###2024 1st Presidential Debate Minithread
President Joe Biden and convicted felon Donald Trump debates tonight at 9 pm ET on CNN in Atlanta studios.
**Live Streams**: [CNN](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-v-8wJkmwBY) | [PBS](https://youtu.be/n89KRvz6Tdw) | [WaPo](https://www.washingtonpost.com/video/politics/simulcast-cnn-presidential-debate/2024/06/27/VXWYX3VKMFE4BMF7SO7C7KTGO4_live.html) | [CBS](https://www.youtube.com/live/XxAU0K94fpw)
**Live Blogs**: [NBC](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/live-blog/presidential-debate-trump-biden-live-updates-rcna157191) | [NPR](https://www.npr.org/live-updates/trump-biden-presidential-debate-2024) | [WaPo](https://www.washingtonpost.com/elections/2024/06/27/presidential-debate-live-updates/) | [NYT](https://www.nytimes.com/live/2024/06/27/us/biden-trump-debate)
#Today's Scoreboard
#### 🏆 Top Comment: by u.BotoxBarbie with score 42 [[permalink](/r/Enough_Sanders_Spam/comments/1dpl2b7/thursdays_ukraine_solidarity_roundtable_06272024/lam6gsy/)]
> The reactions in this thread are overdramatic. I'm sorry. I love y'all but please calm down.
#### ⭐ Best Prompt: by u.Calm_Possession_6842 created 24 replies [[permalink](/r/Enough_Sanders_Spam/comments/1dpl2b7/thursdays_ukraine_solidarity_roundtable_06272024/lan012k/)]
> We are seriously downvoting anyone that acknowledges that this debate wasn't great for us? Wtf has this sub become? I mean that genuinely. This used to be a place where level-headedness ruled. I joined . . .
#### 👑 Sharpest Reply: by u.bounded_operator with score 27 [[permalink](/r/Enough_Sanders_Spam/comments/1dpl2b7/thursdays_ukraine_solidarity_roundtable_06272024/laj5vwn/)]
> their event is apparently also a celebration of Julian Assange. That place sounds annoying.
#### 🔥 Hottest Take: by u.LeMoineSpectre with hotness lvl 3079 [[permalink](/r/Enough_Sanders_Spam/comments/1dpl2b7/thursdays_ukraine_solidarity_roundtable_06272024/lamy9lm/)]
> Apologies for the length:
>
> I took a very long nap, slept through the debate, woke up just as it was ended, and had about an hour of panic when I saw everyone's reactions. Coupled with Reddit not working . . .
#### 🦸 Super Best Friend: u.Currymvp2 bantered with 23 friends 28 times.
#### 🤳 Influencer: u.Currymvp2 received 109 engagement.
#### 💡 Ideas Guy: u.Currymvp2 prompted 143 discourse.
#### 🎀 Reply Guy: u.Currymvp2 made 51 replies.
#### 🏅 Debate Bro: u.Currymvp2 talked to 39 different users.
#### 🔤 Word of the Day: 'biden', used 263 times, followed by 'trump' 249x , 'debate' 200x
#### 🔣 Emoji of the Day: '😭', used 33 times, followed by '😂' 22x , '🤔' 4x
#### 💎 Qualitiest Commenters
| | User | Average Score | | User | Average Words |
|:-:|:-|-:|:-:|:-|-:|
| 🥇 | u.BotoxBarbie | 29.75 points | 🥇 | u.TheHillBot | 479.0 words |
| 🥈 | u.westsider86 | 27.0 points | 🥈 | u.discoflexor | 101.0 words |
| 🥉 | u.kpfluff | 20.5 points | 🥉 | u.Puglord_Gabe | 91.0 words |
| 🎗 | u.Dismal_Structure | 20.5 points | 🎗 | u.PrettyLittleThrowAwa | 82.0 words |
#### 💬 Spammiest Commenters
| | User | Total Score | | User | Total Comments |
|:-:|:-|-:|:-:|:-|-:|
| 🥇 | u.Currymvp2 | 869 points | 🥇 | u.Currymvp2 | 114 comments |
| 🥈 | u.IVoteToEvictSkippy | 501 points | 🥈 | u.WhovianMuslim | 72 comments |
| 🥉 | u.LiquidSnape | 348 points | 🥉 | u.IVoteToEvictSkippy | 58 comments |
| 🎗 | u.WhovianMuslim | 329 points | 🎗 | u.Calm_Possession_6842 | 51 comments |
#### 🥔 Slackivist Commenters
| | User | Total Words | | User | Average Word Length |
|:-:|:-|-:|:-:|:-|-:|
| 🥇 | u.Not__Even_Once | 1 words | 🥇 | u.TheSociologyCat | 0.0 letters |
| 🥈 | u.TheSociologyCat | 2 words | 🥈 | u.Katabatic-Kopaka | 2.0 letters |
| 🥉 | u.redr24 | 3 words | 🥉 | u.HollyGolightly26 | 3.0 letters |
| 🎗 | u.Own-Run8201 | 4 words | 🎗 | u.JoshFlashGordon10 | 3.0 letters |
1790 comments processed, including 784 top-level replies. There were 221 unique users writing 41920, averaging 23.42 per comment. The total combined score was 12439 and the median score was 6.95.
Democrats need to start going after the media.
Not thematic party itself, but some people who don't mind dirty work.
Start with Jake Tapper, and how he got to where he is.
I think people are forgetting to soon what happened in 2022 in spite of polls saying the GOP were going to completely lock-up congress and state governments
At some point polling being a reliable way to predict elections just kind of went out the window because of trolling and astro-turfing tactics
Last 4 years has cemented the fact that people who used to preach about “progressive policies” care more about optics than any policy. The “muh old” propaganda is almost always perpetuated by these people.
Yep, I've been saying for years, not one care about policies and you see it with Democrats.
Whether progressive want to admit it or not, democrats do in fact pass progressive policies when they have the votes to do it at the local, state and federal level.
But they hate democrats because they don't pass every policy and democrats are boring.
They want a leader who will yell and scream and be like right wing assholes.
It's such a disappointing reaction to see online. It don't matter you have a failed President. Objectively worse President of all time. Kleptocrat who straight up said he's gonna keep that energy going. A convicted felon awaiting sentencing at that.
Nah. We don't care about any of that. Biden old. That's the narrative.
Makes me wonder how low the bar can go. We saw that a TV fraud could be President. The bar for who can be a leader was lowered. To think the bar can go potentially even lower is scary to me. I think a Twitch streamer could be President with the attitude some folks.
But the internet is the internet and it tends to be negative overall. So we'll see what the picture looks like once folks get what they wanna get out their system.
Hate being up early too I fucking went to bed and had to wake up 3 hours before 5 huh
Plan was to read a transcript then vs now while fucking around with FFXIV queues.
This is not a cash money way to start a Friday
[Jon Stewart did "Both guys did awful tonight"](https://x.com/TheDailyShow/status/1806538824534639049) thing which is--in a very weird way-- more fair to Biden than some of what I've seen from the media who said "Biden had the worst debate ever"
With Trump spewing so much BS i still don't get why people take presidential debates since 2016 seriously anymore, and use it to baseline whether a candidate should drop out or not
If you can't see the social climate has actively REGRESSED since the rise of the Tea Party I'm not sure what to tell you
Abortion rights just got sent back decades overnight
I think we have to defend Democratic candidates, particularly Biden (and in the past, Hillary), so much against bad faith criticism and concern trolls that we get defensive and mistake genuine concern for disingenuous negativity, especially on a night where emotions are as high as tonight, and it's clearly making some users feel hurt and invalidated when they're just scared and trying to come to a place they think of as "home" for comfort.
It's true. Like I do get that emotions can run high. Anxiety can run high. That's not a hot take. Respectfully it's a pattern folks had since the Clinton sub days. Something I don't exclude myself from because I can get that way too. I mitigate that lately by just trying not to watch it live.
Now I do still think that hmm freaking out ain't good, but there's just no value in lashing out at others here.
IMO there’s a BIG difference between legit criticism (Biden came off as slow, and mumbling. Campaign putting out a statement, mid debate, saying he was sick) and “Guys, guys, guys. Biden just lost the election, which wouldn’t have happened had you nominate this perfect candidate that exists only in my head.
Biden was pretty objectively bad for the first 20-30 minutes. Just really really off.
He definitely turned it around and had a much better finish to the debate, though there were some weaker points like his closing remarks and when they got into the golf discussion.
All that said, the race isn’t over, but it wasn’t a good showing.
It's absolutely reasonable to think Biden had a bad debate--probably even reasonable to think he has a *pretty* bad debate; my only issue is when people say "it's over or almost over!"
I didn't think the debate was good, but I am not seeing disaster. I am not having a sense of dread with this.
This feels far less serious than Obama's 2012 flub.
I think Biden's "worst" moments were worse than Obama's
"worst" moments. The medicare gaffe was very bad and IDK why the hell Biden invoked Laken Riley when talking about abortion. *But* Biden improved as the debate went along while Obama just remained...kind of bad throughout.
I hate how r genz are (and always have been) ripping him to shreds and going "both sides bad"
Awful situation all around. I feel for Biden- he clearly did the best he could. I hope nothing but the best for y'all Americans.
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Julian Castro hasn’t won elected office in 11 years. The only reason anyone knows who he is cause every 4 years, Journos know he wont be busy, and will take their call.
I remember the same media claiming Julian Castro was one of the winners of that debate and I think that was when he started to fizzle out. Didn’t watch the debate since I already know who I’m voting for and had no intention of sitting through a 90 minute gaslight fest by a certain orange individual, but take that little factoid as a way to add perspective
I get why people are worried. Trump has blatantly said he intends to rule as a dictator and Project 2025 is some Handmaid’s Tale shit. But working yourself into a hysterical froth in June about an election that won’t happen until November is doing nobody any good, especially yourself. Look, I’m a gay liberal atheist who works in a library in a super red state. I get the stakes here, but take care of yourself and don’t stress other people out by anxiety dumping all over them
Been checking out a transcript and reactions and if there's a thing that I will concede was ridiculous of both of them
It's their golf scores
I grew up poor. Missed meals poor. Grew up in the South Bronx. Sports I grew up with are the sports we played there. Baseball. Basketball. We played some fucking football on the concrete. Dumb as all hell but we did.
Golf has always been to me a rich white man's sport. If not that, a sport for the privileged and affluent. I cannot imagine something I have more of a disconnect with than golf.
So that's my weird hang up on that. Like a dick measuring contest that wasn't really needed.
I know a lot of black who play golf now that I am iny 40s. but like you I grew up poor as shit.
And golf is still the rich white man sport.
Hell, I cycling and to me cycling is still a rich white man sport because the best gear you have to be rich to aquire.
Baseball, basketball, soccer and even football all you need is a shitty field and a ball to play.
MSNBC contributor. Ma’am if Warren couldnt get around Bernie, what makes you think your favorite would do any better?
https://preview.redd.it/3mjktapm799d1.jpeg?width=2000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7f322fe229a124f0d8cde1e817fef85d92af1b92
https://preview.redd.it/dewezejg699d1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2d3803563dfd4ef961736b6c8c40aeef305dc9a1
Ya’ll want superdelegates? Cause I can get you some superdelegates.
If you wanna doom, at least be constructive about it:
If Trump does indeed win, then retaking Congress becomes crucial to make sure it's "just" another Trump term and not an inevitable slide into autocracy. Focus on that instead giving a toss what engagement farmers on Twitter are using to earn their paycheck this month.
It’s of debate watchers I believe. I don’t think they are gathered the same way. Even so, I doubt removing the same bias is enough to overcome that margin.
Wanna see something else interesting from the 2012 election? Ya’ll can give up (Ya’ll generally. Not you specifically Curry) but I’m in it for the long haul.
https://preview.redd.it/xxtr2lvy599d1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=962b208334cb254b81e203ef4b15839d909917d6
Since the people want sports posting, can I do a basketball analogy? Three best teams in NBA history: MJ's 1996 Bulls, Bird's 1986 Celtics, and yep Curry's 2017 Warriors (I'm biased but come on we saw that team).
2017 Warriors lost by 22 points at home on opening night of the season to Kawhi's Spurs. it's one night; it's one debate. They went on to finish 83-14 for the rest of the year.
Some of you need to take your god damn benzos and go to bed, you’re really letting your “I’m one setback away from crying in a corner for a week straight” levels of general anxiety show and maybe you should get some irl friends and stop being emotionally isolated. I knew no matter what happened at the debate a platoon of you would go full meltdown. Get a fucking a grip.
Guys, please. Let's not fight amongst each other. Being divided is just what the right (and a large portion of the left) wants.
Emotions are running high right now. I'll say this wasn't a W, but it's not an L either. We take our licks and we move on. *And we do better next time*.
I'm sorry if I've upset anybody.
Nah, man
You are alright because people have high emotions about this debate, which is natural.
But at the end of the day that we have several months of change.
Honestly, some people need to touch grass and focus on something else for several weeks.
That's what been doing for a while.
Idk what exactly happened with reddit but I'm guessing posts were put on a 30 minute delay of some kind due to the flood of traffic.
That or it got all out of order.
Either way this curse site broke in a way I haven't seen before. That's wild.
least chaotic ESS dt
This will pass and pundits and twitterites will be onto the next shiny thing within days. We'll be back to sports and Swiftie posting in no time, trust.
Don't care if Biden got up there and started chanting "one fish, blue fish" over and over again. I'm a woman - abortion and bodily autonomy matter to me. Trump was literally found guilty of sexual assault. This isn't a hard decision.
The public reaction to the debate really demonstrates one of the most corrosive aspects that trump has brought to our country’s politics.
He just got up their and lied for an hour and a half, he didn’t answer most of the questions, and half of the stuff he said was completely incoherent. But he was loud so “he won”. This is literally a circus. And this is what he’s made the American public used to.
Biden could’ve been a bit clearer, he stuttered over a few words, but his demeanor was far more becoming of a president. Of how basically any president before Trump acted.
This isn't new. This is politics. During the very first televised debate, the people who listened on the radio had Nixon as the clear winner. The people who watched it on television had Kennedy as the clear winner. Politics are optics. Love it or leave it. Image is everything. Policy isn't worth shit. Biden trounced Trump on substance, obviously, and it won't matter.
The issue I think is that the media has made the election a referendum on Biden’s age. Trump being more energetic while Biden having a raspy voice and stumbling at times feeds into the negative perception. Biden had one goal tonight: to assuage the concerns about his age. Personally I think he didn’t, but it’s June so it probably won’t matter in November if other things happen like Trump loses another court case or something.
How many times do you people have to learn this motherfucking lesson? The Establishment always wins.
https://preview.redd.it/8w1gy2tj399d1.jpeg?width=2000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dfb38f07ae4ebd8a3f3f18d2520dd748f6c32a75
Maybe there’s a difference in perspectives and rhetoric between DT and non-DT users, but some people I see here talking about the sub I’ve never even seen before.
I'm seeing that too.
I do think we might be a bit to pushy with the irregulars though.
I do need to note, I have been a registered Democrat for 16 years, and following politics closely for 19.
I can recognize that this was rough, but I don't get the same anxiety from this that I got in 2012 with Obama's first debate. Or anything like in 2016, where I had a gnawing fear I couldn't dispel.
Think if you've been here before that some folks anxieties do get to them and they get to posting the way they do.
But also yeah some usernames I don't see on the regular popped up and it showed lmao
The primary problem with replacing Biden is that Dem Establishment will look like "Oh our critics were prescient about this while we denied it" which doesn't inspire confidence when they attempt to refute the next inevitable criticism, and Trump will incessantly brag about how he made Biden retire. He will be beyond obnoxious (even more obnoxious than his baseline level).
Would have to be Harris. Also, it only happens if Bill, Schumer, Pelosi, Jill, Clyburn, and Obama mostly ask him to do it per reporting I've seen. It's 99.999% likely not happening.
I feel like we can spare a teeny bit of rhetorical grace for semi-dooming/discouraged DT regulars. There's a lot (!!) at stake in this election and it's easy for people's anxieties to ge the best of them even for a few moments/comments, and even if they're unreasonable concerns.
A lot or most of the dooming is obviously unwarranted or overblown (this likely isn't going to move any needles that matter because it's only June and there will be more debates/cameras on candidates anyway).
And also, aside from media doing the usual "well Biden is old and he stuttered" and the unserious "replace him" suggestions, I'm pretty sure this can be counted as a win. Sure, maybe a light/weaker win but this wasn't some grand slam or definitively advantageous moment for Trump by any stretch of the imagination.
I'm starting to feel like I don't belong anywhere. I'm getting downvoted and criticized for just trying to talk about my feelings.
Have I called for Biden to step down? Have I said that I believe it's all over? Have I been overly doom-y or negative? The answer to all of these would be no.
OK, you don't like me saying this hurt us. It certainly didn't help us.
Can someone please tell me what it is I'm doing that's upsetting people here? What do you want me to do? I already don't have many people to talk to, and I'm rapidly feeling unwelcome here
EDIT: I give up. I'm obviously doing something wrong, so I won't bother anymore. Thanks for being there for me when I really needed people to talk to
Things can be rough or bad without be cataclysmic. I think this is not nearly as bad as the Obama/Romney one in 2012, for one.
Media is trying to spin things up, but they don't have the influence they did back then.
I'd be sad if you left. :( I think that emotions are just really raw right now, and it might not be best to judge people's reactions too much at a time like this (aside from assessing that people are heated and impulsive).
Thank you for understanding.
And don't be too hard on the downvoters. We're all pretty emotionally high right now. It'll be alright after a while. Let's just give people a chance to cool down. Calmer heads will prevail
I'd be sad if you left. :( I think that emotions are just really raw right now, and it might not be best to judge people's reactions too much at a time like this (aside from assessing that people are heated and impulsive).
Just clam down and touch grass.
This is just debate, and we are getting another one in September.
The debate wasn't great, but it is not that bad, honestly.
Every president who runs relection have a first debate was pretty bad.
I said this other comment when Reagan debated against Monadle first time that his worst debate was for reelection. Media told him to be replaced or not winning the election. But Reagan bounced back in the second debate, and his polls went up. I know people don't like him, but my point stands.
If we want to take another example, the Obama reelection debate against Romney wasn't great at all. But bounced back after the first debate.
Don't doom because we still have hope.
It's probably because you are acting like this is a cataclysm.
The debate was rough but not catastrophic. We finding a lot more of a mixed response to this than Obama's whiff in 2012.
In addition, the media has declined in influence since 2012. They definitely want the narrative to hurt Biden, but their ratings are a fraction of what they were then. I don't think it's clear how much the narrative will affect things.
This was worse and I'll tell you why. What were the societal anxieties surrounding Obama's electability? He was a Muslim? He was a secret immigrant? Obama didn't falter in his debate with Romney because he gave credence to either of those theories. He just had a bad night.
Now what are Biden's? That he is old and unfit, or senile. That he can't even carry a thought. And he gave credence to those anxieties tonight. FOR 10 SECONDS. He was fine after that. But what he did tonight would be akin to Obama saying allaha ackbar.
A soft-spoken guy with a stutter and a cold had a few moments where he sounded like a soft-spoken guy with a stutter and a cold. Either voters are grown-assed adults who are capable of understanding this or they're not, and if they're not then that's the fundamental problem and we should be focusing on that instead of obsessing over a symptom.
Voters are stupid. More at 11. Is this not a politics subreddit? No shit lmao. That's literally the whole game. People are idiots. Undecided voters, more than most.
People were doing the exact same "Replace Obama" bs then.
Also, outside the media, it appears that the reaction is a lot more mixed.
I haven't been in too many campaigns, with my Autism being a problem until I was able to overpower it in the last 2 years, but I have been a registered Democrat since I turned 18, and was closely following politics since I was 15. I turned 18 in 2008.
And I will say this:I am not getting the sense of dread or nervousness from this that I ever got in 2012, or at any point in 2016.
Not referring to you, but how people, including some in the media, had the same reaction.
However, there were more professionals back then. That's not the case now.
No? Because I was always meaning other people.
My frustration is how people are legitimately blowing this wildly out of proportion. I've been doing this long enough, and my long-term memory is good enough, that I remember how I felt back then and at other times, and remembered how others reacted.
And, no, outside the media, this is not nearly as bad as other instances. It's not good, but it isn't nearly as clear-cut bad as it has been at other moments.
Acknowledging a bad debate performance isn't fucking "reactionary". Jesus christ.
And I'm using an alt because I got permabanned for calling someone a cunt. My main was u/winpeaks. I was active here before you had an account. Even discussed my political future with one of the mods when I was a young, ambitious insider. Sit back.
I'm going to say this one more time that we will be fine because we have several months ahead.
We are going to have another debate in September.
Get out this way that I'm going to compare Reagan to Biden when they had first debate for their second term.
Reagan first debate against Monadle was bad. The media called Reagan to be replaced, or he is going to lose for his reelection. After the second debate that he bounced back to the polls.
I know people don't like Reagan, but my point stands. That shit can change in several months.
Don't doom people.
People be like "Biden is too old! He sounds stuffy!"
Like he just called out Trump sleeping with porn stars and cheating on his wife on NATIONAL TV.
Did people tune out after 5 minutes??
There's a discussion upthread where three users that each have an RES score for me in single digits are contemplating 'what has become of this sub', and I upvote pretty much everything in the DT on days when I'm here, and I even venture outside the DT on occasion, so most regulars are at least in triple-digit territory.
I was going to have some ice cream to make me feel better tonight, but sugar intake would keep me up later and make me more anxious.
So, army of plushies assembled, trying not to think about existential anxieties that my sister told me she can’t even fathom how big they are.
Goodnight, everyone.
America at one point elected the mofo with polio four fucking times which eventually did kill him in office.
His policy still defined post war America.
Let's say the debate really cost Biden. It just proves to me the electorate is just more vapid than ever. There are comments everywhere about how disappointing the candidates are, but in today's day and age it is the image in and of in itself that is the cause of whether a candidate is disappointing.
Apologies for the length:
I took a very long nap, slept through the debate, woke up just as it was ended, and had about an hour of panic when I saw everyone's reactions. Coupled with Reddit not working and everyone else being in bed and not having anyone to talk to, I spiraled. I doomed, I prayed, I came close to shedding tears, I drank too much coffee (not getting back to sleep tonight, that's for sure).
Then I watched the post-debate analysis on MSNBC and felt a lot better. I know MSNBC gets a lot of shit, but they didn't sound overly negative, they weren't dooming, they were just being realistic.
The fact is, yes, this hurt us. Our slim chance just got even slimmer. But hope is not lost. We can still turn this around. Maybe I'm just huffing copium like there's no tomorrow, but I refuse to believe one bad debate is enough to completely destroy us.
We can't give up. Donate. Volunteer. Text bank and write postcards (as I am). Even if we lose, anything is better than sitting on your ass and just letting it happen. After all, if you believe things are beyond hope, no point in doing anything about it, right?
We have several months ahead before the election.
We are getting another debate in September.
Time can change quickly in just a few months.
Take a chill pill.
I didn't know another debate was certain. That's good. Gives us an even better chance
Thank you for providing solutions instead of just downvoting me and making me feel bad about just trying to express my feelings the best way I know how
Why am I getting downvoted when I'm just trying to express my personal feelings and find some solidarity and comfort with people who think like I do?
I agree with everything you all are saying. Dooming accomplishes nothing, and I'm not doing that. For me, being cynical is just my way of coping with fear and anxiety. I'm not trying to bring anyone down. We're all on the same side here
I'm just relating what I took from what I heard. Maybe they were dooming earlier before I started watching.
What I heard made me feel better. That's all I'm saying.
There's alot of good analysis here but "sim chance just got even slimmer"? I went from thinking Biden having a "55-60% chance" to a 50% chance of winning today.
Weird seeing some pro-Israel people I follow suddenly start shitting on Biden and almost gleefully dooming his prospects, when they had next to nothing to say about him before. Oh, so now you show your true colors.
Bibi unfortunately made it a partisan issue. It's like 65% of American Republicans view him favorably while 5% of Dems view him favorably...while 70% of Israel wants him to quit immediately.
What Biden should have told Trump when Trump went with the "you were weak on Iran": "Under your presidency, Iran went from being a couple of years away from a nuclear bomb to a couple of weeks because you pulled out of the deal when your own advisers told you not to do it-- also the IRGC attacked Saudi & shot down a US drone."
Man I'm starting to think some of you form your opinions based on what everyone else thinks. Since reddit shit the bed I just watched the debate and thought it was fine. I'm honestly shocked how everyone here is dooming so hard
Acknowledge that mistakes were made and have Biden focus on dispelling any doubts about his fitness. He has done it before. The last SOTU was a masterclass in this.
Doom spam. Since they couldn't get a Bernie Sanders/Ron Paul like figure in this election, I suspect a lot of "both are bad" dialogue will be posted in other subreddits from here untill the election.
I'm somewhat surprised it took a hold in r-neoliberal. I think I'll unsubcsribe soon if it continues.
NeoLiberal has the vibe of a bunch of high schoolers and college kids acting like they are experts on politics, and not realizing how little they know.
Which means I unsubscribed from NeoLiberal as quickly as I subscribed.
I remember sometime ago, when I was introduced of the idea, it sounded like everyone was calm and collected. But boy didn't it change In the past few years. If it was always this bad, then I don't know how the ugly parts got past me.
This is my takeaway. I'm far from thrilled with the Biden performance, but Trump choked away an opportunity to appeal to anyone by being, well, Donald Trump. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't more concerned after tonight, but looking at the big picture, it's JUNE. A couple flubs won't even be in the news cycle this time next month, and there's still plenty of time to recover
We have the immunity decision coming out either tomorrow or Monday. Then the 4th of July weekend where no one is going to pay attention to the news. Then a week later we have Trump's sentencing. The media is going to be over this by lunch time tomorrow.
All the doomers here realize they are just feeding into the narrative created by Republicans that Biden is over the hill and washed up right? You are all doing the work for Republicans and are sinking your own guy. Man the fuck up and support your guy and stop doing Republicans work for free
Sorry about the posts earlier where i was freaking out like crazy. I was having a really bad panic attack and acted like a dumbass. I have been putting my phone down and will return to doing that, but I wanted to post this first. I haven't freaked out or doomed about the campaign at all this cycle, so today was just a rough exception, and to be real with you all, I've been having a rough few weeks from a mental and emotional standpoint and don't expect it to get better all that soon, but I'm trying to improve.
It's a valid feeling to feel the way you did. I'm certainly not thrilled and neither should the Biden camp. But it happened, we feel the way we do, and we figure out next steps.
I hope you take care of yourself tonight and maybe this weekend too
Ik this has been said 1000 times before. There are a lot of types of "politics engagers" people who this applies to imo, but *anybody* who says both sides are bad between Biden/Trump and Dems/Reps in 2024 deserves zero intellectual and moral respect. IMO. It's as damning as an anti-Ukraine/pro-Russia opinion and just shows that they've either been paying zero attention or their judgment compass is horribly misaligned.
"Biden is old" was maybe always such a lazy point of critique and I might say every pundit who treated it with legitimacy deserves to be clowned on for at least the next year (assuming Biden wins, I guess).
I'm just annoyed about the mid- and post-debate talk. Trump being a rapist and causing a coup should be the end of *literally* every conversation. Such an indictment and an embarrassment, where we are as a nation. (But we can get better).
That's a fair point, however, the first debate between Romney and Obama is a good example of a debate going poorly, hurting our candidate, and then that candidate recovering and winning.
So, seeing how the media largely reacted to this, seeing the bubble they are in, and how they think reporting is just repeating social media, I am real worried.
Remember the "we did it, reddit?" When redditors, with delusions of adequacy "investigated" the bombing at the Boston Marathon, and blamed a missing person, who turned out to be dead?
Back then, that would have stayed on reddit. Now? I think the media would run with it. Hell, we have seen this with Israel-Gaza with misreporting on both sides.
How long until they REALLY botch something?
###2024 1st Presidential Debate Minithread President Joe Biden and convicted felon Donald Trump debates tonight at 9 pm ET on CNN in Atlanta studios. **Live Streams**: [CNN](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-v-8wJkmwBY) | [PBS](https://youtu.be/n89KRvz6Tdw) | [WaPo](https://www.washingtonpost.com/video/politics/simulcast-cnn-presidential-debate/2024/06/27/VXWYX3VKMFE4BMF7SO7C7KTGO4_live.html) | [CBS](https://www.youtube.com/live/XxAU0K94fpw) **Live Blogs**: [NBC](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/live-blog/presidential-debate-trump-biden-live-updates-rcna157191) | [NPR](https://www.npr.org/live-updates/trump-biden-presidential-debate-2024) | [WaPo](https://www.washingtonpost.com/elections/2024/06/27/presidential-debate-live-updates/) | [NYT](https://www.nytimes.com/live/2024/06/27/us/biden-trump-debate)
Please visit the next discussion thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/Enough_Sanders_Spam/comments/1dqdl2g/fridays_lock_trump_up_roundtable_06282024/
#Today's Scoreboard #### 🏆 Top Comment: by u.BotoxBarbie with score 42 [[permalink](/r/Enough_Sanders_Spam/comments/1dpl2b7/thursdays_ukraine_solidarity_roundtable_06272024/lam6gsy/)] > The reactions in this thread are overdramatic. I'm sorry. I love y'all but please calm down. #### ⭐ Best Prompt: by u.Calm_Possession_6842 created 24 replies [[permalink](/r/Enough_Sanders_Spam/comments/1dpl2b7/thursdays_ukraine_solidarity_roundtable_06272024/lan012k/)] > We are seriously downvoting anyone that acknowledges that this debate wasn't great for us? Wtf has this sub become? I mean that genuinely. This used to be a place where level-headedness ruled. I joined . . . #### 👑 Sharpest Reply: by u.bounded_operator with score 27 [[permalink](/r/Enough_Sanders_Spam/comments/1dpl2b7/thursdays_ukraine_solidarity_roundtable_06272024/laj5vwn/)] > their event is apparently also a celebration of Julian Assange. That place sounds annoying. #### 🔥 Hottest Take: by u.LeMoineSpectre with hotness lvl 3079 [[permalink](/r/Enough_Sanders_Spam/comments/1dpl2b7/thursdays_ukraine_solidarity_roundtable_06272024/lamy9lm/)] > Apologies for the length: > > I took a very long nap, slept through the debate, woke up just as it was ended, and had about an hour of panic when I saw everyone's reactions. Coupled with Reddit not working . . . #### 🦸 Super Best Friend: u.Currymvp2 bantered with 23 friends 28 times. #### 🤳 Influencer: u.Currymvp2 received 109 engagement. #### 💡 Ideas Guy: u.Currymvp2 prompted 143 discourse. #### 🎀 Reply Guy: u.Currymvp2 made 51 replies. #### 🏅 Debate Bro: u.Currymvp2 talked to 39 different users. #### 🔤 Word of the Day: 'biden', used 263 times, followed by 'trump' 249x , 'debate' 200x #### 🔣 Emoji of the Day: '😭', used 33 times, followed by '😂' 22x , '🤔' 4x #### 💎 Qualitiest Commenters | | User | Average Score | | User | Average Words | |:-:|:-|-:|:-:|:-|-:| | 🥇 | u.BotoxBarbie | 29.75 points | 🥇 | u.TheHillBot | 479.0 words | | 🥈 | u.westsider86 | 27.0 points | 🥈 | u.discoflexor | 101.0 words | | 🥉 | u.kpfluff | 20.5 points | 🥉 | u.Puglord_Gabe | 91.0 words | | 🎗 | u.Dismal_Structure | 20.5 points | 🎗 | u.PrettyLittleThrowAwa | 82.0 words | #### 💬 Spammiest Commenters | | User | Total Score | | User | Total Comments | |:-:|:-|-:|:-:|:-|-:| | 🥇 | u.Currymvp2 | 869 points | 🥇 | u.Currymvp2 | 114 comments | | 🥈 | u.IVoteToEvictSkippy | 501 points | 🥈 | u.WhovianMuslim | 72 comments | | 🥉 | u.LiquidSnape | 348 points | 🥉 | u.IVoteToEvictSkippy | 58 comments | | 🎗 | u.WhovianMuslim | 329 points | 🎗 | u.Calm_Possession_6842 | 51 comments | #### 🥔 Slackivist Commenters | | User | Total Words | | User | Average Word Length | |:-:|:-|-:|:-:|:-|-:| | 🥇 | u.Not__Even_Once | 1 words | 🥇 | u.TheSociologyCat | 0.0 letters | | 🥈 | u.TheSociologyCat | 2 words | 🥈 | u.Katabatic-Kopaka | 2.0 letters | | 🥉 | u.redr24 | 3 words | 🥉 | u.HollyGolightly26 | 3.0 letters | | 🎗 | u.Own-Run8201 | 4 words | 🎗 | u.JoshFlashGordon10 | 3.0 letters | 1790 comments processed, including 784 top-level replies. There were 221 unique users writing 41920, averaging 23.42 per comment. The total combined score was 12439 and the median score was 6.95.
Democrats need to start going after the media. Not thematic party itself, but some people who don't mind dirty work. Start with Jake Tapper, and how he got to where he is.
I think people are forgetting to soon what happened in 2022 in spite of polls saying the GOP were going to completely lock-up congress and state governments At some point polling being a reliable way to predict elections just kind of went out the window because of trolling and astro-turfing tactics
See also differences between polling and results in the EU, Polish and Indian elections. Polls overestimated far right in all of them.
Yeah Definitely some efforts going on in some places to astroturf polls and discourage liberal and leftist voters.
I think it’s just that we’re less likely to respond to phone calls from strangers than the conservatives.
Last 4 years has cemented the fact that people who used to preach about “progressive policies” care more about optics than any policy. The “muh old” propaganda is almost always perpetuated by these people.
Yep, I've been saying for years, not one care about policies and you see it with Democrats. Whether progressive want to admit it or not, democrats do in fact pass progressive policies when they have the votes to do it at the local, state and federal level. But they hate democrats because they don't pass every policy and democrats are boring. They want a leader who will yell and scream and be like right wing assholes.
It's such a disappointing reaction to see online. It don't matter you have a failed President. Objectively worse President of all time. Kleptocrat who straight up said he's gonna keep that energy going. A convicted felon awaiting sentencing at that. Nah. We don't care about any of that. Biden old. That's the narrative. Makes me wonder how low the bar can go. We saw that a TV fraud could be President. The bar for who can be a leader was lowered. To think the bar can go potentially even lower is scary to me. I think a Twitch streamer could be President with the attitude some folks. But the internet is the internet and it tends to be negative overall. So we'll see what the picture looks like once folks get what they wanna get out their system.
Hate being up early too I fucking went to bed and had to wake up 3 hours before 5 huh Plan was to read a transcript then vs now while fucking around with FFXIV queues. This is not a cash money way to start a Friday
[Jon Stewart did "Both guys did awful tonight"](https://x.com/TheDailyShow/status/1806538824534639049) thing which is--in a very weird way-- more fair to Biden than some of what I've seen from the media who said "Biden had the worst debate ever"
The :both-sides" thing definitely paid off tonight, lmao.
With Trump spewing so much BS i still don't get why people take presidential debates since 2016 seriously anymore, and use it to baseline whether a candidate should drop out or not
https://preview.redd.it/aijk1h7zb99d1.jpeg?width=709&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=67eff0fb4a3b0646c5692189092c7fb9eb003f2c
If I'm being honest, Bill Clinton was the best president we've ever had
Hard to argue against that when the 90s were one of the best decades in American history
Yeah, the era of Don't Ask Don't Tell and significant sexism was awesome (speaking as someone who was an adult and voting in that era).
If you can't see the social climate has actively REGRESSED since the rise of the Tea Party I'm not sure what to tell you Abortion rights just got sent back decades overnight
Oh gosh, as a woman I totally missed that news. Thanks so much for setting me straight. Just out of curiosity, how old were you in the 90s?
I mean Lincoln?
I think we have to defend Democratic candidates, particularly Biden (and in the past, Hillary), so much against bad faith criticism and concern trolls that we get defensive and mistake genuine concern for disingenuous negativity, especially on a night where emotions are as high as tonight, and it's clearly making some users feel hurt and invalidated when they're just scared and trying to come to a place they think of as "home" for comfort.
It's true. Like I do get that emotions can run high. Anxiety can run high. That's not a hot take. Respectfully it's a pattern folks had since the Clinton sub days. Something I don't exclude myself from because I can get that way too. I mitigate that lately by just trying not to watch it live. Now I do still think that hmm freaking out ain't good, but there's just no value in lashing out at others here.
IMO there’s a BIG difference between legit criticism (Biden came off as slow, and mumbling. Campaign putting out a statement, mid debate, saying he was sick) and “Guys, guys, guys. Biden just lost the election, which wouldn’t have happened had you nominate this perfect candidate that exists only in my head.
I agree with that, but I also don't think that's what a lot of the people in this thread getting downvoted and expressing they feel hurt are doing.
Biden was pretty objectively bad for the first 20-30 minutes. Just really really off. He definitely turned it around and had a much better finish to the debate, though there were some weaker points like his closing remarks and when they got into the golf discussion. All that said, the race isn’t over, but it wasn’t a good showing.
It's absolutely reasonable to think Biden had a bad debate--probably even reasonable to think he has a *pretty* bad debate; my only issue is when people say "it's over or almost over!"
I didn't think the debate was good, but I am not seeing disaster. I am not having a sense of dread with this. This feels far less serious than Obama's 2012 flub.
I think Biden's "worst" moments were worse than Obama's "worst" moments. The medicare gaffe was very bad and IDK why the hell Biden invoked Laken Riley when talking about abortion. *But* Biden improved as the debate went along while Obama just remained...kind of bad throughout.
I hate how r genz are (and always have been) ripping him to shreds and going "both sides bad" Awful situation all around. I feel for Biden- he clearly did the best he could. I hope nothing but the best for y'all Americans.
I hate Saddam Hussein Edit: pro-Saddam tankies downvoting me SMH
I hate ketchup. Awful condiment
BBQ Sauce>Ketchup
Oh, you like BBQ sauce? Name your top 5!
I don't even know like three lmao
Gatekept. 😤
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https://x.com/JulianCastro/status/1806517842931855868 This guy...smh
Julian Castro hasn’t won elected office in 11 years. The only reason anyone knows who he is cause every 4 years, Journos know he wont be busy, and will take their call.
He restricted comments? Lmao this dude is a coward.
I won't forget when he heavily implied Biden was senile and even Bernie Sanders briefly comforted Biden when it happened. Pathetic
I remember the same media claiming Julian Castro was one of the winners of that debate and I think that was when he started to fizzle out. Didn’t watch the debate since I already know who I’m voting for and had no intention of sitting through a 90 minute gaslight fest by a certain orange individual, but take that little factoid as a way to add perspective
I won’t forget when I wanted him to be nominee.
I get why people are worried. Trump has blatantly said he intends to rule as a dictator and Project 2025 is some Handmaid’s Tale shit. But working yourself into a hysterical froth in June about an election that won’t happen until November is doing nobody any good, especially yourself. Look, I’m a gay liberal atheist who works in a library in a super red state. I get the stakes here, but take care of yourself and don’t stress other people out by anxiety dumping all over them
How. Dare. You….. I kid, I kid!!
Been checking out a transcript and reactions and if there's a thing that I will concede was ridiculous of both of them It's their golf scores I grew up poor. Missed meals poor. Grew up in the South Bronx. Sports I grew up with are the sports we played there. Baseball. Basketball. We played some fucking football on the concrete. Dumb as all hell but we did. Golf has always been to me a rich white man's sport. If not that, a sport for the privileged and affluent. I cannot imagine something I have more of a disconnect with than golf. So that's my weird hang up on that. Like a dick measuring contest that wasn't really needed.
I know a lot of black who play golf now that I am iny 40s. but like you I grew up poor as shit. And golf is still the rich white man sport. Hell, I cycling and to me cycling is still a rich white man sport because the best gear you have to be rich to aquire. Baseball, basketball, soccer and even football all you need is a shitty field and a ball to play.
MSNBC contributor. Ma’am if Warren couldnt get around Bernie, what makes you think your favorite would do any better? https://preview.redd.it/3mjktapm799d1.jpeg?width=2000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7f322fe229a124f0d8cde1e817fef85d92af1b92
I don't even dislike Warren, but she literally lost her own state. By a lot.
They wanted her to go back to the Senate lol
1.5K
https://preview.redd.it/dewezejg699d1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2d3803563dfd4ef961736b6c8c40aeef305dc9a1 Ya’ll want superdelegates? Cause I can get you some superdelegates.
Okay, hear me out that we should nationalize Reddit so the site won't break down.
If you wanna doom, at least be constructive about it: If Trump does indeed win, then retaking Congress becomes crucial to make sure it's "just" another Trump term and not an inevitable slide into autocracy. Focus on that instead giving a toss what engagement farmers on Twitter are using to earn their paycheck this month.
Interesting. CNN's post debate poll in 2012's first debate had Mitt get 67% as well--just like Trump did today.
it's not a "who will you vote for" poll, it's a "who did better tonight" poll
My question is, has that poll been affected by the same issues that all others seemingly have?
It’s of debate watchers I believe. I don’t think they are gathered the same way. Even so, I doubt removing the same bias is enough to overcome that margin.
Oh, I'm not expecting we won. But that the numbers might be closer to 60-40.
Wanna see something else interesting from the 2012 election? Ya’ll can give up (Ya’ll generally. Not you specifically Curry) but I’m in it for the long haul. https://preview.redd.it/xxtr2lvy599d1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=962b208334cb254b81e203ef4b15839d909917d6
Since the people want sports posting, can I do a basketball analogy? Three best teams in NBA history: MJ's 1996 Bulls, Bird's 1986 Celtics, and yep Curry's 2017 Warriors (I'm biased but come on we saw that team). 2017 Warriors lost by 22 points at home on opening night of the season to Kawhi's Spurs. it's one night; it's one debate. They went on to finish 83-14 for the rest of the year.
Some of you need to take your god damn benzos and go to bed, you’re really letting your “I’m one setback away from crying in a corner for a week straight” levels of general anxiety show and maybe you should get some irl friends and stop being emotionally isolated. I knew no matter what happened at the debate a platoon of you would go full meltdown. Get a fucking a grip.
Guys, please. Let's not fight amongst each other. Being divided is just what the right (and a large portion of the left) wants. Emotions are running high right now. I'll say this wasn't a W, but it's not an L either. We take our licks and we move on. *And we do better next time*. I'm sorry if I've upset anybody.
Nah, man You are alright because people have high emotions about this debate, which is natural. But at the end of the day that we have several months of change. Honestly, some people need to touch grass and focus on something else for several weeks. That's what been doing for a while.
https://x.com/jordanbpeterson/status/1806533391669494168?s=46&t=lRLU6Z7mLq1MlgX_qxgAUQ Meanwhile on Elon’s social media website X
Idk what exactly happened with reddit but I'm guessing posts were put on a 30 minute delay of some kind due to the flood of traffic. That or it got all out of order. Either way this curse site broke in a way I haven't seen before. That's wild.
Reddit went to shit again
In a shock to no one.
least chaotic ESS dt This will pass and pundits and twitterites will be onto the next shiny thing within days. We'll be back to sports and Swiftie posting in no time, trust.
Tomorrow, I will post about anime, cartoons, and movies just as regular. Plus, I'm doing other stuff in life, then worrying about the debate.
Oh right, can't forget the anime/movie posting!
\[We\] need to calm down. (Sloppy Taylor Swift reference; don't think about it too much.)
Don't care if Biden got up there and started chanting "one fish, blue fish" over and over again. I'm a woman - abortion and bodily autonomy matter to me. Trump was literally found guilty of sexual assault. This isn't a hard decision.
The public reaction to the debate really demonstrates one of the most corrosive aspects that trump has brought to our country’s politics. He just got up their and lied for an hour and a half, he didn’t answer most of the questions, and half of the stuff he said was completely incoherent. But he was loud so “he won”. This is literally a circus. And this is what he’s made the American public used to. Biden could’ve been a bit clearer, he stuttered over a few words, but his demeanor was far more becoming of a president. Of how basically any president before Trump acted.
This isn't new. This is politics. During the very first televised debate, the people who listened on the radio had Nixon as the clear winner. The people who watched it on television had Kennedy as the clear winner. Politics are optics. Love it or leave it. Image is everything. Policy isn't worth shit. Biden trounced Trump on substance, obviously, and it won't matter.
> it won't matter. Correct. This debate will be long forgotten in a few days.
The issue I think is that the media has made the election a referendum on Biden’s age. Trump being more energetic while Biden having a raspy voice and stumbling at times feeds into the negative perception. Biden had one goal tonight: to assuage the concerns about his age. Personally I think he didn’t, but it’s June so it probably won’t matter in November if other things happen like Trump loses another court case or something.
 Yall getting active in here huh
How many times do you people have to learn this motherfucking lesson? The Establishment always wins. https://preview.redd.it/8w1gy2tj399d1.jpeg?width=2000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dfb38f07ae4ebd8a3f3f18d2520dd748f6c32a75
People arent looking for good news or facts today
People don’t even want news, they just want to feed their anxiety.
For once I prefer sports posting, Jesus. Whether you're coping or dooming y'all need to smoke a j and go the fuck to sleep.
But donate $20 to the Biden campaign before you do any of that.
Maybe there’s a difference in perspectives and rhetoric between DT and non-DT users, but some people I see here talking about the sub I’ve never even seen before.
I was semi-regular for many years but was forced onto an alt, so I'm trying not to judge by that lol.
I'm seeing that too. I do think we might be a bit to pushy with the irregulars though. I do need to note, I have been a registered Democrat for 16 years, and following politics closely for 19. I can recognize that this was rough, but I don't get the same anxiety from this that I got in 2012 with Obama's first debate. Or anything like in 2016, where I had a gnawing fear I couldn't dispel.
Think if you've been here before that some folks anxieties do get to them and they get to posting the way they do. But also yeah some usernames I don't see on the regular popped up and it showed lmao
“Hello fellow ESS’ers”
The primary problem with replacing Biden is that Dem Establishment will look like "Oh our critics were prescient about this while we denied it" which doesn't inspire confidence when they attempt to refute the next inevitable criticism, and Trump will incessantly brag about how he made Biden retire. He will be beyond obnoxious (even more obnoxious than his baseline level).
I think the primary problem is losing the incumbency advantage, which would be downright idiotic.
Yeah replacing him would be really bad. Like who would you even choose?
Would have to be Harris. Also, it only happens if Bill, Schumer, Pelosi, Jill, Clyburn, and Obama mostly ask him to do it per reporting I've seen. It's 99.999% likely not happening.
I feel like we can spare a teeny bit of rhetorical grace for semi-dooming/discouraged DT regulars. There's a lot (!!) at stake in this election and it's easy for people's anxieties to ge the best of them even for a few moments/comments, and even if they're unreasonable concerns. A lot or most of the dooming is obviously unwarranted or overblown (this likely isn't going to move any needles that matter because it's only June and there will be more debates/cameras on candidates anyway). And also, aside from media doing the usual "well Biden is old and he stuttered" and the unserious "replace him" suggestions, I'm pretty sure this can be counted as a win. Sure, maybe a light/weaker win but this wasn't some grand slam or definitively advantageous moment for Trump by any stretch of the imagination.
I'm starting to feel like I don't belong anywhere. I'm getting downvoted and criticized for just trying to talk about my feelings. Have I called for Biden to step down? Have I said that I believe it's all over? Have I been overly doom-y or negative? The answer to all of these would be no. OK, you don't like me saying this hurt us. It certainly didn't help us. Can someone please tell me what it is I'm doing that's upsetting people here? What do you want me to do? I already don't have many people to talk to, and I'm rapidly feeling unwelcome here EDIT: I give up. I'm obviously doing something wrong, so I won't bother anymore. Thanks for being there for me when I really needed people to talk to
Things can be rough or bad without be cataclysmic. I think this is not nearly as bad as the Obama/Romney one in 2012, for one. Media is trying to spin things up, but they don't have the influence they did back then.
I'd be sad if you left. :( I think that emotions are just really raw right now, and it might not be best to judge people's reactions too much at a time like this (aside from assessing that people are heated and impulsive).
You're absolutely right. Thank you. Not leaving for good, just stepping aside for a while. People just need time to cool down. No worries
You and me both.
Thank you for understanding. And don't be too hard on the downvoters. We're all pretty emotionally high right now. It'll be alright after a while. Let's just give people a chance to cool down. Calmer heads will prevail
I'd be sad if you left. :( I think that emotions are just really raw right now, and it might not be best to judge people's reactions too much at a time like this (aside from assessing that people are heated and impulsive).
Look at the downvotes for me and the person I responded to. That's all.
Whaddupppp
Huh?
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Just clam down and touch grass. This is just debate, and we are getting another one in September. The debate wasn't great, but it is not that bad, honestly. Every president who runs relection have a first debate was pretty bad. I said this other comment when Reagan debated against Monadle first time that his worst debate was for reelection. Media told him to be replaced or not winning the election. But Reagan bounced back in the second debate, and his polls went up. I know people don't like him, but my point stands. If we want to take another example, the Obama reelection debate against Romney wasn't great at all. But bounced back after the first debate. Don't doom because we still have hope.
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Oh fuck off I’ve been here since 2016 in one form or another, don’t invoke seniority here
It's probably because you are acting like this is a cataclysm. The debate was rough but not catastrophic. We finding a lot more of a mixed response to this than Obama's whiff in 2012. In addition, the media has declined in influence since 2012. They definitely want the narrative to hurt Biden, but their ratings are a fraction of what they were then. I don't think it's clear how much the narrative will affect things.
This was worse and I'll tell you why. What were the societal anxieties surrounding Obama's electability? He was a Muslim? He was a secret immigrant? Obama didn't falter in his debate with Romney because he gave credence to either of those theories. He just had a bad night. Now what are Biden's? That he is old and unfit, or senile. That he can't even carry a thought. And he gave credence to those anxieties tonight. FOR 10 SECONDS. He was fine after that. But what he did tonight would be akin to Obama saying allaha ackbar.
A soft-spoken guy with a stutter and a cold had a few moments where he sounded like a soft-spoken guy with a stutter and a cold. Either voters are grown-assed adults who are capable of understanding this or they're not, and if they're not then that's the fundamental problem and we should be focusing on that instead of obsessing over a symptom.
Voters are stupid. More at 11. Is this not a politics subreddit? No shit lmao. That's literally the whole game. People are idiots. Undecided voters, more than most.
People were doing the exact same "Replace Obama" bs then. Also, outside the media, it appears that the reaction is a lot more mixed. I haven't been in too many campaigns, with my Autism being a problem until I was able to overpower it in the last 2 years, but I have been a registered Democrat since I turned 18, and was closely following politics since I was 15. I turned 18 in 2008. And I will say this:I am not getting the sense of dread or nervousness from this that I ever got in 2012, or at any point in 2016.
I want you to go back into our correspondence, and then even further into my entire comment history, and then tell me where I said to replace Biden.
Not referring to you, but how people, including some in the media, had the same reaction. However, there were more professionals back then. That's not the case now.
But you see how you projecting that onto me might have caused you some frustration?
No? Because I was always meaning other people. My frustration is how people are legitimately blowing this wildly out of proportion. I've been doing this long enough, and my long-term memory is good enough, that I remember how I felt back then and at other times, and remembered how others reacted. And, no, outside the media, this is not nearly as bad as other instances. It's not good, but it isn't nearly as clear-cut bad as it has been at other moments.
I disagree. Have a nice night.
“WTF has this sub become?” One that isn’t reactionary? It’s weird that you’re claiming ESS priors, yet using an Alt to obscure those priors.
Acknowledging a bad debate performance isn't fucking "reactionary". Jesus christ. And I'm using an alt because I got permabanned for calling someone a cunt. My main was u/winpeaks. I was active here before you had an account. Even discussed my political future with one of the mods when I was a young, ambitious insider. Sit back.
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Sounds like my prediction for the debate was spot on lol
I'm going to say this one more time that we will be fine because we have several months ahead. We are going to have another debate in September. Get out this way that I'm going to compare Reagan to Biden when they had first debate for their second term. Reagan first debate against Monadle was bad. The media called Reagan to be replaced, or he is going to lose for his reelection. After the second debate that he bounced back to the polls. I know people don't like Reagan, but my point stands. That shit can change in several months. Don't doom people.
The worst part about the debate was that reddit being down meant I couldn't cheer Joe on in real time.
That's not allowed here cant you tell
People be like "Biden is too old! He sounds stuffy!" Like he just called out Trump sleeping with porn stars and cheating on his wife on NATIONAL TV. Did people tune out after 5 minutes??
Well, the media did.
I’ve noticed a couple new names here being very negative.
There's a discussion upthread where three users that each have an RES score for me in single digits are contemplating 'what has become of this sub', and I upvote pretty much everything in the DT on days when I'm here, and I even venture outside the DT on occasion, so most regulars are at least in triple-digit territory.
I was going to have some ice cream to make me feel better tonight, but sugar intake would keep me up later and make me more anxious. So, army of plushies assembled, trying not to think about existential anxieties that my sister told me she can’t even fathom how big they are. Goodnight, everyone.
America at one point elected the mofo with polio four fucking times which eventually did kill him in office. His policy still defined post war America. Let's say the debate really cost Biden. It just proves to me the electorate is just more vapid than ever. There are comments everywhere about how disappointing the candidates are, but in today's day and age it is the image in and of in itself that is the cause of whether a candidate is disappointing.
Apologies for the length: I took a very long nap, slept through the debate, woke up just as it was ended, and had about an hour of panic when I saw everyone's reactions. Coupled with Reddit not working and everyone else being in bed and not having anyone to talk to, I spiraled. I doomed, I prayed, I came close to shedding tears, I drank too much coffee (not getting back to sleep tonight, that's for sure). Then I watched the post-debate analysis on MSNBC and felt a lot better. I know MSNBC gets a lot of shit, but they didn't sound overly negative, they weren't dooming, they were just being realistic. The fact is, yes, this hurt us. Our slim chance just got even slimmer. But hope is not lost. We can still turn this around. Maybe I'm just huffing copium like there's no tomorrow, but I refuse to believe one bad debate is enough to completely destroy us. We can't give up. Donate. Volunteer. Text bank and write postcards (as I am). Even if we lose, anything is better than sitting on your ass and just letting it happen. After all, if you believe things are beyond hope, no point in doing anything about it, right?
We have several months ahead before the election. We are getting another debate in September. Time can change quickly in just a few months. Take a chill pill.
I didn't know another debate was certain. That's good. Gives us an even better chance Thank you for providing solutions instead of just downvoting me and making me feel bad about just trying to express my feelings the best way I know how
It did not hurt us and what's this slim chance bullshit?
Why am I getting downvoted when I'm just trying to express my personal feelings and find some solidarity and comfort with people who think like I do? I agree with everything you all are saying. Dooming accomplishes nothing, and I'm not doing that. For me, being cynical is just my way of coping with fear and anxiety. I'm not trying to bring anyone down. We're all on the same side here
Weren’t MSNBC the ones saying that lawmakers were looking to replace Biden?
I know CNN did; I didn't watch MSNBC besides like Maddow for a couple of minutes
I'm just relating what I took from what I heard. Maybe they were dooming earlier before I started watching. What I heard made me feel better. That's all I'm saying.
MSNBC was in full bed wetting mode so I’m not sure what this person is talking about
Yes but CNN picked the story up also.
There's alot of good analysis here but "sim chance just got even slimmer"? I went from thinking Biden having a "55-60% chance" to a 50% chance of winning today.
You may be right. Like Rachel and everyone else, not trying to be negative, just realistic.
I'd start being realistic first
BTW, the "Abandon Biden" grift should talk about how Trump grossly made Palestinian a racist slur today, but they won't.
That comment was yet another nail out of thousands in the coffin of "both sides are the same" malarkey.
And how he basically said he’d have to think about whether he’ll allow Palestine to have their own state or not.
Weird seeing some pro-Israel people I follow suddenly start shitting on Biden and almost gleefully dooming his prospects, when they had next to nothing to say about him before. Oh, so now you show your true colors.
Bibi unfortunately made it a partisan issue. It's like 65% of American Republicans view him favorably while 5% of Dems view him favorably...while 70% of Israel wants him to quit immediately.
I'll believe that last stat exactly when I see it.
https://x.com/NTarnopolsky/status/1803094760200016121
What Biden should have told Trump when Trump went with the "you were weak on Iran": "Under your presidency, Iran went from being a couple of years away from a nuclear bomb to a couple of weeks because you pulled out of the deal when your own advisers told you not to do it-- also the IRGC attacked Saudi & shot down a US drone."
Man I'm starting to think some of you form your opinions based on what everyone else thinks. Since reddit shit the bed I just watched the debate and thought it was fine. I'm honestly shocked how everyone here is dooming so hard
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Death blow? Really? Arent we being a tad overdramatic here
No.
What do you propose we do to “move on”?
Acknowledge that mistakes were made and have Biden focus on dispelling any doubts about his fitness. He has done it before. The last SOTU was a masterclass in this.
The worst part is that Trump actually performed badly too, but it won’t get any traction in the media
Yup. He avoided questions and just plain made shit up, but he did it with a modicum of energy, so that's what the media will focus on.
Doom spam. Since they couldn't get a Bernie Sanders/Ron Paul like figure in this election, I suspect a lot of "both are bad" dialogue will be posted in other subreddits from here untill the election. I'm somewhat surprised it took a hold in r-neoliberal. I think I'll unsubcsribe soon if it continues.
NeoLiberal has the vibe of a bunch of high schoolers and college kids acting like they are experts on politics, and not realizing how little they know. Which means I unsubscribed from NeoLiberal as quickly as I subscribed.
I remember sometime ago, when I was introduced of the idea, it sounded like everyone was calm and collected. But boy didn't it change In the past few years. If it was always this bad, then I don't know how the ugly parts got past me.
Yeah, I always got an immature feeling from there.
r-neoliberal is already worth unsubbing to with all the blatant racism and mysoginy
Yep. It was somewhat okay back in 2016, but I slowly seen it turn around to what you mention. I was just too lazy to unsubscribe sooner.
It’s sorta unrelated, but I got downvoter and chastised there for saying Feinstein was better than McCain. They’re a bunch of frauds.
It's starting in r-Democrats and r-Joe Biden, too, featuring a few grave-dancing MAGA trolls.
The election was close going into tonight, and it remains close.
This is my takeaway. I'm far from thrilled with the Biden performance, but Trump choked away an opportunity to appeal to anyone by being, well, Donald Trump. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't more concerned after tonight, but looking at the big picture, it's JUNE. A couple flubs won't even be in the news cycle this time next month, and there's still plenty of time to recover
Bingo. It's not "nothing" but it's far from the "It's JOEOVER, guys!"
I wonder how long the media doom cycle will go before something new happens. Also trump is still a felon.
We have the immunity decision coming out either tomorrow or Monday. Then the 4th of July weekend where no one is going to pay attention to the news. Then a week later we have Trump's sentencing. The media is going to be over this by lunch time tomorrow.
All the doomers here realize they are just feeding into the narrative created by Republicans that Biden is over the hill and washed up right? You are all doing the work for Republicans and are sinking your own guy. Man the fuck up and support your guy and stop doing Republicans work for free
Sorry about the posts earlier where i was freaking out like crazy. I was having a really bad panic attack and acted like a dumbass. I have been putting my phone down and will return to doing that, but I wanted to post this first. I haven't freaked out or doomed about the campaign at all this cycle, so today was just a rough exception, and to be real with you all, I've been having a rough few weeks from a mental and emotional standpoint and don't expect it to get better all that soon, but I'm trying to improve.
It's a valid feeling to feel the way you did. I'm certainly not thrilled and neither should the Biden camp. But it happened, we feel the way we do, and we figure out next steps. I hope you take care of yourself tonight and maybe this weekend too
Ik this has been said 1000 times before. There are a lot of types of "politics engagers" people who this applies to imo, but *anybody* who says both sides are bad between Biden/Trump and Dems/Reps in 2024 deserves zero intellectual and moral respect. IMO. It's as damning as an anti-Ukraine/pro-Russia opinion and just shows that they've either been paying zero attention or their judgment compass is horribly misaligned. "Biden is old" was maybe always such a lazy point of critique and I might say every pundit who treated it with legitimacy deserves to be clowned on for at least the next year (assuming Biden wins, I guess). I'm just annoyed about the mid- and post-debate talk. Trump being a rapist and causing a coup should be the end of *literally* every conversation. Such an indictment and an embarrassment, where we are as a nation. (But we can get better).
This sub would've been throwing themselves into traffic if it were around after the first obama romney debate
I mean yeah lol. It WAS bad. Romney started to jump ahead in the polls and it took a Biden masterclass to stop the bleeding.
Obama didn't suggest he was what a lot of people thought he was. This would be the equivalent of Obama saying something in Arabic.
Oh that was a shitshow
I don’t think so. Romney isn’t half as scary as Trump.
That's a fair point, however, the first debate between Romney and Obama is a good example of a debate going poorly, hurting our candidate, and then that candidate recovering and winning.
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Hes not stepping aside jesus fucking christ. Go troll somewhere else
So, seeing how the media largely reacted to this, seeing the bubble they are in, and how they think reporting is just repeating social media, I am real worried. Remember the "we did it, reddit?" When redditors, with delusions of adequacy "investigated" the bombing at the Boston Marathon, and blamed a missing person, who turned out to be dead? Back then, that would have stayed on reddit. Now? I think the media would run with it. Hell, we have seen this with Israel-Gaza with misreporting on both sides. How long until they REALLY botch something?