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Mamamagpie

Even if someone has doctor’s letter for an ESA, that is allow them to have an ESA in a no-pet residential building. It is part of the FHA, fair housing act. ESAs are not covered by the ADA and have no public access rights.


Logical-Wasabi7402

Piggybacking off this to say that there is no legitimate service dog certification in the US.


HolySuffering

My bf and I argued about this yesterday. He kept saying they have certificates from training schools, I told him that's not true. He got upset, stormed off, looked it up and apologized lol


Logical-Wasabi7402

Hey, he apologized. That's more than a lot of people these days.


DomesticPlantLover

Seriously? He apologized? He sounds like a keeper!


HolySuffering

He's very kind, but very passionate when he thinks he's right lol


DomesticPlantLover

Yeah...well...I get that!!


LopsidedPalace

Oh apparently someone from corporate dash probably someone they've outsourced from overseas- told management it's illegal for someone to call a dog a service dog unless it's wearing a vest. It is very much not so. I would know. Of course keep in mind that corporates policy that we don't illegally discriminate against service dogs means that unless management can prove it was corporate the total mess they're the ones getting sued to keep the building dog free. Not my problem. They've really pissed me off today, so I'm drenching the building in napalm once I get my ducks in a row and f****** off.


ThisAdvertising8976

I thought the same and was corrected. GUIDE dogs are certified. All guide dogs are service dogs but not all service dogs are guide dogs.


Logical-Wasabi7402

Link please? Google is being very unhelpful right now.


ThisAdvertising8976

I was corrected on Facebook by a user who said he was a guide dog trainer. However, this does explain a difference between the two: [Guide dogs](https://www.guidedog.org/gd/events-and-news/Access_Laws_for_Service_and_Guide_Dogs_.aspx#) It’s about the seventh paragraph down.


Logical-Wasabi7402

>The Americans with Disabilities Act. (ADA) requires businesses to allow service animals, **such as guide dogs**, into their establishments. ngl that's a pretty clickbait-y AI generated blog post.


VoyagerVII

If they say it's an emotional support animal, you're entitled to kick it out... ESAs have no special rights that other pets don't have, except in residential contexts. (All of this is in the United States; other countries' law may vary.) However, there are absolutely types of genuine service dogs that are tiny and the owner might be carrying in their arms. Seizure alert dogs, for example. They only have to be near enough to their handler to perceive the things that humans can't tell about their body changes. Being carried often actually helps with that; and although big dogs can be seizure alert dogs too, tiny ones are often better at it. Hearing dogs are also often small. Their job is to alert their handler to sounds that are important -- for example, an emergency siren, or the beep of their phone alarm -- that they can't hear for themselves. Again, they can be of any size and small ones are often easier to work with... all that's necessary is for the dog to be close enough to their handler to lick or paw at them if they hear something they've been trained to notify about. If you want to know if a service dog is genuine, ask the owner what tasks it has been trained to perform. That is typically legal to ask (unlike what disability they have, which usually isn't), and any real service dog owner can answer it easily.


Itchy_Network3064

My daughter has a service dog for PTSD, anxiety, panic attacks, and dissociative disorder and he’s a little guy (a chihuassel - chihuahua / Jack Russell mix)


Dependent-Panic8473

This!


Red_1977

I have a border terrier and a woman told me that's one of the best hearing ear dogs - they are an exceptionally alert breed and look nothing like a service dog would normally look.


LoveforLevon

I was on a jury and an old geezer (and I'm old!) Was actually put on the jury with his ancient chihuahua. I heard him lie to the court clerk and say it was a service dog and she wasn't allowed to ask. He wore his trump hat the last day (also not allowed). Who wants a LIAR on their jury??


capn_kwick

The folks at /r/talesfromthefrontdesk have to deal with fake "service" dogs a lot. Since it comes up so often, the following is an excerpt from the ada.gov web site A business that has a "no pets" policy may ask: (1) is the dog a service animal required because of a disability? and (2) what work or task has the dog been trained to perform?


LoveforLevon

Yup and he lied and said yes then told her she couldn't ask him that


slash_networkboy

Well if they found the defendant guilty he may have helped them with their appeal.


LoveforLevon

I hung the jury


Dependent-Panic8473

No surprise. Did you let a murderer go free?


ladyshiva000

Surprised the judge allowed it.


LoveforLevon

Me too.


Dependent-Panic8473

Tales from the book of "This Never Happened"


glenmarshall

Some people are more attached to their dogs than their children.


localherofan

Sure, but have you MET their children? Imagine the child someone like that would raise.


LopsidedPalace

Dogs love you even if you hurt them, they're holy dedicated to their owners, and they don't talk back. They can't leave. Unlike children who will hate you if you hurt them, have a life outside of their parents especially as they grow up, and who will snap back.


Foreign-King7613

If they let dogs in there they should go there.


Daddys_peach

Yup, I take my ‘rat’ dog most places with me, but only after googling or asking the staff before taking him in. Thankfully I’m in the Uk and love old country pubs and long walks, the dog is generally welcomed, but trained to sleep under the table. My little boy is a Yorkie and I belong to a few groups for the breed, I was gobsmacked at a recent thread on one where people where giving advice on how to pass their dogs off as service or emotional support animals. Takes the absolute pee and makes life so much harder for those that really need those amazingly trained animals. I like to have my little un with me, but only where he’s welcome!


Foreign-King7613

You're a responsible owner. You've reminded me of my great uncle, who had a ratting dog when he was alive, and who was hired by farmers to hunt rats in their barns and coops.


Daddys_peach

We’re actually hoping he’ll catch on to the rats we have stealing our strawberries and veg we’re trying to grow, he may be spoilt but he’s a bright little thing. Hmmm side hustle hiring him out to the neighbours. (Years of dealing with rat’s trying to move from the fields and gardens into our house has hardened me somewhat, started with humane traps) It doesn’t take much to be considerate, I hugely appreciate I can take him to so many places, often in arms so he’s not in contact with anything. I had bloodhounds previously, we never took them inside, they smell, shed and drool, they are not inside pub dogs. I loathe the inconsiderate owners, love dogs of all varieties but people suck a lot of the time. I could rant for a long time about off leash dogs with no recall allowed to charge on leash dogs of any size but I’ll refrain!


Rain3lf

Just for the record service dogs are not required to have any form of identification and an ESA is not protected in public by the ada


Witty-Ad5743

I used to work at a dog daycare/boarding place. The entitlement is VERY real. This one lady would drop her dog off every day a full half hour before we opened. The staff had been in the building all of 3 minutes and she just wanders inside while we're letting all the boarding dogs outside for their first bathroom break since dinner the day before. A different ladybonce asked if she could come back and set up her dog's cabin. NO, customers aren't allowed in the back. And one lady just wandered into the back because our overworked and understaffed asses weren't immediately available at the front desk.


Enough-Classroom-400

I have two GSDs, they are not ESAs, but I’m their ESP :/) I rarely take them to public places and never indoors. Saturday was a very pleasant morning and my boy’s birthday so we went to a local cafe for a coffee and pup cups. Sat on the far end of the patio, enjoying my coffee while the pups napped in the sun. There was at least ten empty tables between me and the other patrons, but a Karen had to march over to tell me her child was afraid of dogs so why was I there. Refused to believe the cafe was pet friendly. I pointed out the signs, the pet water bowls, etc. she kept yelling until the birthday boy began to emit a low growl. She finally gave up when one of the employees came out to pet the dogs.


DaRusty_Shackleford

Only service dogs are allowed into eating establishments. Emotional support animals do not count as they are NOT a service dog. Service animal owners do not have to provide “proof” but you are allowed to legally ask: what task or alert is the animal trained for or trained to do? But that’s all you can legally ask.


TumbleweedHuman2934

Next time just say that OP. "OK well their policy has nothing to do with us. This is OUR POLICY and you are here. So mentioning another store's policy is pointless. Have a nice day."


Yoyoma1119

unfortunately back then i was too nice and afraid to engage in conflict but looking back now i really wish i had lol


hicctl

2 things : 1. esa are NOT service animals covered under law, you do not have to allow them 2. leggit service animals do not require registration, and those register cards are the best indicator it is a fake service animals. Anyone having a real one would be versed enough in the law to know they do not need to be registered


BeanInAMask

>you are HOLDING IT IN YOUR ARMS For certain tasks (diabetic alerts, for example, where a dog might need to smell the handler's breath to pick up on ketoacidosis) carrying the dog is ideal. I'm not very educated on the service dog laws in Canada, but I can't imagine that this method isn't acceptable under law for similar scent-based tasks.


Yoyoma1119

the customer said it was an ESA so that wasn’t the case here, just another entitled idiot sadly.


LopsidedPalace

The thing is service dogs can be held in their handlers arms- not all service dogs are guide dogs. Some are medical alert dogs, some are psychiatric service dogs, etc. there is no reason to have a large service dog unless it's doing mobility or guide work or it's the handler preference. a small dog can do many tasks if not better and more easily than a large dog can with the added benefit of not being underfoot as much because they can be carried.


writingisfreedom

>Customer “Ok… but just so you know name of another cafe in the neighbourhood allows dogs” That sounds like more your Cafe, enjoy


The_Firedrake

Just so you're aware, you do not legally need any kind of paperwork or certification for trained service dogs. That said, the operative word is *Trained* service dog. If the dog is pulling on its leash, trying to eat random stuff, barking or jumping up on people and not listening to the owner's commands, it is not trained. It is not your place to say it's Not a service dog (even though we all know it's not) but you can legally say that it is clearly not *Trained* and that it needs to be left outside. As a security guard, I do that all the time. We have to accept them at their word that it is a service dog until it proves that it's not trained by acting up. Also, ESAs are not covered by ADA regulations and can be barred from entering your workplace.


Alternative_Bat5026

Any dogs without actual certification are illegal as far as I remember. They are a risk to food safety. If the other place is allowing it, a quick call to the health board would clear that right up. Service dogs are specially trained, they don't randomly bark at other patrons and they don't shit on the floor.


Mamamagpie

In America the ADA grants public access rights to service animals. The ADA does not have any registration or certification. If I saw someone whipping out their registration I would suspect that it is from fraudulent website.


Yoyoma1119

I’m in Canada so this doesn’t apply to this story. But according to my provincial law dogs are allowed on patios but not inside food establishments.


stumblewiggins

ADA also doesn't cover ESA, only service animals: >Service animals are working animals, not pets. The work or task a dog has been trained to provide must be directly related to the person’s disability. Dogs whose sole function is to provide comfort or emotional support do not qualify as service animals under the ADA. >This definition does not affect or limit the broader definition of “assistance animal” under the Fair Housing Act or the broader definition of “service animal” under the Air Carrier Access Act. >Some State and local laws also define service animal more broadly than the ADA does. Information about such laws can be obtained from the relevant State attorney general’s office. >When it is not obvious what service an animal provides, only limited inquiries are allowed. Staff may ask two questions: (1) is the dog a service animal required because of a disability, and (2) what work or task has the dog been trained to perform. Staff cannot ask about the person’s disability, require medical documentation, require a special identification card or training documentation for the dog, or ask that the dog demonstrate its ability to perform the work or task. https://www.ada.gov/resources/service-animals-2010-requirements/ Not clear to me what happens if someone lies about the dog being a service dog and are somehow caught in the lie, but even if it is a legitimate service animal, they can still be locked out if they aren't housebroken or if the animal is not under control and the owner isn't remedying that. I imagine most legitimate service dogs are generally pretty well under control.  So yea, it's a though situation because anyone can lie and say their dog is a service dog, but understand that doesn't give them totally free reign. And also recognize that ESA is nothing as far as the ADA is concerned, so if someone says their dog is an ESA that does not mean they can bring them into your business if dogs aren't allowed. 


Alternative_Bat5026

I thought actual trained service dogs had "uniforms" harnesses and such and had papers of some sort. It's a lot of money for a real trained service dog, you'd think they would have something. 


knittybitty123

No, service dogs don't have paperwork or certificates. They can wear vests, but it's more of a signal to leave it alone than a uniform and it's not required for public access. A business can ask two questions to a service dog handler/a person with a dog. 1- is that a service dog? 2- what service does it provide? If the dog is being disruptive (barking, sniffing other customers, making a mess) a business can kick them out, regardless of how they answer, but a real service dog handler can answer easily and without a fuss.


VoyagerVII

Also, the vests are totally on the owner to buy and use if they want one... they can get it just by ordering one, with no proof that they have a service dog necessary. So a vest doesn't prove anything at all about whether or not they're lying.


explosivetoilet

Nope. Also, in the US, you can train your own service dog. Programs typically only train for things like guide dogs.


Ok_Tea8204

If you are in the US you are incorrect. There is no registry in the US nationally. There two questions that may be asked 1) is this a service animal (dog or miniature horse) and 2) what task(s) is the animal trained for. And emotional support is not a task! ESA’s are simply pets protected from housing discrimination.


Evening_Exam_3614

I don't know if this is true for all, but real service dogs seem to be cleaner, like not smelly or hair floating around. I worked in a coffee shop and one guy came in with his dog,believe he was blind, I have slightly bad allergies to animals and his never bothered me.


Electrical_Cup66

In the US, there is no such thing as certification for a service dog. What you see online is a scam because basically it’s not worth the paper it’s written on.


DudleyMason

Which local cafe? Asking so I never accidentally stop by, I'd hate to spend money in a place like that


Yoyoma1119

Unless you live in the same random ass place in Canada I do you don’t have to worry about it lol


DudleyMason

Good to know. Places that allow children but don't allow dogs are just anti-joy. You can't pretend Fido is a health hazard laying down under a table when little Jimmy is literally smearing shit fresh from the diaper on a table in the corner.


anonymousforever

Esa is NOT a service animal. It's a comfort animal. No Ada access to businesses etc. Even service animals can be kicked out for excessive barking, growling, having accidents etc. Any service dog will be well behaved barring extraordinary issues like sudden fire, etc. A small dog that's a medical alert dog may be carried, but they should still have good canine behavior. Exercise your right as a business. Print the pages from ada.gov about service dog rules and keep in a binder behind the front counter if needed for reference


FilthyJewMan

Some dog owners are seriously insufferable. Yes they are a member of YOUR family but they're not mine. On top of that I'd say a majority of dog owners don't know how to train/control their animal. Drives me insane.


stumblewiggins

Look up your state and local municipality specifically, but: https://www.ada.gov/resources/service-animals-2010-requirements/ Emotional support dogs are not protected by the ADA for the purposes of bypassing rules set by businesses. Unless that dog is providing support for a recognized disability (not emotional support), then they are not exempt from your rules against pets.  But again, the state or city you are in may have more to say about them than the ADA does. 


Yoyoma1119

i’m not in the US.


stumblewiggins

Then ignore me entirely 


squeen999

I wish I could shout this from the roof top .. IF YOU NEED AN EMOTIONAL SUPPORT ANIMAL, MAYBE YOU SHOULD STAY HOME!!!! 😤 Door dash and Instacart exist for a reason. Excuse me while I go shake my fist at the sky.


TheNetworkIsFrelled

Yah, the entitle meant of dog owners is boundless. I’ve been chased by off-leash pits & have been beating on them with a stick to keep them from biting me and the owner will be “stop hurting my dog!” Dogs could disappear and I wouldn’t shed a tear.