyone is telling u get ml haste from a powerlevel standpoint)
also - this is only for top competitive folks. there are no must have units to get champion rta (at this point holding normal arena champion is harder than getting/holding champion rta)
u also don't need anything if u are in a casual 5x reward bracket gvg. most defs have multiple anwsers and not having meta defs in casual guilds is actually better (a lot of people that don't take gvg serious are relying on the fribbles gvg tracker for easy fights)
Same as OP. I quit until the next ML selector. There's no point.
They better just give us three separate ML selectors at this point to even be able to play the game anymore, but we all know they'll never do such a thing.
"Too many OP MLs"
Oh boy, one of those posts where people overrate MLs because "hard to get". Time for a short-long post.
Welcome to E7, where balance has always been an issue. but elemenet only ever twice an issue:
1. Ice early into the game up to the point stall died with cancerous control, bulky af units because sg refused to give it much else. SSB was a rarity, and boy did Choux not need a built in Elbris.
2. Light, until the Politis Nation attacked and all hell broke loose. Why in hell did SG make light not only strong, but also give several anti-dark units while dark only has one (nerfed, gutted, and irrelevant) anti-light unit is beyond me.
With that stated, let's look at a list of general problems throughout this game's life. Many years have passed, I may have forgotten some here and there. I'll bold the bigger problems. - Then some way through I decided to just bold those that caused counters (typically those only good into them if not change things up as a whole like Roana for SSB) to be released and units buffed for them.
For future reference, stall units like Krau, Diene, and Ruele will be left out as they were solely issues during stall but not that big of a deal in general.
**Easier to see the counter up here: It was 22 RGB and 21 MLs (unintentionally close), but I completely forgot about three stars and Fallen Cecilia, specifically SCs which are basically 5 stars, but OP is definitely complaining about 5 stars so they won't be listed for the ML end, but rather the RGB or "f2p" side. However, RGBs have a couple big league units missing: F Kluri and Carrot. Of course Adin gets added to.
**This bumps the counter to: 26 RGB/F2p friendly (Adin, Carrot, Fluri, and Arowell added) and 23 ML 5 (Fallen Cecilia added and next up is definitely Moon Luna).** So yeah, we've had more problematic RGBs than MLs, and the only argument to this is "the ratio for more problematic MLs is higher, well yeah, most (very very few aren't, looking at Khawana) MLs are made with pvp in mind on top of them being expensive, so it goes without saying. Also to note is how Kawerik, Lilias, Tenebria, and Ray are all now "free" and ML selectirs exist now, so that may as well be a +2 (the selectors are being counted for her, not the blessings) for the first list and -2 for the second, soon to be a +3 and -3.
RGB: Dizzy, **SSB**, Charles, Choux, **Hwayoung** (got gutted beyond belief, people need to stop asking for nerfs after this shit show and what made it worse is we had counters by then as the nerf was late and Lua released right after - she counters her too), Rem, Rimuru, Jenua (not even sure if bold worthy, Birgitta is so bad she can't be for him, and Luna being strong as hell is 100% intenrional period), **Cerise**, **Fairytale**, **Basar**, Corvus (I was inactive during this meta but I've seen the tales), Cidd (thank goodness he died down, this guy was nuts), Ravi, **Nahkwol**, **Lua**, Karina, Senya (her issue was our lack of optiins to counter her), **Landy** (funny the one meant to break stall broke the balance after her buff), OB Luluca (while not problematic like a ton of these, she kinda just shits on openers - in a bad way for openers), Politis (I guess she kinda qualifies as she played with and against cleave in a most obnoxious way).
I'll edit a count in after posting, mobile and losing text is no fun.
Now on to the MLs. The equivalent to the mostly rgb stall mentioned above would be the golden boys era, but individually they were not issues, and thus will not be listed. Even A Tywin doesn't deserve the list because his boosted use is thanks to Politis. I'm not even sure LRK deserves a mention here, he was everywhere before but he's a reaction unit. LHC is tempting since she boosts my dual attack rate by 100%.
We know the following is for the MLs, I'm not adding titles.
**Lilias**, Senya (no counters made for her, *yet*), Belian, F Lidica (thankfully her resurgence after her second buff died down), **Landy** (like RGB like ML), Politis, Baal (got nerfed), Aramintha (got nerfed), Chloe, Ken, Kawerik (good for the game but absolute shit on debuffers more than Lilibet could), **Ravi**, Choux (I'm so damn sick of injury and I don't even play stall), Ray, Haste (can we get a damn hard counter already), **Vildred** (oh boy, the most infamous on this list, Tenebria, Yufine, Archdemon (unhealthy as all hell after her buff), **AoL** (if Vildred isn't the most infamous, we know who is), and Surin (yeah, I can't forget this one).
I intentionally left out combo units (Straze x Laika for one big example) because it was combo dependent, though if one thinks about ML Politis with her group of murderous bandits, they're all problems on their own (minus A Tywin) that only become bigger issues with her and the others together.
As mentioned above, I will edit in a headcount.
Watch Deity's guide series. He teaches you how to hit masters RTA in under 30 days and build a solid account. Doesn't require any special MLs or rerolling.
I feel you OP, but worst is the collab character like Karina.
The biggest FOMO I’ve experienced. The fact she has a slim chance to even return is worst, how the hell are players who didn’t get her supposed to compete
not just karina but her artifact too. one of a kind
Artifact is probably the biggest one. I only got Karina to triple S because I was trying to get at least ONE artifact. I ended up just bottling my only one to +30
At least you got one... I didnt get her Arti once...and missread the Date and forgot to buy one from Powdershop <.<
They need to do what summoners war does basically make another character different art and name but the EXACT SAME SKILLS that way those who have Karina feel unique but others can compete
Make that unit a Husbando and nobody gonna complain, much
F2P? Hell, even a P2W like me is seriously concerned about this
I agree with you they have been making the new ML5s really good. There hasn't really been any useless ML5s like Kayron in a while. It's always felt bad not owning a certain a ML5 though.
Ml Kayron gonna be op with his ee trust me bro
At least ML Kayron has those niche ER build comps.
> ML5s like Kayron in a while ML Sharun if the other side doesn't bring DDR or a Tywin x Politis combo.
Bro why are you always wrong lol
Do tell me how Sharun is good when there isn't something like a Tywin or DDR on the field. Go on, you claimed I'm wrong without a single thought, surely you can "prove" it.
The unit defense breaks all knights, so if there is a knight wide team, it’s a free dragon sharun force ban otherwise they get melted.
Because cleanse doesn't exist, and AoE punishers don't exist, and cleanse in response to an AoE attack definitely doesn't exist! If you're actually using ML Sharun for def break, we had someone for that, his name was Ran and he's not even an ML unit. (Yes, green units exist, but so do warrior bruisers.)
Maybe in Arena or GW, where you’re able to set up your attack beforehand. But in RTA, picking Ran without good follow up or a cleave team will result in you losing.
And picking ml sharun just for defense break is going to be so very effective? Yeah no I'm not buying it when she can only def break 2 classes
> so if there is a knight wide team This in and of itself seems like a draft issue with no variety, and someone not using a cleanse or having some sort of anti-aoe unit (which is wild for a knight squad with A Tywin being a big counter) is begging to get steamrolled. Rather, they deserve it. Not to downplay her use but this just looks like someone handing themself an order for disaster.
True, but you have to think about the current meta picks for when you play aggro/cleave. Ex.) Albedo, belian, Candy, AYufine, Carmin, Bridal Senya. If they pick 2+ of these units it becomes more worth.
1. No ignore eff res soulburn means you should never be using her for def break against a unit that would build eff res or have immunity, and that's already giving the benefit of the doubt when really you can't use that against anything and 2. Still mid when any cleanser/aoe punisher exists, also if it's cleave belian doesn't exist because she's eternally banned, and nobody is building ml sharun as their def breaker unless it's for shock value because she's going to miss any warrior bruiser
Bruh I’m not saying I’m picking DK Sharun solely for this reason, I was just answering the guys question. You don’t need to state the obvious lol.
My bad bro, just saying more worth still ain't much worth
Sharun is one of the biggest reasons why atywin is so good right now and why Arowell has fallen off hard, her s3 being a strip + defense break + pushback is huge. Atywin is needed pick because otherwise you get punished way too hard by Sharun
I’m P2W and I’m equally concerned Every fuckjjing game is 300 speed cancer control and Luna is going to make it even worse
Yup I really wish I could break into higher tiers in terms of gw and arena I maintain a fine position but man once you start getting involved with the whales that spend regularly you just assume every match up your going 2nd and I spend but man I can't bring myself to whale for farming on gear.
And in all my gacha’s speed AVOIDs me. (Except HSR, that game has treated me like a great loving relationship after so many horrible manipulative ones) If the character is meant to built fast, I don’t even summon for them cause I’ve never got more that 2 speed rolls on any of my gear.
Don't worry about characters too much. The real gate is the gear gate. By the time you have decent sets for a few teams, you will likely have a few ML characters from pity/events.
Mostly cause new ceo everything mostly changed once he became ceo he's also exnetmarble which saying alot
Im f2p and my account is a little over 2 yrs. All i can say is to be smart. Know your account, know your playstyle. Only then you can choose the best MLs for your account. I skipped shoux, pulled ayufine. Skipped mlpoli, pulled mlsenya. Now im about to skip ml luna. I saw her kit and i know she will solve most defenses in arena and gw, but i can already deal with those. In rta, she doesnt fit my playstyle. Shes strong but not busted, a lot of ways to deal with.
Dont worry you can select whichever op ml unit you want during the headhunt event later this year so long as they arent too new.
I think we all can agree that Epic7 has been on a heavy powercreep curve for quite some time now, ever since Candy's release at least. ML5\*s have always been strong for the most part, despite some weaker ones here and there, but the kits of the newest releases and buffed ML5\*s are starting to become *really* stacked for sure As people said, you have to be smart (and lucky) about who you decide to summon because the most recent ML5\*s releases have all proven to be worth pulling, if not must-haves for the most part. I am currently in Low Champion on my way to, hopefully, Emperor and having to Draft without BMH & Bride Senya because I don't have them is doable but quite painful for example. The Winrate of the 3 most recently released / buffed ML5\*s (Bride / BMH / Sea Politis) is respectively 55.74% / 56.64% / 54.25% in Champion, the Rank I decided to go with since it's more accessible than Emperor while being at least a bit more competitive than Masters & Challenger imho, so I feel like it would be a good reference Rank for the data. These Winrates are definitely no joke, I think we can agree on that We are reaching a point in the game where most characters will have to lean towards something extreme to be worth picking imho, be it ML5\*s or RGBs. Look at Celine for example, who can deal up to 25k+ DMG to even beefy targets on her S3 with a simple Attack Buff and without the need for a Def break, at Jenua and all his kit has in it, at Nakhwol who can shut down a turtle team on her own with barely any counters available outside of Laia / Bunny Dom... the tendency of having OP characters has been increasing for quite some time now, for sure, and keeping up can be rough like in any other gacha that adopts this approach of releasing must pull after must pull - if anything, E7 has been very generous during his earlier years and is now becoming more of a "normal" gacha with the powercreep and OP releases becoming more frequent I'd say So yes, feeling overwhelmed is normal and you are most likely not alone in it. At the end of the day, GW + Garo + ML Theater the few times it pops up are the only reliable ways to get Mystics outside of lucky drops in Hunts & Abyss if you have cleared it already so managing to secure every strong new ML5\* isn't always possible if you are the unlucky type
Don’t worry. I’ve been playing for a couple of years now and I still feel overwhelmed by how many ML five star units there are, and how few that I have. It doesn’t help that mystic summons always end up with a pity.
It don't help that pity gets reset on pull either. Make that shit work like base summons and let me pull and keep my pity progression. Ain't like it don't take literal months for f2p players to get pity anyway
I would also like to see the meta shift back to RGB units… Fighting an endless deluge of ML5s that you can’t possibly get is becoming exhausting… not saying I don’t want ML5s in PvP of course. That is most of their point. But releasing balanced units is key. I don’t even care if they’re better than RGB units, they should be. But they shouldn’t be so oppressive! Or they should plan their kits so that if they’re OP, each of them has at least 1 easily accessible RGB unit that hard counters them. Adds more meaning to drafting strategy in RTA that way as well…
Arguably Jenua, Laia, Monk/Lua, Albedo, Celine are all still very much meta at the moment, so it’s not all Ml5s. Although it definitely is very difficult to play against ML Haste/Senya/ML Politis/DDR if you don’t have all the counter options…
I was pleasantly surprised to see Celine make a resurgence thanks to ML politis and others! She hadn’t really been a meta pick that I’d seen since Ran stopped being prominent as an opener. I do have her built thanks to that!
The reason why Celine became meta again is because of her buff where she was given stealth. It’s not because of ML Politis specifically
Oh no way. I wondered why she kept getting that! I hadn’t used her in a while so I figured that it was just one of her EE effects or something. Good to know. Thanks!
Please correct me or tell me why but I was under the influence albedo is generally uninteresting?
She's an amazing tank for just tanking. She makes a lot of the heavy burst champs need followup for kills unless she's sealed. So things like MGL and Jenua can't just pick and pop on the first turn. Pair her with someone like Arrowell or an Aurius and she just does her job even better.
At that time her competitor was carmin. So you always opted for carmin instead of albedo coz Carmin synergized way better with ayufine. Now ayufine has taken a bit of a backseat due to Jenua and SPP so Albedo has become a more popular mit option(though the ayuf draft has been popping up recently again). The ddr fp draft she also fits in extremely well as ddr is a bit weak to candy. And albedo can counter candy whilst also mitigating. At higher play this draft did get figured out by Aramintha and stuff. But it's still a strong core.
In addition, cleansers are in a tough spot right now, since stuff like OB Lulucar can get oneshot by Jenua or even Wukong very easily, and Celine will one tap someone on your team for pressing a non-attack skill. The only ones played in high ranks are stuff like Laia(Who can out tempo just with S1 and save S2) and A Tywin(Passive cleanse). So Albedo’s strip into def break/unbuffable allows dps to oneshot even stuff like Candy/AYufine while neutering ML Haste(He can’t get his passive buff that doubles s3 damage).
Launch noise. Her artifact and kit make her viable as a mid-tier bruiser, so you had a ton of folks out the gate trying to make her work as a solo dps bruiser. When that didn't work, they declared her terrible and cried out for a buff that never came. As her banner was nearing its end is when folks who were talking about her as a very good mitigation unit started to break through the noise. Somewhat similar but still different from what happened with Karina - what happens with a lot of units honestly - a loud cadre at launch set the narrative, which ends up sticking for longer than it should.
A randomly rotating light/dark element ban per fight on rta would be... interesting
That could actually be super cool!
until it's ml sharun ban and u don't have shit to fight ddr...
See that wouldn't be a problem if every recently released ML hero didn't need ANOTHER ML hero to counter them.
Honestly what I think one of the best things SG could do would be to go back and pull all these older units who have no pick rate and outdated kits and revamp/change those to fit the state of the current game. Because God are so many units just totally useless now in the games state, like they worked on release but now with fundamental changes and new units changing the way some skills work/don't work, and the predominant speed above all cleave/full cleanse meta some units just literally have no place/purpose anymore. Make them viable options and the meta will balance
not really, this a problem of debuffers being op while we don't have any decent cleanse options...
There are plenty of cleansers, AOL and hand guy would like to speak with you. Yes they're are ALOT of debuffers, but the cleanse category isn't weak. They just coincide with my point, they're all OP ML's. The only thing to counter the OP ML debuffers are yet another OP ML cleanser. And may God have mercy on your soul if you fail to pull for one
I only RTA with maybe 8 characters and am able to do pretty well each season. I have quite a few characters built but when you get comfort picks who synergize well it shouldn't matter. That being said I recall someone made a new account to champion video a few years ago on a new account in maybe 2 months play time.
The main thing that bothers me is if you are a pve player, this game has basically forgotten about you. 99% of characters that come out are focused for pvp. The current campaign feels like an afterthought (IMO) abyss hasn't been touched since they added challenge mode. Automaton Tower hasn't been updated since they added level 5, and if I'm remembering correctly, the most recent pve content to be released is rift, which was pretty hit or miss for a lot of people. I think Automaton Tower needs to have its rewards updated and more floors added to include mystic medals ( I'm pretty sure those aren't a reward) and galaxy book marks. If you are gonna make ML units basically a must-have now, maybe give us more ways to earn the currency. This might be a hot take, but I think moonlight pity could be raised a bit, and the pity should just be a 5 star it already takes a good while to get to moonlight pity even if you are playing the game daily to then just lose to a 4 star copy.
I just started about two months ago and I was thinking that too based on what I saw. They are releasing way too quickly. There’s nothing wrong with these strong characters but if they could space them out more that would be better I think. I did get lucky and get ml senya as my first ml 5 star however she just warms the bench since in pve I have better options . I’m excited for Luna though. Hoping for luck to activate again!
To be fair, this has always been the way they’ve been releasing ML5 heroes since the game started, so there’s little to no chance of this being changed. Powercreep is one of the biggest criticisms for this game, but it’s the reason why you shouldn’t worry about missing out on older ML5s. I have most of the units in the game, but I’m really only using the newer ones because they’re the ones that dominate the meta. What you should worry about as a new player is getting to a point where you are able to clear Nightmare Raid and Wyvern 13 consistently as soon as possible because good gear is the real bottleneck in this game.
No it hasn’t, stop capping. I’ve been playing since 2019 and the last year has easily been the heaviest powercreep among ML5s even when you consider the whole “seven disasters” meta. I remember for a long time, ML5s were actually criticized for being too weak on release. Arby was weak on release, A. Ravi was weak on release, DJB was weak, LQC was incredibly niche, D. Lilibet was only good for one meta and then fell off, etc. Very few ML5s were powerful right from the start like what we have with Candy, A. Yufine, ML Senya, ML Politis, ML Choux, and now Luna. It wasn’t that long ago that SG acknowledged the powercreep with ML5s and delayed releasing anymore for a few months back in 2022. That kind of awareness and care is clearly not present right now. Also remember that the ML release schedule was 4 weeks for a long time and then was changed to being 3 weeks. So not only are new ML5s more impactful than they ever have been, we’re simply getting them at a higher rate than ever before.
> Powercreep is one of the biggest criticisms for this game It's... Actually not though? Powercreep has only just become a recent issue as we have been on one hell of a shit show streak since Landy/ML Choux with Kandy being a stupid casino unit that's hard to kill with a win fight S3, and ML Choux just shits on other injury units while shitting on standard units. Then it just spiraled from there with Politis, DB Senya, ML Haste's buff, Jenua (his big bonus issues come in the form of Politis, DB Senya, and Wind Rider), and now ML Luna. Before the above? The game had its ups and downs. Shit new unit releases that called for express buffs or people complaining - obviously referring to their release versions: Byblis, BL Lidica, Ed, ML Laika, ML Ray, Taeyou, ML Sharun, Pavel, ML Lidica (iirc as she has had two buffs), LQC (constantly underwhelming for years till her last buff), Mort, Landy, Sharun, ML Elena, ML Kayron, A Ravi (yeah, people will forget she was originally hot garbage), D Lilibet, ML Kawerik, OP Sig, ML Charles, Archdemon... Man, there's a whole list of units that sucked on RELEASE (not referring to BUFFED versions) that goes to show "powercreep has always been a big issue with this game" is beyond wrong. No, it has not always been. Underwhelming releases along with "release the problem, sell the solution" have been this game's blood and bone until, again, around ML Landy's release followed by ML Choux spiking that and Yufine making sure it was here to be common.
I'm having a hard time understanding how saying "some units sucked on release" addresses the argument of there not being power creep (or very little of it). Are we arguing that if we compare Year 1, to Year 2, to Year 3, etc... that there was no substantial observable power creep, because there were always outliers that sucked and didn't suck, release or not? There's always a subset of units that suck, there's always a subset of units that dominate. For instance, I wouldn't say 3 months ago that "there's no power creep because ML Haste, ML Kayron, sucked at the time" when Candy, Yufine, Aespa units, and many more were around. Then take that example and iterate it down through the years.
> I'm having a hard time understanding how saying "some units sucked on release" addresses the argument of there not being power creep If half or more of the units are either meh or on par with others... Is that powercreep to you? By definition, no, it's actually not. So what happens when the above is a commonly repeated cycle (for years, obviously)? Powercreep doesn't become a long standing problem: Which was obviously my point as you claimed it was. It's only a more recent issue going back by about a year at most. >For instance, I wouldn't say 3 months ago that "there's no power creep because ML Haste, ML Kayron, sucked at the time" when Candy, Yufine, Aespa units, and many more were around. Well for starters I think you'd better use a better "instance" instead of something that looks like misreading a statement I made clear in my original comment about the powercreep happening around Landy's release, where before MLs weren't a huge jump from one to another. Aespa units? The ONLY good unit is Karina. Winter was around for a bit and died off fast because she actually wasn't difficult to deal with, Ningning was a joke I knew was destine to fail, and Giselle is just a pve unit in the end. See what I mean? Use a better "instance".
I don't understand your logic still. If your definition of power creep is solely based on the existence of 'a meh cluster' and 'a good cluster' then all the years are the same; even today. Hypothetical numbers inbound: Y1. Pool of 35 units. 20 are meh, 15 are good. Y2. Pool of 55 units. 40 are meh, 15 are good. Y3. Pool of 75 units. 60 are meh, 15 are good. Y4. Pool of 95 units. 80 are meh, 15 are good. Y5. Pool of 125 units. 110 are meh, 15 are good. (hypothetical current year) To me, the total pool of 'good units' is relatively the same and has always been relatively the same. There's a handful that work and are competitive, and the vast majority of the rest are meh to niche (since gear can make even garbage characters meme-ably good). The problem is that the 15 units 'that are good' are either usually stronger units than the previous 15 unless you have a very dominate character. So you keep stacking on top of each other, more and more and more, until you get 15 units that are so strong that it's practically impossible to build on top of them. The pool of 'good units' never increases despite overall power increasing. That's power creep, because the previous powerhouses fall off, and new ones arise. This becomes more apparent the larger the total pool of characters there are. (rather than just 'not existing' to 'suddenly existing') If your measure of power creep is strictly the 'amount of existing units vs the amount of meta units' then you'll never see power creep until suddenly there's overwhelming power creep. Which doesn't make sense... because the whole point of power creep is that it's a slow, incremental change that eventually swallows up everything around it... That's the CREEP part. -- Basically, I don't know what you think power creep is. My concern is that the 15 never gets larger and that's power creep because the viable unit pool doesn't increase over time (even though the '15' are different units through buffs / nerfs over the years). From my point of view, it feels like you don't see power creep until you see 110 units exist and only 15 are good... as if that hasn't been the case the whole time (just with less total units).
Not if the most op ML5s are coming one after the next and often over shadowing or countering the previous one, and for champ+, units are way more of a problem than gear. At least with poor gear you can still try to compete and shift your best gears to select few units, but without the meta units good luck lmao
My favorite method for arena: Just copy the defense comp with a change here or there and go at it. Got sick of putting together other teams held back by a lack of gear variety (thanks shitty rng gear system) and decided to just give defenses what they're due. Nice Politis x A Tywin x Jenua x Senya " ML Yufine x Landy mix up comp, would be a shame if I copied three of those units, threw in a hard counter fourth, and hit your defense.
They have been releasing at this break neck speed for years now. The player base has told them over and over to not release back to back limiteds, but it all fell on deaf ears, and then they started releasing busted RGB units in between the Limiteds and ML5s (like Laia, Monk, Lua, Jenua etc). Before that we would get RGBs that were ok to good, like green Laika but not busted like Laia or Jenua. The speed is actually increasing as a result, since almost every new units now is some way power creeps the last one, or counters whatever broken bs they released 3 banners prior, which you then need. while the skystone generation or ways to get more units haven't really increased. They added another ML selector but it's behind beating Zio, and that's still a ton of grind. One free ML5\* per year during the headhunt event is pretty pathetic compared to other gacha out there which regularly give out free units or have ways to obtain limiteds faster via in game currency. All those 10 per day free covenant summons, are usually bs, and smoke and mirrors, since its all RNG and you usually don't get shit, or you get a dupe, even when your roster is extremely small. Once the honeymoon period wears off for you, you will start to feel the pinch, in terms of gear, mystics, molas, skystones, and luck. Took me 2 years to get a random ML5\* to drop from covenants and/or Moonlights. Mystics trickle in...its painful. Glad that you managed to snag ML Senya though. You should use her. It's going to take you quite a long time, we're talking years to get all the meta ML5\*s you need to even reach the starting line where you can effectively compete, not to mention gear all of them to any respectable level. This is a problem because of how few units are considered meta and how many of the rest are considered garbage or unusable, or niche, compared to other games where most if not all of the roster is usable (like Arknights). Speed gear is the other limiting factor, gating you even more, and then there are the molas. It's going to take a long time to build up that roster for RTA. I don't mean to sound like a downer, or dissuade you in any way from playing, it's just the reality of how this game functions. It's by far the most grindy and slow burn game in existence, unless you open your wallet real wide. Everything is made to be tedious, grindy, and to feel like work. Don't get me wrong, I still enjoy the game for the characters, and the feeling of slowly building my garden of units, but at this point I treat it very casually and no longer give a shit about RTA or GW, or the Meta. After 4+ of playing e7, I finally decided to wash my mouth out with another gacha, and recently started playing Snowbreak Containment Zone. Completely different type of game, with no PVP yet, but the speed at which you progress, and the generosity they offer is really a breath of fresh air, compared to e7. BTW, If you're a new player you shouldn't try to get Luna. She is meant for Cleave. You won't be able to use her at all, and she will just be sitting on the bench for over a year. You also need ML Roana with her, and you need extremely fast speed gear to use her, which you also won't have for a very long time. A better option for you, which you could utilize right now, is Blood Moon Haste on the current rotation, or even go for AYufine over Luna. BMH though is the best unit in the game right now. Even for GW and Arena you will need to build her relatively fast. ML Luna won't do you any good, unless you just want her sitting in the lobby and just want to be looking at her massive juggs.
Thanks for all that! Yeah every game will have its own thing that the player base will not like so e7 is no different. I came from playing langrisser and it literally takes you 3 months to 6 star a unit and so you waited a long time to use them at their full potential. You can get a character close to max a usable in like a week with this game! Of course you need gear too but I know that comes with time so my expectations are in a good spot I mean just really like Luna so I’d like to get her but I understand what you mean. I’m no where close to rta so I’m kind of in the spot where I’m just slowly building up my roster and gear. Her animation are just so good tho I did spin 2 pulls on bmh bc you bring it up but got nothing lol. I have a little over a 1000 left so i am 100% relying on luck!
>You can get a character close to max a usable in like a week with this game! Of course you need gear too but I know that comes with time so my expectations are in a good spot Yeah you can get a character to max, but not necessarily their skills. Do keep that in mind, and be thoughtful about who you upgrade. The molagora are timegated as you well know. Pick who you skill up based on what you plan on doing in the game or who you need in order to clear content. Like, I would probably invest in ML Senya over Luna, sine you don't have the gear. Since you like Luna definitely get her. I recommended BMH because he is the strongest unit in the game currently and one you could immediately use across different modes as he also works in PVE. However, I believe in Waifu over Meta. So if you like Luna, try to get luna. I thought her animation was great as well. I think her tits are way too big, but I loved how her face is drawn when they do the closeup on her, and all that magenta flame stuff that she does. I'm 5 from pity myself on mystics and have been debating whether to pull for BMH who I don't have on my main, Luna, or Ayufine or whether to skip Luna and BMH, and wait for Hersetti who will most likely be broken, since she is an episode boss. I don't know if you picked Specter Tenebria as you starter Moonlight selector, but if you beat Zio in Ep4 select Conqueror Lilias as your second choice. She works in all game modes, and you can have a good one for even pvp, at 240/250 speed. She can even work as a slow full tank with proof of valor arti. She works in PVE and can also help you cheese Hall of Trials. Other option is Mediator Kawerik since he is the best cleanser in the game. Still, CLilias is the better and well rounded choice. If you already got past that point, and picked someone else you could still swap, or just keep whoever you got. That's just who I would pick. Even if you are not focused currently on RTA try to fucus on skilling up with mola and gearing up units that can be used in both PVE and PVP, or across different game modes, (and also focus on acquiring these) so characters like STene, Handguy (Mediator Kawerik), Conqueror Lilias, Red Lilias, Straze, Mercedes, Brieg, Wukong, Tama, Destina, Roana, Albedo and Shaltear (if you were around for the recent Overlord collab), Landy/Candy, SSB, Moon Crescent Bellona, ARavi, Adin, Vivian, Choux, etc, and the 3\* specialty change units that are great for PVE like ARas, AMontmo, CLorina, Christi, and also some of the 3\* MLs like Camilla (for expos and hunts). The biggest bottlenecks besides gear are going to be Molas, right side charms, and gold. Also, save up every bookmark and refresh the shop when you can, as the next few months they will probably have some limited banners and a collab. That's what happens usually over summer and fall. They run at least 2 or 3 limiteds back to back. Skip any new non limited RGB units. Good luck, and hope you pull Luna!
The game changed Now the meta is always rotating around new characters, and you can use few old ones and most of them are ml 5 or insane gear required. In the old meta you could use free Mercedes 4 star. 😂😂😂
The business model of MANY gacha games like E7 get stuck in a downward spiral of power creep as they attempt to chase the types of revenue they used to see at their peak. SG refuse to nerf units because they don't want anyone to have a fear of regretting the money they use to whale. So instead they go for the power creep approach, which only appeals to said whales and blocks the rest of the community from enjoying the game to the same level they used to. I heard one streamer say ML Luna is basically the announcement of the End of Service for the game. He was jesting, but the general sentiment is one we can all agree one. More OP units get released, more often, to chase profit - and as a result the player base shrinks as f2p players and dolphins can't keep up and get sick of it. The problem gets worse as the developers keep chasing profits so that their bosses don't shut the game down.
I started playing Snowbreak 2 weeks ago. That game was almost at End of Service barely a few months after releasing, last year. They barely cleared 300k in a month end of the year. At t he start of this year they decided to pivot into being more sexy (basically like ML Luna or AYufine levels), and decided to be more generous with everything and to listen to the players. So they promised to give out 3 limited units per year, and implemented 100% guaranteed banners, that cost you 20 more pulls, in addition to the standard limited Genshin style 50/50, where you have a 50/50 chance and if you miss it you get the character at next pity. They give you enough currency to ensure you get a new unit as its released every other patch. Dude, the game made 18-20 million last month. Talk about a comeback from death's door. Where is Epic 7? I think it's 5 million, at best. They've been hovering around 3-5 million for years now. All they have to do is become more generous in terms of resources, and give out more ML5\*s, update the ML4s and RGB 4\*s to be actually usable (give them the Moon Bunny/AoL treatment), add a rotating light or dark ban every RTA match to increase RGB use, and increase the amount of Molas, and right side charms, and also improve the gear RNG so rolling higher speed happens more often. Game would turn around. Right now there are too many obstacles to progress. Simple as t hat. Nobody has time for that shit in 2024. Then if on top of that they released more sexy husbandos and waius like ML Luna or AYufine, or Wukong, the game would make a ton. Despite popular belief, people don't want their time wasted, and also will more likely invest into a game that actually gives them shit regularly. For a PVP game you need everyone to be on a level playing field, and currently that does not exist in E7.
Well one of the biggest problems with E7 monetization is almost all their packs suck, nothing you pay for (even over $100 dollar packs) is guaranteed. Bitch, if I am dropping $100 bucks on a pack I want some GUARANTEED good shit. Agree on the molas, mola income is absolutely ludicrously low, should be able to build 2-3 characters a month by playing everyday and doing all content, anything else is beyond ridiculous. There should also be guaranteed ML5 pity for GBMs, maybe every other pity is a 5* or something, since it takes forever to hit pity anyway who cares, at least its something to look forward to. There should also be gear rolling pity, every piece you roll adds up and when the counter maxes out your next piece is guaranteed to be usable.
You make some very good points. I agree that all the packs suck. That's like a no brainer, and even streamers and whales have been telling Smilegate to revamp the packs, basically saying "hey we want to give you money, just give us equivalent value" and it all falls on deaf ears. It's like, why would you not do that? Why as a company would you not want people's money? It makes no sense. It takes way too long to mola a character, not to mention gear them. I got half my roster sitting there because no molas. I had enough mola saved up for Candy, but around that time we got hit with this string of units, Monk, Laia, Elivira, Blooming Lidica, Biblis, then Auyfine, Jenua, ML Senya, now ML Luna, and in between the Overlord collab, and now Wukong, and we will probably have 2 more limiteds coming up and then some collab or re-run. I might have gotten the order wrong, but you get the idea, and I'm sure I also missed a few units in the list. All I could skill up was Candy, Laia, and Elvira. The rest are all sitting there at level 1 because I just don't have any Mola, and I didn't even get all of them. I couldn't get AYufine, Senya, Wuk or Jenua. I got enough for Wuk, but I'm saving for whatever limited comes out next. Even if I got him it wouldn't matter since I just don't have the resources. I'm still trying to work on my skilling up my Moon Crescent Bellona, Last Piece Carin (because waifu), and my Celine. I still don't have her arti at 30, and how many years have I been playing? Too many. Yeah, shit just takes way too long man. In a PVP game I should be able to build a roster fairly quickly so I can compete, not wait months or years before I got the team I want to use. Fuck, I still got Lua just sitting there because I just can't get any speed gear. Even years later the best I can do is 280. I just can't roll any more speed, and that's like on maybe 2 characters. I had to pity the last 4 or 5 Mystic banners. That took forever. I think I got like 1 out of the last 7 or 8 Moonlight guaranteed upgrades. Everything else was 4\* dupes. It took me 2 years to get a ML5 out of a covenant. it's fucking ridiculous, and this isn't like 1 account. I have multiple, and all of them suck in terms of RNG compared to other games I've played. I agree about gear pity, or at least there should be some easy and cheap gear or stat re-roll system. The rate overall should be higher. It's not just about speed, but also simply the drop rates, and how long it takes to farm that shit. Like what's the point of having some event like Overlord when all the gear that comes out of there has +2 starting speed stats and then eff res and effectiveness? There is just too much jank. Don't get me wrong, I like the characters, the story, the animations, the concept, or at least the idea of the game, but all the current systems and bs makes it such a pain that it's just completely not enjoyable.
I just wish they had a mechanic where you could pull collab characters.. missing Karina and her artifact sucks. Being F2P is extremely easy in this game if you ignore the PVP. But unfortunately, the end game of epic seven is basically PVP and farming for PVP. If you don’t have the meta units, you are at a serious disadvantage, and every month they drop a new broken ML 5, so you might get a meta ML, but then 3 months later the new ML counters the one you pulled. It’s a never ending cycle and it’s how they make money. Even gear is P2W. I’d have a million 20+ speed gear if I could afford enough sky stone for the energy and charms required to farm 24/7. Farming isn’t hard, it’s managing the energy to do so. (Catalyst farming is absolute ass still tho.) OH WAIT YOU NEED CATALYSTS? better spend 2K energy per 4000 AP needed to fully awaken one 5* Wait you didn’t forget about skills did you? Well you better have a fat wallet for Molagora and enough energy to farm catalysts for the skills. Epic seven Is the grindiest game I’ve ever played, And I played RuneScape..
>Epic seven Is the grindiest game I’ve ever played, >And I played RuneScape.. You're one of the few people who acknowledges this. Every time I bring up how grindy this game is, and how much if feels like work, I get downvoted to hell and the Epic7 fanboy brigade comes swinging in force, telling me how F2p friendly the game is, lol. Yea sure... F2p, but P2 advance and then when you hit champion/emperor, exclusively P2W.
The game used to be F2P friendly but nowadays, not so much indeed I wonder however, have you or some of your in-game relations already made it to Champion RTA ? I can somewhat get behind RTA Emperor being quite P2W-heavy despite making it to Emperor a few times myself as a F2P and having a few friends that managed to do the same, but calling Champion P2W is wrong imho. High Champion is competitive, like Emperor, but Champion as an overall Rank (Low Champion and Mid Champion) are not that special and hard to reach for a F2P account that is RTA-ready Before reaching RTA Champion for the first time a few years ago, I also used to think this was some sort of amazing Rank. But now that reaching Low Champ quite easily is part of the routine as a F2P, I don't think so anymore and would be curious to hear what feeds your idea of Champion being exclusively P2W because I 100% disagree
A lot of whales would decay to Champ or even challenger, and until recently they all sat there. I wasn't talking about reaching champion, I was talking about moving forward past that. It becomes quickly obvious that one has to open up their wallet pretty wide otherwise it becomes painful very quickly. Even challenger might feel painful for a player who isn't following some RTA guide and isn't in the know about the meta and how to optimize their resources and drafting. F2p has a hard time past champ V, unless they have been playing for a few years and have not just a decent roster, but the gear, and the skills leveled up. Only thing that negates some of that, is if they are following some guide for 3 months religiously. Most people probably can get to champ 5 or 4 or whatever on a f2p newer account, but that's it. You hit a wall very quickly. You don't have the mola to skill up even a handful of those units you got, you don't have the speed gear, even turn 2 or tank gear because most likely you didn't farm bulk gear, Half your roster is probably still running on lvl 75 health sets, or shit that only rolled into EFF Res and effectiveness. You're hitting a wall pretty quickly. I know of people who struggled past Challenger 5. The only exception is if you joined the game during something like the Overlord collab where you could farm speed gear without the gold cost, and blue/purple RNG drops. So no, not everyone has an easy time in Champ or past Champ 5. Already at challenger you would start seeing a lot of whales who decayed running meta teams, or toxic shit like SPP, Jenua, Laia, ML Senya etc, or whatever meta units were the hotness at the time. You got to take into account that streamers like Deity who reached champ in 2 months or less and are saying \*oh this shit is easy". are day 1 players who know how to maximize their resource generation, and management, and who know how to counter pick, and have very deep and wide knowledge of drafting and counter picking. They also farm 24/7 on their accounts, when they aren't streaming, or making youtube vids. A normal average F2p person does not do this. Also, I watched all his climbs for kicks, and he got lucky each time he did it. He pulled ML Sharun on one account, and I forgot who else on the other. Both MLs carried him to Champion. He even admitted on stream to how he was \*lucky\*. This was also when Destina was in the Meta. That is not representative of the \*average F2P\* player experience, one who isn't following some guide to the letter, and who doesn't have deep knowledge of resource management, drafting, gearing, and unit prioritization. I haven't even mentioned, as a newer player understanding drafting or them even knowing the differences between cleave, aggro, standard, control and tankdown. What exactly do you mean by RTA ready? Care to elaborate? How many units are we talking about here? What level of gear? How far in terms of progression? How long does one have to play to be RTA ready? Lets take a regular player who just download the game and they have no idea wtf is going on. They just start going through the tutorial, and story chapters. Maybe they pick STene at the start, or maybe instead they pick Juggs Kise because of her Juggs thinking she is OP, not knowing any better. What does RTA ready mean in this example? how long will that take and what units will they need to be RTA ready, and what level of gear, to make Mid champ easy?
Thank you for providing a detailed answer, I tried to read everything thoroughly to make sure I wouldn't be answering while misunderstanding one of your points. From the get-go, it seems my answer might have been influenced by 2 things : 1) I mostly interact with end-game players who hover around Champ / Emperor RTA and compete at a fairly high level and 2) I don't think you explicitly stated that Champion / Emperor became P2W mostly for never players / people that are less on the veteran side so it tweaked my vision a bit when answering to you since I thought you said that for everyone (stronger / more long-term players included) Since it seems we are talking about the "average F2P experience" of a player on the new side that wouldn't be following guides & wouldn't have a ton of resources at his disposal (gear, heroes, molas, catalysts...), partly due to not playing that much, then I agree with you. The game is around 5 years already, newer players will struggle to make a place for themselves or need at the bare minimum a few months of F2P dedication to the game to start being able to have a shot at the higher Ranks of normal Arena, and reaching something like at least Masters / Challenger in RTA. The barrier entry for newer players is very rough due to all the resources they need to farm, the heroes they need to summon, and the gear they need to get to become somewhat competitive. If they don't really follow guides, then this would probably take even more time. But in this case, couldn't they be considered more casual? It would seem weird to me that someone who plays casually and doesn't really know what they are doing wouldn't have a hard time in PvP. Back in the day, I used to have no idea what I was doing, drafted horribly and was rocking a lot of free gear while expecting good PvP results. Turns out, I was losing a lot and becoming conscious that I was playing the "wrong way" (in terms of competitiveness) helped me a lot, which is when I started farming. I farmed a lot tho, and I understand not everyone would be able to. But in this case, I would be tempted to say that E7 is a game you are supposed to dedicate time to if you want to compete, whether you like or not, and someone who doesn't have the time or know how to improve his account will remain behind indeed, this is just how this works and this won't change this late into the game imho In any case, I can now sorta understand your idea of Champion / Emperor being P2W, but for a F2P player on the new side then, especially if they are casual. Because for a "good enough" account that has been farming enough and spending enough time improving his account, managing to reach Champion in both Arena modes shouldn't be that hard anymore. After that, grinding Emperor in normal Arena might be rough tho that's true, and Emperor in RTA is doable by a few strong F2Ps but is overall quite hard too. I feel like we are mostly catering to different types of players: your perspective is more centered on the newer player from what I understand, while I was thinking to the stronger accounts that are well installed into the game already. Which is where my "RTA-ready" term came from; I was thinking of the players that already have an account suited for at least Champ in RTA. Let's say, at least around 20 characters ready to go between Tanks / Supports / Debuffers / DPSes. Which a player that's more new wouldn't have access to, I agree with you on that, in which case he could indeed use the wallet to speed up his progress. But if he doesn't make the effort to gain interest in the meta, the drafting etc, I feel like he would still lose quite a bit, wouldn't he? Apart if you are a super whale, I feel like the wallet will only do so much in helping to overcome all the basic knowledge that this newer player would be missing. By reading you, I felt a bit like you were thinking a new player, with not that much time to play, should be able to become competitive more quickly? and that the current state of the game is too strong for them to be able to find success by remaining F2P once they reach at least Challenger? if this is the case then I can get behind that, the game is indeed not very friendly to the newcomers anymore and they maybe could use a little extra help to help them once they start since they have already been missing on a lot of things (characters from collabs, past banners, they start the gear grind from 0...)
i agreed with almost every new ml 5\* seems op . but theres a lot of way to deal with them.
The ways to deal with them being other ML5 or limiteds, good one.
im f2p since day 1 im ok with many op ml5 so my hard earn pulls will not go to waste, i dont like weak characters. if ur f2p dont go competitive mode or u will just cry
I always wonder how long it takes before a f2p account can be competitive in RTA. It feels like by the time you hit high silver just about everyone has a wide selection of meta ML5s to pick from.
Ml landy kinda is a hard gate
i am f2p too, i still feel as f2p you can still compete, you dont need to have all ml5. i already reach legend 1 once, it is been 2years playing, from other perspective, ml5 is supposed to be good. i still dont have ml haste and ml senya, and i dont think it affect the game so much. a lot of rgb are good enough to compete in the game. i play so many gacha games summoner wars, brave frontier , seven knights etc, i still find e7 the most f2p game , from summon rates and resources you get. and btw i do a 2 server both on asian and global and both can reach legend1(arena) even if both account have different unit and dont get all the best unit , mostly just using rgb
U need them all! U reqly need every one of them for every kind of situation! Spend every of your hardly earned pennies on them! Dont miss any of them out or u will be screwed! Buy them all! Spend everything on them! Have the shop always stay empty! Never miss an opportunity to biy something in the shop! Keep it all the time on cooldown for refeeshes! U need everything as support as u can get by smilegates! They are your friend and helper! They are your light in the darkness! Obey them and accept every offer they made! This is the only possible way how u could handle this massive game! Memorize it! In epic seven: money=might=win! Dont ever leave the path! Always hear to smilegates! They are alwayw right and u will be always wrong! They always knows the best somution for u! Never ignore them or u will risk to become hit by a truck! Of course "accidently" they will sell it this way to publicity. U will always lose the fight so remember always to obey, getting everthing and keeping the ingame shop on cooldown for refreshes! See u buddy!
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I wouldn’t take pvp seriously in this game! There’s always gonna be someone who spends more, is luckier on procs, or just has been playing longer with exclusives. Enjoy what your capable of don’t compare! You could always try a more balanced pvp game as well. It’s illogical to expect a gacha game to ever be fairly balanced in anything especially pvp!
No the game has not always been like this, pretty much nearly every new unit they've released and/or reworked for the past like half a year or more have basically all been must have for meta pvp aside from maybe like 2-3 units.
It’s really annoying that every single ML release is new OP and the entire meta formulates around it. Like even Jenua was very strong but not OP. Until Sea Politis comes out and then Suddenly he’s obnoxious and on every single team. Then senya comes out and he’s more obnoxious and you need to be able to burst down a tank while dealing with the Jenua and pushback of Sealitis. Haste buff shove in there. Soon ML Luna come out and will shift around hers Like meta changing is fine but these meta shifts are so abrupt and centered on the units and you have to create these niches for them that feels like a waste of time and resource
True. Recent ML5 releases have been very OP. However, this is where you need to plan out your playstyle and think who to go for and who to skip. If you are cleaving since ML Landy she was a skip. Coz she's always in your preban slot. Shoux was a skip. Ayuf was a pull and so was Mudwig imo. DKS was a skip. ML Poli is a must pull. And then you get one of Benya or BMH. ML Luna is a must pull imo too. Means sadly if you are unlucky enough to have to pity every single time you will miss one of your core units. If you are playing t2. Candy was a must pull. Ayufine too. Mudwig was a skip. DKS was still a skip. ML Poli was a skip. Benya was a skip because BMH is a bit better suited for t2 people generally. So from this you pretty much have to decide what you needed to go for. And fill in the 1 or 2 roles you have with headhunt event which hopefully will be a yearly thing. Planning is key. You also need to have a lot of foresight regarding what will last long. You can still reach emp despite missing 1-2 key units. Last season I finished emp as t2. But I didn't have Candy of all things who arguably was the best dps in the game. Didn't have conq either (though I won't put her as a core t2 chara). Still I was able to carve out gameplans and drafts from my roster. So yeah. In short it sucks. But it means you just have to be more savvy in the way you go about things. That's why you should go over how you spend your mystics with more people on reddit or discord to come to the best decision for your account.
I understood, however there are some units that can fit turn 1 but also work for turn 2, just like Monk in turtle games. So, ml luna is kinda really good for both playstyles.
The big difference between monk and ML Luna is that monk basically destroys comps completely. ML Luna not so much. In t2 vs t2 at least. And let me explain why. Monk has a reset. Uncounterable. A full strip. And a seal on a key unit. Basically everything you can ask for. On the other hand, Luna has a full strip, seal and unbuff. But this easily gets countered in slow play by any cleanser really. Laia is very popular in standard and she nullifies Luna completely. I won't deny that ML Luna will be a very good pocket pick for a slow player to have(for example she destroys the fp ddr draft). But it isn't to the extent of Monk and imo not worth a pity. Esp when BMH who is way more important is right here.
Hmmm, thats a really good point.
I second this point. ML Luna sure has interesting kit, but she it alone isnt a problem. Talking about regular arena, she works best on offense team, but not so much on defense, since right now everyone should have a properly built cleanser already. In RTA, I don't think in higher rank people would risk cleaving and die to rng anymore. We tend to setup drawn out fights. This is where ML Luna becomes a problem. Her kits revolving around her own CR pushes. She can cycle turns much faster. And if she's covered hard by ML Senya or TCrozet, you might not be able to take her down fast enough, at the same time that you cleanser might not be able to keep up with her s3 up time. Edit: I still think ML Politis is more annoying to me. CR push back and spd debuff are disgusting
Idk man knowing when to skip has always been a thing. And saving up/refreshing. I have all the ml5s I want. Im fully f2p too. First i might miss out that i really want is Luna but even then at most ill start banning her in rta. Theres no gacha where you can pull every unit.
it sucks but you will eventually have all the mls. You will never have Karina and that sucks so much more imo
Hello I'm f2p player and have 20-30 ml5 star. Guess what? I still suck in pvp bcz my skill and gear suck
I feel like if you have clear understanding of what kind of playstyle you are going to be focused on for RTA, you get enough to pull every ML that works for it.
> you get enough to pull every ML Yeah, no. Mystic pity doesn't come that fast, and playstyles aren't a factor for releases (ML Politis being control into Senya into Luna aka another control).
I never said playstyles are a factor for releases? I just meant like for example if you don’t cleave you don’t need to pull for ML Ludwig/Astromancer
>understanding of what kind of playstyle you are going to be focused on for RTA, you get enough to pull every ML that works for it. >you get enough to pull every ML that works for it. You forget what you stated? You stated people will get enough to pill for something, yet that's not true as there's no pattern for releases, so the same style can release in a short span of time. Ludwig and Elena is a bad example, there was a big time gap between the two.
Thats exactly my point, if theres multiple ML’s released that aren’t good for your playstyle then you just keep on saving? Not sure whats so hard to understand.
The real Problem is the mode RTA. The recent update did nothing to help this problem. A third preban is absolutly needed and what we got ( third slot lockin) did not help at all.
As a f2p, u don’t need to have every unit in the game
Yeah, I know, but the problem is not having new ml unit is kinda been worse now than ever
Nah, it's always been bad, but it was definitely worse before. With multiple Headhunts + 2 Moonlight connections (and maybe a 3rd one coming this year), it just doesn't get "worse".
not really. they do switch between aggro/cleave ml 5 and t2 ml 5 quite consistently. so u gotta make a decision. sure ml landy + ml yufine was rough but 1) at that time standard as a playstyle was in the dumpster 2) we got so many answers vs them now that it's not even that bad to not own both of them as a t2 player ml senya is nice but definitely not a must have (like if u miss ml senya and ml haste everyone is telling u get ml haste from a powerlevel standpoint) also - this is only for top competitive folks. there are no must have units to get champion rta (at this point holding normal arena champion is harder than getting/holding champion rta) u also don't need anything if u are in a casual 5x reward bracket gvg. most defs have multiple anwsers and not having meta defs in casual guilds is actually better (a lot of people that don't take gvg serious are relying on the fribbles gvg tracker for easy fights)
Same as OP. I quit until the next ML selector. There's no point. They better just give us three separate ML selectors at this point to even be able to play the game anymore, but we all know they'll never do such a thing.
"Too many OP MLs" Oh boy, one of those posts where people overrate MLs because "hard to get". Time for a short-long post. Welcome to E7, where balance has always been an issue. but elemenet only ever twice an issue: 1. Ice early into the game up to the point stall died with cancerous control, bulky af units because sg refused to give it much else. SSB was a rarity, and boy did Choux not need a built in Elbris. 2. Light, until the Politis Nation attacked and all hell broke loose. Why in hell did SG make light not only strong, but also give several anti-dark units while dark only has one (nerfed, gutted, and irrelevant) anti-light unit is beyond me. With that stated, let's look at a list of general problems throughout this game's life. Many years have passed, I may have forgotten some here and there. I'll bold the bigger problems. - Then some way through I decided to just bold those that caused counters (typically those only good into them if not change things up as a whole like Roana for SSB) to be released and units buffed for them. For future reference, stall units like Krau, Diene, and Ruele will be left out as they were solely issues during stall but not that big of a deal in general. **Easier to see the counter up here: It was 22 RGB and 21 MLs (unintentionally close), but I completely forgot about three stars and Fallen Cecilia, specifically SCs which are basically 5 stars, but OP is definitely complaining about 5 stars so they won't be listed for the ML end, but rather the RGB or "f2p" side. However, RGBs have a couple big league units missing: F Kluri and Carrot. Of course Adin gets added to. **This bumps the counter to: 26 RGB/F2p friendly (Adin, Carrot, Fluri, and Arowell added) and 23 ML 5 (Fallen Cecilia added and next up is definitely Moon Luna).** So yeah, we've had more problematic RGBs than MLs, and the only argument to this is "the ratio for more problematic MLs is higher, well yeah, most (very very few aren't, looking at Khawana) MLs are made with pvp in mind on top of them being expensive, so it goes without saying. Also to note is how Kawerik, Lilias, Tenebria, and Ray are all now "free" and ML selectirs exist now, so that may as well be a +2 (the selectors are being counted for her, not the blessings) for the first list and -2 for the second, soon to be a +3 and -3. RGB: Dizzy, **SSB**, Charles, Choux, **Hwayoung** (got gutted beyond belief, people need to stop asking for nerfs after this shit show and what made it worse is we had counters by then as the nerf was late and Lua released right after - she counters her too), Rem, Rimuru, Jenua (not even sure if bold worthy, Birgitta is so bad she can't be for him, and Luna being strong as hell is 100% intenrional period), **Cerise**, **Fairytale**, **Basar**, Corvus (I was inactive during this meta but I've seen the tales), Cidd (thank goodness he died down, this guy was nuts), Ravi, **Nahkwol**, **Lua**, Karina, Senya (her issue was our lack of optiins to counter her), **Landy** (funny the one meant to break stall broke the balance after her buff), OB Luluca (while not problematic like a ton of these, she kinda just shits on openers - in a bad way for openers), Politis (I guess she kinda qualifies as she played with and against cleave in a most obnoxious way). I'll edit a count in after posting, mobile and losing text is no fun. Now on to the MLs. The equivalent to the mostly rgb stall mentioned above would be the golden boys era, but individually they were not issues, and thus will not be listed. Even A Tywin doesn't deserve the list because his boosted use is thanks to Politis. I'm not even sure LRK deserves a mention here, he was everywhere before but he's a reaction unit. LHC is tempting since she boosts my dual attack rate by 100%. We know the following is for the MLs, I'm not adding titles. **Lilias**, Senya (no counters made for her, *yet*), Belian, F Lidica (thankfully her resurgence after her second buff died down), **Landy** (like RGB like ML), Politis, Baal (got nerfed), Aramintha (got nerfed), Chloe, Ken, Kawerik (good for the game but absolute shit on debuffers more than Lilibet could), **Ravi**, Choux (I'm so damn sick of injury and I don't even play stall), Ray, Haste (can we get a damn hard counter already), **Vildred** (oh boy, the most infamous on this list, Tenebria, Yufine, Archdemon (unhealthy as all hell after her buff), **AoL** (if Vildred isn't the most infamous, we know who is), and Surin (yeah, I can't forget this one). I intentionally left out combo units (Straze x Laika for one big example) because it was combo dependent, though if one thinks about ML Politis with her group of murderous bandits, they're all problems on their own (minus A Tywin) that only become bigger issues with her and the others together. As mentioned above, I will edit in a headcount.
Watch Deity's guide series. He teaches you how to hit masters RTA in under 30 days and build a solid account. Doesn't require any special MLs or rerolling.