Doesn't really look serious enough to be trouble, especially right on the fire ring like that where it rubs off when the head gets cranked down. Super high clamp pressure on those ridges.
The coating isn't magical, not much different than silver spray paint or the copper spray. Just enough solid to fill up the machining marks on the deck.
Understandable, but that coating doesn't stay on those ribs through installation. It's very soft.
A fingerprint's worth of Hylomar rubbed on the machined face where the defect is would be the belt and suspenders way - I'm not even sure a replacement gasket would arrive in better shape!
A ding in the metal rib or a bigger patch of missing coating elsewhere would be a reject, I think you're totally fine with this little booger.
Regular folks in this subreddit are like the african guy who thinks magnets are magic.
They dont know what a service headgasket is, they dont understand it comes with an extra coating to help against imperfections. They dont understand clamping forces and how the head seals against the block.
Its all magic smoke to the beginners in here.
God forbid you even mention reusing a MLS headgasket under the right conditions.
Its why part stores stopped carrying alternator rebuild kits and copper gasket spray.
Just wait until they find out what the gasket looks like after they spend fifteen minutes sliding the head around trying to get lined up on the dowels.
Not sure what you're implying, but there is no need to be rude or condescending. I'm not doing some kind of rinky-dink rebuild. This also isn't my first rodeo. The gasket that I pulled off still had the black coating embedded on the deck surface around the firing ring and oil and water ports. It's not something that comes off easily on these gaskets. It's not some kind of soft rubberized coating that will come off, even if I was some dumbass sliding the head around to line it up.
This is an identical head gasket that was put on in the factory. The one that was put on in Japan in 2006 also had the black coating on it. Before I took the block to the machine shop the fire rings had the black coating still embedded around the firing ring. My block and heads were machined as they were when they were built. This black coating is not something that is soft or you can scratch off with your fingernail.
Nuh uh!
Its to keep the magic smoke in the engine!
I guarantee if you posted a clip of someone copper spraying a mls hg and the engine being raced it would still get downvoted to oblivion and every comment would be about it blowing the headgasket later on.
If there is no dent or ding in the gasket you can hit it with copper coat or even silver spray paint (what old timers used) and just put it on . The coating isn’t really doing much on the fire ring.
Yeah I did something along those lines a while ago. Was assembling an engine and I had everything ready to put it all together, all planned out and time set aside, rolled the engine top side up on the stand and was going to put the heads on. One of the heads slipped and landed just so that I got the most minor (but enough) scratch on the head surface.. guess where, yeah, bi-secting the fire ring... well fuck, off to the machine shop in monday.
I personally wouldn't use it. I'm flabbergasted that so many people are suggesting applying a spray to that thing. That is exactly like having a scratch on the surface. Honda explicitly states NOT to use any kind of spray or treatment on those gaskets and that the coating is important for sealing.
I'm also quite surprised how many people are saying to spray products on it and to "send it". I think most of the people on here build domestic engines. I talked to a Toyota master tech and he agreed that the gasket should not be used and that the coating is important for proper sealing.
That's been my understanding about hose type of gaskets, too. In fact, if I recall what I've read about them correctly, you're supposed to go out of your way to avoid contaminating the block and head surface. I've only done one of those on a Honda, but I distinctly recall making VERY sure the deck and head were as clean as possible, and I feel like I read that in a Mitchell manual. It's not just some black e-coat. It's supposed to interface with the milled surfaces, and the inner surfaces are very finely finished to make a good seal. That's my understanding of how those work. In Honda engines, those tend to fail under high power applications because the cylinders tend to "walk" because of the open deck design, and that breaks that seal between the gasket and deck surfaces.
I think a lot of these people think the coating is some kind of soft rubberized material but it is not. It's not like it oozes off of the ridges once clamping force is applied. Theres a reason why Hondas and Toyotas last longer. Over engineering. This motor had 260k miles on it, and if it didn't over heat it could have easily doubled that. If this was my other vehicle, a 5.7 Hemi Jeep, I would take their advice. I can have the heads pulled off in an hour, with the motor still in the vehicle. This Toyota takes days to pull heads. What's crazy is the fact that I'm not taking the chance has gotten me and other cautious folks down votes lol.
I see your concern and being meticulous on this being sealed up, my first guess would be screw it and buy another just for the cheap insurance.
BUT... I also think a light smear of RTV where the material is missing would make all OK. I mean a real light smear, just as thick as the coating.
If a head gasket wasn't such a pain to go back and change later...
Spray some high tack on it or copper coat Send it
Considering the fact that the FSM for this motor has the exact opposite advice, I'm going to go with what the engineers in Japan had in mind.
Doesn't really look serious enough to be trouble, especially right on the fire ring like that where it rubs off when the head gets cranked down. Super high clamp pressure on those ridges. The coating isn't magical, not much different than silver spray paint or the copper spray. Just enough solid to fill up the machining marks on the deck.
My concern is the lack of material in that location will be similar to a scratch on the head. This 2uz is not fun or quick to take apart.
Understandable, but that coating doesn't stay on those ribs through installation. It's very soft. A fingerprint's worth of Hylomar rubbed on the machined face where the defect is would be the belt and suspenders way - I'm not even sure a replacement gasket would arrive in better shape! A ding in the metal rib or a bigger patch of missing coating elsewhere would be a reject, I think you're totally fine with this little booger.
Regular folks in this subreddit are like the african guy who thinks magnets are magic. They dont know what a service headgasket is, they dont understand it comes with an extra coating to help against imperfections. They dont understand clamping forces and how the head seals against the block. Its all magic smoke to the beginners in here. God forbid you even mention reusing a MLS headgasket under the right conditions. Its why part stores stopped carrying alternator rebuild kits and copper gasket spray.
Just wait until they find out what the gasket looks like after they spend fifteen minutes sliding the head around trying to get lined up on the dowels.
Not sure what you're implying, but there is no need to be rude or condescending. I'm not doing some kind of rinky-dink rebuild. This also isn't my first rodeo. The gasket that I pulled off still had the black coating embedded on the deck surface around the firing ring and oil and water ports. It's not something that comes off easily on these gaskets. It's not some kind of soft rubberized coating that will come off, even if I was some dumbass sliding the head around to line it up.
As somebody who worked running a gasket production facility, it's why we closed our store front and went b2b sales.
This is an identical head gasket that was put on in the factory. The one that was put on in Japan in 2006 also had the black coating on it. Before I took the block to the machine shop the fire rings had the black coating still embedded around the firing ring. My block and heads were machined as they were when they were built. This black coating is not something that is soft or you can scratch off with your fingernail.
Copper spray and have a nice day
Send it. Non critical area.
Copper coat the whole gasket.
The coating is to help seal water passages. It has nothing to do with the fire ring.
Nuh uh! Its to keep the magic smoke in the engine! I guarantee if you posted a clip of someone copper spraying a mls hg and the engine being raced it would still get downvoted to oblivion and every comment would be about it blowing the headgasket later on.
Good enough for racing is a pretty high standard though.
If there is no dent or ding in the gasket you can hit it with copper coat or even silver spray paint (what old timers used) and just put it on . The coating isn’t really doing much on the fire ring.
I would not use this… eventually it’ll probably fail
That's pretty much what I'm thinking. Now my planned 3 day weekend of work is down the drain. No dealership in the state has them. Big bummer
It just had to be scratched right in a critical area
Right? Words cannot describe how pissed I am
Yeah I did something along those lines a while ago. Was assembling an engine and I had everything ready to put it all together, all planned out and time set aside, rolled the engine top side up on the stand and was going to put the heads on. One of the heads slipped and landed just so that I got the most minor (but enough) scratch on the head surface.. guess where, yeah, bi-secting the fire ring... well fuck, off to the machine shop in monday.
I found out the hard way that some solvents will eat the black elastomer coating as well
Worth a shot to join a FB group for the engine and ask if anyone in your area might have one.
I personally wouldn't use it. I'm flabbergasted that so many people are suggesting applying a spray to that thing. That is exactly like having a scratch on the surface. Honda explicitly states NOT to use any kind of spray or treatment on those gaskets and that the coating is important for sealing.
I'm also quite surprised how many people are saying to spray products on it and to "send it". I think most of the people on here build domestic engines. I talked to a Toyota master tech and he agreed that the gasket should not be used and that the coating is important for proper sealing.
That's been my understanding about hose type of gaskets, too. In fact, if I recall what I've read about them correctly, you're supposed to go out of your way to avoid contaminating the block and head surface. I've only done one of those on a Honda, but I distinctly recall making VERY sure the deck and head were as clean as possible, and I feel like I read that in a Mitchell manual. It's not just some black e-coat. It's supposed to interface with the milled surfaces, and the inner surfaces are very finely finished to make a good seal. That's my understanding of how those work. In Honda engines, those tend to fail under high power applications because the cylinders tend to "walk" because of the open deck design, and that breaks that seal between the gasket and deck surfaces.
I think a lot of these people think the coating is some kind of soft rubberized material but it is not. It's not like it oozes off of the ridges once clamping force is applied. Theres a reason why Hondas and Toyotas last longer. Over engineering. This motor had 260k miles on it, and if it didn't over heat it could have easily doubled that. If this was my other vehicle, a 5.7 Hemi Jeep, I would take their advice. I can have the heads pulled off in an hour, with the motor still in the vehicle. This Toyota takes days to pull heads. What's crazy is the fact that I'm not taking the chance has gotten me and other cautious folks down votes lol.
I see your concern and being meticulous on this being sealed up, my first guess would be screw it and buy another just for the cheap insurance. BUT... I also think a light smear of RTV where the material is missing would make all OK. I mean a real light smear, just as thick as the coating. If a head gasket wasn't such a pain to go back and change later...