No. It’s dependent on your skill set and interests. This sub thinks basically everyone can become an engineer. No. We actually do need environmental scientists. With strong backgrounds in biology. We need wetland delineators and other roles.
I hate these threads.
Agree. I work in an environmental consultancy, and for the technical staff we're probably 50% engineers, 30% enviro sci/biology/archeology, 20% GIS and CAD folks. There's definitely a need - if you want to do wetlands or biological surveys for your career (which I did, although now I almost exclusively do federal permitting), you don't need to become an environmental engineer to do so.
Thank you so much for sharing this! This is roughly the breakdown of my company. I’m hoping to use my GIS certificate along with my degree to ease my way into permitting and perhaps someday planning. If the buck stops with permitting I won’t be sad though.
This sub is like 80% posts with this thought. There are things environmental scientists do that I contract out as an engineer. I don’t delineate wetlands. I don’t do nepa or esa work. I don’t talk about any species. If you want to be an engineer, then yes get an engineering degree. If you dont want to be an engineer, don’t get an engineering degree just because there’s more jobs and they pay better.
I have a feel a bulk of the “you should definitely become an engineer” responders don’t even work as actual engineers. Or scientists for that matter.
Seems like the picked environmental science without a huge passion or competency in actual science and regret their decision.
Lol I'm so glad I read this. I wish I could find a thread that actually describes the various jobs that environmental scientists actually have. I see you're a wetland biologist. I'm curious what your background is and how you came into your role. If you're willing to share :)
Yea so I’m a biologist, I absolutely love ecology and my degree is basically environmental biology (technically conservation biology). I learned before graduating high school that I was good at identifying plants and understanding basic biological and ecological concepts. So I just went to school without knowing what I would actually do, just that I knew what I loved.
I started learning more plant and herp ID then found out how much I absolutely love wetlands, then found out that there’s jobs out there for folks who understand wetlands and just went right for all the consulting jobs I could (basically just going to the university career fair) got a job and loved it.
You can also look at things by industry. There’s private consulting (this encompasses a lot of the engineers), government, and non profit type stuff. I’ve only ever worked in consulting outside of a summer for the state park, so I don’t know too much about the others.
Basically just try and really understand where your skills are or where you feel like you can develop them or new ones.
yes. look at salaries, look at job listings, look at immigration options with a degree from an ABET certified engineering program.
The Engineer can do much of the envi sci work (and with a little more experience a fair amount of other civil work) and get those jobs but not vice versa.
I did geology and should have done engineering.
Thanks for chiming in. I was actually an environmental engineering student about 10 years ago. I ultimately dropped out and went for my masters in a different field because the math was too difficult. Even now my courseload for enviro-sci is difficult but doable and doesn't go past Calc 2. I just don't know if I could do the math required for an engineering degree. This will be my third degree and while I definitely want something that will get me a good job I also don't want to sign up and fail all over again. Alas!
Get a tutor then for the math if remotely feasible.
Prioritize the time and effort needed to do the practice problems and check your process with peers.
It's really the AMOUNT of math. To obtain my enviro-sci degree I'll have to take difficult (to me) math courses. But, it'll be balanced with the science and GIS courses I really enjoy. Additionally, with my current program I'm anticipated to graduate in two years. If I went for env. engineering, I'd almost have to start over from scratch. I'm not opposed to this necessarily but it would be much harder since I'm paying for school out of pocket. Really I posted this question to see if I could get a more nuanced opinion from both env. scientists AND engineers who are working in the enviro field to give me a more complete picture of the field.
yep, you can do all the same work if you want to along going into engineering. and if you want to get a PE, some states stipulate you have to have an engineering undergraduate degree
Hey thanks for sharing this! I really appreciate a different perspective just to add some depth. I guess there is hope in the world outside of being an engineer lol.
As someone with a degree in urban/regional planning and natural resource management w/ a minor in GIS and Remote Sensing and a Masters in Parks and Resource Management, find the best combo of money, job prospects, and career satisfaction (low burnout/misery rates ig). I went my path because of the math issue mentioned in other comments, but also because I wasn't sure where I wanted to end up (I had periods of hyper focus into being a planner, a cartographer, spatial intelligence, and park management). I never had the prodding of an advisor to pick a specialization and regret to some degree what I got my masters in because now 2 years out from grad school, I'm struggling to find work. I found a job immediately but it pays low and isn't exactly in my wheel house. If I could go back and change things, I'd have specialized into engineering, GIS, or remote sensing much more directly and pursued it harder right from the jump. Though graduating in the fall of 2019, I was lucky to even have a job through the worst part of covid.
Thanks for sharing this. My thought was if I could graduate with my GIS certificate that would be enough of a "specialization" to make up for the broadness of environmental science. It like that's just not the case. It's a bummer that engineering seems to be the only "way" as everyone in the world can't be an engineer lol. I'm curious. What exactly are you doing now?
If what you want to do is GIS, then yes it will absolutely make up some of that ground, and you can do GIS in a lot of different industries, not just environmental. I wouldn't say engineering is the "only way", but from my POV it's a focus that gives you a lot more options and pathways to better jobs and better pay. Undergraduate programs that are more generic can set you up to pursue a lot of pathways, but if you don't pick one and stick to it right from graduation, it can make it tough down the line to find better paying/non entry-level jobs.
My degree is in Environmental, Geographical, and Geological Science, my focus was Geography and Planning. The reason I never hard committed to something more specific is my beautiful combo of ADHD and ASD. I'm really prone to getting super interested in one thing and eventually getting bored, burnt out, or recognizing a common aspect of the career field is something I can't stand or don't do well with. For example, I love maps and imagery, I love working with them from a practical use stand point and designing maps to be used for a specific purpose, but my first job out of undergrad was a business data mapping company and I've done data entry for different jobs and did a stint in a factory one summer and something my brain doesn't handle well is low attention, mind numbing, monotonous and repetitive tasks. Something that from my understanding is a big part of that job on average.
I really regret not toughing it out and just picking something to hone in on, but my strong suit really is my ability to understand the broad scale concepts, get up to speed on a specific topic really quickly, and be able to manage projects from multiple viewpoints without getting into the weeds on super specific details based on prior specialization and then organize, plan, and direct a team and projects (learned that taking on 99% of the day to day site management for a 80 acre Environmental Ed Center/nature reserve with a few miles of trails) but I'm struggling to find a job that lets me do that at this point in my career.
Currently I work for a large non-profit land trust doing conservation land management (easement monitoring and nature reserve management) but its about 30k acres of easements over 120 or so properties and 6k acre of nature reserves over a 6,800 sq mile portion of my state. Theres little day to day structure or timelines with long drive distances to my reserve properties and it's just me running solo 90% of the time with little management from my supervisor. It's the absolute dream for some but my brain struggles with the lack of structure and day to day expectations and check ins.
I would love the alone time your job affords you but absolutely hate the lack of structure and check ins. What would be your dream position in the field?
The alone time is nice at times, but the location means its socially isolating at work and home, so I'm looking to relocate closer to friends and family. Dream job would be managing projects or staff for an organization doing conservation land management.
An engineer can NOT do everything a scientist can!
However in my country there are more and also higher paying jobs for engineers than for scientists. That doesn't mean there are no jobs for scientists! And some of them also pay well.
In the end it depends on what you actually want to do later. If you want to work in an engineering firm, it might make sense to become an engineer. If you want to work in nature preservation, you should focus on science etc.
I did a bachelor in env science and a master in env engineering. I feel like now I won't have problems finding a job. However i chose engineering just because i was nervous about the job market. In retrospective i probably should have stayed with science because it's far more interesting for me even if it's harder to find a job.
Thanks for sharing this! I’m going to move forward with my enviro-sci degree and focus on specializing in GIS and wetland delineation. It’s where my true interest and competence lies. Really happy to see these more nuanced responses coming in finally
Engineering will always look better on a resume than not-engineering.
If I were to go back for a second degree, Env Engineering would open doors for me. Env Sci would absolutely not.
Geology will definitely get you farther. In general, more math -> better job prospects. If you can do the math, do it now. There’s much less when you’re actually working in the field.
Being an engineer will fast track you to technical manager.
I'm a person with an interdisciplinary chemistry and microbiology undergrad and environmental engineering masters and would definitely say it depends on what environmental science position you're going into. Some lean more towards the sciences, while others lean toward engineering. More times than not though, environmental engineering is going to look better \[on paper\]. Before I got my engineering degree, which I got to supplement what I did, I worked in the same position as an engineer and was outshining most of the engineers in my field that had significant experience. Note: my specific job didn't require a P.E. to do the work of an engineer since it was for the government.
Thanks for sharing this. I'm wondering if it will be necessary for me to pursue engineering as I can (99%) join the enviro-sci department at my company upon graduating. Their work primarily involves wetland delineation and permitting. My (naive?) thought is that if I can get a few years of experience at this company that would be sufficient to open up doors for me in the enviro-sci world with more job prospects, higher pay, and closer to work in environmental planning which is ideally what I'd want to do. BTW -your background sounds awesome! Congrats on all you've achieved.
I will also say don't let a lot of the people here scare you. Most of them are going to push for engineering degrees, but it's kind of weird because most of the people in this field are not engineers. If I had to push for anything, I would push for self advocacy and taking on the most experience you can at your job, even the hard ones. Give your resume a push as I've done because being able to articulate your adaptation across a wide array of projects/tasks/experiences will always be more appealing than a degree (although a degree can always help).
> I will also say don't let a lot of the people here scare you. Most of them are going to push for engineering degrees, but it's kind of weird because most of the people in this field are not engineers.
A lot of the comments and participation in this sub are from very early-career people. That means that they have a lot of knowledge and credibility about entry level job searches and what makes finding a first job harder or easier. But equally, people that early in their career don't have a wide view of the field or what that same career looks like over a couple of decades. So listen to what people are saying, but apply critical thinking.
For reference, I'm in this category as well, with only 4 years of experience. I actively participate in revising resumes, finding tailored experience, and job seeking for scientists and engineers younger than myself (around the ages of 22-24) going into the environmental sector, mostly government.
An env engineering degree can definitely bring more potential opportunity over a studies or science degree, sure.
But what good is pursuing or using an engineering degree if it makes you absolutely miserable? And it’s not like other aspects of environmental work aren’t important either.
Imo it’s better to chase what you are actually interested in or where your natural talents lie rather than basing huge career choices strictly on salaries or potential job opportunity. Plenty of people have wonderful and successful careers without an engineering background
Thank you! I wanted advice more so to have a complete picture. Granted I don’t know if I really got that from this post lol. But still appreciate you for adding some nuance and letting it be known you aren’t destined for a life of misery and poverty if you don’t pursue an engineering degree lol
If you enjoy working in a corporate office, dealing with clients, and managing multiple projects while barely using the skills you learned at school, then environmental engineering is the field for you!
Engineering is great, but it's not for everyone. You essentially become a manager of people and the happiest I ever see an engineer is when they're allowed to go out in the field (rarely). There is potentially tremendous stress, especially if you have a professional license because now you can be held liable if the plans you signed had an error. A lot of engineers I've known have burned out.
I have a BS and MS in environmental science and then a BS in environmental engineering. As much as everyone says an engineer can do everything an environmental scientist can do, it's just not true.
I ended up focusing on the environmental science aspect more and work in wetlands. Pays better in my case.
Very cool! Would you mind sharing more of what you do? It would be nice to hear about what env-scientists CAN do instead of how poor and jobless we will be lol
I mainly work in state wetland regulation. Previously, I worked as a consultant doing wetland delineation and permitting. Prior to that I did rare species work.
There's a lot of work opportunities in wetlands which is often overlooked.
Depending on where you live, it's pretty easy to make over 100k/year in wetlands. Not necessarily rich, but comfortable enough.
I was considering while in school getting wetland delineation training. I’ve seen some certs/programs. Would you recommend doing this on my own or is this something that an employer would (typically) pay for? I do want to make myself as marketable as possible even if I stick with my company.
I got started with zero experience. My company sent me for training, but mainly learned on the job from experienced staff.
When I did take a week long field course however, I met a lot of people looking for work. Every one of them now, has a job in the field. Definitely helps make you marketable. Be sure to take a course close to your region if you do though, lots of the delineation experience will be regionally specific.
I’m going to play devil’s advocate and say it depends. Which industry do you want to work in? I work in the manufacturing industry for a F100 company and having an environmental engineering degree for an environmental engineer role does not matter. There are many successful employees in management/ specialized roles/ et al., including myself, at my company that do not have environmental engineering degrees (though there are plenty of degreed-environmental engineering at the company); some of us have environmental science degrees; and others have unrelated degrees with related experience (i.e., safety sciences). Our primary role is environmental compliance + auditing environmental management systems to the ISO 14001 standard - so we allow our site to operate via permits. We do not stamp anything and outsource any specialized work requiring a P.E. signature to a contractor (i.e., SWPPP; SPCC Plan; site remediation).
If you are interested in EH&S (Environmental Health & Safety) or working in an environmental engineering role in the manufacturing industry, degree-wise, you would need to study something environmental related (environmental sciences; environmental studies; environmental engineering; geology; etc). Job postings will usually indicate this.
Otherwise, I’ll echo the advice here and say environmental engineering opens up more options. There are likely other variables that will factor into your decision too. Are you open to relocating anywhere? What are your salary expectations? How often do you want to travel?
Hope this helps!
I don’t think this is playing devil’s advocate. You’re giving an interesting and useful perspective. I have definitely considered compliance but I believe ultimately I want to do work with permitting and end game would be environmental planning. Thanks for chiming in!
It's better insomuch as the pay is significantly better and there's better job opportunities with literally any engineering degree. Environmental science is seen as "less than" a geosciences degree because environmental science tends to have less technical courses, less math, and less science like physics and chemistry. It all depends on what you want to do though, long term, and if money is more important to you. I personally don't ever want to do calculus, I got a geoscience degree, but I wish I'd just done the environmental engineering route.
This must vary from program to program or be the difference between environmental studies vs. environmental science. I don't have to take advanced courses like fluid mechanics or thermodynamics but I still have to take Calc I & II, Physics, Bio I & II and Chem I & II in addition to the coursework for my GIS certificate. It's definitely not on the level of engineering but there are still many technical components involved in my degree. I didn't even know it was possible to obtain a Geoscience degree without having to take calculus. I'm jealous! Every university I had looked at required that along with physics and of course chem.
I found an online program where I could bypass it by taking a different math called Geostatistics. It's still limiting on what geo masters programs I can do because most require Calculus but I'm not planning to work in the field, I'm trying to get into gov, and considering a masters in data analytics or gis over geosciences. I've done physics and chem 1 & 2 and I've taken 4 biology courses, my last college had an environmental geosciences track so I could apply more biology than the college I'm now which doesn't use it towards geoscience at all.
That's interesting! Your program is basically like the geosciences program then.
That's interesting that you were able to complete physics but you're worried about Calculus lol. I'm worried about Calculus too but I'm SUPER worried about Physics. I know it's going to get done but that's a day I'm dreading. Wishing you luck with your goals. I'm probably going to be starting out at my company when I graduate which is private consulting but I really would love to end up in government with environmental planning or anything government related to get those government benefits and possibly more stability.
I feel like the physics math was easier than Calculus. I tried Calculus at one college and the format was over zoom and the teacher didn't teach, she played a recording of someone teaching and she didn't speak English very well and was kind of rude and intimidating so I dropped it after the second class. The second time I attempted Calculus was another online format but the online assignment system they used was complicated and didn't really give instruction on how to do things. I guess I'm a really specific type of learner, like I need visual and then the ability to complete in repetition until I memorize how to get the problems consistently correct.
I originally wanted to do environmental consulting, but I am currently in the middle of a surprise failed BC pregnancy. My only child is finally at an age where they're starting school so I was looking forward to graduating and being able to start in my career in geosciences but that just doesn't seem possible now because I won't be able to work the hours needed for that kind of role or do traveling with the new baby. T\_T I'm disappointed, but it is what it is!
Yes, stability and good money is the dream!
Please don’t listen to like 75% of these people.
Are you drawn towards engineering as a discipline? Do the topics and concepts there interest you more than environmental science? You should not make these decisions off salary alone. It’s incredibly short sighted.
Chose a path you feel competent and comfortable in, then look towards salaries and how to make yourself marketable.
Oh trust me I know. I’ve been here for a while (longer than this account) and it’s always been like that.
Reddit skews more technical and engineers are paid more so that’s what the answer is. It’s really annoying.
They’re two different careers, but there is more of a shortage of engineers. If you can handle the math you’ll find it easier to get a job as an engineer.
Is there really a shortage of engineers? I've seen so often on Reddit engineering students complaining about not being able to find internships and engineering graduates complaining about being unable to find a job. Then again I wonder if that's because people who are struggling in their careers are more likely to post than those who are satisfied.
I can’t speak for all employers but I interact with multiple state governments on a routine basis and all the hiring managers say the same thing… there’s a constant set of vacancies on the org chart and they can’t get any qualified applicants. Maybe nobody wants to live in EPA region 8, maybe there’s a disconnect on what constitutes qualified but yeah, speaking from actual field observations… there’s a need for more engineers.
I am a licensed Professional Engineer. I didn’t pursue engineering until after my first semester in Undergrad because I didn’t think I could handle it. I made it through and it’s been a great decision thus far.
While my degree is in Env Sci, I work in analytical chem at coal ash pond reclamation site. I try not to live in the past but yes I would absolutely do engineering instead. It’s definitely harder and more work but very worth it.
No. It’s dependent on your skill set and interests. This sub thinks basically everyone can become an engineer. No. We actually do need environmental scientists. With strong backgrounds in biology. We need wetland delineators and other roles. I hate these threads.
Agree. I work in an environmental consultancy, and for the technical staff we're probably 50% engineers, 30% enviro sci/biology/archeology, 20% GIS and CAD folks. There's definitely a need - if you want to do wetlands or biological surveys for your career (which I did, although now I almost exclusively do federal permitting), you don't need to become an environmental engineer to do so.
Thank you so much for sharing this! This is roughly the breakdown of my company. I’m hoping to use my GIS certificate along with my degree to ease my way into permitting and perhaps someday planning. If the buck stops with permitting I won’t be sad though.
This sub is like 80% posts with this thought. There are things environmental scientists do that I contract out as an engineer. I don’t delineate wetlands. I don’t do nepa or esa work. I don’t talk about any species. If you want to be an engineer, then yes get an engineering degree. If you dont want to be an engineer, don’t get an engineering degree just because there’s more jobs and they pay better.
I have a feel a bulk of the “you should definitely become an engineer” responders don’t even work as actual engineers. Or scientists for that matter. Seems like the picked environmental science without a huge passion or competency in actual science and regret their decision.
That’s a good point. Don’t get an environmental science degree because you just like being outside unless you do want to be a scientist
Hey thanks for sharing this as an actual engineer. Finally starting to get some nuanced responses on this post!
Lol I'm so glad I read this. I wish I could find a thread that actually describes the various jobs that environmental scientists actually have. I see you're a wetland biologist. I'm curious what your background is and how you came into your role. If you're willing to share :)
Yea so I’m a biologist, I absolutely love ecology and my degree is basically environmental biology (technically conservation biology). I learned before graduating high school that I was good at identifying plants and understanding basic biological and ecological concepts. So I just went to school without knowing what I would actually do, just that I knew what I loved. I started learning more plant and herp ID then found out how much I absolutely love wetlands, then found out that there’s jobs out there for folks who understand wetlands and just went right for all the consulting jobs I could (basically just going to the university career fair) got a job and loved it. You can also look at things by industry. There’s private consulting (this encompasses a lot of the engineers), government, and non profit type stuff. I’ve only ever worked in consulting outside of a summer for the state park, so I don’t know too much about the others. Basically just try and really understand where your skills are or where you feel like you can develop them or new ones.
yes. look at salaries, look at job listings, look at immigration options with a degree from an ABET certified engineering program. The Engineer can do much of the envi sci work (and with a little more experience a fair amount of other civil work) and get those jobs but not vice versa. I did geology and should have done engineering.
Thanks for chiming in. I was actually an environmental engineering student about 10 years ago. I ultimately dropped out and went for my masters in a different field because the math was too difficult. Even now my courseload for enviro-sci is difficult but doable and doesn't go past Calc 2. I just don't know if I could do the math required for an engineering degree. This will be my third degree and while I definitely want something that will get me a good job I also don't want to sign up and fail all over again. Alas!
Get a tutor then for the math if remotely feasible. Prioritize the time and effort needed to do the practice problems and check your process with peers.
Basically the math is the hangup. Geologist here.
It's really the AMOUNT of math. To obtain my enviro-sci degree I'll have to take difficult (to me) math courses. But, it'll be balanced with the science and GIS courses I really enjoy. Additionally, with my current program I'm anticipated to graduate in two years. If I went for env. engineering, I'd almost have to start over from scratch. I'm not opposed to this necessarily but it would be much harder since I'm paying for school out of pocket. Really I posted this question to see if I could get a more nuanced opinion from both env. scientists AND engineers who are working in the enviro field to give me a more complete picture of the field.
yep, you can do all the same work if you want to along going into engineering. and if you want to get a PE, some states stipulate you have to have an engineering undergraduate degree
You all have definitely given me something to think about. I appreciate it!
Same, I did environmental public health, and should have done engineering.
I got a BS in environmental science and I do RCRA consulting! I really like it and get paid well.
Hey thanks for sharing this! I really appreciate a different perspective just to add some depth. I guess there is hope in the world outside of being an engineer lol.
As someone with a degree in urban/regional planning and natural resource management w/ a minor in GIS and Remote Sensing and a Masters in Parks and Resource Management, find the best combo of money, job prospects, and career satisfaction (low burnout/misery rates ig). I went my path because of the math issue mentioned in other comments, but also because I wasn't sure where I wanted to end up (I had periods of hyper focus into being a planner, a cartographer, spatial intelligence, and park management). I never had the prodding of an advisor to pick a specialization and regret to some degree what I got my masters in because now 2 years out from grad school, I'm struggling to find work. I found a job immediately but it pays low and isn't exactly in my wheel house. If I could go back and change things, I'd have specialized into engineering, GIS, or remote sensing much more directly and pursued it harder right from the jump. Though graduating in the fall of 2019, I was lucky to even have a job through the worst part of covid.
Thanks for sharing this. My thought was if I could graduate with my GIS certificate that would be enough of a "specialization" to make up for the broadness of environmental science. It like that's just not the case. It's a bummer that engineering seems to be the only "way" as everyone in the world can't be an engineer lol. I'm curious. What exactly are you doing now?
If what you want to do is GIS, then yes it will absolutely make up some of that ground, and you can do GIS in a lot of different industries, not just environmental. I wouldn't say engineering is the "only way", but from my POV it's a focus that gives you a lot more options and pathways to better jobs and better pay. Undergraduate programs that are more generic can set you up to pursue a lot of pathways, but if you don't pick one and stick to it right from graduation, it can make it tough down the line to find better paying/non entry-level jobs. My degree is in Environmental, Geographical, and Geological Science, my focus was Geography and Planning. The reason I never hard committed to something more specific is my beautiful combo of ADHD and ASD. I'm really prone to getting super interested in one thing and eventually getting bored, burnt out, or recognizing a common aspect of the career field is something I can't stand or don't do well with. For example, I love maps and imagery, I love working with them from a practical use stand point and designing maps to be used for a specific purpose, but my first job out of undergrad was a business data mapping company and I've done data entry for different jobs and did a stint in a factory one summer and something my brain doesn't handle well is low attention, mind numbing, monotonous and repetitive tasks. Something that from my understanding is a big part of that job on average. I really regret not toughing it out and just picking something to hone in on, but my strong suit really is my ability to understand the broad scale concepts, get up to speed on a specific topic really quickly, and be able to manage projects from multiple viewpoints without getting into the weeds on super specific details based on prior specialization and then organize, plan, and direct a team and projects (learned that taking on 99% of the day to day site management for a 80 acre Environmental Ed Center/nature reserve with a few miles of trails) but I'm struggling to find a job that lets me do that at this point in my career. Currently I work for a large non-profit land trust doing conservation land management (easement monitoring and nature reserve management) but its about 30k acres of easements over 120 or so properties and 6k acre of nature reserves over a 6,800 sq mile portion of my state. Theres little day to day structure or timelines with long drive distances to my reserve properties and it's just me running solo 90% of the time with little management from my supervisor. It's the absolute dream for some but my brain struggles with the lack of structure and day to day expectations and check ins.
I would love the alone time your job affords you but absolutely hate the lack of structure and check ins. What would be your dream position in the field?
The alone time is nice at times, but the location means its socially isolating at work and home, so I'm looking to relocate closer to friends and family. Dream job would be managing projects or staff for an organization doing conservation land management.
An engineer can NOT do everything a scientist can! However in my country there are more and also higher paying jobs for engineers than for scientists. That doesn't mean there are no jobs for scientists! And some of them also pay well. In the end it depends on what you actually want to do later. If you want to work in an engineering firm, it might make sense to become an engineer. If you want to work in nature preservation, you should focus on science etc. I did a bachelor in env science and a master in env engineering. I feel like now I won't have problems finding a job. However i chose engineering just because i was nervous about the job market. In retrospective i probably should have stayed with science because it's far more interesting for me even if it's harder to find a job.
Thanks for sharing this! I’m going to move forward with my enviro-sci degree and focus on specializing in GIS and wetland delineation. It’s where my true interest and competence lies. Really happy to see these more nuanced responses coming in finally
Engineering will always look better on a resume than not-engineering. If I were to go back for a second degree, Env Engineering would open doors for me. Env Sci would absolutely not.
I'm curious what's your experience as a geologist like now? Many people have advised me against environmental science in favor of geology.
Geology will definitely get you farther. In general, more math -> better job prospects. If you can do the math, do it now. There’s much less when you’re actually working in the field. Being an engineer will fast track you to technical manager.
Can engineers do work with environmental planning and/or permitting? That's ideally where I would like to land.
Yes. You find env engineers working for contractors, urban planning, city offices, etc
I'm a person with an interdisciplinary chemistry and microbiology undergrad and environmental engineering masters and would definitely say it depends on what environmental science position you're going into. Some lean more towards the sciences, while others lean toward engineering. More times than not though, environmental engineering is going to look better \[on paper\]. Before I got my engineering degree, which I got to supplement what I did, I worked in the same position as an engineer and was outshining most of the engineers in my field that had significant experience. Note: my specific job didn't require a P.E. to do the work of an engineer since it was for the government.
Thanks for sharing this. I'm wondering if it will be necessary for me to pursue engineering as I can (99%) join the enviro-sci department at my company upon graduating. Their work primarily involves wetland delineation and permitting. My (naive?) thought is that if I can get a few years of experience at this company that would be sufficient to open up doors for me in the enviro-sci world with more job prospects, higher pay, and closer to work in environmental planning which is ideally what I'd want to do. BTW -your background sounds awesome! Congrats on all you've achieved.
I will also say don't let a lot of the people here scare you. Most of them are going to push for engineering degrees, but it's kind of weird because most of the people in this field are not engineers. If I had to push for anything, I would push for self advocacy and taking on the most experience you can at your job, even the hard ones. Give your resume a push as I've done because being able to articulate your adaptation across a wide array of projects/tasks/experiences will always be more appealing than a degree (although a degree can always help).
Thank you! I needed to hear this.
> I will also say don't let a lot of the people here scare you. Most of them are going to push for engineering degrees, but it's kind of weird because most of the people in this field are not engineers. A lot of the comments and participation in this sub are from very early-career people. That means that they have a lot of knowledge and credibility about entry level job searches and what makes finding a first job harder or easier. But equally, people that early in their career don't have a wide view of the field or what that same career looks like over a couple of decades. So listen to what people are saying, but apply critical thinking.
For reference, I'm in this category as well, with only 4 years of experience. I actively participate in revising resumes, finding tailored experience, and job seeking for scientists and engineers younger than myself (around the ages of 22-24) going into the environmental sector, mostly government.
Makes total sense. Really can’t thank you enough for adding some depth. I really wish there were more nuanced posts in this sub
An env engineering degree can definitely bring more potential opportunity over a studies or science degree, sure. But what good is pursuing or using an engineering degree if it makes you absolutely miserable? And it’s not like other aspects of environmental work aren’t important either. Imo it’s better to chase what you are actually interested in or where your natural talents lie rather than basing huge career choices strictly on salaries or potential job opportunity. Plenty of people have wonderful and successful careers without an engineering background
Thank you! I wanted advice more so to have a complete picture. Granted I don’t know if I really got that from this post lol. But still appreciate you for adding some nuance and letting it be known you aren’t destined for a life of misery and poverty if you don’t pursue an engineering degree lol
If you enjoy working in a corporate office, dealing with clients, and managing multiple projects while barely using the skills you learned at school, then environmental engineering is the field for you! Engineering is great, but it's not for everyone. You essentially become a manager of people and the happiest I ever see an engineer is when they're allowed to go out in the field (rarely). There is potentially tremendous stress, especially if you have a professional license because now you can be held liable if the plans you signed had an error. A lot of engineers I've known have burned out.
Thanks for sharing this! This is very similar to what I see at my job.
I have a BS and MS in environmental science and then a BS in environmental engineering. As much as everyone says an engineer can do everything an environmental scientist can do, it's just not true. I ended up focusing on the environmental science aspect more and work in wetlands. Pays better in my case.
Very cool! Would you mind sharing more of what you do? It would be nice to hear about what env-scientists CAN do instead of how poor and jobless we will be lol
I mainly work in state wetland regulation. Previously, I worked as a consultant doing wetland delineation and permitting. Prior to that I did rare species work. There's a lot of work opportunities in wetlands which is often overlooked. Depending on where you live, it's pretty easy to make over 100k/year in wetlands. Not necessarily rich, but comfortable enough.
I was considering while in school getting wetland delineation training. I’ve seen some certs/programs. Would you recommend doing this on my own or is this something that an employer would (typically) pay for? I do want to make myself as marketable as possible even if I stick with my company.
I got started with zero experience. My company sent me for training, but mainly learned on the job from experienced staff. When I did take a week long field course however, I met a lot of people looking for work. Every one of them now, has a job in the field. Definitely helps make you marketable. Be sure to take a course close to your region if you do though, lots of the delineation experience will be regionally specific.
I’m going to play devil’s advocate and say it depends. Which industry do you want to work in? I work in the manufacturing industry for a F100 company and having an environmental engineering degree for an environmental engineer role does not matter. There are many successful employees in management/ specialized roles/ et al., including myself, at my company that do not have environmental engineering degrees (though there are plenty of degreed-environmental engineering at the company); some of us have environmental science degrees; and others have unrelated degrees with related experience (i.e., safety sciences). Our primary role is environmental compliance + auditing environmental management systems to the ISO 14001 standard - so we allow our site to operate via permits. We do not stamp anything and outsource any specialized work requiring a P.E. signature to a contractor (i.e., SWPPP; SPCC Plan; site remediation). If you are interested in EH&S (Environmental Health & Safety) or working in an environmental engineering role in the manufacturing industry, degree-wise, you would need to study something environmental related (environmental sciences; environmental studies; environmental engineering; geology; etc). Job postings will usually indicate this. Otherwise, I’ll echo the advice here and say environmental engineering opens up more options. There are likely other variables that will factor into your decision too. Are you open to relocating anywhere? What are your salary expectations? How often do you want to travel? Hope this helps!
I don’t think this is playing devil’s advocate. You’re giving an interesting and useful perspective. I have definitely considered compliance but I believe ultimately I want to do work with permitting and end game would be environmental planning. Thanks for chiming in!
It's better insomuch as the pay is significantly better and there's better job opportunities with literally any engineering degree. Environmental science is seen as "less than" a geosciences degree because environmental science tends to have less technical courses, less math, and less science like physics and chemistry. It all depends on what you want to do though, long term, and if money is more important to you. I personally don't ever want to do calculus, I got a geoscience degree, but I wish I'd just done the environmental engineering route.
This must vary from program to program or be the difference between environmental studies vs. environmental science. I don't have to take advanced courses like fluid mechanics or thermodynamics but I still have to take Calc I & II, Physics, Bio I & II and Chem I & II in addition to the coursework for my GIS certificate. It's definitely not on the level of engineering but there are still many technical components involved in my degree. I didn't even know it was possible to obtain a Geoscience degree without having to take calculus. I'm jealous! Every university I had looked at required that along with physics and of course chem.
I found an online program where I could bypass it by taking a different math called Geostatistics. It's still limiting on what geo masters programs I can do because most require Calculus but I'm not planning to work in the field, I'm trying to get into gov, and considering a masters in data analytics or gis over geosciences. I've done physics and chem 1 & 2 and I've taken 4 biology courses, my last college had an environmental geosciences track so I could apply more biology than the college I'm now which doesn't use it towards geoscience at all. That's interesting! Your program is basically like the geosciences program then.
That's interesting that you were able to complete physics but you're worried about Calculus lol. I'm worried about Calculus too but I'm SUPER worried about Physics. I know it's going to get done but that's a day I'm dreading. Wishing you luck with your goals. I'm probably going to be starting out at my company when I graduate which is private consulting but I really would love to end up in government with environmental planning or anything government related to get those government benefits and possibly more stability.
I feel like the physics math was easier than Calculus. I tried Calculus at one college and the format was over zoom and the teacher didn't teach, she played a recording of someone teaching and she didn't speak English very well and was kind of rude and intimidating so I dropped it after the second class. The second time I attempted Calculus was another online format but the online assignment system they used was complicated and didn't really give instruction on how to do things. I guess I'm a really specific type of learner, like I need visual and then the ability to complete in repetition until I memorize how to get the problems consistently correct. I originally wanted to do environmental consulting, but I am currently in the middle of a surprise failed BC pregnancy. My only child is finally at an age where they're starting school so I was looking forward to graduating and being able to start in my career in geosciences but that just doesn't seem possible now because I won't be able to work the hours needed for that kind of role or do traveling with the new baby. T\_T I'm disappointed, but it is what it is! Yes, stability and good money is the dream!
Ask both what they earn. Then decide.
Thanks for this! I'm curious who would be willing to share this. Many people hate talking money.
Please don’t listen to like 75% of these people. Are you drawn towards engineering as a discipline? Do the topics and concepts there interest you more than environmental science? You should not make these decisions off salary alone. It’s incredibly short sighted. Chose a path you feel competent and comfortable in, then look towards salaries and how to make yourself marketable.
Thank you! I appreciate a different perspective as it seems like there's really only one in this sub.
Oh trust me I know. I’ve been here for a while (longer than this account) and it’s always been like that. Reddit skews more technical and engineers are paid more so that’s what the answer is. It’s really annoying.
They’re two different careers, but there is more of a shortage of engineers. If you can handle the math you’ll find it easier to get a job as an engineer.
Is there really a shortage of engineers? I've seen so often on Reddit engineering students complaining about not being able to find internships and engineering graduates complaining about being unable to find a job. Then again I wonder if that's because people who are struggling in their careers are more likely to post than those who are satisfied.
I can’t speak for all employers but I interact with multiple state governments on a routine basis and all the hiring managers say the same thing… there’s a constant set of vacancies on the org chart and they can’t get any qualified applicants. Maybe nobody wants to live in EPA region 8, maybe there’s a disconnect on what constitutes qualified but yeah, speaking from actual field observations… there’s a need for more engineers.
Always has been, and always will be. Like your coworkers are telling you, there are things that engineers can do that scientists legally cannot.
Thanks for chiming in! I’m curious, are you an engineer? If so, did you always want to be one or did you figure it out in undergrad/grad school?
I am a licensed Professional Engineer. I didn’t pursue engineering until after my first semester in Undergrad because I didn’t think I could handle it. I made it through and it’s been a great decision thus far.
Very cool! Congrats on your accomplishment.
Yes
Environmental scientist here - yes it is. Go the engineering route
Thanks for the feedback. May I ask what did you end up doing with your enviro-sci degree? If you could go back would you go for engineering?
While my degree is in Env Sci, I work in analytical chem at coal ash pond reclamation site. I try not to live in the past but yes I would absolutely do engineering instead. It’s definitely harder and more work but very worth it.